Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Neil Osborne from 54-40: Toronto Mike'd #1308

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

In this 1308th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with 54-40's Neil Osborne about the ongoing history of the band, their new single "West Coast Band", Hootie and the Blowfish's cover of I Go Blind, and more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Pumpkins After Dark, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 1308 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. RecycleMyElectronics.ca.

Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Getting hip to the hip. An evening for the Downey Wenjack fund on september 1st save 10 with the promo code f-o-t-m-10 pumpkins after dark use the promo code t-o-mike15 t-o-mike15 and save 15 this month at pumpkinsafterdark.com. And Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his in-person Toronto Mike debut is 5440's Neil Osborne.

Neil, thanks for being here. What a pleasure it is to finally meet you in person. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me. What brings you to Toronto? That's always my first question. Thanks for being here. What a pleasure it is to finally meet you in person. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me. What brings you to Toronto? That's always my first question. You are a West Coaster, and The Evidence is your new single,

which I'm going to play in a moment. But what brings you to Toronto? Well, we also have a live At The Elmo album coming out, and we're doing a show for it tomorrow night. Well, Friday night. I don't know how this is pre-recorded. You know what? This will drop, I'd say five minutes after we take a photo.

So we're going to record and then we're going to take a photo and then it's going to drop five minutes later. Nice, yeah. So tomorrow night and we're here for that.

You want a fun fact, Neil? Sure. Michael Weckerle's mom was a teacher at my high school when I was at Michael Power High School. I did not know that.

What did she teach? Latin, I believe. Is that language still uh vibrant and important is that we anyone speaking latin anymore i suppose if you're looking for the roots of words it's it's good to have but other than that i don't know i think people took latin because part of that deal was there was like a trip to i don't know you'd take a trip to europe and uh like you had to pay for of course, but like this was like a school trip you would take.

Like that was the benefit of taking Latin. You got a school trip out of it. You got a school trip out of it. And where I was like, I would go to Blue Mountain here for skiing, right? Which US coasters laugh at, but you know,

a trip to Europe, that's, that's a real trip. Like sign me up. Yeah, absolutely. Real deal. Real deal,

Neil. Okay. I have a, I want to start. So I do want to go back and I guess you're used to this now, but people want to go back and revisit this ongoing history of 5440. But I do want to start in the present. And I mentioned you're a West Coast band.

This is a West Coast band. A band called the band. Thank you. Thanks for coming anyway You look like a band that can really play But I don't need you, I'll tell you straight I got a DJ and she works late If you wanna stay, you won't get paid Out in the lobby is where you'll play Be armed by eight and don't be late And don't complain, there's no booze here, mate

What a dickhead What a man He doesn't get it This is a West Coast band And we make bands Neil, it sounds fantastic. Thank you. I mean, you're 40 years in the making here.

I mean, you're still going. I'm curious, is it as fun for you today to make new music as it was back in the, I don't know, the mid-80s? Oh, yeah, it's at least as fun, you know. I mean, I suppose in the late 80s, we thought we were still changing the world. Now we're just trying to stay alive in it. Do you remember, is there a moment when you realized,

oh, we're not changing the world like we thought we were? Like, is there a demarcation line there? Probably around 1990-something or other. I thought you were going to drop a date on me there. Yeah, yeah. There's a few demarcations. One is when we, you know, decided to take a lot of money for a few shows.

Yeah, but we never took the cigarette money or the beer money, you know. Remember those days when you go on the road and if you put Demorier on the side of your tour bus? Was that always important to you, that you weren't going to take that money? It seemed to be at the time. And I think I don't regret those decisions,

but the front line of that battle all of a sudden was behind us. You know what I mean? Like we'd already lost. Like you couldn't play anywhere without seeing a Molson or this sign or a Labatt sign. We used to have control

over the sight lines of the stage. Like that was in our contract all the time. Wow. And we, we did a festival once with the, we were opening for Pearl Jam and they were just becoming super huge. And they had a big Labatt balloon and we wouldn't go on stage because that was in the sight line of the band.

And then there was this big kerfuffle and a standstill and nothing was happening. And then, uh, Eddie, little Eddie Vedder, you know, God bless him. He came up and said, what's going on? Yeah. I said, well, these guys, you know, they're being dicks because they won't go on unless they have control of the sight lines.

He goes, take the balloon down. And all of a sudden the balloon went. You know, I'm so glad to hear that because I do enjoy me some Pearl Jam and I always thought Eddie Vedder was like a principled guy, like that he would, you know, agree if you guys take the balloon down. So you've always been principled, but any regrets, like if you could do it all over again, would you sell the hell out? Like, I'm just curious if you would change it. Of course. Just show me the buyers. Wow. Okay.

Now, again, as we walk through, you know, we walk through, we'll extract more stories here. But West Coast Band, my question is, sometimes when I talk to, I don't know, Craig Northey, I talk to Biff Naked, artists that are kind of from the West Coast. I'm curious, is there a difference between a West Coast Band and a Central or East Coast Band? i would assume so having not really you know can't come out of those scenes i have no idea i mean this is specific really to the late 70s early 80s vancouver music scenes punk post-punk alternative like art birdman what are we talking here oh yeah young canadians for sure they were heroes of ours you know pointed sticks was another band yeah uh subhumans doa was more brad's thing he was into the more hardcore stuff there's a a lot of great bands, Insects, that you never heard of or wouldn't have heard of. You know, maybe put out one single, that kind of thing. Right.

But it was a real scene, you know, and I think there's a sound, and I think even that song reflects that sound a little bit and the energy. So, okay, so I'm going to, you know, maybe I'll start with another song that'll take you way back here. So let me just play a little bit of this. Cool. We'll be right back. Did anyone tell you Tight, like short in it?

I mean, lowest to the lower on this program They talked about Rosie and Gray And they're like Short in the intro for radio. Did you ever get that feedback with this song? God no. Radio was the enemy at that point in time. So this is your

first single. So it's almost like we start with your most recent single, West Coast Band and this is your very first single. Is it a single? I don't know. There was no single. No single. It was an album. It was an album. It was an album. Maybe people featured it. That's the title track.

Did it get any radio play? It would have got college radio play, like in the States and Canada. Fair bit, actually. But you've got to remember, this is probably 83, 84. So even the college radio, very quickly after that,

late 80s, college radio, especially in the States, like very quickly after that late 80s, college radio, especially in the States, became very, very focused by the record companies. Before that, the record companies

really didn't give a shit about college radio. Then all of a sudden, that's all they gave a shit about. Fascinating. Okay, is that REM's doing?

REM would be one best. Some friends of ours, Husker Du, they were sort of the first to transition over to Warner Brothers in fact they're part of the reason

why we transitioned over to Warner Brothers but I think that talking to those guys Bob Mould especially it was like you know we sold more records

on our own before Warner Brothers so you didn't think it was that great of a deal. You know, you don't know. So this is the album Set the Fire. This is the song Set the Fire. Yeah, and this single, I guess, well, you record this in 83

and it comes out in 84, according to my little notes here. Yeah, there's a song called Sound of Truth on there that was featured on a Sub Pop compilation out of Seattle. Okay, of course. So that might have been considered a single because they grabbed that track and put it on their compilation. Okay, so let's get a little bit, and I'm sure you're sick of answering these questions.

That's a good question for this record in a while. Well, in listening to it now, I just came off watching this lowest of the low documentary so that's why it's also top of mind and uh yeah apparently they're like the intro to rosie and gray and i coincidentally i close every episode of this podcast with rosie and gray so like at the end of this we're going to hear it but and the reason i close every episode of it because it's got that long intro right but they're like no you got a short in that intro and ron hawkins was like no we're we're not gonna do that.

And then throughout the history of that band, Lois of the Low, you know, who are very big here, but as my buddy Sammy Cohn from The Watchmen tells me, they couldn't fill the Commodore room in Vancouver, he tells me. Like, this is a very localized phenomenon. But Ron Hawkins

did several things basically to ensure that they did not have commercial success yeah yeah that's that that was also kind of a principle of the vancouver music scene that we we came from as well it's almost it was a badge of honor to not make it well you didn't do a very good job at not making it as as far as I'm concerned. You blew it. Yeah, a little bit. Some of those bands would say that to us, that's for sure. So give me, if you don't mind, again, I know you've been asked about this probably 10 times already today, but can you give me the 5440 origin story?

Like how it forms, who's in the band at the very beginning, and how you came up with the name? Okay, sure. the very beginning and how you came up with the name um okay sure the uh brad merit the bass player and myself uh met in grade 11 um in i guess it would be social studies class and then in grade 12 we were in history class and english lit together and we in fact became fast friends uh i just moved there. So I moved to the middle of grade 11. Where's there exactly? Oh, sorry, Tawas and British Columbia.

So do you know where that is? No, like where is that? I know where Vancouver is. Where is it like related to Vancouver? So it's hard to explain without looking at a map, but there's that little peninsula. If you go to the very, very west coast before you get to Vancouver Island, as far as the continent goes, the 49th gets drawn right across and you'll notice that there's a little line that snips across a little peninsula so that part of its u.s and part of its canada

point roberts is the u.s part to us and is the canadian part i read about this during covid yeah that's right because the people of people of Point Roberts had to get special permission to enter Canada to go get groceries. Right. Because otherwise it was a three-hour drive to go to the mainland US. Okay, fascinating. Yeah, so we grew up there or went to high school there. My dad worked for the federal government.

So I was born in Regina, then moved to Nova Scotia, then Ottawa, then Edmonton, and then there. And his dad worked for aluminum and like Alcan Aluminum and various aluminum companies. And he lived in New Orleans, Cleveland, San Francisco, all over the states. And ironically, we met right on the border, like right on the 49th. And in history class. So you can go from there. Yeah.

This is James K. Polk who coined the phrase 5440 or fight yeah so 5440 or fight was part of the american manifest destiny where they wanted to make all of north america america and that was in the in those days the west coast was the oregon territories and british north america in the 1840s 50s and they wanted to raise the border up to the tip of alaska which is the 54th degree and the 40th minute okay so he won the campaign on 54 40 year fight 54 40 or bust but as soon as he became president he was like eh you know like typical politician don't fulfill their promise which was okay for us the funny story is about a year after we started to play and it's just in local bands,

but we did manage to get to Seattle a few times in that first year. And there was a band out of Seattle that wanted to call themselves 5440, but all our friends who were in bands down there, said, no, you can't. There's already a band in Vancouver that's called 5440.

And that little band decided to call themselves Soundgarden. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not true. Well, they did open for us back in the day. Did they? Yes. I didn't know that. Jim and, where was it uh south seattle somewhere wow and uh i remember seeing them and

it was probably you know a lot of skate guys skateboarders um probably in a like a high school gym with maybe 200 people maybe like it looked empty and uh when they went on uh i just heard this voice that just knocked the ceiling off like who's this guy baby chris cornell like it's overkill plus but he was amazing yeah wow now we've already covered uh eddie vetter we covered chris cornell yeah why don't we, why are we going there? That's not my favorite kind of music at all. You're not a grunge guy. Not really, but there you go. But you did get played alongside grunge

for several years in the 90s there. Yeah, exactly. So, a little interesting fact. So, Rob Pruess from Spoons, the Spoons. Spoons, the Spoons. I never know how they want their band name called. Gord said he didn't care when I asked him. But Rob Pruess was just here, and and rob pruse's first ever performance with the

spoons was the night john lennon was killed so this is like a night he any members of paul myers was in the crowd there's a whole history around it because that's the night everybody learned john lennon was killed so that's in the east coast i think i don't know 10 something pm is when news comes out john lennon is dead you're on the west coast so that's like 7 p Coast. I think, I don't know, 10 something PM is when news comes out. John Lennon is dead. You're on the West Coast. So that's like 7 PM. So my question is, and I think you know where I'm going this, but your first ever gig in 5440 took place the night John Lennon was killed.

So you must have known John Lennon was dead before you hit the stage because of the three hour difference. Yeah. So the first gig that we did, the first official 5440 gig was actually New Year's Eve, 1980. The first gig at 5440 was sort of out in Coquitlam at this Top 40 bar where Monday nights was original band night. Da-da-da-da, original band night.

And we were a three-piece. Brad and I and a drummer named Ian Franey at the time had a gig. And we were driving from Tawasin out to Coquitlam, which was about an hour and a drummer named Ian Franey at the time had a gig. And we were driving from Tawasin out to Coquitlam, which was about an hour and a half drive. And it was all over the news. And it was so heavy. Yeah, I can only imagine. It was just like, oh my God.

And John Lennon, and when we started out, we were on a mission. We thought we could change the world. I still think that music in those days thought it could still change the world, certainly influence culture. And John Lennon was certainly one of those people if not the person you know that had that moniker attached to him um so when he was killed it was just unbelievable i mean this has changed the world kind of changed for everybody and especially anybody to do with music so it's pretty. And we got up there and played our hearts out, you know, just,

just, just played our hearts out. Yeah. I'm trying to imagine your mindset. Uh, you're, you're doing a get, you're very young.

Okay. You guys are very young. I'm just at the math. Cause if you meet in the grade 11, see, I'm pretty good at this. I realized that you're super young in 1980 and you're, you know,

new band, you're, you're gig, whatever this Coquitlam bar or whatever, like how do you even pull it off? I mean, what's the mood like in that? First of all, is anyone in the crowd? And what's the mood like with news?

I don't even remember. I do remember the feeling of just like, you know, just getting your head down into the music and just being, I don't know, there's a few moments that you have as you go along where you're just kind of moved by the whole moment. And that was one of them. The crowd was with the crowd. I mean, I don't think anybody would want to have seen

John Lennon assassinated. So I think there was a general somber feeling anyway. Right. Do you remember, did you play a Beatles song or a John Lennon song? God, we didn't know how. Are you kidding? That's fine.

I don't know where you're at in December 1980, but I guess you're just figuring shit out, making it up as you go along. Yeah, pretty much. Okay, because you're still a few years out from Set the Fire. And we talked about Set the Fire, and maybe it got a little college play or whatever, but it wasn't being played on any mainstream radio. But I'm going

to play a song that did get noticed. So let's play a little bit of this song. Well, I won't come back and I won't say no But that we circled around us, we caught a little over Like you said One plain mirror, you seem so surprised Leaves inside, you get that pretty little nightmare It comes alive Baby ran, she ran away Why she ran, I got to say

I'm worried so All the time Baby ran, she ran away while she ran I got to say I'm lonesome, reason why Neil, do you remember how this song came together? Would have been the bass line, Brad's bass line. He was pretty much a genius at those things. And we just kind of followed along and then came out with the words somehow.

Would have been spontaneous, those words, you know. In those days, a lot of the time, we would sort of jam and I'd just sort of sing whatever seemed to fit. And probably Baby ran, she ran away it was one of them you know and it worked i mean and even just the melody here it's it's so much more radio friendly and catchy than what you'd hear on set the fire like it you know you're saying you're out to change the world, and you did a terrible job of not being commercially successful because this song is catchy AF. Yeah, so like a lot of bands,

you start to accidentally learn how to write songs. Okay. You know, we never tried to, you know, I think I remember hearing the guys in New Order when they were Joy Division talk about all we thought we were doing is writing pop songs. Of course, that didn't really happen until much later. But they had quite a following from the cool

stuff that they did create. So I think that's what we were trying to do. Just whatever tickled our fancy. And then all of a sudden we just kind of knew what to do. Man, I actually recently, well not too recently, but I'm just

measuring it by the age of my kids. So my third born, it was the first concert he ever attended, but he was wearing those like, he's only a baby and he was wearing those earmuffs. Yeah. Yeah. You remember that guy. This was at like right down the street, literally Sam Smith Park, Colonel Samuel Smith Park in 5440 played. And I remember taking this mental note and it's not the first time I've seen you and it's not the last time I've seen you but that it was like a full set of radio hits every single song and it's a lengthy set and every single song is a song you

know from the radio and this I suppose this is your very first success on the radio yeah certainly out here we didn't even come to Toronto until 1986 I think it was june and we played our first show that was the diamond which is now the phoenix i guess yeah sure it was a sold-out show and you know uh cfny was playing the crap out of the song and it was it was a

really good feeling it's kind of weird let me ask you about the role of radio. So who was playing you in your home there in BC? Who? What stations, I should say. What radio stations would be playing this song? Oh, back then it would have been CFOX, I think was the primary one. Rock 101 was probably, I can't remember what format they were. They might have been a little lighter. I can't remember.

I got to be honest. Do you have any memory, because it's Toronto Mic Tier, do you have any memory of who at CFNY was a champion of your music? Do you remember any of the personalities at the time?

The biggest champion of our music, and this is why radio played us, and this is my understanding of it, and it could be argued with, even within the band, was Much Music. It was people like Erica M

who championed us. And it was because Much Music was constantly playing Baby Rand that radio actually finally accepted us. Initially, they didn't, just so you know. There you go. Yeah, here, sorry. David Kine sent me over a box of Much Music paraphernalia. Is that a postcard or what is that thing?

Is it functional in any way? I think it's a sticker, but I'm afraid to unstick it, so I sort of treat it a Is that a postcard or what is that thing? Is it functional in any way? I think it's a sticker but I'm afraid to unstick it so I sort of treat it a bit like a postcard but it's apparently the real deal

like from the mid-80s there. So I was going to ask you about the role of Much Music. Yeah, and you know, again, we talked about

all these radio-friendly singles and they were all played high rotation on Much Music, absolutely. And that's, I'm sure that's a big difference maker

where you can be based in the West Coast, you're a West Coast band. I learned that from the new single, you're sure that's a big difference maker where you can be based in the West Coast, you're a West Coast band. I learned that from the new single, you're a West Coast band, man. But you can be heard in like Halifax or, you know, you can be heard all across this vast, difficult to tour country.

Yes, absolutely. Yes, and you have to go through Thunder Bay. Everything goes through Thunder Bay. Yes, weirdly. All right, I gotta play one more song that's kind of... Because I am curious in the difference in your band from Set This Fire to

When Baby Ran. And then this song I'm about to play, and you're going to predict the follow-up. But I'm going to play a bit of this song from the same era as Baby Ran. Let's get that started. I love you. I don't know what it is. Something in me just won't give it a chance I think it's that I feel more confused by the fear That life has shown me All right, Neil.

I know you probably know where I'm going with this, but firstly, I'll just let you know, don't worry. We won't do this for every one of your radio hits or you'll literally be here for like four or five hours, I'd say. So I just have a few choice jams. But one is this song, because I listen to this song right now in the headphones, and I know this was a big hit in my home in Native Land, Canada.

I'm curious why this song needs to be covered by an American band to be a hit south of the border. What is it about this song that was rejected by American radio when you guys performed it uh 10 years maybe we were so ahead of our time that americans could catch up

they weren't ready for you yet no still aren't bastards son of a bitch okay this is like in back to the future when uh what is it he plays the uh jay fox yeah yeah michael jay fox scott he plays the van halen song or whatever yeah the team he goes you're not ready for this yet your kids are gonna love it yeah yeah yeah yeah that's a good one that is a good one the uh just saw that actually did you i actually so it's good to do every four or five years you know what it holds up eh like it's totally what The first one. Yeah, the first one. The second one, not so much. The third one is a waste of time.

I spend all my time with that first one. I keep having kids, and I have to introduce them to that freaking movie. So I just watched it with the seven. Yeah, they love it too, right? Yeah. And it's great from start to finish. It's also smart. Even the Huey Lewis seems to fit it so well.

Yeah, absolutely. The power of love and all that stuff. Yeah, and it makes you know even the Huey Lewis seems to fit it so well and you got the power of love and all that stuff and it makes you want to skateboard it always has this like always oh I should skateboard this is the effect it has on me I haven't got to that you just get a surfboard you guys at West okay so I want to know

maybe I'll play a little bit of it while we talk about it but yeah so am I on the air? Yeah. Can't even tell it's not us yet. And until... So you can hear Darius. Yeah, he's so laid back on the beat.

I can't follow him. Like, if I try to sing along with him on this, he's so far back, which is kind of cool. Yeah, he's really chill there. Now, I wanted to know what you thought of this, and I want to know what your accountant thinks on this. He's so far back, which is kind of cool. Yeah, he's really chill there. Now, I wanted to know what you thought of this, and I want to know what your accountant

thinks of this. Like, was this lucrative for the band that Hootie took this and it was on the Friends soundtrack? Yes. Yes, very lucrative.

It was... Did it buy you a cottage, Neil? Yes. It didn't buy me a cottage. It bought me a house, which is nice. That's better than a cottage. Yeah. I don't quite have a cottage yet, but me a house, which is nice. That's better than a cottage. Yeah.

I don't quite have a cottage yet. Do you have a trailer? I do not have a trailer. Do you camp? Do you have a tent? I hate camping. My wife. Oh, do you?

My wife likes camping. My wife won't camp. I'll camp with your wife and we'll solve this. So what was it like? Walk me through it. So how does the band find out that hootie and the blowfish are going to cover i go blind like all those years later and uh how close was that song to being on cracked rear view which is the uh hootie album that sold a bajillion copies yeah so i don't know 15 16 million copies. Well, my recollection of it, they were a frat band, you know,

out of the University of South Carolina that used to come see us play. We were down in those parts. And they covered most of our green record and a lot of REM and a lot of bands from that sound and era. Right. And we'd met them a few times

and then kind of forgot about them and then 10 years later they were hooting the blowfish and i remember we were on the road i think with our lady peace down in cleveland or something like that in the 90s 95 6 i guess yeah and oh somebody from our main management uh company i think it was jason called and said you know know, these guys, it's on the B-side of their cassette single. You should go pick it up. And I said, what is? And it's like, no, no, no, it's cool. Anyways, and then

bada bing, bada boom, it was their contributions to Friends' soundtrack. As my understanding, it was a stipulation that it did not become a single. Because they were about to release their second album. Right.

So this gets a little detailed. I like detail. Yeah, sure. So their A&R person who signed Hootie moved from, what was it, something to Atlantic or from one label to another. And the new label, he was in charge of the Friends soundtrack. So he copped a favor from the guys in Hoonies. He says, look, I signed you and you're gazillionaires now.

Give me a track. And they said, oh, we had this kicking around that didn't make the cut on our first album. Because I don't know why. And that's a shame. But I guess because they didn't write it. Right. And you can have it on the stipulation that it's not a single and then i think it was out of boulder colorado that there was such a hootie mania at the time that they just

picked it up and it outdid their second album's first single and then it spread spread like it was one of those organic things where the song just you know like yeah you know rock around the clock it's like today we're going to see the film and the singles spinning around and people phoning in. People were phoning in to hear it. And then it spread out of Colorado and all the way across the whole country. Well, it's a great, it's objectively a great song.

Yeah, so there you go. And you wrote that thing. Yeah, yeah. So why Warners? I remember when we were presenting uh what's his lenny warrenker who was the president of warner brothers at the time in 86 and i walked up into his office and he's like how you doing neil i'm like okay and i just met mo austin i mean i mean meeting like legends right you know lenny warrenker produced all the gordon lightfoot records and

all kinds of stuff and he goes you know you're happy to be on Reprise? And I said, yeah, we picked Reprise because of Neil Young. Yeah, he was just here. You should have met him. And all this. And, you know, our A&R guy played him, Baby Ran, and I go blind. And I went, fuck, this sounds good. Yeah.

And he was like, great work. Yeah, I don't think he was, I don't know. He would be the equivalent of just answering emails, although there was no emails at that time. Right. Just his head was somewhere else. And they never did release it as a single, like at all. So, you know.

That's bullshit, Neil. Totally, yeah. So I'm glad it got to see the light of day because, yeah, good song. You'd think Will Out, as they say. Is it fair to say you're the second greatest Canadian rock singer named Neil? No, it's not fair at all.

You're number one. Yeah. Screw you, Neil Young. I'm the best rock singer under whatever the hell, 79 or 80, that's for sure. Yeah, who knows? No, I love Neil Young. I love him.

I mean, I don't know him but you've never met him no we got to get these neils together here yeah there's only a few there's a great picture of uh gourds together and sadly they're all past now but i think it's a gordon pincent uh gordon gourd downy and gordon lightfoot like there's a photo of those to be together and they're all gone we We need to do the Neil photo. No, are you kidding? Based on that formula, I don't want to do that photo. Well, you're right.

You're right. But for what it's worth, Lightfoot had a good long life. Yeah, yeah. And a good long catalog. And Pinson had a good long life. Yeah. So we only lost Gord Downie well before his time. Definitely.

All right. So I don't want to go by I Go Blind without mentioning that Mark wrote me when I said you were coming on Toronto Mike. He wrote me and said that Hootie and the Blowfish open their concerts now with I Go Blind. Good for them. So that's their opener. Did you know that?

I did not. That's really cool. Yeah, I think that's amazing. I don't know how often, because I know he's got a country music career career now so i don't know how often hootie and the blow but they still do those nostalgic concerts because bare naked ladies were opening for them in the states that's right yeah yeah so they're still in the summer and they were doing those shows yeah yeah okay so uh gourd i'm gonna well first i'll ask cam gordon's question cam by the way for listeners is back in the toronto mic calendar we're gonna see uh cam gordon next uh next month but cam wants to know what's the deal with

love love spelled luv nice to love you radio love song he wants to know if you were inspired to you know start spelling love luv were you inspired by prince who would do you know i would die for you nothing compares to you if the numerical two and then the letter U. What's up with love? Yeah, no kidding. That would be awesome. I'm going to say yes. Prince definitely inspired me. He's reinventing history. I love Prince. I

don't know other than maybe it was just another way to interpret the word without making it too you know, schmaltzy. And of course I write it's my shorthand just to sort of quickly the word without making it too schmaltzy. And of course I write it's my shorthand just to sort of quickly just to handwrite lyrics and things like that.

Maybe it's a nihilism like it's just your trademark. Love is L-U-V. Not all the songs that we have love in the title are spelled that way. It's too late to retroactively go back and edit that so they are because it would be fun if they were all, all songs by 5440 with the word love in the title has L U V as a spelling.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, I think you're onto something. Gord. Hello to YYZ Gord. He wrote in,

he wrote, excited to hear your interview with Neil Osborne. Please tell him I am a huge fan of his work and that 5440s music is a defining moment of my youth. So that's from Gord. Thank you, Gord. But Gord has a specific question about this song. So I'm going to play a bit of the song and then we're going to read Gord's question. Thank you. One day in your life Shouldn't be a problem One day in your life

Shouldn't cause you pain Because it's one day that you might One day your life shouldn't cause you pain Because it's one day that you might never be around here And I'll never ever see you again One day in your life you don't have to worry One day in your life, you don't have to cry Because it's one day that you might never be around here And I'll never ever see you alive

One day I've never written a hit song, Neil, but I'm curious. When you listen to these songs, which you still regularly play live, etc., what's it like listening to your own work in the headphones? You listen to the song and say, that's a great song? Or do you listen and say, oh, I should have done this differently? No, no, never. Not on the hits.

I was just thinking how catchy it is. That's pretty catchy. It's catchy. Which was a phrase that was a benchmark thing. Is it catchy? That was one of the things we said. Does it have a hook and you dance to it? Yeah, exactly. Okay, back to Gord's question.

So Gord, speaking of Gord, Gord, you weren't in that photo, which is good because that's why you're still with us. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. But Gord writes, one day in my life is a brilliant song and still one of my favorites. It instantly takes me back to the best memories of high school. I'm curious if there's anything Neil can say

about the inspiration for the song and how he still feels about it today. Well, One Day in Your Life shouldn't be a problem. Oh, Your Life. I said, you know why? Because Gord called it One Day in My Life, but of course the title is One Day in Your Life. It's to Gord, so it is his life, so he's allowed to do that, but you're not. We'll allow it. I said, you know why? Because Gord called it one day in my life, but of course the title is in your life. It's to Gord, so it is

his life, so he's allowed to do that. But you're not. I can't do that. You're the pro. You can't do that. Well, I'm something. But please continue. Where am I? It's a common theme that we have. If you listen to all of our records and even some

of the hits, it's a common theme of don't worry about things, let them fly off your back or whatever. Right. That one, it was popular. We were playing a lot of the club scene in L.A. and when we sort of came up with that song,

my mom used to say, you know, if there's a problem, just wait a day. And I kind of took that and went oh yeah just like it's today's problems not tomorrow's problem kind of thing and somehow turned it into one day in your life you know shouldn't be a problem but i remember we were playing the la club scene this is probably about 84 5 and uh you know it it was kind of a vibrant scene back in the day. I'm in a club in Charlie's Obsession and a few of these other places. And this guy had a sign that said, I have AIDS. And I didn't even know what that meant.

I had no idea. And then we started talking to him after. And I was like, what the hell is this about? But he loved that song. So I'd like to say that that's inspired it, but it didn't. But it inspired for this person. So yeah, it was from my mom, more or less. Well, it's a beautiful song.

But again, as I said, you have, I don't know, roughly 20 to 30 big Canadian radio hits. And I always, and again, you kind of explained a little bit with I Go blind and stuff but it never made sense it doesn't make sense to me as a guy who just consumes music and doesn't think about the fact oh this is a bc band like i never have this thought of oh these are canadian this is a canadian band i just think oh it's 50 for 40 they got these big fucking rock singles and i like listening to these songs so i don't why wouldn't, why wouldn't One Gun be a hit in the United States?

Why wouldn't that song be a breakthrough single in the United States? I mean, the Barenaked Ladies went to number one with one week. So it's,

where's the 5440 US Billboard success? And this is not a slight against you because he's, like I'm saying, I wonder if it's something to do, something political or something to do something political or

something to do with mismanagement or like you tell me i don't know i don't know i mean you know in so so many ways we're we're quite fortunate and quite lucky and we're still here and we you know unlike a lot of bands uh not that i want to put down any other band but we never stopped even through covid we managed to squeeze in a couple of gigs in that year uh we've never broke Not that I want to put down any other band, but we never stopped. Even through COVID, we managed to squeeze in a couple of gigs in that year. We've never broke up and re-got together. We're still making records. We got a new record coming out in October

and we're already writing the next one. Wow. And you and Brad still like each other? Oh, yeah. Because that's amazing unto itself because you guys go back to the 70s. Yeah, we do. Crazy, isn't it?

It's nuts. As far as, you know, like, it's funny you mentioned One Gun, because I do think that's a song that somebody, an artist who is, you know, part of the anti-gun lobby and legislation should pick that song up. I try to talk about it every time I'm down there, and I'm not, you know, I'm quite blunt i mean even in this country i don't think anybody should have a gun i don't think you need to hunt you know last time i checked safeway has all the meat you're going to want right or whatever grocery store is your choice so um you know that's where i say if if you know someone

or related to someone or friends with someone who someone who is a victim of gun violence or associated with somebody who's a victim of gun violence, it's pretty horrific. And so, anyways, not that I want to get into that subject too detailed. Well, you can if you want. surprised that considering we do have a few fans and we do play down south the butter every so often border so often that that you know some artist hasn't sort of taken that song or something like it and done something with it but hey whatever who knows what tomorrow will bring exactly just tomorrow never knows in the meantime i mean you you get to make a living as a rock star i mean you're living the dream, man. You guys are living the dream. Yeah.

Where am I right now? I'm living the dream. You're going, well, I guess. Let me, you're in my basement right now. And that may not be what you envisioned in the, you know, the 80s. One day I'll be in some guy in Southern Etobicoke's basement. I tell you, when we started out, it was never about any of this stuff. You know, we just wanted to make music.

And it was always about the next gig and the next record. That's really all it was about. And would you have played back then? Would you have played for beer? I wasn't much of a beer drinker. Not a big beer drinker. But yeah, yeah, we just played to play, you know, that kind of thing. For the love of the game.

All right, you're not much of a beer drinker, but somebody in your life will enjoy, maybe it'll be yourself here, but I'm going to give you some fresh craft beer to shake with you. Courtesy of Great Lakes Brewers. All the guys love the craft beer. I can tell you that much. It's delicious. They brew it right here in Southern Etobicoke and you're going to bring some fresh craft beer with you. And I don't know, like maybe someone else takes this because I don't know the deal while you're here in Toronto,

but I do have in my freezer upstairs, I have a large frozen lasagna and it's delicious. It's from Palma Pasta. And if you know anybody who can give that a good home. Yeah, yeah. So I'm going to give you the Palma Pasta lasagna. I feel like now I'm like Monty Hall here. Yeah, you are, totally.

And I mean, hey, you never know when you have to measure something. So speaking of ridley funeral home there's a measuring tape for you so you got your lasagna i will tell the listenership here just break uh break from neil for a moment to say that on september 7th uh from 6 to 9 p.m this is a thursday night tmlx 13 is taking place that's the 13th toronto mic listener experience we're going to be meeting at Great Lakes Brewery in Southern Etobicoke. Great Lakes is going to

buy us all, all of us. Everyone who comes is going to get their first beer on the house and will be fed by Palma Pasta. They're going to send over fresh, delicious Italian food for us. So you eat for free, you drink for free, we have a great time. What the heck more

do you want, right Neil? This is fantastic. Nothing more. Nothing more. Oh, we actually already spoke earlier about the Gordes. Gord Downey sadly passed away a few years ago, but Getting Hip to the Hip is taking place on September 1st at 7.30 at the

Rec Room. That's an evening for the Downey Wenjack Fund. Go to gettinghiptothehip.com and use the promo code FOTM10 and you can save 10 on your ticket right now and it's a very reasonably priced ticket to begin with but there's going to be a tragically hip cover band there's going to be a recording of getting hip to the hip a great podcast and i'll be there and it's going to be a great time so that's september 1st 7 30 at the rec room and here as, as we speak with Neil Osborne, it is August 17th. And believe it or not,

uh, we're going to be like, kids are going to go back to school soon and then it'll be Halloween. So now is the time to get your tickets to pumpkins after dark, the award-winning Halloween event in Milton. It takes place September 23rd to October 31st. And if you buy your tickets now, you say 15% with the promo code TOMIKE15 so get

your tickets for Pumpkins After Dark at PumpkinsAfterDark.com with the promo code TOMIKE15 Neil we got some time here so before I play because there's a couple more songs I want to play and there's one I want to ask you if you think it sounds like a different song and now that we're buds

I think you'll be cool with it but I would love an update on your daughter's career because when you came on my show via zoom during the pandemic it was you and candle and you guys were doing stuff together because i love an update on that too but then i didn't realize candle had like a hard out and she had to leave really early and i i felt bad but i did not know that she had to leave so early. But how are things going with Candle and you two and your collaborations together? She's, this is good that you're asking this. She's just about to move back to Montreal. She kind of came home.

When? Because my daughter is moving to Montreal on August 26th. Oh, yeah. I think she's moving west. She's got to place her and her boyfriend for September 1st. So I guess. I'm driving her there. Okay. Okay. There you go. It's exciting. Okay. Oh yeah. I think she's moving west. She got a place, her and her boyfriend for September 1st. So I guess. I'm driving her there. Okay.

Okay. There you go. It's exciting. Okay. Keep going. Sorry. I got excited that we both have daughters going to Montreal. Yeah.

Well, she's going back. And she's just wrapping up most of her new album, which sounds really cool. You know, weird synthy and cinematic and, you know, just,

she just loves kind of being arty with it well she sounds great i should just let the listeners know candles with a k because you're going to be googling this and it's uh important you know candles with a k k-a-n-d-l-e yeah so um and then we started a band sort of through covid uh called the family curse kind of a fun band and and you know sort of assume these different personas like a texas blues you know hillbilly kind of a fun band and, you know, sort of assumed these different personas, like a Texas blues, you know, hillbilly kind of vibe and bluesy rock and roll. Yeah. And we made a record and it was a lot of fun.

And we had Danny Michelle play on four songs. Wow. And we took it on the road last summer. So it was a lot of fun. Yeah. So what brings her to Montreal? Like that's just where she's chosen to put down some roots or what? yeah she so she was there for i guess about eight years before covid and then kind of got trapped uh living with her parents and then decided to move away out of her parents

with her friend in vancouver and then right uh tried to make things happen there but it's expensive and she's kind of better known in quebec than in BC. So she's going back to Montreal. I will say, because my daughter's renting a home with three girlfriends. And rent prices in Montreal are definitely lower than rent prices in Toronto. And I know that Toronto rent prices apparently are lower than Vancouver's. So Montreal is the place to go. Yeah, Vancouver's insane. Yeah.

Because I think we're insane. And then I learn about what's going on with you guys. And then I say, oh, we're both insane. Yeah. There's a. Yeah, because I think we're insane and then I learn about what's going on with you guys and then I say, oh, we're both insane. Yeah. There's a lot of insanity going on around here,

but Montreal, not as insane yet, although, you know, check your watch. It could happen any moment now and shout out to T.Resident who wanted me,

also wanted to know how Candle Osborne's music is going and we got a nice little update there okay i want to play another song because this song reminds me of a different song but let's listen to what i think was a massive 5440 hit in this country guitar solo I'm falling, I'm falling, I'm falling away From what was you Only thing that I said I'd never do

I knew something was wrong when you got All caught up in what was going on And I'm going in Since when did it matter if the outside would fit in? Make you believable. Love can get beautiful. Make you believable. Up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up You can write a hit, man. You can write a hit.

And not everybody can write a hit. I've tried. It's not as easy as it sounds, but you're kind of prolific when you look at everything from 900 feet up. They're all simple songs. I mean, two, three chords, maybe a fourth chord.

It's an accident. You're very humble. You must be Canadian. Since when? That's a big jam. We all know. We talked earlier about, I was talking about the role of radio and you pointed out the role of

much music. This begs a question about today where things have changed slightly, you might have noticed. But I want to play a song everybody knows, just a little bit of the beginning of this famous song. All right, so Neil, my question is, and again, you're prolific, you've written so many hits, and this is not meant to be negative or slight on you, because who am I to judge you? Master writer of many a pop hit here. But when I hear Since When, which I like very much,

why do I hear Green Onions in my head? Any inspiration there? I don't know. You know, the piano line was Phil who came up with it. I mean, I don't mind the comparison at all. It's a blues. Yeah. With a keyboard line that does a cycle thing. Not quite the same.

I remember there was on CFOX, Larry and Willie had a contest. What song is this? Because they tried to figure out that we were stealing it from somebody. You know. And we didn't. Although, there is a famous quote that said that says uh greatness borrows genius steals so our riffs were kind of genius well here let me

do this since we're uh you know there's live no edits here i'm gonna go back to since when again just beginning and then yeah they're very different, but I can see why my brain seems to map them together. That's good. That's a good thing. I like this. This is just... I wish I wrote this too.

I feel like this was like session musicians who were just jamming or something in the studio. Like there's a story here. Yeah. Booker T and the MGs is like, yeah, the session musicians were doing something or other, and they just sort of noodled on this thing. Green Onions.

And I feel like this is one of those go-to songs when you're putting together your movie trailer. You know, like, this will be in the background of your trailer for the film or whatever. All right, since when? Since when? What's I'm really wanting? A brand new machine One for converting

A plastic to dreams If you ride upon the tiger You can never get off. They get hungry. One thing is certain. All the rest are lies. Beautiful and damned ones Never realize That the dark is light enough

To see the ignorance of grief Still she cries Come on, come on, get up I want to take you away from all of this And what has got you lost and feeling down You just get it off your back Let it die away Casual viewing.

I'm like a broken record over here, but fuck it sounds good in the headphones. Okay, so we opened this chat and we opened it with West Coast Band. In 2023, when you have a new single, where do you get that song discoverable for people who are not already 5440

fans? I don't even know what that means. Is that a question? Yeah, it's a question. So back in the day, you'd hear it on the radio and then you'd hear it, you'd see it on much music. It wasn't on demand or anything, it was curated for you and there it music. And it was, you know, it wasn't on demand, anything. It just, it was curated for you and there it was.

And you're like, oh, I like that song. And then you might go buy the album or, you know, try it. So in 2023, will a radio station play West Coast Band? I doubt it. Because they're going to play

I Go Blind or something, right? Yeah. And this happened, I remember this from, I don't know, 10 years ago, maybe even more. What this happened, I remember this from, I don't know, 10 years ago, maybe even more. What song was it

we were trying to put out? You know, when we hired a radio plugger, a radio plugger is someone basically goes around to the radio station and says, hey, 5440's got a new record

or Blue Radio's got a new record or The Hip's got a new record. We want you to play their new song. And they go, well, we won't play a new song because we're formulated and we're just going to play hits

and CanCon and this and that. But we will play your old songs more. And we're like, okay, what else can you do? Yeah, I mean, in this market, there's a station called Boom, and I'm sure Boom plays I Go Blind Every Day, I bet you. But I don't know where where so if you don't because there is no much music they're probably playing Simpsons reruns right now and much music if there is even the signal anymore so there's much music's gone radio seems to have when it comes to heritage

bands like 5440 they seem to have very little interest in the new stuff they do want the uh I don't know the big hits from the 90s or. So really, how do you work a new single in 2023? Well, come here to your basement. You know, start like the old days. Just try to get the word of mouth going. Playing it live a lot. You know, that's still a tried and true method that's how we started uh you know i go blind because it was never released as a single became a fan favorite right right away and i

remember we did a gig at the commodore we didn't play it and we got so much flack for that we're like wow i guess i guess it's it's a popular Yeah, that would piss me off too. Answer your question. I don't know. I mean, it used to be so simple and straightforward, and it's not now. And you're competing against everybody also in their basement putting out records,

which is fine. But, you know, it used to be sort of to get to this. Even when we started out, what separated us from the pack and the Vancouvercouver indie scene is we went ahead and made a record whereas other bands didn't bother because even that was considered selling out you know wow and so we put a record and then we went to the local indie store like zulu records and a couple of others and they'd stock it for us and then all the other kids

coming up in the scene was like oh this is the local band i want to buy that record because they're local that's cool um nowadays you don't even know what's going on i mean i don't know how you'd know anything unless somebody plays something you go what is this i like this and i'll throw it on my playlist that's 17 hours long and maybe it'll turn up again when i play that playlist well now it's almost like you need to uh what do you call it when you preach to the converted. It's like, yeah, the 5440 fans are very interested in new music by 5440. I wouldn't say that either.

Really? Okay, well, okay. Some would be. Some wouldn't be. I don't care. I never did. I mean, we're compelled to write music. We always have been.

And that's kind of been a driving force. We put out a record and then we go experience life and the world and it creates a situation where we want to express maybe some of that or where we're at with it. Not that we're social commentators necessarily, but everything contributes. Do you think possibly in 2023

you'd almost be better off if you had a different band name and logo and presented yourself as a new BC band with the new single West Coast Band. Hard to say. You know, we've actually had that discussion. That was 10 years ago. Right. It's like, what if we call ourselves something else and release this?

You know, but I, you know, who are you trying to please? You know, you're already starting backwards that way. And you're a happy guy. I get a general sense that you're content. Got no complaints of the neon hip that hurts from things, stuff like that. Surfing injuries is what you got here. So remind us, where can we see you,

and when exactly, we heard that new single, but when does the new album drop? I think it's october 7th and the new album is called west coast band and i should point out that it's all songs stories about the band or songs about guys in the band um it's very literal we had a guy named adam casper mix it and he's done like did pearl jam yeah pearl jam and stuff and he goes this is the most literal record i've ever mixed because there's no metaphor it's very a kind of a departure for 5440 but it does tell you a lot of the inside jokes stories

terminologies you know like we have one called same guy different body and that's essentially you know you're doing a show this is from a gig we did years ago in kingston and somehow a drunk guy gets backstage and he's all courageous and you know you ever run into a drunk guy backstage and you try to be friendly but they're not so drunk that they can't tell that you think they're an asshole because they're drunk right and then they all of a sudden they want to beat you up and then you're like oh shit i gotta deal with this guy so that kind of thing before we say goodbye here and i earlier i talked about you know rosie and gray with a very long intro that lois hello refused to shorten for radio radio played it anyways by the way that

in the early 90s but what is your personal favorite song you've ever written, Neil Osborne? I don't have it. Is it asking you like your favorite child or something? You can't pick one? Oh, I can pick my favorite child, no problem. Yeah, that's right. No, no.

Absolutely. I don't know. I mean, I guess what inspires me most, I suppose, are the new ones that I'm looking at. There's a new one that I'm working on. It's called Taking Love. How do you spell love? Well, we're going to go L-U-V according to the new formula. You better or I'll be pissed.

And it's got a cool vibe to it. So here's the thing. One of my favorite things about writing songs and making music is the potential. I don't know. Any artist in whatever they're talking about knows what I'm talking about. In other words, you start to explore this area.

Maybe you're an artist with paint and you put blue on and you're like, well, this could be an ocean. This could be sky. This could be a mood. This could be a million different things. And that's the beauty of creation. And then as you define it, you get a little bit more sad but inspired

because you get sad because now it's not going to be a tree. Now it's not going to be a dog. You eliminate these options, but the further you go and then it's that final end that's the saddest part but the most satisfying at the same time. That's interesting. So for me, the most exciting song is the one I'm working on.

That's sort of like when someone says, oh, what's the greatest beer you've ever drank? It's the one in my hand. song is the one I'm working on that's sort of like what's the greatest beer you've ever drank it's the one in my hand that's the one I'm thinking about yeah Neil man

I'm so glad you dropped by and I got to meet you in person the zooms are fine but I gotta say I'm kind of bored of zooms

and I bet you you don't even remember zooming do you have any memory of zooming with me I do in the sense that Candle had to split once you said that I was like aha I remember feeling Zooming. Do you have any memory of Zooming with me? I do in the sense that Candle had to split. Once you said that, I was like, aha.

I remember feeling rotten about that. Yeah, you're that guy. I'm the asshole. But she could have given me a heads up. It would have been a courtesy heads up to say, just so you know, I have to leave at this time. Also, it's her fault now. I see where you're going. I would have opened with her.

Blame the kid. Maybe I'll see her in Montreal one night. I hope so. My daughter's at McGill, so that's why she's in Montreal. Do you know what neighborhood she's in? Yeah, the Plateau? Yeah, that's where Candle is. They probably will run into each other somehow, some way.

That's wild. That's wild. Thanks for doing this. Thanks, Mike. Continued success. I can't believe your band has been together since the 70s, and there aren't many bands that can make that claim that are still together making new music. And we're doing the same in the late 70s, early 80s.

That's a rarefied error. Yeah, thanks. Appreciate it. And that brings us to the end of our 1,300. What number is this, Neil? Do you know? 308 eighth episode of Toronto Mike you can

follow me on Twitter I'm at Toronto Mike Neil is I believe he's at Neil fifty four forty or some comp or something to that effect yeah on Instagram that's one

way to do it yeah you'll find him find him follow him our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Getting Hip to the Hip is at Getting Hip Pod.

Get those tickets soon because that event is September 1st. Recycle My Electronics are at EPRA underscore Canada. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca to find out where you can drop off your old tech, your old electronics, your old devices to be safely and properly recycled. Pumpkins After Dark are at pumpkins dark. Welcome back pumpkins and Ridley funeral home at Ridley FH five o'clock today. Brad Jones drops by. We're going to record a new episode of life's undertaking is fantastic podcast.

See you all. I'm going to check my notes because I'm going to see you all tomorrow. And my special guest is some guy named Stu stone. See you all then. Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who, yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of grey Cause I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah

I know it's true How about you? I'm picking up trash and then putting down ropes And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can. Maybe I'm not and maybe I am.