Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - PJ Fresh Phil: Toronto Mike'd #169

Episode Date: April 27, 2016

Mike chats with PJ Fresh Phil about his decade on YTV working with the Grogs and Snit and what he's been up to since.

Welcome to episode 169 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a local independent brewery producing fresh craft beer. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is Phil Guerrero, better known as PJ Fresh. Torero, Better Known As, PJ, Fresh, Phil. Episode 169. I saved 169 for you. Don't worry. I can't rap anyway.

I can't spit fire. Do you like that song? That song? Yeah. Yes. Would you imagine that could be a top 40 hit? It could be played on, what's our local stations? 92.5? 10.50 chum.

Yeah. The 10.50 chum chart. I get up in the morning and tape on a cassette player. Is Bob McAdory going to spin that? Bob McAdory. Oh my gosh. Thanks, man. And by the way, are you okay with the fact that people are forever going to call you

PJ Fresh Phil? I'm finally okay with it. For a while, I hated it. I was that guy. I was that stupid. You hear about it about these celebrities. That's why I kind of don't take it seriously anymore. You were the band that refused to play their big hit in concert.

You know those bands? They got one big hit and they refused to play it. Yeah, I don't want to be defined by that moment. And I sort of get it. It's funny. You've got to remember, these guys are forever known for this thing that maybe was two days in their life. Do you know what I mean?

You're right. And possibly an awful experience. That's right. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I was at that and i really and i really got it and it was only this year at this convention where it was it was me signing autographs at this table and the other big thing and i was really jazzed about it um it

was the reunion of the actors from black christmas yes yeah so it was art hindle and um i forgot her name but she was the the love interest in strange brew and the guy from going down the road and they're all kind of they're older right the can con classic yeah it's like and these guys um like they're fielding these like super detailed questions about the film and i noticed in the conversation it was mostly about i was like yeah you know first of all it was probably only five days of work in 1973 but they they kind of recalled more like it was like yeah and that was a great day but then what you do remember is the struggle after and there's beer commercials and deodorant commercials and you're not working and then you're you're smoking a lot, and you gain weight,

and those moments in their lives are bigger. Right. It's like The Simpsons did that, right? Yeah, they have the cast, and the comic book guy or whatever would ask some detailed nerdy question, and they have no idea. It's like, oh, the Itchy and Scratchy panel. It's like, yeah. So it's sort of like that, and they're it's it's being demanded

of them that they recall these two days of work that they might not remember because it was the 70s at least you at least pj fresh phil was more than two days of work so at least that was like yeah it's all a decade right yeah it was it was over a decade i mean i look at it like when people recognize me as pj phil listen or they scream much music or whatever at me, you know, whatever it is. I totally get it. I can step outside myself and my insecurities or whatever hang ups and say, OK, so there's this guy that was on TV for these guys for 11 years. And maybe you didn't have an older brother or sister or you hated your younger brother or sister. You didn't have a babysitter.

And this was sort of the beginning of that age where you can just plop the kids in front of something and they'll just stay there, right? So the parents could go do whatever. Now it's the internet and everything. You literally don't have to do anything with your kid. You're right. That was a different era.

It was a different era. So I think these parents in the 90s were like, wow, I could plop this kid in front of this TV. And Phil will watch them. Yeah, Phil will watch them between 3.30 and 6, which is a chunk of time. Honey, let's go upstairs. Burning question, though.

Fresh Phil. Was that supposed to be with a PH? Fresh was with a PH, but then it became an F? I don't know. It was whatever they, you know. I need to know, man. That's my first big question. I think I always questioned it, too.

And but I just never said anything like I did. I didn't care. I hated it. So I hate this. You know what I mean? Like PHF. I hate them both. We're going to we're going to know we're going to go dive in there and like get into your brain and find out how you came to accept your PJ Freshville moniker.

We're going to this is going to be a good experience. It's going to be cathartic for you. Oh, yeah. But first, I got to say a couple of things, housekeeping stuff. First of all, back in the early 90s on Monday nights, I used to go to the Phoenix for Andy Frost, of all people, was hosting Strange Paradise. Welcome to the Phoenix.

Last call for cock. Tails. Andy Frost. And, like, I always remember we'd get there for the opening, so they would always open with Day in the Life by the Beatles.

And then, you know, I went there because I liked my Nirvana, my Soundgarden, my Pearl Jam, my Stone... That was my thing. So where I'm going with this is

we used to go there every Monday night and often we'd see PJ Freshville. I know where this is going. Exactly. You would be sort of, I would call it, it's not really moshing because you do it by yourself, but you would be doing this thing, the long hair, and you would be doing your thing.

And we were all like, we never bothered you or whatever, but we're like, that's PJ Freshville. Every Monday night almost. You were like a fixture there. Yeah. I mean, you know, I liked, yeah, I loved that music. And I don't know if you knew this. I used to go-go dance there, too. No.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was like sort of a moonlighting job. Oh, yeah? Like I did every now and then. I would go-go dance at the Phoenix and the Joker. And I would make like whatever, 70 bucks a night. Hey, why not?

Dancing. Yeah, I mean, yeah, why not? Do kids still do that though like this whole because i sometimes i'm talking like i have a 14 year old and i'm talking like you know we had different nights for different places like thursday nights we went to the barracuda because they had 98 cent beers before 10 p.m and we would hoard them at our table like 98 cent beers that's even back then that was incredible but like do kids today they don't do this right like we would some nights we'd go to the Oz or whatever.

Like we had these certain spots. Yeah, we had these nights of, yeah, like Thursdays. Was it Thursdays at the Oz? It was Thursdays at the Oz. But I was, okay, because I was always

at the Bear, yeah, My girlfriend at the time was a go-go dancer at the Oz. Oh, nice. But this is gone, right? This is like a 90s thing, right?

This is gone. This is gone. And I've read articles on this and how the nightclub scene has kind of died for this younger generation. They prefer to do other things than go out to these clubs. Like Starbucks?

Is that what they're doing? Yeah, Tinder. Do you know what I mean? And it's expensive. Well, you don't have to go to the club. When we were single, we'd go to the club. You could pick up at the club. But nowadays, you're right.

Tinder is a more efficient manner. Yeah, that's why you went out. You went to go meet people. You meant to go meet girls or guys or whatever. Whatever you're into. Yeah, whatever your proclivity is. And yeah, it's dead. It's dead.

But I think it doesn't mean it has to be dead. What I think is, and I see this happening with vinyl, it just needs to be introduced to them by the proper receptors or virus spreaders. The influencers? The influencers to get them to just try it. And I think that they would experience something with it that would be filling a hole that they're trying to use

staying by themselves in front of the internet, in front of the computer screens. It's a lonely thing. I do it myself. I'll be on Facebook. I read Facebook like, this is the best song I ever wrote.

This is your biggest hit. This one was an unexpected one. Don't define me by this one song. You know, so... God, I lost my train of thought. My apologies. By himself on an elevator. That's not how I want to go.

That's not the way you want to go. I know. At least he had an elevator in his home. That's kind of cool. Yeah, but still... By the way, I just want to point out, if I have a home ever, which I'll never have, but if I ever have a home big enough for an elevator, yeah but still by the way I just want to point out if I have a home ever which I'll never have

but if I ever have a home big enough for an elevator I'm still taking the stairs until I can't take the stairs anymore I'm taking the elevator so I have somewhere to pass out

so like I don't know we're about the same age and like I grew up with Prince so you get it yeah you get it and Purple Rain was big when I was a kid

and you know we all loved it and I always appreciated Prince but I never considered myself like a big Prince guy. But since he died, I've been diving in. And I feel like I missed out on, like, I feel like I didn't appreciate him enough when he was alive. Like, that happens, I guess.

Yeah. And, you know, I got to say, like, you know, I think about, like, going to see bands now. And it's more about seeing them, I think, during the time. Like, I saw Guns N' Roses open up for the cult here in 1987 at the C&E. And that was the time to see them. And I remember seeing them after in a really short span. It was only a few years before that just blew up. Before they used your illusions?

Yeah, and then they were all drunk and it was awful. And it wasn't as good as seeing them the first time. Absolutely not. The window's smaller than that. Yeah, with Prince, like, you would have wanted to see. I already missed the Purple Rain kind of time, like that Warner Brothers kind of time. Or the beginning, do you know what I mean?

So seeing him, if I saw him last week, you know, it would have been awesome, but it wouldn't have been like seeing him in the 80s. No, this is the cut. Like, to me, I mean, again, it wasn't have been seeing him in the 80s. No, this is the cut. To me, again, I wasn't a big... This is the era. This is it. This is his era.

Yeah, I'd say 84, 83, 84, 85. It was this amazing build up to this. And then it was like when David Bowie had Let's Dance. He was quite never the same after. Do you know what I mean? Because where do you go from there? You can't, unless you go to Mars. Oh, seven inches, watch them fall.

Yeah, there was a lot of good music after. But it wasn't like this. I don't know what you thought of Batdance, but I feel like Prince disowned Batdance because it was like a big Warner Brothers sellout maybe or something. Because he never really seems to... I was looking at that stuff too. There's this one thing on Facebook

where he's doing the bass for it. Okay. He's playing the bass for the song. I just heard a Big Daddy Kane remix of it that Warner Brothers refused to release because they didn't like it. That's a piece of vinyl, actually, because now I'm like...

I never got... You know, I started collecting vinyl again and I wasn't... I didn't replace any Prince records before this. So now I'm just like, oh, I don't even want to look at how much the Prince records are. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the one I kind of want to sneak, you know, is that Batman soundtrack. Because he did the whole thing.

Yeah. And you might as well start at a weird place. And I was actually listening to a couple of the tracks. I was like, this stuff is nuts. I love it. And much music played the shit out of that. Like that bat dance was on high rotation because i i had my batman t-shirt i remember i don't remember if it's burger king

or mcdonald's but one of those places was giving out like the batman jumbo pops or whatever like the cups were and i was like that was a big 89 right that was the big thing was the batman and this song not this song the bat dance was like yeah it was this other second big hit for him but you know what like he changed like and it also it's because the industry changed right after um after everything went digital and then music started to lose its value do you know what i mean like they're not records anymore they're cds and the cds like they they don't even last they don't last like vinyl and then now it's mp3s and now it's just, there's no value in music.

It's not tangible. You can't touch it. You can't touch it. There's no value to it. And I think, do you see how that sort of like Prince was not meant for that? Right.

Do you know what I mean? I do know. And that's probably why he fought it so hard because I can't think of anyone who fought the digital rights, if you will, as hard as Prince. Yeah, and he fought the whole he never sold his songs like he could have made

millions selling like 1990 you know what i mean like all those songs to commercials as he never did that no the song it's gonna happen now though the song uh really holds up i just want to point out that like hearing it now it's still a killer track. That's what I mean, man. I mean, this is an era. It wasn't just this. It was the movie and the androgyny, that weird... Well, he's the only guy who could steal your girl and her wardrobe. And you. And you.

That's right. That's right. Hey, there's some Great Lakes beer in front of you right now. Is this your sponsor? That's my sponsor. Okay, which one? These guys? Yeah, so which one he got sponsor? That's my sponsor. Which one? These guys?

Which one he got there? What's that called? Tank 10. Long Dong. Pilsner. Sorry. That's all right. All that is yours. You can drink it now or take it with you. Are you serious? I'm dead serious, yeah. Oh, no way. It's not just a display case. I didn't know that.

If they're sponsoring, I have to pop one. It is all yours. Pop one if you wish. I didn't know this happened. So that's yours. And while I'm doing this housekeeping, if people want to help crowdfund Toronto Mic'd, patreon.com slash torontomic or just come to torontomic.com

and click the orange button that says become a patron. So be like Matt D and Drew and Mike Wise and Thermos and Greg Gore and, and the rest of the great sponsors. So please help fund this podcast. Let's hear it. And with that, the long dong is sprung.

The long dong. Yeah, that's, that's all yours. So yeah, Prince, amazing. I also watched this other

youtube concert it was sometime after the whole purple rain thing an unbelievable dancer and choreographer and um huge elaborate show like lots of just choreography and and i think well okay wow this guy not only you know played all the instruments and wrote all this music but he's ridiculously talented like stuff too and i think with that genius comes this eccentricity which uh you know we always hear about the whole like don't look him in the eyes and like there's a lot of and even the kevin smith i heard the kevin smith story like there's a lot of weird print stuff but i think the weirdness and the eccentricity comes with being a genius like that like at age seven he's composing songs like what is this guy mozart he's, he's playing all the instruments.

You know, he's, it's just, he's just a crazy musical genius. And then that comes with some weirdness. It's crazy to human beings because what, you know, especially with creative geniuses, this is what, this is my opinion, especially with creative geniuses, you see that there are,

the other parts of their lives fall apart because they're not meant to exist in that, that human um sort of where we govern ourselves with rules and things like that you can't you can't have that if you're trying to reach from a different universe to pull down art and to make yourself vulnerable and to get it to everybody you know um and and keep coming up with it you You can't, like I noticed with Prince interviews, he sort of, do you notice he kind of just like, it's like he treats people like they don't understand

where he's coming from. Right, right. Do you know what I mean? And that's that genius. And you look at all of them, like Frank Lloyd Wright was this genius architect and he had like eight wives. Yeah, yeah.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So I, you know, any of these geniuses like that, they, they have to exist on this higher plane or else they're not going to be able to come up with stuff that you're going to like,

because that's not your job. That's their job. Right. Do you know what I mean? Well, so you gotta, you have to pretend you're God. You have to,

you have to have that. You know what I mean? Like you have to be above everybody or really believe that you are. I don't know. Now take me back here. Because we got to dive in because I got a lot I need to talk to PJ Fresh Phil about.

I have that. There's a lot here. I was going to say, you would know. You don't even understand. As a creative genius, you'd understand. Creative genius. Way back when. How did you know that you wanted to be on TV in the first place?

How does this begin for you, pre-YTV here? Honestly, as long as I can remember, I look at old pictures of me when I was a kid, maybe like, I don't know, four years old, and I'm dancing. And I kind of remember that day. I don't know why I'm dancing and I'm dancing. And I kind of remember that day. Like, I don't know why I'm dancing. Do you know what I mean?

So you had this like, some kind of extroverted performance requirement? There was like a need. There was like a need to do something. You know what I mean? And I remember watching TV and thinking, I want to do that or I could do that. And mind you, like it was sheer luck that it even happened because i

was late in my life and but early in my career it is strange but you already know you were like when you start and i have a clip i'm gonna play in a minute which i think is your like ytv debut you'll tell me if i'm wrong but it's i wouldn't remember why it's ytv rocks so this is oh yeah pre-pj stuff this is pre-pj yeah yeah so, this is pre-PJ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm going to play it because we talked about like at the Phoenix and we liked the same kind of tunes back then. I mean, I still listen to that shit. Like I'm still putting on my Beastie Boys and my Public Enemy and my, you know, I'm still putting on Soundgarden or whatever. When you name all these, I'm like, other vinyl I don't have.

And then I'm like, 30 bucks. You know, that's 40. That one's 60. Well, since you brought a vinyl, I got to ask you the annoying question I ask everybody when they get into vinyl again which is like what drew you to vinyl? Is it the inconvenience or the expense? No, I'm a guy who used to be

into vinyl, like I had all my old vinyl when I was a teenager and I somehow got rid of it and a lot of it's worth a ton of money I managed to keep a few things, the one I the one I kept a hold of was Metallica's Injustice for All. Yep. Beautiful.

Double album. It's worth $300. Get out of here. Yeah. And my original, but the thing is, I don't know where my original Master of Puppets and my Ride the Lightning and my Kill Em All and all my old Misfits albums,

all this shit is worth so much fucking cash and i'm like uh and you just kind of want to replace it all right so let's play uh my second coming with vinyl and anyways i have all of no i'm sorry you didn't even i mean that was a that stupid joke that whole what drew you to vinyl like the expense or the inconvenience yeah that's because i'm just jealous. Yeah. No, don't be jealous. Like, oh no, but I started when I first started, like I, and I still kind of do this. I don't really go to record stores. I will only buy records at like Value Village or up until a little while ago.

And I have amassed about 800 albums in the last like year and a half, but only through these finds. So it's not like the greatest collection there's like one Led Zeppelin album like you know um but a lot of weird stuff so I I refuse to go to like a record store and spend 26 dollars if there's a vinyl down the street I'll later I'll show you even use there's a place called vinyl a vinyl cafe with like what's used vinyl but it's very inexpensive and it's just very like a quiet little spot it's used vinyl, but it's very inexpensive, and it's just a very quiet little spot.

Yeah, but my other thing is it's like I turned it into not only collecting vinyl and listening to music and hi-fi, but I turned it into this great sort of treasure hunt. Yeah, cool. No, I can see the other way. I'm totally just, that's a stupid joke I do because I'm jealous of that. That's a great hobby. No, but it's, yeah, everyone's getting into it. It's kind of like making fun of yoga

or swing dancing in the 90s. Or cross training. Yeah, you know, CrossFit. CrossFit, that's the one. That's the one. That's just like prisoners when they got their weights taken away. That's right.

It's true. Let's go way back in the time machine here. This is, it's called Why TV Rocks. And let's hear a little, like this might be your debut. Let's hear a little, like this might be your debut. Let's hear it. Next time you're in a record store, check out Soundgarden's Louder Than Love LP.

Although you've probably never heard of these guys before, they're not a new band, and this isn't the first album. However, it's their first major record release, so their other stuff's probably hard to find. Now, the thing about Soundgarden is actually their sound. It has great presence to it, and they make great use of guitar and vocal sounds, reminiscent of, say, early Led Zeppelin or early Black Sabbath. If you like heavy metal, hard rock, or even thrash, and you're kind of tired of hearing the same three chords, you should definitely check this album out.

Now, my two favorite songs on this are Loud Love and Hands All Over. Here's a little look at the video Loud Love. Actually, before you do that, check out the singer Chris Cornell and his hair. It's the heaviest thing I've ever seen. It's like a scientific approach to headbanging. Here's the video. God. Hey hey you know what

wow you get good taste of music yeah like that's funny i think i was 18. and i listened to the words i was using i'm like wow i don't i don't speak like that anymore but also like i'm trying to sound cool like but how do you end up on YTV Rocks? How does that work out? Okay, so this is a kid that always wanted to be on TV, always wanted to do something. I wanted to do all of that. I wanted to be a rock star. I wanted to be on TV. I wanted to be an actor.

I'm 18 now, and I had a friend in private school. His name was Russ, and he was one of those child actors. He had a Sunlight commercial, and he was on a show on Global called The Kanga Zoo Club. There was two hosts on that, and it was this guy, Russell Chong, and this other girl, the white girl. So he did television all his life,

and this is like when you were an actor back then, you were in this one book called Face to Face or something, and the only actors in Toronto would be in this one book, and he'd be there with his brothers and sister. And so he was that kid, you know. But by the time we were our age, like 18, 17, 18, he hated it. And YTV just came out, and they started YTV Rocks, and it was Laurie Hibbert and Michael Kwas,

and they had these sort of reporter co-hosts, and he was one of them. And this is near the end of his career. He hated it, and I remember he hated being out doing streeters while everyone was standing around. So he was over it. Now he's a managing director at City Black in New York. Because this is private school, right?

So he went the right way. I took over. I went this way to be part of the 99%. Starving artist group. Yeah, the 99% while he jumped up to one. So, you know, and he got me an audition. And I remember it was actually like, I think it was a YT, the first achievement awards.

They wanted a shot of a garage band or it was like a garage band show. I can't remember. I'd have to look it up. But they wanted a shot of a garage band. And he said, hey, I got a friend and he's got a high school band. So me and my buddies, like we went, we shot this thing, pretended to play a song. And it was part of the opening of this YTV thing. that's really how it started and then i auditioned and while i was shooting that i auditioned to be a co-host on ytv rocks i didn't get it but they said hey um why don't you

come and do like um some new stories for us uh part-time this is my last year of high school at jarvis i'd since gotten kicked out of of Upper Canada College. That's where that vocabulary came from. You know, scientific method. What did I say? Like, scientific approach. Who talks like that at 17? Anyway, so that's what happened. I auditioned and

those are the stories. But actually, I look back at it. It was like, I remember the first thing I did was either like what jeans, I think it was what jeans are hot. And we went to Under the Rainbow or Over the Rainbow. Under the Rainbow, I think, was the midget movie. Over the Rainbow.

And, you know, Joel, I interviewed that guy, Joel. And I've since gave them a digital copy of that. And he flipped out. This is like a couple of years ago. I went to one of their store parties and I gave it to them on like a little USB key. And they're like, oh my God, this is amazing. We're both young in it. So that was my first story.

And the other story was like a principal that got fired in a student protest. But album review, like how cool is that, dude? Right? And that's before Bad Motorfinger, which is like, that's sort of like, because Bad Motorfinger is like the sound guard that breaks them like mainstream or whatever.

There was a Chinese dude. There was a Chinese dude in Soundgarden. Like, this is back then. Like, this is a long time ago. You referenced Cornell's hair, which was legendary. But if you watch that clip on YouTube, your hair was freaking legendary. Yeah, well, I wanted to.

Dude, I was, I remember before the TV started, I wanted to be in Guns N' Roses. That's why I was playing. If you saw me there, I was like a guitar nerd, learning tap solos and trying to play Racer X and Paul Gilbert, a heavy metal guitar nerd. No, Bing Bay Manstein? And it never happened.

I talked to puppets instead. Okay, well, let's talk. Yeah, let's get into that. So, origin of the PJs. Let me tell you how I understand it. You can flesh it out. I guess you're airing American shows, which have gaps for big, fat American commercials.

But you guys have some CRTC rule. You can only air so many commercials on YTV. So what are you going to do to fill in this time? Well, you program jockeys, right? So the PJs are born out of that. Do I have that story right? Yeah, that's exactly right. If they need to fill in exactly three minutes and 36 seconds, they could just throw them on live, just reading mail or whatever. And that time would be filled. And that was the, you know, solution to the problem. They also had these things they would do called roll-ins,

which was some of the first computer animation you ever saw, which was like that bird dipping into the water, and there's a ball rolling, and then a triangle, and then you take some more acid. Because I'm a child of the 80s, so when the 90s rolled around, I'm already a

teenager, so I'm kind of too old for YTV. You're too old for TV. I'm already a teenager. So I'm kind of too old for YTV. You're too old for TV. I'm too old for TV. I wasn't watching TV. I found room for a little TV. But still, even though I wasn't the target audience for YTV, and I know there's a lot of PJs. I got a list here, like PJ Paul and Ashna and PJ Katie and PJ Krista and PJ Todd and PJ Jen. But the PJ we knew, even though we didn't watch, PJ Todd and PJ Jen. But the PJ we knew, even though we didn't watch,

we knew the PJ Freshville. It's almost like, and this is just my observation, but you seem to rise above the rest in terms of like a name brand. Just my observation. Why I lasted, I can't tell you. I, you know, I don't know. I was there for 11 years. And they also kept using me for other projects. Like one time I was just so. I was there for 11 years. Um, and they, uh, they also kept using me for other

projects. Like at one time I was just so ensconced there. I think all the other on-air hosts or just on-air people were like, who can we just do this? How can we just go to the basketball, like a all-star game in Phoenix and cover that and do the NBA and, and, and tape the zone and, and shoot the anti-gravity room. Maybe it was just it came easy to me because I did it for so long. The longer you do it, the better you get at it. It's like any skill. I'll tell you, you spend any amount of hours doing anything that requires a brain,

two hands, two feet, or whatever, not even. You know what I mean? It's impossible for you to suck at it. Like you have to be a real idiot to suck at any skill, doing it for days and days and days. Do you know what I'm saying? Like you have to become good at it. Yeah, you got to put in your reps.

And that shirt, dude. He's got a Public Enemy shirt on his wall. That was my band, man. I was listening to the Guns N' Roses and then of course when Grunge broke or whatever, but my band back in in the late 80s, I would mainly listen to Public Enemy, like Nation of Millions or Fight the Power. I'll tell you, there's a cassette tape.

I don't know where it is. I'll have to ask my guitar player from when I was 16. Pre-YTV, still high school. I put together a high school band and we had a heavy metal guitar player and he played guitar and I rapped. And we did She Watched Channel Zero. Yeah, She Watched Channel Zero.

Yeah. And he played that. No, I mean, I had Yo! Bum Rush the show. Like, that's how big I was. But when, speaking real quick, but speaking of like hard rock, but when like when Anthrax and Public Enemy do Bring the Noise, it blew my mind.

It was like my genres were like meeting. They crossed together. It was perfect. Yeah, yeah. And then Judgment Night. I don't know if you remember. I guess it's like 94 because it was like my genres were like meeting. They crossed together. It was perfect. Yeah, yeah. And then Judgment Night, I don't know if you remember, I guess it was like 94 or whatever. Oh yeah, that movie.

I can't remember the movie but that soundtrack I've spun a million times because they took rock acts and they took rap acts. There's one Vanilla Ice album that is produced by the producer of Korn.

Get out of here. Have you ever heard that album? I did remember he did some kind of a heavy rock type. He did an Ice Ice Baby remix. He did an Ice Ice Baby remix and just some other music. It is amazing. I'll tell you, if you like that, we're talking about that.

Check that stupid Vanilla Ice album. It's hard. It sounds like Korn. It sounds like Korn. By the way, was it Jonathan Davies? Is that the lead singer of Korn? My brother Ryan, people used to say he looked like Jonathan Davies. This is back in the 90s. Then you didn't have to wait in line

at the clubs. That's right. I had a friend who said he was the drummer for Our Lady Pease. Hey, that'll work. Oh, I had the drummer of Our Lady Pease on this show, by the way. Jeremy Taggart. I've hung out with him. He sat in that chair. Yeah, he's a good guy.

We all have podcasts. Yeah, he's a good guy. The podcast crew. So The Zone, okay. So The Zone, it begins like as the after... I have to get these facts right. I'm like Brian Linehan on City TV. The Zone begins its life as the after-school zone,

and this debuts September 2, 1991. Does it? I don't know. I'm telling you, man. That's my first day of work. That's when The Zone starts. How did you get this info? I did lots of research.

Damn. Now, I got to talk about these puppets first, okay? Yes. Okay, so first of all... They weren't there in the beginning. But the Grogs, when did the Grogs show up? I can't remember. Maybe a year after?

Because you guys needed somebody to talk to? Is that the deal? Or kids just like puppets? I think what happened was, God, I have to get my facts straight. And he's a dear friend of mine, Dale Taylor. And we've since reconnected. He was the vice president of programming and production. Whether this is true or not, regardless, he had a lot to do with how We've since reconnected. He was the vice president of programming and production.

Whether this is true or not, regardless, he had a lot to do with how he helped steer these crazy ideas that were all fucking hits. Like, I can't even tell you. The guy's nuts, but he always knew. Anyways, so I think the puppets, the grogs, did one thing for us, and he saw that, oh, there could be something here. And yeah, they became, and especially during the day uh because the pjs during the day up until 3 30 were just for young young young kids and they did crafts and then i mean my job started because they

said oh let's let's try to do it after 3 30 and we'll call it the after school zone and i did three days out of the week and gourd gourd the pj man did two days out of the week and he did the early day stuff too but he was also trying to be an actor so it was good so we had time to go you know yeah so he didn't mind and eventually i took i took the zone over when he left and it was all my like i did that was my thing which was really weird because um yeah now now I think about it, the other PJs had to sort of share these days during the day, whereas I was on every day after school. You were the preferred PJ.

Yeah, it was all this. No, it wasn't preferred. It just kind of happened that way, I think. They never thought to throw. They can't throw these guys upwards. I don't know. I don't know. That's weird.

Yeah, I never thought about it. Children of the 90s need to hear from Warren Chester Grog. And people like me and old guys are going to want to know who the hell we're talking about. Okay, roll it. This is Grog. Say something. You get an ugly smile.

Okay. I said something. Okay. Do you know what? Today's prop day. We had this before, remember? Mr. Warren, can we take your picture, please? Yeah, that was yesterday.

That was today. That was today. Well, you've been smacking me in the head so much with it. I forgot. I thought it was yesterday. It's the flash, right? I wish it was yesterday. Okay.

So we have more props. You know what this is? It's an elephant. It's an elephant. It's an elephant because it's, it's, color, please, sir. Green. What? Green, yes, green. Now, it's an elephant right now, isn't it? Does it look like an elephant? It has a nose, see? It's an elephant. Would you please get, what is this? Now. Hey, look, our pizza came. It's, you know what, it's. Oh, boy. Okay, yeah look our pizza cake you know what it's oh boy okay yeah our pizza's here yeah your pizza are you sure you're not stoned when you're doing this pj acting no i wasn't i'll tell you honestly i wasn't i'm stoned now that's right now you can be done so this okay so i'm

listening it's kind of funny like the back and forth of you and the girl so who is this grog that you're kind of ribbing like you guys kind of go at each other in a subtle way. So the grogs were the brainchild of these two guys. I'm listening to that. I don't remember this, by the way. It's so funny. It's me, and I hear me. Okay, so the grogs were these two guys,

Jamie Shannon and Jason Hopley. They were the grogs were these two guys, Jamie Shannon and Jason Hopley. And they were the grogs. And Warren was this kind of funny accident. And the good things are always accidents. Because they had all these characters, these puppets. And that character was a bit grouchy. And then I remember, I'll tell you, when we first started that rapport, and now I'm listening to it, it's like the odd couple. I mean, it's a very simple thing.

It's just, I'm listening to it. I'm like, it's the odd couple. And I'm trying to make him mad, and he's mad at me. And he's sour. He's sour. And I'm trying to, yeah, I'm trying to bait him into bothering him to try and get a rise out of him. And I'm sure that's like

what kid wouldn't like that in front of them? It's the odd couple. I enjoyed the clips because I'm not sure if you intended it to be as funny as it sounds the way you guys kind of bite at each other. Yeah, it just happened. I remember YTV didn't like it.

They didn't like it because they thought it was negative. They thought kids are going to be mean to each other but the thing is like it was such a fucking hit it's so funny like and then then that just shuts out everybody up right like as soon as it starts bringing money in right revenue you know marketing has nothing to say you know they're like oh you know oh we have all these like sponsors coming of like, we won't be able to get sponsors if this continues. And then it actually goes well, and they're like, okay. That's what happened, and I was surprised. And then I guess, God, I'm getting so introspective now.

That's why I'm not even looking at you. So I guess that sort of planted the seed where i was always trying to push the envelope because i would or or do what i wanted to do because i have felt like that i thought that instinct was correct you know what i mean this uh that was against their instinct and i thought it was great because now we have something to talk about you know like before it was just me reading mail and talking about birthdays and what do we talk about but But now I have this personality to work with. Excuse me. And it's just, it's life.

Yeah, well, before we move on from the grog. So Retro Ontario recently did his second episode with me. And we go back and we talk about Hammy the hamster. My buddy Ed. Yeah, Ed. God bless Ed. So Ed, and I have a clip from Ed. I'll play later in this podcast.

But Ed wants me to ask you about the Pearl Jam. I was going to go with the Pearl Jam song, but the PJ song, which was performed at Canada's Wonderland. Oh, yeah. So this is for Festival of Friends in 92. Yeah, available at Jumbo Video for 99 cents. All right, then. You guys all know that we come up with new songs all the time, right?

Yeah, and they're all based on the Canada's Wonderland. We'll start it. It's pretty long, and then you'll tell me the story. This is like 5,000 kids, I think. Wow. In front of like 5,000 Beatles down there. Rob Stefani. Big director.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's YTV. All right. All right. I think they got it.

I don't remember. I think they're warming up the kids, like a participation. Yeah, I haven't heard this yet. Hit it, Ifman. I have this VHS. It's still sealed at home. Well, feel free to give, warming up the kids, like a participation. Yeah, I haven't heard this song. I have this VHS. It's still sealed at home. Well, feel free to give, like, you know, pop a video. You can give commentary as we hear this. Well, okay.

Yeah, I think that's Jason Hopley, part of the Grogs. They were all really creative. They all went to, like, one of those high schools, like, early. Oh, I thought you were going to say that one, Etobicoke School of the Arts. It's either Etobicoke School of the Arts or Earl Hay. So they're naturally

good. They can write, they can sing. That's a puppet. I know, it's a purple dinosaur puppet. I think that's a... God, I don't know. Anyway, so yeah, we sang the song. Do you want to hear the story? Yeah, yeah, yeah, please.

So Sherry Lewis and Lamb Chop were also in this big thing. And we're all in our trailer practicing the song. I think we're replacing some of the words with like shit and fuck or something. You know, like young kids. Young kids getting paid money to go be on stage and you know like be superstars like you don't know how to deal with it when you're a kid so you do shit like that you know so um sherry lewis and lamb chop were next to it like they had the trailer next to us so we're practicing the song with these bad words, and I hear like a knock.

Hello, guys. It's Sherry Lewis. I'm next door, and Lamb Chop can hear you. That's no shit. That's exactly like knock, knock, knock. Hi, guys. It's Sherry Lewis. See, she didn't know how to relate to anyone beyond the age of six or seven. I think that's what that's exactly like hi guys it's sherry lewis see she didn't know how to relate to anyone

beyond the age of six or seven i think that's what that's a mystery no it just it just tells me like what what a pro she is like to have wit and like you know to word it that way and that song that never ends was uh damn catchy because it would loop in your head the song that never you remember this is a song that never ends it just goes on and on my friends i don't know and it goes forever and it's super annoying man in fact i'm sorry i brought it up i was listening to soundgarden okay and watching watching this yeah you were striking this dude whack his head across the stage jesus christ pose which is by the way that song holds up too i don't know when the last time you heard jesus christ pose oh yeah it's so it's like a heavy wall of sound like it's just perfect oh so yeah my amp right now, my guitar head is the same guitar head that Kim Thayil used to

record Bad Motor Finger. Oh, yeah. That had an outshine on it too, right? I bought it off Kijiji for 180 bucks. Get out. The same one. Get out of here. The exact same one.

That's amazing. I researched it. That's what's great about the internet for me. I can super research stuff. Okay, grogs. Let's talk grogs are booted because I'm going to get this year right. In 1994 Was it in 94 they left?

In 94 they introduced the SNIT. Yes. I think the grogs had already left. It's not like one day there's a grog and the next day SNIT shows up. I don't know why the grogs left. I don't think they were fired.

It was kind of like they just wanted to do their own thing. I'd have to ask my buddy Jamie because I still see him. Find out. We'll get you back. Jason I haven't seen in years. I wonder what he's up to. Well, Snit saw a lot of... And Jason was Warren.

He was Warren Chester Grog. Warren Chester Grog. Warren Chester Grog. That's a big name for a little guy. Yeah. The Snit. Okay, so... So Snit. Can you describe for me what...

The Grog's left. Yeah, go ahead. Snit, I don't even know who came up with him. It was part of this whole concept. But actually, you know, that I think about it, I think it was really when The Zone was born. Because up until then,

it was just like... That was the first time I think we had really when the zone was born. Because up until then, it was just like, that was the first time I think we had our own set. Like our set was we'd put these panels, these crappy panels. Like Bristol boards, like your science project? There's these giant things we'd put over the daytime set with all the crafts and all that stuff. We just put these blinders on the back and that was the zone for a while.

And, uh, but this, now we had a new studio and the zone actually had like colors. It was blue and orange and had a logo. And then, and some, and I guess they thought to keep fucking puppets.

And honestly, I thought I really wanted the puppets to be over with. Cause I was in my twenties and I'm still a kid, but I want to be an adult and like you know it's pinocchio i want to be a real boy like and i thought you know i had ideas like i think i came up with this concept and i drew like it could be like a talk show you know what i mean like but no and then they rolled this this idea i was like and this is your puppet, and he came from space, and this whole illusion. Right when I thought it was over, it's like, oh, now I have to

pretend this TV is from space. That's like Godfather 3, man. You were broken away, and then they sucked you back in. So the grogs are gone. You're glad to get rid of the damn puppets. I'm going to describe it for people who don't know who Snit is, but Snit is a pair of moving teeth on a television screen

covered with what appeared to be purple bubble gum. Is that fair? Is that a good description? Yeah, that's what it was. He's from space. He's covered in purple bubble gum. Honestly, but I talk about it like that because I'm in myself at that moment,

and I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to talk to a puppet again. You initially then, well, let's hear you and Snit together and we'll talk about your relationship with Snit. And by the way, Snit is a tool. Wow. Okay.

Who's a professor at Mohawk College. Get out of here. And a great guy. Do his students know that he's Snit? That's what I want to know. Well, like they did when he first started, but now his students are like, oh, my parents know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My parents know about snit. That's what I want to know. Well, like they did when he first started, but now his students are like, oh, my parents know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's the 90s kids.

My parents know about snit. That's right. That's what's going to happen. That's right. Okay, let's hear Phil and snit. Wow, that was interesting, eh, having that officer in. Yes, it was. Let's talk about bullying.

Oh, really? Ooh. What do you mean, oh, really? You were here, bro. Of really? You were here, bro. Of course. You were here, bro. Okay, so Christmas is coming up. Are you ready?

Did you get all your shopping done? Most of it. Most of it? No, well, I got something to do today. What? Shopping. Oh, so who do you have to buy for still? We're very interested in knowing.

Believe me. Well, I i gotta buy something for a little snipper i gotta buy something for mama see this is the first time you've ever talked about your family i can't actually pause wow that's the first time he ever talked about his family well this is a time for family now isn't Yeah, because you know why. Everybody has a mother. Poor, poor, poor Atul. So this was me dealing with,

I don't want to talk to puppets anymore. So I only wanted to, I always constantly tried to break down the third wall, if you understand what that means. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're not from space. You drove here in a Toyota from Mississauga. That's the fourth wall right that's the fourth wall i think you're breaking on the fourth wall i don't know yeah the fourth wall so joined at the hip see like

i want him to talk about that he has to buy his mother yeah and then you're asking like you're trying to show how the sausage is made sort of yeah they don't want the kids to know how the sausage is i think i think and i think that i think kids love that not Not to talk about kids, but I think people love that when they watch because there's me and there's him. I remember the first time I tried to do it and he was flabbergasted. I think I was talking about his car. His rearview mirror came off

and he put it back on with gaffer tape and it was like an 84 Toyota. So I started talking as if Snit drove in today in his 84 Toyota. I was like like what happened to your rear view mirror I saw you like you put gaffer tape like you fixed it with gaffer tape and he's like what and it was constantly this kind of weird

battle like that and I make him laugh and here's the thing so I hated Snit I hated the idea of Snit when I talk about this I've told this story like the most evil thing I ever did at YTV was to sabotage the puppet oh wow oh yeah of snit um when i talk about this i've told this story like the most evil thing i ever did at ytv was to sabotage the puppet oh wow oh yeah i i like it was the everyone was out of the studio the lights were off i snuck in there like in between segments i took a a screwdriver and undid like

the the screw that held the joint of this arm, this robot arm that would go click, click like this. It would open and close. And if I take the screw off, it will fall off. So I undid this screw. And we went on. And sure enough, during the segment, he pressed the button. The arm goes flying off.

And I was like evil. You were abusing snit like yeah it was like i was like actually doing it to hurt someone i don't know just shitty evil and and then it happened and it made no difference and i felt bad and at some point you like you you send them into space right there's like you send snit back into space or something yeah that was that was unfortunate that was like when um they just didn't want and i wonder if i like but it worked it was such a it was such a great era of ytv and i i wonder it wasn't my decision to get rid of snit i think they just they were always constantly going in different directions and then at one

point when they wanted to go a different direction, I left. You know what I mean? Well, we're going to get to that because there's a whole Y2K compatibility thing going on. You're talking about the beginning of the end. Yeah. But, okay.

So, just generally speaking, these PJ days of YTV, do you think that could even happen today? Today, everything seems really super scripted and overproduced. But I love Snit, by the way.

Okay, so for the record, you're pro-Snit now. It took you a while to warm up to Snit. It did take a while. As soon as Atul and I became friends, it was great. Because then we understood each other. He understood why I was the way I was. And he, yeah, I mean, listen.

Whenever someone comes up to me and recognizes me, they ask about SNIT. It's one and the same. It's never, you know. It's like when they go up to Master T and they say, how's Roxy doing? Or Warren, yeah. But, yeah, SNIT is one and the same as The Zone, as I.

Yeah, you guys are, like, attached at the hip in terms of our memory banks anyway so so but but okay so could you could you today in like 2016 could you reproduce that it seemed kind of like a cool time like a bit of like a little improv in there and like young people sort of having a more control i mean you can't you can't recreate the environment that's the thing you can you can recreate what we were doing but you can't recreate the time right you can't recreate um what people needed or thought that they needed or what they actually had do you know what i'm saying and what tv like that type of type of tv what it would look like pre-internet versus what it would look like today because i think today like today the internet has kind of changed

the way people program. Oh, it's changed everything. It's changed everything. Okay, so I'll paint that picture with this, first of all. This is a 30-channel TV universe. And all the info you got for anything was at the library

or a magazine or television or what else? In slang encyclopedias, but they were always outdated. Yeah, you would get magazines. That's how I learned how to play guitar. I would take the bus to whatever. I'd go to a store that had Guitar Player magazine. I'd buy this magazine and learn tablature

and sit there and work for hours. That's how you got info. It's amazing now. But so that's the first thing. OK, so there's a 30 channel universe. You're young. You know, when I was young, I wanted to what music do I listen to? You want to become, you know, you're looking for your character. You're looking to discover yourself.

And if you have an older brother or sister, that's you go into the record collection that's what i did right my sister's record collection so if you don't have that you know channel 25 in a 30 channel universe when you're a kid is massive right it's massive to the point where yeah you know you you know stuff had value right and but mind you back then you're still playing sports. Excuse me. You're still reading. You know what I mean? You're still doing things. Sure.

You're going out to buy records. But there's something to be said. When you have to actually go to a store and buy a magazine, it's almost like because you had to work to access the info, it's almost like you take it more seriously.

It's almost like today I find it's too easy to get the guitar chords. Everything's right there and it's almost like you you take it more seriously it's almost like today i find that's the value it's almost too it's too easy to get the guitar chords like everything's right there and it's almost like you don't have to work for it that's what i mean where stuff needs to have value right right when it's too available and there's too much but this genie is not going back in the bottle like the pandora's box is open um i you know it's it's it's kind of like this like young people need to realize you can get things from these other things that you're not going to get from the internet. And as soon as you experience them,

you'll realize that you will actually release endorphins and feel good. And I think that's what this vinyl thing is because kids are collecting vinyl that had nothing to do with vinyl when they don't remember when it was around, like we do. You know what I mean?

Yeah, that's interesting to me. Yeah they're even if they're ordering it on amazon or whatever they still have to take the record out of the jacket they have the artwork in front of them spin the black circle they have to take yeah they have to take the needle off the thing you're doing something you're not just rubbing your thumb against a screen that's right there's no stories there it's like you know you could have a great story about when you went and took the bus and you went and bought this Prince album and you met someone. But it's also that. Like, you're around people.

Do you know what I mean? Like, you're on the bus. You're around people. You're in a park. You're around people. You're at a record store. Couldn't agree more. You're with people that have shared interests, but physically close to them.

And you can talk to them. Do you remember, and of course you will remember this, but do you remember the anticipated releases, like the day they'd come out? You remember going downtown to pick it up opening day? Use Your Illusions is a good example. Oh, yeah. I remember. And if they didn't have it, you'd go to A&A. Well, A&A was there, Sam's was there,

and H&B, and you just go, whoever's got it cheapest, basically. Yeah, whoever got it cheapest are available. Yeah, Sunrise was there, too. But you could always just say, screw it, and just pay the extra three it cheapest basically whoever got it cheapest are available but you could always just say screw it and just pay the extra three bucks and then get it somewhere else

where they have a ton and they're not cheap you know that's what it was like but there's value there there's value in that that's why my vinyl collecting

is all a treasure hunt because I know if I just start I don't want to make it easy I don't want to go to the record store and buy the Prince album I want to find it at Value Village I want to make it easy. I don't want to go to the record store and buy the Prince album.

I want to find it at Value Village. I want to find it at a garage sale for two bucks because that's what I'm getting out of it. I'm getting the thrill. And I'll tell you, Mike, I've gone to, I think it was Value Village, and I scored three Bowie albums

and two Led Zeppelin albums and a Ramones album and Pink Floyd. And you should have seen, I scored like three Bowie albums and two Led Zeppelin albums and a Ramones album and Floyd. And you should have seen. Yeah, because it's not just the destination, the journey. The journey. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, and I almost didn't go into this, this value.

I was there yesterday and I only went back in because I thought, you know what? I should check it again. And I did. I spent like 40 bucks. That's, you know, or $50, you know,? I should check it again. And I did. I spent like $40 or $50. So that's like 25, 30 albums. And I tallied it all up on Discogs and I took average prices

and the whole collection was worth about $700. I spent about $40, $50. That's great. So that's a story. Then you buying the new Beyonce album. Yeah. And then I took my phone out. And then I you buying the new Beyonce album. Yeah. And then I took my phone out. And then I went to the Pirate Bay.

I unlocked it. And I punched those four numbers. And then I said, yes. Everything's too easy. And then I put in my password. And then I said, yes. And now I'm listening to it by myself. That's right. And the experience is over.

Now I need to do something else. That's right. And the experience is over. Now I need to do something else. That sucks, man. Speaking of doing something else, so you're at YTV for, I don't know, at least 10 years. You were at least a PJ for 10 years, like a decade. And then they do this storyline, I guess,

where you're not Y2K compatible. That was their idea of like, well, you guys are leaving, so let's keep the fourth wall up. Why did you want to leave or did they tell you, I think we're done here? What exactly happened that you would depart

at the end of the 90s? No, I'll tell you. I'll tell you, actually. My second last year, no, my last year at YTV wasn't supposed to happen. and it almost didn't happen i went in i went because i i like you know it kind of like i'm very lucky to do what i did but when you reach a point in your life i'm i'm now in my late 20s and i've been doing the same thing for nine years which is a lifetime in your 20s and you think the road goes on forever you

know you're stupid you're like well not stupid And you think the road goes on forever. You know, you're stupid. You're like, well, not stupid, but you know, the road looks like this. It looks like a point like this. And you know, and I, but, but not only that I was bored, you know, there were no new skills to learn. And I know something. And the years since I know something about myself, I need to constantly be, uh, you know, my, my sponge needs to be filled. Like I need to be learning something new. I want to try and be the best at something or, you know, something I haven't learned or see someplace I haven't seen. Do you know what I mean? I totally get it.

I don't care if it's installing a toilet or whatever, but I love doing that kind of stuff. And like I'm looking over here and you, and I could install your washer-dryer. I know that all I need is a hot water line and an electrical, and I can run the pipes. I've done that. I might have to work for you when you're done. Yeah, I've renovated a kitchen. So I've done stuff.

I can string a tennis racket. I've been in a band. That's the whole other stuff after YTV. You know what I mean? So now I'm in a tennis racket. I've been in a band. That's the whole other stuff after YTV. You know what I mean? So now I'm in my 20s. I don't like coming into work anymore. I get up. I'm like, ugh.

And that's a crappy place to be, especially if you're doing what you love. And the other thing was, it wasn't like the show went down or anything. It was at its peak. So the last... I went in for a. It was at its peak. So the last... I went in for a contract negotiation during contract negotiation time.

And I was ready to leave. And that's the best... That's the other thing. When you actually don't care, it's the best bargaining chip. And I went in there thinking, if they don't take it, I'm good. I'll just start acting because I need to do something else. Or whatever. I don't care. You know what I mean good. I'll just start acting because I need to do something else or whatever.

I don't care. You know what I mean? And I went in and my poor boss, Mellie New York, she's gone. God bless her. God bless her soul. I hit her up with this number. And we were friends. Like, we were like, I always made her laugh.

We were like friends. We'd go out to lunch, you know. And I gave her her laugh. We were like friends. We'd go out to lunch, you know, and I gave her this number. And she just looked at me like, give me a second. And she left the room. And I was like, good, you know, it's finally over. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And she came back and she was like, okay, I talked to them. We're going to have to move a few things around, but we can do it wow and i was like oh you should have doubled that number no but you know like totally and then it was only three days a week it was like it's it's it ended the way it started i was coming into three days a week i was on five days but i pre-taped you know um and it was a year of that. It was like a slow day. Like, so I already knew that it was, we already knew that that was it. Okay.

When I started my last year, I knew, I knew it was over. So that's why it was okay. And that's why they knew too that, you know, like you guys are going to be Y2K, but like they almost planned for it like a year before. I think that would work perfect for a kid. Like they would just, you would just be gone and they would say, oh, well, because they weren't Y2K compatible. It would be a nice, gentle way to... Yeah, that was their way of doing it.

Paul and I, we were both leaving at the same time. We really didn't have... We thought it was kind of dumb to not give them any kind of warning to just kind of, we're gone. And then I think it was... Because you're like their babysitter. You're like their friend. Yeah, and then all of a sudden one day we're gone right that could be traumatic

yeah but i mean how how do you do it i mean what's what's the what sopranos finale are you going to be satisfied with you know who did blues clues they sent the guy off to college okay you know why because i have a 14 year old so he grew up on blues clues they had a guy steve and they're like oh steve's going to college i remember very well and then they brought because he he was losing his hair this is the real story he was losing his hair and he didn't want to lose his hair on blues clues or something like that he went on to form a band too so let's get into post ytv action here first i'm gonna play a clip we talked about i call him retro ontario you call him ed but i'm gonna play a clip from ed about you, I call him Retro Ontario, you call him Ed, but I'm going to play a clip

from Ed about you. So this is a few episodes ago. I forget the number, but here you go. You know, you mentioned Ron Oliver's directing in LA now. The guy from The Buzz is based in LA right now.

I do love Ron Oliver. This is a serious brain drain issue. Come on. Well, I'll tell you a funny story. Where I work now, it's a production company in liberty village uh it's i produce short form video content for a website called sessions x that's me and one of the hosts that we have is is pj phil and so quite often i'm out in the field with him and he does sort of street interviews. We stop people and ask them what their favorite bands are and what their favorite albums are. And it is absolutely amazing going out in the field with that guy because everybody knows him.

Yeah, they all love him. It's like a rock star. You know, like people are yelling out of cars. Older people are like, you know, my kids grew up watching you. Young people know. Like everybody knows PJ Phil. Yep. Yet he's, you know, he's grew up watching you. Young people know, like everybody knows PJ Phil. Yep. Yet he's, you know, he's not a huge guy.

Like if PJ Phil was in an American program or was an American host on Nickelodeon or something, it would be a different situation. Yeah, absolutely. You should get him on, by the way. And here you are. So thank you, Ed, for hooking me up with Phil. So on that note, though, he's right.

Like, you're doing this, and we're going to play a clip soon, but you're doing the Session X Velvet Rope Line, it's called. So you're doing that with Ed. Awesome. But he's right. If you were like a Nickelodeon or something and the same kind of thing, this would be like you'd be a megastar. Am I right?

Like this is some Canadian thing where we eat our young. I don't know. No, I mean, that's a funny thing. And I think, and I got to get together with Ed the Sock. I can hook you up with him. Yeah, I know he has that sort of, you know, I don't, God, I don't, I never think of it that way. It would be nice to have more money,

but I did the money thing. If you take my life, I'll try and explain it so it makes sense. I mean, I've since found my state of happiness. I don't dwell on stuff like that, on what people think where I should be, and I've led a great life. I could die like

literally i mean i don't want to go alone on an elevator but i mean i could literally die tomorrow and i have absolutely no regrets because i feel like i've lived several lifetimes so i mean so let's talk about the money thing i mean i've listened i had money i was in my 20s the first car i bought was a porsche i a stupid kid. Get out of here. Yeah, like my first car... I would never have guessed that. ...was like a... It was a 944 Turbo.

And I drove to Montreal once in three and a half hours. Oh, wow. I was so stupid with that car. My license got suspended like four times. Oh, because you were over 50K. If you go over 50K, you get a court, right? I was just crazy in that car. Like, just nuts.

And that's what happens when you give a kid a car like that i'm lucky i didn't kill myself or other people you could have been james dean man you know i had that life and i was like i was in a fashion so i was shopping in whole renfrew every like we you know it's just ridiculous like ridiculous and you know i didn't drink or do drugs then so that was like my vice that was like my my my vice was spending money i would like i said like i had boxes of shoes from over you know what i mean like i it was ridiculous that's how i see how the money thing was and um and i compared to the rest of my life when i was kind of this when i when i was living in la and i had no money the rest of my life when I was kind of this, when I, when I was living in LA and I had no money,

I did some of the most amazing things of my life during that time. I'll tell you. And so, I mean, that's why I look back at it. It's, it's, it's a very kind of one dimensional kind of way. It's like, just because you're on TV, you have to be this or else you're, you're not a success. So it's, it's your definition of success. Of course. And I'll tell you, when I was poor in L.A., I was going to parties with Paris Hilton and running into Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie. And I was going to after parties at some house, you know, in the Hollywood Hills, where you find out, oh, who is this guy?

Oh, he's one of two brothers. One brother owns Tropicana Juice and the other brother owns Umex, which is this huge, rich Mexican family. And they've opened up modern museums in Mexico City. So I'm at this guy's house. It's like two in the morning.

There's a butler serving champagne and cigarettes. These little dogs running around. And I'm standing in front of, if you know anything about modern art, a Damien Hirst and, oh my God, the urinal. God, I forgot that guy's name. You know, and an original Warhol,

like millions of dollars worth of art. And I can touch it. And, you know, like this is when i had nothing right when i was shopping at goodwill and and throughout my like i i noticed that in la like huh you can have you can have this excellent lifestyle and not be famous and not be rich and i've had that do you know what i mean i i lived that and i was like wow i'm having the best fucking time. You know what I mean? I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. We'd have to delve into what I did after YTV.

Well, you can tell me, yeah. I mean, tell us what you did after YTV. Okay, so literally, it was amazing. I acted here for two years, okay? And when I say act, I was like, I got an agent. I was on TV for 10 years. No acting experience. Never been on stage.

Couldn't do a Shakespeare play. I did that kind of acting. When people tell you they're an actor, it's like, well, okay, did you do Stratford? And even if you haven't heard of them, it's like, that's an actor to me. If it's these actors, quote unquote, it's like, come on.

Because I've done that acting where you just say a line and say a couple of lines. It's just bullshit. Yeah, you get a line in Murdoch Mysteries. Yeah, you're not going there. I will remain lost. You know, you're not playing a character. You know, you're not acting. So I did that for a couple of years and I booked gigs. I was in the Ladies' Man movie, a Saturday Night Live movie, Making Out With a Girl.

I was in Relic Hunter. You know, I did a VH1 movie of the week i did two seasons of a nickelodeon cartoon called pelswick i uh i can't remember the jobs i did i did a ton of stuff and then i did a movie yeah it was this vh1 movie the week i have the dvd i forgot what it's called. And Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels was big back then. So we're shooting this thing, and I have one line. I delivered a Peter Outeridge. And I can't remember what the line was,

but I did it in the Cockney accent because everybody's doing Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels. So the director's like, that was great. Do it like that on the day. So we shoot this scene. I remember Master T was in the scene too. Master T, who I coincidentally mentioned earlier in this episode. Yeah, Master T was in this scene.

And it's like a scene at a nightclub and we're shooting at RPM. And Peter Outerich comes out. And I'm at the screening of this thing at deluxe studios right the screening of the of the movie of the cut movie and my line comes up and this is what i hear i deacon oh mate but who's that and i just like hit fine you know that you hide behind your your turtleneck and you're like oh my god that was awful i quit that was it like i i didn't wow i like that was it i'm not doing this anymore like unless unless i take acting class and really take this seriously and this is the theme of everything i did after if i don't take

this seriously i don't want to do it because if my thing is even if you're learning how to make chairs like you want to be the Leonardo da Vinci or whatever. The best damn cheer maker on the planet. Or don't even try. Go big or go home. Go big or go home. You may not, and that's okay too, but don't do it being half-assed about it.

I'm with you. I'm going to be the best. So yeah, quit acting. Okay, so now my thing is, okay, I'm, I'm gonna move to LA, I'm gonna start, like, thinking about moving to LA, so I start visiting there, and trying to get an agent, I'm talking to this lady at, like, one of the top three agents, um, ICM, it goes William Morris, CAA, ICM, I get them to write me a letter, I get John Cassidy to write me a letter at, um, Chorus, uh, I was trying to get J.R. Shaw to write me a letter, get john cassidy to write me a letter at um chorus uh i was trying

to get jr shaw to write me a letter because i met him a few times anyway so i get my visa together i finally moved there uh you know and i did all kinds of stuff you know i was i was auditioning um for acting roles and and stuff like that but i mean in the meantime there was like i tried my hand at i was i was in a band i play guitar for for a band and toured the States with this goth band. This is me like after the dream of Guns N' Roses was dead when you were 17. And then you talk to puppets in your 20s. Now at 33 or whatever, a band says, hey, we kicked out our guitar player. Do you want to do this?

And that happened because I knew this guy from Stomp who I met. He came to Toronto. We interviewed him. And they were here for months at a time and I became friends with these American artists and take them out playing golf, take them to the nightclubs and we became friends. And when I eventually moved to L.A., they were my basis of friends, these Stomp guys, one of which was Jar Jar Binks. That's another story. Get out of here. Yeah. Ahmed Best is a buddy of mine out in LA. He's part of our little gang. So the one guy, Ivan,

was the drummer of this band called Braised in Black. It was like a semi-famous goth industrial band. They kicked out the guitar player. Ivan knew me. He told his singer, I know this guy. He's moving here. He knows how to play your guitar parts because he comes from the heavy

metal thing like we did and um yeah and he's filipino and he's phil and the the prince of this band the guy that writes all the music is a um is filipino so now i'm in this filipino band in the states originally from hawaii now i'm the new guitar player. And we go on tour. Two and a half months from Toronto to Montreal. I'm sorry, L.A. to Montreal, back to L.A. Two and a half months, 45 shows. Last show in Honolulu. I did that after YTV. And I said to him, you know, first off,

you have to have the guts to do something like that. To say, like, okay, because I didn't know what I knew. I knew how to play guitar and I love guitar. Never been on tour before. I don't even know how to lift something heavy you know what i mean which is one of the skills right you need when you tour so i do this and then i i got addicted to like reinvention i got addicted like wow i made money playing guitar for a band these kids didn't know who i was now they now they know me as the guitar player from raised in black and they're like wow that was amazing can i get your audio like it was just

it blew my mind dude like mike it blew my mind and then i was like wow i could do whatever i want so now i'm living in la and i was trying you know you try and busy yourself while you're waiting for auditions and living out there. This other thing that happened was, well, I tried stand-up. That was one thing. So I was like, I'm going to do stand-up. I can do that while I'm out here. And my first stage was the Comedy Store on an amateur night.

I got to play, like, the three big stages in L.A., my stand-up. I did the Comedy Store, the Improv On, on Melrose, and the La, the improv on, on Melrose and the laugh resort on sunset. That was the last time I ever did it. And, um, and, and I quit that too because I was like, you know, comedy is to the standup comedy.

Same thing. Two, four, seven. You have to live, breathe. You have to go up. You have to bomb.

You have to rewrite. You have to be comfortable. You have to get confidence up there. You have to have a joke that sucks and then something happens where oh they laugh and then you rewrite it like that takes years like these 40 minute comedy acts you hear these guys do take at least a year to put together or maybe two of doing the same jokes over and over and learning and you know it's it's a tough gig and they are pricks. They want you to fail.

They want each other to fail. I hate to say it. I'd go to these amateur nights. It's just other comics. And they look at you like, no. I'm like the Canadian, like, ah, woo, you're good. And the other guys just want the other guy to fail. It's a tough life.

I did that too. So I did the band thing. I tried stand-up. This other thing I did, which went crazy was, um, this homeless guy on Hollywood Boulevard was selling DVDs. And he's like,

yo, you want to buy some DVDs? I was like, what do you have? And he had this Iron Maiden number of the beast, um, album, like,

like the DVD of how they made number of the beast. At the end of this, they, they, like, they talk about like how they made the album, but the end of this is like, um how they made the album, but at the end of this, this 10-minute documentary

some BBC show did on Iron Maiden. Basically, this new thing called the New Wave of British Heavy Metal happening in 1982 when punk and disco was big at the time, and there were these nerds called heavy meddlers going to see a band,

some unknown band called Iron Maiden. Right. And this is the beginning of it all. And you see these kids with the long hair. They look like nobody else. They're total nerds. And they go to this Iron Maiden, get in this tiny club. And you see them.

You know, it's that legendary show. Like, if you were there, you were at that show in Birmingham, you know. Yeah. So it's this documentary on that. And, you know, they all had those jean jackets with the studs and like Van Halen patches and whatever absolutely so I was like fuck I'm gonna make myself one of those so I go downtown LA to the fashion district buy all the materials try and figure out how to make this jacket and I'm like well I want to make it the way I want

to make it and I had some fashion background, a bit of it, because I just got kicked off this stylist reality show called Stanley with Rachel Hunter. We shot in New York. They flew me from L.A. to New York. Shot that. So, no, I had a background in fashion in that I was like a shopper where I would follow the trends every six months and two new pairs of shoes every six months.

It's like that, right? Back when fashion was like that, spring, summer, fall, winter, you know, it'd be like, oh, you know, black and white zippers are in. I have to get something with a black and white zipper. So I used to do that and I spent a ton of money and now I have no money.

So now I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to wear, you know, I'm going to do whatever. So I made this jacket, right? This Iron Maiden jacket, studs everywhere, but I made it perfect. And I put like Swarovski crystals. This is during 06, during the time of like

true religion jeans and really expensive casual made this reared its ugly head and celebrity driven marketing for clothes and stuff like that. So now I'm a stylist. I did this stylist show and I learned about styling which is styling is this thing where in fashion you know, if you follow these certain rules, you can't

go wrong. So silhouettes really like, this sounds boring, but silhouettes really important. You know, silhouette is just your outline and do you look good? And like that is like short torso, long legs, you know, you'd want to look you know, and you can do that with clothes, with colors, with stripes, stuff like that. So if you understand styling, you can always kind of be

fashionable. So now I'm poor and I'm buying my clothes at Goodwill and I still have some stuff that I kept, like my Gucci boots and stuff like that from way back when. And now I'm in LA trying to be like, like discovered. I make this Ironman jacket. Nobody's wearing it. So I go out to these clubs and without fail, it's always celebrities coming up to me asking me, where did you get that jacket? And I tell them, I made it. And you're hustling, right? So they say, oh, are you a fashion

designer? And you say, yeah, I am. You know? And it's like, okay. And you should see the phone numbers in my phone. I have Paris Hilton's assistant. I have Benji Madden, Rob numbers in my phone. I have Paris Hilton's assistant. I have Benji Madden. Rob from Big and Rob. I have Christina Milian.

It is crazy. So I got into fashion when I was out in LA. So now I'm making these jackets. And I met this guy, Tramiel, this great guy from there. He's this gay little black guy. He's just the best and um he started repping my pr and and now we're going to these things he's getting me to these parties and like this thing's starting to go and i start making more jackets i get more money to make more jackets and and the people i was meeting and connecting with like i was at christian this party christian autigay's 50th birthday party, was held at the Peterson Automotive Museum on Wilshire.

This is where Biggie Smalls got shot outside of. Or, yeah, Biggie Smalls got shot outside of Peterson coming from a party. So I go to this party. This thing is massive. There's open bars everywhere. There's two big rooms, like the ice room and the fire room, and Snoop Dogg's performing in the fire room. And then Fergie's going to, like the ice room and the fire room, and Snoop Dogg's performing in the fire room,

and then Fergie's going to be in the ice room, and I'm standing next to Pauly Shore, and it's like one of those big Hollywood parties. I give my number to a William Morris agent who handles Britney Spears, and I can't even remember who these teen stars. So I'm at this party, and it's just crazy. So all of a sudden thriller comes on and then the lights go down stuff starts falling from the ceiling and and um i'm like no

so we run to the stage and the stage was like this massive stage with a catwalk going down the room and a small stage at the front we go to the small stage at the front sure enough michael jackson comes out with christian audigy and you can't even hear him because people are screaming and everyone's phones are up taking pictures and he's like hey happy birthday christmas day it's a pleasure to come out here christian audigy and they walk up the catwalk yeah and um god bless my pr guy tramell he would bring his like family from the hood like his auntie like would come with us to these like these hot parties and so michael jackson starts walking

towards us down the catwalk and ends up on the small stage we're standing right in front of him tramell's aunt like you know there's like the ropes and the posts around the stage she's crawling up she hits one of the ropes and they start going ding ding ding the post like through the ropes she's crawling towards michael jackson we're laughing so hard we can't stop her you know this sounds way more exciting than talking to oh i'm telling you and this is stuff when i was poor struggling in los angeles you know now i'm a fashion designer and now i ended up being Little Mama's stylist on the Warner Brothers lot

preparing her clothes for the America's Best Dance Crew finale. You know, I was, you know, so I always, I found out how to rediscover myself. Two things,

real quick, because there was a lot there, but the idea that every six months you bought the two pairs of shoes. I buy two pairs of shoes every six years. That's my way of going.

So I couldn't quite relate to that but i appreciate that my wife likes the fashion actually i hate it now no but now you don't now i wear everything this shirt i this i got an american peril in maybe 2004 now it's holes and um you know this the sweater i got from my dad this i think i stole these pants like It's not like that anymore. Those socks I got in a gift bag. And I'm debating in my head, what was better, your Andy Frost impersonation

or your Michael Jackson because they were both pretty spot on. Oh, yeah. Have you heard my George Takei? I would love to. Okay, so when we did Anti-Gravity, I got a lot of stories actually. I should write a book.

When we did Anti-Gravity Room, one time I flew out to L to um shoot uh like the intros like the the anti-gravity room segments with george takei this is before he came out too before that book um to the stars anyways so he comes in and the first thing that happens was the the production assistant um his name is george takei she says mr takai can i get you um a bottle of water or something and this is what he says he says actually it's pronounced takei but you can say takai as long as you know what it means takai means expensive and I don't come cheap so he's the oddest dude I spent four hours

with this guy running lines back and forth and I remember one of the questions I asked him was so George there's a rumor that in the next Star Trek movie there might be a Captain Sulu and he says well I haven't heard anything,

but the idea sounds tantalizing. That's good. Yeah. Because I listened to the Howard Stern show and he was a regular on that show. That's when he got cool. Oh my. He always sounds very confused. He's always

looking at his watch like, so at one point he's looking at his watch, like, I need. So at one point, he's looking at his watch. He goes, I need to make a phone call. We're like, okay, George. And he's like, okay. And so we're in this theater. He goes out to the lobby of the theater, like a place theater.

And he's gone for, like, ten minutes. We go outside, and he's standing there, standing in front of a desk looking at something on the desk like this he's you know that pondering like hmm and we go George are you okay and he's like oh yes I'm just trying to figure

out where the receiver is on this phone George that's an adding machine right this is a true story. That's great. You know, with the tape roll. That's real? That's real.

That really happened. I just tried. It's a calculator. So I got to work on this impression all day. So my producer at the time, her name was Sheila. She was living in L.A., but she's from Toronto. She's now relocated there. I call her at her house, her name was Sheila. She was living in L.A., but she's from Toronto. She's now relocated there. I call her at her house in Brentwood or wherever.

I call her up the next day. She's like, hello? I said, hello, Sheila? She said, yes. George Takei. Oh, hi, George. I was wondering, that Filipino interviewer from yesterday. Yes?

Well, I would very much like to have sex with him. She couldn't say anything. I would very much like to have sex with him. She couldn't say anything. I would very much like to have sex with him. And this is before I even knew he was gay. I just had a... The gaydar went off? It went off. You know, food adjectives are a big, I think,

to describe non-food. I had a delicious tennis game the other day. That's a sign. And the weather was just mouth- other day. That's a sign. The weather was just mouth-watering. That's right. That's a good to tell. You're going to have to come back at some point

to do more stories. I never ever do this. You should hear my post-YTV story. No, for sure. I'm going to play a clip from the Velvet Rope Line, which you're doing. This is what I do with Mr. Retro Ontario. Mr. Retro Ontario.

And the company that produces these is called Sessions X. Lightbox Video. Sessions X is the show. Let's hear how this sounds. So Ed sent me a clip. Let's hear it. I would have to say it's called Indie Dust

and IndieDust.com just because... Indie Dust? Yeah, even though it's called Indie Dust. Indie Dust? Even though it's called Indie Dust,

they have a lot of... Internet. I usually go to 8Tracks. 8Tracks? Yeah. Sweet. You know what that is? I don't.

Where do you get your music from? Oh, sweet. Yep. I have a friend named 40. He has a studio on Lakeshore. So we go there and we just browse around through music. And we have friends in L.A.

Woke up in L.A. Just radio, really. Yeah. 99.9, I guess. Ah, you're a pop guy. That's good for girls, too. They love that. This guy knows all about that.

I'm an iTunes type of girl. iTunes? Yeah. Yep. Serious. Serious XM, Liquid Metal is probably my go-to station. Yes, I've heard of Spotify. Do you collect records?

I do, yeah. Sweet, so do I. Yeah man, I go on YouTube all the time, you know. And how do you know what to look for? It's just a vibe, you know what I'm saying? See, I wake up and I have a song popping in my head and I just go find it, you know and how do you know how do you know what to look for it's just a vibe you know what i'm saying see i wake up and i have a song popping in my head and i just go find it you know really and it just leads to a next song and then leads to another song that's a good way of doing it yeah man that's the way we do it sweet soundcloud yeah soundcloud's really funny because it's just like

if you play a random song then like another song will just like come up from out of nowhere and you're like do i like this i don't listen to new music. I tell you, I don't. I don't either, actually. I find a lot of them very repetitive. It all sounds the same to me. And there's a ton of good old stuff still. I know you guys out there are going to say, oh yeah, you know, BS, right?

Here's the question. What was the big hit single in 2014? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly So streeter stuff You go to places like You would go to like Ford Fest And talk to Ford Nation

That was exciting I actually have the one of the I have the last Ford Fest shirt From when Rob was still alive I'm lucky to get that Yeah you know We were just doing streeters Which is sort of I like it because it's sort of Who cares about people on TV and Rob was still alive. I'm lucky to get that. Yeah, you know, we were just doing Streeters,

which is sort of, I like it because it's sort of, who cares about people on TV? Let's get people on TV. Well, people like reality and real stuff now, it seems like. Yeah, it's interesting stuff. Get people on there. Real quick, I have to tell everybody that, so Google Play Music,

which is like the Google competitor for iTunes, has added podcasts, and this has only happened in the last week in fact uh some people still haven't updated google play on their android device to get this new release but those who have podcasts you can now subscribe to toronto mic'd on google play so that's a new thing in the podcast world money so the android guys yeah it's very lucrative um the The Android guys were kind of missing that native app, if you will, for their devices because you have iTunes on the Apple side and now

you got... Get on it, people. So do that. Hey, and you follow sports at all? Do you know Steve Simmons from the Toronto Sun? Does this name resonate with you? Is he one of the writers? He's been writing there since 87. Ooh. Because for the first... And I've never done that i always have

like one episode a week i produce but steve simmons uh wanted to come in during your time slot and i said no because uh pj fresh phil has that time slot and i'm doing phil and then so he's actually i said who he said who how is that i'm like ask your son who that is maybe he'll tell you but uh i thought you might almost cross in the hallways here because he's like coming on soon. That's why I have to have you back. Yeah. But it was...

I'd love to come back. Free beer. Make sure, yeah. But that's not only it. It's also your charisma. I have a little charisma. Just enough to be dangerous. This was amazing because, like I said,

moshing with you in the early 90s at the Phoenix, and we would all talk, hey, that's PJ Freshville, and all these years later, you're in my basement answering my questions about SNIT and grogs, and it sounds like this adventure you had in L.A., post-YTV, was pretty damn fun. It was great, and totally undocumented. That's the thing.

Everybody really doesn't know what happened, but it was one of the most exciting times of my life. So why did you come back? My visa ran out, and my son moved out of his mother's house in Kitchener and wanted to come live in Toronto, so that had a big to-do with it. And he was going through his teenage years,

so daddy came home. Yeah, people might be surprised that you have a 22-year-old son. I don't think people would know that. No, he's 22 now. People have you frozen in their mind as the PJ in the 90s, so you're kind of frozen

as a 20-something-year-old guy. Kind of, and apparently I still look all right for my age, which is now 44. And yeah, so that helps bring it back for everybody, I guess. I don't know. You look good, man. I look, I feel good, man. Not ready to go in an elevator yet. Well, if it's in your house.

I hope not. I'm going to even like, I'm going to replace that beer. You're going to go home with a full. Oh, no, don't worry. No. How many more of us will they take? And that brings us to the end of our 169th show. You can follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Toronto Mike and Phil is at PJ Fresh Phil. But spell fresh with an F. Yes. Not a PH. No. I'm going to find out what it's supposed to be. That'll be my homework this week. And I'll also be moshing Monday nights at the Phoenix Club so come check me out. Can you give me a little Andy Frost on the way out? You got a little Andy Frost in you?

Last call for cock. Tails. Actually, can I tell you one quick story? I introduced him to Paul McGuire once. And Paul McGuire said, oh, nice to meet you. And you know what he said to Paul? He said, thank you. I still bug Paul about that.

See you all next. And by the way, by next week, I mean, another episode is recording in like 10 minutes. So see you all later today. But this kind of snow Wants me to dance And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is Rosy and green Well you've been under my skin

For more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter And eight years of tears