Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Neil Osborne: Toronto Mike'd #685

Episode Date: July 14, 2020

Mike chats with Neil Osborne from 54-40 about the band's great history and his work with his daughter Kandle Osborne in The Family Curse.

Welcome to episode 685 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Garbage Day. Weekly reminders for garbage, recycling, and yard waste pickup. Visit GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike to sign up now. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business.

The Kytner Group. They love helping buyers find their dream home. Text TRONOMIKE to 59559. CDN Technologies. They provide managed IT services to businesses throughout the GTA. And we welcome back our friends from Pumpkins After Dark. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is lead singer and founding member of 5440,

Neil Osborne and his daughter, Candle Osborne. Welcome Neil and Candle. Hi. Nice to, nice to meet you both Candle I would just let you know right off the top that I'm a

big fan of your father's work and I've seen 5440 many times so if Candle if it's uncomfortable for you to hear you know your father praised let me know now only when I see his face and how much he loves it

damn it so let's let's tell the listeners where you guys are at in the in the world here so candle let's start with you where are you today today i'm in victoria i got stuck back in bc when i was making a new record in march in vancouver and then i got quarantined in BC when I was making a new record in March in Vancouver. And then I got quarantined in the recording studio and realized I now live in BC. There's worse places to be though. You know, we, you're here in Toronto. We kind of, we, we, we had a little bit more difficulty I'd, with COVID-19 than you guys did. But it always looked like you guys were the shining example in British Columbia,

like how to behave and get this thing under control. So good stuff. Neil, whereabouts are you today? I'm in the south of Vancouver. And, yeah, just hanging out for the summer, basically. And what's the summer been like? What kind of weather have you guys had recently? Well, it's starting to be really nice now.

April was really nice. May was good. June was a bit rainy. You know, typical BC coastal weather. But today, for example, are we talking like you guys are what you're in? You're in the twenties. Like what kind of degrees are we looking at today? Oh yeah. It's going to be 23, four or five, you know, probably go swimming on the beach at the beach later today.

Man. Sounds great. And in candle, you're in Victoria there. I was there last August. Beautiful. Yeah, again, there's worse places to be stuck, I guess, during a pandemic. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I'm just here visiting for a few days, but I've mostly accidentally ended up living with dad again. And we've been riding bikes and making music videos swimming in the ocean barbecues wow you can't really complain so let's right off the top i'll let people know that you guys uh have a band together so uh it's called a family curse and i'm wondering like is the family curse that you're both great singers? Is that the curse? What's the family curse? Kendall?

We're broke. No, no, no, no. Just me. Is it, does it inside joke or what is a family curse referred to? No, I think when we started this group, we, it was actually started a couple years ago when we were sort of remotely you know sending music back and forth and i said i've got these tunes you know you could sing over them and then she was into this whole i guess desert vibe you

know that sort of fear and loathing. I don't know. Like Breaking Bad. When I listen to the track, it sounds a bit like Breaking Bad, you know, that kind of... Sure, Breaking Bad, that whole vibe of Southern California, you know, desert outlaw kind of thing. And so we ran with that, that sort of

Americana rebel theme. And I don't know, It just seemed good. And then we were a family band and we weren't quite the staple singers or the entities of that in terms of the subject matter. So we decided it would be a curse

rather than a blessing. Now, later in the podcast, we're going to hear a family curse, but also we're going to hear some Candle solo. And particularly, the song I'm going to play is called Better Man. And Candle, props to you. You got great pipes and it's an amazing song. Like it's just wonderful.

Thank you so much. So it won't all be about your dad today, but we will start a little heavy on 54, if that's cool with all of you. Sure. Here's a, and throughout, I'll play some music, and I will read some questions that came in from listeners of Toronto Mike who are also fans of 5440. Quick comment off the top.

Robin Reed Griffin, she says, Tell Neil I say hi, and I can't wait for them to come back and play Milton Ontario love them so a lot of people giving some love to you guys right off the top well hello back I can't wait either I can't wait to play anywhere honestly

it's like that old thing they say like are you happy to be here and it's like I'm happy to be anywhere at this point so yeah I'm happy to be anywhere at this point. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. I'm a history major, so I know the answer to this question. But the first question is from Mark David.

Where does the name 5440 come from? Comes from, well, you're the history major, so I hope I get it right. And, you know, I always qualify it by saying to people when they ask me, like, sure you want to know this answer? Because it can be quite long. Right. But essentially, it's American Manifest Destiny, where in the 1850s, 60s, before the Civil War or after?

I can't remember now. What is it? I feel like it's after because they buy Alaska in like, I don't know, 1867 or something like that. Right. So a guy named James Polk was running for president and he seized the opportunity to run on this campaign, which is to raise the border of British North America up to the border of alaska the tip of alaska in other words uh which is the 54th parallel in the 40th minute and it was it was interesting because i was in new orleans a number of years ago and they have the civil war museum there right and i went in there and the guy says where are you from i said well you know i'm in i'm vancouver victoria you

know on the island he goes oh the pig. That's one of my favorite wars. It was the war that was never fought. So what happened then was that some British soldiers went on one of the San Juan Islands, which is now part of the States, just below the 49th, and seized a pig and said, you know, we're taking this to feed our troops. And the guy, the farmer said, no, I'm an American. You're British. You can't do that.

And he said, no, no, this is British territory. It was very ill-defined. It was the Oregon territories and it was British North America at the time. Anyway, long story short, it was an event for James Polk to run on, you know, how dare these British try to take our land out west. So he ran on this campaign, 54-40 or fight. In other words, we get the border raised out west in the 34th parallel in 40 minutes, or we'll fight or we'll bust.

Right. And of course, he won the election on that slogan, but he didn't carry it out because the British already had 25,000 troops here and they settled on the 49th. Now, why do we call that? It's because Brad, Merritt, and I, we were in high school together and both our fathers got transferred a lot. So I lived from Halifax all the way out here. His dad worked for Alcan Aluminum and he lived all over the States.

And we both ended up around the same time in grade 11 as new kids in Tawasin, which is right on the 49th parallel. I don't know if you know that little peninsula that's a little bit Point Roberts right in the edge. So there's a lot of relevance to that name for us. So he's, he's, he's the, I am part of the can am situation. Cool. No, I mean, I like long stories longer. So that was fantastic. I was going to say you never like, and that's the interview. Good night, everybody. This is like your like your heritage minute.

We'll call this a heritage minute. Yeah, I've done one of those too. But it just, it reminds you, never underestimate a good like slogan. Like these populist politicians, like here in Toronto, Rob Ford just said, stop the gravy train. And somehow he becomes mayor

because he had a catchy slogan. I mean, Donald Trump had a catchy slogan i mean donald trump had a slogan some people seemed to like and it made him the president like 54 40 or fight is a is a great slogan yeah i guess it was catchy at the time because he got elected president and it lives on in a great great band name so uh while while we've got you in high school and picking that name, let's continue the origin story, if you will. I know you guys,

because I was researching this, I know you guys play your first gig the night that John Lennon was killed. So help, maybe a little bio on how the heck we get to that point. Well, just after high school, like right after high school, I decided I wanted to be a jazzoid. So I got accepted into Berklee College of Music in Boston. And I didn't enjoy it very much.

And Brad was discovering this new thing called punk rock or, you know, alternative new wave or whatever it was called at the time. And he basically wrote me this long letter that said, you know, forget that stuff. This is where it's happening. And you don't even really have to know how to play much. So we came back and we started with shedding and playing. And then my brother, my older brother had a cover and out in Coquitlam and it was like uh what do they call that open mic Mondays so we were this band that

was going to be called 5440 and we were going to play four songs I guess it was December 8th 1980 and uh on the way out there because it was about a 45 minute drive it was all over the radio and was just devastating. And it just felt like, I don't know, to me, you know, a young kid at the time, very significant that, you know, this guy, this guy's felled. So a lot of us got to rise up and sort of fill, help fill those shoes, you know, if thousands of us can do it, you know.

Yeah, I never considered that perspective. Like, I mean, again i i was a little young but it's the first celebrity death i remember like i was too young when i was died but that john lennon dying that even i and i at the time uh i remember the significance of a beetle you know being murdered like this was big weird i know but out of the ashes there, you know, like you said, rock continued. And that night though, it was in Coquitlam,

right? Where you played that, that night. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you play, did you play a Beatles song

or a John Lennon song? Oh, I don't think we could, we knew how to do that. But it was, it was weird. Everybody felt a bit, you know know i remember that feeling it was you know and i still i can still recall it and feel it and i still wonder if john lennon were around

today whether you know what would his take on things be and all that sort of stuff so yeah we'll always we'll always wonder such things i suppose um so that's a 1980 i do have a note from a guy who calls himself Holy Crap. I don't think that's his real name, but Holy Crap says, I saw them at the Diamond on Jarvis around 1986. I loved their cassette.

My girlfriend hated the show. I loved it. We're married now, and I don't play 5440 out loud. Well, he's got to stop being a wimp with it yeah well i i told him divorce that woman i don't care how many years it's been that's that's ridiculous yeah that's funny that's funny uh just uh just last week on this program i had the the drummer for the watchman uh sammy cone on the show right. And Sammy's from Winnipeg.

The whole band's from Winnipeg. But we did this thing where like we were kicking out Canadian songs that were from west of Ontario. OK, so basically you can figure out which provinces we were looking at. And the very first song he kicked out, which we played and talked about, was this one. So let me play an early 5440 song that people will enjoy. Well, I won't come back and I won't say no But that miserable around us will cut a little Like you said One lady seemed so surprised At least inside you get that pretty little nightmare

It comes alive Baby ran, she ran away Why she ran, I got to say I'm lonesome all the time baby ran she ran away now Neil

before I talk to you about this I need to know if Candle's still with us if I haven't put her to sleep with all this Candle I'm just doing

the work oh no you multitask in about a half an hour I'm going to summon you but could you do you candle work. Oh no. You multitask in about a half an hour. I'm going to summon you, but could you, do you like, what do you, what do you think candle when you listen to a,

you know, an older 5440 jam, like baby ran, like, like, like I know you've got a super bias I play here, but what do you really think? I mean,

it's, it's hard to say cause it's songs I've known my whole life, but I love them. I mean it's hard to say because it's songs I've known my whole life but I love them I mean I've been inspired by 5440s music since I was born and the songs never get old for me and I'm never over them they just they live on forever don't they well that's the beautiful thing about music so Neil uh does this song get old for you like you've been playing this for how many decades now like uh like when you listen back to some of the earlier stuff what do you think uh no i like it i even like the earlier than that stuff actually i like to see follow the trip the trail you know um then playing it never get tired of it

just people get into it. And it's, it's like old friends that show up for a nice barbecue. Okay. Let's, let's talk about earlier than this. Cause I, I went with like,

you know, you got to give the people what they want. You got to give them the hits. So I went with like one of the first, uh, big singles that the, the masses love. But this is 86,

I guess this is the self titled second album. So could any anecdotes or anything you can share about kind of bringing us to his love for 50 for 40 but definitely this is 86 i guess this is the self-titled second album so could any anecdotes or anything you can share about kind of bringing us to this point and then we can talk more about uh to that album yes yeah well we started out in in the vancouver local indie scene right and we were we were part of a collective that was actually run by a guy named Alan Moy, who then became our manager in 1983, I guess, 84. But it was called Moe to Moo, which is modern dance music. And it sort of encompassed all the non-punk indie alternative bands in Vancouver.

Very, very lefty, very political, a lot of them. And we'd organize our own gigs. And then out of that, we did a record called set the fire on our own album and we were sort of very ambitious in recording a whole album because we'd done a couple of eps where all the various artists were on it and we sent all the colleges through canada and the united states and you know then those days you sent a record right uh and uh you mailed it and then you you know two months later you got a you got a note with their playlist copy saying we're playing it unlike today where it's also instant right um and we'd find out oh they're playing it in georgia like crazy and it was like but that was in april and this is october

so um and from that there became a buzz and we used to travel down all the time down the coast you know so we'd be friends with seattle bands and they'd bring us down and we'd bring them up and then from there we met portland bands and then same thing san francisco band we hit san francisco quite a bit and then then we finally got into Los Angeles. And that's when the record companies and all that started to show up. We had an indie record, which was the Green Album that Baby Ran's on. That was already recorded and ready to go. So Warner Brothers came in and signed us and just had us remix it. And then they released it.

And then that was sort of how things started. People your way started to hear about us. Well, I got a note from somebody our way who's now your way. He's an FOTM. We'll get to him in just 10 seconds here. But when you mentioned that collective, could you name check, if you don't mind,

just could you name check other bands that were in that collective in the Vancouver scene back then? Yeah, sure. There was, there's like the U-Jerks and Rhythm Mission and Animal Slaves. And I got, what was the other band on there? And then Alan was in a band called Popular Front and he was in a band called female hands right uh there was all there was all kinds of arty bands you know a lot of them were students of emily carr college of art and we played there a lot uh it was very it was more artistic alternative types rather than i guess the anarchistic well no because it obviously a show like toronto mike there's a focus on the Toronto

scene. And, you know, I love having guys like Ron Hawkins on the show just to talk about, you know, you know, back in the day, you know, in Toronto. So whenever I have somebody like yourself from the West Coast scene there, I'm always interested in the name checking. Like you mentioned Popular Front. Well, well, I know I know just enough to be be dangerous but it's just this whole ecosystem out there i'm just very interested yeah yeah i mean we were of a time you know we obviously we played some i think we played with doa two or three times at the buddha and these bands would cross over with each other and then you know a great band like slow came on after us you know we kind of after after we started to get a little more i guess popular uh they were kind of taking over the whole indie scene and and uh the vancouver

scene at that time was very into itself you know and it was very healthy just being into itself and then we would let seattle bands come and go and then of course everybody was interested in any of the bigger bands from the uk or or the UK or wherever that would come and play the bigger clubs. But one of my favorite gigs was seeing the Avengers play. And they were from San Francisco or somewhere down south. Anyway, some of these bands never really made it, but they were so good in those days. bands that never really made it but they were so good in those days so back if we're talking mid 80s here uh like you mean you're in i suppose was the objective tell me if i'm wrong but if you wanted to sell records in this company you had to get a video on much music was that the deal

no that's it that's funny enough that's uh that uh that's that's how we back-ended into popularity, especially in Canada. When we released Baby Ran, we were signing Warner Brothers in the States, and I think the Canadian, we have rejection letters from Warner Brothers Canada. So they were a little put out that we kind of did that. We didn't do it. We just were broke. We took whatever anybody offered us sure they like a good one and uh and then we made a video for the for baby ran and and nobody played it

because they still didn't quite get it like so radio stations like even cfny and you know here cfox and whatever all across the country they were still a little leery. You know, they might play the cars, you know, or, or maybe, but probably not Elvis Costello and stuff like that. And so a Canadian band was a little bit, you know, on as far as the new wave alternative thing that was breaking was kind of not accepted yet. And you still, the only places you could play were, you know, alternative Monday nights and nightclubs and things like that, accepted yet and you still the only places you could play were you know alternative monday nights and nightclubs and things like that or at least to get an opening slot and then and then college

gigs which which were you know our bread and butter for a while there so uh much music you know uh was one of the first stations to grab onto the video and basically play the shit out of it and erica m was was a big fan and she really plugged it and and and boy that turned everything all of a sudden all the radio stations jumped on it following much music so at that time much music was the leader and breaking new music not just us but a lot of bands and but certainly us so every time they played one of our songs then all the radio stations jumped on it you know at a time where of course uh you know lowest so low so low i talk about them a lot only because they're dear friends of the program they've been on many times and i close every episode of

the lowest of the low song but they didn't have videos on much music they were played a lot on 102.1 the edge and you know you know, back then, especially, if you're in Vancouver, you don't get 102.1 The Edge. So it's, you know, but on Much Music, that was, you know, for most of us anyways, it was connecting the entire country. We were all watching, you know.

Yeah, yeah. No, that was what really, we really started to notice. Well, we started to head east right you know right we didn't with no reason to before that no one knew the hell the hell we were and it was you know we're not gonna go to toronto for 200 bucks forget it no because uh as i'm told it's expensive right to uh to tour this country yeah so you didn't have a bus, right? You guys are all, like, what are you guys all,

like, what did you have? Like a van or something? A traffic line van, 1980. I can see it now. I can see it now. Yeah. Neil Morrison, who people listening to me right now know him better as Brother Bill.

He was on Edge 102 for many years. And now he lives in White Rock. So maybe if you yell out your window, maybe he can hear you. Well, it's funny because I'm out here in Tawasin, which is, there's a bay called Boundary Bay. Yeah. Okay. And where I'm going to go swimming later after this call and where I went swimming yesterday, if you look across the bay, you see White Rock, like right there. I can wave. can wave wave to when tide's out i can almost walk across it that's funny so neil morrison wants me to ask you where did you first hear uh baby ran on the

radio um i'm not sure but i do remember maybe he's referring to when we first rolled in Toronto, which was 1986, and we were playing a sold-out show at the Diamond. That was our first show in Toronto. Okay, that's the show that listener referenced, the Holy Crap. That's the show he's talking about, the Diamond. Yeah, well, we played there many Yonge Street or maybe the highway. And then The Edge or CFNY, whatever it was called back then, was playing Baby Ran. And it was like, I think it was the top song on station that week. And, you know, we started yelling out the window of the van like, woo, you know, we're number one.

What does that feel? I mean, I always was wondering what that could must feel like. And it's, you see it kind of portrayed in movies and stuff, right? When you hear, you know, then there's always that scene in the movie where the band hears their song on the radio for the first time. And it's,

it's gotta be an amazing feeling. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, you know, the very first time when you hear it and there's probably, I'd heard it maybe out here before that or whatever.

It's a bit weird. Cause you're like, is that really me is that really us you know right and then you registered that it is and there's this little disconnect it's like when you see a photo of yourself at an event that you didn't know somebody was taking a picture and you're kind of going oh that's interesting you know but it felt great and uh you know like the i remember brad was particularly festive and yelling out the window and i was thinking okay what's next you know how are we going to follow this right well it was way too calculating back then well we'll get into a lot of that there's another quick uh comment from uh i want to say this right. It's going to be tough for me. Resta Unique. Resta Unique.

Let's pretend that's how you say it. Give us the straight goods, Neil. Is there more than one reason why Baby ran away? There's always more than one reason. That's funny. I'm going to play another jam from that album here. And then probably the most, the most,

the question I was asked the most often about you is coming up shortly. So brace yourself, but here's another cut from 5440. Every time I look at you, We'll see you next time. I look at you, I go blind. In the morning I get up and I try to feel alive, but I can't. Every time I look at you, I go blind. I don't know what it is. So there's I Go Blind. Before I get to the question, the most asked question,

which is coming shortly, anything you can share about, you know, composing that song. And I mean, it's a great song, man. Thank you.

Yeah. I mean, the first phrase I remember writing, just when I was living in a basement suite, you know, with beds, there's no bed frame, just on the floor. And I was lying on my back.

And I came up with that riff. And I came up with that first line. That's kind of all I had. And then I didn't know what to do with it. And we were working on another song at the time. And that's the part that goes, In the morning I get up and I try, you know, it's kind of a folk song thing and that was fine

we were evolving that and then I sang this new thing and then Phil actually said, well why don't we just put those together because they kind of work together and I went, whoa, okay, how would we do that and we just sort of worked on it and it is a weird little arrangement it's kind of a two and a half chord song,

but somehow it works, obviously. Oh, for sure it does. Okay, so you're ready for the big question here? Let me fade out 5440, I Go Blind, so I can play a different version of that song by a different band. Okay, Neil, I got a bunch of questions now. So you're comfy there.

I can see you look pretty comfortable. Oh, listen to that. That's Hootie and the Blowfish. Have you heard this version before? Of course I have, yeah. Yeah, I figured. All right, so where do I begin? Firstly, can you tell us how this came to be,

that Hootie and the Blowfish would cover I Go Blind? It's on the Friends soundtrack. Yeah. So, well, first of all, every time, until Darius sings, I can't tell the difference because instrumentally they just carbon copied the whole thing, which is great. I mean, they're really good at doing that. Those guys were students of the University of South Carolina, which is close to Washington, D.C., and they would always go to the 930 Club to check out the bands.

And all the bands sort of went through there. I mean, Husker June, Nirvana, everybody. And we went through there a few times. And they became big fans of us and R.E.M. And they were a cover band they basically played you know all the sort of alternative popular hits of of all of all fans and they loved our band they played Baby Ran Take My Hand and I Go Blind um you know whatever they were just they kind of would crash our dressing room and be friendly guys and fans, you know, offer them our pizza and whatever. Lo and behold, 10 years later, we're playing

somewhere like Columbus, Columbus, Ohio. And I got a call from a guy named Jason Grant, you know, is with Live Nation, but was working for our management and said, yeah, there's a, the B side toside to this band called Hooting the Blowfish. This is like the 90s. It's I Go Blind. And, you know, that's really cool. And I went, oh, who are those guys? And then he reminded me who they were.

And I went, oh, that's weird. He goes, yeah, they're kind of taken off. I went, they are? So I went into a record store and I bought the cassette single and I Go Blind was on the B-side. So that's when I first heard it. Now it became the Friends soundtrack, I think, a year or so after that, where Hootie went on to sell zillions of records. Something like 15 million or something like that.

And they were in the middle of making their second record. And then the Friends soundtrack came up. And they wanted Hootie to contribute a song to it. And Hootie was like, well, our new album's not ready. And our old album's played to death. So we've got this B-side that we did of this other band. And we'll throw it at you. And there's only on one condition, that you don't release it as a single. And they went, yeah, yeah, no problem. And and of course all the radio stations just picked it up anyway because a it was hootie

and they are the most popular band in the world or the states at the time and uh you know it took off so it was a it was one of those rewarding stories in a sense that it was a song that took off because it was a popular song people People liked it. It connected with them somehow because it wasn't marketed as a single and you know what that's all about. Okay. Now, I have to talk a little money here. Did this benefit you guys financially

in any significant way? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think so. It pretty much gave us all deposits. Mind you, house prices were cheaper back then. Right, right. It gave us all down payments on our houses. All right, another question.

Sammy Cohn, the aforementioned drummer for The Watchmen, just when we were talking about you guys last week, he tells a story he heard about how you came within a whisker of that song appearing on Hootie and the Blowfish's Cracked Rear View, which is that mega selling album we're referring to. Yeah. Is that true?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was recorded for that album and then somehow it got left off at the last minute. So, yeah. So it even been a bigger down payment on a bigger house.

Yeah. I think that, yeah. You might be too big for me if that had happened like i think i'm lucky yeah yeah but it's funny you know because i i don't you know who knows but i remember when we finished mixing the album in 1986 or 85 i guess it would have been um and i was having set to have a meeting with lenny warrenker who was the president of warner brothers in los angeles before i got there uh the nr guy was playing him the record and he played him you know baby ran and i want to know and i go blind i think the first three songs on the record and i remember remember hearing I Go Blind through his office going, wow, that sounds really good. But they didn't hear it as a single. That's weird.

It is weird. It's weird because, yeah, go ahead, sorry. It became a hit here. We didn't play it one time we played the Commodore because it wasn't a single and we just thought whatever. And fans were kind of really disappointed and almost booing us because we didn't play it. And we're like, wow, what's going on here? Yeah, I mean, if you needed any, what do you call it? I guess you get edification, validation.

What word am I looking for? I should know this. But by the fact that it became a huge hit in the States when Hootie did it, and it's the same song. He's got a different delivery style and a different voice oh my god he's so laid back on it i like he's almost slow right he's like every time yeah i hear that and i laugh it's like how do you do that i was gonna say do you ever want to mimic him when you're when you're performing it do you ever want to cover hootie's

cover of your song i don't know how we yeah i don't think i can do that i could try but i mean it was a big hit and it's your song so there must be some personal validation there like it tells you it's all marketing right i don't know i mean i don't know like yeah it's that's a tough one um, a couple of quick funny questions about that because people are fascinated with that. But Brian wants to know, Neil, did you ever hear somebody say like, oh, maybe they hear that song, I don't know,

in an Indigo bookstores or something and they go, I love that Hootie and the Blowfish song. And you ever wanted to say, well, actually, like did you ever want to educate them and let them know you're the guy or has that ever happened to you? It hasn't happened to me directly, but I've heard many stories where it has happened. It's like, oh, I got a story for you about that song.

Dustin Rivers wants to know, what do you really think of Hootie and the Blowfish? We're going to get back to Neil and Candle Osborne in a moment, but it's important we stop down and thank those who make this all possible. Seriously, there's no show if these wonderful companies don't step up and help fuel the real talk. Thank you, Great Lakes Beer. Delicious, fresh craft beer Brewed right here in Southern Ontario

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information soon, but get ready. Pumpkins After Dark are back! And now it's time to get back to our conversation, our deep dive with Neil Osborne from 5440

and his daughter, Candle. Thanks for supporting Toronto Mic'd. Thanks for listening. Thanks for giving us five stars on the podcatcher of your choice. Thanks for writing that great review. Thanks for telling your friends about the program. Thanks for supporting the sponsors. Thanks for being a patron at patreon.com slash Toronto Mike.

Thanks for being a patron at patreon.com super nice guys. They always were. I mean, I know that they got way too popular kind of after the Nirvana thing. And then there was the big hate on them. We used to play shows where the fans would just roar, Hootie sucks. It became the loudest thing that we heard.

And we were like, whoa, where's this coming from? And in other words, where were you when you know when we released I go blind but so yeah I think you know I because we toured with them you know when they became big they took us on the road which was nice of them to do and they're just down to earth friendly. They still had an aw shucks. We had no idea how this was going to happen to us. Just prior to, of course, everything changing in mid-March with this pandemic, Neil,

they were taking Barenaked Ladies around as the opening act. Yeah. That's right. I got to go. I have an interview oh if i had no one that i would open with you i had no idea god knows all the answers to everything oh crap okay i candle i didn't know so um i would have started with you and then gone into 5440 if i had no one but but okay. You can't come back, I guess.

I'll be done in an hour. Oh no. Okay. Well, it was nice to meet you and we will spend a lot of time. I'm going to play better man and we're going to sing your praises. So listen back to the recording. Awesome. You guys have fun. Okay. Thank you. Take care. Neil, I feel bad. I had no idea she had a hard stop. Yeah. I wasn't sure what was going on there either, but she doesn't tell me either. I guess we can't read minds, right, Neil, I feel bad. I had no idea she had a hard stop. Yeah, I wasn't sure what was going on there either, but she doesn't tell me either.

I guess we can't read minds, right, Neil? All right. No, it's a good thing. Okay, so we'll speed it up a little bit here. But Mark V wants to know if having that hit in the States by Hootie and the Blowfish covering your song, did that lead to any more interest in your music from Americans? Like,

was there any spillover effect of that nature at all? I'd say the short answer is no. You know, we had definitely some fans on the border cities that would hear Canadian radio, but that didn't, you know, I think most Americans never only think it's a hootie song.

Right. Right. And on that note, how important was it for you i guess back then and then now to have american success like america of course there's it's 10 times the size of canada so just from a you know from a monetary for a monetary purposes you want to crack that because then you can tour more places make more money blah blah blah but um like many a great canadian band it seems like uh they didn't quite get it the way we did uh sort of like tragically hip and some other bands what about talk to me about that if you don't mind very interested well i mean yeah we didn't uh we got signed down there initially which was great um we did three records for warner brothers down there we toured and you know lost a lot of money and got a little bit of tour support but sort of had to pay for it from our canadian shows which is what a lot

of canadian bands do and then you know things started to take off in canada then we started to have families and things like that and it just uh just became untenable to to to survive touring down there i mean yeah i mean obviously you want to you want to be popular you want your music to reach out to as many people as as possible and you want to be able to go to those places and deliver it and you know the states is significant in the sense that it is a big market if you're looking to wear your marketing hat and there's a lot of money there but you know it's not a you don't want to go to any place and just drop money in a hole and never see it again so was there a moment in your career when you realized it's okay?

And I asked this question just last week of Kim Mitchell, actually, because his big first single that was being pushed was Go For Soda, which, Neil, by the way, I thought forever it was called Go For A Soda. It's Go For Soda. There's no A in there. So if you're ever covering it just know that okay yeah okay but uh he told me this interesting story about how uh the the label stopped pushing it because uh twisted sister was on the same label and their hit was taking off

and then kim basically for patio lanterns and and beyond uh was understood that he was going to be a big fucking deal in this country and there was nothing wrong with that. Was there a moment in your career when you kind of realized that maybe like the hip said, it's better for us if they don't understand? I don't know. I mean, I guess, yeah. I mean, I think I remember we, you know,

this is in the early days. You got to remember, we got signed in 1986. I didn't quit working part-time and day jobs until 1991. Oh, wow. That was the state of, that's how it was. And, you know, just don't make enough to make a living. And I already had two kids by then. make enough to make a living and i already had two kids by then so right you know uh we could have gone i think down and lost a bunch of money in the states and i remember this place in calgary

which is the first sort of bar that offered us like ten thousand dollars which is like an ungodly amount of money at that time and we went whoa what do we do and then like brad says that was kind of the day we you know we decided to take the money rather than you know the glory and we took the money and you know it sustained us and and the thing is you have to remember is it's a lot of hats and a lot of things you have to consider and the main one was when brad and started this band, we only had one thing in our manifesto at the time, which is still the number one. It's like the first amendment of our constitution, which was survive,

survive as a band. And, you know, the financial reality of surviving was getting really present as it were. And, you know, $10,000 would give us enough money to sort of like keep our rehearsal space and keep writing and and not have to go to the day job you know

that kind of thing so that's uh what we've done and of course you know um new year's eve night uh 2020 is our 40th anniversary so we have done that quite successfully. No doubt, no doubt. Like Mad Props to you. I've seen you several times live. What a show. And I always, you know, when you see 5440 in concert,

you don't need to be a completist. Like you don't need to be a diehard fan to know every single song you hear. You just have to listen to like rock radio in this country. Everything's a, how many Canadian radio hits does 5440 have? You just have to listen to rock radio in this country. How many Canadian radio hits does 5440 have? Enough for a complete set and more. It's amazing.

Yeah. I mean, that's been very fortunate for us that the radio is taken to the songs and still plays a lot of them. I mean, the only, only i guess funny thing is and you know i'm surprised you haven't asked it yet but maybe it's on your list it's like we used to and still believe it or not uh get a lot of i didn't know that was you guys i didn't know i know that song i didn't know that was you guys you know which is good and bad it's a testament to the good song it's bad that you know gosh if they knew it was us guys maybe maybe that would help no it wasn't on my list uh but i'm glad you uh yeah you brought that one up uh we have to make rich carter we have to answer a question that Rich has been carrying for decades.

Rich Carter writes, this is for you, Neil. Did you attend the U2 Octung Baby concert at Maple Leaf Gardens back in 1990? The reason he asks is he believes he was standing next to you when the lights dimmed and you two came on stage. You both looked at each other, grinned, and then jumped the boards and rushed towards the stage. Rich needs to know if that was you. Well, I was there for sure. It's got to be you. It's got to be you.

And you know what? It could be. It could be. I think it's something that I probably could have done. I think Rich needs this. Like we got to give it to him. Yeah, yeah, for sure. me i mean i was i was i remembered i remember that moment it's like oh my god this is gonna be so good no it was you it was the first i think they came around a game to the stadium or something in toronto you know that was the

sort of the you remember they played maple leaf gardens and then they came around again oh the dome like sky or outside outside in toronto i think huh i'm pretty sure okay anyway i saw both of those shows i saw but the arena one was great because it was smaller and i also saw you two one of the first times they played in north america at the. It wasn't even sold out. Oh, wow. In like 1979, 78, something like that. Wow, wow. I didn't like them. But then in 1990, you were,

I'm sorry, 1990, yeah, Exhibition Stadium would be the outdoor back then in 1990. Yeah, so I thought both those shows, they were both good, actually. Well, I bet you anything, I'm glad that it was you, because I think Rich has been telling that story since 1990. Like, if I do the math right, that's 30 years. So I have a feeling every, because I know this too, I have certain songs that trigger the same story,

like I'm a jukebox or something. And every time, you know, a 5440 song was there at a party or something, he probably shared the story about you and him having that moment at the octung uh baby concert so man it works for me all right i'm gonna skip ahead a little bit i could you know um one is you you worked you were on true north records right uh do you have a like a it's funny just yesterday I was talking to Tom Wilson and even just yesterday Tom was still kind of sharing Bernie Finkelstein stories. Bernie's been on the program. Do you have a Bernie Finkelstein story you could share before I play a little

bit of Ocean Pearl? I don't have a specific Bernie story. I always liked him. He's a charming guy. Alan, our manager, also managed Tom and Blackie. I always kind of knew who he was. Not specifically. No Bernie story from Neil, but I'm going to play a big one up, but I can't think of one right now that's okay i like that you're chill here and i again i'm gonna feel bad about this forever so when you

see your daughter next tell her that toronto mic feels awful because yeah and i would do another zoom with her at another time if just to chat with her if she were up to that but let me just play a little bit of Ocean Pearl here. Okay. Play a little kiss and tell With poison pills Bitten in the valley Is that opening line, is that yours, Neil? Yeah. Just... What is the question?

No, I dig it. I dig it. It's all good. While I play Little Ocean dave moore wants to know uh did you get all your shit back after the u-haul got ripped off a few years ago um uh we got seven guitars stolen we got five back could have been worse but that's that's tough right like uh i know that was went viral i guess you could say in this country anyways and we all felt pretty shitty that somebody would do that but you got five out of seven yeah which is very very uh fortunate because

that doesn't often happen no it's sort of like a bike like i uh i know you cycle a lot yeah like what kind of biking do you do do you do road biking what kind of cycling do you do yeah road biking yep have you ever had a bike stolen out there i have not but i don't uh it's funny when i bought my bike i bought it off a guy who pretty much made made it and it was the frame was even four years old and you know i still paid a lot of money for it and uh i said okay well i guess i should get a lock and he says you're not locking this bike buddy i'm not selling you a lock and i'm like okay so yeah i don't i don't i don't even when i get a coffee it's beside me well that's the that's the only way to be sure is yeah what is

it i once had a similar conversation but i didn't have a bike valued at your price there. So I didn't have, I did buy a kryptonite bike lock, but it was the only lock you can trust is sort of holding in your hand at all times. Like, so even my bike, which is about, I don't know, 1200 bucks, lives in the basement here in my studio. Like I'm looking at it right now. It doesn't, doesn't, doesn't go in the garage. It doesn't stay outside so yeah well that's that's that's funny when he said that is that you're not walking this bike buddy it's like oh okay i guess i get the idea well it's worse here i mean i guess it's bad everywhere but it's much worse i think here this might be the bike theft capital

of the world possibly well it's like you say, you know, once they get stolen, you pretty much got to let it go. Right. That's why it's amazing you got five of those seven guitars. I would think it would be the same of guitars. Like, once they're gone, they're gone. Well, it's true. But like you said, it went viral, right? I mean, it was funny because they got stolen the night before we were playing

that sold-out show at the Commodore. So it was very, very frantic. And it was a Friday morning. I got the call from the Rogue Venture. I got some bad news, you know. Stuff got stolen out of the truck last night. I was like, what? And so, you know, we started putting the word out

because it's one of those things where if you can get it out quick, maybe somebody saw something somewhere. And as it turns out, it got on the news, local news. And this girl that was running the office of a storage space said, those look like guitars that those weird dudes brought in last night. Phoned her boss, who phoned the police. And the police phoned us and said, can you give us a description of the cases? We did.

They matched the video they had of the dudes bringing the guitars in, five of the seven apparently. And that gave them enough for a warrant. And we got the guitars and we got them, you know, by, by the Monday, they were in our hands. We didn't get them for the gig, but we got five of them back. That's, that's good news. Like I said, it could have been a lot worse there.

Bob Madill says, can you ask Neil, what's his most memorable live performance ever and why? By the way, Bob wants to point out that 5440 is revered in Van Groovy. I would argue that 5440 is revered across

this great nation, but let's answer Bob's question. Do you have a most memorable live performance? There's, I guess, you know, the first one, or not the first one you were talking about, which the John Lennon one, although I do remember that quite well. The first gig that we had as our own show, which is our first gig New Year's Eve,

1980 at the Smiling Buddha. I remember that one. I remember opening for the Stones. That was pretty remarkable. Anytime we play the Commodore Ballroom, which is your Ben Groovy thing, it's just magical. So that's always fun.

There's a few. And then, of course, the other one would be playing Moscow in 1989 before the last year of communism, which was really a weird trip. Did Mick – that's amazing. That's like being a part of history before the wall comes down and all that. But what about Mick? Did Mick come and say, good luck, boys, or anything like that?

Sure did, yeah. No, we had an awesome Stones experience because we did a warm-up show did you get a good mix come and say good luck boys or anything like that sure did yeah no we had a we had an awesome stones experience because we did a warm-up show in Banff the night before and they were on holiday so Ron Wood was also in Banff with Charlie and Ronnie came to our show and then he took us up for drinks so you know we'd heard from other bands like the hip another guy other guys that oh you know yes you meet them for a photo and that's kind of it. Well, we were already well beyond that. Right.

And when we got to the gig in Calgary, you know, backstage, Ronnie came out and sort of, hey, guys, how's it going? And like, you know, here's Charlie and you want to meet Keith? And he took us all around. Wow. Yeah. Like I say, those guys are friends of mine. So be careful what you say. I would never discredit the the great rolling stones now richard jackson uh he i might just credit him i don't know who he is but richard jackson says uh how can i get the lyrics to kiss

folk off the fight for love record um play it over and over again the old school way that's how we used to do it this is is how we did it, Richard. Come on. Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the few records where the lyrics aren't printed on it. So, yeah. You got to put in the work. Ian, ask him if he and 5440 will consider taking over the Rivoli.

Team up with, and this is Ian's idea, team up with Lowest of the Low, Ubiquitous Synergy Seeker, Sloan, the Northern Pikes, and the Odds to keep the Rivoli in Toronto alive. Well, if that's a thing, you know, if we're around, for sure. Yeah.

So you're in. Is there a danger? Is this because of COVID? There's a danger? Well, it's for sale. So so there's some worry about whenever these venues are up for sale well you know i suppose it's exactly the same where you are but a lot of these smaller venues are disappearing so there's some concern yeah yeah that's that's a shame i i had that's the first i've heard of that you know you know we used to go there a lot. That would be our hangout, to be quite honest. So speaking of smaller venues, one is coming back to life as soon as this COVID nonsense is out of our system here

and we're all vaccinated and back to normal. I know we can't wait for that, but the El Macombo. So can I ask you, what is the relationship of 5440 with the new, if you will, the newly renovated and about to relaunch elma combo do an improved elma combo well they're already streaming and broadcasting shows there now they got a they got a full high-tech system there you know for like it's the quality the bandwidth is tv station and they got a full recording studio and it's just I've seen the whole thing from ground the ground up so

Mike Bucker Lee who was the Dragon's Den and whatever he was We become good friends. He was he was a weird fan of the band that sort of reemerged like people do and You know, I've sort of been close to him and following him as he's making the club, build the club, progressing the club, and then sort of influenced him maybe a little bit and associating a little label with it, a record label to help artists like ourselves, and Kim Mitchell's on that now,

and a few other artists are going to come. So, yeah, we were all set to do the grand opening i think in april and uh you know boom virus so but it'll be great and it just it is now like i said i think there's a bunch of canada day shows i think july talk played there i think kim mitchell played there i think a few others did a broadcast out of there. I looked at them. They looked really cool. No, I mean, he spared no expense, right? This is some serious upgrades. Yeah, I mean, he's a huge fan of music and of Toronto history

and certainly the El Macombo and its legendary status and power to him because it will be still standing through all of this. Now, sadly, his mother passed away michael weckerley's mother passed away recently uh his mother's uh was teaching at my high school when i was there so i know there's my small world connection to michael wecker no kidding yeah yeah uh calamity james wants to know if you still run marathons i i never did run a marathon i used to be a runner i was a runner but i you know i didn't do that 10k runs is that what we're doing or yeah you know the i did the fun runs or the sun runs or the charity runs and then for a while there and this is not i'm talking over 10 years ago

matt and i the drummer that was our thing we'd get to you know a gig and then we go for a while there and this is not i'm talking over 10 years ago matt and i the drummer that was our thing we'd get to you know a gig and then we go for a good 10 15k run and then you know get ready for the show but the knees just don't do what they used to do but okay that's i guess when you go for a bike ride let's say you wanted to go for a bike ride today how what kind of distance would you go for like by default what would be your approximate distance do you know um you know i go for about an hour an hour and a half so that's anywhere 20 to 30k depending on the route but you know i'm still more of a i like to look around too right i like to take in the sights i'm not one of those you know racer guys the tour guys here what did you say there at the end sorry i have all the gear i look like that guy you know, racer guys. The Tour de France guys.

What did you say there at the end? Sorry. I have all the gear. I look like that guy. But, you know, I have fun. I do see the guys dressed like that. And sometimes I'll be going at what I feel is pretty quick. As far as the fastest I'll go anyway, it's 25 kilometers an hour. And these guys zoom by me.

They must be going 40, like on flat land, 40K at least. And I think, yeah, you don't see a lot doing that. I guess you do cover more ground in a shorter distance. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. I do like to take in the sights a little more. And then around where I am, there's all this gorgeous farmland. Right. So that's kind of cool.

By the way, Calamity James, not Jane. If I said that, I meant James. He wants to know if you have a big crazy can he have a big crazy reissue of Trusted by Millions he wants B-sides demos and what not that'd be awesome

they're out there like the B-sides and there's the British release that was in the cigarette can holder but yeah nothing new is planned There's the British release that was in the cigarette can holder. But yeah, nothing new is planned. Basement Dweller wants to know, what did Don Smith bring to you musically?

Okay, because he produced albums after, oh, Dear Dear, yeah, which is his favorite album. Basement Dweller's favorite 5440 album is Dear Deer. Do you have any stories? Like maybe did Don Smith share some great story of working with The Hip or The Stones or Cracker or anything like that? Yeah, I mean, he did share some stuff, obviously, with The Hip in New Orleans. And, you know, I talked to The Hip guys before we worked with Don Smith because I really liked his sound.

It's funny, when I heard that Hip record hip record the first one I recognized the sound and I went that's got to be the same engineer that did Tom Petty and whatever else and of course sure enough it was and so when I talked to those guys I said well what do you think you'd work with us and then I think it was Gord Sinclair said you'd be perfect for you guys. So based on he, you know, he's the one who gave us the introduction to Don Smith and we sort of went at him from there. And he's a, he was, you know, he's a very cool, or was a very cool mellow guy. And I remember the, the greatest thing that, you know, he imparted to us,

like every time you work with producer, you always sort of get a little something out from each one or a little gold nugget of advice or whatever and his whole thing was a song a great song never it just has to feel good and he gave us a countless examples of songs that tempo would change or the pitch was a bit weird or you know it did some weird stuff in the tuning of the guitar or whatever like under my thumb stones or you know he'd play him out on the highway whatever that song is by neil young and you know you just they just all feel good right and and that was always his his vibe was like once it felt good he'd stop and it wasn't about was it in time or he didn't have the meter he didn't have he didn't have somebody checking the tuning.

It was all pre-Pro Tools and all that stuff, right? Right. And I'll never forget that. If it just feels good, yeah, then that's it, man. I think that's a Sloan song, man. If it feels good, do it. Is that the Sloan song? Yeah.

Well, I've heard that phrase many times. Yeah. I guess there is nothing many times. Yeah. I guess there is nothing new under the sun. Beck, big fan of yours, big fan of yours. What band

is at the top of your to-see bucket list? Like, is there a band out there you haven't seen that's number one on your bucket list

to see live? Gosh. I'm going to add in the part that they have to be alive alive like i don't want to hear bob marley or something yeah so i can't think i mean i've seen most of my heroes that i was able to see while they were alive um so there isn't anybody left really. Um, you know, I, I haven't seen, uh, Bob Seger, which would be fun. I don't know if he can still sing. I had never seen radio head, which apparently is a good show.

Um, and, uh, so, you know, like I said, most of the, you know, I saw Led zeppelin in 1977 and queen in 1980 and you know all these things that are great stevie wonder in 1974 so at the height of his powers yeah so i saw i saw a lot of great great music on the internet i saw the jam at the commodore and i saw the clash and you know in small clubs and so i pretty much covered most of my heroes i mean obviously like you say the ones like bob marley it's the people that i haven't seen because they've now passed away i can't do so anybody's still around no other than you know it wouldn't kill me not to see radiohead right well this is good news neil. Like it's you're, you've done it. Like no one, no one. I can stop now.

All right. And I wish your daughter were on the line. Cause I'm about to ask her some questions about a family curse, but first last question from the listeners, Jeff Paulson wants me to ask you about the karaoke night in Hawaii. That's a funny one. Yeah. So, this is about five,

six years ago. Actually, I don't know. I like to think about that. So, I went to Maui with my wife, which we like to do every so often. And,

split stay in this area called Kihei, which is on the West side. And it's kind of a funky three-story condos, you know, not the big hotels or anything like that. It's a little more funky. And one of her friends was there, happened to be there. So we all got together and they really wanted to do karaoke. And we went into this Monday night karaoke thing. And there was probably about 15 people in this club at the time.

And all the other people there were hardcore karaoke. One guy was dressed up like he was in The Matrix and somebody was dressed up like, I don't know, like a cowboy. And they all knew each other, you could tell. And they were all trying their wares for, I don't know, maybe a big professional contest. I don't know, like a cowboy. And it was just, and they all knew each other. You could tell. And they were all trying their wares for, I don't know, maybe a big professional contest. I don't know. We were just there having, you know, margaritas and trying to have fun,

which we were doing. And they got up, my wife and her friend, they got up there and, you know, saying, whatever it is, don't go breaking my heart. I won't go breaking your heart. Kiki D and elton john right yeah that one yeah and you know they were they're giggling and laughing and stuff like that and so i looked through the book and there's hootie and the blowfish i go blind right so the the little blonde bimbo who was running the show says okay next up it's gonna be neil

he's gonna sing hootie and you love fish i go blind and you gotta remember there's like about four people clapping and 15 people not in the place and and i got up there and i said well i wrote this and i sang the song it was okay you know i did a quick okay version my wife and her friend were laughing their heads off and then i looked back and there's my name and the clapping was about four people like yeah well no one believed you that was the problem it was funny it was it was priceless i might have made a few bucks from doing it who knows you know good job there that's that's a great story so thank you jeff for prompting that story now i actually am going to flip this a bit we're going to play some better man uh and then we're going to talk about your daughter and then we're going to bring it into

a family curse here now so let's and again i i could be blowing smoke up your ass neil because i have i have two daughters if somebody told me they were talented i'd be filled with this great pride but there's no bullshit here. This is great. So let me play some Better Man and we'll talk about it. Okay. I don't want your attention I just wanted respect

But you have no intention To be a stand-up guy yet You stole my creations You're still my biggest threat Held me down with open legs And a weight on my chest No wonder I feel ashamed I was sucked into your game

Dancing darkly on a line that you won't ever cross again I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, ooh I would make a better man than you I would make a better man than you Now you've got to be proud listening to that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She's a great writer, great singer, great producer. Now give us, again, this is where I would talk to Candle,

but apparently there's another interview more important than Toronto Mike. I find this difficult to believe. First, let me just tell the listeners who don't know about your daughter's career that candles with a K, I feel that's important here. Yeah, candle with a K, K-A-N-D-L-E, yeah. So when you're looking for this and you're Googling this

and you're digging up more candle Osborne, make sure you put candle with a K. Neil, on behalf of your daughter, do you want to give us a little, like tell us what we're listening to and just a little bit of anything about the Candle Osborne solo career? Yeah, so Candle, she's been doing this, oh gosh, at least 10 years now, you know, since she's a teenager. This song is Better Man. It just came out this week or last late last week it's her newest single she's got an ep coming out i think next week uh it's a strong tune essentially about you know the male dominated well world more for one thing

but also the music industry and how how much of a struggle it is for a woman to be taken seriously in the business side of things. She also just finished an album, like she was mentioning, I think at the top of this, where she was in Vancouver and the whole COVID thing came out. And that's coming out, I think, in the fall. And that's just genius, that record.

It's going to be so cool. Does it have a title yet um I don't know no I don't think that there's a single called no good on it and there's like this these two bond theme songs that are just majestic and like sound like Shirley Bassey or something so she's really evolved as an artist and a singer and a writer especially so um yeah i just i'm just in awe of where she's taken this um so yeah yeah great voice it's a great voice and uh and that's a catchy tune too and it's uh yeah hopefully uh hopefully she's inundated with interview requests because it's some good stuff. All right, now tell me about the origin of a family curse. Is it just simply like you're a talented guy, you love your daughter,

she's a talented singer in her own right, let's try to do something together? How does a family curse come to be? Yeah, the family curse essentially started, like I said, a couple of years ago. It was funny because there's four of us in the tight nucleus of our family. And my wife had to visit her mom because she had an operation. And my other daughter was in Los Angeles and Canada was in Montreal. So we were all for Christmas apart.

So I just sort of said to Candle, I was on the phone with her. I said, well, I got this tune, but I don't know what to sing on it. You know, you got an idea. And I know she's done this. She does this for other people. Like she's done it for a couple of DJs in Europe and stuff like that. And it's done quite well. Or she just sings a top line over it.

And I said, well, what would you sing to this? Right. Anyway, it came back to the song called in every town that's on the record. And I went, whoa,

this is really cool. So we decided to just keep going. I, you know, I was, I was, I was getting into playing slide guitar and getting into the vintage blues sound.

And, you know, what I would sing would just sound sort of like stupid little white guy singing blues in a bar. And what she did to it was a whole new thing. And I was just going, wow, I never would have thought of that. I never would have thought of that melody. I never would have thought of those words. And so I'd throw stuff at her, and then she'd send the vocals back.

And then I had, believe it or not, these four tunes kicking around instrumentally that Danny Michelle and I did together. So he played piano and drums and I played bass and guitar when we were jamming around one time and I gave her those and she sang over those and did a great job on some of those tunes too. And Danny's thrilled too. So we can't wait to put the band together when this is over get out there let you know we did briefly talk off the top and we talked

about that sound you know that it's like a new mexico i there's got to be a word for this kind of sound but it just sounds like again i i call it the breaking bad sound because it has that that's a new albuquerque americana desert vibe. Yeah, sort of an Americana desert vibe. Yeah. Joshua Tree. Yeah. Pioneer Town. Let's play a little desert blues and then a little more about a family curse here. Here's a desert blues.

Here's desert blues. guitar solo I'm running through the desert I haven't had a drink in days I'm burning up a fever But I'm gonna die unless I get away My baby tried to shoot me Pointed right at my face I screamed you're crazy I ran out the door He started to chase So the Neil and Candle Osborne band is a family curse.

That's Desert Blues. And do you guys have a family curse album ready to drop? Yeah, there's an album. That song was released, I guess, a couple of weeks ago. It did quite well. We've got a video coming out tomorrow. We'll do a couple more singles, and then the album will be out.

And we've got to remember, yeah, this is kind of a fun thing. In that band, we're different characters. We use some personas, so she's got more of a southern thing going on. And her name's Kiz Wiz, and my name's Miz Wiz. And that's what she's called me ever since I can remember.

I was instead of Neil, I was Miz. And so I would call her Kiz. And then, you know, we'd give ourselves Wiz as the last name. That's cute. I like that. I like that. Do you have any... I'm asking a final question.

I'm calling an audible on the line of scrimmage here. Any political aspirations for you? I'm asking a final question I'm calling an audible on the line of scrimmage here any political aspirations for you? would you ever consider running for politics? well I did in Victoria for mayor which

my wife threatened me if I couldn't but the city was expanding too much. Too many condoms were being built. And it was getting out of hand as far as real estate prices and all these changes. And I had this campaign of do nothing. Like, let's just stop everything for four years.

No new anything. You know, the garbage will still get collected. The police will still, you know, serve and protect or whatever. And so it would be just like no more anything. And a lot of people like that idea, but I didn't go with it. Because when 5440 played the horseshoe, I guess in December, Sam Cash opened the show. And that's, of course, that's Andrew Cash's son.

And Andrew's one of those rock guys who went into politics. Yeah. I mean, I'm associated with a bunch of people, especially more on the left side things, not in all of them, mind you. And it seems, I don't know, it seems messy. It's so much bullshit to try and get something that is like, fuck it. Neal, thanks so much for your time today, man. I took a little extra. I hope you're not mad at

me for that, but I could do another. No, no, no no it's good yeah do another hour uh you don't have a crystal ball i wish you did because then i would ask you uh when can when can you you know perform live but you have no idea like the rest of us because brian tilly a fan of yours and a fan of toronto mike wants to know when you're coming to play san diego and la and i felt like writing to to Brian, how the hell is Neil going to know? My other daughter lives down there, so I'm dying to get down there and see her. Did she consider coming up? Did she ever consider coming

back to BC? Not yet. She's got her life down there and doesn't want to forfeit it yet. You know, she's, she's got her, her life down there and doesn't want to, you know, forfeit it yet. And it's going well.

She's a, she's a chef. She did quite well. I mean, personal chef. So she's still got some work, but yeah, no,

not yet. Well, it sounds like you're a proud Papa and you're, you know, 54, 40 great band. So many of us are such lifelong fans. So thank you for the music. Well, it sounds like you're a proud papa and you're, you know, 5440. Great band. So many of us are such lifelong fans.

So thank you for the music and thank you for this conversation. Yeah, no worries. Thank you. Thanks for keeping it alive, especially these days. And that brings us to the end of our 685th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Neil is at Neil O 5440.

Candle is at Candle Osborne. Remember, Candle is with a K. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Pumpkins After Dark are at Pumpkins Dark. And Garbage Day are at garbageday.com slash Toronto Mike.

See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.