Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Rick Vaive: Toronto Mike'd #790

Episode Date: January 25, 2021

Mike chats with Rick Vaive about being named captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs at the age of 22, scoring 50 goals in a season three times, playing during the dysfunctional Harold Ballard era, having the "C" ripped from his chest, coaching the Mississauga Ice Dogs to three wins under a meddling Don Cherry, his battles with alcoholism and why his number 22 hasn't yet been hoisted to the rafters at Scotiabank Arena.

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Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos and decals for your home and your business. Ridley Funeral Home Pillars of the community since 1921 and Patrons like you. Visit Patreon.com slash Toronto Mike to become one today. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is number 22, Rick

Vive. Welcome, Rick. I'm glad to be here, Mike. How are things? Things are good. This is quite the honour for me. So I really appreciate you taking some time because when I look back at my life with my team, the Toronto Maple Leafs, I believe it's fair to say you were my very first favourite Toronto Maple Leaf. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. You must have been a young fella back then. Yeah, yeah. Well, in person, I look much, much older.

So I could surprise you here. I was chatting this morning with my buddy, Gare Joyce. We're actually working on this very cool play. It's called Every Spring, A Parade Down Yonge Street. It's this, obviously, this fictional and fantastical world where the Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup every single year. So it's obviously fiction. But he mentioned to me, he used to see you and your wife

shooting hoops at Ryerson, and he said your wife was excellent. Do you have any memories of this oh yeah for sure she actually played for basketball at college at Acadia and Brandon University and played for the Canadian women's junior national team so I wasn wasn't going to beat her. We're just out having fun. He says, yeah, she had quite the shot. So that's his memories of that.

Now, Rick, right off the top, I'm going to let people know, most of what I'm going to chat with you about can be read in your fantastic new book. It's called Catch 22, My Battles in Hockey and Life. And I want to give kudos right off the top to you and FOTM Scott Morrison because it's a hell of a good book. I really enjoyed it, man. Well, thank you. And Scott, he did a heck of a job putting everything together. I mean, you know, we work closely to get all the facts correct and everything.

But at the end of the day, when you read it, it kind of just runs smoothly from start to finish. And so Scotty did a fantastic job of putting it all together. Scott's been on the program. I don't know if he gave you a warning or if he told you you should probably do this. But I'm glad that whatever he said to you, it worked because here you are. So thanks to Scott Morrison for that. So when I look back, though, at like the 1980s Leafs, and we'll talk about Harold Ballard in a moment.

But when I look back, there were a lot of bad trades. But this trade that brings you to Toronto from Vancouver most definitely is an excellent trade for the blue and white. Could you tell us a little bit about basically remind people, although everybody should grab this book and read the details in this book, but remind people how you end up in Toronto? Well, I guess first of all it's safe to say that builder lego and myself were not in

gary veal's good books i guess to put it uh nicely i guess and uh you know billy was a fourth overall pick the year before and then i was the fifth overall pick that year by Vancouver. And at that point, Punch was punishing Darryl Sittler by moving his buddies out, and, of course, Tiger Williams being one of those. Right. You know, I don't know. I don't think Harry expected that we would go on

and do what we did in the National Hockey League. I think he was thinking that we were going to fail. But when you trade away a fourth and a fifth pick two consecutive years, you know, I always think you're making a big mistake because you haven't really given them an opportunity to see what they can do yet. And fortunately for Billy and I, that was the case. And, you know, we got there at a perfect time. And Punch just said, hey, you guys are going to play a lot.

You're going to play with good players. You're going to play together. Just go out and do your best. And, you know, that's what we did. And everything kind of worked out pretty good. Did Punch warn you that you were going to be surrounded by some great dysfunction? Well, we kind of knew what was going on. I mean, when you're playing in the league, you know what's going on all around the league.

And we had heard all that stuff about what was going on with him and Daryl and so on. But, you know, you get there and even though this stuff is kind of going on around you, it's kind of like, hey, you know, this is a fresh start for us, and we need to take advantage of it. Right. You know, we've been given this opportunity. Let's not let it, you know, slip away from us. So we kind of had to do the best job we could to ignore that stuff out there and just go out and do our job.

Was there a chip on the shoulder? I'm wondering, just basically on the premise that Vancouver clearly gave up on you far too soon. I mean, looking back, it's remarkable how quickly they essentially give up on a player. And just to remind those casual fans or those who don't remember or who haven't read the book yet, how old were you when you joined the Toronto Maple Leafs? I was 20. 20 years old. Yeah, I was in my first year in the NHL.

Wow. Which blew my mind when it happened. I was actually nervous because I thought, holy cow, I'm being traded already? Am I going to be able to play in this league? I knew I could play. It was just a matter of getting that opportunity. I was like, hopefully we get that in Toronto.

Sure enough, as soon as we got there, we were told we were going to, and they followed through. I always had a chip on my shoulder. I think people doubted me probably my whole life in certain things. So I was out to prove to anybody and everybody that I could do things that they didn't think I could do. Now, it's one thing to play in the NHL. It's another thing to excel in the NHL. And Rick, very early in your career, you're doing something no-mate belief had ever done before.

You're potting 50 goals a season. And you don't do it once. You've done it more than any other player in franchise history. You did it three times. I mean, that had to feel gratifying, how quickly you showed not only do I belong here, but look at this, and then 50-50-50. That's crazy.

Yeah, it was pretty good. I mean, I got there and I had a good finish of the year. I think I played 22 games that year. And then the next year I got 33 goals and thought, oh, okay, things are going better. And I think what really helped is I was able – I had the ability to block things out and, you know, not listen to the white noise, so to speak.

and not listen to the white noise, so to speak. So I was able to go out there and focus and play the way I was capable of playing without those distractions because I was able to block them out. And that, aside from that, playing with some good players. Playing with Billy, John Anderson, and Boreas Salming on the point on our power play. I mean, things all kind of fell into place. Now a quick question from a listener of the program. His name is Mike Gregotsky and he's got a, he's got a great question. It's such a great question. I didn't even think to ask it. Can you please,

well, Mike writes, can you ask him how he got number 22? Did he pick it or did the team decide on this number for him? So how did you end up with 22 on your back? Well, actually, I wore 22 in midget and then junior A in PEI, and then I had it in Sherbrooke. I fell in love with the number way back when I was a kid watching sports and seeing a lot of the good football players, baseball players.

And I love the way that 22 covered the whole back of the sweater. It just was better than a single digit in my mind. So, but when I got to Toronto, well, I didn't have it in Vancouver because an older player had it. And I got traded to Toronto. And of course, I got traded for Tiger or 22. So I had 12 right away because we were on the road. And then when I got back, I told them I wanted number 22.

And then, of course, it was like, well, are you sure you really want that? Because Tiger was a popular player here and everything else. I said, look, hey, I can handle it. Don't worry about it. That's the number I wore up until Vancouver. And I said, I'd like to have it. And they gave it to me. And I wore it with a lot of pride as I did the sweater itself and went out and did the best I could every day. Now, the book title, again, it's called Catch-22, and there's a number of good reasons why you called it Catch-22, but one of the great examples I read in the book was basically,

as you described, the Catch-22 of being offered the sea at the age of 22 years old. I mean, I have Rick Vibe on the program, but I'm going gonna tell your story and then you'll elaborate but you weren't you weren't ready to be captain at 22 but if you turn it down you knew you'd be out the door could you please elaborate on that like what's that like when they offer you the c and then and why did you find it to be a catch-22? Well, I mean, first and foremost, you know, I mean,

I think in most situations back then, you know, they would call you in perhaps to the GM's office or the president or whatever, and they would sit down and discuss it and say that we'd like you to be our captain. Of course, I'm 23

years old, and it didn't go down that way. It was just Harold Ballard came up to me and said, to be our captain. Of course, I'm 22 years old, and it didn't go down that way. It was just Harold Ballard came up to me and said, you're our captain. Wow. And I'm like, I couldn't even think. I was like, you know, I was honored, obviously. There's no question. But I'm like, oh, wow, I'm 22 years old. I said, I've only played two years in the league,

and I'm not sure I'm ready for this. But looking at it and looking at Harold, I said, I've only played two years in the league and I'm not sure I'm ready for this. But looking at it and looking at Harold, I thought, but if I turn him down, he's probably going to trade me. And I had already been traded already. I loved Toronto. Things were going good there. I was settled in and I didn't want to get traded, so I reluctantly said yes, but it didn't take me very long because I wasn't a guy that got up in the room and yelled and screamed or had these magical speeches for my teammates. I love to lead by example, so that's the way I approached it. Then we got a little bit younger a couple of years later and then it became a lot easier.

And I have Boreas sitting right beside me in the room. So if I did get up and say anything and anybody challenged it or anything, he stood right up for me. So that helped a ton. Did you keep in touch with Boreas Salming? Are you guys still friendly? Yeah. Did you keep in touch with Boris Salmin? Are you guys still friendly? Yeah, yeah. I see him, well, not this past year, obviously, but we haven't seen much in this last year, to be honest with you. But anyway, he usually comes over the Hockey Hall of Fame weekend

every year from Sweden with a group of people. And I always go down to the game to make sure that I get a chance to say hello to them. And we had him on. Mike Wilson and I, who have a podcast, Squid and the Ultimate News Fan, we had him on probably three or four months ago and had a good chance to chat with him then. And he looked great, as he always did. three or four months ago and had a good chance to chat with him then.

And he looked great, as he always did. He's a remarkable athlete, Boria. And even at his age, he looks like he almost could still play. I always wondered, now you're only 22 years old. Of course, you're putting up numbers we had never seen in this, on the Leafs before, you 50 goals a season but you're still 22 and you get you have the C on your chest because Harold Ballard just says you're captain and what are you going to say when you know you're given that opportunity what can you say you got to say yes I suppose but you may be at the bridge perhaps in hindsight

Salmin gets the C I always went so it was what was there any reason why Borsh Salmin who had been there a good long time and was a perennial all-star veteran defenseman, why he was never captain? Well, I know he was asked a couple of times and he turned

Harold down. But he knew that Harold wasn't going to trade him because for some reason, I know Harold didn't like the Russians he didn't typically like European players but for some reason he had a big heart for Boria and Boria knew he

wasn't going to get traded if he said no and because I remember years later when Matt Sundin was asked to be the captain he called Boria and Boria said, take it. He said it would be a mistake if you don't. And, you know, because it is a big honor. There's no question. And I think to this day, Boria probably does regret not taking it.

Very interesting. Because there's a missing link for me because I've always wondered why that never happened. And now we know the rest of the story, as they say. Fantastic. Because you have Salman there, veteran leader. I think he was there, I think, throughout the 80s. I don't know when he was. I know he ended up in Detroit, I want to say, but that might have been like 1990 or something like that. like 1990 or something like that. But this is all... Yeah, that was well after I had gone to Chicago and then I was in Buffalo, I think, when he ended up going to Detroit. So it would have been either late 80s or early 90s. Because at this point we're talking

where you're getting offered the C here. Sittler's been traded, Turnbull's gone. This is an extremely young team, and it's a young team without, there's no proven coach or GM at the helm to offer a steady hand. So that's why earlier I made the joke about the dysfunction because regardless

of the young talent, it wasn't a nurturing environment to kind of convert this young, raw talent into eventual Stanley Cup contenders. And that's unfortunate. It was. And it was very frustrating at times because it all came down to money.

Harold Ballard did not want to spend the money for a good general manager. He had ample opportunities to get guys from other teams that were very, very good general managers. And the same with coaching. He wouldn't pay enough to get a good coach in the NHL at that time. A lot of mistakes were made. Guys were brought in way too early, way before they were mature enough, either physically or mentally or both, to play in the NHL.

You know, back then, bringing in an 18-year-old and the way the game was played in the 80s was a very difficult thing for them to adjust to because it was a physical game back then. The life of a player was different back then than it is now. And, you know, the league is really young now, whereas before, I mean, in the 80s, there were still veterans around,

and they controlled what everybody did, so to speak. So, unfortunately, there was a lot of bad news made, and that was due to the fact that we had the lack of someone that could make those good decisions and send those guys back to junior hockey for a year or two or maybe the American League after that and I think I know Wendell and I talked one day uh we were at an event and we were eating together and I mentioned how great it must have been in 92 and 93 or whatever

it was when they went to the conference final and he said yeah he said it was incredible he said but we had far better team in 85 86 and 86 87 as far as talent but we didn't have the the right coaches or or management and I I thought are you nuts like you gotta be crazy and I went back and I looked at the rosters and I said you know what he's absolutely right wow. We did have really good players and good young players, but those guys should have went back to junior. And then a year or two later, they would have been that much better and we would have been better as a team. Great point.

You know, there's something to be said about having a Pat Burns managing the team as opposed to, well, we just lost. So just yesterday, sadly, we, we lost George Armstrong and I, you know, he's,

he's one of those guys, you know, cause I think he took over for John Brophy, if I remember correctly, but one of those guys in the eighties, one of those kind of were Harold Ballard, just like he goes up to you and says, you're a captain now.

Hey, Gord Stelic has been on the show a couple of times and he famously kind of talks about how he ends up the youngest GM in NHL history in the same era. But this is just sort of par for the course when it comes to the Harold Ballard ownership period of Toronto Maple Leafs. Well, it was. You know, fortunately, I got to play those years in the gardens

and wear that maple leaf on my sweater. You know, I mean, I couldn't be prouder of that and what I accomplished there. But I'm not going to say it was easy because it was. It was a terrible time because of the ownership problems and everything else. And there was a lot of crap going on. And the sad part about it was, and I've always said, if you don't have thick skin, you can't survive in a place like Toronto or Montreal, somewhere like that.

You won't be able to make it. And unfortunately, again, these young guys being brought in at such a young age, a lot of them weren't able to handle it, along with being able to play in the league as well. So it's unfortunate. But you know what? What bothers me more than anything is that people want to forget about that decade. You know, and it's all because of one guy, Harold Ballard.

Right. So everybody wants to forget about the 80s when, you know, when everybody says that was the worst decade of Leaf history and so on and so forth. Well, if you look at the numbers, that doesn't really pan out. I mean, if you look at before this rebuild, they went 10 years making the playoffs once, I believe, in those 10 years. So it wasn't as bad as it was in those 10 years, but people want to forget about it because of one person. So that is what bothers me the most about the time that I spent in Toronto. That's a great point because as we speak now in 2021,

we are, I have to do a little math on this. Hold on. I think it's about 17 years since the Maple Leafs have won a playoff round. Like, right? 2004 against the Flyers. I think, no, was it the first? I think we beat Ottawa in the first round.

And Pat Quinn was the coach of that team. 2004, 2021, if that math works. That's where we're speaking now. That's how long it's been since the Leafs have won a playoff round. Yeah, and I know when I played there, we went to the second round twice. Right. And then I know, well, I don't know what happened. Actually, I can't even remember what they did the rest of the eighties,

but then the early nineties, of course, they went on those runs to the conference final, not once, but twice. But, you know, we got to the second round, but we, in those years where we got to the second round and possibly had a chance to get to the conference finals, or maybe even the Stanley cup finals, we never made a move at the deadline that put us over the hump. And we could have really used that on the ice and mentally as well, knowing that there was someone up there that could pull the trigger

on something that was going to help us. We didn't have that, unfortunately. Now, in a moment, I'm going to get back to a point you made earlier about Harold Ballard not wanting to spend the money. But I'm going to ask you real quick, because you mentioned the fact that the Leafs team you were on got into the second round a couple of times. And I distinctly remember the seven-game series against the Blues. So St. Louis in the second round went to game seven,

and you did not dress for Game 7. I'm wondering is it simply that you just weren't healthy enough to play that game? Do you have any regrets? Do you think maybe you should have played anyway? I'm curious looking back at that Game 7 against the Blues.

There's no way I could have played. I had torn cartilage in my ribs. I mean, I cried. I went out for the warm-up, and the doctors wouldn't freeze it. It was too risky. You know, and I was disappointed more than anybody that I couldn't play. And, you know, just one of those things where there was just no way I would have been a useless team that night because there's no way

I could have played the game that I was capable of playing with the rib problem that I had. Another listener named Jerry the Garbage Man, which I always think is a great handle for somebody. Jerry the Garbage Man. And this ties into something I read in the book as well, which I think has kind of shed some light on this Harold Ballard era, if you will.

But his question is very simply this. Is T.C. Puck a good boy? Well, actually, he was. He was a beautiful dog. He was a good dog. I don't believe he belonged in our team pictures. Okay, so that's what I was reading in the book. So, yeah, tell us, basically.

So this is Harold Ballard's dog, TC Puck. And basically, he had to be in the team pictures. Yeah. They had a guy in the back. His name was... They called him, coincidentally, Johnny the Dog Walker, or Tommy the Dog Walker. His name was...

Sorry. And he used to walk Harold's dog all the time. Harold didn't walk the dog, of course. But he had to be in the picture. And I remember the one time I'd taken a team pitcher and it took a while, I don't know what it was

we sat there for quite some time before they raised everybody properly it took a lot longer than it normally does and then when the pitcher was over everybody was getting up and starting to move around because we were going to be practicing and all of a sudden

G.C. Puck tried to get up and he yelled. And well, guess what was frozen in the ice? Poor T.C. Puck. And so Tommy the dog walker came out with the hot water and the scraper and everything and had to help the dog get his, you know what, off the ice. And it was quite hilarious hilarious but nobody wanted to laugh because it was Harold's dog and if he saw you laughing

who knows what he might have done Wow okay let's talk money for a moment here and you were very you know Frank very honest in this book about you know your compensation so I find this remarkable because I had no clue in the 80s i had no clue

what players were making i kind of missed those days by the way you know players suited up for your team and you rooted for them and you didn't have any thoughts at all about whether they were overpaid underpaid like this didn't mean and i kind of missed those good old days but can you share with us when you get to toronto as a young well you're 20 years old when you get to Toronto, what were you making a season for playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs? Well, that was my contract from Vancouver that carried

over. It was a four-year deal. There was no three-year entry-level deals back then. They could have signed it whenever they wanted. They could have signed it for 15 years if they wanted to. But I ended up with a four-year deal at 60 60 65 70 okay and i had a signing bonus i think it was a 100 000 or 110 but it was spaced over i got a certain amount every 40 games that I played. So it was basically spaced out over two and a half years, I think it was. And so that was what I made my first contract. And then the most I ever made

was 350. Okay. But but Harold Ballard, sorry, go ahead, please. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, when I compare that to the normal individual, I made really good money. I just didn't have someone to grab me by the throat and tell me what to do to save it. And I'm pretty sure that, I mean, I can't say for certain. I do know that guys like Mike Bossy were making like $600, $700. There was other guys in the league making, think borya was up around that number marcel deon was in the 800 range and so there's no question that i think for the most part we were all underpaid on our team based on what guys on other teams were making now, so your last year of that four-year deal

that carried over from Vancouver, you said $70,000. Is that at least as US dollars? I can't even remember if that made a difference back then. No, that was Canadian. If you played in Canada, you made Canadian. And then if you got traded to the US, it would switch over to US money. It would be the U.S., it would switch over to U.S. money.

It would be the same amount, but it would become U.S. currency. And of course, you know, early in the 80s, the dollar was pretty close, but then it started to get a little bit wider. I remember when I got to Chicago, I got my first check

and I think I was clearing, we only got like 12 or 13 or 12 and a half checks a year every two weeks and uh I was clearing a little over 11 I think thousand for every two weeks and when I got to Chicago I got my first check and I looked at it I said I brought one into the office and I think you made a mistake they said what said, what do you mean? And I said, well, I mean, this can't be right. Like I was clearing over 16. And that was because of the tax structure.

But the U.S. dollar didn't even figure into it. It was just a matter of the difference in the taxes. And I was like, wow. So playing in the U.S. back then was a big benefit because not only were you making U.S. dollars if you were a Canadian citizen, you could always go back and make more money with the exchange, but you were paying a lot less in taxes. but just to set the table of this because i love the detail you shared in your book about this where you're making 70 000 and you'll correct me but you're coming off was it uh was it back to back years scoring 50 goals or were you like you basically you're going harold ballard has to you know negotiate with you i suppose and you're looking for a significant raise because you're now a 50 goal scorer for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

That's worth a lot more than $70,000, even in the mid-80s. Can you tell us about that experience? Well, that one was... Put it this way. We were pretty happy with what we got. But again, you brought it up. It was the fact that we didn't know what guys around the league were making. And I remember in 87, we were trying to get that in our CDA, but Al Eagleson was in charge. So there's no way we're going to get that because he was in bed with the owners.

So we didn't know what anybody else was making. And I think I went from 70 and then I think it was actually after my fourth year because I scored three 50 goal scenes in a row, right? Probably was well underpaid, but I think I went through about, if I'm not mistaken, it was somewhere close to 200, about one 80 or one 90. And then it went up a little bit. And it was another three year-year deal and uh or four yeah three-year deal and uh so i think it was like 180 190 210 or something like that you know which still probably was well below what other guys that like if you look at those three years

it was only two guys in the league that scored more goals, and that was Wayne Gretzky and Mike Voss. I'm pretty sure that both of them were making $600,000, $800,000 somewhere in that range. Yes, I probably should have been paid a lot more, but not knowing what everybody was making, that was

a big raise. Right. Well, you more than doubled your salary, so it all depends on your perspective. You're right. And you have no idea what other comparable players are bringing in. Now, just before I know it's, I'm sorry for dwelling so much in the Harold Ballard years,

but I really do think this is an absolutely like not in a great way or anything, but a spectacular period in Toronto sports history where, you know, just these, the stories I hear, like I said, I'd have over,

you know, I'll have Gord Stelic over and I'll literally like turn on his microphone. This is pre COVID when he could sit here at the table with me. And I turn on his microphone and just say, please bury me in Harold Ballard stories. And then I would just shut up for two hours and like, just go. So a question coming in from Sean on Twitter, Sean,

who's a listener of the program just says, Hey Mike, have him tell his best Harold Ballard story. Do you have a good Harold Ballard story in the holster there you can whip out for us? Oh boy. Which one? All of them here. I'll cancel my next appointment. I think the best one is, you know,

Harold was around the room on practice days a lot, even on game days in the mornings, because he always got his legs massaged by our trainer. And I mean, if you wanted any medical attention, you had to wait until he was done with Harold. Harold had the bad circulation from the diabetes and everything else anyway somebody had uh it was one of the old tricks in the book that someone would put baby powder in the hair dryer and after practice when

guys were showering whoever was a poor uh guy that grabbed that particular hair dryer would get baby powder all over their hair, face, everywhere. Well, it happened that that day somebody did it, and Harold had finished getting his legs massaged, and we were already on the ice. He goes in for a shower, and he used that hair dryer. And when we came off the ice,old was still in the room and everybody was like oh like something happened and he started laughing and he goes i don't know who did it but he said that was pretty darn funny that was a good trick and he was actually you know he he thought it was pretty good so so it was kind of funny but at the same time everybody

was nervous for a few seconds here until he you know said that was a real good one and uh said i don't know who did it i don't want to know but it was really really funny as hell man oh my gosh and uh here's a i like this question too this is by a gentleman named sid i don't think it's syd Crosby I think it's another Sid but he says in fact he pays homage to the late great Larry King who we also lost this past week he says possible Larry King

curiosity question for Rick 5 when he played it was in the era of no advertising on the boards or ice would the excessive advertising on the boards and ice today have had any effect on him as players? Are you even aware of that?

So that's a curiosity question from Sid. What would you say to that? No, I don't think, and I played a lot of alumni games, and we had some outdoor games during, like alumni games before the Leafs would play at BMO and in Detroit and that sort of thing. No, I don't think it would have made a difference whatsoever, because like I said, I had the ability to block other things out that were a lot louder than seeing something on the board. So I don't think that would have affected me whatsoever.

You're a great Canadian, Rick. I hope you have affected me whatsoever. You're a great Canadian, Rick. I hope you're aware of that. You're a great Canadian. But that's all building. Of course, you know this already. Because only great, you know, you wrote a book about it, of course. But you were friends with a couple of great Canadians. I'm going to ask you just about a couple of people.

Could you tell us a little bit about how you became so close with Anne-Marie and John Candy? Well, Anne Marie, I lived in Amherst, Nova Scotia for three years before I moved to PEI. And I never met Anne during that time. But then Wayne Gretzky had a tennis tournament in Brantford in the year, in the 80s, or for I don't know how many years it was. And he always had celebrities of different varieties come in for the tennis tournament. And Anne-Marie, and it was doubled. And Anne-Marie asked that I could, if I could be her partner in the tournament because I was from the Merritt Times and I think

she knew I lived in Amherst Nova Scotia which is not far from Spring Hill where she grew up right and uh so anyway we we played doubles for that tournament for a couple of days and we had a lot of time to talk together and uh she was a wonderful person. And I really admired how she handled herself with all the fame that she had back then and being from, you know, a very small town like I was and how she handled it. And very, very graceful. So you played tennis with her, though, but have you ever golfed with her? No, I never played golf with her. I played tennis with her as her partner and uh it was it was a blast it really was we we never i think we won one match i don't think

i don't know if we won anymore because i wasn't the greatest tennis player in the world um and i'm not sure ann was was any better than i was but uh so we didn't do very well, but that didn't matter. It was a charity tournament to raise money for charity and he got to play with Ann Murray. What more could you ask for? If you ever do end up on the golf course of Ann Murray, don't let her hustle you.

I hear she's our Tiger Woods here. She's pretty damn good. So just a little warning for you. She's excellent. I never worry She's pretty damn good. Just a little warning for you. She's excellent. I never worry on the golf course because I can handle myself around the court, too. So I'm not worried about that. That's good to hear. All right.

Tell me about the late, great John Candy. There's a guy I miss, man. Oh, he was great. Yeah, John was a great guy. Yeah, John was a great guy. And I actually met John at Second City, where he was doing Second City in Toronto. And somebody introduced us. Someone said, do you want to come back and meet the cast?

And we did. We met up with Mike. And then later on, we started getting together for dinners and lunches and so on. And so I got to meet his wife and everything. And then we were playing in L.A. one time. And I remember I was in the shower after the game. And I guess John walked in the room and everybody was sitting there looking, going like, wow, it's John Candy. And he said, of course, my nickname is Squid. And he goes, where's Squid and everybody's looking and going like uh he's in the shower because I was telling him to hurry up

because we were going up to the form club after the game in LA and uh so we I came out there was John he goes hey come on, hurry up. Like, what are you waiting for? I said, relax, John. We've got all night. Don't worry about it. And I said, I just played hockey. Don't forget.

He goes, yeah, I know, but he said, let's go. So anyway, I picked it up a little bit, and we went upstairs and had a few drinks. And I think, if I'm not mistaken, that might have been the last time I actually sat down with him and talked with him as well. Yeah, we lost him way too soon. Yeah, way too soon. Anyway, I do believe that might have been the last.

If it wasn't, there might have been one other time back in Toronto, but that might have been the last time that I spoke with him and sat down with him. Okay, so that's, yeah, terrible, terrible. But let me ask you about the big news. I used to get the Toronto Star delivered to the home while my parents did, and then I would

read it. I always read the sports section first, and I followed this drama like this might as well have been Bay of Pigs or whatever. You name a big news event. I thought this was the biggest thing ever when they stripped the sea off Rick Vives jersey. Like I always envisioned it like somebody comes up and literally rips it off your chest. This is how I pictured in my mind. Can you, in fact, shout out to Will who wrote, can't wait for his take on losing the C, Toronto Mike style, hashtag real talk. What happened that resulted in you losing the captaincy?

Well, it started on a Thursday night. We got into Minnesota Thursday, and we were playing there Saturday afternoon, I believe it was. But Quebec was in town that night and my old roommate and line mate, John Anderson was playing for the Northeast. So I got a hold, I saw him before he headed over to the rink and we were going to meet up out there and get caught up and everything because I hadn't seen him you know probably in about six months or eight months or maybe even longer and uh anyway so we went out and for some reason we had a seven o'clock practice the next day I came home uh I was home it wasn't real late I mean it was around 1 30. uh did i have a lot to drink yes but um

anyway in the morning greg carrion was my roommate he woke me up and i sat up on the bed and he goes are you good now you ready and i said yeah and uh you know lo and behold i kind of put my head on the pillow i said i'll catch another five or ten minutes and then of course I fell asleep and didn't wake up and uh I remember Jerry and well Dan first came to the room and tore a strip off me and uh and then uh Jerry and him met with me and they just told me that uh I was no longer the captain. I didn't think the punishment fit the crime, so to speak, as you say in movies or anything. It was on me. It wasn't on anybody else. But Rick, isolated incident? This wasn't a trend? This was a one-time

slept-in and missed a practice? Yeah, it was a one-time thing. It was the first time since I've been there that I've been late for anything. Well, Rick, I'm pissed off now. This is 2021, and I'm so angry right now because that's part of the dysfunction that you were unfortunate enough to have to play in. That makes no sense at all,

why you would strip somebody of their captaincy for one one isolated human error instance like that well and you know god rest his soul damn lonely i i i did like dan but dan was under the gun because he was told to lay off the young guys so dan had a pretty good temper and he had to take his anger out on somebody and it was usually us guys the older guys well when i say older that was we were 25 26 right i was gonna say exactly old old guys but i you know what i expected a coach to do and i think mostly a lot of the coaches in the nhl would have done was said he's sick

and then come back to the hotel right sit me down and say listen I got your back today I stood up for you as far as everybody knows you're sick but if this happens again I'm not going to have your back right and I think if anything that would make you respect them more and play a little bit harder for them. I don't know if I could have played any harder than they already did, but I probably would

have gained a lot more respect for Dan had he done that. But he didn't, and he went to the general manager and then got back to Harold and collectively they made that decision. Well, here we are years later. You seem to have forgiven and moved on. Now maybe I should do the same?

Is that what we're learning here today? Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know what? We're not perfect as what I describe in the book about my life and everything and we make mistakes there's hurdles that we need to get over sometimes and doors that are shut and and we got to open them and we got to you know you got to move on and you know i i was very lucky that i was able to overcome not once but twice the alcohol problem. And I feel very fortunate that I was able to do that.

And that gave me a lot of different perspective in looking at things. There's no sense in harboring any ill will or any against anybody for something that happened even a week ago. That's an excellent attitude, if you will. anybody for something that happened even a week ago, you know, even a week ago. That's an excellent, excellent attitude, if you will. And attitude is everything. But let's touch on those points you mentioned with the alcohol, because this is a theme in the book. Maybe share with us, well, I guess my first question is, how long has it been since you've had an alcoholic beverage?

Well, this time now, it's a little over nine years now. Good for you, Rick. Good for you. Ten years. Good for you. First time around, I was 35, and it was after my first year of coaching, and I had a bad incident one night. I mean, I just drank.

My problem was once I started, I couldn't stop. And that night, I don't remember how I got back to my hotel room. We lost in the playoffs, and I was with the players. And anyway, we got home the next day, and I just thought, you know what? Before I lose everything, this has to stop. So I quit on my own. It was almost 15 years. And I don't want to get into a lot of details about how it happened but it happened and then it was only a little over two years that I

drank so basically 26 years I drank a little over about two years and three months and so I consider myself pretty lucky that i was able to do that yeah and again congratulations uh almost 10 years of sobriety uh keep it going man that's that's great news yeah no i feel good about it and i don't even think about it anymore i don't you know golfing all summer with my buddies. They would all, sometimes we'd have lunch and, you know, they would order pitchers of beer and everything. And I'd get my ginger ale. Like I don't even, it doesn't, you know what I mean?

I'm sitting there and I'm looking at them. It doesn't even come into my mind that, boy, that looks good or anything like that. It's just kind of one of those things that I don't think about anymore. Excellent. A couple of thoughts that entered my head when you were telling the story just kind of one of those things that I don't think about anymore. Excellent. A couple of thoughts that entered my head when you were telling the story about losing your C because you slept in and missed that practice. 7 a.m. practice after a game, is that commonplace?

I don't know. I never played in the NHL, Rick, but that seems like cruel and unusual punishment. Yeah, we didn't play that night. Oh, right. You were with John anderson okay so here's the question uh how often did you eat at john anderson's the uh the burger joint oh quite a bit there was one in uh i lived in don mills and there was one on uh

oh gosh what's that i can't even remember the name of the street lawrence lawrence avenue there was one up up the road from me like probably i, I bet you it was only a mile, maybe a mile and a quarter from my house. So I ate there quite a bit. His burgers and souvakis were very, very good. Like legendary stuff. There's actually, and I have no idea who owns it now, but there is a John Anderson's in Mississauga still. Like unless it's closed down, you know, since the pandemic started. So there was that there's still one out there, at least, but man, they were kind of legendary, these John Anderson's.

They were, but the funny part about that is that John sold out through his partner, like, I think it was less than a year after they opened. See, in my mind. Go ahead. No, they had a falling out. And he sold his half to his partner because they had a falling out. And I guess he was also playing hockey with the Maple Leafs. Right. And maybe figured, you know, okay, you know what?

I can't do this. I can't do both. Right. And make it work. So he sold out. But they stayed open and they were still delicious. So I wasn't going to stop going. You know, he was just terribly underrated, in my humble opinion,

John Anderson. He was a hell of a player. I mean, you were one, he was two, as far as I was concerned, for a while there in the Leafs. So anyways, great player. I mean, you were one, he was two as far as I was concerned for a while there in the Leafs. So anyways, great player. But another player you mentioned. Yeah, John was. Yeah, sorry. John was a good player.

He was very fast. His speed was probably his biggest asset. Wasn't a big goal scorer, but he was able to get around guys quickly and make things happen. And, uh, you know, if he got the puck into someone else's hands or right hands and,

you know, he can make things happen, but he can also pass it pretty good too. But it wasn't, it wasn't a big goal scorer, John, which, uh,

I think frustrated them a little bit. Still. I still, I don't know. In my memory bank, he was good for, uh, 30 something goals.

Uh, I know it all depends on inflation, what that's worth, in my memory bank, he was good for 30-something goals. I know it all depends on inflation, what that's worth in the season. But it felt like a good haul. Yeah, I think he was around the 30 mark most years. Maybe a couple of years, got over 30 and so on. But with his speed and everything, I always thought that he could have been a better goal scorer. But he just didn't have that knack, I guess, is the best way to put it. He had a lot of great attributes, but unfortunately, putting the puck in the net really wasn't one of his biggest ones.

Shout out to Murray, who's watching live on Facebook, who says that John Anderson's I'm thinking of is at Dixie and Dundas, he says, and he says the sign is still there. But he points out, yeah, he used to eat at the one at Weston and Lawrence. That was the John Anderson's of choice for Murray. So shout out to Murray. Live. Another name you mentioned, number seven.

Remember him very well that we lost far too soon, was Greg Tarian. So terrible that... Go ahead. Greg was not only my roommate, but he lived not that far away from us. And, you know, rather than complicating things, either he would pick me up or i would pick him up to go to games and then our wives would do the same and so that you know we'd each have a car to go home with right uh and we also shared like my wife and his wife would sit together and then every other game or if circumstances were family come into town

then the one one of us would use the other two two tickets and uh and you had the ability to buy tickets as well if family came into town and everything but that's all we got was two tickets and uh greg went through some battles himself at the end and I know his wife called me up there wasn't that long but maybe maybe about eight months or a year before he passed away and I sat with him until 2 o'clock in the morning and tried to talk to him. He was in a bad place in his life and it didn't change, unfortunately. She was very worried about him

and I went up there a couple of times to see him. And then, of course, he passed away and I went up for the funeral. Yeah, it was very, very difficult. I tried to help him and continue to drink very, very heavily and wouldn't seek help for, well, he had anxiety problems and he wouldn't get help. And that was very unfortunate.

Yeah, I'm sorry for your loss, Rick. That's way too soon for Greg there. Okay, now I'm going to... It was a tough one. Yeah, it was a tough one. Now, I want to, obviously I need to ask you about Don Cherry, but first I just want to

finish up with the questions from listeners because Toronto Resident wants to know, which player was your toughest opponent? Gosh, I'd like to say none of them, but that would be a lie. You know what, I can't really point out one player in particular. The only guy that I – and I don't say this because it was hard. Well, it was hard to play against because we both played against each other so many times every year was Brian Sutter at St. Louis.

And the Sutters were a pretty tough group, all the boys. Brian and I, he played left wing, of course. I played right. We lined up together all night long. He was on the ice when I was on the ice. We were slashing, hacking, whacking, grabbing, you name it.

We never had a fight. The whole time I played against him. Boy, oh boy, I'll tell you, he was a son of a bitch to play against because it was hard to get by him. Like, I mean, you had to watch him. Well, he didn't watch him. He just had to play the same way as he did. And so I did.

And, you know, it was just a battle every night that we played St. Louis. Wow. Now, you know, you did score 50 goals three times. You know, no Leaf has done that since. You still have the record for most goals in a season with 54. Austin hasn't yet got that one. And so long as we have these shortened seasons, I feel like you're safe, right?

So, actually, that's a good question. Would you be happy to see Austin Matthews score his 55th goal, or would any part of you say, oh, that's too bad I'm leaving the Leafs record book? I'm curious. You know what? I mean, I know that

it's an old cliche, but records aren't meant to be broken, and I'm assuming that there is going to be a day where that will be surpassed, but I mean, last year, Austin had an opportunity to do that. I know he would have got the 50 with 12 games left. You know, he still needed seven to tie and eight to break it, which in 12 games is not an easy task. But he's a guy that could do it very easily.

I mean, he can go and get four easily in a game as he did in his first NHL game, which is a pretty big accomplishment. Right. And I felt bad for the kid that, and I call him a kid because I'm 47 years older than he is, but well, actually maybe 39 years older than he is but um uh well actually maybe 39 years old now but anyway it would have been you know it was a pandemic that took that opportunity away from it was if it was an injury

okay you know what that's part of the game i understand that you know and i i wouldn't have felt bad for him but i did feel bad for him because it was not anything that he did that took that opportunity away from him and uh and i told him as much uh uh the banquet i said you know uh the blue and white banquet but you know again uh another 56 game season with the likelihood of getting 55 or 54 is pretty slim. I mean, he could do it. He's not in the season. He's a player that's capable of doing it in the way they play and the guys he plays with.

It could happen, but I doubt it. I'm looking at probably next season where we might see a typical NHL season of 82 games, maybe starting in late October or middle of October rather than early October. But I would think that if anybody's going to do it, he'd be the guy to do it. Yeah, and I love Austin Matthews, and I wish him nothing but success. But I do like seeing number 22, Rick vibe in that Leafs record book. There's something nice about that.

So let's maybe a little bit. I like it. I like it too. You know, but you know, the funny thing is, is it's a great honor to have, you know,

the longer it goes, the bigger it is. Right. You know, but you know, if it happens, it happens. And, you know the longer it goes the bigger it is right um you know but you know if it happens it happens and you know i'd rather see a guy that can do it who's a natural you know very very good goal scorer than some guy that just had a fluke here you know and happened to just catch a good year and play with two great players and, and, you know, and then never get close to 50 again,

but he's a guy that, you know, definitely has, he has unbelievable skills. I mean, it's incredible, but you know, it's a different era of two where they work 11 months a year and they have

skilled coaches, skating coaches, like you name it. Right. It's at their disposal. So in your playing time, is this an era when you would sort of come to training camp to get back in shape as opposed to the new norm,

which has been for a while now, but where you come to camp in shape? No, I would say that was probably a little bit before my time. We didn't do as much as they do now. Um, no, I would say that was probably a little bit before my time. We didn't do as much as they do now, but, but, you know, in July, you know, we'd start working out a little bit, riding the bike, doing things like that. August, we'd be skating Monday to Friday, uh, shit playing shitty every, every single day. And then even in early September, but don't forget, we had like a two and a half, three

week training camp before we even played an exhibition game. Right. And, you know, we had two a day practices that lasted two hours each practice. You know, and we would, you know, play, play a inner squad game of some sort. Well, usually there was 80 guys at our camp. So there was four teams and they would And you would play like a tournament. So every morning and every afternoon you'd play shimmy.

Not shimmy, I shouldn't say, but you'd play a game. Like a scrimmage? Then you would skate for half an hour, 40 minutes after that. Then you'd do the same thing in the afternoon. And so our camps were a little bit different. And now, I mean, they better be in shape when you get there because they play exhibition games three days later. And, you know, if you want to make the team or not,

it's all about what you did in the summer. And if you put in the work you needed to in order to make yourself successful, then you're going to make the hockey club. If you didn't, you're not. Are you surprised at all at how salaries have increased in the last 30, 40 years? I mean, we talked earlier in this podcast, we talked about how you were making like $70,000 a year and then you masterfully negotiated yourself to like 180, let's say, for, you know, for a guy who scored 50 goals

for the blue and white. Like, obviously, we know what that's worth today. And it's worth, you know, north of 10 million a year. Are you at all surprised that the work you guys did kind of is benefiting this generation of hockey players? not surprised maybe, but no, I'm not. Right. I'm not surprised at all. I mean, you know, first of all, they removed a cancer and that was Eagleson. Right. It was in the back pocket of all the owners. And I mean, I sat on the committee one year and we were negotiating and he would always, it's funny because I didn't realize it until

we started having these lockouts and that sort of thing and all these different guys that were the head of the player association and I would show them going into hotels and going into bargaining and stuff like that

and there would be like eight current players walking in with the guy, whether it be fair or guys before him. What the heck's going on here? That's strange because we never went. It was just Al. He'd leave the room and come back a few hours later and say, no, they're not giving you that.

This is what they're going to give you. That's it. So the owners controlled everything back then because they controlled Ali Eagles and they also controlled us. So I'm not surprised that when things opened up after he was taken out. And then you're got to look at the revenues. The revenues have grown. Say what you want about Gary Bettman. I know sometimes he comes across

whatever, a little cocky or arrogant sometimes and people boo him and everything else, but look what he has done, not just for the owners, but for the players as well um i mean i know he works for the owners but i mean the revenues have gone up so much it's incredible and uh i had i you know i'm not bitter at all i don't harbor any things like that uh but

some guys do that are my age or a little older and I had a player that I played with who was a little older than I am and he said to me one day you know how the hell can they play that pay that McDavid 12 and a half million dollars and I said well I said let me tell you, probably two-thirds of the buildings on most nights, probably two-thirds of their home games have 6,000 to 8,000 empty seats. But when McDavid or Ovechkin or Crosby or Matthews or whoever, the stars go into the building, those are sold for that game. Right.

And how many of those guys' sweaters have they sold? Not to mention that Conor McDavid might be the best player in the league right now. And, you know, he's driving up the revenues by being so good, and he deserves to be paid that. And so do all the other guys that are making the $11 million. Those guys generate revenue for the league and for the owners and for the players.

Absolutely. Now, I'm closing this podcast with the trillion-dollar question. So I'm going to hold on to that question because I want to ask you before we get to that final question, can you share with us sort of the story of your, your relationship with Don Cherry

and these infamous run-ins with Grapes? Well, well, first of all, let me say that that is one record that I think I will have for eternity. And that is the least amount of wins in a season of three. I don't think anybody's capable of pulling that off.

That's tough to do. Unless they really, really can't. But, you know, I don't believe that everything was because of me, obviously. And he meddled quite a bit. We had arguments. And then he left messages on my machine after games when he knew I had already left my office. And I would hear them in the morning. You know, but I learned a lot from that year, too, like I did from every other year that I played and that I coached.

And, you know, we didn't have a very good team, point blank. Right. And we made a bad trade, Nayses, Betza, the man of the trade. And the funny thing was I turned them down twice. And then the third time I said, okay, listen, if it's in my contract that I have to have a say in all moves, whether it be the draft, trades, you name it, I will come. And so it was in my contract, but he didn't obviously honor that. Because when Spetsnaz demanded the trade, it came down to Windsor and Sarnia.

And Sarnia were offering a far better trade, which would have made us a better team. Wouldn't have gotten us to the playoffs, but it would have made us a better team instantly with the three players we were getting from them. We had a meeting. I went home, and we had decided that the Sarnia deal was the one we were going to make. Our head scout lived outside of Windsor. He was a good friend of Don's. And I can't remember his name.

I came in the next day and they said, hey, the guys, we made the deal. And I said, okay, when are the guys from Sarnia getting here? And he said, well, we didn't make the trade with Sarnia. We made the trade with Winter, and I said, what? Anyway, so I didn't get a say in what I was supposed to, because we agreed when I left there, everybody in the room, that we were going to make the deal with Sarnia. So that really kind of really aggravated me,

and that set the tone for the rest of the year. That was 15 games in the season. But I will say that the kids were great. They worked extremely hard. They did the best they possibly could. And we just weren't good enough. They didn't drop as good as maybe they should have. They made bad trades before I had gotten there.

They made bad trades when I was there. And, you know what I mean? But I give the kids that I had in Mississauga that year a lot of credit because they worked their tails off. Now, you know, you joke about, because just to tell, the details here. So this is the 2000 and 2001 that, that season, the Mississauga ice dogs in the OHL and your official team record that year was three wins, 56 losses and seven ties, which I think that's

like an 11%, uh, win percentage, which is not very good, but here's the thing, Rick. Oh, thank you. Yeah, but here's the thing. It's tied. I believe it's tied for the worst record of all time, because in 1995-96, the London Knights

also only won... What was that again? 11? I don't know. How many wins was that again, 11? I don't know. How many wins was that again? Three. Yeah, so apparently there was one other OHL season with three wins. Yeah, so you're tied in that record book.

But obviously Don Cherry, and it sounds like Don Cherry hired Rick Five to coach a team and didn't let you, didn't, you know, he delegated the coaching role to you, but like you said, he meddled and interfered and didn't give you, didn't, you know, he delegated the coaching role to you, but, uh, like you said, he meddled and interfered and didn't give you the, uh, you know, so it's not on you, Rick, you know, you, again, just like in the eighties with the Harold Ballard dysfunction, uh, that you were set up to fail, not a very good team and meddling owner, just an unfortunate, but again, to put a bow on the Don Cherry thing, uh, did you have any relationship of Don Cherry after that firing?

Yeah, I mean, well, I ran into Don at a lot of events. Obviously, we would show up at different charity events the same night and everything. You know what, I just, you know what, I just go up to him and say, hey, Don, how you doing? Like, I, the way he treated me was despicable, in my opinion. And what he did to me after he fired me, which is all in the book, I believe, everything that transpired. Right. everything that transpired right and uh you know but me going on my way to say anything negative to him where does that get me and the ironic thing about it is my coaching record before that was

pretty darn good right i mean it was over close to 600, I believe, in my, what was it, six, seven professional seasons as a head coach in the ECHL and the American League. Well, the funny thing is, after that year, I put my resume in for probably, I'd say, 15 to 30 jobs every year for about six, seven years and never, ever got another interview. So it makes you wonder if he ever had anything to do with that. I don't know. Maybe you were blackmailed. I don't know if he could have. Yeah, I don't know if he had enough power or range to get up to that level.

Pretty influential man in hockey. A pretty influential man in hockey. A pretty influential man for many years. He definitely could. Yeah, I guess. That's terrible. Maybe he did have something to do with it. It was unfortunate because I loved coaching and I was good at it. I'm not afraid to say that.

I was a very good communicator. I was a very good judge of character. communicator. I was a very good judge of character. The first thing I did when I got into coaching was I bought five books on sports psychology and regular psychology, and I read the heck out of them. So I was very, very good at reading people very quickly. And I didn't have that ability before I got it when I read those books right things to look for and everything and so I think that and it helped me with my communication skills with the players so I think it really developed me into a very good very good coach and I think I could have went on to maybe coach international hockey League and have success had that year not happened. I'm impressed you're not bitter

because you have all the reason in the world to be a little bitter, including the segues nicely into the final. Yeah, well, here's my last question. Go ahead. A little tiny bit because I think I could have made it to the NHL as a coach. And I bet you would have been a great coach. Yeah. That's okay.

Now, yeah, we don't have a time machine. If I had a time machine, I wouldn't be hosting this podcast right now, but I will, I will close with the big trillion. I've upgraded it to a trillion dollar question here.

And by the way, if I ever have Don Cherry on Toronto Mike, and I was talking to his son about doing something like that, I'm going to confront him about this in the sense that I feel like he gave you a raw deal and nobody messes with my number 22 Rick Vive, so he's going to hear it from me. Just want you to know that, okay? So watch out, Grapes. Rick, why the heck haven't they honoured number 22 at Scotiabank Arena yet?

Why the heck haven't they honored number 22 at Scotiabank Arena yet? I don't know. I don't make those decisions. I never lobbied for it or anything, and I don't want to make it sound like I am. But, I mean, all you've got to do is look at the numbers and the amount of games I played in the Maple Leaf uniform. And, you know,

if you look at the top 10 in scoring, I'm fifth in goals, 10th in points. Everybody in that top 10 played anywhere from 150 to 600 games more in a Leaf uniform than I did. So,

I don't know. I don't know whether – hey, you know what? I hope it happens one day because it would be one heck of an honor. It really would. And I would like it – if it does happen, I hope it would happen while I still have my faculties and my family could enjoy it with me on the ice, including my two boys and my grandson now who's like 18 months. Wow.

But you know what? I don't make those decisions and I'm not going to pressure anybody or say that it should be or shouldn't be. I'm not one making those decisions. Do I think it should be? There's an argument for it. I'm not going to come out and say yes, I think it should, because I don't make those decisions.

But there's a good argument for it. Too humble, Rick. Listen, I'm going to put a call to arms, all the FOTMs listening right now. It's time we lobby for this. We've got to make a little noise. Seriously, let's honour number 22 at the Scotiabank Arena for Rick. Well, there's someone wearing it right now.

Well, we have some work to do here, but Rick, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I know I took up over an hour here. I could have done easily another hour, uh i want to just tell everybody listening right now that catch 22 my battles in hockey and life you and uh you rick and uh scott morrison did a hell of a great job on this book it's uh thoroughly entertaining

with a lot of great details and lots more on that don cherry instance we teased at the end there but everybody should pick that up and uh, thanks for doing Toronto Mike. This was awesome. My pleasure. I enjoyed it. I love getting questions from people outside. That was a nice touch. I like that.

And that brings us to the end of our 790th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Rick, you're at Rick522. Do you ever tweet? Yes.

Rick5 on Twitter and Instagram. I think it's Rick522, I think, on Twitter. Oh, is it? I think so. Yeah, it probably is. My memory is not the best these days. which is a book called IT Scams. There's some great helpful tips on how to avoid IT scams.

It's a free copy if you email her, barb at cdntechnologies.com. And Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. See you all next week. Eight years of laughter and eight years of tears. And I don't know what the future holds. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business

and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RomePhone.ca to get started.