Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Pete Crighton: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1688

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

In this 1688th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Pete Crighton, author of The Vinyl Diaries: Sex, Deep Cuts, and My Soundtrack to Queer Joy, about his lively memoir of sexual awakening, music, and discovering one's true self. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Yes We Are Open, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1688 of Toronto Miked. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Yes We Are Open, an award-winning podcast from Minaris, hosted by FOTM Al Gregor. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. It's May 7th. In four days on Sunday May 11th

we're collecting at Christie Pitts to witness history. It's the home opener of the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. Join me there. RecycleMyElectronics.ca Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Building Toronto Skyline, a podcast and book from Nick Ienies, sponsored by Fusion Corp Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today making his Toronto Mike debut, it's Pete Crichton. Hello, Pete.

Hello, Mike. Thanks for having me. No, thanks for being here. And thanks for moving this earlier in the day. I don't even think I talked about this on the podcast, but a few weeks ago, my mom fell and she broke her shoulder. Okay, yeah, we got to look out for our moms. Like I got the call, like she's literally like, I've fallen and I can't get up. I got like, you know, one of these classic calls. And then actually my wife took her to the emergency room because I was recording toast. That was the night it was.

And then bottom line, then the next morning she had to go into the fracture clinic. We had to get there at some ungodly hour. Like I think we had to get there at like 6 a.m. or something. So I took her to that. And then there was a follow-up appointment three weeks later and then they want to see her again today. It's a part-time job.

Yeah. Yeah. Listen, these things are serious. But I'm not an only child. Don't even get me started on that. So that's passive aggressive communication through podcasts. Okay, Pete? I get it. I get it. But how are you doing? I saw you had like a limousine or something bring you here. It looked really fancy. Like like is that your limo? It is not my limo.

I was quite surprised when he showed up this morning, but the kind folks at Penguin Random House Canada sent a car for me to get out here, which was nice so that I didn't have to battle the traffic in the morning. Penguin's a big deal. To me, that's a big publisher. Yeah, yeah, the biggest, I think, in this country.

Okay, well yeah, pardon me, that's the biggest. Now I'm holding in my hand like an advanced media copy. I have actually read this book, so I'm gonna shout out the book right away and we're gonna have a great chat here. But the book is called The Vinyl Diaries, colon, colon's not the word, colon, okay? It's the grammar colon. Okay. Sex, deep cuts and my soundtrack to queer joy. I read this thing and as I'm reading it, it is so personal. What a personal like a memoir you're sharing every little detail in this book. Every little detail. Yep. It's terrifying. Well, it didn't terrify this guy, but I was like, wow, he's really like, he like pun intended. Pete is an open book here. And I felt like I kind of lived precariously.

I enjoyed actually, I quite enjoyed living precariously through you for this period in your life. But my first question off the top before I share this way we're actually kind of connected, there's an FOTM connection, which I'll talk about in a moment, but why did you decide to write such a personal book? And again, for the listenership, when they pick up the vinyl diaries, it's very, very personal. Why?

First of all, I'm thrilled to be an FOTM finally. Okay, you know what that means? Did anyone tell you? Yes, yes. What does it mean then? Friend of Toronto Mike. Oh, I changed it. It's now flavor of the month.

With Palma's kitchen pasta. Okay, did you know you're getting a lasagna? I did not know and I do love lasagna. So that is thrilling to me. So no one tipped you off. I literally got a delivery yesterday. It's in my freezer right now. I have a Palma pasta lasagna for you, Pete.

Can't wait. Okay. I need dinner tonight, So do you like beer with your lasagna? I love beer with my lasagna. What about fresh craft beer brewed right here in Southern Etobicoke from Great Lakes Brewery? Nothing better. Nothing better. That's going to pair with your lasagna. Okay. Okay. More gifts later. But why did you write the vinyl diaries? Why did I write the Vinyl Diaries? I think, you know, I spent, as the title suggests, I'm a queer man, and I grew up in the 80s and 90s when HIV AIDS was decimating our community, and it scared the crap out of me.

And so I hid for a very long time, and I had a very difficult time sort of accepting my true identity and after hiding it for 45 plus years, I just decided to finally be as transparent and as truthful as I possibly could be in writing this book. Okay, I have questions here. Firstly, when you were growing up, some of these are gonna be silly questions from this boring straight guy who's just naturally interested. But I did read the book and I'm curious like when in your life do you know I'm a gay

man or I'm gay? Goodness, pretty much right away. You just, for me anyway, it was an obvious thing. You know, even before I really understood sex or sexuality, there was a sense of like, oh, this is I'm different than everybody else. You know, OK, did you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm? Parts. OK, do you remember the kid who wanted the sewing machine? And then the Larry David said he was gay. And no, and then the mom was like fighting it because there's no sexuality

This is just a kid. There's no sexual preference at all and Larry said he's pre gay Oh, that's an interesting idea. Yeah. Yeah, so even before you might be, you know attracted to men You you were pre gay. Yeah I definitely wanted like my friend Stephanie had the Farrah Fawcett Charlie's Angels doll and like I wanted that doll so badly, but I knew even to Say that out loud wouldn't mark me as someone else as different Yeah, and that was trouble because you needed to like be societal norms. You're a boy you play with trucks for sure You like hockey.

And I know Toronto Mike likes hockey. And that was just not my thing. So interesting. And it's interesting that you're saying you wanted the Farrah Fawcett doll when, although the guy's a little older than me, I kind of missed this era, but it was heterosexual guys wanted that poster on the wall. Sure, sure they did. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, well, flash forward a couple of years and I had like the Pechmo posters on my wall and cutouts of Calvin Klein ads from GQ magazine. Okay. Thinking that was okay. No one would know. Very interesting. So you talk about you have a couple of years on me, but I also grew up in this era. There was were AIDS, right? I know I don't want to quote the What's the movie? Everyone has AIDS. What's the? American police no Police yeah, Matt Stone and Che Parker. Yeah insane insane man. Did you enjoy that flick? I loved

South Park deeper longer uncut Longer, Uncut, which I had never seen an episode of the television show. Like Satan was kind of hot in that, right? It was so ridiculous. Honestly, God, I almost had to leave the movie theater because I was laughing so hard. I felt Team America was not as worthy, but it had its moments for sure.

But it did have that great sex scene though. The epic puppet sex for sure was pretty funny to watch. But let's spend a bit of time here before. And again, in a moment, I'm going to reveal how we're connected. So don't even say the C word yet, because we're going to kind of save that for a moment here. But what is it like to be a gay man?

You kind of touched on it and it sort of sounds like it caused you to repress some of this somewhat for 45 years you said. But what is it like to be a gay man in the time of AIDS, where AIDS back then was a death sentence? Like what, that sounds traumatic to me. It was, there was absolutely nothing, no other word for it. You know, I was 16 when Rock Hudson died of AIDS,

which was sort of like the major landmark of public awareness of the disease. And a couple of weeks later, Ricky Wilson of the B-52s also died of AIDS, less publicized for many years, actually. So that was sort of like a clue. I was like just coming into like, oh, I'm 16. I think I like boys. Or I pretty I know I like boys, but I don't know how to talk about it. I don't know how to think about it. And all of a sudden, it just seemed like we had no representation of gay people in popular culture at that time. Like it just didn't exist. And all of a sudden, there's gay men everywhere. And they're all sick. They're all dying. And I'm just thinking to myself, holy shit,

not only am I gonna be ostracized because I'm gay because my friends are all gonna dump me because that felt real, but if I actually choose to act on my desire, I'm gonna get this horrific disease and I am going to die. Like those outcomes were real to me. Horrific because, you know, heterosexual, queer, gay, it doesn't matter.

When you're young, you're horny, right? Sure. Yeah, that's a fact. Yeah, that is a fact. And that's gotta be scary as shit because you're afraid to express this because you don't wanna get AIDS and die. Like you're hearing about it in the media. And there was there was let's face it let's call it what it was but there was a lot of AIDS panic at the time totally yeah it was irrational definitely and so

much of the communications we were hearing like how do people get it like it just was so confusing no one had answers and there was real hysteria in the press about what was happening. Okay, so pre 1997, because I'll make a big reveal in a moment, but pre 1997, did you have any gay friends? Did you hang around any other guys or gals who were queer? Almost no. It's funny, I just, it was so deeply rooted in me to not Express or explore my queerness that I almost exclusively hung out with straight people So really no were you at this time? Are you in the closet?

Like are you I don't know when a hot chick walks by are you the guys and going like a piece of that? No, no, no, I didn't play that game ever, actually. I think I came out like the foggy now, but maybe 21, 22 or something like that, which was pretty normal at the time when kids come out at like 12. Now I'm astonished. But yeah, I would definitely. Well, you know why they do that? Because no one beats them up. Well, maybe they do. But less less of bullies beating you up in school for being gay. Definitely. They still do. But sure they do. I caught myself there.

But there's better support systems in place now for sure. It's funny. It's funny. And I'm going to get back to that. But when we were growing up, so I, nobody was, and I'm thinking now, great eight, let's go with great eight. Okay. In grade eight. Now I, looking back, there was definitely a gay boy in that group. And I won't name him. His first name started with C and I definitely gay. Like as I look back, obviously gay.

But remember, this is an era where people thought Liberace was straight. Like there was this like blind eye for the queer guy. Even for sure. Can I write that down? Blind eye for the queer guy. Even for sure. Can I write that down? Blind eye for the queer guy, yeah. I kind of like that. But so the whole idea looking back that everybody thought Liberace was,

or even Elton John, people thought was straight and et cetera, et cetera. But nobody would come out as gay. It wasn't even like, of course nobody was gay in school. Nobody would dare to do that back in the 80s. In school never. Oh my god, no. Yeah.

But today, just to bring that up, I have two older kids who have been through they're both well, one just wrapped up university one is a year to go and they grew up they knew openly gay kids in grade eight. Mm hmm. Commonplace now. It's great. I'm amazed by it. It but that born at the wrong time, right? Totally.

That was not an option when we were younger at all. OK, so pre. So let's talk about 1997 for a moment here. Sure. And let me thank the person who introduced me to you. So the person who introduced me to you, Pete, and then you were surprised I had a copy of your book because the person who introduced me to you does Pete, and then you were surprised I had a copy of your book. Mm hmm. Because the person who introduced me to you does not yet have a copy.

When does the Vinyl Diaries, Sex, Deep Cuts and My Soundtrack to Queer Joy, which is a lot of music, a lot of sex and a lot of details about your life, which I thoroughly enjoy living precariously through. But when exactly can the public buy this? The public can buy it on May 13th. Can you pre-order or something? Absolutely. Anywhere. All the good places have pre-order links. And the Penguin Random

House Canada page has an awesome shop local button. If you want to support your local indie bookstore, they can bring it in for you. How do you get hooked up with the biggest publisher or whatever? A lot of people come down in this basement and they wrote a book and it's a great book, but it's either like pseudo self published or it's through one of the very small publishers where there's some deal or you some deal, but whatever. But how do you end up? Is this your, is this your first book? This is the very first thing I've ever written. So, okay. Yeah, it is. So this is going to be an interesting chat, everybody. But how the heck do you end up getting your first book

published by Penguin? Penguin Random House, I guess they merged or something. Yeah, there's a bunch of different labels under the big banner, but I won the lottery, honestly. It just, it was through a friend that I had known a really long time and through just exchange on Instagram actually, she works at Penguin and was looking to make a connection

with a different friend of mine. And I said, well, listen, I'll put in a good word for you, but you got to publish my book first, which is a baller move, which is not who I am. You got some swagger. I don't. But in that moment, I found it. I don't know how.

Okay. Well, to quote stars who I read quite a bit about, I love stars. I've been on the two main have been on, but when you have nothing left to lose, you set yourself on fire. Yeah. And the flame, that's what that move is. Yeah. And Torque has a lovely quote in the finished book, actually.

He did a little blurb for me. OK, Torque Campbell, F-O-T-M Torque. And also that line I just quoted from Your Ex-Lover is Dead is Torque's dad. Oh, is that right? Who was a great Canadian actor. I did not know that scene. I'm learning. This is great That's straight from the horse's mouth torque told me that okay, okay, so

Yeah Yeah, so you you had a ballsy movie said publish my book first Yeah, she said like oh, can I read this thing first? Yeah, she said send me a proposal which immediately I googled What's a publishing proposal? and using yeah and Just, through pure chance, I mean, it got me in the room and the works book for itself and it's a long story, but end of it is they said yes. I have, this is episode 1688 and I've had so many,

long form, interesting conversations with so many interesting people, including the person we're gonna drop in a minute you meet in 1997. I have a book in me. I have a Toronto mic'd book in me. Sure you do. It's gonna be a long book,

but if Penguin wants to reach out, we'll talk. I don't know what the deal is there, but okay, I don't wanna steal any of your thunder because that's amazing that you, first at batch, you kinda hit a homer here. I'm very very lucky and I don't take that for granted. Okay so now let's before we talk about this book which really focuses on I guess you're like 45 to like 51 or so is that what you say? Yep. See I'm proving I read the thing. Yeah, you did. 1997, you took an improv class.

Yep. Was that with Second City? Sure was, on Lombard Street, where they had the old fire hall. Yeah, because they're now at York and... Somewhere, funny, yeah. One York or something like that, across, yeah, because my wife works at RBC,

and it's like right across the street there. Shout out to Bingo Bob, who just took the improv class at Second City. Okay so again before I name the person you meet in 1997 who is an FOTM let me shout out the person who introduced us and is looking forward to reading your book maybe she's got it on pre-order I don't know but shout out to Leslie Taylor. Yay Leslie Taylor we love Leslie Taylor. Okay so now I will tell the people that in 1997 you meet Carolyn Taylor, correct

Yeah, the Carolyn Taylor. Yeah of Baroness one sketch show. I have nothing Whole bunch of fun shows up in a lot of things. I haven't seen it yet But I heard from Leslie that she's in like the new black mirror Season she shows up. Yep the first episode I know like my kid will be like my youngest will be watching some piece of no offense to Carolyn, but some piece of crap thing on Netflix with witches and stuff. And it's like, oh, there's Carolyn Taylor. Like she shows up in things.

Yeah. Yeah. OK, so you meet Carolyn Taylor and what you become fast friends. We become fast friends. Absolutely. There is just an immediate draw for me. I mean, I think many people are drawn to Carolyn because she's just such a dynamic and fun person to be with.

And I guess she saw something in me similar. And yeah, within I think a couple of months of us even meeting, we were both living in the same building on College Street. I need to talk about that building, actually. So I need to talk with the daily for a moment. So first, I got when you meet Carolyn Taylor, is it correct that she is in the closet? Yeah, yeah, that is true. Your book suggests that you're meeting her.

Yeah, you say in the book. Yeah. And she is presenting herself as a heterosexual woman. I guess so. Yeah, I think your book buddy is in my book. But the lawyers go through this. They did. Carolyn read this. It's in the car. And has read it. That's not a guess. That's a fun fact.

It is a fun fact. Yes. Because you meet your first queer friend. Yeah. But who's technically not queer yet, who technically hasn't come out as queer to you. It's almost like you had gaydar or something. Yeah. Yeah. I think we both kind of locked eyes on each other and we're like, OK, is that a thing? Like, can you meet a guy and just have a very straight and that's a pun intended there Like have a chat about politics or something and know if they're gay or not pretty concretely Yes, let me test you. Am I gay? No, because I have a

I have some weird listeners because whatever and there's a stalker weird listener who tells me Encoded in my episodes. I am a closeted gay man. Interesting. And one of the pieces of evidence he presents, and then I don't entertain this guy. I don't like these weird listeners. I like the good FOTMs who come out to these TMLX events who are great people that make my life richer and better. That's what I like. But this person said, one of the clues is that I married a woman of

Asian descent. Oh boy. And this is an encoded closeted gay man thing. Is that true? No, it's ridiculous. John Lennon started that trend way back in the 70s. Right. Oh boy. Okay. So there's some problematic dusty old dinosaur headless out there yes ignore that but let's get you to so 795 college okay mm-hmm a recent guest of mine was is a jet an a musician whose real name is Michael O'Connell oh yeah yeah he lived in apartment 8 right right so it's all coming together here's a little few mind blows here. So Michael O'Connell, I know him as culture reject.

OK, this is the name he uses for the music. And he had a song, a particular one song called Inside the Cinema, which was sent to me like, I don't know, oh, eight, I guess, like around 2008 or something that I that has appeared on all my because much like you, I love music and music kind of interweaves into everything music and sex are the two best things right p I believe so I I'm gonna second that okay second that emotion okay so I tracked down many years later because there's only 2025 I decided to find out who is this culture reject and then I found out culture reject works in Toronto

and would come over and we had this great chat and we dissected inside the cinema and I learned he was living at 795 College and I know that's the place you know Carolyn Taylor lived and famously because it was in the Toronto Star for goodness sakes but you guys were renovicted. Yeah, I had left the building by the time of the renovation. So, you know, I had a window into that entire pretty terrible process, but it was not impacted directly. Thankfully. OK, you were out by then. I was out by that. Can you think this sounds like kind of a neat building in this city where some wild artists were living, not just culture reject,

yeah, not just Carolyn Taylor, not just you, but is there anyone else that like a fame that was living there at the time? Aurora Brown from Baroness also lived there for some time. Sure, another big name. Mike, of course. Yeah. I'm trying to think of any artists who moved through. Well, that's okay.

That's pretty amazing. Yeah, yeah. it was incredible. It's one of those great old buildings in Toronto that I feel like are disappearing every single day, where it's just an eight unit, four story walk up. Yeah, it's the missing middle, they call this. Sean McAuliffe has been writing quite a bit about this and Ed Keenan as well, that this city has rules

make it very difficult to build the mushy middle. Like you can build the single family dwelling or whatever like you're in right now. And you can build the big condo developments and the big high rises and stuff, but that mushy middle like you're describing there is would go a long distance in helping with our housing crisis.

Totally. And when we were there, it was so affordable. It was just stupid even at the time to be perfectly honest, but you know, we took care of that building. It was our home and it wasn't just a faceless condo building. We knew the landlord. He was amazing. And we told Peter Lee, our landlord, never rent an apartment. We will find someone for you. So that was sort of the thing we had going for like 10 years was just like, oh my God, apartment five's moving out. Let's find someone. So we just filled this building with friends and other people we knew in the community. And it just, it, you know, it's

a book into itself for sure. 795 college. Let's get that thing going. Yeah. Or at least some kind of like a streaming show or something about 795 College. Yeah, or a Toronto landmark plaque on it, you know? It was a really, really special time in life. I got ideas for a whole bunch of those historical plaques

that the city puts up. Like, I want one where they recorded the video from an adult now. Great. Yeah, but the pursuit of happiness like that. That parking lot is where the new mech went. Oh, no. I know.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The one beside the bamboo where they're so like I have like there's so many like and we did we talk about them quite a bit on this program, but these these spots that are like Toronto, cool Toronto history that the that mean that whoever is in charge of these historical plagues is kind of overlooking. Agree. So we'll get one at 795 College. Yeah, please.

Yeah, do your best. All right, so, and I was thinking about this episode, like I just wanted to chat you up for like an hour, but I don't want to like read the book with you, right? Like, so, okay, so I guess this maybe in 2000. So you dated a guy in 2000 for 11 years. Oh goodness. Yeah. Yeah. This is true. Brad. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You wrote about this, Pete. Okay. I'm not reading your private diaries here or whatever. So you date. So I guess I'm wanting to bring us to where you have this kind of reawakening and it's told in explicit detail in this book,

but because of this AIDS fear and your upbringing, were you thinking that you needed to have long-term monogamous relationships? Yeah, 100%. That was sort of the goal, I think, for me, and a lot of people of similar age to me was just this idea of marriage, like getting a marriage in a partnership with someone and being a monogamous

thing. And that would be safe. J-Ho who's the official Toronto historian who's going to join me tomorrow, by the way, he's my next guest. He comes over every quarter tells me Chris Bateman is in charge of the heritage Toronto plaques. Okay. Jeremy has been working with Chris and provided some content for an old Firehall plaque that he's working on.

So we now have our target. We got to get that plaque under development here. I think so. Yeah. Okay. So basically, did you have a, can we talk about sex for a minute? Sure. It's a lot of the book.

Let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about you and me. You want me to keep going? Yeah. So let's talk about like it again. I'm going to speak of heterosexual terms. It's all I really know. But the intercourse like was there a. Did you have a rule of like like so blow so blow jobs and hand jobs and things like this would be okay, but to actually have intercourse, am I using the right terminology

even? I don't want to ask. Okay. Intercourse with a guy. Yeah. Did you have to have a, this is, we are a committed, monogamous, long-term relationship. Was this like a rule set you would live like for safety's sake? For sure.

For me, and I, you know, I can't't speak for anyone else but for me that feels absolutely true. You know even in the early days of AIDS that we'd like a blowjob felt dangerous we weren't sure if that was a transmittable act but anal sex we 100% knew so that was sort of like a forbidden thing for me and it was sort of like got tied up into that heterosexual idea of like being a virgin till you get married. Like, so I kind of had that idea in my head that like this was absolutely forbidden until I was in a committed and monogamous. And we talked about that. And that is how I played it. Was that Brad?

Yes, I guess it was Brad. Okay, there you go. 11 years with Brad. So hopefully he got, you know, to home base. Yes, that's a long time. It is a long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stranded on third. We did not wait till the 11th year, that's for sure. All right, so tell me why things, why does your mindset change in this regard? All right, so tell me why things, why does your mindset change in this regard? I guess just slowly being exposed to a queer world I didn't know existed and that was partly aided by Carolyn and her circle of friends, which was a real eye-opener to me. You know, I think when I first started going out to gay spaces or gay spots on Church Street or some of the clubs around Church and Yonge Street,

it just was all this really shitty music. I'd like dance divas and disco remixes of these awful pop songs. And every time I'd go out, I'd be like, maybe this time I'll have fun. And I just never did. And I never connected with sort of the monolithic gay scene for gay men at that time

you know and I think while I was with Brad there was this whole revolution in Toronto around like the Vaseline parties and Wilmenro parties and they were really raunchy and rock and roll and had live music and you know he brought up ESG and all these amazing artists Nina Hagen came to Toronto because of the Vaseline parties And I missed all that but if that was available to me when I was sort of trying to find my gay life I would have locked in so hard, but I was busy playing married house with my Eleven year relationship, but then this influence of Carolyn and her friends by the way reading your book makes me just jealous I'm not better friends of Carolyn because she seems to throw a lot of parties We've mellowed a little bit in our age, but no, but oh and then another party and then she you know

Oh this time this birthday she had whatever this time she rained it in for like her 20 closest friends Like it's just all these Carolyn Taylor parties. Yeah, they're pretty fun. I mean Leslie can tell you You had a lot of her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When does when does Carolyn come out of the closet? Oh, golly, not long after the beginning of the book.

I don't think we chatted about this when Carolyn was over. Interesting. She didn't have she only had so much time. Yeah. She's had you know, she had the I have nothing was coming on. Crave. Yeah. And of course, Baroness Von Sketch.

And there was this we had a lot of ground to cover in a short period of time. But and I think all because she didn't write a book about being gay. I didn't feel like, yeah, you got to have her back and have these conversations with her. Well, you need to write a book about your gay gay sex life. And then that says, oh, interviewer, you are permitted to go there. That's not personal ground because you made this very public at this point. Yeah, because I don't normally ask guests about their sex life Yeah, no, I guess not Maybe you should have Randy Druzen who was over yesterday I was fascinated by because she she turns out she's a lot older than I thought she was I thought she was like two Years older than me and it turns out she's several years older than me, but we had a great chat But she's a single woman who's had many many relationships looking for love but she's with somebody but they're two hour commute away so it's very complicated whether this will stick or not but I was naturally curious about her life as a woman in her 50s a single like it's just that's a that's a world I

don't know and I was I asked her a lot of questions but I wasn't asking her like when do you start having intercourse like I didn't get into the nitty- gritty here because she hasn't yet written her book. Her memoir. The Vinyl Diaries, okay. Yeah. So think, Carol, this influence you just decide now

to like get around 45 years of age, you decide you're going to stop fearing AIDS and live the life you want to live as a proud gay man? Yeah, I mean, it wasn't that easy, but in a nutshell, yeah, that's kind of the idea. I think the idea of me being in this monogamous relationship, playing house, mostly hanging out with straight people, sort of worked for me for a while,

and then I just realized I was really not looking at my own self and really not exploring a part of me that really needed to be paid attention to. When you're writing this book, any details you think, oh, that's just too personal or did you just put it all in there? You read it, man. I did. Because now you know what I'm thinking about. I'm reading it and you know, I bike through Trinity Bellwoods Park all the time. Okay, this is a, you know, I'm closer to Hyde Park and I do stuff there, but Trinity Bellwoods Park all the time. This is a you know, I'm closer to High Park and I do stuff there, but Trinity Bellwoods Park is the cool park.

OK, especially when it just is. OK, it's the cool park. And I think that's where the cool kids are hanging out. And then I'm reading about you and Dave OK, and Trinity Bellwoods Park. And I'm like, OK, that definitely is cooler park than than High Park.

But don't you be so sure. But that's like when you start this this period of your life. Yeah. And I don't even want to find out where you're at now because I have I have a moment I've saved for the last segment to talk about where you're at now. That's just to give you a heads up.

But you just start living life and it's all in this book. Yeah, it is all in this book. You know, no one was more surprised than me to discover at forty five start living life and it's all in this book. Yeah, it is all in this book. No one was more surprised than me to discover at 45 that I had some kind of sexual currency or that people found me attractive at all. Because that was a story I had never seen before.

You didn't think you were good looking? Well, no. People do, definitely. Cam Gordon thinks he's good looking. Yeah, I bet. I bet. bet he deserves that but I think in you know, popular culture we sort of this idea that people turn 40 and they're like sexual agency is over like and

I just believed that so I was shocked when people wanted to hang out with me and have sex with me Absolutely. She had to make up for lost time? I definitely made up for lost time. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. Tell me about the apps, okay, like Grindr for example. Mm-hmm. When did you dive into that world? That was pretty early in the journey of trying to discover some sexual activity.

And it fueled definitely most of the connections. Grindr and there's an app called Scruff which is slightly has a different demographic slightly older slightly more polite. Yeah and I you know I was shocked at how easy it was but which surprised me even more was how deep some of these connections were very quickly. Sometimes even the same night we met. Um, I think once you open yourself up and have sexual Congress, is that the word? Um, I think, yeah, sure. With someone, um, it's sort of like it levels you and allows you to talk about other stuff

in your life. Cause you've already like opened up in this really intimate way and Then if you're lucky you have a beer with the person and it just so many times it opened up this incredible Dialogue and incredible connection with another person. It was it was quite beautiful really and during this period in your life You're loving it loving it. What's not to love? That's not love. So the book, yeah, there's a lot of sex in the book. We talk about your, like almost like your sexual awakening and, but there's a lot of music in this book. So on our way to talk a bit about the music, there's a copy, a vinyl copy here of Road Apples, the tragically hip. And of course the tragically hip have the bad house.

Please tell me how you ended hip have the bad house. Please tell me how you ended up at the bad house and how long you were there, what you were doing there. I know this brings back Carolyn Taylor. She's threw out this book by the way. I should count the Carolyn references, but please I want the bad house story. And I also have a song loaded up. Okay. Okay, great. Um, yeah, the bad house was crazy. We ended up there in 2019 or I ended up there in 2019, or I ended up there in 2019, because Carolyn Taylor was hosting an album residency for 18 days at the illustrious bath house in Bath, Ontario. 18 days.

18 days. I don't know how she landed on that number, but that was the magic number. And she had invited a number of different artists to come and participate in making this music record. So people who don't know, Carolyn is also a musician. She's a multifaceted artist, and she has an album coming out later this year. And so there were many, many different musicians invited, and I am not a musician, but she invited

me to be sort of a writer in residence and I was blown away by the invitation. And of course, there's no chance in hell I'm passing that invitation up. Yeah. So what is it like? Do you live on the premises? Like, where do you where do you sleep? Yeah. So for 18 days, you're just there. Yeah, 18 days. I can't remember how many beds are there but she had this like hand drawn map of who's coming when and who's roaming where. But for most of it I was in a bedroom with two beds with my friends Serena and we'd sort of like tuck in at night and be like good night Serena good night Pete what a great day we had making music. It was incredible. It was like queer camp for witches. I have a 96-second song here.

Before I play it, set us up. What are we going to hear here? Oh my god. OK, you're going to do it. This might be the first. I'm going to do it all right, Pete. Yeah. This might be the first airing of some

of the Untitled Carolyn Taylor Project album that will be coming out later this year. And this is a truncated version of a 16 minute track where what is this in Indigada de Vida? Basically, we didn't know what we were doing. I was invited to read a story in the studio and a group of musicians would improvise and that's all we knew. So there was no planning this. There was no like thinking about

what the chord progressions would be, what the beat would sound like. It was just sort of like, okay everybody, let's just go. So what you're about to hear is 100% improvised off the floor. And it's me reading a story about going to my very first concert, which was Adamant in 1983 at Massey Hall and introducing said artists to a beautiful young boy man named Dustin who was 23 years old at the time and so we just jammed and this is what came out

okay let's listen 96 seconds Who's doing those breaths? That's Carolyn doing the breaths. The very first concert I saw in my life was on February 13th, 1983, Adamant at Passy Hall. I was a 13 year old kid in grade 8 8 headed downtown with his best friend to see his very first real life concert. Funnily enough, it was at the exact peak of the popularity of Adam for This Side of the Atlantic. His highest charting single, Goody Two Shoes, in its best chart position, number 12 on Billboard's Hot 100 on February 12, 1983. Both he and I were celebrating that night, I guess.

I think the penny dropped that night. This is what I want. Not just rock and roll, not just the wild abandon. I wanted the man in leather pants And the drums, the column response The drums, the drums, the drums Wow. So that goes on for 16 minutes. There is a 16 minute version available. That bassline's got a bit of a white stripes thing going on there. Yeah, I hear that. Yeah. And also I want to shout out future FOTM, although he's dealing with the loss

of another FOTM. We lost an FOTM named Mark Nathan earlier this year. Mark Nathan passed away. And Marin Kaddell. Oh my God. I loved Marin Kaddell. Yeah, Marin Kaddell. Marin, Marin, you know, tomato, tomato, but that's got a vibe like that, right? Marin Kaddell would be talking about the sweater or whatever. then there'd be this music underneath and this could be in that vein. I think so, yeah. I loved that record and I am thrilled that Marin is coming to the show.

Yeah, this is thanks to Mark Nathan, but then Mark Nathan passed away. But Marin, is Marin or Marin? I butcher names like it's my job to butcher names, but say it again. Well, Marin Caddell, but maybe I'm pronouncing it wrong. Yeah, only because I was married to a Taron. Uh-oh.

But Marin. And I'm pulling information out of my brain. Okay, wait, Marin Caddell. And the Sweater song was everywhere. Everywhere. And that includes much music and stuff, and this is a good segue to music. So, okay, so this new Carolyn Taylor album, is that the only track you're gonna appear on? There's some other where I'm like chanting. I'm part of a cat choir in one song But yeah, mostly that's like my featured track if you will

But if there's four sides of vinyl record. 33 songs, I think, is the final run. It was a very productive 18 days. I was gonna say, what is this, a change of heart smile? Like how many tracks are you gonna jam on there? Okay, but again, you're artists, right? And the whole idea that this is not like typically, like when they hip record, right?

They work it out, they've got it kind of, they got it down and then they're gonna record their parts or whatever. But this is, like when you guys arrive for this 18 days, is it fair to say nothing's written? Correct. So it's all written during this retreat of sorts, like this artistic musical retreat or whatever,

and then recorded. That's very interesting. I feel like when this does come out, that's when Carolyn returns. Absolutely. Yeah, you 100% have to have her back. By any chance was May Martin on this trip? May was not on the trip or the album. I think they were probably just too busy being May Martin. Okay. But you got to know May through Carolyn.

I did. Yeah. Yeah. Because May's a going concern. May is very much a going concern. Yeah, yeah, because May's a going concern. May is very much going concerned. Yeah, absolutely. You know, they've gone from being this weird kid who would show up to all Carolyn's comedy gigs at Second City to being this international comedic superstar. And the aforementioned I Have Nothing, which is you were you were witness to the the birth of this, right?

This is a routine before it became a Crave series. You were witness to the birth of this, right? This is a routine before it became a Crave series. You were witness to the birth of this bit about figure skating. Yeah, for sure. I had a front row seat to all of that. And I remember her doing the bit at a comedy show the very first time and thinking, holy shit, this is beyond a comedy bit. This is going to be something really big. And so it was just fun to watch it grow and grow

and snowball and snowball and then become this amazing show. And May Martin's in that. May is on that. And May and Carolyn are musical collaborators in that show and in life. So it's a bit of an odd thing that May wasn't there. And you know who else is in the I Have Nothing?

Leslie Taylor. Leslie Taylor, of course, I know. Let me give you homework. There's a father's day 2024, which is almost exactly a year ago. We did a special Father's Day episode where I had Dave Van Horn, who was the voice of the Montreal Expos. He joined us remotely from Florida and Carolyn was here. Not Carolyn. Sorry. Carolyn. Although I feel Carolyn should have been there because Carolyn's

siblings were on this program. So Carolyn's brother Chris joined. Yeah. Chris joined us remotely from I guess Montreal and Leslie was here in the basement because she lives in Toronto and we talked about Ross Taylor and this is a Father's Day special that I'm going to urge you to listen to. Great. I think you would thoroughly enjoy it. How about his sportscasting career? The expo stuff.

Yeah. Because Dave Van Horn worked closely with him. So, and I think you'd be interested as a friend of Carolyn instead of a friend of Dorothy. Well, both those things. I am. Yes, you are a friend of Dorothy and you're a friend of Dorothy. Mm-hmm. Well both those things I am. Yes You are a friend of Dorothy and you're a friend of Carolyn. So that's just homework for you. Okay, I Have more music I want to talk to and then I know exactly how I want to close I'm learning a lot from you, but I learned a lot more in this book here

But I want to give you courtesy of Ridley funeral home. I want to give you a measuring tape. I love that. I Always need one and now you got one and now I got one finally and it fits in my pocket all coming. This is great It is all coming. You got to ride in a limo or whatever the heck that whatever that you didn't have to pay for that, right? That's right. I know I felt like a rock star Why don't you really want a joyride sure after the content a pink right and where we can take your mom to a appointment You know what? Thank you that cuz cuz I'm a st.'s guy, like I break lots of bones and stuff and I had a clotting disorder. I have all these things. Well, not too many things. I don't want to sound like I'm sickly or whatever,

but I have some things and broken bones and I have this blood clotting thing. And it's always at St. Joe's and I can always bike to Parkdale and it's great. But this broken, my mom's broken shoulder, it's all happening at, um, the Mississauga Hospital at here Ontario and I'm gonna get this right. Yeah. What is that Dixie? Where's anyway? Bottom line is Trillium or whatever they call it. But it's like I feel like I'm in a whole different country. Like I'm like, oh this is different. This is like a modern

hospital. St. Joe's. It's like, oh this just happened. This is a hundred years ago. Yeah. Did you know quick? So we're gonna say thank you to Ridley Funeral Home. Indeed. But before paramedics and EMS was commonplace, I guess that started becoming a thing in the seventies or whatever. Before this period, it was the funeral directors that would drive like their hearse things to if you had a car accident, for example, and you were on the side, you were injured or sick or dying or whatever from this car accident, it would be the funeral director that would pick you up and bring you to a hospital. Did you know this? Yeah. So pre pre paramedics and EMS and that kind of thing we have now in the ambulances we take for granted. Now the funeral director would do that. That's fascinating. It's fascinating because it's such a conflict of interest. Like it's in the- I'm going to drive really slow to the hospital.

They'd make like 20 bucks or whatever for that, getting them to the hospital, whatever. But if that person were to die or not make it, they theoretically could sell the family on doing the funeral services with them. And that would make them much more money. Fascinating. Fascinating.

Okay. So shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Mm hmm. This speaker, Pete, speaker, it's a wireless speaker. It's from Minaris. OK, with that speaker, you will subscribe and listen to season eight of Yes, We Are Open. OK, so this is Al Grego, who this time he went to Regina, Saskatchewan. But he collects these inspiring stories from small business owners and then he shares them with us and it's very well produced, very well done. Al Grego is a great FOTM.

We'll see Al Grego at TMLX 19 on June 26th at Great Lakes Brewery from 6 to 9 p.m. I chatted with him today. He's confirmed to attend TMLX 19. You, Pete, you're invited to this as well. him today. He's confirmed to attend TMLX 19. You, Pete, you're invited to this as well. Great. Palma Pasta feeds you. You get your first beer on the house and we hang out at Great Lakes Brewery June 26th. But Al went to Regina and visited Gloria Walsh, manager of Creative Kids, a charitable organization dedicated to removing financial barriers for Saskatchewan

children aged four to 19 to participate in arts and culture. Isn't that wonderful? That story is in season eight of Yes We Are Open. Okay, can't wait. Okay, I want to shout out Nick Ienis. He's got a great podcast called Building Toronto's Skyline and he also has a new podcast called Building Success and I can't wait to record with Nick on Friday morning. So much love to Nick Ienis who stepped up to fuel the real talk. Recyclemyelectronics.ca Pete, if you have a drawer at home full of old cables, maybe a closet with old phones or devices or electronics that don't work anymore,

don't throw it in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill. Go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Got it. Put in your postal code and find out where. Can drop that stuff off. You got it. Amazing. You're good. And last but not least, and this is a time sensitive important announcement. I mentioned it in the intro, but I'm going to revisit it now.

Toronto Maple Leafs baseball have sent you a book. Bless them. On the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. They play their games at Christie Pitts, at Christie and Bloor of course, and their home opener is Sunday. The first pitch is scheduled for 2 p.m. We're all collecting, we as in FOTMs, we're all collecting beyond the left field fence for 1.30 p.m. on Sunday. Come on out, free event obviously, because we're going to witness history because there's

this Japanese woman who's going to start for the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team, and it'll be the first time in this country. A woman has played professional baseball against men. Isn't that interesting? I love that TMLX 18 is what I call this. It's happening Sunday at one thirty be there. And I'm serious. Be there. OK, OK okay so back to

music I'm gonna ask you about Dolly Parton oh please yeah sure and the Tennessee Mountain homos yes classic band I read that name okay please tell me about your obsession with Dolly Parton and this choir called the Tennessee Mountain homos great yeah of course I mean who isn't obsessed with Dolly Parton and this choir called the Tennessee Mountain Homo's. Great yeah of course I mean who isn't obsessed with Dolly Parton first of all like she's just a gem of a human being and a shining light in this world and reading about her she has written over like five thousand songs like just a stupid astounding amount of songs. So the Tennessee Mountain Homo's is a choir

of queer people dedicated to singing and celebrating the love of Dolly Parton. So once a year, we play a party called Steers and Queers, which is, as suggests, a country and western-themed queer party that will be at Buddies in Bad Times Theater this year. And yeah, we get the band together, rehearsed some songs and sang two or three Dolly Parton. And we're all wearing white robes.

We all have wigs and we kind of camp it up and celebrate the great Dolly Parton. OK, since you are such a fan and that sounds like a great time, what you're describing there, is it true? I'm asking you like you're Dolly, because Dolly apparently it's gonna be difficult to get her in the basement, and I don't like to do these remotes, okay? But-

Dream big, dream big. I am dreaming big. I actually am dreaming big. I dreamt one day that Chuck D would be in the basement, because I love Public Enemy. And that did not happen, but I was able to bring my studio to the C&E grandstand and have a in-person chat with him,

recorded chat with him there. So I feel like that's the next best thing, an in-person. So I will now picture, maybe Dolly lets me set up backstage at, I don't know, Massey Hall or something, and then I can chat with her there. Okay, so is it true that Jolene, one of her most famous songs, and I Will Always Love You, one of her most famous songs? In fact, could I argue that those are her two biggest mainstream songs? I mean, nine to five. So, but those three then. Yeah. Okay.

But if I'm not talking country hits, like for crossover appeal, would it be fair to say those are the three biggest Dolly Parton jams? Those three. I believe so, yes. Is it true that Jolene and I Will Always Love You were written in the same day or am I conflating stories? Have you ever heard this? I think I've heard that story.

I mean, imagine it's insane to believe that that's true. I mean, that's you basically setting up a foundation for rich people for the rest of eternity with those two songs. So that's a really productive day if that is in fact true. But okay, I'm gonna ask the lives people on the live stream, and I'm gonna ask somebody there to fact check this. I have read this in the past, and I just wondered if you knew that to be true. I've heard it a few times. But because, you know, Jeremy Hopkins says Dolly Parton is a force of nature. We agree. But now joining the live stream, I see it's Leslie. And she said the book launch was fantastic. So when was the book launch?

Well, thank you for asking, Leslie Taylor. The book launch was just two days ago on Monday night, a week before publication. And we did have Carolyn and her band Mintz play, and we did a version of that Ataman track live, which was terrifying for me, because I'm not a singer or performer. But you're not really singing. No, I'm sort of ori. You're doing what you're doing now. You're finding your groove in the music

and finding breaks, and you know, it's kind of a, it's a performance-based thing. And we did that in a version of a story called Rise Up, which is obviously about the Toronto parachute clips on. Yeah, absolutely. She's been on the show, the- Lorraine Tagados? Oh, sure. Great.

And I learned a fun fact that her sister was married to Gene Velitas from the Jessie and Gene show. Well, we learned. This is what- We live, we learn. And then I realized that Gene Velitas was also, I don't know if he was married. I think he was dating the first woman VJ in much music history. Her name is Katherine McClanahan. So pre Erica M. She was the first VJ. People kind of write her out of history, but I don't, I don't print the legend here, Pete. But then the fun fact is just on Monday. So what is it now? Wednesday on Monday snow

was here setting where you are. And his manager who drove him here is a guy named Paul Farberman. Paul Farberman was dating Catherine McClanahan, also for a period of time in the 80s. In fact, Catherine McClanahan, when I chatted with her, told me she was at the recording of Tears Are Not Enough in 1985, and I said, why were you there, Catherine McClanahan? told me she was at the recording of tears are not enough. Wow. In 1985.

And I said, why were you there, Kassar McClanahan? And then she said, because her boyfriend, Paul Farberman, was the music lawyer guy who had to get sign-offs from all the people like Daniel Youngs and Joni Mitchell. Yeah. A lot of Joni Mitchell chatter in your book. There is that too. Absolutely.

I love Joni. So I'm gonna say Ken, people are gonna buy this book and read it. And'm gonna just name-check some of the artists that you Wrote about in great detail. So you talk about lots of musicians like even last week Brendan canning was over here Mm-hmm, and you talk a lot about like broken social scene. Yeah, there's a great PSS story in there So, I don't know I don't know what like where the line is and sharing too much for a book promotion or whatever, but broken social scene stars, which we already alluded to

and we talked about earlier, but I'm just gonna name check some non-Canadian names. Yeah, go for it. David Bowie? Yeah, of course. I mean, Bowie's a load star for us all. Madonna? Yeah, that's a bit of a hot take

because as a gay man, I don't love Madonna. So there's, I know I'm gonna hear about that story. Bjork? Yeah amazing artist love Bjork and I have a real soft spot for that story because the man in that story is real special to me. Kate Bush? Kate is like otherworldly to me I love her love her so there's several Kate Bush stories including one of the dirtiest stories in the book is his background. That's a high bar. Honestly, at some points I'm reading this book and I'm like, Oh, am I reading like soft core porn here? No, this is the Pete book. Okay. It's very explicit. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, but, but it's so honest and raw. You share so much of yourself in

this book. I honestly felt like, oh, I've lived precariously through Pete. I have now lived life as a gay man. So maybe I am. Maybe that guy was right. He's gonna have a lot to say about this episode. Maybe that guy was right. But here's an unsung hero,

and I wanna just shout this person out because we see Catherine O'Hara all the time. We sure do. Here's a fun fact. So Schitt's Creek, did you watch Schitt's Creek? I did. I did. Did you enjoy Schitt's Creek?

Love and hated. Loved Catherine O'Hara. Thought it was a little too cute and all up, but it was a fun watch and I really enjoyed it. I took two runs at that program and couldn't get through the first season. Yeah, fair. So I feel like what's wrong with me because it's so lauded. Yeah. Listen, it's not for everybody

But I think I like those guys so much. I don't know why it wasn't for me But okay, and also I was a big get a life fan So I if Chris Elliott's in something I'm interested, you know what I mean? So forget Eugene Levy and okay But but this is a long-winded way to say my most recent guest is the lead singer and founder of Colorado Mm-hmm Menno Versteeg Menno is married to Annie Murphy. His wife is yeah,

is Dan Levy. Was it Alexis? OK, there you go. So I think that's a wild fact, but I want to ask you about Mary Margaret O'Hara. Like, say some words because we talk, you know, this family is

large. I've had chats of a Michael O'Hara who's called me up to ask me questions of a podcasting like I think there's 10 sip I don't know how many O'Hara's there are there's like a hundred I think it's a hundred but yeah, some of them are the most famous being Katherine O'Hara who is showing up in The Last of Us. Yeah, she's everywhere all of a sudden. She's everywhere. Yeah, she's having like a resurgence Totally more than just home alone and Beetlejuice was like the big post see it Totally more than just home alone and beetle juice was like the big posy Ctv stuff, but please tell me a little bit about Mary Mary Margaret O'Hara. Yeah, she's underappreciated

Oh, she is so underappreciated. I think she's one of the most amazing artists this country has ever produced Her one and only record Miss America It's in the book. I think came out in 1987 is just a thing of staggering artistic beauty. And, you know, I was talking about this yesterday with someone who also agreed with me. It's one of the most unheralded albums in our country and in the world, because I do believe it deserves that recognition. It just, it's artistic truth. Like it's just a woman who would not be bent by anyone and released this record that's just so beautiful and so tender. I write about it far more articulately than I am saying it right now in the book.

No, but unsung, it just basically is underappreciated and you don't hear a lot about Mary Margaret O'Hara. No, and I think that should change. Like if that's one thing. I know a podcast that will do a deep dive. Okay, great. Invite me please. Yeah. You can co-host that episode with me. Great. Yeah, and she's a bit of a nut. Like I love her and her way through the world. She just kind of floats and when you get it, I've met her a couple times through queer songbook orchestra shows mostly and she's just this ethereal being and you know it's she almost doesn't live on this earth and that one record was all we got out of her is just it's a gift it's a gift and I encourage everyone who reads this book to listen to it and to engage

with it so you mentioned the QSO? Yeah, what is that the queer songbook orchestra? Which is a band mostly out of Toronto, but they are they do shows all over the country And it's a 14 piece orchestra of queer people celebrating songs and stories of the queer community. They're incredible Amazing. Yeah. And in the, a few of them performed at my book launch, which was like such a gift to me. And I'm getting even a little bit clumped

thinking about it. Cause it was a real gift. We encouraged the tears on this program. You're not the first, you're not even the first one this month. Okay. Don't you worry. And shout out to Elvis,

who he, I have to mop up the tiers when he visits sometimes, okay? So don't worry, I don't think any mop is required here. Okay, but now, I know how I wanna close, but just on the penultimate conversation here, I remember the day vividly that Aretha Franklin passed away because that was the day Molly Johnson visited to be on Toronto mic'd.

Oh wow. And I asked her off the top about, because Aretha was a hero of hers. Sure. And I asked her off the top, of course I asked her about Aretha Franklin and her influence on Molly's career. And I didn't know I was breaking the news to Molly and it was quite a moment and then it went south from there. You need to listen to Molly Johnson on the mic. But can you share with me what the death of Aretha Franklin meant to you?

Yeah, I mean, holy moly. What a staggering talent. I mean, that's someone who, unlike Mary Margaret O'Hara does not need much more praise or laudatory comments from me. But, um, you know, I think she's probably the greatest singer who's ever been recorded there's probably other singers greater than her and they have lived in other times before recording devices existed but I just think there's a gut truth to the way she sings a song that it just transcends all genre it transcends everything like I don't think there's a single person who could listen

to some of Aretha's greatest stuff from her Atlantic years and think, well, that's not very good. It's just staggeringly good work. And to me, she was just one of those artists I connected with at a really early age. I think I was like 15 or 16 and bought Aretha's gold thanks to my friend Michelle. And just instantly, it was just this bomb for me and my sore tender heart.

Great loss, absolutely. What a legend Aretha was. The sun burned hard, it burned my eyes, burned so hard I thought I'd died, thought I'd died and gone to hell Looking for the water from a deeper well I went to the river but the river was dry I fell to my knees and I looked to the sky looked to the sky and the spring rain fell I saw the water from a deeper well Well looking for the water from a deeper well Pete tell me about Christopher. Oh my, that's a great cue.

It made me think of Christopher. Because I read your book. Well, you read my book. Christopher House, who is a choreographer and dancer, a very significant note in this country, is my boyfriend. And I met him post my 50th birthday and before the pandemic. And this is a song actually very significant to our relationship because I introduced Emmylou Harris's beautiful record Wrecking Ball, which this song appears on,

to Christopher during the pandemic. And it is featured in a dance performance of his called New Tricks, which is going to be actually remounted next week here in Toronto at the Citadel. Is Christopher the love of your life? Oh, of course. Yes. He's the person I would have loved to imagine myself being with when I was like 20, 30, 40, but I would not have been ready for Christopher House until I was in my 50s.

So when you're watching the... this is like a soundtrack of songs. So, sorry, what is it called the Christopher's piece that features this song? What is the name of that? New Tricks. New Tricks, okay. So when you're first watching New Tricks, do you have any idea what it's about? No. Oh, this is great. No, he was very secretive about this whole show as he was developing it and commissioning music, which turns out was from our friend Tom Gill from the Queer Songbook Orchestra. Yeah. And he really wouldn't tell me a thing about it until opening night when I was sitting in the theater. So when did you realize what it was about?

Well, when I realized what I think it was about, because it was a very egocentric take on what the show was about, was very much about what my book is about, and it's sharing songs with intimate partners and sharing stories about your life together. And you know, New Tricks features probably six or seven songs that he and I shared over the course of the pandemic. During those dark, dark times during lockdowns where we would be at each other's apartments, me playing him records him playing me music on his phone. Yeah, and so it's sort of like, to me honors those nights where we just connected over music. And you know, I have this book that I used my artistry to

write about those experiences. And he's using his body and artistry to dance and talk about those things. During COVID-19, the pandemic. I was reading in your book that it was awful for everybody, but it was also triggering to you because it was reminiscent of the AIDS fears that we have been talking about and is in your book, right? So it's interesting to think about this panic over this unknown virus and how it can re-trigger what we were enduring in the 80s. Totally, you know, just,

because partly the confusion and this potentially deadly disease and deadly virus that we didn't know how it was transmitted and we didn't know the impacts of it. And it sort of for me made that idea of meeting people again scary and definitely made meeting people for sex really scary because that's you know there's an intimacy and sharing of stuff that just again horrify me and talking about testing positive and case counts and all that kind of stuff. I totally see it like maps. Yeah. I think that was a very interesting detail to read in your book and your book again, which you can pre-order now. The Vinyl Diaries, Sex, Deep Cuts,

and my soundtrack to Queer Joy. I enjoyed the book thoroughly and I'm glad you wrote it and I'm glad you're sharing your story with us today. Pete, thanks for doing this buddy. Thank you so much Mike. This has been a pleasure. And that brings us to the end of our 1688th show. I think that's a good number 1688 great number. Okay. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. I'm very active on bluesky at torontomike.com there. Where if somebody wanted to just like follow the ongoing adventures of peak right and like where would you send them? Probably Instagram's the best place which is P-E-T-C-R-I, the first three letters of my first and last name.

Okay, I'll tag you on there when I share the, we're gonna take a photo by Toronto Tree. Great. I have an arborist who's going to check on the health of Toronto Tree and discuss like, what's going on with Toronto Tree, health-wise, what kind of tree is it, and why are urban

trees so vital and important with multiple benefits? That is a future episode of Toronto Mike. So all the Toronto Treeheads will finally learn more about Toronto Tree. You're going to get your photo with me by Toronto Tree. Great. Can't wait. Mere minutes. And don't leave without your palma pasta lasagna.

I will not. That's dinner tonight. Woo. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. That's Leslie Taylor. That's Great Lakes Brewery. That's Palma pasta. That's Menaris.

That's Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. Everybody 130 Sunday. Join me. I got some plans, tricks up my sleeve. We'll take in some Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. Hopefully tonight we get a Toronto Maple Leafs win. Joseph Wall will be between the pipes, but you're not a Leaf fan.

Are you? You reference that off the top? No, sorry. You're not even jumping on this bandwagon. Not doing it. Well, you don't have to. RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto Skyline, and Ridley Funeral Home. I'm literally recording a new episode of Life's Undertaking with Brad Jones. When are we going to do that?

Like four o'clock, maybe five o'clock this afternoon. So don't you dare miss that. See you all tomorrow when my special guest is the lead singer and founder of Chilliwack, Bill Henderson. They're on their farewell tour. They've got their final concert coming up at Massey Hall. I don't think Adam Ant is on that bill, but we'll see you then. Thanks for listening. So You