Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Mike Schreiner Kicks Out the Jams: Toronto Mike'd #1193

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

In this 1193rd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Green Party of Ontario Leader and MPP for Guelph Mike Schreiner about the greenbelt, affordable housing and Ontario Place before he kicks out the jams. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 1193 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Canna Cabana. The lowest prices on cannabis. Guaranteed. Learn more at cannacabana.com.

And Sammy Cone Real Estate. Ask Sammy any real estate questions at sammy.cone at properlyhomes.ca. Joining me today, returning to Toronto, Mike, to kick out the jams, is Green Party of Ontario leader and MPP for Guelph, Mike Schreiner.

Welcome back, Mike. Hey, Toronto, Mike. Great to be back. And well, hopefully folks will enjoy a conversation with Guelph, Mike. Yeah, Guelph Mike. I was going to say, I love it when a Mike's on the program. My last guest, his name is Mike Daly.

He's a musicologist. He's got a PhD in musicology. That's a thing. And we had a good chat right off the top. Why are we Mikes instead of Michaels? So I must ask you right off the top, and if I did ask you this during your first visit, I apologize because I'm fascinated with Mike versus Michael.

But why are you a Mike and not a Michael? Well, my mom is very displeased about this because in her world, I'm Michael. But I went with Mike when I went to university because it was easier, quicker to say, and it rhymes with so many better things. It's like you can bike with Mike, hike with Mike. Like there's so many good things you can do like you can bike with Mike, hike with Mike. Like there's so many good things you can do with Mike. And it's much harder with Michael.

Did you have this, I had like a toy as a kid and it played this song. My name is Michael. I've got a nickel. I've got a nickel. I remember that. Yeah, I do remember that.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm gonna buy me all kinds of candy. That's what I'm gonna do. Like, yeah, I had Michael Landsberg on this program. I just told this story to Mike Daly. So the FOTMs listening are like, again, but Michael Landsberg, I asked him the famous Mike versus Michael question. And he said to me, Mike is the guy who fixes my car. Okay. Highly offensive. I wish I could fix a car, but that just made me

happier that I'm a Mike, a michael well i'll tell you i grew up in this little farm town and my grandpa's name was mike and so i was always michael so i could go to the bank and take money out of my parents account no ids nothing but i would have to be michael because if i said i'm mike schreiner they would be like well mike schreiner is much older than you like right we don't know what to do with this. Right. And remind me, this is not, where were you growing up again? I know, in fact, before we go any further,

if people listening want the A to Z, the life and times of Mike Schreiner, that's episode 1025. So that was your Toronto Mike debut, Mike. And I'm just going to read what I wrote then. In this 1025th episode of Toronto Mike, Mike is joined by Green Party of Ontario leader Mike Schreiner as they discuss what brought him to Canada, his dual citizenship, his move to politics, being elected MPP for Guelph,

Highway 413, 413, 413, I never know how we're supposed to say that, his mental health platform ending Tarion, decriminalizing drug use, passing Ontario's first ever green law and the jams he loves. So we touched on the jams that you love, but today we're actually going to,

after we catch up, and I want to talk to you about some important issues facing our province at this time. We are going to kick out not the normal 10. I'm just letting FOTMs know you're a very busy guy, so we're going to do this in two parts. So you're actually kicking out five jams you love, and we'll be getting to that shortly.

But remind me, where did you grow up again? So I grew up on a farm in rural western Kansas in a little town called Waukeene, Kansas, a population of about 1200 people and moved to Canada for love and never left. That's the best reason to move to Canada for love. It totally is. And when you, especially when you fall in love with the place. So it's like I moved here for love, fell in love with the place. I'm a happy guy. And look at you now. It's funny because you are, you know, the Green Party provincially has one member that was elected as an MPP,

and that is yourself. But I do look at you as the official opposition. Isn't that strange? I look towards you as the official opposition, even though the Green Party of Ontario has exactly one member in Parliament. I hear that often, and I think part of it is I'm willing to work across party lines, so I'm able to work with the other opposition parties, the NDP and the liberals.

And I think people appreciate the fact that I'm a real straight shooter when it comes to Queens Park. And when government deserves my support and a compliment, I'll give it to them. And when they don't, I'll give it to them as well. And I think people appreciate that. And I know that you converse regularly with FOTM Steve Pakin,

who's a regular on this program. He comes down here once in a while. Last time he was on, I told him, I said, there's Mike Schreiner, I said, we have so much respect for this man. I consider him official opposition. And again, only one member of your party. That'll be, maybe we can touch on that later.

Like, how do we get more Green Party of Ontario members elected as MPPs in this province? But we'll get to that later. But one member, meanwhile, the party that used to be in power before the current government, the Liberal Party of Ontario seems to be, they seem to need a strong leader. I always say, can't we like get the Liberal Party to adopt some of these green initiatives from the Green Party? And again, I hope Candace isn't listening over there. But we take Mike from the Green Party. You're the leader of the Liberal Party. And again, I hope Candace isn't listening over there, but we take Mike from the Green Party. You're the leader of the Liberal Party. Let's put you in power.

Well, you know what? You're not the first person who suggested that. And I actually saw Steve Pagan earlier today. We were both speaking at the same event. And Steve does remind me of the column he wrote last summer. But you know what? Right now, I'm looking to grow the Green Party. I'm looking to grow the Green Movement. I'm looking to grow the Green Movement.

And I think I have a specially important voice in the legislature right now, especially as the Ford government, you know, tries to open the green belt for development, is dismantling environmental protections. And I know you don't want to get into politics yet, so I'll leave it at that. Well, let's get into it now because I do want to kick out jams later. But, I mean, like I said, there's some, you know, hot-button issues we have to talk about. And you said the word green belt.

And I always think, okay, when you talk about green belt, which is so important, I really want to hear your take on this. But I always feel like sometimes it's like, oh, I don't really understand what the green, not me, myself, and not you, of course. But there are listeners who are like, I'm a little frightened of like, what is this green belt? Is it too late for me to get the 101? Would you mind like off the top, just tell people what is the green belt, why it's important, and then let's talk about how the green belt's being threatened by our current government. Yeah, so the green belt, and Ontario's green belt is the largest green belt in the world. Millions of acres that really stretch across the entire greater Toronto Hamilton area. And they go all the way north up to Tobermory following the spine of

the Niagara Escarpment. And this is vitally important land to protect. So it includes things like the Niagara Escarpment and the Oak Ridges Moraine, which are vital to helping protect us from flooding, cleaning our drinking water, just providing really important green space to protect species. But it also contains some critically important farmland. You know, Canada's best farmland is, you know, if you go up to the CN Tower on a nice sunny day and you look out, you're looking out at some of the best farmland in all of North America. And so it also protects the farmland that feeds us.

And, you know, it's under threat now because the Ford government is saying, hey, let's open it up to build more homes. But it makes absolutely no sense because even the government's own handpicked housing affordability task force has said, land is not the barrier to building more homes. We don't need to open the greenbelt for development. And this land is protected for a reason. It's the farmland that feeds us. It's the wetlands and the green space that clean our drinking water and protect us from flooding.

Okay, but Mike, if it's protected, how can it be suddenly endangered? Like, how weak was this protection? Well, obviously not strong enough. I mean, here's the reality. We live in a democratic society. And, you know, I would argue Doug Ford was only elected with 17.6% of the voting population actually voting for him. But because of the, you know, how our electoral system works, he has 100% of the power at Queen's Park. And he can bring forward legislation that opens the green bell for development and undermines those protections. And I can get into some details of how that negatively affects, especially the

viability of farming in this province. We'll do it because this is Toronto Mike. So, you know, you don't have your typical five to seven minutes here. We let it breathe a little bit. So bury me in some of these details. Well, let's look at the Dufferin Rouge Agricultural Preserve, which is land in the eastern GTA, right near the Rouge Valley National Park. Yes. So that is prime, prime farmland that was originally expropriated to be part of the Pickering Airport. And then when the airport didn't go through, the government sold that land back to farmers at way below market prices with the understanding that it would always be used for farming. And that is something I totally support. So now you've had developers buy some of that, what I'd call them land speculators, buy up some of that land at far

below the prices you would normally pay for land that's allowed to be developed. And they're pushing the government to say, hey, we want to build houses on this land. And with a stroke of a pen now, the Ford government is saying, oh, okay, you can build houses there. And these speculators are going to turn millions into billions. And so once you open the possibility of that up, that means you've created a speculative land bubble

throughout the green belt. And it is so hard for young, you talk to young people who want to go into farming. It is really hard to do because buying And it is so hard for young, you talk to young people who want to go into farming. It is really hard to do because buying farmland is so expensive and then you got to try to make a living. And once you inject land speculation for property development into that,

it even creates a bigger financial barrier to farming. Now, okay, these land speculators, are they buying up, you know, on the eve of this surprise? Like, I just wonder like, if there's anything shady going on here or if this is on the up and up. Well, it looks pretty shady to me, and I don't think it passes the smell test. Right.

And that's why we have an Auditor General investigation, an Integrity Commissioner investigation happening, and why people are calling for the OPP to investigate it. Here's the bottom line is the Premier clearly stated in 2018 when he was caught on video saying, hey, we're going to open the green belt for development. And people said, no way you're going to do that. And so the premier worried about not getting elected, said, hey, I will not open the green belt. I've heard you. I'm going to listen to you. Won't open the green belt.

I've documented about 20 times since then that either the premier or his housing minister has clearly and explicitly said promised we will not open the greenbelt for development now they're opening 15 parcels of greenbelt land for development over half of those parcels of land have been purchased since the premier made his promise not to open the greenbelt for development so who what developer in their right mind would buy land that they couldn't develop. It stinks. Totally stinks. Something's rotting in the state of Denmark and right here in River City. I'm going to break into song in a minute here.

Okay, Mike? Well, later we'll break into song, of course, together. Okay, so this is what I was just digging into, what exactly the government in Ontario has removed protection. So 7,400 acres of land has been withdrawn from the Greenbelt and this is

so if we've given this government a majority, we're pretty early in the run here and you can mention what percentage of the votes but we all know that's not the system here so he's got a majority government, Doug Ford. How can we stop this from happening? How can we ensure that that 7,400 acres

of land remains protected as our Greenbelt? One word, two words, people power. Like we literally need people to push back against this. The last time Doug Ford was going to open the Greenbelt for development in legislation in 2018, people pushed back. And a few months later, he withdrew schedules from the bill that would have opened the Greenbelt for development. So I'm telling people, continue with the pop-up protests. Continue putting up the signs. I mean, I'm seeing signs pop up all over the place saying, Doug Ford, keep your Greenbelt promise. Keep putting pressure on conservative MPPs. We have seen in the past that when this government feels the pressure from the public, and I would argue also put pressure on municipal

counselors as well, and have municipalities pass resolutions opposing the development of opening the greenbelt for development, it's going to take that kind of public pressure that's going to, is the only way I think we're going to be able to push back on what the Ford government's proposing. I'm glad you mentioned the municipal level here because last time I checked and you know, you know where you are now you're in southwest Toronto here. So Rouge Park is a long way off. But I did do this bike around the city of Toronto with my buddy Mark Carey a couple years back where we did the whole perimeter. And part of that route was through Rouge Park. And I was like, wow, like, you know, I'm very close to Hyde Park. I'm always in Hyde Park. But Hyde Park looks like a tiny little park next to that Rouge Park there.

So that's still Toronto. So where is John Tory in all this? Like, where is his super mayor voice on all of this? Well, you know what? You'll have to ask Mayor Tory that one. But I can tell you there's been a number of other municipalities coming out against us. And one of the concerns, and I was just at the Rural Ontario Municipal Association meetings over the last couple days, ROMA. And one of the things I was hearing from a lot of municipalities is because of the changes in Bill 23, which is the bill that's opening the green bell for development.

Right. There's also changes that are removing the ability of municipalities, including the city of Toronto, to charge development charges on developments. And those development charges pay for infrastructure that's needed for growth. So a lot of municipalities are saying, you know, hey, even if you open these lands for development, you're taking away the development charges. We need to purchase the infrastructure to develop this land and I would argue other land that would be more appropriate for development. So one of the things that might actually hold this up is the fact that municipalities may not even have the resources

to service the lands that the premier is proposing to open for development. You know, you got me fired up now, Mike, because later in this convo, before I get to the jam, I'm going to need the jams just to, you know, cool me down because we haven't even talked soon. I will be talking to you about Ontario Place. But if anyone's listening to Toronto Mic'd over the last few weeks, every chance I get, I'm talking about this. I had Ben Rayner over here recently. Ben still does the odd piece, actually, but he was a great writer with the Toronto Star.

does the odd piece actually but he was a great writer with the toronto star and you know he's you'll probably find him right now uh at ontario place at one of those uh one of the beaches on ontario place but we'll get to ontario place in a minute uh now that i'm all fired up but i want to talk to you about housing so i did hear you talking to fotm steve pakin uh i think you said something to the effect of that we can significantly expand housing supply within existing urban boundaries maybe you can elaborate on that since people seem to be pointing at housing as a reason significantly expand housing supply within existing urban boundaries. Maybe you can elaborate on that since people seem to be pointing at housing as a reason why Doug Ford needs to withdraw protection of the Greenbelt in its entirety. So Mike, one of the things I will agree with Doug Ford on, we have a housing affordability crisis.

We need more homes built in Ontario. But opening the greenbelt for development, I would argue is actually going to make it even worse. Because one, it's going to lead people to less affordable lifestyles, like long, expensive commutes. Two, I've already talked about how expensive it's going to be and may not even be possible for municipalities to provide the infrastructure for all this sprawl. And so what should we do? Let's build affordable communities. Let's build homes

where people actually want to live close to where they work. I've put forward two bills, actually discussed them with Steve Bacon just Monday evening on how we can do this. So one is let's get rid of exclusionary zoning and let's allow people as of right to build four plexes and four-story walk-up apartments in existing neighborhoods. Right now, in a place like the city of Toronto, you can tear down a bungalow and build a McMansion, right? You don't have to get any approvals for that. If you want to turn that bungalow into a triplex or a fourplex, you got to go through a lot of red tape. So I was touring a house in Kitchener, which is allowing this to happen. And somebody took a single family home, divided it into two

apartments, upstairs, downstairs, and then they built a tiny home on the property. And now three families are being housed where only one family was before. So that's one way that we can quickly, affordably ramp up housing supply and also do it in a way that's less expensive for municipalities because it's much less expensive to service that land. Transit works more affordably. They can use existing infrastructure like schools. This happened to be right next to a school, so easy access for the kids to get to school. So that's one way we can address the housing affordability crisis without having to develop the green belt. And I've got another bill that would allow mid-rise apartments. So think of, you know, major transportation corridors. So I

think, you know, Dundas. Let's look at Toronto. King, Queen, Dundas, you know, Bathurst, St. Clair. Let's keep moving north. Eglinton. Think of those major streets. If we allowed six to 11 story apartment buildings as of right, most of those right streets. If we allowed six to 11 story apartment buildings, as of right, most of those right now have, in some cases, even just one story commercial, sometimes most two story. So if we had six to 11 story, we got some residential on top, retail on the main, on the main first, second floor, let's say, that's another quick way we can quickly ramp up affordable housing supply, making better use of existing infrastructure, in this case, particularly transit infrastructure,

build more livable, affordable communities, help people live close to where they work so they don't have these long, expensive commutes. To me, it's a win for our economy. It's a win for people's own personal finances. It's a win for the municipalities because it costs less money. And we're taking major steps to addressing the housing affordability crisis. And we don't have to pave over the farmland that feeds us, the green space that our families love to go spend time in, and that also protects us from flooding and cleans our drinking water. Stop making so much sense. There's no room for that anymore. It's in 2023. So sprawl is not the answer go ahead what are you

gonna say there oh you've been looking at twitter too much i have a few people saying like can we just have more politicians like mike schreiner cutting through the bs and just being honest with some like straightforward solutions and and i think we need more of that in politics and i would say that i don't agree with everything that the premier's hand-picked um housing affordability task force has said but a couple things i do agree with them that I don't agree with everything that the Premier's handpicked Housing Affordability Task Force has said. But a couple of things I do agree with them. One, we don't need additional land to address a housing affordability crisis. We do not need to open the Greenbelt for development.

And two, we can make some simple changes like I'm proposing with bills 44 and 45 that would make it so much easier for us to quickly ramp up housing supply and avoid this false choice of tall and sprawl. So tell me this, as leader of the Ontario Green Party, who are you again? Just kidding. How do you get these bills into law? How can that happen when Doug Ford's progressive conservative party has this massive majority? Yeah, that's a great question, and it's not an easy project. But I have been able to pass two private members bills. So one I did in collaboration with a member of the conservative

caucus, Lauren Coe. And just working across party lines, we passed a bill to help electric vehicle drivers. So I thought that was a good thing for, you know, affordable transportation and climate action. Right. And I've also was a part of a team of four MPPs, the first bill in Ontario history, co-sponsored by members of all four political parties to turn the month, to declare the month of August, Emancipation Month. And so it's possible. So the way I am pitching this to the other parties is in the last provincial election, one thing that I think all four parties agreed on was that we have to increase housing supply and we have to eliminate exclusionary zoning. That's what these bills do,

and I'm challenging all the other parties to get behind them. Last time we spoke was remote. You were not actually here in the TMDS studio. So welcome here to the TMDS studio. It's good to have you in person. I could reach out and grab your tie there if I wish. It's good to see you. Awesome. And last time we spoke, I actually, it's on hiatus now because she won this election, but I produced Diane Sachs' podcast, Green Economy Heroes. And Diane was running for your party and tough, tough sledding, as we say, and she did not

win. But then she had that sort of that momentum going, I guess, and she decided to run municipally and she did win like a squeaker. I don't know when they call that thing, four in the morning or something, but she is now a member of city council. So I'm literally, there's no point to this except to update everybody on something we talked about last time you were on and that Diane Sachs is now a member of city council in the city of Toronto. Yeah, I think it's great. I mean, it was obviously disappointing that Diane wasn't elected to the Ontario legislature because I think her strong voice around, you know, how do we build a climate economy in Ontario that, you know, reduces climate pollution to meet our obligations and also sets Ontario up to create new jobs and more prosperity in the fast growing climate economy is much needed in Ontario. But thank goodness that voice is at the city of Toronto.

And I think Diane's going to make a fantastic Toronto City Councillor. And, you know, I would say that, you know, in University of Rosedale, where she ran, you know, she doubled the green vote, which was, you know, I think a significant accomplishment. It didn't get her over the top, but it certainly provided the momentum for her to go into the municipal election and win. Yeah, without a doubt there. So congrats again to my friend and one-time client,

Diane Sachs. And she's so busy there, of course. I almost said at Queen's Park, but she's at City Hall. But she's so busy there that we had to pause her podcast. But maybe one day we'll get that going again because it was really strong. It was really a great podcast spotlighting green economy heroes in this country. Okay, so you and I agree on a lot of things, Mike, not just because we're both Mikes, but we've got to protect the permanence of the Greenbelt in its entirety. Sprawl's not the answer for housing. By the way, in your model there of the bills and kind of, you know,

those triplexes and those four-family homes that are like kind of sprinkled here and there and we should have more of those, Like that also makes the car optional. Like I've been on this and I don't, I don't own a car, but my wife does. And so, which means I do actually get to jump in it from taking the kid to hockey or something. But I've been trying to talk her into like when that car dies, a natural death, we don't need to replace that automobile. Like we don't need a car in 2023. We live in Toronto. Yeah.

Well, I would say that's one of the great things about living in Toronto, a little tougher in Guelph where I live. So I have an electric car, but I still will tell you that the greenest form of transportation is walking and cycling and then taking public transit. And then, you know,

if you need to, you have an electric car like I have. But one of the great things about living in a place like Toronto, where we can build livable, affordable communities that have the density that support high quality transit, and then can save families tons of money. They're not have to own a car and you'll able to access,

you know, work and the services and shopping, schools, the things you need within a 15-minute walk, bike ride, or transit ride. To me, that's a great way to live. Agreed, absolutely. Now here, I mentioned my blood was boiling on a few issues, not just the green belt, but here's the other one.

I'm going to read a tweet I tweeted. Speaking of Twitter, I tweeted this, I think, last week, and it got quite a bit of engagement. There's nothing new in this tweet. I'm just putting it all together and reminding people that this is the case. Here's what I wrote. spa with underground parking for more than 2,000 vehicles, a project that would require nearly 850 trees to be cut down. Oh, and it will cost around three, and apparently my number was low because I pulled it out of a CBC article that might be like a titch dated at this point, but I wrote in the tweet, it will cost around $350 million of taxpayer money. Mike, talk to me about Ontario Place. money. Mike, talk to me about Ontario Place. How can we stop the private water park and spa on our space that is so important to me personally, but to Ontarians, it's waterfront property in Toronto

that belongs to the people. Talk to me about this. Yeah, this is something that's just so outrageous what Doug Ford is proposing. And it's interesting because I was telling you I was at Roma yesterday and today. Yeah. Before I came here, I stopped at Ontario Place just to talk with some people, film some videos about just the importance of protecting this public space. And I can tell you, you know, when Ontario Place was first built, it was built for the people of Ontario, for all Ontarians, old and young, families to enjoy the waterfront. My two daughters, I can't tell you how many times I've taken them to Ontario Place over the years.

And so I think Ontario Place revitalization should be about the public good, the public benefit. Let's create a huge waterfront park that is accessible to people, that highlights the recreational and cultural opportunities that exist here in Toronto. And for Doug Ford to come in and say, hey, we're going to essentially give this public land

to private corporations to build a mega spa and a huge parking lot makes absolutely no sense to me at all. Let me interrupt you. I just did, so you can't stop me. But I don't even understand why. Like, why is there a private business going on this land? I mean, why can't they go somewhere else? I don't really understand why.

I did hear something. Someone floated some idea recently that I thought we could all get behind, which is like moving the Science Centre to Ontario Place or something like that. But I don't understand why a private spa is even an option on this public land. I don't get it.

I don't get it. it yeah that makes no sense to me i would much rather see the science center there than a private spa i'm sorry there's like lots of other private land out there that private people own that could be used for spas why we would take prime prime toronto waterfront a jewel of a location location and turn it over to a private corporation to then have us have to spend money to access our own public lands makes no sense to me at all. So how do we, again, I kind of can guess the answer, but I got to ask you right now, because I already told Ben Rayner that, and we're ready to chain ourselves to the sinosphere. Okay. That's where we're at here. Other than barking about it on

Toronto Mike and tweeting about it and writing about it on torontomike.com, all of which I've been doing, how the heck do we stop this from happening? This proposal is apparently under review as we speak. Again, it's going to be about applying pressure on conservative MPPs. You know what? You've, you've got the NDP liberals and greens all on side. We think this proposal makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but you're going to have to put pressure on conservative MPPs. I mean, you have some right here in your backyard. That's true. So you know what you're going to, because what needs to happen is they need to go back to their caucus meetings and say to the premier that we're getting hammered

on this issue. My residents are angry. They're frustrated. They don't want to see us take this public asset and turn it over to a private corporation, which is going to charge them money to access their own land. It's going to take that kind of pressure. And, you know, I would say organize, organize, organize. And worst comes to worst,

I can chain myself to the Sinisfair. And if worst comes to worst, you can chain yourself to the Sinisfair. Will you join me? I need you on the right. You, me, and Ben Rayner. There Sinosphere. And if worse comes to worse, you can chain yourself to the Sinosphere. Will you join me? I mean, on the right, are you, me and Ben Rayner? There you go. The trifecta is complete. And that, okay, so in the $350,000 of

taxpayer money, I mean, we've addressed it. It doesn't make sense. It's all said and done. So, I just, this one also does not pass my sniff test. Like, it just stinks. Well, it feels like there's a common theme happening here with the Greenbelt, Ontario Place. I would argue the premier's desire to privatize health care delivery all has a common theme.

Public money that should be in public land that should be there for the public good being transferred to a handful of people to maximize private good, private interests. And so I would say, you know, as we head into the next election, and unfortunately, you know, it's three years away, so we have a ways to go, is we need to elect a government that's going to put the public interest and public good ahead of the interest of a handful of private interests. Okay, Mike, I'm with you on this and always interested in what you have to say. And now that I'm all riled up, do you think maybe we could just kick out a few jams here? If anything, of course, political comes to mind while we chat about this music,

I want you to spit it into that microphone because I want to hear it. Because like I said, you're making a lot of sense here. But are you ready to kick out the jams? Yeah, I'm good with that though. I'll have to warn you. Most of my jams have a political theme. So I don't know if you're going to relax anymore. I may get you even more riled up.

But at least some beautiful music while I'm getting riled up here. In fact, before I kick out the first jam, because you're absolutely right, I know exactly where this first jam is going and I love this song and I love this artist. I just want to thank you for coming here today with a few quick gifts for coming. And hopefully, again, if this violates any integrity laws,

you can refuse it because I know you're a man of principle. But there is a large lasagna for you frozen in my freezer right now from palma pasta and that's a family run business in ontario so the pachucci family owns and operates palma pasta they have four locations mississauga and oakville so we love to support them and they want to you know feed you that sounds fantastic and uh coming from a city that is uh has a rich Italian-Canadian history, I love pasta.

Lasagna, I mean, I love pasta too. Italian food is my favorite. I think if I had to pick what's my favorite food, I think it's Italian food. And I think lasagna might be number one of a bullet. I just think lasagna is delicious. And I've been told by many people, in fact, Sean McAuliffe tweeted at me today,

speaking of people who maybe I'll get him to help, he'll chain himself to that Cinesphere with Ben and I, I think. I think Sean's passionate about that too. But he said the best lasagna he's ever had, that came from a store. So I'm looking forward to your review there. Okay. Looking forward to providing it to you. And speaking of delicious stuff from

independent family-run businesses in Ontario, the Bullet family owns Great Lakes Brewery. They're here in Southern Etobicoke. And I have some fresh craft beer for you, Mike. You can take that back to Guelph. I'd love to take it back to Guelph. And I can tell you the folks from Great Lakes Brewery

have been to Queen's Park many a times, had great conversations with them. And I love supporting local food and beverage. And so thank you. These are beautiful. So local food and beverage but not a food and beverage but local. In fact, hyper local because they're at 14th and Lakeshore here. Ridley Funeral Home have been pillars

of this community since 1921. Brad Jones and his family own and operate and Brad Jones, funeral director there. I also produce his podcast, Life's Undertaking. You never know Mike when you have to measure something, okay? So this is a handy measuring tape just so you're never caught.

I've got to measure that console, see if it fits in my trunk or whatever. That's courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home. Perfect. Well, I appreciate that. And the fact that it's green is even better. So proudly carry that measuring tape around. And I think you're probably in under the gift limits from

for the integrity commissioner what did you know by offhand you know does candace know what is that a dollar amount uh no one knows but it's definitely it's probably like 2500 maybe i'm making that up much lower than that you're definitely making that i don't have the number i don't have the number in front of me right now but uh you know what i am constantly checking with the integrity commissioner on almost everything i do because i want to make sure that you know what? I am constantly checking with the integrity commissioner on almost everything I do because I want to make sure that, you know, I do things in a way that's, that is ethical and full of integrity. And I'm glad that we have an office like that at Queens Park to just make sure we all do

our jobs in the public interest. Because you're happy to buy your own Great Lakes beer because it's available across this province and LCBOs and even some grocery stores now. So yeah, shout out to Great Lakes. And since you're from the Green Party, just before I kick out this first jam, in fact, I'm going to say this statement and then I'm going to kick out your first jam.

Speaking of green, Canna Cabana will not be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories. And they have over 140 locations across this country. Shout out to canna cabana if they blow a hole in my backyard everyone is gonna run away and the creeks won't flow to the great lake below will the water in the well still be okay? If they blow a hole in the backbone, the one that runs across the muscles of the land,

we might get a load of stone for the road, but I don't know how much longer we can stand We'll need to build some new apartments And I know we're gonna have to fix the roads But if we blow another hole in the escarpment The wild ones won't have anywhere to go. You know, I'm already calming down, Mike, because this is the beautiful dulcet tones of Sarah Harmer. Escarpment Blues.

Talk to me about Escarpment Blues. Well, first of all, I'm getting more emotional than I was before every time I listened to that song. I love the Niagara Escarpment Blues. Well, first of all, I'm getting more emotional than I was before every time I listened to that song. I love the Niagara Escarpment. It's one of my favorite places to go. My family, we spend hours and hours of our lives hiking the Escarpment and just enjoying it.

I think it's one of the treasures of Southern Ontario. And to think that, you know, we have a government right now that doesn't respect it. And it just highlights just the importance of Sarah Harmer's voice and her activism. And I was told, I didn't get a chance to see her, I was told that at the Greenbelt rally at Roma yesterday that Sarah Harmer was there. Wow, she's always been engaged on these issues. I mean, I go way back to when I I'd see the Tragically Hip at Fort York

and it would be bulldog-powered energy and then Sarah Harmer, of course, would be on those bills and Escarpment Blues. Yeah, a beautiful voice, but this is a, listen to the words, it does make you quite emotional and the Escarpment is one of our jewels. Absolutely.

Have you ever seen Sarah Harmer live? Oh, many a times. I'm an annual volunteer at Hillside. Sarah's played there and I'll give Sarah credit. We hired her to play

a big event that I put on right before the 2018 election that David Suzuki was at and Sarah Harmer, Joni Narita, Alicia real played there. And it was fantastic.

Like we have, we filled, we filled the largest event space in Guelph, uh, as a rally to, you know, support our environment. And,

you know, Sarah played a big role in that. What is the, uh, largest venue of that nature in Guelph? Shout it out. Yeah. So it's the Woodlawn Centre.

And I think we had, I think, probably close to a thousand people there, which, you know, is a pretty good-sized rally for somebody at that time who had never been elected. And I think it just showed the excitement and the movement that we had going into that election. And I think we inspired a number of people who want to bring in the kinds of protections

for the places we love, like the escarpment. I wanted to shout out Ian Service, a good FOTM helps of this podcast, and he's in Guelph. We're going to let Sarah take us to Jam 2 here. We are now at Upper Session Road Something's taking place in the world I believe in Peace for you and peace for me No one is an enemy We can be the leaders of change

The One The one, the one, the power of the one. Nothing shall I need in the world to make a difference. Talk to me about Keith and Renee. This is the one. Yeah, this is a song that I was introduced to by David Suzuki's Playlist for the one. Yeah, this is a song that I was introduced to by David Suzuki's Playlist for the Planet. As you can probably recognize, I love folk music. I love country. I love outlaw country in particular. I think this combines

the musical notes of both and talks about how each one of us can make a difference and make the planet a better place. Sometimes I use it to fire myself up at Queens Park because I'm the only green hippie bee there. Yeah. I didn't know this jam until I saw it on your list and I was listening to it last night. The one Keith and Renee. I know nothing about Keith and Renee.

Do you have any info about them or you just dig the jam? No. Country Duo from Manitoba and a lot of good tunes. And, you know, this song has always, always spoken to me. But they've got a lot of other good jams as well. Hey, from Manitoba. Okay, now I need to look out for Keith and Renee. And this is the one.

David Suzuki. How's he do? I mean, I think that guy's incredible. And you look at just his longevity and what he's meant to this country. He only recently stopped hosting The Nature of Things. How friendly are you with David Suzuki?

Well, you know, obviously, tons of people know David Suzuki. Well, you know, obviously tons of people know David Suzuki. So, you know, I just, I find David to be inspiring. And I think inspiring for many people who, you know, care about this planet we call home and who recognize the urgent need to take climate action. And David has just been such a fierce advocate and a tireless, tireless champion. And I think, you know, through the nature of things, actually introduced a lot of the natural world to people. And I think for people to really want to protect this place, they have to experience it, love it, and appreciate it. And David has spent his whole career providing that for people. Before we kick out your third jam, which uh you know something a little different but again i

wasn't particularly familiar with it and then i was listening to it last night and i absolutely love this third jam we're about to kick out but can you just help me understand your process here like when you're you're gonna kick out five jams like do you go on to your uh your playlist and you start picking out jams like what is the process for you to give me five because normally people give me 10 but uh we're doing like five because the next time uh you want to drop by we'll do another five maybe that'll be like the deal but like how did you come up with these five songs well i mean first of all 10 songs probably would have been easier than five because it was harder to cut it down to five but uh you know i looked at my playlist i looked at some i like songs that i listen to a

lot songs that inspire me uh and you'll probably guess, you know, the types of music I like are, I like folk music. I like bluegrass. I like outlaw country. I like R&B. I like a bit of hip hop. And so it's all these songs kind of are a combination of all of those. And they speak to me and, you know, i think reflect my values and my musical interests at the same time okay here's one some of those genres mashing up here let's listen to freedom for years for decades for centuries we have struggled and fought and bled and died for this. What we ain't gonna do is wait. Last night I saw a bright red comet in the sky.

I asked for its purpose and it gave me a reply. It said, soon come the day master dies, but first you must prepare. Keep our eyes on the prize through the beat of the drum, the light of fire we decide to be as free as a bird when it flies so we ready every axe sharpen every knife get our people inside ready and willing to take a life there'll be none worth saving soon done slaving but now we must prepare as usual while we make it our plan to reach the promised land of liberation breaking the chains before the beast them awaken watching the houses ablaze before they cave in no more Will I please to the sky be forsaken all praises do there be much celebration?

Plantation will be gone by the days Gonna take this axe in your back I ain't gonna wait no more to get this freedom. I ain't gonna wait no more to get this freedom. Wow, Gangsta Grass. Freedom. All right, talk to me about this jam, Mike. Yeah, so Gangsta Grass is a band that I was introduced to

at the Hillside Music Festival in Guelph. If you've ever been, you've got to be there. It's one of the best music festivals in Ontario. I love bluegrass, and I've just never heard, like, rap and bluegrass mash together, like, in the way that gangsta grass does it and i think it speaks to me it speaks to you know i mean bluegrass is like appellation music right so

poor white folk music and rap is like urban black music and bringing the two together i think says a lot about how we can make this world a better place for everyone. This is an anthem to freedom, emancipation, slave revolts, the civil rights movement, really the history of black liberation in North America. And so as somebody who co-sponsored and helped spearhead the Emancipation Month Act, this is a song that just kind of helps inspire the work I do around racial justice.

And it's catchy AF, Mike. I'm telling you. I love it when genres mash up like this. Like, I'm a big fan. You know, I was just yesterday, I was having a chat with some FOTMs about Anthrax. Okay, the rock band, the hard rock band. And of course, the highlight of Anthrax was mashing up with Public Enemy on Bring the Noise. Like, it's like, yeah, let me, like peanut butter and chocolate.

This is good together here. I'm digging this Gangsta Grass. Yeah, and again, they've got a lot of good music. This is my favorite, but a lot of good tunes. Okay, now we've got to dive into the Gangsta Grass catalog, of course. My son, who's now, he's about to turn nine actually uh my third born he uh he was a massive fan of that uh speaking of mashups uh little nas x with billy ray cyrus old town road which uh a little uh indie hit maybe no yeah which is a massive number one hit of

course but uh that sounded great too you know when you put some billy ray cyrus in with your uh your your hip-hop i absolutely agree and i'm a big fan as well okay no argument there uh and i will say bluegrass which i started loving like some other people i'm sure when i saw a little coen brothers movie called oh brother where art thou and i'm like oh my god that music and then I got the soundtrack I don't know how many million people did and it was like I love this bluegrass music that was quite a moment for bluegrass reaching us normies

yeah, absolutely you can tell I like strings most of my music really, the strings dominate okay, in fact you're out outlaw country. Let's kick out this jam people know and love. Let's kick it.

Let's kick it. Well, you wonder why I always dress in black. Why you never see bright colors on my back and why does my appearance seem to have a somber tone well there's a reason for the things that I have on

I wear the black for the poor and the beaten down living in the hopeless hungry side of town I wear it for the prisoner who has long paid for his crime but is there because

he's a victim of the time I wear the black for those who've never read or listened to the words that Jesus said about the road to happiness through love and charity, why you think

he's talking straight to you and me well we're doing mighty fine I do suppose in our streak of lightning cars and fancy clothes But just so we're reminded Of the ones who are held back

Up front there ought to be A man in black I wear it for the sick And lonely old For the reckless ones Whose bad trip left them cold I wear the black

and mourning for the lives that could have been each week we lose a hundred fine young men and I wear it for the thousands who have died believing that the Lord was on their side I feel like I can't fade down Johnny Cash.

This is somehow sacrilegious somehow. But talk to me about Man in Black, Johnny Cash. This is somehow sacrilegious somehow. Talk to me about Man in Black, Johnny Cash. Yeah, so when I was a kid, Johnny Cash was playing at our home all the time. The first big concert I went to, I was probably five years old. My parents would have been in their mid-twenties.

They were very young when I was born. It was Johnny Cash. I'm a big Johnny Cash fan. This is one of my favorites. I have a few others as well. My family loves Johnny Cash. I'm a big Johnny Cash fan. And this is one of my favorites. I have a few others as well. I mean, my family loves Johnny Cash so much that when my granddad passed away, we sang Ring of Fire at his funeral.

Wow. I love it. And this particular song just speaks to me. And again, it's really an anthem about social justice. It's an anthem about, you know, taking care of everyone in our community. It's an anthem that says that, you know, if you were born on the other side of the tracks, you're still part of this community in this place. And it also came out, I believe, 1971. So, you know, I thought it was important at that time that, you know, it's kind of at that

time, Johnny Cash was pretty mainstream country, even though the whole outlaw movement was happening. But to come out and be critical of the Vietnam War at that particular moment in time was pretty courageous as well. Without a doubt. It's an anthem of sorts. And I'm looking forward to the cover that you will record, Man in Green. Okay. cover that you will record Man in Green. Okay?

So if you need help with that, I am friends with great singers like Danny Graves from The Watchmen. And why do I bring up The Watchmen? Great. They're actually, you mentioned Manitoba with a couple of previous artists, but that's a great Winnipeg band, The Watchmen. And their drummer is a guy named Sammy Cohn.

And I'm going somewhere here, Mike, because when Sammy's not drumming for the Watchmen, he's one of Ontario's top 1% real estate agents. And if anyone listening has any real estate questions whatsoever, you can write Sammy now. You can also write him with a drumming question if you want. But Sammy.Cohn, and Cohn is K-O-H-N, at ProperlyHomes.ca.

Reach out to Sammy. He's a good supporter of the real talk on Toronto Mike so I can have hour-long conversations with Mike Schreiner instead of the five to seven. Although the agenda gives you a little bit longer, right? Like how long do you get there? Half an hour? How long does Paykin give you on TVO there?

You know, it depends. Most of the time those conversations are usually 20 minutes, 25 minutes. But not bad considering the other options out there. Oh yeah, for sure. I can't tell you how many times I'm having to distill complex ideas into like 20 seconds, 10 seconds even.

And so, you know, it takes you have to think harder of how you explain something in 10 seconds than if you have 10 minutes. Like you said, you have to think harder of how you explain something in 10 seconds than if you have 10 minutes. And like you said, you're trying to simplify complex situations here. Like sometimes it can't be done without omitting vital details.

That's right. Yeah, exactly. Like I had to cut that to get it down to your two to three minutes, but that's actually a really important factor in why this is not going to work, et cetera. Okay. I had two options for this final jam.

You made me do a little work here. So I actually like, I'm like, options. I just took the last one. Okay. So let's kick out Mike Schreiner's fifth of five jams. This went all too quickly, but let's kick it. guitar solo He walks head down As though he's sorry for his existence He's losing ground

Because his demons are so persistent Oh, what went wrong? What made you feel so sad? Oh, oh, oh, I wanna give you all the love And you never had We know it's not perfect at this Life can have moments where it's heaven on earth We are brothers keepers, it's our job to remind one another of what we're worth

You've had time this fortune tonight, wish I could show you we all have a blue and a shine We are brothers keepers, so I'll watch out for your back and know that you'll have mine yeah brothers

keeper she told Joni Narita I hope I didn't butcher the pronunciation

you do it for me no Joni will be fine with that Narita yeah okay

tell us why you chose and again the other one, I guess I'm going to shout it out. You said, Wish It Away or Brothers Keeper. I went with Brothers Keeper,

but they're both great jams. I listened to both of them. Why this song? Well, first of all, Joni's of everyone here is probably the person I know the best. She lives in Guelph and has spent most of her career,

musical career anyway, in Guelph or in Kitchener- her career musical career anyway in Guelph or in Kitchener-Waterloo and it's just like a fixture in the region's music scene and I love the groove I love the beat you know I love R&B and I think you know Joni's

one of my favorites and this song is actually kind of connected to Man in Black in some respects. And so I could see why you would have chosen this of the two I gave you because the two are connected. And, you know, some of that comes out of, you know, Johnny Cash is known as his gospel music. And Joni's known a bit of that as well. And a big part of those themes are taking care of your brother, taking care of your neighbor, being there for other people, being the friend that people can rely on.

And, you know, I relate to that in my personal life, and I also relate to that in my political life. And so if you look at a lot of the things I do at Queen's Park are about building caring communities, and those caring communities are about caring for, you know for the environment that sustains us, but it's also about caring for our neighbors and caring for the people who I share Guelph with, solutions, ideas, a vision, values that really reflect taking care of people in my community. We're all in this together, Mike, right? We're all in this together. When I tweeted you were going to come by and kick out the jam, somebody replied right away thinking you'd be kicking out Green Day for sure, because there's green in their name. And then I started thinking, like, oh, yeah, I want to kick out, like, green jams, but not songs with, like, the escarpment blues there

with, like, a green lyrical content, but actual, literally, like, green is in the title of the song, like, kicking out the green songs. I don't know. That's food for thought for another day. But, Mike, thanks for doing this. Your second visit, but your first in person. I hope it's not your last.

It's been fun. Pleasure to come on. Happy to come back anytime. Guelph Mike meets Toronto Mike. I'll book you for tomorrow. We'll do five more jams. And that brings us to the end of our 1,193rd show. You can follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Toronto Mike. Mike, is it at Mike Schreiner? Remind me what your Twitter handle is. This is your chance. Just Mike Schreiner. And spell Schreiner for everybody because I struggle with it. Yeah, so Schreiner. S-C-H-R-E-I-N-E-R.

Sounds like the guys with the funny hats who do good work for people, but not spelled the same. And those little cars. Those little cars. We need those to be e-cars. Come on. Let's get those battery operated there. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Don't leave here without your lasagna, Mike. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta don't leave here without your lasagna Mike Recycle My Electronics are at EPRA underscore Canada Cliff Hacking will be on soon to give you more details as to how

you can safely recycle your electronics that's actually a a green a good green thing as we say Ridley Funeral Home they're at Ridley FH Canna Cabana speaking of green they're at Canna Cabana underscore. And Sammy Cone Real Estate is at Sammy Cone.

Again, Cone is K-O-H-N. See you all. I'm just trying to figure out who's next. I believe it might be the living legend himself, Lloyd Robertson. See you then. Thank you. There's a thousand shades of grey Cause I know that's true Yes I do I know it's true Yeah

I know it's true How about you? I've been picking up trash And then putting down roads And they're brokering stocks The class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am

But who gives a damn? Because everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms me today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away

Cause everything is Rosie and Gray Well I've kissed you in France And I've kissed you in Spain and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Sacré-Cœur But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true.

Because everything is coming up rosy and green. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms us today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine. And it won't go away away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy and Everything is rosy and gray Thank you.