Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Mike Wilner: Toronto Mike'd #585

Episode Date: February 14, 2020

Mike chats with Mike Wilner, the radio play-by-play voice of the Toronto Blue Jays, about the Houston Astros' cheating ways, Reese McGuire's poor judgement, the projected starting lineup for the 2020 Blue Jays and more. Ralph Benmergui crashes the party for the first half hour and opens up about his recent health challenges.

Welcome to episode 585 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. The Keitner Group. They love helping buyers find their dream home. Text Toronto Mike one word to 59559. And Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack, one of the most celebrated roots country bluegrass bands in Canadian music history.

I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is the radio play-by-play voice of the Toronto Blue Jays, Mike Wilner, and for the first 15 minutes at least, the host of Not That Kind of Rabbi with Ralph Ben-Murgy. Ralph Ben-Murgy. That's why it's with Ralph. Never mind.

What did I say? Because you're the host. He's not the host. I figured that out. Well, welcome both you guys. Wow, you got cool music for the start of your show. Have you never heard this show before? Well, I have.

I just forgot how it's cooler than we are, so that's cool. Yeah, thank you for having us, for having me again. I'm expecting my jacket to the Five Timers Club. You should get a jacket. I should. We're working on it. We're talking to people

like Corey's Clothiers. I love Corey's Clothier. I love that guy. Five, six, nine. No, but I mean, this guy literally just picks up a phone and spritzes and it's over.

It's just like, it's incredible. It's all extemporaneous. He's really something. Yeah, that's a skill. I met him and he said to me, you know, when you started, I didn't like you very much, but you've gotten pretty good. Because Mike. I don't believe I asked, but hi.

He probably heard you on Toronto Mic'd. I have resurrected your career. Yeah, that's it. Thank you for that. I knew something did that. I thought it was his own hard work, but no, it's you. Well, I've been told that I humanized the beast. Ralph, I'm not kidding. I've been told

this. He has been told this. Have you ever been told that, Mike? I've been told that probably at one of your listener get-togethers. I stack those events with people who love this show. Why am I playing this song?

Anyone want to guess? Because Valentine's Day? Correct. Isn't this taking you back? This is a schmaltzy love song. Peebo and Roberta? Peebo Bryson? Correct. And Roberta Flack.

First time. Happy Valentine'sack. Roberta Flack. First time. Happy Valentine's Day. Aw, shucks. Thank you. Who knew? And Ralph, is that the reason you're going to leave early in this ep? Because you need to... I have to fight the traffic upstream back to my home

to pluck my beautiful wife from her environs and take her to a Curt Elling jazz concert this evening. Wonderful. His beautiful wife who I went to camp with. That's right. And she is a beautiful wife that he went to camp with. There's no doubt about that. Mike, did you have a crush on this woman?

Probably. Probably. Oh my God, it's her. And then, oh my God, it's her. Oh my God, it's her. Now the reason you're both here, like why is Ralph here if he's going to leave so quickly it's because uh i just needed a minion no sorry how many i learned so much by the

way i i'm learning so much about judaism from listening soon you'll be jewish i'm almost there i think i think i think i'm an honorary is that how it works? Bobola Mikola. I know you need 10 people to form a community to start prayer. Yes. And I also know forever it had to be 10 males. Yes. And my sense is that it's starting to evolve in that you can now, some synagogues are allowing women to count. In almost all except the Orthodox and the ultra-conservative, yes.

Women, egalitarian is the norm in conservative and reform and renewal and with constructionist Judaism. So the name of your podcast, again, is Not That Kind of Rabbi with Ralph Ben-Murgy. And Mike Wilner. This one. This one.

I was impressed that you, in your intro there, you're still calling your podcast weekly. You're putting out like 17 a week. Yeah, really. You know, this is a rare five-episode week, and it's an accident. Like, I actually aim for two, maybe three if a great guest falls out of the sky,

like yourself, Mike. And this week, yeah, there's 10 on the agenda. And it was an accident, but there's some big heavy hitters this week. Like I did Jack Armstrong. Jack Armstrong! Do you space it out when you have that many, or do you just throw them out as they go? Throw them out.

I refuse to hold on to an episode. So that's interesting is that we recorded an episode of Not That Kind of Rabbi with Ralph Ben-Murgy and Mike Wilner. And that's going to be put together and, I guess, kept on the shelf until an appropriate Thursday morning. So it might be like four weeks or something before that drops. I like Wilner. I think we'll move him up. Oh, thanks.

It's a dry cold. It was a great chat. It was. Was it everything you hoped it would be? No. I didn't come, I never come in with expectations, but I know Ralph Ben-Murgy is a tremendously talented broadcaster and interviewer, so I was really looking forward to being on the other end.

He is very good. I connected with Mike by tweeting, not to him, about him, and just tweeting a few years ago that I thought he was a triple threat. He could do a phone-in. He could do the play-by-play. He could just talk as a guest. He was just a fantastic broadcaster. And I think he brings to Jay's games all kinds of, a mixture of intelligence, emotion, and the ability to engage the audience in a way that just makes me... Because baseball and radio

are absolutely the perfect match. I mean, there is nothing to me like a Sunday afternoon with the radio on, sitting in the backyard, listening to the Jays game with Mike, doing the play-by-play, and just thinking, this sport was made for radio.

Hockey, I don't think is made for radio. It's very hard to follow hockey on radio. Yeah, basketball is tough too. But baseball, it works. It's there, it's here, it's there, it's here, it's there, it's here. All sports on Sportsnet Radio, the Fan 590, are made for radio. Yeah, including P-Knuckle. We haven't covered any P-Kn you know what when i was working at 680 peter gross sent me out to cover cribbage once so i did that yeah i think

he was messing with you he assigned me they never aired it the north york senior games peter gross will be here monday uh we're going to put together an episode of down the stretch which is uh ontario's definitive horse racing. Can I ask Will and some Blue Jays questions? Because I don't get this chance. All right. The team itself, the way it's presently constructed. Yes.

How much change do you expect to see in that over this season? Do you see a lot of evolution, you do you see a lot of evolution or do you see a consolidation of assets i don't see much evolution i think that nate pearson who is a one of the top ranked pitching prospects in the game will be up in may or june and that'll give him a real shot in the arm both literally and metaphorically. That's going to be the, you know, last year we were talking about Bichette and Vlad and Biggio and all these kids coming up. I think Pearson is the one to really key on for this year, and that could change the dynamic of the team a little bit.

But other than that, I think you're pretty set. You're sort of still figuring out what's going on at first base and in center field but this is a year to just let danny jansen and cavin biggio bo bichette vladimir guerrero jr lourdes guriel jr let these guys play and and uh and keep that core moving forward without much change. Do they keep Vladdy at third? This year, absolutely. All the way through? Yeah, yeah.

Do you think he'll perform better on a more consistent basis in terms of fitness and ability? I mean, you know, on your podcast, we talked about these metrics and measurements that you don't like. But there is one called outs above average that attempts to measure defense that had Vlad as one of the worst defensive infielders in the game last year. I felt like, I mean, I didn't think he was very good going to his

left. I thought going to his right and towards the line he was terrific. I thought his arm sort of saved him from a lot of pretty good arm. Yeah, baubles and stuff. He's got a tremendous throwing arm. I thought he was fine but obviously

you know the objective numbers show that he wasn't. So hopefully he continues to improve, or hopefully he improves. Apparently he's in much better shape now. I think he really, really wants to stay at third, doesn't want to be someone who has to move over to first or DH. So I'm interested to see. I mean, he's never going to be a goal glover.

I don't think he's never going to be Josh Donaldson or Scott Rowland or Brett Laurie at third base. But if he becomes an adequate third baseman, then he can stay there for a long time. And what's center field going to be? I don't know. Yeah. I really don't.

I think, you know know it's teosca hernandez is to lose probably he's got enough stuff that happens that makes me think his consistency will never be there he's just not a good outfielder you know and and last year there was a long period of time where he was fine yeah better than fine even but then in september he had a few hiccups and and it just reminded you well you just never know yeah like the ball's going out there you can't have that could happen right you can't have that in center field and he needs to be a more consistent hitter too there were too many yeah um even though his second half numbers were great yeah too many non-competitive at bats butats. But they've got Anthony Alford, who's out of options,

who'll get his last chance. They love Derek Fisher, and all the metrics love Derek Fisher when he makes contact, and he's got really good strike zone discipline, and he hits the ball hard. And, you know, there's an article in The Athletic Andrew Stoughton wrote with a little blurb on every Blue Jay, all 63 of them in spring training. And he linked to a quote from The Ringer about Derek Fisher. And I can't remember who wrote it, but the author of The Ringer says Derek Fisher gets less out of more tools than anybody else. And so far that's what we've seen.

Can you imagine you read that about yourself? Underachiever and proud of it. But if you read that about yourself, don't you think that that would sort of light a fire? It could if you had the fire. If not, you would just be laid bare and it would make things worse for you because, you you know when people talk about these players as commodities and you know we what in sports you get i you know there's

a lot of armchair quarterback sports shows where everybody just pontificates about it as they were the general manager and you know we we need some more pieces not human beings that are asset management yeah we need a piece moved over here and to me it's just like hey guys these are humans they're listening to your show you're talking about them as if they're alpo dog meat at this point like just be aware that they're they're kids doing the best they can in most cases you know you got 24 year olds who are walking out into stadiums and thinking i can't even believe I'm here. And we're going hit the ball,

hit the ball really hard. Yeah. But in the case of a guy like Derek Fisher, you know, he's had three years of go rounds in the major leagues. He's I think 26, which yeah, is a kid in life,

but not in athletics anymore. No. Um, he got hit in the head with a ball. Yeah. He, he caught a fly ball with his face. That was how he introduced himself to Blue Jays fans.

You know, first impressions. Here I am laughing. Yeah, first impressions mean a lot. Now, Ralph, I'm enjoying this. I want you to continue, but you need to give me a two-minute warning before you bowl, because I need to get serious for a moment with you.

With me? Uh-oh. Is that allowed? All right. Real talk. So just give me a two-minute warning before you go up those stairs. Oh, do it now. Oh, now? Now I'm interested. Okay. What do you mean?

Leave it down like a bad salami. Just come on. There are now six episodes of Not That Kind of Rabbi with Ralph Ben-Murgy. And good idea to put your name in the title because it makes me say Ralph Ben-Murgy. Always did it all the way through. Not that anyone can spell it, but I've learned. When you were on CBC, was it the Ralph Ben-Murray show with Ralph Ben-Murray?

Well, what I learned is I'd been in show business, stand-up and all these things, and nobody knew you from Adam. If you put your name in a marquee, it meant nothing in Canada. You had no leverage, nor McDonald, nobody. It didn't matter who you were because you weren't famous in LA,

so it wasn't going to happen. When I ended up on primetime on radio radio it was prime time with ralph ben murgy i made a point of it because i realized you've got to have some leverage someone's got to be able to say well it's ralph ben murgy i don't care if it was you know sam sneed it was you know i just said what i had to say and then the next show was midday with valerie bringle and ralph ben murgy and all of a sudden especially with tv once they-Murgy. And all of a sudden, especially with TV, once they see you, you're really cooked. All of a sudden, you walk into some bank

and you're Ralph Ben-Murgy. And being Ben-Murgy was important to me. Yeah, I was just about to ask, did you ever think of, did anyone ever counsel you to change it? Yes, so one guy, some producer was like, Ralph Benson, call yourself Ralph Benson. It's like, shut up. And then I'm on a

steinberg uh david steinberg comedy special out in vancouver and they needed stand-ups and i was out they cut me out of the final show but they had this intro for me where he makes fun of my name right bambui gambui ben bengi you know and that was in the rehearsal. We're doing that. And I go, can I ask you a question when the cameras were off? And I said, do you think I should change my name? And he said, no, absolutely not. I said, why? And he said, look, if you're good enough, they'll remember your name. If you're not good enough, you're going to be a putz who goes through the rest of his life with some name he didn't ask for so stick to your name and if they can't pronounce it too bad for them wow and i thought damn right yeah and which also leads to yelling muzzeltoe in the middle of things because you don't want to hide all right

what's your serious episodes are out there yeah sorry lost my we've been doing it for i don't know a couple there's a bunch in the can too So we've been doing it for a couple of months now. Yeah. And from the first time you came on Toronto Mic'd, I sensed spirituality was important to you. Like even at very first visit, I thought I was getting the guy from, you know, midday and Friday night and everything. And you came in and you seem to be very interested in coming to grips with your exit from this earth,

like your death essentially and comfort with death. And you were counseling people on spirituality. I'm like, holy smokes. It was very interesting to hear you talk. And then your podcast on spirituality is an extension of that and fascinating. But it's about spirituality. There's not a lot of programs out there.

Maybe there is, and I'm missing them. But they're spirituality. And I'm curious, because on this program, you've never, quite the build-up, Wilner can't wait, but on this program, you've never opened up about this, but I've heard you open up about it on your show. But how much of this spirituality focus is a result of recent health struggles that you've experienced?

Like, are they related at all? I would say about eight, nine years ago, I had two big health things happen that could have killed me. And that certainly makes you, you know, you get a tap on the shoulder from death going, I am right over here. Right.

I know you think I'm, no, right here. And that's good because it, as you move into the autumn of life, right, when you're getting into, you're no longer 30 or 40, you're not even 50 anymore, you really have a gift, an opportunity to be able to say to yourself, well, what am I doing here? But I have to say that my spiritual life has been going on for decades. It's not, you know,

oh crap, I'm going to die. I better make up heaven. You know, it had nothing to do with that. I come from a very strong minority within a minority. I'm a Sephardic Jew. I'm a North African Arab world Jew. That's not what you think of when you think of Jews in North America. You think of Fiddler on the Roof. You think of people who have foods that start with K, Kul, Kishka, Knedlach, Kreplach,

and they're all beige. These are the foods of these people. It's not untrue. No. We are the sort of R&B of Judaism. So I always held on to that, and I always held on to that and i always held on to that identity they get to eat rice on passover we do have rice on pass we also have couscous which i don't like which you're moroccan you have to know i don't like couscous i'm sorry i just don't

like it kugel i don't understand it's a whole food that it's so wonderful i don't magical never seen it made it just scares me when i see it it's like a noodle thingy so anyway the answer is uh spiritually i have always uh been on a path uh i am a spiritual director so i did three years of ordination program for that and i believe that uh life is a spiritual transaction and if it it isn't, I feel bad. I feel if it's just, you know, pay your bills, get ahead, have somebody call you and tell you, oh, by the way, you're dead.

You know, you've got this thing. That's not how I want it to go. You know, I can't resist thinking of the bigger issues. But I also think that, as one of my rabbis taught, that every religion in the world is one of the vital organs of the world of this earth that we have and each of them has a function and we need to do something with them are you comfortable sharing what your health battles were no you know it doesn't matter there were things that could have killed me so uh no because the rest of it is just getting into pathologies and nonsense. And, you know, we're all very vulnerable.

Each time that I had an illness, you know, those years ago, I would see people sitting beside me, going through things and thinking, you know, they're fighting for every minute. I'm going to be okay. But they're fighting for every minute. And that surrounds us all the time. There's an edict in Judaism, if you're observant, like my father was, that you have to visit the sick. So my dad would get home, eat dinner, and then he'd put his coat back on. And I'd go, where are you going?

And he goes, Ben Dayan is sick. I've got gotta go to the hospital and he'd go for half an hour and he'd sit with the guy and then he'd come home and he'd be tired man he'd been up since 5 30 drove my mother to work and then drove to work himself he was tired but it was like this isn't whether i'd like to do this and that was one of the things i i had really admired about religious life was everything isn't optional. Like there's, you know, Shabbat is Shabbat. Things are things. And you have an opportunity to engage those things. We are now so independent and arbitrary that we can pick and choose anything we want,

including our ethics, which look at the Houston Astros. No, that's ethics. That's just like, you know what? What the hell? I mean, come on. We won, didn't we? The New England Patriots, you know? Belichick having to cheat. You have to cheat with a team like that? Why do you have to cheat?

Like, what are you telling my kid? That screw that. Any way you can win is the way you should win. I mean, the owner of the Astros was an embarrassment when he did his announcement. That was an embarrassment. He's like, you know, we would have won anyway. Shut up. You just had a bunch of guys kicking a garbage can to tell somebody there was a change-up coming.

If you were that good, why did you need to do that? So that's part of, you know, that's sort of Trumpian baseball is where we're headed. Okay, one of the most frequently cited episodes of Not That Kind of Rabbi with Ralph Ben-Murgy. Because you had a lot of great guests. You've had Laurie Brown, and you've had our former Premier Kathleen Wynne,

and you've had Biff Naked, and you've had Humble Howard, but you did an episode of Loose Skeezes. And I've had Mike Wilner. Yes, but unavailable. That's been out yet. Yeah, I was trying to keep it. Soon to be released. There will be an episode of Mike Wilner. The box set. Set, but unavailable. It hasn't been out yet. Yeah, I was trying to keep it. Soon to be released.

There will be an episode of Mike Wilmer. The box set! Set, set, set. The Loose Skies is up. I get notes and DMs and people bump into me and they say they want to ask me, like, what was it like to be in the room? Because people are, it was so tense. So, for the record, at any point in that conversation,

A, did you ever consider, you know, shutting it down? No. No, no. Give us a little detail for those of us who haven't heard that one. So, yeah, Lou Skizis is a guy who calls himself the happy capitalist, and he has a website called thehappycapitalism.com. He used to do 640 business reports. So I wanted to talk to somebody who was neoliberal,

who was a real hyper-capitalist, to see is there a soul to this thing, because I actually don't think there is. I think that it is a soulless endeavor. neoliberal who was a real hyper-capitalist to see, is there a soul to this thing? Because I actually don't think there is. I think that it is a soulless endeavor. It's an extractive thing. We extract resources. We extract the labor of people, squeeze them dry and throw them away. Everything's a commodity. So I thought, okay, that's my jaundiced little view. What about this guy? So Mike said he knew him, which I'll never... Oh, no, he's a FOTM who's been to every single

TMLX event. Okay, so Mike said he knew him. No, she's how Mike's like... I know. I'm here... Throwing him off the bus here. No, I'm here to say... No, I don't know him. He's just around. I have a great relationship with him. Right. So he comes on, and he really says things that I found really hard to have to listen to. Like, we live alone,

we die alone. I said, well, you know, I'd like to think that if I'm lucky, maybe some people I love will be around. No, there'll be a paid attendant. You know, and he did all these weird, climate change is a broken thermostat on the sun. It's got nothing to do with people. There's all this really weird stuff. But the job of the interviewer is to get out of the way and let people see the person not i could have sat there arguing point for point with him and sometimes i was found it hard to resist or did a little of it but to me it's like no get out of the way this is who this guy is and if people want to say i'm with him knock yourself out but most of the people i've spoken to were just like oh that was tough that guy sounded so cynical and and yet you know he gave us both a pair of socks when he came in i got a

great pair of socks he was a very nice guy you know and yet the world view he had is what i think is polluting us and mike you'll appreciate this his daughter because you know you know we we're all uh proud fathers of daughters. Do you have a daughter? No, no, no. I have four boys. So you're not allowed in this club. Four boys and two granddaughters.

Oh, there you go. That counts. Lou Skeez's daughter is currently the third place finisher for the World Figure Skating Championship. So she's number three in the country. Very exciting. So we're not talking some junior level or something. So, you know, the top two, I think, end up going to the Olympics.

Like that's, she's that close. Well, hopefully she can break into the top two and hopefully she'll have people who love her around her. Yeah. When she's at the Olympics. Okay, so last question. You got it, last question. And I feel bad because this is Wilner's time.

Well, when she's gone, it's going to be all about Mike Wilner. And he's a five-timer here. We've talked to Wilner. I've already humanized that beast enough times. So, Ralph, at the end of the conversation, did you ever want to punch him in the nose? You know what?

I just felt bad. I didn't feel good. I felt like I was talking to somebody that made me feel bad. And I was upset. We went out for pizza, like a detox. Yeah, you and I. Yeah, we went around the corner like, oh my God, what was that? And it stuck with me, and I was upset about the fact that so many people share this worldview.

I work in environmental stuff, and believe me, you get this all the time. I have to ask you i know you got you got to leave are we getting to a point in media culture civilization where the interviewer shouldn't step back and stay out of the way anymore no i think i actually think that we need to see more of that because i think what's happening is it's turning into mud wrestling, which is for the edification of an audience. You know, media has this tendency, political media particularly,

when I worked at Queen's Park for two years with a cabinet minister, there are kids in a playground circling and going, fight, fight, fight, right? You know, how many times do you get to see a catcher charge, you know, or a hitter charge the pitching mound because his cleats are flying in the air? And it's like, that's fantastic.

Well, to me, I don't want to be part of their entertainment value because we yelled at each other. Because the other thing in mediation they teach people is the only, so if you tell me I'm a Trump supporter, I immediately go in to kind of convince you that you're really misguided and on the wrong track. Instead, I actually get curious and say, well, why? Not, well, why? But, well, why? Why are you a Trump supporter? And then you tell me, and I go, and what is it about that policy, why? Why are you a Trump supporter? And then you tell me, and I go, and what is it about that policy that you think is going to make things better?

And that person starts to get heard, and they calm down. They're no longer fighting, and you're not just sitting there waiting for them to finish talking so that you can prove your point to them. You know, it's the same as in a family, when you're just waiting your turn

to out-argue the other person in the room you don't get anywhere i don't think i i often thought as a a host the the call-in show jay's talk i i often thought that if i was silent and just yeah and let them talk that they would see that and the audience would see that as me assenting and agreeing with them in matters of factual incorrectness. So that's one of the reasons I tried always to make sure that people were telling me the truth, that their opinions that they were telling me were based on fact,

and I didn't want to let them think that i was accepting their false promise but i used to listen to you and think well he's actually using real fact he's actually saying well if you i know you feel that way but if you look at this this and this you might think differently which is a lot different than i don't know where people from you come from but when i'm watching that guy hit i'm watching a failure you know like that's just i'm entertaining like i've had people who wanted to do co-hosting shows with me where they want to have an argument even if they don't disagree but they go but people love that stuff yeah i've i've had those conversations oh my god yeah i'm that i would never never do it yeah all right All right, listen, guys. I got to go.

My friend's camp friend was calling you there. Yeah. I would be impressed if she remembered that we went to the same camp. She did remember. So you say. Oy. He would know. He would know.

Oy. So everyone, subscribe to Not That Kind of Rabbi with Ralph Ben-Murgy. Ralph, we'll get you on for a full episode soon so you can catch up to Wilner. Take off your headphones before you get up. And don't hit your head on the ceiling. He had a hat. Okay.

Wilner, a pleasure to see you and I hope I get to see you a few more times now that you're back in the saddle. I know you get crazy busy, but I always want to go out and lunch. Yeah, now that you're in this neighborhood. I'm in the car yeah jackie mason maybe you'll bump into each other at a tmlx event uh in the future yeah and one day let me sit in

the corner of the booth and watch you do a game that would be the the ultimate of my life it would be my pleasure are you allowed to you're allowed to do that for ralph ben murphy i'll hide in the corner it's okay it's okay i'm here we'll see he forgot his wallet okay you're a mensch all right yes you're a good a good man a mensch indeed a mensch indeed that means human being i learned so many things from ralph ben murray here and there goes ralph did you did you hear ralph say he had a hat? Oh. Which is a great punchline to an old, old joke.

Tell it to me in a moment, but first I want you to close your eyes and listen to this. and imagine mel allen's voice right now uh what am i listening to do you know what i'm listening to the theme from this week in baseball of course i need absolutely ingrained man i play the reason it's loaded into my soundboard is because I played it for Jamie Campbell yesterday and I'm like, I'm going to play it for Wilner too because I got... I've never actually heard this much of it. This is the full song. It's got like a real fancy name too.

I think it's called Gathering... Gathering something. Gathering Crowds is the name of this song. And this is the This Week in Baseball theme song. And like yourself and like Jamie and like so many baseball fans of our age or of a certain age, this was everything, man. Watching This Week in Baseball was everything. Yeah, it was.

It was on right before the Saturday game of the week on NBC, at least here in the 80s. It was. And when you couldn't see see not only could you not see every team's every game whenever you wanted uh you can even see your own team more than once or twice a week on tv yeah oh yeah and it's i mean when i was growing up i was a really big uh dwight gooden fan and i realized the reason is because i would get, MET games would come on, was it WUTV maybe? Could be.

Yeah, because I would see once a week a METS game would come on the TV. And just having the exposure, and then when you got a, you know, when you're a young fireballer and easy for a kid to dig them. But I saw a lot of METS games because of the WUTV games of the week. So how did, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you there. I saw a lot of Mets games because of the WUTV games of the week. Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you there. Okay, when you were growing up and a baseball fan, how would you consume, I'm always curious how, because you're like a stitch older, not too much,

but a little bit older than me, but how did you consume your baseball news? Like you had This Week in Baseball, but what other sources for you to find out what's going on in baseball? There was, well, when I was, I guess in my early teens, um, there was the radio. I listened to a lot of Blue Jays games on the radio. Um, there was the Wednesday night and the Sunday afternoon games that you could see, I went to the ballpark. But I really don't remember how I found out about, because I knew about stuff.

Like I knew. The newspaper? Probably. Which paper? Probably just the, we got the star. When USA Today Baseball Weekly Started happening I was all over that The National I think it was called

That sports newspaper Short lived But that was That was much later on I think Did you have a Subscription to Sports Illustrated? I

I had a subscription to Baseball Digest Okay there you go. Yeah, I don't remember when. I mean, it was probably like early teens. But yeah, I had a subscription to Baseball Digest. So that was a big thing. And Sports Illustrated too. And you'd pick up Inside Sports whenever you could

and those sorts of things, yeah. Man, I love the nostalgia of baseball because you're in the documentary, right? You're in Stu Stone's Jack of All Trades. Yeah, but that's less about baseball cards and eventually his dad. But there's a good nostalgia tying off the top of that thing. So shout out to the second episode in a row. I got to give a shout out to my buddy Stu Stone, who hopefully he's working on his next doc because he's very talented.

And that's on Netflix, by the way, if you want to see Jack of all trades on Netflix. Please do. It's well worth a watch. Starring Mike Willner. Hardly. I'm glad that Ralph's gone because now I want to ask you the truth about being on his podcast. What did you think it was? I'm curious because i

kind of it's interesting because when humble howard was on it was about uh golf as religion and i saw i i mean wasn't wasn't hard to sell them on you i don't want to make it sound like that but when i pitched you as a guest i said uh mike could talk about i knew that you were of course um i knew you were jewish but I thought you could talk about, you know, baseball as religion, sort of. And then I was listening. I learned so much about you because I learned, for example, maybe you could tell us all

the days you won't work. Like, as a Gentile, that's the term, right? Uh-huh. What is, tell me the, because you won't work some holidays, and I heard you won't work the last, you're not working the last game of the season. And just, can you help us Gentiles understand this,

the days that you're taking off? Sure. Yeah. There are what are called, I guess people call them the high holidays, but I think that that, when you say holiday, people sort of think, oh, you know, you're kicking back and vacation and whatever.

And so I'm starting now to try to refer to them as the high holy days. And that is the new year and then Yom Kippur, which is the day of atonement because i've always thought that when you know when i tell people i'm not working because it's the jewish new year then the the thought might be yeah having a party or you know drinking or um ringing in the new year at midnight it's it's far more of a solemn and spiritual and reflective time. So yeah, I don't work Rosh Hashanah, which is Jewish New Year. Literally, the literal translation is head of the year. And I don't work Yom Kippur, which is the Day of Atonement, which is the holiest day on the Jewish calendar. And I don't work the first two nights of Passover

because that's more of a festive thing. But it's a festive gathering. It's called a Seder. The families are together. And I just, you know, I'm not going to be the one who misses out on important family stuff for work. And very luckily and generously, my employers have said it's okay to miss that time.

So that's wonderful. No, that is good to hear. So which is the holiday that is happening on the final game of the regular season? That's Erev Yom Kippur. That's the. No, that is good to hear. So which is the holiday that is happening on the final game of the regular season? That's Erev Yom Kippur. That's the first night. The Jewish calendar, the days begin at sundown and end at sundown.

So when the sun goes down, it's the next day. So Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, begins at sundown on the last day of the season. And on the last day of the season, the Blue Jays are in Cleveland. The game starts at three o'clock. It should be over before sundown, but it's in order to get home.

And, you know, I just, I can't, so. And I heard you say this to Ralph. I'm not going to regurgitate the entire episode because people should subscribe to Ralph's Excellent Podcast, but in the unlikely scenario that there's a one-game playoff for the Jays to make the playoffs,

you'd have to miss that game too because that's the day after the regular season ends. Well, there is a scenario in which if there's a one-game playoff and it's in Toronto and it starts at 8 o'clock when a lot of playoff games start, I could conceivably get there. But generally, well, it's, I mean, the time changes every year

because obviously Sunday, again, the Jewish calendar is a lunar cycle so that's why the jewish holidays move around and for the gentiles the best way to to help understand that right it's like easter easter's not at the same time every year easter moves around because it's based on passover so it follows right there usually so um usually yom kippur will end around 7.30, 20 to 8. So I could conceivably get there for the start of an 8 o'clock or an 8.15 game having not eaten for 26 hours or had anything to drink.

But I would probably do that. I'd say, yeah, the odds on you needing to worry about this are slim. They are very slim. Slim to none. I'm not going to say the odds on you needing to worry about this are slim. They are very slim. Slim to none. I'm not going to say the none part, but they're very slim. Now, I'm glad to hear no one at Sportsnet has

ever said boo about this. This is something you're doing for your religion, for your family. Yeah, for all of that. Sure. And, you know. And to be in sort of, you know, to be an example as my profile gets bigger

to be an example to people that, hey, you can do this, right? Do you ever get blowback from ignorant fans? Like do people ever, you ever get any, you ever get any, anything with a hint of antisemitism or anything like that? Not for that, no. But for anything?

Yeah, occasionally. Very, very rarely has there been an anti-Semitic comment. There were a couple on Jay's talk. There have been a few on Twitter, but not a lot. Do you ever take a step back and realize that you are currently living your dream. Like you, you now, and we talked about this the first time you were on,

I listened, the first time you came on Toronto, Mike, we talked about your dream job. And I, I said, would Bill calling it. And you said that would be your dream job.

And you have this job now, you know, you're now the radio play by play voice of the Toronto blue Jays. It's kind of insane with Ben Wagner, of course, who does a wonderful job as well. But yeah, it's nuts. And I'm just, I'm extremely happy for you. Thank you. This is, not everyone gets, how many guys out there are living the dream, you know,

that there are dreams that they had. And do you remember when you started having, when did this become your dream job? Like, can you go back that far and say, oh, you know, i was in primary school or i don't think that i mean i don't it always seemed like something that would was impossible to achieve so i don't think i ever spent much time dreaming about it to be honest with you but i mean, I remember listening to games when I was like 10, 11, 12, falling asleep with a little Radio Shack pillow speaker under my pillow. And, I mean, I know I went to Welland when I was 19 to broadcast a ball game, so probably around then, but I even then never thought that that it would it was anything more than just a summer of

doing something that that was really really cool but how do you how can you even imagine that you can make a career out of that you know good point because it's not like there's an abundance of such positions right like and you made a one last time I'll steal Ralph's thunder and then I'll stop doing it but it was you made a comment about how know, you're calling Jay's games with Ben Wagner on the radio, Blue Jay's games on the radio. And that would usually make you like a top play by play guy in your city or one of the top guys in your city. And you aren't even able to make the, you know are the best play-by-play guy from your, remind me, your primary school? Yeah, elementary school. So, that's unbelievable. Ben Wagner's the best play-by-play guy ever to come out of his town in Indiana, right?

And it just goes on down the line you just think of of whoever john sterling's best play by play guy ever to come out of wherever he's from and and all that stuff and yeah me not so much because i went to the same elementary school as dan shulman unbelievable that's unbelievable that's unbelievable you're not even the greatest blue play-by-play guy to come out of your primary school. Diane Sweden wrote a nice thing on Twitter about us. She said, Has Mike Wilner had the greatest number of appearances on your show? I recently enjoyed his kick out the jams with you.

I wonder what he thinks about the Astros' recent quote-unquote apologies. Okay, before we get to that last part there, I'm going to answer this question. So I did a little homework because I thought, okay, this is your fifth appearance, Mike, and we should have a jacket for you, but I am working on it.

Is that the best? I went to the records and I'm going to make some rules. I'm going to exclude Mark Weisblot's appearances because he gets scheduled once a month throughout the year. He's literally in, I don't know, 25 or 26 times now.

Also, I'm not the most prolific Toronto Mike guest to come out of my high school. That's right. You and Mark Weisblot went to the same high school. We were in the same grade. We went to high school together, yeah.

So we've learned you were in camp with Ralph Ben-Murray's wife and you went to primary school with Dan Schulman and high school with Mark Weisblot. All of these great FOTMs in your life. You're a very, very lucky man. Now, okay, so I'm excluding Mark Weisblatt, and I'm excluding TMLX events. So if somebody comes to a TMLX event and jumps on the mic, which you did at the last one, by the way, that's excluded. So here's the current leaderboard. This is very exciting. I should play a drum roll.

In first place is Mark Hebbshire. And I'm not even surprised by this because he's here a lot. So in fact, he's booked again in a couple of months to do another sports media round table. So Hebbsy man, Mark Hebbshire is at seven. That's the leader. And then you've just tied the following two people.

So congratulations. You've now tied David Schultz, who is at five appearances, and Mike Richards, who is at five appearances. Have you ever met either of those two guys? I don't know. I think I've met Richards.

Schultz, for sure. But yeah, I think I've met mike richards but i would i would take hebbshire off that list because you produce a podcast to his and he's here all the time hardly fair true there's an asterisk beside it perhaps we'll stick an asterisk on it i will but i'll always i'll always uh dine out on the fact that Kick Out the Jams was an inspiration of mine. So that makes me very, very proud. And what Mike means is that I got the idea for Kick Out the Jams after reading a tweet from you. And the tweet was something about how you were loving Pearl Jam 10.

Like you were listening to Pearl Jam 10 or you loved it. Like, do you have any feelings to where Pearl Jam's 10? Yeah, no, it was a great album for sure. Yeah. I'm just trying to remember why and what it was, but yeah,

it did have something to do with that. So this, okay. So I was thinking, oh, Wilner, I was thinking you were like an 80s guy, like sort of cut from the Greg Brady cloth of a little stuck in the 80s and no disrespect to that.

I'm stuck in the 90s, so it's fine. But you, and I saw this tweet about you liking Pearl Jam's 10, one of my favorite albums of all time. And I had this whole, I think I went for a bike ride, and I was thinking, Mike Willner, like, I know him from Jay's talk. I like his work. A lot of, you know, and I always thought he might be an 80s guy. And one of it, he loves Pearl Jams 10. I love Pearl Jams 10. I wonder what other music Mike Willner loves. And then I extended

that to think, like, just take anybody like Dave Hodge, who is on the list here. I'm going to talk about him in a second. What songs does Dave Hodge love what songs does Damien Cox love basically that was it and then I think Hebsey was my first jam kicker but you were in the you might have been the second or third I was an early days jam kicker so I had this idea of the bike ride and I reached out

and I just think I sent you a note I sent a few FOTMs a note and said hey would you come in and play your top 10 songs of all time and talk about it and you were into it and that's we're still kicking out the jams. Scott Turner, he's made his like a multi-part series where he's taken five jams from each decade and he's coming back on April 1st. So yeah, your jam kicking was amazing. So Diane Sweeting, he's, if we don't count Hebsey, you're now tied in first, but I want to give a shout out to some other four timers here so Dave Hodge I mentioned he's been on four times because I I'm not counting

the reporters live there was a live event that the reporters did at the Paradise Theater and it was an episode of Toronto Mic'd but I'm not on this like I mean I didn't count it as a Toronto Mic'd appearance so four excluding that uh Damien Cox has been on four times. The lowest of the low, at least Ron Hawkins. So Ron Hawkins has been on four times. And Humble and Fred have been on four times as well.

So there's the ranking. You're in good company, Mike Wilner. I'm very honored to be in that group. And I mentioned the TMLXs, and I saw you at the one TMLX5 at Palmer's Kitchen. And I witnessed a great moment because I got to put you on the mic,

and I got to put Peter Gross on across from you. And Stu Stone was there too. It was just a really, really, I really enjoyed that event. Perry Lefkoe was there. I mean, like you're really digging deep into my history. Not intentionally, but, and I didn't even know Perry Lefkoe was there. I mean, like you're really digging deep into my history. Not intentionally, but I didn't even know Perry Lefkoe was going to show up. Apparently he lives around the corner or something like that. Perry's little sister used to babysit me.

She was my cousin's best friend. And remind us how you're connected to Peter Gross again. Peter Gross hired. Peter Gross is responsible for all of this. again. Peter Gross hired, Peter Gross is responsible for all of this. Peter Gross gave me my first job in commercial radio at 680 News in 1995

and yeah, without that, none of this happens. That's amazing. It's amazing that, you know, I now have this life where you'll pop in, do something with Ben Murgey and then you'll do my show and then Peter Gross is going to be here Monday and we're going to do his show. Like, just kind of crazy if you step back and look at maybe i'm like you

you've got your dream job calling chase games and i get to chat of you you interesting people and you've i mean you built this yourself this is really a tremendous thing from you know one little podcast that you decided to start almost 600 podcasts ago. Now this whole digital studio thing, it's terrific. Thanks, man. No, thank you very much. I mentioned that you were at TMLX5 at Palma's Kitchen because I've got another lasagna for you.

And okay, I'm learning so much. But as I recall, tell me if I get any facts wrong, to be kosher, you don't mix meat and dairy. Do I have that right? That's one of the, yeah, there's a lot of to be kosher stuff. There's lots of rules, but that's one of them. One of them is don't mix meat and dairy, yes. So that means you can eat a vegetarian lasagna, right?

Sure, yeah. I was worried. I had meat lasagnas in the freezer, and I made a call to Palma Pasta yesterday, and I said, can you deliver me a vegetarian lasagna tomorrow? Because I said, I've got to make sure Mike walks off with a lasagna. So I believe at my front door right now, like literally on the chair, and thank God it's freezing.

It's frozen, yeah. I believe there's a vegetarian lasagna there, so I've got one for you from Palma Pasta. I would harbor no ill will, though, if I were to walk out of this house a vegetarian lasagna there, so I've got one for you from Palmapark. I would harbor no ill will, though, if I were to walk out of this house without a lasagna. I would bike one over to you when you get back from spring training. When do you leave for spring training? Next week, middle of the week.

Glad I got gin now. I also have a case of beer for you. Great Lakes Brewery, who are going to host the next TMLX, it looks like, they have sent over a fresh six-pack of craft beer. Yes, thank you. And I need to shout them out too because they do some very good work in collaboration with the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame on whose board of directors I sit.

So thanks very much to Great Lakes Brewery for that as well. I didn't know they were doing that, but they love to help the community. So that as well. I didn't know they were doing that, but they love to help the community. So that's fantastic. I wish I could remember the name of the beer that they made for the hall. Oh, they did a special. Yeah, they did a special one. They do these, they do.

Cause I saw like, for example, their brewmaster just turned 50 and I was in there the other day and they were selling cans of like happy 50th birthday beer. Like, so they will do these, like, I think they even made a beer. I think they made a beer for Strombo.

I'm still waiting for them to make a Toronto Mike beer, but maybe it's... It's none of these, but I can't remember what it's called. If it was a limited run, sometimes they don't last long, but I was going to see.

Oh yeah, that's my wife's favorite there. So happy Valentine's day, babe. That's a blonde lager. So enjoy the beer. There's a book here. I have a great book here by Duncan Fremlin. It's called my good times with stomp and Tom. He's banjo dunk in this caricature here. And he has recorded a little message for us. So let's listen to banjo dunk. This is banjo Dunk, and for the last few weeks, you've been hearing my ads on Toronto Mic'd about the Big Stompin' Tom show coming up on April 16th, 2020.

But there's another Banjo Dunk production that's happening very soon. My music buddy Douglas John Cameron and I, known internationally as Doogie and Dunn, are going to be performing in Oakville at the Moonshine Cafe on February 27th, not too far from Toronto Mike Head Office. So, if you live in Toronto, Oakville, Mississauga, Burlington, Milton, and surrounding areas, you'll find all the information you need at themoonshinecafe.com. We look forward to seeing you on February 27th. Thank you, Banjo Dunk.

And if any FOTMs listening have any Toronto real estate questions at all, please text Toronto Mike one word to 59559. The Keitner Group have partnered with Toronto Mike to fuel the real talk. And I sincerely believe that Austin Keitner can help you out I heard from an FOTM yesterday that reached out to uh to Austin Keitner about a property in Mimico and they had a great conversation and again no obligation to sign anything or do anything but engage uh the Keitner group uh by texting

Toronto Mike to 59559. And it helps your favorite podcast. So thank you for doing that. And finally, Mr. Wilner, I have a Toronto Mike sticker for you. It's lovely. Quality sticker from StickerU. Go to StickerU.com. You can have decals like you see on the wall here.

You can buy temporary tattoos and badges, magnet badges, like you got at TMLX5, and stickers and decals and everything you can imagine. So they're great people, and it's quality stuff, and you can order any quantity you want. There's also a bricks and mortar store on Queen Street near Bathurst where you can visit the sticker museum they just opened and it's really cool. So that's 677 Queen Street West. So sticker you dot com. Okay, the end of that Diane Sweeting tweet which she alludes to the Astros

and I need to ask you, well she already asked you, but she wants to know what you think about the Astros recent air quotes, apologies. This is her tweet. Yeah, it was awful. Yesterday, there was this big thing all through the last month or two after the commissioner's report came out.

We're going to apologize in spring training. We'll open, we'll put it all behind us, and we'll go on from there. And it was, I mean, I don't know what crisis PR firm they hired, but they shouldn't pay them. It was just terrible. It was disingenuous. I mean, the owner came on and he said, you know, we don't think that the sign stealing affected the outcome of any games.

And then 60 seconds later he said, I didn't say it didn't affect the outcome of any games. We would have won the world series anyway you know you go to game seven of the world series and you win you're winning it by the thinnest of margins and and to suggest that that didn't help um is is ludicrous i don't know that they could have said anything that would have made everybody happy but that was just it was just just awful. As a fan of baseball, are you angry? About the apology? No, about the fact that they did this. What are your feelings about the fact that they communicated

and tipped off pitches in this manner? I mean, I don't know if angry. I mean, maybe it's from a parent's perspective. I'm disappointed. I'm not upset. It's just sad that we've moved this way where winning at all costs is the only thing that matters. And I've been involved in these discussions where

this isn't kids it's professional baseball they're paid to go and win but there are still rules and you still have to abide by them and you can't cheat your way to victory and well but clearly you can uh because they did um but i mean the more i think about it the more i think that that this is it's sort of akin to the Black Sox and that a lot of these guys should just be thrown out of the game. And maybe if there was a commissioner of baseball who actually worked in the best interest of baseball rather than for the best interest of the owners, then we would have seen something like that. But it's not done by any means kurt suzuki uh who is a catcher for the nationals

came out today and said he firmly believes that there were they were cheating during the 2019 world series that they he heard whistling and and there there were complaints about that before the yankees too um but suzuki said he he heard heard whistling and there was a huge strikeout in a game when the crowd got so loud that they couldn't hear it. So look, the Astros players were given immunity in exchange for testimony, but only if they were going to be completely honest. And if we find more things out that prove that they weren't completely honest, I have no problem with lifetime suspensions for, I don't know, all of them,

everyone who lied to the investigators or everyone who's implicated in this. It never occurred to me until the last little while that, yeah, like if that's the way it has to be, that's the way it has to be. What do you think about removing the title? I don't think it does anything. You know, I, I, it happened. The city celebrated, the players celebrated,

everyone went nuts and it's, you know, maybe you can't hang the banner or maybe someone suggested they hang it at half staff. But it happened. And I don't think you can revise history that way. I do like the idea in the Mike Bolsinger lawsuit that they should give all the playoff money to various charities. I think that that's that's dirty money and that they shouldn't be allowed to keep that what do you think about

that lawsuit do you think he's got a he's got a point like beyond that fact that that is a good idea uh do you think he's got a legitimate uh beef there yeah i mean mike bolsinger wasn't an all-star right he wasn't even a regular he was a fringe major league pitcher but he was a fringe major league pitcher who could have carved out a decent career as a 12th or 13th man in a in a on a pitching staff he had a 457 era in 2017 when he wasn't facing the Houston Astros. And his ERA for the season was over six. And the last game he pitched, they beat the crap out of him.

I think they scored four runs and he faced nine hitters and got one of them out or something. And he hasn't pitched in the major leagues since. So Seth Lugo of the Mets came out yesterday or today and said the reason that he is a reliever now is because of the Astros. His last start was against Houston in 2017, and they knocked the crap out of him, and he's been a reliever ever since and a quality reliever but hasn't been able to get back in the starting rotation.

There are lots of these stories out there, and there's merit to all of them. Yeah, say it ain't so this is such a such a yeah such a black mark on the game and the integrity of the game and that to me which is everything like it has to be you you're buying a ticket you're watching a game you're listening to a game under the impression that you're getting a fair fight you know even if one team's a lot better than the other team, whatever, it's still a fair contest. And if you don't have that, then that's when sports start to fade away and that's when they start to die. And there has to be integrity.

There just does in a contest. Otherwise, what's the point? You become professional wrestling, but without the soap opera and the entertainment aspect of it. D-Mo brings up something interesting, which is going to tie into a question a lot of people have about when is sign stealing part of the game

and when does it become what we're talking about now, which is an unethical practice here. So D-Mo says, the Jays have been accused of sign stealing of somebody with a white hat in center field. And he wants to know, was that ever confirmed or was that a joke? The man in white, we joked a lot about the man in white.

We did, and a white t-shirt, not a white hat. But the man in white was definitely a topic of discussion in like 2011, 12, around there. I never saw one. I never saw a guy standing up in center field at certain times, and I looked a bunch of times. They denied it up and down, but the Astros denied it up and down for years too.

Honestly, I don't know. I don't think so. And again, I looked and never saw it, but I it but i mean you never know no smoking gun there whereas with the disasters i mean whoever the guy is i can't remember his handle on twitter now but the guy who just took the time to actually start putting together the videos and i mean yeah that guy needs uh don't give why are we given is it rush limbaugh why is rush limbaugh getting the presidential medal of freedom or whatever the hell it is? Should go to this guy.

Yeah. Yeah. Seriously. And then it's so clear, you know, and the code, you can break the code really quick. I think, I can't remember now, you hit the garbage can, it's a fast off speed. If you don't hit it, it's going to be a fastball.

Could you imagine knowing whether you're getting off speed or a fastball? Could you imagine the advantage that would give you? Could you imagine sitting there and saying it doesn't help or we're not sure how much it helps? Like, it's ridiculous. I've heard a few people suggest, and I love this idea, that this season the Astros have to tell opposing hitters what's coming on every pitch.

Would that not be an awesome punishment for them? That's better than what Hebsey was telling me this morning, which is that he thinks just the first guy leading off of the Astros gets hit by a ball, like the pitchers are like, which to me is like, really? That's where we're at now? Some vigilante justice? Right.

I don't think that solves anything. I don't think that helps. I think that just serves to satisfy people's bloodlust. But throwing a baseball at a human being in a fit of pique doesn't do anything for me. I'm with you on that one, Mike. I'm with you on that one. Okay, and to continue Dimo's tweet here, he says,

Now that the Astros were caught, I wonder if they were the only Major League Baseball team of someone off the field of play signaling signs to batter. And before you answer that, because of course we don't know what we don't know, but that's a good, you should write that down. We don't know what we don't know. But I, forever, if the guy in second base is tipping, is stealing signs and there's hand signals,

we've always been A-okay with that. That was part of baseball. So is the big difference here? Because a lot of casual baseball fans are like, what's the difference? I thought if you can steal signals, that's good, smart. It's almost like if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. Have you heard this one?

I've heard that one. So the difference is, is it the use of technology? Absolutely. And the difference is between gamesmanship and cheating, I think. Like if you can, if you're standing at second base and you can figure out the sign sequence and tell your teammates and relay it to hitters and whatever, good for you.

You know, disguise your signs better. If someone's pointing a camera at the catcher's crotch and using an Excel-based algorithm to figure out, that's cheating. That's not guile and wit. Right. And what, but I don't,

I don't believe this was ever proven, but there was massive speculation and it looked bad in the video because who, who's the, yes, yes. El Tuve, the buzzer and how you can see him like,

don't open my shirt or whatever. And he runs off the field right away. I mean, that changes his shirt before he comes back out yeah like i mean come on we're not stupid am i like i mean i mean again nothing's been proven and the commissioner's report says that they looked into buzzers and didn't find any evidence i'm not sure i believe believe that um it's i mean the pitch that altuve hit was a hanging slider from a guy who throws a thousand miles an hour right but it was a hanging slider up and out usually they're coming in from a lefty towards a right-handed hitter so if you're looking you know then then you'll kind of, it's coming in on you. You're not ready to go away unless you're really sitting on a slider. And you can't, when a guy throws 103, you cannot sit breaking balls. So it's really, really difficult to believe that Jose Altuve

put that kind of swing on that pitch and did not know what was coming. The whole jersey thing just adds to it. I'm not going to say that they were using buzzers, and I also can't go as far to say that even if he was or if a couple of people were, that everybody on the team knew about it. It's hard to imagine that they didn't, but it's possible.

But, I mean, if we ever find that out, provably so that this was happening, then, like, fold the franchise. You know, move them to Raw. Well, I was going to ask you, then, what? Like, what is the proper... Lifetime ban. You're done. Out of the game. Move them to Raw. I was going to ask you, then what? What is the proper... Lifetime ban. You're done.

Out of the game. Period. I can swear on my own show, right? You don't mind if I drop a quick F on here? Fuck the Astros. Seriously. They were incredibly unlikable before we heard about all this stuff.

That helps too, right? The fact that they were so arrogant about it and that they were, you know, A.J. Hinch in a news conference before a playoff game this year said, you know, I want someone to put their name to all these whispers about us cheating. Come out and put your name to it. And Mike Fiers did, and good for him. He should go into the Hall of Fame for that alone. But, yeah, just the fact that their strut and their arrogance

and they were already really good, and yet they still felt like they had to cheat to, to beat up on Mike Bolsinger. You know, I mean, this is, this is the thing. And they,

they were vastly unlikable before. They're even more so. This is the team where the, the assistant general manager was barking at the woman reporters. Right. About, yeah, about our,

yeah, Osuna. Yep. Yes, of course. I mean, so we've already, we're already calling them the Astros, if you will.

So what do we do with Dave Hudgens? Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean, it's impossible to believe that Dave Hudgens didn't know that this was going on. It's impossible. I mean, maybe he didn't encourage it, but he certainly didn't stop it. He's done a couple of mea culpa so far, and I wish I had done more. And, you know, it's easy to get caught up in it, I think, while it's going on, right?

And you think everybody else is doing it, so you're just trying to level the playing field. And it's the same as the steroid guys were. You know, Barry Bonds started taking steroids, we're told, because Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa were doing it and the notoriety that they were getting. So that's the excuse. And you can put yourself in a position

where you really don't think what you're doing is all that bad. But at some point, there's got to be an adult in the room and there's got to be some integrity. And clearly, Dave Hudgens, and I like the guy, but he did not show that and it you know he got his job with the Blue Jays based on the

success he'd had with the Astros so I don't think they're going to do anything about it but I think maybe as the chorus gets louder and louder we might see a change. Well you'd think if they were going to do something about it they would have done it. You would think. By now because you're on your way to spring training next week, and they're already there, right?

So when did the game start? Next Saturday, the 22nd. The 22nd, Ben and I will have that from Tampa against the Yankees. Oh, spring is coming. 12.30 p.m. on the Sportsnet radio network. I'm excited. That's when you know spring is around the corner. I love this. Hope spring's eternal. We're all tied That's when you know spring is around the corner.

I love this. Hope spring's eternal. We're all tied in first. This is a good time of year. Now, okay, man, I'm all pissed off at the Astros, but I'm going to ask another question from Milan. Fast time Milan, I call him. He's a good guy.

Could he, that's you, Mr. Wilner, could he shed some light on the heated comments behind closed doors by Marcus Stroman immediately after he got traded by the Jays? Never have heard the reason for the blowup. I wasn't there. So that was a getaway day. It was a Sunday afternoon right before the trade deadline, and the Blue Jays were going to Kansas City after the game.

And what I do, I don't take the bus with the team from the dome to the airport. I meet them at the airport so that I have my car there when we get back from the road trips. So I can drive back at 2.30 in the morning from wherever we wound up. Kicking out the jams. Right, kicking out the jams as we go. So I was not there i was long gone um and i it would just be speculation on my part you know there are people who suggest

that he wasn't happy with having been traded to the mets that uh that he thought that they were going to trade him to a team that was more in contention and he was angry about that who knows i i i have no idea. Okay, this next one. I can't believe I have to ask you about this, but what do the Jays do with Reese McGuire? I know this story. What are you willing to put on the record here?

And then I'll go have a beer with you. You can tell me what you really think. I mean, I don't know. They said today that it's not going to affect him baseball wise um that they're not going to take any action against reese they're not going to cut him they're not going to uh punish him um i'll say this it's very difficult to be a catcher in the major leagues if you don't command respect and it's going to be very difficult for Reese to command respect after this he did something that was just unbelievably stupid um you know whatever other factors there might have been, it's just, it was unbelievably stupid and embarrassing. And across, I don't know, a lot of people that I've talked to, he's now a

joke. And it's really, really difficult as a catcher who's got a command of pitching staff and and you know he's got so much to do if you're the center fielder or whatever you know um then you don't necessarily have to go and have difficult conversations with people and and all that stuff um or or try to light a fire under a pitcher or something. I don't know. I think that that's going to be difficult for him. And I think that it's unfortunate that this is going to be what everyone thinks of whenever they think of Reese McGuire from now forever how long. Not a dull time in Jay's land.

Really, when you think about it, you've got Dave Hudgens and Giles and you've got the whole Astros thing kind of there. time in Jay's land. And it really, when you think about, you got Dave Hudgens and Giles and, and, and you got the whole Astros thing kind of there. And then you got, now you got this suddenly, unfortunately, uh, comes out,

it seems like, no pun intended, it comes out of nowhere. And, uh, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of off field,

uh, stuff to chat about, uh, this, uh, spring training. Yeah. Yeah.

There always is. It's usually not like this, but there are, yeah. It doesn't, I don't know. It doesn is. It's usually not like this, but there are, yeah. It doesn't, I don't know. It doesn't feel like it's often like this, but I do want to talk about some on-field stuff.

But, so you leave next week. I'm trying to understand what life is like for Mike Willner. Like a lot of people probably think you get the winters off. Like, what have you just, what have you done since the Blue Jays stopped playing in late September? Was it early October?

When does it end? This year it was September 29th, I think was the last. What have you been up to since then? Not a whole lot. You know, you sort of decompress from the incredible grind of the season, working basically every day for seven months, and then you stop i you get a

chance to for me it's been spending time with my kids my my older daughter has moved twice this winter so i've helped her move a couple of times and she's that old now she has high flies and we've known each other a while now it does yeah, yeah. And I don't know, it always just, however, whatever I do in the off season, it always goes by too fast and then spring training is right around the corner. I took my younger daughter to Italy for a week. That was a good time. Where did you go in Italy?

We went to Rome and we went to Naples, New Year's Eve in Naples, which was crazy. I tweeted on New Year's Eve about the fireworks show that I've never seen anything like it. The whole city for like two hours. It was insane. Went to Pompeii. We went to Florence.

Yeah, Florence. I mean, I'm listening. I've been to Rome and Florence, so you just hit a second one. And that might be one of my favorite trips of all time was Italy. Not just so beautiful, but the food's so freaking good. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it was crazy. We existed on pizza and gelato for a week.

It was unbelievable. That's what you could do. Yeah, you basically go from one like margherita pizza to an gelato. Oh, there's another. My wife had an app, but it would be like, there's a great two-year- euro gelato place around the corner here no there's another you know it's just perfect yeah it was it was a lot of fun it was great so you got to you get you just decompress and get yourself set for uh another uh another season here too so what about like uh do you keep up to

date with all the baseball stuff as it happens? Sure. And then what about prepping yourself for the 2020 season? Are you always on top of things? So this is effortless for you or do you got to do a little homework? I mean, I don't know if I would say effortless, but yeah. But like basically my life is prep, right? It's once you're in it, you're in it. And in the winters, I want to pay attention to things. I want to know what's going on.

So yeah, I'm always ear to the ground and watching for moves. I haven't gone to the winter meetings the last few years, but I'm still keeping an eye on things and definitely keeping up. Do you have time to enjoy any other sports? Is there a B sport for you? Or is it all baseball all the time? Not really. I mean, I like all the other sports.

I was super into the Raptors championship. That was awesome. And I watched the clinching game in the Blue Jays clubhouse in Baltimore. It's already well beyond the off season once you get into the playoffs and stuff. Yeah. I, I haven't been to a Raptor or Leaf game in years and years,

but I pay attention, not rabidly and I won't, you know, like carve out time to, if, if it's on and I'm watching, sure. But,

but no, otherwise. I wondered if you picked. But no, otherwise it's more peripherally. I wondered if you picked up tennis or something, golf or something like that. As a fan? Yeah, as a fan. I'm not really. I don't really. I mean, I spend so much time on baseball

that I think to be a rabid fan of another sport would just leave I mean, leave you with almost no time for anything else. Yeah, you'd have to be a casual fan. You couldn't be a rabid fan. Because there's only so much stuff you can stuff in that brain. Although I heard you. I had only so much time.

Right. But did I learn from, and again, again, I learned so much about you from listening to you talk to Ben Mergey. But you took the LSATs. We were going to, at some point you may have gone into law. Is that right? I actually did really, like that's my crowning academic achievement was taking the LSATs.

I was sort of like, I love doing those like basic skills tests and those sorts of things. And the LSAT was like right up that alley. So I really enjoyed it, which is weird and did really well and got recruited by a few law schools in the States. And had this thing not worked out, I mean, that's probably the direction I would have gone in.

So you would have been in law and the showman would have been an actuary. Right. Is that how it works? Too funny, too funny. Okay, Albert, this is a little bit different, but Albert Retta, who went to high school with me. Hello, Albert.

He says, Wilner often posts slash comments on politics. Who does he like as the US Democratic nominee? Whoever wins a nomination. I don't care. I don't want to get into, like people are getting into these purity tests. And Mike Birbiglia is a stand-up comedian I don't want to get into like people are getting into these purity tests and, and, um,

yeah, Mike Birbiglia is a standup comedian who, who I enjoy a lot. He tweeted the other day, um, you go to a restaurant and I'm trying to remember the exact tweet, but you can get anything you want, or there is... I don't like to swear when there's a microphone in front of me, but...

It's okay. This is not airing on any terrestrial radio station. It doesn't matter. I still don't like to, but there's a full menu, and there's... One of the items on the menu is crap. Let's say that.

And he said, people are saying, if I can't get my favorite food, I'm ordering crap. Right. No, I'm with you. Yeah. And it's a big problem. So I don't care who wins the Democratic nomination. And it shouldn't matter. I've been really impressed by Amy Klobuchar. I'll say that. But she has this little shake in her speech when she's, she says wonderful things, but she's a little shaky

and it looks like nerves and I know it's not. It's like a tremor or something, but I think that's something that an opponent might try to capitalize on, which is sad in the world in which we currently live. I can't believe that there are Bernie Sanders supporters who will sit out the election if he doesn't win the nomination. That's insane to me.

Cutting off your, what is that expression? Cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yeah, they did it and it might have cost them in 2016. But it, I mean, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Whoever wins, I think that, that we're at a, a, a point in the United States where it's almost an existential issue now for that to, to maintain, to, to be able to save the U S as a democracy, this administration has to change.

Has the U.S. become the Houston Astros of countries? I wouldn't say that. I think it's very different. But it's certainly, the change has been, I mean, maybe it's just that they're saying the quiet parts out loud now when when they never have before right but but the it's the level of just blind fealty to one guy who is really not an impressive human being in any way nope uh it's it's unbelievable it is unbelievable but i'm at a point now where uh i can't i can't really care anymore like it's too it's like banging your head against the wall for years like i just i i'm now i've now so jaded and cynical and all that i i no longer believe that

humanity will realize and right and do the right thing like i can't think we're not gonna have that great end of the movie like I know that sounds terrible. I think you're right, but I don't think that you're right to check out of the process. I feel I can do that because I am Canadian. I feel like I can... That's not my country, and I don't get a vote, so I feel I can opt out on that front.

Just don't opt out here. Just don't opt out here. Just don't opt out here. No, I don't. You know, there's, yeah, you obviously can't make a change down there, but it's getting scary here too. You know, the people, you look at the people who are running

for the leadership of the federal conservatives and who they're trying to message to and pander to, it's getting a little scary. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. But that's another, like your analogy there with the menu and then the shite with the Irish translation. You can use that one here. Okay, so back to baseball here and how I'd like to close is

I would like to hear you, you you, uh, you know, spring training hasn't even started, but would you mind predicting, uh, the opening day lineup, uh, for the Toronto Blue Jays? Just go position by position and don't make assumptions because you're on Toronto Mike right now. So you're not talking to all of you to get us soon. There are some very casual or even maybe some people who aren't even sure what's going on in Blue Jay land. So, uh, could you go position by position and tell us who we could expect, who we might see on opening day? casual or even maybe some people who aren't even sure what's going on in blue jay land so uh could you go position by position and tell us who we could expect who we might see on opening day well they're playing the red socks so you would assume that chris sale will be starting so it'll

be a left-handed pitcher pitching against them uh i'm sure hyunjin ryu will be the opening day starter i'd be shocked if he wasn't all of this is assuming health that they don't. Yeah, let's assume everyone's healthy. Yeah. Danny Jansen will catch. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. will be at third. Bo Bichette will be at short. Kevin Biggio will be at second.

The outfield will be Lourdes Gurriel Jr. in left, Teosca Hernandez in center, and Randall Gritchick in right. And then I'm not so sure because you have Travis Shaw, who's likely to be the first baseman, but he's a left-handed hitter and coming off just an awful, awful season last year. And your leading candidate to be the DH is Rowdy Tellez, another left-handed hitter, who's actually performed better against left-handed pitching than not,

but Chris Sale is a different kind of animal. It wouldn't surprise me if Anthony Alford makes the team, if he's in center field on opening day and Teoscar's DHing. Right. Maybe Brandon Drury is at first, but probably Shaw. It would be a lot easier if it was a righty starting against them. Okay, yeah, so we'll do it. Okay, yeah. Run through the lineup when it was a righty starting against them. Okay, yeah. So we'll do it.

Okay, yeah. Run through the lineup when we face a righty for the first time. It would be the same, except you're sure that Shaw is going to be at first and Rowdy is likely to be your DH. Derek Fisher may fit in there somewhere. He and Alford are both out of options, so that means they have to make the team or be exposed to waivers.

So it wouldn't surprise if Fisher gets a significant look in center or in right over the course of the season. Tay Oscar does some DH-ing, but all the other positions are pretty much set in stone, and I think Danny Jansen very clearly is going to now get the bulk of the work behind the play. If Shaw's at first base, ever in the history of professional baseball has there been an infield comprised completely of sons of major league baseball players? Yeah, I don't know.

You know, that's going to be really interesting because Travis Shaw is Jeff Shaw's kid who was the closer for the Reds and Rockies way back when and obviously Biggio, Bichette, and Guerrero. So that's... It's really unbelievable. I mean, to me, it's unbelievable. It's amazing, yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, you know, it seemed like such a rarity back in the day. Like, oh, there's Ken Griffey Jr. and his dad played and there was these, you know, a few examples here and there, but now it just seems so commonplace that we see children of professional athletes. Good genes, right? I think it's good. Yeah, good genes, of course.

But that's why teams chase them, too. Access to that specialized training and everything. And, you know, we all saw Cecil Fielder hitting bombs at the, I guess, at the Dome when he was a kid, right? Prince, yeah. Prince, right. Yeah, Prince, of course. At Tiger Stadium when he was a kid. Right, yeah. Prince, right. Yeah, Prince, of course. At Tiger Stadium when he was a kid. Right, right.

Oh, yeah, so it was at Tiger Stadium. But, right. And, yeah, so it's definitely an advantage to be a child of a major league star here. All right, now, because I've got to keep it to 90 minutes because I've been recording all day and I've got to go pick up my three-year-old at daycare here.

But starting rotation, do you want to take a shot at the starting rotation? Well, Ryan Barucki got shut down today, so we know he's out. For me, it's Ryu, Chase Anderson, Tanner Roark, Matt Shoemaker, and probably Trent Thornton as your fifth guy. Maybe Shin Yamaguchi. I think they like him as a late-inning high-leverage reliever more than as a fifth starter, but maybe he starts the season in the rotation.

But the fifth spot is really the only one that's up for grabs, again, assuming health. Always assuming health, absolutely. Do you listen to podcasts? Some, yeah. Some, not a whole lot. I should probably listen to more and listen to more. So when you're in your car.

I don't listen to podcasts in the car. Okay, okay. So you just, when you're just mowing around. I feel like I need to, like if something happens in the world, I need to be made aware. But yeah, like I try to walk every day for like an hour plus. Oh, good for you. So that's when I do my podcast.

Do you even get out on days like this? Do you get out when it's like minus whatever this is, minus 17? I've been pretty bad since I got back from Italy. December was amazing. You could check my phone for my numbers, but they've drastically reduced since I got back from Italy, since it's gotten colder and the footing has been less good. I admire you for biking no matter what.

But, yeah, once the season starts, I'm going to try. On the road, it's really easy just to get up and wander around a city before a game. At home, it's less so, but it's something that I really need to do. I ask about the podcast because I'm just curious if you have a preference for the length. Does the length of a podcast matter to you?

No, but I also am not concerned with making sure I listen to the whole thing in one sitting. Like there have been podcasts that I've listened to over three days and that's fine. So yeah, no, um, no,

the, the length, most of the ones I listened to are probably in the hour ish range, but, um, but gross is only half an hour. Gallagher and gross. Gallagher and gross. Gallagher and gross.

Save the world. Um, yeah. 22 minutes we aim for. Yeah. I listened to a podcast called relatively sane. It's a, a Jessica Kirsten who's a comedian.

And those are usually about 40 minutes. Um, I listened to the good place podcast and those are usually an hour 10 or something. So yeah, it varies. And, but you, would you ever deny a podcast that looked interesting to you hour 10 or something. So yeah, it varies. But would you ever

deny a podcast that looked interesting to you because you said, oh my goodness, it's two hours and 20 minutes. No, I can't remember who you had that was super long. Scott Turner? No, it was a sports guy. It might have been Griffin, or sorry, it might have been

Perkin Elliott. And no, that... That should have been longer, right? I'm might have been Perkin, Elliot, and Noah. That should have been longer, right? I'm with you. I was worried they'd collapse. They're not young men. So that didn't matter how long that one was, for sure. That was a good one, eh?

I'm very proud. I'm proud of this one, of course. I get to see my buddy Wilner for his fifth time. But that Perkins, Elliot episode, to me, that was a moment of that Perkins Elliot episode to me that was a moment of pure magic I need to do that again they're I mean a lifetime in the game

both of them it's they're wonderful and they both have sort of interesting ways of talking which I like like old school right gruff and

little mumbly yeah I know I love that stuff I almost said the S word again, but we don't, Mike, we don't swear on an open mic here.

Open mic with Mike and Mike. Mike Willner, thanks so much for doing the Ben Murgy podcast and sticking around. So you did an hour of Ben Murgy and 90 minutes of me. So you've been yakking here for two and a half hours. I have to set you free, brother,

but thanks for doing this. My pleasure. And good luck in Florida. Thank you. And that to set you free brother but thanks for doing this my pleasure and good luck in florida thank you and that brings us to the end of our 585th show you can follow me on twitter i'm at toronto mike mike are you at wilderness 590 yes wilderness very clever our friends at great lakes brewery are at great lakes beer palma pasta is at palma Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U.

The Keitner Group are at the Keitner Group. And Banjo Dunk is at Banjo Dunk with a C. See you all next week. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the snow wants me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rose and green. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.