Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Michael Mongiardi: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1723

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

In this 1723rd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Michael Mongiardi about the state of podcasting in Canada. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, the Waterfront BIA, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Welcome to episode 1723 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta! Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Toronto's waterfront BIA.

More than water! Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Get your butts to Christie Pitts this summer for the best baseball in the city outside the dome. RecycleMyElectronics.ca Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Building Toronto's Skyline A podcast and book from Nick Ienies

Sponsored by Fusion Corp Construction Management Inc. and Redley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto mic debut, is Michael Mongeardy! Hey, you pronounced it right. Because I pretended I was Chef Boyardee, and that's what I did there. That's the trick. You got a nice Irish name there, Mongeardy.

Thank you, yeah, strong strong Irish name good to see you Hey, a quick thing here. I forgot to open this is very unprofessional and I'm a podcast guy You know this I didn't open the beer before we started so do you mind if I just crack well? I didn't want you to open the beer before you started because I want to hear it on the mic So yeah, just hold it up to the mic Great Lakes Brewery. I will say that right in front though. All right in front right in front Okay, there's the sound I like is the sound that yeah, that's a fresh can of the premium lager from Great Lakes Brewery Yeah, Great Lakes Brewery. Honestly, I know they're a sponsor. So this is gonna sound Like it's like I'm being a show, but I'm honestly a fan of Great Lakes Brewery always have been so

Do you think people will think you're just saying that? Like because you're on Toronto Miked and this is the, you know, the home of Great Lakes Beer. I know you're a fan. I have met you at the brewery, which is like 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard. And I saw you, I'm excited to chat with you about this off the top, but I saw you at TMLX 19 just last Thursday night. That's one week ago today. We were together at Great Lakes Brewery for the 19th Toronto

Mike listener experience. What did you think? I thought it was great. I mean, you know, as a casual listener of your show, but I'm also in your kind of community group with, by the way, if you're only casual, I mean, I, I, I have a lot of podcasts in my life and I only have time for so much. But yeah, so I'm in your community as well on the secret community. The FOTM WhatsApp group.

FOTM WhatsApp group. And it's like, it's very clear this community that you've built is like really just really cool people. Like I went in there, I didn't know anyone. I was anyone I was alone right I knew Al Grego I've met him before I always only one I love running into Al at every podcast event he's like just a true bench of a man but I didn't know anyone else literally all strangers and I want wandered in there and like immediately it was like, I felt like it was just like this community vibe. Uh, felt like welcome, you know, I'm, I'm the first person I met was that, um,

Toronto historian that you have on off Jeremy Hopkins, Jeremy Hopkins, uh, who was fascinating. We like chatted about old buildings and like cool stuff in Toronto immediately just like right out of the gates. I was like, so anyway, I just think, uh, to be a little bit of a shill for you trying to like I think you have built a really cool community of of people it's like supportive and positive and like it just seems like it was like a very like family picnic vibes you know like everyone just out having fun that's how it feels you know this is like a family

picnic and snow was there it's like if snow came to your family picnic, right? Like it's like, oh, we're having a good time. Here's some good FOTMs. I've seen at other events and, uh, fellow listeners of Toronto Mike. And there is the guy who sang and wrote Informer the Informer himself. Yeah. I was too shy to ask him. Well, I would have introduced you. I would have, I would have brokered that deal. No, maybe he would have been more than happy next time because he would have been more than happy to take a photo with Michael Bonjardy. Yeah. Yeah. I can be an informer. Well that's gonna get you beat up. Like they don't be an

infomer. I think if you listen to those lyrics and they're difficult to parse, there's some patois going on there etc. But the idea is he's gonna beat your ass if you're an informer. Because Snow is not an informer. You know what I mean? He can hold the water. So that's what the song is about. Yeah, I think he's about going somebody ratted him out on something and he's gonna beat their ass in jail, maybe? I don't know. I could have that wrong. I'm gonna ask Snow when he returns in September. But let me just say, Michael, it's great having you as a member of the community. Quickly, we're gonna tell our origin story. Like how did we come to meet? Do you remember reaching out and saying, hey, let's grab a coffee?

Yeah, I've been aware of you for a long time, just in the, I mean, I'm in the podcast world and you're in the podcast world obviously, and we're both in Toronto. So Toronto podcast zeitgeist? Yeah. So I was like, I've always been aware of your existence, but honestly, and I was telling this to Al at the thing is like, I don't know how I didn't, I haven't been like listening before recently. Like I hadn't really heard of it. Like this is exactly my people. This is like the radio I listened to, the music I listened to when I was like in my formative years, like this is your community. And it's like, this is a perfect fit for me.

I just didn't know about it. And if I did, I would've. That's it, right? There's so much noise. You alluded to it earlier where you're like, you got a lot of podcasts to listen to and stuff. And we're gonna talk about what you're doing at the Sonar Network and how you're involved with podcasting.

But there's so much noise to cut through. There are people like you who are like dialed into the podcasting world of Toronto, who've yet to discover what's been happening here since 2012. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how that happened. I mean, the same thing with how it happened, Michael. Hummel and Fred, who you know, and I listen to them all the time on the radio in the nineties. And then apparently they've been doing a podcast for 13 years or something. I had no idea.

They started before me. So 2011, I think October 2011, they started the current iteration of their podcast. And I was there, Michael. Okay, so lots of stuff to talk about, but the fact is you kind of reached out to have a coffee with me and we met for coffee. And then like meanwhile, I had no idea that you were on Zooms with Humble and Fred.

Do I have this story right? So I don't even realize you have a Humble and Fred connection, but you're on Zooms with Humble and Fred. Do I have this story right? So I don't even realize you have a Humble and Fred connection, but you're on Zooms with Humble and Fred because Humble and Fred are talking about moving their podcast to the Sonar Network for January, 2025. So this most recent January. Which is an independent podcast collective that I run, yeah. That you run, like you founded the Sonar Network.

Yeah, me and another guy, I guess you could say I co-founded. That you run, like you founded the Sonar Network. Yeah. Me and another guy, I guess you could say I co-founded. Did you kill that guy? He has passed away. He was gored to death by a rhino at the zoo. So may he rest in peace. No, I got to Google that. No, he just, he just backed away from the business, but he's still a podcaster. He's still on the network. We're still great friends. He's just not running the business anymore. Okay. Cause sometimes these partnerships, uh, there's some, you know, bad fallout, but you, it sounds like he just went to the zoo and got killed and we miss them. Shout out to Ridley funeral home. Ridley funeral home. Michael have sent over a measuring tape for

you. So I can measure all my corpses before I send them to Ridley. Before you bury them in that backyard of yours. Who knows what's going on there? My goodness. Okay. So I'm on again, uh, just trying to set this humble and Fred table and then we're gonna dive into who you are, who the Sonar Network is, and then I wanna have a chat about, you know, the state of Canadian podcasting and Toronto podcasting.

We're gonna have a great chat here. We're gonna do it in an hour because I gotta pick up my kids at camp. So, I'm gonna talk twice as fast as normally, which means you don't need to do twice the speed for this episode, just listen at one time speed. But I'm meeting you for a coffee. We're hitting it off. We have a lot in common. We're similar vintage. We're both in the podcast world. We're both producing podcasts. Of course we have a lot in common. We have a great time because we're

both sweethearts. And then I find out you're having zoom meetings with Humble and Fred, but you actually don't know I'm associated with Humble and Fred because Humble and Fred just refer to their unnamed producer on these Zooms, right? Yeah. I mean, I didn't know. I knew they had a producer. I guess I might have even known his name was Mike, but that's a very, very obscure, uncommon name. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We both share. Yeah. It was truly just a coincidence that just a coincidence that I met you around the same time as kind of starting to talk to them. Which is wild.

And you're talking to them and I think you were like referred to them because of, I'm guessing it was FOTM Amanda Capito. Yeah, Amanda. So like, if you're like, all, I always joke on this show, all the pieces fit together. They all matter and everything. But like, so Amanda Capito is on this show talking about her book on podcasting. Then she reaches out to humble and Fred and I guess Howard and Amanda have a private zoom and then out of that private zoom, Amanda introduces them to you at the sonar network. And this is all like, I'm not, I'm actually not invited

to any of these zooms, but that's okay. I'm not I'm not bitter about that at all like so behind the scenes the the fallout of all this is that humble and Fred leave the server that They would co-locate from Ian service and they might drop on the show all the time I still work with Ian hello to Ian but humble and Fred leave that for a cast and Become part of the sonar network and that starts like January 6 2025 or something like that like January 6th, 2025 or something like that. Yeah, January 6th, the great insurrection of the Sonar Network. Well, that's how Ian refers to it, just kidding.

No, I mean, yeah, Ian, I think he's doing great work and he's kind of supporting this community. I think that's cool. I hope that he's not mad. I was going to introduce you at TMLX 19. Oh, was he there? Yeah, I would love to talk to him. He was going to introduce you at TMX 19. Was he there? Yeah, I would love. He was supposed to be there. Okay. An IT emergency arose and he couldn't make the trek from Guelph,

but I had a whole plan to finally introduce you to Ian service. But regardless, uh, humble and Fred, if you subscribe to their show today, it'll say the sonar network. And that is you. That's well, it's not just me, but yeah, it's a, it'll say, the Sonar Network, and that is you. That's, well, it's not just me, but yeah, it's, it's at some point it comes up to me, yeah. That's like, okay, so you know who died? Another Michael died, Michael Madsen. Madsen.

Michael Madsen died? Yeah. Oh no. I know, and terrible. But just recently somebody asked me on this very program, do you know Steven Wright, they said, and I said, I am a huge Reservoir Dogs fan. I love that movie so much, seen it so many times.

And Stephen Wright is the voice of that KB-LL Super Sounds of the 70s or whatever. And then I learned Mads and died. And then I went back and I watched the Stuck in the Middle with You by Steelers Wheelers. I watched that scene. So I was just now thinking of a joke, a famous Stephen Wright joke, which is some no, it was a Stephen Wright who had the joke. It might not be Stephen Wright who had the joke

where I used to be this. I still am, but I used to be to headberg, Mitch Hedberg. He was like, used to be, I used to be addicted to drugs or something like that. I still am, but I used to be. Yeah. I apologize to the late great Mitch Hedberg. He was like, I used to be addicted to drugs or something like that. I still am, but I used to be too. I apologize to the late great Mitch Hedberg. That was his joke, not Steve. They have similar kind of one-liner delivery styles, but Hedberg, okay. Cause then I was gonna say, you're the Sonar Network.

You're not only the Sonar Network, but you are the Sonar Network as well. So do you wanna name check before we dive into who you are in the Sonar Network and talk podcasting? Do you wanna name check who else is at the Sonar Network as well. So do you want to name check before we dive into who you are in the Sonar Network and talk podcasting? Do you want to name check who else is at the Sonar Network working with you? Behind the scenes? Yeah. Mariana Mineotis would be my main business partner and also my current sexual partner because we're engaged. That's allowed at the Sonar Network. Yeah, that's allowed. We're in love, but we also run this company together. But that's as far as the day-to-day business operations. It's mostly us two. And then there's a slew

of other people, tech, IT people, social media, and then of course all the hosts of all the shows and the producers. So the family is quite large, but at the top running the day-to-day business, it's mostly us. And you're madly in love. Is that true? Yeah You're sexually active you were you're involved with each other on an intimate. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I sent you the videos Well, let's watch it together everybody in the Toronto Mike YouTube channel Okay, so now we know the two main the heads of this so so in our network beef by the way Do you know this is the first Thursday of the quarter?

It is it just telling you it is okay. So your fiscal quarter of the calendar quarter calendar quarter Okay every so but that means this is the slot that is occupied by Ed Keenan of the Toronto Star He's always a 2 p.m. Guest the first Thursday of the quarter We've had this like locked and loaded forever, but he wrote me the other day and said, Mike, I'm out of town, can we do this the next week? And we moved it one week. So Ed Keenan will be on Toronto Mike for his quarterly visit next week.

But that opened up this Thursday afternoon and you slid right in there, buddy. That's what you're doing here. Oh, I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to fill in Ed's shoes. Well, those are big shoes. And then we then we go and I go two and a half hours or something and we got one hour For this but yeah your bio I'm gonna read it to you and you can explain this first part particularly It says Michael Mongeardi is a comedian

Podcaster and co-founder of the sonar network. Can you explain the comedian part? Tell us what makes you a comedian. Yeah, I guess it's an old bio, but I mean, I was very active in the comedy scene here in Toronto, kind of up to the pandemic and the network really was formed originally as like a comedy network of comedy podcasts. It's grown kind of, it still is comedy centric for sure, but it's kind of grown a little bit since then but But yeah, that's the comedian bar. I mean, this is an old bio. I generally don't put comedian in anymore Yeah, so be a bit more specific like would you show up at the comedy bar or something or do a set at yuk yaks? What do you mean comedian? I I was doing improv and sketch mostly and I was Uh, yeah, I was doing a lot of improv. I was doing shows

Almost every day I was doing uh, I was I was teaching and coaching improv teams. I was doing a lot of improv. I was doing shows almost every day. I was doing, I was teaching and coaching improv teams. I was active. I was very active when I was like starting this network at that time. Okay. So at some point in this hour, there'll be evidence of your pure hilarity. Your sense of humor. I hope so.

It's all gone now. Okay. So you're a comedian or at least you were and you're a podcast. What came first? The sonar network or being a podcaster, podcast or? Yeah, yeah. I had a show, an improv show that I had started with my some improv friends and we ran it for like 10 years from like 2012. You know, till I mean, that's recent. Twenty twenty four. If you did it ten years from 2012, that means oh, twenty

twenty two. oh, 2022. OK, yeah. So a few years ago, you this thing rest in peace. Shadow to Ridley funeral home. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, we need to set up an appointment with Ridley. But yeah, it's it never officially had its last episode. It kind of just fizzled out. And as my time became like got more busy with like running the network and stuff,

I had less time. And then also like one of the co-hosts is like became a famous actor. So who, uh, I mean I wouldn't say famous, but I mean, I'll be the judge of that. His name is Chargera. He's a very funny. He was on second city main stage for a long time. And now he's all over Canadian TV. You've seen him for sure. Yeah. I got to see a photo. Yeah. He's a, he's also a great guy. But, but yeah, so he got really busy, especially with second city at the time I was busy running the network and it just, the show kind of fizzled.

Was that the goal for you prior to, you know, founding the Sonar network or whatever, however it evolved, was the goal for you to find yourself on like a Kim's convenience or something as a, the, the guy who visited the convenience store or something like that? I guess I never. What does a Canadian actor aspire to do? Yeah, I mean, I guess I was never really trying to be an actor.

I did a few auditions and I was like, this is not for me. I did a few auditions for commercials. I remember doing a McDonald's audition and being like, this game is just like, this is not for me. And then Jason Agnew got the gig anyway. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't have jackets like that. Only there's a period of time where Agnew was on every other ad I think he'd had a big Tim Hortons one he had a McDonald's he was just going gangbusters with the ads. You gotta make

Hay Wallace sign us out. Yeah. Yeah okay now the Sonar the Sonar Network in a nutshell, before we get into it, we're still going to know you. What exactly does the Sonar Network do? Yeah. So it's like, you know, when we started the network, it was like, it was literally I was just a podcaster who had some friends and then the local podcast community, like in Toronto, and we were just like seeing other cool networks, like cool communities pop up in other cities in the world at that time, like, you know, mid 2010s. And we were like, we kept being like, Oh, someone should do this, someone should do this in Toronto, and then we can, we could join it and we can be part of the

community anyways. And it was just like, saying that enough, and then no one actually started to do it. And then we were just like, I guess with no knowledge on how to run an entertainment business, maybe we should do it. So we just started blind, having no idea what we were doing. And I still have no idea what I'm doing eight years later. But at least I have a, I think I have a better idea now as I'm learning trial by fire as I go. Well, one smart move, I think, is that you decided not to be

the tech people, right? So you're not, so we're, like we talked about Ian's service earlier, right? So there's a technical aspect to what Ian's gotta do, but you guys are just, you're using A-cast servers, typically, am I right? Yeah, I mean, yes. So that means A-cast, they're looking out for their

servers, so they're giving you a shadow to the tragically hip They're giving you a place to happen and then you guys can worry about the the content and the creative Yeah, and I would say and now in the the landscape as it is now No one really does their own hosting anymore It's kind of going away and because because the a cast you know obviously you pay them but they do have a lot of extra services and features that they offer that if you were hosting it you're on your own because we did I was a hosting and writing XML feeds in notepad at one point to in my life but nobody's doing that anymore not really except you I kind of I want to be the

last person standing, writing their own XML. Yeah. You know, there's another guy who I need to introduce you to named Scarborough dude, who's, who's been, he's a podcaster, you know, very focused on Scarborough. And he is like an interesting guy. He's like 70 plus years old and just, he just closed the show down after a thousand episodes. So you you're way past him But yeah, okay, and he's in his 70s. Okay, just a kid just a kid Yeah, every time you say Scarborough, I want to say a birch mound stadium home of the Robbie. Yeah Oh, yeah, dude. Okay. What neck of the woods did you grow up in? I grew up in the great city the home Let's see if you can see if you can get this game

let's go the home of it where the great Ryan Gosling went to high school and the, where the great band Finger Eleven aka. Oh that's Burlington. Rainbow Buttmonkeys. That's, well that was easy clue. I'm trying to think of where Ryan Gosling went to high school, but once you say Rainbow Buttmonkeys, I know you're in Burlington, home of the spoons. That's right, the spoons. I actually talked to him. And Silverstein. And Silverstein, yeah. Yeah, and I talked to...

Rob Pruess. Yes, Burlington Rob, right? Burlington Rob. Yeah, I talked to him at the party too. Again, another very welcoming, very fun, cool guy. So shout out to the community. Well, Rob comes over every month, so he'll be back for Toast. We're looking at, tentatively looking at July 11th, if you're a a toast head who needs to document that but it all depends when if Mrs. Bob will let Bob will let come out to play on a Friday

night so that's literally what we're waiting on right now but you'd think the problem would be the guy who lives in New York. Please let Bob come out to play. Actually I suggested that Rob Pruse talk to Mrs. Bob because no one says no to Rob. He's the, he's a sweetheart. He's just the nicest guy. So that's the goal there. Okay. So the sonar is up and going, did you, other than humble and Fred, did you want to name check a show or two or three that's on your network that you're proud of? I mean, yeah, I'm kind of proud of everyone because we, it's very curated. We like, we don't just let anyone in.

We've turned down definitely like real opportunity to make money because it just wasn't a good fit. And it's like, you know, but anyways, so, but some I will jump out as like fan favorites. One of them is Evil Men. Do you know Evil Men? No. It's Chris Locke, James Hartnett, Mike Mike Blasso I know the name James Hartnett because my old

Twitter days I followed him you know he was a good follow on Twitter yeah he's a great guy all three of them are great guys they're three very well-known kind of local comedians Toronto comedians they're great and yeah he should have a show called evil men evil men okay yeah so I'll name check that but uh but yeah I could honestly I like all But yeah, I could, honestly, I like all of our shows. So I could. Okay, there are two shows later in this chat. There are two shows, like upcoming shows, I'm going to ask you for some more info on. Sure. That are part of the Sonar Network. I think I know what they are.

You can probably guess. Okay, so where I want to go next? Well, actually, I'm going to thank a couple of partners and then I'm going to get into it with you. There was a conversation that happened at TMLX 19 about the Humble and Fred show and that's a good gateway into talking about what's different with Humble and Fred on the ACAST servers on the Sonar network versus the previous 10 years. Okay there's a significant difference that you can hear and we're gonna get into that but there's a new sponsor of Toronto Mic'd so new sponsor alert new sponsor alert new sponsor alert you need like a siren I probably have one in the soundboard here but that's

cheesy okay that's cheesy the waterfront BIA so you heard me say in the intro more than just water there's a whole whack of great summer events happening at the waterfront and I'm a you know, I bike everywhere and I'm on the Martin Goodman trail and I'm biking to the waterfront all the time. Great Lakes has the GLB Brew Pub down there at Jarvis and Queens Quay, that's there. But I'm going to highlight an event that's happening July 4th to the 6th. So that's tomorrow running this weekend. It's called to the sixth. So that's tomorrow running this weekend. It's called the Fun Philippines Toronto Food and Music Festival. Rolls off the tongue. The Fun Philippines Toronto Food and Music Festival. This is where you can

experience the vibrant heart of the Philippines by the waterfront. Enjoy live performances by Filipino artists feast on feast on authentic Filipino foods and discover Artisanal and indigenous made craft exhibits. This is a perfect opportunity to explore new flavors and embrace Traditions now, you know what you got to do this weekend Michael. I Mean if the weather is hot there's a have you ever had the Filipino dish? Hello. Hello. Do you know that can I tell you something? My wife is a Filipino descent. I know. Hollow. Okay, great. Yeah. I have a bunch of Filipino friends and they introduced me to it and uh,

it's so good and it's perfect for a hot day. Well, you know where you're going? The waterfront for this fantastic food and music festival. You're drinking your great lakes. How is it? We already established. You're a fan. half done. It's amazing Do you like palma pasta? Did you get any at TMLX? I went home like so full. I had lasagna head pasta had meatballs And I was like I went back out for a little bit more and I was like I shouldn't I didn't need seconds But it was just I told you I make sure we order a lot of food

So people come hungry and they eat till they're basically they're going to pass out. And that's the whole vibe, right? Just come enjoy delicious Italian food from Palma Pasta. Have your beer, chat amongst some sweethearts. So thank you to Palma Pasta for feeding everybody at TMLX19. We love the people at Palma Pasta. I do have in my freezer, Michael, a large meat lasagna, a beef lasagna from Palma Pasta. Would you like to take that home with you?

Sure. Are you going to give me a pizza lasagna? Lasagna. Yeah. Thank you. You didn't know. See, this tells me how much you listen. Every guest gets a lasagna.

You know, I didn't know that. I did know that, but I was kind of like, he's not going to give me one. Why do I deserve one? Well, you're a guest, aren't you? I am. No money is changing hands in this transaction. Is there? Maybe we should talk about that? Okay Have you been a Christie Pitts for a Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game?

I have not I bet I heard that you are throwing the opening pitch. I did that I threw a strike My daughter took some great video footage of that Snow is the official ambassador of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball and this book here for you Michael is the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball They play at Christie Pitts awesome Experience its high quality high caliber baseball You grab yourself a lager you get a hot dog you sit on the hill and you just soak it all in this is a truly Fantastic Toronto experience and that ticket costs you

nothing Got it, and it's just a great excuse to get out and do something Toronto experience and that ticket costs you nothing. Got it? And it's just a great excuse to get out and do something. Christian Bluer, come on, get to Christie Pitts this summer and catch some Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. Okay, at tmlx19, a couple of guys whose names I can't remember, it's killing me. Yeah, I exchanged information with them

and then I put my notes through the washing machine and so I was never able to follow up with them. But if you're out there, hit me up, let's chat. Yeah, apparently they listen to Toronto Mike. So if you guys, you know who I'm talking about. One of you had glasses, you looked like you could have been Arash Madani's brother.

That's how I described this guy. One guy reminded me of Arash Madani a bit, the way he had the black rimmed glasses and his sidekick. Okay, who's Arash Madani's sidekick? But you two gentlemen, send me an email, Mike at Toronto Mike dot com and just say, hey, we were the two guys. So I witnessed those two guys talking to you, Michael, and I'm going to paraphrase and then you're going to tell us exactly how it went down. But I've sensed they were basically saying you, Michael Mongeardi, have you have

ruined the Humble and Fred show. basically saying, you Michael Mangiardi have, you have ruined the Humble and Fred show. They were complaining about the pre-rolls, the auto-inserted ads that you hear when you listen to Humble and Fred. And that's the big change I teased earlier. So moving to a cast means now there's like a pre-roll, there's a couple in the middle of the show, and then there's one like a post-roll at the end. couple in the middle of the show, and then there's one like a post-roll at the end. You get a couple ads or whatever. So tell me what this conversation was about, and then we're going to get into this. I mean, they just don't like dynamic ads, which is like, it's fine. I mean, I started in the podcast world in like 2009. So, you know, I'd seen it come from like, just like there weren't even any ads to like, you know, to what it is now,

which is like overrun by ads. So it's like, obviously there's a happy medium. They don't like dynamic ads. Fine. The fact is, the fact is in my perspective on it is like, that's how creators are getting paid now, especially smaller creators. And so it's like, if you like these people and you want to support them and you want them to keep the show free, then it has to be ads. Otherwise, then you can pay them. There's, there's usually ad free avenues,

Patreon or subscription things, uh, that a lot of podcasters have for support or whatever, but If you want the show to be free, then you just kind of fast-forward You're saying this is the price you pay like the reason that you get ads during ER when you're watching on Thursday night I just took a 90s reference for you. Okay, but like that's the price of this content It's it's it's like it's not it's not necessarily the price, right? It's like's it's like it's not it's not necessarily the price right it's like it some people Podcast for fun, and they have a job on the side or whatever and they just podcast for their friends or whatever And they're not really trying to make a big thing about it. They're not trying to monetize and that's fine

That's okay And that's a podcast and that's totally legit and fine And I have some friends that a lot of friends that do that and that's great but other people like want to be a creator and They have fans that like them and support them. And so the only the price that you have to pay as a fan is literally nothing except you have to fast forward through some ads sometimes. And so this is how creators get paid. And this is this is like, I think I was definitely getting heated in this conversation. But it's just a long time

because I left it and then it was still happening when it came back. It's just such an entitled perspective for me to for fans to be like I love your show I love what you do But I want you to do it the way I want you to do it and I don't want you to get paid as much As you could and it's like well, you know If you really like them then you would just like suffer through some ads like TV has ads like you said er Whatever, but it's part of the problem with regard specifically with regards the humble and Fred is that they did a decade of them, then you would just like suffer through some ads like TV has ads, like you said, ER, whatever. But it's part of the problem with regard specifically with regards to humble and Fred is that they

did a decade of content where there were no dynamically inserted ads. And then all of a sudden in January, 2025, there are like four different spots where the ads are done. So is it just that they got used to it being one way for a decade and then it changed? So people don't like change. Yeah, this is the thing. And it's like, if you give if you give something to someone, then they will appreciate it. But when you take something away, then they get mad.

So I we all knew that it was like, they're going to be some backlash. It's like, and I think they did kind of, you know, get the the listeners, you know, informed, let them know it's coming and that kind of thing. But, you know, I asked Fred about it last time I met and he said there really hasn't been that much. Like these two guys who were having the heated conversation with you did not. They did not send a note or something to humble and Fred and complain like so humble and Fred, unless they listen to this episode will be oblivious to the fact that there's these two guys who were at TMLX 19 who quote unquote said, who told

me the dynamically inserted ads have ruined Humble and Fred. Okay. So they did not like let the guys know about it. And their opinion was also misinformed in a lot of way. But I don't know if I, if I was able to articulate it properly because I was shouting at them but I will say that that at the end of that conversation as I was walking away the guy the guy we shook hands everything was fine even though it got a little heated didn't come to fisticuffs no and did not a tmly axe but as I was leaving

he was like it's hey I'm a mando Capito's cousin that's what the guy said oh my god that's a clue as to who to find out his identity. Guess what? Amanda Capito is one of my closest friends. So I messaged her on the way home and I was like, oh, I think I just got an argument with your cousin. And she was like, who is he? What is it?

And I was like, described him. And she was like, I don't have any cousin or second cousin that looks like that. So that's why I'm asking you what this guy's name. I don't remember his name. This guy's just like making up that he's my friend's cousin. But that's such a rando thing to tie himself to Amanda Capito. Maybe I misunderstood what he said or something.

I don't know. I mean, that's a name that doesn't sound like another name. And that's a fascinating little tidbit. I had no idea about that. One thing, and again, I totally think these guys deserve to get paid with some dynamically inserted which is a CPM deal, right? So they get paid X dollars per thousand downloads, essentially. Yeah. Okay. But what they do and I think these guys were okay when the ads were baked in. So if humble and Fred, they'll start talking about Kelsey's or something or Bodog or a

retirement guy who will help you with your investments for retirement, for example, right? And they would do the live reads during the show. And these guys seem fine with that. Their issue seems to be the pre-rolls. These are like literally pre-recorded ads that are just dropped in, just like you're watching ER on a Thursday night on NBC. Or the mid-rolls, yeah.

Or yeah. I say pre-rolls. I'm using the term wrong. What is the overall umbrella term for these things? Just rolls? Yeah, dynamic ad insertion. And then pre is the ones before the show, post is at the end, and mid's in the middle, yeah. Okay, so I do know that, and then I forgot I knew that.

Okay, so I feel like they felt, they were suggesting that Humble and Fred were like double-dipping, because they were still doing the the the the live reads. But didn't they do that? Didn't they do sorry to interrupt. Didn't they do that on radio, too? I'm sure they did. Right. They did host read ads and I'm sure I don't like I'd listen to them a lot in the 90s on CFO. Why?

And it would be like this sports brought to you by and they would do something like that. Yeah, like brought to you by whatever, LeBats. And then I feel like there was a lot of like ad tags but most of the ads I think on Terrestrial Radio were pre-recorded you know inserts like just just pre-recorded ads but there was yeah they would anything that wasn't nailed down would get sponsored or whatever like oh it's Freddie P the sports shorts the sport comment brought to you by Labatt's blue or whatever But yeah, but you know, so just interesting to, to witness that. But you say this is the future of podcasting, right?

This is how podcast creators are going to get paid. It's the present really it's happening and there's, there's, there's not a lot of like this sentiment of like ads are bad and inserted ads are bad is like, is almost like going away. I'm like, I'm surprised I don't encounter these these kind of arguments as much as I used to because people are going the way of the manually edited xml file. Yeah yeah exactly. Okay I'm gonna be the last man on both okay. Take a note though I'm gonna be the last man on both. Let me introduce another character to this conversation.

So this gentleman was not at TMLX 19. He told me he had to, he had dental surgery and could not make TMLX 19, but he absolutely was at TMLX 17 at Paulmas Kitchen in Mississauga, Alan Zweig. So to set the table, Alan did a season of a podcast with FOTM Katie Lohr as like a co-host producer person but

this was called the worst podcast and this was part of Canada Lands double double wing. Is that a wing? I don't know I'm gonna call it a wing. But so it's under the umbrella of Canada Land a very famous podcast network Jesse Brown founded and double double we'll talk about specifically what it meant but I think in a nutshell they were trying to target American Americans I think this was an attempt to kind of break into the American market whatnot and Alan Zweig hosted the show which was more of like a celebrity podcast where Alan would not know who he was going to talk to but then there'd be a celebrity on the line and then Alan would be his most swaggy-ist and would have a conversation with this person.

And that was the worst podcast. Is it true that the second season of the worst podcast is going to be a sonar network production? You know, we haven't announced it publicly. I didn't know. You didn't tell me before. No, I think it's okay. I think, you know what, if we're going to break it, if we're going to break the big news somewhere, I just announce it? I didn't know. You didn't tell me before. No, I think it's okay. I think it, you know what, if we're going to break it, if we're going to break the big news somewhere, I'm glad it's here. Do I have a sound effect for that? Okay, probably.

But are you telling me, because I feel like we had a little chat by the tree and everything. You would have said for sure, oh, we're not ready to announce that because you must have known when I was going to ask about Alan's wife. No, it's fine. It's fine. Yeah, we've, uh, we don't know any of the details about when it's coming out. But I will say that we're working on it. Sure. I can say we're working on this as a team. Katie, Laura, going to be a part of this. The worst podcast is not the worst

kind of podcast without Katie. It's only a very bad podcast. Katie is the worst podcast. Yeah, I didn't mean it like that. I mean, like she really is a key ingredient to why that podcast was so great. So yeah, she's going to be back. I think my last episode that was kind of podcast focused was Katie. So Katie will be back. And she was also at that TMLX 17 at Palmer's Kitchen. We love Katie on this program here. Okay. So can I ask you, is the goal still, since now we've kind of opened the bag here, the cat is out of the bag. I think that's what I'm trying to say. So will the goal of the worst podcast, season two,

continue to be to attract Americans? Like is it still, I just found an inch, I don't know how famous Alan is to Americans, but I feel like he's more famous to Canadians. But Alan Zweig, is he still, is the goal still to get Americans to listen? Yeah, this is what I'll say is, okay, so you might be right. I don't know Canada lands, like business objectives, like was that the reason they did double double? Maybe, maybe not.

I don't know. Maybe they just wanted to broaden. I don't know. But the reason they came to us is because like they were like, we know journalism, we know interviews and Canada stuff, and they're like, you guys are experts in comedy, so let's join forces on this. So that's kind of what happened. So they came to us, I think,

not specifically to reach Americans, but just because we know comedy and that we might be, if we join forces, we might kind of bring in both of our listeners from different sources and try to make the show even bigger and better than it was last season. So it's not, is it a collab as the kids would say? Like is this going to be a Canada land, so in our network collaboration? Yeah, co-production, I think they're calling it, but yeah, both of our logos will be on the art and that kind of stuff. Okay. Has production began for season two of The Worst Podcast with

Alan Zweig? Pre-production. Pre-production. So you've had meetings with Alan? I've had meetings with Alan. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Did you guys talk about me? Yeah, you did come up. He dropped your name. You know, I'm a big Zweig head. I have to say this is that I'm not apologizing for it. I think he's extremely talented and interesting. He's a very interesting Toronto character and I am attracted to such. Yeah. He is an interesting guy. Um, and I think he was nervous about us at first that we were going to change the show. We were going to come in and then we were just like, no, I mean, we just we just want we just want to do Another season of that show, you know And how long is a season in your podcast world? Well the first the second season

I'm not sure I can't tell I not that I can't tell you I don't know along with season one season one was six episodes Yeah, yeah by that math. I'm on season four thousand two hundred. I'm just kidding Yeah, yeah, you're, you're on season one. This is a 2000 episode. This is actually the season one finale next week. Episode 1725 is the start of season two. Tomorrow, Steve Simmons from the Toronto Sun. He'll be my first guest for season two.

Not a bad idea. Just 1723. That's how many episodes per season. But okay. So people can look forward to that production. I know he did say on Toronto, I recorded from TMLX 17, so I had a live recording. Alan definitely, I thought Katie said

it hadn't been made official. Alan definitely said the podcast was done. So it is exciting to me that it is not dead, it has been resurrected and it is coming back. That's exciting. We hope so. We're in the very early stages, but yeah. So when you do pick, let's say it's six episodes

because the first one was six episodes. Will they be six people famous to Americans or is it something you can't speak to yet? Like I'm only asking because season one had Ron McClain in there. Ron McClain, a very famous Canadian to Canadians, essentially unknown to an American audience. Ron McClain in there. Ron McClain, a very famous Canadian to Canadians, essentially unknown to an American audience.

Yeah, I mean, our goal is just to get great guests because the hook of the show that I think we didn't even mention is that, and if you know Alan from this show, you know that he's like a curmudgeon. He's kind of a grumpy guy. Proudly so. So yeah, and he's proud and he's great. He wrote a whole movie about curmudgeon. Yeah, so yeah, the show is about putting him in interviews with people and just and that would kind of be a good pairing to a curmudgeonly kind of grumpy guy. So yeah, that's the goal. It's not like, you know, obviously the

more notoriety the better. It's like,'s like, why would we cut off a certain part of the world if we can, but like, we're not gonna get George Clooney as a guest, so, you know, it's like, you know, kind of getting the best guest we can. Okay, no George Clooney, because you said that because I keep referencing ER. Yeah, I guess I used you as incepted that into my mind. But now I'm thinking of handsome American stars.

Okay, George Clooney is on the Mount Rushmore with Brad Pitt, who also in many a Tarantino movie much like the late great Michael Madsen. So, but now I'm thinking of another very handsome American, John Hamm. Okay. Is there a podcast coming from the Sonar Network that has big names like John Ham participating in it? Yeah, how did you know that? I'm reading it right here in the press release you gave me before you walked in.

Not sure I didn't give you one, but I have been talking about this show nonstop, so no surprise you knew about it. But yeah, we were releasing a show coming out July 29th of this month. That's my daughter's 21st birthday. Oh, wow. Big birthday. Big one. But yeah it's a it's a narrative comedy series written by Mike Sacks and it stars yeah John Hamm Bobby Moynihan. He's funny. Yeah he's great.

Ray Sehorn from Better Call Saul. She's great. John Waters. I just watched the remake of Hairspray with my youngest yesterday. John Waters has a cameo early where he's walking on, I said, that's John Waters. And then I said, that's the guy from the Homer, Homersexual, the one, yeah, you know the episode. That's John Waters is so good in that episode of The Simpsons. Yeah, and he's awesome in this show. He, him and John Hamm are like kind of a duo. They like, he's like kind of John Hamm's guy.

So, but it's scripted, I just want to understand. So it's a scripted show and you have major American celebrities reading the voices. Yeah, and we have a lot of get involved in that We've worked with Mike Sacks before who's like Mike Sacks, you know, well-known author in the comedy world He wrote like poking a dead frog and here's the kicker, you know these interview books But he's also written a lot of fiction and we've worked with him before and he just like liked working with us. I think he said he refers to us. He says that we're like punk rock. He didn't like working with like networks that are like, you know, going to give him

lots of notes and he's got to go through all this red tape. He just and for us, it's like we just want Mike to be able to make the show that he wanted in this show that he envisioned. And that's why he I think went with us in the end. If you're punk rock, I'm fucking Stephen Leckie over here. I'm the Vile Tones. Yeah, absolutely. OK, so that's coming on my daughter's birthday.

That's July 29th. People can hear this on the sonar. What's the name of it again? Stanland. Stanland. Yeah, subscribe. You can subscribe to it right now, even. There's a trailer out there.

Teaser. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I wanted to make sure I shouted out the, this wide connection. And then we did talk some humble and Fred here. How's it going of humble and Fred, by the way, you're now six months deep into your relationship with these two Toronto radio legends. It's going great. Had a meeting with them the other day. We got some fun stuff that we're working on. It's going great. Had a meeting with them the other day. We got some fun stuff that we're working on. And but yeah, I think it's just we're just cruising along. I know they have a show, live show that I'm want to go to. Kelsey's. Yeah, Kelsey. This morning from Fred saying, hey, we want a psychic at this show. Like, go book a psychic. And I was thinking, I'm thinking like psychic Nikki from the 90s. But psychic Nikki, they don't want psychic Nikki.

Could be one of new psychic. And I literally spent time this morning on the phone with psychics who could be at a Kelsey's in Burlington for an hour on a Sunday and to feel who had the best sense of humor and vibe for the Humble and Fred show. I literally was doing that this morning for this event. Oh, wow. Cool. So this guest is great. that's I get all the credit. If this guest sucks, it was a terrible idea, not my fault. Yeah, I agree with that. You got that? Yeah. I second that.

We're clearing that. Okay, two quick shout outs. I realize when I'm doing an hour, it's like a whole different ballgame here. This actually works. So I'm going to shout out recyclemyelectronics.ca because Michael, i'm sure you have old cables maybe old microphones old laptops just sitting in a drawer or a closet or maybe you got a whole like suite for this i don't know but don't throw them in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill go to recycle my electronics dot ca put in your postal code and find out where to drop it off to be properly recycled okay okay yeah that's. I actually do have all kinds of that stuff and It's literally just taking up space in my house. I'm never gonna use it again. Well, do you just honestly I'm not this is yeah

Sure, I'm paid to say it but I mean it because I've done it recycle my electronics dot CA You'll see a place near you. It might be a staples who knows what it is But then you just drop it off and it gets properly recycled and you got like a good feeling. Yeah. It's a good feeling you'll get. Yeah, I'm in. I'm gonna do it. Okay, do that. Building Toronto Skyline and building success are two podcast series from

Nick Gainey. He's from Fusion Corp Development and he stepped up to help fuel the real talk. And we love Nick. We got a couple of episodes recording next Friday morning. I urge everybody to subscribe to these podcasts and also subscribe to Brad Jones from Ridley Funeral Homes Fine Podcast, Life's Undertaking. We recorded a new episode yesterday. Okay, Michael, why are you by the way a Michael and not a Uh, I'm only a Michael because you've been calling me Michael. But I see Michael every it says Michael Monge already.

I've never seen Mike Monge. Yeah, I guess you're right. I do write that. Well, I'm not just I would never like by default say Michael like it's everywhere I see it's Michael. Yeah, I really I truly don't have a preference. People always ask me. Um, but yeah, in emails and stuff like my signature says Michael, but

like Mike is fine. Mike, all the bios, like all the official Sonar Network bios say Michael Mongeardi. At some point, someone made a decision that you would your public facing name was going to be Michael. Yeah, I don't know how that happened,

but it was kind of accidental because people in my life call me Mike. Yeah. Can I call you Mike? Absolutely. No, I'm Mike. You're going to be Michael. Yeah. Can I call you Mike? Absolutely. No, I'm Mike. You're going to be Michael. Oh, that's fair. Yes.

So, okay. So now I want to have a, spend the last 15 minutes here, having a general chat about the state of Canadian podcasting. Like, what are your thoughts on the current state of Canadian podcasting? What I mean by that is, I by Canadian podcasters for Canadians. I'm tired of the Canadian podcasters targeting Americans. I would love to know how you think the industry is doing right now. Um, I think that, uh, so you were talking Canadian specifically.

Canadians for Canadians is what I specifically am interested in. Yeah, so I think the I think the Canadian industry is a little bit sad. It's we're really eclipsed by the US podcast world and I don't know how to get out of that. You know it's like no matter how hard we try to be where Canadian Network Canadian shows all most of our shows are hosted and produced by Canadians still a huge to be where Canadian network, Canadian shows, most of our shows are hosted and produced by Canadians. Still a huge percentage, majority of our listenership is coming from the US. It's just, you know, their population is so much bigger than ours.

And so then they have so much sway in the world stage. Well, it's 10 times bigger than ours, but I'll bet you it's more than 10 times the listenership coming out of the states. No it's less than 10 times. Yeah it's less than 10 times but yeah it's it is definitely five times. Okay yeah but I gotta ask you so like you're so excited and rightly so that you have this scripted podcast by Mr. Sax that is going to have voices like John Hamm and Bobby Moynihan and these are like very famous this is like smart like a smart list crew okay although one of the smartest guys is Canadian but might as well be American okay but the the fact that these are big American stars doing this scripted thing it there's the fact that to you kind of cool, but there is no

Canadianity at play with that particular project. Well, I mean that's not true entirely I mean educate me all of these people above the line these big stars We didn't really have any say not that we wanted to we love these people the cast is incredible But I made it so we were like we're producing an executive producing this show So it was a big I mean, we were like, we're producing, and executive producing this show. So it was a big, it was really important to me to get as many Canadian people in as we could. So a lot of the smaller parts, the people that show up, that are in a couple episodes or have small arcs,

not like the main cast, a lot of the supporting cast are Canadian comedians and actors in our little sphere. So that was important to me to get as much Canadian representation as we could. Yeah. Okay. We have handsome guys too, like Ryan Gosling you mentioned earlier. He's a handsome Canadian. Yeah, Ryan Reynolds.

Ryan Reynolds. There's a couple, there's a lot of handsome. I think that we got a, we punch above our weight when it comes to handsome guys. Look at us too. We got Nick Boone or Mike Boone Who the fuck is this Nick Boone? I know Nick Aines is a handsome guy. I don't blame you for confusing us. I'm good. It's funny I thought I swear to you. I thought I turned off my ringer like I thought I did it No, I don't even hear I'm not even hearing it No, but I know but I am and I just glance on this watch here and it's, it's Nick Aini's.

I think he, he knows we're talking about him. Quick, uh, you mentioned Jeremy Hopkins. He's watching us live at live.torontomike.com. He says it was his pleasure to meet you at TMLX 19. Honestly, really genuinely nice guy. You know, you just like, and I'm like, if you're listening to this right now and you're like in the Toronto Mike ecosystem and you've always been like, I'd love to go to one of those things, but like I'm shy or whatever, like just go.

Honestly, I did, I was like nervous to go. I'm like a nervous kind of guy, especially in groups of people. I don't know. You were a comedian. Yeah, I know. I mean, on stage is different. On stage is very different than being in crowds, but it was like so welcoming. And if you're thinking about going, just go, you'll have fun.

And it was delightful to meet him and just chat about Toronto for a few minutes. Also, J-Ho, I'm just reading what he wrote here. I prefer the way Toronto Mike organically places ads, sometimes in a funny way. So thank you, Jeremy Hopkins, because that is how I'm currently rolling. But who knows, maybe after this chat with Michael, tomorrow with Steve Simmons, it's going to be a pre-roll, a mid-roll, maybe a few mid-rolls, depending on how long I go, a post-roll. We might be rolling, rolling, rolling. Shout out to Fred Durst of Olympus. Rest in peace, Fred Durst. He's not dead. Well, not yet. What are you saying? Check what time it is? Yeah, check your time.

Check your watch. Fred Durst, as far as no shout out to Ridley Funeral Home required, that red hat, he was rocking the douchey red hat before it was popular to rock the douchey red hat. Yeah. Give him some credit there. He was ahead of the curve on that one. Hey, so I'm specifically, Michael, since you live and breathe the podcasting world like I do. Although I don't work with Jon Hamm. I don't work with Jon Hamm. I work with Ralph Ben-Murgy. That's the difference. My handsome Canadian guy is Ralph Ben-Murgy. Can you please like speak to the being an independent podcaster? I'm always interested because there are networks. We mentioned Canada land, right? There's big networks like CBC, for example, which seems to do, you know, to do a lot of work in the podcasting space. So if we remove

these big networks, I know Chorus has a network, Curious Cast, is that what it's called? Right? And that's where you would hear like the ongoing history in new music, etc. Shout out to FOTM Robbie J. What's it like for an independent podcaster in this country who wants to make money as a podcaster? I Mean yeah making money kill yourself now. Is that what yeah, it's not easy. It's give up your dreams Yeah, it's hard and it's a grind, especially if it's if you're going for ad revenue But it's just like, you know build the following following, start a show. And if you go get into it, not being like, this is going to make me, this is going to be my career.

If you get into it because you love doing it, like when you started podcasting, I'm sure you weren't, didn't have the goal to have all these sponsors and make it your job. You were just like, I have fun doing this and I want to talk to cool people. Like that's the right attitude. And if you started that attitude, that's your best chance for success. If you start being like, I'm going to make money, it's not going to go well. But if you had a great idea for a podcast and you wanted to make money on it, I understand

what you're saying, which is actually correct. It's tough sledding for an independent podcaster. But would you recommend seeking out a network, like being part of a network? And I know you bring an inherent bias to this question, but what is the value of a network versus rolling your own? Yeah, I mean every network is different and they have different You know, they operate differently and different way that they Generate revenue and stuff. But like in general I would say Yeah, look for a network. I mean you never committed to a network forever You can try it out see if you make some money or whatever.

The good thing about being on a network is you have someone looking out for you, kind of trying to get you some ads. They're trying to get you, build your following. We do all kinds of stuff behind the scenes that our shows don't even know about. We're doing ad swaps. We're trading ads for our shows

with other networks and other shows just to try to raise their their following to grow their shows. And like, you know, you can, sure, I guess you can do all that yourself. Um, but it's also nice to, you know, focus on the art and making good work and like let the networks in, you know, it's also not easy to find the network pitching to a network. Every, like I can say, unless you're John Hamm Yeah, yeah, we're not like Allen's wag. Yeah, we're not the biggest network in Canada. That's for sure

But I can say that I'm getting pitches probably almost every day. Yeah from other shows so there's lots of shows out there it's hard to pitch and and You know what if you reach out to me personally, even if you want just be like, I wanna pitch to other networks, not even yours, can you give me some tips? I'm always there to help people, like trying to get it, start their podcast journey or whatever. I met someone really cool at your event, by the way.

I got a cool came to my event. Yeah, a guy named Steven Poppick. Yes, I actually was on his podcast and I made the remark, which was true, is that it's the first in-person podcast recording invitation I received since COVID. Wow. Yeah, so that's five years, right? So in the past five years,

people asking me to record in person. Now, there's a caveat to this. I do have an open invitation to be on a, the show is called, "'No Sleep Till Sudbury, is the name of the show, and he records in, I believe it's Whitby, Oshawa, I think it's Whitby. So there is an invitation to record in person in Whitby,

but I mean, in terms of something I could bike to, so something I could like bike to, this guy was recording like in Blue or West Village, and it was an easy little bike ride, and I sat down with him and had a nice little chat with him, and I remember thinking, oh, this is how podcasting should be done in person. And then I remember that's how I do it, Michael. That's right.

In person. What do you think of this, especially since Covid, this huge switch where I think the default setting for most podcasters now, including Humble and Fred, is to just use some piece of software and meet remotely. Yeah, I will say it's a shame. Before before COVID, I would have said, I would have said remote is like out of the question. You have to be in the same room.

The you know, it's just not as good, which is still true. But I think COVID forced us into a situation where we had to learn how to do that. And so like in editing and post productionproduction in like the software has gotten better like Riversides and Zen casters of the world. Yeah, but you're still not in the same room. There's still energy is still different There's still an energy that's missing. There's still like this dynamic and banter of being in the same room that you can never fake So it's always better But I think it's just it's made it a little bit easier to like if you want to have a episode with someone that's in Like germany, it's like now you can do it.

It's just, you know, not as good as sitting in the... I won mid year on my show and he's overseas. Now I can make that happen. But, you know, you always could. I always had that in my back pocket for the people I knew were never going to be in Toronto. But for all, you know, it's just now it's strange. Like you'll have somebody who's maybe, I don't know, five kilometers away and you're going to do it on a, like you said,

Riverside or Zen Zen cast or you'll be on zoom or whatever. And I just think it is a damn shame. Don't do it on zoom though. It doesn't work. You know, humble and Fred do it on zoom. Okay. Well, he doesn't have to talk. That's going to be the next note on your, those meetings. I never get invited to those. I'm not even like, I say, okay, that's fine. They don't want me to, this means how come I didn't have to talk. That's gonna be the next note on your those meetings. I never get invited I'm not even like I say, okay, that's fine. They don't want me this means how come I don't how come the producer of humble Fred does not get invited to these meetings that are happening with the sonar network and humble and Fred I don't know. I mean we don't have a lot of meetings. I we had we sound like you're a meeting every week

I had no no no there. I met I met with them like once recently, but it's been a while since I mean Fred does call me every once in a while when there's some issue with like money something not like issue with money but like there was like some invoicing thing and so every once in a while I'll get a message from him but that's just like a quick little fix and then then we move on but as far as meetings go I don't think we did have one recently but that was it yeah. Okay only read the minutes of that after this recorded here. Okay, so maybe on our wind down here So I feel almost like that's a disheartening message though to leave people with considering I've done it So it's not like I don't know anyone who's done it

but if you are an independent podcaster who's got passion in the belly and Willing to like hone their crap work on their craft and put in their reps And get better I don't want to like leave people of this message like don't even like don't even think about monetizing because no I mean we don't even humble and fried like they they they were independent and they Make an adult wage and I've got paying sponsors on the program. I've got a lasagna in my freezer for you. You're going home with some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes. You got a measuring tape from Millie Funeral Home and a book

on the Maple Leafs history. This is mine? Yeah. Sweet. Didn't I give it to you? Okay, well thank you. Yeah, for sure. That book is yours, okay? I don't want to see it on eBay tonight or anything like that, okay Michael? But there, it's tough because cutting through the noise of a, I don't know, over Michael, but there it's tough because cutting through the noise of a Over a million podcast. It's tough But I still think cream will rise even if it might take 12 years for somebody like Michael Mongeardi Who's in your wheelhouse to discover you exist? I agree a cream will rise. It's just I think You have to let it you have to slowly build your audience over time. That's the thing though, people want us right away, right?

Yeah. It doesn't work that way. It's a slow burn. You really have to be patient when you're building, because you're not just building this show, because you're not a famous person. John Hamm can launch a show and a bunch of people on day one, they're interested, you've got their attention because they loved Mad Men or whatever, right? But for regular people like you and I and the regular Joes out there, it's a slow burn.

You have to be patient. You have to put in the time. You have to put in the reps. Yeah. And people think that, you know, they start a show and they want it to blow up and stuff and it's like, it doesn't really happen like that. You really need to... If I can just like, you know,

pull everyone down to earth, like starting, if you're thinking about starting a podcast and just like start because like I said, because you like it, because you want to do something fun and like, and plan to be doing it for a few years before you really start seeing money and then you'll be okay. Okay, and ideally invent a time machine and go back and do it 15 years ago. Yeah that helps too. I always think that's the real real

conversation I have myself on a bike ride will be okay would I do what I did if I started now? Like I don't think so like I really think it was 2012 when I started Toronto Mike and I really think it was just ahead of everyone and their uncle thinking they could be a podcaster. Yeah, yeah, there is that. The market is so, so saturated right now, and it's even harder to for cream to rise. But like you said, it's just more time. Time will get will rise to the top. But yeah, the market is is really cluttered with stuff right now.

And more reason, Michael, I know I said I call you Mike, but whatever, Michael, more reason to I know I said I call you Mike but whatever Michael more reason to support your favorite Local independent podcaster like if you do like what you hear and you realize oh, there's no network behind this guy He's this isn't a CBC show or a Canada land show or a curious cast show or whatever Like it really is important if they have a patreon become a patreon Let them know like by liking and reviewing and say hey, this is a great show. I enjoyed this conversation If they have a live events, I've had 19 of these there'll be a 20th in September probably

If you can geographically make an appearance and just like show the love show the support and if they have sponsors and I'm not taught That's the difference. I think between these dynamic roles and the actual live reads is that when I do a live read for Palma Pasta well you can hear the end of toast recorded last Thursday where we phoned Anthony Petrucci from Palma Pasta live on the recording to ask what food will be at TMLX 19 like we did that live right and that's the relationship you know I was at Great Lakes Brewery they were hosting us for that day and Troy was there because I think I think he won't admit it but I think he wanted to see snow I don't know but my point is

that let the sponsors know you're buying there and you're spending money there because they support Toronto Mike I mean any independent podcast okay and yes I don't't know. I'll add to that too. Mike, do you add to it, Michael? Do you have promo codes? Do your brands sponsor you with codes to use? Some have, but currently there are no promo code. Well, if there are use, always use the codes. Don't forget to use the code. Use the code for the creator who sent you there because that's how they get credit. That's how they get kicked back or that's how they just get recognized for having driven people over to the brand. So yeah. Okay. So be great. So on our way out here, you've been amazing, Michael. You're now officially an FOTM. That's an honor. Although I think when you show up at the Toronto Mike listener experience, you get the status at that moment, but now the world knows about it. So

you're here. We're kind of in business together because I produce a show that's on your network. So like we're already kind of in business together. I took notes here, things I do wrong. OK, and then you can tell me what to add to this list on our way out. I'm still writing my own XML. OK, literally, it's it's like no pad. It's whatever the one that comes with Apple

or whatever, text pad or whatever the hell they call this thing. Text edit, right? So I will, after this recording, I will make a little amendment and edit to the XML file and then publish it over top the old one and that will push this episode to the subscribers and everybody. So I still write my own XML. Nobody seems to be doing that anymore, but I did start doing that in 2006 when we started Humble and Fred one-off podcasts in December 2006. Also I don't have any dynamic ad insertions. I understand I am leaving many, many thousands of dollars on the table. Is that fair to say, Michael? I could be a rich man, but instead I don't do that. So those are two things. Anything else we should throw in the pile

of things I'm not quite doing properly? No, I think everything else you're doing perfectly. Everything else. All right. So you don't need to write your own XML, Mike, because there are things like, although I actually like working with E& service and writing my own xml so i might not listen to you on that one and the dynamic ad insertions nick ienies wants me to do this too i need to meditate on this uh i've been meditating on it for six months i might need another six months on this one but whatever i end up doing i will pick that big brain of yours anytime we'll meet for another super coffee at Mount Dennis. Yeah. Maybe a Great Lakes beer at the brewery.

Oh yeah, anytime, man. Michael, I think you've earned the moniker FOTM Mike. I'm now granting you Mike privileges. Oh my God, I'm a Mike. I'm finally a Mike. My dreams have kindly come true. And shout out to Ell Ellen Zweig. When he launches season two of this podcast, urge him to come back on Toronto Mike. I will force him to come back at gunpoint.

And you know, he's launching another show with a different network. Yeah, we don't talk about that one. We don't talk about Bruno. And that brings us to the end of our 1723rd show. Note to future Mike, encode- Me? No, me. Come on.

Oh, I guess you're also future Mike. Note to future Mike. OBS is telling me, I need to know this for later, encoding overloaded, consider turning down the video settings or using a faster encoding preset. I actually never had this issue till last week and now it's popping up periodically and it's creating this frame rate issue with the live stream and it's bothering me and I need to fix it. So this is a note to future Mike.

Troubleshoot this issue with OBS. Maybe Ian will help you if you need another big brain to pick right there. Much love to all who made this possible. That is Great Lakes Brewery. Don't forget your beer, Michael. Palma Pasta is in my freezer. Don't leave without your large beef lasagna. Toronto's Waterfront BIA. Throughout the summer, I'll be shouting out different events happening at the waterfront. This fun Philippines Toronto food and music festival sounds amazing. I got a couple of children who are half Filipino. I feel like it'll be good to help them get in touch with their roots. Recyclemyelectronics.ca, I know you're already going there.

Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Christy Pitts, everybody. Best value in town. Building Toronto's skyline with Nick Ienies and Ridley Funeral Home. Listen to yesterday's episode of Life's Undertaking with Brad Jones and I. See you all tomorrow. My special guest is Steve Simmons of The Toronto Sun. If you have any questions whatsoever for Steve Simmons, you still have a little time. Get them to mike at torontomic.com.

You're from, what's the town you're from again? Burlington? You're Burlington, Mike. Okay. You're Bur, what's the town you're from again? Burlington? You're Burlington, Mike. Okay, you're Burlington, Mike. Peace and love to everybody. See you tomorrow. So You