Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ralph Benmergui and Hawksley Workman: Toronto Mike'd #727

Episode Date: September 29, 2020

Mike is joined by both Ralph Benmergui and Hawksley Workman while Ralph kicks out the jams and Hawk and Mike react.

Welcome to episode 727 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. pumpkins after dark save 10% with the promo code. Mike, M I K E D CDN technologies, your outsourced it department, write me and let me introduce you to Barb Paluskowicz, sticker you.com create custom stickers, labels,

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I'm Mike. From Torontoike.com and joining me this week to kick out the jams is the esteemed host of Not That Kind of Rabbi, my friend, Ralph Ben-Murgy. Um-ba-da-ba. Ben-her, as my sister used to be called in school. Oh, because Ben-Murgy, Ben-Hur.

Okay. Now you're getting it. I'm not as sharp as you, but I've learned a lot from you. I've been working with you for, I think, almost a year now. I don't know. It seems like a lot longer, but yes. How's that going for you so far, Ralph? You know what?

Lovely. Absolutely lovely. I do miss us hanging out together physically in terms of just being in the same room, but we're doing okay for pandemic stuff. And on that note, I've been recording in my backyard, but I simply couldn't convince you to make the trek from Hamilton to southwest Toronto to be in my backyard. I'm getting spoiled. I can sit in one place and do five different things

in five different parts of the world. We did on Not That Kind of Rabbi, we did Zane Kaplansky, and he was in Tofino, BC. And it was effortless. Right. Okay, I can't compete with that. You're right.

But if you had come into my backyard, I'd be giving you some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. They're good partners of the show. I'd be giving you frozen lasagna from Palma Pasta, and I'd be giving you, I know you love this, your Toronto Mike sticker from StickerU.com.

I usually put that on my forehead to cover my third eye. Ralph, just off the top, before I introduce, because this is exciting to me, I haven't revealed this on Twitter who it is. There is a special guest on this program joining you to critique your jams with me.

Critique them? Yeah. My God, that's frightening. And I basically like surveyed the world. Whose musical opinion do I trust the most? Robert Goulet. Bottom line is, all those people whose musical opinion I trust, I couldn't get any of them to come on Toronto Mic'd.

So I found somebody in Peterborough. But just before I get to that, how are you holding up? We're like seven months into this pandemic nonsense, and it's not done with us yet. How is Ralph Ben-Murgy holding up? Better now because the kids are in school. So God loved my children, all four of them, but the two who are still school-aged, I was with them every single day for seven months. I did not have an hour to myself, literally not an hour. So far, so good. So far, so safe. And we're a very cautious family. And I don't like when people talk about, oh, I'm not paranoid. I'm going to do things. And you're all overreacting. This is a serious thing.

I got a 96-year-old mother. This is a serious thing. Don't mess with it. Just shut up. Stay, stay away from people when you don't have to be close to them right now. It'll be over if we, if we do that. And if we don't, it won't. So watching people push against that, but psychologically, you just want to hang with your friends and do things. I get it, but let's not be a toddler nation here. Let just you know just do this we're not finished with it it's it's good it's coming back strong and it's going to be weird uh make make sensible safe choices like maybe don't you don't need to go to your backyard no that's not fair not fair ralph you walked into it you walked into it in my backyard if you had if you were in my backyard uh yes we would be

a we'd be outside what great ventilation outside uh b where i measured it uh from where i sit and where you sit we're 10 feet apart all right fine i just don't you know a lot of very amazing a lot of amazing canadians have been in my backyard this summer, and more are still coming. But I make an exception for you. You're in Hamilton, but I got to get to our special guest. You're a special guest, but we have another special guest from Peterborough, the patch, as I call it. My friend, can I call you my friend?

Yeah. Okay, good. I want to make sure. The hawk himself, Hawksley Workman. Boom. Woo! Hey! Boom.

Hey, you guys. If you intro him as the Hawk, you realize you're going another way. What you do, yeah, and also there's a frequent guest. A frequent guest on this program is Ron Hawkins from Lowest of the Low. No, no, and then there's romping Ronnie Hawkins. Also, he's a local too.

That's right. How's he doing? Does anyone know? Have we done a wellness check on the hawk? The guy who installed my conduit electrical system here in my new studio apparently has done some electrical work at Ronnie's house and says that Ronnie's kicking just fine right okay that's great that's for sale that home that he uh his famous home up there is for sale i think oh is that right i think so but how are you doing hoxley workman yes uh one of

canada's finest musicians uh still producing amazing music uh i get a lot of time for you how have you been holding up during the pandemic? Pretty good, pretty good, pretty good. You know, when we chatted before, the three of us, I was living in my father-in-law's basement because we hadn't found a suitable home. And then we did. And then it was the longest closing that has ever been issued in the history of real estate.

And then we finally were allowed to be in the actual adult house where like people who are in their 40s go to live and it's absolutely incredible and then we built this great little spot here and man I'm yeah I've had some bluesy moments because there are times where I think is music over like is culture like is it how long is this pause like i.e. should I be coming up with some sort of backup plan I never had a backup plan I was one of those high school kids that was like a back a plan b is a reason to fail with your plan a so i never

had one you know yeah i was that guy people in acting would be waiters and i'd say well you know you're gonna end up a great waiter but i don't know how much work you're gonna get if you force yourself to work in the thing you you love then it comes totally agree and that was that was my my instinct from day one when I moved to Toronto from Huntsville all those years ago in the mid 90s so and here I am in my mid 40s and I mean I think it's just my reflex is to be provide a safe and protected place for me and my wife I'm really terrified of, I mean, I lived pretty lean in those early years. So, you know, although, you know, I'm not too, too afraid. I'm doing well.

What am I talking about? I'm doing great. I got to plead a little ignorance. What is the case numbers looking like in Peterborough? Like, do you have any active cases over there? Not many. I mean, in the early stages back in the spring, the biggest numbers we were seeing were like in a lot of places. We're in the long-term care homes.

And Bob Cajun, I think, was one of the first ones to sort of make headlines here in Ontario. And that's just down the street. But no, I think in terms of active cases, it's been kept very, very low the entire time. Are you avoiding Toronto the way Ralph Ben-Murgy is avoiding Toronto? Because we've got lots of cases. It's funny you say that because I went and booked myself some, you know, some socially distant meetings because, you know, the world is moving along and to some degree, we're all trying to do business at some level. And I was going to go into Toronto on Thursday and have a couple of socially distant hangouts but hearing Ralph talk about it it does make me I mean these numbers are

creeping up I know that contextually sometimes the media doesn't fill in all the blanks like these 700 numbers you know we're testing into the 40,000s of people right now back in uh March April when those when we had the numbers at 700 we were only testing 10,000 so I don't know you know I don't I'm not a numbers guy but but I do see that there is a correlation there that means that a per capita maybe things aren't quite what they were when we all started this but you know still cause for alarm. Like I'm kind of with Ralph on this. Like I I've, I I'm, I'm ready to kind of do what's necessary because I don't have any sort of political horse in this, any race here. Like I don't, I'm not a, I'm not pro or against like face masks. I'm like, look,

this doesn't really change my life too, too much. Why don't I just wear this damn face mask? I don't know. Yeah. Well, I'd say we live in a culture where nobody tells you what to do or that's our fantasy even though we're right you the george carlin uh bit that's uh floating around out there again where he talks about who really runs the united states of america the american dream uh piece he's got right fantastic because here we are with this illusion that hey i'm independent i do what i want and here's carlin god love carlin who's just like they don't give a fuck about you they do not

give a fuck about you and he just pounds it and goes for it and you're just like what have i been thinking that's exactly what's going on sometimes i feel because i mean he was an older person when he died but not old right like right there was he was in the 70s i think yeah he was like i feel like we could have really used his voice right now uh somebody cutting right through the shit um on a regular basis well john stewart was doing that really well and then he stopped doing his show but uh you know it's funny we turn to comedians for truth right the jester for truth it's funny i've been thinking a lot about that because i i saw somebody say something quite interesting because you know we're here to talk about music and musicians in

the 60s we were you know ostensibly the we were the you know the fulcrum of rebellion we were the the leading instinct when it came to you know drawing um drawing conclusions on the world we saw around us but i think you know music has been devalued and it's devalued itself and i think it's been it's been largely sort of repositioned in a very non-rebellious place in our society and the only people left acting the rebel are the comedians and they're the only ones who can't lip sync their thing like to do comedy it is still a meritocracy like you are either funny or you are not like there is no middle ground but even that culture has been in peril because of the the what you can and cannot say has become much stronger so when i

started in stand-up you know 40 years ago the whole point was to say uh and you spoke truth to power uh the more corporatized it became and the more we worry about saying the wrong thing i i you know uh you can't be the same provocateur in many cases. People are just like, you're not allowed to say that. And comedy doesn't work if you're not allowed to say it because the funniest thing is the truest thing that nobody's saying. That's the funniest thing, right?

Yeah, absolutely. A couple of quick questions about your visit to Toronto later this week, Hawksley. One is, are these meetings, I'm naturally curious, because I know how I'm living my life, and I'm being careful, but I do a lot of things outdoors. Are these meetings indoors, or outdoors? I have, I had, I mean, look, I don't want to sound overly impressive, but I, you know, Jenny sort of books these things for me, but I had asked that they be outside, that um but i you know i

played a couple of shows on the weekend and wore my mask for hours at a time so i'm not against you know covering up i guess but the whole idea was that i would go to toronto see people mask to mask uh in the out of doors okay because i noticed i wasn't put on the agenda like did j Jen forget to... It's terrible. I can't believe it either. You're in my backyard, for God's sake. Yeah, she just...

Well, it came up in the meeting because I was there. And it was Toronto Mike. Okay, pass. And then we kept moving. I just noticed... There was no malice. There was no malice. Huxley had a smile on his face when he said pass.

Hawksley's coming a long way and basically not even considering a meeting with Trotter. It was a really short part of the meeting. It was just pass, moving on. Even though now I'm angry at the man, I do want to hear about Hawksley Night

in Canada. I attended at least one, a complete Hawksley Night in Canada. Like I did, I attended at least one, like a complete Hawksley, and I was thoroughly impressed by the production values. Like it looked amazing and it sounded great. Tell us just a little bit about how the Hawksley Night in Canada's are going. Well, great. Man, I really appreciate you bringing it up

and we're still passionate about it. You know, it's funny. It's the most collaborative, artistic collaborative adventure my wife and I have been on. We obviously, we work together and do stuff. But typically, I'm the one responsible for the creative ideas. And she sort of puts it on the right highway and sends it on its way. But in this thing, we're really working together.

And I appreciate you commenting on the quality. In the early days of the pandemic, I had a lot of friends who were doing these online shows. And quite honestly, I didn't think that they were that interesting or they were interesting enough to warrant people coming back over and over and over again. So I also said to you before that I'd had a TV show in high school on my local cable network. And I still harbor a real excitement about local media. We actually just got cable TV, so I get to watch my beloved local Czechs TV and get in tune with all the local commercials and stuff.

That just makes me really happy because the world sort of gets bigger and I tend still to be sniffing around for the little bits. Amazing, amazing. And now I'm just reading the contract. Apparently this is a Ralph Ben-Murray episode, so I need to get back to him immediately, but don't go anywhere, Hugs. No, that's fine, Mike. Don't mind me.

It's in his writer here. I've got nothing better to do. It's fine. Ralph, you have and I would, I'm biased here, so I'm going to take my opinion out of this and just tell you. No, it's fine. I've had a lot of conversations recently

with Dana Levinson. Do you know Dana? Are you asking me? Yeah. I'm just asking you for the audience to hear the answer. I know the answer. I just did an episode with Dana Levinson on a new podcast on the DL. And I hear your wife and Dana go back somewhat.

They went to school together. Right. So Dana Levinson, and I believe she's being sincere because why would she lie to me? I'm her rabbi, by the way. She says she goes for long walks with her puppy or a new dog or whatever. And she listens to not Toronto Mike

and not Hawks United Canada, but she listens to Not That Kind of Rabbi with Ralph Ben-Murgy and she's absolutely in love with it. She's telling all her friends about it right now. That's a great podcast and I just want to make sure people know to subscribe. Just search Google for Not That Kind of Rabbi.

I just got this tip from Ralph. Look up the Huxley Workman episode because it was one of the best. So I loved that chat. I loved that chat. That's the origin. Go ahead. You know, when people are, are, are after we're finished and stuff, there seems to be, and there's nothing to do,

I'm not blowing my horn here. There just seems to be this feeling from some people is like, I never really get to talk about that stuff out loud. So that's what I love about doing it with people like you and just having people be able to articulate more than, you know, the career. And, you know, I have a real problem, for instance, with entertainment interviews where it's like, so how did you record that song? And, you know,

where did you get those lyrics? It's just like, oh, for God's sake, this is an artist. This is not so – well, I went to home hardware. It just doesn't work like that. Leave him alone. So you get a lot of that, process stuff. I want to talk about our producer because he's like, no, people at home don't care about who your producer was. They don't want to see who put the lights up.

They want the experience of your music. And that's what they really want. So I like when I'm doing the podcast, not that kind of rabbi. I like actually being in essence with people and in presence with people. And then beautiful things have been coming out of the guest. It's really wonderful. And that's the reason I have you two on together. It's not a random. I didn't go into a randomizer and then pop out a couple of names.

It was because when I was lucky enough to be in on the recording of the Not That Kind of Rabbi episode with Huxley Workman, you two really had this really nice connection. I really enjoyed listening to you guys go back and forth.

I think we talked about you guys coming into my backyard this summer. And then due to, you know, a variety of reasons, we decided, well, I decided that I'm going to have to do this on Zoom. So I had Ralph send me 10 jams we're going to kick out in a moment. And I kind of secretly, uh hook made sure hawksley could join us and then of course uh i realized uh that when i sent out the invitation with the zoom link both your email addresses were in the invitation and ralph very quickly surmised he's very smart and he very quickly realized oh oh, look, this has Huxley Workman in this calendar invitation.

Also, we scheduled it for the highest holiday in the Jewish calendar, Yom Kippur, which was yesterday. I suck. Which would have been rather inconvenient for a man fasting for 25 hours. Okay, let me ask you about that. Did you touch any electrical devices yesterday?

Well, I had to watch my synagogue uh do the service virtually so yes i had to get on but other than that were you on twitter no here's the other no no i did not get involved with twitters and facebooks and the usual uh and at the end of there's this last service that lasts about an hour called nila and at the the end of it, they blow a ram's horn, and that's when you can eat and drink water and things like that after 25 hours. But I was asked to come by the cantor and the rabbi, who were wonderful people, to the synagogue

where there was someone playing the piano who's wonderful and gifted. And I came with hand drums and accompanied them for the last hour so that was a great way to and and the 25 hours it's a fascinating thing to do to not eat or drink or drive not not to engage in life because the dominant culture of Canada is Christian and if you're a Jew in the middle of this holiday you are from another planet for that day. You walk by people who are just going about their business, eating and shopping and driving.

And you're from somewhere else. When you're in Israel, the Jew is the dominant culture in Israel. And there, the whole country shuts down. Right. It's like Christmas, right? So here, everybody takes for granted that everything shuts down at christmas well if you're jewish and living in a jewish home you know it's christmas and you can have people over i guess but it isn't your holiday it's when you're sort of doing with other people

because they're doing it well my apologies for i really do need to subscribe to the uh calendar of jewish holidays because i well there's so many of them but i booked i booked tmlx6 on rosh hashanah I really do need to subscribe to the calendar of Jewish holidays. Well, there's so many of them. But I booked TMLX6 on Rosh Hashanah. That's a mistake. I won't make that mistake again. I've been apologizing profusely ever since. And because I literally had to book for 6 p.m.

Apparently that's sundown when all the action happens, right? Era of Rosh Hashanah, the evening of Rosh Hashanah. Rosh's head, Shana is year, head of the new year. So I blew that one. And then right on the heels of blowing that one, I booked you on Toronto Mic on Yom Kippur. And when you booked me, I went and found a piece of canned ham and rubbed it on my face and said, this is Michael. This is what Michael does. And then i was okay so shanatova

and accept my humble apologies to you please no no apology necessary hoxley when i start kicking out these ben murgy jams if there's a song you absolutely hate or think is horrible you'll be honest with us right we'll get the real talk from you yeah i i can provide real talk yeah wow great way to start i just want to make sure if you hate his choices please feel you know pipe in i will say this really quickly because it's funny yesterday there's been a photo on the internet going around of johnny light and johnny rotten with a oh yeah make america great again thing and he's a trump supporter and everybody's all head over heels like oh oh my God, you know, my punk idol is dead. We all, here's the thing is that I, I didn't like any cool music in school. It's because I was a drummer and I preferred, you know, jazz and fusion music and

things that weren't particularly fashionable. And I was able from a young age to see that like a lot of people who listen to music listen because they want to belong to the tribe that that music is associated with. And I realized, oh oh man like i just don't have that need to have my music create a place of belonging for me so i will say that a punk was only ever a hairstyle and an outfit before it was a style of music and that is mostly the case when it comes to things in pop music what i will also say is that as a music producer all these years I feel like I've somehow successfully removed myself from having to like just listening to music as do I want to belong to this tribe versus do I like this or do I not like this and I've been

able to kind of remove myself from the um you know the potential tribal inclusivity element of music which I think most people listen to music believing like this sounds cool. This makes me feel cool. Maybe I'm in the cool group if I wear the t-shirt that's associated with this music. I don't really have that. So what I'm saying to you is that I will be listening to this music just as music, not even thinking about the tribe it's associated with. And I won't care whether I'm in the cool group or not. I'm just going to love it or not love it or just talk about it. Awesome, because there's way too many Ramones t-shirts out there, right? I used to have a thing about music critics.

I felt like if we all just sat down and just said, look, you were the first kid in your school with a Ramones t-shirt. Let's just, let's give you a button or something, a flashing light in front of your house. And then we can get on with the real business of talking about music. Like this doesn't need to be about you

and how you were the coolest, misunderstood kid in your school. Do you ever want to go up to somebody wearing a Ramones t-shirt and just say, name three songs by the Ramones. Like, like just give them a little. Which winners did you get that shirt from? Right.

It's, I think Walmart sells it. Variety Village. Oh, no, I, I, I don't think it's that cool.

Two quick questions though, came in from listeners who heard Ralph was coming on. One is from Andrew Ward, who's a huge fan of Not That Kind of Rabbi. So good job, Andrew. He says, I always enjoy your conversations with Ralph and would love to hear an update on George Lakoff. Am I saying it right? Lakoff. Lakoff.

George Lakoff is a linguist and political communications guru on the progressive side. And his best book is Don't Think of an Elephant. Right. His basic premise is the conservative frame is the strict father. You know, spare the rod, spoil the child, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Man has dominion over nature and his wife. And then there is the progressive side, which is the nurturing parent. Little Jimmy threw a rock through the window. There must be a reason why little Jimmy feels that way. And we have to find an upstream cause for the fact that he's throwing a rock through a window instead of throwing him in jail because he threw a rock. So by being able to identify that

for people who are watching the parade, it helps them to understand because both of them reside in us. Under fear of scarcity and pressure, we will revert to more authoritarian pieces of ourselves or if our ego is challenged enough. If we are feeling more generous, expansive artists, for the most part are progressives because their work is in the realm of spirit and heart and not in the other realm. You'll get the occasional person,

but it's always a surprise. Oh, Ted Nugent's a crazy right-wing guy? Oh, I didn't know that. But just because you're an artist, it doesn't mean you're of one affiliation or another, but mostly they're of the progressive side. So Lakoff writes really well about that. Andrew wants me to find Lakoff,

so I've got to get my... I just followed him on Twitter while we were talking. Oh, nice. Yeah, he's very cool. He's very cool. There's Frank Luntz on the right-wing side, and there's George Lakoff on the left-wing side. So George Lakoff is really cool, but so is Andrew Ward,

who actually gave me a George Lakoff book to read, and I haven't actually got to yet, and I actually am feeling guilt right now that I should read this book. No, no, read it. It's great. Okay, and the final question before we rock and roll here is that it's from me. And something I overheard on a recent episode of Not That Kind of Rabbi, and I took a mental note to ask you about this when you were live on Toronto Mic'd and you couldn't get away.

Now, are you working on writing your memoirs? I'm writing a book that will be released next spring. I just have to go through my second and third draft. It's called I Thought He Was Dead. And it's really about my journey in life from getting here from Morocco to going into, you know, how I felt in school and drama school and then Yuck Yucks and then the CBC and Out the Other End. But, you know, the second, I'd say the last third of the book is really about spiritual work and wisdom. And it's also about embracing autumn in a person's life. So, and a critique of a society from the perspective of an elder and whether that's valued or not. So that's how we sort of end up.

Amazing. Like that's, when someone I know writes a book, that's exciting. Like, is there going to be a- I know, it's fun. It's fun. I do about a thousand words a day. Okay. Okay. And will there be a chapter on not that kind of rabbi? I know, it's fun. I do about a thousand words a day. Okay, okay.

And will there be a chapter on Not That Kind of Rabbi? Not as a promotional piece, no. Will you reference it? I mean, I'm sure I'll mention it near the end. No, I'm curious if that's a chapter of your life. It's really much more about zooming in and zooming out. So there's a moment in acting school where the acting teacher is abusive, basically.

And I don't really know what I'm doing there anyway. And it's a very elite school. And we're at a party, a house party. And he beckons me over and points at me and then puts his thumb down and goes, you could be somebody, but you're not. You're nothing. And I thought, that's a moment where you can zoom out and see what effect that had. But 10 years later, I'm working on the set of Midday,

the show I'm on, and my friends were shooting Street Legal in the next studio on that Canadian show. And I go over there, and there he is. And they'd kicked me out of acting school a long time before that. And there he is. And he'd kicked me out of acting school, but long time before that. And there he is. And he called me Raphael. This is why I changed my lovely name to Ralph, because nobody could say Raphael. So Raphael, did we make a mistake in letting you go? And it's a moment for me because I guess I'm supposed to say, I said, damn right. I didn't, it didn't even occur to me. I just said, no, it's fine.

Everything worked out the way it should. And that's just one of those moments. So, you know, it's about those kinds of moments in life and what you do with them. And sometimes you're, you're, you come up with a graceful answer and sometimes you're really a disappointment to yourself if nobody else. So I try to be honest in the book. Will I get referenced in that book is what i'm going absolutely not

absolutely not unless of course there's a fee involved a sponsorship fee of course you will be mentioned throughout the book depending on how much you you're willing on that note on that note because the first jam is queued up, I'm about to press play. But on that note, if you go to pumpkinsafterdark.com, you can save Halloween for the kids, okay? This is the safest Halloween celebration because it's a drive-through event in Milton, Ontario. It's going to kick butt and you can save 10% on your tickets if you use the promo code miked. M-I-K-E-D. I've been talking about Pump after dark for months now. It's a great drive-through event with these big statues

and the pumpkins illuminate the night sky. The kids will love it. So that's your promo code. CDN Technologies, Huxley's got a good network there for Huxley Night in Canada. But if you have any computer or network issues or questions, Barb from CDN Technologies is there for you and you

can reach her at 905-542-9759. And last but not least, I would love to introduce you if you're looking to buy and or sell real estate in the next six months. Let me introduce you to my friend Austin Keitner from the Keitner Group. Just send me an email. I'm mike at torontomike.com and I'll introduce you to Austin and you can just have a conversation with Austin. No obligation to do anything, but he's a great resource if you're looking to buy and or sell real estate

in the GTA in the next six months. Ralph, Ben, Mergy, are you ready to kick out the jams? The chickens have lips. Thank you. And if they bust to you, just keep on smiling through and through. And you'll be amazed at the gaze on their faces as they sent and see you. Ralph Ben-Murgy, tell us about this blood, sweat and tears jam. Listen to Bobby Columbia on the drums. It's just nuts nuts he's so good

uh this band to me uh when i was a kid we had a little phillips well a big phillips reel-to-reel tape recorder and my brothers brought home like west montgomery blood sweat and tears too and parsley sage rose mary in time so i listen to these with these big metal gasketed headphones all the time in our room. I have to share my room with my two brothers. So I just listen to this all the time. And that song, if you play the whole song, there are such fantastic breaks in this song, jazz breaks.

And this to me was me getting introduced to jazz without even knowing it. Because the other driving part of Blood, Sweat and Tears for me was that there was a Canadian, a guy who was from, lived in Toronto, who I actually used to deliver the Toronto Telegram to, David Clayton Thomas, was powerful as a vocalist. And he's still recording music and it's wonderful. But Blood, Sweat & Tears to the whole album to me is that seminal piece. You know, people think of Steely Dan

kind of using jazz in their music. Blood, Sweat & Tears had way more of that. He does a version of God Bless the Child that's just sublime. So that's why I chose it. Okay, here's a little bit

of that jazzy bit and then we'll get a bit of Hoxley's input here. But here's a little of that jazzy part here. Sounds good in the headphones, man. Yeah, listen to that bass line. Yeah. baseline yeah and the horn section on blood sweat Sweat & Tears. Fantastic. Just love this band.

Yeah. Okay, I'll put it on the background here. But Hawksley, what do you think of Ralph's first jam here? Oh, incredible. Incredible, incredible. I mean, the house we grew up in was more of a Chicago house, but this 60s horn-based pop music, to me, also makes me singularly nostalgic for a time

when the public had the kind of ears to hear this kind of music. Not the least of which this kind of music was very likely recorded live, which probably almost never happens anymore in the pop music field. This was musicianship captured on tape. It's sort of a transference of a moment's magic to the listener's ears. Again, we don't really hear this very often. It also makes me think of how the world's economy at the time would have been able to support a band of this size. I remember reading in Keith Richards' autobiography

about how much further the dollar would stretch back in the day, even with the Stones, where you might play one gig every six weeks, and then you'd go off on a sort of a drug and booze-fueled odyssey and kind of come back and do another gig and then send off into your rock and roll life. I hear this and I think, man, what it would have cost to make, to have this kind of a band on the road, touring this, promoting this. It harkens back to another time, outside of the arts and culture in and of

itself we're dealing with an economy that could have supported music like this and by saying that too that means that there would have been a critical mass of humans to buy these albums and understand and appreciate and love these albums so when I hear this I hear a lot of stuff of course I hear the power of David Clayton Thomas, somebody I've had the pleasure and honor of working next to a couple of times. I remember recording him in the studio one time. He was doing an updated version of Spinning Wheel and he was doing it for the CBC and he came in and just he got in front of the mic and just no one, it's like this guy was almost 70 or was 70 when he and and the power that came out of him it was like it was 1968 like this dude hasn't aged a day his insides have not aged a day yeah

yeah he's i'm with you on this yeah oh just and you know i was thinking when you mentioned chicago the first two albums of chicago the transit authority albums that were really the, their hallmark. So heavy jazz, man, like thick jazz in, in pop music. And until David Foster got a hold of them and destroyed their sound. Oh, that's when yacht rock was born, right? Oh, it was just awful. You know, just, they went so the wrong way, but I think of tower of power, you know, there were all these bands that really just lighthouse. Oh, lighthouse was fantastic. You know, there were all these bands that really... Even Lighthouse in Canada. Lighthouse. Oh, Lighthouse was fantastic.

You know, but the... What's the one? Powder Blues. Powder Blues band? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they were great. You know, Shock Johnson. That goes... That off-roads for me.

I don't follow you on Powder Blues. It's just like... There was so much music in my house growing up. My dad was such a phenomenal music fan that we had hundreds and hundreds of records in the house and there was always a record on like it took me becoming an adult to realize that that just what that's just not particularly normal growing up in my house always music being played but uh so that so my frame of reference often comes from what the records my dad had and of course he had blood sweat and tears um and chicago uh and lighthouse and and and still because my dad had. And of course he had Blood, Sweat & Tears and Chicago and Lighthouse.

And still, because my dad was a drummer and I'm a drummer, Skip Prokop, who's the drummer for Lighthouse, would often get referenced in our house, even as a kid. My dad almost raised me to be a fan of the guys whose names were on the back of the album jacket

instead of the big name on the front cover. Skip Prokop worked at CFNY for a while in the 80s i believe so really yeah and uh one more thought thought before i kick out the second jam but blood sweat and tears i believe they played woodstock right yes and i believe that i believe from the documentaries i was revisiting on the 50th anniversary there i believe there was a problem with recording it. Like if they had the four track and they had something with the horns were out of tune and it was mixed up, something meant that they weren't in the famous documentary that came out in

1970. They were definitely played there, but I don't think they're remembered because of a very New York band. Like everybody was New York. David Clayton Thomas went down to New York to be part of it, but really the sound is not California. It's much of a New York jazz sound.

We're off to a killer start here. Let's get to Ralph's second jam. guitar solo Words get the best of me, life's on hold Rain got me standing in my My sad Sunday clothes My sad Sunday clothes Hearts can be broken

Only so many ways Nine kids down, yeah In under 30 days In under 30 days Yes, nine summers lost Nine lovely little dreams. Nine summers lost, words get the best of me. Talk to us, Ralph.

Nine summers lost. Harry Manx. Just fantastic. This song for me is about the genocide against our Indigenous people in this country. Nine Summers Lost. Nine lovely little dreams. Nine Summers Lost in 30 days. Suicide rate for young people in indigenous communities is obscene. It's a national shame. And Harry, who brings Eastern music and Western music together, and blues in a way you don't usually hear them, mixed with that kind of talk, to me is so powerful.

that kind of talk to me is so powerful. As a native, a friend of mine who's a rabbi and spent 10 years in native communities, listening to Harry's just good medicine. Hoxie, are you familiar with Harry Manx? Yeah, it's funny. I was just talking about Harry on Friday because for years it felt like I would Harry and I were always two weeks apart on the road a lot of times I'd be down in Australia and be like I'm missing Harry Maggs by two weeks everywhere I go I played with him at a an absolutely astounding festival in the very north of BC called the Atlin Music Festival and you actually fly into Whitehorse and then drive south to Atlin. It's an absolutely magical place. And I played, shared the stage.

Well, I didn't share it at the same time, but we played the same festival on the same evening, Harry and I. And this doesn't feature as much of the Indian music that he studied. This doesn't sort of, and I'm sorry that I didn't, I was focused a little bit more on the vocal thinking, was this John Hyatt? I knew it was Harry at first. It's who I wrote down first.

And then I thought it sounded so much like Keltner on drums. I thought maybe this is an American recording. And maybe it is Keltner. Maybe it is, yeah. What I'll say about Harry is that at that festival, it always turns out sort of whoever was the favorite or a couple of favorites at that festival, there's a local he's a lawyer who has a helicopter and he'll fly you to the ice fields to show you and he'll land on a

on a living, breathing ice, what do you call it? Glacier? Like on a glacier I have no interest to be in a helicopter and I was asked, and Harry was asked and I was like no no, absolutely not. I don't do that kind of thing.

But Harry went and took him up on it. And then I flew to Vancouver with Harry the next morning. And he was going on about how beautiful it was. And I made a sort of, it made an impression on me that Harry, who has traveled a lot of the places I've traveled, has probably done more things in his life without fear. And that was just an assumption I made because he had this extraordinary experience landing with in a helicopter on a glacier and I did not and it really it allowed me to sort of

put him in in a place in my mind where I would say he's some sort of distant talisman in some way for me because he's somebody who has an effortlessness on stage and in that moment I was like man this guy he just went and fearlessly flew in a helicopter and why didn't I do that and then here we are on an airplane together and he's telling me about what a great time it is and he didn't die and here we are so that's my you know that that effortlessness when you see him before I always in in performers when I see them not pushing it out, just being it, I think, okay, there's a level there they've reached there. And he's definitely of that level. You're absolutely right.

And when he was not that kind of rabbi, we talked a bit about that. But we also made sure that, I mean, his spiritual path and philosophy would have said to him, sure, get on the helicopter. He's Advaita vindanta hindu philosophy is what he follows and i guess the western version would be an eckhart tolle book and i'm not saying that like it's a bad thing yeah yeah uh but just this ability to be completely present is you know when you talk to him he he's actually content. He's not hoping to become content. He's content. You know, he lives the life he thinks, he doesn't think is right. He lives the life that is just is, this is my life. And it's not better if I get this worse, if I don't get

that. Yeah. And that really just comes through in the in the vocal ease with which he pulls out his song and in in the way he he gravitates towards the soulfulness of both the indian music and the blues music it's great i love him i'm glad you mentioned the uh not that kind of rabbi episode of harry manx because it is a great listen and a great companion piece to the great jam there. So very good. Third jam, and I'm looking to... I hope it's loud enough. I think my recording here is a little low, but I'm going to boost it best I can. But let's enjoy Ralph's third jam. © BF-WATCH TV 2021 All right, Ralph, talk to me about music for airports.

Brian Eno. See, if they played this in airports, it would be much better to be in an airport. If you want a place filled with anxiety and people running around, but also filled with high emotions, people who haven't seen each other in five years, people leaving loved ones. It would allow for that space and what Eno does, he's got a great one, Roger Eno and him, Mixing Colors, beautiful album, but I listen to his

music because it is not about listening to his music. It's just creating a space in which you can just be. And there's no expectation. There's no message. There's just a tension between emptiness and a surround that I really always enjoy. I mean, I started listening to music for Air Force, I don't know how many years ago. And it was in the middle of, you know, wanting to find meaning in every song. And there it was, and it was just there. And it just made me very peaceful. And

even now when I'm writing, I can spend an hour and a half with Eno playing while I'm writing, and nothing pulls me away from my writing. It's just with me. So I love it for that. I'm a big Eno fan. Mr. Workman, over to you. Hmm. Hmm.

what was the Eno record that he did with David Byrne in this sort of ghost in the bushes? Ghost in the Machine? No, no, no. Yeah, we're sort of half there. Yeah. My Life in the Bush of Ghosts. Yeah, there you go. That's it. So I maybe know that record a little bit better than this one this i haven't um of course this is on the list of the records you should know that i don't know um i will say that brian you know is somebody i think about quite a bit uh for several reasons one is that he can be this sort of um sonic uh painting sort of genius guy. And then he's also been a part of some of the greatest pop music ever made in

the 1980s. And that he has instincts to, to shepherd those two almost seemingly unrelated kinds of music to places of great success. I often wonder, I follow him on Twitter, and he seems like a very academic-minded, sort of brainy character.

And I don't know why I kind of feel comfortable about that. Maybe it's because sometimes some of the... the almost cartoony, um, spirituality we, we, we attach to music like, oh, this guy must have, he must've come from a thing. He must've, he was a daisy in his teeth. He was under a tree. And then sometimes if I think for people who make stuff that the act of making something is just an act of faith, it's, it's just a practice. It's just a daily routine. It's just work. It doesn't sort of come with this funny accoutrement of all of the spiritual specialities that are associated to it. And I feel when I think of Eno, I think of a guy whose ethic and whose practice is central to who he must be. I don't know much about him, but this is the impression I get from the music he's made, the music he's been involved in, and kind of the guy he is on Twitter, who seems to be

just somebody who plugs himself into interesting environments as often as he possibly can. And he contributes by virtue of the faith he has in his practice, which is to make stuff. And in that faith and in that practice, great things are permitted to come out even though there's like there is a spiritual heft to what we've just heard and there's a spiritual heft to the stuff that we can associate with him in his involvement in pop music like a lot of the U2 albums and Coldplay and these other big big big you know huge I just think he must be a strange dichotomy of human archetypes kind of locked in somebody who even though he's in influenced pop culture vastly i i don't know if i know what his

voice sounds like i don't know uh i i don't really see him as a public figure even though he's been involved in so much music that we could all point to as yeah this was a pivotal thing you know like for me uh the play on words is you know and ego he he seems to lack ego he has he has the ability to put something out without trying to embellish it just in case you didn't like it so when you listen to his ambient music you can find something in it that if he had been more ego driven, he would have buried it and given it a backbeat or put a groove in there to keep you from not wanting to listen to it anymore. And he doesn't, he just puts it honestly out there. Well, it's funny you bring up ego. And we talked about age and the sort of

the sexual archetypal narrative that's played in pop music. I also, as a guy who lost his hair, I look at Eno as a guy who's been proudly bald since almost the earliest days of Roxy Music. Both of you are follically gifted. And I've often thought that he sort of proudly went bald in front of all of us and didn't sort of go through any like you know I'm not bald years and I often think of just that pure like bald man's um fight spirit like he somehow was able to go bald not care and still be a genius yeah beautiful yeah he didn't play by any of the rules there yeah I love that perspective I would never have considered that that's that's why you're here hoxley you're here to represent because you take for granted your your unicorn hair that no you're right and hoxley's here to represent the her stutely challenge pursuitly challenge thank you

you're here to correct my pronunciation in a household maybe i think i told you guys this where we had a hair salon in the house so i was even though I don't have all the kind of hair that I wish I did, I was also raised with a very keen eye to observe people's hair. And you also collected bags of hair, which you kept just in case. Absolutely. So it will be gluing to your head. Oh, gosh. Serial killers do that.

Okay. Or at least to your hat. So when you put the hat on, it would appear you have long hair. I think Kim Mitchell used to do that with the OPP hat. I'm not sure though. Okay, he's an FOTM. So fourth jam coming up.

I want to dedicate this to somebody, to my good friend, Stu Stone. Here's Ralph Ben-Murgy's fourth jam. Thank you. Baby's into running around Hanging with the crowd Putting your business in the street Talking out loud Saying you bought her this and that And how much you done spent

I swear she must believe It's all hell to say Hey boy Better bring the chick around To the sad sad truth The dirty low down You want me to sing? Come on, this is fantastic. No argument here. There is no better groove than Bob Skag doing that tune, man.

I mean, he can literally die knowing he did that tune. It's fantastic. And I'm just glad to hear Ralph Ben-Murgy kicking out some bonafide yacht rock, because this is yacht rock, my friend. It's great stuff. Tell us why you chose Lowdown by Boss Skag. You could do this one for the rhythm section alone,

and you would die happy. I mean, that flank, ba-oom-do, ba-oom-do. And just, oh, I would die to be the drummer in that tune. You would know that you would make people very happy. That song is the perfect California pop tune to me. I was a big soft rock California guy. You know, Jackson Brown and Eagles and

Graham Parsons and Linda Ronstadt. Linda Ronstadt's Prisoner in Disguise. J.D. Souther wrote that with her. You listen to that. That is California rock. Spoiler alert. Yeah, but this one is just to you listen to that. That is California. Spoiler alert. Yeah.

But this one is just to me, I've never tired of the song. And if you can go 30, 40 years with a tune and never be tired when you hear it, come on, then that's, that's a success for a piece of music, right? Hawksley,

what do you say about, about the, about low down? I could wax on about this for weeks straight um so my dad as i said played records every day this record got more spins than any record that he owned um so i and in fact as my brother and i got cheekier and with our in our adolescence, we would joke that like, I'm never going to grow up like you and then spin a record this often. Like we're going to continue to indulge ourselves in new music and stay current with the times.

Like my dad dedicated so much of our time listening to records to this record. Now you bring up the drummer. The drummer famously is Jeff Procaro of Toto. In fact it's mostly Toto who's backing up Boss Gags here and Jeff died tragically I think in the early 90s having some medication react with some lawn fertilizer or something. Jeff was one of the greatest drummers of all time and in some ways you can look at his body of work with Toto which is in and of itself a clinic on rock drumming but I think if you're a real Jeff Porcaro guy

the records he made with Boss Gags are some of the greatest session drumming records if you want to hear somebody's instincts for playing songs not playing drums but playing songs first and hear somebody's instincts for playing songs not playing drums but playing songs first and being a great drummer for playing a song but also peppering in with that technically difficult stuff to do on drums yes it's musical usually musicality and difficult drumming don't tend to go hand in hand usually it's one or the other um you know you could listen to rush if you're interested in listening to difficult drumming. Does it play out as musical drumming? Sometimes it does. I think with Jeff

Recaro, what you get is a guy who was a technical master, but also somebody whose instinct for playing songs. And as a drummer myself and a songwriter myself, those are the drummers that I will, I'm endlessly fascinated by. These guys who have oodles of ability, who can outplay the next guy by a mile, but whose instincts for a three-and-a-half-minute pop music narrative, they are a contributing force into why we remember and love that stuff.

You know, we're listening to this, and Ralph and I are air-bass playing and air-drumming together. I mean, Ralph's not wrong. The rhythm section of this band is one of the air bass playing and air drumming together I mean Ralph's not wrong the rhythm section of this band is one of the greatest rhythm sections of all time this is the rhythm section who played mostly on the Michael Jackson Thriller record as well these were cats who were defining what pop music on the radio was sounding like they brought masterful technical abilities plus ability to to be innovative but within the context of a great pop song not overtaking it with like

here I am a Berkeley college grad I'm about to dazzle you this is I don't know how and again this takes me back to a time when the general public's appetite and willingness to have a table set to understand this kind of music this also also plays on the fringes of jazz. This is to me the sound of one of the great eras in American pop music where you had great songwriters teaming up with great producers in great studios with the greatest musicians available. This is when records cost millions and millions and millions of dollars and people said oh I hate it and they threw the tape out the window and they started again that kind of stuff doesn't happen anymore um what this is is an error this is this is put this on in a spaceship and put it in a satellite

and in 400 years unearth it listen to it and be just as fucking dazzled by it then as we are now perfect hoxley i have a recommend better i have a recommendation for you, Hawksley. There's an episode of, I'm going to promote my own show here, but there's an episode of Toronto Mic'd. It's a Pandemic Friday episode and we kick out Yacht Rock, okay? And hearing you talk about the Toto,

the rhythm section, and Toto's all over Yacht Rock, you know, with Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins and all these cats uh but uh this episode i think you would absolutely love it the yacht rock episode of toronto mic so half of yacht rock sucks completely like really sucks and some some of it is like the mike mcdonald doobie brothers oh yeah version of the Doobie Brothers actually had a fantastic album in there. But there's other stuff that just lies down and goes to sleep.

Like Ambrosia? What a Fool Believes is an unbelievable song. Okay, that's your definitive yacht rock jam. And it's got the Doobie bounce in it. And you hear that kind of in the early 80s everywhere. But that's your homework. It comes from somewhere, back in Longgoo.

His voice by itself doesn't make sense. But when you put it in that band, it was perfect. Oh, well said, well said. Okay, man, we got to kick out the fifth jam here. You teased this in that description. So here it is. I did.

You think the love you never had might save you But true love takes a little time You can touch it with your fingers And try to believe your eyes Is it love or lie So you're keeping your distance A little bit of room around you But if he doesn't return your call on time Oh my, my You just act like a fool on a holiday

There's nothing that you wouldn't try You must be a prisoner in disguise Well, there's my life Linda Ronstand, Prisoner. My life But there's no one else in it No one else in it Sing along, Ralph. There's a part here where Southern... I love their harmony. Here we go.

But it's no show So your mind is where you go If you think you could win Without losing And letting it show So it goes from here. This city has no place to hide it. Everybody knows your number.

I mean, you act like a fool on a holiday. There's nothing that you wouldn't try. This city has no place to hide it. Everybody knows your number. And knows your number And you know that You could never be alone If you tried You'd just run like a man

With no reason to run And no place to ever run You must be a prisoner. Look just like a prisoner. But you must be a prisoner in disguise. I tell you, that climax in that song, every time I hear it, I get shivers. I crank it up. I sing along. J.D. Souther, who almost nobody knows about outside of music circles, who was one of the driving forces of California rock,

and Linda Ronstadt, who was the diva of that genre. Her voice, her ability to transform music was just phenomenal. And this is in a time where a female lead singer of a group, you don't want to envy that. It was not valued by so many people. You know, Ronstadt had a very lonely time sometimes. And in later life, she's had debilitating illnesses. I had the pleasure of interviewing her once.

And the sadness was that I could feel that there was a feeling of absence in her life by then, of what she didn't have anymore. And yet when I listened to her music, that song Prisoner in Disguise, you know, and no place to ever rise. Boom. You know, but just the power of it, what I would have given to been in that recording studio for that moment with them singing into the same mic would have been anything. Because you can tell that it's live because he's behind about four times in picking up the harmony.

You know, there was no pitch control. There was no nothing. It was just these two people singing a song he wrote and that she made into something special. So I just, you know, I could pick all kinds of music to play and I could, you know, show how hip I am pick all kinds of music to play and I could show how hip I am and cool, but that song has always resonated for me. So that's my song. Well, listening to Linda and JD there reminded me of listening to Hawksley and

Sarah Sleen. I mean, this is some beauty here. Hawksley, what did you think of that jam from Ralph Benmer? I mean, I had to kind of just like let myself fall into it a bit. I don't, I don't have for me in my mind, I mean, I had to kind of just let myself fall into it a bit. I don't have... For me, in my mind, I guess I think, is Linda Ronstadt like this Joan Baez of the 70s or something? I don't have a Linda Ronstadt... I don't have a point of reference other than the song that... I don't know much, but I know I love you.

And I guess she sang with Paul Simon. Erin Neville. She sang with Paul Simon, but I don't know this record, and I don't know J, but I know I love you. And I guess she sang with Paul Simon. Erin Neville. She sang with Paul Simon, but I don't know this record and I don't know J.D. Souther. So all of this is off my radar. I can't help but, again, think nostalgically about a time when we had time to absorb a song like this. And I think Ralph's right.

I think even the fact that these people recorded this song together probably with one mic that it wasn't that the vocals weren't pitch corrected or or retimed so that they could be airtight like i think it's important sometimes that this we have a record of human imperfection like this because I think we're going to soon realize that we don't hear it on the radio at all anymore. We certainly don't hear anything human come out of anybody on the radio. It's all been fixed. Well, that died with Boston and Kansas

and these bands that just were completely studio. Even you could argue Steely Dan, because a friend of mine used to do a joke about singing Steely Dan songs around the campfire. It ain't going to happen. So people like this doing this kind of music, will the circle be unbroken by Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, parts one and two.

In the album part two, one of the artists talks about, you know, over the years, we've gotten really good at being in studios and we've lost the living room in the music. And today we got some of that back. And the album really is about off the floor. At one point, John Denver's doing And So It Goes. And somebody asks, is this a practice? You're hearing the click track and they're getting ready and somebody asks is this practice you're hearing the click track and they're getting ready to start because this is

practice and Denver goes into the mic and goes they're all practice and then and then they play right in other words don't keep thinking there's something we're going to do that's going to be great in a minute this is it let's do it right and I think with this song that's always to be great in a minute. This is it. Let's do it. Right. And I think with this song, that's always been one of the pieces for me is Souther, who's not a well-known person outside of singer songwriter people in LA at the time, but writes beautiful songs for people, right? Including Jackson Browne and Linda Ronstadt and the Eagles. These people all knew exactly who J.D. was and his worth.

So for him to be in this song with this powerful singer, to me, was always just sublime. And for people my age who are fellow Simpsons fanatics, we were introduced to Linda Ronstadt because she had a great guest appearance on The Simpsons in the Mr. Plow episode. I don't know if any Simpsons fans on this Zoom call right now, but she was memorable for that great episode. All right, let's kick out another Ralph Jam. Thank you. Ralph, this is Dinner Party by the Mighty Tree.

What do you think, Hoxley? I think it's incredible. That feel is mean. Let's play a little more. so this is the new jazz funky as all hell. Robert Glasper. A whole new generation of jazz is being born. And I mean, besides the groove being fantastic and being a drummer and me being a really bad drummer, we're suckers for groove.

But I love it. That is beautiful and mean. And the harmonies, it's almost like the way the horns have been recorded. It's been recorded to sound like a sample. Like, is it live? Is it like it's drumming? It's everything. Some of it's live, some of it's collage, some of it's just, you know.

Kamasi Washington is another great jazz performer these days. Yeah, I was actually wondering, was that Kamasi on sax in that one moment? Yeah, yeah. But Glasper is bringing all these people together these days. It's just like, okay, let's just do this, shall we? Because jazz is, you know, I've spent enough years in the jazz world that you can get lost in 1959 yeah let's go you know what that kind of is it you know one year five unbelievable albums each

one seminal in its way uh how do you get better than that it's like male jazz vocalists who can't stop trying to sound like frank sinatra yeah right no I it's like the genre defined itself so definitively like it like the the sketchbook kind of came with the rules were so clear that it was like well how do we deviate from this and it there was also I mean I've been going back to Chick Corea's electric band records a lot lately and I like I mean I think if you were really cool you'd say this is the cheesiest thing I ever heard but for me it's such a great image of of of a brilliant mind looking into the future and making space music you know like intellectual space music when I hear this I mean the groove is so deep the harmonies are nice. The feel is so gentle. There's a lot of space.

The Kamasi thing, like, it's funny. I saw him at Charles de Gaulle Airport last year, and I was so starstruck. And I was like, oh, my God, like, do I get a picture with this guy? What do I do? And then we just, zoosh, passed by, and that was it. But I thought a lot about, like, what it took to kind of remount this jazz comeback that you're sort of talking about, Ralph. And, you know, it's an interesting set of characters who are kind of putting this thing back together.

And I think an interesting circumstance where musicianship is all of a sudden cool again, like where young jazz players are picking up those old Herbie and Chick records and going, oh, like there's something really going on here. And then there's these, yeah, like, man, that is deep. What is that? I want to make sure that I get that. Mighty Tree Dinner Party.

Mighty Tree Dinner Party. Okay. Let's play some more jazz. Thank you. Rwy'n gwneud ychydig o'r gwaith. talk to me ralph go go penguin Really good jazz coming out of New York and Brooklyn and bands like Go Go Penguin, who there's a bit of Philip Glass in there, you know, that circular piano thing. But there's also just the temptation is to bail on a hard groove like that. You just go, I better start mixing this up

or else people are going to go, stop it already. But with Go-Go, what I like about them is they don't. They just go, just hold on. Because jazz is supposed to, part of jazz is tying yourself to the mast. Just weather the storm, man. Pick a lane, pick an instrument if you have to, and hold on to it for the whole song, because it's about everything at the same moment. And it's

Go-Go's sound to me, and they have, you know, other stuff that's, you know, much more rhythmically able to keep you amused. But I like that one because it's kind of a slap in the face. Like, I'm sure you want me to stop going in circles. No, I'm going to keep going. So I like it for that. What year are we talking? Like, when was this released? Do you know?

I don't know. I think it was about two years ago, maybe. Reminiscent, if I will, reminiscent of like the Alan parsons project like serious yeah well i still listen to craft work i still listen to alice alan parsons uh kyan is scotty i just like stuff i i did an interview once with philip glass and you know i said well why why do you just keep doing that and keep going in these circles? And he says, I'm not going in a circle. I'm just moving through sound.

And I was like, okay. Haven't thought of it that way. I enjoy watching Hawksley listen to your jams. Like it's kind of, kind of, we should sort of sell tickets for that. What do you think of it? Tell us. Well, it's funny that you brought up Koyaanisqatsi because that was my sort of intro into Philip Glass and I mean

you get hit over the head with Koyaanisqatsi and you an indelible impression about what Philip Glass does is left in you for the rest of your life at least it was for me so that was the first thing I heard was like you say that commitment to that ostinato and that groove and I like what you say about weathering the storm. I saw a couple of my heroes at the Montreal Jazz Fest a few years ago John Madesky playing with Mark Giuliana and it was dreadful and they were committed to this improvised concert and it they just didn't click not once not in my gut it didn't feel like some of the friends I went with there's that wasn't that incredible i was like ah what i liked is i liked seeing my heroes

fail because it reminds me that we've all been in those shitty jams like i've been in way shittier ones absolutely and where you go name names we gotta keep we gotta keep on this because the magic might come to meet us yet we can't just abandon and when you are in a shitty jam you have to stick with it because that's just the musician when you are in a shitty jam you have to stick with it because that's just the musician's rule you know like abandoning it early means you're the one who gave up on the potential for something wonderful to happen yeah yeah but i also too i was i heard an interview with um the pianist eric lewis uh a few weeks ago who was talking about the jazz community really asking about swing like like do is like are we married to swing is swing the inevitable sort of characteristic of jazz and

do we all like how devout to swing do we need to be and I think what we're hearing from the new jazz that Ralph's brought that i think the question feels like it's being answered fairly succinctly that like maybe new jazz doesn't need to bow to that that rhythmic angle and that's just a thought off the top of my head because that interview it hit me so hard like in some ways swing puts your body in a mood, you know, swing, it's evocative of a very particular way of being. And if that's not something that you personally jive with, the whole rest of the world is listening to music that operates in straight time, whether you're listening to classical music or rock and roll, like it's like pretty much everything else, we're back on top of

the beat, you know. So to hear what modern jazz sounds like with these, with these non-swing feels is pretty refreshing to me. I feel like the vocabulary within swing is limited as well. Like it's like, ah, geez, it's too bad that everything is, where it can be, and that can be jazz too. Like I feel like it's, it it's being it's maybe there's more it's honoring the the full the full spectral depth of where groove can take you and i mean jazz is a groove oriented music style i don't think being limited to a swing feel is necessarily

what keeps you feeling um uh authentic you know yeah and look i mean throughout jazz history there's there's been people who have a love supreme is not a swing to you know swing album it's not dizzy gillespie you know uh ross and rule and kirk uh you know, there's Pharaoh Sounders. I mean, I saw him in England, in London, at Ronnie Scott's. And, you know, you just had to give up. You had to stop doing it. You're playing the next tune? Yeah, it was a little quick on the draw there. It's all right.

This one is directly relatable to the Jewish high holiday of Yom Kippur that just passed. ¶¶ Shalom. Thank you. Aveinu Malkenu Aveinu Malkenu Aveinu Malkenu. Avenu Malkenu. Avenu Malkenu. Emotion. It's a lament. Here they go into a little bit of... So for me, this is the reimagining of Jewish music, right?

From the Eastern European kind of German polka music version of things in Yiddish. Certainly not from my tradition as a North African from an Arab country Jew, where we have, we sound like any Arabic music would sound, but there's a lot of minor key stuff in both. And this song is one that you do let's say seven or eight times over a 25 hour period and it's powerful tune when you're in the middle of your fast but when these guys came together the kabbalah dream orchestra they have a whole album that's so, some of the tunes are just fantastic, crazy. But it's taking our tradition and turning it on its head and moving it into another groove. So I just really love when that kind of stuff happens and renews things like that.

Reminds me a little bit of Enigma when they when they would do like return to innocence and they'd bring in the monks you know what i mean it's like you take the old yeah i'm big on sacred music from around the world and i remember when i was younger the first inkling that there was such a thing as music from around the world was courtesy of peter gabriel who started womatAD and CBC at the time we were covering WOMAD festival at Harborfront every year and I got to host that so I got to really see the cross-pollination going on and the different influences of different cultures on each other's music and sacredness and stuff so listening to Kabbalah Dream Orchestra they didn't put out a lot of music but this album really ended up being something that I just found, you know, by coincidence

and thought, oh, all right, we can do this too. What do you think, Huxley? Yeah, it's stunning. I don't know this at all. It's stunning. I think there's always a huge risk when you make music like this for it to be a disaster. And I think that this is incredible.

Like it's just got the right sort of artistic intensity, I think, you know, plus. I mean, I have a fondness for devotional music as well and I feel like it comes packed with its own, you know, it comes with its own special brand of spiritual ammunition and infused with that feel, it feels a bit ragged. It feels Eastern European to me. It definitely has a European energy. Yeah, I could, I could, I could take this in for sure. This is great. It's a nice balance, right? Between the, the,

the old and the new and this nice, nice modern hybrid, if you will. Well, you hear these little trills, you know, on a keyboard coming in at near the, near the beginning. And it starts to give you the, Hey, you hear these little trills on a keyboard coming in near the beginning, and it starts to give you the, hey, something's up. This isn't just going to be saying, you know, Malkenu 14 times, something's going to happen. And the first thing he does, that's a negun, that's a wordless melody that you use to focus people together in a sacred space in Judaism. And it comes from the Hasidic tradition, which is the mystical tradition of Judaism, that

was in response to rational Judaism, where everything had to make sense, and there's a law for this and a law for that, and we have to do this and we have to do that. These guys were just like, no, actually our masters can teleport through time. That's how mystical it became for them so this stuff comes from that energy you know the negun into this into the sacred music into the new york hip hop ah those come what made places where one relaxes on the axis of the wheel of life Where one relaxes on the axis of the wheel of life To get the feel of life

From jazz and cocktails The girls I knew had sat and solemn gray places With distant hair traces That used to be there you could see where they'd been washed away by too many through the day twelve o'clock tales then you came along with your siren song to tempt me to madness I thought for a while That your poignant smile Was tinged with the sadness Of a great love for me

Ah, yes, I was wrong Again, I was wrong Life is lonely Again, and only last year Everything seemed so sure Again, a chaff full of hearts could only be a bore. A week in Paris, please, the bite of it. All I care is to smile in spite Little Johnny Hartman And the saxophone, John Coltrane.

Coltrane puts together an album with who I believe is one of the great jazz vocalists of all time, Johnny Hartman, who just, you listen to his ability to move through octaves without any effort. He just hits his basement and then goes climbing up to his attic as if it's nothing. Not out of breath, no nothing.

And Coltrane gives him all the space to be Johnny Hartman. I mean, remember, at this point, Coltrane's at the height of his powers. He could be, it's my lead break! But instead, he's just, you know, around Hartman's vocal. And Billy Strayhorn, who wrote Lush Life,

Strayhorn, who was gay in a world that wasn't interested in gay people, who worked with Duke Ellington, who was one of the great writers of his time. And Lush Life is just one of those beautifully written songs. So to me, the kind of wordsmithing and care that went into lyrics in those days, some of the best lyrics ever written were written for jazz vocalists in those days. Some of the best lyrics ever written were written for jazz vocalists in those days. Just beautiful stuff.

And this Lush Life to me is one of the best there. What do you think, Oxley? I'm blown away. I don't know this recording or this piece of music. You know, at first I was like, is this? I'm embarrassed to say that I thought it was Nat King Cole then I jumped Robert Goulet and it was like uh um stunning yeah the vocal is crazy it makes me think about what what it actually meant to be a great vocalist in this era it was

more than just being able to sing your tuning had to be impeccable as Ralph was was talking about but also your mic technique i think a lot about singers that were able to translate in this era understood how to fit into the mix because we weren't talking about multi-track recordings we were talking about humans in a room and how could you be the singer take that how could you take that place of prominence within the mix it's about understanding breath control and giving the microphone exactly what the microphone needs to put you front and center in that picture you know at one point there when uh i used to i grew up watching a lot of variety shows and singers singing into my you know mike's that still had chords on them yeah you know an sm58

or something and but just all of it was about moving in and out, moving in and out, taking the mic. Kurt Elling, a modern jazz vocalist, you watch him perform, and he has fantastic mic technique. He'll start to hit a note, and as he grows in intensity, he moves it away and moves it away and then brings it back to the end of the note. And an engineer couldn't have done it better. he moves it away and moves it away and then brings it back to the end of the note and it's

an engineer couldn't have done it better so i used to love watching them sort of string along their chord behind them while they were singing and then just move back and forth so that mic technique thing is absolutely true amazing and uh as the traveling wilburys once said we've reached the end of the line here. Final jam coming up. But before I start kicking this out, I just want to say what a pleasure it's been to hear Ralph kick out his jams and why. And then to hear you, Hawksley, you've added that perfect spice to it all.

And I really, really, I think this is the right mix right here. I think we found the balance. This was really enjoyable for me. Me too. Me too. Me three. Let too. Me three. Let's do one more. Should I intro the song? Yeah, you know what?

I was thinking, hearing you talk about these jazz songs and such, you would sound really good on a jazz station. If there was such a thing, you should have a show on a jazz radio station. I'm occasionally asked to go into one,

but not as often as I'd like. Well, they should shape up and get you in there every day. Well, this one, Henry Mancini wrote this song as the title track for a movie. It's a fantastic movie, Breakfast at Tiffany's,

except they should really remove Mickey Rooney's part from the film and digitize somebody else in because he does the most racist Japanese landlord you'll ever see. I know at the time it was an acceptable thing but it just ruins that part of the movie but George Pappard and...

Audrey Hepburn? Audrey Hepburn are magic in that movie. The movie is Moon River and the song is played in different ways throughout the movie. Sometimes it's played acoustically by one of the lead characters and sometimes it's just

played as soundtrack. I guess Andy Williams made it famous for the average person. But the version that is my favorite is from a Canadian. It's from Lori Cullen, who has got a crystal clear voice, beautiful voice, and she does complete justice to this tune. Kurt Swinghammer is the sound you hear right now.

Her partner in life and music. Moon river wider than a mile I'm crossing you in style someday I'm crossing you in style someday You dream maker You heartbreaker Wherever you're going I'll be going your way.

Two drifters off to see the world. And there's such a lot of world to see. Such a lot of world to see We're after the same Rainbows and waiting round the bend My huckleberry friend Moon river And me That's beautiful, buddy.

That's beautiful. Yeah, she nailed that one. Lori Cullen is her name, if you didn't catch it. Lori Cullen. Lori Cullen. And Kurt, the swing hammer, just... and Kurt Swinghammer just just dreamlike behind her on this one do you know who else is on this recording?

I don't know who else is on the recording but gotta find out what say you Hawksley Workman? I was thinking of the Andy Williams version of this song, which I feel like has been parodied. Has it been parodied famously? I feel like I know a parody of this song, the better that I know the song. It might be William Shatner who may have sung it.

Oh, maybe. That would ruin it for everyone. But also knowing that Kurt Swinghammer played on this and Laurie Cullen, it also I must admit like it harkens back to a time in Toronto of of musicians going to sessions and gigs on Queen Street in a time when that was still a thriving thing and these guys were kind of my heroes when I'd moved from Muskoka into Toronto it was to sort of try to get into this kind of scene a bit and when I hear Kurt Swinghammer these names that take me

back to people who I looked up to on the Queen Street scene in the mid-90s it's just cool because there was a strong session scene it was probably the last glimpses of a really strong session scene in Toronto which is almost what I dedicated my adolescence to like join that team you know and yeah maybe there's just a also a bit of nostalgia for I bet I was about to say better time in Toronto and I maybe I'll commit to that a better time in Toronto music with these sessions going on Kurt Swinghammer showing up with his Steinberger guitar to play sort of mystical slide bits behind uh Moon River I I think yeah it makes me it gives me all the all the feels I believe is colloquially what the kids are saying these days would you would

you still be in Toronto if you felt that scene were you know still around in 2020 well in non-covid times i guess 2020 um i mean there's you know there's so many factors contributing to the fact yeah as to why there's less musicians in toronto now um and like queen the queen west you're talking about i mean i was the one before that where the rivoli wasn't even the Rivoli yet it was called the Soho right and Peter Pan restaurant had just opened and you know these these things were from the 80s and the 70s and then it was really a scene because it was affordable an artist could live a life right at Queen and Spadina with no problem yeah and now it's Yorkdale without a roof. It's just a bunch of chain stores. And if you're not a chain, there's no way you can afford the lease rates. And great bookstores got kicked out and great artists had to keep moving west. And then they went to Parkdale and then

they came to Hamilton. And then they went to Peterborough because artists are the ones that make the community worth living in and then are asked politely or impolitely to leave please we have people with real money here oh right you know so true it's so true ralph you're absolutely right uh right so asking an artist would you still be there for the session scene you can't have the session scene because nobody can afford to be in that session and music constantly has to stop the resist the the the pull of corporatization of of just wringing out what makes it music and turning it into what makes it palatable and everything goes through that and for for the artist it's like well i need to go somewhere where i don't have to be sitting

there thinking i can't afford two twenty seven hundred dollars a month in rent you know and i got to start doing are there any corporate gigs i can get are there any jingles i can do just so that i don't starve here so all the energy gets drained out of the scene of the 90s that hoxley's talking about in the 80s where cross-pollination was the order of the day. Oh, you do that, I do this. You want to just get together, see if there's something there. So that time and space isn't really allowed. I started back there where you could be in a Kensington market apartment

for peanuts and just have one trunk that you put in the cab when you had to move six months later right yeah now i'm all depressed thank you for closing on well you asked i know i know i want the real talk but it's like i don't even know you keep saying you are real talk and then we either we either compensate artists so they can afford to live here, and it doesn't seem like it's going in that direction from what I hear, or, yeah, we keep the city for regular people and not people who combine household incomes of $400,000 a year or whatever.

You privatize profit. You socialize risk. You move people out of communities because you want to maximize your profit, not because you care about homes. You care about housing units that you can flip. It's a totally different world. You asked. I'm glad I asked.

That's why he's in Peterborough and I'm in Hamilton. That's why I'm going to be living under a bridge in a couple of weeks. It'll be a nice bridge, though. Again, thanks so much, guys. I had a lot of weeks but it'll be a nice bridge though again thanks so much guys i had a lot of fun this was really pleasure me too yeah thanks for having me and that that brings us to the end of our 727th show you could follow me on twitter i'm at toronto mike

ralph ben murgy are you at Ralph Ben-Murgy on Twitter? At Ralph Ben-Murgy, Kavanaugh.ca, K-A-V-A-N-A-H.ca for spiritual counseling and for not that kind of rabbi, you got the Facebook page. And Hawksley Workman on Twitter, you're at Hawksley Workman? Yes. And where should people go if they want to go to the next Hawksley night in Canada? When's that going to be, too?

I think it's going to be October the 23rd. Hawksleyworkman.com. It's a website. I'm still a big fan of websites. Get over it. Get over it. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta.

Sticker U is at Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Pumpkins After Dark, they're at Pumpkins Dark. See you all next week. Well, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and green.

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