Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Paul Farberman: Toronto Mike'd #1601

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

In this 1601st episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Paul Farberman about The Police Picnic, Tears Are Not Enough, Celine Dion, Snow and so much more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Yes We Are Open podcast from Moneris and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1601 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Season 7 of Yes We Are Open An award-winning podcast from Minaris Hosted by FOTM Al Greg, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, committing to our planet's future means properly

recycling our electronics of the past, and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, making his Toronto Mike debut is Paul Farberman. Welcome Paul. Hi Mike, good to be back home in Toronto. Where do you call home these days? I call Toronto home, but I've lived in Los Angeles over half my life. I don't know if you can call Toronto home anymore,

if you've been in Los Angeles. So you're from LA and they have warmer temperatures in LA than they do here. Although, you know, you came, uh, it's quite mild out today. It's mild and yesterday was here. Beautiful, beautiful sunny day made even sunnier and brighter by me going see my Toronto Maypleefs win a hockey game last night. Just can you help us win in April? I'll be there. I'll be back. I like you. I'm a, I'm assuming you're a lifelong Leaf fan. Yes, I live and suffer and die with them, yes.

So I'll just remind you that in the last two decades, so the last 20 years, the Maple Leafs have won precisely one round of playoff hockey. One round in 20 years. And I say that because, yeah, we we won last night that's great. What a wonderful regular season team this is. Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Nylander, you know Morgan, Morgan Riley. What a great regular season team. But what matters to me Paul is what happens in April and May and maybe for the first time in franchise history, June.

That's what it's all about. I'm old enough to remember being alive in 1967 and standing on the street on Bay Street in front of Old City Hall with a little sign and a little picture of Dave Keon and Stanley Cuff. Was Dave Keon your favorite player back then? No, my favorite player was always Red Kelly. Okay. Well, listen, uh, soon, not yet, of course,

we'll be shouting out Ridley funeral home. At some point, there'll be no living person on this planet who was a part of the 1967 Stanley Cup champion, he believes, but I'm so glad to meet you because I mean, this is going to be quite the adventure this, uh, 90 minutes we're going to spend together because your name comes up quite often on Toronto Miked. This name, Paul Farberman, just kind of comes up. And the first time I really took note was in the episode with Katherine McClanahan, who came on Toronto Miked because she had just seen the 299 Queen Street West documentary about much music and she flew herself from

LA, she's also in California, and she was dismayed, disappointed that it was alluded in the doc, although not explicitly stated, it was alluded in the documentary that Erica M was the first female VJ, but you know better, right? Absolutely no better. Catherine was absolutely no question about it. The first female VJ to ever come on too much music on the broadcast. No, absolutely. So she came on my program, so we could just definitively state for the record Catherine McClanahan, the first woman VJ, and I'm gonna try to keep it chronological, I realize I'm already out of order,

but she dropped this fun fact. She shared with the FOTM's on Toronto Mikes, she shared the fact that she was at the recording of Tears Are Not Enough. How did Katherine get into that studio that fateful day in 1985 I want to say. How did she get in there to witness the recording of Tears Are Not Enough? I was at the time Vice President of Business Affairs, the lawyer for what was then still

called CBS Records, which became Sony. And since they were actually putting out the record, the actual recording of Tears Are Not Enough, I had the great honor and privilege really of sitting in that studio, Manta Sound on Adelaide Street and every artist, the biggest and everyone who was there from, they had to sign a release and I sat at a desk, everyone came in, I got to see everyone and sign them and I was fortunate enough to invite Catherine to come join down for that very, very historic day. She tells me you guys were dating at the time.

At that time, that's true. What a lucky man. It was very, very good time of my life. Yeah. So you're plus one with Catherine McClinahan, got her in the door. I mean, so we're going to get back to this. We're going to try to keep it chronological order.

There is a lot of ground like I want to cover with you because you came up in that episode you came up in the episode of jonathan gross there's a whole gary's component to your life and times but let's go back and by the way also rob pruss from the spoon wants me to say hello to you says you are one of the spoons lawyers back in the uh... the olden days he says you're a wonderful guy

and he hasn't seen you in ages. Very true. I actually just found a big poster of the Spoons, one of their albums and gave it to a friend of mine in Toronto yesterday to Derek, who was involved in Gary Topps book. Yeah. I saw Derek and gave him a whole bunch of stuff I collected, like the Spoons poster, a poster

Michael Giordano's album release party at the CN Tower and a bunch of other great memorabilia. You know they're making a documentary about the CN Tower. Ah. And, okay, well we've got to get that in there, okay. I just, that's a retro Ontario tidbit, okay. And you mentioned Gary Taub. So again, this is all kind of teaser, We're gonna get into this, but you may

know I moderated a panel discussion at the the Red Room at the Masonic Temple for the release of Gary Topp's book, He Hijacked My Brain, and you know we had a great panel there, and of course Ivor Hamilton was on the panel for example. You know Ivor. Of course, yeah. And the police picnic was one of the, you know, Iver, of course. Yeah. And the police picnic was a one of the, you know, keep topics I was curious about the police picnic, a Gary's presentation, but you're also possibly you'll state definitively on the record right now, this is true or false. Was that your idea, the police picnic?

It was my idea to get the police, two guys Wolfgang Siebert and Chris, I forget Chris' last name now, but they had seen this farm in Oakville. They had worked on us festivals and other festivals and production and thought this site would make a great place for a concert, but they didn't have any access to talent and being friends with the Gary's I said Gary's we got this great venue in Oakville I've been out there what do you think and I said let's go after the police. Okay so if I'm hearing this correctly no Paul Farberman no police picnic. That's true. Okay. Okay.

Well, but also no Gary's no police picnic. Yeah, that's for sure. Oh, for sure. Because they had a relationship with the police, of course. And they brought them to the, well, they started at the horseshoe tavern. I don't know. Depends who you ask, but I'm deciding now about 15 people at these horseshoe tavern police shows. I would not there. And I think the edge might have been before that. No, I think the first is horseshoe.

Because then rocks and breaks and then they don't have a problem getting 15 people to buy a ticket to see the police anymore. Everything changes after that. Okay, so let's go back. You mentioned you're a Toronto guy. And by the way, okay, there's another, sorry, but you also come up because I'm at a stewstone movie release and they're sitting there is snow. And I don't mean the snow that's going to fall at some point this season. I'm talking about Darren O'Brien in former snow and you work closely with snow, right? Absolutely. I love the man. I love him.

I'm going to get back to this later, but, uh, can you now, cause this is a recording and everything you state is legally binding. You know this as an attorney. Okay. Can you get snow to pay a visit to me in the basement for a conversation about his tremendous career? I'll talk to him about it while I'm in Toronto.

You put that a promise? That's a promise that I will talk to him about it in Toronto and I'm pretty sure I can get it. Okay. That's pretty sure I see. I can tell you're a promise? That's a promise that I will talk to about it in Toronto and I'm pretty sure I can get it. Okay, that's pretty sure. I see. I can tell you're a lawyer because that's a, just that's a, I think so, but that's not a definitive statement.

Okay. So you're going to do your best to get Darren O'Brien better known as Snow into the TMDS basement here. He is the most wonderful human being, charming and has stories that could go on all day here. I'm going to need a bigger hard drive is what you're telling me. Listen, I'll make the room for snow. I can't believe it. Okay, so I mentioned you're a lawyer. So let's go back here because some of the artists you work with right out of the hopper here. So you went to Osgoode Hall Law School and you're called to the bar. So you start as a lawyer, but what made you want to

specialize in entertainment law? I was a drummer growing up as a kid and played in played in a bunch of local bands and literally with people that I grew up with in high school like Ben Mink, still one of my dearest friends and Ben of course went on to acclaim with Bruce Coburn, Murray McLaughlin, co-wrote Constant Craving for K.D. Lang. He is best friends with Geddy Lee, he's appeared live on stage with Rush and we're still great friends. Ben's been a very successful songwriter,

artist, producer. I played in bands with another Toronto guy named Fred Mandel, who many people might not know that name, but he played through Bob Ezra on the dark side of the moon. He toured as a member for about seven years, I believe with Alice Cooper. Then for maybe five, six years with Elton John's band, two years, the world

as part of queen and, uh, also, but any bands we've heard of, come on, stuff with these obscure names. Wow. Yeah. So these are just local people. All right. Well, shout out to Bob Roper. Uh, I always think of Bob when I think of Supertrap.

And one thing, crazy thing about Ben Mink, we were in high school. He was in the house band called Mary Lou Horner, the house band at the Rock Pile. And I still have the little poster that says, Led Zeppelin featuring Jimmy Page and Mary Lou Horner. Wow, and the rock pile is 888 Young, right? Right, Masonic Temple. And so Ben in high school opened up for the first Led Zeppelin show.

And it's interesting that the poster says Led Zeppelin featuring Jimmy Page because their album had just been released. So Led Zeppelin, people didn't know them. So they had to add Jimmy Page's name to the banner. It's because he's with the birds, or the yard birds. For the yard birds, yeah.

Sorry. Yeah. Unbelievable. You mentioned Getty Lee. So when you're, you're now going to be an entertainment lawyer because you were a drummer. Shout out to David Quinton Steinberg, by the way, if he's listening. He's a drummer too. Of course. And I know David very well. And funnily enough, in collecting my memorabilia, I just handed Derek yesterday a David Quinton

45 on bomb records that I had in my collection. Okay. Cause he was at that aforementioned, uh, panel discussion I moderated at the red room because he was with the mods and they played the last Pogo. Right. Okay.

It's all going to come. And of course, as you probably know, uh, early in my career, I did a lot of the legal work for rush and full circle comes running. Yeah, buddy. At the hockey game last night. Who did I bump into my dear, dear, wonderful, wonderful friend and human being Ray Daniels, wow. The manager of Russia, of course, yeah. Manager of rush. Okay. So maybe in this early part of your career,

so you're an entertainment lawyer shout out. So you worked with some pretty big acts in this country, Rush being probably the biggest, but rush and I got a shout out cousin Janna who's listening at home that she's a big saga fan sag or saga. What do you think is a proper pronunciation? So I always say saga saga. I don't know what's the saying I worked work closer with them and Tom Cochran and red rider and triumph still Tom Cochran and Red Ryder and Triumph still stay in touch with Gil and Mike sometimes. And one of the most interesting people I met in my very beginning of my career was Jim Carey. I met Jim, my sister was at a little comedy club on Eglinton, their bathroom is called

Giggles. It was a storefront and she sees this kid there and she comes home and I had just graduated. She says I met this kid he was so funny he has no lawyer you should go meet him and I did and I was Jim Carrey's lawyer in the very beginning of his career when he was only only doing impressions. Right. Went down to LA when he moved to LA. Remember going to his place, he had just had a baby.

He had given up doing impressions. He was trying to make a career as an actor. Then he invited me one day to come to the comedy store on Sunset. There were like 10 people there. He was trying to do some very strange impressions. Impressions that became a lot of the characters that he did on The Living Colour.

Right, like Fire Marshall Bill and stuff like that. Yeah, weird stuff. And I've actually lost touch with him. I've seen him since then, but I didn't, unfortunately, go on to work with him. Yeah. It's funny because he does a pretty good parody of Snow. Yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible.

I just realized how everything, this is going to be one of those mind blows where everything's going to connect. I had on this very program, he's a hairdresser, hairstylist, hairdresser. His name is Gary Chowen. Do you know the name Gary Chowen by any chance? So Gary Chowen, uh, would cut hair for the age in court studio where I don't know all the

stuff was filmed there in aging court, right? The C the old channel nine, of course, I know. Of course. Right off the four one there. And he takes credit for getting Jim Carerey like his first ever television anything like anyways he's taking credit for this and I don't know how to like validate these claims but do you know before before in Living Colour do you have any like off the top of your head you can name check any Jim Carrey television before Living

Colour? Well I know the people who really started Jim's career were clearly in Toronto were, uh, David Holliff, who also managed Howie Mandel earlier in his career here in Toronto and a guy named, uh, Ron Scribner was the agent, Ron Scribner agency on Edmonton. And, um, yeah, they were there. Okay. I got to say, so I'm still out trying to

corroborate the Gary Chowen story. I like to believe I want, I'm like, uh, I'm like Fox Mulder. I want to believe. want I'm like I'm like Fox Mulder I want to believe okay alright a lot of mind blows here and Now I'm thinking Jim Carrey I'm thinking Mark Breslin came on this program to talk about how he saw Jim Carrey at yuck yucks because mark of course owned Yuck yucks and didn't think he was very good and didn't think he had much of a future so mark Breslin You're wrong, buddy.

How is, did you talk to Jim anytime recently? Not since I saw him a few years ago at this charity event in Phoenix, Arizona. Okay, I once saw a clip of him on CBC's Q, I think, and he name checked Ralph Ben-Murgy. And I pulled the clip, because Ralph comes over often, he's a good FOTMM and I used to produce his show and I played it for Ben Murrighi. And then I had this fantasy if I could get Jim

Carey to, cause he won't know me from Adam and would never do Toronto Mike, but Jim Carey, maybe he would talk to Ralph Ben Murrighi. This is a fantasy I have. It's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to work on that.

I'm going to wait. Hey, I want to, so there's, there's of course, yeah, you. And he does, and he's a huge, huge Toronto Maple Leaf fan, Jim is still to this day. Okay. Yeah. All the great comics like Mike Myers, uh, yeah, you, he's a huge, huge Toronto made police fan. Jim is still to this day. Yeah. All the great comics like Mike Myers, Mike Myers, a guy who started the king of Kensington, uh, I don't know if Jim Carey was old enough to get on

that show, but I want to ask you about SCTV here before we move you on to, to Sony and elsewhere, but, uh,. But you're, are you the lawyer for the Second City Comedy Troupe? Well, it's very interesting that you brought that up today because what you don't know is, in sort of before I left home in LA a few days ago, I was going through some things just to look about some stuff, old stuff that I had in my files,

and I pulled out a copy, and I actually have it here, of an agreement with RCA records and all the members of SCTV to do a comedy album that unfortunately never got signed and it was interesting. It was a guy named Dan Loggins was the A&R for RCA records in New York. Yes, the brother of Kenny Loggins. I was going to ask. And he was...

Yacht Rocks having a moment, you know. He had been up here, seen some stuff, was a big fan of SCTV and we had this whole agreement drawn up, ready to go. And it just, it never happened because everyone's schedule independently was so busy. It just never happened. Well, now I'm thinking of takeoff to the

Great White, which is Geddy Lee, of course, and Bob and Doug McKenzie. But how I got to work with SCTV is at the time I was working with a lawyer in Toronto named William Hingson. And he represented Andrew Alexander, who was the, I guess, kind of the founder of Second City. And he represented Andrew, and so that's how I got involved with SCTV. Well, I need to now, I'm going to ask you some obvious questions along the way, but one is Martin Scorsese, And, um, he represented Andrew and so that's how I got involved with SCTV.

Well, I need to, now I'm going to ask you some obvious questions along the way, but one is, uh, Martin Scorsese recorded a reunion. Were you at the reunion by any chance? I was not. You weren't? Okay. Not worth the flight. Well, you know, uh, even Rick Moranis was there

and, uh, the late grade Joe Flaherty, of course, and everybody else. And, uh, this, uh, this documentary is, uh, rotting away on a, in a vault somewhere in the Scorsese compound. I don't think we're ever going to see this documentary. Any insight, you must know people. Free the footage. We got to get to the bottom of that. I'll make the movie with Retro Ontario if I have to, my goodness gracious. Okay, so

I, and again, if any gaps along the way, you let me know, but I know you end up as Vice President, Business Affairs for Sony Music Canada. So if I skip anything exciting, you chime right in there, okay, Paul? You got it. Okay, so this is kind of on my way here. So it's while you're there that you end up at the Tears Are Not Enough recording?

Correct, yeah. Okay. Please, anything. I mean, like I'm begging you recording? Correct, yeah. Okay, please anything. I mean, like I'm begging you here, Paul, please. Okay, I spend many hours on this program talking about tears are not enough and breaking that down. One of the clips I play for every FOTM cast is David Foster is telling Neil Young to get it in key or something

and Neil says something to the effect of, that's my sound man. Exactly and it's very interesting you bring that up because again for anyone listening Mike and I have not talked about what we're talking about today and it's. Because I wouldn't let you talk to me about it. No I asked Mike before coming here today do you want to go over what we might talk about and he said no. No.

I said okay. Because that's no fun if we do that. Yeah so he doesn't it's very interesting the thing you bring it up, but no, because there are two things I put in my suitcase before I came here. One was the SCTV contract, recording contract in an album, and I brought all my memorabilia, the records, the media sheet, and everything from tears are Not Enough that I still kept, because I'm a real pack rack and collecting stuff. Well, it's good.

And you're gonna gift all that to me right now. Yeah, but during that recording session, the only time I said to David Foster that I wanna be in the sound booth, because I was such a huge fan of all the stars there, of Neil Young. And you know, it was very small, so you can't have a lot of people in there. I said, but when Neil's singing, I want to be in there.

And I was just for that part. Yeah. He's a living legend. Love that. In fact, you don't back in the day before people came in the side door, you had to walk by. I have a whole art, a drawing of Neil Young in the hallway upstairs. Love Neil Young so much. I had tickets to his second Toronto show and he canceled it. Yeah, he canceled the second show. I am lucky this summer he was supposed to do the Hollywood Bowl in LA, but he was also playing,

his first show on tour was actually in San Diego. And I didn't know, I was visiting my daughters who were in college, San Diego State University, and I see a sign, Neil Young, and I go, what the fuck is Neil Young doing at a campus? These kids won't even know who he is, but there's a beautiful outdoor venue there. And I called my dear friend from Toronto, Arthur

Fogle, of course, is one of the most senior executives in the world at Live Nation in LA. And he arranged a great ticket for me to go. And I saw Neil's show there with, with crazy words, it was incredible. And as funny things happen, the Hollywood Bull show got canceled. So if I had waited for that show, I wouldn't

have seen him on this tour. I actually have a similar regret, which is there were two Toronto shows and one, and then there's a two months later he was coming back and I was, I had an opportunity to go to the first show and I passed because I had tickets to the second show and I have seen Neil Young before but I figure I'm gonna catch him in August or whatever and then he cancelled my show

So now it's like I don't know how many more shows how many more tours he's got left in him But I got a hope he comes back I'm sure you don't know this about me But I at 16 years old went to Woodstock and the reason I went to Woodstock I mean it was incredible talent, but what tipped me over the edge was when I found out, oh my god, Neil Young is playing for the first time ever with Scrawlip, Stills and Nash. I have to be there. And you're lucky you were there because he wouldn't let the film crew film him for the documentary. And not only was I at Woodstock at 16 years old, I was backstage on stage. I have pictures

that have that I've taken from the front of the stage of some of the artists. I only have 12 pictures because I had an Instamatic camera with that little roll and when I ran out of film there wasn't exactly a place to buy film at Woodstock. Paul, this is unbelievable. So yeah, keep this coming. That's unbelievable. But somebody who was not at Woodstock, although she should have been at Woodstock, but she went on a talk show instead, but she wrote a great song about Woodstock,

is Joni Mitchell. Yes, indeed. So I'm taking you back to that recording of Tears Are Not Enough, because I got a few more questions here. So Joni Mitchell's there, Gordon Lightfoot's there, I mean, Geddy Lee of course is there, you know, Brian Adams who helped co-write it with Jim Valance I suppose, the words at least. Absolutely.

And then David Foster of course was the producer. Richard Manuel from the band. Okay, some questions I've had for a while now. So Leona Boyd's been on this program a few times and congratulations Leona. I understand you've just been pointed. I don't know what you're pointing to the order of Canada, something yeah she got a upgrade as they said that she's got an upgrade here. I you know she dated the former Prime Minister Pierre Elliott. No, I was very good, very good friends with Leona for many years.

And yeah, she had a mystery because there's in the doc that was made, that was released in 85. She's being escorted into the building by somebody, but she was never able to figure, she never knew who that person was. And she always wondered. And we did crack, we did crack the code. I'm trying to remember who it was actually. Honey, not Honeyman Sweet. He was a member of a band that'll come to me in a minute here. Geez, can't remember right now. But I want to ask you about Mark Holmes. So do you have any memory of Mark Holmes at this recording?

Because he infamously arrives at this benefit for famine relief in a limo. Yes, of course. I actually remember he was actually one of the artists who was signed to CBS Records. arrives at this benefit for famine relief in a limo. Yes, of course. I actually remember he was actually one of the artists who was signed to CBS records at the time. And yeah, he was there with all his puffy hair and Mark's a great guy. I'm still friends with him.

I just saw their reunion show a few months ago where they were touring with... Platinum Blondes. With Billy Ado, yeah, Platinum Blondes. Yeah. And they were touring with Platinum Blondes this summer. But Mark, in his younger early days of fame, had a rock and roll attitude,

and thought he was a bigger know, a bigger ego. He was one of the newer stars there, but he had a bigger ego than the stars who maybe. Well, cause Neil Young took a cab there. Yeah, yeah. But Mark, you know, I love you, but the facts are the facts. I've been trying to get Mark Holmes on this program.

Now I'm trying to think of who else was young. Well, Corey Hart was there. He was a young up and coming kind of guy. And Brian Adams was still pretty young at that time. But so before we leave, tears are not enough. Is there anything I somebody like me should know? You were there. Is there anything like that? I should know about.

But what's interesting, you mentioned Brian Adams just now and and Corey Hart, you know, people I know both well, and it's it's an overstated generalization. But they are such nice guys. And Canadians, really, as a generalization, we're nice people. And it's just interesting because they are all those people's names you mentioned. They're really, to this day, great, humble, proud Canadian guys. And I just remember the band that had the member escort, Leona Boyd, into the Manta sound?

Is that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was a member of Loverboy. Ah. Somebody in Loverboy. It was probably, it was Mike Reno. No, it wasn't Mike Reno.

No? No? No, Mike Reno. Mike was there. Yeah, Mike had a big part of me. Yeah. And I'm still in touch with them I saw them. Can you get me Mike Reno on this program? You know, I'm gonna try from now on would you be the Booker of the Toronto Mike? Yeah, I guess yeah, we should get Mike on here

I can't believe he's not done it and I have had Tom Cochran on but I had to do it at a golf course But he did promise if you had a 90 minutes while he was in Toronto at some point, he would come by for a deeper dive. So we still need a longer episode of Tom Cochran's. I'm just throwing that out there too. And you should get my dear friend Larry Gowin on if you're having Mr. Gowin on.

He did it, but he did it via Zoom. I would love to get a sequel in here where he comes into the studio. We, yeah, Larry was great. But now of course we were skipping the obvious, which is it's about time Getty Lee appear on Toronto mic'd, what's going on there? Let's get Getty Lee on Toronto mic'd.

Well, let's. Let's spend the next hour talking about all the people you're going to get on Toronto mic'd here. Okay. So tears are not enough. Uh, how long did you date Catherine McClanahan for? It was about a year. Yeah.

Okay. That's a still best year of your life. Yeah. All right. Where do I go next? Can we go to IRS records? And if I skip anything, you'll just tell you'll let me know right if I skip anything Yeah, so it's it's you know, I worked on the police picnic with the Gary's. Oh, yeah, let's do that. Sorry and well, but

That's where I first met Miles Copeland. Okay, and it's interesting that Miles Copeland is the man who brought me to America Hired me to work at IRS records Sponsored me for my visa and yeah, he's the founder of IRS records and we're gonna talk about REM and more here in a moment here But let's go back to that police picnic for a minute Okay, so so how did you you just knew the Gary's because you were representing all these musicians Is that how you know Gary Gary's? Or how do you know Gary Taub and Gary Comye? I think really just being a fan of music and going to a lot of shows, the Gary's. And going to the Edge, which was also Ron Chapman ran the Edge where they did shows there with Ron.

And so just really from going to shows, not so much from my clients, so much as just being a music fan. And yeah. Iran and and just really from going to show not so much from my clients so much as just being a music fan and Yeah, and then you kind of gave us a little origin story of the police picnic But did you have anything to do with the the second police picnic? No I After the first police picnic I decided I'm gonna be a lawyer. I'm gonna be a manager. I'm gonna be an executive I'm not gonna be a promoter. That was an incredible experience. I loved the experience, but realized let it be done by the people who really know how to do it. Okay, because I know the second police picnic features Spoons, the aforementioned Spoons, and so you

were their lawyer, so they're one of the bands you worked with when you were at Sony? Like where did the Spoons come from? No, they were, I think, signed to, if I'm not mistaken, to Ready Records was their label. Right, right, right, right. Okay, so IRS Records is the most obvious name before they, I would say sold out, but they still controlled their own destiny, so it's one of those sellouts where they can still make

their own music, so why the hell not get more distribution or whatever, but R.E.M. I want to talk about. Yeah, IRS Records was the kind of label that, if you were a music fan of that style of music, you would buy something that came out on IRS even if you didn't know the artist because if it was on IRS that was like a stamp of approval that it was probably pretty cool, good music. Well that's sort of why you would go to a Gary show. Yeah, there you go.

Because Gary's weren't going to bring somebody in unless they legit like the artist. Yeah, you may not have heard of the artist but if if the Garry's are doing it, must be something good. Well, I mean, the Garry's would, for example, bring in the English beat, for example. And they were at IRS. So like just, I'm going to run down some names and any stories you want to share. But in addition to working with REM, which I can't even imagine, the Go-Go's, Oingo Boingo, Fine Young Cannibals, The Alarm, Stuart Copeland who you mentioned earlier, Timbuk3, The English Beat, Concrete Blonde,

like this is amazing, you're working with these artists. It was an incredible, amazing time. It's interesting why I went there. At the time I was working at CBS Records, Sony here, and I was a senior executive there, and I knew that if I played my cards right and stayed here, there was a chance that I could one day be the president of Sony Music Canada.

No guarantee, of course, but it was a chance. And then the opportunity came up to go to IRS Records, which was a small independent label, but a pretty cool label. But I was a little concerned about leaving here, and I didn't really have friends and family in LA. And I decided, well, look, if it doesn't work out, I could always come back. And so I sort of, and at the time I was single, I didn't know no home, so I had nothing, no wife or kids to worry about, no mortgage, and I figured, pick up and didn't own a home. So I had nothing no wife or kids to worry about no mortgage

and I figured pick up and go and take a shot and so I did move to LA and Got my visa and started working for that company was Incredible artists like you mentioned what a career were you at IRS when REM left? Yes What was that like when the RM tells you they're going to leave for one of the big companies? They were great guys. Their management was really, really good people. And they just felt the reason really is,

they felt that as successful as they'd become, they wanted and thought they could achieve more success than they were getting internationally and they had the opportunity to go to Warner Brothers, I'm pretty sure it was, who were giving them all kinds of promises and commitments and probably money. And they were going to stay out of their creative business. Supposedly and they maybe did too, yeah that was the plan and and I know they had a very civilized conversation with Miles Copeland and Jay Boberg who were in IRS. You know, it wasn't a party that was, it was a source bot, but it was, you know, I think

Jay and Miles kind of understood they'd been so successful for IRS and it's like, hey, good luck guys, let's, you know, good luck in the future. And there was a good relationship still with them in past catalog things that happened. Right. But, I mean, it sounds like you, you know, Stuart Copeland, you referred to earlier, but Fine Young Cannibals, okay, you're there in 88. So when is the She Drives Me Crazy era?

Are you there for that? Yeah, it's funny. The Raw and the Uncooked, I'm trying to remember the name of this damn CD, The Raw and the Uncooked or something like that. Yeah, you're reading my mind because I was going to mention it because it's one of those mysteries. It was such a big album,

Roland Gryff, incredible singer. And just like some of these great musicians, he didn't want to follow it up. He was like, no, I'm done. Didn't want to go out and continue. He was like going to be an actor, right? I remember I saw him in Baghdad Cafe or something. He was doing some acting. Didn't want to continue recording. That's interesting. Because he had there,

I knew of him, uh, Johnny, that's right. Before that big album, Johnny, we're worried. Won't you come on? He does that falsetto, which I won't even try to do. It's going to be, we're going to turn this thing off, but he, he followed the single on that album, the big album, so she drives me crazy, of course. And then Good Times, Good Times or Good Thing? Good Thing, Good Thing. Yeah. Do, do, do, do, do.

Huge hit too. And you're right, I can't name, I can't name a song after that album from Fine Young Cannibal. No, they just decided to pack it in. You almost have to respect that. I feel like that's kind of amazing to walk away because these follow-up to the big album, sometimes they can suck and you'll still sell a ton, right?

Absolutely. It's the tale of that big album. It's like you're gonna sell, people are gonna buy it week one and then it'll have a big dip, but they're gonna buy it right away. Okay, so you're at IRS. Any other memories of IRS you want to share before

I move you over to Universal Pictures? I just I loved working with Miles and Jay, I thought they were such creative people, innovative people, they both had a passion and love for the music. And it's sadly the kind of thing that doesn't really exist too much with exception in the record business anymore. Is it possible, because I'm almost saying this sentence, I'm almost like Mike, they're so huge, how can you say this? But I actually still think R.E.M. are underappreciated and underrated. I would definitely say so in terms of the mass appeal in terms of they never, yeah, for what they did and the kind of style

of music they did, their characters, their personalities, Michael Stipe, incredibly creative, intelligent individual. And I always felt there was a little bit of Michael Stipe in our own Gore Downey. Ah, well it's interesting you say that because I remember coming up to Toronto with Jay Boberg who ran the label for miles and we saw them, Gordon Tresikip, at a little club. I don't remember if it was in Kensington, on Augusta Avenue in Kensington Market, upstairs,

little club because they were- Showcasing? What were they doing there? Showcasing, well for. Yeah, but Jake Old wanted to show. Yeah, to see, to get them signed to the deal. And again, I'm not sure why it never happened, but I remember. Because they signed with MCA, as I recall.

Yeah, at some point. But yeah, IRS was looking to sign them, but never did though. Fascinating, fascinating. They had the EP and then their first major debut is up to here in 89. Yeah. And the rest is history.

My goodness gracious. Okay. All right. Well, this is kind of something very different I find. Well, you're still working in entertainment. You're an entertainment lawyer for goodness sakes, but you're now working with universal

pictures from 91 to 95, a few indie films. I just want to know if anyone out there has heard these indie films. We mentioned the Baghdad cafe. Okay. I don't know how many people have seen that, but I love that movie. I Jurassic park.

What kind of, what is this indie? They were playing at the Carlton cinema. I think Jurassic park Schindler's list scent of a woman like Apollo 13. What the heck are you doing for like a movie like Jurassic park, which by the way, coincidentally, before I knew you had anything to do with this movie. It's on crave now or, or Bill Menio, streaming service, and you Americans, I know you're a Toronto boy, but it just got added and I watched it the other day and I wanted to see how it held up and there's some of the CGI, I'm like, oh yeah,

well that was early days and we've come a long way, but mostly because of the practical effects and everything, what a great movie Jurassic Park still holds up. What did you do with Jurassic Park? Wait, and don't forget great music movie. Oh, Jason Confuse. The soundtrack, I bet you, was more than the budget for the rest of the film. I love that movie. Yeah. Yeah. So what are you doing?

You're just working because I don't even remember any music in Jurassic Park. So I was responsible for, you know, negotiating the composer agreements, who both did the score, and as well as all the licensing of music for the film. And if there was a soundtrack album, which was much more popular, yeah, then putting that together.

And Reality Bites too was a big deal. Reality Bites was a huge soundtrack, and those kinds of things were so much fun to work on. So they say basically what happens is the filmmaker for Days and Confused for example, does a filmmaker like okay I want to use these songs and then you know you go out and find out oh you're gonna need a bigger budget like I said of Jaws you're gonna need a bigger boat. Well it's interesting about the budgets you mentioned because when they're making films even even these huge, huge studio pictures,

the last thing is the music. Of course, the composer can't write the music until the film's shot, and so by the time you get to doing the music, the films are always over budget, and now there's no much, where's all the budget for the music? It's gone, because they had to use it for something else,

so it's always on a shoestring and trying to find the money to get artists to perform new songs or write new songs or pay for the licensing of the masters and the publishing. But yeah, and there's usually, or often a music supervisor involved, the producer and the director work closely with and that music supervisor suggests music. Because that's that Daze and Confuse for example a

movie I've seen many times. Yeah it's fun. The soundtrack is everything. Yeah. Like and I own the soundtrack on CD. Yeah. So you owe me a few bucks there but I proudly have a gold record on my wall from that movie. Yeah. It's it's I'm one. Was there any examples of like a song that the music supervisor really wanted for a movie we've heard of but simply was out of budget or simply couldn't be attained? That's a big question. But none that I recall. Okay.

And is it reality? But like sometimes I confuse my Gen X movies. But does reality bites? Is that the movie with my Sharona in it?, sometimes I confuse my Gen X movies, but does reality bites, is that the movie with my Sharona in it or am I confusing my Gen X? Maybe I'm thinking of a, I feel like. I don't remember. Okay.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's been a long time. I don't think so. I don't think that was in. All right. I'll Google it in a minute when I get you rocking on the next topic.

But these are some big, I mean, these are, I mean, they doesn't get any bigger than Jurassic Park. You know, there's no, I can't say what's bigger than Jurassic Park, I guess. Well, nowadays of inflation. than Jurassic park. You know, there's no, I can't say, Oh, what's bigger than Jurassic park? I guess, uh, well nowadays of inflation. I do remember on Schindler's list before it actually got into the stores when there were CDs in the world, Steven Spielberg's name was

spelled wrong. We all, our whole department went, well, he was an up and coming filmmaker. Nobody had heard of him. Okay. So you're, uh, you're excused there. I've Googled reality bites yep it is it is my Sharona all right in reality bites soundtrack I'm reading now

yeah okay and of course the Lisa Loeb song comes out of that course yeah and that was directed I think Ethan Hawke directed that video I remember correctly here they may or may not have been dating but I can see that Julianne Hatfield three are in there these this is taking me, all I want is you from you two is on that soundtrack. And Crowded House is on there? Okay, everybody. Incredible music, yeah.

You knew you had a role in that. That's a mind blow there. Okay, so now we're just warming up here, okay? And I loved working at Universal Pictures and then Substitutely Fox because, you know when you're at a record, like IRS, you're involved with the music, but it's a particular style of rock music pretty much and when you're working

at a film studio like that it could be rock it could be country it could be opera it could be classical it could be any style of music and it was such an eye-opener for me and have that opportunity to work with so many and working with you know the number one composers on the planet Earth. John Williams you're talking about. Oh God, yeah. That's it, still with us. Yeah, John Williams.

No shout out to Ridley Funeral Home Required. Yeah. Unbelievable, unbelievable. Yeah, and then of course eventually with James Horner. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well that's gonna, yeah, that's gonna, we're gonna talk Celine Dion in a moment here,

but we gotta get you, so 20th Century Fox, you move over there in the mid 90s. Yes, and I learned a life's lesson in moving. Can I ask you, the grass is always greener. What is your life lesson? It's exactly right. I loved working at Universal Pictures. My boss, Harry Garfield, I was hired by Bert Berman,

Bert left, and Harry Garfield, who was my buddy working alongside me, he got the promotion to that job. He was like my best friend, became my boss, and one day the same job that I had, same title, vice president, business fair of music, came available at 20th Century Fox. And I spoke to them, and they were offering a lot more money.

And I went back to Harry, said, Harry, you know, he said, Paul, nothing I can do. And I went, well, I went to Fox. And the fact is, I met with the people there. Robert Kraft was my boss who hired me, Matt Walden. I love those guys, till this day I do. Still in touch with them. But I was also, at when I worked for Bert and Harry,

we were the music department and we were completely separate. I was a lawyer, but I had nothing to do with the legal department. We were in music and I was in the music department. At Fox it was split. I was sort of reporting half to the music and half to the legal department.

But at this time I was a far cry from sort of being a stuffy lawyer in my mind. And I didn't see eye to eye with the people who ran the legal business fair side at Fox. And I was not happy there. I wasn't miserable. I mean, I loved my job there, but it was like if Harry at Universal had called me and said, Paul, you know, the guy we hired to replace you, it's not working out. Can you come back? I would have said, okay, I'll be there tomorrow. Right. So my lesson was I always tell people when you're thinking of moving to a new job and it looks so great, remember this, where you are right now, you know, the players, you know, the playing field,

you know, the good and the bad where you're going. It may look incredible, but no matter how good it looks until you're there on the job, you don't know. So just think long and hard when you're going to the game, you're going to the game, you're going to the game, you're going to the game, you're going, it may look incredible, but no matter how good it looks, until you're there on the job, you don't know. So just think long and hard when you're thinking of moving.

The devil you know, right? The devil you know. Yeah, but things did work out at Fox, and then I certainly wasn't miserable there, but I was rescued. Okay, before we get to Fox, we won't spend much time there. I'll just shout out some of the films you worked on. And then there's a TV show that's very near

and dear to my heart. I want to ask you about, but Independence Day. So you're back to the little indie films. Yeah. Independence Day, that thing you do. Oh, it was fun. And then the Romeo, the Baz Luhrmann, uh, Romeo and Juliet with the Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire

Daines. Yeah. We have great memories. Yeah. And the truth about cats and dogs, I remember this as well. Yes. But I got to ask you about The Simpsons. So The Simpsons was the big Fox show and can you share any,

like what were you doing on The Simpsons? Not a lot, to be honest, because it was just kind of a smooth operating shift to people who were on the TV division. Me and a guy named Jeff Bywater and Mary Jo Manilow was involved in the song music there. They kind of ran a very tight ship and I didn't have to do too much to be honest with them. Okay.

Well, there you go. That's my Simpsons quotient filled. I still love the Simpsons here. Okay. I hadn't been on the Fox lot for many, many years until last week when I went to a screening of the new movie, the Bob Dylan movie. Oh yeah, of course.

And it was on the Fox lot, so it was really kind of brought back a lot of good memories actually, not bad memories, being back home on the Fox lot and in the theatre there watching the screening. And the cast was there for the screening. Timothy Shaleman. Yeah, he was there, all the cast was there, moderated by Gwyneth Paltrow.

Yeah, so it was a pretty fun evening. Okay, so my Dylan contribution here is to tell everybody that Lauren Honickman, who is also a lawyer, do you know? Yes, I know the name. I don't know. Well, he was on city TV as their, so before he became a lawyer, he was like the legal

specialist and then he, he went and got his, whatever law degree and he got called to the bar or whatever you guys say, you lawyer guys say. That's lawyer talking over there. Okay. But then he, uh, so he was, now he's a lawyer, but he's a huge Dylan fanatic. And I'm going to produce a new Bob Dylan podcast

for Lorne Honigman. So there's the exciting news for all the Dylan heads. That's coming very, very soon here too. Okay, let's talk about Celine Dion. How do you end up working with Celine Dion? Bury me in the details here. This is the next chapter of your life and this chapter goes from 97 to 2014. That's a long chapter. It was my good fortune to be working at CBS when she signed to the label. She recorded a French album when she

recorded her very first English album. Is that Unison? Unison, that's 100% right. I, that's when I moved to LA to go work with Miles. So she came down to LA to record at David Foster's studio in Malibu and remember she's never recorded in English. Nobody knows her. So they didn't know anybody had no friends and Renee Inslee would would say Paul come have dinner come have lunch come hang out And so we spent a lot of time with them there and then over the years while I'm living and working in LA She would come down to Record an album do a TV show shoot a video an award, and they always, Renee and I would call me,

and we became good friends. I mean, you know, her husband, Renee. And sometimes over the years, through all the jobs, we would talk jokingly and sometimes seriously, you know, Paul, one day, you got to come work with us, you got to come work with us. And it happened one day while I was working at Fox. I remember I was having Rexima Day and he kept me waiting, Renee. And there was not a nicer man on the planet than Renee

and charming and just kind and so good to everybody. And he was so apologetic for keeping me waiting so long. And it was some issue, he was talking about legal thing, and I said to him, well, you see, Renee, and I just kind of, I said, if I was working for you, you wouldn't have to deal with this shit. And he goes, you're right, Paul, this is the time. And he literally offered me the job that day.

And you were vulnerable because you weren't ecstatic at Fox. I could be between the lines here. But this was a dream because I knew Renee and Celine. Dave Plattel who worked alongside me at Sony and went to work with Renee and Celine as part of their management team very early on in their career was there and I knew all the people there and I thought this would be like a dream. And remember she's, this is pre-Titanic, but she's already a huge, huge global star. Right.

Uh, it was pre-Titanic, but it would just coincident and all that Titanic situation, which is a great story. Happened right at that time. Well, give me that story. So I'm now offered the job. I accept the job. I'm going to go work for Renee and Celine Dion. I tell my boss of the Fox. They're thrilled Wow Celine Dion fantastic I'm sitting in my office on the trailer on the Fox lot You know, I've given two weeks notice whatever and I get a call from Michael Gorefane

Who's the agent for James Horner, the composer of the music for Titanic. And Mike says to me, Paul, he's finished the score James. And now that he's finished it, it cries out for a song. So he called his lyricist, Will Jennings. They've written a song. We would love to play it for Celine. Now at this point, my boss has not heard the song. James Cameron has not heard the song. John Landau, the producer of the movie has not heard the song. James Cameron has not heard the song. John Landau, the producer of the movie has not heard the song

because James Cameron was very insistent about this being a doctor drama of historical proportion. So there was, he didn't want any Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion, end title song. There was the only music had to be original score or when the ship was playing what they're playing going down, but no new music, nothing commercial like that. So he didn't want it. I said, okay.

So I arranged to go, this was way, way, way, way before Celine's residency Vegas, but they always loved Vegas for me and Celine. Renee to gamble, Celine to sit in the pool and hang out with her parents, go shopping. And I went with James Horner and Michael Gorfain, was in the hotel room with them and Celine and Renee and James Horner sat at the piano, played the song, sang and he can't sing. And Renee suggested that in there and they talked about the movie,

that why don't we have Celine do a demo? And Gorfain said, well, we didn't come here to ask Celine Dion to do a demo, for God's sake. And Renee goes, yeah, but if James Cameron's going to hear the song, let him hear it with Celine, not a demo singer. Good idea. And Celine was kind of rolling her eyes because the song wasn't resonating, you know, but she did the demo and it's, but the story isn't

over so she does the demo. This was, we had a screening of the movie in New York, it came out on Christmas Day the movie, but it was in August I remember there was a screening, James Cameron was there, John Landau, all the, Tommy Matola, all the Sony senior execs, of course, Renee and Celine, and we watched the movie, and it was a longer version than the final cut, which was long, and we had a meeting the next day,

and Sony did not want Celine to do the song. Now, if you were alive back then, and reading the trades, you know, the variety. I was alive, and I remember this, because they were alive back then and reading the trades, you know, I was alive and I remember this because they were calling it like fish tar or something like that. Yeah, because it was, they were fighting on the set when they're making the movie. It was so far over budget. This movie was a true life disaster. Nobody wanted to go near it.

It was going to be a disaster. Yeah. Why Celine would you want it? And it's called Titanic, so it's right for a disaster. But Renee and Celine watched the movie and they were caught up in the love story. It totally captured them. And so again, they said we're going to do it. Now, Sony was still not convinced of the song and they never planned to release it. And I remember New Year's Day, John Delp, who was Celine's executive at Sony, still there,

called me saying, Paul, I'm trying to find Rene. Can you find him? Where is he? The song is exploding. And it was just a phenomenon. That song on Celine's album, which is unbelievable, it's over 30 million worldwide. And the soundtrack, James Horner's score that only contains that one song is about 30 million worldwide and the soundtrack, James Horner's score that only contains that one song is about 30 million worldwide.

So James, that song is like on 60 million albums. That, that was a perfect storm that, I mean, like I do remember the advanced hype was like, this is going to sink like a lead balloon. Right? Yeah. It was, and I mean, we're comparing, I remember like water world, remember?

Cause I was, I was working at universal for water world. Cause that was, that may have been the one that got the fish tar references, cause ish tar was this famous bomb. And I've never, have you ever seen ish tar? No, neither of I, but of course somebody told me it's not as bad as you think. Like I should probably revisit ish tar, but a Titanic. And then again, you have the have the young heartthrob Leonardo DiCaprio and you had young women seeing the movie four, five, six, seven times for Leo,

these crying parties, etc. But I do remember the length because when you rented that one on VHS it came on two cassettes. This is what I remember about Titanic. You had to get the switch up cassettes and that takes you back right there. And I tell you, like I keep everything, I still have my tickets, my invitations to the Academy war, to the Titanic, you know, you know, opening night, gala party and, and all,

everything goes along with it. Yeah. That's unbelievable. Again, you're working with all these indie projects, these indie artists like Celine Dion, like I don't even know that there's nothing much bigger on the planet here than all this, but just to, I'm gonna read actually, I'm gonna read this,

but you're basically involved in the day-to-day management of Celine Dion's career, and basically that means handling all business affairs, you gotta deal with Sony of course, and all the music publishing, merchandise, live performances, the licensing of the master recordings, the film and television stuff. There's a lot in this bucket here.

And there's no, I mean, I mean, how many artists are bigger than Celine Dion on this planet? This is like... Yeah, just to make no mistake, that's all true. But clearly, Renée was the manager and Dave Plattel, very, very much part of the senior manager. I was part of the team working for Dave and Rene.

So why does it end for you working so closely with Celine Dion in 2014? It was not my choice to leave. It was working one of the biggest artists in the world, touring the world, doing things I could never have dreamt of doing. And they were both Renee and Celine and Dave and Barry and Rob and John and the whole team of people were the nicest people on the planet. They really surrounded themselves with good people. And Renee, when Renee got ill and he knew he was dying,

the finance guy in Montreal and Laval Renee it got when Renee got ill and he knew he was dying They The finance guy in Montreal and Laval who ran the finance for the company decided we need to cut some costs in there They just thought they didn't need to keep me on the payroll They had an outside lawyer who's always been the lawyer they'd need it and I was just part of the management But they you know the expense of my salary, I had an office, a secretary, et cetera. So, Renee called me graciously, and like a real mensch, and there was nothing to work out.

They gave me a very nice severance package. There was no talk about anything bad. I remained on good terms with Renee and Celine, and when Renee sadly passed away, not that much longer, Celine called me to ask to be one of the people who spoke at his service, which was very difficult. And until this day, I've always maintained a relationship and even, and for people who may have seen

her recent documentary, there's this crazy little part in there my mom's to uh... uh... a hundred and two years old but two years ago when she turned a hundred i said today for tell us a date if you were slain and you know and trying around to cover the news one with my mom happy hundred birthday and she did and and it was very touching because

for those very gracious of Dave who actually was with the hockey game last night, he's still my dear friend, but it was very nice of Dave because at this time it was Covid, she was not talking or doing anything and so he didn't not to bother for something silly like that, why? But he did and it really touched me that because she wasn't doing anything and as simple as is, it was nice that she took the time. And for some unknown reason to me, that little clip is actually in the movie. See I gotta rewatch it now that we're buds,

I gotta revisit that. But I just- Yeah, David Foster's not in the movie, no one else in the movie, but you hear, oh, Celine, you hear Dave going, it's time to do the birthday greeting for Paul's mom, Dorothy. Oh my God. And then you hear Celine go, hey, Dorothy, I wanna join Paul and all the family. So yeah, Paul's mom, Dorothy. Oh my god. And then you hear something and you go, hey, Dorothy, I want to join Paul and all the family.

So yeah, it's kind of funny. But I wish her all the well, you know, wish her well in everything she's hopefully continuing to do. Did you? Yeah. You know, yeah, you know, business never personal. So this stuff happens. But are you at all responsible for the cover, her live cover of ACDC's Shook Me All Night

Long? for the cover, her live cover of ACDC's shook me all night long. No, I remember being in Vegas at the MGM when she was doing that at Soundcheck for what I think was one of the VH1 Divas show, but I had nothing to do with it. Okay, so you're off the hook for that one. I know we can't all be perfect. Okay, what a career, but you know, okay,

well maybe we should skip the ACDC covers, but Celine Dion. Man, oh man, we had a run there in this country, okay, well maybe we should skip the ACDC covers here by Celine Dion. Man, oh man, we had a run there in this country in the 90s and beyond really, but I'm thinking of like Alanis Morissette, Shania Twain, of course Celine Dion. Like there was a run where the greatest female voices in the planet for pop music were coming out of this country. There's no question. They, I mean, and Shania- Sarah McLachlan, maybe not on that elite list,

but what an amazing musician she is too. An incredible human being too, with her charitable work and foundation and everything, wonderful. I was at Massey Hall when she was just inducted into the- Yeah, I was there. You were there too, okay, we could have bumped into each other.

I bumped into a bunch of great FOTMs that night, but Tom Cochran, of course, is that why you were there? No, Tom and Blue Rodeo. I was Blue Rodeo's lawyer and I still have their record when they were a group, when Greg and Jim were a group called the Hi-Fis. I played, when I was in the woodshed talking to Jim Cuddy, I played some, with Hi-Fis?

Hi-Fis, H-I-F-I. I played some. Like an Hi-Fi record, Hi-Fis. I played some for them. Wow, okay, love them too, yeah. They got a documentary coming out. That's what I heard, yeah. Were you in Banff for the, there was a launch

at Banff or something. No, I know, no, it wasn't. I heard about it, yeah. See, I get these PR and they're like, hey, would you, and I said, I think I said something like, oh, I'll put Jim, because I produced the Humble and Fred show, and I said, oh, I'll put Jim Cuddy on Humble and Fred because he can zoom in or whatever.

I said, get me Greg Keeler. I've had my long deep dive with Jim. I want to talk to Greg Keeler. So maybe that'll happen. Maybe it won't, but I kept waiting for them to send me to Banff for that premiere. I never came. Where's my invitation to Banff?

And as you know, you were there, they gave great speeches at Massey Hall. Yeah. Well, Ron McClain. Oh, I was saying incredible. Right. But that story, I, so that story actually I had heard from, uh, well, Jeff Merrick I, so that story actually I had heard from,

well, Jeff Merrick told me that story about the 72 summit series and then Bobby or trying, he was hurt, but they were testing them out and they needed a goalie and there is a goalie from the Marlboro's and there's a Greg Heeler between the pipes. Take him. Unbelievable.

It's yeah. And Ron McLean who may have been a couple of bottles deep at that point. He's a very good one. Music and sports converge. There's not many better. Well, I didn't know that. So I'm wondering why is Ron McLean on stage?

Well, there you go. He's a, and he loves his music. I've had Ron over here. He loves his music and he loves his Great Lakes beer. So here, let me do this real quick here. And then we're going to get back to your, uh, esteemed career here, but you don't drink beer. I learned this. So this is but everyone who drinks beer knows the most delicious fresh craft beer is brewed right here in southern Etobicoke. Believe

it or not, it comes from Great Lakes Brewery. And I want to thank GLB. They'll be hosting us at a couple of events in 2025. And we love our relationship with Great Lakes Beer. I have a great relationship with Palma Pasta. So Paul, do you eat Italian food? Oh my God, absolutely. Yes. You never know. I have, and I know you're, I don't know where you're staying or whatever, but I have in my freezer

upstairs, I have a large lasagna from Palma Pasta. If I could give that to you, would you take it? I will absolutely take it and enjoy every bite. Delicious. Shout out to Palma Pasta. They will host us to at a TML X event in 2025. This wireless speaker, you can listen to us slow ride. I'm thinking of all the songs I heard on Dazed and Confused. What a great soundtrack that was, but you can also listen to season seven of Yes, we

are open, which is an award winning podcast from Minaris hosted by FOTM Al Gregor. He went to Winnipeg and collected some great stories from small business owners and he's been packaging them up in season seven of Yes We Are Open, but not only Winnipeg because I got to shout out Ty the Christmas Guide. It's his season and he's got a great store called Retro Festive. It's in Oakville and he was the season finale guest on Yes We Are Open and I was the season finale guest on yes, we are open and I urge everyone to listen, including you, Paul. I'll do it. You got to do it on that new speaker you got there. I know you can't afford a good speaker

like that. So there you go. I want to also give you a measuring tape, the green measuring tape that's from Ridley funeral home. And I urge everyone to subscribe and listen to life's undertaking, which is a great podcast from Ridley Funeral Home that I get to produce and co-host, and he'll be here Wednesday, Brad Jones, to record a new episode. What else? Piece of advice, because you live in LA,

so this will not help you, but all your loved ones, your mom's 102? 102, yeah, just saw her yesterday. She lives in Toronto? Lives here in Toronto, yeah. Okay, your mom's probably got a drawer full of old cables, old electronics, old devices. Who knows what's going on there?

Don't have her throw that in the garbage. She needs to go to recyclemyelectronics.ca and find out where she can drop that off to be properly recycled so those chemicals do not end up in our landfill. Good idea. Peter Gross's mom is 101 and Peter wanted her to come on Toronto Mike to talk about like

stuff that you never click. What was it like living through the great depression, you know, all these things I can't really ask many guests about. And she said yes. And we were like very excited because it was going to be Peter Gross, his mom, Marilyn and I were going to be on this show.

And then, uh, she calls up her son, Peter and says, I've given it some more thought and I've lived my whole life not being famous. And she was worried being on Toronto Mike would make her too famous. And she's decided not to appear on Toronto Mike. So Marilyn Gross will never be as famous as she deserves to be

because she's not gonna visit the basement like you're doing right now. All right. There you go. So we'll get your mom on Toronto Mike. Okay. All right. So we've covered a lot of ground.

This is kind of a recap as we wind down here, but the you're in town for how long? I'm heading back on Thursday. How many FOTMs will you have either lunch with or met while you're here? Because you told me you had lunch with Gary Top. That's true. Okay.

And that was like today or yesterday? Today. And did you tell Gary you're going to be on Toronto Mike? Yeah. And what did Gary say? Have fun. Get that lasagna, he said. Get that lasagna. Okay. Are you going to see FOTM Jonathan Gross? I'm having breakfast with him at Bagel World on Wednesday. And how do you know Jonathan exactly? Oh, geez. I don't know. From the Seinfeld episode, the Fusilli Jerry episode? No, I know. You know, he lived in LA for a long time and he's one of the people, when that Northridge

earthquake happened, his wonderful wife said, who sadly passed away recently, his ex-wife, we're moving back to Toronto. And they did. But I knew before moving there, I don't know how. I mean, we just have so many mutual friends. Because I'm looking, you can't see it, but I have a copy of a great Lois DeLowe documentary called Subversives that Simon Head did. And I know that the DVDs come out of Jonathan

Gross's Distribution Factory or whatever he's got going on there. Yeah, he's put up some great things. And of course his sister, Marjorie Gross, who Sally no longer with us, she died far too young, but she was a great writer for like Seinfeld, that Fusilli Jerry episode. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, and I've known him a long, long time. So he's the buds of Jonathan Gross, he's a cool cat. All right, and any other FOTMs? Is that it for those two? Anyone else I should know about? Well, I'm definitely going to see Darren Snow. A hundred percent. Well, Darren O'Brien is the future FOTM, but you

got to lock that down, man. I'm going to count on you or I'm going to delete this episode for New York. That's a threat. That's a promise. That's a promise here. It's going to happen. All right.

It will, it will happen. I'm going to now go on record as saying it will happen. Oh my God, it's been upgraded. Yeah, it's been upgraded. I really do. I'm having such a good time. You see that I'm going to make sure that. Yeah, he'll have. Not, not, it might happen. Oh my God, it's been upgraded. Yeah, it's been upgraded. I really do. I'm having such a good time, you see,

that I'm going to make sure that it. Yeah, he'll have a good time too. There's no gotcha questions. I'm just a big fan. I want to talk to Snow. And again, I did see him, although I was kind of like, do I go say, tell, do I say hi to Snow or do I leave him be?

He's kind of, he was really chill at this movie theater and I decided to just leave the guy alone. That's, he is chill, but he's happy to talk with. Well he's going to be in this basement talking to me for 90 minutes. Yeah, we were in London last year. He got some awards, some awards over there and at our table was the legendary R&B artist, I'm blanking out on the name, who he was such a fan of, and he wouldn't introduce himself, he didn't want to go talk to me,

he was just too shy and reserved, so I, oh Shalimar, it was a group, Shalimar, so I went up to them and told them, and the guy went crazy, because he actually used to be a DJ and he used to play Snow and like he was like excited to meet Snow and so they but Snow wouldn't introduce himself he's too you know okay that's kind of a cool trait that tells me he's Canadian yeah yeah he truly is okay so that's coming so how did you start working with Snow like how did you meet Snow? It's about six, seven years ago. I had never met him ever through all the years.

And a friend, one of my best friends, Liz Ramus here in Toronto, she was living in the same building down in Toronto, right near like Wellington and Young, near the, I still call it the O'Keeffe Center. Sony Center, I think. No, I think it's not even that anymore. It's not that, it's the. Meridian. Meridian, there you go, yeah. And Jim Carrey played at the O'Keeffe Center,

opened up for Rodney Dangerfield. Oh, you've got no respect, no respect at all. But she said, you know, I met this, you know, I said, of course, I was like, well, look, you should meet him, you know, he's kind of floundering, not doing much. And she introduced us and we, I just met him, really, talked to him,

he played me some new music he'd done and I loved it. And I said, let's see what we can do. So I've been helping him do some things. Of course, he got that incredible luck of a great songs, a great song that when, you know, daddy Yankee, I mean, Drake has done in former on the June, I was, uh, uh, Justin Timberlake has done it with Jimmy Fallon on TV.

There's so many people have done it and it's been so many movies. And anyway, daddy Yankees, one of the big fans and he of course did it in Spanish now daddy Yankee could have just done it in Spanish But he's such a fan. He said I have to include Darren Snow and so it came out as concoma daddy Yankee featuring snow I remember and I guess it's about four or five years ago. You can check it's a fact I remember and I guess it's about four or five years ago. You can check it's a fact It was the most watched video on YouTube in the world like two something billion

Views is insane and then they wanted to get even a bigger appeal in English So they made a version with daddy Yankee featuring snow and Katy Perry The interesting thing is when they recorded the song At the time Darren because of his past history, was the law and his criminal record and things, his waiver had expired and he couldn't get into the States. I took care of all that, he's been to the States many times. But not I took care of it, I got the people who know how to take care of it, take care of it.

But he was such a fan, they included him and they took a film crew from Florida, came up to Toronto to film Darren so he could be in the video of that, which he is. So they never spoke on the phone or met until a few years ago Daddy Yankee was playing in Montreal, it's this big outdoor thing. And we went to Montreal and Darren met Daddy Yankee for the first time. They embraced and talked. Wow. And then he came on stage and it was beyond magical.

I mean, it was just incredible sight. Well, I gotta talk to Darren about all of this. You know, in the pre-streaming era, like let's go pre-streaming for a moment. You know, the number of Celine Dion's on this list, but the number, although she's on the list, there's a song that you'll never hear on radio anymore. You know, the R. Kelly Celine Dion song is never going to get played again, right? Like that's gone from radio. No, no. And it's so interesting. First of all, it was recorded in Montreal because he doesn't fly. I didn't know that and he wrote the song

I know I know it's crazy. He doesn't fly. He took a bus from Chicago and again, John Madden the Idea, I'm pretty sure it came from Tom Matola at Sony right for them. But again, you would think Our Kelly Celine Dion, you know, here's an interesting thing about Celine. She worked with a lot of R&B artists, black artists, producers, songwriters. I mean, you know, Michael Jackson came to her show in Vegas, Prince came, Prince wrote a song for her. They recognize talent.

But when you come to our rock and roll friends, it's like, nah, she's so unhip. She's so uncool. Well, she does rock out a good ACDC cover. But, but for the R&B artists, they only care about one thing, talent, you know? Right. And so they were thrilled to work with her. Yeah. Oh, now I lost complete track why I brought up the R. Kelly song. It was like a tangent there. But maybe I'll talk about another artist who gives, who basically, he's pretty much like, owing his like livelihood and rebirth to Celine Dion

because Dee Snider from Twisted Sister, okay? He said basically, cause he has a writing credit on a song on the Celine Dion Christmas album. And he says that that writing credit on the Celine Dion Christmas album gave them enough to live on basically. Like, so anyway, so, oh yeah. I just remember where I was going. So, uh, you know, shout out to D Snyder. Uh, he's not going to take it anymore. Uh, I was going to, uh, so I was going to, so I was talking about, oh, geez, it left me again.

There's too much in this episode here. So, oh yeah, pre-streaming. It came back to me, Paul. That's why I'm a professional. That's why I'm an award nominated thing. Pre-streaming, very rare for a Canadian to hit number one on the Billboard Hot 100. Tom Cochran did it with Life is a Highway.

Yeah. The Berenick ladies did it with One We. They went to number one. Celine Dion, multiple times, I can't remember all the times, but definitely more than just the R. Kelly duet. That's how I got stuck on the R. Kelly thing. Okay, but they aren't playing that one on the radio anymore. But anyways, that's not Celine's fault.

That's not Celine's fault. But Informer went to number one. Like, so what are this list of, you know, Neil Young only did it once. Hard to go. One time. Wow. We talked about Bob Dylan's never gone to number one

singing his own songs. He's written a song. And Bruce Springsteen's never gone to number one on his singing his own songs. His only number one song that he wrote was blinded by the light which was the man for man cover, but Yeah, dancing in the dark is his top u.s. Billboard hit and it went to number two So all this is to say what i'm telling you now is that snow is more successful than bruce springsteen That's what i'm telling you now because he got the number one and bruce didn't So it's amazing to have that number I'm telling you now, because he got the number one and Bruce didn't.

So it's amazing to have that number one hit. But you know, he is in his book of records as having the biggest selling reggae single ever. Even though of course he's white, but he's so accepted and loved in Jamaica. They embrace him in Jamaica. This that's, that's fascinating. Cause he's not the only Toronto white, white Toronto artist to have a number one Billboard hot 100 hit that is reggae.

Can you name the other one? I don't think I can. Magic had a song called rude. Oh wow. Yeah. And they're Toronto band. Oh, absolutely. And they went to number one with rude.

Okay. That's a, that's a, that's reggae. Yeah. I know. I know Adam who Okay, that's, that's, that's Regé. Yeah, I know. I know Adam who lives in LA now and he's, yeah. All right. Look at this. Look at this. Okay. So who else are you working with these days? So I guess after post Celine Dion, see I put a little accent on that. I'm working on a Celine Dion post Celine Dion, you basically are working for yourself now.

You're at Paul Farberman Entertainment. Okay. Yeah. And you want to shout out, so we mentioned we've talked about Snow here, who's gonna be in the studio, look forward to that. But anyone else you want to shout out that you're working with these days? Not really because... Top secret. There's nothing top secret at all with what I'm doing, but I, when I stopped working with Ray and Celine, I said what am I gonna do now? I need a job. I am not a millionaire. I wasn't Celine Dion's

manager. I had a well good paid job, but I got to make money. No writing credits on any rush songs. No, no, that's right. So I said, well, I'm going to be a manager. I'm going to manage some new artists. And there was a young artist, I don't want to mention his name, great kid from the Toronto area. And I was introduced to him by Fred Levy here in Toronto, accountant, business manager to the stars. Yes, it's Eugene Levy's brother. Wow.

And a wonderful man. And he suggested this kid who was looking and this kid had been discovered by Justin Bieber on YouTube and Bieber brought him down to LA for a while. He was living with him. The kid was on Ellen show and I met him. He had to come back to Canada because he was starring in a TV show here acting and playing

an artist. And I was, David Steinberg was the lawyer and we, the day we were supposed to sign the contract I woke him up and I said, I don't want to do it. I don't want to be a manager. At this point in my life, I don't have the time to invest in a new artist knowing the way the business is. It will take two or three years at best before he makes any money and therefore I make any money working as a manager on a commission basis.

And it's just so difficult. I don't want to do that. That being said I never Discouraged and on the contrary I encourage any young artists to pursue their dreams Someone's gonna success. You don't have to be a millionaire You don't have to be you know at the top of the charts but if you can pursue your craft and your love and Pay your bills and enjoy life then all the power to you and you know pursue your dreams and pay your bills and enjoy life, then all the power to you and pursue your dreams.

And I do often help out even, this isn't an advertisement for people to call me, but there are people like an incredible, incredible human being from Toronto named Story, S-T-O-R-R-Y, who I love and adore and she knows it. I just saw her perform over in England recently and I give her guidance advice. I don't charge her because she's just starting out trying to pursue her dreams and I support her and her manager and her team. And she helped her get an agent in London. She opened up this summer for Sting, some shows for Tom Jones, uh, is an incredible story for story.

And hopefully you're all going to hear more about her. I think she's just releasing a new record any day. Listen, you brought it all back to the police with the Sting shout out here. It all comes back to the police picnic here. Paul, I got to say, we, you know, we were chatting about this. I think right after your name was dropped in the Catherine McClennahan episode, we started messaging each other back and forth. And then you came up again and you came up again.

And I'm like, who the hell is this mythical figure? This Paul Farberman, he's dating Catherine McClennahan. Like, give me a break. I would retire right then and there, only smokes. But dude, it was worth the wait. We didn't half ass this on a Zoom or something. We waited to get you in the basement and you were full value, man.

What a career and what great stories. Thanks for doing this. Thanks. I really enjoyed it. So I have one piece of advice, one, one, one wish for you, one, one, no, one demand, I suppose, before I do my extra. I demand that your heart will go on.

I'll take that. Thank you. And that, and that I'm thinking Stu Stone says, do it bigger. And that brings us to the end of our 1,601st show. Whew. You could add milestone episode 1600, but I went to Gah Toronto. Gah, they, they are looking for some representation. They make music. Nobody wants to hear. It's wonderful.

I love that band. Gah. Go to torontomic.com for all your Toronto mic needs. I'm very active on blue sky. I'm at torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. I'm very active on Blue Sky. I'm at torontomike.com there. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. Palma Pasta.

Paul, don't leave without your lasagna, buddy. I'm not. I'm taking it. Recyclemyelectronics.ca. That's for your mom to go to. Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Minaris, you've got your speaker there. Yeah. And Ridley Funeral Home. Don've got your speaker there. Yeah. And Ridley funeral home.

Don't forget your measuring tape, Paul. I'll see everybody tomorrow. This is kind of neat. I got Banjo Dunk and Framlin, Banjo Dunk and Douglas Cameron. Do you remember the song Mona and the Children? I don't. Okay.

This was like in the eighties. Yeah. I saw it on much media. You missed it, but a lot of people actually missed it, but he wrote that song, but now they're in whiskey Jack together. They got new music. This will be a great chat.

See you all then. So So So So Thank you.