Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Richard Underhill from The Shuffle Demons: Toronto Mike'd #1276

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

In this 1276th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Richard Underhill of The Shuffle Demons about the band, Spadina Bus, his mayoral campaign and Toronto's jazz scene. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, the Yes We Are Open podcast from Moneris, The Moment Lab, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 1276 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Season 4 of Yes We Are Open. The award-winning podcast from Moneris.

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and Redleaf Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto Mike debut is Richard Underhill. Welcome, Richard. Thank you. Thank you. Toronto Mike, this is fun. It's happening, man.

It is happening through a Twitter hookup. Well, I actually took that note, so I guess we can thank T. Griff for this. I did, when T. Griff said, hey, Mike, have you ever had Richard Underhill on? And I said, no! He said, well, you should. And then you and I chatted, and you agreed to come on,

and then T. Griff wrote, I hope this comes together. I want to hear Rich's tales of the band, that's the Shuffle Demons demons by the way uh and all who have seen a demon all who have been a demon his solo and other jazz excursions his reflections on the toronto jazz scene on the city of toronto in general and on the kensington market specifically make it so soon so t griff this is for you. Man, okay, we got a lot to cover. A lot of instructions. Hey, let's crack open a cold

can of fresh GLB. So, what do you got there? A lager? I do have a lager. Thank you, Great Lakes. Richard's going to crack it right on the mic. A premium lager. Let's do this. See how my mic cracking skills are. Here we go. Okay, now let me show you how a professional does it.

Let me see, because my hand was kind of blocking it. Oh, listen. That is like beer ad quality. I was at, it is beer. I was at, where was I? Taste of Little Italy on college yesterday. Oh, yes, yes, indeed. And Great Lakes, they had a booth there,

but delicious fresh craft beer there. But then I saw that Palma Pasta had a booth. They had a meatball sub there. It was delicious. Do you enjoy Italian food, Richard? Well, it turns out that Underhill doesn't sound like an Italian name, but my mom's side is from Sicily. So, yes, indeed, I do love Italian cooking.

I've been to Sicily three times and Italy a bunch of times. Can you be made or no, you have to be pure Sicilian to get made? I think so, yeah. I know when The Sopranos came out, you know, I was kind of joking about it with my uncles and they weren't happy. Like they really, they didn't like it because, you know, they weren't that type. But there was an issue, actually. Like my grandfather's family, their land was being kind of stolen

by my grandmother's family wow so yeah and something there was some issue anyway hatfields and mccoys or whatever something going on yeah and so we he left in 1913 with a handful of romano beans and uh came to montreal and we in the, we still grow the beans from those beans. Like, we still propagate the most of them. Yeah, yeah. That's an amazing story. I know. It's so cool, isn't it?

I could shut this down right now, and I would love the episode. Okay, but Palma Pasta does have a large lasagna for you. It's frozen in my freezer right now. That's for you, Richard. Oh, my God. That's fantastic. Thank you so much. Excellent.

Rush order. I mean, when I told Anthony Petrucci from Palma Pasta that the guy from the Shuffle Demons was coming over, he said, which guy? And he had a long list there. Really? Richard Underhill. And then he's like, I'm sending over some lasagna

for this gentleman. Oh my God, that is so great. Fantastic. Well, fantastic to have you here. So, I mean, there's so much i want to cover with you but uh like when i think about you know richard underhill i think of the shuffle demons and i think of spadina bus so let's go back like let's go back maybe give me a little like shuffle demons origin story like who were you pre demon and what the hell for the younger

folk listening what the hell is a shuffle demon let listening, what the hell is a shuffle demon? Let's educate the people. This is a Toronto podcast. Let's do it. So I was a guy from Salmon Arm, BC, who wanted to come to the big city and make his fame and fortune. So I went, well, you know, fame anyway. So I don't know, something. So I signed up to York University, which I thought, you know, not having the internet in 82, I sort of thought, oh, that'll be downtown. It'll be great. I'll be downtown it'll be

great i'll be downtown toronto yeah oops i was wrong so but i didn't stay on still paying the ass to get there well it depends where you live well wait there's a subway all the way there yeah i know i know but it's my son goes to york and it's a long uh a long trip for him on the subway yeah well so i you know i didn't get into residence, which I think is better, so that I eventually ran into this guy on the bus up there who had like a fancy sax case. And I was kind of jealous of him. I didn't like that guy. He was too fancy.

But anyway, we ended up sharing a locker. That was Mike Murley, one of the preeminent jazz sax players in Canada. Wow. Yeah. And so he had an opening in his house. So in November, I moved in. Now, the opening in his house was a little

back porch on the back of a house on roxton road and to keep the beer cold for the the the welcome to me uh so long to the last roommate party they had it in my room so that's the kind of room it was but anyway it was amazing house there was brigham phillips amazing trumpet player who's done so many things charlie cooley incredible an incredible drummer, and Mike Murley, all living in that house. So it was the Rockston Road, the home of jazz. Wow. Yeah. So we used to do our thing, and I was this sort of wild free jazz guy,

and I would go out and busk on the street every weekend to try and make rent, and Mike Murley would go and do these kind of weddings that he didn't really like, and he had to play music he didn't, you know, because he was a bit of a, he liked jazz, and he didn't want to play all these kind of pop hits or whatever. And we'd come to play music. He didn't, you know, cause he was a bit of a, he liked jazz. He didn't want to play all these kind of pop hits or whatever. And we'd come home and he'd have his a hundred bucks in the wedding. And I'd have a sack of change that equaled a hundred bucks. Wow.

And he'd go, wow, man, I should try that. So we went out one day, we tried it. We, you know,

we made some money and he had fun. And then the next time we went out, he, he was kind of the linchpin here. He invited stitch Winston, our amazing drummer and Dave Parker, who was his best friend from Nova Scotia, he was kind of the linchpin here. He invited Stitch Winston, our amazing drummer, and Dave Parker, who was his best friend from Nova Scotia, who was trying to make it as a jazz person here,

but not going to school. And that first day, we just gelled, and everything happened. And then, you know, things happened, things happened. People asked us what our name was, and I'd just written this kind of crazy tune from my York University big band assignment called The Shuffle Monster monster so we became the shuffle demons and uh the rest you know it just went from there where were your favorite busking

spots like specifically yeah well that we we kind of did our first thing at young and bluer and then the eaton center those were kind of our two big big spots i remember like in about 85 in the in front of the eaton center in the first day of spring, you know, and it just, the most incredible scenes, you know, like people taking their clothes off and, you know, just people doing crazy stuff. So it was really fun. Well, that would be your high traffic spot there

at Young and Dundas there. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So there's so many ways to approach this episode. So firstly, I order you to drop as many names as you can along the way. Like we're literally like recording this audio history of the city of Toronto. How's the beer, by the way? Oh, it's great.

Yeah, absolutely good. Wonderful. I cracked open an IPA. I actually, periodically I run out of beer, believe it or not. And I'm going to have to get myself to Great Lakes Brewery today to fill up on beer. And delicious beer, by the way, available across the province in LCBOs and elsewhere. Delicious Fresh Craft Beer. And they've been great partners of the program.

Okay, so what if I just go for it, man? Let me kick out this jam because I think this is when people, when you say shuffle demons, especially if you're Gen X like me, this is the song that bounces around your head. Let me kick out this jam. When you say shuffle demons, especially if you're Gen X like me, this is the song that bounces around your head. Let's play a bit of it. Then I'll bring it down. Tell me everything. Richard, bury me in the information.

I'm ready. Here we go. Thank you. ДИНАМИЧНАЯ МУЗЫКА Thank you. Right on the bus What's for Dyna Bus? Ain't no school bus Ain't no streetcar Ain't no subway car What's for Dyna Bus? I want confirmation on my information On my transportation What's for Dyna Station?

She wants confirmation on his information On his transportation What's for Dyna Station? She wants confirmation on my information On my transportation Transcription by CastingWords York you run and the oxygen trolley It's just a big folly, well I don't give a damn About the Bathurst tram, but I'll make a fuss About the Dinobus, cause I'm 77B 77B On the TTC Yeah, 77B

On the TTC Well, 77A I guess it'll be okay But I want 77B 77B Hey, check it out, I went down to the station I didn't scream or fuss I didn't have lots of patience

Waiting for that bus Thugged deep down in my pockets To try and find some coin But much to my chagrin All I found was my groin Hey! B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B- I was going to play like 45 seconds, but actually, I was like, no, let it roll, because it's a quintessential Toronto song. Are you aware of that, Richard?

Yeah. You know what? I am. And new generations keep getting introduced to it and are incredulous at it, that it was kind of the quasi-hit that it was. But you just ended just after the problematic lyric. You see, we were... The groin? Yeah, the groin.

There's so many places to start. First of all, let me say, let me confess on air that... Take your time, by the way. I got all day. Go take your time. It's important. I didn't actually write Spadina Bus. I wrote parts of it, and I have this kind of rap in the middle that talks about the Bathurst tram,

the dissing of the other potential TTC routes. That was my sort of contribution. Because the LRT is not for you. Yeah, and then in the end, when I ran for mayor, well, of course, Transit City and the LRT, well, I did prefer that. But anyway, so people change. But Dave Parker, who really is the guy who came up with the song, he was living on Spadina.

There was always a bus there. We used to go down and play the Horseshoe Tavern in the afternoons, and he was always waiting for that Spadina bus. So he's the guy. He's the brilliant guy who came up with it. In a way, saying that there's Rocket 88. People always write songs about transportation. Well, he's going to, instead of a hot car, he'll write one about a bus. And also putting the name of the town,

you know, talking about a town is also a real kind of way to get people to like your song. Well, that's it. I mean, it's like I said, quintessential Toronto song because it's unabashedly Toronto. Like, I don't know how,

I only know how it plays for me, a guy who was born and raised in the city of Toronto, but, you know, I don't know how it would play in like Frankfurt when they hear about this Spadina bus. Who knows?

But who cares? It's ours. I love it. Yeah, they're confused, but in Italy they call it Spadina, but it's catchy, it's fun, they love it. But back to that problematic lyric. So we were doing the Eaton Center

and City TV came out and shot one of the City TV Everywhere's with beautiful Mark saying, you know, Mark talking about it. The following program contains adult themes, nudity, and coarse language. Viewer and parental discretion is advised. There he is, the voice. But he got, they heard it wrong, so they called us the Shuffle Devils. Anyway, that was the first thing.

But so I was like, hey, that's great. We've got this promo thing. I'd love to get that tape so I could send it to people and go, hey, we're kind of famous. Let's book us or whatever. Whatever one did back then. So I went in and I met this guy at the promotions department called John Gunn. And John was like, oh, man, we love you guys.

You're so fun. It's so fun. And, you know, we're kind of this kind of feel like we're a band in the promotion department they were this little kind of funky organization and they were like we like you know we we you guys want to do something well we'd love to make a video so they helped us make the first video so it was kind of an in right because they you know much music was down the hall and all that stuff but they wanted to do a project and and we you know, were there. So they helped us make the video.

But one of the things was before we were submitting to actually rent a TTC bus, we edited out the word groin, you know, we edited out Stitch's lyrics there. John, you know, John thought that was a better idea to give us more chance. Didn't matter.

The TTC didn't want to give us a bus, even rent it to us because we implied that people were waiting. You know, I didn't have much patience waiting for that bus. There were certain things. Oh, I see. Yeah, they're overthinking it as usual. Yeah, there were some implications. So anyway, we're totally.

But I mean, the whole nature of a bus is whether you wait two minutes or 20 minutes, you've got to wait for the bus. At some point. Unless you're like. You've got to wait a little bit. You're that lucky guy who runs and catches it. You you get a good driver there but yeah but anyway in the end it worked out better because the bus drivers kind of saw that we were doing it and they were totally into it and they were and we just did it gorilla style and we never got on the bus which was actually kind of more fun in a way we all we were talking about was well waiting for it was going to

come so yeah that was that was a trip. But those guys were great, and they really kind of launched our career there and really helped us out. So we're forever grateful to John Grunton, the promotions department at City TV everywhere. Yeah, that era of the Moses empire, the Chum empire there with much music and City TV. I've got such nostalgia for that era because it just seemed to be cool.

It just felt like there was no budget, but with creativity and just cool cats giving a little power, giving the opportunity to do something, you get some real cool stuff coming out of 299 Queen Street there. Absolutely, yeah. No, it was great.

It was pushing the envelope in the right way and opening up a lot of doors for people. and so what the hell happened richard because i know what's going on there now and i don't really know what's going on there no well you know you get tired you you you move on you you know things change whatever he sold it so what are you gonna do but it's funny because you mentioned they called you the uh the shuffle devils at first and then i remember even like if you were watching, you know, Speaker's Corner. Right. They had those two guys, the devil's advocates.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The devil's advocates. These are all like looking back, it's like, oh, yeah, that was a thing. That was a cool thing. Like they just became a thing. I don't know. I guess they would do that on Instagram now or whatever.

Right. Yeah, I guess so. Except the difference is I won't see it on Instagram where I was tuning in. Right, I know. On weekends. Yeah, it was sort of a, there was more, I guess it's similar with Instagram or whatever, there was kind of a collective consciousness

about what you watched that weekend or whatever. It was a little bit more time-specific maybe. I don't know. It's hard to pin it down. Well, it's just such a smaller media landscape. I mean, you can't compare now. Pre-internet, it was like, yeah, you know, what else were you going to watch?

So Commander Tom just died. Oh, yeah, yeah, I know. And I was sitting with Ed Conroy, better known as Retro Ontario, and PJ Fresh Phil. So we were, yeah, these are guys, especially Ed, who would appreciate Spadina Bus. Oh, Ed has been very supportive, yes,

with his account. You're our kind of people here, so okay. But we were talking about Commander Tom and how on a Sunday morning, people our age, and if you're a little older, you have a different experience of Commander Tom, but our age, there was no cartoons on Sunday morning. There was no station to go to.

It was Commander Tom or GTFO. This was your option unless you wanted to watch religious programming or news programming. You watched Commander Tom and if that meant Tom and Davey that's what you watched. Come on Davey. That's what we watched but that's what we had.

It was such a different universe. We all watched Commander Tom. In Sam and I in BC we watched Atlanta Professional Wrestling. That's what we got. That sounds better than Commander Tom. In Samanar and BC, we watched Atlanta Professional Wrestling. That's what we got. That sounds better than Commander Tom. What's going on? You know, I have an Andre the Giant mug over here

because I did love when WWF in the mid-80s was a big deal to me. Well, see, this was, yeah, was it 70s, I guess? There was this guy called Gordon Soley from Atlanta Professional Wrestling, and he was like, the sheepherders have been working out assiduously together this week. And I was like, what does assiduous? Like we actually learned from this guy. And that's a big word.

He was hilarious. He was really good. But that's what we watched in small town BC. Well, I need to know these things. I might have another small town BC person on the program and I can blow their mind with these references. Oh, yes, yes. Keep dropping these names. Okay.

So Spadina Bus gets played on much music. Yeah. Like, what's that? You guys are like buskers, and that's some funky-ass shite right there. Yeah. And you're on the nation's music station. Exactly.

So we had done a record, and we'd actually found this really cool agency called Trick or Treat, and they'd booked us a little tour across Canada. So we went and played Expo 86 with our brand new record, and we did this tour back across Canada, and the first few dates weren't very much. We played a place in Winnipeg called Knockers, which was a strip club during the day.

So I went for a for sound check and there was this poor woman up there and it had you know tinsel on the stage like you know the like classic old-time thing right and then it was a jazz club at night so that was yeah that was funny um but then it you know what once by the time we hit thunder bay it had been played and boom we were kind of happening like people had yeah, people were kind of noticing us. And so that, you know, with the help of trick or treat, we started playing colleges and universities. We started playing jazz festivals.

You know, we really started to, it really had quite a bumper few years there. Well, what box would you put Shuffle Demons in? Because of course there's that jazzy element, but it's more than that, right? There's a bit of a, like almost, almost a, I won't call it ska, but there seems to be something, like, how would you describe

Shuffle Demons? Well, that's the thing. That's the eternal question for the band. We don't know. I mean, but you're right, it has that sort of ska energy. It's got that... It's because there's a bunch of you, and there's bra... It just, you know, it just feels like it should have... Doing antics, you know, moving around. So it's got that ska feel. We used to call it bop

rap, which was, you know, sort of the way. Yeah, sure. There's rap in there too, of course. I think Derek Andrews came up with that one. He was a wonderful agent and person of culture. Booked tons and tons of things. Helped us out as well. So that's how we called it.

But yeah, that's the one thing why we really never got a major record deal or whatever. Like we could have probably because we were almost popular enough, but they just didn't get it. They didn't know what to do with it. And what can you do? They like you to fit into these boxes. Yeah, especially back then, I think. Now it's a little, there's not that many boxes.

They probably said, can you be more Huey Lewis in the news? Right, right. Get some guitar. I remember there was a guy in Italy who was going to make us famous, and he was like, but we need to add the computore musicale to it. So we were like, yeah, no, we were quite the purists. Well, my last guest on this very program

dropped by Friday to kick out the jams was Blair Packham from The Jitters, and I've long kidded with Blair about the fact that The Jitters were trying to be Huey Lewisis in the news but i actually dig it a little deeper and turn that knife because i say that the jitters were uh trying to be uh the uh what's the west coast band uh too bad that you're not as smart as you thought you were. You're killing me. That's okay.

You need to figure this out. Too bad. Doug and the Slugs. Where's Doug Bennett and the Slugs? I know these names. But of course, every day I think of Doug and the Slugs. Where's that name when you need it, right? But Doug and the Slugs is sort of like,

that's an answer to Hewlett's and News, and the Jitters are an answer to Doug and the Slugs. So it could be worse for you is what I'm telling you. Oh, okay. Yeah, good. Yeah. No, it hasn't been bad at all. How well do you know Blair?

Oh, we've just been on the scene together for whatever. Chip's passing in the night, really, but I kind of know him. I put it that way. Hopefully he doesn't say, oh, man, he's my best friend. What do you mean? He's going to be hurt. We were best friends, Richard. What the heck happened?

I'm sorry. So as we learn the story of the Shuffle Demons, I know, what was the initial, was it T. Griff here? I'm going back to that initial question. Because he does, and I'm hoping you will, like when you start in the mid-80s there with the Shuffle Demons, what is Toronto's jazz scene like? Like take us back to the mid-80s.

Right. It was a lot of Georgia Spaghetti House and those kind of places that was a pretty like incredibly high quality of music played by really incredible virtuosic players. But other than like people like Claude Ranger and people like that, there didn't seem to be a lot of envelope pushing going on. There was a great group called Time Warp,

which is still around. Al Henderson and Barry Elms were the main protagonists of that band, and they were profs at York, or at least Al was. And Al sort of took a chance on me because I was this wild man and they were like, I don't think he fits in. And they were like, no, I'll take him. I'll take him to my shop and we'll learn

Mingus and stuff like that and he'll be fine. He'll actually fit in well. He'll be good for it. So big thanks to Al Henderson. But they had a band called Time Warp and they were pushing the envelope and a few other bands. But that's the thing we kind of, you know, know i kind of grown up

as looking at jazz from afar looking at john coltrane and all those artists and looking at jazz as sort of uh it was a at the time an expression of civil rights it was an expression it was just this you know and especially as a teenager it was a wild expression and and an expression of growing emerging who you are and and the expression of growing, emerging, who you are. And the expression part was way more important than the economic part and the sort of even fitting in with sort of the real sort of traditional combines of what the music was, you know, the really refined kind of Bill Evans, Paul Desmond, whatever sort of way that music was played.

So we were kind of a bit of a revolt against that. And then we were adding these popular elements in because rap was in the air and we were on the street and we were trying to communicate and we were adding TV themes and just stuff that we knew. So we were kind of the enfant terrible of the jazz world at the time because the purists didn't really like us. And the people who were kind of didn't know what jazz was actually did kind of like us.

And in the end, the purists were like, well, they're bringing people to the festival. Maybe they're okay. And I'm trying to think like around that 86 and some years beyond, but I'm trying to think. So James B. was he in the look people at this time? Yeah, absolutely. The B people, the look people.

Right. Yeah, we were very sort of parallel. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think James Bee is famous? Yeah. I'm agreeing with you. It's a recurring question on the program,

is James Bee famous? It's more of a philosophical question than anything because, of course, James Bee is famous. It's funny. Blair just came back. It's all about Blair Packham today, folks. But Blair came back from Newfoundland, and he told me he bumped into James B in the airport.

And then Blair, who claims to be a big fan of this program, that claims to listen to many Toronto Mic episodes, he sends me a text, and he says, have you ever had James B on the program? I actually almost just deleted him from the server. Did he come on five times or something? He's been on multiple times, but he's an FOTM,

which means Friend of Toronto Mike. Richard, you're now an FOTM, Friend of Toronto Mike. Thank you. I'm glad to be. Yeah, like James B., of course he's been on. We've had many conversations, and the fact Blair wasn't sure hurt my feelings. So his feelings are hurt by what you said about him. My feelings are hurt by what you said about him.

My feelings are hurt by what Blair said about the Look people. Maybe some humor will help with these hurt feelings. I just want to say that we were, so we ended up doing a double bill with the Look people and the Shuffle Demons in the 80s, 90s, maybe 90s in Calgary. And James was like, oh, can we come on for Spadina Bus? Sure. You know, like we always invite people up for Spadina Bus. It's the big thing. And so we go for Spadina Bus.

And James B's drummer, who I love to bits and play with all the time, is great Bob Scott. He's the absolute wild man, but fantastic drummer, just really, really great drummer. Sometimes, especially back in the day, it got a little bit hidden by the antics. So Bob comes up to do the Spadina bus thing. Oh, there they are, in a diaper.

Or something like that, like a big diaper thing. And then when we start doing our antics and walking around, he starts stage diving and the diaper falls off. So he's basically stage diving naked into the crowd and so people afterwards like man you guys are not sure about that guy in the diaper though okay so that look people uh kevin hearn was in the look people absolutely today kevin hearn is in a little band called bare naked ladies like when do they show up in this scene, right? Because they're mid to late 80s, they show up in this very same

Buskerville, funky, what are we scene? I mean, I'm not 100% sure, but we were kind of the first, of the first people to do the busking thing and then to make a record and then to do an indie record. So we weren't signed and we would, I was taking them into A&A and Sam's,

and Gary Day at A&A was the buyer, and I would take the records in and all that stuff. So we were kind of on the forefront of that. Now they came along, and then they did it right. I mean, they did their own distribution, and they really figured out how to do it. So they kind of took it to the next level. I think Stephen's dad helped.

Like Stephen's dad started some kind of a distribution outlet. Yeah. So they had people who actually knew what they were doing rather than me. It was like, people used to say I used to run the band out of my back pocket and just do, I had like a, you know, a handful of receipts and whatever and try and figure it out.

And we were going to sort of maybe sign it over to somebody at some point. And I just, I just couldn't figure out like what the bout, like was I owed money? I don't know. I didn't know. Well, that's not the fun part of the art. But okay.

So in Barenaked Ladies, when the yellow tape arrives, this famously was the best selling independent release or something. And I don't know, Canadian music history. I don't know. I think so. Yeah. I feel like lowest of the low Shakespeare, my butt. I can't remember, Canadian music history? I don't know. I think so, yeah. I feel like lowest of the low Shakespeare My Butt. I can't remember the order, though,

because Shakespeare My Butt, I felt maybe that was the record that the Berenigal Ladies broke, maybe. Okay. But we're in the same time, because I know Shakespeare My Butt, I close every episode of Toronto Mike with a song from Shakespeare My Butt, so I should actually know this. I do know that album comes out in 1991. Ah.

And in my mind, yeah, this is before that, maybe. Absolutely, I think. I mean, so we mind, yeah, this is before that maybe. Absolutely, I think. I mean, so we were 86 when Spadina Bus came out. And so, you know,

86, 87, like we might have had that record for a while. You might have had that record. I mean, I just kept inflating the number in my,

you know, like we've sold a thousand, we sold two thousand, you know, eventually I said we sold 15,000 of that, like whether, I don't know if that's true.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, Richard. I kept inflating it, but a lot of product went through. Can we go back to the Spadina bus? Of course. I'll keep flashing the Spadina bus. The best part about Spadina bus is the walk around. So despite Great Bob stage diving naked, what we usually do is go through the crowd

and often take the crowd outside or go, you know, go through the university. Or at one point we went outside in Kingston and hailed a cab and got in it and left. And the audience was like, what? And then we just went around the block, which was fun. But the best one was at the town pump in Vancouver.

And we'd really done well that night. And it was about 2.10. And I was like, we've got one more tune. And the owner was like, what do you mean? It's like, after the last call, everyone's got to get out. What are you doing? I said, look, we'll take them all out. And I'll tell them to take all their stuff.

And we'll just clear your bar in five minutes, which is better than you having to try and get them out. So I said, look, everyone, we're playing some DinoBus. We're going to do the walk around. and then we're all going to leave, and you can't get back in. So take all your stuff. So we did it. We played some banana bus.

We went out. We were on the street. Two or 300 people following us. It's a crazy conga line. Absolutely insane. We go through the lamp lighter, which is a very notorious bar in Gastown, and guys were falling off their chairs. They were well into it, and they couldn't believe it we went through an italian restaurant that was

open at that time too and that was great and then we started to go around back of the club and there was a bouncer with a door open and so i put stop playing went run and so we all ran in through the back door and then he closed it and the fans like pounded on the door it was such a beatles moment it was that's amazing i'll never forget that oh yeah if any of those stories pop in your head just say mike we're going back well i just i had to you know yeah if i said that the other thing i want to say is that you know with regards to we sort of jumped to our album but in 85 we did a busking tour europe and that was another thing that really sort of defined us and it really helped our our profile in a way

because you know people love it when you go away and you're successful elsewhere so halfway through i found a typewriter somewhere in italy and wrote things you know like a kind of sarcastic press release like shuffle demons you know tried to play on the streets of Venice, but, you know, of course there's no street, you know, but it fell in the canal or whatever. I've been to Venice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you play in Venice?

No. I don't, you know, maybe I played my Sony Walkman, who knows, but. And, you know, Shuffle Demons, you know, got stuck in behind the Berlin Wall, which is actually true. There's a song Mike Murley wrote called East Berlin Angst, where we went over...

I'm going to play it. Okay. Do you want it now? Oh, yeah, if you want to. I don't... You know, the only rule is there are no rules. So let's get it on. Yeah, let's get it on.

Sounds a little funky there. I don't know. It got pixelated. We want to tell you a story about East Berlin and the mess that the demons found themselves in. Uh-huh. You know, people had one that's about going there. They said, they'll play in the street or they'll throw you in jail.

You get a one-day visa that expires at 12. So don't be late, demons, and take care of yourselves. Sounds so young. And so we headed to the east despite people's fears our first stop of course was to have a few beers but once that german group took its effect demon dave thought sleep was our best prospect you know we found a little park where dave could snooze to settle himself from all that booze but his nap didn't really last too long some kids saw our horns they wanted a song man skinned it were really being quite the pest. So we pulled out our horns, played a couple requests.

Well, in 10 seconds flat, the whole park came alive. People dancing and shaking off the communist job. I love songs that tell a story. Okay, this is the Shuffle Demons in East Berlin. That's fine. I just had a left jab dancing and shaking off that communist jive. That was funny. So, yeah, the part didn't really come a lot, but some people, yeah, the kids liked it.

Okay. Oh, classic Toronto diss. We don't have a good jazz club here. Okay, well, we have it, sort of. Well, we played a set and the crowd freaked out. There were plenty of people and beers about. You know, everybody loved it. It was really great, but one look at the clock.

We saw we were late. If it weren't a check with Charlie by 12 o'clock, our heads could be on the chopping block. So we ran towards the subway in quite a fright because we might have spent a year if we had stayed the night. There it is. Love it. A true story.

East Berlin angst. Okay. Love it. Yeah. Hit with the stories here. Great. In fact, I might go out of order. So what year is this from?

This would be, I think, 87. Yeah. This is funny, too. Oh, well, they really didn't seem very happy to me. And they were staring awfully funny at Rich's goatee. Man, we looked at each other. We thought we were doomed. When they took Rich away to another room, we said, enough of this jive. What's going down?

We want to get back to the west end of town. Were you shitting bricks when you're? Kind of. Yeah. A little shout out to Canada. It was funny. Were you shitting bricks when you're... Kind of, yeah. A little shout-out to Canada. It was funny. But yeah, we didn't know what was going to happen, like whether they were going to make us clean the whole place with toothbrushes or...

He locked the door. I didn't think I'd see the light of day no more. His search was thorough. We found a few beers, my plastic fish pen and my phony ears. Yeah, the boss hoax threatened to fine us a lot, but it only turned out to be a minor rot. You know, we weren't the thieves, but that's Siberian jazz, so we didn't give those power trippers any rest. Hey, all they were doing was putting on a show, and once they saw us sweating, they let us all go. Freedom!

We risked it, but we survived, and that's what it takes to keep the music alive. So if you ever travel to East Berlin, don't get yourself into the mess we were in. Be back before 12, don't push your luck Cause it's not the kind of place where you wanna be stuck So funny Love it Love it It's like the PG-13 Beastie Boys

Yeah, there is a yes, yes Cause I'm a big Beastie Boys fan And I can hear it there Yeah, absolutely, yeah We didn't really know who they were in the beginning But then, yeah, people are like, you guys are like the Beastie Boys. Yeah, kind of. It seems like it, the Beastie Boys with horns.

But, yeah, that was quite a day. That was great. We had to change 20 Deutschmarks into 20 Ostmarks, and then to try and spend that 20 Ostmarks was almost impossible because, like, you know, lunch was $0.30, beers were $0.10. We mentioned beer three times in that song. Yeah, so we had fun. Those guys are from Nova Scotia.

I did my best to keep them. I actually have roots in New Brunswick. So beer is a part of the tradition, and we did our best to keep up. But yeah, we had fun. We met a guy who was a photographer, at least on the side, and he actually only had one roll of film a month. So he took us and showed us his photos, which were very thought out. Sure.

When art is constricted in that way, some really cool things happen. And he took us to a bar. It was someone's birthday. We played. We had a great time. And then we realized we were late, so we jumped on the subway, got close to Checkpoint Charlie. We're running.

And our German friends were behind us. And we still had 15 Ostmarks. So we were like, you know, we held them up in the air. Guys, and we just left them on a rock and kept running. So they probably had a good month because of that. Yeah. So that was super fun. Great story.

Now, I'm going to play another Shuffle Demons jam and then ask you about this. Oh, boy. Oh, yes. The End Thank you. guitar solo Well, a heavy roach Livin' in my wall Livin' with him Wasn't no fun at all

Well, I told him to go Yeah, I showed him the way And when I talked to him This is what I'd say Out of my house, roach Stickin' out of my house, roach Oh, out of my house, roach. Sticking out of my house, roach. Oh, out of my house, roach. Sticking out of my house, roach.

Don't want to see you here no more. Crawling up my walls, all across my floor. All right, so I want to hear the story of the song, but more importantly, the video, I think, if I have the right video, because this is a Joel Goldberg-directed video. Exactly, I was going to say, Joel Goldberg. So Joel was kind of an affiliate

with the people who worked at City TV. He helped found Electric Circus. Oh, yeah, absolutely. He was a big part of the CDTV family. And so when we were making Spadina Bus, he actually shot video behind the scenes of the making of Spadina Bus, which would be great. It's just nowadays you can shoot it on your phone and it would look great.

It looks a little grainy. But so we met Joel during that time. And then when we were making a second one, Joel said, hey, I'd like to be part of that. And he did a fantastic video. Kurt Swinghammer, you know, worked. FOTN Kurt Swinghammer. Oh, absolutely.

And he worked, you know, hundreds of hours for a very low amount. Because, you know, we didn't get tons of money for those grants. But he transformed the Great Hall upstairs into this demon roach house. He worked so hard on that. He was really integral to our style. We can't thank Kurt enough for his contributions. We didn't talk about this for what it's worth. We absolutely talked about his contributions to the Shuffle Demons

when he visited. He biked over too. You biked here, right? Yeah, absolutely. I love it. Kurt's the last guy who biked here, but I always encourage guests to bike here. We're right on the waterfront trail.

Oh, it was, that was a beautiful day to work. I just can't imagine if I would have driven, I would have been so stressed. You're preaching to the choir. I know, I know. I'm going to a wedding, and it's in the far,

I'll call it the far south east corner of this city. Okay. And I'm in the far west, southwest corner of the city essentially. And it's like I mapped it out. It's like a two hour ride each way or whatever, this wedding. But I can't imagine driving to the wedding.

Like that's where I'm at now. It's like, no, I'm just part of the joy and experience of this whole event is that I'm going to get to cycle there on the waterfront trail and cycle back. Yeah, I know. It's fun. You smell the flower, you know, whatever. You smell things.

And, yeah, you just don't have that rage and agony. And I sympathize with it because every once in a while I have to rent a car and do a gig or whatever and trying to get back or whatever. It's really not much fun. Well, sometimes you have to drive. I was in Ajax on Saturday with the family at this, my wife's family at this event. And I, you know, we're sitting on the 401.

Like we're literally sitting there for like an hour or whatever. And I'm like, I really, really hate this. Like I've just grown to detest the fact that I'm sitting in this chunk of metal on the 401 in congestion, in volume, where I could be like, yeah, it would take forever, but I could be free as a bird. Yeah, I know, you could be riding along and having a lovely time. So do you bike a lot? Then we'll get back to Joel, don't worry.

Sure, sure, we'll get back to you. But you cycle quite a bit? Yeah, I don't have a car. Yeah, I cycle everywhere, absolutely. Yeah, and love it. Some of the trails are great. I've been doing this thing, which is really nice, called Concerts in Care, so they provide music for people in LTC homes. So I've done some.

I've cycled up to right near Humber College North to do a home up there and Homes in Scarborough. I've cycled around. I've done that ride because I spoke to a Humber College class about podcasting. And I biked up there, sure, near the racetrack. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah right shout out to peter gross peter gross he hosts the definitive ontario horse racing podcast it's called down the stretch oh interesting speaking of 299 queen yeah any peter gross stories yeah i just now noticed your shirt's got bikes on it well Well, that, yeah, I kind of. I love it.

And I didn't know that you were a cyclist. I just thought I'm biking here. Yeah, you're an advocate. I saw the Anthony Fury sign on your lawn. I was a little worried. I hosted an event. I didn't host the event. I was recording at this event at Great Lakes Brew Pub,

which is Jervis in Queens Quay. And it was for AM640 and all these people who contribute came on the microphone. And Fury was at that event. He could have jumped. He didn't choose to jump on the mic, but I would have let him on the mic and talk to him. But yeah, I've got, you know, grave concerns. I was at an event. You mentioned East Berlin.

Okay. I was at an event on Saturday that was hosted by the German consulate. Oh, the cycling Toronto thing. Yes. and we all met at Sugar Beach, and they gave out these German flags, and I affixed one to my bike, and then we were making our way to this beautiful

Lutheran Evangelical Church where Dimplemeyer Bakery was going to feed us, and it was all paid for by the German consulate, and it was wonderful. Shout out to Lanrick Bennett Jr., who was an FOTM. He was there, and chris drew and all these great fotms but uh there's some guy at sugar beach was calling us nazis like you know what i mean and i was trying to think okay so we're at a cycling event okay and i'm like i guess it's the german flags that are triggering the uh yelling

nazis at us i'm like so yeah so i was thinking, if you only knew this was a cycling advocacy group that's about to go bike on the Martin Goodman Trail to Mimico. So many anti-Nazi Germans that I know. Yeah, well, that's just it. I used to work for a German software company and I wouldn't even say the word on their soil. Oh, gosh. Yeah, I know. Well, and you know, it's interesting. We played in Germany a lot.

So we toured over in Europe we played in Germany a lot. So we toured over in Europe in the 90s a lot. And okay, we're breaking completely away. It's okay, I like the tangents. I'm going to come back to Joel. This is a great story. So we played something called Wiede für eine Gumm Nacht. Yeah, mein Deutsch ist

Nacht is night. Yeah, yes. So it means we're all together night, or something like that. Someone who knows German can actually tell me. We'll call in angrily and tell us what it actually means. But what it was, it was in 92, the official joining together of the two Germanys. So it had sort of happened, but this was the official night. So we played a loft party in this place called Hof,

which was on the East German, West German, and Czech border, one of those little points right you know that intersects three things so they had a bunch of bands and a party and so first off it was the czech band and they were you know and this is very early in in post communism and so the they were like these wild men who had like hockey stick guitars and like melodicas with but with a blowpipe you know play as a piano and they played this weird sort of you know crazy eastern european folk stuff wonderful uh then the easterns came on and they had like nude poetry and a wall and it was very experimental one of the things we found you know when we did travel over there, it was like the art, the Eastern European art

was often very experimental and not particularly lyrical, but more expressive because, you know, if you said, you know, down with the government, you'd be sent away. But if you just made really weird outside art and you implied it, then it was sort of able to sneak under the radar. So that was incredible.

Then the Shuffle Demons played, and we did our thing. And then the very final band was a West German band, and they were a top 40 cover band. And I thought, man, this is just a total, it's perfectly representing what's going on. There's all this really cool organic stuff, and yeah, welcome to capitalism. And so we actually played uh in this uh a town called plowin about a

year or two after the reunification and they were like we we did not expect that there would be people on the street we did not expect we'd have to pay anything for health care like they were they were blindsided you know the older people especially the young people often just kind of went with it and like we're rolling we're gonna do it but sure but yeah they were blindsided. The older people, especially the young people often just kind of went with it and like, we're rolling, we're going to do it. But yeah, they were like, capitalism is going to save us. And it's like, well, you know,

eventually it's going to be better in some ways. But yeah, it's not necessarily the panacea for everything. Very interesting. Yeah. I've just been really joyed being in those times in history.

Well, that's what a time in history that was, right? Yeah. When the wall came tumbling down. Yeah, I've been to Berlin, but it was well after the unification. But it is still interesting to see, you know, Checkpoint Charlie, and you see parts of the wall that they kept up and things like that, and it's just, what a historical city.

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, cool. And, you know, Berlin, I don't know if it still is, but for many years, and I've been to a few music conferences there, it was always sort of a cheap oasis in the middle of Germany, middle of Europe.

Well, that's why David Bowie was doing all his music. Well, yeah, of course, right. Well, yeah, no, a lot of artists do collect there because it's not as expensive as living in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. It still is. Yeah, it's still, it still got this cheaper feel to it. And we've stayed at some interesting apartments

where it's like a big real house apartment with one washroom per floor, like at the end of the hall. But functional, cool, whatever. Yeah, you can afford to work on your art. That's something missing here in Toronto in 2023. Oh, we got gotta get back to Joel what more can you share with us just because he's such a beloved FOTM

he's been on the program several times he's kicked out the jams he of course went on after directing Shuffle Demons he would go on and direct for Maestro Fresh West exactly yeah and those are big deals let your backbone slide and drop the needle.

This is the big time. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. Joel's fantastic. He's just such a positive guy and he's got a great attitude and works really hard and knows how to make things happen.

And so, yeah, it's always been a pleasure. And he's just a great guy to hang with, too. So, yeah, we love our Joel. Okay. Let's hear some more. I got a bunch of jams here, but let's kick out something. Oh. Thank you. Have a good one Yeah, have a good one Have a good one

I find this song is funny because, you know, the chorus is have a good one, but it sounds so dark. I do. And that's a must point out that Dave Parker also wrote Out of My House Roach. So Dave was really the hit writer and uh with he had kind of a bubbly positive attitude when i write it's like we're all going to you know our brains are going to be controlled by ai and uh watch out that's unfortunately that's the way i seem to write anyway hello too funny. Too funny. I know. Sounds great, though. What is the effect, though?

What is that effect where it sounds like somebody's talking on the phone or whatever? Yeah, we'd have to ask John O'Grant, who's a fantastic producer who does all of our work in the studio. But yeah, he just EQs it a certain way and puts on a few little... I'm just looking for all the inside secrets here, Richard. Oh, yeah, I can phone it in or I'll email you. But yeah, something to make it a little bit unique, you know? Yeah, yeah. Or a little different somehow.

Very cool. Okay, if you don't mind, I'm going to leave Shuffle Demons for a moment here. So while we have another minute left in this song, I'm actually going to give you a couple more gifts real quickly here. Oh. I saw this pile of stuff. What's going on? Okay, so more gifts real quickly here. Oh. So. I saw this pile of stuff. What's going on? Okay, so let me rip that out.

Okay. Oh. This is a flashlight courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of this community since 1921. The great Brad Jones at Ridley Funeral Home. Amazing. I could like, hey, could this be a bike light if I just put it there? You know what?

It comes in handy. Yeah. For example, when the kids lose the remote and I need to whip out the Ridley Funeral Home flashlight and check under the couch and find it. Well, that's really nice. Thank you, Ridley. That's great. And I know you like your tunes, but you might also enjoy

season four of Yes, We Are Open, which is an award-winning podcast from Moneris, hosted by FOTML Grego, who's been traveling the country chatting with small business owners and collecting their stories to share with us. Season four,

Yes, We Are Open. You can listen to it on your new quality wireless speaker from Moneris. Wow. Thank you. Even the great Ed Keenan

had that playing jams at his 50th birthday party the other day. Holy Toledo. This is fantastic. That's a big endorsement right there. And Rob Pruce from Spoons

came over to say how darn good it sounds. I know Moneris is not in the, Yeah, this is fantastic. That's a big endorsement right there. And Rob Proust from Spoons came over to say, how darn good it sounds. I know Moneris is not in the, they don't sell speakers at Moneris, but they should. They're out of the speaker business generally. More in the terminal business.

I mean, you know, terminals. Terminals, yeah, you know Moneris, okay. I do know Moneris, yeah. Well, when I was running for mayor, I flirted with the idea of Moneris for taking credit cards for donations, but then I just kind of fizzled out, so it didn't matter. Okay, because you could have been a guest on

Yes, We Are Open, the award-winning podcast. Right, I could have. If you were a Moneris client there. Oh, well, it didn't work. All right, not, this is not, and then we are going to get, well, shout out, yeah, we're going to get political, basically.

Shout out to John Mann, so political. We're going to get there, basically. I should have said John Mann. So political. We're going to get there. But first, a bit of this. There's a light. Oh, yes. A certain kind of light. That never shines on me.

I want my life to be. Here with you. I want to be with you. There's a way. I hear everybody say Just to do everything that I can But what good will it do If I can't have you

If I can't have you, if I can't have you, baby You don't know what it's like No, you don't know what it's like You don't know what it's like No, you don't know what it's like To love somebody To love somebody When I love you I'm fine without love.

Speaking of great Toronto bands, Richard, we have Blue Rodeo. The Great Blue Rodeo. Do you know why I've chosen to play this cover, this Bee Gees cover? Why am I playing this song in particular? Because the Bushwack Horns are on that, and I was one of the Bushwack Horns. I guess you could call me the leader of the Bushwack Horns. Wow. Yeah, a couple years in the early 2000s, we played with Blue Rodeo.

And, you know, I've known them forever. I think the Demons did, like, one song at Massey Hall with them back in the 80s once. I remember going to rehearse at their funky place on Sororan, and I know we did something. That's called The Woodshed. No, that's the new one. You're right. I was there.

I should know. It was nowhere near Sororan. Yeah, yeah. Which is the name I butcher. I bike that street a lot. And say it again, Sororan? Sororan. Yeah, so... Which is the name I butcher. I bike that street a lot. And say it again, Saronin? Saronin. I actually like it.

I almost butcher it as often as I butcher the word brewery. Oh, that's not bad. I love the Saronin Park Farmer's Market, which is every Monday. I'm a big Farmer's Market fan. So 3 to 7, Saronin Park Farmer's Market. Go there. It's great, organic, blah, blah, blah. It's wonderful. And they have music, and I sometimes play it.

Anyway, so they called up one day and said, hey, we want to put together this horn section. We want to kind of have some fun and expand. Just for a couple of gigs, we thought. Ended up being a couple years, an album. This was sort of an introduction to the new sound. Right here, right? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Great song, man. They do a great job on this. Okay. Yeah. Nice. Great song, man. They do a great job on this, and you sound great in there, too. No, they're great. What a band. They're a great band.

Absolutely great songwriters, great performers, Glenn Miltram and Basil. Great rhythm section. Annie Lindsay there was on violin, and she's a long-time Blue Rodeo contributor. A blue head, as Michael Grange would call him. Not blue hair, anyway. So we got on the Blue Rodeo train, and I assembled the horn section, and we just had a wonderful time. And one of the things we did was Sarstok.

So we were in Vancouver one day, and then we were on a red eye, and then we were at Downsview Park to do Sarastock. And so that was pretty fun. What was that like? I mean, I don't remember why I didn't go to Sarastock. Like, people just assume I was there. But, I mean, I could have gone there. I think I thought it was too many people.

Yeah, kind of a crazy crush of people. So we were so lucky because we got to watch it from the VIP tent tent on the side with free drinks and food and whatever so that was great but our show was funny so you know we were on about four o'clock or something everyone had 15 minutes i mean the bands before the the end and um i get over there okay but for some reason they just had an american crew they wouldn't let our crew do anything they wouldn't let them do front of house they wouldn't let them do monitors and it just weird you know it's weird like just have the person there to say well you know this person likes this this person likes that right so we get on it's the very first tune we got we're horns right off the top 10 bars here we go

nothing really nothing in the monitors at all. And it's going out into this field, so there's no slapback. So we don't even know if our mics are on, right? So there's a really funny shot in the live feed of it, which I think they edited out for the DVD, which I have to look at again. But the camera, you know, so it's Blue Rodeo, and they got some horns, and the camera's panning down.

It's incredible. And the camera turns around to sort of look back from the horns back towards jim and greg and i turn around and go what the hell is going on we don't have any goddamn monitors what's wrong with you oh that sucks so classic so anyway we just like went okay and just let you know just figure we were fine it sounded great actually it's not really good so you know we just we just went with it but it was a classic moment but that's not the funniest moment of of the show so we're gone we're watching you know standing on my chair for like you know randy bachman loving it and and uh the old some of the old timey stuff and you know of course uh acdDC was killer.

And then there was like, there's a photo shoot. So everyone went back to, okay, there's a photo shoot. We better get back there. Get there. And we're like the first bands that come. You know, it's like Sam Roberts and us and some of the bands that had opened the day. And especially the Flaming Lips.

I remember the Flaming, didn't they have, did they know it was Rush that had like a washing dryer? The Washing Machine. Slim has had some schtick. He had something out of flaming lips but anyway so wayne from so we're back there and we're the horn section from blue rose so we're like we're not going to be in the front we're in the back we're cool we're just hanging but wayne from from flaming lips was determined so he was all elbows at the front and so then they bring in everyone but the stones rush and all those guys and wayne is like all elbows at the front and the woman who's running is like wayne you guys go back wayne stop being an asshole like you can't do that come on you you just

he still is in the front like he still did it but anyway so then they brought everyone else in then they brought the stones in we all applauded a guy got up in a chair boom boom boom eight photos done then the stones kind of broke off and and went back to people and get of course keith comes right to the back and keith comes right to us and he's like he's got his pink bandana and his cigarette he's like he shakes his head you don't be doing this when you're my age and we're like what's that 200 and his hand fell off and oh we had to help get it back you know frankly the stones were terrible right like i mean keith and ronnie were so trashed because they've been partying with all the bands all right right right and so yeah the other guys were fine but those two guys were oh man it was, they were kind of drunk. Anyway, but it was fun meeting Keith.

I mean, you know, good on him. He was cool. He came to see the little people. Well, in hindsight now, I should have gone to the stupid stores. I think one of those things, you know, what's the Yogi Bear line? Like, that place is too busy. Nobody goes there anymore. Like, I had a sense of like, oh, everyone's going to that.

Like, I'm going to run the other direction. I don't know. But maybe, maybe like if it happened this weekend, I would probably bike over just for the, just for shits and giggles, you know, just to experience it. You know what? ACDC was great. Like that was the first kind of big outdoor rock show thing

that I'd ever seen that really lived up to. It was a big, awesome outdoor rock show. Like those guys ever seen that really lived up to it was a big awesome outdoor rock show like those guys made it okay yeah for me i mean i'm not one who's seen many big you weren't at woodstock i was not at woodstock uh the closest i came when i was a teenager was we went to we were going to go see april wine in vernon goodwin is an fotea yeah good yeah we love them and we're gonna go see wine and vernon but the school bus broke down and so we could we ended up going so like i never really saw those shows as a kid because we were in salmon arm like nobody nobody came to the big ones around here would be the the the edge fests at molson park and berry which i went to several

yeah played and then uh our lady peace did okay okay who is the head do you remember at all like fests at Molson Park in Barrie, which I went to several. Yeah, played once. And then Our Lady Peace did... Okay, who was the... Do you remember at all the headliner of the year you played? Do you have that memory? No. I just played... I remember we played...

Was it small stage or the big stage that Shuffle Demons get to play? Maybe small. We played kind of around the same... Manteca was there and we were there, so it must have been

sort of some novelty stage. I don't know, like a jazz stage, but maybe it was the... I don't remember.'s cool that's cool and the other one uh our lady p started one uh and i i was i was there to see the uh smashing pumpkins farewell tour and they sucked and then i ended up they ended up of course they never there was no farewell tour because uh corgan just you know he just changed the parts and kept going or whatever and then i ended up seeing them again about five years ago,

and they were actually really awesome. And it was like, where was that back in whatever it was, 98 or whatever. But Somersault, they called it Somersault. This was the Our Lady Peace tour. Well, bands go through phases. It's true. They do. Sometimes you have a certain player that's great.

I'm a big Pumpkins guy. I will say Siamese Dream, for example, that album, I still can put it on and play through it and just love it. I just think it's amazing. And I hear that's like an album where I hear the guys in the band with Jimmy Iha and Gretzky, all their parts, I think Billy Corgan

redid their parts in the studio. So when this album comes out, it's all Corgan, but the members of the band don't know that he redid their parts in the studio. So like when this album comes out, it's all Corrigan. But the members of the band don't know that he redid their parts. Oh, yeah, classic, classic. So there you go. That's like that's the ego we're dealing with here. But okay.

Well, that's another thing. It's funny. Like you get worried like, oh, if I did, I mean, it sounds better, but I don't want to tell them that. You know, there's all these band things because it's a very family dynamic. And sometimes, you know, some bands are really good at being able to, you know, actually say what they want to say, but other people have to do it sort of surreptitiously

and then pay the fallout later. It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Exactly. Like early Foo Fighters or whatever, if Dave Grohl redoes the drum parts or whatever, it's like, okay, I get it, but okay. Mike from K-Dub has a question for you, Richard. He goes, I have hazy memories, but okay. Mike from K-Dub has a question for you, Richard. He goes,

I have hazy memories, and you kind of described this happening at a different show, so I think we're going to find out more info, but I have hazy memories of being at an epic New Year's Eve show when the Shuffle Demons crowd followed the band out onto the street in some sort of bizarre jazz conga line. He said maybe it was the

Elmo. What do you want to share with mike i bet that was lee's palace i bet it was lee's palace uh because we did new year's 87 at lee's palace it was it's been on it was sort of on the lee's palace wall of fame kind of thing and i had a really funny negotiation with mr lee asking for a certain amount of money and he kind of you know he was a hundred dollars less or whatever but he was he was like and a hundred dollars for your pocket and i was like oh so you mean that much he goes no no that much plus a hundred for you and i'm like okay i'm just gonna tell the band it's the total amount but yeah we can pretend that it's a hundred

for me and you're kind of bribing me but I'm just going to tell the band what the money is I got COVID at Lee's Palace last December oh I'm sorry to hear that I know I know but I was at a Louis DeLos show and it happened but that's okay any real static stories I just was

doing this thing with Bedini and I was just thinking real statics and I'm sure you guys must have crossed paths. Well, the funniest part is the time I did a tour with the Real Statics in China. What? Yeah. Dave, I think, wrote, I haven't read his book. He wrote a book about this,

but we did these funny guys from China came over here, and they went to the East Coast Music Awards and found a bunch of bands, and then somehow they found us, and somehow they found Dave and we ended up doing this tour of theaters and weird sort of venues in China in 2006, which was really cool, really eyeopening, really interesting,

really fun. Um, and really strange. And, uh, yeah. So we played this really big theater in Shanghai to open the whole thing off. And that was really great.

And then we kind of did these really small cities. Like there was this town that they were from called Shijiazhuang, and it was like a really big industrial town. And so the air was like New York air the other day when the forest fires were there. So yeah, it was just a really cool eye-opening look at China at that time, which is a few years ago, and so things weren't quite as developed as they are now.

Yeah, it was really cool. So that's when we hung out with Dave. Okay, cool, cool. Now I'm going to play a cover you did just to find the story behind it because it's kind of a fun cover that we all know. Yes, yes. Ah. a hockey night in Canada theme song, which I think was actually called

the hockey song, maybe? I don't know what Dolores Clayman called it. Yes, and good on you for knowing Dolores. Yes. Who passed away kind of recently, a few years ago. A few years ago, absolutely. We met her.

I think one of our agents kind of managed to set that up, so it was really fun to meet her. Was she nice? She also did the Ontario song, right? Yeah, she was great. She was a great writer, obviously. She did so many great songs. But yeah, people didn't know that.

And part of it, there was kind of a controversy with CBC there. Big time. Yeah, because she'd never been really getting the proper due. Because it was written, I guess, as an Esso jingle, right? Originally? If you say so, that sounds like it might be right, but I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah.

It is one of the great, you know, I'm a big hockey fan, and it does really suck that Bell Media owns the rights to this song. Right. Bell Media doesn't air a lot of NHL hockey because of the deal the Rogers has. Hold on, let me hear this person. Back to Boston! To Zittler in the slot! He's in!

He scores! Zittler! Zittler! So how did you come to cover this song? Well, you know, I think one of the various people who played in the band, because we often were looking for bass players, was Victor Bateman, and I really think that he might have suggested we do it. And, you know, once he suggested that,

it was like, oh, wow, that's a great idea. And so, yeah, we do it. And, you know, we would often, you know, it started the second set joke, you know, if you'd all please rise for Canada's national anthem and then play this. And people would get it and laugh. Yeah, people love it.

It made a very strong imprint on on people uh of our generation and older and younger even and so people love the song and it's fun to do sort of a raucous version of it you know all right i'm gonna let this song take us so we're gonna like i said uh shout out to spirit of the west we We're going to get a little political here. Just as a segue. Yeah, go ahead. And let's join a few people together. We came back for our 20th anniversary in 2004. So the band kind of went till 1997 and people got really tired of touring.

And it had actually changed it to me and sort of an electric band with lots of effects and everything. And then in 2004, we were like, let's go back for the 20th anniversary tour and to do that we did a world a guinness world record breaking event playing hockey night in canada at dundas square with 900 sax players which was just amazing yeah it was like one of those hey let's do a promotional stunt that turned into a really nice community event you know it was great There were mothers and sons and fathers and daughters playing together. And James B., of course, from Jazz FM was helping to organize and spread the word. The famous one, absolutely. And to segue into political, Olivia Chow was there to help as well

and to be like an official signatory on the record. Okay, great segue. You said Olivia Chow. Let's listen to this oh man you've done your research i'm richard underhill and this is my good friend kevin barrett and we have a little impromptu song here on a beautiful saturday on the streets of uh toronto it's on youtube still olivia chow's been long-time fans of the Orange Wave, but we know that a lot of other people are just kind of waking up to it.

So we're going to do a little song for you right now. One, two, one, two, three. Prime Minister Layton. Love it. We know that you'll be the best. Prime Minister Layton. Better than all the rest. Prime Minister Layton, won't you show us the way?

Prime Minister Layton, we'll vote for you on the 2nd of May. That's fun. So many places I want to go with this, but one note I'll read to you from Andrew Ward. He writes, we were all completely blown away by Richard's playing at the funeral for Jack Layden. Can you ask him a little bit about his relationship with Jack and how playing at the memorial came to be, including the selection and the arrangement?

Yeah, okay. So, well, I used to play at a place on King Street. You know, King and John, I can't remember the name of it, but I think it was 307 King or something, a restaurant. We used to play outside. Jack and Olivia would come by on their tandem because we were playing on the patio, hanging out, watching a few tunes.

But that was maybe in the 90s. But I guess I've always gravitated towards progressive politics. And I think I paid attention before and maybe been to fine ranges because we knew each other. And we were in the neighborhood. So I'm not exactly sure how the relationship developed before because we knew each other so and we were in the neighborhood so i'm not exactly sure how the relationship developed but we knew each other

then when jack was running for the leadership um he called together a whole bunch of artists to uh help you know craft sort of a a strategy to help win the leadership so i wrote a song with lorraine sagado also an fotm yes rain and that was really fun to be able to write with her because So I wrote a song with Lorraine Segato. Also an FOTM. Yes, Lorraine. And that was really fun to be able to write with her because I never really would have had that opportunity before. So we wrote a song for his campaign. And then my friend John helped to put it together. They made a video of it, sort of of his, it was called Together.

And they made a video presentation before he came on for the leadership. So, I mean, he won quite handily um but it was really cool that they you know they consulted artists um as part of their campaign strategy which you know you you really don't often see in terms of the you know the bigger party type campaigns so yeah i'd always been a fan, always been sort of part of the process and loved the grassroots nature of Jack and Olivia. And then, you know, when the funeral was coming up, Olivia got in touch with me and said, you know, I'd love you to play, and I was honored and scared. And she chose the music, actually.

She said there was one called The Magnificat, which was Mo Kaufman's version of a Bach tune. And the other one was Into the Mystic. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, I just, I worked up an arrangement and put together a top band. And then we kind of, I got us there at like 8 a.m. or 9 a.m. with no food, just like water and coffee or something. And we waited for, you know for five hours and then went on

and fortunately played it well. I watched the video last night of Into the Mystic. Yeah, it's on YouTube too. Oh, of us playing it? Yeah. Is that the one from Billy? I think so, yeah. Yeah, because my poor mom,

she didn't get a chance to see it because her phone was ringing nonstop as it was going on. But yeah, that was, you know, it was, it was a touching moment and, uh, I was glad to be able to do it, you know, because he was a great friend and he was a great person and, and to be able to, to contribute somehow to his memorial was, uh, was an honor for sure. to contribute somehow to his memorial was an honor for sure. And it's nice to see Olivia is, you know, on track, hopefully, fingers crossed, to be a progressive mayor.

Well, that's the natural next question. Of course, here we're speaking on June 19th, 2023, and on June 26th, 2023, although I've already voted because of advance voting, but Toronto goes to the polls. Yeah. And Olivia Chow is the front runner if you believe the polls. And depending which poll you look at, she seems to be significantly ahead of the other 102 candidates.

102, I know, it's crazy. So what's that like? I mean, you just chatted with us about your relationship with Olivia Chow and Jack Layden. And we lost Jack far too soon, sadly. And you were, you know,

talked about performing on his memorial, but here, Olivia, who ran for mayor and I think it was 2014, finished third. Yeah. That was the year John Tory beat Doug Fordd and this time it really i mean it feels very different uh this time it feels like she's more herself this time uh and less like

you know listening to you know high priced you know by the way high price pr people i'm not saying don't listen to high price pr maybe Maybe the high price is the problem, but a proud sponsor of this program is the moment lab. And I just want to shout them out because they do a brand marketing and strategy and PR and advertising and production. And by all accounts, everyone I've talked to who's worked at the moment lab has had a great experience.

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Thank you to EPRA. Okay. So Andrew Ward actually it, love it. Thank you to E-P-R-A. Okay. So, Andrew Ward actually was, I believe the next question was, he reminded me you ran for mayor, which we should touch on here. In 2014. In 2014. Yeah, exactly.

Okay. Olivia beat you in that election. Well, you see, people will say, I voted for you, and I'm going, well, you didn't, because I actually withdrew before the vote because I didn't want to siphon off like half a percent of Olivia's potential total or whatever. So I was. Were you on the ballot?

No. So because when Wynn put in ranked ballots, I thought, now that's great. Now I can run and not feel bad about it, you know, because I want a progressive to win. Because ranked ballots. Exactly. That's why we love ranked ballots. Yeah, exactly. Because I want a progressive to win. Because rank ballots, exactly. That's why we love rank ballots. Yeah, exactly. Because I want a progressive to win.

And it wouldn't necessarily work for me, but it really, rank ballots really helps the local hero. The person who's coming up, who's got great ideas, who isn't maybe backed by a party machine, but is great. Like a Chloe Brown or somebody like that. You can vote for them

first, and then, yeah. Sorry, Cody. I'm not sure. Oh, no. Just mentioning one of the candidates who might fall in that category, Chloe Brown. Okay.

Oh, Chloe. Sorry. I thought you said Cody. Yes, Chloe. Oh, no. Sorry. Yes, Chloe's amazing. My accent, my East Coast accent.

Yeah, sorry, man. Yeah, Chloe's great. Exactly. So you could vote for Chloe first and then you could vote for, you could have Olivia as your number two because she's more likely to garner more support.

But at least you can show, and in the odd case, like some of those local heroes, those champions, those unlikely candidates can win. And that's fun. That's what you want is interesting change. Far more democratic than a first-past-the-post system where literally when you're in the privacy of that booth, even let's say hypothetically speaking,

and I had this conversation with Matt Elliott very recently. We did a whole primer for this. But if you're in the voting booth, let's say you want Josh Matlow to be your mayor. Let's say, I'm just talking hypothetically. And you're thinking, oh, I really don't want Mark Saunders to be the mayor. You're sitting there and you're thinking,

if I vote for Josh Matlow, that's one less vote for olivia chow right and that allows john john john john was a great sports broadcast at city tv here yeah but mark saunders who sent me a uh i did not ask for to be on this list but i got a text from mark saunders campaign today and i'll read the text to you this came in today i'm a little over the place but this just came in today i get a text from a number I don't recognize. In fact, the phone just rang. It might be the same number.

What do I know? But this text reads, and I tell this to you here, Richard. It reads, hold on, Mike, find your text. Here it is. I'm Mark Saunders running for mayor. If Olivia Chow wins, she'll defund the police and hike taxes. Only I can stop her.

Reply yes to support me. Stop to stop. Okay, these are the options, I can stop her reply. Yes. To support me. Uh, stop to stop. Okay. These are the options I guess to reply. So this is an unsolicited spam text that I got here from the Mark Saunders, uh, campaign.

But when I'm in the privacy of that booth, I might want Josh Matlow, but I even more than that, I don't want Mark Saunders. I might cast a vote for Olivia Chow just to ensure. And this actually caught in 2014, I think this cost her. Because I think there was a real fear of Doug Ford being mayor. And when you're in that room and you're like, you know, John Tory is not my guy,

but I will take a John Tory over a Doug Ford. And I'm sorry, Olivia, but my vote's going, you know. So this is why first past the post sucks. Well, I think some of the people who voted for Pantalone in the previous election when Rob Ford got elected may have felt that way or whatever. Yeah. No, First Past is terrible.

I mean, I think we definitely have three maybe more really great candidates in this election, Olivia being one of them, of course, and the one who is trending at the top and so really makes sense if you want to see a progressive person to vote for olivia right but of course matlow's great chloe brown's great um you know there's other choices that people could you wouldn't feel bad voting for those people right you right but now when you vote for those people you feel like you're helping Mark Saunders. Or whoever, yeah.

And he'll rip up our bike lanes, which he's very excited to do. God, it seems so wasteful. I mean, that's the thing. Conservatives always kind of talk about fiscal responsibility and then do sort of really crazy fiscal things. They appeal to that base. Oh, my goodness.

They love to rip up the bike lanes. So silly. Anyway. Anyway, let's, you know, I'm really hopeful that Olivia can pull it off and then that would be great and the good thing about that and someone who told me who was like also like

Matt Lowe was saying well he'll still be on council that is true him and Brad Bradford I said Brad came over here the other week and I said yeah he came on well I don't actually so my rule with active politicians like Olivia Chow I don't actually, so my rule with active politicians like Olivia Chow, I don't actually pursue any

or invite any on. But if an active politician, I have a note in my inbox from Anne Bailao's campaign, but if an active politician wants to come on and I deem them of a certain, like, you know,

Blake Acton wanted to come on and I took a pass. Like you have to be a certain stature, if you will. But, you know, obviously the big eight or whatever would be of a certain stature, if you will. But, you know, obviously the big, the big eight or whatever would be of a certain stature.

So Brad Bradford's people wanted him on and he wanted to come on and he came on and I really enjoyed the conversation. Right. It was, it was great to talk to, to Brad Bradford. And then maybe I'll talk to Anna Bilo. But yeah, Brad Bradford did come on. Why did I bring him up?

Do you remember? What was I going to say about Brad Bradford? Something about Brad. I'm trying to remember now real quickly what I was going to say about Brad Bradford, who is a cyclist, by the way. Oh, yeah. He's a cyclist. And you know what? It's funny because I brought up Brad to make a point

about Brad Bradford, but hopefully it comes back to me before we say goodbye in about five minutes here. But it was a great convo. But it was a great convo. Like it was legit a great convo. And whether I voted for him or not is irrelevant. I enjoyed my hour chat alone in this room drinking Great Lakes beer with Brad Bradford. And he made a lot of sense.

And I hope people listen to that. But at any moment in the next five minutes, I'll remember why I brought him up. But what were you going to say? What was I going to say about what? To bail me out here. Okay. So you ran, you obviously wanted to run for mayor in 2014.

Yeah, yeah. And then you pulled yourself in the ticket so that the votes wouldn't be siphoned from Olivia Chow. And it was, you know, it wasn't necessarily the right time for me to run other than the fact that, you know, Rob Ford had run. And, you know,

the interesting thing was he kind of, you know, no offense to the Rob Ford interesting thing was he kind of you know no no offense to the rob ford fans but he kind of lowered the bar right it was like he was getting in at 11 o'clock and you know he kind of liked to party and i kind of liked to party but you know not in the same way obviously but but you know i like i'm i live jazz musician hours and i was like you know what the city isn't actually falling apart and this guy's kind of rolling in at 11 and doing a few things and then so actually you know i could do i could do because when you see what the city isn't actually falling apart and this guy's kind of rolling out of the leaven and doing a few things and then so actually you know i could do i could do because when you see the

other mayors getting up early and doing you know john tor for example whether you agreed of his politics or not or whether i thought he did a good job or not you will admit the man seemed to work very hard like he seemed to be working a lot bad things you see that's where rob was better because he didn't work so hard at the bad things. He just worked. You could work around him. Yeah, no, he did. Yeah, and he did.

And the outlandish things he came up with, actually, people didn't want to do. So it was actually, you know, ostensibly better. Maybe not, but the Scarborough Suburb. I know. I see your point there. Yeah. I see your point here.

Did you see this in your crystal ball? Did you see John Tory sex scandal coming in 2023? I actually didn't see that. Yeah. No, no. I guess we still live in a very strange timeline. It's not predictable. Did you consider being like the 103rd candidate?

Like, did that cross your mind? Yeah. No, because I mean, for the same reason that i i got out originally i actually would have been better to to run when john tory was running because he's pretty much undefeatable as a as a as a as an incumbent oh yes he was you're right that was like the last the last year's election was like and i voted because it's you know but what was the point like it was so obvious he was going to win yeah big and none of the big ticket players got in. Like, they're all scared of it, right?

It's an incumbent. So none of the big tickets. So Matlow doesn't get in then. Chow doesn't get in then. So you live with Gil, and Gil's cool. Or Chloe, who I actually didn't find out about until after the election. I didn't realize she was there and she was cool. So, you know, you could have voted for something.

But that's the one I maybe should have if I wanted to run for because it doesn't matter. Then you're not really sandbagging and progressive because we don't have a bank balance. Right. I did just now remember why I brought up Brad Bradford. It's always good, right?

Because it's like, what's the name of that band with slugs in Vancouver? Oh, yeah, Doug and the Slugs. Okay, a couple of brain farts this episode. I apologize. I might be brain damaged. But okay.

Brad Bradford, I said to him when he sat down with me for that hour, I said, you're playing with house money. Because Brad Bradford, I went in the history of the city. Can you run for mayor? That's right. And then the day you lose. You still got a gig. You go back to city hall as city councillor.

Yeah. Unprecedented. Never happens. and here it is happening now and there are yes there's two i call the big eight big six whatever but two members of the big six big eight will have that luxury and are essentially playing with house money yeah that's kind of cool or mitzi hunter on the other hand gave up uh yeah you know what don't you feel like in the back of your mind maybe she's got another gig lined up? Like it just, you know what I mean?

Like I'm not sure she walked away from being it was an MPP to be mayor because, yeah. But well, who knows? What do I know? No, I know. I know it's confusing and also people are connected to networks and have teams and, you know, when you're sort of-

On that note though, Brad Bradford did call out Olivia for this, what didn't he call it again? The NDP machine behind her. And are you a member of the NDP machine there, Richard? Well, I mean, not, I mean, I guess, I don't know. You and Andrew Cash? Who else is in that? The Bernica ladies?

Yeah, yeah. I don't know if I've renewed my membership card actually, but I know plenty of people in the NDP machine. And yeah, it's great. I mean, I'm happy that there's a progressive machine. I mean, that's the thing. It's like people who, you know, there's this sort of weird stigma in some circles

about the NDP. If you actually hang out, like, oh, they're really nice, inclusive people. Do you think that comes from the Bob Ray days? Because I personally find it interesting that when they talk provincially, they talk about two options.

And, you know, we're old enough to remember. I remember Bob Ray as premier. But it's interesting how there's some consensus in this province where, okay, that won't happen again. So it's going to be liberal or PC. And we'll just take, you know. Because Bob Ray was actually great. I mean, I know people didn't like Ray days, but wasn't it better than getting laid off like i don't know there's some real what did the real

static saying it's a bad time to be poor that was the the mike harris song i think but always but but yeah so i i was smart and interesting and you know he did a lot of great stuff so i i really like bob very smart guy yeah exactly and that for me, that's what you want. I want a smart, compassionate person. You don't want a populist, you know, who doesn't like the academics. Yeah, exactly. No, you know, I want someone who's smart.

I want them, you know, like, but smart and has to be also compassionate. Because, you know, smart and evil, you know, we saw, you know, Mr. Harper, you know, because we don't really like that, right? But if they're smart and compassionate, that's great. I worked for a guy who loved Stephen Harper. So did I.

And, yeah, big Stephen Harper booster. Yeah, a lot of people like him. You know, whatever. Well, he won a couple of majorities, so clearly. But, you know, Doug Ford's won a couple of majorities too. So clearly somebody wants them to be their provincial leader. A certain percentage of people. That's the thing.

Once again, we're first past the posting. Like 35%. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Richard, before you say goodbye, I don't want you to be biking home and think, oh damn, I really wanted to say this or I wanted to share this story.

So this is your opportunity. Before I play a song from Shakespeare, and you don't have to come up with anything, but i'm giving you the opportunity so that you don't have that moment when you're biking home and say hot damn i wanted to tell him about blah blah blah yeah okay well darn because i you know like what are you up to now maybe okay share with us what are you up to now what are the shuffle demons up to now what's richard underhill up to shuffle demons still going strong people often go i wonder that we're still going strong. We are.

Demon Stitch Winston has been, I was the driving force in the early days, booking, getting media attention, all that stuff. There's a great Duke Ellington book called Music is My Mistress, and the guys used to say about me, media is my mistress, because I'd be so excited by a review or a mention but it's only

because i love the band so much and i just wanted us to you know i wanted us to to get out there in the world and and and make an impact so stitch has been has taken over that role and he's been amazing we've toured the world before covid you know we've been all around the world we've been to india three times china three times japan new zealand australia three times south korea everywhere so he's been amazing in that end and uh he just had us playing at kerner hall which was fantastic and great acoustics there great acoustics we played with a guy called scratch bastard yeah scratch he's great he really fit in well with the band and uh you know maybe we'll convince him to do something again

because that was great. So we're working on a new album because Stitch also gets money to make albums. He's amazing. He gets grants all the time. So we're probably available in September. Knowing how to play the grant game, that's everything in this country.

Yes, and this reminds me, this feels very close because I do a little grant workshop for Humber College music business students in the summer. Is that South Campus or North? Yeah, South. Oh, yeah, you can throw a rock and hit it from there. Yeah, exactly.

So that's been interesting. And yeah, it definitely can be a game that's a little hard to learn, but once, you know, that really distills down to give them a great demo and give them like a reason to give you the money, you know, because it doesn't, you don't have to write a novel, but you have to have, you know,

you have to have an interesting thing that you're talking about. But do you ever worry about the devaluing, the undervaluing of arts in this, you know, the current landscape? Oh, gosh. You know? Yeah. I mean, we never made millions off our records, but you know,

we made something and, and, and now. Okay. So Shuffle Demons might not have made millions off their records, but you know, we talked about another busking band that did, right?

Because Barenaked Ladies did. Right. But they, they had a Billboard Hot 100 number one hit, and then they recorded a song for the most popular sitcom of all time. Sure. Sure. Yeah.

No, well, it's, I mean, and it's still possible to do things like that in this new climate. You just have to popular sitcom of all time. Sure, sure. Yeah, no, well, it's possible. I mean, and it's still possible to do things like that in this new climate. You just have to know how to do it. And I feel like I kind of, I really missed the Spotify game early on. And that, you know, getting that, because I always thought it was a bit jive, you know, but getting that traction early.

Now, you know, it turns out, sure, it's still what it is and full of a lot of problems, but some people make a lot of money on it. Katie George, who was also on our bill at Kerner Hall, you know, does okay because she figured it out. Oh, because I rarely get that story, like unless you're, you know, the weekend. No, some of the jazz people have figured it out. There are some people who have figured it out and who do it,

but, you know, it takes a lot of work, right? It's like you've got to be posting on Spotify every day. You've got Instagram, I mean, every day. You know, it's not easy, but you can do it. On the flip side, it's nice that anyone anywhere in the world can hear your music. You know, because in the old days, that was a little more difficult. Right. So that's kind of fun.

Okay, so what's the next piece of new music we can uh consume from richard underhill well i've got one uh well it's basically in the form of shuffle demons if you want an actual piece of music you can buy so probably in around in september we have some gigs uh in mid-september at the um the jazz bistro and so the shuffle means we're playing there and hopefully debuting a new album. One of the songs that I'm working on just about laying down the vocals it's called Are You Really Real and it's about the effect of

AI on our lives. Sexy hot topic. Yeah and I used AI to write part of it too I'm sorry. I must disclose AI hosted this podcast that's why I couldn't come up with Doug and the Slugs. It's like...

Slug and the birds. Is that the Swedish chef? What was that? Yeah, it sounded like... Oh, is that... Have you seen that beer ad or Coke ad that AI came up with? No, but I saw Blue Jay's ad. Oh, you saw the Blue Jay's one.

Maybe you posted that. Oh, my God. I did see it. It was terrifying. And it was terrifying. So, I don't know. I'll keep my eye on these new AI overlords. But I'm going to keep doing my thing without any intelligence at all.

That's what I'm going to do, Richard. Now you're at our level. Thank you. Shuffle demons are a very important part of this city's musical fabric. And Spadina Bus is one of those jams where it takes me back to those days I was watching you know. Who is it? PJ Fresh Phil. I had him on the show recently and he broke into this imitation of

Jojo Chinto and then he did the Harold Hossein. He did Weather by Harold Hossein. Oh yeah, yeah. And in the background when he's doing this you can hear this high pitched squeal in the background and I think it might be the biggest belly laugh in the history of Toronto Mike. Like, I just, it tickled my funny bone so completely to talk about, you know.

And I would never do a Jojo Chinto or a Harold Hossain impression. But for some reason, when PJ Freshfield did it, it was very funny. And, yeah. So, I miss those days. And Spadina Bus takes me right back so thanks for this chat Richard. Thank you for having me on I feel really honoured to be on the podcast

and number 1276 You got it. Okay I'm going to mark that down I'll get you back here in 1276 episodes. Okay we'll see where we are from the moon and that brings us to the end of our episodes. Okay, we'll see where we are from the moon. And that brings us to the end of our

1,276th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. What are you? Richard, what are you? Just at Rich Underhill. At Rich Underhill. Yeah. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at

Great Lakes Beer. I've got some beer for you to take home with you, Richard. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. I've got lasagna for you. Mineris is at Mineris. You've got your wireless speaker. Recycle My Electronics are at EPRA underscore Canada. The Moment Lab are at

The Moment Lab and Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH. You've got your flashlight. I'll see you all. I've got to go quickly in real time to my calendar. I really should do this beforehand, but it's more exciting if I do it in real time. Who is next on Toronto Mic'd?

Oh, my goodness. That's right. We rescheduled this. Next on Toronto Mic'd is an original member of Soul to Soul who recorded Keep On Moving and other great jams like that.

Simon Law is on the program. I have for you an album. Okay, let me see this. Our latest. All In. There it is.

The Shuffle Demons. Yeah. Love it. Thank you so much. I forgot. I forgot to give it to you but now I have it. Well, you got it in

under the wire here. I got it in under the wire. Shuffle Demons at gmail.com if you want to book them for parties, bar mitzvahs, weddings. Send an email to shuffledemons at gmail.com. See you all in a couple of days with Simon Law on Toronto Mic'd. Mike. And I've seen the sun go down on Shakalaka But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true