Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Mike Wilner: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1650

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

In this 1650th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Mike Wilner about his relationships with Cito Gaston and Jerry Howarth, his feelings about visiting Florida to cover the Blue Jays for The Toronto Star, and how Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins manage to survive blunder after blunder. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1650 of Toronto Miked! Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA Palma pasta enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma pasta in Mississauga and Oakville and yes I remembered to get a vegetarian lasagna today. I did not forget mr. Wilner Recycle my electronics dot see a committing to our planet's future, means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Building Toronto Skyline, a

podcast and book from Nick Ienies, sponsored by Fusion Corp Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, returning to Toronto Miked, it's Mike Wilner. Welcome back, Mike. Thank you. Thank you for having me back. It's been a while. I took a note. The last time you were on Toronto Miked was a backyard episode around this time of early April, 2022. So it's been three years since

you've been on Toronto Mike. Was that alone or was that with my brother that Oh, the brother was a zoom during the heat of COVID. And then I opened up the backyards because we were still in, we were still being careful, of course. And you dropped by, we did it in the backyard April 6 2022 this now that you're in the basement it will find out you know how I got so lucky to get Willner back in the basement but this is your ninth wow your ninth appearance on Toronto Mike and the first appearance Mike Willner was 11 years ago can you believe it like so it's been over a decade and it was episode 96

so you got in for the double digits and Do you remember your first visit? I remember I remember not hitting my head on the the ceiling down here. Yeah, and I remember that you were interested You wanted to talk I would back then I was hosting Jay's talk, and you said you wanted to humanize me, which was awesome, and I think it worked. And I think I humanized you. I think you did. I think I saved your career here, because.

How long was I gone after I talked to you? Well, let me write, it's always fun when I look at, so I'm not gonna read the description for all eight appearances, just the first time you drop by, which was episode 96, and I'm 96, I'm still figuring out what the hell this is, what I'm doing. I didn't have a radio background.

I didn't have Peter Gross putting me on 680 News, like you did. Like I did, yeah. As discussed at a TMLX event at Palmer's Kitchen once when you and Peter were on at the same time. And I got to hear your kind words for the legendary Peter Gross. But here's what I wrote.

That was a good day too with Perry Lefkoe, whose sister used to babysit me. That's wild because Perry Lefkoe's brother is a highly sought guest on this program who loves Toronto Miked and won't... come on. Wow. Isn't that interesting? That is. I know. And he was in the lowest of the low documentary directed by Simon Head, but he does for some reason he doesn't want to talk about his career and times. But the description I wrote in 2014 for your first visit, Mike chats with Blue Jays broadcaster Mike Wilner about his career in radio. So I suppose we covered all that 680 590 CIUT CIUT where you did not. I'm trying to remember. Did you paths with Mark Weisblot? No, we went to high school together.

Right. And I remember you didn't have a lot of memories but it turns out you were only in the same school for a much shorter period of time than he thought. Because I think he was disappointed you didn't remember him as well. I remember him. I just don't, you know, I don't think we were, we ran in the same circles that often, but I believe he graduated with me, but so that would have had us together for three years. Three years, okay. So we talked about your career in radio. We talked about the Ceto Gaston controversy, which is, I have Ceto coming on Toronto Mike in June because he's doing work with the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team at Christie Pitts. So should I ask Ceto about this? I mean honestly I don't know if he'll remember, it was 15 years ago now and you know we sort

of mended fences, we've run into each other a few times since and everything is fine. Yeah, it's a long time ago. And it was a much bigger thing, I think. From. I don't know if you're paying attention to me rather than, you know, for him, it was just another day at the office. And could you surmise this in like one sentence for those who, of course, everybody can go back to episode 96, but in one sentence, could you surmise this CEDAW controversy? I mean, what happened was I asked him a question that he didn't like and he, uh, well, when

CEDAW came back in 2008, I think to manage the Blue Jays. I think that's right. Um, I was very critical of his, uh, strategy and his tactics. And, you know, I didn't think he was, uh, a wonderful tactical manager. I didn't like a lot of the things he did. I didn't like the way of the things he did. I didn't like the way he buried Travis Snyder, for example. And so, you know, on the post game show,

I was critical and a lot of people did not like that because obviously, you know, Ceto is an icon, right? A saintly figure. Yeah, for a lot of people, for sure. Managed two World Series victories. Right, and we got into, I wouldn't even say an argument, a discussion about how he used the bullpen

the night before because there was a game in which he didn't have his closer, or he didn't have a left-hander available, and the closer was struggling, and he didn't have his closer or he didn't have a left-hander available and the closer was struggling and he didn't have no, he had used two relievers his his number two and number three relievers to get an out each in the bottom of the in the top of the eighth and it wasn't necessary he could have had the second guy the one guy then had another one held in abeyance so and then the closer Kevin Gregg at the time blew the save, um, in just

spectacular fashion and didn't have anybody waiting. And we talked about that. I talked about that a lot after the game, obviously, because it cost the J's the game. Um, and then the next day. In the dugout before the game, um, somebody else asked him about something. And then there was a little back and forth that was uncomfortable I asked one question too many because I wasn't gonna get the answer I wanted

no one was and he said something I can't even remember what he said but I wrote about it the next day because it was sort of insulting and belittling and evasive and and then I was told by the new program director at the fan that after a day off this was on a Wednesday I think so the Thursday was a day off and then Friday Don um, Don Collins, who was the new program director said, don't come into work this weekend, just take the weekend off. Um, and it was something that shouldn't have happened. And, um, you know, under Nelson Millman, who was, you know, the, the legendary

program director there would never have happened, but that obviously that sort of Barbara Streisand did it and made it even bigger than it needed to be. Well, I remember at the time people saw it as like a shot across the bow. Like it was like sort of without censoring you, like sort of making you think maybe you should self-sense censor or, you know, have that happen. Yeah. I, you know, it was a, it was not painted as a punishment and Collins kept saying, no, he's just taking the weekend off.

But I, you know, clearly wanted to be there. Um, it was a big series against the Yankees and, uh, there was very obviously, uh, he told me at the time you're too close to it. You need to step back a little bit. I'm not sure that I know what that meant, but, um, but yeah, it, uh, it's the only time that there've ever, there were ever any repercussions for anything I said on the air in the 20 years that I was at the fan. Did that change the way you covered the trot?

And I feel you can talk more openly about this now that you're not with Rogers and maybe the first time because you were still employed You were maybe a little more careful, which I would totally understand But do you think you changed the way you cover this team after that benching? No, I don't I mean I did change the way I talked about Cito. I was very careful And for a while there didn't use his name just referred to him as the manager as, a winking, Hey, I don't want to get in trouble for criticizing. So I just referred to him as the manager, um, which led for half a season to Jerry Howarth were, um, not saying my name on the radio, which was an interesting, um,

Well, I was going to ask you about Jerry. He just had a birthday. I also wanted to. Yeah yesterday I think he turned 79 but I know he's been in the basement we had our 90 minutes we talked about everything and I definitely got a sense like that you know he wasn't warm fuzzy for Mike Wilner and I sort of tried to read the, read the room as they say, but, uh, what's your, like, did you guys ever make amends? You and Jerry, I rubbed Jerry the wrong way from almost from the beginning. Not, um, not right at the beginning. Um, but he, he didn't like the fact that I would be critical.

He didn't like, I think I don't want to put words in his mouth, he didn't like the fact that I didn't treat everything with the same level of reverence that he did. I was always sort of like, hey, we're not in church here. This is, you know, I got I I would I was great great close friends with Tom cheek with Alan Ashby with Joe Siddell with everyone that I've ever worked with Dan Shulman and worked with, Dan Schulman, and maintain that to this day, except obviously with Tom, but

I, you know, I hold Tom's memory very close and dear and try to honor that whenever I can. You sure do, man. I'm going to, you know, when I head down to spring training, the first thing I'm going to do is visit his grave before the first game I see, uh, it's become an annual tradition of mine and it just sort of, you know, it's nice to see. Um, but yeah, no, Jerry was, um, I, I didn't, I feel like I didn't do things the way he wanted me to do things and that was just wasn't

didn't work. You weren't his cup of tea. For sure. Yeah sorry to hear that but I mean I sensed as much through the years but that's just a shame because you both seem like good people and big baseball fans so that's that's a damn shame. Oh I'm still on the description Mike we're out of the gates here. Yes, so I'm gonna it's very close because you mentioned that I humanized you the description I wrote this is way back 11 years ago, I wrote whether because we're talking about you, we chatted about whether you were condescending and arrogant to Blue Jays talk callers. And then when you'd block somebody on Twitter. So there's a couple of things. One is. Looking back now, Blue Jays talk in the rear view mirror several years now,

would you have changed anything, any regrets about the way you hosted Blue Jays talk? The only regret I have about the way I hosted Blue Jays talk and I. I think it's what wound up getting me fired after the twenty twenty season. I think it's what wound up getting me fired after the 2020 season I think that

I Think that it again rubbed somebody the wrong way But I I don't you know I have to be true to myself I have to be honest and and I I couldn't I have to be honest and and I I couldn't I've always sort of thought you know, I can't piss on your shoes and tell you that it's raining, right? right, that's never gonna be me I wouldn't be comfortable with that and so you know, I know people thought I was condescending and arrogant but I

Don't think I was I thinkending and arrogant, but I don't think I was. I think that people just don't like to be told that they're wrong. And if I'm embedded and I'm living this thing, I'm going to know more things. I'm talking to people who are, you know, making the decisions and who are on the field and all of that stuff. And I'm with them every day. It's impossible for a fan, uh, almost no matter what level of fan they are to, to have, to be as in tune and you know, um, and so, yeah, when

people called in and said, you know, this guy's thinking this, or I know that, you know, um, this person feels this way. No, you don't, you know, don't tell me that stuff about someone you've never talked to. Um, and a lot of people, because you know, if you're happy and things are going well, you're not really calling a radio show. So a lot of people, because you know, if you're happy and things are going well, you're not really calling a radio show. So a lot of people were belligerent,

were already in a bad mood and angry and you know, sometimes sure, I match that energy. I don't think I was ever rude to anyone who wasn't rude to me first. But yeah, I think that that's sort of what that job is. If you're going to do it well, Scott Ferguson had a great post game show for a long time and he was always very kind and always very gentle. But also, you know, and I love Fergie, but he let a lot of stuff go. Not as much as some other people. Like I remember once, and it was a sort of a seminal moment for me as far as what my

radio career was going to be. That I was listening to a call in show on the radio and someone called in and just made this ludicrous statement as his thesis statement and it was absolutely wrong, factually. And that was going to be the basis of his call. This was what he wanted to talk about. And the host said, uh-huh. And just let them go. And I thought, I'm never going to do that. So if you start a call with me with a thesis statement that is incorrect,

I'm going to tell you that it's incorrect and tell you what, what's really going on. Um, and a lot of people didn't like that. A lot of people did did but one person clearly who Who controlled my future at that on that broadcast didn't and once I don't know once the moment was right I guess that they decided to pull the plug And you did bounce back very nicely I would say at least from my seat here in South Etobicoke.

Yeah, I feel like I landed great. Yeah, like, so in addition to writing for Canada's largest newspaper by circulation, covering the Blue Jays for the Toronto Star, you get to host Deep Left Field. Yeah. And how is that going? I love it. I mean, I think, you know, we were the number one baseball podcast in, in Canada for the whole month of January, which was outstanding. Nice. Um, I think people are

enjoying it. I feel like I do things differently and I really love, you know, and you would, uh, um, I think you, you understand this as well as almost anybody. I love the long form. You know, when I was on the radio, uh, doing the pregame show interviews were three and a half minutes. And if I wanted to go for like we, I had to pass it by first Bruce Brenner and then Tom young and, you know, they were, uh, always mindful of the schedule, but yeah, if you can, if you need it, do it, you know, but I mean, that's four minutes and now I'm talking to guys for 25.

You know, you're preaching to the converted here. Right. Yeah. I think it's so much better. Nowhere to breathe there. Yeah. And how do you, I mean, other than, you know, pointed specific questions, right? Like how do you even build a rapport and, and get into like what I call real talk, but

get into some of the meatier subject matter when you only have, you're having two to three minutes. Yeah, you can't, it's impossible. And on a radio, like an hour long radio program, occasionally you'd have a 12 minute interview, which is nice, but being able to sit down with Kevin Gosman for 25 minutes and you get into

cinnamon buns and and you know where does he shop in Toronto and and all that stuff and it's just it's so much better than because if when you're limited to three and a half you get maybe two good questions and you get a lot of the I'm gonna give 110% crap. Yeah yeah. I love the long form love it and I love what I've been able to do with bringing people together like I had a show last winter where Jordan Romano and Danny Jansen and Ryan Barucchi were all together and we talked for an hour and that was amazing. That is like when I got Norm and Mike

Wilner together you know that's that's I know that feeling now when you speak to And we're gonna get some specifics you mentioned you're going to Florida. So I need some specifics on this But when you speak to the American-born blue Jays Will the fact that we're in a trade war and the president of the United States is speaking of annexing our sovereign nation Will that ever come up in your conversations? No, it's American-born blue jays What's interesting is in the episode of deep left field that comes out this afternoon probably probably gonna drop in like 90 minutes, okay Gregor Chisholm my Toronto Star colleague and I did a mailbag episode and the last question was about the trade war and and what's gonna be And I think you know Gregor who was down there earlier in spring training,

I haven't been there yet, um, answered it well. And he said, you're in the baseball bubble down there, right? So nothing is really, you're so, and that's the thing that I've always loved about spring training. It's like, you're fully embedded in baseball. There's nothing but baseball happening for you. The days are 10 hours long so you really don't have anything to do any time to do anything after a

game except eat dinner and then pass out because you're exhausted right and then you got to get up at 630 the next day at the latest to make it in in time which is very very difficult for me so So there's nothing but baseball happening. So it really hasn't been discussed. But on April, sorry, March 27th at the home opener, when the Star Spangled Banner gets booed by 40,000 people, it's gonna be discussed. So up until then, I mean, maybe

I'll ask that question ahead of time. What are you going to think if your anthem gets booed and, you know, I wonder how many of them are even aware. I guess they kind of have to be the four nations cup. I can totally see them not being aware. Oh, a lot of them but I think the Four Nations Cup happened during spring training and so there was a lot of talk about that about the American anthem being booed and the Canadian anthem being booed in Boston but I you know a lot of them are unaware of why what's happening the trade war

and a lot of them the annexation threats. I was telling you before we started that I'm in this baseball geek league with one of the Arkells and a couple of other Canadian stars of stage and screen, but there are a couple of Americans in there too. And a couple of them the other day were just making a couple of jokes 51st state jokes and I said we don't find that funny not funny at all right so I don't think people down there are aware of exactly what's going on up

here and I think it's gonna be a slap in the face to a lot of the American players on opening day when their anthem gets booed. So and I think some will be upset. I think at some point somebody's gonna say something dumb and then it's gonna blow up but for now there's nothing. But I will ask that question down there and it's a good idea and maybe it'll it'll sort of prepare them for what they're about to say. I'm just gonna say you know I'm thinking now Richard Griffin used to do this but they have there's somebody on staff of the Blue

Jays who's responsible for media relations. There are several. I never have to deal these people but that's your job. But all wonderful by the way Andrew Goldstein who I worked with at 680 in the 90s is the head of communications there. So I'm going to assume it would be it would be sage for somebody to like to inform the players what is happening and that when you hear booze during the Star Spangled Banner, we're not booing American born Blue Jays. This is because their president is threatening our sovereignty. Yeah, and hopefully someone will do it and I think you know I think they will

because otherwise a lot of them are just gonna be looking around and thinking what the hell is going on. Well they can't possibly be, I mean it would be, I think it would be irresponsible to allow your personnel to be blindsided. Yeah. Right, so I think it would be irresponsible to allow your personnel to be blindsided. Yeah. Right. So I think, you know, maybe you'll have to do it. FYI, they're not booing you, Mr. Gosman. Okay. Can you specifically, when do you leave for Florida? Specifically? Yeah. Like I need to know, I don't need to know to the minute. You want the flight number? I want it. What's the flight number?

I will be there for Saturday's spring breakout game. I'm really excited about that. All the best young prospects from every team are playing over the course of three days, today, tomorrow and Saturday, one game each. So I wanted to make sure that I was there for the spring breakout. Okay, kudos to the Toronto star that two of you, at least Greg Orr, who's an FOTM as well, love that guy, but you and Greg Or or have both been sent to Florida to cover this team Rosie's down there right now that's three to me in 2025 that's a that's a great

story that three different people will be you know compensated for going to Florida to cover this baseball team yeah I think it's it's wonderful you know it's it's a very much a changing media landscape and spending has been throttled back in a lot of places, but spring training is super important and the Toronto Star recognizes that. It's not what it used to be, obviously, like from 2002 to 2020, I went down for the entirety of spring training. I was there for five weeks every year,

with the exception of a year that my second daughter was born when I left a week early, and then waited two weeks, because she was late. And I continue to remind her of that. But, but, yeah, to, you know, and the star used to send, used to have all of spring training covered. It was two weeks for Rich Griffin

and then two weeks for Rosie and two weeks for Zorro or Laura Armstrong or Gregor once he got there. And it's only a week each now, but it still gives us enough time to talk to everybody and establish those relationships and that really pays off over the course of the six month season because it's different if they see you in spring training.

I can imagine. It is. So you're off to Florida for work purposes. Yeah. It's your job to cover the Blue Jays for the Toronto Star. How do you, Mike Wilner, personally feel about visiting the United States at this time? I'm not comfortable with it. I'm really, like I said the other day, I wish I could pack up all weeks worth of meals and bring them down so I wouldn't have to spend any money anywhere down there. This is the first time I've not looked forward to going down to spring

training. I have to do it for work. If, if I had a choice, I wouldn't. Um, I said a couple of weeks ago, I think, um, you know, if in the wake of, of the trade war, the, the star decided to pull the travel, um, I wouldn't push back where ordinarily I would very much. Sure. Um, yeah, I'm not happy about it. I'm very much. Yeah, I'm not happy about it. I'm really not. I'm gonna be super careful.

And just with contributing to the economy, I don't want to. And yeah, I have to because it's important for work. It's really important, especially for what I do To be down there, but I'm not gonna be I'm not gonna be doing any of the usual fun things that I Usually do when I have time down in spring training. It's gonna be Ballpark hotel eat something and that's it. And a lot of tongue biting, I bet, because when you see the, the, the red hats and

the, uh, the Trump signs, et cetera, in Florida, I'm sure it's, it's gonna, you're going to feel it. That's that. I mean, I've felt that the whole since 2016. Yeah. That's it. And it's not, you know, I think Pinellas County, where Dunedin is, has been Republican,

and it's been Democrat, and it's been Republican. I don't know what it is now, but it's a good mix. But it's very, very rare to run into someone down there, especially for me, who wants to engage politically. Like I don't know anybody who lives there, right? I'm not running into friends and all the people that I see that I'm friendly with are from up here anyway. So yeah, I've never really been cornered into a political conversation.

Florida's been problematic ever since I've been going down there, it's just a lot worse now. But I'm not worried about seeing too many red hats. Your comment a moment ago, so true that, could you have ever imagined a scenario where you would be, like I close the term, that's double negative, where you're not looking forward to going to spring training to watch the Blue Jays play baseball? Like the fact that you wouldn't want to do that.

It's kind of wild this world we're living in right now. I think that's unbelievable. My reaction to even and again, even if they're they voted for Kamala and they live in a blue state, just Americans in general is just not now Satan. Like it's, I'm just wondering how you personally, even outside of your, you know, work travel to Florida, how are you dealing with the state of the world right now and these threats that seem to be relentless, they don't seem to be dissipating as he gets distracted by something else? Yeah, I'm not happy about it. Obviously. I don't, I can't imagine how any of us here, uh, can be happy about it. Um, it's, it's a scary time. It really is. I mean,

we've for the entirety of our lives, um, and now the vast majority of people's lives in the world or in Canada and in the United States, everything's been comfortable. Everything's been fine. And the irritations, the stuff that we've gotten so worked up politically about have been obviously very important important especially the lives of marginalized people but we are freer and fairer and more comfortable right now than we've ever been in history and the I think the fact that everything has been so comfortable has allowed these like little

petty complaints and annoyances to be able to blow up and to be able to allow very unserious people to rise to levels of huge prominence politically. Um, and I mean the whole convoy crap and, and all of that stuff. And I mean, you can hate just and true to all you want in a grand scheme of things. Everything's fine or was, and now things are getting serious and It's not a joke when you threaten the sovereignty of another nation. It's not a joke when you're aligned with adversaries and You make enemies of your allies. It's not a joke

when Russia invaded the country next door and were the country next door to both Russia and the United States. And it's, you know, it's time to get serious. You and I are too old to be conscripted or, you know, to go fight. Um, but we have kids, but we have kids who are not right. I think we each have kids, kids each in our in their 20s I have or I have one who is about to move into her 20s in the other one already I just remember from from the dances. Yeah exactly But yeah, so I mean when when things are comfortable

It's easy. I think for some people to see Pierre Poliev as an option because he's gonna shake things up because you know and now that That we're in the situation that we're in You have to have someone who's serious you have to have someone who's bright you have to have someone who's Who who hasn't made their career by just you know being an asshole and and encouraging everyone to hate whoever's in power right now I I have real who uses fake outrage as a tool to gin people up, because they're not serious people.

And that goes for a lot of people south of the border. And it goes for that whole Magan North movement, which amazingly has been pushed back on so hard over the last three months. Right. The, the liberals went from 20 points down to a tie. No, if we had been having this chat three months ago, I would have seen it as a foregone conclusion that the conservative party of Canada will form the next

government and a majority majority. Right. And now there's no chance. I don't think. And that's a wonderful thing. Right. My goodness. So much to discuss here, but I don't think. And that's a wonderful thing. Right. My goodness. So much to discuss here, but I'm going to.

Yeah, I'll make let's do some happy before we get back to some depressing here. Okay. So a little happy, which is I understand Pi Day, Pi Day, everybody, if you don't know your what Pi is, it's 3.14, which would be March 14th is pie day. I understand that's a very special day for you, Mike Wilner. Yeah. I love pie. What's your favorite flavor of pie? Oh man. That's a good question. I like an apple crumble. I think that's, that's top of the list. You need some vanilla ice cream though with that. Yeah. Yeah. Caramel sauce on it. Okay. I'm sold. Holy smokes. Okay.

I understand you're going to have a happy birthday tomorrow, Mike Willner. Yeah, Pi Days is my birthday. So happy birthday! Thank you, thank you very much. And interestingly enough, one of the other episodes of Toronto Mike that we have done together, and I don't want to say which one because I don't want to give up too much information, was the day before one of my daughter's birthdays. Okay, so now people have a one in eight chance of finding out when your daughter's

birthdays. Although what are they going to do with that? What are they going to do with that information? Like I feel like the less info, the better, damn it. But yeah, but happy birthday and I again, I've messed this up in the past and I had to make amends, but I did it. I got it right this time. I have a vegetarian lasagna in my freezer right now from Palma pasta. That's for you, Mike. Well, that's a birthday gift. Yeah, I appreciate it.

It's a wonderful birthday gift. So is this tape measure that I'm playing? So that's from Ridley funeral home and they're at 14th and Lake shore and Brad Jones recorded a new episode just yesterday of life's undertaking. People can hear life's undertaking with Brad Jones in their podcast feed of choice when they're listening to Deep Left Field and Toronto Mic'd

of course at Life's Undertaking. So that measuring tape is yours. Make sure you don't leave. It's in my freezer. Don't leave without your lasagna. Thank you, Palma Pasta. Palma Pasta is going to feed us at TMLX18. And I'm throwing this at you.

If you're available, Mike, you know, I love it when you show up at the Toronto Mike listener experiences, but there is one taking place in South Etobicoke at the Great Lakes Brewery, which is 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard. I've seen you there for one in the past. Love it. I'm looking up the schedule. It is June 26th, June 26th, six to nine PM. That is a Thursday.

Lou Jayser in Cleveland during the day. So if I'm not on the road and I don't expect to be as long as this trade war is still going on, I will have that evening. Wow. I'm actually stunned, you know, looking at the Blue Jays schedule. I check it out every every year because I want to see when, you know, my life is programmed right for for six months but they play on almost no Thursday nights this year yeah usually Mondays are the big day off but they have a ton of

Thursday afternoon games and a few Thursdays off I think they only play twice on a Thursday night all season long it's very strange well I'm glad they're not playing on Thursday night, June 26, 2025 because that means people like yourself, Mike, can make an appearance. That's it's a free event again. TMLX 18. Everybody who can hear my voice right now is invited and your first Great Lakes beer is on the house and Palma Pasta will feed you. So come hungry Mike and enjoy some Palma Pasta. Love all that stuff. Absolutely. If I'm not in Cleveland and I expect that if this crap that we were just talking about continues I don't expect to want to go on the road at all this year. You might not be allowed in at that point. Wow this is another thing is I

have a passport so they can't not let me in right so I don't have to be worried about that I don't know how long I'll maintain the dual but for now I've still got it cost a lot of money to renounce your American citizenship as it turns out Bob Esrin just did it I guess you might have heard about that but the from Pink Floyd and Alice Cooper and the great producer Bob Esrin's been making a lot of noise I got to get him in the basement to talk about it further. But you said the C word, crap. So I'm gonna just ask you about your plumbing emergency, because I'm on blue sky as you are.

By the way, love the fact that you're on blue sky. I know you've been there a while now, but I just- Yeah, I might've beaten you there. No, I'm gonna go check the receipts. I think I beat you there, but your brother probably beat me there, because I saw Norm switched from X to blue sky beef and you were kind of doing both and I was kind of doing both but I got to say my go-to place if I'm gonna

you know post is blue sky and you're a great follow there thank you and are you still posting on X well so this is a good question. Don't. Came up with Antonia Zurbaisius, who you missed at the Toronto Star, gone before you got there. But it came up with her where my current, what I'm currently doing is I write it for Blue Sky and I do a control A, although on a Mac book,

is it a control? I keep dating my windows, command, I command A, then I command C, and then I drop it in five different places. So I drop it on LinkedIn, I drop it on Instagram, I drop it on Facebook, on my personal account, I drop it on Facebook for the Toronto Mike podcast account. And yes, as we speak, I do paste it into X and I don't ever check tweets on the app formerly known as Twitter. I do still check mentions which I think soon I'll be cutting that off. I think I'll do a badini and I'll be out of there. But right now I'm checking the mentions and

the DMs. Some people are still messaging me there. But soon I think I will do the cut. Have you made the cut? Yes I did. As soon as the soon as Elon Musk did that Nazi salute I was out. Can I ask you about this? So, uh, I saw it. Um, to me, there's no doubt in my heart what he was doing. None. Bruce Dobegan was here the other day, uh, telling me he was just saying hello and he's named a bunch of people who have done it. And I looked Bruce, so this is just the other day. And I looked Bruce in the eye and I said, okay,

so you think it's okay what he did? Let me record you doing exactly what Elon Musk did and I'll share it on social media that Bruce Doe began because it's fine, right Bruce? He's not gonna do it on, so anytime, and just as a message for anyone, if anyone tells you that was not a Nazi salute, just have them mimic it on a recording device

because they won't. Because they know exactly what it was of course And that was the last straw for me. I was already already at one foot out the door, but Yeah, I got too much skin in that game to to support any anyone who's doing anything like that and you know whether I I'm not gonna say I mean I was gonna say whether he meant it to be or not because very obviously he did the people who support such things understand it to be that and Again if you're sitting at a table

with Ten Nazis, but you're not a Nazi guess what I had a conversation with someone on on blue sky the other day about not posting on Twitter anymore and he said you know I don't I don't quite remember what the genesis of the conversation was but he said look he's he's got a social network there made a lot of friends that he doesn't know in real life and he's not he's not seeing any of the the horrible stuff the racist stuff the Nazi stuff and he's not engaging with any of that. It's just his place to be with these people who won't move off and he doesn't understand

or he's not going to get into them, not going to get into it with them about why. And I said, if your favorite bar gets bought by a Nazi, and their swastikas get put up, and you keep going, but you don't talk to any of the Nazis, and you're just there, and this is your place, then you're going to a Nazi bar. You know what I'm gonna do I'm gonna

make one more post I'll do the Badini move or I'll do one more post to say I'm no longer posting here here's my blue sky address if you care to follow what's going on in the TMU and that'll be it. I you're 100 you know this this half-ass thing I did which I did it for the whole baseball season last year. I did it for the entire baseball season. I posted on Blue Sky first, and then I copied it and put it on Twitter because, you know, I have 85,000 followers there almost. But the engagement is so limited there.

And again, I haven't been back since November. Someone just put it, I saw something on Blue Sky yesterday that someone with, I don't know, 15 times the followers on Twitter still gets more engagements on blue sky. Human beings are on blue sky instead of these trolling bots who it's a horrific experience for me every time I do go in. Why do I want to feel that? And just like I would not buy a Tesla, why am I pasting my content into X and then sharing

it with my followers nice I'll do one more post later today to say I'm out and that's it because I realize I your your analogy there But going to the bar Yeah, I'm going to the bar like I'm going to the bar. Yeah. Okay, that's it for me. That's it for me Thank you and I hope a lot of people follow your lead because even if you know you think and you're not but even if you think you're A small fish there and you don't have much of a following and you know You're still contributing to yeah making him money And this is you know even if you don't even if you push back at the Nazi thing

And you don't think he's a Nazi which he very clearly is thing and you don't think he's a Nazi, which he very clearly is, he's destroying the United States right now and he's the co-president of a country that wants to take our country over. Right. So yeah, no Canadian should be... That's it for me. If you follow me on the app formerly known as Twitter, that's it for me. But I am, I will say, I do post these promotional, you know, tweets when I have a guest like Mike Willner in the basement. It's going to links LinkedIn, it's going to Facebook, it's going to Instagram, and it's going to Blue Sky, of course, which is my favorite. And it will continue to do that. But that's it for me and X. So long as Elon Musk owns

that app. Thank you. And do you I did. I wasn't sure if I wanted to bring this up. Just yesterday I was visited by this filmmaker who made a great documentary about Ontario place and it's going to air on TV. Oh like later this month a couple of weeks from now I think. But her name is Ali Weinstein and her father Larry is also a filmmaker Larry Weinstein. And during this conversation I wanted to offer my condolences to Ali because And her father, Larry, is also a filmmaker, Larry Weinstein. And during this conversation, I wanted to offer my condolences to Ali

because Ali's aunt, Judy, was murdered by Hamas on October 7th, 2023. Wow. Yeah. And I wanted her to share, tell me more about Judy. And it was just a, it was a beautiful moment to hear about Judy, who sounds like a lovely woman. But then I mentioned to her my conversations lately with Dana Levinson, who I produce a podcast for.

And Dana tells me she and her family, her children, they don't feel safe in their own Toronto neighborhood. And I'm just going to ask you right now, as a proud Jewish man, do you feel safe in this city? I do, but I don't live among the Jews. This is the thing. Like I talk about once my kids are grown up and gone, moving back to live among the Jews, there are obviously a few Jewish communities in Toronto. I don't

live at Bathurst and Shepherd. I don't live in Bathurst Manor anymore. And if I did, I absolutely wouldn't feel safe because there are weekly, huge rallies that are anti Israel and that are anti Jewish, whether you whether you want to you know paint it as no Zionism is different or whatever no and the leadership in the city is doing nothing nothing to make the Jewish residents of Toronto feel safe and protected I'm I'm a big proponent of cultural mosaic and Immigration, you know, I married an immigrant

But I think leave your hate at home is a huge thing leave your hate at home and You know I live in But I think leave your hate at home is a huge thing leave your hate at home and um You know, I live in Only about 10 minutes away from here in mississauga The only jew i'm sure in my neighborhood and maybe like one of eight in the whole city But there was a there was a rally Um Um, but there was a, there was a rally. Um, there were a few in Mississauga last year and the year before, um, where there were people who were calling for Intifada and Intifada, you know, as much as you

want to put a pretty face on it means killing Jews everywhere, all over the world. That's what the Intifada is. And you know, again, as much as you want to change things and say this isn't what they mean from the river to the sea means no Israel and no Jews. You know, I'm not going to compare different ethnic cleansings, but if you take a look at the Arab world and how many Jews lived in those countries in the 40s and 50s

and how many Jews live there now, they've almost been completely ethnically cleansed of Jews. They've almost been completely ethnically cleansed of Jews And so I Harbored no illusions when I hear in Tafada and when I hear some of these other chants It's It's scary It's scarier

That it's being allowed to happen and that there are no repercussions and that Jews don't feel protected. It's scarier to see, you know, videos of Jewish people being advised to stay away from places, not free to go wherever you want in your own city, in your own country. Every time I drive past the school that I went to, the primary school that I went to, into there's a police huge like van command center sitting there 24 7 we had I don't I mean almost no outrage about the fact that a Jewish girl school has been shot at twice around Shepherd and Cheswood or wherever it is. It's a very, very scary time.

There's no question. It doesn't affect me on a daily basis because I'm like, I go from home to the ballpark and back but it's also sort of been you know something that I I grew up with you know Holocaust education for kids who go to Jewish day schools like I did starts in grade one well we don't even mention it till grade 10 if that in the public system And there are a lot of kids who just don't know and aren't aware And again when you're living in Unserious times where we have been for for a long time that stuff hasn't mattered and it's starting to matter a lot more now

But yeah, there's you know when I talk to friends of mine who live in Bathurst Manor who live up around in Thornhill where they're protesting outside synagogues and and You know, it's it's very scary Jews have always been an extremely convenient target and There are so few of us And there are a lot of people it's it's so strange to me to think of but there are a lot of people who've never met a Jewish person and who have no idea you know like there's there's an old story about one of the Blue Jays a long time ago when he met Kevin Pilar for the first time

putting his hand on his forehead and shaking it around like where are the horns? That actually happened. So yeah, it's scary. It's very scary and I understand this, one of the scariest parts of it is just the incredible failure of leadership in the city to make people feel safe. I'm very sorry to hear this. Very sorry to hear this.

I went to Catholic schools and as a result, you can imagine everyone I knew, all my buddies, I went to school with, as a result you can imagine everyone I knew all my buddies I went to school with everyone's Catholic. Sure. Like it was I was an adult I was gonna say why didn't I meet my first Jewish person but no but forget. There are 200,000 Jews in Toronto it's like one of the biggest Jewish communities in the world. I know but when you think of your circle you know it's all school it's pretty much all school chums pretty much. And absolutely this part of the reason all four of my kids have gone to public schools is because I want them to be aware that there there's a wide variety of people in this

wonderful city of ours and I want them to, I don't want them to be segregated with the only and but you went to a Jewish school, right? So okay, so it's similar thing, except, except you know the taxpayers aren't funding your school. That's right. They're funding yours. No but I but I I don't think that's right myself but I should point out I'm happily lapsed in I'm a very happy atheist now. But I do want to one thing just popped into my head. I remember having a conversation with my ex's one of her friends and we were talking I don't remember what it was whether it was about a Jewish holiday or about something else or and in this woman who went to Catholic school and you know all

the way through and she said okay but what what do normal people do and I was like what so that and I think a lot of people think that, right? It's just, you know, we're normal and they're different. Yeah. I'm at war with the word normal in general anyways. The word normal kills me now. I'm trying to, when people use it now, I just say, you mean typical.

It's a different word and it's a different. I don't know what normal is, if it is, if anything is. Because I mean I'm not normal but that you know there's a negative connotation there to begin with. Okay so we're covering a lot of ground I did. Yeah no kidding. I know. I wasn't expecting a single. I'll be very honest with you. Very honest with you which is you're speaking to a guy who has loved the Blue Jays since 1983 when he discovered the Blue Jays on 1430, the music of your life by the way. And I would listen to Tom and Jerry call Blue Jays and then I discovered this team and I'm

like I loved it. I loved that team eventually in 85 when George Bell on his knees and Tony Fernandez is coming out to give him a high five. Doyle Alexander pitched that gem. Yeah he did. Five one. That was like winning the World Series to me. What did, well, I mean, you should see my scrapbook.

I still have it. Codes from Happy Blue Jays. I was a Toronto star reader and I would cut out all these different articles. Loved the team since 83. So in my life, this is the first time I feel like sitting a season out. Like I feel like sitting, I don't have,

and I know where it's coming from, it's been years of built up feeling like Mark Shapiro and his general manager Ross Atkins, me, this is just Mike speaking for Mike, Toronto Mike, not Mike Will and they're here speaking, that this, and there's a lot of baggage and how they arrived here and in in in Rogers and the keys they got to the Car here, but I don't feel they're good. I don't feel they're competent I don't trust this team in their hands and I don't understand why they're still in these positions of power I don't understand why we haven't relieved them of their their duties

Here the Toronto Blue Jays. And I feel like inside my heart, there's almost like a protest of sorts, which is that, you know, sports is all fun and games. It's an entertainment thing. And I'm not entertained by following this team right now. I'm not entertained by watching this team. I, if someone gifts me tickets to the dome, I'm happily going to take the, uh, the, the almost nine year old, she's nine on a Saturday, by the way. So my youngest, yeah, happily gonna take the almost nine year old, she's nine on Saturday, by the way, so my youngest. I'll take the nine year old, or I'll take the almost 11 year old.

Oh heck, I'll take my, one of my oldest kid, I'll take kids to the dome for live baseball, but I'm not into the J's, so I was very excited to talk to Mike Wilner, and I do have some J's content I wanna ask you about, but I realize all the stuff I wanna ask you about is related to incompetence of Ross Atkins as general manager. Like I'm they're not like baseball

questions. Like so that's why we've gone almost an hour. You were late Mr. Wellner. So not quite an hour but without you know Jay's talk. When then I think some people find that unusual Mike Willner visited and you spent an hour and you didn't get to the Blue Jays. But it's because I'm not feeling it. I don't know what you're gathering from deep left field listeners and people who read your column in the Toronto Star, but do you feel a dip in Blue Jays fever for 2025? Absolutely. And again, that's another thing that Gregor and I addressed on the

today's new episode of Deep Left Field that's coming out in about an hour. If we talk long enough, it'll be out before people can hear this episode. I'm going to have to push back my lunch. Well, you have a heart out. I'll just do you have a heart out. I mean, I'll I can push the guy. If you tell me what minute you got to push back my lunch. Well, you do have a hard out. I'll just, do you have a hard out? I don't have, I mean, I'll, I can push the guy back. If you tell me what minute you gotta leave, I can, I'm pretty good at this at this point. I'm supposed to be having lunch at 12.30

with someone who I've been trying to get together with for a while, but I can ask, I'll ask him if we can push it back, cause I'm enjoying because I can do whatever you know but it's if you had a hard out I'm now even more disappointed you were late you know with this leave you're so close it was actually caught up in the I didn't I lost track of time worrying about who I'm gonna take in this this geek league draft is Stu Stone in this draft yes he in the, he's in the basement next week. Oh, awesome. So you'll ask him about it.

I will. And he's buddies with Atkins. So it's very difficult to have conversations with Stuart, but Atkins because he really defends everything Atkins does. Yeah. And it's a bit frustrating because you know, there's a personal bias at play. And we know what that's like. I've, there's many in FOTM I've become close to and then some I find myself defending them and I have to step back and say oh that's because you like this guy as a person and your friends now and that's what's happened to Stu and Ross Atkins. It's often very frustrating to talk to Stu about

Atkins? About Ross yeah because he definitely sees it differently. Well, I went to his movie premiere, the most recent Stu Stone movie. I went to see it at the premiere and sitting directly in front of me was Ross Atkins. So that's how close they are. He was at Stu's movie premiere. It it. Yeah, I mean, they're they're good friends. And it does make it difficult because he definitely tries to make excuses for Ross as often as again and again, he was on he was on a show, a panel show that I did in December of Deep Left Field with Sandy Jobin Bevens and Pat Smith, who are a couple of terrific second

city guys here in Toronto and have gone on to great and wonderful things but it was basically the three of us and then Stu just sort of defending right everything so long as he declares the bias we didn't declare the by you got to do that you lost your journalistic integrity with that one i wanted to protect him a little bit but it i mean he kinda outed himself he's out on this show anyways which is public and he knows that he's outed himself i think uh... ross ackins is a neighbor of his brother-in-law uh... adam rodness and it was a cousin of mine yeah

and it is the partner of the Stu Stone, it's five, seven films, I think it's five, seven films. They're partners in that. So. Yeah, cause Stu wants people to think he's five, seven. How tall do you think Stu is? Cause I'm gonna take the Ridley funeral measuring tape, we can get a definitive answer here.

He says he's five, seven. He does hit his head, he does hit his head in this basement studio. And how high is the? I don't know, I don't know. I gotta gotta find out I should find out who's gonna hit their head Well, who won't Stu is lovely and he's a he's a wonderful part of this this geek league that they're all waiting for me to Make a pick right now and okay tell them to keep waiting tell them you're on Toronto mic right now So so yeah, I can as far as being checked out. You know Gregor and I

So yeah, as far as being checked out, you know, Gregor and I, there was a question about why should I bother paying attention to the Blue Jays this year? And I think the year to check out on them was last year, coming off that horribly boring playoff season, and then the debacle in Minnesota, and then doubling down on all the mistakes and finishing last place. That was the year.

But I kind of took last year off too. Like I did. I really did take last year off. I don't feel bad for you for taking last year off. I tapped out before the trade deadline. I remember that. I never looked back. This year I think is going to be better.

I think they're gonna challenge for the playoffs. I think they're probably gonna make the playoffs. I think they're probably gonna make the playoffs and who knows that you know Bo and Vlad might go out with a bang. Okay but Mike they had 74 wins last season. Yeah but they did pull the shoot for the final two months so that's a little different right and they've they've got Bo Bichette back who they did not have at all last year. He was terrible and when he was healthy They've added a big power bat in anthony santander. They fixed the bullpen. It looks like Uh, I I do, you know, and it's not that hard to make the playoffs anymore. I I think that they'll

They'll be fine. How many wins do you think you would you guess? You'll need to make if you had to get oh need to make The play playoffs. Yeah, I don't know 84 84 Okay, and you're right. It is starting to feel a bit like the NHL where there's 16 teams out of 30 So half of the teams make the playoffs in the NHL Yeah, and 12 out of 30 make it in baseball. Yeah, so we're getting homeless there. We're almost there. Holy smokes So let me ask you that let me do this then. Cause I, people do need a bit. I was going to ask you about, so the reason- But they did make the playoffs in 23 and it still wasn't

fun. No, no, it was not fun. Yeah. And that's, is that when the, they, Pobreos was, was dealing and they, yeah. Well, makes, I used to, at that time I was still co-hosting Hebsi on sports with Hebscher. So, you know, every Friday morning I would get Hebsi's take on stuff, which was always thoroughly entertaining. But that show has been retired along with Hebsi. But let me ask you some specific questions then about the Blue Jays, the stuff I'm interested in. But just about a half an hour ago, I think I set you up by saying,

I enjoy following you on Blue Sky, because I was going to segue over to tell you that on Blue Sky I learned about your plumbing emergency. So do you wanna just give a PSA, PSA maybe a one or two sentence? I was wondering if they were one of your sponsors. I don't know if I want to bury them. I guess I did. They're not a sponsor. I don't have any plumbing sponsors. My plumber's name is Murray. He's a good guy. I mean there was a an Overflowing toilet in the basement that we couldn't fix with normal means

so and This was in the middle of this geek league auction, so I'm running an auction I got 14 people that we can only get together at this one time There you know whether they're in New York or California or here we can only get together at this one time. Whether they're in New York or California or here, all these superstars of baseball and stage and screen who carved out this one evening and we have a plumbing emergency. So I had some help

and we looked up, this was eight o'clock at night. All these 24 seven, you know, emergency plumbers, they'll come day or night, whatever, and called a dozen of them and none of them were available. One of them said, Okay, we'll send someone just call dispatch and we'll get back to you. So we stopped calling this was at like 1030 never showed up. So I don't know what people who advertise themselves as 24 seven emergency plumbers really are thinking if they're only like eight to eight emergency plumbers, right. But then someone came over yesterday morning and so I'm doing this auction till 1 30 we finish at

1 30 in the morning. I know they're gonna phone early so I have to go to sleep but keep my phone sounds on so that it wakes me up. So I there are a few dings at like 3am and 5am and all that stuff. So I don't sleep well. Didn't have a good day. Yes. Yesterday was not a good day. They call at 730 and they say he's going to be there at nine. Fine. And then I get a text at 750 that says he's on his way. So I'm not going back to sleep. Shows up at nine. That's really early for Mike Willner. It's really early, especially after you know, a high adrenaline late night the night before right and for me that's not going out and getting hammered. It's doing a auctioning off

his most famous person in the draft in this league. is Nate Cordray. Rob Cordray's brother, he's been on The Daily Show, he was on Mom, he was on... Okay. Is he Canadian? No. No. No, we ran it. We met each other 25 years ago in another baseball geek league. Okay. All right. I'm just curious. Yeah. Okay. So, oh, wait, sorry. So the plumber comes in, we need to take the toilet off and snakes it and says, no, it's still busted. And then then tells me that the tree roots have grown through the pipes and the things have shifted and they're gonna have to put a whole thing in and do this he used the words game over he said it's game over for your pipes and it's gonna be sixteen thousand dollars one six sixteen thousand dollars sixteen it's gonna be $16,000. One six, $16,000.

$16,000, one six. A roof would cost you less. And he said we could start today, it's gonna take a couple of days maybe, but we might be able to get it done today. So I call my guy who generally does all the stuff for me at the house who happens to be building a house in Windsor this week, so which is why he couldn't make it during that night.

And he said quite rightly, because you know, you're you're not thinking clear when someone's telling you, hey, this we're gonna make you spend $16,000 right now, and you need to do it now because your pipes are done and you got no water and all of that stuff, and don't use any of your upstairs water because it's flowing into the bathtub downstairs. He said, and reminded me that, everything's been frozen until the last two days he said and reminded me that, you know,

everything's been frozen until like the last two days. Things are just starting to thaw, roots aren't growing right now into your pipes. And they certainly, if everything was working yesterday and not working today, it's not because roots have grown into your pipes. Right. And so, and he looked at the plumbing back in August and everything was fine.

So I presented this information to this plumber and he said, well, we can blow out the pipe with some power flush or something and that'll only cost you 17.50. And I was like, well, I thought it was game over. Like I thought we were done here. Right. Yeah. Game's not over apparently.

Game was not over at all. And so then we went downstairs again and my ex who does kitchens and bathrooms and she's a wonderful designer, you should all use her for your designing designing at beautifully done interiors dot com she comes over with her snake and she says to the plumber you know what what did you do and he said I snaked it out thirty feet found the clog and she said thirty feet doesn't even get you the road 30 feet found the clog and she said, well 30 feet doesn't even get you to the road.

And he said, well I did 40 feet. And he said, and so she snaked it again and it was clear and fine. And at one point he said he did 80 feet. And then we flushed the toilet and it worked a little. And he said, yeah, see it's still clogged up Well, it's a little and flushed it again and it was a little better and then again and it was fine So that was the plumbing thing where I just saved and you're not outing this company

You've chosen not to have this couple. You know you added them on. Yeah, I did on blue skies guy Yeah, I did on Blue Sky. What's the difference? But yeah, so, I mean, it cost me $800 for the guy to come and snake and tell me that I needed to spend $16,000. But I feel like I saved $15,000 yesterday. Okay, well that's a good happy ending sort of there. But just be careful if you're dealing with a plumber who you don't know and haven't built up trust with like

I'm never one who says oh everybody's trying to scam you but this guy Legitimately tried to steal wow $16,000 from me yesterday Wow. Okay. I'm glad you you got a second opinion there Okay, I got a call from them afterwards when I Hadn't given him my email address to send the invoice So I got a call from their receptionist and I told her what happened and then I got a call from like the boss Trying to trying to defend the guy and he said, you know We're not that kind of company and I said yeah today you were

Yeah, your experience suggests otherwise. Yeah. All right. So Mike, what I'm going to do now is ask you some specific blue J's related questions. The lunch has been pushed to one o'clock. Okay. Good. Good. Cause I have some very important questions and I'll try to get you out of here in like 20, 25 minutes or whatever.

The place is only about 10 minutes away. So, okay. Well, you're getting me out of here. Lasagna is frozen. So it's not that. Okay. But first, do you know about recycle my electronics dot C a you ever heard of this? So if you have old cables, old electronics, old devices, maybe they're

in a drawer, they're in a closet. I have a lot of those. Yeah. You probably are like holding onto these things since the nineties and you're like, I need to get rid of these. Well, don't throw them in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill. Go to RecycleMyElectronics.ca. You put in your postal code, they'll be like, oh, for you, for example, possibly they'll be like, hey, there's a Staples in your Sherway Gardens.

You can drop this off to be properly recycled. So RecycleMyElectronics.ca. And I would just let the listenership here know about a new podcast called Building Toronto Skyline from the latest sponsor of Toronto mic'd. His name is Nick Ienies and Nick Ienies, uh, he's in condo development and he's very interested in the skyscrapers that are going up. And we had a great conversation on building Toronto skyline with the people who are building

the one young. So speaking of the, I got a Toronto star guy in the basement. Did you ever work at one young? Okay. Never been inside one young. So speaking of the, I got a Toronto star guy in the basement. Did you ever work at one young? Never been inside one young. No. And I regret that. Cause I mean, that's such a historical and iconic place, right? Uh, but no, never made it into one young. Well, going up at that footprint at one young is a skyscraper that will be the tallest skyscraper in the country. It's going to be 345 meters. The penthouse, which will be the 105th floor, will be the same height as the observation deck of the CN Tower.

Would you ever want, now you can't, I don't think you can, I don't know what they're paying you at the Star, I don't think you can afford this penthouse. It's 30 million dollars. But would you ever want to live on the 105th floor? No. That's not your cup of tea. As you know, from me being seven minutes late, I'm someone who times

things very tight often. I do not want to have to wait for an elevator even though it probably will go without 105 floors in like 40 seconds or something. Well I think I had the guy, I was on this, uh, this conversation, which is the most recent episode of building Toronto skyline, but there's two elevators, one that goes like from the first floor to like the 50 fifth floor or something. And then the other one goes from the 56 to the hundred and fifth. So, so they have two different, uh, you know, elevators, but I would still. I would hate, hate, hate that. Just as someone who is generally anxious

and who has had some claustrophobia issues in the past, to be in an elevator where for the first 56 floors there's no way out, that'd be real bad. Real bad, okay, so you're not buying one of those $30 million penthouses there? Okay. That's why. That's the reason I'm not buying a $30 million penthouse.

Miles Straw. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm sure he's lovely. I hate to, I mean, I'm sure he's lovely. Rosie DeMano wrote a column about him today. But yeah, I hate that it's about Miles Straw. It's not about Miles Straw, but yeah.

No, but that's like saying when we boo the star spangler banner. We're not booing Gosling or whatever. Okay, so Your headline and you don't write your own head. Do you write? No, you don't write the headline Okay, you write the but and the headline writers we have at the star have come up with some phenomenal stuff Like I could never do what they do. So I'm gonna read this headline Like I could never do what they do. So I'm going to read this headline. Why the staggering Roki Suzuki screw up by the Blue Jays front office is a fireable offense. Would you surmise for us?

And I find like I understand this enough of the what's happening here with the international money or whatever it's called. Can you explain to the people out there who aren't sure what's going on but there's a 11 million dollars committed to straw and what that has to do with Sasaki and why it's a fireable offense? I love how much intertwined edge there is between this this show and the episode of Deep Left Field that is about to drop this afternoon. Maybe I should just get that MP3 and just drop it in my feed. Hey why not? Well no I want the listeners. We've done cooperative crossovers before and we will continue I'm sure. But this out like the first question that I dealt with was had to do with this so it's right off

the top of the show we talk about this. Okay. So do you want well sorry, you want to know why? Okay. So you need to maybe quickly explain international bonus pool space and what that has to do with signing Suzuki and how miles straw, the trade for miles straw fits into this and why is it a screw up and how serious a screw up is it in your opinion Mr. Wilner? I mean serious enough that I said it was a fireable offense so yeah.

Spoiler alert though they weren't fired. No spoiler alert there's a good chance that Vladimir Guerrero Jr. walks at the end of the season and Mark Shapiro gets an extension but so here's what happens. Everybody knows about free agency where you go out and you just spend money and offer the best contract. Soto, for example, was a free agent. Soto, George Springer was a free agent, the Blue Jays outspent everybody. But Roki Sasaki was an international free agent and that's different.

Every team is allotted a specific amount of international bonus pool money and they may use only that to try to sign free agents. It's somewhere between 4 and 6 million dollars. But teams can acquire more international bonus pool money from other teams and use that to sweeten their offer. Because Sasaki is young, because under 25 I think, he didn't go through the posting system. I mean he's 23 but I think it's because he's I think he didn't go through the posting system. I mean, he's 23, but I think it's because he's under 25. They didn't go through the posting system like a you Darvish did or an

Otani did when they came over. So they again were like free agents. Sasaki isn't the team could spend no more than it's international bonus pool on him. Um, what the blue J's did in order to get more international bonus pool money is they made a trade with Cleveland and picked up miles straw because Cleveland, um, has done a wonderful job in the past of signing young players to multi-year contracts, something that the blue J's have not done and it's been again, a miserable failure

on their end for that. I wrote a column last week about how Alex Antopoulos did it with Atlanta and signed seven young players to great contracts, and that the Jays should've done the same thing five years ago, but Cleveland did it, and Miles Straw was one of the guys they signed, and I think they gave him like a five-year, $25 million contract after his 2021 or 2021 contract. Cleveland did it and Miles straw was one of the guys they signed and I think he gave him like a five-year 25 million dollar contract

after his 2021 or two season When he Won a gold glove stole a bunch bases hit 270 got on base no power, but they gave him the multi-year deal and But, um, they gave him the multi-year deal and then he fell off a cliff. He had a terrible year in 2023 and 2024. He didn't even make the team and they put them through waivers and no one picked up the contract because huge contract.

And he spent the whole year in AAA, except for seven games in September, um, where he was just basically uses a defensive replacement or a pinch runner. So it's thrown out money on Miles Straw and Cleveland was desperate to unload the rest of this contract. And the Blue Jays were their huckleberry, right? Right. And they traded the Jays international bonus pool. They said, we'll give you this $2 million in international bonus pool money if you take Miles Straw off our hands. And the $11.75 million, I think Cleveland

kicked in three of the 15 that was left. So there was $11.75 million for this player that Cleveland had no use for. They'd been waved through the entire major leagues and nobody claimed. Um, and Cleveland was just desperate to get out from under this money. And the blue J said, okay. But they'd said, okay. But they said, okay, before they had an agreement with Roki Sasaki. And then Sasaki that evening signed with the Dodgers. And then the Dodgers made a couple of trades for international bonus.

This is a very important detail, which is you can make, you can make, you can have the agreement with Suzuki before you make the trades that gives you the international bonus pool space. Yes. The extra space. So, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, it's going to shock you, Mike. I've never worked in the front office of a, not even the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team that plays at Christie pits. I'll shout out to Rob Butler who who manages that team, by the way. Yeah. He's a good guy.

Okay. He's wonderful. Now, so Ross Atkins, two stones, buddy there. And Mark Shapiro. Like this is not like every, every major, every major decision that's made in the baseball department goes through Mark Shapiro, period.

Right. He's got, he's got to, yeah. So Atkins can't make these decisions on his own. He brings them to Shapiro to get like stamped or whatever. Or he may even go the other way around. Okay. You know, this may be, I don't know quite how much Mark Shapiro is running the show, but I do believe he's running the show a lot. So the word incompetent comes to mind when somebody in that position with this team

Eleven more than eleven million dollars has now committed to straw. Yep, and we didn't acquire Sasaki, correct That that's a like forget Merkel's boner. Okay, that's Atkins boner Shapiro and Atkins boner I hate to paint it all on Ross Atkins because again, you know, like everyone blames all the managerial moves on John Schneider He doesn't have autonomy. Ross Atkins doesn't have autonomy. Although not, he doesn't have autonomy, but I do remember Him being thrown under the bus when Berrios was pulled after. Very much so. Yeah, so why? Another embarrassment for this team that talks so much about

So yeah, so why another embarrassment for this team that talks so much about collaboration and culture and all that stuff and everyone is Involved in every decision except this one was all John Snyder. It was it that's embarrassing How does Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins? How do they survive all of it? I know the answer is mr. Rogers Yep, that's the answer. Mr. Rogers. I mean, and, and I, I wrote it, um, last week, I think when the, the, or the week before, when I was talking about how, uh, Alex Anthopolis signed up all these young kids in Atlanta. Um, but Alex Anthopolis isn't here because he doesn't speak Ed Rogers language, Mark Shapiro does. Corporate gobbledygook.

Yeah, yeah. For sure, that's to the public, but also I think in private they speak the same language, they speak that boardroom language. Where Anthopolis was a baseball guy. Yes, still is. Yeah. Um, well, part of that, I told you earlier, part of the reason I, I, I, I'm never been comfortable with the state of affairs because I'm wearing the shirt. I was like, I, I'm taking a week, a year off,

but I still enjoy thinking about, uh, that 2015 hype train. It was amazing. It was amazing. We definitely had an episode where we talked about it. Like I couldn't that that time I couldn't consume enough Blue Jays talk. Like I was like, I, every day I had to consume as much Blue Jays talk stuff as I could. Cause I was, you know, fan means fanatic. Did you know that? Okay. I've heard the 2015 and 2016 team also exciting, but the 2015 team

particularly, and that's when you get the bat flip. And for those who can't see me right now, I'm wearing a shirt that commemorates FOTM, Joey Bats and his bat flip. And that was Alex Anthopolis' team. And you're all choked up over this as well. And we got word before the playoff started that the Cleveland regime was coming. And I'm just going to shout out an FOTM. His name is Joel Goldberg. And Joel Goldberg created Electric Circus, but he does a lot of work with Moses still

at the Zoomerplex there. And he's from Cleveland, diehard Guardians fan. And we were recording for a client, so it wasn't a Toronto Mic'd episode, but I did record and he was telling me about how Shackkins performed in Cleveland and what the fans thought of Shacken's and, and then Shacken's is recruited, if you will, I don't know, recruited to Toronto and Alex Anthopoulos is out the door and just all of this here we are in 2025. How many years have we had now? 10? This is the 10th season of Chappire and Atkins.

Yes. And if I write that, uh, zero playoff victories. Well, if you actually 2016, they largely inherited. Yes. Right. Outside of, uh, yeah, of course. Uh, three playoff appearances, oh, and six in those playoff games. And some remember there's a six one game in there.

You have the, uh, the Barrios game that there's some miraculous like some some collapses in there. Yeah, but that what that's not. I know. Pirate Ross. I mean, unless unless Schneider was instructed to remove Barrios in that game, which he very obviously was. But also it can't be forgotten that the Blue Jays did not score a run in that game. So it might not have mattered. Everything would have been different though. Obviously, if you leave Barrios in, it creates a new space-time continuum. Yes, that's right. But you could also see on the field, you know, in that fourth inning when Schneider came out to bring in Kikuchi, you could see the players like body language and everyone was like, what the hell is going on right now? But again, they didn't score any runs in that game.

And there was the, it was eight to one game. And that was, you know, the greatest collapse in, I prefer to think of it as the greatest comeback in playoff history by the Seattle Mariners. But that was awful too. And the farm system where they were critical of Anthopolis because he did have to, yeah, he did have to,

to the Tula Witsky and price and that whole end of 2015, you know, that costs you some prospects, right? So nobody who really made an impact. Well, two or three people who made an impact out of the 20 that he traded. And, you know, it took Jeff Hoffman eight years and it took Jesus to no go 10. To no go had a great year last year but that was his first and and he was one of the any every Blue J fan would have made that trade right so all

of us right because because we have these we thrive on the we didn't even make the World Series we still talk about 2015 and 2016 right so okay our what I mean I read enough to know that we do not have a strong farm system right now it's like a bottom third farm system would you agree with that yeah I've always sort of pushed back against those ratings because a lot of players who can have an impact in the major leagues aren't so the super tools II thing that that all the prospect evaluators love. Like Spencer Horwitz was probably the Blue Jays

19th best prospect last year. But when it's a consensus of everybody that it's a weak farm system of all the evaluators and when it's been that way for years and years, then there's yeah, there's a little there there for sure. So let me ask you about Vlad before we get you off to your lunch here. So what I read, I think was Ken Rosenthal from the athletic who reported this, but that the the blue jays offers like four hundred and fifty450 million and Guerrero

seeking $500 million. This is what he's reporting. That's $50 million difference over how many years is that? Maybe we pass a hat around the dome or something like that doesn't seem like a significant gap. In today's Toronto Star there's a column written by me about this and about these reports. What are your thoughts on this? My thoughts on this are, look, if the Jays offered, the report is that the Blue Jays offered $500 million that included deferrals and Vladdy wanted $500 in present day value. And I think it's difficult to imagine that these reports aren't coming out

as some damage control on the part of the J's for not signing Vladdy, and I don't think that's gonna sit well with Guerrero. But yeah, like you said, if they offered 450 and he wanted 500, Vlad had mentioned on an interview on ESPN Deportes last week that he was looking for a 14-year deal. So the difference over 14 years is half of what Miles Straw is making this year. And I hate to keep bringing up Miles Straw.

But you know, if you're setting that money on fire to bring in Miles Straw and you're not willing to push those chips in. So what's going on man? Like why, what's... They, you know, Shapiro has his valuations and he doesn't like to move off them. I don't think he's as big a fan of Vladdy as everybody else seems to be. I mean...

Do you want my speculation there? Ooh. Well, yeah. He didn't bring Vlad into this franchise. I think that's, I mean, he got here, Vlad had been here for six weeks when he got here. But he didn't bring Vlad into this? That's Anthopolis who brought Vlad into this franchise.

I would hope that someone who's been in the game for 25 years and has reached the level that he has wouldn't be that petty And I don't I don't think I think that's a little convenient I I don't I just think he doesn't value the first baseman, you know You look at the people that Mark Shapiro values. It's great defenders values. It's great defenders, uh, multi-position players. He, the Ross Atkins at the beginning of spring talked about giving Dalton Varsho a long-term contract. They love Dalton Varsho. Um, I asked Shapiro at the end of the season if he thought Vladdy was a generational

player and he wouldn't say yes, right? Um, so I just don't think they think Vlad is worth this. And I think moving to 450 was uncomfortable for them. And that was like, they're thinking, well, this is as far as we go. And I don't know that they saw the value in pushing it over the finish line when there's so much value there.

And I do think- They just spent all that money on the beer gardens. I don't know what the terminology, but the dome has been renovated and it's baseball first now and it's got all the beer spots. But you need butts in the seats and people standing at those spots

to purchase the overpriced beer. I mean, look, like I wrote in the start today, basically, if you sign Vladie you're buying a statue if they would ever put a statue of anybody besides Ted Rogers up at the dome Vladie is a statue guy he's a Hall of he whatever you think of him he's on a Hall of Fame track there there is no question about it whether you think the contracts gonna age well or not it doesn't matter you're buying goodwill.

You're buying an identity. You're buying so much, even if you only get seven great years out of him. Remember he's 25 years old for another three days, right? I know. It's, it's, it's so short-sighted and it's so just it's you know first baseman don't grow on trees anymore and even if they did they just threw almost 700 million dollars at Juan Soto who is going to be a first baseman in two or three years right Vlad he was asking for two-thirds and yeah it would have been the second

biggest contract of all time and and it's more than Otani, but so to change the market and someone you don't have to convince to play in Canada, right? Who is, you know, going to be a Mount Rushmore player. It's, it's so terribly short-sighted. And it sounds like you're not following my wild speculation that if Fladdy had been brought to the blue, I know he was 16 or something. Yeah, so when he was brought into the franchise as a 16 year old, if that was during Shapiro's watch, you think everything would play out exactly the same as it's playing out right now.

Yeah, I can't again. I can't imagine. They're that petty. Okay, we can disagree on some things Mr. Weller. I mean they haven't signed Beau Bechet yet. They brought that petty. Okay. We can disagree on some things, Mr. Weller because, uh, I mean, they haven't signed Beau Bichette yet. They brought him in. True. But Beau Bichette had a, uh, rather off season last season. Sure. But I mean, they could have given him an eight year deal after 2021.

Okay. Wow. This I'm glad I'm taking the year off. I might take a few years off here. I feel like, uh, just like I need to to leave I am going to leave X so long as Elon Musk is the owner. I gotta tap out of this this Blue J fandom Just pause it. I'm still gonna enjoy listening to the glory days on clips here

But just keep listening to Deep Left Field and keep reading the Toronto Star Well, keep don't let up on the any incompetence you witness because this is not a one off mistake or a Rare miss play misstep or whatever. We're all human here, but this is a trend Yeah, this this is a trend and the team the 74 win. Yeah, sure. They trade deadline they got rid of all a lot of parts, so you know that but 74 wins last season and those and those, I'm all riled up here, Sasaki and what's going on with Vlad and what's gonna happen with Beau Bichette. And I mean you know you haven't mentioned the whole Andre C. Menez thing and while Andre C. Menez is an elite defender and

wonderful you would have thought they learned their lesson last year and the year before about going all defense and how how horrible that's been. And Atkins talks up that he's so enthusiastic about that. He tripled down on on a mistake. It's it's not I mean they may have salvaged it by signing Anthony Santander but but we'll see we'll see if Andre Ciment has hits in 2025 like he did in 2023 and four. That's another fireable offense because they still owe the guy like $100 million. And you're confident sitting with me right now that this 2025 Blue J team as constructed

can compete for a playoff spot. Yeah, I think it's gonna be more fun. I think it's gonna be a lot more fun than the last couple of years. I do. I mean the division is literally wide open. I absolutely believe they're gonna compete for a playoff spot and I hope they'll be fun to watch because I gotta watch them 162 times. Yeah you get paid to watch them. No one's paying me to watch these Blue Jays. I might have to stick to the

Toronto Made Beliefs at Christie Pitts. But man, I love my chats with you, Mike Wilner. We talked about, we covered a lot of ground here. Anything here, because this is a long build up here before I do the extra. Is there other than we should all subscribe to Deep Left Field and there's a new episode dropping today? Was there anything you like? And subscribe to the Toronto Stars. One dollar for six months. Come on, subscribe to the Star. You know, Ed Kenan's in this basement every quarter and we talk about everything going on in the world.

And I saw that this is March 13th, 2025, which means five years ago today, my last basement guest for a long time, because no one was allowed in. It was like Zooms and then I moved it to the backyard and eventually I got you in the backyard. But my last basement guest five years ago today was David Ryder from the Toronto Star. Absolutely, look at that Toronto Star. And five years ago today, I was on an airplane getting the hell out of spring training. Spent my 50th birthday in quarantine.

That was a blast. My goodness, well, happy birthday tomorrow. Thank you. Don't leave without the lasagna. Never. And that, you know, it's Stu Stone who told me I should go hard on the end that. And I said, oh, Stu's kind of a showman, right? He was like a wrestling manager. This guy knows his shtick and said, I'm going to do that. And I've been doing it ever since.

And that brings us to the end of our 1,650th show. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Of course, I'm active on Blue Sky. Much love and follow Mike Wilner on Blue Sky as well. It's just a Wilner-ness, right? Yep. Wilner-ness. Thanks.

And much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. We're going to see Wilner there on June 26th from 6 to 9 PM. You guys should come out too. 20 bucks a selfie. Is that a good price if people come to TMLX18? That's right. We'll negotiate. Okay. Palma Pasta, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto Skyline, and Ridley Funeral Home fresh episode in the Life's Undertaking feed from yesterday. Listen to Brad. See you all Monday when it's an episode of Toast with Rob Pruss and Bob Willett. What are we kicking out?

I'm trying to remember. Oh, we're kicking out problematic jams. This will be interesting. Basically, well, the title speaks for itself. Problematic jams. See you all then. So So You