Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Murray McLauchlan: Toronto Mike'd #452

Episode Date: April 17, 2019

Mike chats with singer songwriter Murray McLauchlan about his career in music.

Welcome to episode 452 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Propertyinthe6.com, Palma Pasta, Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair, Camp Ternasol, and Sticker U. Repair, Camp Turnasol, and Sticker U. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com, and joining me this week is singer, songwriter, and may I say Canadian legend, Murray McLaughlin. Welcome, Murray. Thank you very much. That was really interesting.

Intro music, I feel like I'm parked at a stoplight beside a tuner Honda. Be honest with me. Is this music too cool for me? Be honest. Well, people can't see you, so of course it's not. Okay. Oh, they can see you. A couple of people.

We're live on Periscope now if you're listening on the podcast. But, Murray, where have all the murrays gone i'm being serious are there any murrays being uh created like i haven't seen any kids with the name murray well i think most of them are accountants and lawyers at this point at one point when back in the golden age of my dual management company this is way back when when we had business meetings there were uh two managers named bernie a lawyer named bernie and an accountant named murray so it was bernie bernie bernie murray and murray we all had to have nicknames just so we could function i i would imagine you're uh murray mac nope what was? I've never had a nickname. Oh, no nickname. The only

person that ever called me Mac was, uh, he was a jazz trumpet player from the United States because he couldn't pronounce McLaughlin. I will say I've been struggling with spelling McLaughlin because there's different ways to spell that name, right? And yours trips me up because it's the L A N, but it like,N, but I guess you're probably used to people misspelling your last name at this point. I never get used to it because there it is on the website and the album cover and people can be looking straight at it and still type it incorrectly. But the thing about the name is it's really the same bunch no matter how you spell it because uh the variations are all phonetic like irish spellings are g h l i n because irish people pronounce it mclaughlin

right and americans can't pronounce anything so there's you know horrible variations in the united states for the name you know mcglu ckl you know stuff like that but mine is pretty close and sarah mclaughlin has the you know basically the clan spelling and and my spelling is actually a variation of the clan spelling that suggests that historically your people went back to ireland and then came back to Scotland, historically. Gotcha, and we're going to talk about Scotland, but first, this song I'm playing right now, it's an instrumental. I play it, okay, I should tell you, I play it twice a week,

because in this same studio, every Monday and Friday morning, I record Hebsey on Sports, which is a sports podcast with broadcaster Mark Hebbshire. And this is his theme music. And this song by Los Lobos is called Do the Murray. And I was thinking

I might never have another Murray on this show, so I'm going to play Do the Murray when Murray McLaughlin comes on. So if you ever need a, I don't know, a theme song, it's right there waiting for you. I shall keep that in mind. And I should also tell you, you're my second guest out of 452 episodes that was born in Scotland, because you're from Scotland.

I was born in a tropical paradise called Paisley on the sunny banks of the Clyde River, yeah. And I should point out that the first guest is, are you a footy fan? Are you a fan of soccer? Not really, no. My father was. Well, you won't know this guy then, probably. But Stephen Caldwell, who was captain of our soccer team, TFC, he was born in Scotland, born and raised in Scotland. And he was the first gentleman born in Scotland on the show. You're the second one. Can you tell me a little bit about growing up in Scotland, and I want to know when and why you came to Canada.

Well, backtracking, I came to Canada. I didn't have any choice in the matter. My family emigrated. It's a long and complicated story, but my mother and father actually emigrated separately and individually in the 1920s. My mother to Windsor, Ontario, and my father to Detroit in the United States.

He was a machinist. He worked in the auto plants. It was prohibition. He used to come across the river for the big dances and, of of course the alcohol met my mother push came to shove they got married in 1927 just in time for the market crash had two children things were terrible terrible terrible terrible as everyone knows and then they finally gave up on terrible and my father had a chance for work back in scotland so they went back

in 37, just in time for both my dad's parents to die and World War II to start. Right. And that's where they had the rest of their children, including me. So after the war was over, and by 1953, we were still on rationing, literally, you know, stamps for, you know,

kind of pound of meat per family per week sort of deal. My mother had really fond memories of living in Canada, and this is actually serious stuff. She hated the class system, which is an integral part of UK life. And if you had a bunch of people like that, you know, like your chances of rising socially are zero so my mom didn't want us growing up in paisley and becoming you know unemployed shipyard workers tugging our forelock to the man or worse being street junkies like a lot of people ended up so she kind of did a pitch battle with my dad. And in 1953, we emigrated to Canada again en masse just in time for Hurricane Hazel.

Right. And how old are you in 1953, if you don't mind me asking? I was five. I was five years old. Very young man. Okay. I had, as a matter of fact, my favorite toy was a little dinky toy, metal dinky toy, which was the coronation coach for Queen Elizabeth.

Right. Everything I know about this, I know from Netflix's The Crown. I don't know if you've caught this yet. I have watched a couple of episodes. I don't know. I like Queen Elizabeth. And also, you know,

when you really look at health issues, you look at Queen Elizabeth and you look at what happened with Princess Margaret and there is a very good case for like not smoking drinking doing drugs and being in love right like you're right you're right oh you're right uh served served Liz well and yeah Margaret passed a while ago. And even Philip, still, I don't know if he's driving anymore. I hope not, but he's doing all right for an old coot. Yeah, well, I'm sure they let him drive around the estate, but on public roads, it may be a matter of some question at this point. Now, we're going to mention something off the top,

and then we're going to revisit at the end. But I want to just let the people listening or watching on Periscope know about Voices That Care. So before we kind of do the deep dive into Murray McLachlan's legendary career, as I say, could you tell us a little bit about what's happening April 25th at the Glenn Gold Studio? Yeah, April 25th, the show, basically the doors open at seven and the show actually starts at eight. Um, Voices That Care is what the show is called. It's, it's, um, basically a fundraiser, a benefit for Room 217 Foundation, um, uh, an organization of which I am on the board. So the fundraiser is for a specific task. We have developed a particular singing program called Pathways, which is somewhat

expensive to produce. And the show raises money to put that program into adult daycare centers that have no budget or programs there are a number quite a number of them in canada and these are places where if your loved one has alzheimer's dementia or some other you know parkinsonism or some other affliction right these are places where you know caregivers park their loved one just so they can have you know a moment's relief or get some shopping done because it's very stressful. I think that's well understood now that caregiving is very, very stressful.

So our singing program, when we first introduced it into these places, blew the staff away. They were ecstatic about it because a number of things happen when people sing together. First of all, the familiarity of the song that they're singing will root them back in a place where their memories are because music is stored in a different part of the brain than conscious memory speech etc etc so if a person is losing their memories they're losing themselves and that's terrifying they're losing their sense of who they are so when they hear a piece of music that fires them back into a space and evokes a memory it's immensely comforting because it brings them back

to themselves now murray several years ago a video went viral and yeah i know yeah the way they put the walkman on the the elderly gentleman and there was a song like basically that he would i think it was a song he loved when he was like a teenager yeah it was cab calloway right it was a an elderly black man. Right. And he had been catatonic for, I think, a decade. I hadn't said a word. His chin was on his chest and, you know, people talked to him, interacted with him. But he was essentially catatonic.

They put those earphones on him and his eyes just blasted open like they were dynamited and his head came up. And within a very short time, he looked at the caregiver across from and said is it okay if i sing along it was unbelievable to to see that video and uh i do something on this program so sometimes guests if they're willing in fact if you're willing i would love to do it with you one day uh guests come back and we kick out the jams so uh guests will say these are my 10 favorite songs of all time and then we'll just we'll play the songs and we kick out the jams. So guests will say, these are my 10 favorite songs of all time. And then we'll just, we'll play the songs

and we'll talk about like, why do you love these songs? And it's unbelievable, even with people like somebody comes in and this somebody will, like Vic Router I'm thinking of or somebody like that will be, this is a song I loved listening to on 1050 Chum when I was 17 years old.

And you watch them talking about the song and they're right back there it's like a time machine it's unbelievable well I think uh when you think about music you sometimes uh you know couples they have something called our song right you know the thing that you know my mom and dad it was peg of my heart because her nickname was Peg. She was a Margaret. So couples have the song that they met to, danced to, or whatever, and it's always a part of their lives. It evokes that particular time.

And yeah, songs do that. The other benefit of this singing program is it's a group singing program. So people i'm sure if you've read any oliver sax you understand that when people sing together it releases oxytocin in the brain and that's that bonding chemical that mothers and children have when birthing occurs well so stress goes down well-being goes up talking increases increases. Socialization goes up. Happiness increases. Isolation decreases. All of these interesting things happen when people sing together.

So we should point out, Jan Arden is a part of this, right? So this Voices That Care concert, do you want to drop some names? I guess I just dropped a big one right there. Well, yeah, Jan has very kindly agreed to come and perform as part of the show. And as is well known, I mean, she had that wonderful book, Feeding Mom, that was just, you know, it was heartbreaking and joyful and funny and sweet. It was everything all at once. And some pretty good recipes, one or two of which we tried.

Her mother, unfortunately, finally passed away, so Jan has been relieved of the serious burden of being a caregiver. And as a result, she's free to do more than she has been.

So she agreed, I think, because it was so close to her heart to come and play on our show. She has a whole bunch of other stuff going on, as you know, television show. Yeah, apparently it's very popular. I hear it's doing well. Apparently there's some shenanigans going on in Ottawa,

which we're not allowed to know about or talk about or will be shot, apparently, by her management office. So Lila Bialy, who just won the Juno Award for Jazz Performance, is on the show. Gavin Crawford, who's a really great comedian and a radio host on CBC. Very funny guy. Yeah, I like that show, too, on his radio show.

Yeah, he's cool. He's a very cool guy. I'm going to play, of course, and I'm doing things from my latest record, which is Love Can't Tell Time, but I will be actually playing full strings and band, which is kind of interesting and cool. We have an actor named Ken Welsh.

I'm not going to say what he's going to do because it's just cool and kind of surprising. But Ken, you'd remember him from Twin Peaks and stuff like he played Cate Blanchett's dad in The Aviator. He's a kind of well-known actor. He's one of those guys where if you actually saw him, you'd go, oh, yeah, yeah, you. Character actor. Yeah, yeah.

I love those guys. I know that guy. I don't know his name, but I know that guy. People stop you in the subway and go, you're that guy. You know? Yeah. You're that guy, you know? Yeah.

Now, if somebody wants to attend this show on April 25th at Glenn Gold Studio, where should they go to buy a ticket? They should go very hastily because I think there might be at this point maybe 10 left. We're pretty close to sold out, but there may be some. Which is a good thing. Yeah, it's terrific. Uh, there were pretty close to sold out, but I, there may be some, which is a good thing. Yeah. It's terrific. There may be some strays in the back, but, uh, act fast.

You can go to the room two 17, uh, website room two 17.com, uh, or CA. I can't remember which it is, but room two 17, you'll find it. And, uh, there's a little banner at the top that says buy tickets, voices that care. And then you just get hit theickets button, and off you go. Good for you. Now, before I want to get you to the coffee houses in Yorkville, that's where I want to get you, but first I want to give you some presents,

because you came all this way. So, courtesy of Great Lakes Brewery, they're a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. There's a six-pack of beer in front of you, Marie. That's yours to take home, share with the family, or enjoy yourself. I'm delighted. My friend Jenny loves beer, as a matter of fact. Okay, good.

We'll take care of that. Hey, you said okay good off mic. You got 10 bread. And what's in the red box here? The beautiful red box. Hold it up to the camera. Oh, yeah. Thank you.

That's Palma Pasta. They have Palma's Kitchen. Just to make it really tough to say. Palma Pasta has Palma's Kitchen. That is a frozen lasagna. Whoa. That would feed many, many people. I have a family of six,

and we all get full on one of those lasagnas. So please, it is frozen, so you'd have to let that thaw before you cook that up. Is that the kind of thing that you could take to your mother-in-law's for Thanksgiving dinner? You'd be a hero. You would be a hero if you

arrived with that red box in your hand. Okay, well, you know. Just don't tell them it was a gift. Tell me you bought it, just so it just plays better. And, you know, I want to be sure that our American friends understand thoroughly that the color red on the box has nothing to do with socialism, just so you know. No, it has to do with the Canadian flag, of course,

the Maple Leaf, there you go. Well, of course, Rush Limbaugh used to call us Soviet Kanakistan. I always loved that. What an idiot. Yeah, there's a lot of idiots I've noticed lately. Well, we've elected a few, yeah. Yeah, we did. And we knew what we were, just in terms of this province,

Doug is as advertised. Nobody can be surprised by anything happening with the Doug Ford provincial government. Of course not. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I'm not going to get on my soapbox here, but, you know, I think as an electorate, you get what you deserve.

You know, back in the days in Ontario of Mike Harris, I mean, what did he do? The day he was elected, he started doing exactly what he said he was going to do for the entire campaign. And then everybody ran around with their hair on fire going, oh, Mike Harris, he's such an evil guy. I can't believe he's doing this. Oh, my God. So, you know, people should actually look into the issues a little more deeply and stop listening to stupid slogans. Palma Pasta, if anybody wants to try Palma Pasta,

and I highly recommend you do, go to palmapasta.com. They have four locations in Mississauga and Oakville. And that Palma's Kitchen I referred to, that's near Mavis and Burnhamthorpe. So go to palmapasta.com. You can also cater. And just so you know, Marie, Ted Wallachian only goes to Palma Pasta because they got the sauce right.

So you're in for a treat when you do cook that up. Well, you know, Ted is the most trustworthy guy I've ever met. Have you ever gone drinking with Ted? No, no. He looks like he'd be too good at it. I can't remember the name of the club. There's some Ukrainian, I get the name of the club there's some uh ukrainian i get the name wrong but it's like some ukrainian club but apparently you don't have to be of ukrainian

descent to get in this club you just have to like pretend you are or something and they seem to have a really good time jim slo tech and some others uh that are part of this club tell me it's a it's a rather fun time so get in there i'm uh you know this i hate to to blow my cover or anything but i'm really not much of a drinker oh that's okay no no worries because is it lisa that's getting the beer lisa was that my friend jenny jenny okay i gave jenny a different name but she's a one you know one a day kind of person yeah like moderation yeah vitamins And just a couple more quick thank yous here to other sponsors who are helping to fuel the Real Talk. Jimmy.

Jimmy, not a sponsor. Jimmy's a listener. But Jimmy got married and he used StickerU to get some stickers made up for his wedding. So I want to say again, congrats to Jimmy. Good luck with everything. Love is beautiful. Love is grand.

It worked for the queen. It's going to work for you. And also I want to say thank you to StickerU. That's StickerU.com. Anything you can stick, like labels, decals, tattoos, magnets, stickers, of course, in any size, shape, and quantity, you can get your own customized stickers at stickeru.com. And let's do this because then I want to start with you, Marie,

and I want to keep going. I got a lot of tunes lined up. But let's go back in a little time machine, if you don't mind. This is not a Marie McLachlan jam, but this is what was number one on the Billboard Hot 100 30 years ago today. We'll see if there's any chance you know this song? Nah, I haven't a clue. But I know what era it's from.

30 years ago today. This was number one. It's called The Look by Roxette. There you go. That's the era where when you got into a studio and made a record, it was called the Use Everything on the Rack era. Is that what it is? Yeah, so your snare drum sounds like gorillas beating on a drum in an elevator shaft on tinfoil.

Oh, man. I don't know what Roxette's up to these days, probably touring off of this jam right here but uh remember the time is brought to you by fast time watch and jewelry repair they've been doing quality watch and jewelry repairs for almost 40 years if you mention that you heard about them on toronto mic they'll give you 15 off any regular price watch battery installation so go to fasttimewatchrepair.com for a location near you and now i'll do us all a favor and bring uh bring down roxette and ask you marie i don't know i mean they might be listening you know and they might get sensitive about that

i think they could be listening i remember they're from scandinavia i just can't remember if they're like if they're danish or norwegian i feel like they might be listening. I remember they're from Scandinavia. I just can't remember if they're Danish or Norwegian. I feel like they might be Swedish. Well, you know, the Danes and the Norwegians and the Swedes get pretty touchy about that distinction. I know. And I know that the band A-Ha had the big hit take on me, and I think I can never remember them either.

Are they Norwegian? Are they Danish? Anyways, yeah, right. I got to get that right. It'd be like mixing us up with Americansicans and we would not like that at all so oh you know the the the when i toured in japan i don't mean to digress but when i toured in japan years ago i was very surprised that all of the japanese college students made a very clear distinction between canadian and american music and i went like really well you know what? What's the deal? Like, why do you think it's different? And this is the best phrase I ever heard.

And this university kid said, Canadian music? You know, a wind blows through it. Wind blows through it. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, I like that term. Because, you know, we exist in our country like a tick on the back end of a hound. We'll never conquer it.

It conquers us. It shapes who we are. We don't shape what it is. And when it decides it wants our fresh water, it's going to come and take it. Our country will come and take it back and eliminate us. That's right. So thank you, Fast Time. Now, when you were a teenager, you went to Central Tech, right?

Yeah, I went to art school there. And is this about when you started, like, I want to know how you, what got you into music? And tell me about those days playing coffee houses in the Yorkville area. Take us back, if you don't mind, to this era of your life. life well you know creativity is like a you know a cut gem it has many facets and they don't necessarily all predominate so visual arts began to be important to me very early in my life partly because i was interested in natural science and i belonged to the junior version of the federation of ontario naturalists so i was you, I was off in the woods, caves spelunking with a group of kids and Bob Bateman was our, you know, Robert Bateman, the famous painter was our, was our guy. So I saw Robert drawing animals on the blackboard when he was lecturing and went, wow. So, you know, it was, I, I had the, my big dream was to be a commercial artist illustrator,

you know, doing representations of leaping bass and heroic deer on the cover of Sports Afield magazine. I got to art school. I was sort of disabused of that notion that, you know, that was going to be a good career. However, I had just, you know, always been interested in music, always kind of played something in middle school. I played violin in the youth orchestra. And then one day my brother brought home a guitar and said don't touch it that was the beginning of trying to play the guitar and then there was a radio show in toronto called the randy ferris show late night and you know we used to listen to the radio when we were going to sleep quietly and randy played all of these amazing things like library of congress

recordings you know woody guthrie cisco houston sunny and brownie and of course very early on he played uh bob dylan so like the first time i ever heard a bob dylan song was on that on that show now pardon my ignorance but what station was this on oh it was an AM station. It was the same station. There was another show called Escape With Me by Burt Devitt where he used to play like Sounds of the Ocean and just narrate this fantastic little cove. It sounds like amazing. I don't know.

I just love these stories of old radio. It was great. It was wonderful radio. And it was hugely informative. So very early on anyway when I just started in art school, I started going to downtown clubs like the Boh was hoping to win the heart of this spectacular woman, girl really, in art school, who I thought would be cool with me learning to play the guitar. I think a lot of guys started out that way. But it kind of took on, it had a life of its own. So by the time I was in third year, I had started playing little coffee house gigs. And the first

one, I think I got $25 for the entire weekend, was at a club that had two names. It was called La Rive Gauche and The Left Bank. It was a bilingual name. And it was really tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny place. And that's in Yorkville? Yeah. Tell us about Yorkville back then, because the younger listeners, they think of Yorkville now as just like Commerce Central or whatever. Well, when I first started going over to Yorkville Avenue,

it was very European. The hippies thing hadn't happened. That actually didn't happen until I was out of art school. I hit the road riding freights, and basically the year before the summer of love, as they call it. But, you know, Yorkville at that point was, you know, a couple of little sidewalk cafes. There was, you know, a couple of little music clubs, but they were primarily, you know, folk.

And in the case of places like Malka and Yossos, it was like Eastern European folk music. You know, they were playing, you know, whatever that is in people's minds. Right. Ethnic, ethnic folk music. So it was a really calm little place. I used to just wander over there after school sometimes.

And, you know, I couldn't afford a coffee. So I just kind of walk up and down the street and say it felt very continental you know and i was trying to be like a cool art student kid so that was a place to go uh speaking of places to go uh gear joyce uh he actually writes for sportsnet and he's going to come on for the second time but uh he heard you were coming on and he wrote me a note. He says, first of all, he said he saw you back in the day. He loved that you had an old, what's it called? You had the old Canary restaurant. Oh, yeah.

On the cover of an early, was that your first or second album, the Canary restaurant cover? I think that was actually the cover of a weekend magazine for the Toronto Star that photograph was taken. I was wearing a fedora hat with a hat tally on it that I'd got from going to the Tall Ships Convention in New York in 76. Oh, very interesting.

Okay, interesting. And Gare wanted to ask you about the venues in the 70s because he writes about how he saw Rush at the Gasworks and Piccadilly Tube. He saw the Stones cover band Hot Rocks, and he's talking about all these places, and he would love to hear you, if you could talk about some of the places that you played that are gone now.

Any places you remember that you want to shout out that are no longer with us? Well, before I moved to New York in 1969, there was a little Canadian, Southern Ontario kind of club circuit. Probably the most important club was a place called Café Libou in Ottawa, which was on Sussex Drive, just around the corner from the big Chateau Laurier Hotel. And it was, I actually sat up with my manager, Bernie Finkelstein, And I actually sat up with my manager, Bernie Finkelstein,

and talked to Pierre Jeannot in that place when he was figuring out how the Canadian content regulations might work. I also remember being there for an all-night jam with Jorma Kuk and Jack Cassidy from, oh hell, you know, Jefferson Airplane. And members of what became Chilliwack. Then they were called the Collectors. All-night acid-fueled crazed jam session. It was a kind of social crazy hub, and the magus of all of it was an Ottawa poet called Bill Hawkins.

But anyway, that was an amazing place. There was the Black Swan in Stratford. There was really another important one was Bill Powell's club, the Ebony Night in Hamilton. And Bill went on to run the Hamilton Folk Festival for years. Post New York, when I started playing a Toronto club called the Riverboat, which was tiny, tiny, you know, like 90 seats with portholes. And this is in yorkville yeah it was on the street in yorkville and the riverboat was really an important place because all the action got done on the back stairs outside the dressing room everybody would hang out there and meet that's where uh i i actually played the two songs that

uh that tom rush ultimately recorded on his first Columbia album. I met him there and played the songs for him and he decided to record them. I'm pretty certain that the Riverboat Cafe there gets name-dropped by Neil Young, right? And I believe he name-drops that place. Yeah, Neil played there as a solo artist when the Buffalo Springfield broke up

and he couldn't figure out what to do with his life. He was doing a solo kind of folk thing. But I mean, I saw everybody there. I mean, like everybody thinks, oh, Bob Dylan invented folk rock. That's like total BS. It was invented by a guy named Jesse Colin Young. And Jesse Colin Young was the guy who wrote, you know, love is but a song we sing, fears the way we die.

You know, that one, one of the greatest songs, Get Together. So I saw Jerry Corbett and Colin Young in a band play in the Riverboat, and boy, it was fantastic. Saw Phil Oakes there, Sonny and Brownie, Tom Rush, you name it. So when I started playing in the Riverboat, Bernie Fiedler, who owned the place, So when I started playing the riverboat, Bernie Fiedler, who owned the place, was part of a collective of club owners in the United States. And they sort of block booked acts.

So, you know, like Joni started out on that circuit, for instance. And it would be like, you know, the Bitter End in New York, you know, Passime in Boston, the Great Southeast Music Hall in Atlanta, the Chessmate in Detroit, the Earl of Old Town in Chicago, you know, so there was a whole kind of circuit. And everybody that I know, John Prine, Steve Goodman, you know, or the more slightly before me artists like Joni, all kind of came out of that club circuit. So, you know, that was, I actually enjoyed those years very much because unlike shortly thereafter and since where you're like going from town to town to town to town to town and always like you know traveling and doing shows you'd set up there for like four or five days so you know i'd go i'd arrive in boston and there was actually people that i knew i'd go hang around with writers and

people like patrick sky or whoever and you swap songs. Go to Chicago, hang out with John Prine and Steve Goodman. Now chronologically though, so the True North with Bernie, you mentioned Bernie Finkelstein, that's after New York or is that? Yeah, Bernie actually called me up or I called him up. I can't remember for sure, but I think it was me that called him because I didn't have a phone. I think it was from the lobby of the Albert Hotel or something. I just called him up to see what was going on, what was he doing. And by this point, I'd been there for almost a year,

and Bernie said, you know, I'm starting a record label up here and i'm making a record gonna make a record with this guy named bruce coburn you know what do you want to you want to come back up and see if you can get something going put a bit in the background when we talk yeah so um you know i looked around i had actually some pretty good stuff going on i had signed a publishing deal with a grossman office. I was doing gigs in and around New York city. And, um, but I really wanted to make a record. I had a bunch of songs and, you know, they were like child song and honky red and 16 lanes, all these songs. So I wanted to, I really thought that, man, if I haven't made a record by the time I'm 22 years old, like that's the end of the world. Right. so the chance to come back and actually

do that was too much to resist so I came back to Canada and got an apartment in Kensington Market and that's the cover of the first record is a chicken cage on Kensington Market where I lived and uh kind of that's kind of where things got rolling. Do you have any good Bernie stories for me? Any, uh, one or two you want to drop on me? Oh my Lord. I'm afraid a lot of them would be kind of embarrassing for him, but you know, Bernie was, let's just say the best way to describe Bernie was, he was a great deal maker because people would do anything to get him out of their office. He would just go in and

browbeat and bully and yell and scream and you know guys like you know presidents of columbia records and stuff would go oh my god how do i get rid of this guy i'll just give him what he wants i just bernie came up on a recent episode of this podcast uh stephen fearing was in here from uh blackie and the rodeo kings yeah. Yeah, sure. I know Stephen well. Yeah. What other artists, like with True North Records, you mentioned, of course, Bruce Colburn, but what other artists were you with on there with Bernie? Well, I was on the label when Bernie was running it for quite a long time,

and it was the era where Rough Trade came up, for instance. John Mills Cockle and Syrinx came up for instance uh john mills cockle and syrinx came up luke gibson was an artist on the label uh from luke and the apostles of course kensington market uh quite a legendary toronto rock and roll band that kind of imploded in a in a haze of mda but it was a great band nonetheless. Of course, Barney Bentall came along. So a number of artists were on the label over the years, all really good people.

Carol in particular. I mean, she was pretty outrageous and very, very funny and snarky and very much Carol, but she put together and sang on one of my records. She put together one of the best vocal sections that I've ever worked with. They were such a gas. It was Sean Jackson,

who at the time was still married to Dom Triano. Sean was just beautiful. Kalina Phillips, who is just a fantastic singer, and Sharon Lee Williams. And those gals sang on my Into a Mystery album, along with Carol. And people still go like, you know, when they hear a song like Try Walking Away, they go, oh my god, is that Carol Pope singing with you? And my favorite memory of that record is I did a college concert shortly after it came out and a you know a young lady with overalls and a bit of attitude kind of came up and said is that carl pope on your record i said

yeah she said why in the world would be would she be singing with you why she's slumming it with Marie McLaughlin. Very nice. Now I'm going to play one of your songs. So that was a little Bruce, but now I'm going to play one of your songs. I wasn't paying attention. Which Bruce song were you playing? I had it very low

because I didn't want it to interfere with you, but Wondering Where the Lions Are is what I was playing in the back. See, I used to think that was a song about sniffing coke. Oh. Yeah, well, it's like you know wonder where the lines are oh yes i see i didn't i had no idea and i you know until i until he told me let's hear a little bit of this

and then i'll bring it down and we'll talk about it dusty old farmer out working your field, hanging down over your tractor wheel. The sun beating down turned the red paint to orange, and rusty old patches of steel. There's no farmer songs on that car radio, just cowboys, truck drivers and pain. Well, this is my way to say thanks for the meal. And I hope there's no shortage of rain. Straw hat and old dirty hankies. Mopping her face like a shoe. Farmer's Song.

Man, it sounds great. Now, Sean Hammond has the question, but we all have the same question. But what was the inspiration for Farmer's Song? And Sean specifically is asking if it was a person or a community. Tell me about the origin. Give me the origin story of Farmer's Song. I wrote it on the floor of my room in the Gorham Hotel in Manhattan while I was making the record. I was doing my second album, and this time we had been released on Epic Records in the States

as well as Columbia in Canada, true North Columbia. And I was working with a producer named Ed Freeman, who was the hot guy. He had just finished, you know, doing a really big hit record with Don McLean called American Pie oh yeah a little a little hit there yeah so you know Ed was also like one of the most major league

potheads I have ever met in all of my born days and so he had a flair for the unusual so you know you don't get much farther away from your food source than Manhattan. Right. And I had got to the point where, like, I'd eaten a lot of deli, and I was really craving something fresh. And, you know, I went to, like, a little food store, and it was, like, apples imprisoned in plastic. You know, and I started thinking, and then I realized my friend Barry,

who I knew in new york he'd barely been out of manhattan in his entire life and you know it just sort of sat down and out came this song which was just you know hello out there like i sort of i just wanted to tell you like i appreciate what you do and uh and the connection is real for me that's just really what it was about i was just trying to say thank you and i think they really farmers uh really appreciate it like i think you're you're probably uh a hero to farmers i have lost track of a number of people like you know old guys with hard hands and their children with equally hard hands or their relatives.

A lot of people have come up and thanked me for writing that song. And I still love singing it. I still think it's a really good song because it says thank you. And that's something that is not going around enough in the world. The cool thing, it was never actually meant to be a single it was the b side of the 45 that was released the the a side was this kind of four beat rocky thing called lose we or something it was a terrible song and uh there was a guy in the ottawa who was a country DJ named Ted Daigle. He happened to flip it over and went, oh, I like this. He played it.

Then he got a whole pile of phone calls. He played it some more and got more phone calls. Then he told some other radio guys about it. They played it and they got lots of phone calls. And basically within, you know, a matter of a couple of months, it was national on all the radio formats from country to rock. It was the most improbable thing in the world. And then there was 35,000 singles that got bought and put in jukeboxes. You know,

that story, I love that story because that's sort of how it was, you know, back in the day on radio where you could have these like these localized hits and then they would kind of spread almost virally like like you described like uh that's just fascinating how it can happen like one dj spins it people call in wanting to hear it and next thing you know it's a national hit yeah yeah it really was and uh it was a complete shock and a complete surprise. I'm sure that Loudon Wainwright probably felt the same way

when Dead Skunk in the Middle of the Road became a massive hit too. It's like totally improbable that people loved the song. Because I mean, I think people really love positive emotions. You know, it's one thing to write dark love songs that everyone can relate to and weep their eyes out over too much scotch, but sometimes people just like to feel good too. And I like that, like that song is just well-crafted piece of music as opposed to relying on like gimmicks of the era and different effects, et cetera.

You mean Farmer Sock? Right, yeah. Oh, that's a hilarious observation because you know ed freeman being the major league pothead that he was had all kinds of production ideas like i sang that whole vocal lying on my back on the studio floor with the microphone over my head because he thought that it would make my voice sound cooler and you know he had me yodeling through harmonicas as backing tracks like multi-layered about 10 10 tracks of harmonica yodeling and then you know he had me yodeling through harmonicas as backing tracks like multi-layered about 10 10 tracks of harmonica yodeling and then you know playing the treadle organ from a church

all kinds of weird stuff on there well see what do i know obviously i'm not a musician but uh you know a lot you got you got kids that's true that's true so shout out to splash and boots currently the favorites amongst with my three-year-old and five-year-old. So shout out to Splashin' Boots, who are managed by Jake Gold, by the way, who managed the Tragically Hip. He now manages, well, amongst other bands, he's managing Splashin' Boots, which were a big hit with the Toddler set, like the Raffy of 2019, we'll call them that. call them that. Obviously, I could play a lot of your songs, and you could spend several hours with me today, but you probably have other things to do, so I'm just going to cherry pick some songs if that's okay, but I want to play another Marie song and ask you about it. I walked down the Kensington market Bought me a fish to fry I went to the silver dollar Looked a stranger in the eye a friend of mine says that he don't think this

town's so out of sight but he's got shades all around his soul and he thinks he's seen the light singing. Don't you want to keep on moving? Don't you want to get undone? Don't you want to change from losing? Don't you want to have some fun? Well, that's a Toronto jam right there. You talk about Kensington Market, the Silver Dollar, Nathan Phillips Square. Tell me about Down by the Henry Moore. Well, behind, I guess, the motivation behind that song,

I know this sounds a bit highfalutin, but there was a really kind of nascent cultural nationalism that was beginning to emerge at the time that I wrote it. Like a real kind of fierce, you know, like what we do is just as good as what anybody else does. And, you know, if you're complaining about there not being any action, you know, you don't have to go somewhere else to find it. Go make some.

So there was kind of like a slight element of scolding, I suppose, in the song. It's a kind of really kick-arse Toronto travelogue as well. It's just basically like walking around at night and checking out the energy. You know, it's the six before there was Drake. Right. But I think, you know, the thing that's most at the root of it for me was that feeling like of just, you know, let's kick it up a notch and be who we are and not be apologetic for it.

Be who we are and not be apologetic for it. I actually played this for your wife when she was on this podcast. And for those who don't know, maybe I should tell them that your wife is Denise Donlan. Did you know that, Marie? You know, she's always used an alias when we've been at home. And I was going to, I have a little yeah it's okay maybe uh if people want to hear the clips i have of denise donlan talking to the tragically hit back in the day uh go find the episode i did with her it was fantastic but uh she of course has long time with much music and then then she moved on to Sony and done a bunch of really cool stuff.

When did you meet Denise? I'm turning the channels for a bit, then I'll come back to the music. Well, I met Denise socially and casually because I did a couple of interviews with her, and I also saw her around at various clubs and music events and such and I thought, well, she's really smart and she's really cool and in a kind of world of slightly edgy, psychophantic people, she had a real

aura of solidity about her and she was very different and I've always been very attracted to non-standard people. Women in particular. Sure. And then one day I was her boss at the time. The guy who I'm not apologetic to say actually was the engineer, the idea behind what became Much Music, John Martin. Yes.

John was a good friend of mine, and I was over at his place. He had a flat on Queen Street, and we were having a beverage, and I happened to just mention to John, that young lady that works for you, she's fantastic, and I really keep an eye on her. I think she's really, you know, going places. And I did, I did a real kind of sort of commercial and he disappeared for a few minutes. And then 10 minutes later or 15 minutes later, she walked in the door. So John was the beard for our introduction. He was Cupid. And then we fell like deeply in like, because, you know, I'd had enough experience by that point

that I was pretty certain that whoever I might possibly fall in love with next, I better really like them first, and I better really know who they are first. Which is a smart move. Very wise. Well, you know, it wasn't an audition, but if it was, she passed it with flying colors. And I was very concerned that I would pass one for her as well.

It took a while, but, you know, her mother said, don't ever marry a musician. But then she found out I was a pilot and I was Scottish and her mother loved Scottish pilots. That sealed the deal. That's cool. I'll ask you later about the piloting, which is amazing. But how long have you been with Denise? Well, we have a 27-year-old son who's a really accomplished guy I'm immensely proud of, button-busting proud.

Denise and I started dating in 1987 while I was doing the radio show and just shortly after I made that television thing with the float plane floating over Canada. And we lived in sin for a period of time and then we fell deeply in real estate and then after that we got married. And that radio show that you alluded to there, was that Swinging on a Star?

Yeah, that's right. And that's CBC Radio and then Floating right and that's a cbc radio and then floating over canada just we'll touch on this now and then we'll come back to the music how's that but uh when when and why did you get a pilot's license like that's pretty cool not every musician can fly their own plane well circling back to i mean there's two reasons circling back no three sorry but circling back to the uk i, our heroes were Spitfire pilots and Hurricane pilots and Lancaster pilots and, you know, what saved our little culture from, you know,

the Hun was the Air Force. So that was deeply in my DNA. Also, I love sculpture. I love designs. And I find that anything that actually has to cooperate in the in the physical sense with the environment in order to do what it does is always beautiful whether it's a bird or a butterfly or an airplane or a yacht for that matter right so i i love the look especially the look of 1930s vintage airplanes i always just loved the way they looked and i love machinery

i love science so i love weather i love navigation science i love all of these elements of the things and all of that's involved in aviation item number three i wanted to do something that few people can do and i wanted to do it really well and i wanted to do it in ways that few people who do it can do it so it was natural for me to want to keep improving my skills and ratings and such over the years and it I began to take flying lessons the minute that I had enough disposable income to be able to go and do it. Right it's a pricey endeavor right because you gotta. Well at the time I started it wasn't because the government of Canada actually would give you a 100% tax break for a flying license. And that included everything. You know, your dual and solo time, aircraft rentals, books, ground school, the whole deal.

And the reason was that there was a scramble during World War II to get enough cannon fodder to go fight the war. They were short of pilots very very quickly and had to develop the united empire flight training program to fill that void so they wanted to have a trained uh cadre of civil pilots that could easily be transported either as pilot instructors or combat pilots in the military so you, you know, for a long time, you could actually, first they gave you money to go learn to fly, but then they stopped doing that. And then they gave you the tax break. Now they still give you the tax break, but you actually don't get it until you get a job in aviation. Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. But you, you theoretically got a job in aviation because

floating over Canada, that's a job in aviation sort of kind of maybe well I flew my own tours um for several tours uh I also flew uh you know for vacations down to the Caribbean and uh yes floating over Canada was actually it was a make work project to support the flight what I really wanted to do was circumnavigate canada in a lumpy old float plane and just do that so i i it's a very it would have been a very expensive proposition to go and do that so i found a way to pay for it is it ed robertson who also does he fly from the bare naked ladies uh maybe i'm conflating stories but i think he yeah ed uh ed bought a cessna 206 on floats but um my understanding is that uh is that he doesn't fly anymore. I think he had an incident with it up near Algonquin Park.

Tom Cochran also had a similar trajectory, but he had two incidents with his airplane, and now as I understand it, he doesn't fly anymore. Hopefully you haven't had any incidents. stand it. He doesn't fly anymore. Hopefully you haven't had any incidents. No, I flew many, many years with great success. Never rolled an airplane into a ball. Unfortunately, some doctors attempted to kill me a few years back and I lost my medical. I had open heart surgery as a result of a botched medical intervention. And how are you today? You look good.

Healthy as a hog. Good to hear. I got patched up real good. Thank you very much, University Health Sciences Network. Yeah, no, good to hear. And was this like, this was negligence on the part of some doctor? I don't know how much you want to share. Well, I had to have a particular invasive diagnostic test

to see whether or not there was any coronary artery disease developing. It's called an angiogram. And when they did the angiogram, they tore my coronary artery. And they're not supposed to do that? No. That's a very bad thing, and it's potentially very fatal very quickly. I'm glad they were able to fix that well i literally went out of a karate dojo after like a heavy duty like hour and a half workout

like full bar karate workout to do this test and wound up in a gurney and open heart surgery by that evening wow wow okay on that note we're going to come back because there's a question from basement dweller that's how he signs off, and he wants to know, what was the inspiration for your great track If the Wind Could Blow My Troubles Away? And I'll play, I loaded a bit of that up. Let me play it while we talk about it then, since it's a very good question.

Pardon the potato quality of the recording here. washed away in the driving rain if the wind could blow my troubles away blow my troubles away if the wind could blow my troubles away tear the sadness from my face look in the mirror i wouldn't see a trace If the wind could blow my troubles away Blow my troubles away What inspired this jam? Heiku poetry. Heiku poetry. The core of the song was that very simple idea,

which if you think of yourself standing on a cliff in Newfoundland and a strong wind, and suddenly you transmute into a seagull and leave the earth, the idea was just simply in that core. If the wind could blow my troubles away, I'd stand on a hurricane. It wasn't strictly formed as a haiku, but it was that kind of thought. And then the rest of it was expanding on that idea. And so, when it was all finished, it eventually really saw its interpretation, and I saw this interpretation once it was finished myself, as a song for people who are aspiring to overcome great difficulty. And it became the theme song for the International Year of Disabled Persons

for that reason. Amazing. It's got that sweeping epic feel to it. That's Bob Ezrin. Bob, okay, so Basement Dweller had a part two here, which is he wants to know what it was like working with Bob Ezrin. On the Storm Warning album,

and additionally, he just wants to say a very belated kudos to you, Murray, for the excellent guitar work on the same, sorry, on the quite bluesy The Modern Age album. So that's from one of your big fans, but can you tell me what it was like working with Bob Ezrin? Well, it was mercurial. Bob has certainly calmed down now.

He's quite the respectable burger now, but then he was the enfant terrible of rock and roll. You know, he was pretty fresh from doing Pink Floyd's The Wall and was notorious as the producer of Alice Cooper and was well ensconced. and was notorious as the producer of Alice Cooper, and was well ensconced. Bob had a lot of interesting ideas,

and some of them involved kind of terrifying people into submission. But I'd lived with the secretary treasurer of the Bag of Bonds Motorcycle Club, for crying out loud. I'm not that easy to intimidate. treasurer the bag of bonds motorcycle club for crying out loud i'm not that easy to intimidate so in a good natured way we kind of butted heads quite a bit um one day to try and get under my skin uh he made the mistake of insulting my girlfriend that didn't go very well. What did you do? I don't think I'll go any farther into it than that. But it all ended amicably enough, I think. The project overall was a little bit disappointing for me because other than that track that you played,

I feel like I didn't bring a lot to the table um i think i showed up um with a dearth of songs of good songs and uh so the album is it's a bit of a disappointment to me also i really surrendered to the process because this you know i was at a thing once and you know this subject to this record came up and rick emmett was in the crowd and he said nair all right what the hell were you thinking well it's just because you were kind of primarily known as like kind of a folk guy like folk rock and then this album if i'm correct this is a it's a it's a hard harder rock sound uh emanating i was coming off of three albums in a row

that were like on the boulevard into a mystery. And what was the other one anyway? Well, there's Whispering Rain. So there was like a sort of a trajectory of, you know, they were kind of like, you know, harder to folk rock records. And this one was like straight, you know, humongous. You know, it was Bob Ezrin writ large.

Right. And I wasn't comfortable really wearing that coat. Kim, by the way, you mentioned Whispering Rain. So Kim doesn't have a question. She just wants to say that, wants me to tell you that she loves Whispering Rain. So it wasn't even loves, it was the heart symbol. So I just translated that into loves, but she i wasn't even loves it was the heart symbol so i

just translated that into loves but she hearts whispering rain uh emojis emojis are everywhere now well you know that that was one of the greatest experiences of my life for a variety of reasons but the principal reason was i got to work with the jordan air. And like for me, cause I, I grew up listening to radio in the 1950s. So like Patsy Klein, Ricky Nelson, Elvis Presley, yeah. On all of those records is that backup vocal section.

That's really sweet. You know, Ooh, don't be cruel. Ooh, those guys, right? Right.

So suddenly there I was at Woodland studios in Nashville, listening to those same voices come out of the speakers on my record. And as they say in the Yiddish, I nearly plotzed. It was just incredibly exciting to do that. Dale Cadot, who's a listener of the program, tells me that he saw you at University of Waterloo in 1976. And he missed you. That's Waterloo in 1976, and he missed you. That's what UWO means, right?

He wrote UWO, and I think that's University of Waterloo. Yes, yes. Okay, let's go with that. You played with the University of Waterloo in 76? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Of course, yeah. He missed you last time you were in British Columbia. Dale lives in British Columbia.

He missed you last time you were there, and it looks like he has to miss you again because you're playing Chilliwack the day that he has to fly to Toronto. So what's his question here? He saw you sing Honky Red on Heart and Lauren's show in the early 70s, and he wonders where that song ranks on your list of favorites to sing Honky Red. Interestingly enough, that song has just had a second life because it's been recorded and it's a concert presentation number by a big American rock and roll band called Widespread Panic.

And they've turned it into like a 18-minute rock jam with lots of, it's kind of like The Grateful Dead meets The Allman Brothers. It's not necessarily in my repertoire because, you know, it wasn't like, it's not a song, first of all, people expect me to play that if I, you know, if I don't play it, I wouldn't get killed, in other words. And I've got a lot of newer stuff in my repertoire that I like to play. I also found that there was a period of time where when I was playing that song,

a lot of people kind of took the take on it, that it was an endorsement of drinking and getting blasted. And it's not about that at all. You know, it's about a street character who has basically fallen on really, really hard times. He's a war vet. And all the song is saying is that, you know, once he's got what he needs, once he's got his alcohol, he doesn't care whether you walk or crawl. But when he is dry, he will basically do anything to get a drink. So it's not a real happy song. No.

But there was this period, as I said, where people were showing up with screw top jars at maritime concerts and going, yeah, drink. And so I thought maybe I missed the point here. Yeah. Sometimes if you're too smart or subtle, people take it straight. I see this all the time with satire,

for example. You'll satirize something and then a certain crowd will think you're playing it straight. They get it backwards, bass-ackwards. Well, the chorus is seductive in that sense because a lot of people just hear the choruses

and songs or they hear the repetitive line and that's what the song is for and they don't hear the body of it. And Ronnie Hawkins loved that song. Chris Christopherson loved that song. But I think that's what happened. They all heard that chorus. When I need a drink, I'm stains on a sink. I'm pleased and thank you, man.

But when I got a head full of honky red, I don't give a good goddamn. That's the thing that's stuck in their heads. Right, right. David Lackey, he says you're one of his all-time favorites. So congrats on that, Murray. You're one of David's all-time favorites. He wants to know what inspired the formation of the silver tractors.

And then he actually asks if you enjoyed the Hard Rock Town period after being a folk artist, but you did touch on that already. But what inspired the formation of the Silver Tractors? Well, slowly but surely, as we made more records, the band formation began to develop almost itself. I mean, first of all, I worked with a bass player, Dennis Pendrith, enormously, wonderfully talented guy. And then along came Ben Mink,

who I sought out to work on the record that Down by the Henry Moore was on. At that point in time, I was using a variety of drummers or different folks were coming in. And then Gene Martinick had produced a lot of records for Bruce, and I knew Gene from Kensington Market. He was a stellar guitar player, a wonderful, wonderful guy. So Gene started playing on some of the records. Then one day I'm sitting in the office, and in walks this guy,

this blonde-haired guy, says, I want to play drums in your band. I said, well, I don't have a band. And he said, more or less, well, you do now. And that was Joran Andersen, who was fresh out of a band called Flood. So suddenly there was a drummer and a bass player and a guitar player and me on guitar. And, you know, so the thing was starting to take shape. And then we made the On the Boulevard record,

which was kind of everybody brought together. And it was a studio jam, really. And that's why it's so, it's so fresh. And, and really, you you know for me it was a really great great experience it was just going in and letting loose and playing and so the band really coalesced so that the first gig that we did was maple leaf gardens at uh at gordon lightfoot's olympic benefit that he put on that was the first time the band played live. And I don't think anybody was expecting it to be like it was

because it was really loud. Wow. Did you ever have the pleasure of meeting Nana Muscuri in all of your travels? No, but I love her glasses. Yes, everybody remarks on the trademark Nana Muscuri glasses. Maybe she doesn't need them at all. Maybe it's just a hustle or something.

I don't know. No, she's still performing. She's still active. I think she's in her mid-80s now, but she's still out there. And I only bring up Nana. Oh, sorry. You were going to say something? I was just going to say, you know, Nana Muscuri is great,

but who I really loved was Melina Mercuri, the actress. Okay, yeah. I got to Google her later. I'm not too sure off the top of my head. Zorba the Greek. Okay, yeah, I gotta Google her later. I'm not too sure off the top of my head. Zorba the Greek. Okay, yes, yes. She's the one who gives the speech to the guy, a musician who's locked himself in the closet because somebody's convinced him he's not really

a musician because he can't read music. She says, do the birds need to read music? You know, it's a great speech. Excellent. I will look on YouTube for that one after this recording. I'm playing Nana Muscuri because this song is called La Tournesol. And I like to play it when I just briefly chat with you here about Camp Tournesol. Any children, if you have a child from 4 to 14 years of age,

you should consider sending them to Camp Tournesol. They're the biggest French camps in the GTA. If you want to watch your child's French skills blossom over the summer, Camp Tournesol. You go to campt.ca to see the overnight programs and day camps available. There's 15 campuses across the GTA. It doesn't matter if your child is Francophone, French Immersion, or French Experience. And coincidentally, just this morning, I was registering my third born for French immersion. Like, that coincidentally happened this morning.

So I highly encourage... I don't know, Murray, if your child, your son, does he speak French? I'm here, I'm shaming you many decades later here for not putting him in French immersion. No, he doesn't. He's not bilingual. But I couldn't help but noticing that, you know, en anglais, dans le sang, sunflower.

Oui. Oui. But your French is pretty good there. Yeah. That's pretty good. I have a smidgen of Quebecois French. It's not real French. That's not Parisian.

Instead of saying shut your mouth, I say ferme ta gueule. It's not real French. That's not Parisian. Instead of saying shut your mouth, I say fin d'agole. I just know that you say these religious terms for swear words, like tabernak. Yeah, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on this podcast. I hear that's very rude. Apparently, you wouldn't be allowed to say it in Three Rivers. Right.

In fact, I probably shouldn't be saying it when I talk about Camp Ternussel, but I just did. in fact, I probably shouldn't be saying it when I talk about Camp Ternasol, but I just did. So campt.ca, when you do register your child for a camp at Camp Ternasol, use the promo code Mike2019, and you'll get $20 off your first order. So Mike2019 is the promo code, campt.ca is the website. And just before, there's something, I'm so glad you're here, because there's something I've always wanted to ask about, and you're going to help me here. That's coming up right next. I just want to thank Brian Gerstein from PSR Brokerage. He's a real estate agent. He's been telling us for the last couple of months about the Galleria Mall redevelopment and how PSR has exclusive rights with that. If you want to talk to Brian about that and get on the list to find out what's new and when they become available,

please call Brian at 416-873-0292. He's at propertyinthesix.com. And here's the jam I've been wanting to play and ask you about because I know you were involved. Oh, his tears are not enough. You got it. I legit love this song. Straight up, not even ironically. I dig it. We'll just hear a little bit and then I'm going to...

That's a different Marie. Surname Marie. Right from the moment that we start So of course, this is Tears Are Not Enough by the Northern Lights, you called yourself. And you are, you're involved. Yeah, I was invited to take part in that.

It was a Brian Adams, David Foster thing. Brian Adams, I think, wrote the song with, I think Jim Valance was involved in it too. I'm not sure about that, though. And, you know, that was involved in it, too. I'm not sure about that, though. Supposedly, check your egos at the door. Well, as much as that's possible, I guess that happened. It was a nice day. It was kind of a nice hang.

Who asked you? Who called you up? Did somebody call you up and say, hey, we're doing this thing. Proceeds are going to this good cause. We'd like you to be involved. And then, like, how did that go down? Who called me about it was my managers. Who called them about it, I guess, would have been David Foster or probably not Brian.

Maybe Bruce Allen or someone like that. I'm not really sure. But, you know, they rounded up a lot of people. So they would have called Elliot Roberts about Joni and Neil. They would have gone through channels. But because it was, you know, Brian Adams and David Foster, it would have been a little easier to get through the channels, I expect. And there was a precedent for that kind of thing at the time as well, because, you know, Bob Geldof had done his big thing in Britain as well. Yeah, he did. Well, OK, if I think what came before this, I believe, is USA for Africa, right? They did We Are the World that came before this. was putting their hands in the air and waving synonymously and singing big songs on behalf of bringing relief to various parts of the world. Yes, Do They Know It's Christmas, that was the big one from Band-Aid,

Bob Geldof's one. You know, I mean, in retrospect, I think it was a nice thing. It made everybody feel good, I think, to do it, and that they were contributing in some way to making the world a better place. Tactically and politically, if you read about the results of all of those things, sometimes all you really did was enrich warlords who sold all the stuff in the black market. You know, it isn't necessarily the best thing to throw money at those problems. Sometimes it's better to put boots on the ground and put some infrastructure in and you know some means of getting things from point a to point b without them being robbed or

stolen or sold on the black market no it's a great point uh yeah very good i don't mean to be a damper it's but you know the world is the world is a real place i I mean, there aren't just Somali pirates because they like being pirates. Right. Right. So, you're on that. Another show you appeared on that I loved as a child is Sharon, Lois, and Brom, right?

You appeared on that. Yeah. Yeah, that was an interesting period of time. I was a Sandlot superstar. I did the Elephant Show and Sesame Street around the same time. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Is it the

Farmer's Song that you'd play on those shows? I definitely played Farmer's Song on the Elephant Show, yeah, because we had to do it on a flat bed full of hay bales. Interestingly enough, after that show was finished, I drove the elephant home. So,

I'm trying to remember, like, can you remind me, like, the elephant was drivable? Like, I don't have a memory of the elephant. Once the elephant got out of the suit and emerged in a pink leotard, it turned out to be Danny Gallivan's daughter, the guy who called the

Canadiens games, yeah. I just had Damien Cox on the show earlier this week, and we were talking about Bob Cole's retirement, because I am of an age where Bob Cole is the man. And of course, if I were a little older, people would argue about talking about Danny Gallivan or whatever, but I missed Danny Gallivan, and he was a Montreal guy anyways. But that's an amazing fun fact. I love that stuff.

Isn't that cool? Yeah. Love it. So I drove the elephant home. Okay. Because I'm trying to, I was thinking in my head like the elephant was a car or something.

I'm like, Murray's driving the elephant home. What did I miss? Like, I know I was very young but thank you for, thank you for. As far as doing Sesame Street

was concerned, I think other people have had this happen but it doesn't take very long before you're actually talking to the puppet. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, you forget there's somebody actually. Right.

And you end up, you know, I'm talking to Basil the Bear. I'm not talking to some guy in a black leotard underneath. That's Basil I'm talking to. So I was arbitrating a dispute over a sandwich between two of the characters and teaching them how to share and be nice. Oh, very good. Which was a real big stretch for me.

Speaking of Canadian musicians who appeared on Sesame Street, that was the show that raised me. I think Sesame Street raised me. And Buffy St. Marie was a... She had a big arc, or I don't know what you call it, but she had many multiple Sesame Street appearances.

Oh, yeah. She was a regular player on the new york uh yeah the uh yes the uh the uh we got the flagship i guess the u.s one but i always remember the buffy saint marie uh episodes of sesame street well yeah we had a canadian version because we felt it was important to teach canadian kids not just to be nice but to be nicer nicer. That's right. That's right. And also, because I learned a lot of Spanish from this Sesame Street, because it was American and they were doing Spanish. So we needed to, like, put the French in there. I think that's... Hola, senor.

¿Dónde es de Marihuana? Corado. I think as a kid, I learned more Spanish than French because of Sesame Street. Me gustaría café con leche para dos, por favor. Very good. Very good. Very good. A couple of final things. I know you've been

very generous with your time and I've been hogging it all here, but, you know, I'm curious minds. I need to know these things. In, what is it here?

You wrote a book, The Ballad of Marie McLaughlin, Getting Out of Here Alive. Yeah. Well, it was actually, yeah, the Getting Out of Here Alive was the title of that.

Yeah. What do you want to know? I just want the people to know that you wrote a book. Yeah. Well, it was actually, yeah, the Getting Out of Here Alive was the title of that. Yeah. What do you want to know? I just want the people to know that you wrote a book. skulls bart did a lot of the cover uh work it's a great name for true north yeah yeah bart was he's a good artist and he's a very good artist and he did a lot of the graphics work for true north but bart being an irascible curmudgeonly guy used to just spout aphorisms truisms and one of them you know basically the shape of it was uh the purpose of life is not to turn into somebody when you're 80 years old that you would have hated when you were 15. Right. So the idea of the title, Getting Out of Here Alive, means basically being comfortable with who you are and what you've done by the time you draw your mortal breath. Can you tell me a little bit about Lunch at Allen's?

I could tell you about Lunch at Allen's all day. All right, let's record that. Here's the skinny in one sentence with Lunch at Allen's. You know, your friends are the family you choose. That's who they are to me. They're my tribe. They're my family. They're my go-to. they're my dearest friends and uh they're a joy to work with they're all grown-up talented

wonderful people and it started out of like out of love and it started this is tied to your heart your heart condition right is it related to that is it uh it uh after the doctors tried to kill me as i mentioned before and in the aftermath of the open heart surgery to repair the damage. Right. Ian Thomas, who's a member, well known to Canadians. And Tom Cochran, who didn't wind up in the band, but also Mark Jordan, showed up at the hospital. It was just before Christmas and they came to sing me Christmas carols and cheer me up. They turned the whole ward into a Frank Capra movie.

I mean, literally Filipino nurses and Santa hats and people leaning in the door. It's a wonderful life. And me sitting in bed, you know, trying to sing along, bawling my eyes out, you know, cause I'm on morphine and I'm really moved. So Lunch at Allen's spawned out of my calling a thank you lunch. So Ian and Mark came and then half the planet crashed it you know jim cuddy and greg keeler and cocker everybody sort of came to this lunch at alan's restaurant on the danforth and lunch kind of turned into dinner and at one point i had my arm around you and i just

you know i was kind of going you know we have to do something together. It would be fantastic. So anyway, the opportunity came up. Got an opportunity to do a call actually from an agent who said, we're doing six theater chains. We want to do a songwriters on stage thing. Will you do it? And I said, well, who would I have to do it with? Because I hate those things.

Remember the actor's joke? You know, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, my line. Right, right, right. Songwriters things are like that you know song song song yeah whatever my song okay so i didn't you know i said who do i have to do it with and they said anybody you want i went oh okay so i called up ian said you know how would you like to get out of the studio and go on stage and that's how it that was how it began and when we were looking for a name mark jordan came up with the name he just said well it all started in ella's restaurant let's call it lunch at allen's we could have called it lunch became dinner in allen's but that was too long very cool

very cool and all thanks to your bypass surgery your heart bypass surgery yeah so some good things come out of some horrible events, right? There's a lot. I know it's, you're right. There's a lot of really positive stuff that came out of that experience. And, you know, it's a long list of good stuff. I actually had a conversation at dinner with Conrad Black, of all people, about that. Because it changes the nature of your relationships with people.

I was watching, like many people, I was watching the cathedral in Paris, Notre Dame. I was watching it burn. Like it was on fire. And I was thinking back to when, you know, my girlfriend at the time, but my wife now, when we went and we saw it and I was looking at the pictures, I was kind of sad.

Like all that history, you know, whatever, almost 800 years or whatever. And then somebody on my blog actually pointed out, like they restore and rebuild which they will do uh it's basically an opportunity for people to get interested in that art that lost art of craftsmanship and and and then all of a sudden i'm thinking this good is going to come out of this very like sad event of the burning down of this old cathedral like and I'm thinking, yes, there's always something good that could be taken from everything in life, even the things that seem to be just sad and desperate

and whatever, horrible. There's always something good you can take out of that. Lunch at Allen's. Yeah, on the other side of that equation, if the library in Alexandria hadn't burned, we never would have had the Dark Ages. That's the other side, I think. Your glasses have so, you we never would have had the Dark Ages. I'd say, yeah, there's something. Your glasses have so, you know,

sometimes it works the other way. That's right. That's right. Last question from the masses here. This is a guy who calls himself Rock Golf. Rock Golf wants to know, and I'm going to read it. What's the deal with the Barenaked Ladies song

Straw Hat and Old Dirty Hank? A pun off a Lion and Farmer song. And he wants to know, did you get a writing credit? And I can't tell if he's being funny or not, but I'll let you reply to Rock Golf. Well, they were doing like a kind of blow smoke up your kilt kind of fun thing, which they've always done.

And actually, Stephen Page and Ed Robertson kilt you know kind of fun thing which they you know they've always done yeah and actually uh steven page and ed robertson talked to me and and actually ascertained that it was cool which of course it was i mean i think it's sort of the greatest compliment in the world when people make fun of you in a good natured way you know it's i mean what kind of a person would i be if i called up ed ro Ed Robertson and Steven Page and said, what do you guys think you're doing? You're messing around with my thing. That would be not the person that I am.

Well, I always think, again, as a kid, I was a big Weird Al Yankovic fan. Oh, I love Weird Al. Yeah, I still am a fan, but I thought I'd freeze it as a kid. Hey, wait a minute, wait a minute. I got to jump in. Weasel Stomping Day, my favorite song of all time.

Is that your favorite song of all time? Oh, yeah. But sometimes he'll talk about how it's his rule to ask an artist before he'll parody a song. Oh, sure. Yeah, because you'd get sued. I can't remember. I actually read somewhere like he doesn't need, I think he said he doesn't need this permission, but this is his rule. Like apparently if you, as long as you credit and you.

That's iffy because the thing he did with michael jackson with eat it yeah he was appropriating the whole image and the video and the song and the tracking and you know he it was it was more than a parody it was more than parody at that point and he got permission from michael jackson to do that i know that he did not i think was i'm sure it was prince like Like he wanted to cover Prince Purple Rain or something. And Prince said no. And I always thought like that to me is a great like honored tribute kind of fun thing. Similar to what the Barenaked Ladies are doing here.

Like I can't imagine an artist like saying no, I don't want you to parody this song. I don't know. Maybe it's because I've never written a quality song. I don't know. I couldn't guess what would it's because I've never written a quality song. I don't know. I couldn't guess what would be in Prince's head. I know he was a fantastically talented writer, dancer, guitar player, you name it, everything, I'm sure. Musically, not totally my cup of tea.

I mean, I'm more of a Sly and the Family Stone kind of guy if I'm going to go funk or, you know, make that aberration of rock. If he was, you know, if he got his back up about the idea of his songs being parodied, or maybe he just didn't want to do it. Maybe he just wanted to keep complete control over his image or something. Order of Canada.

Tell me what it was like when you found out that you were getting the Order of Canada. Well, it was not only great to find out that it was going to happen. It was a mystery as to why, because you always think, huh? They must have the wrong guy. At that time, it was, you know, I wouldn't call it like like a tough but it was a bit of a rough patch in in my life and it was a it was a really good vindication that what you were doing meant something and then of course when it was time for the dinner I'm sitting at a dinner table and on one side of me is OB Phelps the guy who diverted the flight training money to start the snowbirds.

And on the other side of me is Flora McDonald, who was one of my favorite flinty woman politicians of all time. So what a great dinner. It's fabulous. Denise also has an Order of Canada, right? Yeah, she got pinned by Adrian Clarkson. I was a rainitician guy. Right, rainnotician.

Now, that makes you quite the power couple in this country. We clink when we hug, yeah. I was asking, was it Mark Breslin was in, and he just got the Order of Canada, like, really recently. Yeah, it's quite the ordeal you go through, I guess, with the Order of Canada, but quite the honour. Well, you know, the Governor General's Performing Arts Awards was a really big deal, uh, with the order of Canada, but quite the honor. Well, the, you know, the governor general's performing arts awards was a really big deal too this past May.

And that was like, that was a three day blast in Ottawa. I mean, so they're very similar. Yeah. You, you spend like three days, like at an affair of state, you know, going, what do I wear? Right. What have I got? Murray, this has been amazing.

I'm so glad you paid a visit and fielded all my, hopefully not too annoying questions over the last 90 minutes. It's been a complete joy. Well, I was thinking of storming off and a huff at a couple of points, but no. But I hear you're bringing that lasagna to an event, right? Some kind of an Easter thing? It'll be like Easter dinner at my mother-in-law's. It'll be right there.

It's very cold, actually. It's frozen. It's frozen my hand. Yeah, it's frozen solid. Absolutely. Again, to remind people, there might not be any tickets left. The Periscope viewers might have scooped up the last 10 tickets. But Jan Arden headlines, Voices That Care, April 25th

at Glenn Gould Studio. And as I play you off, I need to tell the world that you have 23 Juno nominations and 10 wins. That's amazing. 11? When did the 11th come in? I need to update

my files. Recently. I needed an extra one. One? Oh, yeah. They could get 10 rings and then the 11th. I think that was the Pocket Rocket. Is it the Pocket Rocket? Anyway, I think he's got 11 Stanley Cup rings.

Oh, Ray Richard. Right. The Pocket Rocket. What a name to live with. It's so suggestive. That's right. The other one. And that brings us to the end of our 450 second show.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Now, Murray, do you bother with any of the social media nonsense? Are you on Twitter? No. So you're bother with any of the social media nonsense? Are you on Twitter? No. So you're not on any of these social media things? No, I'm not. I don't tweet.

I don't Facebook. And I don't whatever it is, I don't do it. I don't. I just don't. So you can't follow Murray on Twitter. Don't try to find him there. He's not. It's a parody account.

If you find it, it's not really him. Our friends. For the dinosaurs, I do have a website, though. Okay. Tell us the website. Is it? It's a parody account. If you find it, it's not really him. Our friends. For the dinosaurs, I do have a website, though. Okay, tell us the website. It's really complicated. It's murraymclaughlin.com. Well, it is complicated because they're going to have to figure out how to spell McLaughlin. That'll be the challenge.

That's true, yeah. Google that and then copy and paste. Okay. And our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Propertyinthesix.com is at Raptor's Devotee. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair is at Fast Time WJR. Camp Turnasol is at Camp Turnasol.

And Sticker U is at Sticker U. See you all next week. It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears. And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you, but I'm a much better man for having known you. Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow won't stay today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and gray.

Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day. But I wonder who. Yeah, I wonder who. Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of gray. Because I know that's true. Yes, I do. I know it's true. Yeah.

I know it's true. How about you?