Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ralph Benmergui: Toronto Mike'd #934

Episode Date: October 19, 2021

Mike chats with Ralph Benmergui about his health challenges, his spiritual awakening, and his new book I Thought He Was Dead.

Toronto Mic is brought to you by the Yes, We Are Open podcast, a Moneris podcast production, telling the stories of Canadian small businesses and their perseverance in the face of overwhelming adversity. Subscribe to this podcast at yesweareopenpodcast.com. Welcome to episode 934 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA.

ChefDrop. Local home delivery in the GTA. ChefDrop. Access top chef and restaurant prepared meal kits shipped across southern Ontario. Buy one, get one 50% off with the promo code F-O-T-M-B-O-G-O. McKay's CEO Forums, the highest impact and least time intensive peer group for over 1,200 CEOs, executives, and business owners around the world. StickerU.com, create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville.

Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group, who's ripping up the GTA real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com. And my guest this week is my rabbi, but not that kind of rabbi, Ralph Ben-Murgy. Ralph, are you dying? We're all dying, Michael. We're all dying. I knew you'd say that, but is there anything imminent? Is there anything imminent about your...

My demise? Right. that but is there anything imminent is there anything imminent about your uh your like demise right well there's uh this this there's a story a story is told where the student says the rabbi says look um you can repent if you sincerely repent on the day of your death, then it'll all work out fine. You're clear. And the student says, well, Rabbi, how am I supposed to know what day that is? And the rabbi says, exactly.

My mind is blowing here. Ralph, the reason... Because you don't know. It could be, you know, getting on your bike to do your 7 millionth kilometer and God forbid something bad happens. No, I think about that a lot. You don't know. I think about that often, to be quite honest.

Because when I'm... Sometimes I'll be on, let's say, Dundas, for example, and I'm like i don't know i'm a half a foot away from this uh 18 wheeler and i sometimes think like oh like a pebble hits the wheel it somehow juts me to the left like a foot and i'm like you know mincemeat i'm done and that's it yeah yeah so are are you dying isn't really the point is, are you going to die today? Are you going to like, who knows? Like, is there some moral of the story here where like live every day as if it's your last day? And then in a moment, I'll explain why I'm asking if you're dying. But like, we should just essentially treat every day as if this is your last day on this planet yeah like when you say goodbye to your partner or somebody to a friend um you know take a little care there you know there was a

great guy who lived here in hamilton who you know he was just rocking he was doing great and then he had a really bad heart attack and he didn't make it like by the end of the day he was finished but you know how did he say goodbye to his wife and kid that morning how do we say goodbye to our friends and family uh don't take anything for granted that's all just this isn't like i say all the time this is no rehearsal like just do it well yeah like like gordown the time this is no rehearsal like just do it well yeah like like gordown he says this is no dress rehearsal this is our life now ralph though like that's for them right like so you don't want that's for the the survivors right like so let's say when i say goodbye to my kids when i drop them off at school in the morning that's like if this

is the last time they see me you're hoping that, because I'm gone, right? So I've checked out. And they, it's them to have that kind of closure and that kind of, right? Like that's the, you know, it's for the survivors. Am I making sense? It's for everything, it's for the moment. It's for just making sure you don't take anything for granted.

Gratitude, if you have some gratitude. Gratitude. Right. Now, Ralph, the reason I opened with that very personal question is because I read I Thought He Was Dead, a spiritual memoir. And I love it. Like, I like to think I know my Ralph. Like, I speak Ralph.

I feel like we communicate often. You've been on the show many times. But I learned a great deal about you. And it felt a bit like something you might write if you were ready to like vacate. No, no, no. I just think, you know, when you write a memoir, you're here in your life and you want to, you know, have some reflection and some, you know, whatever I want to

say to people, not because, oh, somebody told me I'm dying next week. Because if you don't do, if not now, when? Right? Right. Right. And this book is available now. Like, let's do this little salesy part right off the top and then we'll dive in but like if somebody listening says i gotta i gotta read this book how do they get here's the thing what i'm learning is do not go to amazon because they they have it in a warehouse somewhere but it's quietly resting in a box is you know it's not happening uh because i'm getting a lot of people uh saying i just tried to buy this on Amazon and it's not happening. So I'm suggesting to people, they go to my publisher here, whose name is

Wolsak and Wynn. So you go to info at Wolsak, W-O-L-S-A-K and Wynn, all one word, but no E on the Wynn, W-Y-N-N. So Wolsak and win, info at Wolsak and win, order it from them. Apparently we might have more luck with Indigo, but I'm still getting people writing to me going, well, you know, really want to read your book, but these guys keep telling me it's either out of stock or, you know, somebody actually went into an Indigo in Toronto and said, I'd like the book and

said well no we don't seem to have that could you check so they went to the back and checked and there was a box of the books sitting there oh we do have the book so it's like so i'm i'm new to all this i don't write books for a living but i've heard stories like this from other people before and it's a little like really you go to all to all this trouble? But you know, the other thing I've been told by my publisher is, don't worry about it. It's a long tail. You're heading into the Christmas season and don't worry about it. It'll all be all right. Okay, good. Because it's tough enough, right? The book business in this country that you don't need these like, obstacles where it's in the back and they say they don't have it. Like, you don't need that.

like obstacles where it's in the back and they say they don't have it. Like you don't need that. Like it's tough enough. It's tough enough to sell a book. It's tough enough to write one. What I will say is I noticed that there are certain guests that magically become available to you when they have a book to sell. One gentleman who was just on the program, and I know you've talked to him as well.

And he ties in nicely because, well, his name is Peter Mansbridge. You might've heard of him. But when I had him on my show, it was mainly, I know I got him because I know he has a book out and that's how he became available to me. But I started talking about your book

and he was very happy to let me do my Ralph Ben-Murgy book sales pitch. But then he, in his dry wit, asked if we could start talking about his book now. I heard the interview. Because he wrote something for you. Yeah, what did he write for your book? I thought he was dead.

He wrote something where he said that he thought at the time that I entered the CBC that I was, I had talent, that it would, you know, I was going to go places. So, something was one of the most talented people to enter the doors of the CBC, and he knew it, which I tell my, I read this one to my friends, because it makes me laugh every time. It's just like, oh my God. And then he just says, this is about him, you know, wanting to, in quotes, own this town. The fact that he almost did, but then when he didn't, what happened to his life and what it's been ever since. And I really, you know, for Peter to say anything nice about, because I have to tell you, I used to tell people, there's this great story about Peter that I witnessed. So it was the Liberal Leadership Convention in Calgary. I was there at midday and Peter was there to do the entire weekend live and to do the national.

And at the same time, Meech Lake, the Meech Lake Accord was falling apart. It was not going to happen. Clyde Wells in Newfoundland, Elijah Harper in Manitoba, they were not going to give a unanimous consent in their situations. And so he's got people. I'm sitting, I've done my show, I'm sitting in the live trailer, listening and watching. And it is chaos in there, because they're just pulling people from all over the country from the convention floor. Everyone is in on this. It's insane. And so he's got garbage going into his ear all day. People flipping out. Cool as a cucumber, totally there for the interviews, does a fantastic job of navigating not only the

liberal leadership convention that Jean Chrétien won at that point, but also, and Lapierre walking out of the convention, just because Chrétien into him was like a no. So there that's happening. And then Meech Lake dying all in the same day. And he it's over. It's 10 o'clock at well, what is it? It's eight o'clock at night or seven o'clock at night in Calgary. And they just hand him his script, like, here you go for the national. And he goes from boom, boom, boom, boom to good evening. I'm Peter Mansbridge and this is the national. Off it goes, right? And I just thought, oh my God. A lot of people get to become anchor of a national show and are given the title of chief correspondent. In his case, earned every second of it. Fantastic. So I've always been a huge fan of Peter's huge. And no high school diploma required.

You know, it's a different time journalism, you know, when we, when he started and then later when I started it, it didn't matter. It was whether you want it to be a journalist and you did the work. And by the time I left, they wouldn't even see you unless you had a BA in something. And I remember I said, I want to hire this person. They said, well, you can't, they don't have a BA. I said, what do you mean I can't? She's the perfect person for the job. She's been traveling the world for three years. She was great in the interview.

You can't. And I said, well, I can and I will because I'll take it to HR. And they went, okay, fine, fine. Right? Crazy. I'll have you know, I have an honors BA. So I'd be okay. I'd be okay. I have you know, I have no degrees. I have two years of journalism at Ryerson and the third year I left because Stuart McLean said you should go. I have three years of post-secondary at other institutions, but I never managed to finish one of them, which was pretty crazy when I ended up as the executive advisor to the president of a college. That was kind of weird. But this all speaks to how ridiculous this is, that you require this accreditation, this piece of paper. I mean, my kids are at, well, two of my kids are at that age now. One's actually at Laurier, and the other is just wrapping up her last year at high school.

By the way, shout out to Michelle, because just moments ago I literally rushed home to get on this chat with my rabbi, Ralph Ben-Murgy. She just passed her driver's test this morning. Oh, Mazel Tov. You know, I have four kids, and two of them, one of them has just turned 16. The other two are twice his age, literally. But the other two didn't get their license for a long time and I was very happy.

They didn't. It's just crazy what you have to try to become part of, you know, and it's dangerous. I mean, those are the wild beasts of our culture are cars. Yes. Growling,

speeding, killing cars. Right. Right. So I'm always like, well, maybe you don't need to get your license there's no rush you know well this actually ties in nicely to where i was going there which is i

did not so my two teenagers have their driver's license and no pressure from me are you kidding me i i would have been fine if they never got their driver's license there was there was no dad saying hey when are you going to get that that driver's license but similarly and this is a very different to how i was brought up, similarly, I put zero pressure on my teenagers that they have to go to university. This did not exist. Honestly, I don't actually have any passion that my kids go to university. They both have chosen to go to university, which shows you, which is great.

But I don't know what that says how much influence you have i was going there but i didn't say don't go maybe that's the way you do it you just say really i don't care if you go and that guarantees they go right but they they've both chosen to go and it's because i think it's primarily if i'm happy about that at all it's because of these silly rules that some you know hrs of companies have where it's like they won't even like bring you in for an interview unless you have something you know what i mean so here so here's something talk to me um first of all well don't get me too far into the academic thing but credential inflation is a thing you know it is you have to have a phd to teach at a college now which is kind of crazy right but

not because colleges are inferior but because it's about applied learning. It's about, I have 30 years in the field, I have something to share, and I'm going to do it. But because so many people are competing for so few jobs, you have to start looking for the thing that can get you that thing of, well, at least we can take half of these and put them over on the other desk. But there are now major big organizations. I think one of the KPMG kind of companies in England has a thing now where they don't care about your resume. They don't care about your CV and what you've done.

They give you this comprehensive test. And then in that test, they can see what are your leadership abilities? What are your critical thinking faculties? What are your creativity pieces? And then they start choosing from there. So they don't care if you have a degree or not. They care that you're the right fit. So a person with a PhD or a person with no degree have the same shot at the job because it's about what's

the job really about and how able are you to do that job based on this sort of psychographic test they do. Interesting, which makes so much sense to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I learned this with all the people who come in to sell products at the executive level, where they come in to say, you know, we've got this recruitment product, we've got this product. And what the consultant does, the ones who make a lot of money, is they figure out what the client really wants to hear. And they find a way to put empirical evidence, graphs, data, whatever, to get those people to the place they wanted to get to in the first place. If you say to them, you know, I think we've got to blow this up real good, they're just, no, no, no, we don't blow up things around here, no. So those consultants don't usually work unless they have the total trust

of the person they're trying to sell to. Oh, by the way, now that I've learned, you did listen to Peter Mansbridge on Toronto Mike. I'm curious how I did because, you know, when you have your first, you know, your first chat with somebody like Peter Mansbridge, you're kind of worried that you'll, can I swear on my own show? And maybe you'd fuck it up. Yes, you can.

I was worried I'd fuck it up. And I want to hear what did Ralph Ben-Murray think of the hour I spent with Mansbridge? I think it was great. I think you're relaxed. I think, you know, you've done, what, 936 shows by now? Almost, almost. Yeah, so, I mean, come on. And Peter, if you're having any trouble, Peter is the kind of person who will dig you out of the hole.

He's not going to put you further into it. He's a great storyteller. But you know what? He's like the captain of the football team guy, right? He walks through the halls and you just think, that man is the captain, right? He just has that thing. But thankfully, he's very calm in the way he delivers. And he's has that thing. But thankfully...

He's very calm in the way he delivers. And he's got that wit. I found he's got that dry wit. Almost maybe from his British heritage that he's got that element to his personality, which I quite enjoy. He's sneaky funny. Monty Python on sedatives.

I call it sneaky funny, but thankfully to level the playing field, because you mentioned captain of the football team, I think it sneaky funny, but thankfully to level the playing field, because you mentioned captain, captain of the football team, I think it makes me feel better to know he was follicly challenged. Like imagine he had this full thick head of hair. Like that's just too much for one man. Right? Like, it's like, you know, give us something. Now, why, why does there have to be that thing? That's just like, ah, you see,

that's not for him that's for you no you're exposing me as a selfless uh man a selfish man part of me but i wish i was selfless but here uh where was i going at the peter mansbridge thing so peter mansbridge was on toronto mic because he's selling a book okay but i just for the record ral Ben-Murgy has been on Toronto Mic'd several times for fantastic deep dive discussions without a book to sell. So thank you. This is true. Well, you're welcome. But as Peter said, so are we actually going to talk about my book at this point in time? Well, really, those previous Ben Merge episodes, a lot of those I was interested in sort of like the how the sausage is made on the media front.

Like I was very curious, as you know, about the Friday night show and, you know, midday. And then, of course, you're moved to Jazz FM. So a lot of that. And there is that in the book. But a few things I wanted to chat with you about that I learned from, I thought he was dead, a spiritual memoir. Order it now. Ben Merge told you what email address to. Info at walsackandwind.ca. So there's a few places I want to, I want to go here, but one is.

Or Indigo. Yes, Indigo. One is, okay. So last week Scott Turner was in my backyard. By the way, I noticed you're not in my backyard. Even though you're in Hamilton, that's just too painful a drive for you. Is that right? No, it's not just the drive, which is no picnic. It's, I tend to keep my distance still.

I'm still- Even outdoors? No, I mean, to a degree outdoors. But if I know that. So I could have come, but then I just think, you know, I can do this from my house and then get on with my day instead of it being five hours of my day to go do it. Come home. I went into Toronto to do a series thing, a video thing for somebody. And I had lunch with one of my kids, the only one who still lives in Toronto. And it's 1.30, and I go, okay, I got to go.

We're recorded at 2, and I said, okay, I'm going home. Should be all right. It took me, because there was an accident in Bronte, three and a half hours to get home. Three and a half hours. Right. Right? And you're sitting there thinking never again, right?

You're thinking, no, I can't do this. Well, what do we look? The whole pandemic thing, the beauty of it is like, what the hell have we been doing? Right. Running around like chickens with our heads cut off. You know how many people, you know, I love this thing of people on CERB don't want to go back to their work at a restaurant. Well, duh, they're getting paid nothing. They're living on tips. They have horrible hours. It's completely precarious work. No, I'm dying to go back to

that job. And, you know, I'm around all these people, exposed to all these people. So like what people are realizing is they've been taken for a ride. It's just as nuts. Like even just the amount of carbon we're emitting just by, oh, I got to go here. I got to go there. Now you ride your, you, you would ride your bike to Ottawa. If I had the time, I would, if I had the time. I know you would, but that's, you're a maniac and that's just insane,

but I'm not going to ride my bike to your house. God love you. I'd love to see you. Well, hey, let me, so this ties in nicely because Scott Turner, who was in my backyard last week, and I think he lives near you, but he bikes up a storm too. And after one of his 100-kilometer rides, he felt, you know, he's about, he's between our ages, like right in the middle of our ages, I'd say.

And he felt different. Like he couldn't catch his breath. He felt strange. And he told his doctor. At some point, they did some tests. They saw something in his heart that they didn't like. So he goes in. He actually Googles it.

Dr. Google tells him, prepare yourself for a stent. And this will tie into you in a moment. And he thinks, oh, man, they him prepare yourself for a stent and this will tie into you in a moment and he thinks oh man they're gonna put a stent in there but then while he's with the cardiologist they say we have to do quadruple bypass surgery right now like that so he went straight to quadruple bypass surgery because of this blockage i don't know 90 80 50 i can't remember the number of blockages right quadruple right and he's talking about that meanwhile in your book i'm reading about you got a stent is that right three so i got two and then one of them overgrew as they say six months later uh so they had to put another one through that one to keep it open and that was the one for the uh what they

call the widow maker artery, the LAD, the one that gives you, if you don't, aren't lucky enough to have angina, which he had obviously, a pain in your chest. If you don't get that,

you could be walking down, Doug Riley, Dr. Music, one of the greats of Canadian music, did a gig in Calgary, was going to the airport you know on his way right dead i hate saying it but died before he hit the ground you know massive heart attack and over so it's a silent killer for a lot of people you don't know your arteries are blocking i had

uh happened to my uncle at uh 58 years old like you yeah, just middle of the night, got up dead before he hit the ground as they say. Now, tell me your symptoms. Because firstly, I'm so happy we caught this thing so we could prevent you creating a widow as that expression implies.

Yeah, I would have been in a bit of trouble there. Was that marriage one or marriage two? Marriage two. Marriage forever. Right. yeah i would have been in a bit of trouble there was that marriage one or marriage two marriage two marriage forever right well i'm in the same boat brother we're gonna get into that look i'm now into uh this is my first marriage including the years before we were married is about 19 years and this one's about to be 20 and i'm going the whole hog on this one too bad you couldn't get to the big 2-0 that first time because you'd be in that exclusive 2020 club. Is that like 20 stolen bases, 20 home runs?

Yeah, that's right. There's a 40-40 club. I know that. Yeah, exactly. I think Barry Bonds used to be in there before he started juicing to a point where he couldn't steal. Barry Bonds. Sorry, you cheated. Bye. So what were your symptoms?

I just, I walked out in the cold. Like I say in the book, I just walked out in the winter morning to do my morning show at jazz FM. And, uh, I was like, Oh, what is that? And I felt like, is that an anxiety attack or something? I don't feel anxious. I'm okay. And I started to notice that it was happening a fair bit. So I went to see a doctor, my doctor, and I knock on the door of his office. And then I noticed there's a sign, this office closed until further notice. I was like, what? What is that?

So I think, okay, I got to go see somebody. So I go to the walk-in clinic around the corner from the house. And the guy says, who's your doctor? And I said, my doctor's name. And the guy was like, oh, yeah, he died. He's dead. I said, I beg your pardon. You know, that was my doctor. No, yeah, no, he died he's dead i said i beg your pardon right you know that was my doctor no yeah no he died so then i later i found out it was uh insulin shock that he died of but what i i mean bedside manner yeah you need some bedside manner in those you know i write in the book that my feeling was that you, when you have a waiter and you know that they're thinking, what am I doing here?

And I want to let you know, I'm better than this. This guy I felt in this clinic was thinking, this is not what I had in mind that I just end up in a walk-in clinic with a bunch of like, who's next? Number seven. So I got that vibe. But anyway, he was also quite helpful because he said, you have angina. I'm not your guy.

You need a cardiologist. And then it was a few months of just testing and all that. And then this guy just said, you're going right now to Sunnybrook and they're going to do an angiogram and see what's going on in there. And in the book, I say, I get up and I take the car keys, you know, out of my pocket, start walking, and he goes, what are you doing?

My wife was with me, and I said, are you going to drive? I said, yeah, you know, it's like one of the only times where it doesn't hurt right now right and he turns to my wife and he says if he drives i'm calling the police he's not to drive to this place and my wife took the keys and was like oh he's gone with this guy get in the car and then we went and uh there i am lying on a table watching a TV screen of my arteries, two of them blocked. Wow. Like they just get really narrow and you can see. And then they inject the, they do the stenting.

The second guy comes in and does the actual catheter through, in my case, my wrist up into my heart. In some case, you do it from the groin. And they insert them and then they inject dye. And you're watching all this. You're awake. It's like TV, heart TV. And you see a whole tree of arteries in your heart go open. Wow.

And there's a bit of pressure when that happens. And then it's not like you walk out going, I feel great. But you have now don't feel as bad and you can have to do the work to feel better. And approximately how long ago was this instance instance? Approximately. 11 years ago. Okay. So here's a, I'm going to, we're kind of friends.

I feel like I can ask you just about anything, but do you have it at that time? I realize it's quite the trek for Ralph to drive to the TMDS studio to sit down with me. And I respect that decision with all my heart and soul. But if Ralph had appeared here in the flesh, I'd have so much swag for him to bring home. Fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. A lasagna from Palma Pasta. A Toronto Mike sticker from Sticker U.

A $75 gift card for Chef Drop. In fact, that one's digital. So I'm sending that to Ralph regardless. Ralph, go to ChefDrop.ca and spend $75 because you appeared on Toronto Mic'd. And to the listeners out there, you can buy one, get one 50% off at ChefDdrop.ca when you use the promo code FOTMBOGO. Did I mention there's a new sponsor of the program? The Yes We Are

Open podcast is hosted by FOTM Al Grego. Al travels the country interviewing small Canadian businesses and then tells the story of their origin, struggles, and future outlook. If you're a small business owner or entrepreneur like myself, you'll find the podcast both helpful and motivational. Yes, We Are Open is available wherever you get your podcasts. Please subscribe at yesweareopenpodcast.com. And if Ralph were here, and I wish he was,

he would receive a Moneris-branded Bluetooth speaker so he can listen to the Yes Yes We Are Open podcast in style. Speaking of great podcasts, the CEO Edge podcast is from the good people at McKay CEO Forums. Enjoy fireside chats with inspiring CEOs and thought leaders. And bringing it closer to home, I want to thank Ridley Funeral Home. They're at ridleyfuneralhome.com.

And physically or geographically, they're here in New Toronto. They're at Lakeshore and 14th. Hello, Ridley Funeral Home. And hello, Mike Majeski. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. His motto, in the know in Mimico,

doesn't do it justice because he's kicking butt in the GTA and you can reach out to Mike Majeski at realestatelove.ca. Let him know Toronto Mike sent you and now back to my conversation with my rabbi Ralph

Ben-Murgy music do you have any uh feelings like a i wonder if you call it guilt or not but like your second wife here is i would say significantly younger than you is that fair to say like like do you ever feel like you know you, you're trying to, you know, here you are kind of having like an old man problem. Only because I say this because I'm only, and it's much shorter, much smaller gap than you. I have seven years, so I'm seven years older than my wife. And even with that seven years, there are some times maybe I'm having trouble reading the small print on the back or whatever, where it's like, you me help you old man like there's a little bit of like you know that's seven years you've got a significant gap there do you ever feel like how do i yeah so 16 years how do you stay young for your young wife like well the problem is you know when you have uh things that happen to you and

i'm already you know i i'm i'm kind of a schlubby guy. Like you're riding your bike, you know, to the lower mainland of British Columbia or something, you're doing your thing. And I'm thinking, you know, that's, that's a lot. I don't, can I, I love lying down. I love reading. I love lying down. I love reading. I'm kind of a slower moving guy. And my wife is like, she is just goes. And so what lately we've been doing is I finally just sort of went, you know what, you're right. I got to get more. I got to work out every day now. I just do. And so we have up here where I, in my third floor, we have a stationary bike and a rowing machine and there's an elliptical downstairs and another bike. So I'm now doing most days an hour a day. Oh, good. yeah the thing is you know i i love my wife and she's she's the

kind of person who can say to you hey man like you stop old manning it just get going like you know she kicks me in the ass and you know my ass really hurts but it's working out well we haven't even and we'll get to this in a moment because i'm going to set it up but we haven't even got to your most serious health issue so So we got to pace ourselves here, but I will just on the... Now, wait a minute. I should say that the purpose of talking about the health, which is not the purpose of the book, was to say mortality is real. Right. Don't take things for granted. And then I then start moving into, you know into how my career and my spiritual life weave into each other. But it's kind of the thing that grabs people.

It's just like, wow, you had this, then you had that. Because people love to talk about it. It's like a car crash. You want to take a look and say, is that going to be me? But it's not the purpose of the book. I thought he was dead is not about my health. It's about showbiz. When you're no longer in the limelight every day or on every day, then when people see you again,

they look at you and they think, they can't help it. I do it when people are on a TV show and I look at them and I go, I felt like I was dead because you haven't seen them in a while. So you don't, if you disappear, and it's about aging is also about disappearing. It's about just people starting to look over your shoulder, you know, as the gray starts to build in your hair, they start to go, well, not him. So it's the old saw, you know, who's Ralph Ben-Murgy, get me Ralph Ben-Murgy. Get me a young Ralph Ben-Murgy. Who's Ralph Ben-Murgy? Right? That's the trajectory of a life. So in five years from now, if you ask some young people who Peter Mansbridge is, they're not going to know.

Sure. Because he's not on every night. And so there's this thing about appearing and disappearing in life. So the I Thought He Was Dead, which lots of people love the title. My wife hates the title, but lots of people love it. But for me, it was really about that moment where people look at me and go, oh, hi.

And what they were doing was going, I thought that guy died, right? Because you're no longer public. And yet I still, now actually, ironically, in the last year, I'm much more public than I've been in a long time because I worked behind the scenes for the last 10 years. I helped other people say things. I didn't say them very much.

All right, Ralph, when you were at my door, I don't know how many years back this is now, three or four years, I don't know. But the very first time you said, this annoying guy in southern Etobicoke wants me to visit. What the heck? Let me visit this guy. Truly annoying. Which begs the question,

what were you thinking? But when you first showed me at the door, again, in my mind, 1993 Ralph Ben-Murray is going to be at the door. Because that's how my brain was working. I don't know. It's always worked like that.

It's like that's the last time. Well, it's natural. So 1993 Ralph Ben-Murray was not at the door. It was whatever that was, 2017 Ralph Ben-Murray, whatever. And you look different. And you talk about this in the book. But I don't think we've ever talked about this on Toronto Mic'd. I don't believe, I think we've had private conversations about it

and you've talked about it on Not That Kind of Rabbi, which is another podcast people should be subscribed to. But can you, and this is all in the book, but there's so much in the book, we're not here to read the book, but cancer, the big C, like that's a scary word. I even, they're even saying it, but you, you are a cancer survivor. Well, you know, I, I tend not to use words like battled and survivor. I had a cancer.

Um, and you know, it was a journey, uh, and it was, you know, it, it was in my nose. So it was in my face. Right. So it altered my nose. So my, uh, comforting, lovely Jewish nose, uh, you know, left the room and I ended up with, uh, what's his name? Stephen King. Stephen King.

See, that's how sad that is, you know. So I ended up with Stephen King's nose, which is like, what? Well, I only know because that's the reference you've used with me in the past. Yeah, just, you know, thinner nose and all that. So it changes your face, the shape of your face. And that becomes a whole Buddhist meditation about the permanence of things. You know, being a kid until I was 19, who was overweight, and really self conscious about my weight. And, you know, people calling me fat and not wanting to be on the skins team and the skins and shirts gym thing, you know, and then at 19, becoming slender. And there, my face looked different. All of a sudden, I had cheekbones and a jawline.

You know, girls who never talked to me in high school were just like, Oh, hi. And I was like, Oh, funny, you showed up. And now then this happens, and I don't look like the same guy anymore. And I just think, you know, just don't get attached to your looks, don't get attached to what you think people think you are. You're always challenged to reinvent the idea of permanence and impermanence. And the more we cling and grasp to the idea that we are something, I drink red wine, I don't drink white wine. Carol Dweck wrote a really good book about the growth mindset and the fixed mindset. And people with a fixed mindset, it is what it is, it's got to be like this, you cut a tomato this way. But a growth

mindset says, I am available to what's actually going on, and I will change whenever I need to. So when I got cancer, I had to really adjust, I had to have three different reconstructions, because my septum had collapsed and all these things. And now I have a different face. And yeah, there are, you know, times where I'm just like, wow, I really wish it had turned out differently. But on the other hand, I had a manageable cancer. And that's a good thing. That's a and you spend you know three or four months at princess margaret you know getting treatments you know for in my case radiation treatment you sit beside people who have had half their jaw removed and they're they're just trying to get

another month or two or three or six out of life. And you really got to breathe into it. You know, you really got to just be there and not try to pretend you're not them and you're better. But, you know, somebody, I thought of this thing, somebody was talking about, there's somebody I know right now who, and online he's talking about it, who's a musician who has a real situation with a cancer. And the way he was talking was so compassionate, you know, because when you really suffer in pain from something, you know, when you fell off your bike and really hurt yourself,

you can't help but feel for other people when you're like that, because you're, you know, I, so I wrote to him and I said, you know, compassion takes root in darkness and blooms and flowers in love. So it starts in a dark place, like, oh man, I really hurt myself, or oh man, I've got a serious illness going here. And I don't know about you, but I'll read something in a paper about somebody who's not doing well, and I'll just want to cry, because now I'm with them. So it was a hell of a lesson, hell of a lesson.

And without your health, you have nothing. Like really, that's your baseline mandatory prerequisite for all the other great stuff you're doing is you need your health. Yeah. But you know, there's different versions of health, right? So if you're not, I think health is, you know, obviously foundational, but so is how you see life. You know who I interviewed yesterday? Tell me. It was like home run. I did it for the Jazz FM podcast I'm doing once a month called The Torch.

How many podcasts do you have right now? Oh, my God, five. So The Torch, I'm serious. So The Torch for Jazz FM, and they got me. you have right now? Oh my God, five. So the torch, I'm serious. So the torch for Jazz FM and they got me, they helped me get Sonny Rollins. Wow, yeah. Oh my God.

90-year-old Sonny Rollins. And he was all about the spirit and spirituality. It was a great conversation. Amazing. Oh, I loved it. It was fantastic. Again, a million places I want to go with you but really quickly before i forget uh what exactly is ralph ben murgy doing for jazz fm right now the torch that's it once a month podcast six of them uh i'm doing something over the canadian

jewish news called you hope it's still which absolutely it's an interesting word because it used to mean that you were going to the big city. You were in the pale of settlement, the shtetls of the Ukraine and Russia, and somebody would be going to Kiev, and that was going to Yekaterinburg. Now, I don't know how, but it's now the exact opposite. You're going from the big cities to the middle of nowhere. Who named that podcast uh michael frayman is the producer i work with and he he he and some other uh mark uh come on give me wise blot wise blot oh sorry i think i know that i think the backstory i think is that this would be a name heard mark hebbshire using that expression on his podcast,

Hebsey on Sports. So I think Weisblatt hears Hebsey saying that word and thinks it would be great for the Ralph Ben-Murgy Canadian Jewish News podcast. And you know what? It's been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of fun. Somebody just got in touch with me yesterday to say i know somebody jewish who lives in japan are you interested and and i'm going to ask my producer but i i know it's not in canada but man i want to hear about jewish life in japan okay so like i'm just trying to get my scorecard right before we get back to your uh your your life here your spiritual memoir uh i i i there's a podcast for jazz fm you've now got when did that launch is that like relatively new i feel yeah yeah no no it's uh i think uh two have been on dave young the bass player guido basso the um the horn player um and uh

june garber i think was the last one that was on. And then we'll do Sonny Rollins in December, I think. I don't know. I just do them. Danny and everybody there, they figure out what to do. Okay, so Jazz FM has a Ralph Ben-Murgy podcast. The Canadian Jewish News has a Ralph Ben-Murgy podcast. Obviously, there is

still active Not That Kind of Rabbi, which is sort of the Ralph Ben-Murray podcast. Are there any others I should be aware of? Well, there's just a limited, there's one I'm doing a limited series for, for some folks about philanthropists and why they give. But, you know, it's interesting.

Oh, and I do one for Burlington Local News. Wow, look at you, you're the king of all podcasts. But I'm a consultant for them as well. Yeah, yeah, listen. You know, you should talk. You who do and produce 9,453 podcasts, including mine. Not that kind of

rabbi. Not that kind of rabbi. What were you about to say there? Lately, you've not been producing. I think COVID changed it up I think you just figured out whatever he's on autopilot I felt like you wanted your space when was the last time you suggested a guest to me

very recently actually and I was wondering why I never heard back but I actually sent you a note in the last couple of weeks and I don't know I'm afraid if I say the name it'll be embarrassing that you didn't want this person, but I'm going to tell you. No, no, quick question.

All right. So I'm now in my Gmail. Oh. Oh, now you're looking. I'm looking at it right now. October 5th, Mr. Ben Murky, which is what? Well, what's into you getting, I can hear you getting on the horse.

Yeah, because the subject line says, Blair Packham on music as his spirit guide. And I'm reading it now. If you're looking for a good conversation, Blair Packham believes there's something out there, but believes it arrives in the form of music. It would be a great, not that kind of rabbi. I could connect you if you're interested.

He's a very entertaining orator and a great musician. As you know. I know, Blair. I know, I wrote as you know with an exclamation mark. Listen to yourself, right? It's just pouring out of you. No reply. No reply. No reply.

No reply. All right. I will get in touch with Blair because I've known him forever. Oh, he would be great. And we haven't spoken forever. Him and Michael Zweig and everybody else, we would all hang. But, you know, yes. He would sound great on your podcast.

I have Michael Corrin coming on Not That Kind of Rabbi with his new book, The Rebel Christ. He's like a regular. He's... Michael is fantastic, I have to say. Having him on is just fantastic. Where is he at right now? He's Christian, but not Catholic.

Is that where we're at now? No, he is now an ordained priest. He's not even a deacon of the Anglican Church. He moved from the Catholic Church to the Anglican Church. He moved from right-wing Christianity to left-wing Christianity. And he has a fine mind, a nuanced, interesting mind. I've never seen anybody who can take trolls on with such class. He's hilarious when he responds to them. What do you think about that, though? Michael Korn is obviously a spiritual person, and he's simply seeking his flock? Is that what he's

searching for, his flock? No, he was seeking the spiritual path about seven years ago or whatever. He really came up against the kind of vitriol towards gay rights, LGBTQ, and the kind of vitriol against women's rights. And he just couldn't square it. uh, LD, LGBTQ, uh, and the kind of vitriol against women's rights. And he just couldn't square it. You know, uh, he was,

and he realized that he was just feeling intuitively he was on the wrong path. So he just, he lost all of his work. He had a TV show for 16 years. He had all kinds of things. He lost all his work and now he's just does great. You know, he reinvented and he's, you really got to admire what he did. And your next conversation with him, that's not that kind of rabbi. So if I'm, yeah, it'll be, it'll be about the rebel Christ. Amazing. Amazing. Hey, so cancer again,

because this is going to tie into some sentiment that you express in the book. thought he was dead that i want to explore with you because i totally relate to it but uh that's some scary shit right like you get this diagnosis and i mean as i speak to you right now on october 19th 2021 you're a-okay now right i mean uh i don't know how much you want to disclose okay that's good but at the, it's some scary shit. And you express in the book, and I'm reading this, where you talk about you have younger kids because you have the first set and then you have the first marriage. Well, I have the same exact thing, just smaller gap.

I know. I have a 12-year gap, I think, between my sets. But you've got, and then the second set. So what's the age of your youngest right now? 12. And how old was your 12-year-old when you got your cancer diagnosis? Approximately.

I think about two, two maybe? Because I have the same, two or three. And so right now as we speak, I have a five-year-old and a seven-year-old. And I have this strange thing

happening now where just on Thanksgiving weekend, I spent some time with my 19-year-old. And it's like, you're spending time with a man and he's very independent with his own thoughts. And you're thinking like, okay, and this is going to, I don't know how this will sound, but we can chat about it here. But I had this overwhelming feeling like, oh, like my boy doesn't need me anymore. And it's kind of this strange conflict of thing, like, which is exactly my boy doesn't need me anymore. And it's kind of this strange conflict of thing, like, which is exactly what you wanted to have happen. You literally did everything so that this day will come where you think he probably doesn't need you anymore. But it's a strange sensation when, you know, you were changing his diapers and all that stuff. And then, you know,

I was just with my 17 year old who did need me because she needed me to help her drive to the driver's test. And she does still need me a little bit here and there but she's pretty darn independent and at some point she won't really need dad anymore but then i have the five-year-old and seven-year-olds who need me so damn much like it's every day they literally like depend on me for so many different things and i think like i need to live for them like i can't i can't leave now because the five-year-old i still need in the seven-year-old but especially the five-year-old, I still need, and the seven-year-old, but especially the five-year-old, they still need me for X amount of years. Like I haven't become irrelevant yet. Like this is important.

I stay alive for these people. And you kind of express a similar sentiment. And then my thought is always like, what if I never had the second set? Like would I say, okay, well, like what am I, I don't know what my mindset would be because this is a whole hypothetical that never happened, but I found it very interesting that your, your thoughts turned to a need to live because you have young kids who won't even remember you maybe.

Think about it. The youngest one would have never even known who I was. I would have been a story in some pictures. So, you know, that's like, you know, I said, I think I say it in the book. I always say it to people when they say, because they always say, oh, you still have young kids at your age. It keeps you young. And I said, it doesn't keep me young. It makes me not want to die because I don't want to let them down. Now I have a 35 year old and a 32 year old and my 35 year old has two kids and my 35-year-old has two kids, and my 32-year-old has a kid. So, you know, I'm already a grandfather, and I have a 12-year-old and a 16-year-old. So the 12-year-old is just, you know, he's 12, for God's sake.

You know, it's crazy. But I don't know. That's an interesting question about, you know, let's say I never had the other set. My whole life would be completely different. I would not have had to schlep the 12-year-old out the door today. agenda, you know, stop reading big Nate, you know, like it's, it's a life that is like, what did this age? I shouldn't be doing, but clearly I should, this is my karma to be the father of four boys to, to father until I'm done is, is my agenda. Now, when you talk about the 19 year old in this weird feeling that they don't need you, I'm I've never had a problem with that. I actually think your job is your job to take care of them when they really can't be expected to take care of themselves, but let it go. It's their life. It's hard to watch sometimes. You want to go, come here, come here. What are you thinking? But I hold off as long as I can. And then

once in a while, I just go, have you considered this? Have you considered that? Because you're always there as a mentor. Sure. And what they need to know from you, no matter what you go through, including divorces and things like that, is that you love them unconditionally. I remember a therapist telling me when I was having trouble with my teenagers in the first brood, they said, you're not negotiating whether or not you love them. Make that clear to them. Just say, look, this is not about whether or not I love you.

This is about you telling me a lie and showing up at four in the morning, pretending your phone is dead, right? That's what it's about. It's about a behavior. It's not about, you know, name calling and shaming, you know? So for me, fathering is the hardest work of my life. Right. I'm sure you agree. Yes. Because you can say who you are till the cows come home. But if you are living that and it's bullshit, they can just look at you and go, that guy's full of shit. Like, he's completely not doing it.

He's telling me how to be, but he's being this. So, you know, it's an attempt to keep you honest. And I mean, yes, it's hard work, but it's primarily because it's by far, like, far away, the most important work you're ever going to do. Like it's sort of like when you look at your life at the end of it all and you're looking back, I feel like nothing. What's going to matter? It's going to matter like how you raised your kids and how they're doing. Like sort of that's like the, like it's just so damn important. Like that weight is so tremendous.

Yeah, and the big questions are the most interesting questions to me anyway. I mean, you know, in writing the book, I was really, at first I was really writing about spiritual stuff because I'm, part of what I am now is a spiritual director, a spiritual counselor, and I have clients and I work with them. I just finished a Jewish men's retreat this weekend. I was virtual because it was in Connecticut and I couldn't drive across the border. But that was the book until my publisher said, you've got to talk about your career. You can't. I said, well, you know, who cares? And she was like, no, there are people who will go, oh, I remember him on midday. I remember him

on Friday night. I remember on Ben Murgie in the morning. I remember him. And so you realize that and yuck yucks and stand up and doing all that, you know, like I've had a crazy kind of thing going. So she said, write about it and weave it into how your spiritual life works. And at one point in the book, I talk about hosting at midday with Valerie Pringle and, you know, having a great time. She was fantastic. We had a great time. And at one point, we're covering the first Gulf invasion, war, whatever you want to call it, in 1991. And I had this thought, you know, what if I showed up at work today with a kippah on my head, with a Jewish skullcap, a yarmulke on my head. I have every right to wear it. What if I just walked into the studio and sat down, and my director, who happened to be Jewish at the time, would just go into my ear and go,

what are you wearing? I'm wearing my kippah. Are you serious? Because then the editorial people and my producer, Suzanne Boyce, would have gone, hold on, everybody, hold on. And yet, why? Why would it have assumed then that I would have only been pro-Israel because I'm Jewish? Would it assume bias on every topic? real because I'm Jewish? Would it assume bias on every topic? So if I don't wear it, and I'm still spiritually in a Jewish path, what does that say? So it was a really interesting moment for me. When I was doing Friday night, I literally thought, I really shouldn't be doing this on the Sabbath, on Shabbat. I thought, where did that come from? So my spiritual life was always tugging at me,

saying, you know, this is what gives your life gravitas. You know, spirituality is about your relationship to yourself, to other people, and to the earth and the universe, right? A rabbi on this retreat last weekend said a great thing. He's a reconstructionist. That's a movement in Judaism. He's a reconstructionist rabbi. He said, in our view, God is the life energy of the universe. That's God.

And I thought, yes, that's what I've been trying to say for the longest time. It's not a guy with a naughty and nice list and a beard on a chair. That's Santa Claus. That's Santa Claus. Right? So I love all that stuff. I love just immersing myself in those questions. It's just really, to me, the most fun. Sure. Well, it's clearly always been in you. I mean, you were raised with it, right? Like this is something that's been with you since birth, essentially. But how does the cancer, I was going to call it a cancer scare, but you had cancer. That's not a scare. That's cancer. It's pretty scary, though. It's pretty scary, but okay. So how does the cancer diagnosis affect this, the Ralph Ben-Murray underlying spirituality?

Does it sort of like pump it full of steroids like Barry Bonds? What does it do? Well, I think it's what, from there it was, with the support of my wife, it was very, who's a humanist, not a religious person. She was like, I said, you know, I'm thinking seriously of taking this court, this three-year ordination program. You know, she said, well, why don't you just become a rabbi? And I said, my Hebrew is not great. And you really need your Hebrew if you're going to be a rabbi, because a lot of it is,

this is said in Hebrew, and it means this in English, but the root of the word and that stuff gives me a headache. So it was just like, no, I don't want to be that. And I don't want a congregation. And I don't want the politics of it, which is why I got the title for the podcast, not that kind of rabbi, because then someone said, well, do you want to be a rabbi? I do, but not that kind of rabbi. the politics of it, which is why I got the title for the podcast, Not That Kind of Rabbi, because then someone said, well, do you want to be a rabbi? I said, I do, but not that kind of rabbi, right? So instead, I went into this for three years. And in the book, I love writing about

just that whole journey of just, okay, this is what I'm going to do. And now it's a big part of my life. It's a normal, lovely part of my life that always makes me have to think about my ethics. And I'm not somebody who is observant, and to a degree I am, but I'm not. I think religion is in crisis. I think religion has, and rabbis I talk to agree, you know, congregational life for all religions is problematic. And I think one of the big reasons is because we are taught this kind of pediatric religion when we're kids of this miracle and that miracle. And instead, in my worldview, those stories of those scriptures, all of them, the Bhagavad Gita,

all of them, the Dharma talk, when it comes to the stories of the Bible, for instance, I take them as metaphor. So if there's Pharaoh pursuing me to the Red Sea, the Pharaoh is the inner tyrant of my life, the one that will not let me be free. And then when they finally are free, the Israelites are horrible and incompetent and whining, complaining people constantly. And I realized that's because when we say we want to be free, when we get our freedom, we don't even want it. So for me, I take all those things as a jumping off point for a conversation about our internal life and how we can become better for other people by working on those things. Hard to believe those words from a man who once took the stage at Yuck Yucks to try to make people laugh.

I don't think so. Tell me. Inside a lot of standups is a preacher. You know, these are your sermons, your bits. You are trying to, you know, you watch the good ones. And they're not up there just to make you go tee hee hee. They're challenging you about your life. You know, Sam Kinison, who actually was going to be a minister at one point,

I think he even got there. There's two things that I noticed about comics. One was they're preachers. And the other one is they're drummers. They have rhythm. They have to, to be funny, you've got to have rhythm. You've got to know that I'm going to now say something, but not everything at all. So which beats did I take?

And how much tension am I creating in my audience? Right? But then the other part was the ones who you know here was a guy that mark breslin breslin used to bring up the best people from the state from new york particularly instead of la totally different comics there was a guy named uncle dirty he was fantastic and gilbert godfrey would come up right and he'd do his bits and nobody even knew what the hell he was talking about. You know, I like to do impression now. The Pope at the dentist. Rinse.

And the audience would just stare at him. Steve Wright came up from Boston. Nobody laughed. He goes on Carson, comes back. Everybody laughed. They're laughing at his setups. And he's pissed. He's like, what are you laughing at my setup for you're screwing up my timing you're just laughing because you think oh

my god this guy might be famous so i loved all that i loved all the stand-up was uh but i also knew that i wasn't going to spend my life as a stand-up and so i ended up doing hosting way more than that because you could also go on more often and get paid right right and I you know my act did not make me think oh my god I've got to do this Mike McDonald could write he had like seven hours of act it was unbelievable Norm McDonald well I was gonna ask you about Norm because we were just talking about your cancer and Norm of course once made the statement and you mentioned you don't like the words battle and i agree with you like there's no battle here there's no victory because as norm put it uh you know cancer doesn't win at worst it's a tie like the when the host dies

the cancer dies so at the worst of the time and i was gonna ask you about norm you know when norm had cancer when we were a lot younger. He used to smoke a lot. And I remember we were in a hotel room someplace, me, him, and somebody else waiting to go on at something. And he said, yeah, I'm so I think I got to quit smoking. And so I think I got to quit smoking. And then a couple of weeks later, I find out that he says this because he had throat cancer and he quit smoking. And that was it. Never saw another cigarette in his mouth. But he what he had was he was not risk adverse.

So you could say to him on a Tuesday night, go do a bit on, you know, a goalie stick. And he would just share, walk out there and even make it up. Other guys, Tuesday, 14 people in the audience, and they had to do their act. It's like, seriously? You need to do your act for 14 people? So Norm, you know, he just had the chutzpah to do it.

Look, I mean, I found the reaction to his passing very interesting. His brother, Neil MacDonald, was, and I know Peter talked about Neil when he was with you, but he was just as interesting in terms of journalism. He was not going to take crap from people. He was going to tell it like it is. Jewish people in Canada hated Neil McDonald's coverage of the Middle East. I really liked it because having been there and having been there as a journalist, this guy understood that everybody thinks they're right and everybody thinks the other guy's wrong. So I remember he came back, Norm came back once, Neil came back, and we were sitting in a coffee shop at the CBC. And I said, so your take, because he now was going to move to the Washington Bureau. And I said, your take. And he said, Ralph, these people are

fucking crazy. Like all of them are crazy. They're all so righteous about what they're doing, but I cannot see how they're going to work this out. They're just at each other's throats. It's nuts. And I love that. And Norm was like that too. He just, he was just jumped right in both feet. Damn the consequences.

So I dug him. Did you ever share a yuck yuck stage of Norm? Yeah, sure. we would go on i mean everybody who ended up making it we were all from a time i i didn't make it as a stand-up i have friends today obviously who still do stand-up like 40 years later i have friends who still act 40 years later and i just think god love. I just did not have the cojones for that. One of those friends who still does it, I don't know, maybe you know this because some of this chatter

happened on Twitter in front of everybody, but John Wing Jr. is coming on Toronto Mic just to talk about those yuck yuck days and he says he can do your entire act. He can do everyone's act. No, it's unbelievable. He can do everyone's act. Like word for word.

No, it's unbelievable. He does a bit you did 40 years ago, 45 years ago. He does a bit you did and you're like, I completely forgot that I did that bit. He and I were talking at one point about we should really do the real stand-up, the Canadian stand-up, the Canadian stand-up documentary. Because I always envisioned it as everything that we did

that you would shoot offstage would be in black and white. And everything, all the footage and all the things you would shoot, that would be in color. Because, you know, I remember Mike McDonald saying, oh my God, like 23 hours of sitting around just to get an hour up there. But once I'm up there, it's like, okay, it's fucking worth it. A lot of these people,

hopefully this does not happen to John Wayne Jr., who is alive and well and will be on Toronto Mike shortly. But, you know, a lot of these names you're dropping from, and I know Sam Kinison was a car accident, I believe, but Norm MacDonald and Mike MacDonald died rather young, like too young. how look from the late 40s on you will know people in your life that don't make it right die of something of course right in your 50s you start to know more people like that in your 60s you start to know even more people like that uh we don't, that's what one of the things that's so intriguing about this. It's so, I sometimes say it's just a blink in the eye of God. It's just, it's,

lately I've been saying to people, we're here, we dance, we wave goodbye. Right? That's it. we wave goodbye. Right? That's it. That's it. So yet, we want to live with this illusion that we are not going to die. You, my friend, I'm sorry to say, are going to die. But I, on the other hand, have a right to live forever. Right? Like, there's a book by Yuval Hariri called Homo Deus. Yuval Hariri called Homo Deus. He wrote a few years ago. He also wrote Homo Sapiens, but Homo Deus. And in it, he talks about, you know, the Googles and Amazons of the world. You know what those people are working on? Immortality. They're now God, right? And they're literally hoping to, do you really want to live for 700 years? You know, are you Noah in the Bible at 912? No, I don't.

What am I going to do? How much golf can a person play? I don't even like golf. How many podcasts can you possibly hold? I mean, the point isn't to live forever. The point is to live. Right, right. Wow. You know, this book, again, I Thought He Was Dead, a spiritual memoir, is so rich with just, if you enjoyed any of this past hour I spent

with Ralph Ben-Murray, you're going to love the book. And again, just drop that email address again. Like somebody listening right now says, okay, I got to read this book. I Thought He Was Dead. So it's, what I'm getting is a lot of people telling me that the big stores are not happening. They're taking forever. Maybe Indigo will get a little quicker. Some people are getting it. But the easiest thing to do is to go to the publisher,

which would be info at Wolsak and Wynn. And that's spelled W-O-L-S-A-K, Wolsak. And, oh, one word this, Wolsak and Wynn, W-Y-N-N, no E,.ca. So info at WolsakandWynn.ca. Or just look for Wolsak and Wynn, Google them, and you'll see all the books they have. And order the book through them and they'll just ship it out to you right away.

I noticed I didn't make the cut. I'm sure I'm on the cutting room floor somewhere in that early draft, but Toronto Mike did not make the book. Yeah, sure. It's like the entire second half. You just didn't finish the book. You're lazy.

It's not my fault. Oh, there's stuff about you and your your your second marriage and the basement and loose skizzes lou and i don't talk anymore uh we should have them on the two of us and him well you can book that one yourself. Ralph, last question, because we've, you know, it's kind of a, last question would be, yeah. Barry Bonds and Lou Skeezes, what do they have in common? Ben Murdy buzzed them both here.

Performance issues. Okay, go ahead. How often, and here we are in 2021 here, but how often do you think about Stuart McLean? Oh, all the time. That's a great question. They just replayed Vinyl Cafe stuff on CBC. Yes.

Stuart was one of the most quirky and gifted and interesting people I've ever met. He was my broadcast teacher. He's the one who said, don't finish your degree. You should leave now because you're 29. You know what the hell you're doing. Go get a job. CBC has one out in Winnipeg. Why don't you try there?

We stayed friends all the way through uh i was a student uh he was doing a talking tape and he put the microphone a quarter inch from my lips he was going to chip my tooth and this guy's really weird but really interesting and he'd already had a career as a documentarian Sunday morning at CBC. And then he was doing the talking tapes with Peter Zosky that were incredible and so funny. He hadn't done Vinyl Cafe yet, which started mostly as a music show

with David Amor as his producer. And we just got along. I took him to see Gil Scott Heron once. And then, you know, years later, we ended up doing Christmas special together. We're driving to Belleville to shoot this thing at the Empire Theater there for TV. Cause he was very reluctant to do a TV version of anything for you thought it

would really ruin the vital thing. And, you know, the special was okay, but didn't do great. They still have it. And I'm driving and he goes, you know, I've been thinking about I've been thinking about this lately. I shouldn't have told you to leave. You should have finished the degree. So great. That's just great. Fantastic. Now you tell me this now, now that I have no degree, because you said go he said you know you're the only person i told to do that i shouldn't have done that and i said to him you know the vinyl cafe you know i'm walking down the street you know he's doing this whole thing and he's like jimmy stewart for canada right right so he's doing this thing and, you know, does it ever seem weird to you that your

actual life, which has divorce in it, and all these complicated pieces of it, and then this idyllic town you make, you know, does that just ever jar you? And he got agitated. He's like, no, no, no, don't no don't know you don't it's a storytelling thing it's not that and i had oh i i kind of picked that at that scar shouldn't have done that um but then when he got sick you know uh he he wasn't seeing people much uh but uh when he died i was really sad i just thought, like when you said, you know, people who go too soon, sometimes when people are so gifted, you just think a little more, just a little more would have been great.

So yeah, I loved Stuart. I was lucky. I was on CBC a little bit, a few years ago, and his producer was on to, she was going to do a retrospective and we sat together and just, you know, shared real Stuart stories, not, you know, gee, I saw my stage ones, but real Stuart stories. And when it was over, Jess, who was his producer said to me, thank God, we just did this together because we really knew who the guy was and it was

great to just talk. So I love, I love Stuart McLean. Ah, we miss Stuart and, uh, I love Ralph Ben-Murgy and, uh, I can't wait for our next conversation, but thanks for doing this, my rabbi. My pleasure. And let's do a kick out the, uh, the jams together again. Soul. See, just like that. Thank you for doing this. I really, really appreciate it, Mike. And that brings us to the end of our 934th show.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at TorontoMike. Ralph is at RalphBenMurgy. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. ChefDrop is at Get Chef Drop. Use the promo code FOTMBOGO.

Moneris is at Moneris. McKay's CEO Forums. They're at McKay's CEO Forums. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home. They're at Ridley FH. And Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group,

they're at Majeski Group Homes on Instagram. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't go away This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.