Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Paul "Just Like Mom" Burford: Toronto Mike'd #870

Episode Date: June 22, 2021

Mike chats with Paul Burford about creating and producing Just Like Mom, his relationship with Fergie Olver, the YouTube video, filming with the '83 Blue Jays, Wayne Gretzky, Clint Eastwood, Paul Henderson and more.

look out mom here we come the surprise is yours on just like mom so Welcome to episode 870 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta.

Create custom. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majeski, or as I call him, Mimico Mike. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is just like mom producer extraordinaire, Paul Burford.

Welcome, Paul. Thank you, Mike. What a treat to be here. Well, listen, I have not messed up that intro. Tim Hill here will vouch for that. I don't think I've ever messed up that intro. And I goofed it up. And it was because I suddenly felt this so hot. So I have to discuss my hoodie now so I can take it off.

Because it's suddenly way too hot for this hoodie. I'm literally melting over here. Are you doing okay? You're wearing the Just Like Mom sweater. Yeah, I'm wearing the Just Like Mom thing, you know. Appropriately, like appropriately I felt. I've kept it since 1981 when it was given to me.

And here we are. And finally, it's got its moment in the sunlight here because now I'm going to take a selfie with you after this episode and that just like, I'm going to make sure I capture the glory of that just like mom sweatshirt. Now, and let me show you what I have underneath the just like i'm gonna make sure i capture the glory of that just like mom sweatshirt now and let me show you what i have underneath the just like mom okay good because

if this thing doesn't come off me soon i'm gonna be a puddle here okay i've got the just like mom and dad okay and what does that top part say i was uh oh i was a contestant on just like mom and dad okay cool but that sweater that's man. That's the real deal. Holy smokes. This is the real deal. And on the back, it says producer. Yeah, yeah. I saw earlier.

And it's got Paul on the side. This is custom made for you. Custom made for me by a couple of adoring crew members. We had lots of adoring crew in that time. Do you want to shout out the crew members who made that? Do you remember? The captain who would have made it was Tony Stevens. And Tony was great.

She was an associate producer. And she works now for Spin Master. She's the head of physical production for Spin Master. Okay, wow. Yeah, that's a big deal. Yeah, yeah. Paw Patrol and all that. Paw Patrol, almost as big, that's a big deal. Yeah, yeah. Paw Patrol and all that. Paw Patrol

almost as big as just like mom. Almost. Okay, so Paul, here's what we're going to do because we have so much to cover and I need to talk about the sweater and why I'm wearing the sweater which will then allow me to take off the sweater.

But first, I just want to acknowledge you have a chaperone here, your bodyguard I'm going to assume but your your pal tim who tim is a really important fotm cog in the fotm wheel first of all i just want to say i know he's not on camera here or on mic but he's got a pair of headphones on hello to tim hello mike and tim is the guy, I think I, on a pandemic Friday, I said there was somebody who knew you, Paul, who heard Stu Stone allude to a children's entertainment duo by the name of Sunshine and Broccoli. And that's why I'm wearing, right now I'm wearing my Sunshine and Broccoli hoodie, which says it's cool to be kind. But again, I'm literally melting, so I'm going to burn through this. But Paul, of what relevance to you, what is the significance of sunshine and broccoli in your personal life? Please tell us. Well, broccoli is my son.

Whoa, I think this is a big deal. And I'm proud to have him as my son. He was a star hockey player in Thornhill. Really? And eventually he had a couple of concussions. So I thought, well, maybe I'll just borrow a guitar from a cousin of mine who's a music teacher in Scarborough. Because the music gene was in my father's side of the family. It didn't hit me at all because I tried.

It missed you. People wanted me in a group and all that, and I just couldn't get past Walk, Don't Run by The Ventures. Anyway, so I got him a guitar, and he just took like a duck to water. Within a year, he was playing over his head like Jimi Hendrix. Wow. And he's got like 300 songs in his head.

Wow. And he plays got like 300 songs in his head. Wow. And he plays 12 instruments. And I'm proud as punch. And of course, Sunshine and Broccoli is the meal ticket. But he also plays clubs. You know, he plays rock music. Right.

My old records that he grew up on. This is one talented piece of vegetable, this broccoli. Yes, yes, yes. He went to musical theater at Sheridan and came out and did some dramatic work. A couple of films and Cotton Patch Gospel and Meaford and Look Back in Anger. John Osborne's play. I thought that was an Oasis song. Okay. Okay, so now I'm going to take it off,

but I just want to make sure that... I know Broccoli's going to be listening, so Brock, who I like to call Broccoli, I'm wearing the hoodie. I really like the hoodie, but it's not good on warm summer days. This is a hoodie for cooler weather yeah so it's coming off now is what i'm telling everybody but cool to be kind is their fourth album and it

is so good you know kids love it you know and sunshine and broccoli are awfully good oh my uh i can tell you no no bs here uh although if this were not true i might say it anyways because it's good for a proud father to hear these things. But my five-year-old and my seven-year-old love the new Sunshine and Broccoli album. Love to hear that. Before I move on from the Stu Stone

thing, because Tim listens to every episode of Toronto Mic'd. Okay, that warms the cockles of my heart. He's a super fan. Well, he was at TMLX6, and I know only the super fans came out to TMLX6 because it was almost illegal.

Like, this was a pandemic park gathering. So we had, like, you know, and we were drinking in a public park too, Tim, as I recall. But Mike, you're a big number in Toronto. You know, like, you really are. Tell me more. And say it slower. I recall. But Mike, you're a big number in Toronto. You know, like you really are. Tell me more. You know. And say it slower.

No, no. That's why I say it's so cool to be here because you are, are the man now. You, you rule the airwaves, right? And I mean,

from you, that means a great deal. I mean, I would like to hear that from anybody, but from you who worked until we're going to go through some of the stuff you worked on including just like mom like that's if the producer of just like mom tells me that i'm a big number in this city i i believe it and you should you should you know and and uh like i said i'm delighted to be here in your yard that's one of the cool things is that we're in mike's yard here now. And, um,

I mean, that's the way to do it. I do a show is in the yard, you know, no social distance, no masks. Um, you know, a lot of dangerous Delta variants floating around, but you know what, are we all fully vaxxed here? I feel like we're safe. We're not, you know, hugging and kissing. My final vax is Friday. But in anticipation of that, I'm building up antibodies anyway. So, Tim, thanks for being here. I hope you're comfortable there. There are more cold beers in front, cold Great Lakes beer in front of Paul.

He's fine if you just snatch some as required. And just before I take off the sweatshirt, the Sunshine and Broccoli sweatshirt, although I see the sun's going behind a cloud, I might have a little extra time here. I just will say that Stu Stone acts confused. He confused Sunshine and Broccoli with other FOTMs, other friends of Toronto Mike, who have been on this program, Splashin' Boots. Those names are a bit similar because there's S and B and then you're S. They're similar, Sunshine and Broccoli, Splashin' Boots.

And I think if my story's correct, Splashin' Boots won a Juno Award and Stu Stone reached out to Sunshine and Broccoli to congratulate them on their Juno Award. And Stu told this story. Tim heard it. He told it sitting where you are and was concerned because he didn't get a reply back. So he said he offended them. Do you know, on the record here, because I know you speak often to Broccoli,

was there any anger towards Stu Stone that they confused them? No, no, no, no. I mean, it's all good. You know, like, the main thing is you spell the name right. Broccoli is a tough word to spell. It is. It is. And at first I wasn't happy that they were calling him Broccoli. But I got used to it.

And that's the way it is. That's showbiz. And if it works, you go with it. Now, just so you know, for Father's Day, Brock made me chicken parmesan. Nice. He cooked up chicken parmesan for me. He's become a real chef. Did you watch him cook it?

I think he went to Palma Pasta. No, no, no, no. And he packaged that up for you. He went to Metro, got all these ingredients. He made it himself. And he did a special deal because he's getting married at the end of August. Wow. And so his wife-to-be is sort of giving him food preparation lessons.

As if he doesn't have all these other talents, he's got to make food now. But it was really good. And I had to throw that in because it was a shock. Look, I'm glad you threw it in there. I will say that if you don't have time, if broccoli doesn't have time to make chicken parmesan, I can tell you that the Palma Pasta people, and I do have a frozen meat lasagna for you in the freezer.

Looking forward to it. Palma Pasta will take care of you. I love your sponsors we we love sponsors i mean just like mom was chock full of the sponsors robin hood flower robin not just robin hood but uh fix pickles and everything that we could stuff on the counter or the mothers would be drinking seven up coke or pepsi i mean and plus we sold spots within the show chucky cheese parker brothers i mean i love sponsors man and you know our prize wheel of 16 spots four of which were trips to disney world right right and we were the only show licensed outside the Disney organization to use their name.

I didn't know that. Yeah, and I invented product placement with that show. I was given sort of a carte blanche as to what I wanted to do. And so I just said, I'm doing it all. I said, you couldn't get audiences out at CFTO, even though they had shows like Stars on Ice and Circus, which is all circus animals. This is agent court?

Agent court, yeah. And I said, I'm going to get audience. I'm going to do everything right. So I'd have 250, 300 people a show. And we'd gang tape six to seven shows a day, four days in a row. It'd just be organized, that's all. And prizes. One thing Fergie and I were really set on, we're steering away from the pen and pencil sets of definition. And so we had great

prizes. Winning family would get, winning kid would get two weeks at Camp Onondaga and jewelry from Gemcraft. And then they get to spin the prize wheel with all kinds of stuff, you know, like Disney World and, you know, all kinds of neat stuff on there. Can I grab that picture? Sure, sure. Grab it. Grab it. Yeah. And that was all fergie you know the the rest of the show

was my invention but the prize wheel was all fergie he was a las vegas riverboat gambler and he loved his wheels okay so i'm going to shout out some here just uh for nostalgia purposes but i okay obviously you talked about the uh walt disney World, but camping gear from Stokely. Is that Stokely? I don't even remember Stokely. No, that'd be camping gear from someone else. S-T-O-K-E-L-Y. At least when this pic was taken.

Oh, was it? Okay. But here, let's run through some more here. A watch. Is that Chamel? Who's this? Caravelle. Caravelle. Watch.

You got Milkmate, stereo headset. Milkmate. Okay. I mean, oh, I see. The logos don't, okay. Yeah. The logos don't necessarily match the words on the outside. Okay.

I got you. Because there's bicycle. Because there's all the extra ways of making money. I got you. I got you. That's wild because the Pepsi logo, it says, yeah, it says bicycle. Yes. Okay.

No wonder I'm so confused here. I got you. But yeah, there's Bix, Quasar. That was probably the TV, right? For a small TV. Really neat small TV. Nestle. We talked about Robin Hood Flower, of course.

I remember that one. But Raleigh was the bicycle. Raleigh. Sunbeam, the popcorn maker and a mixer from sunbeam uh standard brands limited oh that's a great name that's always a very generic name but yeah wow yeah and the milk we mentioned the milk mate wow okay so i'm gonna put a picture here let me pass it over to tim but i'm gonna put a picture on picture on my Twitter feed at some point there to share the wheel. And, of course, Fergie being Fergie Oliver,

the well-known sportscaster back then. Okay, so let's do this. Okay, because as you know, Toronto Mike does his homework, and we're very organized here. But what's the origin? So whose idea was it to have a family game show just like Mom? Now, do you want me to tell you the full story or the reader's digest? Yeah, give me the full stuff.

Give me the full stuff. Okay, so I was at Dean Myers Chevrolet one day looking at cars, and I said to the sales manager, is there any reason you're not on television? And he said, no, why? And I said, well, I think you should be on television. You got a good location here just south of Yorkdale? And he said, well, why? And I said, well, I think you should be on television. You got a good location here just south of Yorkdale. And he said, well, what would it cost?

And I said, well, what I'll do is I'll go back, write up three scripts, bring them in, see if you like them, and give you a cost for them. So that's what I did. And he liked the idea. And I said, you know what would be really smart? Because your target demographic, as I see it, is males 18 to 49. And there's a sportscaster on CFTO, Fergie Oliver, does the late night sports. And I said, I'll pitch Fergie and you give him a car to drive. And so that's what I did.

I pitched Fergie. We did the commercials. You want to hear some? I know you're not wearing the headphones now, but do you want to stick on the headphones? Okay, so I'm going to play. These are the Dean Myers commercials with Fergie Oliver. Here we go.

Thanks for the work. Lace for wood? Yeah, my car broke down. Can't figure why. It's a new one. Same as yours. Oh, yeah? You buy yours at Dean Meyers? No.

Then they're not the same. At Dean Meyers, we help you drive into the future with confidence. One more. Are you driving in the right direction? Going places is a pleasure if you're confident in your car. Just south of Yorkdale on Dufferin, you'll find a car dealer who gives me confidence. His name is Dean Myers, and if you're like me, you'd rather trust a dealer who's established a reputation for quality and class. That's Dean Myers. We're located at 3180 Dufferin, just south of Yorkdale. So come on in and see us. We'll help you drive into the future with confidence.

So those are two of the three. The third has vaporized somewhere along the line. Anyway, I gave them a budget of $21,000, which was quite a bit of change back then in 1980. And so I was able to do it in film with a big crew and everything. And, you know, taking tracking shots and crane shots. There's a couple of crane shots up at Jane, north of Highway 78. You sound like Steven Spielberg here.

Cops. Oh, yeah. I was a good filmmaker, man. And so, you know, afterwards, you know, we just shook hands before he got his car. And then all of a sudden, one day, this is in, I pitched them in April. By the way, Dean Myers only had one question about the commercials, wasn't it?

He said, will they be in color? I said, yeah, they will. So then the commercials, we shot them in May. They went on the air in June. And then in late July that year, I was up at our cottage and my wife came to the door I was out in the beach with my daughter having a morning coffee enjoying her playing in the sand and my wife yells it's Fergie on the phone now what is Fergie doing phoning the cottage number I don't know how he got the number and And I'm thinking, oh, no, geez.

You know, I'm going over to the cottage, and I'm thinking, oh, something's wrong with the car. And, you know, why do I have to deal with that when I'm on a holiday? So I get to the phone, and Fergie's going, rah-rah-rah-rah-rah-rah-rah-rah-rah. And essentially to translate that he's saying uh i just pitched uh ctv on an idea for a game show they've got a time slot opening up in in october and you and i are going to own the show and

robin hood is going to underwrite the cost wow and so now you got to come back and figure everything out because you know i don't do those things. But I've seen what you do, and so I know you're the guy to do it all. So Robin Hood Flower, that's the spark, that's the catalyst. Yeah, yeah. I think he could have gotten somebody else because eventually Dominion stores underwrote the show. Right.

And shout out to Dominion because around that time you could get a Blue Jay ticket for a dollar at Dominion stores underwrote the show. Right. And shout out to Dominion, because around that time, you could get a Blue Jay ticket for a dollar at Dominion. Because I remember it was, yeah, the general admission at CNE, at the X, they were a dollar if you bought your groceries at Dominion. So shout out to Dominion. Shout out to Dominion. Anyway, so I had to come up with out to dominion anyway so uh i had to come with absolutely everything in a very short period of time uh you know uh the name of the show though

is critical titles are so important yeah so i i went through a lot of thinking and finally it hit me just like mom that's a winner That is a winner of a title. So you're the man. You are the guy who came up with the title. With the title and then the show. You got to come up with the format. You got to do the set design, line design. And what, at this time when it's, when you're starting up this, just like mom, what is Fergie

Oliver's title? Like, is he a producer? Well, he would have been the executive producer, you know, and because he made the deal, you know, and the first check he gave me was for 25 grand, which I appreciated. Wow. That's why you got that sweater there. And we made a lot of money, you know, because we were, like I said, we just went to town on everything, you know,

selling everything imaginable under the sun. And like I said said i created product placement in the show and all legitimate because we we had this bake-off segment and i thought thought rather than have generic products let's just put real stuff out there and charge people for being on the table and um sure enough it worked and the mothers, that was a bake-off. And then the mothers would do a taste test. And they'd either drink Coke or 7-Up or Pepsi. Right. And, you know, there'd be a charge for having that on the air.

We had 90 seconds in the show, within the show, that we just sold off. Right right as real estate and that's what i do now just embed it in yeah exactly exactly exactly pun intended and then the prize wheel so we were just making money hand over fist really because you know robin hood was giving us all this money and we were happily taking it but I was also getting a chance to to do some kind of pioneering work on television and I came up with the idea of a family game show as opposed to a contest game show a fun show so that we would have two rounds of questions to mothers and kids and but the ultimately the game would be decided by a taste test, which is worth 50 points, and would usually decide the outcome of the game. But that was a random thing. You do the taste test, the mothers hate

and I would go out, there would be a commercial break, two-minute commercial break before the taste test. And I would go out, I would say to the mothers very sternly, now, you're all going to promise me you're going to take big bites. If you don't, I'm going to stop the show. Right. And they're all glassy-eyed. You know, there's lights, people.

They've got to be obedient, and they were. And that's what the highlight of the show was, the mothers tasting all this awful stuff that was cooked in microwaves oh i remember i was a viewer now what i don't remember is i don't remember just like mom pre fergie so tell everybody uh who who who's the i guess firstly what calendar year are we talking about like what 1980 so 1980 is when just like mom debuts on the cfd and my And my son Brock was birthed with Just Like Mom. He was six weeks overdue. Okay.

That's wow, really? Yeah, came out 10-11. Wow. And he was born October the 7th. We went on the air something like October the 14th. Wow. So a lot of suspense built in on many different levels at that point in time. And originally, what CTV wanted, they wanted a name to host the show. Right. And back then,

there weren't many Canadian names. There are now. You know, you got names everywhere. Sure. But back then, there weren't. So I thought of this guy named Steven Young because he'd been on an NBC series called Judd for the defense. And they said, oh yeah, yeah. So immediately we got greenlit because of Steven Young and the show itself, which was mothers and kids life at home from a child's point of view, you know, good clean family stuff. from a child's point of view, you know, good, clean family stuff.

And so we got Stephen involved, and that didn't work out. But Stephen, okay, so just to make sure people realize, the day one host of Just Like Mom, it's not Fergie Oliver. Fergie Oliver is some executive producer or whatever. It is this gentleman who I don't actually know, but Stephen Young. I guess his career didn't quite work out as planned because I don't know know, but Stephen Young. I guess his career didn't quite work out as planned because I don't know this name, Stephen Young. And he had a chance to become Richard Dawson of Canada. So why didn't Stephen Young work out?

I guess that's my first question. He didn't relate well to kids. Oh, that'll do it, right? Yeah, just like mom, that's kind of important. Right, right. And he also was very high maintenance, to be honest. You know, if he hears this, well, that's too bad. That showbiz.

But he was. And, you know, it just got to be a drag because everything else was going great. Right. You know, with Fergie and I and Fergie's wife, Catherine, was just opening refrigerator doors. So I was going to ask you, Catherine Swing, of course, former Miss Canada, who was married to Fergie at the time. Yeah. She was in season one with Stephen Young. She was involved on camera?

She was just opening refrigerator doors, showing off the big prize. Like a Vanna White type deal? Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, watching over the kids while they were doing the bake-off. Okay. So, the second season, we, because we'd established ourselves, you know, it was simple just for Fergie and Catherine to be co-hosts. And they worked so well together, you know, like, because Catherine

was very bright, very quick-witted and and Fergie was very personable I love kids you know and and just always had a good time I mean being around Fergie was being around someone who just enjoyed having a good time. And so they worked great as a team together. And that's why we were... Once again, Fergie just left everything to me. You know, they would show up for the tapings, and he was happy just because all of the lights and the cameras and everything was there, the nameplates for the contestants.

And we'd have 15-minute turnarounds between each show. And the associate producer would say goodbye to one set of parents in the group and the other coming in. Sometimes we'd have people fly in from distant places to be on the show too. Okay, so when it becomes clear that Stephen Young isn't going to work out, does Fergie put up his hand as executive producer and say, I'll do it? Or do you have that idea? Where does that come from?

Fergie actually came up with that idea. Because remember, Fergie was a CTV personality at that point in time, too. Sure, sure. Well, I remember Fergie. Well, I used to watch Just Like Mom, and then, of course, Blue Jay games. How about those Blue Jays?

Because, you know, now that developed as just like mom developed uh because fergie and i would golf every morning he'd phone me at six o'clock in the morning i don't know when he slept he'd do the late sports phone me at six every morning said i'll be over in 10 minutes hang click hang up and he sure enough he was there in 10 minutes and um then he he became well he was always friendly with the blue jay management like i'd be in his office this was when we were planning just like mom and i was telling him how it was going to go and pat gillick was always phoning from distant shores uh asking fergie's opinion on the latest should i stand pat or not that was the right stand pat until the uh until things started to change dramatically

in the early 90s. And then, you know, we'd go down to Paul Beeson's office and get good tickets. Tell him to wear socks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, you probably weren't sitting in the $1 Dominion seats. No, in fact, I remember one series,

we were sitting behind Bobbyby brown who was the commissioner and it was sort of interesting because peering over his shoulder you saw he had a portable tv between his legs watching the show so he could see what the commentators were saying about what was going on on the ice you know on the On the field, yeah. So anyway, so Fergie's role as a color commentator and hearing his audition tapes grew out of the exposure he was getting on Just Like Mom. And every year the Blue Jays would do what's called a Blue Jay caravan. They go across Canada.

And Fergie said wherever he went, kids would go, Just like Mom, Just like Mom, Just like mom, just like mom, walking around. But he was a baseball guy because he originally played in the White Sox organization out in Moose Jaw, and people I know who saw him play said he was really good. Now I'm wondering, did I know that? Because I feel like if I knew that, I'd be dropping that fun fact all the time.

So he was like a White Sox farmhand in the organization. So the last time my mind was blowing like this is when I learned Randy Macho Man Savage was a pro baseball player for a while, an aspiring ball player, which I found amazing. But I did not know Fergie Oliver played pro ball. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did not know Fergie Oliver played pro ball. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, so we just have to address something now, though, because literally the moment I said we were going to do a Just Like Mom deep dive and talk Fergie Oliver, right away the former drummer of Our Lady Peace linked me to a certain YouTube video, okay? So you've probably seen this YouTube video that... Yeah, yeah. You know, the Internet is full of things that are make-believe, you know, Wizard of Oz stuff, you know, and, and for, you know, Fergie, I knew Fergie for years as well as anybody, you know, it was his pal, best pal.

Right. You golfed every morning with the man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the men yeah yeah yeah you know and and fergie was a real guy there was nothing so how about we'll do it this way because uh there's no way we can do this celebration without tackling this head-on right here and you you who know him better than anybody is the perfect man for this so what i did is i actually pulled uh it's a couple of minutes long but it's uh kate

wheeler okay yeah so she started in the kitchen on just like mom yes okay so she came over I actually pulled, it's a couple of minutes long, but it's Kate Wheeler. Oh, Kate, yeah. She started in the kitchen on Just Like Mom. Yes, okay. So she came over and just organically, Just Like Mom came up. And then we talked about this YouTube video where, I mean, literally, like the title is something like, you know, Pedo Game Show I think is the title of this damn thing, right? So let me play what Kate Wheeler told me in the basement.

She wasn't lucky enough to be out here where we are today, but let me play what Kate Wheeler told me in the basement. And then we'll talk a little more about that video and the Fergie Oliver, you know, so yeah, you might need the headphones for this one, but this is Kate. Okay,

good. Here's Kate Wheeler. You were on CFTO, which is the CTV affiliate, in 1987. Is that right? Is that when you started? Well, I actually started doing work. You're going to love this.

I started working. My mother was a producer there, and she produced shows such as Just Like Mom, Definition, Headline Hunters, Miss Canada. I was kitchen manager on Just Like Mom. I had an idea when I was watching Just Like Mom as a kid that if I were going into the show, I would just tell my mom that I was the one who put all the ketchup in there or whatever. And you don't think every kid did that?

So let me tell you. It's not my original idea. I had to take up the concoctions. I had to buy all the food. It was for sponsors' products, mainly like Robin Hood flours and stuff. And I had to take the things that It was for sponsors products, mainly like Robin Hood flours and stuff. And I had to take the things that they mixed in the bowl,

put them in three patty cups, you know, cupcake things, throw them in the microwave for two minutes and cook them. And people would always be trying to... If you look at the thing, Catherine Swing

would move along the row and say, oh, it looks like you need more of this. It looks like you need more of that. And that's what she was doing. She was balancing out. Sneaky, huh? How was she and Fergie? Because nowadays,

somebody did a clever editing job on a YouTube video that has basically destroyed the man's reputation. Yeah, it's awful. Fergie was nothing like that. Obviously, he, you know, it is. It's an edit and you called it correctly. He was

friendly. He was warm. He was loving. His young daughter was on the set all the time. No, I mean, that is not what they made out of that. I was shocked. And believe me, I would have, you know, reported it. I mean, I think when I was working there, I was like 20, early 20s. And I saw nothing like that, nothing like that.

And remember, we taped six shows on Saturday, eight shows on Sunday. There was no time. We were just half-hour shows. They were moving through. So that's Kate Wheeler when we discussed this topic here today. By the way, are you still good friends with Fergie? I don't know where he is. I mean, this is the nature of the business.

You become very close with people, then other things happen. But he would still be a pal. You know, if I saw him, it'd still be Fergie. You know what I mean? But no, no, Kate was on the money with what she said. I don't know who would take the time to do something like that stupid video was and even have access to those tapes.

That's hard to get. Does it have a game show network maybe? I'm just trying to think. They probably syndicated on... No, I think it was... Well, it was still on YTV. That'll do it though. Then,

uh, once again. So basically, and I, this is my thoughts on it as well. And I don't know Fergie at all, except it does appear to be just a, you know,

you edit things down, you slow things down, you know, that creepy sound you get when you slow down, like you can pretty much, uh, as an experiment, you could take any innocent happening and edit it in

a certain way and suddenly say, oh, this is creepy. Look at this pedo game show host. Fergie's stick was to get close to kids, to have fun with them. You know, that was his stick and he was really good at it. And so I,

you know, that thing I call it is just pure nonsense. How upset are you personally, though, that something that's so pure and good can suddenly be painted in such a light just because of one video edit that seems to be flying around? You can't worry about it because it, you know, that wasn't the truth.

I'm just concerned about the, you know, the show we had, the time we had together. Someone wants to waste their time creating something that's a piece of nonsense like that. That's, you know,

I, no, I, I don't get upset because I don't think about it. You know, I just think about Fergie as he really was. Fun-loving. Boy, he was fun-loving.

Loved to play cards with anybody around and loved to golf. I was his golfing buddy. He would talk about that on the show quite a bit too. And, you know, he just was a real fun-loving, red-blooded, very red-blooded, I might add, kind of guy. Do you have any idea approximately how old Fergie is today? Well, I don't like to say how old I am, but he's older than me by several years, maybe 10.

Okay, because if you did reveal the Fergie Oliver age, then I think there'd be a sneaky Wikipedia edit by RosieGradeTO. Because right now, Wikipedia doesn't have an age for Fergie. I would put Fergie at around 80. Okay, I thought maybe even older. Maybe, maybe. Okay. Could be, you know know because time goes by and

you know just like mom is timeless my going my relationship with him was a timeless one I just remember him as a young guy but like I said he was he's a chunk of years older than me so 80 82 83 whatever you know there's

a like a real-time comment on the Facebook stream here from Paul Hockeyard real-time comment on the facebook stream here from paul hawkyard uh oh i better shut down the facebook stream because it's gonna be making noise like that but it basically says just wondering how much influence or decision making did uh fergie have on the broadcasts outside of just like mom specifically jay's broadcast like do you have any idea how big a stick he could uh wield oh yeah, well, you know, Fergie was a real, because he was a baseball guy and knowledgeable about the game and a real fan of the Jays and knew everybody well.

He would, you know, he and Kubik were good friends. He and Buck Martinez were good friends. We'd see Buck on the golf course a lot. So Fergie, you know, knew what he was talking about, but he was also a fan. In other words, he came across as a Blue Jays fan as well as being a color commentator, you know. Sure. Well, you play the ball,

and then there's a nice Blue Jay tie-in here because just before we started recording, you showed me some pictures. And in fact, I'm going to make sure I do share this other picture too. The picture was Ernie Witt and Dave Steeb. But I think it's Ernie Witt and Rance Mullenix. Who is it that appears on an episode of Just Like Dad? we had a few just like that episodes on one of them we had the Blue Jay management we had Pat Gillick and Paul Beeston and Paul Godfrey who everybody forget brought the Blue Jays here

without Paul Godfrey we wouldn't have a Major League Baseball team we'd have the old Maple Leafs who played down at down you know they tore that stadium down yeah but I think that team was Maple Leafs who played down at Maple Leaf Stadium. They tore that stadium down, yeah. But I think that team was gone in early 70s.

I went to a lot of games, so don't make them sound too old. Well, you have to be a baseball fan because you were born on... No, yes, okay, let me get this right. You were born the day Babe Ruth died. Yes. So it was destined. I shed a tear when I was born. That's a good sign, I think. On the very day he died. Yes. So it was destined. I shed a tear when I was born. That's a good sign, I think.

On the very day he died. Wow. Okay, so Ernie, so tell me about any of the players. Yeah, so on one of the Just Like Dad shows, we had Ernie and Rance Mullenix, and I think one of the trainers was on that show. and Rance Mullenix. And I think one of the trainers was on that show.

And then we did, Fergie and I did a special down to coincide with the opening of the Epcot Center, an Easter special called Let's Play Ball, which featured Dave Steeb and Ernie Witt following my instructions going around the Epcot Center. Now, when Fergie phoned me about this, he didn't know what an Epcot Center was, and I didn't know what an Epcot Center was. But I just said, yeah, let's do it. And we went down there, and it turned out the Epcot Center was this big Disney deal,

and the Blue Jays were at spring training. So I had to go meet with Bobby Cox to see if he'd let these guys go for a few days. And Bobby was a good guy. He really was a good guy. Players really looked up to him. Well, you know, so he got us our first pennant in 85, and then he went to Atlanta the next year.

And I always feel things would have been different because we don't win another pennant until 89. The only thing was he stayed with pitchers too long. He stayed with starting pitchers too long. That was the one thing, you know, he should have. That was his Achilles heel. But apart from that, he was a really good. It was always dangerous when you put Luis Leal out for the eighth inning.

That's what I remember. Anyway, so Bobby let us have, because I wanted to have some rationale for the show to exist in the first place. So I said, let's do Steve and Witt going around the Epcot Center because they're a $20 million starting pitcher and our catcher. tape on it, you'll see Ernie Witt doesn't have his Blue Jays jacket on, where Steve does, and you know, I

always thought, well Ernie, maybe you don't like the fact that Steve's making $20 million, but you should still wear, you should still raise the flag. He was an original Blue Jay, right? He was, was he in a, he was original.

I feel like him, Jim Clancy and maybe Garth Orge or something were like, well, they were close. Were they on that? Somehow they were on the 77 team. I just remember Bob Baylor was on the 77 team. Oh yeah, for sure. Bob Baylor. I think I have him in my record book mind that he was the first J to

hit 300 in a season. He was, yeah because I remember I was in Africa shooting something there and it was really interesting getting the top, you know, the sports pages and see the top 10 players and there's Bob Baylor when you're in Kenya.

Yeah, I can't imagine that, especially back then. Now, uh, this special let's play ball. Yes. Uh, I have it here. Like the audio of this here. Do you want me to play a bit of this?

Sure. Okay. So, cause the whole thing, I think it's like 25 minutes, but let me just start this up and that's not all you got the bleachers got them from spring till fall you got a dog a drink, and an umpire's call What do you want?

Let's play ball Is that a fly ball? Shout out to Keith Hampshire, F-O-T-N, Keith Hampshire. Just to catch the game It's the last inning Our guys are winning It still slaps, though. You put down a smoker, slaps though You got no doubt

What do you want Let's play ball Oh, the whole song's here, okay Okay, okay Okay, okay Let's play ball Okay, okay Let's Play Ball is brought to you by Seal Test, the name to look for in delicious ice cream and dairy products.

Sponsor again, right? You're the man. I need you on the sales team here. So just to give you a bit of an interesting anecdote. When we started, because, you know, we're doing this for Disney as well as CTV. So I figure, oh, well, they're going to shut down things as we go. No, you don't do that. You've got to go with the flow.

When something is happening, you just have to fit in somehow. Now, the first day it rained, so you've got to still shoot. And so I grabbed Stephen Witt, and we went indoors, and I made up these chairs like they're going through the universe of energy, which is dinosaurs. And then you had to replicate the ride. So I had to make it like they were really, because in the film you see them looking at the dinosaurs,

but I had to give them the dialogue and say, here's a transverse rex, say something about this, say something about that over there. So they never did go on the ride. We just have the illusion of them going on the ride. Is there anything I can believe in in this world? No, come on. It's all smoke and piss.

Okay, so I'm just going to turn it up for another minute or so to get a feel here. ...with George Horta will give the Blue Jays two solid designated hitters. I love Cliff Johnson, by the way. I love that guy. Well, you know, if IP'd be able to put it together this year, I think I'd be able to hit 280.

You should aim higher, right? I feel like I don't think these quotes exist anymore. Yeah, if it all comes together, I'm going to hit 280. I hope I can contribute to the club. Dave Collins obtained three Yankees as a switch hitter with lots of speed and will bat second in the lineup. He can also play two or three different positions. I know that my asset is speed and the ability to hit.

They traded him, right, because they wanted Bobby Cox to play George Bell, and Gillick wanted to play Dave Collins. So Gillick said, okay, now trade him, and then now play him. He's gone. He's traded. One position the Blue Jays will have to get better productivity out of is center field. And that's Lloyd Mosby. Mosby's only 23 and has lots of talent.

But so far, he's been unable to put it all together. I expect myself to do well every year. So I think it's the kind of thing where this year I've got to go out and really give it my all. I feel I've learned a lot since I came up. I think this year I'm going to try to put it all together and probably help this club. But the key to the Blue Jays is still pitching, and they've got three of the best in the American League,

Dave Steve, Jim Clancy, and Luis Leal. And now they've added another right-hander, Mike Morgan. They put him in the big three. Let's look at the four starters and listen to catcher Ernie Witt as he describes their capabilities. Luis Leal is probably one of our... You know, Paul, I just want to listen to this for 25 minutes. This is amazing.

Here, I'll bring it down. We've got lots to cover. But that's a gem. I did not know this existed, but this is quite the time capsule. So what are we, 84? 83. 83. Okay, that makes sense.

Because that's when the Epcot Center opened. Right, right. And like I said, Bobby Cox was really cool letting us have these guys. Because we would be up until like midnight working inside the place, you know, these different exhibits and everything. I had no time to go in and do site surveys, which I would normally do. We just had to do it all on the fly. Right.

And I'd see it. There was this play in Italy and I said to Steve, get up there, get in that play. And, you know, they made fun of it. They didn't know who he was, you know. Right. Put a big nose on him and he's going to me like. I'm glad he played, no pun intended, but he played ball like that because there's different stories about Dave Steeb.

I do a show with Mark Hebbs here who never had good experiences with Dave Steeb when he was covering the team for Sportsline. Steeb seemed like a bit of a cranky pants. You gave him $50 bills?

That was Ernie Witt. That's Ernie Witt. That's Ernie Witt. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Ernie could smell a microphone a mile away too. Cause the, that was like the Fergie Oliver thing,

right? You got the 50 for doing. Yes. I remember this story. But not, no, I mean, maybe Steve was cranky,

but I didn't have that experience. He was very obedient when, when we were shooting this. Yeah. That's good to hear. That's good to hear. That's good to hear. And again, was it Bobby Cox who was so good with you that he even did the whole Mickey Mouse thing? Yeah, he did the Mickey Mouse thing.

So he cuts Mickey Mouse. Is that the deal? He cut Mickey Mouse, but Mickey didn't make the team. And so that's the last thing we see is well you know sorry you got some talent but maybe you have a better line of work somewhere else. And Paul how many years does Just Like Mom run for? We did five years, 130 originals a year which is 260 so it was on every day Monday to Friday

and then we which is 260. Wow. So it was on every day, Monday to Friday. And then we, there was a divorce thing happening between Fergie and Kathy, and that's unfortunately how it ended. And there was no future for Just Like Mom because there was, you know, so we sold the rights to the show to ctv we'd had a good run and then of course a couple years later the 500 channel the universe comes along and ytv

is licensing the show for five years every day and then the game show channel is licensing it every day for five years that's where it resides now now. And then a young kid from New Brunswick, Mark Bishop, who had watched the show growing up, comes to Toronto, goes to Ryerson, and forms a company called Marble Media. And he and his partner buy the rights to, just like Mom, the show that I created, buy my format rights. by the rights to, just like Mom, the show that I created,

by my format rights. And then they replicate the show as just like Mom and Dad, which is currently on the air on CTV. Is it CTV or is it on, like, Yes TV? It's on Yes TV, too, but it's also on CTV. It's Saturday morning, 8.30. Plus it's on BYU in the United States bring them young I think that these gentlemen

who did this reboot of Just Like Mom they're the people behind there was a kids show called This Is Daniel Cook because I got teenagers and there was a show This Is Daniel Cook that was their jam I think anyway I helped them you know i

gave them back episodes of just like mom and and all the i have a whole stockpile of photos um and i explained to them to them how we did certain things uh and they still can't do what i did and they is it paul you're a legend around here last time i saw him um and then uh and he we went brock and i went to the first taping they invited us to the first taping introduced me i wore this again wow and uh you know as a creative producer just like mom here we are folks and um uh that was neat because to see it come out again, the thing that had come into my head in a very short space of time back in 1980, to see it being born again.

Wow. You know, it's like, I guess, seeing a grandchild or something. And it was really an experience. And the first show, the first taping, the prize wheel at the end, it wouldn't stop. It must have gone around 30 times. Too much lubricant, I think, in the gears. And also one of the cameramen on that show was a cameraman from our days at CFTO doing just like mom.

So that was kind of interesting too. Did just like mom, did that take the space formerly occupied by uncle Bobby? Like, is this the same space in aging court? Do you know? I don't know. And I don't care.

We did a 41 share. We did did a 41 share which was all that mattered ratings this is a true producer right here the producer is king in television believe me right right because we had lots of directors that would come and go but i was a nice producer don't get me wrong but i well uncle bobby had day. I'm just curious about this. You know, whenever I hear about these aging court shows in the early 80s, I always remember, like, is it that Uncle Bobby vacates and now this space goes to just like mom? Where does Super Dave Osborne show up?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Because he was taping next door all the time. Bizarre. Bizarre, right. You know, and so I'd see Super Dave all the time. Very serious guy off camera. Super Dave yeah bob einstein the late greats uh wow wow now you were telling me of all kinds of people walking into this well i was gonna ask you there was some like uh this is like a hot ticket right just like you got some celebs that want a

part of it yeah because it was a big deal because there's a big studio lights big lights big set big audience you know so Howie Mandel would come in my father kicked him out of high school Howie Mandel so what's that your dad taught him no he was he was principal okay school Howie went to kicked him out and yeah I didn't say this Howie at the time but uh yeah my had, my dad was a good principal, coached the football team, winning this record in Toronto history as a football coach. Oh, I had a note about this. Yeah. Even as a principal, he coached the football team, coached swimming, coached us growing

up. That's why he had to learn swimming, hockey. So is your dad still in the books as the winningest football coach in Toronto. Toronto history. Yeah, yeah. That's unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. Quarterback at UT and did math and physics, which didn't help me any because I was no good in them.

Okay, so other celebrities that dropped by, just because I love these name drops here. Oh, yeah, Peter Ustinov. Peter Ustinov. And now, of course, for me, that was a bit of foreshadowing because I became linked in with Michael Anderson, the famous film director. Right.

And he and Peter Ustinov made their first film together called Private Angelo. Wow. And Peter went on to win three Academy Awards. And Michael won Best Picture for Around the World in 80 Days. And Michael and I, subsequent to my relationship with Fergie, Michael and I had a 30-year relationship. I was his best friend, his manager, and got him all his gigs.

I'll give you an example, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. Here's how it happens, Mike. Yeah, tell me. Okay, so I'm looking at there's a couple of trade magazines Variety and what's the other one Hollywood Reporter

thank you Tim that's why Tim's here pulling up the slack I thought he fell asleep actually I was going to nudge him, but he's still with us. Anyway, so I'm flipping through the Hollywood Reporter one day. Yes. And this is in 1996, just to put it in some kind of context.

And I see this ad, nice ad, by Hallmark Entertainment. And they had a bunch of books on a bookshelf, you know, Tom Sawyer family books tom sawyer connecticut yank and king arthur's court um the three musketeers and twenty thousand things under the sea was one of them and i thought it's a good looking ad went to sleep that night woke up and realized twenty thousand things under the sea that was written by Jules Verne the same guy that rode around the world in 80 days yes 40 years ago so we had done a film for a Hallmark Captain's Courageous which had done very well ratings wise so I phoned Dan Martin head of production I said Dan I see 20,000 things under the seas in your bookcase in the Hollywood Reporter so I assume you have

a script for it or else why would it be there? Look at you. And he said, yes, we do. And I said, Dan, I'll give you 48 hours to see if we can make a deal for Michael to do that. Wow. And sometimes you have to save 48 hours because that scares them. You know, that's a good sales technique.

Give them a deadline. Yeah. And they're like, oh, 48 hours, you know, because Michael had done a lot of big films and see films to Orca, the killer whale, he's 40 hours. Because Michael had done a lot of big films and sea films too. Orca, The Killer Whale, The Anxiety Incident. And he'd done Captain's Greatest for them, which was a sea film as well with Robert Urich. And so within 40 hours, we had a deal.

And they made a deal with CBS for $8 million. Wow. Yeah. On the show back in 1996. And this comes from you saw the book. Comes from me, yes. And I said, Dan, I will go you one better. I will throw this in. I will get you publicity that you don't get. And sure enough, I got them a full page in the New York Times. Wow. And the cover of the television supplement to the LA Times the week it was out. And that was the week of the Oscars, too.

So I don't fool around when it comes to promotion here, Mike. Wow. And that's why when I say you're the guy, that means something. No, that's why I'm going to cut that out and just put it as my new introduction or whatever uh richard dawson too right he uh yeah richard dawson was there um harvey atkin harvey atkins yeah yeah when he wasn't selling real estate wow okay i'm just just checking out this and we did mention your dad and i mean i still think that's amazing your dad is the winningest football coach in Toronto history. But tell me about like, there's a story there.

I know there's a story about your dad, who you kind of refer to as kind of like a caped crusader. Yes, yes. He's tireless in his efforts to work. But somehow, tell me about that. And how does that tie in with the great one, right? Okay, so one day, dad, unbeknownst to us, picked up Wayne Gretzky at the airport and brought him home. Just very nonchalant-like because my father at this time had retired and was the head of the Council on Drug Abuse.

And so Wayne was very interested in that because at that time, you know, because his father, too, had such a strong work ethic. Right. And so he was very interested in what my father was doing and seeing if he could help out in the development of programs that related to it. So he was kicking around the house in the yard. Yeah, just only the greatest talkie player on the planet. Yeah, just only the greatest hockey player on the planet. Yeah, but very small, very small.

And I'm always surprised when some of the great athletes are small guys, like Mike Tyson and Lyle Alzado, small guys. You know, like Wayne was a very small guy. You wouldn't, to look at him, to meet him, you wouldn't think this guy was the amazing player you saw on the ice. Yeah, he was probably like 6 feet, 170 pounds or something like that. He wasn't 6 feet.

No? No way, no, no. You know, they lie on these cards, right? He was more like 5'9". Yeah, Gretzky? Okay, well, I don't know the true hike that never met the man, but I'm pretty sure they list him on the card as 6 feet. That could be BS. Whatever they list him as, he he wasn't because i'm 511 he was shorter than me oh you know that's because i met ty domi once and he was on his card he was listed at 510

and i was looking down at ty domi and i'm like i'm a 5.9 guy and i'm looking down at this 510 guy i don't think this card is accurate yeah yeah no's, you know, that's the way the world goes. Sure, okay. I didn't realize he was that small. Sylvester Stallone, William Goldman in his book, Adventures in the Screen Trade. He was a famous screenwriter.

He wrote two, he won Oscars for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and All the President's Men. And in his book, he was always fascinated with the height of actors. Right. Because most of them are very short.

And so he stalked Stallone in a pool once was always fascinated with the height of actors right because most of them are very short and so he he he stalks stallone in a pool once and to see how uh how tall he was and he said uh 64 inches to make you do the math at 12 divide by 12 yeah so uh but you know you see him with lifts on on the oh sure all these guys like uh i know pacino short and deniro short and oh yeah they're all tiny i mean dustin hoffman's probably the tiniest of all right right right and then your exception i guess would be the guy who isn't i know clint eastwood really is a tall guy right eastwood is tallwood is tall, yes, and as you know, I met Clint. Tell me about meeting Clint. During my acting years, down in Hollywood, I went to Hollywood to

instead of going to National Theater School, where I was invited to go, I went to Hollywood instead because I knew I'd go there after National Theater School, which would have taken four years of my life. And I met Clint because I bit part in a film called Paint Your Wagon. Which has been satirized on The Simpsons. Paint Your Wagon, is that right? I don't know. Yeah, it's been parodied on The Simpsons.

And that's it. Yeah, keep going because I know the reference here. It was a big hit on broadway directed by joshua logan who was directing the uh the film and and lee marvin who was always smashed was in it um and uh and clint so i met clint and um you know he was what you see he was tall lanky laconic uh big thatch of hair. And we talked for a while, and he told me about how you got to sell your soul to the devil to get anywhere as an actor, as he had.

Should I tell that story or not? Yes, you should. Is this a family show? Yeah, you can. Is this a friend? Not a family show. Okay. Okay.

And the story is written by Sandra Locke in her book the good the bad and the ugly okay sandra of course was tim's uh you know squeeze for years tim clint clint i was gonna say that's quite it is quite the bomb he's dropping here yeah so anyway uh clint um wanted to get into the universal talent school because that's where you get Clint wanted to get into the Universal Talent School because that's where you get a chance to shine. To do that, he had to live with this guy for a few months. And by living with him, I mean living with him, not just making toast and orange juice in the morning.

Right. You know, not just making toast and orange juice in the morning. Right. And out of that, he got two lines in Revenge of the Creature, then a couple lines in Tarantula, and then Rawhide playing Rowdy Yates, and eventually Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West, which, no, A fistful of dollars,

and for which he got $25,000. And, you know, that was a good gig because that's the gig that made Clint, after he'd sold his soul to the devil, you know, the hat, the cigarillo, the silent kind of, you know, the hat, the cigarillo, the silent kind of, you know, guy, and the poncho, the jeans, the well-worn jeans, the boots with the spurs. And that played at the Oion carlton in toronto and went through the roof now no one expected this film to do anything but after it went through the

roof of the carlton it played all over the world made a fortune and that's when people discovered in la in hollywood that tor Toronto had a cosmopolitan audience. And so it became a testing ground for films. And out of that grew the Toronto Film Festival because of the cosmopolitan audience. And it all goes back to A Fistful of Dollars. Wow. Playing at the Odeon Carlton. See, this guy gets it.

Okay. I'm just looking at Tim right now, but Paul gets it. That's the crap I'm interested in. But here's a quick, I'm'm gonna just sprinkle some fun facts because you mentioned we mentioned you were born the day babe ruth died yeah babe ruth as you know hit his first professional uh home run on the island here in toronto yeah yeah i was a real babe ruth fan once after i was born i was gonna say you shed your tear. Now, you're a Tobacco guy?

Tobacco guy. Went to, you know, my plaza was Humbertown because I know you like the retro stuff. that's like Dundas in rural York.

Yeah. Yes, I know it well, Humbertown. Yeah, and I went to one of my public schools. I went to a few

because I was in this brain class where they experiment on you and do electroshock and everything. Because you had a big, big brain. Yeah, so one of my public schools, I went to a few because I was in this brain class where they experiment on you and do electroshock and everything. Because you had a big brain. Yeah, so one of them was close by here, Norseman Public School. Know it very well. In fact, the first home I ever owned was on Islington

right around Norseman. Is that right? And it was there in the schoolyard one day that I discovered horror movies. This guy had a magazine called Famous Monsters of Filmland with a picture of the creature from War of the Worlds on it. Right. I thought, well, this is interesting. So I got a subscription, and I started watching horror movies in it all the time, you know.

And we were one of the few homes in Toronto in the West End that had telemeter. And have you heard of telemeter? No, I don't think so. Well, here's a fun fact for you. Telemeter was the first pay television. It was literally, it was an experimental thing that was in several homes in Etobicoke. It was literally this box and you would put quarters in. Wow.

And you would get this movie that would come out okay and so my friends would come over and we'd watch things like it the terror from beyond space and the enemy below and then my parents would watch an american in paris and stuff like that but it was pay tv where you actually put the money in that i never heard of it that's amazing yeah telemeter it's on the internet, but it was pay TV and it was, it was crazy, you know?

And, uh, I have here that, uh, I'm interested in your, your favorite teen hangout with Pat steak on a butt steak in a butt. Absolutely, man.

I mean, a lot of people hung around there, including my, my first wife. Uh, I haven't had a second wife yet, but... There's still time. She and I met there a lot.

And Rick O'Brien, who was a good friend of mine, who eventually founded the Bamboo Club. Oh, yeah. And the O'Haras, Marcus... Mary... Maureen and Catherine. Catherine, of course. Cathy O'Haras, Marcus, Mary, Maureen, and Catherine. Catherine, of course. Cathy O'Hara. Sure.

And just a lot of guys. One of the, I'll mention this too because this is an interesting fact. One of the guys I went to school with at Richview Collegiate, we had two black guys. And they were both brothers. with at Richview Collegiate, we had two black guys and they're both brothers. So, I mean, that's when, you know, things were a little different. They are now.

Right. One of the guys was named Gary Richardson and Gary was a, I played football and Gary was a great halfback man. He was really good. You know what his destination was? Becoming Pokeroo on Polka Dot Door. I tweeted this, I tweeted today, and these are timestamps, so I'm not pulling your leg here.

I tweeted about how infuriated I was as a kid, that the guy on Polka Dot Door always just missed Pokeroo. Like, I missed him again. That was the whole thing. Every episode, he missed him again. And I also, in the same tweet, I said, I also hated that, like, everyone missed Snuffl That was the whole thing. Every episode he missed him again. And I also, in the same tweet, I said,

I also hated that. Like everyone missed snuff. Lufficus on Sesame street. Only big bird ever saw snuff. Lufficus. Like, so that was just literally today. I was thinking about poker. Roo.

And then you sit down there and say, you knew the guy. So the, so the guy, you knew the guy in the poker. Roo suit on polka dot door. Absolutely. Yeah.

Last time at a rich reunion a few years ago stop the presses that's it i have my lead now i can i know what to forget just like mom this is polka dot pokaroo revealed is the name of this episode here and you played hockey with ken dryden yes yes ken uh his father uh Murray Dryden, started the Humber Valley Hockey Association. And they lived on Anglesey right across from Humber Valley Public School. And in the backyard, they had a yard like yours, except it was all cement. and they had two hockey nets on either end because they would practice all year long right because back then ken was a goalie an okay goalie his brother dave was a real star though as a goalie what ken was that was amazing he was an incredible pitcher you know i played rep baseball Ken, and this guy was awesome. He'd have 20, 21, 22 Ks a game.

Wow. Oh, man. If you hit against him in batting practice, it was so scary because that thing, talk about Louis Thiel, that thing would just explode in on you. He was big and powerful. Everybody thought, including me, that he was going to be a pro pitcher and not a goalie

because he was only an okay goalie. He was just okay. He emerged from Cornell because the Canadians had injuries to their goalies and then ends up playing in Boston, stoning Boston, then wins Stanley Cup. He won six Stanley Cups in eight years that he played.

And that was it. That was it. But you know what? They were wonderful, good guys. In other words, they were very gentlemanly. And, you know, you appreciate that. Well, speaking of gentlemanly athletes, I want to talk to you about Paul Henderson. Oh, yeah.

There's a gentleman, right? And a hero. We have two sports legends that are Canadian from the 20th century. Paul Henderson and Northern Dancer. And I looked up to them both. Okay. Paul Henderson, still with us, thankfully.

Paul Henderson, most famous, I suppose, for his performance in the 1972 Summit Series against USSR, scored the winning. As you said, reminded me before we started, in those last, so it was a strange tournament in that it's eight games, right, like four and four. Yeah, yeah. So it's not like it's a best of seven or whatever. It's four and four, but in those final three games

which Canada wins, Paul Henderson scores the winner in all three of those. All three of those games, and that was extraordinary. And in the last game, the Russians were going to declare, if it ended in a tie, they were going to say that they won because they scored the most goals

but here Henderson scores with a minute left the country everybody went crazy I was not alive and I feel like I heard Foster Hewitt call this live I feel like oh yeah I remember when Foster Hewitt made the goal and Wilde stabbed for it and fell oh he scores, Henderson scores

for Canada. I wasn't even alive. I know. Well. What a big deal that was. It was incredible. I was at this party with 30 other people. And we were so down after the third period.

Because we were losing 5-3. And Trecek, their goalie, was astonishing. How are we going to come back? You just felt. And to know that a tie wasn't going to be sufficient, like you needed three goals. Yeah. Unbelievable. I'm glad I missed it.

I don't know if my heart would have taken it. Oh, it was really hard. But when Henderson scored, I have never been in a room that went as crazy. It just, we, it was just bedlam. You couldn't believe it. Because it felt like it was more than a hockey game, right? This was geopolitical.

There's never been a moment like in Canada. Because see the shining sea. Everybody went crazy. People fell into fishing boats in Inuit. You know, like you read Paul's book, and he talks about it. And also, he had seven 20-goal games. Seasons, yeah. Seasons, yeah. Seasons, rather.

That would be a heck of a game, 20 goals. Two of them, 30 goals or better. The season before, he had 38 goals. Because he came here in a trade with Detroit because he had played for the Detroit junior team, won the Memorial Cup with them, and was a star in junior hockey, and then came here with a trade with Detroit.

Detroit got Floyd Smith, Peter Stemkowski, and Gary Unger, and the Leafs got, and the rights to Carl Brewer, and the Leafs got Henderson, Norm Ullman, and one other guy. Can't remember right now. That's pretty good remembering those names. No, I'm impressed. But he was, and also the first player to wear a helmet.

Oh, I didn't know that. He's number one, eh? Wow. I know he's not in the Hall of Fame. I know this, but I take it you think he belongs there. Well, the reason he isn't is because of Harold Ballard. See, what happened the year after he won the Summit Series, he had a groin injury, so he didn't have a stellar year for the Leafs. Then the year after, he was summit series he had a groin injury so you know he didn't have a stellar year

for the leafs then the year after he was back in form again then the year after he met with ballard the hot stove lounge with his agent alan eaglson chancy guy anyway and ballard who was so tight with money you know he pulls a nickel out of his pocket the beaver blinks at the light legendary legendary so you know henderson looks at this and he throws the contract to ballard and ballard says get out of here you're banned from the gardens forever which was really a shame because when he was asked to be a color commentator for cbc and he would have been great ballard said no he's not setting foot in this building. Anyway, so then he goes to the Toros.

He plays several years for the Toros and the Birmingham. John Bassett moves down to Birmingham. So he never got a full, you know, tour of duty in the NHL. And that's the only reason he's not in the Hall of Fame.

And he should be because of his heroics in the 72 Summit Series. I mean, it was the greatest sports event in Canadian history, like I said. And close up there is Northern Dancer winning the Kentucky Derby. Wow. At 4-1. Why? Yeah, I guess horses are athletes, I guess. Why not?

Well, you bet they are. Okay, I know. Now, the Derby had been going on since the 1880s. Northern dancers broke the track record for the Derby at two minutes. I don't know if I knew that, but I do know when I bike in the East End there, I know at the Greenwood area or whatever, there's streets named after Northern Dancer. Yeah, and Woodbine, fittingly, there's a statue. And Northern Dancer is the most successful sire in racing history.

Is that right? The most successful. His bloodlines are incredible. Now, back to Paul Henderson real here before we wrap up. Talking Faith with Paul Henderson. Is that a Paul Burford production? Yes. Yeah, that's Paul.

I had to write all the scripts. And, you know, I worked with Paul for several months on that because it's a 12-part DVD series. And, you know, I had to find things that worked for Paul subjects that worked for him then writing it in the dialogue that would suit him and then so he would he had recipe cards in

front of him he would read from the recipe cards and I told him don't worry Paul make you look good so it was all cut so you'd never see him reading from these cards as if he's talking naturally. But he was good. Should I play a little of it?

Sure, sure. Okay, let's also a... Oh, yeah, he's a good golfer. Yeah. Yeah. It all comes down to golf with this guy. He's good golfing this point. Easy going. Here's another shot.

Right by the door. And he's done. And he's going for Canada. Welcome to Talking Faith with Paul Henderson. And now let's give a warm welcome to Paul and our host, Ms. Cheryl Josephson. Thank you and welcome to Talking Faith with Paul Henderson. My name is Cheryl Josephson and I'm going to be your host for this series. It's a 12-part series in which we hope to paint a picture of what it looks like to live a life of faith in Jesus Christ every day. We're going to tap into the learnings of

Paul Henderson and the life story of yours, Paul, and we can't do that without talking about the goal. So let's start there. Let's just get it out of the way because we know everybody wants wants you to talk about it. Let me set some context. 1972, we're in the middle of the Cold War, Canada-Russia Summit Series. Our NHL players have never before played Russia's best. And we actually thought, I think a lot of the players thought it would be a cakewalk, and it was anything but.

So we go to Moscow, we're in the final game of the series. It's all tied up. Series is tied, game is tied. We're in the last minute of the game, and an entire country is holding its breath. Pick up the story. We know how it ends, but we never get tired of hearing about it. Well, actually, I had never felt this much pressure in my life, and I did something I'd never done before.

I was on the bench. There was about a minute left in the game, and I stood up and started yelling at Peter Mohavich, the left winger, to come off the ice. Maybe because I had scored the winning goal in the two previous games, but I just had to get out on the ice. Thank goodness Peter thought the coach was yelling at him when I jumped over the boards. And history was made. Well, yeah, 10 seconds later, scored a goal

that's been called the goal of the century. And so it was just a wonderful, wonderful experience. Did you relive that goal in your head? That's unbelievable. I've heard that anecdote before, but the whole idea that he wasn't even supposed to be on the ice. Yeah, yeah, no. You know, but he's a classy guy paul and uh um it was a it was one of those experiences as a producer a director a writer that i really did enjoy because sometimes people are stars and sometimes

you don't care for them that much like Stephen Young right he could have been but Paul Henderson really was a classy guy and still is you know but it was great doing this series with him we taped 12 shows

three a night for four nights and you know it was and we taped 12 shows, three a night for four nights. And, you know, it's a good legacy series for Paul having this show. And it won platinum down at the Houston Film and Video Series, you know, which is the oldest film festival in North America. So, look, you had a good experience recording with Paul, and I just want to say I have you had a good experience recording with Paul. And I just want to say, I have just had a great experience recording with Paul Burford.

This was fantastic. Anything you want to, anything we left on the, I don't want to leave anything on the cutting room floor that is vital, but is there anything else in the Just Like Mom story or your story or anything else you want to share before we play out? Yeah, just, you talked to my dad, I'll add a couple other things. He was also the president of the Ontario Headmasters Association, and he wrote the grade 13 geometry textbook that was used in high school, which didn't help me out very much because that was my worst subject.

And all my math teachers, oh oh you've got to be good in this, I said no I'm not so not just a great football coach but also an academic leader as well, that's cool and again, say hi to your son Broccoli for me and I just love

how this all came together again so this is happening now because on an episode of Pandemic Friday, which is a subset of Toronto Mic'd, Stu Stone mentioned sunshine and broccoli. He just said, I can't even remember the context, but he mentioned sunshine and broccoli. Tim here sitting to my left, who listens to every Toronto Mic'd episode, here's the reference to sunshine and broccoli. And I'm guessing, Tim, you told Paul, and then Paul tells Broccoli. Next thing you know, Stu says,

hey, I heard from Sunshine and Broccoli, they want to do Toronto Mic'd. I reach out to Sunshine, I think, and we book it. It happens. Did you enjoy the episode of Sunshine and Broccoli on Toronto Mic'd? Oh, yeah, I did. I did. Although, to be honest, Brock had just had a fight

with his fiancee before coming on the show. Real talk. He was not at his best. And he kept using the word amazing. And I said, you sound like Donald Trump. It's harder on Zoom, though. He would have been better in person. No, no, no.

So I hope you have him back on because he'll be ripe to go and to be more of himself. Well, if he comes back on, it's got'll be he'll be ripe to to go and to be uh more of himself well if he comes back on he's got a it's got to be in the backyard not zoom and he's got to bring a guitar this time i want a guitar back here like me he likes the great outdoors and oh sorry go ahead yeah go ahead um now you asked me if there are any missing links. Probably talking about Fergie engulfing is one of those things. Because Fergie was such an enjoyable golf companion. You know, we'd do the putting green thing beforehand, and then Fergie would always say,

okay, this time we're going to stick to the rules. Which meant we hadn't. And now I hate to play with guys who are these PGA rule freak guys. this time we're going to stick to the rules, which meant we hadn't. And now I hate to play with guys who are, who are these PGA rule freak guys, you know? And he said, okay,

it's going to be rules all the way. I said, sure. And so the third and the fourth hole Fergie would say, I think I'll take another shot here. He said, feel free to take a mulligan. That was Fergie, though.

Just always a fun-loving guy. You know, like he really was a lot of fun. Do you hope you have a chance to, you know, share some more thoughts, memories with him, reach out to him, have contact with him? Yeah, yeah. I actually looked for him on the internet and couldn't figure anything out. Well, his daughter works at the shopping channel, right? She's on air at the

shopping channel. Yeah, yeah. She could probably make the magic happen. Oh, no. There are ways that I can... We can reunite. But Paul, thanks so much, buddy. It was great to talk to you. Great to talk some sunshine and broccoli. And, of course, the Just Like Mom origin story and all

that information uh i loved watching that show as a kid and i'm just glad that somebody else who was there and knew uh you know knew fergie well could just speak to the video because if we don't if you don't speak against the video people who are there then that video becomes the definitive somehow becomes the the, if you will. Yeah, which isn't. Which isn't fair, which is why you've got to, you and Kate Wheeler and everybody else is going to not be shy about it all. But thanks for doing that.

I have a StickerU Toronto Mike sticker. See, I have more gifts for you. So I mentioned the Palm of Paws and you got your beer, although Tim's drinking it all. But the Toronto Mike sticker there on the table there, that there that's from sticker you.com they're great partners of the program and actually i have some hand sanitizer there for you from ridley funeral home and it goes without saying i know you're an etobicoke guy but if you ever want to return then mimico mike is your man you go to realestatelove.ca reach out to mike majeski

and just let them know toronto mike sent. That's what you do, buddy. And that, that brings us to the end of our 870th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Paul, you're not on Twitter, right? No, I'm not. You're hiding. You're smart. Stay off Twitter. It's dangerous.

I just, there's, you know, perhaps I should be, but I'm not. Stay where you are. Trust me, you're fine. You're fine. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta.

Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. And Mimico Mike, he's not on Twitter either. He's on Instagram at Majeski group homes. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls.

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