Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Patrick Pentland: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1654

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

In this 1654th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Patrick Pentland about joining Sloan, hits he's written, and the band's place in Canadian rock history. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

It would help if I turned up the pod. Here we go. I'm standing on skates for Canada. Hi, this is Ron McLean. It's an honor to welcome you to Team Canada, where we all have a position on defense to buy Canadian products, support Canadian businesses, and protect Canadian workers. We all know what it means when it says Canada on the sweater. Let's make sure it says Canada on the label. Shop as if your country depends on it. Keep your money in Canada for Canada. Welcome to episode 1654 of Toronto Miked!

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Construction Management Inc. and Ridlee Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, making his Toronto mic debut, is Patrick Pentland from Sloan. Welcome, Patrick. Thanks for having me. Well, thanks for being here. Did I hear you correct that you wanted to vet where you were going? Is that right?

You made a phone call to Chris Murphy to make sure that you weren't in any trouble? I think it was more, I think I was being asked if I could do something today and I said, no, I can't. I got to go out to Etobicoke and to do the podcast and he's always, you're doing this one. So he says, So did I, I just need to know right now, now Patrick did I get the Chris Murphy seal of approval yeah I think he gave you like a eight eight point five out of ten now I don't know

yeah no he's I expect better I said I'd have fun so I want you to witness this who can I don't know if you can see him here I'm receiving a call I'm not gonna answer it but Anne Romer is calling me. Do you know Anne Romer? I don't know. Anne Romer hosted breakfast television for long. Okay. She was on CP 24 and stuff. Well, I should know it. I just wanted a witness that Anne Romer is calling me. So I hope the FOTM listening are taking note here, but I have more important people to talk to than Anne Romer right now. You, my friend, I mean so much ground I got to cover with you, but I just want to read a note that came in when I said Patrick was making his Toronto Mike debut. By the way, do you do a lot of these? Like do you do a lot of these deep dives?

You mean interviews? Yeah, like longer interviews? No, not that much. I do, I have like a Patreon, so I talk a lot about things and I'll get into things there, but I, no normally it's Chris and Jay do all the talking. That's well that's my perception because you know Jay's been over here Chris a couple of times it seems like they're the they're in front like they're the PR for the band it seems like I see a lot of Chris and Jay but I don't see as much Patrick I just wondered if you enjoyed this kind of thing. I do but I'm just not asked to do that. See I don't see a star structure in Sloan. Like I'm just a fan forever. Oh, I see.

Well, I see it as four equals. Like I never see anybody as a, you know, there's bands like Pursuit of Happiness where you say, oh, that's Moe Berg's band. Right. That's not the case of Sloan. Maybe not, but I do think that, you know, I have a history of not necessarily being dependable.

So that could be why I'm not asked to do things so they know that I might not show up. But, or as you've asked me to be on this a few times, and I've been, Oh yeah, I should do that. And I just completely skips. I wonder if you remember that. Oh yeah, no, for sure. It's come up and then I was just like, Oh yeah, right. I should get back. And then I just don't do it. So... What made you do it this time?

I got... I got an email from... What's what's his name from elephant stars. Oh yeah. Manfred Manfred. That's right. And, uh, he was saying that he had, you guys had been maybe talking about me somehow and, and, um, and then I was like, yes, I'll do it now. So I got in touch this time.

Yeah. Okay. Manfred. Absolutely. So Manfred wrote me because, uh, he's a big fan of fuzz fuzzed out. Oh, right. So, and later we'll, I'm going to play a little fuzz out and talk to you about it, but I got to say shout out to Manfred from elephants and stars that he made this happen.

And I've been working on this for a long time. Okay. Well, yeah, he's cool. So that's good. He's a cool cat. Okay. Lee for eight, Lee for 1984, when he heard you were making your Toronto mic debut wrote and just said, this is Lee for his opinion.

He writes the best songwriter in the band. Is there this is first question off the top and then we'll go back and we'll kind of, you know, we'll get to it. But is there any internal band competition or any spirit of competition over who writes the big, the hits or who writes the better songs? writes the big the hits or who writes the better songs? I think that well hits are not necessarily the better songs. Right. You know radio songs there's a reasons why certain songs are picked often because you had success with one before that sounds like it you know what I mean and so but I do think that there

are different we have we do write right different styles and so to compare things sometimes isn't isn't accurate but uh... you know we also we don't just write them but we kind of produce them uh... individually so like my song sound a certain way because that's the way i produce things and whereas andrew songs or jays you know they do sound quite different so that the idea isn't so much who writes better songs but it's almost like who's the better band and within the band. But, uh, no, no, I, I think, uh, I know that I write the best songs. So that's all I care.

I don't care what other people's opinions. Well, listen, that's what matters is that you look in the mirror and you're like, I am somebody I wrote this song, but well, and the other thing too, which Chris will often bring up is that we just split the publishing four ways anyway, so it kind of doesn't matter. And then, okay, so when there's a nice tea commercial, yeah, like, you know, the commercial I'm talking about, like one of your songs all over it. That's a four way split.

Well that's honest. I mean, I take credit for that song is I kind of produced that song and did the bulk of it, but Chris and I kind of co-wrote the Chris came up with parts for that song too but anyway yeah yeah and so that song's a bit of a cash cow and that's the one that works for us you know for it's been in commercials and different things so you know I've been through this in my head a little bit because I have written a lot of songs that have been on the radio and stuff and I you know if I'd gotten some of them are co-writes for sure but if I'd gotten the money I might have gotten if I was the only songwriter I

would be very much more rich you know or rich at all but then when you go through it it's like the way that we have a band or how how I'm able to even do that or two of us are able to do that is because of everybody else and what they've done and so you know at some point how nitpicky are you going to get about stuff like that? And I'm happy that we've been able to do it together and I'm happy that everybody contributes very quality material. So it doesn't really matter who wrote what. Quite a collective. I mean, I've cherry picked four songs. So one, two, three. Yeah, precisely four songs that I'm going to be playing and asking you about as we get into this Patrick. And these are four Patrick songs, obviously. But like I said off the top, I know when I think of Sloan and I've loved Sloan since I heard on CFNY, I heard Underwhelmed one day and it was like, love it first, listen, get smeared. Let's go but and we'll go actually one of the songs of yours

I pulled is pre pre smeared. So we're gonna go way back with that, but I Absolutely think of Sloan as a four-headed beast if you will no no part more important than any other part and kudos to you because In the not so secret FOTM chat earlier today. We were trying to think of bands that are still active That have their original lineup intact like I'm talking for some circuiters I'm gonna discount like trios, but you guys have 35 years of the same four guys like this is no small feat Like that's awesome It is I don't think Well, I mean it's not like I mean we have done things to try to keep us everybody happy. I don't think we were. Well, I mean, it's not like, I mean, we have done

things to try to keep us, everybody happy and we don't often, we don't always get along. Um, but, uh, yeah, no, I mean, I, the, the idea would be if somebody had left and then somebody else comes in and then there's another drummer and then, or another bass player or another guitar player and then, and then, you know, like it just becomes, then it just becomes about a couple of people who are left behind and it's not really the same thing. And, and I think it would be different if like, who's the, can you name me the bass player Maroon five? No, no. So like, but they may be the original guys too,

but they're not writing songs and singing songs and doing things like that. That's why it's different for us is because we're four front men fronting four different bands within the one band. If it was just somebody playing the keyboards in the background or something, it might not be as important, but it's very important for us. Cause if, if, if one of us, if I left or if Andrew left or something, when we've been unhappy, it wouldn't be the same band anymore. We would just be, it wouldn't be the same band. Like we could go out and do it. We could get a new drummer or a new guitar player

or a new bass player, but like it just wouldn't be the same thing. So it is kind of, it is very valuable even as friends too, cause more than friends, we're like family. We're like brothers or cousins. Like we don't always get along, but like you sometimes have to just let, like they've definitely given me space at times when I've needed it error. And so,

uh, and then that's helped to keep things together. I think sometimes you just have to step away from people. Okay. So we're going to step back and then kind of walk through things chronologically. And I won't keep you for six, seven hours, although you made the mistake of telling me that you've got lots of, well, I like talking about myself. Well, listen, I want to talk about you. I want to do this. So we're going to go back, maybe share with me. And I know you're born in Ireland. So how old are you when you come to Canada? I was about five. Okay. Pretty damn young. But when do you fall in love with music? Like when do you have that moment where

it's like, I want to make it go with this. Oh to play music? Yeah. I was probably, I was probably, well I played music for a little while before I thought about maybe I could do this for a living. My father played in what in Ireland is called show bands but like kind of cover bands, rock bands and in the in the 60s and into the 70 And so, and I remembered that from being a kid. And then by the time we'd moved to Canada from Northern Ireland, he had stopped doing that. And I always felt that he had sort of maybe stepped away from something that he really meant a lot to him.

And so I wasn't gonna do anything else because I didn't know how to do anything else. You know, I had gone to university, but I didn't, I wasn't getting any degree I could use. I't know how to do anything else. You know, I had gone to university, but I didn't, I wasn't getting any degree I could use. I started getting a journalism degree and then I stopped that. And then it was just like, uh, I was playing, but, but the actual thing of wanting to play music was probably actually listening to

records when I was, when I was a little kid and there was a, there was a record, a KTL record called the rock album. And that was, I got that and it had, I mean, you look at that, but I had like sticks and journey and April wine and it was all these sort of kind of FM hard rock, like not really hard rock stuff. And I loved it. And then, you know, it was that air that time. I think around 90 is a maritime span.

That's right. And, and, and then there was a radio station that played that type of stuff as well that started up around maybe, maybe a bit earlier, but Q one oh two, you know, four, you know what? Pardon me. I knew it was a cue something. Because John Gallagher was there and yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, but then the thing, I think the thing changed when I was probably in university playing in punk bands, discovering punk meant that it was, or even discovering ACDC, which is quite similar to punk. Like it's basic, simple music and it was attainable and you could do it. And I had started to play guitar. Like it was, you know, at that time, like all kids were all like white males where they were into like iron maiden and then a bit later I'm a Italian stuff.

So I started to learn how to play guitar and that's how, that's what I was learning to play. But then when I discovered hardcore and I was to learn how to play guitar and that's how, that's what I was learning to play. But then when I discovered hardcore, and I was able to actually really play it, like write those songs, it was like, now we can play shows. And so that's when I started playing live with my friends and, and, and I, you know, continued on until I was in Sloan. The band you were in with Cliff Gibb, is that called happy co?

Well, I was in a band prior to that called convulsions hardcore band with him Or ripping convulsions, but we just called convulsions and we recorded some demo stuff, which Chris is insistent gets released and And then good like it's well You know we thought we were we thought we were minor threat or circle jerks But we were really just like SOD or Jerks, but we were really just like SOD or chromags. Like it was just kind of metal hardcore, but we didn't really know that at the time. And then, no, Happy Co came after, Happy Co was more serious in that, Convulsions was sort of maybe

when I was leaving high school and then like my first year university, and then Happy Co just started off that, and in that band we thought we were Dinosaur Jr., you know, Sonic Youth or something like that, but we were really more like Dagnasty with more distortion or like maybe a little Hyskardoo. Like we love that type of stuff. There's a lot of droney stuff and it was fast. It was kind of just hardcore. But we played a few shows as well. Like between those two bands, we played about seven shows in Halifax, which was pretty good and for nobody knowing who the hell we were. And then, and then I kind of stopped because and because because cliff went off to school and so

we weren't, I didn't want to play with anybody else. So then when he was gone, yeah, he was kind of my partner. He's been like one of my best friends and dearest friends and so he's kind of a musical partner for a while But then that kind of came to an end his because no happy co no Sloan. Yeah Yeah, I mean the Chris and Jay were I knew them a little bit and they knew of happy co and they may be seeing us one time or something and and Cliff or Chris had seen us had seen convulsions and so they had a bank called Kerney Lake Road and they had put some stuff tapes out and they'd done a bit of touring they played some shows and I really thought they were great and then I heard a record that they'd recorded that didn't get released. And I was like oh my God and so that also gave me a feeling of like, maybe we could do something.

Maybe I could do something in music to sound like this. But we all lived in Halifax, Nova Scotia, and this is in the late 80s, early 90s. And so there was not a hope in hell of anything ever happening with anything you're gonna do. So the only thing would be to move to Montreal. That would be the closest music scene. And so-

Well, that's what April Wine did. Right. I mean, we were doing it to be on cargo or something, you know, with punk bands, Doughboys and stuff, but they, yes. I'm gonna ask you about Doughboys, don't worry. Okay. But they, yeah, no, you're right though.

That was the music scene you would have to go to. Toronto, to me Toronto was just like, it was just like Guns N' Roses type guys or something. I didn't want to go to Toronto, but Montreal was all like punk. So in my mind, that's what would have happened. But yeah, the idea of doing is that like a slick toxic reference? Yeah, something like that. I can't think of the bands, but they were to be in yeah. And I'm thinking what's

Sebastian Bach? What was he doing? Skid Row, skid row or something like that. Okay. I think he was in a band before that called Madamax. Oh, he's from Peterborough. So I guess he ended up here. Okay, Gasworks and all that stuff. Yeah, I don't. I didn't. I would. I've I didn't go to Gasworks and I know Rock Pile is still open. I believe there's some bands play there like killer dwarves and stuff, but that that was okay. So Rock Pile was like the concert here, right? But now it's here, but it was a mother's pizza when I was growing up. Oh, I get the mother's pizza became the rock pile.

Yeah, if you want to see Lee Aaron, you might, you might catch her there. Yeah. Or killer dwarves. Yeah. Which both are great. Yeah. I love killer dwarves. I mean, I used to watch a lot of the Pepsi power hour.

And well, that's, that's the thing. I mean, that was so popular for that period of time, but to me, all those bands were from here and I was, you know, there's a difference between killer doors and minor threat. But we did have that other scene, the, I call it like the blue rodeo Queen street scene going on. The horseshoe. Yeah.

Yeah. Like you had, well, that is another thing I didn't want to be a part of. Maybe you didn't hear me. I said, why are you a threat? So you, you, you, you, you made a go of it in Halifax. I mean, I guess I'm now interested in how you end up in Sloan and is there essentially, is there a Sloan before you get there? Well, I think I ended up in it because it was a, there weren't that many musicians that

could do, could play properly or could play what they were thinking about doing. I think. And, but there were, I think they had rehearsed one time with another guy, this guy, Lucas Pierce, and it was not a good fit. And then now I would like to believe that was just because they hadn't gotten in touch with me yet or they didn't feel comfortable doing it. But you know, eventually Chris kind of asked me, corner me some record store, something and asked me if I wanted to come and hang out and he gave me a tape that Andrew and he had just

rattled off quickly. And then, and then I played with them. I learned the songs, I showed up knowing everything. I brought a bass, a bass amp and a heavy metal pedal, a boss heavy metal pedal. And so I just played really fuzzed out bass, which they weren't doing. And I knew the songs. And when I left, this was in Andrew's basement. I'd never met Andrew. And when I left, I was just like, cause I had kind of given up playing music and saying I wanted to finish school. And I was just like, Holy shit, this could

actually be something good. Like I, you know, my first reaction. Wow. So you remember that first show with Sloan? Well, this is the first rehearsal, right? And I don't remember the first. No, no, I do remember the first. Yeah, no, I remember all of it. Where was like, so can you tell me a little, I'm going to play a jam from the peppermint EP in a moment here, a Patrick Jam, which also ends up on smmear. And so it's a great song. Actually, you probably agree with that. Okay. But, uh, do you tell me like, what do you remember

about the first time you played? So you, Chris Murphy, Jay Ferguson, and Andrew Scott. Yeah. The first show was at show. Well, cause Andrew and Chris were going to the Nova Scotia college of art and design and they had a dance. So we were playing that with a couple of other bands. scotia college of art and design and they had a dance so we were playing that with a couple of other bands I believe Lucas who played that first rehearsal it was his the new the band he'd formed as well so he was in I think he played it but and we just kind of because they had kind of we basically what we were doing is mainly playing songs Chris had written and he, they just didn't know. I don't think they understood how to make the noise that they wanted to make

cause they're very, or back then they were very, um, you know, what's the word I want to say? They, I, whatever, I'm the kind of guy who will plug into distortion pills and turn them all the way up and see what that sounds like. They would never even think to do that. And so they wanted to get feedback and all this stuff and they wanted to sound like my Bloody Valentine and that's sort of or even like the grungy sound whatever. And so I was doing that on the bass which changed things but so anyway when we went in to do it it was like they're kind of cleaner guitars. I was

going loud on the bass and then Andrew was just Andrew had only been playing drums for a little while and he was already the best drummer I'd ever seen. And and we just did a ton of noise and feedback and it was just smoke and strobe lights and it went on for about I don't know probably 10 minutes and and it was chaos and I was just like this is amazing. Do you have any recollection of what song she played. I would I think we play a song called Caroline. We probably played underwhelmed, but it was a different version of it. There might have been a song called inter place maybe and

we didn't do the one you're talking about. Yeah, I wrote that a little bit later, but we right. I don't think we did that until until the peppermint record was. Okay. We're going to talk about the peppermint EP and I will play that exact song, but I now realize I had this great idea earlier today. So earlier today I'm like, okay, Patrick's coming over from Sloan. This is very exciting. And I'm like, Oh my goodness.

It's the first day of spring. And I'm like, I'm going to open the show with some Gandharvas. This was my big idea, Patrick. Okay. So I forgot to do it, but I just want to get a little Gandharvas in the mix here because I'll tell you, I love Sloan, but I fucking love this song. Yeah. I like this song. I remember I haven't heard it in a long, long time. Okay. Let's listen together a little bit. Then I'll give you your gifts now and then we're going to get into sugar tune and go. there a little bit then I'll give you your gifts now and then we're gonna get into sugar tune and go just want you to hang in my basement and listen to jams I'm panatonic, I'm feeling supersonic

A warm wind is sweeping by, the sun's full in the sky And there's no way of knowing, no way to know, know how long it'll last. No way of knowing, no way to know, know how long it'll last. Every year the first day of spring I kick out this jam and it still sounds great. I just just dig the sound man dig the sound here. Let me just do this and then we're going to get the sugar to and I got to give you a large lasagna from palm of pasta. Do you enjoy Italian food, Patrick? I do. Okay, good answer. Good answer. I made some last night. I was right. Okay. How many kids you got

three? Okay, I could beat you. I got four kids. So get out of here. I just can't. So there's some lasagna in my freezer. Don't leave with out it. I also have some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery for you, Patrick. Okay, well, I don't know if I'll have them, but I know people who will. Everyone knows somebody who enjoys a fresh can of craft beer and the most delicious craft beer in this province belongs to Great Lakes Brewery. So you're not a beer guy? No, I'm not drinking these days. So you're okay, so you're not drinking at all. Okay, well make sure you don't drink that. Give that to a buddy or

somebody. Okay, and I have a measuring tape for you, Patrick, from Ridley Funeral Home. Oh, that's good. I do at some point plan to probably need this. It always come in handy. You got to measure something. So you got that. Thank you Ridley Funeral Home. Life's Undertaken is the name of Brad Jones' podcast at Ridley Funeral Home. Speaking of podcasts, there's a podcast called Building Toronto Skyline from Nick Ienies.

I'm listening to the song in the background and I know it's about the kick up a notch right here. I think that Gandarva should have been a bigger deal. What's going on here? Okay, I think he's a scientist now. I reached out to get the guy from Gandarva's on because I wanted to talk and he's like I'm an important scientist on the West Coast doing like important scientific research or something, like too busy for me. What's going on there?

Okay. Nick Aynes, his podcast is called Building Toronto Skyline. Subscribe, enjoy. Thank you to Nick from Fusion Corp. And last but not least, I would like to shout out RecycleMyElectronics.ca because Patrick, if you have a room or a drawer, maybe an entire home filled with old electronics, old cables, old devices that don't work anymore, don't throw it in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca

and put in your postal code and find out where to drop it off. You got it Patrick? I'll do my best to scour. Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Okay, Gendarvars going to take us into Sloan. Here we go. I wrote for you this sugar tube To help you do what you gotta do When your arms are down and you fall in a daze Remember how I made these sounds Sounds, sounds So obviously this is the Peppermint EP version of Sugar Tunes. Obviously. Tell me about the song.

By the way, it's a great fucking song. So please tell me. What's it about? Yeah. What's it about? Yeah, what's it about? Yeah, give me anything. I feel like I was thinking about this because we did this record recently and I was thinking about the lyrics because I hadn't thought of it a long time and anyway, it's sort of about a girlfriend that I had at that time or prior to Sloan and

then she was moving away and so and I Didn't want her to move away So I wrote this song that basically to make her feel really bad about moving away but you know then it became something else and it wasn't really about that I mean I don't know what it what it means it's too long is the problem oh that's it so that's interesting insight you if you could do have a do-over this would be a shorter song yeah I think so I'm I mean these days I try to cut the fat on everything. I mean you know some things are fun to leave in but or I'm not sure I don't think I would do it this way. I mean you're under four minutes. Well in my mind that our rule of thumb is the perfect

length is three minutes so it's an hour it's a minute too long. And there is a song we're gonna play later that's two minutes. This part doesn't have to be this long like it's. I mean he does is the o there, which is nice. Yeah, I don't really know how you would cut it down, so it's perfect. You're right. Absolutely perfect. Don't no notes don't change a thing, but you know you talk. You talked about like a hardcore American hardcore and some of this like all those songs were like two minutes or whatever, right?

So it's- 30 seconds. 30 seconds, right. Minute and a half. But you do, again. We're gonna play, spoiler alert, there will be a song we're gonna play next that's just a little over two minutes.

If Humble and Fred had to get to news at the top of the hour. Yeah, that made that song perfect. You had two options. You had the next song I'm gonna play and you had song two by Blur. Yeah. Those are your two go-to here. Okay so give me a little bit because you know you like to talk about yourself so I'd love to know just a little bit about the Peppermint EP and how it leads to Smeared. I mean just any insight. Well it's just what happened was we we came second place in a in a battle of the bands

Contest which was outrageous and then Cool blue halo who Cliff Gibb ended up playing drums in later when he decided to get into playing music again. And so Well after he was in Thrust from it anyway, um So Well, after he was in Thrustroom. Anyway, so our thing was we won some time in the studio. And so we had some songs. And so we went in and Chris and Jay put up some money, I think, to do more recording. And so we just recorded a bunch of songs that we had. And then by the time we were going on our first cross Canada tour, we were already being kind of,

there was already some interest in us without having left Nova Scotia, Halifax. And so we felt like we needed to have, we went across the country. We kind of knew that we were going to have some record coming out, but it was clear that the record wasn't going to come out for probably a year. And we had a bunch of touring we wanted to do. So we just took a hand four or five of those songs and, and put together this peppermint EP, but it was mainly just to have something to sell on the road. Sure.

And then it kind of got released to Indian record stores and it became that first release. And then our, our, cause we were waiting, uh, we were waiting for, uh, well in Canada it would be MCA, but in the States we were waiting for Gaffin to Release this this like that smeared record was done By the time we ended finished record or finish touring it It was like two two and a half years of something of that record like from when we started doing this recording it So yeah

so that so there's not really a big difference a difference between the two the EP and the record is that the record was on Geffen and it was completely mixed by Dave Ogilvie. This was just mixed by us and Terry Pulliam in Halifax. Okay, very cool. Now I'm going to skip an album because I was going to jump to one chord to another, but it's worth twice removed. Was it Chart that called it the greatest Canadian album of all time, or am I misremembering that? Well, when it came out, I would imagine Chart shit all over it, because everybody did. And then nobody liked that record. And we didn't, the singles we wanted to put out,

they weren't really, and then the label in America didn't really support it. And so Yes, but then and it but I think eventually because of that story we broke up and then we got back together again I think we it became a bit of an underdog Record and I also think that what happened with you know, Brit pop and everything it kind of fit in with that too And all of a sudden people were like, oh my they were geniuses all along this is the greatest album I don't know I kind of feel like maybe they're just trying to piss Neil Young off but and then it slipped down and then it went back up again so that it

was named that twice it's worth noting that but it's not but what do you think is the greatest Canadian album of all time signals Signals by Rush. Okay. No, I don't know. Okay, I was- Anything by Rush. Anything by Rush, okay, wow. Now, it's worth noting again that Smeared was sort of, we were talking about Halifax, like it was the grunge capital of Canada, right?

This was Seattle because of the grungy sounds on Smeared. Which I never thought was grungy at all. I mean, I think the story wasn't so much the sound is, I mean, it was kind of the sound, but it was also because of the Seattle connection. It's not LA. It's not New York. Yeah. So it's just like, it's, it's just this little indie town, this little cute town

on the, on the coast. And so were we. So they came from that too. And there was a whole scene with jail and thrush her men and stuff. Like there was a whole scene happen. You had a scene. Yeah, they kind of came a lot. Those bands came along while thrush are kind of going anyway, I think. And jail came along a little bit later, but yeah, we started, we kind of started that scene for sure with, um, with a handful

of other bands that maybe two, two other bands or something. And then, and yeah, and then it became a bigger thing and we had a label, and so we were trying to help these bands out. Yeah, and I guess some of those bands, for sure, Grunge was the predominant sound, for sure. I always just felt that the record sounded a bit more shoe gazey than it sounded Grunge. Do you think Coke's Me sounds like the real statics Claire? I'm not that familiar with Claire, but I don't

think that would have been intentional. I'm sure he wasn't either. I asked the Dini the same question. I'm just trying to I try. You know, you got to stir up a little shit in the Canadian. No, I'm sure I've heard it. I just I probably don't, but I wouldn't recognize it to be related to coax me. All right, so let's get to this jam here, which is the again, humble and Fred have only two minutes before their news update at the top of the hour. What are we going to play? Well, let's kick out this one. Yeah, first off is what you do to me No fear, but attack myself with steam It's not much, but it's a mess I've got And I thought you saw the good in everyone

Ooh, the good in everyone You see the good in everyone You see the good in everyone. Patrick, before we hear from you regarding the good in everyone, from one chord to another, what a Canadian radio rock effort this was. I got to shout out FOTM brother Bill, because brother Bill is the voice we hear off the top there. That's right. What can you share with us about The Good and Everyone?

Yeah, I think it's, well, it's funny. I'm just thinking about it as I'm listening to it. It's quite a lot like underwhelmed actually, but I hadn't really thought about that before. But there's the voices and I just wanted to make like a pop, punky pop song. And then I did like this sort of Ace Freely guitar solo, which blew Chris's mind and not in a good way. And then not in a good way. What happened?

Well, because this is the time for the real talk bad Oh, well, you know like I what I was saying about distortion pedals and stuff it was just like I took like this Les Paul through a 5150 a EVH amp and And I double tracked this ace freely guitar solo, which to me is just power pop. It's just like Red Cross or something But he anyway his joke or his thing is that he was just like, what are you doing? What are we doing? What kind of banter are we?

But I would have, you know, the same could have been said about everything you've done wrong. We did basically Chicago with that, with the horns, you know, which to me is more outrageous because we could never pull that off live with the horn players. But anyway, good to everyone. Yeah, and so the intro part is actually Chris wrote that because I,

we wanted to do the song is essentially, uh, New York by the pistols or submission by the pistols. That's what it was based on. And except the intro is based on new rows by, by the Dan, uh, but ours, our version kind of of slow it has like a little intro and then our version just it slows way down and it's so it hits a groove and and it was short I just didn't think I'm not putting a bridge in it and not so then when we did the when we when we did the video for it we had to do this whole pretty because it was too short and so we they wanted us to make it longer and

for radio they actually did a version of it that had, where the chorus is double at the end. And I think maybe the video is done that way as well. And then we also did this whole thing for Easy Rider, acting out the part Easy Rider, but, and then when we do this on live, we don't double up the thing. I don't even think we do the intro, we just do it, we do it at the end. But yeah, it's a simple song and then lyrically it's kind of about, I don't know, just a few people I knew in my life who would be like, they would cut everybody a break and always say, you know, this, no, they're not like that, they're like this. They didn't mean that they didn't mean that. And then when I would say something, they would just shit all over me and like dump on

me. I'd be like, I thought you saw the good in everyone. You don't see the good in me, you know. Very cool. All right. So now we're on, we're already on one chord to another. We're cooking with gas. Are we going the whole way through? I got four songs for you, right? This is already halfway done. You're gonna go 13, but I am doing two songs from one chord to another, but I can ask you between these two songs here and they're very different sounding songs too, but they're both Patrick jams. I got to

ask you the question. You're probably sick of hearing, but how important was it that Sloan break in the United States of America back in the early 90s? Oh, it was very important in several ways. It was important for us because this was a, who wouldn't want that to happen? Well, just 10 times as many people. Yeah.

So many opportunities. But we'd been signed to this label. We were incredibly lucky to do this and all these ducks were in a row and we kind of felt like this is like we're going to have to put the work in, but this is amazing. And it was the most amazing time in our career, in our lives. It was so exciting. But, um, and we wanted to keep that going. But then, you know, we also were very aware that the Canadian music, uh, just the possibilities

within the Canadian music business and especially even just the music we were making, even though that style was popular at the time, like it's very limited because as you say, there's a much smaller population. So a band like us, how much of that listening population are we going to attract? And at that time with Smear, like the idea of us putting out more than three records,

that would be crazy. And so, you know, we got a three record deal or something for Geffen and it was like, can you imagine where you do three records like that's crazy? And so you know, a few years later, we realized you don't want three. You just want one, but for a record deal. But yeah, so and then, but at the same time, you know, we, we kind of felt that we were

repping Canada because anybody who we talked to, they did, they just thought Canadian bands were just the most nerdy, whatever, you know, aside from like April wine or, or they would, they would roll their eyes or rush. They would all roll their eyes about that type of stuff. And, and, and, you know, perhaps right. Rightfully so in some ways, but, um, so it wasn't a badge of honor necessarily to be Canadian. Like we didn't want to be known necessarily as a Canadian band.

We felt we were a Halifax band, but then we just wanted to be a band. We didn't care about representing Canada really. It was a little bit later when we had kind of toured more and met more people and whatever that we just kind of, you know, it's just natural you would just become more ingrained. You meet people in the industry and whatever, and then you start to support your friends and stuff. So it was important to, to show the rest of

the world that it wasn't, it was exactly the same as the States in musically. It's no, why would it be any different? Um, and so that was our point was like, we don't want to focus too much on me and Canadian. We just want to be who we are. But, you know, then it became, it just, you know, at some point we were very comfortable with it. But is there anything you wish you guys had done differently to crack the U S market? Like looking back now, all these years later, not made twice removed. No, uh, well, kind of, no, that might, I mean, No, twice a week is fine. I mean, no, like we toured hard and we, we did everything they ever asked us to do. We never, none of us slipped into drug addiction. None of us, you know, did anything horrible.

We worked, we made records and, but the music industry doesn't work like that. It's not based on what, it's not even based on hard work. There's so many other factors involved and we just had to realize at some point we can't control these factors. So we just need to focus on ourselves and what we want to do. I mean, after we made our record action packed, which is a few records later, but 20 years ago, um, and that record, that's another situation where we had all our ducks in a row and worked really

hard on that record. This was with Sony BNG and RCA in the States. And once that kind of got shot for reasons that had nothing to do with the record, I was like, fuck it. I'm not doing, I'm not trying anymore. Like we're just going to make records we want to make. And if they want to pick singles and that's great, but I'm not, I'm not worrying about what a label wants anymore. And that's so then we may never hear the end of it was a double record. And then we just, we've just never done it like that for labels since

just so I understand. Cause I only ever lived in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, but like, so obviously I'm playing smeared and I fucking loved it. And you know, I said the first song I heard was on 102.1 underwhelmed. But how like how far did you advance in the USA? Like how big did you get in the States? Well, I mean. I mean, we we still do well in the states where we where we play our touring, our touring route has kind of gotten smaller as we've gotten older.

But, you know, I would say that most places that we play are comparable to where we play in Canada for the bigger cities. Like, you know, Toronto might be bigger than New York, but New York is still pretty big. But, you know, they're still like halls or maybe theater size, maybe smaller, but clubs, but big clubs, basically. So it never really got much more than that. We did tour with other bands. Um, and that was like we did lemon heads and when we first started in America, I mean we did a whole for the action pack that record, we did a whole tour with this Australian bank of jet that had a couple of hits. Are you going to go my way? Yeah. And so we,

we did a whole 10 week tour with them and say, I think that was like Iggy Pops lust for life, I think off the top. Yeah, kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, except they were kind of like the faces doing that, but they, they were a little bit more like Iggy Pop, but, but, um, and that was, that was an incredibly rock and roll tour. And it was at a time in our lives, in our early 30s, where we were just sort of like,

a couple of us had kids and so we were just sort of, I don't know, we just kind of lived a bit more of a rock tour than perhaps Smeared would have been, which would have been a little bit more. Okay, so let me ask you straight up. So when you see a band like, and I'm just going to pick on another Toronto band, but the Bare Naked Ladies have a number one

Billboard Hot 100 hit. Yeah. Like, do you look at that and say like, and I'm just going to pick on another Toronto band, but the bare naked ladies have a number one Billboard Hot 100 hit. Yeah. Like, do you look at that and say like, that should have been us? I mean, again, there are other, there are reasons why those things happen on an industry side. I'm sorry. I'm not taking anything away from them. I'm just saying that like, you know, good, cause the drummer is a devout listener of Toronto Mike. So yeah, yeah, there's gonna hear no I know Tyler

No, no, I and you know those guys it's not the kind of music I would make ever but it's um, but that's whatever that's just how I grew up and and you know, I I think that they put a ton of work in and they did a shit ton of work at colleges. Like they just did this whole, in the early days. Well, they played the Peach Pit. Right. Well, that would help too. Right. And so how do they get that? Probably through some sort of management. Jason Priestley was a fan.

Jason Priestley. There you go. Right. Yeah. So, and so, you know, And so, you know, you can't be jealous of that. And I mean, you know, the question would be more, and it wouldn't be fair to ask, but the question to me would be more asked to the tragically hip because, tragically hip, in my opinion, much bigger than barren naked ladies in Canada. And no doubt about it.

But at the same time, barren naked ladies were bigger in the United States than, than, than, uh, than the hip. And, and, but at this, you know, at St. Tim we did a small European tour with tragedy. They were playing like 2000 people and stuff like it wasn't like nobody. Um, and that's in Europe, not even in America where they were getting, you know, there are pockets of the United States, certainly when we were first starting in the nineties where they would get much

music, like it was part of their cable package. So people knew us down South in places because they got much music and that's another thing like you as you were saying like it's Not just the population, but it's how you how you get it. How do you get on to MTV? Well, you don't they don't nobody there is just listening to a band and saying hey, let's put them on it It's absolutely none to do as to do with labels Publicists agents agents, money. You know, if the song is good

and people are listening to it, it will take off. If it's shit, people won't listen to it. But how it gets there has very little to do with anything except for, you know, Jason Priestley likes it, or you met somebody at this place. And we were on a tour with this band, Fountains of Way, and a friend of ours came out on the road with us. And she was like one of the programmers at MTV. And she said, she's on the road with us and she was like one of the program programmers at MTV and she said she's on the road with

us she was just as a friend and she's like I love your band but I can't play your video and you know why not well it's just it's just the politics I just can't do it and like when you hear that when you're touring for ten weeks at a time wondering why things aren't happening and the people at MTV are saying I love your band so much I'm gonna come on the road with you and sleep on a couch I can't play your video so when you talk about baronet Galatis taking off and stuff it's not just because of the music because it's there's a few other things probably

which is nothing to do it's not their fault at all I mean I would never fault them I mean you know you talk about rush like rush took off in America mainly because a couple of programmers at a radio station really liked them and then it sort of grounds well, but that doesn't happen very often. No, I mean that story, I've talked to Donna Halper who was at this Cleveland station who got an album sent to her by Bob Roper who's only ever done one podcast in his life and it was this podcast. So Bob Roper sent to her, his friend Donna Helper on a Cleveland station, sent the first

album by Rush and with the different drummer, the original drummer, and she started playing Working Man because Cleveland was like a blue collar work in town and people started requesting Working Man and they literally brought Rush to Cleveland to play gigs. And that was the spark, was this happenstance. So a whole bunch of it is beyond the quality of the music. Or you know. Most of it is. Because you know that, I mean, there's so many bands, or so many songs I know from bands

that never got very far at all. They're just so good. And you know, maybe somebody, the dream would be, well, if this didn't take off, maybe somebody will cover, you know, 5440 having their song cover by who you in the blowfish, right? That's a huge windfall, especially even at that time they had been together. I probably about only about 10 years or maybe, you know, probably about 10 years.

But like, um, but like, you know, I would imagine they were almost ready to retire at that point. And then that happened and then that helped their career here as well. And that's, that's almost what we would, you know, something like that would happen to us. I would be more, I mean, America would be great, but it's like, how's that going to affect us in Canada? I can up our thing here. Cause we do okay. But like, you know,

it'd be nice to be seen as bigger icons than we are. Well here I promised I'd play another song from one chord to another. And then tying into what you just referenced there is a song I'm going to play Navy Blues. Okay, so okay, but you're my you're like my prisoner Patrick Well, is this a mystery I'm supposed to figure out like I don't know well You can guess cuz I'm playing of songs played on alt rock radio in this country Okay time that were written by Patrick Patlin. So you can probably guess all these but here is alright, I see And no cheating by looking here is. Oh, right. I see. And no cheating by looking at my screen.

OK, Patrick, I want you to be surprised. I think I know what this song is. You don't need to tell me. Name that tune, Patrick. It's Patrick. You got life insurance. Do your time to pay the price For everything you've done wrong, baby In your life you get so high There's nowhere left to go but down Don't believe that no one cares Cause we're here waiting for you, baby Do your time to then come home for good Don't hide yourself away, mention, mention

Don't hide yourself away, mention To my ears in these headphones right now, Patrick, to hear the Good and Everyone and Everything You've Done Wrong from the same album by the same guy sound very different to me. Both great though. Well, I would say even at that time, I felt probably that Good and Everyone and Everything You've Done Wrong were like kind of outlier, like off the wall type of temps at doing something. That was the other thing too, as I was talking about like the whole action-packed thing and me sort of saying I don't care what labels. It was the same thing with

this record. It was like this was not supposed to come out or this was supposed to come out. Well we weren't necessarily going to tour this record or anything. In my mind it was this is the last thing I'm ever going to record so I'm going to record a Chicago song, I'm going to record a second pistol song, and I'm going to record something else that'll fit with everybody else's songs. And that's what we did. And then both these songs got picked as singles and Jay's song. And it was like, oh, shit, I guess we're gonna have to go on tour. I guess we're gonna have to be a band. And, and so when we made this record, maybe by

the end of when we were mixing it or something, we may have felt like we were going to continue as a band, but certainly when I was writing it and we were doing these songs, it was just like almost, it was almost as thrilling as doing Smeared where we were just like, oh my God, I can't believe we just made that crazy sounding record. It was like this, it was like, I can't believe we got horns on a record. This is insane, you know, and but that was only because had I had we had we made twice removed three or two or whatever or twice removed two uh it I wouldn't have done these songs I wouldn't have done either one of them because I would have just tried to fit in with whatever

that record was going to be but because there was no future so to to speak. We, I just did whatever I thought would be fun to do. And I love Chicago and I love the Pistols. And members of Sloan seem to love the Beatles as well. Some of us. Never heard of this. Liverpool. No, I do. Of course, of course. No, but that this was a period where they they were really into that or that era of music. And and you know, for them, as much as it's thrilling for me to do Chicago or the Pistols or ACDC, it was thrilling for them to do that stuff too. And I like the Beatles too.

I think can't face up when there's records, probably got a bit of a Beatles feel to it. Although maybe I was doing a Clash thing. Well, it's funny, I just wanted to see the track listing from one chord to another because the two biggest jams I remember are your two jams here. And then, yeah, the Lines lines you amend was a big song. Yeah. Yeah. We still do that every night. Yeah.

It's a good record. And we've, and there are other songs on that record. Like Chris has anyone who's anyone, I think is a great, great, great song. Now how close I need, you kind of alluded earlier, like how many times, this is some big questions. Sorry. And Andrew has good songs on that record. I mean, I know I don't think of who's the leader. I don't have this. That's the problem when there's three people to talk about, you can't leave one of them out or else,

I'm not that he'll ever listen to this, but you know. Do you think that works against you? That there's, cause a serious question because. Everything works against me. But I've had this question, there's multiple, I had the question of the Blue Rodeo has two lead singers. Okay. Yeah. And some songs are Greg songs

and some songs are Jim Cuddy songs. But Slowen's got four guys going at it. Do you think it works against you that you don't have one front man like R.E.M.'s got one guy in front? 100%. That's of course. The music business isn't built for four people. You can't keep going back to the friggin' Beatles. That's my problem is like everybody keeps acting like that's something that you could do or maybe do where you know that's again that's a whole other thing. That's just a pop thing, a pop like a boy band thing and that became something else. But like with yeah you need to have like no no label is prepared for a band. No major label in America and the U.S. gave a

shit about a band with multiple singers. They just want a star. They want to push the Scott Weiland or the, the Cornell or the Eddie Vedder. They don't want to push the frigging bass player or the, you know what I mean? Like, and, and with us, it was like, no, we want to be taken seriously. It was four of us. I, I 100% have said a bunch of times, I really wish we just put like Chris up front and just get him to sing because like it's for label or whatever. I, I, I pushed against it for a while. I didn't like the fact that like when we were with Sony, I felt like he got a lot of favoritism that really bothered me because I had

written songs that were being played on the radio and then they were, you know, giving him some attention. But at some point I realized, Oh wait, he, I remember what had happened was like, um, he was being asked with, I think he was being asked to go to, uh, the edge to show them how to play money, see maniacs. I wasn't asked to go as my frigging thing and they didn't ask me to go. And so, and I, and I was like pissed and I was really mad I unhurt cause it was just like, really? I wrote that and you're going to get him to go do it. Like I can't even go down like I'm not one of my hunch,

like the fucking Nordic. And so until I was told that I would have to be down there at five 30 in the morning. And I was like, oh no, that's cool. He can go do it. And that from then on, I didn't give a shit. So was this on humble and Fred? I don't know.

Probably I'm going to mine where my, your mind blow for the day, Patrick is today. I produced the humble and Fred show. Oh, okay. Well then sure. Well, it's gotta be if it's the edge and it's in the, it would have been when that or no, it would have been a few years after that came out. It was, would have been around. I don't know what it would like to say 2000 like, but, but um, you know, yes, uh, but, you know, at the same time, the edge has always been supportive. So no, no, no, they played a shit ton of Sloan. Yeah, like, you

know, we've always had a great relationship with those guys and, um, and, no, they played a shit ton of Sloan. Yeah, like, you know, we've always had a great relationship with those guys and and and what's the other one called now in the eighty eight in the eighty eight. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to my buddy. They're great to anyone who plays Sloan is great, right? But I'm sure now boom is playing Sloan, right? Well, that we that was the other thing too is as you gear up to do mice is like we've moved into we are now in like technically in classic rock era or whatever that is like category So our goal now one of our goals is to move into that to become the new April wine on the radio to become the new rush on the radio but also or to get in with those guys but also for festivals like

you know, we just played a festival, a true for last year and not, it doesn't have any original members. None of them are original. They're all like hired guys, except I think one of them was in the band for a long time, but he was not an original member, but the singer, nobody is. And of course the audience, they have no idea what the guy looks like. Most of the people, they just know the song. They don't care. Well, this is what happened to the guess who in the States. Right. So there's, yeah. So, but anyway, point being that unless that trend continues, which I don't think it will,

then all these bands are retiring. You know, all these bands we've been playing with for so long, they're starting, they don't want to go on the road anymore. So then we will move hopefully into those slots of playing all and, you know, I don't care who we're, if people are into it, it's fine. And our audience is growing older anyway. So it, you know, so yeah Classical 35 years of Sloan

Well classic rock means now that you can get played on finally you can get played on q107 because q wasn't playing in the 90s Yeah, yeah. Well, they probably couldn't well they were yeah, they were busy playing Aerosmith or yeah F lepre but q107 or q104 didn't play us either and we were from Halifax. They remember brother Jake Edwards Oh, yeah. Yeah but Yeah, well, I just remember I remember all the Like they would do like all these, you know morning skits and things. Yeah morning zoo stuff. Yeah. Yeah So anyway, but dear but but dear so there were bands in this market anyways, in the

this time we're talking about, there were bands that were Q bands and there were bands that were CFY bands. There was a little, sometimes there was, I think tragically hip is a good example of a band, both would play, but usually it was one or the other. Like, and nowadays it's changed so much that now Q would play Sloan, but this is like a fairly new phenomenon. But I actually credit Boom with that. I feel Boom was eating their lunch and they needed to like boomify their playlist. And yeah, that means some more Sloan for everybody.

Everybody's welcome to play us. Great fucking band. Have I told you yet that Sloan's a great fucking band with great music? Okay, I'm going to play. Go ahead. You're going to say you're going to accept gonna accept nobody needs to tell me that. I already know that grossly underappreciated to I'm gonna throw that in there too. All right, here it is. I'm going to go to the bathroom. All you've found is another back door And no one sees

the reason for At the heart of the trapping van You have to understand this driving is the yellow line And the joke is when he awoke his body was covered in Coke Fizz And the joke is when he awoke's going on? Coke, Fizz? Yeah, but did they use that line in the thing in the commercial? No, I don't think.

No, you're talking about Fuse, right? You're talking about Fuse. Yeah, is that not a Coca-Cola company? Well, you would. Did you cash your checks from Coke? I would. Somebody told me it was a Coca-Cola company. See, I don't know. OK, but it's where, yeah, that's still the most recent time you would have heard

this on TV is the Fuse ice tea ad. And we learned off the top you guys had to split that four ways even though this is a Patrick Pentland jam. Well I think I was saying it's kind it is yeah but Chris is in there too but you know what the thing is if you listen to the song and when the drums kick in and then you listen because Andrew's kind of doing a thing on the ride that I didn't want him to do but he did it and to me, that's like a part of the song. So like he didn't write anything. He just did that. But to me, that's as important as not as important as the riff, but like it's in there.

You know what I mean? So that's part of the whole songwriting thing of splitting things. It's like these things matter. Like you're going to go through every song and say, well, who did this to him? It's like when you too, like the, you know, the edge has to put his signature guitar thing on it or whatever. It's a part of the deal, but who was the siren at the beginning? Who, who was responsible for that siren at the beginning? Who decided to put it there? Yeah. It's just a sound effects thing. But, um, I think I just,

what I wanted was I wanted the intro, the intro is kind of like, it's a good clapping song too. Yeah. The intro is, is based on Livewire by ACDC but they go down and we go up with the chords and don't tell them that. And then so when it kicks in I wanted something to happen and Andrew had an old car like a 70s something rather and it was parked. We were doing it in Chemical which is downtown Toronto and there was a like a 70s something rather. And it was parked, we were doing it in Chemical, which is downtown Toronto, and there was a like a little alleyway where he had the car parked and we brought microphones, it was winter, we brought microphones out to the car, we got him to like rev up the engine and stuff to make it sound like a

car was taking off, because I wanted to give it a sense of movement. And that didn't really work and then it was just like, just put a friggin siren in the beginning, because those always sound cool. And so that's what we did. And then we didn't use the siren for many years because we didn't have the ability to do it. And then at some point, Gregory McDonald put it in a keyboard and now we can do it. There you go. Okay. Money City Maniacs. Fucking great from Navy Blues. I'm actually now going to hit you with the questions that came in. So you're comfortable now? Can we start the recording, Patrick? How you feeling?

How far into this are we going to go? Question time. Don't worry. It'll be 90 minutes or less. 90 minutes or less. You're going to get a lasagna. People are going to get bored of my voice. No, please. They're loving this. I promise you. Jerry the garbage man wrote in, They're loving this. I promise you. Jerry the garbage man wrote in long time Sloan fan here I'm fascinated by the group dynamic Can you ask Patrick how they decide who plays which instruments on a given track? Do they always sing their own songs? Yeah, well, I would say

I'm not sure about Chris's songs, but the way it works is, well, actually recently we're working, we're doing a record right now. And so Andrew actually will play pretty much everything on his own songs. And he will, Chris and I did some singing on his songs for this record, but, and I'll play all the guitar on mine. Sometimes I play the bass,

but I like to get Chris to play bass cause he's a good bass. And I just like to get people involved. And then, so Chris played drums on most of the songs on this record and the last one. He's good behind the kit. Yeah, yeah, no, he's a good drummer. And the way we work, as you know, part of it is

the four of us are doing our own thing. Jay plays all the guitars on his. I don't play guitar on anybody else's songs, but my own. And I haven't done since, since, well, since action packed when we, we all played our regular parts. But, um, and that's fine. Cause like, I like the way Jay plays guitar. And I, if I were to get on that, I would probably be, you know, jamming Zach Wilde all over it or something. So it's better that they do their own thing. And I enjoy doing my own thing. But, and then at some point we all have to learn the songs and I have to learn all the parts.

And sometimes, you know, Andrew's songs can be, he's a, his musical mind is pretty complex. So like his guitar parts and just the way things fit together often quite cool and interesting. And so you have to kind of learn. It's not just like my song, it's a bash out. Here's the chords is GCD like, you know, I mean most of the time.

And so we all have to learn the songs and then. But in terms of singing, yeah, whoever wrote the lyrics, whoever song it is, they sing the lead. Very good. Now you mentioned Andrew and it occurs to me that now that you're an FOTM friend of Toronto, Mike, of course, Chris has been over a couple of times. Jay came over. Uh, would, would you think Andrew would appear on Toronto? Mike? Yeah, I think so. Have you never asked him at the check? Well,

I asked you several times. Yeah. And again, I feel you're all equal. so I would, I'm sure I've asked him, but I'm going to confirm that well, he he's probably online. I'm not online that much anymore because I have a Patreon now that I do everything. Shout out the Patreon right now. It's just my Patrick, Patrick, Patlin, Patreon, and it's good. Um, and it's just all like, I've got fuzzed out demos up there, all the fuzz out demos. I've got tons of B side extra stuff demos and then lots of other behind the scenes things and videos that I've done and stuff. And I've got a bunch of people on there and I could talk to them all often if I can. So yeah, it's like 10 bucks a month.

A lot of fun and you get all that stuff. And so you're not going to hear any fuzz out for a while anywhere else. Okay. And soon I have a question about fuzz. But, uh, okay. I got to go to Tai Joshi. Tai Joshi wants to know, are you guys gonna do another music cruise? I would love to. I had so much fun on that Bare Naked Ladies one.

So it's called Ships and Dip or something? It was, yeah. And I was, because I was newly single. And so I was just sort of like the first time or the second time. And so I was- Who can keep track? time or a second time. And so I was, um, who can keep track. I was, um, yeah, I had a room to myself and there's a bare naked ladies cruise. It was like a lot of fun. We played about five times and like those guys were cool. The

odds were there. Friends of ours, obviously. And Sarah McLaughlin was there from Halifax and, right. And, uh, it was great. I had a, I had a blast. I would do, I know like, you know, Weezer's done them. There's power pop ones that great I had a I had a blast I would do I know like you know Weezer's done them there's power pop ones that happen like I don't know why we're not on them we're so much fun speaking of Weezer it's fair to say I think that Pinkerton was there twice removed it would be in that I've barely listened to the big the first album twice big this big kind of sound, certain sound, and then the second album, very different.

Over time, people are going to come out and say, oh, here's the thing though. And this is why I'm always down on Twice Removed. I shouldn't be down on it. But here's the reason is because of Weezer is because while we were making that record, while we were mixing that record, Twice Removed in New. And we had the same same A&R guy. And Weezer had been signed by him after we were signed. And I don't even know if we knew he signed. We played with them on Smeared.

And so we're mixing, we're mixing twice removed. I was really worried because it didn't sound like Smeared. I felt it was way too Beatles. It's not really, but I thought it was at the time. And I was like the label, I don't know what we're doing. And they were like, no, no, it's going to be great screwed. So whatever we're doing. And it sounded great and whatever. And we're in,

and then Todd Sullivan, the A&R guy shows up with the newly mastered blue, this record by this band Weezer that you played with in LA one time. Remember that I signed them. I was like, okay, I take it home to the hotel. I put it into my whatever it was CD player. And I was just like, Oh my, cause I don't believe track is my name is Jonas. It just, it hits you like a title. It's just like, this is the record we were supposed to, this is what I've been talking. This is the record we should have made. I just didn't know how to, not that I was claiming to be, I mean, we have their own sort of, you know, like

Rico cascading involved. It's a very carzy new ways thing. But, but I just meant like, this is a, this is the power pop, which was not a term I used then that we should be making. And in, and in fact we kind of did anyway, but like I was just blown away by their use of the guitars and it was like a big guitar record, but it wasn't a heavy metal record. And I was so jealous and I was just, and it was the same, here's my thing that I'm so pissed about. I love Todd, but was that he knew that they were making that record and he was so jealous and I was just and it was the same here's my thing that I'm so pissed about I love Todd but was that he knew that they were making

that record and he knew we were making this record and he knew this record was going to be difficult for us to put out and he should have said listen to these Weezer demos why don't you try to sound like this but he didn't and then they they're the band that went off that we should have gone off you know what I mean? Wow okay so but I love Todd. And he mentioned Rick Okasek who produced that blue album also produced Nada surfs popular if you listen to nada serves popular then listen to undone the sweater song Yeah, yeah, I don't really know now stuff stuff that much but the the tour manager a merch person we've had in the past Sarah she does a lot of work with them is on tour with I think right now in Europe with them

But um, yeah, I I a lot of work with them. He's on tour with I think right now in Europe with them. But, um, yeah, I, I did notice that when I first heard it, yeah. Rico case like productions. And just one thought quickly, cause earlier we talked about what worked against Sloan was having four singers, right? Instead of having like one front guy. Yes. I would say 75, I would say 65% worked against us. I mean, you know, rolling stones, you, you picture

Mick up there, right? It's well, it's often foil foil. You know, you've got Mick and Keith, you've got, you've got, but Keith, Keith doesn't sing lead on rolling stones. No, but Keith, Keith, you want to be Keith, you don't want to be me. I know that that's, that's a whole different thing. That's right. That's like a Led Zeppelin. You know, you want it, you don't want to be going down to five 30 in the morning. But Rick Okasek and Cars, there's a band where my brain thinks of big hits by cars and it's two different lead singers. Yes, I know. Exactly. And that's another thing, too.

Exactly. If you think about that band, you think about him. But then, of course, the songs you know, he did drive as Benjamin Orr. Yeah. Yeah. And what's the other one? Yeah. There's another. But the thing is, you might think I'm crazy or whatever. Like that's not Rick. And that's the one with his, uh, his wife in the video. Uh, I'm not blaming her, but I'm just saying like, she's like, but the good times are always cool. Goodness gracious, man. Okay. So we are, uh, my question now, this is from Toronto, Mike. Okay.

And I taught Jay was very honest about this. I'm hoping you'll be equally honest but it sounds like multiple times at one time particularly Sloan was done yeah like so he tells a story then I'm gonna get it from you but like where Sloan is done but I guess you had some contractual obligation to do some Canada Day Festival or something and that sort of brings back the band or something. What's your no tell me your story. Well, so this is this is so we tour twice removed the record that should have been the blue album and then your pinkertons we didn't become that's right.

So our Pinkerton that's right. Sorry. And and and and we so we didn't get a lot of support. We barely got tour support from the label. We stretched six weeks of tour support for 10 weeks or something like that or four weeks for six and touring in a van and stuff and, and for a label, it's like, why are we in a van for a label? Like we're, even if we make money on this, they're going to get 80% of it. And anyway, so, and so yeah, we kind of got to the end of the road. We got, we toured Canada, we toured Canada,

like they didn't like it in Canada. And then when we toured America, by the time we got to California, I remember we were in this Winnebago beat up Winnebago, four of us, maybe five of us, I think. And it was like, I'm just like, why don't we just, cause we were friends with the sub pop people. Like we hung out, like we went to their hangout, drank with them, whatever. And why don't we just do go to sub pops? They can, we put a record out with you guys?

Like, why are we doing this with Geffen? They don't care about us. Half the people we worked with on Smear aren't even there anymore. And it's just like, so then when we got home, Andrew had moved to Toronto, wanted to live in Toronto with his now wife. And Chris, we were frustrated and we'd fought a lot.

And then we got, and Chris wanted to go on the road with his friends. And so we had a fight in our manager's office where Chris said, I don't want to do, well, I'm not doing this anymore. If we can't be a full band. And then Andrew's like, well, I'm sorry. You feel that way kind of thing. And Jay and I just sat there stunned, like what the fuck just happened here.

And so the band had, we had, but we had like, this was say, I don't know, and this was say it was like November or something, we are December or something. We had a tour, a tour booked in the spring or coming up some universities and so we knew we were going to have to do those shows and then we were offered this edge fest thing and that was us headlining edge fest which was the edge. This is most in park and berry. No this was at the amphitheater and we they gave us the it was basically our edge fest so we got to pick most of the

bands that were not all of them but most of the bands that were on it and and so that was gonna be kind of like our last show and that was fine I was really sad and we had a bunch of people flew up from Halifax for it and that was it we were gonna be done because the band couldn't be together because Andrew was living in Toronto and we couldn't be a band unless we were all in one city apparently. But of course we had played together. We'd done these festivals or we'd done these spring shows. Things had been patched up because all that happened was we had a fight but what after the band had kind of had this fight,

we had sort of told a few friends the band's over, but it's Halifax and it's a very small town. And everyone drank of one bar. And so this journalist guy was there, heard when the band had broken up, called our little office, and I happened to be there and picked up the phone and he asked if we'd broken up.

And I said, no, we haven't. And then he was like, well, I've heard that we have, why are people saying that you have is like, I don't know why they're telling. I don't know. But no, we're, we may take a break for a bit after we do these shows, but we got shows in the spring. And then I think he called Chris's mother and Chris's mother said, yeah, I think they've broken up.

And then he wrote that and went across the country or the AP, you know, whatever it's called. And, and, um, and then there was all these articles in music press or whatever that we'd broken up, except we had tour dates. So it was like, well, we're not trying to cat, like it seemed in my, in our adolescent minds that we were, it looked like we were trying to cash in, like, well, you're never going to see them again. And it's like, no. And in my mind, I was very sad.

I thought it is over this most exciting time in my life has been ended because these two guys are fighting. We were all fighting. And, um, but of course, by the time we do any other shows, and I remember we were doing something, I can't remember what it was. We were doing some interview, maybe at CBC or something. And I can't remember, but Chris was like, why don't we, why don't we just do one more record? And then that'll be it. Andrew's going to be living in Toronto.

We can't do anything, but let's just do one more record. And I was like, okay, well, we'll do that. Sure. And then I be living in Toronto, we can't do anything but let's just do one more record and I was like okay well we'll do that sure and then I was kind of hoping that we get back together and then as we started to work on one chord to another we everything was just patched up and by the time it was done with good and everyone and stuff we knew we were going to be going on the road. You could argue you saved Sloan because of one chord to another with the good in everyone and everything you've done wrong? I don't know if I would take credit for that, but I do think that my... It kicked me in the ass when the band broke up, or whatever it did broke up.

Let's just say broke up. It kicked me in the ass because when we came back I was like, I'm not going to sit back in the sidelines anymore. All the songs on Twice Remove of mine don't sound any way like I wanted them to, but it's because I didn't speak up properly. And so I decided I'm I'm I'm as cool as anybody else in this band I'm just gonna do whatever I want to do and I think when we all again when we all kind of stopped giving a shit that's when we got a long better and that's when we made better music.

Geez by the way the tragically hip Kingston band everybody lived in Kingston Gord decided to move to Toronto. No one else followed him to Toronto. The rest of the band stayed in Kingston. So you, you know, there's a, but it's not, that's not as far as Halifax to Toronto. That is true. But the thing is it had nothing to do with that. It had to do with the fact that Chris and Andrew had been like very close best friends

and now Andrew was seeing, and it was moving to be with his, his, his girlfriend. And Chris was hurt, I think as part of it and that's understandable so so as you know but we were also like 24 like 23 20 and really we're still about 24 and we were probably more like 18 when we were 24 you know right Trevor and you're doing great Patrick is it Trevor is it Trevor super fan Trevor? I don't know. A shout out to Brian Dunn, whose buddy Trevor says he's the world's biggest

Sloan, not one I'm thinking Trevor says last year Patrick was talking about the band potentially doing a Christmas holiday album, which I don't think happened, hasn't been released at least. No, I didn't. He said that he initially wasn't too keen on it, but warm to the idea of it as a challenge. So yeah, the big question is, is that still on the table? I don't know. That was, I think Chris as usual came up with something like that and um, cause he's just kind of, we've done some holly Christmas songs songs before and um, and then I was like, yeah, I guess we could do that. He's like pain in the ass.

But then it was like, well actually I could probably write some kind of fun rock songs for Christmas and maybe, or for holidays and maybe kids would like, whatever, maybe. So I thought, yeah, sure. Why, why not? And I have actually written a good chunk of one song, but no, we haven't really talked about it. I mean, it's taken us almost a year to do this record.

When is this record going to be available for me to hear it? Well, we're mixing it right now. We've been doing it since May and of last year and but we didn't do a lot in the summer and then so I think the idea is it'll be out in the in like October or November. How does Chris have time with his several other bands? Well, don't talk to me about that. It's a teaser is coming to get coming back again, but Jimmy early. Well, he can do it because he's barely doing it. He's not, he does a lot, but he's not doing that much because there's three

other guys who were doing it right. Isn't that what we've been talking about this whole time? He only has to come up with three songs. He came up with four this time. Okay. Does it have to be equal every time or no? No. Well, we try to do three each, but Andrew just wanted to do two.

And then I guess it became Chris was doing four. I don't know why that happened, but, um, cause I obviously have a bunch of other songs, but no, no, but, um, I was, I don't care. I was happy to get it. I'm going to close with a side projects. Okay. But Jimmy, your Jimmy early, uh, writes excellent. This is when I just said Patrick Panlin was coming on Toronto, Mike. Excellent. My question for Patrick, Unkind is one of the greatest power pop songs ever written and recorded. Why do you, Patrick, keep a lower profile than your Sloan brothers, Chris and Jay?

Well, I don't need the attention like that. And I don't know if they need the attention, but, um, I mean, you know, there are times when I do more stuff, but, but I, I, and also like, you know, we don't, we're not, we're obviously friends and stuff, but we don't hang out socially. Like it's a whole different thing. And those guys tend to be, I've often said in the past, perhaps to bit of an eye roll in the band, like it's not really my band, it's their band that I play in. And maybe that's not fair. You see it that way?

Well, a lot of times, cause I don't have a lot of creative control over like how we're perceived visually for instance, or how are, you know, these types of things, like it's fine. I don't, I don't feel now like it's a problem, but it was for quite a while, like the cover between the bridges, like anyway. And so like, but no, no, I just think that, that, and it, and it's not Bon Jovi,

right? Like Bon Jovi, there's a guy who owns Bon Jovi and he hires guys to play in it. No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying that, that you can't have four people in charge. You can't have four people speaking for the band all the time. Like, you know, when you see bands play and like three guys are talking all the time and it's not that choreographed, it just people talking over each band all the time, like, you know, when you see bands play and like three guys are talking all the time and it's not that choreographed, it just people talking over each other all the time. And so at some point, and

I, I perhaps Andrew's worse than me, but like we, we tend to be kind of more acidic and like dark with the way we talk about things and like, not that into this and not that into that. And of course I love everything I'm doing, but they're a little bit more just sort of like it's just their nature to just be more self-promotional. Well Chris is, you know, I know him so well, though I was hanging with him and his sister in Hamilton to see Tom Wilson had a Tom. Yeah.

And we were kind of having a good, good chat. Some nice chats about Stephen Page and bare naked ladies. And it's very interesting. But Chris is ace in the hole is he's wicked funny. Yeah I'm funny too. Yeah well you're you're a you're more of like the dry wit right and he's he yeah you're all funny you're all funny okay so we can't get into this because then you start getting into personalities and stuff well the reason he needs is because he really I don't get well I think you're all equal I'm gonna repeat that

again I love you all equally okay so although I haven't met Andrew we're gonna my next goal is to get Andrew in the basement. So I'm gonna work on that here. How this is from me. How close did you come to joining doughboys? Where did that come from? It's from Toronto Mike's question because I'm like, well, full disclosure is I'm a big rusty fan of rusty Scott McCull McCullough comes out of Doughboys. So, you know. Well, I mean, we knew those guys and I was a fan of those guys and still am. And I think what happened was cause I'd split up or, you know, Sloan had split up. And so I was- In the mid nineties. Yeah, after twice removed.

And our manager around that time or had been our manager Peter Rowan was friends with their manager James McClain and so I think it's some point I knew castor I now know castor was into my stuff and so John castor the singer and so I one of the singers that's another band with multiple singers yeah he is yeah and is that cool to me do whatever you want to do I always thought he looked great when he was, when the, well, like when we, you know, I don't even know judgments. I'm just wondering.

No, no, I just always thought it's a cool look for him. But, um, like when they're, it's just hair flying all over the place, jumping off the drums. It's awesome. And also the guy from now that I think about it, uh, the Ken from, yeah, rusty did it too. I know it's just like an eighties thing, like a skate punk thing, kind of, you know, but, um, I think, but, um,. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was just like an eighties thing, like a skate punk thing, kind of, you know. But I think, but, and so Jonathan Cummings, the guitar player had left,

who was the other guy who did most of the singing. And then there was another guy, Peter Arsenal was from Halifax, and he was playing bass, and I knew him from Halifax, and he's this sweet guy too. And so their manager got, I think their manager got in touch with Peter or, or he called me and was just like, we're making a record.

Like, we'll know if you want to play guitar and tour, be a tour with us and stuff. And I said, I would absolutely love to accept that. We're making a record right now called one court or whatever it's called. And I think it's going to be, I think the band is back together again. And I was kind of bummed out because like, you know,

at the time, the idea of like being able to move into a band that was still kind of around our level, I think at that time, because Shine had been big for them. Shine was huge. And they were signed and stuff. And I felt like, well, I could move into this whole other echelon of different people and different bands and enjoy myself.

And then that didn't happen. I think it's wild though, that a member of dough boys left to form rusty like that, like this is well, I don't know if he left to form rusty, but he left the band. Okay, I'm going to come out of here. I'm forming rusty felt like it, but guess he, maybe he, maybe that story has been massaged. What has he been on here?

Yep. Maybe I heard that maybe I don't know. I've had all of Rusty in the basement. Okay, yeah, yeah. I was listening to the first Doughboyz record the other night, cause my goal now, and don't tell anybody, my goal now is to, is to get Kastner to make a Doughboyz record with me,

and I'll play guitar. And then, cause we've got mutual friends, like Rob from Dearly Beloved, and I want to get Doughboyz back together together and then I want to do a tour with or maybe it's not called no dough boys but I want to do a tour where it's like me doing my stuff cast are doing dough boys and also going so stuff you know what you know like stuff trans Canada Highwaymen well I mean I would do that you know or I wouldn't be doing we'd be doing our own own songs, but like, but like get a bit of a thing going because, uh, like Rob and I have, I've been working on some

stuff. I don't know if you know dearly beloved, but like, um, and, uh, and then, uh, and then we're talking about potentially doing maybe some stuff with castor, but like, um, I'm open to, I've been writing, I do other stuff. So like, I'm, I'm really into just doing whatever. I know you were going to talk about fuzzed out, but. Yeah. So yeah, anyway, the, the, the dough boys thing would have been kind of exciting, I think, but the, and I'm, and then their drummer, their drummer, Paul Newman ended up guitar taking for Sloan for a long time.

And then he went on, now he texts for Coldplay and tours all over the world for Coldplay. So he was playing drums, drums with dough boys went on to be basically like Coldplay right hand guys. So, um, and Casper does really well. He manages a bunch of bands in, in, in LA and his, his wife, Jessica's on TV and stuff. So that was Don Draper's wife. Yeah, I know. I guess I've never really watched. Should I tell you, um, I think it's a top five show of all time from for me personally mad men. I'm sure it's pretty good It is it's like an and I think I see a lot of it's it's it's like there's a list of about five shows I should have watched the whole way through his every loves Can I tell you the names of those shows you didn't watch that you should be watching? I'm gonna guess ready

Okay, one is the Sopranos. No, I watched also. Okay. Okay. One is six feet under I watched some of that You didn't like it. I wouldn't be something I tuned into all the time. Okay. I loved it. That's okay That's what makes life interesting. We're all different the wire that's that see I didn't watch that because I started to watch it a couple of times and then I I Just didn't get into it and then everybody's going bananas about it Well, it's another thing with the Beatles is like, Chris and Jay were so embedded with everything that I just couldn't catch up. So I just didn't care.

It's the same with The Wire. It's like, well, am I gonna watch it now? There's 60 episodes, yeah. Yeah, it's like, it's a lot. Or Breaking Bad's the other one. That was my next guess. Like we all watched Game of Thrones, like independently. I was really surprised Andrew was really into it.

And The Sopranos, we once kept an audience waiting like an hour or say 45 minutes. They thought like the lights went down and we didn't go on stage for 45 minutes because we were watching sopranos and backstage and we didn't want to leave cause it was too exciting. Love the sopranos. Love it so much. Polly Walnuts, man. Okay. So you, now you, you know, we're going to just finish by talking about, uh, side projects. I got a lovely note here from Hamilton Mike,

shout out to Hamilton Mike. Be sure to ask him about his side band fuzzed out. Love them! Exclamation mark. Oh, that's very nice. Saw them at their first show, which was in Hamilton last year with my son. Patrick actually used some of the pictures, a reshare of some of the of the pictures of him and the band

on his Instagram yeah I think those shots were good yeah so let me let me do this can I play a bit of fuzzed out because this is actually how you got here is that it was kicked out by Manfred right he was kicking out the jams because there was a new elephant I remember a couple hours ago we were talking show to Ian blurred and I think he produces the new elephants and he does it yeah he's in this calendar to visit a bunch of OG ago when we were talking about. Shout out to Ian Blurred. And I think he produces the new, uh, elephants and he does it. Yeah. He's in this calendar to visit a bunch of OG members of change a heart. Yeah, that's right. Next month, I think.

Yeah. But, uh, okay. A little fuzz out here. It keeps on raining, but that's okay A messed up mind is overflowing today It's kinda cracked, it's off of tracks again But it's clear for all to see, I'm almost in the meat Yeah, it's great. That's nice of you. What can you share with us about Fuzz'd Out and do you have any problem at all with the fact that, I mean, members of Sloan have

side projects obviously, but Chris Murphy's got like eight of them. Yeah. Do I have a problem with that? The only problem I have is that he was the guy who was the most adamant that nobody do anything outside of Sloan for about 20 years and then I found out while we're making another record from the guy who was making the record with us who made this stuff a friend of ours was in when I was recording and he's like to the engineer guy our friend he's like how's Chris's record coming along and I'm like what are you talking about and he's like oh yeah Chris is making a record with Matt Murphy and Mike O'Neil I'm like what what on earth are you talking about he's like you're mixing it and he's like I've never

heard I've been in a room with this guy like for the last six months, I never heard a thing about it. And he told everybody never to do anything outside. It's like furious of anything. Like I was writing with other people and said, he's all that and then he's doing it. Anyway, I don't blame him. He's fine, but.

But don't be the guy who says it's Sloan or GTFO and then be sneaking around with a side project. Well, I don't know. Maybe there's shame involved. I don't know. My goodness. And then he didn't stop there. He got a taste of it. And he's like, what other bands can I join? Well, I mean, look, he's in a band. He's sick. I mean, like anybody would be. He wants to play with his friends and they made that record.

And to be fair to him, or from what he said, they were writing the songs altogether. So I don't know. It's fine by me. And then it sort of made it, I felt more comfortable doing this because I just, you know, I wanted to do more music. The good thing and bad thing about, and Chris would probably agree about Sloan is that we all write, but it means that, and we make a record every year and a half or two years, which means that maybe I'm releasing three or four songs if I get some B-size five songs every two or three years.

And I write so much music. And so it was like, for a while I've written with other people and stuff, but, and I continue to, I'm writing with Tara Lightfoot at the moment, but like, but like, and I like doing that, but like, I've got all this stuff and I just have all these, and I like big guitar and stuff. So I just wanted to make kind of stuff that were reflect my

aesthetic more and and so when he went and did this tons thing it was just like well fuck it then I'm doing this and so that I got together with the drummer Dean Bentley there to do this this recording and and he's been playing with us and are playing with me and and Dean used to play with John Castor in his band after doughboys and he used to play in monster voodoo machine. Yeah I saw them at Molson Park once. Yeah and so he played with him and then he's been playing with me so it all you know everything's related so yeah and then Chris I don't know he's got a couple other things he's done he's doing solo things I'm I've been doing some solo

stuff too and you know it's I mean, you, you're not going to fault somebody for making money. I mean, like we've been doing this a long time after 30 something years is like, you might as well just what it's ridiculous if you're not. And is it fair to say nowadays the money is in licensing the songs for Netflix shows or? Well, there is always been money in that and we own our, most of our publishing, we have the first two records we don't, although we should be able to get it back. And, um, I have it anyway. Um, but, uh, we own our most of our publishing we have the first two records we don't although we should be able to get it back and I have it anyway but we own everything out there Patrick well just that I I don't want to get into it

but it's fine but anyway no we own our publishing so like that's of course why else would you own it otherwise just do a publishing deal so that's been good but no that is part of it but the money is in playing live that's what it is. Right and I gotta say you guys are great live. Geez man I'd say an underrated rock band because you've been giving me thrills for 35 fucking years. I want to say thank you to Sloan. Well I appreciate it thanks for having me on. And you're again you're not a you're not a B-level member of Sloan. I don't think I am. What's the one that's above A? Oh geez, you're in A+. I think you're right up there, but I thoroughly enjoyed this man and thanks for dropping by today. Yeah, I had a good time.

Should I? That was the perfect it. Can we do it again? Do you know Holly Cole, I don't know Holly Cole, no, you just know of her you don't you don't know how I know Holly McNarland. Yeah. No, he was my neighbor for like eight years. She just goes up the street for me now Num was a song I fucking loved I mean, who is this woman that would hear on safe? Why actually no Yeah, and she had a couple of the safe way heads one particular that was all the place But num I said this puts this? Cause I was really into that sound. This one is going to be huge. I'm not, no, I just, I really was like that get her over for a con, but you're not her neighbor anymore. You're telling me.

She's in the neighborhood. I just Tell her Toronto Mike would love to chat with Holly McCormick. Oh yeah. I'm sure she would. Okay. So you take it on this here, Andrew. Andrew, Holly. Okay, but Holly Cole. Right. I'm only bringing up Holly Cole because she's visiting tomorrow.

So I was just curious on the way out if you ever had any interaction, but she's like a jazzy thing. You guys are like a rock band. Well, I mean, that doesn't, you know, like the Junos are happening in a little bit. I like going to those things because you meet all kinds of people.

We know people from different types of music, but yeah, I have never met her though. Who's your favorite member of the Trans Canada Highwayman? Craig Northey, good answer. All right and that that brings us to the end of our one thousand six hundred and yeah well, he's fucking amazing six 1654th show. So go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs.

I was on CNN last week and ever since there's been attacks on my website. Like I pissed off some mega people and I've been dealing with it all week to try to find ways to defeat these guys. So just makes me want to go at them harder. You know, we're at war here. Would you go for pleasure to the USA right now? I can't talk about the USA. That's what I kept trying.

He's tapping out everybody. They're listening to everything, man. Yeah, you'll be denied at the border. Much love to all who made this possible. That is Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto Skyline, and of course, Redlee Funeral Home. See you all tomorrow when...

I was going to say Holly McNarland, but actually it's Holly Cole who's making her Toronto Mic debut. See you all then. So So You