Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Paulie Morris: Toronto Mike'd #362

Episode Date: August 1, 2018

Mike chats with longtime 97.7 HTZ FM music director and radio broadcaster Paulie Morris about the station he helped build, the greats he worked alongside, why he's no longer at the station, The Tragically Hip and The Boss.

Welcome to episode 362 of Toronto Mike's, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. Did you know that 99.9% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario? GLB. Brewed for you, Ontario. And propertyinthesix.com. Toronto real estate done right. And Paytm, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot. Download the app today from paytm.ca. And our newest sponsor, Census Design and Build. Providing architectural design, interior design, and turnkey construction services across the GTA. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com.

And joining me this week is radio broadcaster and music director, Pauly Morris. Hi, Mike. It's great to be here. And I can call you Pauly, right? Everybody calls me Pauly Morris. Hi, Mike. It's great to be here. And I can call you Pauly, right? Everybody calls me Pauly. Okay, good. Everybody calls me Pauly. All right, right off the bat,

here's your first compliment of the day. What, your episode 362. Every single time someone comes, my thought is, oh, this person is older than the picture that they use everywhere. The picture. You look younger than that photo that whatever Bell Media. The picture. You look younger than that photo that whatever Bell Media had for you.

I'm terrible in those photo sessions. I hate them, you know, and they're so contrived and all the rest, and you really don't get a chance to look yourself. And hey, maybe I've been going to the gym, taking better care of myself, eating better. You are, yeah, you're younger than your picture. I don't think I've ever seen that before

in the history of media. Well, thank you you that's a great way to start the show that might be your last compliment though so don't don't don't get used to it hey i got it right off the bat here uh here's a clip of somebody you might know in just a second hopefully this audio worked here. Hey, there is a player here. Toronto Ball, scored by number 8, Ellis. Assist number 4, Kelly, and number 26, Stenley. The time, 6.25. Toronto Ball, 6.25. There's more. I could actually listen to this all day.

Assist number 18, Tappan, and number 20, Fulcrum. actually listen to this all day. I know this is old school, man. He doesn't do the first names back then. So, like, you know, for me, if I were cutting this, it'd be like, goal scored by number 17, Wendell Clark, assisted by number 21, Borge Salming. Well, that is the public address announcer of Maple Leaf Gardens, Paul Morris, the other Paul Morris. I grew up in Maple Leaf Gardens.

My best friend from down the street, his father was a sports writer for the Globe and Mail. Oh, wow. And he was a beat reporter for Junior A Hockey and Golf and a few other things as well, too. So we always had Marley tickets. And so we would go to Marley games all the time where a lot of these great players that became Hall of Famers were playing at the time. And I would sit and look up, and I could see Paul Morris' little nest, his little roost up there. I remember, yeah.

And it was like, he was like that, who's that ghostly figure, you know what I mean? And I finally figured out who he was. But he was the same thing with everything. He always had that kind of ring. Yeah, there wasn't much range there. Yeah, it wasn't like, you know, Andy Frost could kind of get up or whatever,

but Paul Morris, but I like, I mean, it's, I think I liked it, just like I liked Marie Eldon at Exhibition Stadium. I liked the voices of my youth when I was all into it. Well, it's funny. When Andy was no longer the announcer at the ACC, somebody nudged me and said, you know, you should apply for that job just because your name's Paul Morris. No, that's great. And I always, you know, Paul Morris, and I always always wondered like a is that why you're paulie morris or b like was there ever confusion did anybody think you guys were one in the same i mean until you hear

the voices of course i think uh the paulie came from uh the sopranos paulie walnuts paulie walnuts and a lot of my friends in the music industry go, Paulie. And that's where it started. And I said, hey, I just might as well make that the signature name because nobody ever called me Paul. So, you know, there you go. It works for you, Paulie. I like it. I like it. Now, quick comment, just like a teaser comment. Sean Hammond just tweeted at me, I think it was last night, but he tweeted, 97.7 was my station from their launch until recently. Paul was a great personality and music man. Can't wait to hear this episode. So, Sean, here it goes.

We're going to dive into all of this. It's all coming up really soon. But I just need a couple of minutes to do a little house cleaning here for the good listeners. The listenership. I got to use my scruff, the listenership. Yeah, the listenership. We never call it the listenership, but scruff did. It's kind of stuck.

Well, we're going to talk more about scruff later. But housecleaning. Okay, first thing, everybody listening. Every episode of Toronto Mic has an entry on torontomic.com. So like I call it a permalink. And that's kind of like the home base for the episode if you're not a subscriber. And there's commenting on these entries.

So anybody, I encourage people to leave comments on episodes that they liked or disliked or just comments they want to make about the episode. For example, recently there was a Nina Keough episode and she was Muffy Mouse on today's special. In Nina's episode, we played a clip of a butterfly dying on today's special and Muffy Mouse is like grappling with the death of Hazel the butterfly and it was very emotional. But it's, you know, we're listening because this is a

podcast, Polly. Nobody can see us. So, somebody in the comments just this morning, I woke up and saw a comment from somebody saying, like, I want to see this footage of the butterfly dying. And you can Google the mess out of it. It's nowhere. It's not... You can't find this clip online. So I uploaded it and stuck it in the comments. So right now, if you go to the entry for the Nina Keough episode,

you can see the butterfly die. Very emotional scene. It's very tough. Polly, don't bring Kleenex if you're going to watch Hazel pass away. So that's the first thing. And secondly, I don't do house cleaning every episode, but it's been a while. I need to do some house cleaning. Like PBS

and TVO and Jazz FM, this program, Toronto Mic'd, is partly powered by you. So please, if you can, crowdfund Toronto Mic'd at patreon.com slash torontomic. I don't bang that drum often enough or loud enough, but that fits nicely in the house cleaning. Don't forget, patrons are always welcome.

Patreon.com slash torontomic. And finally, we have a date for the next Toronto Mic'd Listener Experience. So we had our first one a couple of weeks ago. The next Toronto Mic'd Listener Experience is taking place September 12 at Great Lakes Brewery from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. So get that in your calendars, September 12, 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. You too, Paulie. I want that in your calendar.

I know it's a long drive for you. A brewery? I'm there. Yes. And you know what? They're going to... Your first glass of beer is on the house at Great Lakes Beer. Oh, I'm there.

That's great. You got to go. And they have a great food truck too. But that's September 12th. There's been a lot of negotiating with Al from the Royal Pains, and it looks like they'll be back. This is the great band we had the first night. So there's live music.

Paul, you'd love it. They're a great band, and if anyone out there is responsible for any events, like, I don't know, your company, I don't know, a holiday party, or you have an event where you could use some good live music, you should reach out to Al at the Royal Pains. Go to theroyalpains.com and send Al a note and get The Royal Pains to play your event. That's what

you should do. Pauly, I mentioned the Great Lakes Brewery and you got excited, so now I'm going to make you super excited. That six-pack in front of you is yours. This is mine? It's all yours, buddy. Alright. Super happy about that. I'm a big supporter of

Ontario beers. I believe when you go to the beer store, buy local. You know, my family are brewers. My grandfather worked at Labatt's and started a brewery up in Northern, a bunch of breweries up in Northern Ontario. Actually went down to St. Catharines and all the rest.

But more importantly is that always buy in your backyard if you possibly can. It's great beer. I do tours. I love it. This is a real Well, have you been to Great Lakes Brewery? No, I'm not. So when you come on September 12, we'll give you a tour. But that's like as local as it gets.

That beer was made just a little north of here. It's actually south of Queensway. So if you can imagine you're south of Lakeshore now, but that's pretty darn close where the brewery is. There's some great breweries, some good microbreweries here in Toronto for sure. So thank you. This is great.

Enjoy. But Pauly, you're going to need a pint glass to pour that Great Lakes beer into. I thought of everything here. Now that's courtesy of Brian Gerstein who's with propertyinthesix.com. So that's yours as well. Wow.

Okay. Thank you. If I was moving to Toronto, I'd do it. I just moved to Thorold. Where's that? Thorold is in Niagara. It's just about 10 minutes from St. Catherine's

or it's right beside it. A lot of people make fun of it, thinking it's like what Scarborough is to Toronto. It's the butt end of a lot of people make fun of it, thinking it's like what Scarborough is to Toronto. Yeah, like, okay. It's the butt end of a lot of jokes, but we've moved into this beautiful place. Wait, say it again. Thorold? Thorold.

Oh, there's a D at the end of that. Yes, Thorold. Thorold. Okay, and is that at all part of my ignorance, but would you call that part of Niagara-on-the-Lake? Does that get, or is that, no. No, it's part of the Niagara region. Okay, Niagara region. lake does that get or is that no no it's part of the niagara region okay so niagara includes niagara on the lake niagara falls saint catherine's welland fortiery thorold and uh lincoln and

beamsville and all these other little places so well listen thankfully thankfully great lakes brewery is on the west end of the city so you don't have to come across the city it's still i have a thing i call the Morris Trough. I have made the journey from Niagara to Toronto so many times. I think you can see my tire tracks permanently engraved in the QEW, coming up from Niagara all the time, so it's no big deal to come up here. That's great. And Brian Gerstein, who gave you that pint glass, you're going to enjoy.

He actually has a question for you, which will lead us into a topic I want to start with. So let's hear from Brian. Hi, Paul. Brian Gerstein here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Mic'd. our brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Mike. 416-873-0292 is the number to call or text me for any of your real estate needs. Paul, I've always enjoyed listening to Siobhan's news reporting on CFRB. And since she was on with Mike, have a follow exchange with her on Twitter. Was she always curious about her whereabouts growing up and asking you a lot of questions? And were you always supportive of her career choice?

Or did you offer some other suggestions due to the unpredictability of the media industry? Well, as for her whereabouts, I'm not sure where he's leading. I think that's like the reporter in here. Let's start by letting the people know who aren't aware. Sure. Your daughter is Siobhan Morris, who is a reporter on News Talk 1010. That's right. Siobhan, you know, when she was growing up in St. Catharines,

got on the radio when she was like four years old, maybe three years old, and Kristi Knight was on the air and said, hey, Siobhan, come on here and help me do a weather report. And so she kind of recited, and Siobhan got in front of a microphone for the first time doing that. And it kind of grew from that. I assume that when you grow up with a parent that is passionate about a career choice, that kind of rubs off on them a little bit.

And I'm going to assume that is exactly what happened with Siobhan. When she jumped into radio, she was working on the programming side of things. She's working kind of what I was doing. Her passion was for music, very much like myself. And that kind of morphed into a news career. Actually, her first job was in the newsroom of CKTV down in Niagara, which was in the same building, the White House of Rock. And we worked side by side for a few years. And that's where she got the bug bitter for news. Is that when she developed her reporter voice?

She's very articulate. I call it the reporter voice, but really she's just enunciating. Her enunciation and her style is all her own. It's an authoritative style, as I like to call it. She's very careful about a lot of her presentation, especially her writing. She gets angry when she hears poor writing and the fact that stories are presented the right kind of way. So she's like that. And I don't think that comes from me at all. I'm more colloquial than she is, but that's fine. You know, I'm in the rock and roll business. But yeah, news is news.

You need to be, I understand, you need to be authoritative with news. It's a little different than like sports or music, which is, you know, entertainment and less serious. As for her career path, I've always encouraged her to keep pushing on because I spent a lot of time in Niagara and there were opportunities to move to Toronto, to the West Coast and all those types of things. And I stayed in Niagara for a lot of personal reasons. Yet I encouraged her to move on.

I said, you can stay here in Niagara, but if you really want to move on, you really should go to Toronto. And I encourage her to take up summer work at 1010, and that turned into a full-time career there as well, too. Now, Siobhan has been in that seat you're sitting in right now. She's been there twice. So she had her deep dive, which we're going to do today. And then she came back, one of the first people to kick out the jams, which you'll eventually, I should tell, eventually I'm going to make you come back for more beer and to kick out

the jams with me. So we'll get, I almost called you Pauly Walnuts. We'll get Pauly Walnuts here to come back. But did you listen to Siobhan's two episodes of Toronto Mike? Yes, I did. What did you think? Did you think, was it fair? I was actually conscious when I had,

so normally I don't think of this at all, but with her, I was conscious that pops will listen, like make sure that you're nice to her. I had to be nice to her, so I hope I was nice to her. No, she's, listen, we're very close, and nothing surprised me in the least in those type of things. I think when you get into, you know, the kick out the Jams part,

that was kind of interesting. It's a daunting task to pick only 10 songs. And I heard Dave Hodge on this show, and he came in here with a list of 100. 100 songs. Because I understand where Dave's coming from, because you can't dissolve it to 10. So I was actually as curious about that show

as I was about her telling her own story. Well, that's what I like about kicking out the jams, because you learn a lot more about somebody. I find some examples I like to toss out is like Damien Cox, where he came in for a deep dive, and it was great. But when he kicked out the jams, you see the real Damien. I just find you can learn a lot about a person by hearing what music do they love and why. It's a tough one, because I grew up in a household that was full of music. My mom was playing classical and opera records. My dad loved the Sinatra, Dean Martin, Louis Armstrong era of light swing jazz,

whatever you wanted to. And there was a piano in our dining room. And the piano had a song book with a lot of americana uh it kind of came from an era where families would stand around the piano on a when they got together and sing along and um you know and then there were my brothers and my brother's record collections there were stacks of 45s and albums all over the house and so all that kind of bled into my own personal taste. So it's a, because I mean, here's a question from your daughter.

I'm giving her credit for this question. I wanted me to ask you about the nickname Heavy Metal Moms. Heavy Metal Moms? No, no, Heavy Metal Moms. Morris, yeah, you know what? Yes, I need glasses. Heavy Metal Morris. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Heavy Metal Moms is something else. That comes from Rick Hodge when I worked with him at Chum FM. Everybody kind of had a nickname in the radio station, and he said, you are Heavy Metal Morris. And it just rolls off the tongue real easy. Good thing is I love metal. I love metal. So it was great. I didn't look the part you know I

didn't have long hair I you know it had that that greasy kind of look right I was not denim and leather but I loved it and so I was totally comfortable with that and it stuck for years and then somebody when I moved to hits FMm when i left toronto and i moved to hits fm uh that's when paulie started paulie heavy metal morris it's funny looking at it now the way morris with the two r's and the i becomes an m and you read it from back here with my vision here and it's heavy metal moms i'm like wait a minute that's a weird nickname for a for a dude but uh hey how's rick hodge i mean he's in niagara now right he's at the easy rock there you know it's it's yeah hodge is great i mean hodge has not

changed does he still own a lot of cats yeah apparently so i haven't asked him about the cats in a while um but you know hodge hodge's hodge grew up in niagara and in an area called meritan and when i worked with him at Chum FM, he used to always talk about that part of town. He's talking about buffalo chicken wings, which at the time here in Toronto was like, what's that? It's like, you know, it's like poutine. Poutine's been around for years,

but only maybe in the last 20 years has it really become something that, well, you can find on a regular basis in Toronto. But at the time, it was like Hodge was always referring to that area. He's down there. He sounds as great as he's always been. Always liked Rick Hodge. I mean, like him personally.

I did some work with him like we're going back maybe 10, 12 years ago. And he's been over here for his deep dive and always liked Rick Hodge. Likeable chap. Yeah, he's part of this, you know, he's part of a lot of the people they've had in front of this microphone who come from an era where they like to tell stories. And they're huge personalities and bad boys. And yeah, he's one of the great voices in Canadian broadcasting, for sure.

Yesterday, I had Bill King in here. Jazz, great. He was great. And I forgot to talk about Census Design and Build because I was so enthralled by Bill's stories. He told great stories. Worked with Janis Joplin. Wow. I didn't know that. Yeah.

I was like clinging to every word about his relationship with Janis and playing for her band. This, I play Pearl Jam here for Census Design and Build. Census Design and Build provide architectural design, interior design, and turnkey construction services across the GTA. To learn more about the

possibilities for your home, call them at 416-931-1422 or visit censusdesignbuild.ca today to schedule your zoning and cost project feasibility study. So if you're going to buy and or sell in the next six months, you call Brian. Brian Gerstein, real estate agent at PSR Brokerage. But if you're going to fix up your home and do something creative, something sensible, you've got to call Census Design and Build. That's the deal here polly but you just

moved yeah it's a thorough which i just learned existed and now i'm going to look for it on the map and think of you when i see it and just before we dive in here Paytm Canada this is one thing we have in common Pauly is that we have to pay bills, lots of bills my cell phone there's a bill my internet's a bill, property taxes

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What made you decide to get into radio? I wanted to... It was really stupid. There's no stupid answer. Well, sometimes. I figured it was the best way to get the entire David Bowie record collection because I knew that they had free records. That's how stupid I was at the time.

That's a better reason than some other people. No, I grew up with the radio in my house. I love the storytelling. It was actually 10-10. CFRB was huge in our house. It wasn't music radio at first. And it was your friend. It was something that was always on.

And I graduated from Western in urban planning and geography. And I said, no, that's not for me. And across town was Fanshawe College. And I had a friend who was taking broadcasting there. And I kind of went, hey, I can see myself doing that. And I went across town and took broadcasting there and became music director of the college radio station. And that's where things really took off.

So, okay, so you're doing the college station there, but what's your first, you know, real radio gig outside of college? Chum FM. Chum FM, okay. And were you, you were producing the morning show? Like, what were you doing at Chum you uh at you were producing uh the morning show like what were you doing at chum fm yeah i was producing the morning show for half the day and working in the music department for the other second half of the day so the time the the morning show was john rody craig jones and um myself and i'm missing somebody in there oh rick hodge of course rick

hodge so when okay tell me are you there at chum fm when uh ashby comes over from the uh yes i was his first producer and uh it was an interesting thing he he came across the hallway they made the change uh chum fm had switched from being a rock station to being a pop station and ashby was part of that transition and he sits in there and he says man i don't like this or no i said hey roger what's wrong he that transition, and he sits in there, and he says, man, I don't like this. Or no, I said, hey, Roger, what's wrong? He was sitting there, and he was uncomfortable. Right.

And he says, it's too cushy in here. The Chum FM control room was more like a living room compared to the austere setup for 1050 Chum where Roger had come from. Right. And I said, hey, just roll with it. And he adapted very, very quickly, and we became good friends. Are you still friendly with Roger Ashby? Yes, I am. Yeah, it's funny.

I cross the room to see Roger all the time, and I learned a lot from him, and he was always well-prepared. You know, he said to me, and God, he might get me for this, but he said, you know, I'm not a funny guy, but I know how a morning show should run, and I surround myself with really good people.

So he became a real good quarterback in a sense. I'll be honest with you, he's a lot funnier than he lets himself to be, but he knew who he was. But he surrounded himself and knew how to coordinate with his co-hosts and his guests that would walk in on the show. And he's still that guy. I hear that same guy on the radio today. So, Roger, a lot to him, yes.

So, guests, very recently, I want to say less than two weeks ago, maybe two weeks ago, John Donabee was on this show. And Donabee invited me to this radio party at Roy Thompson Hall. It was a bunch of radio vets, like some retired, some still hanging on like Roger. And I was there and I was meeting a bunch of people there. I met Bill King there, actually. And so Donabee invited me to this.

And I got to chat with Ashby a little bit at this party. But then on my show, Donabee revealed this piece of news that Ashby is hanging up his headphones at the end of the year. Apparently so. It's funny because it's public in this

Toronto mic universe. We talk about it openly. Donabee let the cat out of the bag. I knew as much, but I didn't want to like, you know, ruin the announcement or whatever. But I just, do you think this is, is this the time Roger has decided he's done? Or did somebody tap Roger on the shoulder

and say, hey, we're trying to skew a little younger and you're 70 years old or whatever? I think it's, I think this is totally his own choice you know you do this because you love it and then there comes a point in time says you know what i i've done it you know um that's the thing you know you you hope when you do this when you're in radio that you get to do everything you've always wanted to do and that you you know i always say i love to think that my career in radio is one that I love to get up in the morning and excited about what's ahead for me at work. And I think for Ashby, that was always there, that it was never a routine, that every day was fun and interesting.

And, you know, who wants to let go of that? You know, you know, I have a real problem with ageism in the sense that, you know, you're done. You've got to let somebody new in. As long as you are a great host and ratings have to be good, that's part of the business part of the thing, then you should be there. You should be on the air. Yeah, I mean, a good example of that, I think, is that Howard Stern's still going. He'll come up later in our chat. But I don't know what his age is now, but I'm guessing it's pretty close to 65, I want to say.

He's up there, definitely. And I think for him, he will quit when he's bored of it. Right. He will quit when he's bored of it. And I still think, listen, he's, don't forget, every year, every time he signs, I think he's like, has three-year contracts, there's a lot of zeros. Yeah, no doubt. That make you say, you know, I think I can put up with this for a little while. But I think, you know, you still got to get up in the morning and you still got to do the job.

And it's early hours. And in the case of Stern, it's far more complicated because he's a national figure. Well, Ashby had a, I mean, he's the last remaining Toronto radio talent who also appeared

on Toronto's radio stations in the 60s. It's an awkward way to say that he's the last man standing from the Toronto radio in the 1960s. I never really thought of it that way. But yeah, he's one of the longest. Because Donabee was the second last.

So this is all fresh in my mind from that. So Donabee was the second last 60s guy because he just stepped down. He was doing CIUT programming, which you don't actually get paid for, I found out. But okay, that's great. But he wants to go travel with his wife and stuff. So he's stepped down. But now Ashby's the last man left from the 60s. Wow.

So you were his first producer at Chum FM, which is pretty cool, pretty cool. So tell me, though, you're at Chum FM, Roger, Rick, and Marilyn's startup. Was Marilyn there right away? When did Marilyn come in? A little later, right? I left about two months before she arrived. In fact, at the time, they were auditioning co-hosts.

And the only person I was there for was a woman named Rachel Donahue. And for those of you who went to radio history or took your radio history, her husband, Tom Donahue, is the father of FM Rock Radio. He had passed away, but Rachel came up from San Francisco and did a weekend audition with Ashby and Hodge and Donahue. And, uh, well, the chemistry wasn't right. Right. And Marilyn came shortly afterwards and she just brought something that invigorated, invigorated Toronto radio. I mean, I have huge respect for her and And I mean, everybody knows her, but at the time she was coming in from Calgary, I think. Yeah, I think so. And she totally changed Chum FM for the better.

And by this time though, I was down in Niagara starting up. All right. So let's talk about that because you were music director at Hits FM from day one. Yep. Day one. So how does this come to be? How did you end up in that? Earlier, I talked about going to Fanshawe College, and they have a 3,000-watt radio station there, and I was the music director. The program director is a guy named Eric Samuels. And Eric got the gig as programmer of Hits FM. He called me up up and he said,

look, I'm starting up this new radio station in Niagara and I need a music director. Would you be interested? And he was giving me full car blanche, which is something that you would never find today. When I say that, I said, you can pick the music. I need you. And I looked at it, and at the time at Chum FM,

computers were becoming part of the scene, the programming scene, and I... I don't want to miss the syllables, so I just need you to get a little more on my mind. That's okay. I just don't want to miss a word here. So at Chum FM at the time, I felt a little... My job security was at threat

because computers were now part of the scene. Music master was becoming part of the culture. And what took two and a half of us to do could be done by one guy in a matter of days. So, and across the hallway, they were starting to lay off people at 1050 Chum. And I felt, you know, this is the time to make the move. a 1050 Chum and I felt, you know, this is the time to make the move. So, uh, and I was going with a guy that I had worked with, uh, you know, in London and we had huge success when we were in London in a ratings kind of sense. Right. So, uh, boldly, uh, boldly on, we go to Niagara to start up Hits FM and that was, uh, 1986. Man. Yeah. So 86 Hits Hits FM is born, and you're the first music director.

I mean, I've said this, but you fathered this station. You were as much a part of the DNA of Hits 97.7 as anybody on the planet. I'd like to think I got my fingerprints all over that radio station. And as I was listening to it on the way up here today, I said, yeah, I'm not sure if anybody else in this country would have ever played this stuff. You know, when we started Hits FM, you know, it was rough every, you know, it was, it was not great. It was good. Um, but like anything brand new, when you're starting from scratch, you've got a lot of things to work out. The music wasn't quite right.

The music was in maybe the lamest period of music in the mid-1980s when rock radio was Don Henley and Peter Gabriel and Bruce Hornsby. Nothing wrong with any of those things whatsoever, but it wasn't the kick-ass radio station that it became. But one thing that we really found, and this kind of came from our experience in London, is that, you know, we went there and they called it Niagara's Best Rock. And that's okay, that's fine. All the positioning statements were already picked for us before we even got there. But we realized when we got down there that, you know, tuning was dominated by Q107, Edge 102, and a couple of rock stations out of Buffalo. And most of the tuning down there was from out of market. And the only way that we were going to win was to be distinctively different from everybody else,

musically and in character. It carried from the jocks to the promotions to the music itself. We had to stand out from the rest. Otherwise, what's the point? Down in Niagara, we're up against marquee radio stations with million-dollar budgets, and we're in this old house.

And we are, you know, we're the kids. We're the kids. And how are we going to, you know, get people to listen to our radio station? So we had to be smart. We had to be louder. We had to be wilder. And, yeah, and that's how, that was kind of the foundation the backbone of what the radio

station was all about now there was a distinct can i say this a distinct niagara metalhead metalhead culture like right because what i remember hits fm is that it was definitely uh heavier like there was there was it was a it was a heavier sound than you might get on on q or definitely 102 but it was it was heavier yeah we we and might get on Q or definitely 102, but it was heavier. Yeah. And we did that. We did that intentionally. We kind of looked for where the hole was. Right. And so what's the point of us playing the same bad company records that Q107 is going to do? Because guess what? If you have your choice with those legendary voices,

those million dollar promotions that they have, they're going to listen to Q. So using that young kid kind of scenario, what are we going to listen to q so using that you know young kid kind of scenario what are we going to be well let's let's be louder you know for me it was like nobody was playing black sabbath on the radio nobody so we started playing sabbath and we started playing a lot of louder music at the time the big transition was guns and roses when appetite for destruction came in and what 1987 that was a turning point for us and the attitude that came with guns and roses and all the hair rock that followed and all the rest that kind of became that became so much part of our sound

oh listen to what you're playing now oh my goodness okay because here's the thing so i i have to admit i listened to a lot of Q107 at this time. And Top 10 of 10, for example, was Appointment Listening. Like, what's on the Top 10 of 10? Right when Guns N' Roses were breaking with their appetite for destruction. I'm pointing to the pennant here because I bought this back then. I love that album so much. I was, like, changing. That's an original.

That's awesome. That's a real deal. I got that at a head shop at, like, I don't know, Wellesley and Young or something like that. Back in, like, late 80s. Yeah, 88, I think I got it. Wow. real deal. I got that at a head shop at, like, I don't know, Wellesley and Young or something like that back in, like, late 80s. Yeah, 88, I think I got it. Wow. Real deal. But here's a jam I heard it one night on the Top 10 of 10.

One time I only heard it, and it dropped in for one night on cue, and then it disappeared. So the internet comes around, Napster and stuff, and you discover, oh, this is Come Along by Salty Dog, okay? So John Scholes was here because he had just got let go by Q, and he came over here, and we were chatting, and I was playing it. So I played it, and I just said, hey, I loved this song with one listen, but I never heard it again on Q.

And I was told in the comments that Hits977 was playing this all the time. We play this all the time. I know. I had no idea. And Q107 played it as well, too. Did they? Okay, because I... A big shout-out to Joey Vendetta

because Joey was a huge champion of this record as well, too. I mean, yeah, listen to this, you know? Oh, yeah, I'm hoping we talk about it long enough that we can get to the part that I still love. We will, we'll get to it.

I'm going to keep this going in the background. So, as music director, you'd hear something like... you're the man, right? You'd hear something like this and say, you know, that might be one of the cracks where you could kind of go. It would fit right in with the Hits FM format. Well, either way, I like to work spontaneously. Look, I'm the kid in the bedroom who doesn't have a program director, a consultant.

I have no ratings in my bedroom. And what do I play? What do I like to turn up? I like to play music that just makes me happy. That just like, yeah, you know? Yeah. And that was the joy. Balls to the wall stuff.

Right. So that was the joy programming hits. You had to be smart, of course, but trying to be different from everything else. This is the type of stuff that was so easy to play. And it happened so often. It was like, I can go on and talk about Lenny Kravitz and things like that.

It was like, some of these records just didn't have a home anywhere, and we found them, and we slapped them on the air. And I think the best of Toronto Radio and what we did at Hits FM was like that. It was spontaneous. All those years, I thought this was like an obscure song. Because no one ever talked about it and I never heard anything about it.

But apparently it was all over the place. I just didn't hear it. This is what I'm learning. And if you look for information with this band, it's really hard to find. They were on Geffen Records. They had one album. I don't know. If you try to look for who's, you know, a band, you know, a band list,

who's in the band, you can't find it. It's really hard. So at least I'm not too, it's not like, oh, I just discovered the Eagles and I found it.

Oh, the Eagles are known by other people, but hold on, Paulie, we've got to turn this up a little bit here. I'm not turning this down, Pauly, until it's done. A little Robert Plant action from this guy.

I guess we can part. Oh, baby! We gotta move! I'm gonna leave your ass behind! Yeah! Wow, that's great. If you still have an original copy of that, that's great. If you still have an original copy of that, that's gold. That's Salty Dog doing Come Along. Wow. You know, it's interesting.

You mentioned the Robert Plant thing. There's a new band that's come out in the last year. They're out of Michigan. They're called Greta Van Fleet. Yes, I've heard. And they sound a lot like Led Zeppelin. And when you get past all that, you realize what's great about it is the joy with which they've tapped in, that Zeppelin. And, you know, when you get past all that, you realize what's great about it is the joy with which they've tapped in,

that Zeppelin joy of just go. Yeah, there's a lot of sound. You can get caught up in that a little too much. And I think it's there. It's there in Salty Dog. And it's there in Greta Van Fleet, you know. But who cares? It's just fun.

Well, I'm glad. I had to play that loud and proud at the 39 minute marks. I figure if you can get through that, then you, you deserve the rest of the show. And if that, you know, if you shut it down because of that,

well, this show's not for you anyways, right? We don't want you listening to this episode. So that was like the, the acid test, if you will. Now,

okay. So we talked about the, the, the, the sound of hits FM, which you are responsible for, uh, songs like that. Uh, yeah, lots we talked about the sound of Hits FM, which you are responsible for, songs like that. Yeah. Yeah, lots of, you know, Black Sabbath, Guns N' Roses,

the harder sound, and then grunge hits. So what happens at Hits FM when grunge hits? I tell you, that was a great time. I was listening to these records, and I think the first of the so-called grunge records that we put on was Outshined by... Which makes sense, because that's sort of a heavy rock

tune, like Jesus Christ Pose and Outshined and all that stuff. So that was not a challenge, but I put on Smells Like Teen Spirit one day, and Christy Knight, this is at nighttime, and Christy Knight was in the control room, and she says, what is this piece of crap you've got me playing?

And I said, just go with it. And people did not like it because we were very much in that vein of Bon Jovi and White Lion and all that stuff that we were playing, which was relevant at the time. And then along comes this Nirvana record, and everything changed in a matter of months. All of a sudden, the transition took place. You know, it's interesting. Again, some of the people that loved 80s hard rock

had a little trouble with it, but the one thing about being at a radio station and doing your music is that you don't stand still. You have to move on if you stand still then you become a relic right away and i always my favorite radio stations and the way i believe music should be programmed is that it is always changing and you need to change with it evolve or die evolve or die the old stuff will always be there and there was always room for the classics it hits but you have to make room for what's new and what's coming on and uh so all those bands that followed alice

and chains and you know the classic grunge bands um they all fit uh they fit sonically very well now um i wonder what the the metalhead rockers i guess what i'm trying to think because they were sort of modeled, I find that, because that was my scene, man. I loved grunge when that broke. And I was listening to a lot of 102.1 at this point. And they ate up the grunge like candy, like every other song was Pearl Jam or Nirvana.

Yeah, there's a radio station that always made that transition as well, too. And, you know, geez, how many times have we read online that, you know, oh, I wish I could have the old Edge 102. And I said, well, the thing about Edge 102 is it always was morphing and changing and get out of the way if you're not part of this. When people say, I want the old CFY, I always have to stop. Do you mean that early 90s CFY or the David Marsden CFNY? Like, which CFNY are you longing for? Well, boy, you know, for me, I still admire Edge 102,

but of course, you know, I'll be a little bit more, you know, nostalgic when it gets to it. Listen, I remember when, geez, I can't remember his name. This is when I worked at Chum FM. I met the music director at CFNY at the time. It wasn't called Edge 102. And he showed me his playlist, of which most of it I did not recognize

because most of the music was coming out of the UK. And he was proud of the fact that they only played a song once a day. They advertised that, yeah. If you caught them, I think you won a prize or something if you caught them playing something twice. Right, exactly. And I was kind of, I understand that philosophy because FM radio and Edge 102 came out of an era where they didn't repeat it.

You did not get what you got on Top 40. Here's a chance to explore music. There's a lot of depth to it and all the rest. And there was this thing that said, we don't want to repeat the music. And I said, well, you've got some really great songs. Why would you not want to repeat them? When the new romantic era came in, so when Duran Duran,

the early Duran Duran records came in, and New Order, and Depeche Mode, and all those bands came in, that's when they started being smart and they started to repeat them. That was a golden era for Edge 102, when they moved from Brampton to the Tower, and all those great personalities, Alan Cross

amongst them, of course, and Humble and Fred and that whole era. I mean, that's a great era. Yeah. Mae Potts was there. Yeah. An open-ended radio. Every day was an adventure. I really believe that. That's my kind of radio where you tune in every day and you just don't know what you're going to hear, what they're going to say. Cool. Now, so the grunge sound was kind of a pixies thing going on, right? Where you had like the fast and the slow and the fast.

I mean, maybe it was the slow that was pissing off these metal heads. You just got guys that just want to party. And, you know, grunge was shoegazing, to use an old cliche. You know, grunge was shoegazing as to use an old cliche you know grunge was depressing and miserable and guns and roses and bon jovi were fun let's party and the two kind of rubbed each other a little bit in the middle of all that i just heard the connection which was there were classic connections there a blues rock connection was in amongst all that stuff if you didn't hear it then you kind of missed it you know uh you know kirk cobain was emulating pop music but just with

a jagged edge yeah well you know that smells like teen spirit if you listen closely there's a lot of more than a feeling by boston going on in there but you make you were smart the gateway drug if you will from the the hard rock sound to get into grunge is anything on bad motor finger. That's the bridge. That is the bridge. And then later on, Alice in Chains. Oh, yeah. Plotting heavy.

Who were plotting and heavy as well, too. And grunge, yeah, maybe they're more traditional hard rock than they were grunge. But because they came out of Seattle, they got lumped in. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. Now, was there like revolts? Like the listenership, any revolts because you were playing too much of that damn Grunge

and they still wanted Poison? When you play something new on radio, there is always pushback on certain things. Sure. Ratings didn't fall. So if that is the yardstick then there you go sometimes you just have to boldly go right you have to use your instinct when you're programming a radio station when it comes to music you have to go with your gut and go with what's right as i said with hits my thing is that we continue to move forward you need to play the latest best new music

play the best though. You know, don't get caught up in playing all the small stuff. That's for somebody else. Smart because I mean, you can, you can,

uh, bill yourself as Niagara's best rock or whatever but like a lot of us in the, especially in the western end of the city, we were pulling it in

in our cars listening to 97.7. But we became Southern Ontario's best rock. And you can't be, you don't want to become like when you go to

cottage country or something, you go up to, I don't know, you go up to Huntsville or Peterborough, you go best rock and you can't be you don't want to become like when you go to cottage country or something you go up to i don't know you go up to huntsville or peterborough you go somewhere smaller and you pull in their local rock station and they're it sounds like they're still playing back in black it's kind of like it's still hey hit still plays back in black but they also play grunewand fleet right you know you're you're absolutely right I love that mix of old and new and fresh. Absolutely. And then, of course, with just a little, you know, I always, I like music with guts. And, you know, a slow song can have guts.

It's got heart, it's got, you know what I mean? It's got emotion in it and all the rest. It doesn't have to be turned to 11 to be rock and roll. Like Ozzy and some of those like Mom, Mom, Coming Home or whatever and No More Tears or whatever.

These are slow, sweet songs, but they're still Ozzy. But it's Ozzy. It's Ozzy. It's funny because Ozzy is all about Prince of Darkness and all that kind of stuff, and yet here are these songs that are more traditional. As you get to know him, he says,

oh yeah, I'm the world's biggest John Lennon fan, Beatles fan, and all the rest. So that's where a lot of that stuff came from. So you're happy at Hits FM. Well, you tell me, how happy can you be when you end up on Y95? What happens with the move from Hits to 95? I got to a point that I felt I was spinning my wheels,

and I felt like, what else can I do here? And I didn't get promoted to, I wanted the program director job, but I didn't get it. And so what else can I do? So I wanted to go to Q107. That was the epitome of rock stations that I wanted to go to and they were owned by the same company. Y95 and Q were owned by the same company, so I saw it as a stepping stone to go to Q. So I figured I'll

start there, and then, you know, hopefully within a year or two, I can find myself in Toronto and be in that big seat. And I remember on, I remember getting a phone call from Alan Reed, who's, And I remember getting a phone call from Alan Reed, who's... What's Alan, the head of Keras right now? Anyways, Alan Reed was the president of national promotion for A&M Records. And he says, you're out of your damn mind going to that place. And I said, what do you mean? And I explained why I was doing it. He says, no, they're going to waste your talent.

He says, no, he says, it's, they're going to waste your talent. Your talent is so much about the dynamic programming it hits and picking new music. Now, I felt he was being selfish here because, you know, it's always great to have a music director who is, you know, excited about new music. And I was one of those guys, you know, and maybe he felt they were losing, you know, excited about new music. And I was one of those guys, you know, and maybe he felt they were losing, you know, one of their advocates. I don't know, but I made it clear. I said, this is a career choice and going to Y95, which was the biggest and the first classic rock radio station in the country was a part of a path of my own to get to Toronto. And when I got there, everything that he said was true. I died on the vine when I was there.

Wow. I love the music, love the people, the company treated me well, but there was nothing there. When you're playing old music, listen, I love classic rock. I love classic rock and had a great time, thrived there for a couple of years, but it got boring real fast, you know. Is this the era? Is it mid-90s?

Yeah. Was Mike Richards there at this time? Yeah. Mike was fantastic. Oh, I like the people. I said the people there were fantastic. Mike Richards. Oh, my God.

He's a funny guy. Again, spontaneous. Jeff Lumby was doing the morning show. Well, Lumby's been on it. He's a funny guy. Again, spontaneous. Jeff Lumby was doing the morning show. Well, Lumby's been on it. He's a friend too. Jeff's great. You know, like these are really, again, really great talents.

I was really leaving something special behind, but you got to move on. I'm like that, you know? And went to Y95 and was there for like four years before they fired me. Not that I'd done anything wrong but i i would sometimes take a look at my paycheck and i say they're paying me a lot of money for doing a classic rock radio station and you know i had my i had my problems there i i remember that

you know here i was a new music guy and at the time i think the turning point was there was a this new song by the tragically hip was out called uh butts wiggling right and it showed up on this um this soundtrack to uh uh just flute my head here but anyways here was this track and it was only available in the u.s it was an independent thing so i got on the phone like I would be if I was sitting at my desk at Hits FM and started making some calls and connections. And I got it, but I made a point, sent it to Q107 because I know the music director doesn't care or doesn't know about it. And so I got Q to play it and then we played it, and then my program director walks in and said, why did you waste all that time? Huh.

And I did it because, one, I'm looking out for, I'm looking out, you know what I mean? Yeah. Tragically, hip fans care. Sure. Radio fans care. It's important that our company has that record. Make the effort.

I would do this all the time, and it felt like it was totally lost at this radio station, and part of that is part of my own like it was totally lost at this radio station. And part of that is, you know, part of my own arrogance. This is a classic rock radio station. What do we care about the Tragically Hip? And he asked me that question. I said, it's because they're one of the country's most important rock bands right now. Even though we play classic rock, we do play Tragically Hip music. It's worth it. And after that, I just, you know, I just spun my wheels when I was there.

You were, that deflates you, right? That takes all the wind out of your sails. It did deflate me. Great radio station, great people, great company. Just didn't have what I needed to be happy. There's a CBC documentary series called Someone Knows Something. And season two, it's about a woman who disappeared in Hamilton.

I hope it's Hamilton. I think it's Hamilton. Hamilton. Anyway, in a strange way, Mike Richards is in this doc, not for anything, no wrong reasons, but he was hosting a New Year's Eve special, Y95 thing on, I think, CHCH or something. That's right.

And there was a live engagement. And that engagement was between the primary suspect in this woman's disappearance and the woman who disappeared. So this was, yeah, like, so in a strange way, the Y95 with Mike Richards played an interesting part in this documentary series by CBC. Anyway, at some point, they actually go in and interview Mike at his home about it. But he's still friendly with Mike?

No, I haven't seen Mike since I left there. I mean, when he went over to, what is it, 10th and 5th Channel Sports Radio? He's long gone from there. But he's got his own thing going now. Essentially, I guess it's a podcast. It's called Mike Richards Raw that he records. Yeah, I just wondered if that, because he's been on here a couple of times and he's a, I call,

well, he calls himself Good Time Charlie. That's what he calls himself. And by this point in the episode, which we recorded much earlier, he'd already downed a couple of Great Lakes beers. He's a fantastic guest though and a very fun guy. Very funny and spontaneous guy. I remember the first time I heard him, he was just doing call-ins, doing, though, and a very fun guy. Very funny and spontaneous guy.

I remember the first time I hear him, he was just doing call-ins, doing character voices. And I think that was when I was at Chum FM. You know, he was one of those guys. So, yeah, he's a gem. In fact, I want to talk about some... So, okay, you end up back. Let's get you back to Hits FM, and then we're going to talk about some Hits FM personalities you worked with. But how do you end up back at 97.7?

I got a phone call. Karen Steele, who was the program director at the time, said, hey, how would you like to come back? And a few people in the building, like Christy Knight, had nudged her, suggesting I come back and co-host the 6 o'clock music news program. Remember back in the days, I guess it's the first time I've used that, Q107, Edge 102, and Hits FM all had a music magazine on it. Foreground programming. Foreground programming, right.

But we hung on to it because it was such a joy to do it. And they asked me to come back and do that, and that part-time work turned into full-time. I found myself back in the chair that I had given up five years earlier or six years earlier. No, very good. So you're back. So a lot of people think you were there all that time, but there was this Y95 blip in there. But I noticed this with a lot of radio vets and stuff.

Andy Frost was just let go by Q. And Andy had been there since, I don't know, mid lot of, I know this is with a lot of radio vets and stuff like Andy Frost just was just let go by Q. And Andy had been there since, I don't know, mid 80s or something. And people, the average listener thinks Andy was there like from the mid 80s till he would, till now. This is what they think, right? But of course, there's the same thing with Al Joines, actually, same thing where they think he's there. Al Joines was on The Rock, which is a station i always compare to hits fm by the way uh but uh for the east enders i guess but uh we're west end here but uh yeah but but andy frost did leave and you did leave as well went to y95 but then you came back to 97.7 so can

i uh well before i pepper you with these personalities from 97.7 and uh just one more reminder that because you get very comfy because you love the subject matter and then you move off mic, but you can feel free to move this thing. Okay. Those expensive swing. See that? That's the Pauly. That's what I want to hear. Nice.

Perfect. So before we dive into these personalities, when Howard Stern came with Syndicated on Q107 how did that affect things at HITS 97.7? It definitely affected, we didn't react to it, it's kind of like what are you going to do like how are you going to react to this there's nothing you can do we all knew about Stern

and the way he had kind of rampaged his way through the United States and the way other traditional rock stations were doing it. Some decided, Hey, let's create a morning zoo. We already had that with Scruff. You know,

we already were well underway. You're already zany and madcap. Already, already had our own type of brand and that type of thing. So we didn't have to do anything. And because he was, but we lost, we definitely lost listeners.

We definitely be, how could you? Because you had a voyeur on the radio. Well, Humble and Fred say the same thing. So they're in a similar position, right? Because suddenly Humble and Fred, a bunch of young males are suddenly trying out this Howard Stern behemoth. Well, you had to. I mean, here is a guy who is having prostitutes on the air

and talking in a way that nobody had ever heard it before. You had to take a look it before. You had to take a look at it. You had to spend some time with it. It didn't last in Toronto that long, but it did stay in Buffalo for a while, a lot longer. Yeah, WBUF. And so we had to deal with that, but we never changed. What are you going to do? We're not going to dumb down the radio station. We're not going to try to pull the same stunts as this guy. We are just going to be true to what we do, what our listeners expect of us. And realize with an aggressive competitor in the morning that you might lose some people. But, you know, you find

people love what you do and will stay with you, you know. And those that don't, then they're going to go down the dial and they're going to find it. Right. I was actually one of the listeners of Howard Stern who didn't listen on Q, but listened on WBUF because the Q censorship button presser person, and I can't remember her name, but somebody came on and knew her and whatever. Adam Groh, somebody knew her, but had to carve out a lot more. Yeah.

The way it happened is that Stern would send his show down down the pipe and they would pre-record the show in toronto an hour at a time and then you would have to go in there and edit it uh so that it met the broadcasting standards here in canada and that's everything from swearing to certain content you know i remember the big subject matter that was different from u.s rules and our rules was like language stuff with french and stuff like that like yeah like you know you could they didn't care on in buffalo but but here it was serious crtc uh rules i guess against that right yeah french language stuff so yeah there were some issues there but as its effect on us it hits now we just just it's there. It's, it's like

everything else, you know, edge 102, Q107 and the Buffalo radio stations are always going to be a thorn in our side, but we decided to be, you know, stay the course, be distinctively different and just do with it. And, you know, realizing that short-term we're going to lose some listeners, but long-term, uh, still create, term, still create a radio station that people will dedicate themselves to. And that was really, really important. You know, I always thought HITS was just more than a good jukebox. It has to be something greater than that. Well, let's talk about some of the personalities through the years at HITS.

Let's start with, you mentioned her a few times, but Krist uh, Kristi Knight, uh, KK, like what, what can you share with us about, uh, working with her? Well, let me start by saying what, I think the big transition took place is that our, our radio station was owned by Standard Communications and eventually the Slates came over and took over the radio station. And Gary became a real proponent, uh, a moving proponent of the radio station. He loved this little rock station, but he knew it needed something, and the first change was bringing Scruff Connors down. Scruff has kind of done his time at QN07.

Well, let's talk—okay, let's lead with Scruff then. Which leads me to Christy, because Scruff and Christy are kind of a part and parcel of the whole kind of deal. kind of a part and parcel of the whole kind of deal. And so Gary brought Scruff down and installed Scruff, and Christy was not long after that. And that kind of gave us that edge that went along with the music that was evolving at the time, you know what I mean? That's where the crazy came in. And they were integral.

In fact, they were pivotal in making the radio station more than just a good-sounding radio station, but a crazy-ass radio station that was distinctively different from all the rest. So we adopted all the notoriety that Scruff had. He was well-known by the Niagara listeners. We got some Toronto listeners to come along with it, and Scruff got to play all his tricks all over again

and create some new ones. We're going to the future episode of Toronto Mic'd. And I'm trying to think of what day it is. But it's not long from now. I think a week or two from now, TJ Connors is coming over. Oh, great. And I warned TJ. We're going to talk about TJ.

But I need lots of Scruff stories. I mean, I've heard some Scruff stories. I heard stories about, like, I'll save this for the TJ one, but just scams and just complete mischief that he would get up to. It's just incredible. A lot of scams. Let me see if I can recite a couple here. Yeah, please.

The listenership depends on this. Scruff opens up the newspaper, and he sees that the New Kids in the Block are playing in Ottawa, and they're coming to Toronto. And so Scruff says, good listenership. The New Kids are going to be here at Hits FM on Thursday. And Eric Samuels, the programmer, comes comes in, what the hell are you doing? And he'd pounded this all morning, new kids are going to be here, new kids are going to be here on Thursday. So they conspired and they had a plan.

So on Thursday, come to the radio station, and they were going to be at the station at eight o'clock in the morning, and there's probably a hundred girls and their mothers there this is when that whole boy band thing was huge i remember hanging tough yeah and they are there they've got placards and there's just it's just it's it's jordan uh yeah right there's a mania in front of our radio station as they're waiting for the arrival of the new kids. Up pulls up two limousines. Out of the limousines step these guys in the three-quarter length jackets, the drivers and all the rest, white gloves. They go around, they open up the doors, and out of the limousine steps five mothers with their new kids. And there's dead silence and they parted ways and these people moved into the station scruff did this silly interview with them that wasn't about it it was

a gag that he had pulled on everybody but these moms didn't do any homework at all right that's like like listen to what listen there's no way the new kids on the block were coming to hits exactly so do but see world travel hey they were coming to Hits FM. Exactly. But see, world travel. Hey, they're coming to the radio station and might as well show up. And so they did. And then it got ugly. Then they started pounding the door. They were going to sue us.

They're going to hit the CRTC. And we were laughing the whole time. And that was it, you know. Scruff said there was going to be a, since we're down in Niagara and there's a harbor down there, said, listen, there's going to be the good ship Mayflower is going out for a Thanksgiving Day feast. And you're all invited. It's going to set sail twice on Friday morning before the Thanksgiving Day holiday weekend. There was going to be a sail, there was going to be a sale.

We were going to have a serving and a sailing at seven o'clock and at nine o'clock. And when listeners showed up to the radio station to apparently get on the bus to take them to the harbor to get on the boat, it was actually a full 18-wheeler Mayflower moving truck. On the other hand, what was great about it is Scruff had hired a caterer, and they had a table going down the middle of this moving truck with white linen tablecloth, candelabras, silverware, and a kick-ass Thanksgiving meal.

So you actually sat in the back of this moving van in front of the radio station. Okay, well, good, because you don't want to piss off the listenership too much. There's a fine line here. You don't want to make your listeners so pissed off. They're like, F you, I'm going to Q. You don't want that. Well, when TJ

is in here, he will talk about some of the things that Scruff pulled off in other markets that got him into a lot of trouble with listeners, where the payoff wasn't, the joke wasn't the joke wasn't they didn't like the joke in this case the joke was always a great one and there's just so many of these these these things that he did how many super bowls did he get into yeah that's right you know saying oh i'm dying and all this and he would get tickets and flights to super bowl games

oh i mean i heard something with the remember the listeria issue with maple leaf remember maple leaf uh meats had that listeria outbreak and then he he his neighbor and i can share a little bit and i was like an off the record striver but scrub's dead he can't be upset at this but uh his neighbor had one of those like uh packages of maple leaf hot dogs or whatever with the right serial number so scruff give me that i had an idea of whatever and scruff like played uh like played really sick like pretended he was really sick from the listeria and apparently like a news crew interviewed him from his like uh his couch or his bed or something like like just to get like some settlement money or whatever he was good at impersonating and stuff like this he would he was

calling tammy faye baker when that whole Jim Baker prayer TV thing was going on. Jim Baker was being implicated for scamming money. There's Tammy Faye. Remember her with her makeup? Of course. The lots of eye makeup that would run when she cried. Getting an interview with Tammy

Faye was a pretty hard thing, but he would always represent himself as a scruff from a Kermit affair. Not a current affair, but a Kermit affair hard thing, but he would always represent himself as Scruff from A Kermit Affair. Not A Current Affair, but A Kermit Affair. And sure enough, he would get her on the air and she would cry and she would turn on the whole thing and all the rest of it. What I loved working about

Scruff is that he was both fearless and reckless. And you don't get a lot of that these days. There's very little of that in reading. There's very little of that. There's little risk anymore. Like I guess someone, these big,

because when you're owned by a big cable company or conglomerate media company, there's the risk reward scenario changes like where any risk is not worth it because it's just changed the game no more. The thing about Scruff is it wasn't contrived. He was crazy. Yeah.

He was nuts. But he knew how to play. He knew how to play. He's the sweetest guy in the world. Loved listeners. He was genuine. Yet when I got to this thing, it's like every day you never knew it was going to happen. It was crazy.

And he got us into a lot of trouble. knew it was going to happen. It was crazy. And he got us into a lot of trouble. Like the time he wanted to, he opened up the newspaper and he found that there's this town in Pennsylvania that had run out of money at City Hall in that their last police car was no longer working. They were using the garbage truck to patrol the town. So they say, good listenership, let's get our money together. Let's get this town a new cop car. That got us into some trouble because in any number of different levels. But he would do this kind of stuff.

And it's just, yeah, scruff. Scruff. Miss him. It's going to be a big scruff episode coming up. And when Christie was let go, that was a surprise to a lot of longtime long-time hits fm because uh and this predates similar thing what happened to you uh but but this before uh we'll get to what happened to you but uh i would on torontomic.com i would get the comments from people who are like

like you're cutting out the heart and soul of the uh of the operation like that was a big uh bellwether uh moment for the station i would think i don't know what happened there because they never tell you i just it was at the beginning of what we've been seeing in broadcasting for the last seven years which is ad revenues are down operating costs are up you take a look at your staff and you start making changes. And sometimes it's not who you are, but how much you cost. You know, I, and we'll get to this point with, you know, with me shortly or sometime down the road here, but I always said to my wife, I said, you know, they can have somebody do what I do for less.

And she said, but not nearly as well. And I said, I'm not sure if that matters anymore. Right, because at some point you're a number on a ledger as opposed to the... I was always aware of that. So the only way I could work is to say, I'm going to go into work and I'm going to give everything that I can to make it great. Be proud of what you do, do great work and always create something different. And, uh, and in the case of Christy, I think that was it. I don't think it was about her air work at all. In fact, I think personally, I thought it was a huge mistake

because her ratings were great. She was doing great radio. Um, and she didn't deserve to be let go, but it was just something that happened. I didn't deserve to be let go. But it was just something that happened. I don't even, again, they don't tell you. You just find out that they no longer work here. And now these days, this continues to happen probably twice a year. And you just shrug your shoulders, and you just accept it. Yeah, I think we call it the Bell Media cuts.

And it's like, yeah, these seem to be semi-annual events. To be honest with you, it's every company. No, you're right, of course. Every company does it. Rogers does it. Chorus does it. You're right. Every media company that owns these properties have to find ways to save money.

And sometimes it's personalities. It does create, and I guess we'll get into this with you, but it does create a very interesting scenario where your proven work and effectiveness combined with your experience commands a larger salary, which is essentially a target that you wear on your back. It's almost like you, as talent, you want to suppress your compensation in order to remove the target from your back? Like, it's a very backwards thing. I wish I had that option. I wish, you know, but you're never given that option. That's anywhere you work. You're going to say,

hey, will you take, you know, actually it's happened. Will you take less to continue to work here? That was not a... And you know what? You know what? That requires what happened at CHCH where you have to like go bankrupt

and create a new company out of the ashes. And that new company can hire back the old people at whatever half the cost. Now, to be fair, sometimes it's just time for a change. It's just like, we respect what you've done. It's great work and all the rest, but now we'd like to try it a little bit different. I get that. I totally get that. You know, it could be in my case.

I'm not sure. Because you're never told the reasons. What you're told is we're making some changes or... You're restructured out or something. Some of these very convenient, you know, HR words that they use. At the end of the day, you walk out the door and you feel like you got kicked in the guts. Yeah, okay, hold on to that feeling. Not that I want you to feel that again,

but we're going to talk about that because that's going to come up here. But I'm going to just drop a few more names. One name I loved listening to who died too young, Iron Mike. Iron Mike Benson, wow. Yeah, Iron Mike was kind of know when scruff had gone he kind of came in at a time and he brought that same sort of not as reckless but uh would say and apologize later and uh is a sweetheart of a guy a a huge personality. And where Scruff was shy with his listeners,

Iron Mike wasn't. He spent a lot of time shaking hands and spending time with people. He's just such a likable, lovable guy. But more importantly, just here is this guy that everybody could identify with. That was the thing about him. It's just, I like Iron Mike because I see myself in him. And it was the way he talked. It was the stuff that he did. It's just, I like Iron Mike because I see myself in him. And it was the way he talked. It was the stuff that he did. It's the music that he championed. It was the independent bands that he championed. And he was just one of those larger-than-life personalities,

both on the air and off the air. He was an American. He's from the States. So he kind of brought a little bit of that swagger on the air that you didn't get from most guys. Guys like me, I have no swagger on the air that you didn't get from most guys you know guys like me we i i have no swagger listen listen to this i have no swagger but iron mike man he was he was he was great unfortunately passed away of cancer you know yeah oh too sad and okay so ben and carrie

so i'm in hits fm and i'm i'm trying to remember we're ben and carrie together at hits fm or was Ben and Carrie. In Hits FM. And I'm trying to remember, were Ben and Carrie together at Hits FM or was it Ben McVie? Tell me how that broke down at Hits. So Carrie Grave came in as the new program director and Carrie was definitely crazy in a very lovable way.

Carrie was about tearing down all the cliches about radio. He wanted to revolutionize the radio. He wanted it to be reflection of its listeners. So he said, here's your new playbook. And what do guys carry about? They care about getting high. They care about women. So your playbooks are high times and maxim magazine and get rid of the way you talk talk like real people you know radio people tend to sound like they're aliens they're like from another planet this is something i really kind of checked myself you know hey nobody ever talks like this hey coming up whoever you know i think it was wolfman jack's fault that everybody would oh yeah you know you had ever talks like this hey coming up whoever you know i think it was wolfman jack's fault that everybody would oh yeah you know you had to put on a shtick i think back

in the day but those they created yeah he created a character but most of us 99 of the radio djs very often sound like idiots and uh carrie wanted to get rid of all those type of things and he and ben who was doing evenings at the time, eventually doing the mornings, became very close and fast friends. And they didn't do a radio show together until they went to Dave FM. Or maybe it's when they went to Toronto.

Jack FM. Because the ad had them coming out of an egg. Like they were being hatched from an egg. And that ad is still stuck in my head. And I'm like, what is it? Yeah, it was the GN92.5 Jack FM, Ben and Carrie. Now, of course, so Carrie passed away too young as well. Carrie's been gone a few years now.

Same cancer that Gore Downey had. In fact, he and Gore became friends. And I remember Carrie, you know, he was being treated in Minnesota at a clinic that was there. And he made the trip up to Winnipeg during that last tour. And he and Gord spent some time backstage. And I was kind of jealous. I never got a chance to share that kind of camaraderie with him. But that's not the point.

Kerry was always golden. And we kept close all along. And, yeah, he passed away of cancer, the same cancer that, uh, that Downey had. Wow. And Ben,

Ben was on the air until super recently. Like he was let go from, uh, Y108, like very recently. I'm not sure what happened there. I haven't talked to Ben since. We,

we've stayed close. We, we get together, uh, well, we get together, I don't want to say often, but we do get together. And, uh, after that, he, we get together, I don't want to say often, but we do get together.

And after that, he's been kind of, he hasn't really said an awful lot. And I'm not sure if that's... No, he hasn't said anything. Yeah. And I'm not sure if he's laying low or he's moved to another job or what's going on there. But I definitely have to get together with him. But yeah, they conspired together and they grew together. It was a great morning show.

And with Kerry, Kerry is like a time bomb. You just never knew what was going to happen with this guy, man. And I love those type of personalities. To manage them is a lot. But boy, when you listen to the radio, it can be the most fun experience you've ever heard, you know? How about, now, I've had one of these gents on but uh jason barr and chris biggs so so they've been they've been doing mornings for i guess a while now actually uh that they're a year six

or year seven yeah and they're doing doing well what was it like working with them they're fantastic see those guys you know going back to the thing, they wanted to do a show on their own terms. And going back to the thing, we want to talk the way we want to talk. And sometimes they sound like a bunch of grumpy old men. And they burp and they fart and stuff like that. It's a different pace show. But they said, you know, they believed in it and they fought for it. And, oh, you should, you know, and a lot of people try to change that and try to say, hey, it should be more upbeat.

You should, you know, just try to mold them into something that they weren't. But they were always committed to doing what they're doing on their own terms. And it's really succeeded. They sound like nobody, you know, and great morning shows are like that. And they're just there. I love them every day. It's great. And I respect them. Like, I'm so glad that I got a chance

to work with those guys. You know, Biggs and Barr, I mean, as a, as an entity, like as a duo, did not exist until they started podcasting. So like the Biggs and Barr is a podcast that became the Hits FM morning show. But I mean, Barr, of course, was let go from his high-profile gig with Blundell on 102. And Biggs, I can't remember, he was with Mix 999 or something like that?

Yeah, he was Mix, and he was with the Evanov Group and stuff like that. And they bounced around. They got together at a Swiss Chalet, and they said, hey, let's put this, why don't we do a show and put together as a podcast, which is a great way to kind of work it out. They created a brand, like a digital brand that just, you know, could be like us doing this now in our basement. And they kept at it. And that is now a mainstream media morning show, award-winning morning show. Yeah. I mean, they're fantastic.

What they did in that podcast, and they moved it over to traditional radio, but like podcasts, you play by different rules. You do it differently than they do it in traditional radio. I mean, and I think they've succeeded in doing that. I love that show. I think they're fantastic. You know, it's still fun to listen to them, and they don't sound bored of it.

Cool, man, cool. Now, I'm playing the trues, because I want to ask you as a you know a music director you gotta you play a big part in launching bands like you got a lot of power over there now bill king i mentioned was just here uh so i guess a two-part question the first part we'll address and then i'll get into something bill told me about his band china in the early 80s and we'll get to that so we'll start with, like, what is it, how awesome is it to, like, discover and foster new talent,

like The Trues? The Trues was fantastic. I mean, Hits FM always had this, you know, had this thing called Rock Search, which is the annual talent cost battle of the bands. And I saw The Trues when they were opening for Big Sugar. This is when they just came up. They had just moved to southern Ontario, in fact, down in Niagara.

And I saw them open for Big Sugar, and I kind of went, holy crap. So I got on the phone to their manager, Larry Wanagas, and I said, look, I don't know if you want to do this type of thing, but I've got this contest. Why don't you put them in, and we'll just see where things go. So I actually recruited their entry into the whole thing, along with all the bands from Welland and Thorold and Niagara and Burlington and Hamilton and up around the horn. And what was great about the Trues is, you know,

I think we all know these moments when you see a band and your hair is standing on end. And it was like that with them like that with them it's like oh my god look at these guys look at their attack they were just they were so exciting and they had what i call it they had it and the rest is history you know what i mean so that was really exciting you know and it's happened a lot of times it hits you know whether it's bands that were part of our you know part of our culture part of our whole you know our whole um rock search thing or not they're playing the glorious sons right now and that's when lightning struck twice and tell me well what happened is actually john angus guitar player and the truce called me up one day and says, look, I just produced this band out of Kingston called the Glorious Sons.

And I think they should go into rock search. What do you think? And I said, well, I got a couple of things I got to ask. First thing, did you sing, co-write, play guitar, bang a tambourine on this record in any way? He said, no, I did not. Because that would disqualify. It has to be totally independent. I was in the control room the entire time.

So I said, let her go. And it was really good. And when they came down to play, it was once again that experience where your hair stand on end. I said, oh my God, look at this guy. Look at this band.'ve got it it was the most exciting thing we had ever seen it was just it we knew we knew they were going to be great not only because they were just a great rock band but you had this charismatic lead singer you had this band of young lions playing in front of you with great songwriting. That's

the key component that you really need. It's great playing great riffs and pub rock songs, but what was it going to be that's going to elevate them to that next level? It's going to be great songwriting. And Brett Edmonds, lead singer of the band, has got that. And now opening for the Rolling Stones, you know? Like, wow. Yeah. Man. Now, I mentioned Bill King's story here. Let me bring down this. This is,

they must love this jam on Indie 88 because it's, it's got the name Josie in the title. Yeah. Josie Dye must love that over there.

But, so Bill King, jazz musician, he's been all over the place. You must know Bill King. But he had a band in the early 80s called China. And China started getting some airplay. And at some point, there was like, I would call it extortion.

Like somebody kind of came to them and said something about like, you got to pay, we got your song on all these stations, but now you got to pay something like $30,000 or we're gonna pull these songs from the radio or something like this. Okay, this is Bill talking to me yesterday. Wow. Yeah, payola.

So Bill calls it payola. And he says, it was just so, and I don't know, so I guess you'd be in an ideal position to comment on this. And this was in a story about the States, but this payola, pay, and then they refused to play.

They called the bluff, like, we're not giving this guy $30,000 or whatever. And the songs left the playlists. Like, the song came off radio. And radio, of course, was so vital to a band's success. Now, let me ask you then, how have things changed? Like, in the many, many years you were music director, how did it change in terms of how bands could get there?

How a band like The Trues could get So She's Leaving on the Hits FM playlist? How did it work then versus now? It's always worked the same way. It's kind of like as a music director, you have record companies and sometimes band managers, sometimes even band members, you know, send you their music for consideration. Major record labels have huge marketing staffs with priorities and things like that. And so, you know, they make a case. You find yourself almost like a buyer. The music director is a buyer and they're bringing their wares in

and, you know, they want you to buy. They want you to play their music and stuff like that. There's more music than you could ever play on the radio. So it gets down to, well, which ones are you going to play? Well, you use your common sense a lot of the time.

You're going to play things that are familiar because your audience like that. Charts are very often a guide. You have a CanCon thing in your mind, right? There's CanCon Canadian content that you have to deal with. So as you go through everything, you listen to all this music, but you can sit in a 60-minute, 90-minute music meeting if you ever go that far. Nobody goes that far anymore, but you can sit in there and find you're adding one or two songs that's tough especially if you love the music

it's that was the hardest thing is that there's so much great music yet there's no room for it on the radio and you have to start being creative and oh you should we got to play this somehow how do we do it but there's never any money i mean yeah so you never received like uh whatever like a cassette at some point back in the late 80s or whatever that had like $100 bills inside or anything like that? The best thing that I ever got, I'll be quite honest with you, was a band Slick Toxic. I remember Slick Toxic. So Slick Toxic, I got a phone call.

My office was in the basement and reception called me. He said, Paul, there's a package here, but it's soaking wet. So I go up and there's this courier that arrived and it was dripping

and it was alcohol. I was like, what the heck is this? So I opened it up and obviously the courier had dropped this bottle. Okay, yes. And what it was,

they took a bottle of tequila and slapped a Slick Toxic label on it. I remember Slick Toxic. So you get all these little gifts, right? And I joked about this on the air about a year or so ago. And sure enough, one day a courier arrived at the radio station in 2017 or 2018, and it was a 40 of tequila that arrived to make up for that. So I love the guys at Slick Talks that they were listening to at the time. But, you know, that type of stuff, you know. That's the most, okay, so no pay all the scandaling.

No, I mean, listen, you know, music directors, program directors get wined and dined. Yeah, you get concert tickets and free meals and all that kind of stuff. Right, and, you know, I remember one time being flown out to Vancouver to see a band called At The Drive-In, and I already knew the record. It was an alternative hardcore band, and I liked the record.

I said, there's no way this record's going to get onto Hits FM, so let's be clear here. And I always made that clear. I said, if you want to fly me out to another city to see a band, understand is that that's not going to change my perception of the music whatsoever i'm going to call the records i'm going to play the records that matter most to our radio station so just because you're uh you know you're going to take me out to another city doesn't guarantee that you're going to get an ad and i made that you're going to get an ad. And I made that, you know, I made that clear all the

time. Sometimes it was just, everybody knew who I was, but that's the integrity that I wanted to have. You cannot buy, you know, a play, a thing on the playlist. In the States, they started getting creative about 15 years ago by doing it other ways. You know what I mean? So yeah, you know, the States would often do is if you add the record, we'll get you, get you, you know what i mean so yeah you know the states would often do is if you add the record we'll get you uh get you um you know 15 trips for your listeners to go to philadelphia to see a band and maybe some extra money uh on the side they would bill you as an advertising but it's you know canadian radio has got a lot more integrity we still listen to the music that other you know what i was talking about going out to dinner and the flyway, that goes on in every business.

You tell me, because you're only human, Paulie. After they shower you of these gifts and fly you to Vancouver and all this stuff, you never had that, like, oh, throw a dog a bone, because they put... No. Oh, I give it a little extra consideration. But very often, you'd bring that record back to your music meeting, where you're dealing with a jury,

a bunch of people sitting around listening to it. I said, why are you bringing this in? But they got in the meeting. So I knew where the line was and made that very clear with record companies. Showering, I think that's overdone it. But listen, hey, I've been to a few places. There's no doubt about it.

And no buckets of Coke delivered. There weren't lines of Coke and saying, hey, it'll all be yours, Paulie. know back in the day there was lots of that stuff i don't do drugs never have done drugs did not want to get into that just beer no uh no no illegal narcotics for paul beer and tequila are fine but yeah you know uh yeah canadian radio is is is a pretty integral I mean, it's got a lot of integrity, is what I'm trying to say. I hear you. That's good to hear.

Good to hear. Pauly. Killer whale. Take. When I think of hits, like songs I would hear on Hits FM, but I never heard anywhere else, this is top of the list for me. This might have, I probably turned my dial on Drive Homes when I had commutes. Don't even want to speak over Gordy's voice here.

But, yeah, so, I mean, there was also the, what was the one on the album before this that they had the, not Highway Girl. Was it Highway Girl? Highway Girl. Highway Girl, right. The double suicide one? Right. So that was the other one. But this was the killer whale tank.

We had it recited. We knew every word to this monologue that we could only hear on hits. So how did this version of this song get added to the Hits FM playlist? All right. So record companies used to send promotional CD singles. So, yeah, you got to copy the album, but we really want you to focus on this new song. So this was on the CD single for Long Time Running, I think i think which is my wedding song by the way is that right wow i'll get to my wedding song okay that's good uh long time running and i think

it was and it doesn't matter anyways it was the bonus song on it now at the time the tragically hip was the it was fanatical for the band at the time. I mean, we take for granted it always was, but there were steps to its national fanaticism, and it was really taking off. This is around the time of Road Apples, about going into fully completely that album here. This was the first live recording of the Tragically Hip that was

available. And I'm looking at it and said, this is great. Like this is better than great. This is amazing. So we put it on the radio and it was our top request. I'm going to say for like 10 years. Yeah. And then the next one came out, which was the double suicide thing, which is Highway Girl Live. Right. And I said, this is dark, but this is great as well, too. It's so clever and so interesting. And what we love about this is that this middle section you're hearing right now, where Gord kind of starts going off, improvising. Although we know that he's not actually improvising. He's actually working out some song ideas.

Hip fans will know this. But more importantly is that it was something that was exclusive, and the fans couldn't get enough. They just couldn't get enough. So it became part of the culture at Hits FM. It's huge. And I remember bumping into Jake Gold, who is then manager of the Tragically Hip. I spoke to you the other day.

Is that right? Yeah. So I was in Toronto. We bumped into each other, ran around Eaton Centre and he says, man, you've got to stop playing that record. I said, well, why should I? It's the number one request that we have on the radio station. He says, well, we never intended it to be

played on the radio. I said, you're kidding me. You're kidding me, of course. I mean, listen to it. And I think he said it with a grin and a smile on his face. I think he had kind of dropped one. They knew what they were doing. For us to put a bonus track on with the Tragically Up Live when there was no other live recording

may be seen as a mistake because there should have been a live album. But I said, it's irresistible, Jake. How could I not play it? I'd be stupid. I'd be doing your fan base a disservice by not playing it on the radio. And the rest is... And whereas the

regular fantastic studio version of New Orleans is Sinking will sell many copies of Up to Here, this will sell you on the concert experience. This makes you want to see Gord live. That's exactly it. For those who had already seen the band, they got this.

Right. But for those who had not, the band, they got this. Right. But for those who had not, you kind of went, oh, man, this looks fun. Like, that's different. You know, the best Canadian bands, or the best bands are the ones that spread by word of mouth. You've got to see this band. And there's only a handful of those bands that I can talk about that were like that. The Arkells were like that. When I first saw them, they were this scrappy little band. It wasn't perfect.

It was messy. Their arrangements weren't there. But I them they were this scrappy little band it wasn't perfect it was messy their arrangements weren't there but i knew they were building but it was exciting to be part of that be part be in the audience to watch them do that the same thing with the tragically i saw them when that first ep came out and they were okay but the lead singer was like this guy's weird you know but they weren't wholly formed at that time. The songs weren't quite there, but it was something you couldn't forget. And then with every show that followed that,

it started to build into what you're hearing right now. And of course, morphed into something different. He stopped doing this type of stuff after a while. Let me hear just a little bit here. So this jam is like, I don't know, eight and a half minutes long. I guess that wasn't a big deal. It's the DJ go to the washroom, right?

I remember I met Peter Frampton one day. Yeah. And I said, listen, on behalf of all disc jockeys, at least in Canada, I want to thank you for Do You Feel Like We Do? He says, well, why? He says, because it was our bathroom break record. Because it runs like 12 minutes, 13 minutes long, it was a chance for you drop the needle on the record,

you go take a leak or have a smoke out the back. And he looked at me in a peculiar kind of way, and then he kind of got it and said, oh, I get it. I'd always heard that of Indigado de Vida, right? Because that's like, I don't know, that is 15 minutes or something like that. Oh, no, that's a whole album side, so I think Indigato De Vida complete with the bongos.

Bongo, so it was like 20 minutes. You could do a lot more than just take a leak with Indigato De Vida. I wasn't around for when that was on the radio, Indigato De Vida, but I think it was a bunch of guys just getting high. But it was a thing to drop a needle on an album side and just let the record play.

Right. Yeah, it got the greatest notoriety for sure. So let's use this as the perfect opportunity to just chat a little bit more about the Tragically Hip. Sure. Maybe, now I'm really looking forward to this because you're talking to somebody who just always, since the first time I heard Blow It High Dough, that was my

first introduction to the hip was, again, top 10 of 10 on Q107. Boo. That's alright. Blow It High Dough because I didn't hear anything. It was only an EP, I guess, the one with Highway Girl and everything. I guess Up To Here was the first full-length album. They always call it an EP, but it really had

eight songs on it, I think. It's like, how's that an EP? It's true. EPs to me had two, maybe three, but whatever. So, yes, they started playing... Hold on here, Gord's time. So, I mean, I just was hooked instantly, ran out and bought up to here,

played through, love it, just loved them ever since. Tell me about your experiences with the Tragically Hip. Well, you know, all my time at hits, there was always a Tragically Hip song on the radio. You know, when we started, they started. That, you know, Last American Exit, which, even though that's written from a Kingston point of view, made a lot of sense down there in Niagara

as we were just down the road from, you know, the Rainbow Bridge and the Peace Bridge and stuff like that. And that was part of it. And as we grew, we kind of grew, you know, Hits FM grew up along with them. So we, you know, we always were in each other's nest, it seemed. They were great. It's interesting about Gord Downie is how private he was.

I always said that he was the toughest interview that you could ever have because as you're trying to, you know, he's not the type of guy that likes to unravel the meeting about his songs you know he does not like to explain his music he wants to leave it open to interpretation he will open the door for you a little bit and so many of the interviews with him would be about hey you know tell us about new orleans is sinking and he said well what is there to explain you know he does not like to again you know unravel what the songs are all about the other guys were just hey i remember you know they got you know i remember paul langlois and um and gordy sinclair coming down and he came to the white house of rock and there was kind of

like a room outside my office where there was a television and a couple of couches and stuff like that and there's mud on the television screen and there's there's uh a couple of couches and stuff like that. And there's mud on the television screen and there's a couple of roaches in the ashtray. And they said, man, this place is cool, you know. And the idea is that since the radio station was genuine, it's genuine in its music, that they always liked that part of what we were all about. And they were, you know, part of our lives at that radio station,

our music, from the very beginning right to when things kind of went to an end with that show in Kingston. Right now I'm wearing the Tragically Hip Kingston Edition T-shirt of that very last concert. So we're going to get a photo together after this show, and I hope everybody can see that. That's great. Yeah, so very special. We did some great promotions of them.

I think the best thing was a promotion where you, Gord was actually promoting his Cook Machine Glow record, I think, at the time. And the prize was that Gord would broadcast from your kitchen for one hour. Wow. And the guy that won it knew what to do. So he blocked off the street, got a couple of hockey nets out, played a little ball hockey with Gordy outside, and Gord spent the time indoors with everybody. We had staff there.

As a winner, you can invite your friends over, and Gord was as gracious as can be, made his way, met and said hello to everybody. I got him to sign a gold record award that we had at the radio station for the Up to Here record, which is a real special one and and uh he was always you know he and they were always gracious you know um yeah i mean if you're in rock radio the tragically hip are in your blood you know and really i know i asked this who did ask this of dave hodge i think but uh and he he answered with

a band you've already mentioned moments ago but will there ever be anything in this country close to the tragically hip like will that ever happen again in this country a band that all of english canada sort of embraces and sort of our national poet gourd was our national poet can this ever happen again i think that a, you just brought up one thing, set them apart from any other rock band. There will be other famous rock bands. And I mean, rock bands with a capital R. There will be one.

It may be the Glorious Sons. It may be the Glorious Sons will be the next band that will be playing at every major hockey arena across the country and sell out. But it's the poet. And will there be one? one sure there'll be one i but i don't i don't see it there right now i don't see that there at all and i'm not looking for it you know what when it happens it happens will there be another dylan hey we're still waiting for another

dylan but there's lots of great songwriters out there so you know you got to stop waiting for the same thing to come around it will it'll sound different and it'll look different. You know what? The best poets are in hip hop. And most of us rockers don't hear or see that type of thing, but they're there. You know what I mean? But will we ever see another hip? I don't, I don't think so, man. The stars all have to line up the right way. Well, that's sort of like when you ask somebody like, will we ever see another Wayne Gretzky? Well, you're going to get a Crosby, you're going to get some great

generational players, a McDavid or whatever, but you're not going to get another Gretzky. And you'll hear this from the sports guys, the game has changed. The game would never allow for another Gretzky to be around. Gretzky was scoring, I mean, it was firehouse hockey, and you can't get away with firehouse

hockey. It was so freewheeling at the time that I think most teams didn't know how to defend it. Plus you had all the great players on that team too that made it work. But in that same vein, radio has changed so much you can't get another hip in that regard.

In terms of if you ever glance at a I don't know a Billboard Top 100 there's no rock music on there anymore like I mean sure there's still rock radio

there's still gonna play this song will be played on hits today but it's rock rock is no longer what rock had been for decades and decades

it's all hip hop and rock is no longer a cultural what's the word I'm looking for? It no longer is a cultural focal point, the way it was. Like a touchstone?

A touchstone, yeah. You find that in hip-hop music now these days. And, you know, so be it. Rock music is still great. It's still huge. It's still alive. There are millions upon millions of rock bands and fans out there. But it doesn't play a part in pop culture the way it once used to.

And that is probably a natural thing. I mean, if you look at the history of music, I can say the same thing could be about jazz, which dominated the 1900s through to Elvis and the early rock days to all the rest. It's changed, it's changed, it's changed. And yeah, bands like this are going to be there, but they're not going to be as prevalent. People are not going to turn their heads for a rock band

as quickly as they once used to. Man, I miss the Tragically Hip. We'll just leave it at that. I miss them a lot. And it's hard, you know, and it's hard that, I'm sure it was hard for those guys as well too, is that when Gord passed away, they said, it's done. You know, we're done. The book is closed now because, you know, there's only one Gord Downie and he was so

much part of what the band was all about. Not all of it, but so much part of it, and it's done. So you smile back on those things. Right, right. Now here, let's talk about what happened with you at Hits FM. And we haven't talked a lot about ownership, and I don't have the whiteboard in front of me that maps this out, but the Slate family owned it.

I think when the time that I was at hits, it went through nine ownership changes. From Standard to Affinity, which is a local group of investors, to Telemedia had it for a while. Astral had it for a while. Standard had it back. Bell got it. So he's Standard, then Astral, then Bell, right? Because I feel like Astral buys Standard, then Bell buys Astral.

It doesn't matter, I suppose. But at the end of this run, Bell Media owns Hits FM 97.7. And we talked earlier, we referenced with Christy Knight, we talked about how sometimes you're just a number on a ledger and then these decisions are made by bean counters and such. It feels like it.

It feels like it. So what happened? What did they tell you and why? I know you won't, well, let's hear what you say. Why would Bell Media part ways with the heart and soul of Hits FM, the man who built it, the day one-er, Paulie Morris? Yeah, to be honest with you, I hadn't, I had, there were signs that something was up.

And my boss was starting to say, hey, how do you do this? How do you do that? I said, oh, boy, I haven't had a program director ask me how to do certain things, but that's fine. He was a new guy and I kind of went with it, not really thinking too much about it. But then I had this email say, hey, listen, could you meet with us? Could we have a meeting in the boardroom tomorrow morning at 9.30? And that usually is like, no, usually it's done a lot more casually and it kind of went oh boy i wonder if this is it so i had a sleepless night i kind of i kind of knew what was

going on uh i walked to work that day because i didn't live very far from the station and i was listening to um a podcast uh and the last song i heard uh going into the building was Everybody Hurts by R.E.M. And that kind of hung with me for a little bit. And I came in, went up to the boardroom, and they said, we're making some changes. My program director was there with somebody from HR, and he says, Pauly, this is killing me. You're a legend, and I really wanted to work with you. Best of luck. He left the room, and HR go through their thing, and it's just, you're a legend. And I really wanted to work with you. Best of luck.

He left the room and HR go through their thing. And it's just, you're not listening. It's just, you know, you're now deep inside, you know, processing all of these type of things. And you never really do process. It takes a long time. And then you walk out the building and they have somebody walk you out because I guess the fear is that some people may make a left turn instead of making a right turn and go around and start causing a commotion. I'm not that type of guy. As I alluded to earlier is that I knew my day was going to come.

I knew this was going to happen. I'm not Roger Ashby, and that it just might happen, and it was my turn. And I resigned to that. It was just my turn. As I said earlier, you know, I left there doing everything I possibly could. I had a couple of things that I wanted to do that did not get done. I wanted to raise money. I wanted to do something to raise money for music programs in Niagara. I never got to do this. And there was a program that I wanted to do, a weekly one-hour show that I wanted to do that I never got a chance. Maybe I'll get a chance to do that later. But I left there saying,

look what I've done. Look at the people I've worked with. I'm the luckiest guy in the world. And I'm unemployed. But you know what, no regrets. It was great. I'm so lucky because I got to do something and kind of build it with my own two hands. In last in the last years consultants get in the way you resign that spontaneity for research playlists and all that you know safe list and things like that um that you relinquish a little bit of control so it was about where can i make the magic in between all those songs, and you find it. And that's what I endeavored to do.

So as I walked out the building, yeah, it hurt. It really hurt. But I walked away saying, you know, you did a great job. At least I felt that. You did a great job, you know? Well, Paul, you took a little stage. Let's face it. I don't know how many people live in St. Catharines.

I mean, this is a small... You made it a legendary rock station. You made it big. At my goodbye party when I was at Chum FM, I met with the retail sales manager. His name is Jack Addis. And Jack said, congratulations, good luck, and it doesn't stand a hope in hell of winning. And I said, well, what are you talking about? And he says, well, you know, the market,

Niagara is dominated by out of market signals and it's challenged. Plus, you know, the ownership group down in Niagara at the time was kind of dubious. I'm not sure if they had the best business model in place, but you kind of go into that in a naive kind of way. And you, you know, you feel like you're going to conquer the world when you get to do things on your own terms. And so we kind of went with that. And like I said,

we knew once we were there for a year, what we were up against. And we said, well, it can't be just a Niagara radio station. Let's take it up the road. We got to win in Toronto. My aspirations were far bigger than Niagara,

but Niagara is her backyard. So, um, yeah, but you made our backyard. So, yeah. But you made this an incredible, you know, award-winning station. Like, how many awards, by the way, did you win? Like, how many awards did you win in your career at Hits FM? Personal awards, 13 times music director,

two times program director. So, okay, now I'm a little pissed off here because, like, was there any, did the ratings take a deep dive in preceding your dismissal? Were there any signs in the ratings books that things were slisseled? I don't know how the ratings,

whether the ratings were impacted after I left and things like that. It's funny, sometimes you get one of those awards, music director of the year, and you come back and then three months later, the ratings come out and they tank, you know, it's like, oh God, you know, I've got this award for doing such a great job. And yet, you know, we suck, you know,

at least that's your initial reaction to the whole thing. There's the bigger picture, of course. Ratings are just, you know, they're diaries and in Niagara, they're diary systems and they're just it's luck of the draw a lot of the time but i mean you helped build the station uh give it the integrity it's uh it's gave it its sound it's you know what made it special it made a difference and it sounds like uh you were well uh regarded you were recognized i mean that's a lot of awards i

don't know if you have a trophy room do you have like a or is it just a trophy shelf i i i my office hits was yeah but i had this trophy wall and i i just i don't like it i don't like to it's not my style but so what am i going to do with all these things and now they're in boxes at home and and uh what do i do with them you know give them to loved ones yeah but yeah but yeah i Yeah, but I'm really proud of what I did. I go back to being that kid in my bedroom and discovering music and wanting to share, you know, that love and passion for music with other people, and I got to do it at hits

and hopefully made a lot of people happy, you know? And what else can you do that's that's what you want to you're you're not part of the system you are actually changing the system and helping define it there might have been uh i'm guessing because i've recently gone through something like this also and i have many awards as well but uh there must have been some solace in that this wasn't a poly thing because you were one of many effective and hard working Bell Media people who kind of got it like in the wave if you will so at least

there's nothing personal to be taken there were many before me and there will probably be many after so I knew it was not a Pauly thing and as I said I walked away taking a looking at things in retrospect and I'm very proud of what we did what i did what

i was you know i was able to accomplish and and if you've got that that that's all you really need and damned damn them for letting me go but you know i'll be honest with you bill always treated me well i've i it's just it's what's going on in our industry. It's just, it doesn't matter who owns the radio station. It's happening everywhere. Okay, so then this is a fact of business, never personal, as EPMD once said. And I'm sure they treated you fairly on your ouster with severance and everything. So, okay, so, right. So let me ask you this.

I raised this when Ingrid Schumacher got it. So, she was 40 years at Chum FM and then Bell Media let her go. And, okay, business decision, we're all adults, whatever, we move on. But I felt like Ingrid should have been allowed to say goodbye on the air. That's a hard one. Why wasn't Paulie Morris allowed to say goodbye on the air? Because it can get messy. to say goodbye on the air?

Because it can get messy. Yeah, I think, you know, put the hat on, you know, get in the shoes of the program director or the people in the company. You know, if people go on the air, they may turn on the company in the radio station and try to spoil it, you know, and their anger comes through and they will say things that they will, they just say things because they'll spew. Fortunately, in the era of social media, you got an opportunity to say goodbye there. And I did a

Facebook post about many of the things that we talked about here. And a lot of love came out of that. And I wasn't expecting anything, but I knew there were some people, what the heck is going on? We heard that Pauly's not at the station. And so you have an opportunity there to sort of say your piece. And I'm glad for that type of thing.

But no, nobody opens up the microphone and just say, hey, you know, here's your last chance. Okay, but I used to think that way with the Ingrid, but now I see it all the time. Like the big recent example is Andy Frost. Okay, Andy Frost got a farewell episode and we all tuned in to hear him say goodbye. He did, and it was great.

And I think that was to pay him the respect that he deserved. But you deserve, I'm not here to cause a fight with Bell Media. Our internet right now that's powering this podcast is Bell Media. It's not me versus Bell Media here. It's me basically saying, you deserve this. No, thank you. I just feel like Andy Frost is to Q107

as Paulie Morris is to Hits FM. Well, thank you. It's just the way they did it. No regrets. I am glad that Andy got to sign off I'm glad I love the way it finished with Rock and Roll Doctor

the first song that he played he ended on the last song I think it's terrible it's psychedelic Sunday and especially the way his personality the way he wrapped his personality into that show, it was a joy to listen to every weekend. It was great.

And when it's gone, it's really hard to let it go. He's such a great guy, a great broadcaster, a friend to our business. We're better because of it. And that show, that show was a joy to listen to all the time and I'm glad they had the class to give him a chance to say goodbye

but most of us don't get that you know who else got it though pro chorus here one more John Scholes got it too he got to say goodbye too

so I feel Pauly Morris just wish that they had let I wish they had let Ingrid say goodbye and I wish they had let Pauly Morris say goodbye to the audience. But I know, you had no say in that matter.

Last question on this, and no one likes to talk about kind of the down, because we talked mainly about the highs. But last question is, was it tough for you and your daughter Siobhan at all that the company that didn't let you say goodbye and walked you out, and I'm glad they treated you well. That's nice to hear. That's probably a big part of it. But that is also the company she didn't let you say goodbye and walked you out, and I'm glad they treated you well. That's nice to hear. That's probably a big part of it. But that is also the company she works for.

Like, was any of that awkward at all? Nope. Nope, not at all. Not at all. I've been in that building many times. It's understood. There's something understood about what had took place.

It was not personal. It was not, I don't believe it was about performance. It was about, it's almost something except that this is what's going on right now. Yeah. It's not personal. It was not, I don't believe it was about performance. It was about, it's almost something except that this is what's going on right now. Yeah. It's about green. Well, I don't know.

You know, as I said, I'm not full of myself to think that maybe they just wanted a change. They wanted somebody different with a different point of view to do it differently. I totally respect that. Remember when we talked to part of the theme about Hits FM is that it must change. Sometimes you got to change the personalities out as well too. Maybe it was that. Maybe it was money. I'll never know. I don't care anymore. You know, I really don't. That station is in my blood. It really is. I still listen. I miss it. All that stuff. Nostalgic sometimes for it, but now I'm a fan, you know, just like everybody else. In the day we sweated out on the streets of a runaway American dream

At night we ride to mansions of glory and suicide machines Sprung from cages on highway nine, four-wheel fuel injected and stepping out over the line Paulie, the boss. Born to run. Well, that was one of my wedding songs. So there you go. I think every kid goes through this type of thing. I grew up with my brother's records and my friend's records. We had this huge community.

And if you're a music fan you're always trying to find music that you can call this is mine yes i get this i can identify this with this and when born to run came out it clubbed me across the head and i heard so much in this song that I could identify with maybe not stuff about you know the checklist of jersey places and the bike rider type of thing but it's that will you walk with me out on the wire I'm just a scared and lonely rider but I gotta know how it feels I want to know that love is wild I want to know that love you know and then there's the promise at the end of the song Sunday girl I don't know when we're going to get to that place where we'll go and we'll walk in the sun

and uh and that's hopes and dreams in life on the edge and that I could identify with and and it's one of those it's one of those records that still has me you know it's one of those records that still has me. It's one of those songs that I still turn it up. The song has become almost a cliché, and I don't care. I really don't. Some of the lyrics in here sound kind of dated and corny and Springsteen and all the rest, but when I hear it, I hear that kid i i see myself in my bedroom when i was 17 years of age and this record came out and i said oh crap this is it and that whole album to

go with it and uh and i got to see springsteen in the earliest of days when nobody knew who he was i played this i see if you heard, like we used to, you know, my friends, we used to swap records. If you heard this, if you heard this. This is something nobody had ever heard.

And I went, wow, I love this. And nobody cared. So it was part of that. I was part of my secret. And then when I got to see him on the Darkness on the Edge of Town tour at Maple Leaf Gardens

and the concert bowl that was there, it was everything that you wanted a rock artist to be it was the most exciting thing i had ever seen it was like nothing i'd ever seen before and uh well you know the legend as it is but back then seeing that for the first time when i was still young and and he was still carving that whole thing out man it was it was really something. So Born to Run is still my song. Now, when you come back to kick out the jams,

you're still going to get this on the list, right? We'll do this again, right? I guess I have to put it because it's my song, right? We're blowing our own thunder here. But, you know, here's the hard thing. It's going to be really tough because I love a lot of music. I mean, it's funny. When I was listening to Dave Hodge when he was on this show,

I said, boy, I love everything that you're playing here. Everything from Japan Droids to The Hold Steady to Dylan to, like,

what am I going to do? I don't want to say how do I top this, but, you know, I have a love for metal. Right.

I have a love for Americana. I have a love for pop music. But this is why I'm actually, in fact, I think when we were

chatting about you coming on, I could tell you kind of wanted to kick is why I'm actually like, in fact, I think when we were chatting about you coming on, I could tell you kind of wanted to kick out the jams. Oh, I did, yeah. Even though the exercise is difficult, but rewarding. Let's play music, you know? Right.

And I was like, slow your roll, Pauly. You got to do the deep dive before you get to kick it down. So at least now I know you are going to come back. Like maybe we can tie it, maybe we can tie it to like taking your daughter out to lunch or something like that.

But you're coming back to kick out Jams. And I'm personally excited about your jam kicking because of how eclectic it might be. You're right. There might be, and I'll make this up, there might be like a Cinderella song next to like a Bob Dylan song. Like this is going to be all over the place.

When I was in university, I used to make mixtapes and used to make them for pubs that we'd have in the college. And I would mix, you know, I'd mix The Clash with Sinatra. I would mix Elvis Costello with Nat King Cole. And people loved it because they love it. It's like, this is crazy, man, but this is cool. I remember playing Sinatra Live at the Sands. It's an album my father used to play in the house all the time.

So when I got to university and I'm in my dorm room and I put it on, I had like three guys run and said, what the F are you doing? I know exactly what you're talking about. I had a Sony Walk when I'd take to school. So one day I'd have Public Enemy in there. The next day I'd have The Clash in there. And the next day I'd have Simon and Garfunkel.

And the next day Frank Sinatra. And the next day Jimi Hendrix. I know exactly what you're talking about. If it's good music, it doesn't matter whether it's rock or anything else. You've got your Public Enemy t-shirt up here. And I'm going, man, that's... And that's the same thing with me. It doesn't matter what it sounds like.

If it's compelling and great music and you can relate to it and find something in it, then why not play it? And it can be ancient music and it can be the newest record that's out there. You just got to find them sometimes. All right. Now, I can't leave Bruce yet. I got to leave Bruce in a moment. Just real quick because I do a lot of the kicking out of the...

We kick out the jams. I think we've done 50 of a moment. Okay. Just real quick, because I do a lot of the kicking out of the... We kick out the jams. I think we've done 50 of them now. Okay. And often, I'm not going to stereotype here, but a frequent jam kicker might be a sports journalist between the ages of 50 and 60. Okay? I'm just going to...

Okay. So when I have a sports journalist here between the ages of 50, actually, maybe almost anyone between the ages of 50 and 60, I can almost, especially if it's an English-speaking white Canadian, I'm pretty certain I'm going to get a Bruce song.

I'm going to get a Bruce, the boss. And of course, I was born in the 70s, so my first Bruce Springsteen experience is born in the USA. And I come at it a little differently. In fact, in a moment I'll play my favorite Bruce song, which might upset you.

I hope not. I hope we don't judge anyone's jams here. But I totally get it. I've done a lot of deep digging and stuff, and I totally get why somebody your age, and you mentioned being 17 years old and listening to Born to Run, I can see how that would hook you for life like forever when you hear bruce now when you hear uh born to run forever you're a teenager like that's a potent like was it don draper who said nostalgia was a potent drug yeah yeah uh i

i'm not trying to live a past at all when i do it i just you know i listen to the born to run record on my way up here and the best place to listen to Born to Run is in the car. And every time, you know, on Thunder Row, it says, roll down the windows and let the wind blow back air. I roll down the windows and I stick my head in. I look like an absolute idiot when I do it, but it's irresistible. Yeah. How does it, how come he relates to it? Like that's part of the Springsteen thing. Not everybody likes Springsteen. Some people think he's freaking annoying,

but it really depends upon when you grew up. You know, when I worked with Gord Johnson at Chum FM, he was a morning man at the time. And he said to me, he says, you know, the music that you love the most is the music that you grew up with when you were a teenager. He said 17 years of age. and that is different from everybody else. If you think about the records that you listened to when you were 17... Smells Like Teen Spirit. Yeah, I'm there.

Right. Born to Run for me. So that's part of it. It's in your blood. It's when music meant... It was the world. It's when music means something more than anything else in the world.

Right. It's your go-to. When you're by yourself and all the rest. You can relate to the music of that time when you do it. But Springsteen, of course, he covers a lot of territory, a lot of different generations and stuff like that. And I think it's because if it's not the music, damn it, it's those shows. Those shows where he puts out.

I remember hearing Dallas Green of Sitting in Color and Alexis on Fire, and he was doing an interview, and the guy asked him, he said, hey, I heard you went to Springsteen last night. What did you see? What did you think? And he says, he said, as a performer,

I can't believe, I don't know how he does what he does. It is physically impossible what he does. And then the way he works with an audience is second to none. And if you don't like Springsteen's music, you have to respect him as a performer. And I don't know of a single person who will go to a Springsteen show and not find something to enjoy. If not, become a lifelong fan. Do you know I've never seen him live?

I need to rectify that, right? Wow. I know. How many times have you seen Bruce live? Have you lost track? Every tour, every tour since Darkness on the Edge of Town, including the one he kicked out the E Street Band

and he brought in... Will you travel to see him, though? Will you plan a trip around seeing him? If I had the money, I would. Yeah. one of these i'm not one of these nomads uh i would love to i mean the place to see springsteen apparently is in europe that is the place to see him i mean yeah you would say hey see him in new jersey in his own backyard you know at the stadium shows that are there i did i did get to see Springsteen play at the Stone Pony, the infamous little club down in Jersey along with Southside Johnny and Bon Jovi

all on the same stage all at the same time. That was a thrill for sure. And Pauly Walnuts was in the crowd. Pauly Walnuts was in the crowd, right. Silvio was on stage as well. Of course he was. That's right. That's right, of course.

But I've seen him probably every single tour since. And everyone brings a different experience to it. So that's my thing. Countless numbers of times. I mean, I stopped counting. So I mentioned the sports journalist

between the ages of 50 and 60. One gentleman is Brad Fay. Okay. Who Raptor fans definitely know. Yeah, he's on Sportsnet quite a bit. But Brad Fay, I believe, I have to follow up with him, but at the time he was in, he had seen Springsteen live 98 times. Oh, man.

Man, that's craziness, you know? The thing is, every show's different. Every show's got a different song list. That's why people keep coming back. You can go see him five times in a tour, and there's always the core songs that he's going to play. There's always going to be Glory Days, and there's always going to be

Dancing in the Dark. But then there's the wild cards, and that's what fans go for. The real fans go for are the wild cards. A lot of Springsteen, so if you ever have some time to kill, you want to listen to somebody kick out of the jams, you can pretty much size them up by their age.

And white English, Canadian, between 50 and 60, you're probably going to hear a Bruce song, probably. Although not for Brunt and Hodge, I noticed. They went all new stuff, but that's different. Now, I'm playing this song because, believe it or not, I think if I listen to the man's entire catalog and the songs that mean something to me and that I love, this might be my favorite Bruce Springsteen song.en song and i mean he did a lot of soundtrack songs because i mean you can do the philadelphia so he did a lot of soundtrack songs but this is for some reason maybe it's because i really got into this film and i really like

the soundtrack because i had this pearl jam track i really the face of love that i really was into but this might be and i just think that's like one of those surprising, of all the Springsteen songs, why would a guy pick the Dead Man Walking? But that's me, so I thought I'd share that. Well, there is this, on my phone is the Nebraska record. And it's a record that I listen to when I drive on the dark roads, in the back roads, and it just speaks to you in a certain way. And that's the way, you know, those are the different speeds of Springsteen is that,

yeah, there's the music, which is just great rock and roll, the big hits and all the rest. But these are the songs like that song there that really speak to you in a completely different way. And it's important that Springsteen remains versatile. You know, a great artist doesn't repeat themselves. They find different things to sing about and express themselves in different kind of ways. And even those ones that are quieter like

that, they resonate with me just as much as a Thunder Road, Born to Run and all those. Paulie, I got to close with this big question. What's next? Well, hey, you're always looking to get back into the game, right? I always say I'm on the bench right now. I can't, I don't want to talk about this because in a way because I'm, it deals with, it deals with doing, it's like a new radio station in a way, dealing with a famous Toronto nightclub. And I will just leave it at that. Okay, that's good. Wet our appetites a bit,

make us do some guessing in the comments. Right. And it's when I got released from hits, I got a phone call very shortly after that with a pitch to do this. And it's a, it's, I can't get into it too much right now. It's still in progress. I think that might be the most best way of putting it.

Okay, no, it's a good teaser. I like that. I'm optimistic. As you know, money is always an issue with all new projects and things like that. And I just, this might be the last piece of the new project that's being put together but stay tuned on this they've asked me to be part of this this big endeavor so i'm pretty excited about it and probably goes about saying i mean i know your daughter i quite like her that's why i've had her over twice and i need to come up with a new reason

to have her over a third time. I quite like her. Well, it's kind of funny. Her most recent reporting gigs have been Humboldt and a lot of the tough things that have taken place here in the city of Toronto, and I'm sure she would speak to all of those, what it's like. It's a tough time right now in our world, and she's kind of had that right in her face. And her station, they brewed a beer at Great Lakes Brewery. Yes, they did. in our world and she's kind of had that right in her face so and to her uh station did brew uh they

brewed a beer at great lakes brewery that uh the news talk i saw her there i went i i went over when they were all there jim richards and uh and j mad dog michaels and some of my buds were there and uh yeah i saw her there that was i think that's the last time i saw her but um so you have a supportive family so i don't even need to say the obvious here, which is that you are not your job. Like I think of some people, they spend decades at a job that they, it's the heart and soul. They start to identify so closely with the job. When a conglomerate like Bell Mediates takes the job away, they feel like they lose a part of themselves. And I think this is very common, especially like I'm going through something similar. Now I'm launching TMDS,

which I'll blab about it another day. But you are not your job, and there is a what's next for Polly. Like, you have so much you can give back to us, and this new venture sounds exciting. I'm sure there'll be other opportunities, and we'll stay tuned to find out where we can hear you next. Stay tuned. But thanks for doing this.

This was fantastic. This was a lot of fun. Thank you. And that brings us to the end of our 360 second show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Paul is, or Pauly, I should say, is at Radio Pauly. So follow Paul at Radio Pauly, and you can find out what's next. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. and you can find out what's next. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer.

Propertyinthe6.com is at Raptors Devotee and Paytm is at Paytm Canada. See you all next week. is coming up rosy and gray yeah the wind is cold but the smell of snow won't stay today and your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away

cause everything is rosy and gray well I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who