Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Mike Daley: Toronto Mike'd #1192

Episode Date: January 20, 2023

In this 1192nd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Dr. Mike Daley, a musician and musicologist, about David Crosby, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Rick James, and the history of live music in the Yorkville coffee house district of Toronto in the 1950s and 1960s. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 1192 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville.

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And Sammy Cone Real Estate. Ask Sammy any real estate questions. At sammy.cone. At properlyhomes.ca. Joining me today, making his Toronto Mike debut is Mike Daly. Welcome, Mike. Thank you, Mike. Great to be here. Mike on Mike. Now, I have to tell the FOTMs listening that you, I did warn you and I had that chat with you that the ceiling's going to dip. I said, please watch your head. And you said, oh yeah. And you kind of touched it and you're like, oh yeah.

But then you went to put your jacket at the part where you could stand up over there where you put your jacket. And then you completely forgot about the warning. Yes. And I feel terrible because you slammed your head against my ceiling right now. Pretty darn good. I really am sorry. It was just a glancing blow.

I don't think it's going to have any... But are you okay? Like in all seriousness, you're not seeing stars or anything. I'm not seeing stars. I've got a little bump here. A little bump. A handsome little ridge to add to the collection. I need to...

You know what? I got to start promoting my Patreon more, get some money so I can dig down. Let's dig down in the channel. Lower the basement. Lower the basement. I don't know. That's only about $20,000 or something. So let's see what we can do.

But thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. And I feel like, I think I canceled your first visit because I had COVID and then I feel like you were under the weather and I feel like this might be our third shot at this. Yeah, I believe so. And I think a third time's a charm. Yeah, absolutely worth it.

I visited MikeDailyMusic.com and I'm going to tell you, you know, daily has many ways you can spell daily. So I just want to let people know it's daily here in this case, because we're used to, you know, Mark Daly, the voice and all this, but you are D-A-L-E-Y. Correct. MikeDailyMusic.com. I'm on MikeDailyMusic.com. And I says to meself, I says, I need to talk to this guy. And here you are.

Yes. I'm going to... Do I have the whole thing here? Actually, okay. I'm just thinking, okay. Yes. Yes. I want to shout, okay. Yes. Yes. I want to shout out a gentleman named Bernie Fishbean. I hope I'm saying that right.

Bean is B-E-I-N. Fishbean. It could be Fishbine. Fishbine, maybe. Maybe. But I received an email from this gentleman, Bernie. I like the name Bernie. Like Bernie Finkelstein.

You got, you know, Weekend at Bernie. Bernie Fiedler. Bernie, absolutely. Yeah, one without the other. And there's a great Weekend at Bernie's. Weekend at Bernie's. There's a great Lowest of the Low song, So Long Bernie, on Shakespeare My Butt. We're going to hear a song at the end of this episode from

that same album. But here is the quote from Bernie Fishbein. He is a very talented local performer a musicologist and a great lecturer on past musical groups such as the everly brothers and beatles as well as a toronto music historian and author like that's an email, that's a quote. I just copied and pasted it from Bernie. And that's about you, right? Yeah, that's pretty true. And you're just out there and here you are now.

Okay, so many places to begin, but I'm going to play a little music here. A little Crosby, Stills, and Nash. I am sorry Sometimes it hurts A little Crosby, Stills and Nash. This is, of course, because we lost David Crosby yesterday. So I thought I'd open, like, we're going to find out, like, we're going to talk about your Yorkville research and everything. But we're kind of connected in a neat way, I think, that you're now an FOTM, Friend of Toronto Mic'd.

Another FOTM, Friend of Toronto Mic'd. Another FOTM is Barry Witkin. Do you know this name at all? Barry Witkin. Yeah, I know Barry. So Barry came on. Basically we talked about the history of the Purple Onion, which was 35 Avenue Road

and of course this is back in the early to mid 60s, 60 to 65 I think. But can you share with us, like in the early to mid 60s, 60 to 65, I think. But can you share with us, like in your research, is it possible, probable maybe, that the legend that was David Crosby played at the Purple Onion? It's very possible. There is a listing in the Star in May 1962 that has David Crosby playing at the Purple Onion. that has David Crosby playing at the Purple Onion. And I thought, when I found out about this,

I thought that was interesting, and I wanted to see if he actually made it here, and if this was the same David Crosby, because this is quite early for him. This is pre-Birds, and he's just a solo folky at that time. And so I went on Twitter, and David Crosby was very active on Twitter. Right. And I tagged him with the question, did you play in Toronto at the Purple Onion in May 1962? And he answered and he said, I think I did.

Oh, that's inconclusive, though. But we should ask, like Barry would know, right? Maybe. He might. I don't. I think I might have asked him about it but he didn't remember you know they had a lot of people and it and this was 60 years ago right so uh and it would have just been for a few days i'm gonna bet it was him because it just seems like uh it's got to be him like yeah you know let's run with that that that's so so before the birds, David Crosby played at the Purple Onion,

Yorkville, the Yorkville scene of the early 60s, you said May 1962. That was him. So it seems if he made it, you know, not everybody who was

advertised actually played because they'd get hung up or something would happen. And so there's no other evidence that I've seen that he actually did. So I'm cautiously optimistic that Crosby played at the Purple Onion. We'll put this under the probable, like we'll put it in the probable bucket,

but we cannot say for sure. We need to go back and look at some of those like 1962 music blogs and see if anyone blogged about the David Crosby show at the Purple Onion. Maybe we start there. The reason I know Barry Witkin is because his son, Andrew, founded a company called StickerU. And StickerU was an absolutely amazing sponsor

and partner of this program for several years. Until this year, 2023, there would be a big, large Sticker U decal just right behind me. So I got to know Andrew because of Sticker U and their great support of this program. And then I met... I did an episode with Barry when I

read a Toronto Star article about how he wanted there to be some kind of museum. In the building that they're putting up on the site of the Purple Onion, which was just torn down last year. So we never got the museum, right? No, they said they might make a wall in the lobby. Maybe they'll do what they did for a wall. A wall.

Maybe they'll do what they did for Dave Bookman outside the Horseshoe Tavern and just give you one of those plaque things. Well, there is a... Oh, there is a plaque there. There is a Heritage Toronto plaque there, yeah. Right, we're looking

for more here. All right, I want to chat you up because I hear you're a musician. I just want you to basically find out more about you, but I'm also keen to talk to you as a musicologist

because I personally love diving into Toronto's musical history and the Yorkville stuff, for example. And then maybe we'll just chat and then I'll excitedly absorb your knowledge. But can we start with you as a musician? Tell me about your life as a musician. Well, I started playing as a preteen because of the Beatles started playing guitar and singing and what I was in bands in high school and then I

went on the road just out of high school playing country and classic rock in Northern Ontario. And for some reason that wasn't satisfying and a goal. So I decided to do school. And so I went to Mohawk College as a voice and guitar major studying jazz and liked school quite a bit this time around. And went on to McMaster. Did a degree in music. And then York University as doing graduate study. But kept playing. And you might remember a band I was in called the Killjoys. Oh my God. From the 90s.

You know, Mike's a, Mike Treblecock is a FOTM. Oh, there you go. I love the Killjoys. Today I hate everyone. And Dana. Yeah, I you go. I love the Killjoys. Today I hate everyone. Dana! Yeah, I was in that band early on, but when they started taking off, I didn't want to quit school. So I left the band

and they became a trio from that point. Okay. And I was in a band in the early 90s that made an album, a band called Nine Big Dogs that got some play on CFNY. Okay. And, but just sort of mostly just doing local stuff

around Hamilton, was living in Hamilton for quite a few years. And then moved to Toronto, began playing with Jeff Healy when I was soon after arriving. His drummer's an FOTM. I unfortunately miss Jeff, but I do bike often to Park Lawn Cemetery, and I see his final resting place there. Gary Scriven.

Is that the drummer you spoke to? No, Tom Stevens. Oh, Tom Stevens, of course, from the original Healy band. The original Jeff Healy band. He wrote a good book about... Yeah, Best Seat in the House. Yeah, I like that. No, so did I.

And then you get like, because you hear about, what's the Patrick Swayze movie, Roadhouse. Roadhouse. Yeah. Oh man, that haunted Jeff. Oh man, those stories are epic. And Jeff Healy just seems like a good time Charlie.

Like, I mean, great musician. I still remember like listening to Q107 when like confidence man came out yeah and um yeah and his his cover of the george harrison jam while my guitar gently sleeps and all that amazing musician gone far too soon yeah he was a he was incredible he was an an incredible incredible musician and a and quite a musicologist himself of especially of 1920s jazz and dance band music and his record collection is justly famous and his knowledge of that collection also so so i worked with him um in his jazz band and his rock band jazz wizards yeah band, in his rock band. Jazz Wizards. Yeah, so in his last years, I did a fair bit of playing with him.

Okay. And then I met his bass player in the rock band was Alec Fraser, and we met around that time playing together. And we started a duo 15 years ago, and we're still playing, and we've been playing actually a bar on Roncesvalles for 15 years. In fact, we have our 15 year anniversary coming up February 1st. Okay. Coming up.

So promote it. What's the bar? It's called the Intersteer Tavern and it's at 357 Roncesvalles and we'll be there Wednesday, February 1st. I'm pretty there Wednesday, February 1st. I'm pretty sure it's the 1st. You're skilled at saying February. Like some people have difficulty. Yeah. You've got it mastered.

I've worked on it. I worked on it. I did a retreat and, you know. Can you teach me to say brewery? Brewery. The rural juror. That's what it's like. Now, because I said brewery, like it triggers an alarm now where I need to tell you that two things.

One is if you did want to consume, no pressure, of course, but these are some fresh cans of Great Lakes beer fresh out of my fridge. And you're welcome to partake. And if you choose not to, you can take some Great Lakes home with you regardless. I will take it home with me and I thank you. And because I gave you the beer, I'm now going to let you know you also have a large lasagna, frozen lasagna, going home with you.

And that's courtesy of Palma's Kitchen, which is from Palma Pasta. And they have four locations in Mississauga and Oakville. And it's delicious, man. You're going to let me know that was the best lasagna you ever had from a store.

Can't wait. So look at these gifts. You didn't know you were getting gifts. And now because i feel like i should drain the uh drain the swamp here but ridley funeral home that's a flashlight for you because i think there's a white thing you gotta pull out yeah yeah pull that white thing yeah that pulls out the bottom right you got it this guy this guy knows you can tell he's a musicologist uh doctorate in music okay so you got the flashlight from Ridley Funeral Home and that's a measuring tape because you never know when you have to measure something. Yeah, all the time.

It's all going home with you. Okay, so I'm just digesting the Killjoy's things. Let me just come back to it. And then, yeah, Fraser Daily. Amazing that you're doing that with Alec Fraser there. But, and wait, does that include the Tom Waits Appreciation Congregation? Oh, yeah.

And so I play in that group as well for many years now, just doing the music of Tom Waits in our own way. Do you sing the Tom Waits music? Okay. No, I just play guitar in that group. It's Marty Morin, the original drummer of Godot, who is the... Greg Godowitz is a FOTM. Yeah, of course he is.

What took you so long to be here, Mike? I don't know. I don't know. I've been waiting by the phone and... Is that true? You know what? Of course he is. What took you so long to be here, Mike? I don't know. I don't know. I've been waiting by the phone. Is that true? You know what? Now that I think about it, this gentleman I quoted off the top.

What was his name? Bernie Fishbein. That sounds like an alias. Was that you with a burner account? Because that would work, right? Well, that's a great idea. Because I got this email from Bernie. He sold me. He said, like, this guy's amazing.

And then, like I said, I went to MikeDailyMusic.com. And I'm like, yeah, this guy should come on Toronto Mike where has he been all my life Bernie Fishbein just confess is it you if it was me I would have talked about how handsome I am well he does there's a whole paragraph here but now you know that's before you got smack you get that big uh smash on your before I got the goose egg here. The Killjoys. And then I want to shout out a couple more people and another FOTM too. And then we're going to get to, don't worry everybody,

the musicologist stuff. I think that's the goal, to be honest. But I wanted to cover this music stuff first. The Killjoys. So remind me, so there's four members and then what made you quit the Killjoys again? So there were four members

and it was in the early 90s in Hamilton, and I did a bunch of gigs with them and rehearsed, and we did those songs that ended up on the first album. But I was doing my undergrad at McMaster, and they were going on the road. They were going places. at McMaster and they, they were going on the road, they were going places. So, uh, we amicably parted and they went on to do their thing. And I, and I was glad I stayed in school. Yeah. Everybody wins, I suppose. And the, the, uh, like is one of the jams that you were a part

of, uh, today I hate everyone. Well, we did come later. Well, yeah, that, I mean, the recordings came later after I was out of the group. But I was there when that song was brought to the rehearsals and we would play those songs at gigs. Amazing. You could have been a Much Music star. Yeah. And I just had a case.

So I just... Do you know the name David Kynes? Does that name mean anything to you? Yeah, that rings a bell. Well, he was at Much Music, running Much Music, music director or whatever, at Much Music for years.

Now he's at Hollywood Suites. Suites? Is there an S at the end of that? No, I think it's just Sweet. Hey, Hollywood Suite. But he sent me these two boxes. This is a couple of weeks back. He sent me these two boxes

and I didn't know what was inside. So I recorded myself unboxing these boxes. And they were full of DVDs and CDs. I didn't know what was inside. So I like recorded myself unboxing these boxes. And they were full of like DVDs and CDs. And I shared the video with people on Twitter and on torontomic.com. And then I said, if you see anything you like, just send me like a DM or an email and I'll get it to you.

Like, well, you know, if I can bike to you or if you want to pick it up or whatever. And now so much is gone. But there was so much gold in there, so much gone. I've got a little bit left, but it's been fun. Like it's been fun. I literally do drop-offs during my lunch break or whatever. And I go, I bike downtown and I'm like,

here's someone in that, you know, Young and King. And now I got to go over here to like University and King, whatever. Yeah, it's been great fun delivering these DVDs and CDs to FOTMs in Toronto. There's something so nice about sharing music and sharing the physical media in a way that we used to instead of just clicking and dragging something into a, yeah, clicking a link or whatever. It doesn't have quite the same. Because you can't bike a link, right?

Like what am I going to do? Get USB sticks and then, you know, it's not. Like here's an email, but it is, you're right. Yeah. And it's because I, I mean, you can see, I have a CD player here and I don't listen to CDs anymore, unfortunately, but I have Humble and Fred cassette tapes

from the early nineties that I'm trying to digitize. So that's what I'm up to down here. But okay, back to you. The archive. I'm going to, so the Killjoys, you could have been a much music star. Yeah So that's what I'm up to down here. But okay, back to you. The archive. So the Killjoys, you could have been a much music star. Yeah. That's what triggered that whole tangent.

But no regrets? No, no, absolutely not. You could have been like Rivers Cuomo or something. You look a bit like Rivers, no? Yeah, maybe. Justin Rutledge. Yeah, I played with him too. That was when I first moved to Toronto in 2003.

I played lap steel guitar for a year with Justin at the Cameron House. So we did a year of Mondays. And that was a great experience. I met so many people on the scene and, you know, a lot of the sort of pillars of the Toronto. Do you want to name check them? Because part of these episodes, I learn so much when people like you come over and I'm just like a sponge here.

Like, give me some, some name, shout them out. Well, some of the people I met, people like David Baxter, big producer, guitarist, Basil Donovan from Blue Rodeo. Yeah, just some of those, you know, the scen stirs, you know, um, uh, James Gray, the late James Gray. I met him around that time cause he would, he would come out and we ended up working together in the Tom Waits Appreciation Congregation. And, uh, yeah, there was just a great, a great introduction to the scene.

Do you want a fun fact about Justin Rutledge? Sure. He is Dave Hodge's favorite musician of all time. Dave Hodge. Do you know Dave Hodge? Maybe I should have started there. Okay. Okay.

Listen, you never know who you're talking to. Are you a sports fan at all? No. That explains it. This conversation is over. All right. Well,

when you talk to your buddy who is a sports fan, that buddy will hit that part of your head that's tender now from hitting my ceiling and he'll be like, how do you not know Dave Hodge? But yeah, you do have to have some interest in hockey, I suppose. Well, I'll give you a sports fact

that has to do with me and that is I do these lecture series at Hot Docs Theatre, Curious Minds, and somebody who's come to a bunch of my series is Nick Nurse. that is great yeah yeah somebody told me nba champion too yeah that's so i i i feel like maybe i had something to do with that i know he's a big he's a huge music fan we all know that big blues fan and he plays with uh your fellow a certain hamilton band that very, very popular, he likes to play with.

But you keep dropping those names. I need to pick them up. So don't, that's an order. So, okay. So I wanted to shout out Justin Rutledge because I knew you played with him. Anyone else before we move on to your musicologist life? Well, you know, lots of people over the years,

but I guess those are some of the bigger names over the years. But no, I've been mostly just a local musician, you know, and I like that. I like having a place to play and playing with people I like and just having a local audience and being home at night. Are you still the assistant music director at Church of Redeemer in Toronto? I am. How long have you held that title there? I think maybe 10 years I've had that title there. I was an occasional musician there before that, shortly after moving to town.

So what does that entail exactly? musician there before that, shortly after moving to town. So what does that entail exactly? It entails working with the director of music, picking music for services, hiring musicians for special services, leading the choir, writing music for the choir, arranging music for the choir, playing for the services on Sunday mornings with my wife Jill, who's a musician in residence there. Nice. Yeah, so we've got a little team and we just crank out the music. Amazing.

Okay, so musicologist, do you mind if I crack open a Great Lakes myself? Please. Okay, so this is an IPA. I'm right on the mic too, so get ready. This is a burst because lately that's become my favorite. Although I have a bunch, I just picked up a case of Octopus Wants to Fight,

so I'm going to transition. Very popular. It's the burst, yeah. Vivid. So cheers to you, Mike. What makes you a Mike? I think you're about my vintage. Maybe you got a couple of years on me,

but you're a Mike. I'm a Mike. Yeah. You're Dr. Mike Daly. Yes. Do you know your doctor? Yeah. Can you take a look at this bump on my arm?

I'm not the kind that helps people. No, you're a different kind of doctor. Dr. Mike Daly, we'll get to that in a minute, but how did you decide that you're a Mike and not a Michael? I've always been Mike. But your birth certificate says Michael. It does, yeah. And my parents called me Michael, you know, but they're the only ones.

Well, they named you. So they're like, you're Michael, damn it. But you've always been Mike. Yeah. I'm a casual kind of guy, you know, and busy, you know, no time. Do you want to know? And I know you don't know sports, so you won't know this name either. But Michael Landsberg, who's also an FOTM.

Oh, I know who that is. Okay. Sportscaster. Yeah. He's now no longer. But yes, he was at TSN forever. Forever. But I had it. Well, he was.

He was. So Michael Landsberg told me, Mike is the guy who fixes my car. Now that offends me on multiple levels. First of all, what's wrong with being the guy who fixes your car? I wish I could fix your car. Like I'm jealous of the Mike who can fix your car. I wish I could fix my car. Like I'm jealous of the Mike who can fix your car. I wish I could fix my car. And what is that to say? Like

that's a blue collar people are Mike where you know white collar like people. What's he? Some kind of like he's not a musicologist. Mike Lunchbucket. Yeah. Yep. Like that makes me want to be a Mike Moore. Mike Undershirt. Mike Undershirt. Like now it's like I'd never go

I don't like Michael at all, but I just find Michael to be stuffy. Like Michael Landsberg, good on you. It's your name. You can do what you want with it, but you and I, we're Mikes. I've dipped a toe into Michael over the years whenever I thought I should be more serious, and it always just falls back into.

So every time you pull away from Mike, you get sucked back in. Well, plus I like that it offsets doctor a bit. So let's talk about doctor because I, now she's a city counselor, but I produced a show for Dr. Diane Sacks and everything was Dr. Diane Sacks.

And at some point I was uncomfortable. Here's what I, here's my feeling on it. In this, at least in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, where we are,

we live. Dr. Mike, Dr. Mike Daly should be reserved for medical doctors. No, like do you, like you, you think it's fair game because you have like a PhD. Absolutely. Okay. Tell me why. Won't it confuse, isn't that like, okay.

I just feel like, oh, if you go around, I'm Dr. Mike Daly. Like at some point people are going to be like um you know what do i do can you listen to my heart tell me what's going on i don't know tell me why it's okay i think it's i think it it's a short way of conveying something about somebody's seriousness and their and the their dedication to their their work and And so it tells you that they have jumped through a certain number of hoops and they've done a certain number of things. And it does it in a way without you having to do a long explanation of it. And I use it as almost like a company name. Like a brand?

Yeah, it's a brand. When I'm doing a lecture concert or some sort of event or something like that, I go by that name. But I'm certainly not going by that name in any other context. And when I teach, I'm never doctor this or professor that. It's just Mike. But it's for use in certain contexts where it's relevant. I think it's a useful form of shorthand and I'm okay with using it. Well, you've earned the right. Who am I to judge you? I feel now like Michael Landsberg telling you,

Mike fixes my car, okay? No, Landsberg, I'm shaking my fist at you. I'm like, what? Yeah. And, you know, medical doctors, that's one field of knowledge. And that's one, and it's an, you know, it's an incredibly deep, as we know,

very difficult discipline to pursue. But the other doctorate things are also pretty deep. And, you know, a lot of work goes into that. doctorate things are also pretty deep. And a lot of work goes into that. And it's a rare, look, it's a privilege to be able to go to grad school and to do that and stick it out. And I recognize that I have that privilege. But I also did put in the work.

And so I think it's I think it's, uh, okay to be a non-medical designation. I take back my, uh, my, uh, insults about it. I feel bad about it now. At first you hit your head and then I tell you like, who are you to be using doctor? Of course, go ahead, use doctor, you earned it. But what is your PhD in exactly? Ethnomusicology and musicology. You know, I think it's almost surprising to know these are like actual designations. Because I think musicology sounds like something like we'd make up and call Alan Cross a musicologist or something. But Alan Cross doesn't have a Ph.D. Correct.

But sometimes people do call themselves musicologists without having Ph.D.s. Yeah, because they feel they are knowledgeable about certain music. Absolutely. But that to me is worse than you going around calling yourself Dr. Mike. It is worse because it's an actual professional designation and it denotes a

terminal degree. Do you wish Alan Cross would stop calling himself a musicologist? I don't know that he does. He does. He does. He does. Eric Alper, I think, does it too. Eric Alper, who's a, you know, Eric, you know, much loved on this show. Absolutely.

All because you can speak about David Crosby on television doesn't make you a musicologist. You know what this is like? There are many weather people, like weather presenters out there, and meteorologists are kind of like, hey, hold on here. I went to school. I got all these initials after my name.

I'm a meteorologist. You're just reading a script about weather. That's not the same thing. I've learned to let go. I'm trying to rile you up here. I know. I'm not taking the bait. You're so calm. I'm not taking the bait I'm not taking the bait come on Alan Cross

I like Alan Cross oh who doesn't he's a great writer he's a great broadcaster he's a legend of Canadian broadcasting and he's somebody who respects the history loves the history and tells it right so I have nothing

but love and he's an FOTM and he's an fotm and he's an fotm that's a designation he earned alan cross now alan is working right now on a uh like a chorus presentation which is like a documentary about cfny that's fantastic it's actively like being filmed because uh i uh work with humble and fred as i mentioned earlier. And I know like two Tuesdays ago, they were at the Horseshoe Tavern being interviewed by Alan Cross for this documentary. So I guess maybe you and I will be at the premiere or something when this thing comes out.

I'll be watching with great interest. I'd love to. I'd love to see that. I know you said you're from the Hammer, but can I get your like radio listening history? This is kind of, might sound like it's out of left field, but you know, uh, like maybe I listened to this station and then I started listening. Do you have, can you, can you run that off? Yeah. Um, the first time I really remember actively listening to the radio and not just hearing whatever was playing in the

car or whatever. Uh, and of course, growing up in the 70s, being a kid in the 70s, I heard so much CanCon. I didn't realize later how much I was being force fed the stampeters and the guess who. Bong, bong, bong, bong, say bong, bong, bong. And I know what you're going to say. And chill the whack. We had joy, we had fun, we had seasons in the sun. We just kicked that out earlier this week. Me and Rob Pruce, who's from Burlington.

Oh, yeah. And he would listen to 1150. Yeah, I'm from Burlington, actually. Okay. As far as, so, yeah. That's not the hammer. Well, I mean, I was born in Sudbury. I grew up quite a bit of my childhood was in Burlington.

And then I moved to Hamilton when I was 18, 19, and lived there for 15 years and then moved to Toronto. So I listened to CKOC in the late 70s. I remember I won a Sniffin' the Tears album from calling in, being the right caller. Amazing. And that was exciting, right? Because when you're 10 or 11 an album is uh

it's a major undertaking so to be able to get a free album was incredibly exciting um i started listening to q107 um around the same time because i was a huge classic rock person what time are we talking about so we're talking early 80s okay so i So I'm, you know, and that's, look, I loved the Beatles, Dylan, The Doors, Hendrix, Zeppelin, and all of that. I didn't really care that much for the music of the 80s when I was there. I wanted to hear the music of the 60s and Q107 delivered. Now, because they were playing new rock back then, but they would also play older rock. I wanted to hear the music of the 60s, and Q107 delivered. Now, because they were playing new rock back then, but they would also play older rock.

Right, so I liked all of that. That was great. Do you have any personalities you want to shout out that you would listen to on Q107? I know I'm putting you on the spot there. Jeez. Would you listen to the Q107 morning show? Would you listen to Scruff Connors or something like that? I don't remember listening to that. I think it was just sort of here and there sure i

was always more of a record person than a radio person anyway you know because they didn't they didn't really play i as i got into stuff that was more obscure they just never played it and so i came to depend more on cassettes and and albums and things okay so ckoc q107 yeah and then cfny in the late 80s early 90s I I kept I kept following newer trends you know and uh I think that's the last time I really actively listened to the radio a lot. I did actually work at CBC for a while in radio for about three years as a radio producer. Can you be more specific? Yeah. So I dropped out of my PhD for a few years because I needed to make money and work. And so I went and got a job at CBC as an associate producer. And I worked on several shows,

including Tom Allen's morning show, Music and Company. What else? There was a few of them. In concert, there was an evening live music show with Eric Friesen. And I do research, write scripts, and edit interviews and stuff like that. It was a cool gig. Before we get too far away from CFNY, I know I asked you this about Q107

and I didn't get much of an answer, but is there any personalities on any particular shows? Because there was a lot of foreground programming back then. I said that twice. But is there any hosts on CFNY that you want to name check? Well, I remember Don Burns being great on there twice but uh is there any uh hosts on cfy that you want to name check well i i remember uh don burns being great on there and uh alan cross we were just talking about and uh was may potts may pots was absolutely there she was there and those are the ones that are sort of um resonating in my

mind well may pots just recorded her uh part for uh the c CFNY doc we were just chatting about. So this is coming. I am curious, though, because I believe, I believe, I'm 99.9% sure that this is a Chorus production. Chorus, of course, owns CFNY. So I'm just, I am interested, like, how they handle the whole Martin Streak thing. Because, you know, it might, I'm curious whether they speak about the fact that Martin was let go. He was fired from his job on CFNY

a couple of months before, sadly, he took his own life, tragically. Sometimes they skip that part where it's like he's a beloved on-air personality and he took his own life, but there's a whole middle. Anyways, we'll find out when this thing comes out how truthful it is.

Yeah. Well, it's, yeah. Well, and whether it feeds into their larger story, right? Yes. Is it a propaganda machine for this, you know, I want to...

Is it an infomercial or is it a true... I personally don't like it when I find out that this documentary, like, I don't know, there's one my wife watched recently on J-Lo

and it's like produced by J-Lo's company or whatever. I'm like, you know, you're getting like, this is essentially like a big, you know, infomercial. They're going to gloss over things and you know how it is. Well, that's the price of access with a documentary, right? If you look at these docs,

when they have extensive interviews and they get the archives, you end up giving over editorial control. It's a real problem. Are you working on a Yorkville coffeehouse documentary? I guess this is my awkward way of getting you to tell me about this research you've been doing into the music scene of the Yorkville neighborhoods in the 50s and 60s. Well, I got interested in this when I was asked to do a course on the Toronto Sound for Hot Docs Theatre, Curious Minds. And I realized that I didn't know very much. So I started,

first thing, of course, is I read Nicholas Jennings' book, Before the Gold Rush, which is the definitive book, came out in 1997. And there wasn't a whole lot else on it. And I wanted more. So I started, I needed to map out what happened in Yorkville and where these coffee houses were so that I could visit the site and get a sense of how many there were and how close together there were. And I was really looking for that hard info. And so I started getting into city directories and it just became an obsession and archives and started doing interviews and at first I was just thinking that I was going to do a walking tour which I did develop a

Yorkville walking tour okay now I have I just need to ask you because he's also an FOTM because Johnny Dovercourt does something exactly like that uh you two ever in cahoots on any of this if you're uh are you just no we're doing the same thing we met recently at the launch of uh any night of the week at the horseshoe and uh great guy and i'd love to work with him actually talking you know he's done great stuff on music scenes but um his book is when he talks about yorkville in book, it's pretty much completely dependent on Nicholas Jennings' work. And so I've uncovered, obviously I've uncovered other things in the past four years of working on this book. And so it's, anyway, what had started out really as just

curiosity and a course and a walking tour is now I realize it should be a book. And so I've done over a hundred interviews now and tons of documentary research and I'm working on it now. Okay. Now here's an order for you. Well, before I give you the order.

So when I think of the Yorkville, you know, coffee house district in the fifties and sixties, I think a cannabis man. I'm just thinking of cannabis right now. So I'm just going to shout out. See what I'm doing here, Mike? Slick, slick.

Can a cabana, because they will not be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories. And they have over 140 locations across this fine country where cannabis is legal, Mike. Who would have thunk it? I know. Did you know this day would ever come? Well, you know, that was a big cudgel that the cops used against the Yorkville hippies was the fear of arrest and very real jail time

that you would get for possession. So many lives ruined by these laws. And so I'm so relieved to see in my lifetime some sanity prevail about these laws. And so I'm so relieved to see in my lifetime some sanity prevail about these laws. I was talking to this guy, Joe Goldrub is his name. He actually, his name is Joe Davis. And then he took his wife's name and it became, which is cool. I think it's cool. Dudes are now taking their wives' names. What an age we live in. I love it. Okay. Heck, I should do that. Dudes are now taking their wives' names. What an age we live in.

I love it. Okay. Heck, I should do that. Okay. Is it too late? No, it's never too late. Come on. Mike fixes my car, says Landsberg.

What's in a name? Take her first name. Go all the way. Yes. Thank you. All this branding I've done. I've done branding on Toronto Mike. I can't just be Toronto Monica here all of a sudden here.

Dr. Monica. Dr. Toronto Monica. I'm going to call and let me type, let me type that in, type that in here. Um, so Joe Goldrub, cause sometimes I do the tangent and I actually never come back and I'll be, Oh Mike,

you know, you forgot to go back there. I've learned a lot in 1192 episodes. He's telling me, uh, there are still, I can't remember the number. There's still so many people in our jail system for possession charges of cannabis.

Yes. Like, you want to get my blood boiling. My blood is now boiling because when will we expunge these criminal records for possession of cannabis? It's absolutely ridiculous. Yeah, they should all be expunged, and anybody who is currently serving time should be released 100 and you know they you mentioned what they did to the hippies well imagine what

they did to racialize canadians oh like this is the this is the thing you know they they would use this uh it would affect although i was chatting with my buddy i don't know i won't name him but even though he and his podcast did did tell don't know, I won't name him, but even though his podcast did tell this story, but I still won't name him, but he's a blue-eyed white guy. And he was telling about how he had a joint, and this is about 15 years ago. He was smoking a joint downtown Toronto.

Cops picked him up and arrested him. Like, yeah, blue-eyed white guy, because we were talking about how it's so unfair, and he's like, yes, it is unfair how this overly affects racialized Canadians. And it's awful. And we need to expunge these records yesterday. And he's like,

but it also affected a few blue-eyed white guys. So yes, enough is enough. Now that cannabis is rightfully legal, as it always should have been, let's expunge these records yesterday. Yeah, agreed. We agree. I love it when we agree here.

That's why you're here. Maybe I'll get you on here. How far away did you come from here? Whereabouts do you live? Is it a long commute for you to get here? No, no. I just live downtown, and we're down at the DVP and Queen. So in the Near East.

Is that near the Humane Society? It is near. Just across the bridge from the Humane Society. Shout out to River Street. Capital T, that rhymes. Okay, sorry. All right. So shout out to Canna Cabana.

And now I want you to, if you don't mind, I'm going to drink my beer and listen. I might interrupt you and ask a question here and there, but can you give us a little background here on all this great work you're doing with the Yorkville scene? I just want to hear some of it. Just bury me in a little Toronto music history from the 50s and 60s. Well, the question for me about Yorkville, people know that Joni Mitchell passed through Yorkville, Neil Young, John Kay and the Sparrows came together and would form Steppenwolf.

David Clayton Thomas was transformed by his time there, Gordon Lightfoot, Ian and Sylvia. And people know that it was this incredible mecca of music in the 1960s, but I wanted to know why Yorkville? Why was it that, why were all those coffee houses concentrated in that area? And so that's what I've been chasing for the past four years, trying to figure out the why and what happened. years trying to figure out the why and what happened. Okay. Before we get to the why, and I'll just point out, I believe when I talked to Barry Whitkin about the Purple Onion, it was Joni Anderson who passed through. So she was Joni Anderson, I believe, at that point, which is pretty amazing. He also says, what's the Buffy song, The Universal Soldier?

That's the one. She wrote it at the Purple Onion. Partly, yeah. She's the one. She wrote it at the Purple Onion. Partly, yeah. She wrote it partly in the green room at the Purple Onion. Wow. Okay. Yeah. And they're only getting a wall.

Come on, Mike. Okay. If that. If that. Can you name, now, Purple Onion wasn't, obviously, there's some bigger venues there that get even name-checked in Neil Young's song, Ambulance Blues, I think. I can't remember. You'll tell me, what are the significant Yorkville venues of this period?

Well, the most famous is definitely the Riverboat, which was opened in late 1964 by Bernie and Patty Fiedler. And that was the longest-lasting, too. It was open until 1978, which is long after the other ones had gone out of business. So that's the big one. And then the Purple Onion, before the riverboat came on the scene,

the Purple Onion was the marquee folk venue in Yorkville and they got all the American acts coming up and that was the place. The penny farthing was also a really important one. That was a John and Marilyn McHugh. And they had earlier had another place called the half beat where Joni played her first week long gig in October, 64 and John K played solo and Mendelssohn Joe.

And, you know, so there was also up just outside of the boundaries of Yorkville proper, just north of Avenue and Davenport was the Village Corner. And that was where Ian and Sylvia really cut their teeth as performers. Gordon Lightfoot recorded a live album there with the Two Tones. Gordon Lightfoot recorded a live album there with the Two Tones, and that was a real hotbed of traditional folk music, and that place was actually 1955, and it was on Bloor Street, just across from Bel Air, and it was called the Concerto Cafe, and they had live folk music there. And then there was on Avenue Road, the La Coterie, also that was the first sort of Yorkville proper one.

And all of this happens against the background of the residents of Yorkville proper one. And all of this happens against the background of the residents of Yorkville not wanting any of this to happen. And having had a bylaw put in place called the Fishley Bylaw that outlawed only certain types of businesses to open within the boundaries of Yorkville, which didn't include taverns. So no taverns were allowed. That was the goal, but they got one little exception for coffee houses. Wow. And that's why it's all coffee houses. Wow.

And, and I did not know that. Well, it's never been, it's never been said. This is why you're here. Cause my mind is blown. But wait,

do we know how Joe Mendelsohn, Mendelsohn Joe is doing? I feel like, uh, I haven't heard from this guy in a long time. Well, I spoke to him a few months ago and we corresponded actually. He loves letter writing. So we sent a few letters back and forth,

which was pretty memorable. And, you know, he's having some health challenges, but yeah. And he's no longer in the city. Like he's moved outside the city right yeah he's in i think emsdale is the name of the the town what a fixture i mean growing up like literally i used to work at the gallery of mall and i would bike davenport or whatever i'd be bike or dupont i'd be biking in davenport but you know you just see him kind of strolling along the

street like he just there's Mendelssohn Joe. Like he's just a part of like the city's fabric. Absolutely. And so he was there in Yorkville as a solo blues singer, country blues. And he also taught guitar lessons for a while. And yeah. And then of course formed Mainline and so on.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just getting older and shaking my fist at the cloud or whatever. But it feels like we're these characters. I don't know. There was always these characters when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s, just Toronto characters.

Now you have Rubber Boots Guy. You know what I mean? The Rubber Boots Guy. And the sad story, because in this neighborhood, Zanta is still a thing thing but not a happy thing so it's i won't even talk about it but but you yeah it was just you know i mean i told this when moe berg came over i'm like he's another guy i'll be biking along dupont or davenport or whatever it

was because i used to live at charles street and young when i would bike to the to dufferin and dupont and uh there's moe berg strolling along hey moe you know youPont. And there's Moe Berg strolling along. Hey, Moe! You just shout him out. There's Moe Berg. He's very recognizable. You don't mistake Moe Berg sighting. I love these Toronto characters.

One was Ben Kerr. Oh my god, Young and Bluer Subway. Because I lived at Charles Street and Young's. Ben Kerr for mayor. And he god. Young and Bluer Subway. Because I lived at Charles Green Young. Right. Ben Kerr for mayor. And he has a big Yorkville connection too because his brother Colin ran a coffee house called

the Miner Bird. Yes. Which was the home of the Miner Birds. Of course he was the. Which I'm going to get to in a minute. The Miner Birds actually. I took a note right here. Yeah. And Ben wrote a song for the Miner Birds which they recorded called the Miner Birds Minerbirds song. They did a single with Rick James singing.

I just wrote the name Rick James down because I think that's an interesting little piece of history because now people are thinking super freak or whatever. But Rick James, Minerbirds, we got to get there. But Ben Kerr, kind of sad too. Sometimes because I would go i would that was my like local ttc station and everywhere at that time i didn't bike in the winters back then so once uh i think after halloween i like parked the bike and i became ttc guy until the spring looking back i'll just tell you now i'm pushing 50 here i did a, I had to pick something up right now at like Jarvis and Carlton.

So like to me, oh, I have to pick something up at Jarvis and Carlton. It's January 20. Oh, happy 21st birthday to my firstborn son, James. Oh, happy birthday, James. Happy birthday, James.

I got to make sure I get that on the public record here. Okay. 21st birthday. Wow. Okay. So I had, my wife says i need to pick something up at whatever it is the apartment complex at jarvis and uh in carlton like i don't have a moment

where i think about like oh do i drive do i jump on the ttc you know like i'm it doesn't matter that it's january 20 like my brain right now at this point in my life is 100% I'm biking there to pick it up. And that's what I did. And I biked there to pick it up. But it's almost like a switch because when I biked all the time as a teenager, for example, or a guy in his early 20s, I 100% would park that bike in some point in October when it got to like, you know, six, seven, eight degrees Celsius or something. I would park the bike and I'd be like, I'll get that bike again in the spring. It's just strange how you're

just, how you look at things. It's just, it's sort of like a filter. Like, it's just like literally you're going to hit a switch. Like, no, I bike in the winter now. Yeah. Anyway, this is nothing. This is how it goes on Toronto Mike. We're all over the place here. Why don't you tell us a bit about Rick James, Yorkville, minor birds. Give me, give that story.

And I know a lot of the diehards know this story, but I think there's some people listening who are going to be surprised to hear the super free guy has a Toronto connection. Yeah. So, well, Rick James was James Johnson Jr. from Buffalo. And he was,

he was in the Navy reserves and he was going to be called up for Vietnam. And so he decided to split and went AWOL. And apparently still wearing his sailor's uniform, showed up at the El Patio and he got up with the band, which was composed, it was a band that included Nick St. Nicholas on bass, who would later be in The Sparrows and in Steppenwolf. And so he got up with the band and sang, and they said, hey, come and join. And they called themselves the Sailor Boys.

And they played a little bit, I think, at the El Patio and maybe at the Devil's Den. And Colin Kerr, Ben's brother, heard them. And he had this coffee house, the Minor Bird, very gimmicky place. He was the first one to bring topless dancing to Toronto in 66. And he had the nude chef in the early seventies and the girl dancing in the window and everything. And he says, I'll manage you and sponsor you. You just have to call yourselves the Miner Birds because he was always promoting his Miner Bird, Raja. and he had taught this minor bird to say hello Ed Sullivan just in case they got on the show that's amazing and so he manages them and they become the minor birds

and he makes them sort of dress up like minor birds and they make this record and eventually they separate from him but keep the the name, the Miner Birds. They're now managed by John Craig Eaton, the son heir to the Eaton's fortune. Of course. Wow. He has a friend who does the day-to-day managing, a guy named Morley Shellman. Morley Shellman has some connections. The upshot is that the Minerbirds get a record deal with Motown.

And they go to Detroit and they record an album. But before they sign, the guitar player of the group doesn't like the contract and he quits the group. And so they're stuck for a guitar player and they recruit Neil Young. Wow. And so Neil Young is kicking around Yorkville.

He's come a few months earlier. His band has broken up. He's trying to make it as a folky. They say, take your squeaky voice and get out of here. He can't get arrested in Yorkville, but he gets this gig playing lead guitar in the Minerbirds and he records with them. But then there's the situation of the advance from the record company and Morley Shellman misappropriates the advance and has no money for Rick James. Rick James beats him up. And as revenge, Morley Shellman tells Motown that Rick James is a draft dodger. And they say, okay, we're canceling the release of this record. the draft Dodger, and they say, okay, we're canceling the release of this record.

And we want you to turn yourself in and, you know, pay, pay your punishment and then come back and we'll, we'll do something. And they did, you know, he did re-sign with Motown years later after a bunch of other stuff happened, but so he did and the Minerbirds broke up, and Minerbirds bassist Bruce Palmer and Neil Young get in Neil's hearse. They leave Avenue and Davenport with some friends, and they head to California and form the Buffalo Springfield. Wow. Okay.

For which I, even knowing that story, I love, I absolutely love that story. So one interesting fact, of course, that you just said there is that there is no Minor Birds album. Well, is there? Is it Blue Legs or something? I mean, they recorded an album.

But it's never, only two songs have come out, I believe. Okay, two songs. Yeah. Okay. So the single has been released as sort of a rarity box set thing, maybe 20 years ago. And it's great stuff.

But yeah, I understand that they recorded. In fact, I interviewed the drummer from the Minor Birds and he said that when they were there for the two weeks or whatever recording, not only were they recording their stuff, but they were being used as session players on other Motown tracks. And he doesn't know what other records he's on.

And the other members of the Minerbirds are on. He could be on a Tommy Chong record, right? Oh, yeah. Because I just had Ray Dawn Chong on. Bobby Taylor and the Vancouver's, yeah. Because this is a quick tangent. We'll come back, and then I'll go back to the tangent I was on when I talked about the biking,

because I was talking about Ben Kerr there, but I'll get back to that. But Ray Dawn Chong talks about how her dad, back to the tangent I was on when I talked about the biking because I was talking about Ben Kerr there but I'll go back to that but Radon Chong talks about how like her dad Tommy Chong with Motown she says this is of course the daughter of Tommy Chong that Tommy Chong

discovers the Jackson 5 yeah it wasn't Tommy but it was another member of Bobby Taylor and the Vancouver's who actually discovered the Jackson 5, but they said it was Diana Ross. Yes, right. And that's the way it was played, but that was the way it was sold. I forget his name, but it was a guy from Bobby Taylor and the Vancouver's.

Very, very interesting. So many interconnections. This is also interesting because we lost David Crosby yesterday. Yes. So, because there's the connection between Buffalo Springfield and, you know, it's, I mean, you're the musicologist, but Neil Young, I guess, the Miner Birds is like, that's what he does before. You mentioned him and Bruce Palmer. I think, yeah, they head west, go to California and that's Buffalo Springfield. Stephen Stills.

Yes. And Stephen Stills is the Stills of... In Crosby, Stills, and Nash. Yeah. And then, of course, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young.

Yep. Man. Yeah. You could just talk to me about all this. I would just listen to you talk about this for all night. But because I brought up

the whole biking thing, why did I bring the biking thing? Oh, yeah, I used to take the TDC all the time in the winter. And that means I was frequently in the Young Bloor station because I could walk from there to where I was living with my first wife.

And Ben Kerr would be seen on the reg going through the garbages and stuff. And it was kind of like, oh yeah, sort of like with Zanta. When you sort of look at things from a different perspective, not everything is sort of like polished and clean.

Like sometimes there's like, oh, you know, there's, you know, there's, it's like anybody, there's warts and all. Yeah. It's all part of the mosaic. No, there's some sad stories for sure. But that, yeah, that minor bird story is fantastic. Yeah.

Okay. So is there anyone else sort of like, I know we talked about Joni Mitchell, who was Joni Anderson when she played at the beginning. I guess Mitchell is a married, no, Mitchell is the husband's name. She got married to a Mitchell. Yeah.

So she met her husband at the Penny Farthing in the spring of 65. She was playing in the basement and he was playing on the main floor. And he was more of a marquee act, being kind of an established folk singer from Detroit. But it was his first time touring, I believe. And so he's playing upstairs. She's playing downstairs, I think with her friend, Vicki Taylor. And they meet and Vicki actually introduces them. And I understand that they were

engaged within 48 hours and married within a couple of months. And she moves to Detroit. And that move is decisive for her because it puts her on the U.S. folk circuit where people like Tom Rush and Judy Collins can be aware of her. I mean, Yorkville was fantastic, but it was a bit isolated as far as being close to the centers of power and being close to those people who can really help you. And so she found that in the U.S. Since we're talking about Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, and we're talking about Joni Mitchell, I'll just bring up Woodstock. Nothing to do with Toronto, of course, but Woodstock, right?

Because Woodstock happens in 69. And the two stories there, and you'll tell me if I'm wrong, because you're the musicologist, but there's the great documentary film about Woodstock, which we've all seen, because City TV used to play it all the time. I loved it when City TV would play the Woodstock doc. That was like when Mark Daly, no relation. Do people ever get disappointed?

Why don't you sound like, I thought you were Mark Daly. Where's your voice? You're Mike Daly. People always call me Mark. When they get my name wrong, it's always Mark. Yeah, because we're just, yeah, that's how we roll in Toronto, the voice. Yeah, we can't let go of Mark Daly. No, just this morning, Ann Romer sent me this breakfast television promo because David Onley just passed away.

And this is from 31 years ago or something. And the voiceover on it, of course, is Mark Daly because he's everywhere. Okay. But, so where the hell was I? Oh yeah, Woodstock. So apparently this Woodstock documentary, Neil Young said, you can't film me. There's something there

and you might not know it offhand, but where Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young were being filmed for this doc, but Neil wouldn't sign a release to be filmed. So you don't, you know, the songs you see in the doc from Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young are not like Neil, it's more Crosby, Stills, and Nash, and then you don't get to see any Neil in this doc.

Something like that. Yeah, I believe that's the case, that he refused for Neil reasons. And then meanwhile, you've got Joni Mitchell, who's not at Woodstock, even though she's singing about Woodstock at some point famously, but who should have been at Woodstock. But I think some management thought she'd be better served to be on some kind of a... Dick Cavett. Dick Cavett.

Yeah, and she could have done both, as it turned out, but they were worried because they were looking at the aerial shots, and they were worried that she wouldn't be able to get off the site in time to do this very important decav appearance. I think it was on the Monday or something. So she did that and then CSN was able to join her on that appearance.

And they had been there and she had not been there. Because the helicopter was, yeah. Yeah, but so seeing it from a distance she wrote that song right of course well she was dating steven stills do i have that maybe she was dating steven stills um i've never heard of her i've never heard of her dating steven stills but she did date david crosby and graham nash okay you know what that's my conflation and that's you you're right of course i'm getting my cs my CSNs. We talked about CFNY, now it's CSNY,

but, yeah, holy smokes. Okay. We're, we're really just shouting out Canadian grades here in their relation. So, amazing.

Any other, maybe any other mind blows, like, you know, I've taken up a whole hour, but I'm being very frank with you. Like if you had 15 minutes more of Toronto music music history i would shut up and listen like i i mean unless you want to hold on to it for a sequel but i'm just thoroughly enjoying the chat you know

there's so there's so much i i think that um the amazing thing about yorkville and and i think the reason why so many connections were made there and so many productive alliances were made there that's the thing that strikes me is how many people got the right people got connected there it was not a place to make it big but you could meet a person who would help get you there and that kept happening all the time. And it's always a story like I, I, I was playing, I went out on my break and I went next door and I walked in and there was this incredible person on stage and we got talking and we decided to put together a band. You know, there's so many stories like that. And it all has to do with this kind of ecosystem where there's a million

coffee houses all within a five minute walk. I mean, it's just an amazing thing to have a live music walkable district like that. And we really don't have that anymore in Toronto. We've got some great venues and we've got some exciting single venues, single venues, but the idea of being able to go to a corner and walk and just pop in to 15 or 20 coffee houses, all of which have live music, whether it's folk, jazz, rock, rhythm and blues. It's just, and it was that, it was the fact that, and why was that even allowed to happen? And it was that. It was the fact that, and why was that even allowed to happen? Because the rents were cheap and because they found this loophole in the bylaw, you know,

and there were no, there was very few places you could get a beer in Yorkville. Only the ones that were there before the bylaw came in in 1949. And the city, when they kind of realized their error, started cracking down, right? So around 65, when Yorkville starts getting really popular, it ends up really being a victim of its own success. And the city starts doing bylaw infractions, saying you're running a public hall here and that's not allowed, and fining them and the cops come out in force.

Leave it to city bureaucracy to kill a cool scene. and, you know, and fining them and the cops come out in force and that's really what kills. Leave it to city bureaucracy to kill a cool scene. Yeah, they were determined. We're talking about how many decades later. Well, you know, I've just been going back and watching some of the, there are documentaries like Flowers on a One-Way Street, the National Film Board documentary

about the hippie scene in Yorkville and their attempts, the hippies there trying to get just Yorkville closed to traffic. Youies, they're trying to get just Yorkville closed to traffic. You know, they were trying to, that was their big cause, you know, and the disgust with which the city officials speak of these hippies. And it's really that they have, they're just offended by the long hair. Like they're just disgusted by the long hair on these men and the idea that somebody didn't want to work.

Right. You know, like that was a, that was, that was a completely offensive notion. The idea that somebody, their, their goal in life was not to make as much money as possible. It was, it was such a foreign idea. Right. And that's that, it was just a, um, a visceral just a visceral hate that the adult world had for these young people. And they saw them as dirty, disgusting, and that Yorkville was a festering sore. One politician, Syl Apps, actually described it as a festering sore.

Is he a Maple Leaf great, Syl Apps? Yes. And you would come back to sports. It's always sports. Well, you know me in sports, right? It's never far away. I took a photo today. I should show you. Because I was at Carlton and Jarvis, so I was at Maple Leaf Gardens. And I took

a photo of my bike with Maple Leaf Gardens in the background. So shout out to Sill apps. You know, dude, oh my god. My goodness, goodness, goodness. Amazing. You know, dude, oh my God, my goodness, goodness, goodness. Amazing. You know, these bureaucrats and the city got their way because guys my age are always shocked to find out, you know, I'm not even that young a guy, but guys my age are always shocked to find out that Yorkville was like a cool hippie scene. Because all I know is that's where you go if you want to get like a $9,000 Chanel bag or something like that.

And you know, that, that element was always there in the daytime, you know, from the fifties, even before there were coffee houses on Yorkville, uh, and Cumberland,

there were boutiques and they were appealing to the Rosedale crowd. And it was, it was furriers and, uh, interior designers and art galleries. And it was a she-she shopping district. And then the coffee houses came in. And that was fine because they were at night and the boutiques were during the day.

But then when the hippies came in in 66, they were hanging out all day on the doorsteps of these boutiques. Smoking their dope. Smoking their dope and scaring away the ladies you know so that was a big problem too is that that the the night world and the day world collided amazing and that was unacceptable okay so david crosby yes you know rick james uh joni mitchell uh neil young just before we say goodbye and i'm going to play another cut from Shakespeare My Butt which I sometimes think might be like I know that Neil Young talks about

the riverboat in was it Ambulance Blues? There are definitely, which is really cool but I would say for Toronto references and as far as Toronto albums go, it's tough to beat Shakespeare My Butt from 1991. It really is, at least for Gen X, it's tough to beat Shakespeare, my butt for 1991. Like it really is like,

you know, at least for Gen X, it's a quintessential Toronto album. But so I always close every episode of Rosie and Greg, which we're going to do in a moment here. Any other names or any other stories on our way out that you, you know, if you want to share with us all,

because I find this riveting. Well, I would just add that, you know, we, we mentioned Joni Mitchell, but I, I, Because I find this riveting. mothers not writing any of her own songs. And she got to Yorkville and she made connections. She was supported by the community, but she also encountered resistance. And she got people who said, you can't do that song. I do that song. And so she had to write her own songs in response. And so the great, the songwriting legacy that we look at with Joni begins in Yorkville and at a time so amazing she's in a strange city she's pregnant she's alone right and um one of the one of the uh

great pleasures for me has been working on uh her story and speaking to people who knew her and reconstructing what happened uh with her in inonto it's an amazing story love it so much joni mitchell what a what a legend uh if you want to hear about like early days of joni out west in canada you know who your man is uh terry david mulligan oh yeah spent a lot of time with joni in those early days and uh he threatened to do a toronto mic episode about it and i might have to hit him up by the way he he was was there when they were like planning the Tears Are Not Enough 1985 charity single for Ethiopian famine relief.

So he's there with Bruce Allen and who was there? Jim Valance, that whole gang, that Vancouver gang. And Buffy St. Marie was supposed to be a part of Tears Are Not Enough and then I guess Bruce Allen gets a phone call. And he's taking this call. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he puts down the phone and he looks at Terry David Mulligan and he says, Buffy bailed.

And that term, Buffy bailed, I now use it all the time when somebody cancels. Oh, Mike Daly's under the weather? Buffy bailed. So shout out to Buffy St. Marie, Universal Soldier. Buffy Bales. So shout out to Buffy St. Marie, Universal Soldier partially written written at the Purple Onion and shout out to

Barry Witkin and his dad Andrew Witkin from Sticker U we miss Sticker U. Mike Daly you hit it out of the park with your debut here we're going to have to get you a sequel man you're going to have to come back I'm telling you absolutely anytime thanks Mike and that Cool, man. You're going to have to come back, I'm telling you. Absolutely. Anytime. Thanks, Mike.

And that brings us to the end of our 1,192nd show. I saved the best for 1192. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Mike, remind me of your Twitter handle. MikeDaily8. MikeDailyNumeric8. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta

is at Palma Pasta. You are getting a lasagna, Mike. Finally. Recycle My Electronics are at EPRA underscore Canada. Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH canna cabana or at canna cabana underscore and Sammy Cone he's a Winnipeg guy so he

wasn't part of the Toronto music scene and though he had to come here to get signed with Jake Gold but he was the drummer for the Watchmen and I love the Watchmen but he's also a hell of a real estate agent and if you have any real estate questions at all Sammy sammy.cone at properlyhomes.ca

or you can follow him on Twitter at Sammy Cone. Cone is K-O-H-N. See you all next week. Well, I've been told that there's a sucker

born every day. Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day. But I wonder who. Yeah, I wonder who. Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of gray. Because I know that's true. Yes, I do. I know it's true. Yeah, I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you?

I've been picking up trash And then putting down roads And they're broken stocks The class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar Just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn Because everything is coming up rosy and gray

Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine, it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy and green Well, I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you

Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow warms us today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away Because everything is rosy now Everything is rosy, yeah Everything is rosy now. Everything is rosy and everything is rosy and great.