Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Rik Emmett from Triumph: Toronto Mike'd #915

Episode Date: September 14, 2021

Mike chats with Rik Emmett about his years in Triumph, why he left the band, his new book of poetry and so much more.

Welcome to episode 915 of Toronto Mic'd, a podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. ChefDrop, access top chef and restaurant prepared meal kits shipped across the GTHA. Save 20% now with the promo code FOTM20. McKay's CEO Forums. The highest impact and least time intensive peer group

for over 1,200 CEOs, executives, and business owners around the world. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, executives, and business owners around the world. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Ridley Funeral Home.

Pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majewski. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the GTA real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Rick Emmett. Rick, thanks for doing this. Whereabouts in the world do we find you this morning? I'm sitting in my library in Burlington, Ontario. And this wall that has the butterflies on it over here,

that's going to get torn out. And I'm going another 10 or 12 feet, but that probably won't happen until next year. But so I used to have a studio in the basement. But my wife decided that, no, that should be, you know, a nice fireplace down there, a place for people to, you know, for the grandkids to be able to sit and watch videos. So, yeah, this is going to become my studio. If I turned the camera, you'd see, I got a bunch of guitars piled over here in this corner.

How many guitars do you own? I'd say probably about 45, 50. You know, like it depends what you want to call guitars because I've got like stuff that's like banjos and ukuleles and, you know, that kind of stuff too. So the instrument collection is probably around 50. Guitar is probably around 40 or so. Well, I mean, you're one of the world's great rock and roll guitarists,

but you're a master of like numerous genres like you've basically taken it upon yourself to become a jazz guitarist and and i mean leona boyd is probably very jealous of how proficient you've become but uh you you've you've embraced other styles yeah i you know um it's nice of you to say master you know i i think of myself as a jack of all trades master of none um and uh in truth i think that's the sort of the whole thing about being a rock and roll animal is that you're kind of you're a hybrid in any case, right? I mean, rock and roll was a bastard child of country and swing and, you know, so, yeah, I, you know, I don't have any clear, clean, pure technique in any regard, in any style, but, you know, I do like to dabble. I do like to experiment. So, and I would say in the end, I'm really a rock guitar player.

That's what I am. But I couldn't stay in one thing any too long before I would be going, yeah, sorry, you know, that's not where my spirit is pulling me. My spirit would pull me in different directions. And when did the spirit pull you in the direction of a poet i'm holding reinvention this is a book of poems by yourself rick emmett where you were always writing poetry i suppose i mean it sounds like you were writing poetry before you were in triumph but where where does the reinvention come from uh well reinvention is something that i've done all my life that's kind of really who i am uh you know so um and of course when you become successful and popular in one thing it's kind of

like uh you know you you're an actor and you've had success in a in a sitcom and now everybody goes that's how they think of you as that you know people think of me as the as this rock guy but i was writing poetry when i was in high school like the the first verse of the song hold on is a poem that i wrote in high school and that's bluer bluer collegiate institute it is you've done your research toronto mike well you ready for this okay so i let the listenership know rick emmett's coming on and then they start to like send me questions and comments and a couple came in about bluer collegiate one from a garnet barnsdale who said ask rick about the track and field record he held at bluer collegiate institute okay so uh you know i could talk on this one for about 20 minutes. I ran, I was a sprinter,

and this was back in the days when before meters, there were yards. And so I was a hundred yard kind of specialist, and I had a quick start. So I would always run the first leg of the relays and stuff so anyhow the summer that I turned 16 I ran in the police games at Exhibition Stadium and I ran a 10 flat 100 yards now

here's the thing the timers seemed to be guys from the Kiwanis that had a lot to drink the night before. So I don't, you know, I suspect that 10 flat was maybe generous. And the other thing is that they got printed in the paper. So, you know, I had this definitive proof that I had run a 10 flat 100. There it was printed in the Toronto Star.

So when I showed up in the fall, I went to the track coach. I said, look, I ran a 10 flat 100 there it was printed in the Toronto Star so when I showed up in the fall I went to the track coach I said look I ran a 10 flat 100 so my name was up on a little wooden board on the hallway down to the gyms where it was like school records and it was like Richard Emmett you know 100 yards 10 flat and the next year they changed everything to meters, so my record was never going to be broken. But I think, unfortunately, the school has been torn down now. So I think, though, maybe some of those things like, you know, the plaques that had the head boys and the plaques that had – I was the president of the BAA one year, too.

My name was on that plaque. I think they all went over to what used to be Brockton High School, but I don't know what they call it now, but it's over on Brock. A listener by the name of 5151 Photography says that you are, Rick, you are Bloor Collegiate's second most influential alumnus next to his dad. And then he adds a little footnote, screw Frank Gehry. Okay. Well, I know that Frank Gehry is a very, very famous architect. Other than that, I have no idea what they're referring to, Who the first most influential one? Is it Frank Gehry? No, it is actually

this person's father went to Bloor Collegiate, so he's making a joke there that it's his dad. Yeah, okay. Well, I guess in his life, in that correspondent's life, his father would indeed be the most famous and the most influential. Rick, we're going to talk some triumph, of course, otherwise people would shoot me. And then we're going to get back to the poetry, and I have a few other questions.

But I'm going to start with a band that was in my backyard only a couple of weeks ago. They're called Mono Whales. And you came up just organically in the conversation, and I just pulled a couple of clips. So let me just play a couple of clips of the nice people in Mono Whales talking about you. So here we go. I think we learned from Rick Emmett, who used to be an advisor for us, who said in a band.

I have his book inside. He wrote a book of poetry and I have it inside right now. He helped us a lot in the beginning. And he always said to us, someone in the band always eats shit and dies. And's the way it goes so sometimes someone just eats shit and dies that's how it goes so that's sally from mono whales sharing uh words of wisdom from uh from you she's a rock star that girl's a rock star in fact all the people in that band they were rock stars you know the uh they were all in my uh business class and and my songwriting class and then uh in their final year their directed studies project uh i would have been their advisor so um directed studies advisor and this is really i love their

stuff i love their energy i love their style style. They were just a great band. And I think they were in it for the right reasons. Their hearts were really, you know, they were living it, you know. And a story I love to tell people about Sally is she was in my business class, the head of the program, who's passed away now, Danny Christensen. I loved him. He was a great guy.

But he came to me and he said, okay, we've got this problem, child, and we don't know what to do with her. And so we're going to give the problem to you, Rick. You know, I think she had actually maybe even failed the business class the year before or the semester or something. It was like, I don't know. They just sort of said, like, we don't know what to do with her.

What do you do with her? And she was in my class, and if she was paying attention, she would always ask really great questions and stuff, but I could tell that she had an energy that would often just pull her, you know, right out of focus kind of thing. So I assessed the situation. And after a couple of weeks, I pulled her aside. I said, Sal, here's what's going to happen. I want you to go down at the time, the David Bowie thing was running at the at the art gallery, like, you know, sort of a retrospective of his life, his career.

And I said, you're going to go there and you're going to make a sort of retrospective of his life, his career. And I said, you're going to go there and you're going to make a study of David Bowie and how he, how he built himself and what he was and how he did it and the things that he did, because that's the kind of sort of artistic personality, creative thing that I, I, I think you have that. So you're going to do a project based on that, but here's the, the, from a government website,

here's how you build a business marketing plan. So I want you to build a business marketing plan for yourself and your band based on what you learn from, you know, looking at David Bowie. And I said, you don't have to come to class. You don't have to give me any assignments just by the end of the term, give me this stuff. And when she gave it to me, I was, I gave her like 94, 95. It's pretty hard to be perfect in my class. You know,

I gave her a really high grade because she'd done an excellent job. And I think those kinds of lessons helped that band sort of figure out how to, but the whole thing about eat shit and die let me address that for a second when triumph first started and now i'm helping you here mike we're going to segue right to triumph um we were a trio and so it was the perfect democracy in the early stages it was pretty good because there was always going to be a deciding vote no matter what happened you know and the the general rule within the band was look if you lose the vote you just have to eat shit and die so that was where the rule came from and but after about 13 years i'd got sick and tired of

eating shit so i figured it was time to leave we're we're gonna get to, but I promised mono whales. I would play one more little clip here. And by the way, this is Humber college, right? This is where you, you, you, you're working and meet the mono whales. Yeah. I've, I've retired from that, but you know, yeah, I spent a couple of decades there doing everything from sort of part-time to partial load to and i taught lots of different courses and i was yeah but it was a great faculty to be unbelievable musicians

there jazz guys just incredible you know yeah some wonderful wonderful people and this is the south campus right lakeshore yeah the one in lakeshore, yeah. In my backyard. Rick, if you ever come back to do an in-person recording, that's literally my backyard. Nice. That neighborhood's getting kind of gentrified because the Ontario government keeps buying up more and more real estate along Lakeshore. Okay, so let's get this other clip.

Last clip and then we'll keep's keep it moving, here we go Can I tell Rick Emmett that you guys say hi? Yeah, absolutely Uncle Ricky Okay, I gotta bring it back to the bike for a second Because the guy I bought this bike from Knows Rick Emmett I just found him on Kijiji

Okay, and it's just a coincidence I won't tell the whole story Why not? I like that story. Because it's long, but... It's juicy. This guy apparently missed out on a multi-million dollar Lotto Max jackpot because of Rick Emmett. That's amazing. That's his story.

I can't verify its truthfulness. I just know a guy I bought a bike from told me that he was gonna win the lottery and he didn't because of Rick did you know Rick was writing poetry like is that something you didn't tell me no I had a did we both we both had a songwriting course with him

yes alright there you go so I don't think you have any insight as to this gentleman who was telling Jordan from Mono Wales he was gonna win a big jackpot but because of you he didn't I don't know what that's about but you have any insight as to this gentleman who was telling Jordan from Mono Wales he was going to win a big jackpot because of you he didn't? I don't know what that's about, but do you have any clue what that's about? I have no idea whatsoever, no.

You know, it wouldn't be the first time that I got blamed for something. And that story got around. It got into my backyard there. Okay, here, we're cooking with gas now. Abernathy Shagnaster,

which is a fun word to say, but basically, it sounds like that's Triumph without Rick Emmett. Like, how do you come to join Triumph? Well, it wasn't really. Abby Shag, as musicians referred to it during the time, was a kind of a part-time weekend band that Gil had

and musicians came in and out of it and they played blues and rock and they would sometimes have organ and two guitars and bass and Gil was the drummer and singer and it was his band and he booked it, so he had connections to, at the time, there was a really nice kind of market that existed in Ontario, where all schools, all high schools got budgets to be able to run dances almost monthly, so they'd hire bands, and bands would go, get to go and play concerts in high schools, So they'd hire bands, and bands would get to go and play concerts in high schools,

and you'd get a fairly decent paycheck to do it. So, yeah, that market existed, and Gil was sort of an agent that would book his own band into those situations. And that's how Levine sort of ended up coming into the band, Abishag. And then when they decided, yeah, you know what, let's take a shot at it, you know, a three-piece hard rock thing with a big show, and let's go find ourselves a guitar player that can, you know, jump around and sing and play and front the band. And so, yeah, you know, that had sort of made the rounds in the bar bands.

Oh, there's this thing starting called Triumph, and they're looking for a guitar player, and they're auditioning guys, and blah, blah, blah. And so, yeah, then they came, and they saw me playing at the Hollywood Tavern. Did you ever see... The rest is history? It's minor history. I would disagree.

But did you ever see Mike Levine's appearance on Wheel of Fortune? Yes, yeah. Well, when it happened, I got phone calls. People said, quick, turn on your TV, you know, go to WKBW or whatever it was. You know, WGR was, you know, the NBC affiliate, I guess, you know. Right. And there he was. You know, Mike was always, always, and still is, a kind of an enigma to me, a bit of a cipher.

And Mike was the kind of guy, like, he liked to play games of chance. Mike liked playing poker, and he liked staying up late and playing. What's the one with the dice and the little pieces and the. Jacks? No, you know, it's a dice game game but there's a board with little spikes and you move your little pieces around I'm thinking

Baccarat it's not Baccarat I can't think of what it's called people are sitting at home going those idiots they can't even think of the stupid name of the game anyways Mike liked games of chance and he liked to keep his cards kind of close to his vest, and he was not above bluffing his way through many, many, many things.

So I don't even know how I got on this tangent. Oh, Wheel of Fortune. Oh, yeah. So I guess that's what a game shows. Maybe he went, hey, I'm going to go on there. I'm going to win a lot of money. So who knows? And going back, I mean, here we are now.

Triumph is a band, and we'll get to some of the success you experienced. But when you were in Triumph, what was your relationship like with Gilmore? It was good, you know, especially through the early stages and stuff. good, you know, especially through the early stages and stuff. You know, the thing is, you know, given that origin story that I just told of, you know, like Triumph was still also always Gil's band. And even when things started getting weird and hairy, you know,

because of record companies and Gil had sort of become the manager, and in the end, you know, the reason that I left was because there really wasn't enough room in Triumph for me and Gil. It was Gil's band, you know, and he was asserting his, you know, personality and his authority and his leadership in many, many ways that I was going like, yeah, okay. So, you know, as I said to you earlier, you sort of get tired of being the one that has to eat crap and die. So I went, okay, you know, it's time to move on. But, you know, I get along okay with Gil. I think I understand where he's coming from and what kind of a guy he is.

And Gil has had a lot of success, you know, building up the Metalworks franchise after he bought Mike and I out of our shares of the studio and then turning into a production company and now a school, an institute, you know. So, you know, Gil never lacked for perseverance and ambition. lacked for perseverance and and and ambition like he was a really fierce kind of guy on that level he was never gonna give up he's got a real Irish streak in him will triumph ever play live again I doubt it you know and I think part of that is that the other guys they're a little older than I am, and they don't keep their hand in.

I mean, I still play guitar almost every day. And in fact, I have a gig. As I'm talking to you now, on Saturday, I will be a wedding singer at my son's wedding. Oh, congrats. I'm doing Queen's You're My Best Friend. Kind of swung Michael Bublé style, but playing my guitar and singing a tune. So, you know, yeah, I got a gig. It's not paying well.

In fact, I seem to be the one that's paying a lot of money. Okay, so Rick, that's a smaller crowd. Congratulations to your son. That sounds like it's going to be a great weekend. But you played for a larger crowd. I just want to ask you about August 26, 1978. You guys triumphed, headlined at the Canada Jam Festival at Moe's Sport Park. What is it like?

There's reports that 110,000 people were there. Yeah, you know, let me just make this point. Okay. Uh, you just said headline and, and I, you know, that's very, that's nice. And that is kind of what I would think of as the rewriting of history, the revising of history, because what happened was Levine had negotiated that. It was like, well, we have to close the show because we want to blow off flash pots and we have a lot of effects and things. And they went, you want to go on last? And they went, oh, yeah, yeah, we do. We got to go on last.

So through the course of the day, and there were bands, it was like they had YMCA, they had like the Village People, they had I can't remember who all. MCA, they had like the Village People they had, I can't remember who all, maybe Lionel Richie's band, the Commodores I think were on the show, it was just a really

wild, eclectic kind of thing 1978, they hadn't really they hadn't figured this thing quite out yet, you know, so and I think there was some sort of, you know maybe even one of the guys that had been behind woodstock was also some of his money was involved in this canada jam thing

and maybe that mike had that's maybe we cut cut the deal with anyway so we went on last and we went on at about three o'clock in the morning because of course these things they fall behind you know bands play long changeovers take longer it rained it was really muddy you know and so three o'clock in on august and it was cold and it was muddy and people were so by the time we got on i'm gonna guess that there might have been, you know, 1,200 people that were conscious. And there might have been another 6,000 to 7,000 that were just fast asleep or stoned, passed out. And, you know, we played our set. So, yeah.

And it was just another gig, really, you know, like we sat around and sat around forever in the trailer waiting to go on. As all of these bands took forever to, you know. One of my favorite singers was on the Kansas plate. So I think his last name, Steve Walsh, I think was his name. Carry on my wayward son. Like great singer right wow so but he played in like basketball shorts with high basketball socks like where the stripes come up to your like

and i thought why would a guy go on stage wearing basketball shorts like that's weird you know but that was 1978 like i'm glad you set the record straight i envisioned you guys in front of a crowd of 110 000 people and thought wow like that but but no envisioning that is good because it only helps uh rewrite the myth all right so obviously i could easily talk to you for 90 minutes just about, you know, Triumph. But of course, due to time constraints, we're going to burn through some stuff here. But it's Hold On. Hold On is the jam that first gets you airplay in the USA. So give us a taste of what it was like when American Radio starts picking up a Triumph song. It's the secret to know it can make you whole.

It's not just a game of notes, it's the sounds inside your soul. The magic of a melody runs through you like a stream. The notes that play flow through your head like a dream. Like a dream I sing this song for the common man And for the people in despair I bring my song into the world and I sing it everywhere The simple truth lies waiting here for everyone to share So hold on and I will take you there, hold on And I will take you there Hey!

Well, I mean, it was pretty nice. And, you know, to me and for me personally, I felt like I kind of figured out, like, unlocked the thing of, like, when I joined this band, Mike and gill they were calling it triumph but they literally had promo that had a picture of a devil's head with horns and and sharp teeth and fire behind him and stuff and i was going this is not right there's something inconsistent in this branding you know and uh when i wrote hold on i i thought well first of all it was something like it started slow it then it picked up and it and it had all this strumming

so it was really my uh musical expression uh much more like gil never liked the tune he never liked playing it you know uh and the band we played it live a few times like it went number one in st louis and when we went and played there uh the promoter really wanted us to play that song but when the band played it live it wasn't very good because that song required like you know nine guitar overdubs and you know heavy duty background vocals and when we played live we were a required like you know nine guitar overdubs and you know heavy duty background vocals and when we played live we were a power trio you know so it didn't translate well live and eventually i would just do it acoustic live you know on a 12 string acoustic which the spirit of the song remained intact that way you know um which is to say when the band played it, the spirit of the song was getting kind of crucified.

So anyhow, yeah, I felt like, you know, here's Triumph, and here's this song, Hold On To Your Dreams, and it was a kind of an integrity now. It was a, something was coalescing, and I went, okay, I think we're on to something. And I think radio agreed, you something. And I think radio agreed. And that song even, the record company edited it down. It was like a long six or six and a half minutes, seven minute thing.

And they made a sort of a three and a half minute version, which I hated. But nevertheless, we got us on AM radio. So that was the start. And I think that also showed what RCA could do, because radio was something that they could figure out for us on a certain level. You know, FM, AOR radio, and then this crossover to AM. They were a lot better at it with Hall & Oates than they were with us. But anyways. Hall & Oates than they were with us. But anyways. But your second single then is Lay It On The Line, which is

still a radio staple. I hear it all the time still. So you're off to the races here. It's the same old story all over again You turn a lover into just another friend I wanna love you

I wanna make you mine But you lay it on the line I'm tired of playing foolish games I'm tired of all the old lies They could say I don't ask for much Truth will do just fine Won't you lay it on the line

Lay it on the line Lay it fall in line. Let it fall in line. Let it fall in line. Don't waste my time. Yeah, and I think, you know, as far as the Evergreen songs go from the catalog, that one is the one that has kind of, you know, it's been licensed to be used in movies by Adam Sandler and, you know, those kinds of, like, the song has a longer life.

But again, you know, I think it was good because here's this band Triumph and they're saying, just be honest. Just be truthful. That's what the song is kind of, you know, stressing. Play it on the line. And it, but it was an easy hook, you know, people that were very, very drunk could be going, play it on the line, you know, three times. So it was, it was accessible. guitar solo Now I love you Now I love you Now I should

I know it's true Something to care Now all of my thoughts are through Don't hold me up, girl Don't waste my precious time I'll keep layin' it on the line Lay it on the line Lay it on the line

Lay it on the line Lay it on the line Don't hold me up now Lay it on the line Outro Music But I'll hold me up Lay it on the line Lay it on the line Something's at the edge of your mind You don't know what it is Something you will hurt when you find You're not sure what it is Then you hear the music

And it all comes crystal clear The music does the talking Says the things you want to hear I'm young, I'm wild, I'm free Got the magic power of the music in me I'm young, I not everybody, but the vast majority of listenership is in the GTA here, you hit number five on the Chum 30 with, or Chum 40, yeah, Chum 30. Magic Power. Yeah.

You're leaping ahead and leaving out a few albums, which is, I realize we have to do this. And in any case, that's what happens, is, you know, history kind of gets compressed and distilled. Yeah, Magic Power was a song that i wrote about the radio that my mom had bought for me like i had two brothers and uh well my

grandmother my dad's mom was in a chronic care hospital at the foot of sort of sunny side. It was called Our Lady of Mercy attached to St. Joe's. And she had arthritis and, you know, eventually was just bedridden. And the nuns and the Catholics would not allow kids to visit except only the first Sunday of every month. But my parents would go and visit. My dad would go, I think, think twice a week but every sunday you know we went down there to visit so my mom would have to leave us outside on the we couldn't afford babysitters and stuff that on the on the grass by the parking lot and we would end up fighting you know my brothers and i would and she'd be leaning out the third floor window going you guys knock that off you stop that so she bought us little transistor radios because we first,

well, first she gave us a radio. We were listening to the radio. Then we were fighting over the radio. And then she said, okay, I'll get each. So that was kind of like getting that little,

you know, six transistor radio with the little earplug. It was like the passport to the universe for me. And I was maybe about nine, you know? And yeah. So, a passport to the universe for me and I was maybe about nine you know and um yeah so so uh Magic Power was a song that I wrote about that you know what radio kind of meant to me because now I was here I was I'd fly on an airplane into you know whatever uh San Antonio, Texas, or Miami.

And people knew my songs. I'd get up on stage, and people, because radio had played them, and so this was already sort of soundtrack to people's lives, which was an unbelievable kind of thing. Like, you're so lucky when something like that happens. So Magic Power was kind of like a love song to that. And of course, let's not forget that John Sebastian, years before in my youth, had written a song,

Do you believe in magic in a young girl's heart? And I was like, so I was kind of stealing an idea from there, stealing a chord riff from The Who, putting all this stuff together, And that was Magic Power. I got the music. I got the power. I got the magic. She's got the power. She's got the magic. She's got the power.

And Rick, I really am hopeful that we'll have a sequel to this episode because typically it's a deeper dive. And again, we have some time constraints. But of course, I am going to be skipping whack of stuff in the Triumph history because there's certain subjects that I need to bring up for the listenership of Toronto Mic'd. For example, this is important to the listenership because we've gone deep into the recording of Tears Are Not Enough. Were you involved with the Northern Lights Tears Are Not Enough recording?

No, although I was invited. Go ahead. We were down in Louisiana playing gigs on that weekend. in Louisiana playing gigs on that weekend, and so the exchange of sort of, you know, will you show up and, you know, will you come to the door and leave your ego aside and all of that, like all of those conversations took place, and I went, you know, I'd love to, but I can't, you know, we're playing gigs, and I'm in, and I can't remember where we were, you know, Baton Rouge or New Orleans or something. And I said, I'm sorry, I won't be able to make it up.

Could I do it later? And I think they managed to get Bruce Colburn into it later. Who's the guy who writes the Brian Adams songs with him? Why is the name escaping? Jim Vallance. Yes. He flew to Hamburg, Germany, I believe, to record Bruce Coburn. Okay.

So there you go. So there were some people that, you know, the guy from Triumph Who Cares, you know. So, no, I didn't get to be a part of it. I would have liked to have been a part of it, you know. Yeah, those kinds of things to me are cool. And, of course, I also feel very strongly that if you've had a kind of a success, you know, in the music business, a lot of it is luck, you know.

And so if you've had good luck, you really should turn around and sort of try and spread some of that back. You know, you really should be trying to give back, which is, you know, it was one of the things that fueled me teaching at Humber. It's one of the things that has fueled me as a writer because, you know, you're not going to make a lot of money writing poetry. But in a way, there's a kind of a servicing of the spirit of what it's supposed to be about in any case, you know, like in any case. So, you know, sometimes it's not about the money. In fact, maybe it's about giving the money back. I just wanted to make sure you were invited to be a part of that. My main concern here is that Rick Emmett got the call.

Yeah. Yeah. What was, was Foster the producer of that? Yeah. David Foster. Yes. I think Bruce Allen was like organizing the group that would be part of it,

but it's definitely a David Foster's composition and production. Yes. Yeah. So here's the thing. I think, I don't think Bruce Allen liked us at all for whatever reason, but you know, we were always kind of like,

he hated us. He would be quoted. He did, he do a radio show and say nasty things or, you know, be on the new music. And he would say like, he hated,

I think generally speaking, he hated bands from the East in any case, you know, being a West coast guy. But, and I think that trickled down a little bit, but there were other, there were pockets of things where,

and when we did the walk of fame thing, we had some moments with Foster and he's great. He's a lot of fun. And he was very, the night before where we had the dinner, where you're just hanging with the people that have won, and Foster got up and sang some songs. He was very self-deprecating,

and he posed with pictures for us and cracked jokes. So I would have liked to have worked with him, and I would have loved at some point just to have done an album with him because the stories, you know, his career, the things that he's done album with him because the stories you know his career the things that he's done oh my god you know and like any guy that sort of treats Celine Dion as if she's riffraff you know in order to teach her discipline like I go okay like I would have liked to have worked with that guy because I would have liked to have gotten a taste of that kind of, I mean, you know, clearly he's got a huge ego, you know, but he's also got a huge talent.

So, you know, it's kind of interesting to be around people like that. The days grow shorter and the nights are getting long Feels like we're running out of time The evidence seems much harder Telling right from wrong You've got to read between the lines Don't get discouraged Don't be afraid We can make it through another day We'll be right back. better to give than to receive I do my best to do my part

Nothing in my pockets I got nothing up my sleeve I keep my magic in my heart Keep up your spirit Keep up your faith, baby I am counting on you you know what you've got to do

fight the good fight every moment every minute every day. I say goodbye every moment. It's your only way. I'll get you back to Rick Emmett in a moment. What a fantastic guest.

The man's in the Canadian Music Industry Hall of Fame, for goodness sakes. He was awarded the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal in 2012 for community service. Rick Emmett is not just one of the greatest rock and roll guitarists on the planet, but he's a great guy. Speaking of great people, I want to thank the sponsors who helped make this Real Talk possible. I could not do it without partners like Great Lakes Brewery for fresh craft beer.

You can find Great Lakes in LCBOs across this fine province. Or you can pick it up at the retail store. 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard. That's down the street from the Costco in South Etobicoke. Thank you, Great Lakes. Thank you, Palma Pasta. Go to palmapasta.com. They have four locations.

Three are in Mississauga. One's in Oakville. Family-run, authentic Italian food eatery, retail store. Delicious. StickerU. Go to StickerU.com for all your Triumph stickers and decals and temporary tattoos. StickerU has been a tremendous partner for years now. Thank you, StickerU.

Mike Majeski. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the GTA real estate scene. Go to realestatelove.ca, reach out to Mike, and let him know Toronto Mike sent you. Ask him anything you like, if you're looking to buy and or sell in the next six months. Mike Majeski is your man. Pillars of this community since 1921, that's Ridley Funeral Home.

Pay tribute without paying a fortune. Go to RidleyFuneralHome.com to learn more. And I urge you to check out a new podcast by the McKay CEO Forum. Nancy McKay speaks with inspiring CEOs and executives. They're fireside chats, essentially, and they're fantastic. It's called the CEO Edge Podcast, again, from McKay CEO Forums. And if you go to TorontoMike.com, I post the latest episode every single week, typically on a Wednesday. So check out the CEO Edge podcast. And last but not least,

our newest sponsor is ChefDrop. Go to ChefDrop.ca and save 20% on your first order of chef and restaurant prepared meal kits. Honestly, take a moment right now, go to chef drop.ca and see what you can get. You can save the 20% by using the promo code F O T M 20. That's friends of Toronto Mike 20. This is for the month of September. Let Chef Drop know that there's great value

in fueling the real talk on Toronto Mike. And without further ado, let's get back to my conversation with Rick Emmett. In our last 10 minutes, there's going to be quick hits here. Again, I'm going to try to do a squish 60 minutes into these 10 minutes. So these are quick hits. No, you know what, Mike? If you want to do this again, a couple of weeks from now, a couple of months from now, whatever, we'll do a follow-up. Okay, good.

Just be your regular, relaxed, charming self. You don't have to rush. All right. I have some strategic spots I'm going to before we say goodbye, and then I'm going to let everyone know Rick's coming back for a part two, so then you'll get sort of your deeper dive. Because people love triumph, you know, and there's so much ground to cover. We couldn't possibly do it in 45 minutes. But do you remember, Rick, playing for the CFNY Wankies? Because my buddy Freddie P remembers you suiting up a couple of times

we're talking softball here slow pitch softball I took it way too seriously I'm sure maybe the stories you've heard like I would gear right up like I loved sports and if I had not become a musician

like I wanted to be an athlete and I played every sport I could possibly make the team in high school. So I played basketball in my senior year. I never played before my senior year. I played volleyball. I ran track. I played football. I broke wrists. I tore my knee up. Like I just loved sports. And we didn't have a baseball team in my high school, but if we'd had one, oh, that would have been my number one sport. I just loved baseball. And in fact, my son became a baseball player, played at Central Michigan on a, you know, NCAA division one squad. And yeah, you know, and he's gone to even now senior men's championship in Canada,

he's gone and played, you know, made the all-star team, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So. Wow. He was an even better baseball player than I was, you know, and I, I was just a guy that tried really hard. And so maybe that's why in the softball you know charity games and stuff i probably got a reputation as being a jerk because you know i would hit the ball like i'd slice a ball over the third baseman i'm left-handed hitter and i slice it over the

third baseman's head and you know race around the bases and into third and have a stand-up triple and then you know the fielder would make a bad throw and then I would score and I would get a home run on a ball that I, you know, dribbled over the third base of his head. So, anyhow. I love it. Yeah. I did love it too.

1988, as you mentioned, you left the band. You went solo. And you alluded to this earlier but is it true that you went a couple of decades without talking to the guys from triumph yes yeah was that like an nda like tell me about uh why the uh why the two decades of silence there following the breakup well when i was trying to extricate myself from the rock and roll machine, you know, it was not easy. And then the other guys decided they were going to make it really, really hard on me and they were going to punish me. really ugly and lawyers fought for the first chunk of time to the point where I finally just went, I just want this to go away now. I'll accept whatever settlement they offer. And so I accepted a settlement. And that was, I think, six or seven years after the fact.

And then I went, okay, well, given that behavior and the lack of honoring what it was that I'd And the lack of honoring what it was that I'd given to the rock and roll machine and contributed, like, I'm just going to move on. And so I did with my life. But then I got to a point where my brother, Russell, was sick with cancer. You know, we sat down and had a conversation. And he said, you know, you got to figure out what you're going to do about the baggage you lug around because, of course, when you get to end of life, those are the kinds of things you're talking about. So I went, okay, if that's what you want me to do,

I'll see if I can't figure out a way to, you know, find a better man inside myself, which it was not easy to do. You're asking, essentially, why two decades? And I'm telling you, because I was angry. I was really angry. And I had to get past that. And it wasn't easy. But I did. Look at how I can laugh and chuckle about it now.

Well, I mean, Triumph Rock and Roll Machine just had its TIFF debut. I can't wait to see this, but this is going to put, I think, Triumph top of mind in the zeitgeist, this documentary. It might. You know, then again uh at at tiff this year there's uh one about alanis morissette there's one about oscar peterson you know do you think oscar peterson is going to be top of mind you know i like the brad wheeler in the globe wrote and said you know it it becomes a very much a question of subjective

taste. And he said, maybe that's why Oscar will never become the kind of Canadian icon that he should. And to me, there's real truth in that. You know, like, you know, Oscar Peterson to me is, he's a living, well, he was a living legend, and he should still be an iconic kind of legend. There probably was no greater piano player in the jazz idiom on the planet Earth than what Glenn Gould was to classical, Oscar was to jazz. And so I think it's lovely that a documentary gets made,

and I think it's lovely that there's this tribute to what the band had been. It's great. But, you know, I mean, to everything there is a season, I think someone once wrote. So, and here we are, we're 44 minutes in, and we haven't even talked about the poetry book. Well, I got 42 minutes, so that's the good news here. Okay, so, I'm just going to read a couple of listener things, because they were excited that I was going to share this with you. Tuesday noon said Canadian music royalty always thought suitcase blues was a standout track on the

Just a Game album. So that's Tuesday noon. And you can chime in if you like, but I'm just going to quick rapid fire. Dale writes, I had no idea they played the Us Festival until this past weekend. Must have been a hell of a show. I go back to 1975 with Triumph when they played the Mississauga High School

Winter Carnival event All a blurred memory now Congrats on the new documentary Can you do a sentence on the Us Festival? Or should we save that for the sequel? Well, you know, it was May 29, 1983 Actually, my brother Russell's birthday And there I was in San Bernardino.

So sometimes when you're in a rock and roll machine, there's things about your life that you're missing out on because you're doing other things, you know. Nobody asks me about missing my brother Russell's birthday party, you know, in 1983, but everybody asks me about what it was like to play in front of 250,000 people and fly into a gig in a helicopter and, you know, in 1983, but everybody asked me about what it was like to play in front of 250,000 people and fly into a gig in a helicopter and, you know, be on a bill with Ozzy Osbourne and Judas Priest and Motley Crue and Van Halen, who had a compound where, you know, the actresses from

sitcoms were coming and going throughout the day. You could stand at the back of our trailer and just watch, and here's another friend of Valerie's, And here's another, you know, like it was unbelievable. It was just, it was an insane kind of surreal environment. But the bottom line was we went on that afternoon and we played great. We kicked ass. We had a really good set. And there's a lovely moment in the documentary where the guitar player, John Five, talks about being a kid,

sitting at home, watching it on TV and going, Oh man, this guitar player, like it was, you know, it's great. People have got to see it.

Cause they got to see that moment. That was one of my favorite moments. I sent John five an email. I went, buddy, you know, wow. Thank you.

What a lovely thing to say. So, okay. We're going to close on the poetry but Midtown Gord wrote the nicest longest email I'm just going to tell Midtown Gord I'm saving it for the sequel but he had this burning question

on Sport of Kings there is a song one of his favorites Take a Stand it is the same song as a Santer song Heaven on Earth with a different chorus I was wondering if this is a song Rick Santer's brought to the band or vice versa. Yeah, it was.

And Rico, as we love to call him, because you can't have two Ricks in a band. He toured with us and yeah, there were some co-writes on that album and that was one of them. And yeah, I mean, there's a whole history of triumph that's an untold history with tracks like that b b cuts on albums that never really got promotion never really got the band never really played them live although i think we did play take you stand live on that tour just because you got've got to play something from the new album,

and we did play that one. But, you know, again, I mentioned this earlier, the leitmotif of you've got a band called Triumph. There should be songs that speak to that. And so a song like Take a Stand, it's in that, you know, lineage of never surrender, fight the good fight, hold on to your dreams, all that stuff. With 56 poems, you've got 56 poems in seven sections. I'm holding up now the poetry book you wrote called Reinvention.

These are stories from your life, your thoughts on religion, politics, the general state of society today. And there's tributes to people, including your grandfather, your father, your brothers, and the tragically hips Gord Downie. Again, in a couple of months when I hit you up again, we're going to dive a little deeper into this book. But please tell us, where can people get Reinvention

and why should people pick up Reinvention? Okay. The close. Here he goes. So, I just thought of the actor. Oh, come on. What's his name now? The guy that hosts Match Game now.

What's his name? I don't know who hosts Match Game now oh no okay uh i need another clue anyhow he was in the movie um where where that was about uh glenn gary glenn ross always be closing always be closing alec baldwin did a skit on saturday night live where he they were they were uh santa's elves and they were supposed to always be cobbling and he blew the line. He would always be closing, always be cobbling.

And then he was killing himself laughing. It's Alec Baldwin. Alec Baldwin. Thank you. See, that's 68. Your brain is just fried. All these years of rock and roll. I can't remember Alec Baldwin.

Okay, so always be closing. Here I am going to close on the poetry book. I feel like, you know, I'd always been driven to the point of going to write something. And poetry seemed not as far a reach as a novel would have been because my songwriting, lyric writing was going to be of service in terms of phrasing and rhythms and that sort of thing. But it was also, this gave me a license that I didn't have, a freedom, because songwriting, you have to hit structure and form so much.

Whereas with a poem, you don't have to as much. But am I answering your original question? What was the original question again? If somebody wanted to pick up this book, I think fans of yours would want to apply the invention. So here's the problem, right? COVID. It's a big problem. I don't know if your fans are aware of this or not.

So, you know, what I would and what ECW Press would love is if people were going to their local bookstores and buying it. You know, unfortunately, it's hard even literally to get lumber delivered to paper mills and paper mills to deliver paper to publishers, printers, printers to get them to, you know, so the food chain is broken down a little bit because of COVID. So there's, you can get, you can order it on Amazon. Who knows when it's going to get delivered. But there's an audio book where I did some little guitar things to get from one section to another.

And there's two songs that are little bonus things that are in the audio book. So I have high hopes for that. And I also have some pride sort of in that because I don't know if anybody out there has recorded their own poetry for an audio book. But it's a damn hard thing to do. It takes forever. And you listen to takes, and you go, no, that's awful. I'm doing that one again. Oh, geez, we got to fix that, you know, so, but yeah, you know, you can order it on Amazon, you know, and yeah, go and buy it in a bookstore.

Get a hard copy. There's nothing like, Mike, this was like when I was a young kid and I got to hear my songs on the radio for the first time. Like to hold that book in my hand, to hold this book in my hand. If you're going to promote this using a screenshot, this would be the one I would prefer. Okay, so hold that shot. Actually, let's do it real quick here. I'm going to promote it with a screenshot. i'll count you down this is exciting three two one

done okay so the always be closing so um yeah to hold that in my hand was a, it's a kind of a really sweet thing. And to be able to autograph copies and give them to my kids, you know, and the people that are in my grateful acknowledgements and mail them out to them, I was going like, yeah, there's something organically right about this. There's something that feels, and I must say this, just to give you a closer. Oh, my God, I'm running late. I feel like this is more me than when I was that guy in spandex pants. Like that guy in spandex pants was a guy, you know, doing a job.

You know, it was a show and I was a character in a show you know and i think i did a good job of being that character in that show of being that cog in the rock and roll machine you know um and then even on my own going out and touring on my own and making records and classical guitar records and jazz records and all this stuff. But there's something about this where I kind of go, and maybe this is just old age too, that you get to a certain point and you feel like there's a kind of a coalescence of things that the threads in the fabric are now sort of creating the tapestry that is,

this is really who I am. And I'm, you know, I've dipped a toe in the Pacific ocean. Like, what do I know about poetry? Practically nothing. You know, like I started to read like Foster Wallace and I go, I don't know. I don't know what he's getting. Really? Okay. Give me, give me a few years to see if I can suss it out. Cause I'm not sure I'm getting what he's getting really okay uh give me give me a few years to see if i can suss it out because i'm not sure i'm i'm getting what he's after you know and you know i'm doing interviews and people will say and do you know who lorna crozier is i'm going i'm sorry well you know gone for general's award this you know i go oh okay i better i better order some of her books out by amazon you know so i. I have been trying to bone up.

I'm a rookie once again, but I don't mind the feeling. It's good. I got to go. Coffee's for closers only. Go grab yourself a coffee. Get out of here, Rick. Thanks so much for this.

We'll talk again soon, I promise. Okay, buddy. Thank you. Bye-bye. Take care. Bye-bye. That brings us to the end of our 915th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike.

Rick is at Rick Emmett. And remember, Rick is R-I-K. I'll ask him about that next time. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. ChefD Drop is at GetChefDrop. Use the promo code FOTM20. Use it today.

McKay's CEO Forums are at McKay's CEO Forums. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home is at RidleyFH. And Mike Majeski, he's on Instagram,

at MajeskiGroupHomes. See you all next week. Because everything is kind of rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold, but the snow, snow Warms me today And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is rosy and green Well, you've been under my skin for more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears

And I don't know what the future can hold or do For me and you But I'm a much better man for having known you oh you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and gray yeah the wind is cold but the smell of snow won't stay today and your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away because everything is rosy and gray well i've been told that there's a sucker born every day but i wonder who yeah i wonder who

But I wonder who, yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of grey Cause I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you? All them picking up trash and them putting down ropes And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle is growing

This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started. And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy and green Well, I've kissed you in France And I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name

And I've seen the sun go down On Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow warms us today.

And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy now. Everything is rosy, yeah. Everything is rosy and great. Rosie and Greg