Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Mike Toth: Toronto Mike'd #145

Episode Date: November 26, 2015

Mike chats with former TSN, Sportsnet, Fan 590 and Newstalk 1010 host Mike Toth about his career in sports media, his battle with depression, how his business has changed and what he's learned along the way.

Welcome to episode 145 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything, often with a distinctly Toronto flavour. I'm Mike from torontomic.com and joining me this week is former TSN, Sportsnet, Fan 590 and News Talk 1010 host, Mike Toth. Heavy on the former. You know what? I was thinking, like, do I play for you the Johnny Cash song? Like, I've been everywhere because... Oh, yeah. A little bit in the background.

Because, seriously, you've been everywhere, man. Yeah, there's good to that and there's bad to that. And that's the reality of the situation for sure, Mike. Well, we're going to dive in. Any excuse to play Johnny Cash, that's what I always say. Oh, I agree, yeah. I've got my Johnny Cash CDs at home, no question. You know, everyone talks about country music.

And the new country is horrible, in my humble opinion. The new country that you see on, like, I don't know, American Music Awards or played on the country stations, terrible. This stuff was good. This is the real stuff. Yeah. The real shit. That's where I started in country music, at Q13 Radio, the country kicker in

Brooks, Alberta. So I've worked in a country format, too. I wasn't a DJ. I was a news and sports guy, but I'm certainly familiar with the country format, that's for sure. You know, I married a girl from Alberta. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Where is she from?

Edmonton. Oh, okay. That counts. Yeah, it counts, right? Originally, I married a girl from Saskatoon, born and raised in Saskatoon. Second time around, I married a girl born and raised in Edmonton. I like the Western Canadian line. You can't go wrong with either of those cities.

Saskatoon, a lot of people don't know this, but Saskatoon is one of the most gorgeous cities in Edmonton. I like the Western Canadian line. You can't go wrong with either of those cities. Saskatoon, a lot of people don't know this, but Saskatoon is one of the most gorgeous cities in the entire country. I love Saskatoon. I've never made my way to Saskatchewan. I skip over it. Been to Alberta, been to BC, but never Saskatchewan. That's the place to be.

Saskatchewan has all the money now. Is that right? All the potash. Hey, it's, look, it's Mike Toth. Toth as in rhymes with both, but not Toth as in rhymes with moth. That's right. I always say that. That's my catchphrase. Is that right? I thought I meant it that way. No, no, no. That's how I explain the name to everybody because so many people, my little guys at school, my 10-year-old, my eight-year-old boys, they always get upset because everybody calls them Toth.

You said it. I said it's Toth like both. It's not Toth like moth. So that's the perfect equation. But English is weird, man. What's the point of that? No wonder. It must be tough to learn English. If I had to do it all over again, I definitely would have changed my name before

I got into broadcasting. And I'm not kidding about that. I think names are very important when you're dealing, especially when you're dealing with people who are in the public eye. If Elvis Presley's name would have been Bob, it wouldn't be the same, right? No. Ladies and gentlemen, Bob has left the building. It just doesn't have the same ring. It doesn't work.

You're right. So names are important. You young broadcasters out there, Broadcasting 101, change your name. Jim Van Horn. Have you ever had Jim on the show before? Not yet, no. Well, Jim, he was an old radio DJ, and he used a lot of different names over the years. His real name, and I don't think I'm telling tales out of school here,

because he doesn't make any bones about it. His real name is actually Dave Melnick. Jim Van Horn is his stage name. But in the past, he's used different names. I remember him telling me one time that one radio station that he wanted to work at, they said, well, you can work here, but you got to change your name. And they said, how about Gymnasium? You know what? You know, the very first scene, the first episode of WKRP in Cincinnati, when we first meet Dr. Johnny Fever and he introduces himself to Andy Travis and he goes I'm Johnny Fever previously known as or whatever he names

all the different names he's had in his radio career like Johnny Sunshine Johnny that's that's what I'm thinking about a pretty common thing in old radio so if I had to do it all over again I would have changed my name to Mike Maverick or something like the Michael Jordan. Who's that actor who's playing Creed? Michael B. Jordan. Michael B. Jordan. He's playing in the new Rocky movie, Creed. He is Michael B. Jordan. It works for him.

You see the box set I have here, the wire? You probably can't see it from your angle, but the wire is on this table. Michael B. Jordan was Wallace in The Wire. Oh, there you go. See? You've got to see that. Hey, you play the name game in radio in a big way and you get the right name uh you'll be a winner i'm telling you names are and sometimes

you layer it like mad dog's been on this show you know mad dog from uh yeah sure but mad dog and billy so mad dog's a fake name on top of the name jay michaels which is a fake name so he's not a jay or a michaels or a mad dog he's got a completely different name. Lair those fake names, kids. It's like in Buffalo radio, there's the Bulldog. He does the all sports radio in Buffalo and he's the Bulldog. He sounds like a Bulldog. I don't know if he looks like a Bulldog, but the name grabs you. He's the Bulldog and he's got a job for life. You got it.

Unlike certain other broadcasters. Like Mike Toth slash Toth. Mike Maverick. We're going to get to that. I like it. Speaking of Mike, you know, I'm a Mike, you're a Mike, and you really are your going to get to that. I like it. Speaking of Mike, I'm a Mike, you're a Mike,

and you really are. You're a Mike, as you mentioned. That's your real name. Episode 145, you're the third guest named Mike after Mike Stafford and Mike Wilner.

Is there any money or prizes that come with that? Because I could use it right about now. But can you... We're going to get to that too. But I was wondering... Can, goods, anything.

I can lend you the wire, but you got to bring it back. So you got some time now. There's always a catch. Son of a gun. Mike, I don't know if you had this experience, but going through school and even playing slow pitch for over a decade, I was always at least one of three mics, always. There's always at least two other mics in my class or on my slow pitch team.

Yeah, Mike was a very common name, you're right, for people of our vintage. My little guy's name is Max, and that's a very common name. I've got Max and Theo. I got to name the dog. My wife got to name the kid, so she went with Max and Theo. That's right. I actually wanted to name Theo Rio. There was a kid in my hometown out west.

I'm from a little town just outside of Calgary called Bassano, and Rio King was this cool cowboy-type kid, and I thought Rio was one of the coolest names. So there would be a good radio or stage or TV name. Rio King. Well, you can always reinvent. It's not too late to reinvent yourself. All right.

This is Rio King coming at you here on the airwaves of Toronto Mike. Yeah. Burn what we know to be Mike Toth. You burn that. You just light a match. Forget about the Mike part, Mike Maverick. I'm now Rio King. Whatever works, I'll do it.

All right, Rio. So you mentioned you're from, I don't know, my notes are shit because I've got you from Moose Jaw. That's where I was born. Okay, you were born in Moose Jaw. You know where Moose Jaw is? Saskatchewan. Yeah, but really Moose Jaw is about six feet

from the moose tail. Is that right? Good humor, part of a quality podcast. No, yeah, I was born in Moose Jaw, and I moved all over the place out west because my dad, believe it or not, was an old radio slash newspaper guy. So even back then when you were a radio guy or a small town newspaper guy in the media, you still had to move around to find the promised land.

So I lived in a ton of little towns out west, too numerous to name, but Moose Jaw, East End, Saskatchewan, Estevan, Shawnevin, Saskatchewan, Swift Current, Saskatchewan, Bassano, Alberta, Brooks, Alberta, Stetler, Alberta. You get my drift. I lived in a lot of places because my dad was always following the radio dream just like I was. And I see that you're used to those expensive microphones at 1010 because these guys, you got to be. And only because as you get more emphatic, you're going to want to move your head.

I'm going to invest. I've decided on my last steps. I'm going to invest in those swing arm things. So you got like, you know, you screw them into the table and they swing. I don't know, about a hundred bucks each. I'll try and stay steady. But yes, we had those microphones at News Talk 1010 when I worked there and they had warm coffee

and they even had a place to crawl in for a little nap if you so desire. Those days are done now. Now I've got to nap on the street and get coffee where I can. I'm going to do my the street and get coffee where I can. I'm going to do my best to keep this in chronological order

because that'll be like the apex. That's like the climax of our story. Right, oh, okay. Because, you know, you've got to build up to that. So you get your start

in Calgary. You mentioned country music and shit. So I have a tweet from Jim Lang. You ever heard of this Jim Lang guy? Yes, Jim Lang, yes.

My good friend, a cohort from the Rogers Sportsnet days. Good old Clubber Lang. Clubber Lang. Speaking of Apollo Creed, it's all about Rocky. So Jim Lang says, I have to ask you about your experience with the Stampede Wrestling in Calgary. So bring me back. I hope this ties in, but bring me back to those Western Canadian days before you end up on TSN. Well, yeah, I mean, I got my start in small town radio and then eventually went to small town television and eventually ended up at Calgary 7 television,

which still exists. It's in a global television format now, part of the global television network. But it was Calgary 2 and 7 back then. And one of the big shows that we did, and Jim is right, was Stampede Wrestling starring Ed Whalen. Do you remember Ed Whalen? No.

Is he of your vintage? No, but I've heard the name in reference to this wrestling, but no. Well, he was a living legend out west. He did everything. He came from a time in the media when you could do everything and do it with credibility. So he was the television voice of the calgary flames okay he was a news director at a radio station delivering hard-hitting news editorials and at the same time keep in mind he was doing all of this yeah he was the sports

caster on the six o'clock sports cast on the tv station and he was the voice of stampede wrestling every friday night at the Victoria Pavilion where guys like Dynamite Kid and Brian Hart and Owen Hart and Jim Neidhart got their start before they went to the WWE what is it?

is it now the WWF? no it's E now oh it's E now when I grew up it was F and then the World Wildlife guys the panda guys so it's WWE now which shows you how much I watch wrestling now. But in the old days, when those guys were around, like Dynamite Kid and Davey Boy Smith and Bret Hart, it was all the rage.

I watched along with everybody else. And that's where a lot of those guys got their start. It was at my TV station. And Ed Whalen was the voice of Stampede Wrestling, giving all those guys their jump start. So it was pretty exciting times back in the day in Calgary when the Flames were first arriving on the scene. Stampede Wrestling was all the rage and local sports shows were where everybody went for their sporting information because there was no TSN.

There was no Sportsnet. So we hosted a show called Sports at 11. That was my big gig on Calgary 7. It was a very popular half-hour show, much like the show that Jim Taddy and Mark Hepshire did. I was going to say, Sportsline. Sportsline, for years here in Toronto. It was basically the Calgary version of Sportsline,

very popular, but then TSN came along and Sportsnet came along and the 900 Channel Universe came along and pretty soon Sports at 11 became Sports at 11.30 and before we became Sports at 11.30. And before we became Sports at 3 a.m., they decided to shut the show down. And that's how I ended up in Toronto. I needed a new job.

And you came here. So you came here without a job or were you? No, I was lucky. Back in those days, Mike, it was a lot different. I mean, as you know, I was recently laid off at News Talk 1010. I was laid off back in the 90s when they canceled the sports show because the overall landscape of sports was changing so much in broadcasting. But even back then, even though it was changing, I got laid off. And in about a week, I had four job offers on the table.

Good old days. Yeah, I could have gone to Portland, Maine. So there was an American opportunity there. I could have gone to a TV station in Edmonton to do sports or a TV station in Kitchener to do sports or TSN came calling. So I just said, well, what's the best opportunity? Who's paying the biggest money and what's the biggest exposure? And that's how I landed at the TSN. It's national. Yeah. So it was a pretty easy decision. Now you use that term laid off and I've been hearing it a lot lately and we're going to get to this bell media cut soon but

the term from where I come from and I don't come from radio but in my corporate world laid off means we're not going to pay you for a while but when things get better you can come back to your job. There's an actual laid off is different than being terminated. I have no idea. All I know is I get paid till the end of February and I'm looking for a gig. We'll broadcast for food.

I guess my issue with the word laid off is like a PR spin on firing. Yeah. You know what I mean? It feels nice. It sounds a bit nice. Well, there's comfort in numbers because, of course,

actually, I'll ask you this question because I'm not even sure. I knew that, and I know, that Bell Media laid off all these people. Have we ever come up with a final number for the number of people who lost their jobs this time around? I was told 390 across the country.

And they might not even be done yet. They're still doing it. Well, at least there's comfort in numbers when you get laid off. It's true. Okay, well, there's 389 other guys who lost their job too. So it does take some of the sting away.

You can't take that personally. You can't take it personally. And I know a lot. I know buddies of mine, they're behind the scenes people, but you know, buddies of mine who did nothing but what they were,

you know, the best at their job and were like accolades and everything were canned in this wave. So we're going to get to the Bell Media thing for sure. But you're at TSN.

You take the gig at TSN and you're the anchor at SportsCenter. So tell me what it was like at TSN back then and working on SportsCenter or SportsDesk? What the hell were we calling it? It was SportsDesk at the time. Yeah, that's right. Because then they affiliated with ESPN and they changed

everything to SportsCenter. But when I was there, it was SportsDesk. And when I arrived on the scene, Michael Landsberg and a gentleman by the name of Brendan Connor were co-hosting SportsDesk at that time. They decided to give Michael Landsberg the opportunity to host Off the Record. So when I was there, I lose track of time. Was it the mid-'90s?

You've got my resume in funny. I got a few notes here, but I'm going to say mid-'90s. Sounds about right. You know how it is. You lose track of time. But when I got there, it was the birth date of Off the Record. So Landsberg went in that direction. And so they decided that myself and Darren Detision would host the big show at night,

the primetime sports desk show. And I loved working with Dutchie. I knew Dutchie because he worked at a TV station in Edmonton doing the Edmonton version of Sportsline, like I was doing the Calgary version of Sportsline. It was very similar. You were kind of kings in a smaller pond when you were doing those local sports shows. And Dutchie was a King Edmonton, and I was the Crown Prince of Calgary, or at least one of them, because I had a lot of great co-hosts.

So I knew Darren from those days. So it was a natural fit. We were both from small towns. He was from Porcupine Plain, Saskatchewan. And I was from Bassano, Alberta. So we had a really good chemistry now here's where the soap opera starts though because i'm at tsn for for nine months and it's it's going well i mean we're getting good reviews and i remember for what it's worth loved you guys

on yeah we we had a good combination and dutchie is so darn talented i mean it goes without saying. But then here's where the soap opera begins. I was married at the time. I got married way too young, and she was way too young. We had some problems, and she was living in London, England. We were still married, but we were separated. She was living in London, England, working on her master's in political science. I got the gig in Toronto. I was afraid to tell the people at TSN that we weren't together and that we were separated because I thought, oh, maybe that'd be a red flag. Like you're unstable. Yeah, because back then

people didn't talk about their personal issues. They just didn't. God bless guys like Michael Landsberg who brought, you know, mental health issues out to the forefront. I'm a guy, to be honest, who's had a problem with depression my entire life. I've struggled with it since the time I was six years old. And it took me a long time. I'm happy to say, knock on wood, am I allowed to do that here in the studio? Is that really wood? I'm not too sure. I think so. It's my Kia. I found a good doctor about five or six years ago. And after experimenting with various medications, something I've done my whole life, I finally found something that works for me. But back then,

I was going through some mental health situation. And the combination of going through what turned out to be a divorce was really giving me a lot of problems. So I was a mess when I was at TSN. I'd go up to the makeup room. And after having spent the entire day in bed, and I'd crawl up to the makeup room and the poor girls there would say, oh my God, you look awful. And they'd do their handiwork on me and get me into some situation where I could actually go on the air. And then the natural juices, I guess, would kick in. And sometimes when you suffer from depression, when you're trying to compensate for that, you can kind of go the other way and develop kind of a manic personality just to get through some of the tough times here so suffice to say i was having a lot of struggles

and subsequent to that as i said my my wife and i were having problems and she landed up ended up in london england as it turned out she landed a job in calgary as a professor in political science so i thought oh well maybe if I go back to Calgary, I can take one more shot at getting this marriage back on the rails because it's something I wanted to try and work out. So I quit at TSN. Who quits at TSN? Nobody quits.

In fact, let me say this. I'm the only guy in Canadian television history who's quit TSN twice. Wow. Because I actually was working as their Calgary reporter during some of my years in Calgary. But then my Calgary TV station came back and made me some crazy promises about what they were going to give me. So I quit my job after six months as TSN's Calgary reporter

to go back to my local station. So now I'm going to quit TSN for the second time. Great career move, kids. I moved back to Calgary. But you did it for love. Yeah, well, I'm going to quit TSN for the second time. Great career move, kids. I moved back to Calgary. But you did it for love. Yeah, well, I went back to Calgary with the hopes of maybe doing something with my marriage. Knock, knock, knock on her door. Slam, the door is shut. I realized, oh my God, there's no chance of this. We're done. And so I sacrificed my career. It wasn't her fault. Believe me, it was mostly my fault because she had to live with a guy who was going through a lot of mental health problems

that, as I say, I'm happy to say they're all on my track now. But at the time, yeah, it was a tough situation. So I quit TSN twice, and a lot of it was because of my mental health situations. And I wish I would have talked to them more about those issues at the time. But as I say, back in the mid-90s, those kind of issues, you know. It was a different time. Yeah, you're going through depression, you're going through marriage problems.

Those are things you just didn't talk about back then. So I didn't. And the rest, as they say, is history. I'm the only guy alive who's quit TSN twice. Smooth career move, Jackson. Well, like Landsberg often says or tweets, or both, I guess, but it's sick not weak. Yeah.

Well, I have a lot of respect for Michael, and he's done so much great work on that front. And I will say this, still to this day, I mean, I'm sharing this story with you, and hopefully there's somebody out there listening who might say, okay, I'm not alone. But every time you share a story like this, there is a danger and a risk of doing that. Because to this day, even though things have

changed, I have talked to different executives and management people and coworkers about different issues when it's come up or when I felt led to do it, to explain maybe some bad behavior on my part or something. And they still don't react. people don't react the way you think they might or the way you wish they would not everybody so it's still there's still a stigma it's a lot better but i guess my message to people who are suffering from depression or mental health issues is yes talk to people but be careful who you talk to and be careful how you share that information because we're still learning about it. And you've got to cut people some slack because some people, they just don't understand it.

They say, well, what are you talking about? You're depressed. I get depressed, too. It's no big deal. You just fight through it. It's not that simple. Right. It's kind of ironic, though, that this company that's all about, you know, de-stigmatizing?

What's the term? When you unstigmatize mental health issues. I know one way to really disrupt somebody's life and spiral them into something dark is to fire them from their job. 390 people. Let's talk. Bell Media, let's talk.

And I actually used, I'm an idiot, I used that hashtag the day that most people were in the news. Well, let's put it this way. Their hotline might be very busy with former workers. I'm just thinking. But with that said, you still have to give Bell a lot of credit for starting that initiative because it is a good starting point. And hey, life happens. Things happen.

And at least maybe now we have some tools. And I can tell you this. The situation I'm in right now, Mike, would be a lot different if it would have happened to me six or seven years ago. I wouldn't be doing this interview, for instance. I'd probably be at home with the lights closed in my room in bed for two weeks or maybe under the bed for two weeks.

So, hey, I mean, give them credit for starting an initiative and Michael Landsberg and Bell are a big part of that. And you're right. People who are lucky enough to not be afflicted with this can sometimes have difficulty understanding what it's like. Like it's in my, I won't, it's in my family and I, I'm lucky enough I've dodged this particular bullet, but it's, it's, it's sometimes you hear about it and how somebody's feeling and then it takes, you have to kind of work at, well, I can't know how that feels.

Like, and then you kind of find some analogies, like it's like a dark cloud following you and all these different kind of analogies you'll hear and it is difficult some people don't know you know or they think yeah i feel bummed out sometimes too and then i just kind of shake it off and i just go out there and i take on the world but they don't understand it's an illness it is i mean the best analogy i can come up with or the best example i guess is a better word for it of depression to try and make people understand what it's like. I always remember it was when I was working at TSN and going through some of those dark personal times. I dropped the soap in the shower one morning and it literally took me 20 minutes before I could make the decision to pick that piece of soap up. I was so depressed and so paralyzed by depression and sadness.

I literally stared at the piece of soap at the bottom of the bathtub and I couldn't get the energy to pick it up. Now, people are going to say, come on, well, I'm just sharing that story. So that's what it's like. And yeah, I mean, it's a tough thing to understand, but believe me, it is real. But I will say this to people who are suffering from the affliction and don't think there is any hope, there's definitely hope.

I'm living proof of that, just one example. You have to be diligent. It's kind of like when you're trying to find a job, which is something I'm learning about right now. You work a lot harder at finding a job than you do when you have a job. So it's the same diligence when you're dealing with a mental health problem. You've got to be diligent. I went through so many doctors, so many counselors,

so many medications until I finally hit a home run. And you just keep working and working. Because it's trial and error, right? It's like you've got to observe. How do you feel? Let's alter this dosage. Exactly. It's not an exact science.

It requires this period of observation. And you have to find the right person, in my case, the right doctor that you feel comfortable sharing with and who's just as diligent as you are in terms of trying to find a solution. He has to be diligent, too, in helping you. And so once you match those two things up, believe me, folks, there is hope and there is a cure. Good stuff. When you're in Calgary and the door has been slammed in your face and you've quit TSN at this point, what do you do? How does opportunity, not to use the knocking pun again, but how does opportunity knock again? You knock on your parents' door in Basano, Alberta, that small town I grew up in, and you live in your parents' basement for six months. That's what I did. I left TSN. I went from co-hosting a show with Darren Detijan on national TV every night to living in my parents' basement as I tried to get my life back on track. My marriage now is in ruins. I have no job. I really didn't have the energy to get things going. But you know what,

it was the best thing that I ever did. It was the start of my recovery process, or at least got me pointed in the right direction. There was still a lot of work to do. But it was a good break for me. My parents were two people who, to be honest, were great people individually, but together, there were a lot of problems. They had a similar situation to me and my first wife. They got married way too young. I did that too, by the way. I was 21. But I hope you're not saying that to your current wife. No, no. You're on wife number two?

I'm on wife number two of two. I'm done. Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, so going back home, I grew up in a very volatile household where there was a lot of fighting, where there was a lot of unrest, where there was a lot of personality conflicts between mom and dad. Individually, they were great. They were a great mom and dad together, and they had some problems. But when I moved back home as an adult and lived in their house for six months, that was the time where they kind of came together. They'd

worked out a lot of their problems over the years. They decided to stay together, a good, strong Catholic family. You don't break up. But I actually, for six months, saw them treat each other as well as I'd ever witnessed them treat each other before. So it was actually a really cathartic experience for me to see them actually get along along because just the simple act of getting along was very difficult for them. So it was actually a very warm and caring six months that we spent together, and I really enjoyed it. I started playing hockey with my old buddies. By now we were playing old-timers hockey,

so these were guys who'd stayed in my hometown and it was a big farming and ranching and oil and gas community so that's how they made their living and I found myself playing hockey with guys I'd played peewee, bantam and midget together with and for a while it was great I said oh my god I'm playing hockey with the same guys I used to play hockey with but then after about six months I woke up and I said oh my god I'm playing hockey with the same guys I grew up playing hockey with and now we're old-timers Good news, bad news. Yeah. So at that time, Sportsnet was coming on the scene. And my dad was the guy. He said, well, why don't you call Sportsnet? Call Scott Moore, because Scott Moore had given me my first job at TSN. Now he was over at Sportsnet as the

executive producer, the big boss man. So he said, call Scott Moore. He hired you once. Maybe he'll hire you twice. And I said, well, Dad. I said, no, they're ready to go. They're going to launch. I think this was in August, and they were launching in September. I said, Dad, they're going to have all their people in. They're not going to have any jobs.

I mean, this was an intensive search. They're starting a sports network. They're going to have all their ducks in a row. So he said, well, what the heck? Call them anyway. So I called Scott Moore. Cole called him, and I said, Scott, I need a job. He said, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I've always wanted to try to do play-by-play.

And he said, do you want to be the play-by-play guy for the Calgary Flames? I said, yeah, okay, sure. So I took a gig with Sportsnet. Out of the blue, I was the play-by-play guy for the Calgary Flames, the game day host, the pre- and post-game shows for the Edmonton Oilers, and I did a bunch of Canadian Hockey League Junior broadcasts for Sportsnet, and that's how I landed on my feet with Sportsnet. I did the play-by-play gig for a while, but my first love was always the studio.

So on the opportunity to do the studio show, what is it now, Sports Central? Yeah, Connect Central? Yeah. Connected? No. It was. It was connected. They've changed it a bunch of times. Central, I think.

I think at that time it was Sports Central and I think it's Sports Central again to be honest. I think it's gone back. All things come in full circle. Right. So I went back to Toronto

and I did the highlight show because that's always what I thought I was best at and that was always my first love. So I decided to go back to Toronto and that's how I ended up back in Toronto working for Sportsnet. And I did that for something like 11 years, I think, 11 years straight. Well, it makes sense because people remember you from Sportsdesk. And since Sportsnet is the new dog in the playground, then you got to

have a familiar face doing kind of they're connected, which is essentially the Sportsnet. Yeah, well, it was a tough challenge because at that time, TSN was so entrenched, so far ahead of us. So when I went to Sportsnet, Scott Moore said to me, look, he says, we got to get noticed. And we're going to go down this road. We're going to be the fun and irreverent network

and i had worked on a i know it sounds like a cliche but it's true a fun and irreverent sports show in calgary sports at 11 calgary's answer to sports line but we had a literally had a stand-up comedian uh as part of our uh stable of sportscasters and he his name was mike lonsborough and he had a heavy influence on our show in terms of its comedy content and it seemed to work people kind of got a kick out of some of the the comedy aspects of sports at 11 and scott has a great sense of humor so he said hey i want some of that sports at 11 stuff on sportsnet because at least we'll be known for something sure so we went out there and we tried everything under the sun to get people to watch us and some of the stuff was crazy i mean we we did an alvis presley salute show we we used to dress up in costumes and run around the studio we didn't have the olympic rights so we staged our own mock olympics and

basically made fun of the olympic ideal now of course sportsnetnet has found religion, i.e. Rogers money, and they don't have to do any of that crazy stuff back then. But we did it, and it worked to a certain degree. I mean, people started to know who we were. And back then, that's about all we had to fight TSN's power with was the fact that, hey, we've got some fun and irreverent, crazy sports games. Yeah, you've got to differentiate yourself.

Yeah, and myself and Jamie Campbell did a show that seemed to resonate with a lot of people. We had a lot of college kids watching us. We were kind of the early forerunners, I think, to Jay Onright and Dan O'Toole. We kind of planted those seeds. And Jay was a guy who I'd worked with at TSN. He was working behind the scenes, and I was in front of the camera. I always got along well with Jay, and Jay's obviously funny in his own right.

But I think he saw some of the stuff that we were doing on Sports at 11 and then on Sportsnet, and he said, aha, maybe I can try some of that same stuff and I won't get fired in the next two weeks. So I think we did plant some comedy seeds, if you want to call it that, for lack of a better term, I guess. And some of the young sportscasters, like an on-right no-tool, took that ball and ran with it.

So, yeah, the Sportsnet years, the early years were great years because there was no pressure on us. We were trying to catch a juggernaut. So we basically did whatever we wanted to do out there. And so many times TV media critics like Chris Zeljkovic and the Toronto Star would ask me, they'd say, how can you get away with the stuff you do out there? And I'd say, Chris, what do you mean, how can I get away with it?

I'm not running the network. That's what they want. I can only do what the network wants if i was doing something that they didn't want me to do and albeit it was pretty crazy stuff at times yeah then i wouldn't do it because they would say shut it down not once did scott moore ever say shut it down he basically let us do what we wanted to do until sportsnet finally found their own legs and could compete with tsnSN on more equal footing, I guess, as they started to get more and more properties, live properties. I mean, you talk about these goofy antics. So one was you pretended to be drunk on the air.

Yeah, I can't even remember all of these things. I'm sure I did. If you didn't, you should have. No, yeah, you definitely did. I'm sure I did, but I don't remember that one. We did, trust me, every night we did something. We would go out there, and some of it was planned, some of it wasn't. But our whole modus operandi on a show, myself and Jamie Campbell, would be, all right, what can we do to throw him a curveball? Because at that time, and executives were in line with this too, and certainly the audience was.

What people used to say to myself and Jamie Campbell, for instance, when we were doing the show together was, we love watching you guys because we don't know what you're going to do next. So we tried to keep them guessing every night. And as I said, it seemed to work on some level because we gained a degree of notoriety even in the face of a juggernaut like TSN, which wasn't easy. People did notice you, like 2007.

For good and bad. Yeah, but that's really, as long as they notice you, the worst thing is indifference. Like, oh, I don't remember that. But that's my, it's interesting because that's how the business has changed. But to further your point, I remember there was one poll

in the Toronto Star Sports section that said I was the most annoying sportscaster in Toronto. Aggravating announcer. I was also, I think on that list, the third or fourth most popular sportscaster in the Toronto Star poll. And then a few years later, I was the second most popular sportscaster, according to the Toronto Sun readership survey. So when I came up to Pike as a broadcaster, and I remember my first boss is telling me this, very simple, have personality, have an opinion,

and here's the key to success. Have 50% of the people like you, have 50% of the people hate you. Don Cherry, right? Yeah, and Howard Stern. Howard Stern. But now broadcasting is a little different. That 50-50 ratio.

You know what? I think most broadcast executives would say, yeah, well, here's the ratio we're looking for. 60% of the people say, he's all right. 20% say, yeah, he's okay. And then 20% don't even know him. Because it's less trouble that way. So now that's why you're seeing so many young broadcasters

getting opportunities at the network level. They haven't had any experience. They haven't had to work their chops in a small market. They just come straight out of school. They probably pay them $50,000 or $60,000. Nobody knows them. They're indistinguishable. If they're lucky.

Yeah, they're indistinguishable. And basically your job now as a broadcaster is don't peeve anybody off. Just get us to the live event on time. And that's where all the money is now. So true, man. It seems like the character, the personality, it's very

bland. Yeah. Well, I think that's what they want. And I would assume that's what they want because that's what they've got. They've got a bunch of robots who are basically bland and are getting paid $50,000 or $60,000, I would assume. I don't know. I'm not a banker. I'm not an accountant. But they're happy to be there.

And they're not going to cause anybody trouble internally or externally. I mean, you're not going to have to deal with a veteran broadcaster like myself who might say, you know what? I think maybe we should lead with this highlight group. They're just happy to be there. They do as they're told. They do as they're told. They get you to the live event on time, and everybody's happy, and that's, of course,

where all the big money is now, is in live event broadcasting. And if I had to do it all over again, I would have concentrated more on my live event ability, doing the play-by-play and the hosting, as opposed to the studio show. But I just loved the feel of doing a studio show. It was like you were Johnny Carson and David Letterman every night. And back then, those shows were big. But now, if you're a smart sportscaster, here's another tip for the kids broadcasting 101. If you do want to be a sports

broadcaster, you've got to concentrate on being part of a live event. Be in the arena with the players calling the action. Because, you know, not just in sports broadcasting, but in broadcasting as a whole. Live event sports is where the money is. It's that simple. People like watching live event sports. That's why the Blue Jays were so popular this year. Everybody wanted to watch that game.

They didn't want to PVR it. No. They wanted to be part of the live audience watching it right now. It's really the last reason we have to give $100 plus a month to our cable company for television. It's for live sports.

Well, what do I watch? I was on late night television for years, so I didn't see a lot of late night TV shows or primetime TV shows because I was getting my TSN or Sportsnet broadcast ready or what have you. What I watch now is episodes of The Office on Show Me, commercial free. I couldn't even tell you five TV shows in primetime outside of sports that are on the air right now. There's no tune-in shows anymore. We all had to tune in back in the old days to see who shot JR on Dallas. Those days are over.

Long gone. Absolutely. There's no appointment viewing anymore. No one watches that way. Except for sports. Except for sports. And sports, like you said, and I know there's the exceptions,

but most of us cannot watch sports unless it's live. I'm on Twitter a lot. Like, it's not one of those things I can PVR and watch, like, a few hours later or the next day. It's in the moment. It's, like, it's happening now. Yeah, and most people are like that.

We all PVR some sporting events. I mean, when you have kids, like you say. If I had a PVR, I probably would. Well, there you go. You've got three kids and another one on the way. I've got two boys, so they play a lot of sports at night. So sometimes if we do want to watch a game, we do PVR because we have no choice. So if you have no choice, you do PVR sports.

But if you do have a choice, you want to be live in the moment with the rest of the people and the rest of the fans watching that game. All right. and the rest of the fans watching that game. All right. I'm going to take you back to 2007 for a moment, but you were suspended by Sportsnet for a confrontation with a producer and some pointed on-air comments about the new direction of the network.

Is that right? Yeah. The hot seat got hotter right there. No, I was expecting that question, and this is another reason why i'm uh at your fine humble studio at one o'clock on a uh thursday why are you choking me right now as opposed to being gainfully employed is when you're a public personality perception becomes reality so i had a conflict with a producer who if i I saw him today, we'd still be friends.

I always got along with the guy. But it got so blown out of proportion. In the Toronto Sun, and I should have sued them for this, quite frankly, they had me rolling around on the ground exchanging punches with a producer on the newsroom floor. That didn't happen? That's so far-fetched. It's not even in the neighborhood.

We had a little disagreement over the show content, and my disagreement wasn't even with him. It was with the powers that be. And, well, let's just say the Super Dave years were not my favorite years of broadcasting. Let's just put it that way, okay? Dave was a lawyer who somehow got a job as a broadcast executive don't ask me how, but all the power to him

I guess he knew how to play the political game but he was the kind of guy who knew nothing and thought he knew everything which is the most dangerous combination in life some of the veteran broadcasters and producers were more than willing to help him but he didn't want to listen to anybody my door is always open he would say probably because it was open so he could slam it

in your face when you actually pointed out anything to him but as i said i don't want to get bitter about the super debut right right anyway so yeah we had some problems with some of the content on the show and some of the direction of the show so i had a disagreement with the producer the next thing i i know i'm reading in the newspapers that I'm rolling around on the newsroom floor exchanging punches with the producer. But you got suspended for this. I did get suspended for it. But you didn't slug the guy.

There was no physical contact. Wow. Believe me. Trust me. What can I trust anymore if the Toronto Sun would lie to me? The physical contact was me putting my hand on his shoulder in a very condescending way. Okay, okay. But that was the extent of the physical contact.

See, it's good that you're here, though, because this is a chance for you to address these things that are out there when people Google your name. It's a chance for you to set the record straight. Yeah, I've tried to set the record straight before, but here's the problem with the record. People will see what they want on a record. They'll hear what they want on a record.

So my attempts to set the record straight before, God bless you. I hope that it changes by this appearance on your show. But I've tried to set the record straight before, and it hasn't really worked. The other big misconception out there, and I don't know if that's on your list. That's an impressive list you've got there, by the way. Google Doc. Yeah.

The Globe and Mail basically cast me as a misogynist. Okay. Yeah, I was going to go there. Yeah, Aaron Andrews. That's here. That's right. So I'm on the fan 590 with Mike Hogan, and there was a story about Aaron Andrews that came up.

I don't even recall the story, but she was a sportscaster. She still is a sportscaster. We saw her at the baseball games, yeah. Yeah, so we got onto the topic of female sportscasters. And I've had the great pleasure and privilege of working with female sportscasters in the past. I married to a woman who was a producer at Sportsnet for years and years before she left recently to take a gig at the Pan Am Games. So I have a kind of an affinity for females working in sports. I'm married to one.

At any rate, we get onto the topic of female sportscasters, and I say to Holgi, I say, well, Holgi, I say, quite frankly, I said, I've worked with a lot of female sportscasters over the years. I've never worked with a female who knew more about sports than I did. But I said, here's what people have to realize. There's a lot more to being a sportscaster than just knowing the starting lineup of the Houston Astros. You've got to be a good writer.

You've got to be a good presenter. You've got to be a good reporter. Hey, you've got to look good. And quite frankly, Martine Geyer and Ivanka Osmak and Jennifer Hedger, the list goes on and on. They look a lot better than I do. That is for sure. So my message was that, hey, as I said, just because

you can name the starring line of the Houston Astros doesn't mean you can be a sportscaster, because I've worked with a lot of these guys behind the scenes, you know, they look at some of these female sports guys and they go, well, they don't know as much as I do. I can tell you who won the 1956 World Series and why. And I'm saying, that's good, guys, but can you present it? Can you communicate? Can you enunciate? Are you a good broadcaster? For instance, Lisa Bowes, a name from the past, she was the best reporter I've ever worked with. Martine Geyer never makes a mistake.

She's like a robot in a good way out there because she never, ever messes up. Me, on the other hand, if I get anything over three syllables, I'm in trouble. So my point is that I was making a point actually in favor of female sportscasters saying, guys, don't get excited. These guys can do a lot of things that you can't do. But what makes the headlines?

Mike Toll says he's never worked with a female sportscaster who knew more about sports than he did. And for three days, I get crucified in the Globe and Mail. Because it's not... They take the headline, they take the one thing I say and forget all the other things that I was saying to make the point. But the quote wasn't about,

you've never worked with a female who knew more than you. It was, you've never worked with a female who has more knowledge than their male counterparts. Like, you made it a... And my first question is, do you still feel that way, I guess?

Because we all evolve with our thoughts. Well, I've never worked with... Yeah yeah i've never worked with a female sportscaster who knew more about sports than i did so what no that may be true but have you worked with a female sportscaster uh who knew more than any other male like forget you any other male it was because the quote i read wasn't as specific as you. It was males in general. It was like, I've never worked with a female. Here, I'll read it real quick. There are no female sportscasters that I can think of

that have more knowledge than their male counterparts. Yeah, that, well... Because that sounds bad, like, in 2015. Maybe that was a direct quote, but I'm talking about me. How can I talk about anybody else except me? Because to me, if it's about you, that's a whole different thing. More importantly, as often happens in the media, and I hate to rain on the parade of the industry I've worked in for so long,

but a lot of times we do it. We take the one sensational thing, we forget about the other message coming behind it, and boom, everything blows up in your face. So that was the point I was making. My point I was making was that just because a female sportscaster might not know as much about sports as some guy working on the back row at tsn doesn't mean the guy in the back row at tsn or anybody for that matter would be a better broadcaster or sportscaster than a female and i guess the same

goes for a male too i mean maybe that was my mistake, isolating like that. Like, you could be a guy in the back row. The reason we talked about female sportscasters at that time was because we were talking about female sportscasters. But the same goes for a male. I mean, I'm sure there were guys behind. Well, I know there were. There were tons of guys behind the row who could beat Mike Toth in a sports trivia contest.

There's guys listening to this podcast right now who could whip my butt. But that doesn't mean necessarily that you can be a sports broadcaster for all the reasons I mentioned. Did you learn a lesson, though, from that? Like in that you would that quote would probably would that quote come out of your mouth, you know, a few weeks ago when you're on 1010? Well, yeah, this is the this is the dangerous part now. Well, yeah, this is the dangerous part now in modern media because I've talked – because of my situation at News Talk 1010, a lot of broadcasters and former cohorts and whatnot have reached out and we've had these discussions. The business has changed so much before. I would have been – if I would have made those comments and got everybody talking and got my name in the paper, say, 20 years ago, I would have been a have been a hero at sports 11 they was ah that was great it was a good discussion everybody was fired up you got all the people mad you know it was great now it's in

the corporate world in which we live in it's oh you shouldn't have done that you gotta be careful and i've had broadcasters i'm not going to name them because they still have jobs but they say you know i look at myself in the mirror sometimes and I don't like what I see because I know the game. They don't even have to tell me. It's just inferred. You have to be very careful now about what you say. Basically, here's how it works. The broadcasters, guys like myself and the guys like Dutchie

and those guys from the old days. In the old days, we were encouraged to have personality and opinion. Now, basically, you're just a setup guy for the ex-athletes because here's another way it's changed. There's so many now former athletes who have come into the equation. They're the guys with credibility, and rightly so. They were the guys on the playing field. When I started out, though, there wasn't as many ex-athletes in the business.

So now, for instance, let's use my old buddy Jamie Campbell as an example. So Jamie's job now is to turn to Greg Zahn, who's the ex-athlete, and say, well, Greg, what happened in the third inning? And then Greg Zahn is allowed to give his opinion because he's got the credibility of being out in the field, and he's the designated hitman for going after the players or management or the coaches. They still have designated hitmen out there.

I mean, that's why you look at Rodgers and Bell, and you can't say, well, you guys don't criticize anybody because you own the teams. Well, that's not necessarily true. It's just now the form for criticizing those athletes, the management, the players, the coaches has changed. It's got to be an ex-athlete. It's got to be like a Jeff O'Neill who works at TSN.

The old dog is allowed to get out and say what he wants. But if you're a presenter like a Jamie Campbell or perhaps a Brian Hayes who sets up Jeff O'Neill on Leafs Lunch, your job now as a broadcaster, you're not really a broadcaster anymore. You're a presenter. You say, old dog, I thought in the second period the Leafs looked a little slow. More importantly, what did you think about that?

So it's changed. I mean, they don't really want you to have that color, that personality, and certainly that opinion that they did in the old day. The business has changed. Now they get us to the game on time, let the ex-athlete, the designated hitter, have his say. You're just basically there to point them in the right direction. So the business has changed, and you've got to adapt to that

because that's just the way it is. You're right. You're right. I'm trying to think now. You're right. It's always the former athletes who kind of, or the guys in the game, like the Don Cherries or whatever, the guys from the game. Those are the guys who are allowed to criticize. Now, if you didn't play in the NHL or Major League Baseball, the executives, they don't want to hear what you have to say.

And quite frankly, maybe the audience doesn't want to hear what you have to say, or at least isn't that interested anymore either, because you've got a podcast. This guy's got a blog. Everybody's on Twitter. Everybody's got an opinion now. So they're just as legitimate as you are. Mike, where did you play, Mike Toth? Well, I played golf for the Red Deer College Kings. Oh, that's great. Well, you know, know who cares but they are still interested in hearing what the greg zahn's and a jeff o'neill's and a nick kiprios's of the world have to say and as a broadcaster now coming out of broadcasting school or you know coming out of yorkton saskatchewan or peterborough ontario if you want to get a job in the big city you're basically a presenter now your

your job is to turn to that ex-athlete and set them up and make them look good. That's your job. That's no fun. I can't be fun to do. It's not as fun as it was. I'd rather be like a Don Cherry. Don't kid yourself. I'd take a job doing that in a heartbeat.

Yeah, but you would take Vanna White's job. At this point, beggars can't be cheesers. That's right. I got two little lads to feed. So, yeah, it's changed, but it's still a pretty good way to make a living, isn't it? Setting up an ex-athlete so they can go off. I mean, you're still on the air and you're still working in the realm of sports, which is still basically the toy department of life. That's right.

That's right. Let's get you on the radio here because at some point, and I, okay, so Rogers owns Sportsnet. Rogers owns 590, the fan. And you end up, so tell me, how do you end up getting on the fan 590? Is that just because Rogers decided to do what Rogers does and use you on a different platform? What happened there? I think I got caught in the middle because Super Dave,

my old friend, the Super Dave years, he took me aside and he said, we want you to be our opinion guy. Opinion, that's the key to sports. So they gave me the radio show with Mike Hogan, and I was the backup host for Bob McCown for a while. And I did a, I think I did a three times a week editorial called Behind the Mic on Sportsnet Connected.

And I was one of their calmness and bloggers. That's clever too, because your name is Mike. Yes, yes, very clever. Thank you. Yeah, I can't slip anything past you. Yeah, so I was the opinion guy and that didn't last very long. So about six months into that,

I noticed that everybody was getting a little antsy. So I went to my old boss, Super Dave, and that's when I decided, I could see the writing on the wall. Super Dave didn't like me. I didn't like him. So I thought, well, I got a year left in my deal. He ain't going to rehire me.

He ain't going to re-up me. So why am I going to work here? So with a year left in my Sportsnet he ain't going to rehire me. He ain't going to re-up me. So why am I going to work here? So with a year left of my Sportsnet deal, I went to Super Dave and I said, well, why don't you just buy me out? And he was very enthusiastic about doing that. He jumped at that. And I said, just out of curiosity, though, what's your problem? He goes, you're too opinionated.

You know. He said, you're hurting our brand. He says, you're criticizing the Blue Jays. You're criticizing the Leafs. You're criticizing the CFL, the Olympics, the UFC. And I'll never forget saying this to him. I said, so what does that leave me, Dave? The high school girls volleyball team down the street, are they fair game?

But, see, I got caught in the middle. To his credit, and I do believe that opinion is a big part of sports, but we got caught in the middle of the corporate way things had changed. All of a sudden, the broadcast companies are owning the very teams that they're supposed to be analyzing and delving into. And it's a very, very, very interesting relationship when you walk down that road. And you've got to mind your P's and Q's. I've talked to broadcast executives, and they've told me now straight out. They said, we can't have broadcasters criticizing our properties so you've got to be very careful you got to mind your p's

and q's and you got to let those ex-athletes be the designated hitters because they have the credibility and to the broadcast company's uh credit look at sportsnet i mean greg's on sometimes greg's on i'll say things about the blue jays or the management or the ownership and i'm thinking oh my god he's gonna get in trouble for that. Or Don Sherry. Everybody knows how he takes the floor and does what he does. So to their credit, these companies are allowing some people to have their say. It's just that the traditional broadcaster isn't one of the people they want having their say anymore.

He's just there to be the director of traffic. And that's how it's changed. Well, you know, I mentioned you're the third Mike Gaston. I won't say whether it's Mike Stafford or Mike Wilner. I won't say which one, but one of them criticized Cito Gaston and got suspended. Right. Just got taken off the air. I don't remember a week or two.

I can't remember now. But, you know, I asked him, like did rogers tell you why and he basically said no they just said go home uh didn't would never say why and then we were all left to infer that it was because of the aceto thing but it was never said by rogers you know like they never said it just according to him the same thing happened to me when i got in trouble for what i said about the female sportscasters my boss phoned me at home he goes you know those shifts you're supposed to pull next week and i said yeah, yeah. Don't worry about it. Just take them on. And I said, well, is it about the

Globe and Media thing? Yeah, as I said, just take a few days off. Yeah, yeah. They're very careful. They're well coached by HR. Well, as I said, a lot of this pressure on modern day broadcasters is for lack of a better term, inferred. I mean, they don't actually sit you

down and say, although sometimes they do. Actually, now that I think about it, I've had that discussion. But a lot of times, let's put it this way, a lot of times it's just understood that, hey, you know, if you want to pay your mortgage every couple of weeks, be careful what you say. And there's a lot of pressure, Mike, on broadcasters. Now, I had a conversation with a radio executive about this not long ago, and he said, look, we can't have you criticizing our properties. So I thought to

myself, well, okay. So one of two things happen. You go out there and you become basically a shill, or you go out there and every time you open your mouth, you're wondering, am I going to be able to put food in the mouths of my kids because of something I said? So there's a lot of pressure on modern broadcasters now. I can imagine. I can imagine. And you notice that, you know, we'll get cover the Bell Media cuts, whereas you could, you know, CBC and Globe and Mail and these other entities would write up about all the big names like Dan Matheson and Sunil Joshi and all these guys.

So yeah, and I always, I ask this of all the, I have a lot of Rogers guys who come in and I always ask, like, do you feel like Eric Smith, do you feel any pressure not to criticize this? Or it can't be fun to cover the team that is owned by the place that signs you. Well, there's no, I mean, you talk to any broadcaster, if they're telling you the truth, there's no question that the media business isn't as much pure fun as it used to be. It's still a great gig. I mean, it beats digging ditches any day of the week. Who are we kidding? Sure. You're

working in the realm of sports, which is a lot of fun, even though sports can be very serious, especially in the modern world. But I mean, it's still sports, so it's still a good gig. But is it as fun as the days when we were on Sports at 11 back in Calgary in the early years of Sportsnet, when we felt like we could say anything? In fact, we're encouraged to say and do anything? No, the answer is no, of course. No. And a question from a guy named Christian on Twitter, and this ties in nicely to what you were just saying, but he asks, why do reporters and news outlets find it hard

to ask real tough questions of our athletes and sports teams? But he adds, Toth always sought truth. Yeah, well, I appreciate that, but here's the funny thing, and you can go on the internet and go on social media and find this. Even when I did ask tough questions, a lot of times you get criticized for asking tough questions by the very people you think would be in your corner, media people. You'll go to a news conference and you'll ask a tough question. I'll say, oh, you know, who is this guy? I mean, he doesn't come to practice on a regular basis.

Why is he asking that? Or why is he asking that? He's just going to get the coach upset. Now the coach won't talk to the rest of us. So a lot of times you'll get your hands slapped by the very people you think would celebrate the questions you're asking. On the other hand, you'll also get the old hardball guys like Steve Buffery is one of my all-time favorites with Toronto Sun. And when I would go and mix it up in a news conference with an athlete or a coach or a manager, Steve would always be one of the first ones to come up and say,

Toler, it's not the same when you're not here. I love that. I love how you mix it up. But he's from the old school where, you know, that's what you got paid to do. When you were a broadcaster, all you were basically were a representative of the fans. So you'd get to go to places and have access where the fans couldn't go. So if you weren't asking tough questions, again, as I said before, in the old days, if you didn't have somebody mad at you,

you weren't doing your job. And if you weren't asking tough questions, you weren't doing your job. Now you go to a lot of news conferences, and the heavy hitters don't even ask questions. And I can understand that. They've got a mortgage to pay. conference and the heavy hitters don't even ask questions because and i can understand that they got a mortgage to pay why are they going to get up there and and put their jobs in jeopardy by putting a coach or an athlete on the spot they'll just sit back and you know we we have the term

hockey insiders now and and god love them but hockey insiders and there's certainly a role for them they give inside information that fans can't get but hockey insiders are certainly not the people who provide opinion that's not their role right so in terms of hard-hitting opinion and hard-hitting questions a lot of times those things go by the wayside because again i think too many broadcasts and i understand it you got to pay your mortgage you got to feed your kids you've got to serve the corporate master and it's tough and hey you got to be a show well you've got to be a pr guy you've got to feed your kids. You've got to serve the corporate master and it's tough. And hey, you've got to be a show. Well, you've got to be a PR guy. You've got to be a promotions, public relations presenter, as opposed to a hard hitting broadcast journalist. The role of the job and basically the qualifications of the job have really changed.

And that segues nicely to Mark. Mark on Twitter who wants me to ask you about the questions that you asked Dion during Salute Gate. Speaking of questions and media scrums. Well, of course, Salute Gate. Oh, my, what a nightmare that was for the Leafs last year. It's so good to see the Toronto Maple Leafs under Babcock this year, by the way. They're working hard.

Yes. The new term, Mike, you know the new term in hockey is structure. There's always a, you've got to be a 200-foot player. Now the new term is structure. Basically structure means you're playing your position and you're working your butt off. That's what structure is, and that's what the Leafs are doing

under Babcock. But last year was a complete nightmare. Nobody was working hard. We all know about the problems they have with the fans and the media, so of course they have that situation where they decide they're not going to salute the fans. So I went down there, News Talk 1010 sent me down there and said, well, I'll get to the bottom of this. So we went down there and I said, well, Dion, he was the spokesman of the team. He's the captain. I said, what, what was it all about? And he goes, well, he said, we just wanted to, it was nothing against the fans or anybody we just wanted to change things up and try and get something going and i said well how does

sticking it to the fans uh excuse the term sticking it to the fans not sticking it to the fans i guess is a better term by lifting your stick up but you know what i mean how does that help you win a hockey game not saluting the fans and he said well you know in hockey a lot of times or in sports you just change things up you're looking to change your routine around. And I go, but how does that help you win a game? Well, you know, I said, finally, I said, Dion, let me ask you this. I said, why don't you do what they did in the old days of college football and grab a chicken and bite the head off a chicken and get it over with?

I mean, maybe that will change your luck. And then the media guy, this is probably my shining moment in the media. Because the media guy with the Leafs, and I don't even know who it is. They fired all the guys I like, like Pat Park. Who was the other guy they had there? Oh, his name escapes me. Another great guy. But Pat Park was the chief media guy down there.

I loved Pat Park. He had a great sense of humor. He kept all the hound dogs at bay with that sense of humor. So they let him go for whatever reason. And the new guy comes up, and he kind of looks like he's somebody from the nazi gestapo or something or the cia he's dressed all up and he's got a very stern look on his face and he comes over he says hey you can't do that you can't do that to dion and i said who are you and i'm the media relation director of toronto maple east and i said oh yeah well you know we can take your media pass away and i said buddy i said i got news said, oh, yeah, well. He said, you know, we can take your media pass away.

And I said, buddy, I said, I got news for you. I haven't even picked it up yet. Do you think I want to sit up here until hours and a night watching your hockey team play? And he went, look at that. Now, it wasn't exactly the most classy thing to say, but I have to say, in the moment of what I was dealing with and the way the season was going for the Toronto Maple Leafs,

it actually felt pretty darn good saying that. And I never did pick up my media pass, as it turned out, because as I said, let's be serious, who really did want to sit up there late at night and watch last year's team play? It's like the only time in my life I can remember I had to stop watching. Yeah, this year's team is different. I like watching them. They won me over, yeah. Yeah, because they work hard and I like what Babcock is doing, but last year's team was a mess.

And for some reason, I just like James Reimer. There's something about that kid. I just didn't like it when they went and got Bernier. I just felt like... Well, nothing against Bernier, but again, here we go with the Sportcasting Clichés 101. It's nice to see good things happen to good people, and Reimer, believe me, because I've been down there enough

and talked to the guy, he's a legitimately good guy. I can't even picture him saying a bad thing about somebody. Yeah, he's a great guy. I mean, and it's fantastic. I have a Team Reimer shirt upstairs. You can't meet a nicer guy in sports, so all the power to him. Okay, so why did you end up leaving the Fan 590? Super Dave.

Super Dave got me again. Super Dave. Super Dave. Shit, man. Well, because Nelson Millman wanted to keep me on at the fan when my contract was, like, I was the one who went to them, and I said, look, buy me out. But I'm not kidding anybody.

We used to have meetings at Sportsnet all the time, and Super Dave would do something, and we'd say, okay, he's got to get fired now. But he never was. He was never getting fired. So finally, with a year left on my TV deal, I said, this guy's never if he's not going to be fired now he had us doing a stupid thing i don't want to get into it but

believe me no i want you to get into that well remember the clothes we used to wear for a while there he had us in the leather pants and we weren't wearing ties and i was too embarrassed to even watch my own network i used to love watching the guys do the shows like if darren millard and brad faye were doing a show and I wasn't on, I was at home watching it because I was really proud of where we took Sportsnet because we took them from nothing to basically a substantial entity, at least TSN.

We had their attention anyway. And then Super Dave came in with all his fashion ideas and his ideas of how he was going to reinvent broadcasting. And not one of those ideas, by the way, has lasted. They're all gone, as I knew they would. But he kept throwing all his spaghetti at the wall. And we said, this guy's got to go now because nothing he's tried has worked. But he stayed there, stayed there.

So I went for the buyout. He gave it to me. But I still wanted to stay at the radio station because I loved working at the fan. I loved Nelson Mealman. And Nelson is another guy who's an old broadcaster. He just gets it. He gets the broadcast business. And he wanted to keep me on the fan.

But Super Dave said, no, we can't have that. We can't have him bought out by the Sportsnet and have him on our Sportsnet 590 airwaves. So that's why I left the fan 590. It's too bad. I loved working there. And I loved working with Mike Hogan, who, of course, is now at TSN Radio. Right, right. So basically you let go by Super Dave. Super Dave. I left the fan 590. It's too bad. I loved working there, and I loved working with Mike Hogan, who, of course, is now at TSN Radio. Right, right.

So basically you let go by Super Dave. Super Dave. Gets you a second time. And so what's the gap between 590 and 1010? Oh, just a couple of weeks. Oh, nice. That's nice. That's the best, right?

Yeah, I wasn't out for very long, and God bless Mike Ben Dixon. Mike is one of the smartest guys I've ever worked with. I mean, he's another guy who just gets it. So many times, the four and a half years I worked at Newstalk 1010, he'd come up to me and he'd say, hey, you should think about doing this. And 99% of the time I'd say, you know what, he's right. And you have respect for a guy like that because he lives radio and he takes it very seriously. Well, I know he listens closely and he shares lots lots of feedback you'd be amazed that's a good point

mike you'd be amazed at how many people are in a management position who don't know anything about their own property they don't even listen to their own station believe me mike ben dixon listens to yeah i've had a couple of i understand he's uh and he'll he'll give you tips and he'll give you feedback on specific things, like mentioning your name or mentioning the time and all these frequencies. He listens very closely. Yeah, you just have to work with him for a short time. And God bless News Talk 1010. It's a great operation.

But Mike, believe me, is a guy who's going to go on to even bigger and better things in his career because he's just so smart and he gets the radio and broadcasting game. And it was a real pleasure to work there. I mean, I had a very small role, obviously. I mean, I did six sportscasts in the morning and did a daily editorial for them. That's basically what I did. They paid me very well to do it because I was a veteran guy.

I loved working with John Moore. Moore in the morning had very good ratings, and the ratings were getting better all the time. There was a lot of credibility behind the show. I loved working with the newsroom team. I can't say a bad word about the place. With that said, when he tapped me on the shoulder and told me the jig was up, I knew it was coming

because it's kind of like the pitcher who's getting blasted out in the mound, and the pitching coach comes out, and the pitcher says, what took you so long? I mean, when you're the only sportscaster on a radio station, it's called News Talk 1010, especially in today's modern media world, you're living on borrowed time. And I understood that. So there were no hard feelings at all. So this is super recent though. This was last Monday. Last Monday. Okay. The interesting thing about these cuts was that because of the laws of the union or whatever, they had to tell CRTC.

Who were they telling? Oh, don't ask me about that stuff. They had to tell somebody. Yeah, I don't know anything about that. They had to give them a heads up that we're letting go these many people in these markets. So we all knew. Oh, I knew. It was in the public domain that 390 people were getting cut.

I avoided the layoffs a couple of years ago at Bell. I mean, they laid off three very good newscasters at our radio station. And I'm sure all of them, as they were going out the door, said, what about Tove? Because I was thinking the same thing. And so when Mike tapped me on the shoulder and said it was coming, I said, Mike, I said, no hard feelings, man. I appreciate you fighting for me for as long as you did. I said, I was here for what, four and a half years? That's probably... And it's way over his head here.

Oh yeah, that's probably three, four years longer than I thought. Yeah, so you were there since 09, right? So I don't know. Again, you lose... Is that where... Yeah, yeah, 09. So it was a long time and it was a great time. As I said, I have very fond memories of those guys. I have nothing bad to say about News Talk 1010. The thing that I've learned in my current situation, if you want to wrap this puppy up, what do you learn about my situation? Well, if I learn anything, you have to be careful about the expectations you have for people. Because I'm sure I've disappointed a lot of people. I'm sure that people have had expectations for me and what i'm saying is i've heard from so many people that that's one thing about losing your job and about social media i mean i can't believe how many people

be they listeners or old viewers from the sports net days or even in the calgary days or the tsn days who've come forward on social media, on Twitter or whatever, Gmail, whatever, and have talked to me through the last couple of weeks and said how sorry they were and given me some different pieces of advice. It's been incredible, really. But what that's taught me is you have to be careful about expectations. In my career, I've had certain expectations for maybe people I worked with before, and I thought, well, you know, I mean, I'm sure they're going to do something good for me. But because of the situation that they're in, or maybe there's just no room for me at that time,

whatever, whatever the reason may be, some of those people haven't delivered. But then other people you don't have any expectations for, sometimes they're the ones who come to the forefront with the best help and the best advice. It's like me. I found out a good buddy of mine, just because of my situation, he sent me an email and he said, oh, sorry about it. And I said, oh, thanks, Mitch. His name's Mitch Peacock. He used to work at CBC in Winnipeg. He's done some stuff for Hockey Night in Canada and CBC National. That's a great name, by the way. Mitch Peacock, the Birdman. That's what I call him, the Birdman. We go way back. And he now is the play-by-play guy for the Manitoba Moose, the American Hockey League, and does some PR work for

them. And I thought when I saw that on Twitter a while back, I thought that Mitch had made that decision on his own. Oh, well, he always had a taste for play-by-play. He's getting back into it. So I said, congratulations, Mitch. Well, through my own situation, he said, well, yeah, the same thing happened to me. I was laid off at CBC about a year ago and I was very close to Mitch, but you know how life is. You got three kids. I've got two. I mean, he's got a kid. I mean, life takes over and sometimes you don't keep in touch with the people you should in life, not because you don't love them and you don't care about them. It's just that time gets in your way and circumstances get in your way. And big bad life has a way of rearing its ugly head.

I mean, things happen. And so I said, oh, geez, Mitch, I didn't know you got laid off. I had no idea. So he was probably at home thinking, geez, I told, I get laid off. He doesn't even send me an email. So just be careful about the expectations you have for people in terms of your job search. Don't go into any situation with any expectations. Try to plant seeds as positive as you can, but don't put the pressure of expectation on people.

Just listen to what they have to say. Reach out to your contacts, but don't expect that people are going to hand you life on a silver platter. It's just not going to happen. And the other thing that I've really learned is because in my career, I didn't just burn some bridges. I napalmed some bridges. Like I was really bitter because some of those people that I had expectations for maybe didn't deliver in the way that I thought they should or would. And so bitterness takes over. And bitterness is the worst emotion you can have because it's such a selfish emotion. You can be bitter at people. Do you think those people care?

They don't even know that you're bitter. They don't care that you're bitter. They don't have time. They're involved in their own lives just like you are. So what I learned, and as I say, I have no bitterness or no ill wills towards News Talk 1010. And it's funny because a month or so ago, I was starting to formulate some of these thoughts, too. And I was realizing it's too bad of the timing.

But I was realizing, you know, a lot of that bitterness that I had towards some of the people in the past, like people who have wronged me, like maybe people who have misquoted me, like Bruce Dalbiggins in the Globe and Mail and maybe the Toronto Sun, and maybe I was bitter at some people at Sportsnet and some of the people in my past. All of a sudden, those things started to fade a little bit, and I started to think about some of the good times. And it's funny because then when you get laid off, you hear from a lot of those people from your old days who also appreciate some of the good times, but for whatever reason, life takes over.

You haven't had a chance to talk to them for a while. So as bad as it is to get laid off, and you don't wish it on anybody. I mean, I still wish I was getting paid every two weeks. Well, I am until the end of February, but you know what I mean. There are some good things that come in a situation like this. You recognize the humanity in people. You realize there are so many good people in the world who do care about you, who will reach out.

And you also look in the mirror and you say, okay, well, what's the point of being bitter? What's the point of being negative? It's not going to get me anywhere. I've got to move forward. I have no choice. I sit down at my breakfast table every morning and there's a great picture of my two little lads

when they were just little guys having fun together. And you're sitting there eating your morning cereal as you're getting set for another day of a job search and you go, I have no choice. I got to do it for those guys. So bitterness and negativity, what's that going to get you? You're going to have tough times. Of course you are, but you got to keep moving forward. Are you worried at all about your future in this, basically this media landscape that seems to be getting smaller and smaller? I don't know if there's a home for me anymore in traditional media. I don't know. I hope so. I mean, I think I still have something to offer. I think I have a

lot of creativity. I think I have a lot of ability. I think I have a lot of talent, and whether or not anybody wants to hear it or not, I think I have a lot of good sports opinion, as we talked about. I don't know if that's a positive or a negative anymore. Well, Dick Smythe's got to retire at some point. Is he still alive? I think he's still working

out east, I think. Yeah, I don't know. There's a blast from the past, like, Paul Harvey, good day! He's gone, yeah. I think Paul Harvey's gone. there's a blast from the past like Paul Harvey good day he's gone yeah I think Paul Harvey's gone now you know the rest of the story yeah we're of the same

vintage for sure on that one yeah so we'll see I mean hey you walk that path and you see what's out there and you hope

that maybe some of the good things that you did on and off camera on and off microphone are remembered by the people in power. But again, you can't have expectations for people.

All you can do is keep on keeping on. Mike, that's about all you can do. Here's hoping Mike Toth lands on his feet because I would listen. Thank you, sir. I appreciate that. And you know what? You're a handsome guy. You could be on TV again.

Yes. I'm 220 pounds of twisted steel, well, 250 pounds of twisted steel. You know you look a bit like Paul Gross, a little bit. The gross part? Yeah. Heavy on the gross. Heavy on the gross.

And that brings us to the end of our 145th show. The Big 145. You can follow me on Twitter at Toronto Mike. And Mike is at Mike Toth Media. Follow him and make him a job offer. See you all next week. I want to take a street car downtown Read Andrew Miller and wander around