Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Muffy Mouse: Toronto Mike'd #360

Episode Date: July 27, 2018

Mike chats with voice actress and puppeteer Nina Keogh about her work at CBC and TVO, especially her performance as Muffy Mouse on Today's Special.

Welcome to episode 360 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. Did you know, Nina, that 99.99% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario? GLB. Rude for you, Ontario. And propertyinthesix.com. Toronto real estate done right. And Paytm, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot.

Download the app today from paytm.ca. And our newest sponsor, Census Design and Build, providing architectural design, interior design, and turnkey construction services across the GTA. I'm Mike from torontomike.com, and joining me this week is voice actress and puppeteer Nina Keough. Welcome, Nina. Thank you.

I'm not going to ask you to do this entire interview in rhyme. I considered having you do it in rhyme, but I thought that's disrespectful to Nina. And it's going to be hard, right? Well, sometimes I fall into it. Have you ever received that request, though? People are talking to you like, can you rhyme? Yes, I do get that. I get people asking me, can you do Muffy's voice?

Well, if I do Muffy's voice, then I always feel I have to do it in rhyme. Stay in character. Of course, you've got to be true. So thank you so much. Of course, you've done many great things. We're going to hear some awesome clips. But you are the voice of Muffy Mouse. Like, did she have a last name? Muffy Mouse?

How convenient. Are all mice, I have a question for you. Are all mice, do they all have the same last name? Yes, because her cousin Mort was also named Mort Mouse. Oh, well, that's, they're related, of course. They are related. So Muffy from, of course, today's special. Yes. And people of a certain age,

this is like one of the pillars of their childhood, today's special. Like when people find out you're the voice of Muffy, do you watch like, I don't know, like a 40-year-old just light up like a Christmas tree? I watch a 40-year-old become a six-year-old or a seven-year-old. Yeah, absolutely.

They freak. Yeah, I bet. I bet. So there's a whole bunch of today's special talk and clips coming soon. But your neighborhood, I find Toronto is like a city of neighborhoods. It's just a bunch of neighborhoods collectively. By the way, we should point out there's somebody else in the room. Just in case people are wondering who's in the room.

Who else is in the room with us? It's Teodora Luisa, who is my dog. We call her Teddy. And what kind of dog is Teddy? She's Havanese from Havana, Cuba. So you got these and a bunch of cigars. Is that what you got from Cuba?

Well, this is, I think I'm trying to remember. Okay, Splash and Boots are children's entertainers and Boots brought her dog. So it seems like only people who voice like children's programming want to bring their dogs. Oh no. So I don't think Fred Penner brought his dog.

I'm trying to remember. So you're from, you live in the Danforth area of the city? I do, Danforth and Bravue, yes. How is the Danny doing? How are they doing? Well, there's sort of a, it's a sad kind of place right now. There's no doubt about it. And today, as we are broadcasting or recording this, all the owners of the businesses are going to come out and stand on the Danforth and there will be a couple of minutes of silence. And it's very moving.

I was there the other night. I went to a vigil and visited the sites where these terrible things happen and it was pretty overwhelming. I hope the city just comes out to the Danforth and supports it like never before. When is the Taste of the Danforth? That's coming up,

right? Soon. I think it is soon. I'm not sure, quite frankly. You don't represent the, uh, BIA,

the Danforth. No, not yet. Not yet. But, uh, so welcome from the, from the Danforth.

I mean, I got a lot of friends who live in that neighborhood. Uh, Troy from Great Lakes, uh, my buddy, uh, Bob,

Bingo Bob. A lot of my friends live in the Danforth area I mean, it's so sad what happened but I don't think that kind of thing it's not the kind of thing that picks on a certain neighborhood it's sort of a part of a big city I want to say, it's sort of like part of the fabric of a big city

It seemed to be random so, you know, we were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could have been any neighborhood in Toronto. Yes, I think so. Can I ask who Howard the Turtle

was in Razzle Dazzle? What is Razzle Dazzle? Well, Razzle Dazzle was a daily series on CBC back in the 60s for about six years. And it started out live. And it had Michelle Finney and Alan Hamill and Howard the Turtle, who was played by my dad. Crazy.

John Keogh. John Keogh. So I got this fun fact about you, about your dad being Howard the Turtle and Razzle Dazzle. And I was like, I got to find out what Razzle Dazzle is. And Teddy, I got a third microphone. Let Teddy know. I could open this up and I don't mind Teddy chiming in whenever Teddy needs to chime in.

So this was always like in your bloodlines, right? Yeah, I'm third generation, actually. So my grandparents, my dad's parents parents were puppeteers and puppet builders. And my grandfather was actually the very first member of the Puppeteers of America back in the 30s. And they built very large marionettes and they did big shows at Massey Hall on stage. And it might be with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra. And so, yeah, it's definitely in my blood. I could not escape it. Do you have any children? I have one son, yes. That's all it takes, one.

Is he a puppeteer? I was hoping he would be. He definitely has the skills. He has the humor, the voice, the voices. And he's a very good puppeteer, but it was not something he wanted to pursue. He did a commercial when he was little, where I operated his little hand coming out of a box of Cracker Jack or something. So that was it. And that was it. He had his taste of it. And he said, this is not for me. No, and I didn't want to do it either. When I was young, I didn't want to have anything to do with whatever my parents were doing.

Did they gently guide you in this direction or you just saw it and at some point you realized you'd like to try to make a living at this? Well, from the moment I was born, I was surrounded by puppets because they were display artists for Eaton's and that sort of thing. And then they got into the more animated stuff and into the puppets. And when I was, they were doing a show called The Friendly Giant. Oh my God. And so when I was 11, they needed another puppeteer. They were doing a special. My dad would write a special every once in a while, a half hour special for Friendly. And so I came in and I was the extra puppeteer. And then about when I was 11 and about seven years later, I became a permanent puppeteer on Friendly until it ended. Let me just say that that was my jam. So I was a little bit,

I was a little bit too old for today's special. How old are you? 44. Okay. Like I remember it because I watched a lot of TV Ontario and I definitely remember it and I remember it fondly, but I felt, but the Friendly Giant, that was my jam. Yeah. And Mr. Dress Up. Mr. Dress Up for sure. So without further ado, since we've now said the magic words, Friendly Giant and Mr. Dress-Up. Mr. Dress-Up for sure. So without further ado, since we've now said the magic words, Friendly Giant and Mr. Dress-Up, I want to give you some gifts for coming all this way from the Danforth. Okay. Great Lakes Brewery, local craft brewery.

Everybody who listens to the show knows that that's where we all collected last Thursday. We're going to do that again on September 12th. They've been sponsors for years now. They want you to have the six-pack in front of you. Oh. So you're here on this unnamed street in southern Etobicoke. Yeah, nice. And a few blocks away, you have a friend, right?

Yes. And you're going there for dinner. Yes. Oh, this is so perfect. I didn't want to ruin the surprise. Oh, that's very nice. I thought we were just going to sit here and drink this now

well you're welcome to I'll just get more I think Muffy Hammered might be Muffy Hammered rhyming that's when she stops rhyming just so you know I think people would pay to hear that to be honest which is patreon.com slash Toronto Mike

but that six pack is yours courtesy of Great Lakes Beer but you're going to need, if any of it makes it home to the Danforth, it might all get spent in Southern Etobicoke. But there's a pint glass in front of you. Oh, yes. That is courtesy of Brian Gerstein, who is a real estate broker at PSR Brokerage.

And his website is propertyinthesix.com. That is your official propertyinthesix.com pint glass. Thank you. And beer tastes better in a pint glass. Absolutely, it does. Yes. And go ahead, sorry. That's very nice.

And Brian has a question for you. And the reason I wanted to jump into this is because you mentioned The Friendly Giant, which I loved, and Mr. Dress Up. The Tickle Trunk, I mean, Casey and finnegan those two shows i think uh they were such you know and there's another one polka dot door which we'll get to but you might know a thing or two about that program as well so uh let's hear from brian Hi, Nina. Brian Gerstein here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Mic'd. For any of your real estate needs, be it buying and or selling or investing,

give me a call at 416-873-0292 to discuss. Nina. I grew up with both the friendly giant and Mr. Dress up. So it is indeed a thrill for me to ask you a question about those shows. Their direction had a gentle pace kids. Attention spans back then were able to thrive in that environment. If these shows were introduced today, how do you think kids would respond? Oh, wow. Yeah, that's, that's a great question. It is a great question. introduced today, how do you think kids would respond?

Oh, wow. Yeah. That's a great question. It is a great question. Because at some point, children, their attention spans became two nanoseconds. I think that's now the current. So could a show like, and those are my shows, Friendly Giant, and I'm repeating Brian's question, except to say that they were, they're not like today's shows, which are frenetic. Yes, yeah.

And that's the way I feel. A few years ago, I was interviewed on TVO, Steve Paikin's show, and I was asked that question, do you think these shows would fly now in light of the fact that everything is such, you know, nanosecond kind of thing. And I said, I really felt that probably they would now, especially a 15 minute show like Friendly was actually 13 minutes and 28 seconds or something. And I think that children love the pace of that it's it slows everything down. And unless kids are just already addicted to an iPad,

which you see a lot of, I think they would love to just sit in front of the TV and watch Bob Homme tell one of his lovely stories or go to the music room, which is where I was involved with the little cats and raccoons that played musical instruments. And children were introduced to different kinds of music, like jazz and classical piano. Yeah, there's a lot of clarinet, I think, and flute stuff going on in the Valley Giant. There were vibes. I worked with every top musician in the country

because they would come into the studio and pre-record the music. And my favorite days were the jazz days and Peter Appleyard and Haygood Hardy and a lot of Mo Kaufman. I mean, just a lot of big names would come in. Mo Kaufman did Curried Soul, which is the theme song for As It Happens on CBC Radio. Do you know when I...

That opening theme, the Toronto Mike theme, which is an original composition by Ill Vibe, a local rapper producer, but when I met him and said, hey, I'm going to start a podcast and I want you to do my theme song, I told him I want it to be like Curried Soul, but a little more modern. That was how I described it. I wanted the As It Happens

theme song. I like your theme. I hadn't heard it before. See, it's as good as As It Happens. It's very nice. You haven't heard it before? No, I haven't. You have 359 episodes to catch up on. I listened to a couple of your interviews, but I don't think I heard the intro music. Well, I'll forgive you.

So you worked on The Friendly Giant, which is amazing. I loved it when he put out the chairs and I'd be at the TV waiting for him to put out a chair for me. And I think that's very comforting. I mean, when I meet people and they find out that I the chairs and I kept maybe at the TV waiting for him to put out a chair for me like yeah and and I think that's very comforting I mean when I meet people and they they find out that I that I did the show it's that same thing people just kind of calm down and go into this childlike state and

talk about how the chairs were really important the way he he was included everybody and he was so gentle and and so on and uh the same with uh with ernie coombs who played mr dress and bob and ernie were was ernie american or canadian they were both american and originally and then they both uh got their citizenship so tell me tell me everything you can about uh working with ernie coombs on Mr. Dress Up. And tell us what you did on that show. Well, I knew Ernie already because he was always doing his show in Studio 1 and we were in Studio 2 doing Friendly. So we all knew each other.

And Judith, who was working Casey and Finnegan, she was retiring. And so the puppets were not going to be on the show anymore because nobody else was going to operate them. And so they wanted to have more characters. So they asked me to build a character who would come in and overlap with Casey and Finnegan. And so that's what we did.

And then Casey and Finnegan gradually left, and I became sort of the constant. And then they introduced more characters, more puppet characters as well. So there were quite a few. There were about four or five different characters ultimately. And then you get guys like Brian's age. He's a little older than me, and I bet you he's like, you mean at some point Casey and Finnegan leave the show?

Right, I know. I know. I said, I didn't kill them, honestly. I didn't kill them. I can't imagine. Casey and Finnegan. Holy smokes. Yeah.

So they live out on the west coast of Canada. And they're enjoying that, apparently. Oh, is that where they went? Yes. What show was I watching? Oh, yeah. Mike. So I have two sets of kids.

I mean, the four kids. But there's like teenagers and there's little, little ones. So I'm kind of familiar with all this stuff. I remember my oldest son, who's 16 now, he was the biggest fan of Blue's Clues. Oh, yes. Blue's Clues. And the original guy in Blue's Clues, I guess he wanted to leave the program and do something else. So I remember the whole story arc was that he was going to college.

That was it. Like Steve, I think story arc was that he was going to college. That was it. Like Steve, I think his name was. Steve is going to college. And I still remember watching Elizabeth, oh, Steve's cousin's going to come now. And Steve's going to go, like explaining to the kids, why has a guy changed? This is what we do, you know, because we have to wean our audience and there's a transition. Right. So Casey and Finnegan went to the West Coast. Yeah. Is that what they did? went to the West Coast. Yes. Is that what they did? I think the explanation was they'd gone off to school,

so now they can't hang out with Mr. D, you know, or that's another show, Mr. Dress-Up. That's right. There's only one Mr. D to us. Yes, absolutely. And I think the show that takes over for Mr. Dress-Up, I think, is Fred Penner's Place. And I just remember Fred telling me that. I think that was the next one in the CBC...

Well, I remember. I mean, I certainly knew Fred, and I saw him not that long ago. And, yeah, so I can't remember when his show was on. Was it... Mid to late 80s, I think. Mid to late 80s. Okay, well,

was it on at the same time as us? I think maybe it was. I don't think he shaved since then either. Yes. Did he have the pork pie hat on when you saw him? Is that stapled to his head? No, I don't think he had that on when I saw him last year. Oh, that's funny. Yeah.

Speaking of West Coast, Raffy, Raffy's gone all political. I don't know. And that's just great and all, but if you follow him on Twitter, he's awfully political. I haven't followed him, but I did hear something to that effect. The word's got out.

Let me please talk about some of my other friends here. Census Design and Build. So if your home in the Danforth needs some work or some additions and some renovations, if you're not going to sell it, so here's the deal, Nina. If you're going to sell that lovely home

in the Danforth, you contact Brian, okay? He gave you the pint glass. But if you're going to fix it up, you contact Census Design and Build. They provide architectural design, interior design, and turnkey construction services

across the GTA. To learn more about the possibilities for your home, call them at 416-931-1422 and tell them Mike sent you, or visit their website at censusdesignbuild.ca today and schedule your zoning and cost project feasibility study. That's what you do. You fix it up. So if you're not going to sell, sell with Brian, fix it up with Census Design and Build. And just before we dive in, I can't wait. Like, I can't wait to play these clips. This is like the most fun out of the 360 episodes. It doesn't get any more fun than this one i'd say and nina if i accidentally call you muffy during this episode please do not be upset with me no worries pay tm pay tm canada is the only one in canada that gives you rewards for your bill

payments plus you choose how you want to pay. Credit card, bank, or cash. And then you watch your points grow. So for every dollar you spend with Paytm, you get a Paytm point. So then you can go to their rewards section and they've got hundreds of deals from leading brands for you to redeem your points to receive instant cash back.

Here's how you get $10 right now. Download the Paytm Canada app for free on your smartphone. And then when you make your first bill payment, use the promo code Toronto Mike. That's all one word. And then you get $10 in Paytm cash you can use towards another bill payment or a reward purchase. That's $10 free dollars just sitting there. Pick it up. Paytm Canada. Nina, do you mind if I take you back to the wonderful decade that was the 1970s? Oh, my goodness.

Do you remember the 70s? Yes, I do. Nina, if you remember the 70s, you weren't there. You weren't there. I thought that was about the 60s. I had to change it. I had to change it. I had to change it. You know, when I'm watching like TVs and movies, I always prefer that it takes place in the 70s.

Like I like how it looks on film. Even when it's filmed now and they're just faking it. They do such a good job in post now. Like they can really like make it 1970s. Like I like it when my movies and films take place in the 70s. I'm just throwing that out there. And I barely, I do remember the 70s, but only like the tip of the end of the 70s. Yeah, yeah, it was very cool.

So the early days of TV Ontario. Let me play a song for everybody. And let's dive right in. The polka dot door, the polka dot door. Let's peep through the polka dot door. Songs and stories and so much more through the polka dot door this is the time we always say get ready get set for imagination day we'll tell some tales we'll pretend and play so come in the polka dot way nina feel free to sing along. Are you kidding me?

In fact, this one flies in nice. Just a little bit more. This is the episode I want to talk about the very early days. Hi. We're glad you came through the polka dot door today. Because today is Imagination Day. And this is the day when we make up stories and do all kinds of special different things. Well, for instance, today,

I'm going to pretend that I'm the best tapper in the whole world. That's a little taste of a show I watched daily on TV Ontario. And please tell us all, what was your role on Polka Dot Door? Well, I was the very first host. So we're talking, I think it was 71. It was. 70 or 71.

70, yeah. And I had already done some series at TVO as a puppeteer. So like read along and read all about it. Oh, that was before 1970? No. Because Polka Dot Door, before those, I believe. But who am I to tell you, Nina? No, no, you're right.

You're right. I was trying to remember how I got to TVO, but now I remember. I was hosting a series for CBC at the time, and then I was asked to audition for this new show that was coming up based on a British show. And so I went in. They said, do you play a musical instrument? I said, I play the recorder.

So I played the recorder. And anyway, so I got it. recorder and uh and anyway so i got it and my the first year i was with gordon thompson who went on to be an actor on dynasty and and so he was the first male host yes is that the voice i just heard yes yes okay yeah and in those days um the one host would say well'm going to go away for a while and do something. And then would don the, the poker ruse costume and come back. And the other host would say, oh, oh, I'm so sorry that my co-host isn't here to see you. So there never were the two hosts there at the same time. Yeah. And as, and as of course, uh, cause I was watching in not,

I wasn't there in 70. Uh, it was not, I didn't live yet. And as, and as of course, uh, cause I was watching in not, I wasn't there in 70. Uh, it was not, I didn't live yet. That was, this was not my fault. Okay. I wasn't born yet. It's okay then. But late seventies, I'm watching polka dot door, like I said, every day. And yes, uh, at some point you gain the, uh, wisdom, the intelligence, and you realize the guy and the polka, they're never together at the same time. Did kids figure that out time did you hear that out i figured it out i figured it out at some point but i'm like i was an extremely bright child you know not your average i was a gifted child i figured it out and i always thought that was really like smart like uh because because some kids will just think oh he missed him again and he always had that line oh i missed him

again yeah but did people really think did kids really think that the other host was inside that costume? I thought, yes, I thought. So am I the only one who thought that? You are very smart. I thought the male host went away and went in the costume and came out as Pokeroo and that they were just pretending.

It was only the male host later on I heard, but certainly in the first, I did the first two seasons. Right. And I always got to, oh, what a pleasure that was, to wear the Pokeroo costume. So you were actually in the Pokeroo costume.

Yes, and I'd come back and I'd go, Pokeroo, Pokeroo. You know, that was it, right? Whew. That's all it said. There was gender equality at the beginning before it became so misogynist, right? Whew. That's all it said. There was gender equality at the beginning before it became so misogynist, polka dot door. So I have so many things I could do an hour with you

and polka dot door. I know we don't have the kind of time you have drinking to do. But the original polka root costume you would go into, that wasn't the same one that I would remember from the late 70s, early 80s. It was a different costume, right? I would imagine they would have had a couple or maybe three

that would be built over the years. Well, I heard, okay, so we have a mutual friend. Let's give him a shout out. Ed Conroy. Yes, hi, Ed. Mr. Retro Ontario, who was great help when I was sourcing out clips for this show. Ed's the best. He tells me the first, the early Polka Roo costume,

his words, really scary, he says. Oh, really? I'm guessing it was radically different from that cute one I remember. I don't remember it as being different, though. Ed, we need photo evidence of this. Maybe when you were little, Ed,

it was scary, but... I'm trying to do Ed's age. I don't even, Ed I don't think was around in the early 70s, but if Ed, if you could provide me with some images, I can see for myself.

Yeah, I don't remember it as being different. Isn't that funny? Yeah. And how long were you on Polka Dot Door for? I did the first two seasons, and I was signed up for the third. And they decided that they wanted to use multiple hosts. And so they went on to hire many different people over the years.

And a lot of those people continue to work and, you know, do really well in the business. Well, one of them I saw on ER. Yes. Right? Please remind me. What is her name? Is that Tanya? No, actually.

I think Tanya went to General Hospital, right? Oh. God, I wish I could Google it quickly. But the actress in the early years, I watched ER. And she, yes, what was her name? Now, Nina's trying to come up with it. This is a... I know who it is because she's a cousin of a friend of mine.

But you're... Here, you keep talking. And I'll do a quick Google search. And of course, Dennis, who I'm trying to remember last names now. Of course, I can't because I didn't really do any homework before I came here. That's okay. Neither did I, apparently. And my friend Rex Hagen was also one of the hosts.

He's my best friend. Oh, yeah, okay. Oh, I didn't know. I'm still trying to come up with this name. That's terrible, but terrible. But please, remind me, what was the name of the gentleman that you hosted with those first years?

You said he went on to have a soap opera career? Yes, that was Gordon Thompson. And he ended up going out to LA and he was on a show called Dynasty. Jeannie Boulay is the name of the character, I believe. So I'm now going to click in and find out who she was. Gloria Rubin. That's who it is.

Gloria Rubin. Yes. Come on, Mike. You should have pulled that name out. Yeah. Gloria Rubin. Yes. Come on, Mike. You should have pulled that name out. Yeah. Gloria Rubin definitely went on to. And yeah, so many of them are, you know, wonderful, talented people for sure. It's again, I mentioned those first two shows.

I mentioned Friendly Giant and I mentioned, of course, Mr. Dress Up. But Polka Dot Doors right there, there too that might be the big three if i had to do my mount rushmore of uh then i'd have to put sesame street as the fourth one but those four i guess are my on my mount rushmore i did some sesame park as well oh yeah but uh we're going in chronological order by decade this is uh so we're gonna get to that for sure for sure here's a show i want to ask you about it's a a CBC show and it had Gilda Radner and Dan Aykroyd and John Candy.

And I'm going to play, this clip was, let me see if I load it up. I don't even think there's words, but let's play the theme. Ed shared this with me. It's really a visual thing. Because, you know, Dan Aykroyd's in this thing.

So this is the theme for a show a CBC kids show called Coming Up Rosie oh well I thought you were going to say the original name of it oh okay it's a spin off of a show called Dr. Zonk and the Zonkins that's right and I created the

Zonkins and yes Gilda was there and Danny and John Candy. Oh, it was an incredible, it was an incredible time to work with those people. And I could certainly tell you

stuff about them. And you will right now. I need to know. Dan Aykroyd once held the door open for me at a restaurant on Avenue Road. I can't remember the name of the restaurant anymore, but he opened the door for me once, and I was like, Dan Aykroyd just opened the door for me.

That might brush with fame right there. Yeah, they're human. Well, until now. Until Muffy Mouse came over. That was my biggest thing. So coming up, Rosie, those are big names. I mean, Ackroyd, Candy, Radner. It's amazing that all these people, and you created Zunkins,

and I don't think people talk enough about Dr. Zonk and the Zunkins, but coming up, Rosie. No, I wonder why. We got to bring it back. I think we got to bring it back. Okay, great. Here's another,

you mentioned the show already, but I think we're in chronologic order, but here great. Here's another. You mentioned the show already, but I think we're in chronologic order. But here's another theme song of a show on TVO I used to watch. I love that. I love that theme. And who composed that theme? Do you know? I'm putting you on the spot there. That's a tough one.

Gee, I might be wrong if I say Eric do you know? I'm putting you on the spot there. That's a tough one, eh? Gee, I might be wrong if I say Eric Robertson, but I'm not sure. And that show, of course, was called? Read Along. Read Along. And tell me about what you can about working on that show. Well, I, there was,

I was one of the very few puppet builders at the time. This was in the 70s. And a colleague of mine named Noreen Young, who lived in Ottawa, she was also somebody else who built and she was building for things she was doing in Ottawa. And then they got her down to build puppets for read along. long. And so I knew her and because our puppeteering community was very, very tiny, especially for television. And puppeteering for television is very different than puppeteering for stage. And so I was I came in on that. And, and I did that, that show. And then there were a couple of other shows as well that were puppet oriented um so and and because we were a small community i just worked solidly i would go from one series to another and with the polka dot door i was overlapping that with with my show drop in so um anyway yeah it so anyway it was a much smaller community then

did Bob Dermer work on Read Along? Yes is that where you met Bob? that is where I met Bob and I just spent the last three days at a cottage with him and some other friends we have to tell because people might not know the name Bob Dermer

what voice did he do that people listening to this program might know very well? Okay, so they would know him. TXL! And he was played Sam Crenshaw on today's special. Sam Crenshaw

on today's special. The Night Watchman? The Night Watchman. Yeah, the Night Watchman. Exactly. By the way, in the opening credits to today's special, Sam Crenshaw is playing solitaire on some kind of a computer. Yes, that's TXL. Grounds for Dismissal. That's the TXL, right?

That's Grounds for Dismissal. On company time, he's playing solitaire. Somebody should report that to HR. Nowadays, security guards are just looking at their iPhones. Oh, yeah, now they're playing Candy Crush or something like that. Candy Crush, yeah. So you spent the last three days. This is breaking news.

You spent the last three days at... So Sam Crenshaw, if I may call Bob that, he has a cottage and you were there for three days? We were at a friend's cottage and I haven't seen him for a long time. He's the father of a two-and-a-half-year-old kid. Sam Crenshaw has a two-and-a-half-year-old? Yes. I have a two-and-a-half-year-old kid. Sam Crenshaw has a two-and-a-half-year-old. Yes.

I have a two-and-a-half-year-old, but Sam Crenshaw is twice my age. Is that correct? Almost. Good for you. He's 70, yeah. That's good for Bob. Yeah. Keeps you young.

Keeps you young. He's a very interesting guy, for sure. Ed Conroy wants me to ask you about how it was. And this is a name I have to apologize. I'm not familiar with the name, but he tells me this person is a genius. And I trust Ed with these things. He knows his geniuses.

He once told me I was a genius. So I trust him. Ken Sobel. Yes. Ken Sobel was at TVO. I think that's where I met him. And I think he was a writer. Is he a genius?

Is Ed correct? Or is he overrating? I'm sure Ken. Ken's a writer. Is he a genius? Is Ed correct, or is he overrating? I'm sure Ken was a genius. There's a commercial I'm going to play now. Let's play the commercial, and then we'll talk about this. Hello, Ontario, and all the ships at sea, let's go to air. And cash for life gives a chance indeed to be a millionaire. Well, boys, pretty good show so far.

And exciting. One of these tickets is worth at least a million bucks, because I'm going to win $50,000 a year for life. You and who, Sawishu? Well, fellas, his $2 ticket could win him a million, easily as you and me. Hey, turn it up. It looks like draw time. Get your tickets ready. You could win a million. Hey, turn it up. It looks like draw time. Get your tickets ready.

You could win a million. Oh, my goodness. Okay, so that last voice is Gord Martineau. Yeah, the one before that was Bob Dermer. And the one before that, yes, I did sound like Sam Crenshaw. Yeah. But this is a commercial for Cash for Life Lottery.

Yes. And you're in that ad? You're a puppeteer? I built the puppet. You built the puppet. I built the puppet, yeah. Did you i built the puppeteer you built the puppet i built the puppet yeah did you also do the puppeteering oh yes okay so but your voice is not in that i didn't hear if it was a sausage fest that ad there's no that was no no and the the kind of puppets that i very often build are two-person puppets so one person would do the head uh and the lip sync and

do the left arm of the puppet and then the second puppeteer would come in and do the right arm because you're talking about a life-size puppet character so i i built a lot of those for commercials yeah okay cool cash for life and i watched that commercial uh because i ripped it to audio but i watched it and uh oh yeah we need more i realized like so of course we're all familiar with the Henson puppets, okay? Yeah. Jim Henson, a bunch of Muppets and Sesame Street and Fraggle Rock and this and that. But we need more puppets going on. We need more puppets, right? It seems like puppets had its big day and now there's less puppets out there.

Is animation stealing the... Well, I can tell you that... Please tell me. Animation at one point did become very popular in the commercial business because it meant, you know, you can control it, you can control where the characters go, and you don't have to pay residuals to performers except the voice person. And so a lot of puppet work really, it just, you know, the whole thing just kind of dissipated because of the animation thing. But I find that I'm seeing puppets here and there. I can tell you at one

point, Jeff Hislop from today's special and I, after our show was done, we wanted to do a series that was more adult. And we would use a combination of puppets and people. We went to Eugene Levy, who I knew, and thinking he would be perfect. He said he could not at that time, he couldn't wrap his head around puppets and people interacting and it being a viable kind of a thing for an audience. And sitting on his shelf, by the way,

kind of a thing for an audience. And sitting on his shelf, by the way, was what was the movie he wrote about The Mermaid? Oh, Splash? Splash. And we had already seen Splash. There was Splash 2, the scripts, right on the shelf next to my head. Which didn't have Tom Hanks in it, as I remember.

So as wonderful as Eugene is, I mean, he just, at that time, he just couldn't see it. And I understand, you know. But then, you know, a lot of that stuff happened. And I think there is something on now with puppets. And remember Alf? Of course. Gordon Shumway. I thought that worked.

You know. I thought it did too. But Alf had to be an alien, right? From Melmac, I believe. Yes, from Melmac. He ate cats, so the dog is safe. That's right, from Melmac. And Jeff and I wanted to have various characters.

Some were human and some were puppets, but you couldn't tell the difference because they were all kind of strange-looking characters. Which is like, that's the Muppet Show, right? The Muppet Show was humans and Muppets coexisting. It was Sesame Street. And that was, you know, that was family oriented with the humor being really quite adult.

And, you know, the kids, if the kids got it, they got it. But very often they didn't. The parents did. And that's why it was such a successful show, I think, because it appealed to the whole family. But it sounds like you're seeing, you said you're seeing puppets here and there now. So maybe it's making,

maybe puppets are making a little comeback here, a little bit maybe, in the heels of maybe, I don't know, Muppet Show, Muppet Movie reboots and things. I don't know. I'm wondering, you know. And anyway. Okay.

We'll see. Here's a, I dug this up. So Ed Conrad gets no credit for this. But this was, okay. So of course, I dug this up, so Ed Conrad gets no credit for this, but this was, okay, so of course, TV Ontario would have these, like, sponsor, pledge drives, I guess, is that what you call them? Pledge drives? Yes.

Can I call them that? Here. Absolutely. Here's a short clip. Okay. Dr. Poisson. Hello, I'm Nina Keogh, and I'm the voice and the puppeteer behind Muffy the Mouse on today's special, and I'm also the creator of Norbert, Zazie, and Leon

on the Magic Library, which is one of our daytime shows. Welcome to TVO's public membership campaign. That's what they're called. Public membership campaign. Oh, it's so weird to hear that. You sound the same. So now we're leaving the 70s,

if you don't mind. Let's come to the 1980s. So put on your, what did you wear the bright neon colored socks, everything was neon you remember this period, everything was like bright neon orange and neon green, we really liked our neon there in the flash dance stuff going on, okay so we're in the 80s

and this is the decade that brings us today's special now where I'm going to play, let's start with the theme and then we'll you know we have a million questions on today's special. Now, I'm going to play, let's start with the theme and then we'll, you know, we have a million questions on today's special. I hope you're okay with that. Imagine you told me before I started recording,

you said, I'm happy to talk about anything except today's special. I would have had to kick you and the dog out of here and say, you're not getting the beer or the pint glass. Nina, get out of here. But here's the theme that people know and love. Well, it looks like everything's all packed and ready to go. I'll be on my way soon.

Oh, I wonder how my two little elves are doing. It's a Christmas special, apparently. Every Christmas, I let them go and see whoever they want. I hope they're not getting into any mischief. And I hope they're having a very merry Christmas. Today's special, it's forever new one. Today's special, come join in the fun. With magic everywhere, a world for us to share.

And friendly faces hoping that you will want to meet us there. For today's special, it's about to appear. It's about to appear. Today's special. Shout it loud and clear. Today's special Shout it loud and clear Today's special Today's special is Christmas, part two. Oh, that's what this mouse likes to see.

Presents right beside the trees. Oh, I can hardly wait till tomorrow. Yeah, neither can I. Muffy had a very cute laugh. Okay, that was great. I'm feeling a little teary. Don't do it. There's more to come.

Are you kidding me? My goal is to make you blubber. I want you blubbering by the end of this episode. So where do I begin? How about this? Does today's special

have an origin story? Like, where did the idea for this show come from? How did you get involved? Tell me everything oh my gosh uh i'm well um clive clive vanderberg was our producer director and i imagine he was involved in the creating of the you know the concept. And I just remember, because I was known to TVO, and they asked me to come in and just show them what Muffy might look like.

They called her Murphy, actually. That was her name originally, and then they changed it. Even when we did the pilot, and her name was Murphy. I had to go back in, or other people had to go back in and redo the name. Interesting. Originally, the mouse was straight from Dublin. Murphy. An Irish mouse.

Murphy, that's right. By the way, that was a good move to change it. I can't imagine Muffy Mouse as any other name. it was a good move to change it. I can't imagine Muffy Mouse as any other name. Well, you can't now. But I did like Murphy because I thought it had a very kind of, well, what we used to call a unisex name, you know, like it could have been male or female, sort of gender neutral, whatever. Sure. But anyway, they changed it to Muffy, which I thought was cutesy-wootsy. But then, you know, you get used to it, whatever it is, and you love it. So, yeah. So I just remember, I don't even think I auditioned. It was like, there's this show, you know, are you available?

And I said, yeah, okay. Yeah, sounds great. So we went in the first day. We had a table read in a church basement near TVO at Young and Egg. And it was the first day meeting the other cast members. Okay, tell us the other cast members. So Noreen Virgin played Jodi, and Jeff Hislop played Jeff,

and Bob Dermer was Sam. And Noreen Virgin, we would know her as a newsreader now. She did a bunch of... She did Eye on Toronto. I think she hosted that for a while. And then she worked as a newsreader. Newsworld, maybe? Newsworld International,? Newsworld International.

Right. Yeah. And then I'm not sure now. I think she got very politically involved in where she lives now. So it was really a wonderful day to sit around and meet each other, do a bit of a table read of the pilot, and call me Murphy. Murphy Mouse. Yeah. But the voice, so tell me, how did you come up with the, can you do any of it now? Would you do any Muffy now that we're in, should I get you some water? My voice, okay, let's see.

Is your name Mike Boone? Do you eat with a spoon? Yeah, we got to write everything in rhyme. What rhymes, you're listening to Toronto Mike. But he, Mike rides a bike. That's true. I don't know. Sometimes it just comes out.

So this is a little kind of an interesting story. I always like to tell that we were going to do the pilot. And so I said to our director, Clive, Clive, I think I have to tell you something. I think I'm pregnant. And he said, that's okay. We'll work around it. And they did. And so I worked through my pregnancy. And even when I was this huge, huge thing, I was stuffed in a trunk where I had to work Muffy, Mouse. And it was some pirate show we did. And they had dug a hole in the ground. And we were

down in the ground. And I don't know, it's just kind of crazy. And then I got toxemia as I was getting towards the end of the pregnancy. And so I was going to have to go into the hospital. And we were still shooting. So what Clive did was he put me in a sound room, he rented a hospital bed. And I laid in the hospital bed because I had to get bed rest, and had a mic hanging over me, and I had to read all my lines, you know, looking up at my... And then what happened was, for those shows that I could not do, the sound was already there. And my friend and colleague Bob Stutt came in and he did Muffy's movements in sync. Bob played Mort Mouse.

So he was already, you know, with the show. But it was interesting to watch the shows that Bob did playing Muffy because his movement of Muffy was totally different than mine. So how is it different? I'm curious. Well, you know, there's a certain way you work. There's a certain way that you move your puppet. And Bob's was a little bit more frenetic. You know, I mean, everybody has their own walk and their own way of moving. So it was, you know. There's a clip I've shared recently on Twitter, but again, it's on retroontario.com,

I think where you can find it. But it's Muffy's riding a bike. And she ends up on Yonge Street. She's on a scooter. A scooter, of course, a scooter. Yes, it wasn't a bike. Very, very cool. I'm very trendy right now. I notice a lot of adults riding uh scooters right now we were actually on avenue road close

and at rush hour why i don't know and so i'm working muffie with a remote control panel and standing nearby i figured how you did it okay yeah and so she's got one foot on the scooter and the other foot is is sort of moving and and it looks like it's walking walking and paddling you know and it was just a rotating kind of a leg thing um and her head was turning you know around and so these were long shots of her coming up Avenue Road. I don't know how there weren't more accidents on that street because it was kind of bizarre.

By the end of Muffy's journey, she went the last two seconds. She's actually on Yonge Street, I think, the last two seconds. But it's pouring rain in that scene. So as I recall, it didn't look like it was some kind of, it wasn't an effect or something.

It just looked like it was pouring rain on Muffy. I don't remember that. I'm going to throw you the YouTube clip to refresh your memory. Yeah, I think so. And I almost think we need to step back just a moment here because, of course, I'm assuming people listening now, I'm assuming they all know today's special, but maybe just set the table a little bit. Let's talk really briefly about the premise of today's special, right? So this is a Simpsons department store.

It was called Simpsons. It then became the Bay for people who, you know, whatever age group you are in, but, um, it was Simpsons department store. And it was, so the whole, the whole premise was that it was after the store closed at night, uh, Jodi was going to set the mannequins up. And she was, you know, she was in charge of all the display. And Sam would go around and check all the doors, make sure everything was closed up. And then we had our mannequin who she, in the opening, she carries the mannequin up the escalator. And when Muffy comes up and says the magic words, Muffy the mouse, the mannequin comes to life.

And so during the day, the mannequin would just be like a mannequin. But at night, this is what would happen. But I remember the hat was important, right? Yes. When the hat came off, the mannequin froze. Jeff froze. Right, right, right. By the way, how's Jeff doing? Is he on the West Coast too? He's on the West Coast too, yes.

I know that he was directing. He was with the Vancouver Playhouse. I think he was the artistic director there for a while. Cool. You know, so he says, I talked to him not that long ago, and he said he just can't kick as high as he used to when you watched him on today's special. Okay, there's a question here and there.

This is Pete M. Pete M is a listener of Toronto Mic. Pete M says, Jeff is an accomplished dancer. Did he walk normally on set, or did he shake and move everywhere he went? That's the question from Pete M. No, but he had incredible posture. I'll bet, I'll bet.

And he knew how to, the thing about dancers, and my parents were both professional ballet dancers, so there was a way, there's a way that professional dancers know how to move around other people. They know how to get out of the way. They know how to maneuver, and it's really quite fascinating to watch around other people. They know how to get out of the way. They know how to maneuver. And it's really quite fascinating to watch people like that. I just,

no grace at all for me. I mean, although my, my daughter who turns 14 on Sunday, so happy birthday, Michelle. Uh, she's a competitive dancer and she does ballet and she's,

she's got what you're describing there, like a sense of movement that I just don't, I don't have it at all. I don't know where she got it from her mom, I guess. But, uh a sense of movement that I just don't have it at all. I don't know where she got it from, her mom, I guess. But the grace is what I just, the grace and the fluidity. There is grace. There's an elegance. And just, you know, I just find the posture is always amazing

and the way they stand, they stand. And I'm an artist, so I love to draw dancers. I love that. We'll get to art soon, of course. Yeah, because you're not doing puppeteering anymore. Or will you still do it for the right... somebody opens up the wallet and says,

I do a little stand-up here and there. I gotcha. Now, one more question from Pete M. This kind of ties in nicely to what we were talking about earlier of Noreen. He says, more of a statement. Noreen Virgin, Jodi. By the way, there's somebody on Twitter

going by the handle Jodi's Jumpsuit. Are you aware of this? No. Yeah, Jodi's Jumpsuit is on Twitter. She's a good follow too. I hope she's listening. But more of a statement. Noreen Virgin could have been my MPP

in Hamilton East Stony Creek in 2007. Yep. If it weren't for those commie pinko NDPs. So that's a fun fact. So that answers the question. And I'm just going to make sure. Don't unplug us here. If we lose power, I'm blaming Teddy here.

Teddy the dog is underneath my feet here. And here's another question. Daryl Samuel says, don't have a question, but seeing this photo, I put out a photo of Muffy, Muffy Mouse. You immediately had me flipping

into the voice of Muffy and then immediately thinking of the voice of Sam. Ha, ha, ha, ha. And again, this goes back to nostalgia is a potent drug. And you said you see like 40 year old peopleold people become six-year-olds again. And that's something like you can do it with music.

Like music can do that to you. And something like this, a television show you watch can bring you back. It's got to be amazing wielding such power. You have the power to make a 40-year-old a six-year-old. That's amazing. You know what? So I got to tell you, just generally speaking, when people find out, and it could be they're a cop or a guard or, you know, or somebody in power, like a border guard, when they find

out, when I come back into Canada and they find out, and I do drop this sometimes because, and I used to have a license plate that said puppet on it and so i'd get police not that i was stopped a lot or anything when you're speeding you just speak in rhyme and what is that and i tell them and they go oh my god and all of a sudden this police officer is again you know like this little seven-year-old kid and it's really quite moving to watch because they just soften up completely. Their body language changes. That's the power.

Yeah. That people go back to a time when they were happy and they were children and things were, you know, were good for the most part, not for all kids. You don't have an ID. You don't know what a mortgage is. You don't know what a job is. Like that really is the brief moment in your life

when your responsibilities are zilch. Like you get your food prepared. I mean, I got a four-year-old and a two-year-old. They don't realize how good they have it. You know what I mean? Yes. Our children are all entitled. Here's your food now.

I know. Oh, that's amazing. That's amazing. So that was daryl samuels and here's another one i got so many uh i got so many questions about today's special but mike gregotsky were you this is for you nina i almost called you muffy but you're nina were you on set during the voice or did you record it after the episode was over so i guess he wants to know the logistics of the puppeteering and the voiceover. Are they happening? You're doing it, like, how is that working? Yeah, it's live to tape.

So absolutely. Oh, just like this podcast. Just, yes. Live to tape. They're not supposed to know that. We're supposed to be live. But yeah, we always, almost always, except for doing commercials.

So if they hired a voice person to do a puppet character, they would do playback of that for me as a puppeteer for a character I had created for the commercial. But on shows like this, we typically would, and we also sang live for the most part. Every series I ever did, I had to sing on. And if you're off key, they make you do it,

you have to do it again and everyone ticked off, right? You're never off key. No, can't be. You're pretty well live to tape. If there's a real awful, awful noise that comes out, yes, they might do a pickup

or something, yeah. I once, so, I mean, I'm not in the industry, but I once watched the taping of a Conan O'Brien late night program. I watched it at the Winter Elgin Theatre downtown Toronto. I was shocked at how it was live

to tape completely. Even they stopped for the commercials and they stopped for the length of the commercial. It was all as if it could have been live. It wasn't live, but it could have been. There was zero, oh, I flubbed that line, I, it wasn't live, but it could have been, there was zero like, Oh, I flubbed that line. I'm doing it again.

No, no, but that's the fun thing about live anyway is that, you know, it's especially for a show like that. I think when you're, when you're an interview show, no, that's,

that's, you don't want to, that's why this is, that's why I'm not, that's why this is all, whatever you say now, I'm just letting you know, if Muffy accidentally swears,

it's on the program. You can't take that back. So be careful. Don't ever slip in Muffy's on the program. You can't take that back. So be careful. Don't ever slip in Muffy's voice, okay? I can't promise anything. The 40-year-olds who turn to six-year-olds will be... I know. They'll need therapy.

I know. I just thought of Muffy going blue. And it's like, holy smokes. So Mike Rogotsky... Oh, yeah. I already did that one. Here, let's hear the origin. So I have a few clips from today's special.

Okay. This is actually the Muffy origin story. So let's listen back to the Muffy. Our story. Our story, right. Okay, what's the big idea? Busting in here, little mouse? Sam, please, maybe she's hurt.

I hope you haven't broken any bones. Oh, a bruise or two, I think that's all. No bones broken in my fall. Hey, that's a talking mouse, Jody. That's mighty strange. Don't you know mice aren't supposed to talk? Well, this mouse talks all the time. Not only that, I talk in rhyme.

Still kind of strange if you ask me. Well, forgive me for being talkative, but I'm looking for a place to live. Oh, well, you're going to have to look someplace else. After all, this is a store. This isn't a hotel, you know. Oh, come on, Sam. There's plenty of places for her to live here.

Anyway, I think she's kind of cute. And they kept her. They let her stay there. And they kept her. So you're great. You're great as Muffy, but I got to give Bob some props. That's Sam Crenshaw.

That's a kick-ass voice he's doing. It is a kick-ass voice. He's always done great voices for all the puppet stuff he's done, and he's also a very fine stage actor. Okay, so Simpsons, and anyone who remembers today's special remembers Simpsons.

I don't know when they disappeared. The 90s, I think, that The Simpsons disappeared maybe. But I'm just – so, okay. You recorded – you didn't do this at The Simpsons. Like, you were doing this at Young and Eglinton. Is that right? Or, like, were you in – like, is it a set? Okay, so we were in many different studios around the city.

many different studios around the city. And, and we, for the actual store shots, we were in the store. So we would go into Simpsons at about nine o'clock, the store closed, we came in with our gear and our props and costumes. And you know, the whole, that became our studio. And then if we were doing like we did a show on, I, you know, the whole, that became our studio. And then if we were doing, like we did a show on, I don't know what it was, sleep or beds or something, and we were up in the bedding, the bed department, that was fun. I think I have some pictures of the crew all lying on the bed when we had our break and jumping on the beds and stuff.

And it was really spooky too because all the lights go down really low at night, right? They're not going to leave these bright lights up. And so you'd say, okay, where's the washroom? Because you would have to go onto another floor. So somehow you had to go down some stairs or something to another floor. And it was incredibly scary and creepy

because you're not used to being in a big department store like that, huge department store. And there was just something kind of really eerie about it. And yeah. I'm just glad Sam could have like got a bunch of mouse traps and set them up or something. I'm just thinking of how ugly that could have ended.

Oh, you're going back to that. I went back, I went back to that. And I guess this is the right time for this. I just got a flashback memory flush of 14 years ago Sunday. So my daughter was born 14 years ago Sunday. And the night she was born at Women's College Hospital, and I was driving. This is like four in the morning, okay? She was born early in the morning.

Four in the morning. I'm driving like south on, where am I? I'm on Bay, okay?'m on bay street yeah and i look to my left where and the simpsons was dressed up to be madison square garden so the simpsons the store that we're talking about was dressed up to be madison square gardens and there were cars from the 1930s there and people were dressed up like it was the 30s. And it turned out they were filming a scene from Cinderella Man that night.

That was happening that night. It was happening at four in the morning. It looked like I was driving by Madison Square Gardens in the 1930s. And that was The Simpsons. Was that Russell Crowe? By the way, very good movie. Maybe I'm a little biased because I have that memory,

but I thought it was a really strong movie. And there's a lot of scenes. I don't know. There's a St. Cecilia's Church near Annette and Runnymede. That pivotal scenes happened there, and there were scenes around there. So you recognized a lot of these places because they filmed it all here.

Yeah. And I like him. I like him as a character. And there were no puppets. I was disappointed in that. They could have put some puppets in there. There are puppets in many movies, though. Team Police.

Team America. World Police. That has puppets in it. But you didn't work on that one. No, I didn't. America. Yeah. Beep.

That was amazing. So that's the Muffy origin story for people who needed that. And here's a question from Chris. So that's the Muffy origin story for people who needed that. And here's a question from Chris. Are you still as emotionally scarred as I am from the episode where a fire broke out in Muffy's little apartment? Yeah. That was something to shoot, I'll tell you. Those six-year-olds, they probably were afraid to even have a controlled fire at a campsite after that.

Don't even want barbecues. We traumatized everybody. Yeah. Yeah, it's, well, first of all, when you're working in the studio and there's fire or smoke or any kind of effect, it's, you know, they're very, very cautious. There are, sometimes there's even a firefighter standing by, you know, with a, and they certainly have their extinguishers and all that stuff. So lots of care taken for that. But yeah, I think that was one show where, yeah, that that was

very dramatic. And you do feel it as the character. And, and there was another show with, with Phil, the show called Phil, who came in, turned out to be an alcoholic, and it was a show on bullying, where Muffy was bullied by him. Do you want to hear some of the Phil? I have some. Oh, do you? So now we're talking about

what I would call very special episodes. Yeah, yeah, very, yes. There's a couple here. That's where I'm going now. Let's hear Muffy and alcohol, but Muffy's not drinking the alcohol. I just want to point that out. Muffy couldn't drink much, right?

Like a little teaspoon of alcohol and she'd be plastered. Is that fair? She'd be way very much. If she indulged, probably. But, you know, it was Phil who was the photographer who came into the store

to shoot some of the displays. And he and Muffy would end up, she kind of saw something. Here's Phil. I have to ask, have you been drinking from that flask? If I were you, Muffy, I'd mind my own business and just do like I've asked you and move that thing over. Now, come on, move it over. More, more. No, stop.

You've gone too far again. No, back. Over. What's the matter with you? Well, just say which way. That way, that way. Back, that way. Now you've done it.

Oh, I didn't know which way to go. Some helper you are. Get out of the way. I'll do it myself. Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Muffy, look what you made me do. Look at this mess. You've ruined the whole shoot. You've ruined everything. The whole evening is wasted. Oh, please, oh, please. You needn't shout. I only tried to help you out.

Well, you didn't try hard enough. Now get out of here. I don't want to ever see you again. Oh, oh, this breaks my little heart. I should have told Sam from the start. From the start. Broke my heart. That was one heavy episode to do.

I'll never forget it because it seemed to affect many, many people on our production who had experienced something. And the pall over our studio for three days was really, you could cut it with a knife, honestly. And playing that character did take a toll on me. Absolutely. It was horrible being the victim, playing the victim, because you do get into the character.

It doesn't matter that it's a puppet character. You're still an actor, and you still have to get into that character. And it was just so horrible. And everybody, like there was just silence. Like usually we're laughing all the time. The cast and crew were kibitzing and laughing all the time. There was nothing on this set. It was just like crickets, right? And Gerard Parks, who played a wonderful Phil, stayed in character during our lunch and our breaks. Well, like that's method acting there. Yeah. So it was really, you couldn't just friendly up to him over the shoot because he was, he wanted to stay in character. For today's special, that sounds like he's going for an Oscar there. That's above and beyond, right? Well, it's interesting because, I mean,

different actors have different ways of working, but you also have to realize that we had as many writers on our show. You know, we had five to six, seven writers on our show, like some talk shows, you know? I mean, it doesn't matter whether you do a kid's show or an adult show the same professionalism and the same level of uh you know expertise comes in with everybody on the production so uh yeah you treat it as a professional gig absolutely did you consider possibly nina i don't i don't mean to burst your bubble, but maybe he wasn't acting. Maybe he was wasted. Maybe he was in character during lunch because he was hammered.

I won't comment. I have no idea, you know, because you know he was on the Fraggle Rock. You know, he played that lovely character. Yeah, he was, Sprocket was the dog. I can't remember, but I remember him as the dog. Yeah, and then under the floor were all the... Speaking of shows where you had the puppets

and the live action kind of intermingling. Yeah. I loved Fraggle Rock. Yeah. And that was going on while I was shooting Today Special

for all those years. A lot of my buddies were shooting on Fraggle Rock. So we were all working. It was incredible. We were working. I remember the garbage heap. That was a scary character

on Fraggle Rock was the garbage pile or whatever he was called. Yes. Yeah, it was a very good show. Okay, so that episode there with the alcoholism at show. When you have these writers, at some point, is there a child therapist or psychologist

who kind of goes through these scripts to make sure that it's properly presented to us vulnerable children? Clive was really an amazing director and um he wrote a lot of the music as well and the phil show was one that he was really afraid to uh he was afraid to put it on the air he it was so heavy but uh he got really good feedback from it. And if we save one or two kids, great. Right, it was presented in a way that will help the children

instead of making everyone afraid of when their dad has one beer or whatever watching the hockey game. Yeah, I think it was really well done. And I think Clive would definitely have run this by a psychologist for sure. Now, a bit earlier than that episode was a PSA that would run with a father who had one too many pops, as we say,

had one too many and his son asks him to help him fix his little car. It was actually a little General Lee from Dukes of Hazzard and I related to this because I was about the same age as the boy and I had a General Lee like that because that was my favorite show was Dukes of Hazzard and the dad to this because I was about the same age as the boy and I had a general lead like that because that was my favorite show

was Dukes of Hazzard and the dad can't fix it because he's had one too many and then the dad snaps at the kid and says something like go to bed now and to this day we're 40 years later and by the way if my kids are misbehaving I'll drop that line on them but they know I'm joking

the older two but I'm still kind of scarred by that dad's reaction it's pretty hard on on us you know whether we're kids or adults but as kids it's pretty pretty scary now sesame street is famous for uh sort of how it dealt with death like it was one of the first children's shows to kind of like, Mr. Hooper dies in real life. Yeah. And in the show he dies and there's that famous scene

where they're trying to explain to Big Bird and I could tear up just thinking about it. I remember, yes, yeah. And then I think Maria or somebody says like, he's not coming back.

Yeah. And Big Bird's like, okay, well I guess I'll see him later. And it was like, no, you won't see him later. So you did something similar on today's special.

Yeah, yeah. I'm going to play a clip. I call this clip Butterfly. Yes. Jeff was so thoughtful to get this box. And I love the way Jodi did my name. I'm glad you're delighted. But me, I'm excited.

You are? How come? Well, Jeff and Jodi said okay when I asked them if you could stay. You don't have to fly away. You'll get better, and then we can play. That would be wonderful, Muffy, but... But what? I'm not going to get better.

I'm dying. You're dying? You're lying. No. I told you I'm dying. You're dying? You're lying. No. I told you I'm old. And it's time for me to die. That's all there is to it. But I'll always remember you, Muffy. And Jeff. And Jody.

And Sam with his silly net. You've all been such good friends. Oh, Hazel, no. I don't think we can continue, Nina. I think we have to shut this down. That's the saddest thing I've ever heard. Yeah, another kind of tough show to do. Is that the most crying you've had to do on today's special?

That one, that scene? That's a lot of tears. Probably, yeah, probably. Oh, yeah, and you do, I mean, you do get into it. There's no doubt about it. That was another one where, you know, again, Clyde was like, oh, it's going to, you know, because when you present something like that to children,

you're always going to get some nasty blowback. But you know that it's really important to do that, right well it's real talk like this is reality and i mean you guys did it in a very gentle way because it's a butterfly right right you used a butterfly and right yeah and uh they used mr hooper but uh of course mr hooper uh was such a method actor he died for the cause he had to die in real life i'm sorry that's not mr hooper i'm sorry you're dark if you, I'm sorry. You're dark. If you're listening. But back to the butterfly. Who voiced that butterfly?

Do you remember? I think it might have been Nikki Tilrow. I'm not sure who had played the mime. So I think it might have been Nikki. But the visual, of course, you can't see it

because this is a podcast, but you see the butterfly die. The wings come down for the last time. Yes. And I think she may have operated it. And here's something can't see it because this is a podcast but you see the the butterfly die like the wings yeah for the last time and i think she may have operated and the here's here's something uh about the butterfly the butterfly was made for especially for us by a very special kind of artist and it costs a lot of money and uh was beautifully painted and. And so after the show aired, of course, you know, you're waiting for all these people to write in, or in those days it was writing in because we did not have the Internet.

And so we're getting all these lovely messages about, oh, what a lovely way to let children know about death and so on. But then the one message that came in that just kind of cracked us up was from some butterfly expert who said that they'd gotten a color wrong on the wings. Buzz kill right there.

Kind of a buzz kill. At least they're paying attention. Yeah, they're paying attention. I'd frame that letter if I got that right. Oh, man. I like this comment. Anne Caster Jeff says, wouldn't it be ironic if Muffy was an orange, silver, or purple wolf?

Now, Jeff is being very clever here because I believe these are the words in the English language that nothing rhymes with. Orange, silver, or purple wolf. I don't think those rhyme. Oh, my God. But, of course, Muffy was a mouse, so lots of things rhyme with mouse.

But I thought that was a clever comment from Anne Castor Jeff. Yes, very clever. You got me. I didn't write the stuff, okay? No, no, no. But you know what I have? Because I get a lot of requests for pictures and the poster, the Today's Special poster, that's all on it.

And I still get tons and tons. I should say tons and tons, but I still get a lot. And so I have Webster's rhyming dictionary at home so I can write things in rhyme. Good. But at one point I got, I had to write a whole bunch of these things. I think my son's friends all wanted them.

And I'm writing, Dear Mary, at least you're not Larry. You know, and I'm starting to get so tired of going, and I hate your guts. And I'm not going to rhyme anymore. Goodbye.

That's the one I want. I hate your guts. I put that up here beside my public animation. One of my friends has, one of my son's friends has that one. That's funny. That's funny. There's a guy named, I think it's a guy. I shouldn't say that. It could be a gal, but it's the person on Twitter

is named The Key. That's the name of this person. They said, loved this show so much. Does she know what happened to Jeff's mannequin? So, and there's a few. We'll start with that. Do you have any idea like what happened to jeff's mannequin so and there's a few we'll start with that do you have any idea like what happened to the mannequin of jeff or the uh muffy puppet like where's the muffy puppet is in a museum somewhere okay so there were several of them uh one of them was the main one that i operated all the time it was a hand and rod puppet

there was another one that was just a doll that i'd use to throw through the air. If you saw Muffy flying, there was one, a super Muffy or whatever she was called. There was the other one that was the remote control one. And then there was an extra one for quick costume change or whatever. So I have a Muffy. My son has a Muffy. I have a Muffy. My son has a Muffy. And I think probably Noreen Young, who created Muffy, has one. And I'm not sure if there's one in the Museum of Civilization in, well, it's called Museum of History now, I think. Gatineau, right? Yes, over the bridge. People think it's Ottawa, but I believe it's Gatineau. It's over the bridge, in Hull. It's over the bridge. It's in Hull. Right, right. Which they now call Gatineau for right? Yes. Over the bridge. People think it's Ottawa, but I believe it's Gatineau. It's over the bridge in Hull. Over the bridge.

It's in Hull. Right, Hull. Which they now call Gatineau for some reason. Oh, do they? They've rebranded it. Oh, it's not Hull anymore. When I was a kid, it was Hull,

but now it's Gatineau. Yeah, I thought it was Hull. Okay, yeah. So, yeah. So, there are a lot of, I've got a lot of puppets in there. How are the turtles in there? And the kittens and cats,

raccoons from Friendly Giant are in there too. I think there are a lot of different characters in there from different shows. And I guess you don't know about Jeff's hat. Jeff got the hat. Jeff's got the hat. Jeff owns the hat.

Bobby owns it. He stole that hat, right? No, no. At our very, very final wrap party, which was quite moving and wonderful, and I've got a lot of it on video, Jeff was presented with the hat. What did Doreen get? I don't know.

Maybe she got her… Her jumpsuit? Her jumpsuit or her character shoes, her pink character shoes. I got a Muffy and Bob got Sam. Cool. And the mannequin, I don't know where that is, but a lot of these things all go into a big props warehouse and they get reused

and so on. Now, she writes, I vaguely remember an episode with a more glamorous version of Muffy, a mouse named Buffy, or am I making this up? Please tell us, did this exist this exist yeah there was a show

that I did with Jeff and I we were all dressed up in very fancy fancy glamorous outfits so I I can't remember what it was that you know listeners might might know but I remember being dressed up and uh and then I was dancing with Jeff and that was a really fun show to do because Jeff had one of the he had Muffy in his arms so for the long shots the wide shots she had her legs on and he was dancing with her in his arms and it really looked great and then they'd cut to and this is where we had to stop and, you know, cut and start to get, you know, and I'd get down on a puppet stool with Muffy and you'd see Muffy from, you know, her waist up and Jeff dancing with Jeff. So I was actually operating her and looking around and talking.

And then they'd cut to wide shots with the doll Muffy. Why can't we buy this series on DVD? This is really quite the issue. The cast have for decades wanted to get this put out there. And TVO has resisted. And part of, you know, I mean, they're not supposed to make a profit, right? Because they're... They're a public broad? Because they're a public broadcaster. And so, you know, there's never really been a good reason

why they wouldn't release it. I mean, we've been going on about this well before the big internet, you know, thing. This show is on YouTube. You can probably find them all. There's no way of controlling anything like that. And one of the issues for TVO to do this was they would have to pay step up fees to the musicians, the writers, the performers. And it's a lot of administrative work, blah, blah, blah.

But you know, we were just thinking it would be great to release online where maybe you subscribed or something or they do something with a sponsor like Milk or, you know, some sponsor. Somebody came up with a couple of suggestions about how...

TVO is the roadblock here. They're the bottleneck here. TVO. Come on. What do we have to do? Write our MPP? Is that what we do here? Well, we were encouraging, you know, for a long time, encouraging people, write in, write in, and say you want it released.

Because we did have, we had video cassettes. We had... Yeah, VHS. I saw there's VHS, but no DVD, right? Is that the... No, no DVD. And we had an album that was then put out on vinyl and...

Yeah, you're forcing what you've done and it's not you, of course. You're the talent who wants it out there. Yeah. But they forced us to pirate it,

which is where the Ed Conroys of the world come in. Yeah, that's basically... We have no choice. And you know, like I say, in this day and age,

it's very hard to control a pirating of what you know things that are going on it's just it's just it's like whack-a-mole just out there yeah you know it pops up somewhere else now you mentioned the you know compensates of course there's talent like yourself on these shows and then there's these musicians who worked on these shows and a couple i understand uh you've had some big names that worked on it uh bruceburn worked on today's special. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, that was fun.

It was just kind of cool, you know? And the other person who, for me, was really big was Oscar Peterson, the jazz pianist, Canadian, famous Canadian jazz pianist. There's actually, really close to where we're sitting right now, there's a big mural of Lakeshore residents who went on to big fame. Dave Boland and these kind of...

Oscar Peterson, his face is there in the mural. Didn't he come from Park Credit? Yeah, but I guess they've taken him as their own because he's a Lakeshore resident. He was, of course, of some note. Yeah, but he's a big deal.hore resident of some who was of course of some note yeah but he's a big deal he is a very big deal if you're into jazz and you know uh we've got so

many wonderful musicians in our in our country and my thrill was actually being able to have Muffy sing next to him he did when we brought in somebody big like that they would do we'd get them to do a couple of shows because while they're over there let's get them for a couple of episodes so i got to sing with him and then at the same time i got to uh buy a grand piano for myself that he had played down a bourbon street on queen street west get out of here so I owned... That's in your Danforth home. No, it's in my Newfoundland home. You have a Newfoundland home. I did, and

I had to leave my... I sold the house and I had to leave the piano there. Yeah. So that's a whole other part. Did you go to anything at the Beaches Jazz Festival? Did you attend any of these events? I was going to go and it rained and a friend

of mine was singing. Just to promote my next guest Bill King. Bill King. It's okay if you don't know. I'm excusing you if you don't know the name. I probably do. I'm better with photographs, faces. He's a jazz

pianist and he's one of the organizers of the Beaches Jazz Festival there. And yeah, so if Bill... He's also on the radio and stuff in the city. Yeah, I'm sure he was playing actually with Debbie Fleming, my friend, who's a singer, one night at the 120. Probably, yeah, the 120.

I know that name. Yeah. Very exciting. So, okay, so I won't... I think that's enough. I could do, for example, I could do hours, but we have to get you to a dinner,

so I can't go forever on today's special, except to just make sure that you, and it sounds like you have a good grasp on the enduring legacy of the show. It sounds like you appreciate that and understand that, yeah, if a 40-year-old finds out who you are, you're bigger than, like, that's bigger than saying,

oh, hey, there's Tom Cruise over there, or that's Brad Pitt. I think Muffy's a bigger deal for some reason. Let me tell you something. This is just freak me out. I was invited to, I lecture at different universities. So every year at Ryerson, I was doing that. I went to York University.

I'm talking to the kids who are coming out of the drama. And so they had been told that I was coming. And so I brought Muffy in a big green garbage bag, which, you know, we call the green room. They, as I walked into the room, they literally screamed and yelled like I was a rock star. I couldn't believe it. It really, really chills you, you know? Oh, for sure. sure for sure uh of course the 80s is also when you since we're doing this by decade the 80s is also when you did your mr dress up and friendly giant but we covered that earlier but here's a show this is a series about a punk band a punk band of bats that moved to toronto okay and i mean one of the voices on this thing is Billy Vann, okay? Yeah. So Billy, hilarious house

of Freidenstein and a whole lot. Billy Vann, he was a legend. But let me play something from this. Which might be instrumental, but this is...

It's from back? Oh, here we go. Yeah. which might be instrumental, but this is, uh, it's from back. Here we go. Yeah. 86. Yeah. 86. Yeah. Okay, so they made a pilot episode. CBC did this.

They made this pilot episode, Bats, but it never went to series, I guess. No. It didn't get picked up. I don't think it did. It's so interesting because you're the first interviewer I've been with who's brought this up.

No one else. I'd totally forgotten about it. Well, you know why? It's because I'm close friends of Ed Conroy of Retro Ontario. He's a walking... They didn't do their homework like I do. He's a walking encyclopedia.

We shot this in Noreen Young, Noreen Young who made, who built Sam and Muffy. We shot this in Noreen Young, who built Sam and Muffy. We shot this in her studio near Ottawa. And yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was, the puppets were terrific. And I, you know, I don't know whatever happened to it. Why didn't they pick this up?

I'm so upset now to hear that CBC didn't pick this up. Because I mean, a punk band of bats that moves to Toronto with voice talents like yourself and Billy Van. Come on. That's a no-brainer.

I don't know. Come on, bats. Who knows? Who knows? 86, ahead of its time, too. Maybe too far ahead of its time. And the 90s, okay, you mentioned

we talked about Sesame Street a few times, but there was a Canadian Sesame Street, right? Sesame Park? Yes. And you worked on that series. I worked. I was sort of a guest puppeteer there was a Canadian Sesame Street, right? Sesame Park? Yes. And you worked on that series? I worked, I was sort of a guest puppeteer. I wasn't a regular, but they, it was really

fun, you know, just working with Henson Muppets. And the reason they called it Sesame Park was that Canadian kids tend to play in parks, whereas they were talking about New York kids played in the street. So they kind of just renamed it. But that was one of many things that Jim Henson shot in Toronto that we all did. We worked on specials like Emmett Otter's Jug Band Christmas that we shot at CTV and another show called Dog City. Bruce McAuliffe, right?

Am I right? Maybe that's Dog Park, actually. That might not be Dog City. I wrote Bruce McAuliffe, right? Am I right? I got the wrong... Maybe that's Dog Park, actually. That might not be Dog City. I think I had the wrong dog show. Okay, sorry. That's Teddy's fault. You got me turned around.

But please, sorry. Ignore that. Yeah, so it was great fun working with his puppets, yeah. And here's a theme song to another show you did in the... Actually, in the 90s, of course. We're in the 90s here. Yeah. And here's a theme song to another show you did in the, actually in the 90s, of course, we're in the 90s here. Yeah.

Oh, no. Not again. Oh. Book mice. Book mice. They live inside the library. Book mice. Behind the wall where no one can see, look twice. Three curious mice who love to read, book mice.

There's Norbert, Dazzy, and Lea. They've got a lot to say to them. Book mice. Look twice. Book mice. Book mice. So briefly tell us about Book Mice. Well, Book Mice came about after a series we did called The Magic Library.

And it was about mice who lived in a library. But it was called The Magic Library. And I had these three mice characters I built, and then some bigger characters that were operated by two people. And they told stories. And then they had, I think they had some animation. But they had these puppets. So that series was over.

And then a friend of mine called me up, who was a producer at TVO. And he said, Nina, he said, I have just inherited three mice and a series called The Book Mice. And I went, oh, you're kidding oh my gosh great more work and you are you are the mouse like that is like your your thing is to be a mouse yeah i can't get away from it anyway so um so the mice were already there and now uh jeremy is gonna produce and direct this new show with the mice because the feedback was so good on the characters they gave them their own show so that's pretty cool and here's a commercial for it this is 1993 okay I'm Norbert I'm Zazie I'm Leon we're the book mice there are lots of stories

and music and magic in the library on book mice and of course there are lots of stories and music and magic in the library on Bookmice. And of course, there are lots of laughs and lots of fun. So join Leon and Zazie and Norbert and all their friends. Monday morning at 1030. Get ready to learn. Bookmice. Yes. Bookmice.

Yeah. Yeah, that's great. That's great. That was a fun show. I'm going to just put this on the background while we find out what you're up to these days. And then I have a fun fact for you about today's special to leave you with. But we're listening to Guido Basso. Oh, thank you.

And Guido, tell us who Guido is and why you love Guido. Guido Basso is a wonderful musician. That's him. He plays brass, plays the horns. And I've got his albums. I know him. We were CBC people way back in the day, in the 60s and 70s, and he's my Facebook friend, and so, you know, go and see him when he plays.

He's, I think, 80 years old. He is just a wonderful, wonderful musician. Awesome. And I love his music. And you mentioned art. So tell us, like, what are you up to these days? You're an artist? So, yeah, in 2000, I had a studio and a gallery.

I became a visual artist. And I've been doing that ever since. And I lived in Newfoundland for five years, and I had a gallery there. And then I came back. So, yeah, I'm exhibiting and solo shows and group shows. And it's, it's wonderful. That is wonderful. That's fantastic. And here's the very fun fact I'm going to leave you with about today's special. So there was a series, I think it's over now, but there was a series called The Leftovers. Have you ever heard? There's a show, I think it might

be HBO, but it's a big, big, big time American series called The Leftovers and how do I even set this up because I didn't watch this but it was brought to my attention but there's a character in this show The Leftovers and let me just read this here her final intro Tommy and Jill are these children

of a character and they couldn't remember the name of a show they used to watch when they were children, but they knew the theme song, and they would play the theme song in the show, The Leftovers, and the theme song was Today's Special. The show was Today's Special. You're kidding. Yeah, I'm not kidding.

This is modern stuff. Theoretically, and I don't know how popular The Leftovers is, I don't think it was like, it's not like we're talking Breaking Bad here, but this is a big-time production. But the theme song to, this is an American show, right? The theme song to today's special was brought to life in this series in a very interesting way, and I wasn't sure if you were aware that today, so for Canadians watching who hear this song,

it's sort of a whole different reaction, because this show was on Canada only, right? Today's special. No. Okay, tell me where the heck we could have seen it outside of Canada. You would have seen it on Nickelodeon in the States. It was the number one show. I'm so ignorant. No, you're not.

I just don't know what they're watching. And we've sold it all over the world. Oh, my God. Okay. I know that my wife, who I just heard come in upstairs, she's from Alberta, and she knows today's special. So, I knew it wasn't just an Ontario thing. Alberta, Access TV in Alberta is their, you know.

Their TVO. Their educational channel. Right. But certainly, it was sold all over the world. Of course, it was. And why didn't I know that? For some reason, I thought this was our little treasure that we sort of like it's tragically hip. We have today's special and the tragically hip. We had to share today's special of the world.

Thank you so much for doing that. Nina, what a pleasure. I can't believe I got to talk to Muffy Mouse. Amazing. And those stories were amazing. And I think I got you out in time that I can walk you to your friend's house and you're still going to be in time for dinner. And now you're bringing a six-pack of Great Lakes beer with you. I know. I'm glad I brought my little grocery

buggy with me. It's almost as if you knew there were treats coming. And Teddy, thank you. You started off a little unsure, but then Teddy settled in and was amazing. She's resigned, yes. So that's a she. Yes, she.

I've been thinking Teddy was a guy. Theodora. Theodora. Theodora, that's right. I've got to remember the A. So thanks so much for doing this. Amazing. Thank you, Mike.

I'm really, really happy you invited me. And that brings us to the end of our 360th show. Congratulations. Thank you. 360. I saved it for you. Nina Keough. And you can follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Toronto Mike. Nina, are you on Twitter? Yes. Twitter, Instagram. Okay. What's your handle on Twitter? Probably Nina Keough. That would be good.

I'm glad you got it. People can find me. So find Nina Keoughh. That would be good. Glad you got it. Find Nina Keogh on all the social media channels, but especially Twitter. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Propertyinthe6.com is at Raptors Devotee and PayTM is at PayTM Canada.

See you all next week.