Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Remembering David Farrell: Toronto Mike'd #1608

Episode Date: December 27, 2024

In this 1608th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined by Richard Flohill, Dave Charles and Bill King as they remember their friend David Farrell. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Yes We Are Open podcast from Moneris and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1608 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Season 7 of Yes We Are Open, an award winning podcast from Minaris, hosted by FOTM Al Gregor. RecycleMyElectronics.ca Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past.

And Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. During one of Dave Charles' visits to the TMDS studio here, I think it was maybe Dave's second visit, he talked to me about writing for FYI Music and the work of his friend David Farrell. And I remember mishearing the name at first. I was hearing Dave Farrow, who is the former program director at 102.1 The Edge. And then we sorted that out. And then Dave, because he's a prince,

he tried to connect David and I, David Farrell and I, so David could follow in the footsteps of Richard Flowhill, Dave Charles, Bill King, and become an FOTM. But sadly, that never happened. And on December 19th, 2024, just a week ago, we learned that David Farrell had passed away at the age of 73. And this episode features the aforementioned Richard Flowhill, Dave Charles, and Bill King. And they'll be telling me about their friend, Dave Charles and Bill King, and they'll be telling me about their friend, David Farrell, as we pay tribute to this giant of the Canadian music industry.

Richard Flowhill, hello to you, sir. Good morning, how are you? I'm well, thank you. And thanks for phoning in, dialing in. We had a few technical issues, but we hear your voice loud and proud, and it's great to have you on this memorial episode. So thanks for doing this. I'm happy to be here.

And I'm going in order of age, if you noticed. So next up, I see, I'm just kidding, Dave Charles. Dave, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing well. Mike, thank you for organizing this show. I know it's a holiday rest of week for most of us, but this is such an important guy in our lives and a dear friend. In fact, I'm going to use the word mate. Mateship is more than just friendship. It's somebody who you share a lot of mutual

experiences with and somebody who you will assist no matter what. David was that kind of guy. He assisted me from my radio background into being a pseudo radio journalist, and I wrote some interviews and things. But he mentored me all the way through that. In fact, he encouraged me to get the late Jim Waters on an interview, which I did. But I owe all of that to David, plus many great times. He allowed us to organize Canadian Record Week when it first started back in the early 80s. So

David Farrell is a huge statue in my life and I miss him dearly. Well, I'm going to introduce Bill King as if he needs an introduction and then I'm going to disappear into the background and I'm going to listen as you three chat about the the life and times of David Farrell and your memories of him and basically let's let's remember this giant again this giant of the Canadian music industry and let's educate some of the kids who are maybe they don't know the name and maybe they're dumb like me and they think we're talking about some other guy we're going to do this proper but let's say hello to Bill King how you doing Bill'm doing great, except that I'm looking at the Zoom photo

and I look like the old Lebowski. That rug though, that rug really ties the room together. No, I really appreciate this because David was a great friend and I only have like the past 12 years with it, but it's been a constant 12 years because it all come about just through writing. And it came about through Gary Slate because Gary was kind of underwriting FYI.

I think FYI started in 2008. I think it ran for about 16 years until it got taken over by Billboard. But I came in 12 years back. And I guess the great thing about it was, Gary says to David, this guy can write. And you need to find him, find room in there for him in your blog at the time. And we talked and we found just common ground.

We found that we got along great and the fact that he loved music, he loved the industry, and he loved the whole thing. So unlike a lot of the writing that's out there now that's more like AI generated or I call it indifferent writing that it's basically just outlines a subject and there's not any content. David's whole thing was about put yourself in the articles and this is what we talked about that in writing for him no matter what the topic was it was still about storytelling you know and also remembering those in the industry, which was great because here's one of the points was when David, Dave Charles and us wrote for him and stuff, we didn't forget those who built the industry and they actually turned out in a few

books for me, but it was time to go back to David and get the story out about who each person was. I don't care if they were a photographer, a writer, or a booker, or record guy and stuff. We were able during those 12 years to document the lives of others. And I found that, to me, exhilarating beyond just saying what record was hot, you know? Those things that are basically what are billboard kind of things where you just post the top 100 and everybody gets excited about that. But it was about the read. So that's kind of my thing with David.

Well, you're singing my song there. Richard, can you take us back when you first met David Farrell and who he was in this industry? Take us back. Let's listen to Richard Fowle. Well, I was about to do that. First of all, I have to say that one of the things about being old, and I am very old, older than most dirt, is that while we have pretty good, I have pretty good memories,

I never remember exactly when anything was. I think the most important thing that Dave did was initiate an era of professionalism into communication within the business. There were a number of communication things in the 50s. Ray Sonnen, who had been an English editor of a music magazine in the UK, started something that didn't last very long. And then Walt Grealess and Stan Cleese started RPM, but with all due respect to their work, they were really amateurs. They were not journalists. They also were sort of gossip mongers. I never thought that their work, and this is sacrilege in the music business, but the

hell with it. I never thought their work unified the business the way it should have been. Then Joey C started a magazine that David was a contributor to and then David started his own record world, sorry, the record and asked me and another guy called Larry LeBlanc who's been a writer for Billboard and a publicist and who knows what all else and he and I made myself the reviews editor and I reviewed I don't know hundreds of records mostly got it right sometimes spectacularly wrong and I'm proud to say that I wrote something for every single issue of the record over however many years it was. Now Dave, help us out because I know Richard's struggling with the years and

the times, he's got all the flavor though, but please Dave Charles, when abouts does the record launch, that trade magazine? I think it was 1981, if my stats are right. So 1981, that's a 20 year history until Gary Slate got involved. And Gary is a very key player in his life because Gary gave not only the financial support and the business, uh, you know, now some experience he had, but he really supported David.

And, and, and Gary Slate, you know, for his business acumen and radio skills, was a great supporter of young Canadian talent with Slate Music and he really gave David that platform to do his thing. And David being a legitimate music and broadcast journalist, you know, took it from there. And he really, then he started to create off of Neil Dixon He created Canadian Music Week Which was really important because it brought the industry together and from that, you know FYI came out of out of all of that and it continued to chronicle all the various music artists and events and until

Billboard Canada took over and you know, and it's still menu is pretty much the same, but it's a different style But David was there during those formative times as Richard Flohill spoke of the 50 year history and 50 years plus of his experience and ability to Chronicle all of that all of that history and and he was a great advocate and supporter of unsung Canadian artists and bands, which I'll never forget. And in a project I did, which was Element FM, which was the first couple of Indigenous stations in Ottawa and Toronto, David was there day one when we launched to support that. And the reason he was there is because he knew, as I did, there was a lot of indigenous music that never heard, was heard on the radios

in Canada, both CBC and commercial radio. And he was there to support that we would be successful. So, that's just a little bit of background and dates to try to attach things for, for what David did. See, I think off the top of this memorial episode, we'll get a little, we'll get the bio right and then we'll hear stories about David just as a friend and a colleague. So just so I understand, okay so in the early 80s and Richard you're part of the trio here that launches the

record so it's great to have you on the call but the record runs for about 20 years and out of this comes Canadian Music Week, this is like launches out of the record, is that right Richard? Yes it was and I think one of the biggest mistakes that David made was that he felt that an convention was not part of his remit as a journalist. And he sold it for, I think, for a sort of figurative dollar to Neil Bixson and who changed the name of it. And I think it was the biggest mistake David ever made. It has become an event and it's now changing again, but I wish David had kept it. It would have been run effectively and efficiently and with some heart and soul that I felt that perhaps it had been missing.

Dave, would you echo those sentiments? Canadian Music Week, I actually did not realize that this that comes out of the record in the early eighties, that it was launched from that. I had, I did not. Well, I think Richard, Richard's got part of the story, right? And I want to add to the rest of it. Remember I went to, I went to Australia. I was headhunted to go there to join a

broadcast group and develop other radio networks in 1993. So here I am in Australia, developing new radio networks in Malaysia, offshore, Vietnam, Singapore, and I'm hearing Canadian music from a different perspective. So any Canadian song that came into my head, I said, well, this is, you know, Atlanta Miles was breaking then, and the Tea Party, and Rush was big, and you know, Bruce Colburn would tour there on a regular basis. But seeing the Canadian music industry grow and add Shania Twain and Adelaide, she was just a young artist starting

out and she killed it down there and Brian Adams, all these artists were Canadian and well known to me. So to see the Canadian industry grow in a worldwide sense, you know, from Australia and New Zealand and watch it grow there. So I realized then and there that it was a matter of just making sure we had the pipeline open so that all the other artists that came after that or around that time, um, just added

to the presence of Canadian music and what Neil Dixon did, cause I used to run into him on the road in Malaysia and Singapore and Australia. He would be promoting. He was the big carny out there saying, come, come to Canadian music week. and he'd be wheeling and dealing and putting packages together for people to visit.

And he would honor different countries every year and, and shine the spotlight on Sweden or Australia or, or countries in Europe and that. And I thought that was really clever because when you came to Canadian music week and you saw these artists and people from other countries came in, it was start, it started to grow bigger and bigger. So Canada's music industry went from like nowhere to the number eight in the world

just this past year and that's a remarkable achievement. So I give Neil and his team credit for that and I think, you know, David Ferrell was certainly supportive of that and part of that whole thing. So and the people rallied around that and realized that, you know, I deal with America all the time, every single day in my business, but you know, the Americans realize there's a lot of great talent up here. And you know, for years and years, they would try to rip us off. But when we became legitimate because of these music festivals and Canadian Music Week is

a part of that legitimacy. We really had an industry that was holding its weight around the world and that's critical to know and it's an important fact and a credit of that goes to David Farrell. And also I just say I was just going to say I was at the beginning of this Canadian Music Week as far as being on the original board that was supposed to be there. It was me and Eddie Swartz and others for them to get funding, for Neil to get funding. And much like Bravo and Much Music and everything, they were asking for commitments from my side

of the community, which was jazz and blues and stuff like this. And we were to have this great representation in this thing, and it lasted one year. It was like Bravo, just like much music that our side of the community felt like it was being used to give credibility and to round out the applications and the funding for this. And then, because then we all disappeared, but I will say that at least doing those early things like that were stepping stones to creating the Beaches Jazz Festival and other things like that. That will come down the line.

But in the beginning, Canadian Music Week was supposed to be much broader in the music scope than what it became really quick. And that was that was my disappointment in the situation. I thought you know if you're going to promote music you know look at everything we have because some of the greatest musicians we had were in jazz and blues and world music and other entities and they were left out of that. And if I can add to that, when I was involved as president of CCMA, Canadian Country Music was in a low ebb. You know, it was people like David said go to Nashville, meet the people down there and as a result of that Nashville came here and we developed the country music network out of that

relationship. And then later on I was chairman of of Carras, very political. I was the only radio guy ever to sit in that chair and uh you know the arrows were coming at me right and left. It was David Farrell at a lunch who said you know we got to take this show across Canada and I said I believe in that 100 percent. So we moved the Junos away from Toronto and went to every single major city in Canada and they still do that today and that that is the way it should be. But the other thing that David said, look every province should have a music organization that supports their own and feeds into into Keras, which made Keras incredibly strong because if you don't have music committees that can organize these events you'll never get

the Junos to showcase that. And from that, developing the indigenous music categories, which were ignored, and we did that through Sylvia Tyson and Buffy St. Marie. So all this, this is a conversation that we're having with a guy we're honoring here today, David Farrell, and David was part of that conversation and extremely supportive in giving us space in the magazines that he wrote for. And that kind of encouragement for a radio guy sitting in a music chair was really, really instrumental. And that's thanks to David Farrell. And you too. I'm just going to say about the Karras thing, because you came to me and you said we have to have jazz on the Junos. And I had just wiped my hands of doing award shows. And then you came to

me and I said, we'll find the funding and Heather, I, Oscar Dagg and Jim West. And we all sat down and went, okay, let's get jazz on the Junos. And we had that big celebration of Massey Hall, the greatest event. But it was also being on the screening committee where we could get snow on the air and get the first hip-hop because we were being battled and fought against the labels and everybody else going, no, you can't put this guy on because he's going to say something wrong and we can't have hip-hop on air. But we all stuck together and we made that breakthrough. And these incremental steps that were done. And the other thing too is he said,

I said, David, I got a real problem. I said, I'm sitting here in a music chair supposed to represent all of Canada. And that includes Quebec and the Maritimes. And I said, I've got a problem with the disc because they don't recognize and see the industry. They have a very successful music celebration every year. More of their artists go to Paris and Europe

than I can count. But he said, get together with Donald Tarleton. And it was Donald Tarleton that introduced me to the president of a disc. And we put that together and I said, you know, how we're going to do, there's this young artist by the name of unknown at the time, Celine Dion. Uh, we're going to get her to host the show in

Toronto. That was the one. And she was amazing. You know, when I got Renée Angile, her manager and husband, and he said, are you sure about this, Dave? I said, I am absolutely. I want to do this for a reason. And I got a letter from the Premier of Quebec.

Can't remember his name at the moment. But he said, thank you. Thank you for opening the doors to our artists. We so much respect and appreciate what the gesture you have made and we will not forget this and as a result We had the rock cuisine come in and other other artists Michelle Pagliaro and and it just went on from there and you've got you've got to get in I went to the I went to their award shows I went to their meetings and you know

I felt I felt sort of an outsider looking in, but they invited me in, and I took advantage of that. And again, thanks to David Farrell, he said, go do it. You know, you can do it. You've got the position. Use your position to make it meaningful and do something, which we did. And also, I just want to say something about the core writers that he had, Karen Bliss, Nick Crouhan, and Kerry Duell. And to have a core of writers who were real journalists and who could write and write without, write in such a way to tell the story,

the music and cover it in detail was really, that was really on him because he picked the folks, and he had a sense that these people would be on time, they would bring something, each thing. You know, we were writing three, doing three a week, and you know, and you're doing three interviews a week, you know, for FYI. That was insane. I remember the Monday morning calls with David. David called and I said, David, how did my last article go? And he said, well, you know, you need to tweak this up and do this, change

this around. And I said, I didn't know that. He said, well, I'm a journalist, you're not, you know? So I felt like a kid at school. But thank God he told me that. And gradually through, you know, just repetition, I learned to position things properly. But he was so thoughtful that way. He was never heavy handed, he never felt like he were being criticized, he was always supportive. And he said, you know the broadcast guys, you can call them up anytime, I can't do that. So he said, here's how to go. And when he pointed me toward the late Jim Waters and said, nobody can get Jim Waters,

you got to go do that. It took me three months to get Jim to do an interview and, and, uh, that's David Farrell. David Farrell said, you gotta get it. You gotta get it. You know, so. Well, I'm getting a sense of the man I never met, but I want to bring in Richard for a moment here. Richard, can you tell us a little more about the man that you worked with so closely for so many

years at the record? Tell me about David Farrell. It's interesting because David and I both started, uh, careers, if that's the right word, in journalism in England. He was a boy newspaper reporter and so was I. So we shared that in common. We both liked music, although David relatively rarely went to hear live music. He didn't.

I'm a complete idiot. I keep a note in my journal. I've been to 126 live music gigs this year, which is insane, but it gets me out of the house. David didn't go to many gigs. But the best thing about his journalism was as we were taught in the UK, get the facts right, try and keep one's own emotion out of it, just report the facts. And as a news gatherer, he was very effective. He made a lot of contacts. People instinctively liked the guy. liked the guy and I think I've been missing him so much in the last few weeks. We had a long conversation. I called him up, he was living in New

Brunswick and working remotely and I would call him every couple of weeks, how you doing, what's happening, what's new, blah blah blah, and he said, oh I'm very sick, I'm dying, I don't think I'll see Christmas, and he was almost cheerful about it, I mean certainly accepting in a way that, alas, I know I will not be, and he said, well, he had told me long before that what he would really like to do when he retired, which he was going to do in January 1st, was go to Vietnam and hang about and see if he liked it. And if he didn't stay there, that was his sort of plan. But as I said in one of the pieces I wrote, men make plans and God laughs. And I talked to David three days before he passed, two days

maybe, I don't know. And he was just so accepting of what was going to happen. And he chose to die at his own, you know, with medically assisted death, with sort of a surprising acceptance and ease. And that itself was inspiring for me. I find that astounding. I have thought about that and discussed this with Christine. I found, as with you, I had spoken to him over the last few months and I knew this was coming. But two days before we talked and it was as if like we're just talking and there's no fear. There's no there's no regret. And then somewhere along the line, the conversation he says to me, Bill, I got a call from this, you know, this this musician.

You know who it is. And and they say to me, David, I hear you're dying. And it goes, yes, it's not good. And the princess says, well, you know, I got a new record coming out next week. And we started laughing and laughing. We just kept laughing. We couldn't, it was just like, it's just like the industry we're in

because the promotion thing just goes on. No matter what. And David just said, oh, wow, this is the industry we're in. Bill I had a call, lucky to get through to David and I got him two days before the 19th when he passed. Yeah. And he said, Dave, I'm glad you called.

He said, it's all good here. He said, but you know something, mate? He says, we've been making egg salad sandwiches all wrong. He said, listen, he says, you don't smash the egg. You don't smash it up and add mayo. He says, you slice the egg, you lay that on the bread, then you add the mayo and whatever you want He said that's respectful for the egg

And back he said one of my last meals I'm going to part wash Nova Scotia And I'm gonna get a proper egg salad sandwich made in front of me And then I'm gonna get a hot cup of chicken noodle soup and some cider And I said David I wish I was there with you, May, that sounds fantastic. That's David. And one of the things I want to just add to that, that little story about the egg salad sandwich, you know, David said, there's no free buffet

at the Zanzibar. I lied. That was hysterical. And he said, and he said, he said, uh, final request, he says, I want everybody who reads this to pay it forward, do something nice for someone you don't know. You know, your best friend, David Farrell, that's how he signed off.

Yeah, wasn't it amazing? I was in tears. I didn't know what to say. Yeah, I just, it's still one of those things that, you know, it's the seven o'clock in the morning phone calls. And I'm sitting here and I'm just up and I get the phone call. So what's going on with Christine? And I go, she's still sleeping.

And he goes, we'll wake her up. And I said, I'm not going to do that. And he just thought that was funny. And then the other side of the great phone calls was the, and the lunches we would have was, as you said, Gary Slate was a big part of his thing all along. Never once did he ever say something that was, never bit the hand of Fed, than that was never bit the hand of Fed, but always reminded whoever it was what Slate did for him and what he did for the industry. And he always said there should be more. There's enough people in this industry that have the money, have the resources, they could do more.

But Gary seems to do it all. You know, to that point, is that to that point, Ville? He respected Gary Slate and people like Gary who could be alive. Yeah, very much so. You know, and the thing of respect is what I'll remember about David because we all know there's a lot of rumormongers, a lot of people who tell lies about other people and really distort the truth and the good things that are happening in our industry. David Farrell never indulged that.

He just walked away from that. And I love him for that because we've all been guilty of it some way, passing on a, oh, I just heard about and it's wrong, it's a lie. And you're spreading that lie because you don't know. You didn't fact check. You weren't sure. David was a journalist. He would fact check. He knew the sure. David was a journalist. He would fact check.

He knew the truth. And I love that about David. Where the fuck is the integrity in our business? It starts with people like David Farrell and Gary Slade in my view. Yeah, I really agree with you. I would just say one funny thing that I was with Stan and Walt on a sea cruise, right? When they had RPM. And I always thought that, as you said before, and as Richard had said that, you know, celebrity gossip. And it was about, you know, who did we meet today? And Stan used to have these memorographic sheets

when you had memor graphs, and he'd have a picture of, here's Elton John, here's this and stuff. And he would put them on the tables at poolside. And then people would walk up and go, what is this? And then he would walk over and go, so well, I've met so-and-so, I've met so-and-so, I've met so-and-so. It was a different kind of journalism, or if you even call it that, but it was celebrity driven rather than getting to the core of the artist. What it was artist driven was who we met and who we will be dining with or who will come to see us to try to get their records played. Yeah, I find people like that are grossly insecure to begin with. You know, they have to use other people's fame for them to say, oh yeah, I met him and

I know him. And you know, and most of it is bullshit and we don't, we don't like that. But you know, let's honor David also, do you realize in 2018 David was inducted into the Canadian Music and Broadcast Hall of Fame? And recently this year he was, he was given a lifetime achievement award, the Alan Slate Lifetime Achievement Award for excellence. I mean, those are two prestigious awards. Winning one is enough.

He has won, and respectfully so, given both of those awards. And whatever awards mean, these two awards mean something to people who've served in the industry. This is acknowledged by your peers, not people voting, you know, and I think that that's an extra already. We should acknowledge David for those accomplishments as well. Absolutely. All the way around. Richard Flohill, I will never get the Richard Flohill award for I was out all night and you weren't. Award. I want whatever he's drinking. I want to know what he's drinking, what he's eating. You know, at 91, this guy's got the Fountain of Youth happening.

You know, crazy man. That's some crazy stuff. I know. I think the point of David's achievement was that any business, be it music or plumbing or construction, needs a kind of communications method so that everybody knows they're on the same page, that they know what's going on in the business with no BS, just the real thing and the facts. And David did that and helped make the industry aware of what was going on all at the same time, every week with FYI and with the record. the record, and that was his gig. He provided the glue that kept the business together. There were lots of other people who made great contributions, but he was the person who did the... hang on, somebody... he was the person who did the joining of it all together. Excellent. He added legitimacy, Richard, to your point, to all the work he did.

And he made the business legitimate. It wasn't a rumor. It wasn't some flash thing. It was true. And as they say in Australia, fair dinkum, which is fair and true. Fair dinkum is a great way to describe what he did. A little touch on that. The other point I'd make is that he had this, some would say, warped sense of humor. Occasionally he was crass. Occasionally he was, he would say silly things.

Occasionally he'd get called out for it. But it was just David and he was a warm-hearted, friendly, kind person. And his personal character made the product of his work be successful. And I don't think he ever got rich doing this, but he certainly made a contribution that makes the music business and in a wider term the entertainment business, useful and good and kind and generous and efficient and he understood the talent that was around and continues to emerge despite the difficulties of being a musician. These days are absolutely frightening. Um, uh, but he chronicled it with love and care and most importantly, accuracy. Yeah.

He did something he loved. I mean, all of us, I mean, you know, I know that of you, Richard Flowhill, Bill King, certainly, you know, a know that of you, Richard Flohill, Bill King, certainly, you know, a real life working musician and journalist and radio guy. I think we all love what we do and but no more than David Ferrell. David just loved getting up every day and doing what he did and I think that that went all through his work and you were attracted to that. If you had any legitimacy about who you were were you know you you enjoyed talking to David

Farrell because he loved what he did i think also David here's uh Dave is that i i know one of his great regrets and it was the fact that he he had uh called me maybe a a month before his passing and all of a sudden in a frenzy, he wanted to get his writings together. And he wanted to get a book together, something that he could put together and say, this has been me. And I knew that, I knew how to find a link to his writing from FYI, because you could find it online, you could put together some articles. But he wanted to be able to tell the early stories

with a record and the other stuff. And that writing is, I think that's in libraries now, or it's documented in the record, in the printed issues, and would have to be extracted. There was no time to get all together. He asked me, see how much you could find. And I did online try to find stuff as such. But then it also brought to mind that, you know, you can't put a, you can't put a money price on this. You can't put a dollar on this.

You can't put a dollar on writing. I was just reading an article yesterday and it said that 50% of all the books published in 2024 sold less than 12 copies. 90% sold less than a thousand copies. So the writing thing has diminished as far as people's reading, sitting down and reading books and stuff, but they still read online. So those articles that that David wrote, I understand that he understood that transitions online would be the place that would you could get go back and review what he had did. And all of a sudden, it was just it was it was getting too late to get all that together. So it's like, it's always like a it's always like a warning that

So it's like it's always like a It's always like a warning that To preserve this it's best that you move now. It's best that you act in the moment and don't You know don't wait and I think that was the one thing that he regretted that and I used to bug him all the time I'd say to him I said you're a better writer than me. You can really write guy I said, so why don't you sit down and just write the book and write it. Yeah. You know, it just takes time. This is why I like Toronto Mic.

I mean, look, Mike's got over 1500 episodes from people. You do it now. You know, and, and, and, and, you know, audio books are very big. Audio books are huge. And this is sort of like, it's a podcast. It's an audio reconciliation of what David

was all about. And I think that people, you know, you hear, if you were to hear David voice right now interacting with all of us, you would hear a guy who was vibrant, alive, and you know, give as good as he would get. I mean, he was just an animated kind of guy. And I think hearing someone's voice really tells you a lot about the person, but it also brings those stories alive. And I think that that's what I will miss is hearing David's voice on a, on a Monday

morning, say, Charles, what do you got for me today? You know, and that kind of stuff you miss, but you know, you're right, Bill. He would say, he would say to you, he would not criticize you. He would not run you down. He would make you feel good about yourself. Yeah. Right. That's, that takes, that's a special skill to come from

somebody. You know, so that he always made me feel good. I mean, there were times when I was like, terrified of him, because I'd write something and go, I ain't got time to correct this. Yep. And I understood that. And so that was just like a message, go back and fix this yourself. And then I go back and fix the thing and break it back and he goes, hey, Ree's great. But I mean, but it was always just forward thinking and such. I think Richard Fogel will relate to this remark and that is he absolutely knew how

to drive you forward. He wouldn't let you be lazy about your business and about the way it should be laid out and chronicled. And I love that, you know, he pushed me to, to write better and really get it straight and organized me in such a way. And I think he gave that gift to all of us. And I think if young students coming up in this

business who want to chronicle this incredible, crazy world we have right now, a very layered media, you know, AI, throw that into the equation as well. We have so many things coming at us and, you know, to be able to chronicle all of that and make sense of that and how to use all of that, because these are all new tools we can use. I'm using AI tools now.

I don't like anything artificial intelligence. I figured that was an oxymoron, artificial intelligence. We can understand that that is a way to add, you know, to our research. I often use AI for research. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yep, it really is. So you can't poo-poo something unless you really know what you're talking about and what it can do for you and really add to the depth and breadth of what you do. And David, I think, understood that completely. And plus, the other thing I just want to say on that is that with these tools that we have

now, the tools can't be your voice. Your voice is your voice. The tools can make corrections, the tools can get you information quicker than Google can now. And they can give you specifically what you need to know, but you still have to write it. And you still have to write it in your own voice or you're just, it's easy to read. I always tell the people, I said, you can put, make me write like Hemingway,

make me write like Thomas Wolf, make me write like, all right, then you sound like you were born and you're writing in 1935. So you are a person of this time. So you have to reflect that in your writing. There's a thing called context in journalism that I really respect. And David had the ability to context things and pull them all together in a way that was believable and in an order that made sense. And that's a real skill and and a real art and you're right. I mean,

AI for research, yes, but the context, you got to use your own instincts and abilities, I think. Yeah, got to have your voice. David had his voice, you have your voice, Richard has his voice. We have our voices and that's the most important thing is saying with Mike, you know, so. Yep. Well, quite literally, I have your voices because I have a... I'm recording. and say with Mike, you know, so. Well, quite literally, I have your voices because I have a recording, a deep dive of Richard Flow Hill in the basement. Richard's been down here. And of course, Bill King's been down here.

You biked over here. I'll never forget that. And Dave Charles, you've been been over a couple of times, but I want to give kudos to you, Dave Charles, because you recognized years ago, I suppose, that David Farrell, I should have his voice and we should do a deep dive episode. And you took a very good run at that. And I just want to say, uh, thanks for trying to make that happen. You're welcome.

I mean, I'm so disappointed in one sense, we didn't get to capture David, the real David, but I think the three of us had a chance to reflect on what we know of David. And hopefully that, that captures the essence of the man and his work. Can I do a couple of bio nuggets and then we'll talk about that. three of us had a chance to reflect on what we know of David and hopefully that, that captures the essence of the man and his work.

Can I do a couple of bio nuggets and then we'll wrap up in reverse chronological order, talking about his, uh, his legacy. So we'll close with you, Richard, but just so I understand, so what causes the end of the record? So I know in 2008, FYI music news launches, but what ends the record? I think it's money in advertising.

Richard, do you know? Well, I think the major record companies were diminishing in numbers, and they were his major advertisers. And as the record, as the major record companies kind of contracted and the independent record companies haven't, with some exceptions, haven't really got their shit together yet. That and the fact that print as it, and as people like David and I, with, you know, printer's ink in our veins, we, people don't read anymore except online.

And I think he understood that probably before many others did. And he moved from a print publication, and I don't have a single copy of the record. I do have copies of all the reviews I wrote, but I don't have any copies of the way the magazine chronicle the day to day, week to week, year to year progress and changes that were going on. The record folded because print folded.

When you buy a newspaper, Iought the Globe and Mail last week On the Saturday is nine bucks Help Well, well, yeah times have certainly changed a constant evolution here but in 2008 David Farrell launched he founds FYI music news That's where we you know, we could read, you know, Dave Charles and Bill King writing for FYI music news that's where we you know we could read you know Dave Charles and Bill King writing for FYI music news but I'm struck by the fact that David was he worked well he joined Billboard as a music editor in

1977 so before the record he's he's music editor at Billboard. And then just about a year and so go 2023, FYI music news is basically merges or becomes a part of Billboard Canada. So maybe Bill and Dave speak to that decision. Like I'm just wondering where that decision came from to take FYI music news and fold it into Billboard Canada. Okay, a couple things. I'm just gonna follow up on the first thing. Sure, yeah, sure. About the, that in 2006 we folded up

the Jazz Report magazine after eight years. And Richard's right, it was advertising. Because when we started the magazine, we had 12 labels. So you had Island, you had all these other small labels, right? Then they get bought up by another label, the major labels started buying those labels up and then swallow them. And then, okay, so you don't have 12 to go to for advertising. And then you're down to six. Then you're down to four and then you're down to two. Then you don't have a magazine.

Right. Okay? And we got out the same thing knowing that that was coming. But we didn't really see the online being that early. We just knew that we would carry a lot of debt. I think with both Billboard and our conversations over that was the fact that Billboard had an enormous outreach. I think David had a subscriber list of six to 8,000,

and then Billboard had this massive reach in Canada, right? And set up. And then the fact that you could insert FYI and Billboard and then reach that audience that Billboard had already established was a plus for him. And plus, also Gary Slate wasn't going to finance it anymore. And it became, you know, it was Billboard's to look after themselves. And you know, the same problems that Billboard that, that you had to FYI, you have,

you have the same issues, but the security at FYI was knowing that it was funded. The security at FYI was knowing that it was funded. Billboard, I think they have the issues of, you know, we've got to pay writers and it's still a problem because you don't have the advertising as such. So, but you have the audience. So I think it was a balance. I don't think there was a whole lot of money exchanged there or whatever, but the articles that we did, the interviews

and everything, they're still there, but they come with a go board label. So I think that's just it. Okay, very, very good. Go ahead, Richard. I was going to say one sort of thing that I've been following is the online platform called Substack, with which you can upload your writing. And sometimes people actually pay for it. Not very much, but I've been writing a series called Stories from the Edge of Music I've been writing a series called Stories from the Edge of Music for a year and a half, nearly two years now, and it's surprising the readership it gets.

And I think that this is a way to keep stories alive. And I'm surprised, Bill, that you haven't gotten on to this platform yet because you would make a terrific contribution. You know I've looked at it Richard and I follow Ted Goya and Ted Goya has been this outstanding God writer, jazz and everything and man is he fantastic. I guess he wouldn't write so much. But you know something the guy's got 200,000 followers and it's $50 a year.

Figure that out. He never made that kind of money as a writer. And I was looking at Heather Cox Richardson who does a lot of politics and historians history stuff. She has 2.2 million followers and subscribers on that and they were asking her yesterday well where do you live she goes in Maine in a fishing village and they go but why are you there she goes my husband's a fisherman I can't leave him here she said I could write this stuff from home because I know my stuff so I understand it but you know

something sometimes it's just that you got a lot of other things on the plate. You can only do so much at a time, but I really applaud Substack. The writing, you write what you got to write. You write from the heart, you write what you write, and nobody tells you what to write. And I think it's a wave of the future. You know, you just, it's just, can I afford all of this, but it's still better than, it's still better than legacy media truly which is a dying writing a book which

Less than 2,000 people will buy or read Yeah, absolutely But what what what Ted Goya did was when he started on sub stack he was writing a new book and he would post chapters as he wrote them. And that was he was writing on the beginnings of music, the sounds and the origins of music and he started writing his book I don't know if he finished it but he would throw up a chapter in a week another chapter every two days and then all of a sudden you were sucked in and then I paid

my $50. But you know something the fact is he's like a one-off that he has such a broad range of knowledge and stuff, and he's a Stanford graduate and he's into science and technology, so he can write about a lot of things and you kind of don't argue with him, you know, because he's kind of like, Oh, I agree with that. So David Farrell, a man I never met, much, much, much respect for David Farrell and his legacy. So we're gonna hear from all three of you before we close this out, but I just want to thank you, especially Richard Yeah, figure that out. My hero, my hero. My goodness. He invented grassroots, by the way. That's Richard. Richard's in grassroots.

He's done everything me and Dave Charles wouldn't do. That's right. Everything. Me and the cat are in bed by eight o'clock at night, right? That's when his day starts. Bill and Dave, do you two gentlemen, you don't eat vegetables, do you? Oh, never. Oh, of course we do. Well, that's your mistake. Richard figured this out. Go ahead. No vegetables, right, Richard?

No, I, well, I was semi-educated in a boarding school in England for unwanted children. And the Brits are not going to make vegetables in good times. But during the war, in an institution, I got my first newspaper job and I was 16. And I told my parents, that's it, I'm never going to eat vegetables again. And I have. And it was working for you. So I'm taking notes over here It's working. So I'm gonna go around the horn. What's what is he eating? What what I can't even imagine what you possibly is it like porridge and and and shank or I Can't even imagine what you'd be eating meat pies Well I can't even imagine what you'd be eating. Meat pies? Well, meat, cheese, bread, pasta, and Indian food. There it is. There it is. There's the key.

Richard's not going to write any more books, but go ahead, Richard. Wrap out. Who needs it? Take care. Well, Richard, hold on. Hold on. We're going around the horn before you before you hang up on us. Don't hang up yet because we're going to close with you. So here's the deal, Bill, Dave, Richard. Basically we're going to go around the horn starting with you, Bill, then you, Dave, and then you, Richard, and you can take 20 seconds to tell us of what you're going to miss about your friend David Farrell. You can spend 20 minutes. There's no time limit here. One by one. Final remarks about your friend and colleague, former colleague David Farrell. Talk to us,

Bill King. I think I'll miss the phone calls when I'm on my bike. And I pull over to the curb and I say, David, can I get back to you? Oh, okay, I just want to ask you this. And I said, but can I just get back to you? Okay, and then going home and taking time to have the conversation. And they're always good conversations. They're always upbeat. Rarely was there a negative one.

It was just basically something very funny that happened or can you do that? Or, you know, and I also like the fact that he gave me sort of the courage to ask anybody anything. So the fact he would say to me, can you talk to so and so? And I would go, sure, I'll call them. They'd be some country artists. They have no clue who they are. Or can you talk to this guy? Can you call Jay Robert Woods? I went, okay. Can you call Randy Lennox? Yeah, you know, so these are people that I normally wouldn't approach and stuff

and I went, just fearless. He just made me totally fearless. Right now I'll just talk to anyone, so I think that maybe it was because he didn't want to make those calls. He transferred the fear. Oh yeah, can you go to him? I said, sure. Why not build call up Neil Young? I need to ask him. Oh, I would. I would call him.

Yeah, I would. I mean, I can't even think. I love that tip. He got there from David Farrell, which is that there's no caste system and class system here. It's just Neil Young, Dave Charles, you know, to me these are equal human beings of flesh and blood and you know you can have a conversation and ask the same questions about. And it would be you would call somebody up with

such magnitude and they go so what are you gonna ask and I'd say well I haven't decided yet. Right. So that's where the conversation would start. You'll find out when I ask you. Okay, so Bill, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you so much, man. See you on the bike trails. You know, Dave Charles, please tell us what you'll, what you'll miss and give us some final remarks about your friend and colleague.

Let me give you my quote about David and his life and his legacy. It would be, do what you love, love what you do. That's it in a nutshell. I can't add to that. Plus knowing how to make an egg salad sandwich, you know? You chop the egg, you don't smash the egg. That's him in a nutshell. He is a lovely human being. He wants you to pay it forward to someone you don't know, not someone you know. You You know this speaks volumes about his last thoughts and wishes that we would all do that And David has got a great heart a great energy you know music was obviously his drug of choice and we love him for that and he chronicled that and

I just think to anybody who listens to this show and wants to try something and have the courage that David did that Richard has had in his career and Bill has in his day-to-day career, you gotta have the courage to get out there and just bloody do it and that's David Farrell. Yeah. Richard, final words belong to you my friend. I don't know what I can add to what Bill and David have expressed so eloquently. I will miss, I do miss the phone calls, the occasional get togethers in recent years when he would come back to Toronto and we'd hang out at some strange little restaurants in Cabbage Town. I miss his kindness, I miss his laughter and I just miss the guy who did his job totally professionally and accurately and well and helped unite a

sometimes fractured crazy business. And that brings us to the end of our 1,608th show. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. I'm on bluesky at torontomike.com there. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Minaris, and Redlee Funeral Home. See you all next week! So So So So I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star

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