Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Mike Wilner: Toronto Mike'd #1028

Episode Date: April 6, 2022

In this 1028th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined by Mike Wilner of the Toronto Star as they catch up and prime Blue Jays fans for the 2022 season. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Patrons like you.

Welcome to episode 1028 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta.

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Learn more at cannacabana.com. Joining me this week to deliver our 2022 Blue Jays primer from the Toronto Star, Mike Willner. How's it going, Mike? It's lovely. What a nice intro. Thank you so much. And sorry if I looked like I was being rude while you were doing that intro because I was looking at my phone. But when you said episode 1028, I thought, ah, that's interesting because it feels like maybe October 28th is a significant date in Blue Jays history.

Oh, wow. But I looked it up and it's not. What is the date we're thinking of? They won the World Series in 92 on October 24th. Oh, so close. And then in 93 on October 23rd. Okay, close, close, but no cigar. But I'm glad you're here, man.

This is the first Backyard episode of Toronto Mic'd in 2022. I am honoured and thrilled to be here. My first Backyard ever, so I'm very excited. Is that right? Have you ever recorded a podcast outdoors? ever so I'm very is that right so you never have you ever recorded a podcast outdoors um I've done interviews for my wildly successful deep left field we're gonna get into that don't worry done those you know on on the ball field like outside um but never a full no not a full podcast start to finish well it's exciting to me that this is your first and uh you know during

this pandemic I've done a bunch out here and I had your uh mentor i don't know if that's the right word we should use but peter gross was out here in like minus five degrees like so this is actually a nice day for the backyard because we're above zero yeah i believe that gross would be out here in minus five and happy to do it. Peter Gross, a mentor is too strong. I kind of consider Cheek to be my mentor. Right, Tom Cheek. Gross, I think, is responsible for me having

a career in broadcasting. He's a huge figure in my life. I knew when I said that word mentor. That was way too heavy for the great Peter Gross. But I loved so many things I loved about Gross, especially how pedantic he was and how, you know, he was a big grammar cop and I really did enjoy that about him.

It was a kindred spirit that way. Well, he's back here. Actually, I might put him in the basement. We'll see how it goes. But he's here next week. So people are hankering for some more Peter Gross. Come back to Toronto Mike next week. You're going to let him out of the basement at some point, though, right?

We'll see. So the first thing I have is not a question. This is from TheCleaningGuy on Twitter. TheCleaningGuy says, No question, a comment. I listen to lots of baseball-specific podcasts, and I believe Mike's is the best. I think he's talking about you not me but he gets great player interviews and celebrity fans who have an opinion on baseball

five stars this guy's talking about deep left field that's that's very kind uh i i don't know the cleaning guy i know he's got that avatar of Breaking Bad and Bryan Cranston in there. So I've seen his tweets. Walter White. It's very kind. And look, we didn't know what Deep Left Field was going to be when we started it last year. It was just a way for me to continue to sort of be on the radio. Right. But I really like what it's evolved into. And I do feel like it is the baseball podcast up here in Canada that puts you on the field more than any other one does.

And I know you want to get to it later, but I want to do it just because it's here. The shameless promotion of the opening day extravaganza. Yeah, do it. On the show that will drop on April 7th the day before opening day you'll hear me talking to Bo Bichette Jose Barrios, Alec Manoa Jordan Romano

Danny Jansen Luis Rivera the third base coach and I wanted to talk to him specifically because he was there in 15 and 16 and he's still there now and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. so I honestly believe there's not a podcast that puts you closer to the action, or any show, really, that puts you closer to the action

and gets right up close and personal with the actual newsmakers of the sport, the people on the field, than mine does. And I'm really, really proud of it. And don't forget... And you were on it, too. I was going to say, this is my next sentence. Don't forget, I made an appearance on Deep Left Field with Mike Wilner.

And we were, the week of your appearance, we were number one in Canada as far as baseball podcasts. That's called the Toronto Mike bump that you enjoyed there. So, no, that was fun, and I was going to ask you how I did, but it sounds like it went pretty well. So that was fun. And I was going to ask you how I did, but it sounds like it went pretty well. So that's awesome. It was a lot like this where, you know, it's your podcast, but I'm talking a lot. It was my podcast, but you were hosting a lot and I'm hosting yours a lot.

I took over yours. You can take over mine. This is our relationship. Okay. So you mentioned, you know, your podcast, Deep Left Field, is a chance to kind of recreate some of that Jay's talk, you know, audio, if you will. But Gare Joyce, you know Gare? I do. He's got an idea.

He's got an idea, and I'm digging it. I think you should come back here in the summer in the backyard, hopefully warmer than today, and we should have it so that you're on toronto mic but you're kind of hosting jay's talk and i will actually have people who want to ask questions about the 2022 blue jays call in and you'll be like having these callers ask you stuff and you'll be like like calling in real time would you yeah real time yeah oh look we've been trying to figure out a way to do that with Deep Left Field. So I would, for you, anything.

So I'd be happy to do that. So use me as like a test bed. That could be the test show. Because I can handle the tech part where people in real time can call in and you won't see them. You'll just hear them like back in the day. And it'll be like a a jay's talk recreation

in 2022 that i think people will dig and if it if it's a good proof of concept you can uh take that over to deep left field i would be happy to all right gare another good gare's full of good ideas by the way uh smart guy way to go way to go uh by the way, Norm Rumack. Heard of him? The late night vampire. He writes me, Mike told me a few years ago that for a while he was screening calls to my show in the early days of the fan. I didn't remember that or how long he was in that role. So this is sort of a fun fact. So share with us and then I'll tell you who was on my show yesterday.

But you did board op work for Norm Rumeck? Not board op work, but I was in the producer chair answering phones. I did it for Norm. I did it for Jory Middlestad. I was an intern at the fan in 1993. Yeah, I remember it was 93 because I was down at the clubhouse after a game once and Jack Morris, my future colleague and broadcast partner yelled at me for asking a question he didn't like. So yeah, as part of that, the month or so that I was there

I screened calls for RUMAC and for Jory. I did work in the bullpen and it wasn't very long but absolutely Strombo was on the board back then so yeah it was a blast. Do you know maybe you might have saw a tweet or maybe you subscribed to Toronto Mic'd which you should I'm going to check your phone before you go make sure

but do you know who was on my show yesterday? I saw a tweet and I'm trying to remember your phone before you go, make sure. But do you know who was on my show yesterday? I saw a tweet, and I'm trying to remember. I've been trying to remember ever since you said that 45 seconds ago. I'm hurt, by the way. Give me a hint. I was shaking about the bacon. Oh, Spider. Spider Jones.

Oh, I love Spider Jones. So he was talking about his board op would be like strombo and then jeff merrick and like this like who's who of canadian media just kind of plowing through it really is something i was only there for again that month or so in 93 but the roster there yeah i mean elliot friedman was there eric was dan shulman's hanging around shulman was there eric smith was a producer strombo was on the board. It's wild, right? It was insane.

So when you have these active members of the Blue Jays on Deep Left Field, do you find, and I do listen to Deep Left Field, but do you find they have something substantial to say? Because I'm reminded of like Bob McCowan on Primetime Sports would always brag like no active athletes cause they don't say anything like this was like a thing. Would you agree or disagree with Bob McCowan sentiment there? Well, I mean he was pretty hockey centric, right?

That that shows pretty hockey centric and McCowan always used to complain hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, right? Right. Hockey players never say anything, never. And it's part of the culture of hockey players never say anything never and it's part of the culture of hockey to never say anything and i you know i don't know that that a lot of active athletes have a ton to say especially if you're in that format where you're talking to them for seven minutes and you know um but look i last week last week on deep field, the episode that's currently up now, because I know you're going to turn this thing around, uh, real,

real quick and it'll drop before the new deep left field comes out. But last week I had Kevin Gosman for 25 minutes. Um, I'd stopped him in the parking lot and on the way back to his car in Dunedin, we had arranged that we were going to talk at some point in time. And I thought, all right, why not try? And it was great. He talked about growing up in Colorado and he talked about his uh you know watching Roy Halliday we joked about um I asked him if he knew because he talked about how um Doc had been rebuilt and made it all the way back you know which is a story that every Blue Jays fan knows

uh and I said to him yeah because the before, he had set the major league record for the highest ERA by any pitcher, a 40-inning minimum. And I said, that record's since been broken. It was broken by a teammate of Gosman's in Baltimore. And I was like, do you know? And he goes, oh, yeah, and Brian Mattis knows it really well too because he was the guy. And, you know, we talked about all sorts of things

and how um how he fits into the blue jays rotation and and how he marveled at how different each one of the five of them are uh or is and we you know we got some some good stuff and some depth for sure and it's not all like i'm not gonna sit there and if a guy wants to say, I didn't do 110%, I didn't help the team, whatever. I'm not going to put that on the air. So, you know, 25 minutes with Gosman, 20 with David Phelps talking about his, the injury that cost him all last season and the rehab and all that stuff. Yeah, I do think there are a lot of athletes who don't have anything to say.

I certainly would never cast aspersions on Bob because I would know, I know he wants to do those in depth, long form, really find out stuff interviews. And I, I get to do those, you know, these aren't the three and a half minute pregame interviews of,

you know, how was last night's game? Um, I, I think I'm getting really, really good stuff out of these athletes. And you got great stuff out of me to go straight to number one on the charts. What a moment.

Am I going to be invited back? Next labor dispute, I'm back. Is that the deal? That's right. Next time I got six months to kill? That was a big week for me, okay? You were beautifully profiled in the Toronto Star. That's right. Yeah, there was a CBC thing, and then there was a Toronto Star thing, and then there was a Toronto Star thing,

and then there was a Deep Left Field Toronto Star podcast. We had to. We had to have you on. You are a Toronto icon. Oh, my goodness. I'm going to extract that clip, and I'll make that part my bumper. I told you when you were on my show,

so I will tell you, because hopefully we have some audience overlap. We've got it. We've got it. I don't think we have a ton, but I love the fact that you are so connected to Toronto.

You're so connected to the Toronto of our youth, even though you're like seven years younger than me. It's very similar. I don't think that's true. How old are you? Am I allowed to ask?

52? Yeah, I'm four. I'm 47. Okay, so you're five years younger than me. Yeah, I thought it was only one or two, but then you said something on my podcast and made me think, oh, no, I'm alive. I didn't remember the labor dispute of 81.

81, right. I didn't remember. Because you were six, but I was 11. Right. But, I mean, the things you talk about, the things you used to blog about, the fact that you're into byway, you know, and that sort of thing.

I really love that someone who feels so connected to the city has now become part of the fabric of the city with the work you do on this podcast and the people you come up with to talk. I think it's fantastic. I really do. You're a big part of all that. For sure. Your buddy, Stu Stone, is here every month for Toast. Pandemic Fridays morphed into Toast. And I know that Stu had you. I always mention this every time you come on. You were

in Stu's movie. Yeah. Yeah. Jack of all trades. Yeah. And that's on your IMDb page, right? Like that's a big deal. Did that get there? I don't know. I don't think it is. It should be there. I think the only thing on my IMDB page is the Thrillusionists, which Stu also directed. That's another. So shout out to Stu Stone, who better be listening. And we found out on that, by the way, that Stu's great partner,

Adam Rodness, is a cousin of mine. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I don't know, fourth or fifth or something. Adam hasn't made his Toronto Mike debut yet. He's holding out, I think. He's holding out for more lasagna. On that note,

by the way, Peter Gross is here next week, primarily because he leaves with a large lasagna from Palma Pasta, and he loves his Palma Pasta. I would say, no, I mean,

other than Zoom, the last time I saw you, Mike Wilner, was, believe it or not, TMLX mean, other than Zoom, the last time I saw you, Mike Wilner, was, believe it or not, TMLX5, which was December 2019 at Palma's Kitchen. Yep. And there's that

great photo of you and Peter Gross at the table. What a moment. And it's been a while, but you're leaving here with another meat lasagna from Palma Pasta. I'll trade it in for a veggie. I'm going to bring you a veggie. I can veggie. I'm going to bring you a veggie. I can do that.

I'm going to bring you a veggie. Absolutely. Peter Gross was there, and Perry Lefkoe, whose late sister Robin used to babysit me, was there as well. Perry's close with Spider Jones, so it all connects.

I was on a bike ride two days ago, and the phone rings. I can't see the number because I'm biking, but I press the button on my Bluetooth headset, and I'm like, hello? And it's somebody going, trying to make a spider drone. It's an imitation of spider but I can tell it's not spider. And I'm like, this is someone pretending to be

spider and it was Perry Lefkoe. So there you go. He has a history. His wife, I think, worked with spider in some capacity. But okay. Lots of ground to cover before we prime everybody for the 2022 Blue Jays season. Can we do one shout out first? No, here, let me crack open my Great Lakes beer because I'm excited to be outside with you.

Although I'm seeing, there's a pirate stream, live.torontomike.com, where we broadcast live. And people are saying it looks frosty. That's VP of sales. Canada Kev says the beer looks frosty. That's true. I'm about to crack it open. YYZ said it feels colder than the thermostat says he wouldn't want to be sitting outside

for an hour little does YYZ Gord know this is going to be several hours Mike get comfortable the brother Neil is saying that 12 degrees in Mississauga but it feels like 9 I just want to let people know we're by the lake here it's not this is not 9 degrees it feels like about 4

4 degrees by the lake it's always colder not, this is not nine degrees. It feels like about four. Yeah. It's about four degrees by the lake. It's always colder at this time of year. And a shout out to, yeah, everybody who's joined us live. I'm going to crack open my Great Lakes beer. There you go. Love it.

The live crack open. This is a burst. Oh, thank you. Great Lakes brewery for the support and sending over the beer. I'll try not to spill it on my keyboard. I have a sticker you.com. You got your Toronto Mike sticker somewhere prominent

in the Wilner household? Just say yes. I believe I do. Okay, good. I got a thank you to sticker you.com for their support. It's chilly out here, so I have a toque for you on the table. I know you brought one, but there is another toque that's courtesy of Canna Cabana.

Go to cannacabana.com. They will not be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories over 100 locations across this fine country. So keep yourself warm with the Canna Cabana hat. And last but not least, Ridley Funeral Home. That's a measuring tape, Mr. Wilner. You never know when you have to measure something. Insert joke here. But shout out to Ridley Funeral Home.

Thank you, everybody. Thank you to all. The shout out was going to be, by the way, to Myrna and Lou. Myrna and Lou Lefkoe. Wonderful. The parents of Perry. Best friends of my great aunt and uncle way back in the neighborhood on Sorrel Avenue.

They were lovely people, Myrna and Lou. I've been trying to get Elliot Lefkoe on my program and he has politely declined, even though he's given this podcast a five-star review in Apple Podcasts. So he loves the show, just not enough to appear on it, but that's another story for another day. All right, so let's quickly recap the ongoing history of Mike Wilner. Viraj, he writes in, other than your current role, what is your dream job in baseball?

I think I know the answer, but what is your dream job? I think you had it. I did. I had it. I mean, TV would have been nice because that's where the dough is, but I've never been under any illusions that I'm pretty enough to work on television. You're no Joe Siddle, but you're close.

Joe Siddle, I mean, and congratulations to Joe for the Canadian Screen Award yesterday. He was back here last summer in that backyard. Danny Shulman won a Canadian Screen Award yesterday too, so awesome. And they're both phenomenal human beings as well as really outstanding broadcasters. And they both, like yourself, they both appeared on episode 1,000 of Toronto Mike's.

So you're good people. Yeah, thank you. But look, that's the dream job. And Colin Ballgames was such a blast, and being part of that broadcast for 20 years was incredible. And look, for me anyway, who grew up in radio, was doing it since I was 18 years old, that was the top of the mountain. So that's the dream job.

I have to say, had I never done that, had that not been in the cards for me, what I'm doing now would be the dream job. You know, a sports columnist for the biggest paper in the country and uh they're backing me with this great new podcast and and uh yeah so so anytime i think about you know the old gig and think you know how much i miss it uh and and i do um this is absolutely the next best thing and you know and more importantly it's with a place that is supportive and with a place that wants me to succeed

and is yeah it's a great environment to be in do you ever step back and realize how damn lucky you are that you just thought of like dream jobs and you had them both like think about that how many people can say that that's crazy it really is mind-blowing especially you know who who among our generation growing up in this city would imagine that this was possible right um no? Nobody local had ever called Jay's Games on the radio. And yeah, to get to have done that is crazy.

And then to move into this, who loses a job in 2020 in media and gets another job in media? Well, someone I know I want to ask you about next. You ready? Yeah. Okay. So when you were opting for Norm Rumack, I'm guessing it was easy because you're familiar

with being around Norms. See where I'm going here? I do. I'm working on my segues. It took me a thousand episodes. But you're comfortable around Norms. Your brother's not here. No.

Is he? No. But he has a new gig. Can you tell us about Norm Wilners? What is his new gig? He is the, I believe, a digital programmer or director of digital programming

for the Toronto International Film Festival, which is just phenomenal. But there's an example of a guy who got some bad, sort of like how you got from Rogers, he got some shit news from a place he loved working and then bounced back with another cool gig. A little different, but not much.

It's true. They told me I couldn't have the job anymore and for my brother, he sort of found out they weren't going to have a paper anymore or something. True, that's a little different, yeah. But look, he's done such good work over the last 35 years. And he's insinuated himself so well into that community and got to know the people at TIFF.

And he's hosted things at the Lightbox for them in the past. And they know what he's hosted things at the Lightbox for them in the past. And, you know, they know what he's capable of. And they know how talented he is in that industry. And so I'm absolutely thrilled. Like, you know, again, a phenomenal landing spot for him. And it just, yeah, we are, the two of us are exceedingly lucky. I mean, again, to to well he's not no longer working in media but um it's adjacent yeah i would say that's media adjacent but even

you know in the in the current landscape for uh straight white guys in their 50s to be able to land on their feet um is is uh is incredible so we're both very, very, very lucky and very happy. And, you know, without sounding whatever, we've earned it. We, you know, we work hard and we're good at what we do. And thankfully get recognized for it

by people who want to work with us. But what's concerning or insulting or both is that when you, me and Norm Wilner, your brother, got on Zoom early in the pandemic to do an episode I titled Wilner Squared, Norm revealed this week on the anniversary, the two-year anniversary, I believe, he revealed that he has zero memory of recording that episode. Yeah. And I have very vague memories of recording it too. When I saw your tweet about the anniversary, I was like, we did that?

He's like, he wants to listen to hear what he said because he has no memory of Wilner Square. Early days of the pandemic, right? We were all like, it was a month or so into lockdown. Everyone was trying to figure out what the hell was going on with the world. We were just

starting to learn about Zoom. Yeah, we were just figuring out how do we continue doing this without getting in the same room together. I mean, you and I are still not in the same room, because we're outside with the greatest ventilation there is. But yeah, I thought it was strange. He had like zero recollection of this appearance on Toronto Mic'd. It was a wild first couple of months, that's for sure.

But I do remember sitting in my dining room and seeing you both on Zoom, for sure. Okay, good. At least you remember that. Max D wants to know when the Let's Talk Sports episodes are going to be re-released. I think he wants them streaming somewhere. You've got to talk to Graham Cable about that, if you can find anyone from Graham Cable or Newton Cable.

I have some on VHS. Okay. Well, we should put that on YouTube or something. Because I remember watching it, but I think the vast majority of listeners are wondering what the hell we're talking about. Yeah. I would suggest the vast majority. Some people say, oh yeah, that's so obscure.

Most people are going to be lost. And I'm like, no, that's when I go hard. Let's reward the 1% that know what we're talking about and the other 99 can learn or like you know go away for a little bit and come back but i don't like this whole idea of like only talk about lady gaga and things people know not not here nothing wrong with finding out stuff you didn't know about before right and if you have listened to any mike willner episodes of trotter mike you've heard about Let's Talk Sports. Jake says, how did he decide a birdie on wordle?

Is that birdle or wordy? A birdie on wordle is four. Shouldn't it be five? No, a birdie is three. Par on wordle is four. Maybe that's the question, how I decided that par was four. Okay. Because I feel like that's what they expect you to be able to get the answer is for. Maybe that's the question, how I decided that par was for. Because I feel like that's what they expect you to be able to get the answer in for.

I don't know how deep down the Wordle rabbit hole you want to go. I mean, I know of it and I see it all over my social media feeds. I just don't actually, I've never actually played it. I enjoy it. It's a nice little exercise for your brain. For me me before I go to bed

for a lot of people when they wake up or whatever. But yeah, I think that they expect you to. I know there are a lot of people, my mother included, who use two different words, first and second, to sort of weed out the wrong letters. I don't do that. I put my first word in and then try to get it from that point on. I will not put in a word that I know is wrong. So I feel like they feel you should get it in four. So four is par, three is a birdie, five is a bogey, two is an eagle. Gotcha.

Okay. The super fun happy slide, that's the handle on Twitter, super fun happy slide says, on handle on twitter super fun happy slide says on behalf of his jay's talk fans would you bring up the giant kathleen win rubber ducky that occupied the harbor front in 2017 a trigger warning should probably be issued prior for mikey's sake we love our wilner rants bring up this one one too. Oh, maybe I missed something. Anyway, you didn't like the rubber ducky? I don't remember all this.

I don't remember. Because I enjoyed the rubber ducky. I thought it was hilarious. I took a few pictures of it. I remember posting them on Twitter. I might have said it was an enormous waste of money or something. I probably mentioned it.

But this isn't one of your great rants. No, I don't think so. Okay, so super fun happy slide. But I've forgotten a lot. Might have conflated a couple of things there. But Stefan wants to know what party you're donating your license plate refund money to. I don't know yet. I got to, the fervent hope, which will never happen for me,

is that the liberals and the NDPs either merge or decide to only run one candidate. Wasn't that an April Fool's joke? I saw it on April 1. Yeah, right. Because look, the truth of the matter is that generally two-thirds of voters vote Liberal and NDP and one-third votes Conservative, but they win majorities because we're stupid.

So I don't know. I think the best way to do it is to look at which candidate has the best chance of beating the Conservative candidate in your riding and donate towards them. So if I may, a quick aside, is that I can't remember the last time I voted for the person I wanted to win because I find, I may, a quick aside is that I can't remember the last time I voted for the person I wanted to win because I find, I think whether it's provincial or federal, I'm always voting strategically to block the party I don't want to win. Like it's been like that for so long. This system, first past the post, is flawed and we need ranked balloting. Flawed.

That is an understatement. Yeah. Yeah. It would be nice. And all the people who, you know, no matter what criticism there is of a conservative, all the people who immediately come back with, yeah, but Trudeau this or but Kathleen Wynne that, look, it would have been phenomenal if Justin Trudeau had followed through on the promise of electoral reform. Right.

if Justin Trudeau had followed through on the promise of electoral reform. Right. But the truth of the matter is that politicians don't want electoral reform because then it'll lose them their jobs and they, they're, you know, they're in it to keep their jobs. And what I hoped the lesson, one of the lessons of COVID would be was how about we stop electing people we

think would be cool to have a beer with and start electing, you know, how about we stop electing people we think would be cool to have a beer with and start electing, you know, nerds who actually understand policy and actually want to do things to help people instead of just have a cool job and a great pension. And I know in the province there's no pension, but, but that does not seem to be one of the lessons we've learned from COVID. And yesterday I got my check. The thing is my, I actually gave,

I donated my card to the Kidney Foundation in June 2020. So that's two years, almost two years ago. And I still got a check. I know, for 30 bucks. But it's like, okay. So Jill wants, Jill works at the great Torstar Empire

there. He says, ask Wilner if you aren't intending to already what he thinks about the whole sports betting market that's opened up of which his employer and mine are one of the players although they still need to be officially approved that was in parentheses i don't hope that's not talking out of school but i think we all know this please tell me what you think about sports betting taking over the sports media uh industry as far as I can tell. It really seems to, no?

I mean, I'm not doing much with the sports betting stuff, but I am doing a pitch talks event on Friday, opening day, at the Rec Room with the Parlay, which is in the sports gambling business. But it's not a betting, it's not a gambling event. I'm not planning to talk about it or anything. Look, go back 100 years, and people in the stands at baseball games

were fervently betting on what the next pitch would be. Never mind. So I think that people gamble on sports. I don't think that gambling is inherently bad. Uh, I, I do think that, that people absolutely develop gambling problems and, and that's horrible. Uh, and I think that there needs to be more done than just one line at the end of a commercial or one little tiny print whatever that says Scamblers Anonymous, call this. But I don't think it's inherently bad. And I've enjoyed doing it.

Never bet more than you can afford to lose, obviously. Don't chase your losses because that leads to big, big problems. But people do it. People enjoy it. So we're finally, people are talking about it as opposed to when we were in our 20s and they would have all these odds makers and whatever on the NFL preview shows, but they weren't really allowed to talk about whatever,

but they're saying who's going to beat the spread and all this stuff. Right, right. Know your limits, play within it. Just looking at the sky, I just want to do a little play-by-play of the weather. It feels like a little ominous. It does.

A storm is brewing. Originally, I thought that the storm would hit like at 5 p.m. when we were starting the recording, and then it kind of moved to 7, but who knows what's going on now. But I did put up, not only did I put up this shelter, but then I put a tarp on top of it because I don't think the shelter is actually waterproof.

I think it's like water resistant or something. We are very close to the Mississauga-Toronto border. Not far. And the weather app in Toronto says light rain starting in 27 minutes and in Mississauga, light rain starting in 11 minutes. Okay, so let's see how we do here. I might have to cover something, but let's get going. You reminded me, by the way, of my days at CIUT.

89.5 FM, 50,000 watts of power, buried at Buffalo Kitchen or at a Coburg. But very often during my radio show, I would say check in the CIUT Weather Center and just look out the window. Steve says you could ask him if there's any way, if it is in any way different now that he's working for an outlet that doesn't own the team he's covering

curious if he would admit to any difference than when working for Rogers I never felt impeded by Rogers in what I could say and was never told to ignore any stories or, or not cover something. Um, if I may, uh, cross-examine, did you find yourself at all self-censoring after the, uh, CETO situation? No, no, I didn't. Um, I think that might have been one of the purposes of the Cito situation, but no, I couldn't.

And it worked against me, I think, as time went on, that I did not, I felt like I could either be honest and talk about what was actually going on, or, you know, for lack of a better term, piss on your shoes and tell you that it's raining. And I never wanted to do that, and I've worked with a lot of people who have done that and tried to put a happy face on something

that is not happy at all. But no. You know, when you're the club broadcaster or on the club broadcast, you want to paint a pretty picture, but you also can't ignore the truth of what's happening in front of you. There's a, you know, there's, oh, that ball took a horrible bounce, or, oh, that guy just really screwed that up.

And, yeah, no, I, never shy about any of that. What felt like people always got on me for saying that I was too positive or, you know, for, for everyone who said I was too positive, there were also people who said I was too negative, which is either ridiculous or means you're doing exactly the right thing. Right, exactly. But the reason I sounded so positive was because of all the ridiculous negativity that kept being thrown my way. You know, there felt like there were no degrees of criticism. Everything was the worst thing in the world.

Right. And so me saying, you know, hold on a second, this is what's true, makes it feel like I'm constantly playing defense. But I'm constantly playing defense against awful takes, not playing defense for the team. Well, I had more than one, when I said you were coming on the show, more than one person said they were blocked

because they would throw it's early at you. I guess this is the... Yeah, I did that for a while. Yeah. And it's early. Like, I think somebody did it the day, I think the last day of the season last year when we got, when we were eliminated from the playoffs,

I guess it was the last day, uh, that he sent, you wouldn't tweet to say it's early, which is kind of funny. Did I block him? What's that? Did I block him?

Yeah, you blocked him, which I was saying, like, that is, that is a funny day to tweet that at you. Like, I feel like that's funny,

but if you're in the mode of like, I'm out of like, I'm tired of this, you're just going to blanket. see that's the thing it all depends on your mood i suppose it does and i decided to that i'm not gonna deal with um you know why why why keep my social media feed open to why why look at things that are gonna bother bother me? Look, the truth of the matter is a lot of people love to poke fun at the whole it's early thing because, yeah, in the middle of June, when the Blue Jays are six games out of a playoff spot, and I would say it's too early to worry about that, it's true.

And what's even funnier is that twice in the early days of Jay's talk, there was a team that was under.500 after the All-Star break that made the playoffs. And what people really don't understand is that it does not get late early in baseball, and there's always time to overcome a crappy game or a bad start. And I think what people intentionally misinterpret about that is that saying that it's still early enough

for them to overcome this means that it's okay that they lost this game crappily. That's not what it means. What it means is there's still lots of time to overcome it. And the Blue Jays almost proved it last year. Eric has a technical question for Mr. Wilner. When you're this big, he calls you Mr. He writes, a few years ago, the baseball press box behind home plate

was turned into VIP suites and reporters were sent to the old football press box in left field. Deep left field. Deep left field. That's the name of the podcast. Curious if there are challenges covering in-game action from that vantage point or if there's no difference at all thank you in advance he thanked us in advance which means you don't

even have to answer it you got the thanks uh yeah you can't see the game as well absolutely and look i hadn't worked in the press box since 2001 uh before last year because i'd always been in the press box since 2001 before last year because I'd always been in the broadcast booth. And the broadcast booth remains behind home plate because they understand you can't call a game from deep left field. Even the other – ooh, your Brett Laurie shirt just brushed up against the microphone. But even the, there are other ballparks,

Angel Stadium, and whatever the heck they're calling the south side of Chicago, I think it's Guaranteed Rate Field. They have their press boxes in the outfield as well, but their broadcast booths are still behind home plate because they understand that in order to call a game, in order to see everything, you need that vantage point.

So, yeah, there are a great many challenges to the PressBox being in deep left field, one of which is you can't really see the left field corner from where I sit. But you also can't. The vantage point is so much worse for covering a baseball game. Yes. There's no getting around it. You got a diamond.

You got nine men. We need a dome. Are we at the seventh inning stretch of the show already? Mal Furious. His question will be the introduction to the next chapter of this episode. Mike Wilner, is this the year for the Toronto Blue Jays? I mean, there's as good a chance that this is the year as there has been for any of the last 28. You're really watching this weather, huh?

Only because then I have to cover something with the electric stuff over here. Yeah, that's true. And I'm easily distracted by things like that. It's like, squirrel? Look, here's the thing. And I know this is not the answer that a lot of people want to hear, but winning the World Series does not prove that you're the best team in baseball. Winning the World Series shows that you had the best October of any team. I believe that what really shows who you are is what you do over 162.

Because that's the way baseball is meant to be played, right? The season shows your depth. The playoffs do not. You need a good bullpen during the regular season to succeed. You don't in the playoffs. You only need like three guys. You only need three starters in the playoffs. You don't need a deep bench. All that stuff with all those

off days. But you can be the best team in baseball and you lose in the ALCS and it's a you know, that sucks. The World Series is what we care about. Yeah, I i know and it's too bad and the the problem is that you can't say um yes the blue jays are are the best team in baseball

and therefore they're going to win the world series doesn't work that way look at last year's world series champion right the atlanta braves went oh and six against the jays during the regular season right they had 88 wins fewer than the Blue Jays and the Mariners, neither of whom made the playoffs. They only had to face one of the juggernauts in the National League because of the ridiculous playoff system. They had a 107-win team playing a 106-win team in the first round. Right.

So, you know, the deck isn't exactly stacked towards having the best team win and in a short series literally anything can happen in baseball in a best of five never mind you know a best of three so for me what i'm looking for for the blue jays this year is to make the playoffs and avoid the wild card round. If you've done that, then you've shown that you are one of the best teams. If you then go on to win the World Series, well, even better. And a hearty muzzle-tove to you. Arden Zwelling, a former colleague of mine, put it well when he said,

you've got to look at the playoffs as a separate tournament a tournament that is separate from the season and you win the tournament great you won the tournament doesn't doesn't prove anything i know i know we're used to like oh the team that wins the stanley cup final that win 16 games battle through this and battle through that look luck plays a major factor and and i know people don't want to hear this because they want to write their sonnets and talk about their heroes as he's exceptional performers in the biggest spots but luck plays a massive massive role in sports success and it's even massivier in a short series love that word okay so here's how we're going to structure this now and i thought about this this is not for the the diehard who knows everything,

the depth chart, knows everything about Buffalo and everything going down. This is sort of for your casual Jays fan who needs a primer on what they can look forward to in 2022. Maybe they're excited about opening day Friday and they want to get back into it, but they need a little bit of like some intel on the current squad. So we're going to go by

position. Are you ready, Mike Wilner? Sure. I almost I want to say backcatcher. Just to piss you off. Backcatcher. Regional dialect. Okay, we're from different parts of the city. But catcher. Tell us about

the Blue Jays. How strong are we in the catcher position? This could go either way. They could be very strong. They could not. Look, I'm a big Danny Jansen fan. And Danny Jansen had a phenomenal September. After he returned from the injured list for a second time, he pulled a hamstring twice.

He had an OPS of like 1250 in September, finally looking like the hitter we always thought he could be. But he had never hit before in the major leagues since his rookie season where he was only up in August and September. So he had a terrible 19 at the plate. He had a terrible 2020 at the plate. He had a terrible first two-thirds of 2021 at the plate. But he's made himself into a really good defender.

He's the best in the game at blocking balls in the dirt, which the Blue Jays are going to need with guys like Gosman and Kikuchi in the rotation of a Noah. So if he hits, look out. If not, he's still doing a fine job and won't kill him in the eight spot. Alejandro Kirk is like a hitting prodigy. He's 23 years old. Great bat-to-ball guy.

He doesn't strike out much. And a lot of fun to watch. Still got a lot of work to do behind the plate on his catching and may DH more than he catches. But I really like his offensive potential. And Zach Collins, the guy they got for Reese McGuire, is another offense first catcher who hasn't really hit yet in the major leagues. So he's the left-handed compliment

so do they do the jays carry three catchers is that uh i think so because you want to give kirk a lot of dh time or significant not insignificant dh time i think they're going to carry three catchers but no guarantee anymore now that they have collins and not reese mcguire who was out of options but of course the the whole catching thing is about Gabriel Moreno, who is on his way up, who is their top prospect. People are talking about him in incredibly high regard. He's a top 10 prospect in all the pundits across Major League Baseball and might have even made it to the majors last year

if he hadn't broken his thumb in August. One of the questions I got, Eric wanted to know if you think that he gets called up this year. This year, yeah. I don't know when, but yes, I do think we'll see him this year. Okay, exciting. Off to a great start. And here we are, first base.

Can't do any better, can you? Look, you got the best hitter in the game. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. is it. Would have been the MVP at 22, if not for the unicorn that is Shohei Otani, right? That's true. That is true. Otani was a top five hitter and a top 10 pitcher.

He can't beat that. But otherwise, Guerrero might have been the unanimous, most valuable player. To be able to contend for a triple crown at 22 years old, to walk almost as much as you strike out, hit 48 home runs, which is more than his father ever hit in any one season in his career. Wow. Look, yeah.

How do you top it? You break Jose Bautista's record and you win an MVP? That's pretty much the only way he can top what he did last year. Once in a while, we have somebody who shows up with great hype and actually matches the hype. I think it's actually happening with the Leafs as well. It's happening with Austin Matthews in that he's tied with Rick Vibe right now.

He's got a bunch of games left. But Vladdy Guerrero is a great example. That hype was so intense. It would have been... The fact that he's actually matching that pre-career hype is unbelievable.

What is he, 23 now? What is he? Yeah, he just turned 23 a couple of weeks ago. That's crazy. And look, and I think that's why people were down on him after 2020 when he was 21 years old. I know. And still an above average major league hitter. I know.

He had an OPS plus over 100. Listen, I know. And people were talking about how disappointing he was. I co-host a show of a guy who had an opinion like that and it's bananas. Absolutely, 21 years old. It really is bananas. But I mean, that's, you know,

when you talk about living up to the hype, people want them to live up to the hype immediately. It happened with Austin Matthews too. Right, what, he got four goals in his first game? Correct. And people expected him to score 300, and they were disappointed when he didn't. It can take a while.

And something that people need to remember, too, is that baseball is really, really, really, really hard. Really hard. Right. Right? You get out 60% of the time. You're the best player who ever lived. That's right.

That's right. Okay, so when Vladdy's at DH or taking a day off or whatever, who's at first? Bird? No, Bird didn't make the team he got released last week okay see this is what you're here for yeah okay no greg bird uh i think the the um it's likely to be lourdes guriel or uh cambigio those are probably your next two first basemen uh quick because you mentioned otani like if you went back i don't know let's go back to the

let's talk sports days and somebody called in and described this player would you hang up the phone and say get like get out of the sign like this whole idea that he he bats like he bats and he pitches seems like so bizarre to a guy who's been watching baseball his whole life like this is unicorn you called him like absolutely like could. Could you have ever predicted that this unicorn would one day be, would surface? I don't think I would have. No. But I mean, look, as athletes get better and better and better and nutrition gets better and training gets better and all that stuff. I know.

It was probably only a matter of time before they allowed a guy who was a really good pitcher to keep hitting and i think that's the thing they've always made you choose one or the other right and shohei otani coming over from japan had the advantage of being able to write his own ticket that way right he was a free agent from the beginning as opposed to being drafted into an organization that then makes you choose. Well, like Dave Steeb, right? Dave Steeb was an outfielder. Because he was an outfielder.

So I always think maybe Dave could have been one of these guys if they were even in the imagination of a coach at the time or whatever. I think the mentality of baseball has always been having a great pitcher is way too valuable to allow him to get hurt playing the field or even let him try um so i really do think it's the fact that otani could dictate his own terms that allowed this to happen wow second base second base i think is going to be a combination of cavin biggio and santiago espinal i don't think it's going to be a strict platoon

because I think Biggio is going to spend some time at first. He's going to spend some time in the outfield. Espinol will get to play short and third on the days that Bichette and Chapman have off, which probably won't be very many. But I think we'll see Kevin Biggio get the lion's share of the at-bats at second base, and Espinol will be there as well.

And look, Biggio had a lion's share of the at-bats at second base, and Espinol will be there as well. And look, Biggio had a lost season last year. He was healthy for maybe six weeks out of the whole season. He had finger injury, hand injury, neck injury, back injury, shoulder thing, and he's

finally healthy. And for some strange reason, a lot of Blue Jays fans have picked Kevinendish to be the guy that they can't stand uh maybe it's because he came up with bichette and guerrero together well they all have dads who are great ball players and he's the odd man out in that trifecta he's just not as good as they are but he never was and his flow isn't as good as bo's so you know it was true too uh but he was never going to be as good as they are let's be quick before I mention Flo have you seen the photo

of Scotty Mac so Scotty Mac got a new gig I've seen the Scotty Mac yeah how recently have you seen him the hair is tremendous yeah

because I have not seen him in a long time yeah yeah it's unbelievable yeah oh no it's great and I'm so I'm glad he didn't cut it and I'm thrilled

that he got this new gig so good for him yeah he's back in the Bell Media on the RB he's on yeah 10 do an afternoon drive you're wondering what the hell we're talking about okay so you mentioned flow we mentioned uh what can you tell me that's still after isn't it like two to five is that still afternoon drive is it two you're talking the wrong guy uh i would i don't even know if i could find 10 10 on the dial but uh 10 10 yeah that's that's the joke hey look okay i don't know what time that show is on

But it's called Afternoon Drive It's literally called The Rush But it starts at 2 Oh okay No one's got a commute anymore So maybe it's all moot now Who knows what's going on there But back to the second base here

Biggio when he was healthy Was an above averageaverage hitter. People say you can't hit a fastball. Just stop it. Just stop, all right? But he was an above-average big league hitter. He's got an unbelievable eye. So even if he hits 240,

he's going to have an on-base of 350 or better, which is tremendous. And he's a really, really good defensive second baseman. And he's often, or sometimes, the way they're talking about it often, but I don't believe that, is going to be the only left-handed bat in the lineup. So he's going to play a lot, and I think he's going to do quite well. He's not going to put up Guerrero numbers. He's not going to put up Bichette numbers.

Again, he may not hit 250250, but he will still be a very helpful offensive piece near the bottom of the order. And Santiago Espinel, I think in limited playing time, will do a very good job again like he did last year. What can you tell me about Otto Lopez? He'll be in Buffalo waiting.

But he is... He... He's like a very Alejandro Kirke, Rymel Tapie sort of hitter. He's a slasher, doesn't walk much, doesn't strike out much, will hit for a very high average. Hopefully that translates into the major leagues because he'd be somebody who would be a lot of fun to watch.

Now, shout out to a great rap act that i enjoyed in the early 90s third base do you remember third base no gas face i thought you were gonna say maestro fresh west no i should shout out maestro he's a great guy but no third base where i think they were from brooklyn i want to say and there were three guys who uh would rap and yeah, gas face, and I had a bunch of their stuff. Anyway, shout-out to third base. If anyone from third base is listening, talk to me about third base with the Toronto Blue Jays in 2022. I mean, they've got the best third baseman in baseball.

This is something that should excite everyone who likes watching defense, everyone who likes watching defense. And I think it's going to be by April 20th, people will already be bored of seeing the unbelievable stuff that Matt Chapman can do at third base. He is elite. He may be the best defensive player in baseball.

Not the best defensive third baseman. He might be the best defensive player in baseball. So hyped up. This is exciting. He makes, we saw like four plays in spring training that were insanely difficult that he made look so incredibly easy that it was silly. Whether he hits or not, he helps. And he gave 36 home runs a couple of years ago in 2019, I believe. He gets on base.

He did strike out 200 times last year, but he was dealing with a hip injury and returning from that. And he had to be one of the focal points in the Oakland offense, and he is absolutely not one of the focal points in the Blue Jays offense. So, yeah, just let him play third. Let Bo Bichette never have to worry about going to his backhand all season. Right. And just love all the singles and doubles he takes away.

And, yeah, he's just got to stay healthy. He'll be out there, I guess, almost every day. Yep. Amazing. Okay, shortstop. I mean, I just wrote this. It's going to be in the season preview section that's coming out

in the Star on Friday and I wish I could remember it exactly but Bo Bichette over his first 162 Major League games is the only player in Major League history to hit at least 300 with at least 40 doubles

at least 20 homers at least 100 runs scored at least 100 runs batted in and at least 300 with at least 40 doubles, at least 20 homers, at least 100 runs scored, at least 100 runs batted in, and at least 200 hits. That's amazing. Right? That's amazing. Why don't we not talk about this more? Too many guys to talk about on this team, I guess.

But that's unbelievable. So he might play every game this year. He's going to try. I mean, I think he came close last year. And look, he doesn't have to go to his right anymore. And how huge is that? So, you know, Bo is a, I wish he didn't get himself into 0-2 counts so often

because I know that Buck and Tabby love to say what a great hitter he is when he gets into 0-2 and it's right where he wants to be when he's 0-2. And it's just not true. He is a terrible hitter at 0-2, but everybody is. He might be relatively good, but that still means he hits 130. So, no, Bo does not want to be 0-2. He just doesn't mind, which is a great mindset to have.

But I'm afraid if he stopped doing that, it might take away from the rest of what he does so well as a hitter. And he does so many things so well as a hitter. So it really is incredible the things he's managed to do so far. It's quite the infield. Talk to me about the outfield. All right, where should we start? Let's start with George.

George Springer. No, George Bell. George Bell is the first MVP for the Blue Jays. They ruled five to amount of Philly in 1981. Yeah, we did well. But here, let's listen to this really quickly. Hi, I'm George Bell. You listen to Toronto Mike.

Beautiful. Glad that Hebsey was able to get that for you. George Springer got hurt a lot last year well twice but they were pretty severe injuries and he lost more than half the season but when he was in the lineup the blue jays were 48 and 30 and that's not insignificant right because what it also means is when he wasn't in the lineup the blue jays were quick math says barely a 500 team 162 games, 48 and 30 they won 91 so they were 43 and 41

when he didn't play and 48 and 30 when he did. Now he did, a lot of the time he missed was May, June when the bullpen was on fire so that probably had more to do with the disparity in record than anything else but having him at the top of the order changes the makeup of the team. He played 78 games.

He hit 22 home runs. He had an OPS over 900. He played a really, really good center field. There's a reason they gave him $150 million, right? And it's not just because he was on that Dirty Dirty Cheaters team in Houston. And the fact that he's had better numbers since says something too. So he'll always be one of those 2017 Astros, but he's also a very, very helpful player even without the help.

Wow. Yeah, I mean, a healthy springer would be like what an what an incredible upgrade that alone would be on this 2022 blue jays team so i'll cross my fingers okay t oscar hernandez to oscar hernandez has won two straight silver sluggers um he he's learned to hit for average his His last two years, he hit like 297 after he was a 230 hitter coming into 2020. He's improved his defense to the point where he doesn't hurt you. And his arm is terrific. And people spend so much time talking about Gurriel's arm that they don't really recognize how good Tay Oscars is.

He fits very well in the middle of this lineup. He belongs in that group and i'm not sure a lot of people realize he led the blue jays in rbi say what you will about runs batted in last season but he missed a month with covet and he still led the team with 116 runs batted in so that's that's not you'd win a lot of bar bets i I bet, with that one. Who led the Jays in RBIs last season? Wow. There you go. Share the proceeds with me and Mike.

Yeah. And if you have a problem, dial 1-800-OK. So Springer, Hernandez. OK, you mentioned Gurriel. Talk to me about Lourdes Gurriel Jr. Would love if he could just figure out how to be consistent. This is a guy who is as streaky as anybody on this team, if not more so.

It's almost Grichukian that he'll spend a month hitting 180 and then a month hitting 360. But he carries this team when he gets hot. He had the biggest home run the Blue Jays had last season, that grand slam in the comeback game against Oakland that Friday night at the beginning of September. So if he could figure it out, he could really, really be a force.

As it is, he's quite good, but there's a lot of room to grow there. But again, he doesn't have to be a focal point in this offense. He can be one of eight guys who hit 25 homers. Now, Gritchak, you just mentioned him. He went to the Rockies for Tapia.

Am I saying it right? I want to say Tapia. Tapia sounds better. But I've heard people say Tapia. Yeah, Tapia sounds better now that you say it like that. So he'll be our fourth outfielder? That's what they're saying now. I really see that he's going to wind up getting a lot of reps in left field

and that Gurriel and Hernandez are going to spend a lot of time at DH. I think what Tapia does for them is something that they don't have. First of all, he's a left-handed hitter, Something that they don't have. First of all, he's a left-handed hitter. But he's also that high-contact slasher, sort of 300-hitter, sprays the ball around. The majority of the hits he's had in his major league career have been to center field and the opposite field.

It's a weapon that the Blue Jays don't have. I see him as sort of the perfect nine-hitter for them. Get on and set the table for Springer and Vlade and Bichette and Teoscar. And I think eventually they learn that having him in the lineup more often than not is going to be a help. So I see him getting a lot of playing time, even though it doesn't look like that's the plan at the moment. And how is the depth beyond those uh those top four guys in the outfield in the outfield yeah um well i mean i guess cam biggio is probably your fifth outfielder and he's not a bad outfielder he played some

center field for them last year um or the year before uh But you got four good ones. So your fourth outfielder is better than a lot of teams' third outfielders. So I think that's where the depth is deep. Let's go to the mound here. Talk to me about our starting pitchers. And you can maybe even go in order if you can, if you want to one through five or whatever. I'll promote the Toronto Star again,

in this section, the preview section that's coming out on Friday, on opening day, I wrote a whole article about the starting rotation and how they play off each other. Oh, you're going to love it. It's a thousand words of beauty about these five guys. I'm all in, buddy. I'm a big star guy. Look, here's the thing. Alec Manoa said to me, he said,

he believes that all five of them can win 20 games. Wow. So they're not going to. But he clarified it later to say, if the team wins on the day I pitch, I count that as a win. And that's possible, that there could be 20 each, which is a 100-win team, which is pretty cool.

But look, this might be the best five. It's the best five-man rotation they've ever had. Wow. One through five, it's the best they've ever had. Now, in the glory days. Take that, Todd Stottlemyre. In the glory days, they were running a four-man, right, with the Steeb and Key and Clancy and Louis Leal.

Oh, back those days, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm thinking of like, yeah, Jack Morris and Jimmy Key and was it Juan Guzman out there? Yeah. And then Todd Stottlemyre. How about Al Leiter? Was he in there? Yeah, Al Leiter was sort of in there.

It's a pretty good rotation, too. Look, you've got... And Dave Stewart in 93. You've got four all-stars, right? Four recent all-stars in this rotation. Kevin Gosman and Yusei Kikuchi were all-stars last year. Jose Barrios and... Ryu?

Hyunjin Ryu. I was blanking on Ryu. Were all-stars a couple of years ago. And then Manoa, who would have been the rookie of the year last year if they'd called them up a little bit earlier. So Kikuchi had an awful second half, and Ryu had a terrible September. But really, that's it.

That's the only sort of flaw you can find. So yeah, they're crazy good. I saw Manoa watching Kevinosman's first live batting practice in dunedin yeah and gosman threw a splitter and manoa's like jaw dropped and he turned to pete walker and was like what it was out what what the hell was that and uh manoa told me he thinks his change-up got better just by watching Gosman splitter. Okay, this is good to hear. Because Scott M. sent in a question.

Why only one start for Gosman in spring training? And is he ready? Oh, none of that matters. No, in spring training, first of all, this was a short spring and it was a condensed schedule. So they played the Yankees a lot because the Yankees are close by. And every time you thought Kevin Gosman was supposed to start a spring training game, he was pitching a game on the minor league complex.

Oh, on the minor league, yeah, a simulated game. A minor league game or a simulated game, one or the other. So, yeah, they're all fine. They're all healthy. They all got plenty of work in. They were just hiding them from the Yankees. Or he was supposed to pitch the day i left but the game got rained out so the next day was reuse day so ryu pitched

and gosman pitched in a minor league game all that stuff none of that matters everybody's fine um so yeah i i wouldn't worry about that i don't love this whole new spring training thing about oh we're not going to pitch you against a team in your division because they'll see you like they haven't already a thousand times. Right. You know, Gosman pitched in the AL East for years. They put on the VR glasses. Right, exactly.

And they watch the video. Right. So I think that's stupid, but whatever. Right. But yeah, so you're not going to, that's why you won't see them in those spring training games. Okay. And so far this has been fantastic,

but I'm very interested in what you have to say about our relievers because I don't know what to feel about these relievers, but I'm going to listen to the expert Mike Wilner. What say you? Why don't you know what to feel about them? I don't know. I find this always the hardest

on a ball team to predict how the relievers will do. I think you are a thousand percent correct on that. Is that possible, Mike? Over a hundred? Yes, it is possible. When you're that right, Mike, when you're that right. Look, relief

pitchers' success is wildly volatile. And it's because they pitch so few innings every year that one or two bad outings can ruin your season. You know, I think if you take out four appearances by Tim Mazza at the end of May last year, he had an ERA under one. But he was so bad in those few appearances that it wrecked.

Well, it didn't wreck. He still had pretty good numbers, but he didn't have amazing numbers. Here's how the Blue Jays' bullpen looks. Jordan Romano, and I'll throw this out for not the casual fan. Right. Jordan Romano led the major leagues in win probability added last year.

Now, what is win probability added? You may ask. you may ask? I may ask that too. But what it measures is your performance at the points in the game that carry the most weight towards a win or a loss.

So you would say, well, okay, so then a closer pitches in the highest leverage situation, so he'll, you know, but you have to be successful, right? Because if you blow the games, then you lose a lot of that WPA. But Jordan Romano and Juan Soto tied for the Major League lead in win probability. So there was nobody better in bigger spots in ballgames.

Romano blew one save all year. So last year he was elite. all year um so last year he was elite yimmy garcia who's the new guy comes over as a former closer with the marlins he pitched with the dodgers uh he's he he understands how to pitch in big spots and and how to do the job tim maza i think really had an amazing year last year and asserted himself as like a legit big league setup, man, Adam Simber and Trevor Richards came and saved the bullpen last year. And in,

when they got there at the end of June, in the beginning of July, a little late, right. Had the moves been made a couple of weeks earlier than the blue Jays probably make the playoffs. And hopefully the front office learned its lesson that way. But they're all back.

That's like five legit back-of-the-bullpen, high-leverage arms who are back. Julian Merriweather's healthy, right, for now, but Julian Merriweather has a lot to prove about staying healthy, but if he ever can. But he's the first one. Usually when you talk about the Blue Jays bullpen, the second name comes with an if.

This time it's the sixth that comes with an if. David Phelps is back, and David Phelps was unbelievable for them in April, and then he broke. And if you listen to this current episode of Deep Left Field, you hear a really in-depth talk with him. He had a lat muscle injury, and the lat is the one that goes, I think, from the bottom of your shoulder blades to all the way down your back. And it tore, and

it retracted four inches after it tore off the bone in his back which sounds painful painful and super gross right so that's why he missed the sea the rest of the season from the beginning of may on but he was really really good for them and he was really really good for them in 2019 too so and then there's ross stripling who was you know for a month and a half was the blue jays best starting pitcher last year and he's now in the bullpen um waiting you know, for a month and a half, was the Blue Jays' best starting pitcher last year, and he's now in the bullpen, waiting, you know, for those long relief opportunities,

which I'm sure there'll be plenty of early in the season, and waiting to step into the rotation when the opportunity presents itself. So, I mean, in three weeks, four of them could be hurt, right? Because that's the way pitching works. But right now, this is a very, very good bullpen. And we haven't been able to say that about the Blue Jays

for a long time. Talking all this Blue Jays baseball with you, Mike, has warmed me up, even though... But how are you holding up? We're in the homestretch here. We just covered the whole roster there. But I do have a few questions from FOTMs who wanted me to ask you some questions.

Look, I'm, you are always so kind with your concern about the amount of time you're taking from me. I'm waiting to do a three-hour Toronto night. Are you? Okay, well that might be the summer Jay's Talk episode when you get back here in a warmer day. I'm wearing my Olympic

rain jacket. Oh, from 2010. From 2010. This is, I wore this to go cover like all the sliding events with a layer or two underneath and I'm fine. This is way warmer than it looks. Well, you know what? See, I have the attire I would wear for like a bike ride right now, but then I would- And you're moving in a bike.

Right, I know. And then, so I never even, I don't even really have a good sense of how to dress for this outside, but I'm feeling okay. If you want to go get a parka. No, no, no, no, I'm good, I'm good. then, so I never even, I don't even really have a good sense of how to dress for this outside, but I'm feeling okay. If you want to go get a parka. No, no, no, no, I'm good, I'm good. Let's burn through some questions, but one big question

after we ran through that whole roster is, and I know you don't like to do these predictions, or maybe you'll do one for me, Toronto Mike, your friendly neighborhood, Toronto Mike. How many wins do you think this team could win in 2022? Somewhere between 88 and 105. That's a big range. Okay, so...

Look, it's a very, very good... I expect that they will win the American League East, barring the unforeseen major injury or several major injuries. I think it's so deep, it would take more than one. A few. Or really significant ones.

I expect that they will win the division. What that means as far as the number of wins, I don't know. I mean, they have to play the Yankees, Rays, and Red Sox for a third of their schedule, which makes it really, really hard to pile up wins, right? So I don't know how many games they'll win. And I don't know what the over-under is right now, but I expect them to be very, very good.

And I think they should win the division. Well, what would you say if I told you Marty York is predicting this team will win 71 games? I would be par for the course. I was curious how you'd handle that one. Okay. Moose Grumpy. It's kind of,

we've kind of covered all this, but maybe there's something out of here you can, you didn't speak to, but the whole thing is, maybe I should have read it earlier, but it's who in training camp looked locked in? Who could have a year? Maybe it's Vlad or Bo.

But could it be unexpected? Espinal looks ready. Does he have a player to watch? I guess that's you. Do you have a player to watch? Is there a player we should watch maybe beyond the obvious? Or you can take what you want out of that. That's a great question. But there's a lot of ground cover there.

It's funny. As much as everybody, or As much as a large portion of Blue Jays fans have this weird, irrational hate for Kevin Biggio, it's the opposite for Santiago Espinal. There's a strange, irrational love for Espinal, and he's a fine player. He really is. But he's not what you think he is, I don't think. I think he's a very helpful, complimentary piece to this team.

And that's about it. I think, look, I saw somebody tweet today that he ran down a list and said the Blue Jays could have 15 All-Stars. It's not going to happen, but, you know, you look at that. That'd be something else. Wow. But Gosman, Barrios, Manoa, Ryu is top three in Cy Young voting two of the last three years. going to happen but but you know you that'd be something else but gosman barrios manoa ryu is top three in cy young voting two of the last three years uh romano and and um garcia and

mesa and then you get to chapman and bow and vlad and and springer danny jayce get hit 30 homers and springer and tay oscar and Teoscar, and Gurriel. Watch them all. What you want to watch is see if they can set a record for home runs in a season, see if they win every game 8-1. I don't know if there's anybody who's going to jump out. They certainly all have the potential to have incredible seasons.

Canada Kev has a bunch of interesting observations. First one is he wants to know, will there be a, and I don't know, I know it's a joke, but will there be a bongo night promotion to celebrate Coach Charlie? I would love to, manager, by the way. It's not hockey, manager. I just read the questions. I know, you didn't say that.

Coach Charlie. I would love a Charlie Montoyo bobblehead with the bongos. I think that would be kind of cool. He says, will I be the only one booing when Josh Donaldson shows up in pinstripes? Now, before you, can I just speak to this? Sure, please. I almost could have thrown on my 93 Doug Gilmore when he was the alternate captain, when Wendell Clark was captain.

We talked about that a lot on Let's Talk Sports. Right. I loved, you know, I still love Doug. I got that jersey. It's like I don't wear a lot of Leafs jerseys. I have a Bill Barocco and a Doug Gilmore, to be honest. And, you know, I saw him wear the colors of the Montreal Canadiens. Like, I've seen this.

And, you know, it's sort of, you get over it very quickly. I don't know about this whole, like, Josh, like, I can't see him in pinstripes. I don't, you know, like, Josh can play where he wants, and I'm happy to see the guy wherever he is. And the thing, too, is, you know, I remember seeing when Donaldson got traded to the Yankees, a lot of Blue Jays fans say, oh, well, that's it.

I can't, you know, how could he do this? He had no choice. He had no say in the matter at all. You know, the twins decided to trade him to New York. He signed a deal with Minnesota. So it's not Josh Donaldson's fault that he's a Yankee. Yeah, like, you know, he has the right to work where he wants to work. He can't be thinking about, like, great rivalries in sports.

At all. And I'm not even sure the Yankees see the Blue Jays as a rival. Right, it's a one-way street. Yeah, it's a one-way street. But, yeah, why would you boo Josh? Why would you boo Josh Donaldson? No, I don't know, but Canada Kev is going to be booing. It's a home run against the Jays.

Fine, boo that. He might be watching live right now. Anything you want to say to Canada Kev? Tell him, don't boo Josh, right? Like, this is not necessary. There's no reason to boo Josh Donaldson, none whatsoever. And if you want to not like him, again, shameless promotion, go back and listen to, I think the September,

second week of September episode of Deep Left Field. I had an incredible, incredible interview with Josh Donaldson. Awesome. He said some, oh, it was beautiful. I got such great memories of Josh. You know, Josh, speaking of Josh, no rain has shown up. We're almost done here.

I have a song loaded up for when the rain comes and I don't think, I might have to play it at the end just anyways, but you know, Josh was the bringer of rain. My least favorite 80s jam,

by the way, Here Comes the Rain Again by U.S. Navy. Really? I think that's their second biggest hit. Yeah, it might be. It is, I think that's their second biggest hit. Yeah, it might be. It is, I think. I have a rational hate for that song.

Well, I might be playing it on the next episode of Toast, actually, now that I've heard that. Oh, I'm sorry. I dig that jam. I know it's probably the second biggest Eurythmic song if I look back at that catalog. But yeah, it's funny. This is like the anniversary.

Maybe it's the 30th anniversary of the release of diva which was the annie lennox solo debut album i think that's selling and i think no joke because you're the reason kick out the jams was invented because i saw your tweet about pro jams 10 and today as we speak and i know this because fotm scott turner me, on this day, 30 years ago, Evenflow was released. Really? On this day, 30 years ago. How about that?

Evenflow. Great song. Absolutely. By the way, the best Eurythmics jam? Tell me. Right by your side. See, I don't know the deep cuts of Eurythmics. I only know the songs that CFTR played. I think it was a hit.

It was a CFTR hit. Can you sing a bit of it for me? No. Okay. I'll take it down. Okay. One last- It's got whistles in it.

Okay. You can't go wrong with whistles. Canada Kev's last note is that he says, where the F? He says, fuck though. But this is not the Toronto Star podcast, so I can say it. Where the fuck is BJ Birdie?

Now, I just want to point out, I've done some major investigation over the years because this is in my wheelhouse. BJ Birdie was owned by a gentleman, I think it was Kevin Shanahan, birdie now i just want to point out i've done some major investigation over the years because this is in my wheelhouse bj birdie was owned by a gentleman i think it was kevin shanahan but it was a shanahan who owned the intellectual property that was bj birdie so this was a business decision by the blue jays to not use something they didn't own they own these uh two they brought in were ace and diamond yeah but diamonds long Diamond's long gone. Diamond's long gone, right. So this is just

simply so the team could own the intellectual property that is their mascot. There's Ace and Junior, I think, on the Junior Jays' day. I knew the woman who was inside the Diamond costume. Her name is Amanda Barker. What's the story behind the story of the loss of Diamond?

I don't know. That story I don't have. I need to get Amanda Barker's input's the story behind the story of the loss of Diamond? I don't know. That story I don't have. I need to get Amanda Barker's input on what happened to, that's the real question. What happened to Diamond? We know what happened to BJ Birdie. I used to cut out, the Toronto Star had these cartoons. Yep.

I used to cut them out and put them in my, some of the ones I liked, I'd cut out and put them in my scrapbook, okay? Like the original blog. Okay, so we're going to burn through these because I've decided we're going to beat the rain here. Eric, quick question. He says,

who will be starting second baseman by the end of the season? But you kind of covered this. I still think Kevin Biggio. I know that people don't like him and don't think that he's going to be successful, but

I think he holds that job. Weather app now says chance of light rain, but not for like 45 minutes. Oh, lots of time here. Let me kick out some jams here. Let's get comfy. We'll do your three-hour episode today. So this is the big question, I think,

and this is what I think, I'm curious to have your insight into this. I love the day games, the night games too. I love the clinchers. But they're tight at two. But they're tight at two. I love the coaches, the entire crew. I love the Blue Jays.

I love the Diamonds. Too good to be you. I really thought this was, like, the tempo of this was a lot faster. In my memory. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, it does. Yeah.

No, this is it. That's one of my favorite lines right there. I'll buy a hot dog because I love to eat and watch the Blue Jays. Great lyrics in this jam. Okay, here it is. Eric and,

let me see, who do I give credit for this? But here. Apparently somebody's been listening. I don't have the name. I feel embarrassed. I don't have this name. But someone was listening

to Steven Brunt. Love Steven Brunt. F-O-T-M, Steven Brunt. The best. Go listen to his kick out of the jams. It's pretty damn great. Okay.

He makes it sound like the team isn't sure that the Vladdy and Bo extensions will happen. So much money and they don't know if they will want to sign here. Brunt makes it sound like that is why the team is pushing so hard to win right now. I hope that isn't the case, but found it interesting. And he suggested it more than once on his show. And this ties in nicely with Eric's question,

which is quite simply, when might the Vlad and Bo extensions happen? It could happen tomorrow. But I'm not suggesting that it will. But look, it's an interesting conspiracy theory. It feels like it's very Toronto to suggest that they don't want to stay. And the Blue Jays are trying to win before they run out of town because they can't wait to get out of here.

But it's very Toronto because it's happened so many times. Has it though? I'm thinking of Tracy McGrady. Am I going back too far? No, that happened. That was three years and he was out actually. Yeah, but that's the NBA, right? With the Blue Jays, like Guerrero and Bichette made their debuts in 2019,

but 2020 was their first full season. So the Jays still have four years till they can leave on their own. This year and three seasons after before Guerrero and Bichette are free agents. So the idea that they're rushing to win in 2022 because they can't wait to get out of here just doesn't hold up to any sort of intellectual scrutiny at all.

Okay, so tell the common people exactly what are we talking about here? Like Vlad and Bo's contracts, as you said, four years? Like what did you say? Yeah, they have four more seasons of control, the Blue Jays, over the way it works is you're a free agent after six full seasons, after you reach six seasons of service time, and Vladdy and Bo will reach three this year.

So the Blue Jays still have them for three, four, five, and six. They're not going anywhere. I've always thought, honestly, that neither of them need money. Right? They both grew up with obscenely wealthy fathers who played Major League Baseball. That is true. Vladdy got a huge bonus to sign.

And they're not, I don't think they're in it for, or I don't think they're as motivated to cash in before they hit free agency as a lot of other younger players who didn't come from money would be. I don't think either of them is in any rush to sign a long term deal and I think if the Blue Jays put Fernando Tatis money in front of them then absolutely

they'll sign but I'm not sure the Jays are in any big rush because they can't go anywhere for a while anyway by the way we talked about Canada Kev is going to be booing Josh Donaldson when he suits up for the Yankees and visits the Dome. He is listening live and he's chimed in to say,

so I don't know if he's walking this back a little, maybe not, but he says, I love Josh, I just hate the Yankees. That's okay. And I was going to say, they're not mutually exclusive. Right. I hate the Yankees, but I do love Josh Donaldson, so we're all in the same gang. So I would not boo. I would do the opposite, though. I would find myself cheering love Josh Donaldson. So we're all in the same gang. So I would not boo. I would do the opposite though.

I would find myself cheering for Josh Donaldson because I would remember the 2015-2016 seasons and how much joy that brought me. And how much he loved it here. MVP. I mean, how many MVPs have we had? Two? Two is correct.

Should I play the clip again? Although as we talked about on your podcast, he went something like four for 44 or something down the stretch in 87. Yeah. Something like that. It wasn't that bad. I think it was 3 for 27 or something like that, George Bell. See how time I got it.

And he still won the MVP award. Okay. So, my friend, I'm going to play the jam. I was going to play when it started raining because it looks like we're actually going to miss the rain here. So, I had it all loaded up. I had a couple of jams. So going to play the jam. I was going to play when it started raining because it looks like we're actually going to miss the rain here. So I had it all loaded up. I had a couple of jams. So this is the jam I was going to play when the skies opened up

because I anticipated rain falling on us during this episode. Yeah, I put that in your head. Yes, you did. You did. Listen to the rhythm of the falling rain Telling me just what a fool I've been I wish that it would go and let me cry in vain And let me be alone again

The only girl I care about Has gone away Looking for a brand new start But little does she know That when she left that day Do you know the artist? I don't. See, when I think of this in my head,

and I knew it from the golden oldies cassettes I used to collect that we got at the gas station when I was really, really, really young. I used to love the Golden Oldies stuff. Like in my mind, it would be like, oh, is that Buddy Holly? Like that's what I'm thinking in my mind. No, it's not. Okay, so it's the Cascades.

And I totally... Is it because rain falls in cascading fashion perhaps? So I never would have guessed that. Yeah, me neither. But I did load up one more jam for you here. This is unrelated to the weather here. I thought we would absolutely hear the rhythm of the rain on the tarp as we went. We've had backyard episodes where the rain's just come.

I'm thinking of Cameron Carpenter. It was soaked. I mean, this has been times, man. We'm thinking of Cameron Carpenter. It was soaked. I mean, this has been times, man. We've had a rough pandemic back here. But this jam, because this is the, I believe it's the first song you kicked out when you came by to kick out the jam. This was my theme song on CIUT

in the Sports Extra days back in, at the University of Toronto. Great song. back at the University of Toronto. Great song. And it remains my plan to have Geddy Lee on a future episode of Deep Left Field, hopefully this month. That's amazing.

So you've had contact with... Oh yeah, we go back and forth, for sure. Oh, that's very exciting I had a I kicked out the jams of a woman from a sponsor company

and we played Working Man and she said no joke so we're playing Working Man

now I I should point out I chose the jams she didn't choose the jams but she did listen to the jams and she said she likes how

it's about Working Man but it's you know a woman who's singing. So she thought Geddy Lee was a woman. So no shame in that game, as I said to her, but no,

he's not. And I'll just quickly use this opportunity to say that I recently did a very special episode, 1021, one Oh two one. It is basically the definitive history of CFN Y. And this song, the title of the song, Spirit of Radio, inspired by David Marston's Spirit of Radio, CFNY.

And David Marston's on that episode. And we played the different version of the song because CFNY didn't play Rush in the years I was listening. No, it wasn't hard enough for them. Q107 had Rush, and CFNY had Catherine Wheel. I don't know if you know the band Catherine Wheel. They covered this song, and that was their version or whatever. I don't. But, Mike, I love this.

Like, this was honestly, if I were needing a good primer before, I mean, obviously, you've referred to it a few times. We should get the Toronto Star on every day, but we should get it Friday, right? This is a big day for your stuff. Yeah, get it Friday after you listen to Deep Left Field on Thursday, and Star's got a whole preview section on opening day coming up, and I've got a story about the rotation.

Gregor Chisholm, Rosie D'Amato, Laura Armstrong. Got all their stuff in there. All but Rosie FOTMs. Rosie, not an FOTM. Rosie won't come on my podcast either. So don't feel bad about that. She does not do podcasts. She says I'm strictly a print gal.

That's what she wrote me. That's what she told me too. Okay, maybe that's her line. For sure. And look, you talk about episode 1021. When you get to episode 143030 have a bunch of us over oh my god slam dunk I was chatting with Nelson Millman today because

um the uh Spider Jones would often play this clip of Don King saying double shock power like this would think and forever I thought it was double shock power but then when I was tweeting about like okay spiders coming on people were saying no Mike it's double shot I always thought it was double shock power. But then when I was tweeting about like, okay, Spider's coming on,

people were saying, no, Mike, it's double shot. I always thought it was shot. Right. But I thought it was double shock. But then I pulled the clip and I played it for Spider. And it's been confirmed. It's double shock. Wow.

CK. All right. Shock power. It's not double shot power. But Nelson Millman was sure it was double shot power. And he wrote me a DM today that say that he's not always correct sometimes he's wrong sometimes sometimes

not very often once in a while and that brings us to the end of our 1028th show you can follow me on twitter i'm at toronto mike mike wilderness tell us the exact Twitter handle we should all be following.

Wilderness. It is Wilderness. Although, at Wilderness, I know I do. At Deep LF Podcast as well. But you'll retweet

the important stuff from there. Yeah. Just follow, you can follow both. What do I care? Okay, it's not like you have

to put a stamp on it or whatever. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. I thoroughly enjoyed my burst IPA during this conversation. And Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. I am biking to Mike Wilner a vegetarian lasagna,

courtesy of Palma Pasta. So we'll hook that up. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home is at Ridley FH and Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana underscore. See you all next week. Everything is rosy and green Well, I've been told That there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who

Yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of green Cause I know that's true Yes, grey Cause I know that's true Yes I do I know it's true Yeah I know it's true

How about you? All that picking up trash And then putting down roads And they're broken in stocks The class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn because

Everything is coming up rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow won't be