Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Perry Lefko: Toronto Mike'd #589

Episode Date: February 24, 2020

Mike chats with author Perry Lefko about his years at the Toronto Sun, Sportnet, working with the CFL, with Frank D'Angelo, writing books about Eddie Olczyk, Pinball, Doug Flutie and others, and so much more. Peter Gross joins in the fun as we learn about David Cassidy's horse that was named after him.

Welcome to episode 589 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. The Keitner Group.

They love helping buyers find their dream home. Text Toronto Mike one word to 59559 and Banjo dunk from whiskey Jack one of the most celebrated roots country bluegrass bands in Canadian music history I'm Mike from Toronto Mike calm and joining me this week off the top there's two of you but

my primary guest, author, and many other things we'll discover. Don't call him Perry Lefkoe. You can call him Perry Lefkoe. You can call me Perry Lefkoe, but don't call me Perry because as I told my mother many times, you gave me the worst name only to be followed by the second worst name. I'm not going to reveal that name, okay? But this is true. Do you know what it is, Peter?

He does not know. I don't know his middle name, but I can just tell you from my long history with Mr. Lefkoe. Okay, so I haven't even introduced you yet. Joining Perry Lefkoe, at least for the opening... As long as he wants.

As long as he wants. He's the legendary... Can I call you that? Peter Gross. Well, as opposed to the boring Peter Gross. It's Peter F and Gross. So I got a Perry and a Peter. All we need is a Paul, right?

I want to start with the highest level of hypocrisy with regards to Lefkoe. If you phone him and say, hey Perry, it's Peter. He says, don't call me Perry. I hate Perry. Call me Lefkoe. But look what happens if you call him.

Okay? So if you call him on his phone and he doesn't answer. Okay, this is live. What are you doing here? You're calling him. Oh, okay. You screwed it up, man. Turn up the volume and put it right in front of that mic.

Are you a radio guy or what? All right, Peter. Okay, let's do this eight times. All right. guy or what all right pete okay let's do this eight times to get that when he leaves a message on the phone it's hi it's perry explain yourself perry i just explained myself i i don't like the name perry i've been very vocal about that with my mother now i'm all i'm gonna be 60 years old next. So from the moment I came out of her womb, I said, I hate that name. She hadn't even picked a name yet, but I somehow knew it. So for purposes of business, in case somebody like Donald Trump wants to call me,

which he did, we'll get to that later on. I can't say, hi, it's Loveco. You know, you've got to be a little professional, Peter Gross. If Donald Trump called you Perry, you'd be rude to him? Oh, we're going with all the hot. David Cassidy, who I knew, interviewed, met, along with Peter F. Gross. Okay. He was a good guy.

My middle name is F. Right. Good guy. Just a little bit of this David Cassidy classic, and then we're going to jump right into it. I believe in my last episode of Sass Jordan, the name David Cassidy came up, and I teased the story. So let's hear it. I'll bring her down.

Okay, Perry, take it away. By the way, can I do a Sass Jordan story? Yeah. David Cassidy came up and I teased the story. So let's hear it. I'll bring her down. Okay. Perry, take it away. By the way, can I do a Sash Jordan story? Yeah. I actually have one. Sash Jordan used to play with, was the box, correct? Yeah. Or a variation of the box.

You ready for this? She's in the video for Closer Together by the box, but she doesn't actually sing on that song, which I only learned last Friday when she came over. But she did play an iteration of that one. I think it was Men Without Hats or Men Without Brooms or something like that. Boondock. Anyway, I know the members of the group The Box

through a connection with Ed Sousa of Classic Bowl, who I said I was going to mention his name. So there's the connection of me almost knowing Sass Jordan. That's pretty awesome. Sass, by the way connection of me almost knowing Sass Jordan. That's pretty awesome. Sass, by the way, I highly recommend the Sass Jordan episode of Toronto Mic'd because she was fantastic. Perry, you can listen to that on your drive home.

Okay, so David Cassidy. What the hell does David Cassidy have to do with you and with Peter Gross and with horse racing? Take it away. David Cassidy, beyond just being an exceptional musician, and he was, because Peter was there when we saw him at Casino Rama, played the drums, played the guitar like I could not believe it.

Anyway, he was very, very proficient in horse racing, particularly in breeding. And somehow or another, through a connection to Peter Gross, because David Cassidy had a horse that was unnamed. The trainer was named Arthur Silvera. I said, Arthur, what if we named the horse Peter the Gross instead of Peter the Great? He ran it by David Cassidy. David thought it was great. And I had interviewed David, I don't know how many months before that, just about horse racing, breeding. He knew it backwards

and forwards. Brilliant mind for breeding. Rode it for Peter F. and Gross for down the stretch they come. And then we got to meet David Cassidy, myself, Lady Jane, Peter F. and Gross. Who's Lady Jane? That's my wife, right? I need to tell the people. She was given that nickname by Spider Jones. You ever interviewed Spider Jones?

I reached out to him. The lovable one. Spider Jones. Spider, Spider. What's the name of the Leafs captain? Sundin, not Sundin. That's another. I said that to the guys in the one. Spider. Spider. Spider. What's the name of the Leafs captain? Sundin. Matt Sundin. That's another. I said that to the guys in the Sun.

Watch. Ask him the name of the Leafs captain. He'll say Matt Sundin. So I said, Spider, what's the name of the Leafs captain? Matt Sundin. Right? It was Spider. Great guy, but he could butcher the language.

Double shot power. There you go. Yeah. Lovable one. Lovable one. Spider Joel. Apparently you're going to make a million dollars with this book. If I may interject here.

Yes, of course. So wait, Peter, just a recap. You promised me I'd get some airtime as opposed to... Wait a minute. I went to the Gallagher School of Broadcasting. It's all about me. Okay. Okay.

David Cassidy, even as a 60-year-old, women like threw their panties at him they he was the biggest teen idol in in the late 60s and 70s and even in in 2000 even at when we went to casino rama the women adored him so i'm at saratoga one time and this peter the gross thing has already happened he's already owns a horse called peter the gross so he he i arranged to interview him and he's sitting in a box at saratoga racetrack watching the horse races and instead of women coming up and gasping and you know being orgasmic these elegant men in three thousand dollar suits 70 year old men are coming up to him because he was renowned in the United States for being one of the great creators of broodmares.

He actually won an eclipse award, which is the highest award you can get in horse racing in the United States for the best broodmare. And I just thought that was interesting is that he wasn't this pop star. These guys were throwing their panties at him. No, they were just, they wanted to talk to David Cassidy

because his level of expertise in the breeding department of horse racing was so terrific. Second only in breeding proficiency to John Gallagher. I was going to ask for more details on the breeding thing, but firstly, let me just recap this

so we can digest this. A David Cassidy-owned horse was named Peter the Gross because Perry suggested it. Lefkoe suggested it. Lefkoe suggested it. Go ahead. And that, of course, is named after you, Peter. And on Twitter, when I follow you, I follow Peter the Gross.

Does this explain that? Yeah. So how did the horse do? Was this a successful horse? Did it become glue? But we So how did the horse do? Like, was this a successful horse? Did it become glue? But we don't know that, right? Remember when we had Dan Loisel on a recent episode of Down the Stretch podcast? Of course I do.

And so Dan... You think I'm going senile? The problem with Peter the Gross is he could run fast for about 200 yards, but the races are six, three quarters of a mile. So Peter the Gross would be prominent in a race for the first 15 seconds and then he would fade and i think it was the second race no it was the first race first maybe the first race i remember the exact words and he ran okay how did the dan was and peter the gross running like his namesake with short choppy strides. Peter the Gross did not win at Woodbine.

He took his act to another venue, and he rocked and rolled. He rocked it. Wow, he won two of 48 races. Come on. Don't ruin the story, Aaron. He won twice. Don't mention the 48 race.

But no, but there's a happy ending. There's a happy ending? There's a happy ending to this because a lovely lady found that Peter the Gross was a really good hobby horse and he's he's doing low level jumping so he's being well well cared for and apparently is a very kind well-behaved horse like you just i was gonna say just like his namesake uh fantastic story time all together now i need to give you an opportunity peter to tell us like if we're interested in

learning more about ontario horse racing like is there anything like a podcast or anything out there like what would a guy like a podcast listener do if they wanted and what if they wanted to hear more peter gross like tell us about your horse racing podcast well we started uh the down the stretch podcast we just laid down the sixth episode and um without getting into the specifics of the amount of money, within a few hours of pitching a down-the-stretch podcast to John Siskos of Ontario Racing, I got Ontario Racing on board, the HBPA, the Horseman's Benevolent and Protective Association,

Ajax Downs, Central Ontario Standard Bird Association, and even Nissan Micra, even Nissan... It's a dealership. Airport, I'm sorry, Airport Nissan. That was at Romeo? Pineview Hyundai and Airport Nissan, owned by the Romeo family. I bought my car off of them, so they're on board as well.

Okay, so last time you were on, we were concerned you might be living under a bridge one day. Is it fair to say this, the down the stretch podcast is preventing that? Well, no, I'm living under the bridge, but now I've got a,

now I've got a nicer box with some blank. By the way, have you ever told the story about the people that won 30 million or half of 30 million? Did you ever tell that? Well, the down the stretch podcast has emerged from 13 years of publishing Down the Stretch newspaper. The Down the Stretch newspaper, Canada's most informative and entertaining horse racing publication, began 13 years ago, shortly after my babysitters won $16 million in the lottery.

million dollars in the lottery i get a phone call on a monday morning approximately january the the fifth or sixth uh at two o'clock in the morning and that's when i used to wake up to go work at 680 news where i no longer work because they fired me last summer because you fell asleep on the mic yeah that's all so so the phone rings and it's it's my babysitter's husband tony quite a character yeah he says we wanted you to be one of the first to know we won the lottery. What kind of a joke is this to play at 2 o'clock in the morning? It's not even funny. He says, come on over. So now it's 2.30 in the morning.

I'm at Tony's house, which was just a few blocks from me. And he's showing me his Super 7. This is before the Friday night max draw. It's called super seven and he had 30 lines he had 20 worth of tickets 30 lines nothing matched i'm looking at every line nothing matched nothing matched the very last line all seven numbers for 16 million dollars wow and a few uh weeks or months after that i i pitched them i said i want to produce my own now tell them the three things you asked for that was number three was it not he knows my whole history um they uh i was in

a situation where i wanted to buy a house and i went to them and i said will you lend me some money to buy a house and mila tony's wife says well if we lend you the down payment, you'll still have the rest of the house you have to pay off. And I said, well, what are you saying? She says, once you find the house you want, we'll give you the money for it. Which was as a loan. They didn't give it to me as a debt. Okay, well, that's okay, as a loan. But no interest charged?

No, I wrote a contract, a two-page contract, very simple mortgage contract in which I promised to pay 5% interest, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They never signed it. So for about three years, I just paid them, gave them money every month. They also, within a week of winning the lottery, bought me a new car. So I get a new car. Wow. They front me on the mortgage.

Wow. And then… I did not know this story a couple months later uh i put together this proposal for a newspaper it was a six page piece of paper or something and i handed to mila and she doesn't want to open it she says how much do you need and i came up with a figure at the top of my head she says okay wow i'm glad perry's here i'm learning all the the now the crazy the crazy uh one crazy part of this story and soon i might i might even let perry talk in a moment yeah i don't i i i think the world of this guy he's a character i want him to enjoy my time for his time gallaghering you i don't care a few years into this mortgage with tony and mila with no contract these mortgage

people literally came to my door and said we'll give you a mortgage for two and Mila with no contract. These mortgage people literally came to my door and said, we'll give you a mortgage for two and a half percent. And at the end of the day, you're going to have another $10,000. You don't have to give us any money. And it was very legitimate. So they wanted to buy what was left of the outstanding mortgage for Tony and Mila. And these mortgage people had never seen a circumstance with a mortgage that didn't have a contract. So Tony and Mila, Tony used to deliver supermarket flyers up and down the street. Mila used to babysit children. So I go to Mila and I said, you're going to get $250,000. You have to go Friday to Huron, Ontario and Dundas. And Mila says, I got to go all the way to Mississauga. End of story.

Amazing. Perry, can you do a little gloating? Is it true that you're essentially the man who gave birth to Gallagher and Groh Save the World? This is true. I thought of two guys who I admire tremendously and I'm not being BS-ing on that one, right? Because they are two of the greatest characters

in the business, a business which is devoid of any personality right now, okay? Which we have guys on sports talk radio giving us endless statistics, but no personality. These two guys invented personality. When God said, I want to create radio, and who was the guy that invented, Marconi? Yeah, Marconi made the radio whatever that song right um so he said i want to invent radio i need two people that i think will define what radio is all about he produced

peter effing gross and john gallagher who doesn't have a nickname, but I could probably come up with him, right? Spike. Spike. Come on. That's not how I know him, okay? So anyway, I said you two guys should get together. What I didn't realize is that they have tremendous personality, but he put them together. And one common component,

which is true for anybody who ever worked with Gallagher, is your job is to just sit there and introduce Gallagher. Gallher will take over the mic and as a matter of fact a certain person who we worked with basically neutered John Gallagher for talking too much and that's about as much as I'll say about that person Peter who's he talking about I'm not sure who I just gotta be perfectly frank about it you know when I'm on with, and we're talking about the Gallagher and Gross Save the World podcast, which we've had 31 episodes now. Okay, so you have two podcasts, Peter. One is working out quite well for you.

You're making some good scratch out of Down the Stretch. And I urge everyone listening to subscribe to Down the Stretch, the podcast on torontomike.com subscribe to Down the Stretch, the podcast. On torontomike.com, there's a link at the top that says TMDS Podcasts. There's a convenient subscription link in there. Subscribe to Down the Stretch. But you have another podcast called Gallagher and Gross Save the World of John Gallagher. And, oh, God, I love this podcast.

Like, no disrespect to the Down the Stretch podcast, which is… We're getting amazing response. Anyone who listens to the Gallagher podcast which is we're getting we're getting amazing response anyone who listens to the doubt to sorry to the gallagher and gross he's getting confused the gallagher and gross uh save the world podcast uh finds it profoundly entertaining i mean i'm just a lion tamer right i just sit and let john because john's got the most insane stories i think we've done a good like at the beginning i'm'm with you guys. Gallagher was doing some interrupting of you because he's used to being the alpha male or whatever. And then I think we talked to him, right? And he has toned it down a bit.

He's aware of that and he accepts that criticism. He's a good guy about it. And it's Perry. So thank you, Perry. By the way, can we wish John Gallagher Godspeed? So do we have a diagnosis?

Because I revealed this morning that Humble Howard Glassman was diagnosed with a heart condition, which is being treated now, and he's fine. But it was a scary week for him last week in the hospital. I'm learning now another TMDS client is having heart... I'm going to lose all my clients. I got this text from Johnny on the weekend. This is breaking news.

Back in emergency with chest pains, trouble breathing and dizziness and he posts a picture of himself here's me getting chest x-rays at 1 30 in the morning after 10 hours waiting i think your co-host is falling apart what day was this i want to make do we know if he's if he's he alive still that was friday hey buddy i'm not trying to be rude or evasive or a recluse i've just had a lot of chest pain problems lately had a whole series of tests yesterday and ekj blood work just waiting for the results kind of shaky and then yesterday okay um hey man thanks for all your nice messages. I'm on a shitload of medication. I feel 100% better. 10 hours in emergency was not what I signed up for. That's a Gallagher phrase, right?

But what he did was, that problem was created by his latest indulgence with women. Did you know that? Talk to us. Some kind of soiree to have gone bad. Is it orgies? What is it? I'm not going to get into the whole story.

I just know every time I talk to John, he tells me, I was out with this girl last night. I can only assume that his condition was in some way affected by some tryst. You're assuming? Some tryst. You're assuming? I know. Don't assume.

Is that what you're going to tell me? You're going to tell me that one? Remember that episode? The episode of what? The Odd Couple. Of the Partridge Family? The Odd Couple. What's his name?

Oscar says to Felix, never assume. A-S-S-U-M-E. Get it? Yeah, it makes an ass out of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that where that originated? The greatest sports writer of all time, Oscar Madison. Except when he played against Bobby Riggs.

I could go on and on with that. And Bobby Riggs challenged him to type his name in like seven seconds and was like, Oscar Matasox, Oscar Matasoy. Classic that show. How did you come to know John Gallagher, Perry? We're going into an area I hope I didn't go to. But anyway, I was recruiting personnel for a certain owner of an internet radio station and i said how about john gallagher he thought that was the greatest thing in the world he called them up john was on because i i i recognize people who have far more talent than i do when it comes to radio broadcast i said get john gallagher john Gallagher calls him up right away. After about two episodes, John was told, you can't say that to me. You can't talk to me like that.

Even though the person who had the internet radio station, who still has it, said, you can say whatever you want. Unedited, unfiltered, whatever you want. Except there was a point. And there's a, is Bill Waters involved in this as well? I think Bill is still there. I am no longer affiliated with that particular establishment. Okay, are we,

like, I know you're not saying the name. Because for legal reasons, I'm not allowed to say it. Are we allowed to? Yeah, I think you can say it. You can do whatever you want. Something to do with Frank D'Angelo?

It's Frank D'Angelo. Yeah. Okay, well, this is, okay, because, you know, it's a reoccurring theme on the show where people who worked, people who worked

including Gallagher, people who worked with Frank D'Angelo, I will have questions and I won't pepper you with them right now because I want to warm you up and I need your guards to come down first. I've been doing this a long time. What do you mean by guards? You're coming in kind of... He gets you talking about your cocaine use and your... Can we at some point talk about a song called The Promise,

if we can play a song later on? Yeah, is that Win in Rome? Yeah, Win in Rome, at the end of Napoleon Dynamite. And through a connection with Classic Bowl, I have now become very, very good friends with two of the original members of Win in Rome. That's Andrew Mann that you're looking at right now. And by the way, in the video, Andrew is the lead singer, but he really isn't.

It's Clive is the lead singer, but Andrew had hair to die for. This is an 80s classic. I'm an older gentleman. I know my When in Rome. So I've got to know these guys very well. And when I did the Eddie Olchuk book, I told him I would mention them in the acknowledgements. I said, I promise. I delivered on my promise.

Handsome guy. Looks a bit like a Michael Hutchence. Yes, he does, right? That hair is to die for. He doesn't have that same hair now, but what a beautiful guy inside and out. Same with Clive. So they occasionally play at Classic Bowl, as do many. I got to bring that guy in here who manages Classic Bowl and talk about all the groups and what he's done

and how he's raised almost $250,000 for Princess Margaret Hospital through music. Here, we'll let him get to the chorus here. Okay. So this is Clive actually singing, not Andrew. But Andrew wrote the second here. Okay. So this is Clive actually singing, not Andrew. But Andrew wrote the second chorus. I have a friend. This was her wedding song.

It's a great song. The only problem is every time I hear it, I get very emotional for some reason. This song just gets to me, right? It's a safe space here. And the fact I've been allowed the privilege of getting to know these guys, it's been one of the greatest thrills of my life.

Just being in the media or just having the opportunity to meet people you never thought you would ever have a chance to talk to, that alone is reason enough to want to be in the media. No matter where it goes from here and it's going in a, well, I could say H-E double hockey sticks is where the media is going. You can't say hell? Are we allowed to say it's going to hell right now?

But just for podcast, and I'm not trying to butter your butt or even Peter's. No, please, butter my butt. This is the future of the media because it's honest, it's unfiltered and these are the stories that you really need to tell, not the stories that are going to be, we didn't like the way the guy talked last night or she talked

last night so we're going to replace her. It's incredible the way this broadcast business, I've only been a part of it. I was in the newspaper business. Proud to say I did it and loved it and still do. The broadcast business is hell. I don't know how people get into it, why they get into it, because it's such a short span and it could be predicated just because someone, I don't like the way you look. I don't like the sound of your voice. You made a point earlier about how all the personalities, like the Gallaghers, all the big personalities have been

weeded out. There is no personalities anymore. All those personalities, like the Gallaghers, all the big personalities have been weeded out. There is no personalities anymore. All those personalities have gone towards Toronto White. Okay, they're all here. And again, I'm not trying to lay a little bit of butter on your pancakes, okay? I just made up that expression, right? But if you really want to hear it, you want to be entertained, you go to a podcast. On that note,

we talked, in fact, I think I was mid-sentence, but we talked about... Just thanks again for playing this song. I swear, I just, I can't believe that I know these guys. By the way, it's a safe space. Listen, when Aaron Davis was here a couple weeks ago, I openly wept on this program. If you feel the need to cry, please, just let it out.

I'm crying inside. And what is it? I'm felling or one of those? Are you good on Yiddish? Felling? No, I'm not good at Yiddish. I love this guy. This guy?

He is. I love him more. Okay. Who do you love more, Peter, me or Perry? I've known Perry longer. That's right. And I've done more for his career. Just to be honest, I gravitate towards unusual personalities.

Yes, I do too. And Mike, you're not an unusual personality. You're kind of stable. You're a provider. You are a provider. I'm an enabler. That's right. You enable people like Peter Gross and John Gallagher

to have another voice. I like those personalities, the Gallagher's. And I mean, I do a show with Mark Hebbshire. I think he's got a great personality, but it's a big personality, which might explain why he's not on TSN or Sportsnet right now. He's one of those interesting characters. And Gallagher and Gross saved the world.

But we're down the stretch is making you some money and you're doing quite well. By the way, if anyone else out there wants a podcast, come talk to me, okay? Because we'll make you rich like Peter Jones here.

You're the podcast maestro. But to get real, Gallagher and Gross Save the World has had difficulty attracting sponsors. I know a great one I think you should go to right away. Who?

Like Naughty and Nasty or whatever those... Oh, the sex shops. Yeah. Ooh. Like naughty and nasty or whatever those- Oh, the sex shops. Yeah. You guys are naughty. You're nasty. Go after them. And you know, as revealed-

And you're embarrassed. Look at you. No. Peter Gross has only been under 10 women in his life, where Gallagher's at like 680 or something. He's so cruel. Who? Who?

There's nothing wrong with that. That was cruel. He's providing. You can say it every once. No, that says Peter Gross has been under only 10 women in his life. I meant, I meant.

10 of the finest women, okay? To contrast. It's not about. With Gallagher, I meant. I think the number's closer to 14 anyways. Yeah? I meant to contrast,

compare and contrast with John Gallagher. But if anyone is interested in sponsoring the Gallagher and Gross Save the World podcast, reach out to Peter or myself. I'll hook you up with them. Because I want it to keep going.

31 episodes and they're amazing. I just want more episodes. Every time you release, we do five at a time. And every time you release five, we just shoot up the charts. We've been as high as, I think, number 10. I like that. Now there's another sponsor coming up. Cocaine is us.

We surge up the charts. Speaking of sponsors, I met you both at TMLX5 in December at Palmer's Kitchen. Okay. I found it. That was the first time I met. You know what? I'm trying to remember.

I feel like that's the first time we met, Perry. I believe that was, but you seem to know who I was when I walked in. Well, you know why? Because, well, first of all, it's a small world. Okay. I'm in this circle.

So I know who Perry Lefkoe is. Circle of trust. I was at the John Gallagher book release party at the Cadillac Lounge. That's the one thing all three of us have in common. Myself, John, and Peter the Gross, we've all written books. Did you know Peter wrote a book?

Yeah, My Life as a Cat was cool. The boy who turned into a cat. Of course I know. I have a copy upstairs. It's a bestseller. And I have Gallagher's book somewhere. I noticed that when you came to TMLX5 at Palmer's Kitchen, Perry, you didn't actually give me a copy upstairs. It's a bestseller. And I have Gallagher's book somewhere. I noticed that when you came to TMLX5 at Palmer's Kitchen, Perry, you didn't

actually give me a copy of the 8-0 checkbook. You actually gave me a book. And I posed with it and I'm like, oh nice, he gave me a book. And I pose with it. You know what he does? Took the book back. So here's what happened. I've just got another shipment of books because I give

these books out to everybody. I do the best shilling of anybody who ever had a book published and I forgot to bring it today. So afterwards, we're going to take a picture, me and you, and I don't have the book. So I'll just do the fluty book. Well, I already did it at TMLX5.

Now, you told me you were very familiar with Anthony Petrucci. His family owns and operates Palma's Kitchen and the other three Palma Pasta locations in Mississauga and Oakville. How do you know Anthony Petrucci? Just because we happen to be working out at a gym. I live in central

Mississauga. He happened to be there and he walked... What, you want to leave? Is that what you're asking, the leave permission? Wait, do you have to go, Peter? Why don't you stick around, man? I'm going to focus on him but I think it'd be nice to have you sprinkle, just like Jim McKinney, if you don't mind. I'll hang around for a while. Jim McKinney, another great guy.

Oh, I know. Isn't he? Yeah. So anyway, he happened to be at the same gym at the same time. He walked up to me, introduced himself to me, and I said, oh, great. Thanks for reaching out to me and saying hello.

Never saw him again. And then that was when I walked into Palma Past, and there he was, and nice guy. Very nice guy. Lovely man. Hello, Anthony. He actually has sent over a lasagna for you. It's in my freezer upstairs.

You're going to leave with a Palma Pasta lasagna. I don't know why is his name Petrucci, but it's called Palma Pasta. The mother, the matriarch of the family's first name is Palma. Oh, that's great. Yeah, so Palma, and she's still with us, Palma Petrucci. So Palma and... That's her first name?

That's her first name, yeah. That's a great, what does that mean? What is it? You're Italian, aren't you, Peter? By the way, Cadillac Lounge owned and operated, or run at least by Sam Grosso. Is that how you say it, or Grosso? I'm not sure because I only knew when Tommy Doyle was the,

Tommy Doyle was connected to John Gallagher, who's connected to George Savala, who's connected to, what is it, the... Muhammad Ali. It's the, what's the name of that, brisket's cold cuts or meats, whatever, on, I just, my name's kind of. Shobse's?

No, it's like that. It's, it'll come to me in a sec. Okay, well, that's, those guys, whoever they are, they should sponsor Gallagher and Gross Save the World. By the way, I do have a very pleasant third degree of separation. Lauren Panser, Panser's Deli. Panser's Deli. Which is one of the.

Mark Hebbshire talks, raves about Panser's Deli. And I have a Mark Hebbshire story. Do you want me to tell it now or later? We got to finish the Palma positive plug, which is just to say people, and then right, you go first. I have a couple degrees of separation

between me and Palma. Okay. First of all, in a previous podcast that I shared with you, you gave me a huge frozen box of Palma lasagna. Sensational. Best lasagna I've ever eaten. And my daughter worked at Truscott bakery in Mississauga.

Okay. And not the Truscott funeral home. No, no. Okay. Or the, uh, old age home that my grandmother stayed at Truscott,

uh, long term. Seems to have a lot of businesses. Are we ruining your story? Like Gallagher? They, they had the, for whatever reason, they had their Christmas party two weeks ago

and she said, you can come along. And they had serving this lasagna and it was sensational. And I said, where did you get this? She says, we get it from Palma. No bullshit. This is the best Italian food you can buy in the GTA. I know they paid me to say that,

but I was saying it before they paid me to say it. I will come on your podcast strictly for the lasagna. Take a number. And I like what they did for that open house. Do they do that every year? I wasn't aware. I heard about it through Peter. You walk in there,

you at least get something to eat just for being there. And they must've had what is about a hundred. That's the first time they ever did it. And we're doing it every December. So in December, 2020, I think the first Monday of December, but I'll have more specifics when I find it. I'll also have my next book by then. Okay.

Can I have a copy next time? Don't give me a book just to pose with it and take it back. Listen to this insane story. He thinks that he can write a book about a 42-year-old Zamboni driver who gets called on one night to play golf for an nhl who would believe that should be a movie does it sound like something i put on facebook like you took the every essence except you didn't put the part about the jerks if don cherry was still on the air right how would he uh frame that whole story because it fits it fits

into everything that he talked about. Great Canadian boy. Right. Actually, I want to get back to this. But okay, palmapasta.com. You mentioned the TMLX that was at Palma's Kitchen and how amazing it was. It was amazing.

You were there, Peter. You were getting, what was your butter? Your butt buttered by- Buttered your pancakes. They just made that one. By Mike Wilner, who- Who I know, Mike. I goted by Mike Wilner. Who I know, Mike. I've got a great Mike Wilner story.

It's every story. You know what? I thought you were the best, Peter. I think Perry's the best. I'm not sure. Quick Mike Wilner story. Gallagher and Lefkoe saved the world. You know, if Gallagher's heart gives out, we've got a backup right here, buddy.

So Mike Wilner grew up in Downsview, and he's talking to Nelson Millman, the former program manager or whatever it was for the fan. Program manager. And so Nelson's saying to him, so Mike, tell me a little about yourself. Where'd you grow up? Oh, I grew up in Downsview.

And Nelson says, that's pretty interesting. What street? Searle. I grew up on Searle too. Like what number? It was like, say, 252. That was the house that Nelson Millman lived in. And I used to always say, did you sleep in the same bed?

Like did they leave their beds behind? Now, the reason I'm not like going nuts over that story is because it's been told twice on this program already. Mike Willner's first appearance, it was told, but Nelson Millman also told that story when he came on Toronto Mic'd. So there are some new listeners who might be hearing that for the first time, which is a wild coincidence,

but I can't fake the, you know, oh my God, because I knew that story. What, Peter, oh my, not Grolsch, right? I never call you by your name. What do I always call you, Gross or Grolsch? Grossage. Gross is a beer, I think, out of Amsterdam or something like that. But I have a lot of, I like this guy.

I don't say I love him, but I like this guy a lot. Okay, when you were at TMLX5, I like this guy. I don't say I love him, but I like this guy a lot. Okay. When you were at TMLX5, you not only got the pasta, courtesy of Palma Pasta, everybody should go to palmapasta.com, but you also had a cold beer. Great Lakes Brewery sent over cold beer for everybody.

I thought that was great. I actually have gone a couple times to their... I wrote a story about them once. I was writing a story about craft beers, and Great Lakes was one of the ones I wrote about. Oh, the Bullitt family. Yeah, and... I don't think there's a Palm of Bullitt, though, but Peter Bullitt's...

He's got a great name, by the way. Peter Bullitt, I know. And it's like a porno name, right? Has he heard that before? No, John Gallagher's a porno name, okay? John Gallagher is a porno name. John Gallagher. But here you go.

So you got yourself a six-pack. That goes home with you. That's awesome. Enjoy, enjoy. I feel like it's a game show. I came here with nothing, and I'm leaving with a pasta and some beer. That alone is reason enough to come on this show.

I agree. Also, I want you to take home a Toronto Mike sticker courtesy of stickeru.com. I can't wait to find it. And the book Stompin' Tom, who for a year of his life lived five houses away from me. This is the honest truth. He lived on 242 Searle.

We lived on 232 Searle. We saw this cowboy like walking down the street. We're playing street hockey. I didn't know it was him, but later on, years later, I think I actually did interview uh stomping tom connors was talking to him and i said did your manager live on searle like my brother was into music i thought your manager lived there and he said no that was me he lived

on five hours away from me so this was like and the proof of that is in his book is autobiography he wrote he wrote that he lived on 242 Searle. The facts are indisputable. Just like the facts that I interviewed Donald Trump are indisputable because it's right here in the Doug Flutie book. Okay, hold on. I guess I should show it, right? Because we're on TV.

Is that the way it goes? Get out of the way, okay? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I have a Doug Flutie bobblehead open. So do I. There you go. As well. One of the most creative football players I'd ever seen.

This guy was amazing. Oh, yeah. Amazing, yeah. The only guy I think's close to him is Mahomes. The things that guy does, like just can throw sideways, not even looking. He was only like 5'7 or something. He was about 5'9 and change.

Okay. But, you know, the CFL does not discriminate against size, color, nationality. And that's one of the good things about the CFL. Okay, we're going to get into that too. Yeah, we're going to get into all of this. So you live in Mississauga now. The greatest city in the world.

Why is it the greatest city in the world? It just is, right? There's a lot of people there. Because Peter lives there too, right? I do. I live in Mississauga. He doesn't live near me, thank God. I just wanted to hear his voice again.

You live in a totally inaccessible part of Mississauga. You live near Palmer's Kitchen, right? Yeah. Did you walk there that day? No, I drove. I was out and about with my book, showing it with everybody and telling them, you can hold the book, but you can't keep it.

That's quite the move. At least you gave me a copy. Peter, you gave me a copy of that. I will give you a copy. I'm so sorry. If you invite me back, and even if you don't, I don't care, right? I will get you a book,

because I've just blown an opportunity. Last night, I was at Classic Bowl with everybody showing off the book. Well, I'm going to have you back because this is the only... That's the third plug for bowling, by the way. Can you get free coupons? Yeah, but I'm saying if you have a chance to bring in this guy, it's one of the craziest stories in the world,

a guy who manages a bowling alley, which has become a venue for music and some of the greatest acts. I'm open to anything. It depends how frank you are with future discussions on this podcast. You're milking that, man. If you're frank about the question, if your answer is about my future questions, then of course you're going to be about that.

If I'm going to be frank, I'll have to talk to the angel about that, okay? Did you get that? I got that. Mike, come on, man. Did you get the joke or not? The angel part I'm working on right now oh come on

the Frank part I get okay I don't know you can explain it to me later or are you going to explain it to me right now yeah I'll explain it to you later just think of the last name what it translates to

okay the angel okay I got you now I'm not I don't speak Italian Frank of the angel I don't speak Italian I don't speak Italian

I don't either but I just made it up but I know wait a minute he's coming out of the door right now he's knocking on the door. Who did you talk to me like that? Harness the Frank discussion there.

It's coming. It's coming. Thank you. It is? Yeah. So. Why don't you just have Frank D'Angelo on the show? I'm trying to live.

I'm trying to survive my existence. Why don't you be on his talk show? He hasn't invited me. He hasn't invited Gallagher either. No, Gallagher did the show one time. The Frank talk is coming. The Frank talk is coming. If you have any Toronto real estate questions,

please text Toronto Mike to 59559. The Keitner Group have partnered with Toronto Mike to fuel the real talk, and I sincerely believe Austin Keitner can help. So this is a darn serious call to action. You are good, man. How do you get these sponsors? I'm being sincere. You've got the equivalent of the Wolfman Jack studio

here, right? Is that a compliment? I like Wolfman. I liked Wolfman Jack. Wolfman Jack was great. The movie was great. Yeah, with Ron Howard. Everybody was like an unveiling of stars. Harrison Ford. Yes, you're Howard. Everybody was like an unveiling of stars. Harrison Ford. Yeah, you're right.

Cindy. Wynne Williams. Yep. Vernon Shirley. And who was the blonde girl in the car who later became from Three's Company? Chrissy Snow. No, not the blonde girl.

Not the other one, okay? Think of it. Okay, we've all gone blank now. We only remember she was blonde. Suzanne Somers. Suzanne Somers. But that is Chrissy Snow. Is that her name?

That was the character's name was Chrissy Snow. Richard Dreyfuss was in that as well? It was great. American Graffiti. It was really good. I loved it too. And that pretty much is the reason we got Happy Days. It kind of came out of that.

Like, oh, 50s nostalgia is in. Let's go, let's go, let's go. And Ron Howard's in that too. So, honestly, if anyone out there has any questions about Toronto real estate and they do text Toronto Mike to 59559, that helps the show, but it helps you as well because Austin Kytner is a sweetheart

and he knows his stuff. So I really strongly encourage this. By the way, can I ask a serious question here? I have to meet my parents later on. How long are we going on this? How long do you have? I can cut to the chase here. We're at 41 minutes.

Can we do it at about... Everyone, it's about 90 minutes. Do you have 90? I have 90 minutes, and if I'm late to meet my parents, they labeled me with the name Perry. I'm sorry. Perry Como is the reason, right? I was actually named after Perry Como.

This is true because they wanted me to be named after someone with the letter P in honor or remembrance of somebody in my family who passed away. That's a Jewish kind of tradition, whatever. They didn't want to call me Paul because my cousin's name is Paul, so they thought it'd be Big Paul, Little Paul, whatever. So my aunt, my great aunt, is watching TV. There's a Perry Como special on. She calls me, how about Perry? My mother says, that's great. I'm named TV. There's a Perry Como special on. She calls up my mother, how about Perry?

My mother says, that's great. I'm named after a guy who's Mr. Relaxation. Come on, man. You know, my good friend who goes by the name Elvis when he appears on Toronto Mic is also a Perry and also named after Perry Como. That's true. We talked about that.

Right. And that's an episode, if you want to listen to Perry Lefkoe's debut on Toronto Mic. It's TMLX5. We talked about that. Right. And that's an episode, if you want to listen to Perry Lefkoe's debut on Toronto Mike, it's TMLX5. What a wonderful day. We're going to do that again in December 2020. Everybody should come to that. And that's when I'll have my next book with me. Okay. So you, can I get you out of here by noon?

That's fine. Okay. I just want to make sure I don't get you in trouble if your parents are there. No, that's fine. Now, which story first? Okay. So do you want to tell the Donald Trump story so you don't miss it? You got to go with the big one. Yeah, Donald Trump, when he was owner in the USFL, I think the team was called the New Jersey Generals, right?

I can't remember anymore. Anyway, I thought, you know what? I'm writing a book about Flutie. I'll just call anybody I want and say, hey, would you like to talk about Doug Flutie? I said to my wife, what about Donald Trump? And she says, why not? Take a chance, right? I call up the Trump Towers, and I say I'd like to speak to Donald Trump or Mr. Trump.

They redirect me to his executive secretary. I tell her why I want to speak to him, and she says, leave it with me. Three weeks later, I get a call. Mr. Trump would like to do the interview. He'd like you to send a list of questions beforehand. Friday night, he will call you at Friday at 9 in the morning. So there I am. The night before, I wrote down a million questions.

9 o'clock, the phone rings. It's Donald Trump. Mr. Trump is on the phone right now. Hello, Perry. Hi, Mr. Trump. How are you doing? I ask him a question the first question of the of the many questions as befitting now what he he did then he does now he just answers the question any way he wants to has nothing to do with what i said but i'm thinking

i got donald trump i interviewed him i was about 10 or 15 minutes and they said uh excuse me mr trump has another appointment i go okay thank you very much for talking to me. I ran outside. My wife was by the playground with my kids who were about two or three. I said, I got it. I got Donald Trump. I had it on the tape recorder there, and I played it. It was like I got to speak to the Pope.

The Pope became the president of the United States. I mean, only in America could this possibly happen, that someone who's never been a politician rises up the ranks, punks out every one of the politicians who legitimately should have been president. This guy pulled every dirty player, every dirty trick out of the book to become president of the United States. And I just look at it sometime and I say, in my lifetime I got to interview the future president of the United States. Now I just look at it sometime and I say, in my lifetime, I got to interview the future president of the United States.

Now, that's not bad. I was once going up an escalator at the airport and John Diefenbaker was in front of me. See, that's something Gallagher would say. He tried to usurp the story to make it about him, right? That's exactly why I did it. Did you guys know John Gallagher once lit David Bowie's cigarette?

I didn't know that. Well, that's what he claims, right? But one thing I like John Gallagher once lit David Bowie's cigarette? I didn't know that. Well, that's what he claims, right? But one thing I like about Gallagher, he has pictures of every person. He was way before Facebook or way before social media. Way before mobile phones. Way before mobile phones, right? He was using, what are they called? Was it 35 millimeter cameras?

The disposable cameras, right? Yeah. Every day on Facebook, there's a picture of John Gallagher and some famous person whose birthday it is. Except Gallagher's the only guy I know who had a chance to go to the grotto and decided not to because he wanted to be honorable to his girlfriend. So every time I see him, are you nuts, man? You had a chance to go to the Playboy Mansion

and you decided not to because you didn't want to hurt your girlfriend's feelings. He's a very sensitive, touchy-feely guy. No, he's a touchy-feely guy. He's not sensitive. Jake the Snake had a couple of good questions, but one of them is,

can you take us back to your time before you found writing and tell us the whole story about how you came to know Ms. Lee Ann Lee? That's a pretty good one. Okay. I was working across the road from a place called The Ports,

which is young in Summerhill, and I was just a parking lot attendant for someone who had a gas station, wanted to make some money afterwards when his place closed. So there was a girl that was walking by many times very striking lady young girl and i said i once had the nerve to say hi would you like to go out with me okay so we went out one time it was that nothing happened okay a few years later she happens to be coming here she became a penthouse model, Leanne Lee.

She was like the, let's say, I remember I was working in London, Ontario as a summer student with the London Free Press. There was Leanne Lee, the cover girl. So, yeah, I didn't interview her, nor did I do anything untoward or anything I can talk about. But I did once in my life go out with a girl who became a future penthouse. Peter can top that. No, he can't. This is about me. It's not about him. I've listened to all 31 episodes of Gallagher and Gross Save the World, and there's a model?

Oh, the model that you... Doreen Cole. Is that a real name? I think so. I think so. Now, we're going back 40 years. That's what we're supposed to do do you need me to tell the story again? I want you to tell the story

okay Perry wants to tell it I don't care Jake the Snake I don't know how he found out about this and Jake by the way is a big Flutie fan and he also quickly

just quickly to finish up but Jake he remembers Stephen Brunt coming on Toronto Mic'd and saying the only way to make money in Canada writing books is to write about hockey

and get it out for Christmas time okay so he was asking whether you can how does a football book do? I would say, I would say the majority of the books that I've written, I've not made a lot of money on. But when I was growing up, I had two things I wanted to do. I knew very early on in life, I wanted to become a writer. And I wanted to become a sports writer. And I said, I want to write a book, at least have one book published. And I told this to the late, great Randy Starkman, who grew up in the same neighborhood along with Howard Berger

and a bunch of other people. Rosie D'Amano grew up in my neighborhood for a bit. Anyway, I said, I want to have a book published. So like in 100 years from now, at least people are saying, you know, they're reading Shakespeare. I believe I have to read Shakespeare. So 100 years from now, some kid saying, you know, they're reading Shakespeare. I believe I have to read Shakespeare. 100 years from now, some kid will be talking to the kid next to him. So what are you reading right now?

I'm reading Lefkoe. I can't stand Lefkoe. So that's... How many books have you written? I've written 10. As I said, I have another one coming out. And potentially, I will be working, I hope, with Mike Skor of A Flock of Seagulls on a book about his life.

You know who's in A Flock of Seagulls now? book about his life. You know who's in A Flock of Seagulls now? Gord Depp. And I know Gord very well. And Sandy. And Sandy. She's in A Flock of Seagulls too? Or you just know her? No, she's with Spoons.

By the way, this is the Spoons 40th anniversary, and they're going to be having some dates with the original four members. Someone was on this show whose girlfriend, or wife at the now, was in the romantic romantic traffic uh video and i can't remember who that is so i won't i won't dwell on it too long but uh your most recent book is the ed olchek book right eddie olchek book he hates calling ed which was steven brown who did a 20 minute 30 minute interview with him called him ed throughout he's like eddie vetter don't you know on the first page of the book it it says why he's called Eddie.

Don't call me Ed. Imagine Eddie and Perry in the same interview. The whole interview would be, don't call me Ed, don't call me Perry. Right. Could we do a Perry-Eddie episode of Toronto Mic'd? I could ask him, but he's a great guy. I'm very appreciative that he allowed me to tell his story. We've known each other for 30 years.

And some of the best parts of the book is I'd be interviewing him, and he'd say, just wait a minute, there's a race I'm watching right now. And you look on his computer, he's watching a horse race. He's totally into horse racing, and he's made some humongous scores. And I'm talking like big time. Can you give us a health update? Yeah, he's in some humongous scores and i'm talking like big time can you give us a health update uh because he was yeah he's in great shape right now he is um yeah he's probably right now doing some hockey games getting ready for the triple crown which comes up in in may and um not there was there's two books i've written that mean the most to me. The first one was about Sandra Schmurler,

the Queen of Curling. It was one of the first books I wrote. And people say to me, like, who's the greatest athlete you ever wrote about or covered? I said, Sandra Schmurler. She's a curler. Why? Because she never lost.

When it came to the biggest games of her life, she didn't lose. Her team won a gold medal at the 1998 Olympics. First time Olympics was a gold medal sport as opposed to a demonstration sport. And afterwards, in the commissary or whatever it was, Wayne Gretzky walks up to her and says, congratulations, Wayne Gretzky knows who I am because she was very, very humble.

Her story, unfortunately, two years after she won the gold medal, she passed away of cancer. Primary cancer was never actually known. But I just think the world of her, and I hope in my lifetime that that book will be made into a movie, and it was very close to happening at one point. So I hope it'll happen. And the other one was Eddie's book, right,

just because I knew him, and we could talk about horse racing. And whenever we did talk about horse racing in the book, his personality changed. Like he just lit up, right? Because the guy's nuts about horse. He's crazier about horse racing than Peter the Gross is. Eddie Olchek is legendary for being live on a Triple Crown broadcast, picking a race and having a huge long shot win.

That's really hard to do. This is how he got the job because he was working with NBC for hockey, and his partner, Doc Emrick, was always putting Eddie's picks out there. So they're kind of bugging the head of NBC Sports to give Eddie a shot. Okay, we'll give him a shot. We'll give him like two races. The first race is like six or seven horses. He picks a 10 to one shot.

The second race, which again is about six or seven horse, he picks a 15 to one shot. Because he says, if I picked the favorite, everyone's going to say, oh, great, man, he picked a favorite, but he knew it. Way to go on a limb. He had to do something to prove himself, and that's the way he bets. He goes with long shots,

and then if it's apparent that there's such an overwhelming favorite, his expression is you have to take what the track gives you. I love Dedeo. I mean, he's still a great guy and all, but when he was a Maple Leaf, big deal to me, man. I got to meet him at the old Hockey Hall of Fame that was on the exhibition grounds there, and I got his autograph, and I still have it somewhere in a bin somewhere,

but loved Eddie O. Fantastic. So, yeah, let's do that. The Eddie O. Perry Letko episode. Get on that. I know you have a model. I want to hear the quick version for Perry of you in the model. We never got to this story. Do you want to do it? It was like half an hour ago.

But I had to talk to Madyo because this book is out now. This is just a tale of something. Just make it up. No one's going to say that's not true. It proves something. Okay, so maybe

1970, 1971, and I don't know if you guys have noticed, but I'm a little bit on the undersized shape, body shape, okay? You're fine for a jockey. Yeah. So I'm in this apartment with this stunning 5'10 model

and two other guys, two of my buddies who were six feet tall, and they're hitting on her left and right. And I'm kind of sitting there going, if anyone's going to end up in bed with this woman it's going to be one of the two tall guys and i made the tragic mistake of being myself and somehow two hours later the two tall guys were gone and i'm alone in the apartment with her and etc etc etc and you what Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What happened? Yeah. What are you going to get? Is it going to end the story? Come on, man.

I spent the night having sex with this stunning 5'10". The whole night? I think I woke up the next morning. Hey, Gallagher, way to go, man. All I can say is it was overwhelming. That's great. And there was a second date, too. I think I had two dates with her.

I don't care how short you are, because when it comes to having that intimate moment with a woman, you know what they say. She did insist that... Wait, what did they say? I want you, the Lothario, to say what the expression is. It's not the size of the weapon, it's the fury of the attack. That is awesome, man.

I'm going to write that down. Perry, when exactly were you at the Toronto Sun? I was there from 1985 to 2006. I came in at the same time as Steve Buffery. In the Etobicoke Hall of Fame. That's right.

Have you let Buffery on your show? Yeah, Buffery's been on the show. He's a FOTM. Beezer. That's right. FOTM. Yeah, an FOTM. Somebody on Twitter said it was FOTM.

It stands for something real. And then I corrected him and said, obviously you don't listen to Toronto Mike. And he replied back that I was embarrassing him for not knowing what I, as if it was like serious. Like I was really shaming him for not knowing what FOTM stands for. What is, I don't know. What does it stand for?

Friend of Toronto Mike. Sorry, man. Come on, Perry. You're an FOTM. You should know that. Okay. So by the way, just, we came in there. We were hired by George Gross, who was notoriously cheap.

No relation. No relation to Peter, even though everyone thought they were. And it's funny because Trudeau is now the prime minister. Back then, his father was the prime minister, and George was, God bless his soul, right, was notoriously cheap. So it came time to, like, getting raises, and he had called everybody Kido. He'd go, Kido, my hands are tied.

It's that true though in the six and five. He's talking about wage and price controls. He was great. George was classic because you'd come in there feeling like a million bucks. You'd leave feeling like a penny because you could just bring your right down to size. But the reason that the Torontoonto sun sports department became what it was and what it'll always be is the greatest sports uh section in toronto and among the best in the world was because because george made you work hard he brought it he was like he was like mike babcock he was made you hate him but he made you want to work unfortunately with

toronto mate beliefs they got rid of him they couldn't get rid of George although a year later in the greatest trade in the history of Toronto media George Gross retired and Wayne Parrish came to from the Toronto Star to the Toronto Sun became a sports center John Robertson who thought he had the gig ended up going to the Toronto Star and it was very one-sided, okay? And Wayne liberated guys like me and Buffery. He said, you guys are too young to be here. Get on the street and write. And he was great. Awesome.

I think George Gross is buried at the Park Lawn Cemetery at the Park Lawn in Bloor. And that's where Harold Ballard is buried as well. And Jeff Healy, if you want to see the list of people whose graves I've seen there. Oh, can I tell a Ballard story?

Yeah, tell a Ballard story, but then make sure you don't forget to tell the Mark Hebbshire story because I spent a lot of time with that man. Hebbshire was big on horse racing, harness racing. His favorite horse was a horse called Abercrombie. So I know this because I worked for one summer

at Camp Northland in the kitchen with his brother. And then later on, I got to know Hebbshire and again, Hebbshire. And again, Hebbshire was a stall mate, to use a horse racing term, of Jim Taddy, one of my nearest and dearest friends in the business.

Because he's a, if you ever watched Being Frank, he was like the, he was the Ed McMahon, maybe? Like Being Frank? Well, I don't know how much he wants to remember that Well, I don't know how much he wants to remember that, and I don't know how much I want to remember that. But anyway. I never saw a guy look more embarrassed when the camera clicked on him than Jim Taddy on that show. And you know what he said then, and he'll say it now?

People say, why would you work for a guy like that? And he says, because every two weeks, the money was there. And in our business, when it comes to freelancing, sometimes the money isn't there. No, you got to eat. People take advantage of other people, but that person is, whatever he did, he always paid, right? Now, the price was your soul, okay?

But at least he paid. I got to get to the Frank stuff before you tell me your parents. I already gave you enough about the guy. Like when I come home or I listen to this thing, there'll be every curse word in the book will be coming at me. But it was a point in my life. I did work for him as did a few other people. I have moved on.

I think I told you that day I was paroled. That was my line. I said, so I'm free. They let me out of jail. But do you miss the every two weeks money? I don't miss anything about that. I have to, for once in my life, I have to be serious. Yeah.

He did me a favor. I did him a favor, right? I got him a lot of top grade talent. Through the point of time that that talent kind of was diffused or muted or mutilated or whatever the word you want to use, right? I was gone and I don't know who's there right now. No idea. And is there a dollar figure that could bring you back?

No. There's no figure that could bring me back. He's got some PTSD, I think. Wow, I really... And I know you're trying not to get... You're trying not to get murdered? Like you're being very... Where are you going with that?

Because I think I know where you're going with that. You're way out of line, son. I didn't say anything. You're way out of line, okay? I never said that. I just said I worked for him. It was a point in my life. I've moved on.

And I remember at that, the Palma Pasta thing, where it was brought up. And I think you said, didn't you used to work for Frank D'Angelo? And the people there laughed their heads off i couldn't believe it like that name was powerful that's a very powerful brand but people are starving people really want to know what it's like to work with frank d'angelo

like what is the true story like you said you wouldn't do it there's no price that would bring you back why not like because he swears a lot. Like, what is it that, uh, you call it parole? Like, why don't you want to work with Frank anymore?

Like, I'm going to come home tonight and there'll be a price on my head for everything I'm saying right now. I worked for him. I've worked for a lot of people that I probably don't want to work for anymore. So I'm not going to limit it just to him. Okay. Okay. Well,

I'll leave it. But the money was there. Toronto Sun then. Okay. Do you want to shout out anybody else? What was it like working with Christy Blatchford? Could you share a little Christy Blatchford story? The only Christy Blatchford story I can say is that I was new to the Toronto Sun.

I was young. I was naive. I was kind of enthusiastic. Didn't really know much. Back at the time, the Toronto Sun had an annual Christmas party. So it took place at, I think it was it was like molson brewery that word some place along lakeshore whatever so we went out there and um i'm sitting there with my wife all of a sudden these buns are being thrown around the room with with a fair degree of like of velocity yeah well like a dave steve

type thing or whatever, right? It's a heater. So like, holy, where's the stuff, right? And then it happens again. I noticed Christy Blatchford is the one that's doing it. I say, Christy, you almost hit me. And she goes, welcome to the Toronto Sun. And she was pissed out of her mind, right? But I mean, when you think of icons in terms of just all-around superstar reporters,

she'd be there. Rosie's definitely up there. Heather Bird at one time, there was three or four of them that were just so dynamic. I have texted Rosie DiManno, who I don't think I've ever met, and said, hey, man, I loved your story today. I got four new words out of it, right? Because this girl has a command for the words

like nobody's business. And I said to her one time, I got a book about Eddie Olchek. Is there any chance maybe you could write something about her? Sure. About him? And she did. She was honorable.

Because I've asked other people, there's a certain high-profile person I asked that said he was going to do something he never did. Who's that? I won't mention his name. Give us a clue. I won't mention his name. I us a clue. I won't mention his name. I'll just say that in this business,

which could be extremely heartbreaking, you find out very quickly who your friends are and who the people you think are your friends are just acquaintances. Man, okay. Now, anyone else at the Toronto Sun, though, because you talked about Beezer. What about Steve Simmons?

What was it like working with Steve? Next question. No, no, no. Steve is pound for pound the best calmness I've ever been around. And I've said to people lots of times, if I was to start a newspaper and had my choice of one person in the sports section, it would be him. I've never seen a guy work as hard as he does, right?

I've never seen a guy work as hard as he does right i've never seen a guy that can laugh like he does and be kind of embarrassed about things that that happened to him right but he's just you know some columnists believe that their job is to just show up write something and leave that's never been simmons he works and he does stuff people don't like him but that's what or don't like his writing that's what a columnist is supposed to do you're supposed to have an opinion you're not supposed to just write some story that's just about writing and there's a couple of columnists

in the Toronto right now that just seem to write stuff that has no actual you know meat to it I won't mention their names oh you're not mentioning names get out of here no lasagna for you now Steve Simmons is he an example of one of those personalities that hasn't yet been weeded out of the mainstream media?

Like he's still working, writing for The Sun or The Sun Media or Post Media, whatever the hell it's called now, Post Media. Yeah, he's, I'd say there's very, very few people left in, well, I would say if you want to look at Rosie, she's every day working her butt off and putting stuff out there and getting people annoyed, pissed off. But that's what you're supposed to do.

You're supposed to do that as a columnist. There's very few people like them anymore. And yeah, Steve, when he decides to hang up his computer typewriter, whatever you want to call it these days, right? He won't be replaced. Well, that's been the Sun move, though. People move on and they don't get replaced. That's been the move of Mary Ormsby. Mary was one of the first female sports reporters.

Can I ask you, okay, so she's married to Paul Hunter. Paul Hunter, yeah. Right. Who were, I might as well just say, they were both scheduled for Toronto Mike in January 2020. And they kindly asked to postpone it because of stuff going on at the place of work. And then I was told that they're done this summer. Like apparently they're already done right now.

So they're no longer writing. No, I believe they took the biome. And like I said, what a power couple. Paul Hunter wasn't just a very good reporter-writer. He was very good at taking photos. Really, really good. He was a two-way guy. And those guys for sure don't exist right now

because now they have you take one of your, you know, smartphones, take a picture, whatever, right? I do that a lot myself for various jobs I do. But Mary was absolutely amazing. And whenever I needed a favor from her she came through right it's just a i actually replaced her at the sun she had she decided it was time to leave planet gross and uh she got a gig with the star and man oh man is that she is she is an amazing lady uh an amazing reporter writer even if she's not doing that anymore.

I just think I have absolute, total respect for that woman. I definitely want them both on the show as they were planned. I got to reach out now to Paul and see if I can get Mary and Paul back on the show. I didn't realize they were already done because I was told they'd be done in the summer. There's a bunch of them that have left,

as I understand it. Peter Howell. Peter Howell, for sure. He came on this show. How did he fit in here? Isn't he about eight feet tall or something? You know, Leo Routens fit in here, so I- I heard that story about Leo Routens in the paper the other day,

about the back problems he had. Yes, yeah, yeah. Wow, that's phenomenal. But you know what? I'll give you credit, man. I'll put some more butter in your pancakes. Yeah, let's go. I need butter.

You get the guess, man. I like maple syrup on my pancakes. Me too. Why are you still here? No, because I tried to leave and you made me stay. I just like, I get comfort looking at his nice eyes. He's got that smile.

It's like, you gotta love that smile. Because you know, behind that smile, it's been in a lot of places. Did you ever tell the story about how you got the gig with City TV? With Moses? Well, it's not true. Oh, the cab story?

The cab story. Moses never got in my cab. Okay, well, it's just fabricated. Is the pool story, is that true? Yes. Well, tell that story. I don't mind sharing my time with him. If Perry wants to tell that story,

he's the guest, please. Very early on, I was driving taxi. I would drive the one city television cameraman around because their van broke down. And I must have jumped in front of the camera a couple of times to do interviews. So Moses took a little interest in me. And he said, I'm sending you to, it was the Inn on the Park at the Leslie and Eglinton. I'm sending you to, it was the Inn on the Park at the Leslie and Eglinton. A guy that Moses knew was promoting, it was actually a cross Canada race. Any way you could drive or snowplow across Canada, whatever vehicle you use.

And this guy was having a belly flop contest. So he said, go cover that story for me. So I wore my only suit. it was a three-piece suit this is 1975 and we we did shot upon shot of people doing belly flops and so i told the cameraman i'm gonna do my extra on the diving board and then i'm gonna jump into the pool so the extra was something and so the cross-country race will not a flop. And I jumped into the pool. Okay, so 45 years later, that's like ho-hum. But no one had ever done that.

No reporter. It's not ho-hum because that will never fly again. That type of ambition, that type of craziness, zaniness, you did what you had to do and you got yourself a gig. That was instrumental in getting me. craziness zaniness you did what you had to do and you got yourself a gig most but i would say that was instrumental in uh getting me uh and and the good news is that a few months later when moses decided to give me a full-time job they hired me in the fall of 1976 for 7800 a year and did you tell the story about how you got a raise and moses said that's not enough you're the guy that's paying your paycheck says that's not a big enough raise.

Is that true? Well, kind of. Kind of. You really want me to tell this one? We told this before in an episode. I want to hear it, but I honestly think I've probably heard this eight or nine times. I'm going to really make it. Shook hands with the news director on a raise that would get me to $45,000.

I was very happy about that. Stephen Hurlbut. No, it wasn't Hurlbut. Gallagher hates him. It was very happy about that. Steve and a hurlbutt. No, it wasn't a hurlbutt. Oh, because Gallagher hates him. Hates him. It was actually a guy named Gord Haynes, and he's not at fault here. He comes back to me two weeks later and says, those figures we tossed around won't do.

I said, we didn't toss the figures around. We shook hands on end. He threw his hands up in the air and says, no deal, no deal, no deal. Several weeks later, he offers me $55,000. And I said, you know what? I like that amount, but I want an increment for a second year on the contract. He said, that's it. That's the end of the conversation. A week later, Moses calls me down to his office and he says, what's the problem? And I said, well, your news director shook hands with me on a deal for $45,000. And

Moses looks at me and says, so you think because we welched, he actually used this language, he says, because we welched on the deal, you think you're entitled to more? And I said, yes. And he said, I agree with you. And within 30 seconds, he said, look, how about $55,000 for the first 18 months and $60,000 for the next 18? And that's how I ended up getting about $25,000 more than I shook hands with two months earlier. And when I went to George Gross with a similar story,

he said, Quito, my hands are tied. It's that intrudo in the 6 and 5. To Moses' credit, back in those days, he wanted to pay his, quote, TV stars good money. What's your relationship with Moses like today? Could you get him on the phone? No, nonexistent, nonexistent. Well, I think he's being a real recluse.

I think he's very, very difficult to get hold of. I actually phoned AM740 trying to beg them to hire me a couple months ago. And I said to the woman, is Moses ever in the office? And she said, well, he's here sometimes, but he's very hard to get hold of. Well, I'm just thinking the Zoomer network and Gallagher and Gross Save the World would be a marriage made in heaven. But anyway, I didn't...

Can I give a... Yeah. Because I know I've given myself X amount of time to tell this story, but the person who does the Gallagher and Gross intro is Mae Potts. Well, there's three now, but she is definitely the original. We rotate.

So anyway, Mae Potts. Well, there's three now, but she is definitely the original. So anyway, May Potts does the hosting for the annual concerts at Classic Bowl in May where all the money goes towards Ronald McDonald House. So there's the connection. There's always these six, what is it,

like six degrees of separation. Kevin Bacon's in the room somewhere, right? Right, right. He's my next guest. Is he? No. He needs work. Oh, Rick Hodge is my next guest.

I don't have any Rick Hodge stories. Is that what they call them, Hodge? Yeah. Except on SCTV, remember the Hodgey D. Robertus? Remember that one? I'm an SCTV guy. You don't know that guy. It was one of many characters on SCTV.

I was trying to remember the SCTV character who does that comatose version of Perry Como. Oh, yeah. I will survive. That's Eugene Levy. Is it Eugene Levy, not Joe Flaherty? No, it's not. Joe Flaherty does the Guy Caballero stuff, right?

Yes. Oh, no. And also, what's my shoe size? Everything about SCTV is funny because some of that stuff actually happened later on. When is the Scorsese doc coming out? He said he had to stop working on it to focus on Irishman. By the way, have you finished watching the Irishman?

It's the longest movie in history. It's a great movie, but it's like a typical... The Irishman's only about an hour longer than Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, but why does it feel like it's 10 times longer than Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? Because it's a De Niro-type thing. He says a line, and Pesci says the line back,

and then they go back and forth 10 times. It's the same line. All right, I had a bunch of places I want to go to there. Okay, I don't know. At some point, I need to get a story from you perry about these wwf wrestlers like vince mcmahon okay i'll get to him yeah and by the way when we do this can we conclude with a promise again just so i can go out of here and just be emotional yeah um uh there was a guy by the name of carl de marco who was the general manager of the WWF at the time, wing of the WWF, whatever, right?

So I faxed him things saying, I'd like to interview Brett Hart or do a book about him if he'd be interested in doing it. A year later, I get a call, and somebody's interested in me doing the book about Brett Hart. So I met Brett, and Brett was the version that you see on tv or you saw was a ramped up version when it's talking to me and him it's just hey perry how's it going like

yeah right very very kind of quiet and and just almost modest or whatever word you want to use right so we did the book together the book was intended to be brett was going to reveal everything in the history of wrestling he was going to name names and everything that he did what happened was vince mcmahon who i i interviewed by the second time that wrestlemania was here in toronto uh they had had a kind of a feud that goes back to the famous screw job in montreal 1997 right yes so vince wouldn't give him the uh his images or any photos ran like that so we didn't have photos and then brett decided because at that time he was injured i think bill goldberg kicked him in the head it may have even happened in toronto

and brett was uh was out of action for a while and then he decided you know what if i write everything i want to write about these guys, when I get back in the ring, this time it won't be an accident when they kick me in the head. It'll be for real. He decided not to do it. So we did a book, but it was really a fan book, nothing amazing. About 10 years later, 15 years later, he wrote the book.

And it was explosive because a lot of those guys, when they're on the road, they're doing drugs, they're doing alcohol. He did John Gallagher, if you get what I mean, right? That was his release, right? He didn't get messed up on drugs or alcohol. He made use of his time with what Gallagher does when he's got some time in his hands.

Oh, you're talking about ladies. He was a Lothario. That's the word I gave. Because originally I said cocaine. No, no, no, ladies. He was a Lothario. That's the word I gave. Because originally I said cocaine. No, no, no, no. He didn't do drugs. It was all in the book there. He did the version of Will Chamberlain.

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yes, he's probably right up there with Gallagher with those numbers. You know, he's the only, not Gallagher, but Bret the Hitman Hart is the only WWF wrestler to ever appear on The Simpsons. This is true, right? And again, in his character, in his time, he was one of the best wrestlers because he had to work hard to become a heavyweight, the face of the company, because he wasn't a big guy.

It was always about these huge hulking guys. Right. But Brett wasn't like that, but he really embraced that role. And unfortunately, he embraced it too much to the point where when he was offered a chance to go to the WCW for like, I think it was like three million a year, whatever at the time,

he didn't want to leave. He wanted to stay, and they were doing a documentary about him at that time called Wrestling with Shadows. Unbelievable documentary. The greatest documentary because it actually explains vince mcmahon kind of lying to him and and the screw job and you're actually seeing it was real so

brett had a line called the the thin veil uh the thin vein of reality which is when people say it's fake and he goes it's not it's that thin vein of reality how close it is to real life that was it and so many other things in wrestling you know brett when his brother owen died was one of the saddest things that ever happened and brett said you know what he took a stand i i want to side with my family with my brother and i i don't want to get back into wrestling eventually he did get back into it and got back into the wwe but you know uh phenomenal guy it was one of the greatest, even as I talk about it now, I can't believe I had a chance to do a book about Bret Hart.

And in a nutshell, the screw job in Montreal was basically Bret Hart was going to go out as a champion, right? Like he was supposed to win a match. And, you know, we talk about being fake. That's kind of the wrong word. Really what we mean is it's predetermined outcomes. So Bret Hart was supposed to win the match. It was agreed that he would go out as a winner. He would in front of the home crowd you know he's a canadian and

but they took it from him i guess they called a three when it was a two what happened was basically that they were worried that he was going to take the belt and go to the wcw and they wouldn't have the belt which another wrestler had done so vince wasn't going to take that chance so he said to sean michaels okay here's what we're going to do right you're going to put him in the uh in in the sharpshooter brett's signature move and hebner dave hebner earl i'm sorry earl hebner one two three and that's it right right so this is what was supposed to happen there was supposed to be that sean michaels would put him in the in the sharpshooter brett would get out of it, and then they'd have what's called a schmoz, right?

All the wrestlers would come in there and there'd be all this craziness in the ring. It never happened, right? Because he screwed him, right? And then Brett spit on Vince and actually went into the dressing room and hit him. And this wasn't fake, right? All that's...

Well, that wrestling with Shadows, which I originally saw, I think, on TV Ontario, but then I have found it like a bootleg somewhere. It's really kind of tough to track down. It is unbelievably good. That's a fantastic book. Because it's real. That's how the fake wrestling, that's the reality of wrestling.

For sure, for sure. Now, Toronto Sun, why do you leave the Toronto Sun? I feel like my life is coming back to haunt me here. I was offered an amazing contract by the Canadian Football League to be their head of communications. At the time, Tom Wright was the commissioner, and there was a real divide between the media and Tom Wright, and they wanted me to come in there and maybe, you know,

just bring it closer together. Like a linchpin. No, just create relationships, right? And I did that. As a matter of fact, there's a gentleman by the name of Dave Naylor, or David Naylor, whatever he calls himself these days, yeah, right? David William Naylor. So David William Naylor was never happy with the responses he'd get from the commissioner

or the fact that he wasn't allowed to even talk to the commissioner. So I said to Tom, like, one of the first things we're going to do is we're going to let Dave Naylor talk to you and you'll ask whatever question he asks you, you'll answer, right? As truthfully as you can. So of course, after the Tom Wright press conference, two days after I'd've been hired they announced he's leaving right i'm thinking okay great right i said to to david braley david's any chance maybe you could give me a month so i can just get used to this no tom right is stepping down whatever right so sure enough like 15 20 minutes after it's over dave nailer calls me up and goes perry dave nailer i go dave man it's me man you don't have to give me your name i know who you are right well you know what i've been talking to some people and uh i don't think you

know what was said today is actually what happened i says you know what dave i'll give you a chance to talk to tom and you could ask him whatever you want i did it the next day in the paper tom there's a big story but tom writes leaving and tom writes says that's not bad that's pretty good because i gave Dave access. And one of the things I tried to do when I was, uh, when I was there is, is just create that, that relationship between the CFL head office and the reporters. So it would, it didn't have to be a divide. Uh, it just didn't work out for me. I wasn't that type of person. I just didn't like, It just didn't work out for me.

I wasn't that type of person. I just didn't like making up stories. I like writing stories. You're a storyteller. I'm proud to say I am a storyteller. I'm not a story fabricator. That's what press releases are all, fabricating. God help the person who invented the word engage because I've read that word.

One time I read a press release, the word engage was mentioned four times, right? Connect, man. Just use the word connect. But anyway, that was my time in the CFL for a year. What happened after that? At some point you ended up at Sportsnet, right? I went to work for Sportsnet. Right away, Jim O'Leary, who used to

work with me at the Toronto Sun, hired me and says, we want to write CFL columns. I said, okay, whatever. I was working there and I got opportunities. I started writing about UFC and I got interested in UFC and wrote some other stuff as well. And it was kind of sports that was going through a transition. But anyway, I worked there for about five years and. And you did some curling stuff too, right?

Cover some curling stuff. Yeah, but it's something that I covered curling for a long time for the Toronto Sun, and I actually understand it. I can watch it and know exactly what they're doing. I think Peter's falling asleep. He fell asleep on the air at 680, and that led to his eventual demise. I thought it was something about putting a person in kind of a headlock or something like that. I beat the crap out of a WWF wrestler and it was unacceptable.

That's unacceptable. I think that should be very acceptable. You sucker punched Pinball Clemens once, right? I did. No, you didn't. I wrote about Pinball. Yeah, that's why I brought it up. Okay.

Okay. So you're covering CFL and you're doing all this stuff for Sportsnet. And then why does it come to an end at Sportsnet? It was just a mutual parting of the ways, or I think as the press release said. Sounds like a press release. The press release said he's pursuing other opportunities. He's no longer engaged.

When you read that, you can understand what it's about. We've parted ways. Wow. Yeah, I mean. More and more broadcasters and their bosses are mutually parting ways, left, right, and center. It's funny. I think it happened the other day with a young woman from Sportsnet, right?

Ashley Dawkin, who has been on the show. Who was... Do you know what happened there? She vanished. Well, I mean, yeah, they did a show, and I think it was Thursday might have been her last show. She did the show, and then she got told, your services are no longer required.

Yeah, and the two people that are running it right now. Mike Zigomanis and Scott MacArthur. And I think Scott MacArthur should be put on a pedestal for deciding that he wanted to reveal himself as being homosexual. And all the problems that he went through. I thought this guy was, I still think he's one of the best young people, broadcasters sportscasters in the business and i didn't know the hell he was going through because he was having

trouble you know with he knew what he was as his sexual identity but he he was how is a big tall masculine guy and finally he just put it out there and i thought that took a lot of courage and i'm happy for a guy i'm happy for anybody who's struggling in any form of life, whether it's with mental illness or whatever, and they're having a hard time with it. I think it's great when they're able to talk about it, when they're able to get support. And I don't care whether it's people.

People in the media seem to have a lot of problems. There's a lot of people who are struggling with mental health. People in the world. It's not just media. I only know the media, and I know that sometimes it can be very difficult for people. I didn't realize how many people are coming out and saying they're dealing with mental health.

But I think anybody who's struggling with any type of problem, whether it's sexual identity, addiction, whatever, if they're able to get the help that they need. I thought you were going to say sexual addiction. You're talking to Gallagher again. I don't think it's an addiction. I think that's a way of life for him, okay? Hey, no judgments here.

That's right. I salute John Gallagher, who I call Lothario, and he didn't know what it meant. I explained to him what it meant, and now he has a word, okay? I like how John Gallagher will never type any by the way those are wonderful sentiments i didn't mean to stomp all over them with my gallagher joke here but yeah absolutely and scott mccarthur uh having the courage to be a proud gay man in sports media i believe he's the first canadian sports media personality that i know of

at least male who uh has come out as homosexual. I can't think of anyone. Again, if you saw Scott McArthur, this guy looks like he was chiseled. And I have because he was on episode 399 of Toronto Night. You know what, man? Or 499. No, I don't know. One of those two. Have you had everybody who's anybody? No. Don't be modest now.

Bob McCowan hasn't been on this fucking show. He hasn't had Moses. I don't think he's been on very many shows since his departure. There's been a few. I hasn't had Moses. I don't think he's been on very many shows since his departure. There's been a few. There's a few. I haven't had Moses. Yeah, Moses I've been trying to get. I can't get him.

And there's a bunch of people I haven't had on, actually. A lot of people still left to get to. But Perry, I'm going to have to get you back. Now, is this hole I have to meet my parents, is that real? Or can I keep going a bit longer? I would say, let's... Can I want to just... I have to meet my brother,

who's a famous concert promoter. What's his name? Elliot Lefkoe. He was here for a week. And my brother started out as an indie concert promoter in Toronto. Now works for Anschutz Entertainment Group, which is the... Philip Anschutz owns the Los Angeles Lakers.

And when Michael Jackson was going on tour at Oz, where they're going to book him for 50 dates there. Right. So my brother's working there at the time. When Michael Jackson passed away suddenly, they're thinking like, well, we've put a lot of money into this. How are we going to get our money back? And some of the people in the, how would you call it?

The bean counters, right? came up with an idea. We'll take the footage of Michael Jackson and we'll make it into a documentary. It was brilliant. That was a, I don't care what you think about Michael Jackson, that documentary was fascinating because it really gave a good indication. And what was your brother's role in that?

He wasn't involved. He was there. My brother has he's interviewed about anybody who's anybody. Morrissey was here not too long ago. Morrissey is a very difficult guy to promote

because he has a habit of sometimes not showing up but he was there and I got to meet Joe Cocker through my brother. Leonard Cohen. My brother was the one that got Leonard Cohen back again. Somehow or another, my brother met Leonard Cohen, and Leonard Cohen lost a lot of money because his manager or whatever,

somebody disposed of his money, whatever. For legal reasons, I don't know what to say about this, right? But he needed money, and. I don't, for legal reasons, I don't know what to say about this, right? But he needed money. And my brother got him going again. And I remember that Leonard Cohen, always when he was doing his music, he wore like a suit and he wore a fedora. When I saw my brother the night that, I think it was Hamilton we saw, my brother's wearing a fedora and a suit.

I said, why are you doing that? He says, because he wants everybody around him to kind of be like him so after the show was over we went to the dressing room and there was Leonard Cohen's fedora and I thought how perfect he's not there but the hat's there

and that's as close as I was going to get to Leonard Cohen I got to see Joe Cocker and it was like Joe Cocker man I get to talk to got to see Joe Cocker. And it was like, Joe Cocker, man. I get to talk to the guy. And Joe Cocker was a little guy. And he was wearing like jeans that are like designer jeans. And I said, oh, man, that's not.

Joe Cocker has a duet with Sass Jordan that is on the Bodyguard soundtrack. Well, there you go. We sold 30 million copies, by the way. But Sass only got $20,000. And that was it. That happens. I got to meet, I don't know the name, Jim Carroll, if that means any basketball diaries. Oh yeah, basketball diaries, of course. All my friends just die, die. Right. And so my brother used to bring Jim Carroll in like every month. And Jim Carroll, God bless his soul, he's no longer with us, was about six foot four, six foot five, bright red hair. So I pick him up at the

airport with my with my my brother and jim carroll sitting in the back seat there right in front of the rear view mirror so every time i look in the rear view mirror i see jim carroll and jim carroll started telling stories about stuff that happens in new york and the underground and all that stuff and it was like really and he wasn't telling it just just to tell a story he was just telling a story right so i've been very fortunate again as i'm gonna start crying as i hear this song to meet guys like like andrew and and uh and clive and jim carroll and and uh and i hope to write that book about Mike's score. It'll be amazing. See, if you need a friend, this is my go-to song, right?

When I need to feel emotional, I put this song on. And those guys love it when I put the fact that I'm crying when I'm listening to the song. But music can do that to you. I don't think it... You know what can do that to you? You're such a softie. How about a bet when you score a bet? Do you ever get emotional? No, no.

It's that scene in Rocky where his wife, Talia Shear, wakes up after giving birth and she was in a coma and she wakes up and she says, win it for me. That's when I cried in the movie. Okay, so you know what? Thanks. Thanks for playing the song

and I'm sorry I'm getting emotional just because this song means so much to me. And like I said, I can't believe I know these guys. These guys are amazing. They're so down to earth. As a matter of fact, Clive bought the book, paid for it, because I think it was some member of his family had been through three or four times cancer,

and he wrote about it, and he was one of the first persons to put stuff on Facebook, whatever it was, on Amazon. Thanks, Clive. Perry, thanks for doing this. Thanks for coming to TMLX5, and I finally got to meet you, even though we had crossed paths at the Cadillac Lounge. We never actually met. Peter, I'm sorry, we're keeping you from your nap, I think.

Well, you know that earlier this morning we laid down an episode of Down the Stretch and we talked about 1% ownership of a horse. Thrilled to have 1% contribution to this particular podcast. And I was one of the first... It was at least 3%. I was one of the first persons to write for Peter's publication, Down the Stretch.

I think it was the second publication. I gave him some ideas. Peter, I got a great story. Can you cut it down to this length? But it's a sovereign story. I don't care. I don it was the second publication. I gave him some ideas. Like, Peter, I got a great story. Can you cut it down to this length? But it's a sovereign story. I don't care. I don't have room for it. You're writing about cars and stuff for the star.

I write about cars. I know a lot more about the car industry in the last four years through a friend by the name of Norris McDonald. He used to be the wheelsetter for the Toronto Star. Right. He was a great friend, a mentor. I'm thankful for all the people that have helped me in the business

because it matters because this is the craziest business you'll ever be in. Like I said, you'll find out very quickly who your friends are. Good people like Peter Gross, John Gallagher, and you. Whatever his name is. Gallagher, sorry. Because I was going to mention your name. And you're Mike Boone. Okay.

And by the way, can I mention my wife, Jane, Lady Jane, my two kids, Ben, the king, and Shana, who is the great one. I call her Gretzky because she is the great one. But my son, he is the king. It's like an Oscar speech. I love it. Perry, honestly, what a pleasure. And you're going to be back.

You're an FOTM. You're one of the good ones. You're a great character. You're going to be back. Your most recent book is the Ed Olchek book. Eddie Olchek book. I have a book coming in the fall. I'm not allowed to talk about it until it's real, but it's going to be significant. Is it about Toronto Mike? Exactly, and hopefully

someday I get to write that Mike Score book, and maybe I'll bring one of these guys in here with me. You'll get a chance to interview Mike score. I would love it. I got to do some homework and find out who he is first. Now, Peter singer,

the flock of seagulls, you goof. I know. I can't wait. I got it. I'm going to grow my hair just for that. Now, Peter gross,

uh, before, Oh, I have real, my own music too. Peter gross. Again, down the stretch.

If you want to know about Ontario horse racing, you've got to subscribe to Down the Stretch. I think it's a fantastic podcast. You do a great job writing it and hosting it. Thank you for doing that with me. But also, Gallagher and Gross save the world. If anyone out there wants to sponsor that program and keep it going, it is amazing content.

There's nothing like it. There's 900,000 podcasts, but Gallagher and Gross save the world in a category of its own. There's nothing like, there's 900,000 podcasts, but Gallagher and Gross saved the world in a category of its own. There's nothing like it. Nothing like it. And Perry, thank you for telling John Gallagher and Peter Gross they should do something together. That's you. I'm happy to help anybody. And I hope one day to do a podcast myself and I'll do it with Sherry Ford. Okay. We've talked about doing something. Is she Toronto based or is she out west? She's in Mississauga,

the greatest city in the world. Well, I'm going to get her on Toronto Mic'd. I'd love to do that and produce that podcast. And that brings us to the end of our 589th show.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mic. Perry, which of your many burner accounts do you want to promote on Twitter? P. Lefkoe? P. Lefkoe is fine or you can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Perry, which of your many burner accounts do you want to promote on Twitter? P. Lefkoe? P. Lefkoe is fine or you can follow me on Facebook. You'll find me. Just do Perry Lefkoe and

you'll find him. You'll find me and Leanne Lee wherever you are right now. Thanks for that memory. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U.

The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group. K-E-I-T-N-E-R for Keitner. And Banjo Dunk is at Banjo Dunk. And he's speaking of Moses. He's at Zoomer Hall on April 16th, 730. It's the Whiskey Jack presents stories and songs of Stompin' Tom. Perry, you've got the book. Thank you both for being here.

Peter Gross, Perry Lefkoe. Peter F. and Gross. Give me some love, man. All right. See you all later this week with Rick Hodge. I'm a much better man for having known you.

Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up. Rosie and Greg. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.