Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Rob Butler on Sato, Cito and Snow: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1693

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

In this 1693rd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with 1993 World Series Champion Rob Butler about Ayami Sato pitching for the Toronto Maple Leafs of baseball, his relationship with Cito Gaston, and Snow throwing out the first pitch at Christie Pits this coming Sunday. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Yes We Are Open, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1693. 93, World Series Champions in 93 of Toronto Miked. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees. From Palma Pasta in Mississauga in Oakville. Yes we are open!

An award winning podcast from Monaris hosted by FOTM El Grego. Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. Ayami Sato pitches this Sunday at 2 p.m. at Christie Pitts I'll be there to be discussed RecycleMyElectronics.ca committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past Building Toronto's Skyline a podcast and book from Nick Ienies sponsored by Fusion Corp Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today returning

to Toronto Miked, it's 1993 World Series, World Series Champion, Rob Butler. How you doing, Rob? I'm doing fantastic. Can I just say something about the lasagna? Yeah, talk slowly though, because I'm going to like close my eyes and envision that you had invited me over to eat it with you. Go ahead. Oh my god, it's so good. We are just like loving this lasagna. We're going to get more tomorrow actually. Apparently there's a sale line and we will be I think we're going to be like front of the line man this sale i've been hearing about it i think it's two large lasagnas for 40 bucks or something is it what is it it's a great

deal the deal of a lifetime so our kids are all like you need to get us more lasagna so we're me and sherry heading out there to get it okay shout out to sherry butler who i've been i've seen her a couple times in the past week don Don't get nervous Rob. It was professional I'm never nervous. Sherry is Sherry's a constant professional man. She is bang on every every time she's amazing. She is amazing And so shout out to palma pasta if you were here in person Rob, I'd be giving you a large lasagna from palma pasta Well, you can always send it through the mail. I'll give it to Elvis and he'll drop it off.

Yes, please give it to Elvis. I just saw him this morning. Okay. And you're still coaching Elvis's son? Yeah, Charlie's come to the camp. He's getting big. He's hitting home runs now. He's going to be a fantastic baseball player. Maybe he may believe one day. Okay. That would be amazing. Hopefully you're still managing the team when he gets there. Yeah, hopefully managing the team after Sunday. That's it's one game at a time. Okay, so I have questions for you. Yeah. But right off the top, I'm going to remind the

listenership that if you did visit the basement, so this is not obviously you're not in the basement right now. People can tell by your fidelity here, but you were here for episode 1458 and I'm just going to read the description because people can go find that like 90 minute deep dive of Rob Butler because this is going to be something different. This is going to be time sensitive questions I'm going to ask you. But here's what I wrote at the time. Mike chats with Rob Butler about growing up in East York with his brother Rich, playing for the Toronto Blue Jays and winning the 1993 World Series,

retiring from Major League Baseball as a Blue Jay, playing in the IBL, managing the Toronto Maple Leafs and more. So that's like the go-to. How was that experience for you, Rob? All of it or to make believe part? No, just like being in this basement for your 90 minute episode. Oh my god, that was amazing. It was made for me. I didn't actually bend down to get in there. I was the man, people who are five foot nine have a little harder time. But it was wonderful being there, man. I would definitely come back and do it again in the basement. It's actually more fun to do it with you there in person.

Oh yeah. So next time you're on Toronto Mic, will it be in person? 100%. Definitely. The only way I want to do it. That's the way I want to hear it. Now, your brother Rich, quick question. So he made his Toronto Mic debut. It was episode 1517, but he wasn't in the basement. I actually recorded live from a Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game at Christie Pitts. And I'll just read who was on that show. So I was joined by Mike Richards, Rich Butler, your brother, Blair Packham, Mark Weisblot, Joel Goldberg, Robert Lawson, Mark Weisblot, Joel Goldberg, Robert Lawson, the VP of Sales, and Maya the mascot, who I saw last Sunday at Christie Pitts. So if people, a couple of quick questions about you and Rich, like which of you two

were the better Toronto Blue Jays and which of you two had the better Toronto made beliefs career, you and Rich? Oh, that's a hard one. Uh, you know, we would all, we would tell everyone that he made me better and he would tell everyone that I made him better. So it's just one of those brotherly love things. We were so competitive when we were young that we made each other major leaguers, really. So, but he, I would say I had a longer time with the Blue Jays, so I was better. I mean, I probably, I think I got maybe five or six more hits out of that.

I mean, I think we both got 50 something hits in the majors. So we got about 100 hits combined. His were about, I think he had nine home runs. I didn't hit any home runs, but he had about nine home runs. So I'd say he's a better baseball player overall than me. Rich was more of a power player, you know what I mean? A cannon of an arm in right field, home runs, still bases. Well, I kind of just tricked everybody into keeping me around. You know, I could bunt, I an arm in right field, home runs, still bases. Right kind of tricked everybody into keeping me around.

You know, I could bunt, I could do little things that kind of helped us. I had a great attitude. You know what I mean? I cheered everybody on. First got to give high fives. You know, that kind of thing. I was a good teammate. You were great. And what about for the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team? Who had the better IBL career, you or Rich? Well, the first year we played there together he hit a lot more home runs than me I think he had about 16 and I had I think four or

five but I hit 488 minus the 75 points Jack deducted because he didn't want to sitting over 500 in the league he actually took hits away which is actually funny I went 14 for 15 at one point and my batting average went down which is obviously not possible so the funny thing is Rich complained about it and Jack told him we can't have anybody coming here hitting 500 because whatever reason Jack wanted them in. So Rich did that the first year and won the MVP the league and then next year I hit 16 home runs with a low lower 14 home runs with a lower batting average. So I would say he was like a nose better than me. You know, we finished at the wire,

he's like a nose better than me. But we were so equal in so many different ways that I got called a tie. Love it. Very diplomatic of you. Now, is it still competitive between you two? Like, are you guys still just have that natural competitive instinct when you guys chat or hang out in 2025? I think it's more about who's healthy that they are not. It's not about any case fall. Hey man, how's your knee? Oh my knee's good today. How's your knee? Oh my knee's bad tomorrow. It's one of those things where we're now comparing injuries and we're not we can walk into Starbucks together and enjoy a coffee in one piece and have a good peace of mind. I think the baseball stats have kind of disappeared and that competitiveness. We used to race everything. We would race to the car. We

would race to the beach. We would race. We would try to outrun each other everywhere we went. It was funny that that natural competitive spirit was always with me and my brother. And if anybody wanted to know, Rich actually did beat me up one day. So I I melted off a little too hard once and he got me good and I learned to never milk off to Rich Butler ever again. You learned a valuable lesson there. I did. You know, so Rob, I know you know this, like we've hung out a bunch of times since um, your debut here in the basement. But like, you know, I'm here very interested in like Toronto history and capturing these like definitive Toronto stories. And I hope you realize that you and Rich East York legends, you two are a key part of like Toronto sports history.

I just hope you guys have like a sense of your place in it all. And if people are ignorant or unaware, they should listen to more Toronto Miked episodes where we shine a light on these stories. So kudos to you and Rich for representing East York. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, we, we came from a small place in Toronto, a little part of Toronto, and we're lucky where we grew up. Where we grew up is what made us, right? We were dirtbag kids and out in the dirt every single day and hoping the sun would stay up 24 hours a day and, you know, living the dream with it with our you know tennis ball hockey stick

we didn't you know when we're really we didn't have gloves we just played everything with our bare hands right and ultimately we made to the majors together so but it really was a whole like a whole family like my mom and dad were amazing they supported us and the best they could and you know made sure we were good at what we did. But like the odds of you both making the majors, forget playing for the Blue Jays, right? The home team, but the odds of you both playing Major League Baseball upon birth were astronomical. Yeah, not supposed to happen for sure. No, nobody, people just make fun of us for playing baseball.

That's how hard it was even in our neighborhood. What are you playing baseball for? And it was just in our blood, man. And you know what? We did make some of the impossible come true. Like we're the only brothers that have ever played for the Blue Jays in their whole history, I believe. I can't find any of the brothers that have ever done it when you think about it. So it's something that was an amazing accomplishment for us. But we don't, you know, I think it's because our dad kept us in check. If we went out of the line, Frank Butler was right there to make sure that you know, the boys stayed in their lane, you know what I mean? So

we weren't allowed to do anything kind of that would steer us down the bad road. He was a real good mentor for living right. Well, you're lucky to have had him because without him possibly you end up going the route of the snowman and don't even comment on that because that's a teaser For what I'm gonna hit you with later in the chat Don't even comment. I know you're going that's true. Yeah Yeah, we will get there. We'll get there by way another Toronto legend whose story is

Wild and inspiring in and it's a whole different vibe than the Butler story. Hey, before I press record, you mentioned something about Butlerville. We always got to shout out Butlerville. This is in Newfoundland, right? This is where your people are from. What was that fun fact about somebody from Butlerville? Yeah, Canada's Got Talent, Jacob Lewis, from Butlerville, Newfoundland, where my family

is from, my dad's from there. Actually legitimately now is on the map because he, you know, Shania Twain and all his, and Howie Mandel, now they know about the bill exists and he won Canada's Got Talent, won the million bucks and another superstar from Butlerville, man. It's amazing. That makes three. Three, three, three of those 100 people. It's pretty good.

All right. Let's get to what I witnessed on Mother's Day last Sunday. Okay. So I'll speak for myself. And then I got specific questions for you as the, not only as the manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team, but as a former major league baseball player yourself, okay. So firstly, what a vibe at Christie Pitts for that home opener on Sunday,

I had a bunch of people out for TMLX 18. And I gotta say that was a big crowd. That was a just a rad vibe. And kudos to the whole organization for giving us like a big Toronto event and didn't even charge up for the tickets. Yeah, I know. Really an unbelievable experience for all of us, everyone involved. For Keith making it happen from the very beginning, to me making sure it happens while we're on the field, to my wife Sherry who organized a lot of what went on that day, you know, she's kept everybody organized

and in place and doing the right thing, getting all the people there. So it really was a huge team effort, right? For everyone, for the organization, for Sato to come in and feel comfortable and welcomed for something that she was going to do that was unbelievably difficult under the circumstances, right? And even more the circumstances of what she went through before the game even started. That would have worn any human down. Yeah, maybe I'll pick it up and then we'll get back because obviously I want to cover up and then we'll get back because obviously I want to cover Sunday and then talk about next Sunday

and I have other questions. But like I was on the field before the game. So the game was scheduled for 2pm last Sunday. And there's another game this coming Sunday at 2pm at Christie Pets. So I was on the field, I brought my two youngest kids on the field with me just so they could like soak it in. And I look around right so I see okay there's Olivia Chow mayor of Toronto there's Diane Sachs who's not only a friend and client but she for that that ward she's the city counselor I see the Japanese consulate is on the field there's cameras

everywhere and there is the starting pitcher, Ayami Sato, on the field getting gifts and, you know, talking a little bit. And she's got a pitch in five minutes. Like you, like, that's like, can you imagine like, I don't know, Jack Morris on the field doing like chatting up whatever the press and stuff when he's on that mound in five minutes. Like, that's an amazing thing that happened with Ayami Sato who just so the listenership knows in case because I assume stuff like but obviously not everybody knows. Ayami Sato on Sunday became the first woman to play professional men's baseball in Canada. That happened on Sunday. So I got a lot of questions about this but I'm here to tell you what a big deal it was to be on that field

with you know the consulate Olivia Chow and Sato herself, wild. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. She was able to be out of her routine completely. Because everybody baseball player, any athlete has a routine. You have a routine. Everybody has their routines, right? And for her being where she's from and how hard she works, she for sure has a rigorous

routine that gets her ready. And to be there with the mayor and everybody speaking a language that she doesn't understand. She doesn't even know what the heck they're saying about her. So it was, I tell us her translator was right there with her working with it all the time. But it was definitely something that would have been overwhelming for most people. And Jack Morris would have said, you're a bunch of garbage collectors. I'm not doing this for you. It's right for me. What a pitch. I have a job to do. I got a job to do and I'm gonna be warming up and getting in the zone, but she she was a champ She was amazing

From the from the minute she's gotten to Toronto. She's been amazing her energy her smile her happiness her Excitement to play baseball, you know really knowing what it's like to be it was like a Wayne Gretzky moment, man You know you you're waiting with all this pressure and still goes out and wins the game for you. You know what I mean? The Toronto Maple Leaf's hockey team needs someone like this to grow up and like, you know, do what she's called upon to do, right? So it was amazing that she was able to do what she did. It was, I'm so happy that I was a part of it.

And I'm so glad it worked out the way it did for all the fans. And, you know, they got to see someone do something spectacular and, you know, love baseball. It's really about loving baseball more. Well, she rose to the occasion and there were all eyes were on. There was a big crowd for last year's home opener as well. And she wasn't there for that. But so it was a big crowd. But a lot of those people were obviously interested to see Ayami Sato. By the way, before I proceed, Sato or Sato? Well, I keep saying Sato and I keep being told to say Sato. I think it's Sato. You know why I think that?

Why? Well, FOTM Hall of Famer is Cam Gordon is married to a CBC reporter who did a piece for The National on her and she who I will only refer to as MF you'll have to Google to get the real name I think I signed a contract to say I do that but MF said Sato so I heard what I figured oh the CBC would make sure to get it right and I now have switched from Sato to Sato. Okay, so I'll switch to Sato. Yeah, follow my lead. Listen, I am the correspondent for CNN. I need to say these things properly.

Yes, you are. That was amazing to see you on CNN. I can't believe you got there. What an accomplishment that was. Well thank you for the text because I'm always shocked when somebody sees it in real time on CNN. Like, oh, who is tuned into CNN at like, I don't know what that was, 630 in the morning, but the butlers are. Yeah, oh no, that's the first thing we do in the morning, coffee and CNN.

Sadly, what a sad life, but that's what we do for fun. Doesn't sound sad to me, man. It sounds kind of neat. You get your coffee, you're with your loved ones, you tune in to find out what's going on, and next thing you know, Toronto Mike is on the screen. It was a bit of a shock but it was happy because he had your leash shirt on it was great I mean wow worldwide the least you know now. Taking you global. Okay here's questions for you. Okay was the plan always to have her pitch two innings or were you going to play that a bit by ear and look at the pitch count, etc. No, it was always to go to it. We had our lineup set for the guys who were bringing

in after and we kind of wanted to get everybody in working. And it was also a safety mechanism just so that there wasn't an overwhelming like she felt good knowing she's going to have to worry about two innings. I think sometimes when you join a team, you think, Oh my god, like what are the expectations of me? So she didn't have to worry about throwing five anything. She got to try to win the game, because it puts more pressure. So it was easier to say you got two wings of work in and you're done. Okay. Now, as you know, because your manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team, those two innings, this is extremely efficient. Like Sato pitched, she threw 15 pitches or something like

that. Do you know what the number was? 14. 14. Okay. See I'm short chained. Okay. Listen, she retired the side in order in that first inning on five pitches. Yeah, it's incredible. It really was, it was like goose-pump material like I was I was looking around going we knew we were hoping to be good but we didn't think it would be this good. I mean she showed that the pitchers had a field proper. She did a perfect PFP with balls hit the road she made a perfect go to first base like step and throw did everything the way you're supposed to do. Amazing like the whole thing was amazing it was incredible. Well that was after I gave her a massive hug and picked her up and was like, man, that was incredible.

Thank you. I thanked her for doing what she did. It was incredible. So that first pitch, which was kind of a historic moment because, yes, there are instances where women have played professional baseball against men, but not in Canada. Like this was a first. And professional baseball against men, but not in Canada. Like this was a first. And I mean, we were witnessing that live and that first pitch was like a little nibbler that she, like you said, she fielded cleanly and then threw to first, just executed it perfectly.

Like you're taught as a, like in little league, it's like, okay, that was perfect. And then you're like, wow, like one pitch, one softly hit ball that she fields and throws the first five pitches in total to go to retire the side in the first inning. She only throws 14 pitches over two innings, extremely efficient, but you were only going to pitch her two innings. So 14 and out might be the shortest shutout ball by a starter that in history.

It's probably pretty close. I don't know very many men who have been able to do that. Certainly the guys who came in after weren't able to do it. So anybody who had doubts about her pitching on the team, coming to the team, I think she definitely showed them that she's the real deal. Because I know there was some doubts. Obviously I had doubts that day. I was listening to old men tell me, what are you doing? Why is she pitching? I was like, because she's good. And we're about to find out how good she is. And luckily for me, it worked out. Because there were some naysayers. Of course there's going to be naysayers. There's naysayers in everything in sports. It doesn't matter who you are. There's going to be naysayers and you got to prove them

wrong. Being an athlete is going to prove people wrong a lot. So, and she did that. So it was good to see. Well, let's get into that because, you know, proof is in the pudding, which is she threw to, she struck out one, she threw to six batters, six up, six down. So, that happened. Okay, I witnessed it. This is real. But, and she's pitching this Sunday. So, quick question about this coming Sunday at 2 p.m. when she starts again, is she getting just two innings or are you going to go a little longer and stretch her out a bit? again, is she getting just two innings or are you going to go a little longer and stretch her out a bit? So it's going to become more of a normal game where we'll stretch her out a little longer for sure. If everything goes the way it kind of did, we don't expect it to be like that obviously,

you know, we're not saying you got to do 13 pitches now. But if she keeps her pitch count down and, you know, keeps guys off the bases and limits the runs and the damage we'll keep her going for about four or five innings if we can but that'll be it we'll get we'll get the other guys in working again because it's still so early in the season and we need to see some guys other guys also need to get to work and get comfortable with the mound and the park and new guys that are on the team so yeah we'll stretch her out more and see how it goes. Okay and in a moment I'll make an exciting announcement about what else we can expect on Sunday beyond my presence because I'm gonna be there, man. I mean, I'm all in on that. I'm all in on the Maple Leafs and Sato.

Well, I'll be there, man. I'll be there. Okay, so when you speak to Ayami Sato, Okay, so when you speak to Ayami Sato, are you speaking to her translator? And then the translator speaking to Ayami or do you speak directly to her? I'm curious how that dynamic works because English, she's not fluent in English. Both. I'm speaking to her and her translator. It depends if the translator is close by. One thing that I hope would happen when she came out the field on the second inning, I wanted her to tip her cap to the crowd, right? Do a little curtain call, but she didn't understand what I was saying.

So I tried to demonstrate, but she still didn't get it. So I think she was so excited about the moment, so we missed that moment. But I try to keep it as plain baseball as I can, you know what I mean? So and she knows the key words, finish out front, make sure you're smooth, you know, don't overthrow, she knows those words. So it's okay for baseball lingo. And how is she with her teammates? Like both ways? Like, like, how is she with obviously all of her teammates are men, obviously, and I'm wondering how these these professional baseball players are with her, like, how has that relationship seemed to you?

I see I see it growing more now, obviously, she did prove herself, but she came in with very limited time with the team with the boys. So, you know, for the guys who were, you know, for the first time, you know, play on the same team as a girl at this higher level, it was probably unusual for them. And they would have been stepping back and saying, well, let's see if she's able to do it. So I think that definitely after the first inning, everybody was tuned in and they're like, wow, this is like, she's good. This isn't a joke. This isn't a PR deal, right?

So it was good, man. So she definitely proved that she belongs. And, you know, with your teammates, you've got to be able to prove that you belong there because they want to win right and whether you're a man or a woman They want players are gonna help them win. So she's proven that she belongs and it's gonna help us Now she throws a lot of I'll call it not junk, but she she throws this curve like so she's but but did she throw any fastballs? I couldn't tell from my vantage point with the the FOTMs and attendance from beyond attendance from beyond left field, but does she throw any of her fastballs? Oh yeah, yeah, I would say primarily

she's throwing fastballs. Okay, okay, because I just wonder, she tops out what in like the early 80s, 80 miles an hour or so? I would say more mid to low 70s now. I don't think her arm is as strong as it used to be. She definitely wasn't throwing 80 to there. She was definitely probably 74, 75. But you know, this is the thing, right? Again, it's a lesson on, it's not always below. It's being able to keep the ball down make the ball move make it move sideways on a two seam or a sinker right the hitters don't like that hitters like straight fastball you could throw a fastball 200 miles an hour straight and a hitter would rather that

than a 75 mile an hour fastball moving sideways so it's just you know she's able to move the ball and move it away from their sweet spot and don't make contact but they can't make hard contact that's the beauty. Right. I play with Mark Eichhorn. Mark Eichhorn never threw a baseball over 80 miles an hour. He you know basically almost won two ERA titles in the majors. Never threw a pitch over 80 miles an hour. Hard to hit because he moved the ball so much. That's a great point and then I'm thinking of like the 1990s version of Frank Tanana. Yeah. Yeah. Frank Tanana was probably even more effective once he, you know, learned

that he could he could actually guys out throwing a 65 mile an hour curve ball. It was so frustrating to hit those kind of guys. Do you Rob Butler, former Major League Baseball player? Do you think a woman could play Major League Baseball? Could Iami Sato pitch for the Blue Jays? She could not pitch for the Blue jays she could not pitch to the blue jays no that's that's going a little way above our all our skis right now definitely not they would be able to adjust quicker to her I think down the

road someone with a little bit more below you know some a girl a woman is definitely gonna throw 85 miles an hour that's coming and her to be able to change speed say a 75 mile an-an-hour change-up like real good to seeing something that's moving. Yes, it could happen. It could happen. You heard it here first. Now I was thinking, okay, we need a woman who can throw a nasty knuckleball.

What's happened to the knuckleball, man? We all grew up with like Phil Negros, right? The Negros and I'm thinking as Charlie Huff and some of these knuckle ballers, I feel like a woman who's got a good knuckle ball could have a great career in the major leagues. Yeah, anybody with a good knuckle ball can have a career in the majors. That's one pitch that anybody could throw.

I mean, I think Phil Negros was 105 for the last 10 years of his major league career. I'm pretty sure, man, the guy had grayer hair than everybody when he was pitching for the flip tape. Oh yeah. He's an old man. Doesn't matter. That ball moves and dances and you know some of those guys like Tim Wakefield, the Negro brothers, I played with a couple knuckleballers when I was in AAA as well and they were really effective because they have no idea where it's going. Nobody knows where the

ball's going. Catcher doesn't know. The pitcher doesn't know. They have no idea. They just throw it and whatever happens, happens. I think that maybe Ayami should start working on that knuckleball. Well, she probably has one in her repertoire but doesn't want to bring it up yet. So it may come down. She's saving it. It may come down soon. Okay. Okay.

Wow. You know, you mentioned Phil Negro and I believe technically speaking the first Blue J in the Hall of Fame was Phil Negro. Yeah there should have been more but yeah fantastic. Should have been more is that you telling me what I believe to be true as well which is Dave Steeve should be in the Hall of Fame. Dave Steeve, Joe Carter, there's a lot of Toronto Blue Jays, Carlos Delgado that should be easily in the Hall of Fame when you do comparables of numbers now.

And for some reason they got a handicap because they played for Toronto because Americans don't know where Toronto is. They don't believe, they wish Toronto never had a team. So it's something that kind of pisses them off that, you know, amazing baseball players played for Toronto outside of America. You think that there was no world outside America the way they think so it's difficult and but somebody in the they have a committee now of baseball players that can put these other guys in that should be there and guys like Dave Steve and Joe Carter and generally based on like a 10-year

portion of your career if you are dominant and I would say Dave Steve in the 80s was one of the most dominant pitchers besides Jack Morris and Joe Carter you know late 80s and all in the 90s was the most dominant um RBI guy you know guy that was clutch World Series home run to World Series like what the heck does the guy got to do to get him to get into the Hall of Fame man? Well hey I'm going to use this opportunity to promote the fact that uh thanks to Rod Black, I'm actually going to bring him up in a moment too, I will be recording live from the Joe Carter Classic and get Joe back on Toronto Mike. And I'm with you on, I'm a hundred percent with you, Rob.

And again, I don't know baseball like you do. I'm not even going to pretend I can compete with Rob Butler when it comes to baseball knowledge. But I think you're 100% right about Dave Steve and Carlos Delgado. I believe those two should be in the Hall of Fame. But based on what I've seen when they look at war and different modern statistics, analytics like that, Joe Carter is probably better suited for the Hall of Very Good. Yeah. So that's the argument people have.

But you know, when you have a guy who 10 years in a row, he played for the Cleveland Indians for a long time. And that was a dump of like stadiums and baseball and tough place to play, cold all the time. Like the things he did there before he came to the Jays was incredible. So he had a dominating 10 years where he had a hundred RBIs in a row. I think he's one of like

very few guys have done that. We had so many rebbeys every year for consistent. And that's a hard thing to do. Whatever team you're on, driving and run is difficult. You ask anybody who plays baseball, it's hard to hit with guys on base, right? And he had the right mentality. And you know, I mean, I'm a believer. You say when you do the golf thing with him, but, but, okay, that's what he called me all the time, but, but you'll You say when you do the golf thing with him, but but because he called me all time, but but you know exactly what I'm talking about. But but said you should be in the Hall of Fame like the actual Major League Hall of Fame and she was says he'll be like, who?

But we have other that's right. Unless we forget because you were there, Mr. Butler. This man has the biggest hit in Blue Jays history. He what we would have called if we had the nomenclature of the time we would have called it a walk off to clinch a World Series. You were there you've got a ring and I got because you mentioned the Cleveland baseball team I have to play this. No Cleveland, no Bowie. Shout out to Michael Williams, VJ Great. Okay. I remember him, I used to listen to him all the time, that guy's great. Okay, here's a funny thing. Michael Williams called me like last week, maybe it was a couple

weeks ago now, you know, time is a blur to me now, but he's like, Mike, they're going to add you to a mural at a laundromat and you need to be there for this event. And he kind of says all this stuff and I'm like, oh, that's cool. Like neato. Fine. Then I kind of forgot about it, to be quite honest. And then the VP of sales showed me that there's flyers promoting this event, which is like 60 bucks a ticket and I'm on the flyer. Wow. So I feel like. But then to the flyer in the laundromat. That's fantastic. Like I now I'm thinking I should probably show up at this thing.

They put me on the flyer. But like I mean, I just had this one quick call from Michael Williams. So apparently I'm on a mural in a laundromat and I'm supposed to be at this event. So I'll try to figure out more. But I just thought I'd give you a heads up there. That's very cool. I'm not going to mural in my own family house. I can't. I do not want to picture me around anybody else. So maybe I'll end up in a laundromat.

Listen, there's probably a mural of you in Butlerville. Oh, yes, definitely. I would say definitely in Butlerville. They're yeah, they're they're hardcore for the butlers down there and I gotta tell ya. And I went there last year, my dad had a heart attack and I went there and it was just like, it was honestly like I was there in 93.

The whole place looks the same, everybody looks the same, you know what I mean, they still talk the same, they talk to me like I played baseball yesterday. So it was, it's a great place, Ben. I can't say enough about Butlerville and what that means to my family and me. Well we got a mural of you in Butlerville, but there should be one in East York. Is there no statue of the Butler brothers in East York?

Well, they did put my name up at the field that I grew up in, finally. Yeah, so that's there. Stan Waddle, they've put my number, my number 34. I finally made it. One of the first people to be put on one of their diamonds. So I feel very honoured about that. I feel very lucky that I grew up in this store and played baseball there. I wouldn't have been a baseball player if I didn't.

So it was nice that they did that for me. Can I ask you about this controversy that I caught wind of between you and the aforementioned Keith Stein who owns Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. So do I have this right? You correct me now on the record here, you know I don't do any edits and posts so here you go, but is it right that you wanted to start Sato opening day which was last Sunday and Keith didn't think she was ready or there's too much pressure? Like what is

the definitive story there? Well, I think that you know the whole gung-ho to get her here to have a woman on the team She's the best in the world sixth world championship MVP Keith was very excited about all that Happening until till it got closer to happening Then it became a oh no Rob. What are we doing? What like do we start her? Should we put her in a bullpen? And I was like, no, we're going to start her. And I think he thought about that and it kind of, he got a little more worried. He got a little more scared about his, you know, what he had created here. You know, everybody gets a little self doubt.

And I had to remind him that, you know, when you bring someone in the first action, what she's done, she deserves to start. So we battled a little bit about it, right? He was a little upset. I think he called me a name once. He called me a crazy new fee and a half mohawk. What are you doing, man? It's... So we, it was definitely a disagreement

that became the greatest thing that ever happened to Keith. Man, does he look like a hero for bringing her here. And me just being a supportive, supportive good employee made it happen for him to make him look good by putting her out there first. The crowd came to see her and the crowd went home, pleased. So it was a genius move by both of us in the end.

And hopefully the crowd is back this coming Sunday to see if she can continue her. So it's okay. So back to the other Leafs who are the opposite of your Leafs because the other Leafs is breaking my heart here, okay? But the other Leafs were facing Bobrovsky who had quite a lengthy shutout streak going until the kid, I almost called him Richardson, Robertson, okay? Nick Robertson scored like late garbage goal in the end. It didn't matter at that point.

It was six nothing or something for the Panthers. But like it ended the Bobrovsky shutout streak. And I'm wondering if people people what I'm telling people to do is fill the hill on Sunday and watch Sato go a little longer than the two innings and see how long she can keep this streak going. It's unbelievable. So I'm throwing in that promo, but I'm just going to switch it over to Keith for a minute here. So do you think Keith, I shouldn't speak for Keith. I can get Keith on Toronto Mike and ask him, uh, he's going to get Gene Simmons on Toronto Mike for me. They're buds. Okay. But do you think Keith was worried he might get lit up?

That's good baseball terminology right there. One that a pitcher never wants to hear about. Yes, yes, definitely worried about her getting lit up. I think a lot of people are worried about her getting lit up. I even think some of her teammates are worried about her getting lit up. But I think that when someone who is a true champion at any level wherever you are, you can translate that and transfer that into another level in another league. Like most guys who make it to the majors, you gotta realize you'll just get to the majors. You gotta do A ball and then another level A ball. You're constantly going up levels, you're being challenged, right? Double A, triple A, and then the major leagues. So I think that

up levels, you're being challenged, right? Double A, triple A, and then the major leagues. So I think that for her, for her in being used to playing regular Japanese baseball, wherever she grew up to being on the national team, she's used to jumping up and reaching other levels, right? So this is why she's special, and she proved why she's special. So to go out there and do what she did

in front of all those people with no warmup, basically no warmup. I mean, the woman went out there and had to do a hundred interviews Probably not again not understanding what happy people are saying to their interpreter wasn't always always around her And stress beyond belief. I think although she never shows an ounce of stress is probably why she still looks like he's 20 years old And still do that and perform that well, it's incredible It really is incredible something to be really proud of something. I'm really proud to be part of. And for the record, she's 35 years young. 35 years. You wouldn't ever think that. She's so agile and mobile and athletic and

you know, she's skin. She looks really good, man. She's doing her thing and you know, whatever her secret is. I would love to know what she's doing. You never had a doubt, eh? Is this right? Like you didn't have a doubt, like what if she throws one of those 76 mile an hour fast balls in? Because the caliber of baseball at Christie Pitts, just so the listenership knows, because I watched a lot of games last year, obviously this isn't Major League Baseball, obviously.

But these guys can play like these guys can hit, you know, you and your brother played there. And we talked about that earlier, but like, you know, you sit on like one of these 75 mile an hour fastballs, you might hit that thing to, you know, Bloor and Bathurst or something right? Like, like there was no, you had no doubts. Well, everybody has a little bit of doubt. That's what doing anything in life is you wake up, sometimes you got doubt, you

got overcome that doubt, or that over that doubt has to be overcome for you. So always in the back of my mind, I was definitely worried for her 100%. I was worried for the whole thing. Not working out everybody. I think it's natural and normal. But I was positive for sure. I was more positive than a lot of people. I think me and natural and normal, but I was positive for sure. I was more positive than a lot of people I think me and Keith were probably the most positive without it. So I You know, but I think that the whole the whole point of being an athlete is again

You got to prove people wrong, right? I've had to prove many managers wrong that I belong even in an a ball even getting signed even get into the Olympics You can do anything that I did. Right? And I thought that giving her an opportunity would be to prove us all wrong. And I think that she did that because the thought of women being better than men pisses off a lot of people, men. The supposed truest of sports don't think this should happen. And she proved them way wrong.

Even if it doesn't work out from this point on, she did it, she proved it for those two innings, and it can happen. I witnessed it, it happened. You know, they can't take that away from her. Exactly, same way, you know, you get one or two at bats in a World Series, you go one for two, you bat 500,

no one can take that away from you. Well, okay, so I have a few more places you've been awesome here, but one place I wanna go, cause you dropped it in the intro, and I meant a few more places you've been awesome here, but one place I want to go because you dropped it in the intro and I meant to get back to it is, and I don't think I fully realized that Rob Butler has zero major league baseball home runs. Like any regrets that you didn't get that one chance to round the bases? You know what, Mike?

I need therapy again. You're going to put me in therapy. Thank you. This is cheaper than therapy. I get to express my disdain at myself for not having... you know, it's funny, when I was tempted to minors, I was a singles hitter. I always was, right? And I was the guy told to get on base for... I was a leadoff hitter. I was told to get on base. I wasn't a Ricky Henderson leadoff hitter or, you know, 21 leadoff home runs in your career. I was told to get on base and it worked for me. You know I won a couple batting titles in the minors hitting a lot of singles and some doubles and stealing a lot of bases scoring

runs and then when I got to the majors I I would I know what I had no problem hitting it. I was definitely more defensive. I was more worried about striking out so I cut my swing down too much. If I could go back and do it over again, I would honestly try to hit, I would definitely try to drive the ball more. I would take more risk and do it. But I really felt at the time that for me to stay on the team, because you're always worried about getting cut, like for me, there was no money invested in me. I thought I was going to get cut after every game, right? You're always looking over your shoulder, oh God, who's coming to get me? And so I always wanted to try to hit 300 singles, blah, blah, blah. Whereas my brother, on the other hand, totally different.

He's like, I'm going deep every swing which is why he has major league home runs which is why he hit a home run off a Roy Holliday you know what I mean totally different mindset it's all in the mindset I didn't have it quite when I was playing the majors for sure it's like field of dreams right when Moonlight Graham gets into that game but he doesn't get the at bat right yeah there is it there is definitely a feeling that I missed out on something that if I played a little bit more in that mindset of screw you I'm going to try and go deep on a fastball here sometimes and I probably should have done that anyways but you know it was my mindset

in the way I went about it and you know I I got my 54 hits in the majors, I believe I got. So that's 54 more hits I ever dreamed I would get, whether home runs or not. It was magic for me. So I'm happy with it. Quick shout out to Burt Lancaster. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. But Burt Lancaster was, he played Moonlight Graham in Field of Dreams. And even saying that sentence to you, I got these like goosebump chills by how much I love that scene with Moonlight Graham coming to save the daughter who was choking on a hot dog. So now you got me thinking of Field of Dreams and I might need some therapy as well. Well, we all cry when we watch that movie.

I remember my dad never played catch with me, but he would throw back, you know, but he would throw batting practice to me once. So, my dad, my father's son moment was my dad drilling me in the ankle with his first pitch in batting practice and BP was over. And dad was never allowed to throw BP to me ever again. Okay, that'll be the less successful sequel we'll make. Hey, Rob, do you know the...

And again, another question for Keith Stein, but he's not on this Zoom, you are, but is Sato signed beyond this season? Like, does she have a one-year contract to play for the Toronto Maple Leaf? Yeah, she's only signed for this year. Everybody kind of goes year by year in the IPL. There's no guaranteed long term contracts because we would all do that for sure. 100%. So it's definitely this year by year. Now here again, I'm going to put on my, I'm going to stir some shit here because I know

a lot, right? You know, I'm surveying all this stuff, but I see pieces and I've always had this gift wouldn't be surprised if Keith owned the whole damn thing and it's like the architect of it all coming together. So okay so again I think a lot of the she's gonna get lit up stuff wasn't so much the he-man-woman haters that was a song by Xtreme on pornographedie he-man-woman hater okay I think it's more like remember Manon Riam is my Saint saying her name? Yeah, like, right, the goalie for Tampa Bay who only played exhibition games never got into a NHL regular season game. But that was clearly like Esposito had a PR stunt to get Floridians interested in hockey, which is no small feat.

But where I'm going with this is, I think some people were sensitive to this being a PR stunt, like, oh, you signed a woman to pitch for the the made beliefs. She didn't earn it. This is a PR stunt we saw on Sunday. She absolutely belonged. She was lights out. I can't wait to watch her on Sunday. This is real. But do you think Keith brings her over for the Toronto made beliefs and she ends up being a star of the women's pro baseball league that's launching next year? Definitely. I definitely think there's a massive tie into that because look at the attention that's

brought for the league. Keith is, Keith, this isn't Keith's first rodeo on how to promote things and get things going, right? He's so good at what he does. So that's why he's successful. And people with that kind of mindset, I mean, his friends are Gene Simmons and Snow. He knows everybody. Well, wait, he knows everybody.

Well, we're going to get to snow. I'm that's that's a Toronto Mike friend. Maybe now a key will get to that because I'm taking credit for that one. Yeah, so he got what he's he knows so many people. He has so many connections for a reason. He's a go getter for sure. He's got these fearless or, you know, 100% fearless separate when he wanted her to be in the bullpen instead of starting, then he lost his balls for a minute, but he grew them back. They're fully intact.

So he's back in line. So he's good to go. But yeah, it's definitely going to mean everyone's been talking about her, what she's done and the woman and every chance I get to talk about that new lead that's coming. So I believe it's going to be successful. They have massive trials happening all over America And as I know for sure tons of Canadian women who want to get involved in place So it's gonna be it's gonna be actually very big. So Keith is playing 3d chess here, right like Bring her from Japan to Toronto Where it which is she told me I was at that launch that media event at left field brewery in Liberty Village and

that launch that media event at Leftfield Brewery in Liberty Village and she said via translator that it's the first time that she ever lived outside of Japan like so this she's now living in Toronto pitching for you we're gonna see her Sunday and I believe this is absolutely that you will you sadly we will lose her to the women's pro baseball league, unless Toronto's getting a franchise, which I'm unaware of, which maybe you know better than I do, but it sounds like this is the next move for Ayami Sato. Yeah, definitely.

I think that Toronto's not a park to plan. I think that's their problem. There isn't a little stadium with 5,000 seats that the Leafs and a women's professional league could plan. So I think there is their sticking point. There is nowhere to put this team. So they're to find a way to make a stadium. I'm sure there's people who want to support women's sports and women's baseball

that Olivia Chow and some people get together and make this happen because there is a league coming and then you're going to need a seventh or eighth team and one should be in Canada for sure. Yeah, we just to jump in there as a unofficial mayor of Toronto By the way, I met I met Olivia Chow for the first time on Sunday Like the first time I had a conversation with her was Sunday. I just think that's a fun fact. Okay we should build a quaint ballpark for our woman's team in the Portland's and Possibly and I'm not trying to mess with this wonderful thing at Christie Pitts, which is unbelievable that you can sit on that hill and watch professional

baseball while you drink a beer, like it's unbelievable, but maybe the Maple Leafs of baseball can share this Portland's stadium with the new women's baseball pro baseball league team in Toronto and maybe this is the grand vision of this man playing 3d chess with us Keith Stein Yeah, I think I think definitely getting the word out more and getting more people interested and sato coming and doing as well as she Did and being the person that she is Definitely bring interest to it. And I really believe that everybody wants to see something different in the city and I think girls, women playing sports, women playing baseball has become such a massive

thing with the hockey and some of the other sports that they're now starting to form, with basketball is doing amazing. Baseball will do the same. We all watch the league of their own. We all know there was a league back in the day and it was fantastic. It was so competitive. These girls were amazing. If you think about the 40s and the 50s, how good they were, that it can, for sure sure can happen. And now the girls are way more athletic than they've ever been. And you know, the grittier, they're more grinders or dirtbag, they're dirtbag baseball players, just like the men. So why wouldn't a team come to Toronto League be successful? Oh, we would embrace that team. And I can already visualize the merch and

we got it. So this is all part of this grand plan we're speculating we don't have any announcements to make but when you lose Sato to this women's pro baseball league the guy who comes in to fill that PR void I'm telling you we need to make it happen now when will we see Joey Votto playing for the Maple Leafs at Christie Pitts and then this new stadium we're gonna build? Well we can get him away from playing chess in Etobicoke. He may come out and play a few games of baseball. I don't know. I used to throw bank practices at Joey and he wanted to play in Toronto so bad. He wants to play baseball in Toronto. So anything could happen. But these guys, you know, after their careers, after career, they need a couple years to wind down. Kind of like Rodney with Hampton now.

You know, they need a little time to miss baseball. And this is the closest thing to facing guys who are throwing hard enough where it's competitive and fun and there actually is some dignity and integrity about it. It's not slow pitch where, you know, as much as I love playing slow pitch, it's still not baseball, right? It's not a baseball coming at you 90 miles an hour, which is what Joey Votto would want to see So stay tuned because then Joey Votto finally makes his Toronto Mike debut So on that note quick pause to tell you Mr. Butler that if you were back in the basement, I would be giving you a wireless speaker from a narris

so you could listen to season 8 of yes, we are open and so you could listen to season 8 of Yes We Are Open and I'm gonna just tell you about the most recent episode that dropped. Al Grego sat down with Grant Frew, not to be confused with Grant Fehr or Alan Frew. So his name is Grant Frew. He's the bar and marketing manager at Bushwhacker Brew Pub in Regina, Saskatchewan. Grant recounts Bushwhacker's unique German beer inspired roots and how it evolved to become a staple in Regina's brewing culture. You got it Rob? I love it. And it's funny you say Regina, Saskatchewan. I played baseball in Regina, Saskatchewan against the Toronto Blue Jays. I went to a program in Vancouver called the NBI, National Baseball Institute, 1989. I was 19 years old. Just come back from Australia. Boxing day, Blue Jays called me and said, why don't you go to this program out and get some training in to see if you can develop into a professional.

Anyways, went to high school there, did this program. Our fundraising exhibition game was against the Toronto Blue Jays. They came and played. They flew in the Regina, played against us in a little football stadium. I had to face Tom Henke. Wow! My first step bat was against Tom Henke. Tom Henke was actually in a slump, if anybody could believe it. He was slumping a little bit and he got out of that slump pitching against our little Canadian National Baseball Institute team. I had an eight-pitch at bat against him. He was trying to throw his 95-mile-an-hour fastball by me, couldn't do it.

So he ended up throwing his forkball, which I then swung and missed by about three feet. I gave him a little telly. He actually looked at me kind of funny when I was walking out the field. He kept looking at me and I was like, oh, Tom Pinky's looking at me. It's actually funny.

Went on a tear after that. So we got him straightened out. So anyways, that was my trunk. My first Toronto Blue Jays in the game was against them facing Tom Henke 19 years old in Regina, Saskatchewan. I love that story. Amazing. And I bet you spent a little time at Bushwhacker Brew Pub in Regina, possibly. you spend a little time at Bushwhacker Brew Pub in Regina, possibly? No. No. I will.

If I could, I would. Well, they're not sponsors of Toronto Miked, although I will be listening to that episode. Yes, we are open. But if you are, and you know this, if you're going to drink craft beer. And I say this with all due respect to the wonderful people at Left Field Brewery who are the official beer of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. The official beer of Toronto Mike is Great Lakes beer and I'm inviting you Rob, I'm inviting Sherry, I'm inviting Keith Stein, I'm inviting Ayami, everybody is invited to Great Lakes Brewery at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard on June 26th from six to nine p.m. for TMLX 19.

Great Lakes will buy you your first beer and then Palma Pasta will feed you. It's gonna be a great night. They should make an Ayami beer. One thing I will say, she loves beer. See, I would make that happen today if you didn't have the conflict with the fact your official craft beer is not Great Lakes.

Oh, man. One of them has to make a yummy beer. Don't make a fortune. Keith is probably already on that because that'll be a left field thing, but we drink Great Lakes around here, of course. Shout out to Left Field Brewery. Last but not least, recyclemyelectronics.ca. I know you've got old cables hanging around the Butler home there.

You got to drop it off at a place to be properly recycled so that those chemicals do not end up in our landfill. So you're going to go to recycle my electronics.ca and the most recent episode prior to this one of Toronto Mike, I was coached by Nick Ienies. It was an episode of the building success series podcast that Nick has and it's a wonderful podcast and I really do encourage people to listen to Nick Ien's coaching me on how to generate more revenue from TMDS. And I think number one on that list is triple your rates with Keith Stein. So it was good advice from Nick Aini's. Genius move. I don't know if you're gonna get that, but you know what? It's good. You is the ask of you. Okay, so we've covered a lot of ground. You've been amazing. What was your relationship like with Cito Gaston?

Oh, um, Cito, Cito was my hero growing up. Definitely, definitely someone that I've watched and wanted to learn from as a baseball player. Um. I tried to, I copied baseball, I copied the Toronto Blue Jays hitters all the time. I was Jesse Barfield, I was George Bell, I was Rand Small and I was Garth George. So me and my brother imitated all these guys, simulating that we were being coached by Ceto because we figured if this works for them, it's going to work for us. So we did this. And then Ceto became my manager. And so someone as a manager is different, right? Managing players is difficult. And I found that Cito was, for me, difficult, not easy to play for, definitely.

I definitely think maybe because I was from Toronto and I may have had too much admiration. And you know what I mean? So it made me nervous. I wasn't able to communicate with him properly. I felt like I wasn't, I just felt it's kind of like, you know with your dad you don't feel you're good enough sometimes, you know, your dad can make you feel like I'm not quite good enough for this house and There's times I felt like that and I really wish I could go back in time and talk to him more about that

Right going to his office and say hey man. I'm scared shit. Let's out here. I don't want to feel scared I don't want to be scared of you Like I want you to you know, help me if I'm struggling, if there's something, you know what I mean? I'm like, so it was difficult. And I found that I found that sometimes with the younger guys It was a little bit difficult because he's an old school guy. Unbelievable knowledge, unbelievable ability to coach Joe Carter's and Roberto Alomar's and you know, Tom Hinkes and Dwayne Ward's and you know, George Bell, these big ego guys that are hard to manage and you know how do you make all those guys have Tony Fernandez who is constant you know I mean so

How he was able to do that which is why he should be in the Hall of Fame to me Yeah, he won two World Series with two of the best teams on the planet, but he's a huge part of that Right so for him to be able to do that he deserves that for me It also lies on me to say that again. I should have went to him and said, hey man, I need help here. I never did that. So there was a miscommunication. You know what I mean?

I had a chance to be with him at the Conch's Mike dinner and we talked for three hours and my perspective of CEDO is, it was like an enlightening for me. A great time to finally say, this is what I was feeling. And he even said, you know Rob, sometimes when you're coaching and you're managing, you want your guys to not feel called. You don't want them to be babied. But I wanted to be babied. I needed to be babied.

And I've never wanted that before from any coach. No way. I didn't even want my coaches talking to me but for some reason I want to see those attention and It was difficult. So it was difficult It was difficult for me to be from Toronto grow up in Toronto be the master Blue J fan I was massive fan of Cito and then become a player Like you can't even describe what that those emotions and feelings are because when you talk to major league baseball players

There if you were to say, what's the one thing you would not want to do? Play in my hometown. They all say, I do not want to play in my hometown. Because when they do go to their hometown for three days, they can't wait to get the hell out of there. Because it's too much, right? There's distractions.

And so that became, that was difficult for me. And that was the only thing that I would say that I missed out on when I became a Toronto Blue J. Nobody kind of prepared me for what I was going to do. Again, it was like, you're here, best of luck to you, man. Whereas John Oliver would say, Rob, it took me five years to get comfortable here. These guys expect you to be comfortable in seven games. It's not going to happen, Rob.

Like he was one of the only guys who kind of described to me what he went through. The other guys were kind of doing their thing and being professional and you know living there you know they have a lot of minority played five six years in the major they don't been through what I was just beginning to do and none of them had really experienced being a hometown baseball player. I had to do all that with very very little mentorship very little experience and I had Cito as my coach who was under huge pressure right to keep winning and to keep putting a team out there that was gonna win so you know the mix was difficult at the time I understand it now being my coach who was under huge pressure to keep winning and to keep putting a team up there that was going to win.

So the mix was difficult at the time. I understand it now being a coach myself and a more mature person. And I don't know, sometimes you wish you could just press a button, go back and do it over again because you know what you know now, it's sad it didn't happen that way for me you know rob i talk to athletes now and then and you you don't get as insightful in raw and honest and answer is that typically like i really appreciate that was a real answer to that question yeah well you know what what have i got to lose man what are you gonna do fire me What are you going to do, fire me? But you know, so I'm going to title this episode Rob Butler on Sato, Sito, those names are very similar, Sato, Sito and Snow, more on that in a moment.

But you're going to be kind of working with Sito a little bit again, because I know from Keith Stein that Sito Gaston, as you know, he was announced as an ambassador of sorts of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. So I believe he'll be in town in June because I've been promised to sit down with him on Toronto Mike, which I can't wait to chat with him. Like you're gonna be involved with Cito again. Yeah and I'm really excited for it. Honestly, since I had the Conch Mike talk, I'm ready for it and totally fine. I believe, you know, I know what he's there for. I know how much the people in Toronto adore him. He's gonna bring people out. I mean, if you don't love Cedar Gaston as a Torontonian baseball fan, then who are you gonna love?

You know, the guy was a fixture for so long since like 1982, I believe. I'm pretty sure he was 12 years old when he first came to the Jays and made a huge mark on the team, right? His just his stature his calm his quietness is you know his love his love of the players Everybody loved him and you know, see the tip is I mean I still remember a CEO tip I think every time Cito kind of came out of the taco whenever he did the whole place would erupt 50,000 people would scream there's no so I think it's another huge move by Keith to bring in such an icon of Toronto Inn, a guy who, I mean, what he's been through

as a baseball player and then as a manager and as a hitting coach. I mean, the ups and downs even with the Blue Jays after the World Series wins. I mean, he's got so much story to tell about baseball life that I think the park should be filled when he comes down for sure. So Cito is on the level of excellence at the dome but he's not in Cooperstown he's not in the baseball Hall of Fame

should he be on that list with Dave Steebe and Carlos Delgado of Blue Jays who should be in the Hall of Fame but are somehow being suppressed because they played in this wonderful country of Canada? I think Cito working for the Blue Jays definitely heard him. As a manager they have, I know they did a, I don't know what you call it, election or where the heck it was, where you vote on these guys to get in and he missed out and he shouldn't have missed out. Right.

It's, but it's a Toronto handicap again, because he did some things that were incredible, right to win two world series. I believe it was the first black manager to do that, which is just incredible. You know, what the hurdles they have to overcome that they had to overcome to be playing in baseball, which is a joke. Um, shouldn't have been from day one when the game was created. But you know for him to overcome all those things as a player that he lived through, you know he talked about he was Hank Aaron's roommate and some of the things

that he endured as a baseball player back in the 60s and 70s and then to go on to be a great manager that he was and to manage teams. Because people handicapped him too because they think because he had Roberto Alomar and Dave Steve and Tom Hanksky and Joe Carter and Devon Wade on the team that that's why we won but it was really Cito because it's the leaders that carry you over the top right. The Toronto Baby's hockey team don't have that leadership that can carry them over the top and you can see it when you're lacking a leader you don't win. The Blue Jays had a leader and Cito was him. Every player would say that. You ask Alomar, you ask Joe, because of Ceto. You should be in the Hall of Fame.

You referenced earlier Ceto had to manage these egos and there may not have been a bigger ego in Major League Baseball than the late great former teammate of yours, Ricky Henderson. Any thoughts? I think the first time we've talked since Ricky passed away, any thoughts on what it was like to play with Ricky? Well when you play with Ricky, you realize that you throw everything anyone has said about him right the way down. Because none of it is true. His reality, the reality of his personality is not what people think. You know, to be as good as he was, he was cocky. 100%. He truly believed he was the best out there and he was, right?

There's no better leadoff hitter in the history of the game. Not even close. Can anybody come to this guy with stolen bases, run scored, damage he did in playoffs, right? He is a menace and he did it for so long. So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's people who for some reason want this perfectly molded human to be humble, to be constantly saying things about other people, but also play great. For Ricky to play great, Ricky had to be what seemingly seemed like this overly cocky person, but he wasn't at all. He's not like that at all.

He's actually kind of like laid back, a little bit insecure. The fear of failing was huge in him right. He wanted to be the best at all times which is truly what drove him. So I think the misconception of the way he was, even for me, I didn't know until I stood on left field talking to him. We were both left fielders. Obviously I was kind of his caddy carrying around you know whatever he needed because I was the fourth and fifth outfielder. But he was so good and didn't even really know why he was so good.

He was just that good natural. But you ask him, how do you like what's the secret of stealing bases? Hey, man, you just go, you just go. I just know real trick to this is no rocket science. How do you how are you such a good person at getting on base and taking walks? I know you just see the ball, man. You see the ball like nothing. Nothing was because I'm the best because you know I'm stronger. I'm fat. You know none of that. It was such basic simple things and

that's how he played baseball. He kept it really simple and he had unbelievable talent and it just came across as somebody that was overly cocky. Because a baseball player doesn't owe anybody anything. A baseball player doesn't owe a baseball fan an autograph, a conversation. You don't owe him anything. You're buying a ticket to watch them play baseball and that's it. But some fans want more. They want a piece.

And then when they don't like that piece, they go and tell everybody that guy's an asshole. Well, he's not. Ricky was actually a great teammate. He would buy you dinner. He would buy you if you needed something, he'd do it for you Right Dave Stewart was just as cocky but nobody ever said that about him I think because they're afraid to get punched out or his laser beams come up the eyeballs exactly But you know, I mean the same kind of confident athlete but viewed differently it's interesting, right? It's just interesting the way people perceive

Um, but you know, I love both those guys. I mean, Dave Stewart bought me my first pair. He bought my first pair of cleats when I got to the Lujays. When I got called up, we were in Tiger Stadium and I was sitting on a milk carton for a chair and he looked at my cleats from AAA and was like, Butler, where'd you get those cleats? And I was like, I don't even know. But my toes were actually sticking out of them. My toes had worn through them. And he was like, that ain't gonna work. That ain't gonna work in the big leagues. And I had two pairs of ponies in my locker the next day.

The next day, something that I didn't know happened back then either. Within like 24 hours, I had two pairs of brand new shoes from Dave Stewart, which is like the ultimate dream for a rookie baseball player. Like someone taking that, giving you something that you, I didn't recognize that I had bad shoes on, but he did and he took care of me. That's a mind blow story. Yeah, that's cool. My wife likes to tell

that story too. Because Lloyd Mosby has the same story. Dave Stewart bought him his first pair of cleats as well way, way back in the day. Yeah, we have the same kind of similar story. But you'd think like, what do I know? I have to buy a ticket to see that team. But like, you'd think that when you are called up to the show, another Kevin Costner movie, he's just a lot of great movies. But when you're called up to the show, you think the team would give you like new cleats? No, no new cleats, no new gloves, just you, you man.

Because most players want to play with their stuff, right? And for me my shoes have been on so long in AAA and I didn't even really realize that they were scuffed up so bad. Like you don't get your shoes cleaned in AAA and amazingly they clean your shoes after every game which I thought was weird. I didn't want clean shiny shoes, I like my shoes nice and dirty. So yeah, no, they do give you a bat. They'll give you your own bat with your name on it which was really nice. My bats didn't say pro stock anymore. They actually said Rob Butler. So it was actually nice to get a bat with my name on it. Hey, one quick last thought on the late great Ricky Henderson who I kind of liked his swagger I always liked it when the best like yeah he did he knew he was the best

but he backed it up on the field so like he had this like swagger but like you said there was no better leadoff batter in major league history nobody stole bases like Ricky Henderson like he the proof was in the pudding right so I'm wondering how much credit should he be receiving I think he's probably not getting enough credit actually but how much credit should he get for doing his dance on second base and getting in the head of wild thing Mitch Williams when Joe Carter is at the plate. Well Ricky was in everybody's head when he played he was like the menace of the base

pass so for sure anytime in the world series when he played. He was like the menace of the base pass. So for sure, any time in the World Series, because he did that thing to Mitch Williams at home plate where he stepped out of the box, Mitch kind of came set with his head down. And when he would deliver the pitch, he would look and there was like no one there. Ricky had stepped out on him. And that was all planned, right?

So he got on base with four straight balls and then was like, Mitch was done. Like he couldn't figure it out. He was so worried about, because they were winning only 6-5. Ricky was a tying run and he was terrified that he was gonna come around and score. So he was totally distracted by Ricky.

And that was what his other part of his job, which was incredible. He made him make a mistake. So you're about to wrap up with a mind blow about Sunday, but if you think about it, you know, we've talked a lot about Joe Carter. We talked about Cito Gaston, who I'm going to thanks to Keith, I'm going to meet him in June and have him on Toronto Mike. He's going to be an ambassador for Toronto

Maple Leafs baseball. So we talked. So again, recap this. Okay. So Joe Carter, Cito Gaston, Ricky Henderson and Rob Butler. What do those four people have in common? We're all World Series champions. You're all World Series champions, man. You're a part of that history. And it's funny because we're speaking on May 15th at about noon. Now it's 1239. We're going to have to wrap soon.

But we're chatting now the night after basically a humiliating, gutless, no heart loss by the Maple Leafs of hockey in their home arena in a crucial game five against the Florida Panthers. We didn't see anyone step up, no leadership. Nick Robertson gets the only goal. That's all you need to know about that game. We just came off that. And then you think about these champions we had in 92-93 that you were a part of.

And I'm telling you, man, that flag, that championship flag of 92 and 93 that you were a part of. And I'm telling you, man, that that flag that championship flag of 92 and 93 that you were a part of 93s, those flags are going to fly forever. And we'll be talking about this until our last breath. Yeah, no, I played on a team with true leadership, where guys are going to do whatever it took to win, right? And the guys who you expected to do it, didn't do it right. The tournament league hockey teams doesn't seem to have those guys and it's difficult. It's difficult to watch. Like Sherry is the ultimate optimist and she thinks they're gonna come back and they're gonna win and you know she's there cheering them

on all the good little things and I'm sitting there going these guys are not gonna win they don't do anything. No heart. But I'm a 55 year old man who has suffered his whole life with leaf heartbreak. Rick Vibe hit the crossbar against the St. Louis Blues in game seven back in the 80s and I've never gotten over it. So my heartbreak goes all the way back to those days with Boris Salomé and those guys wanting to win a Stanley Cup and can't do it because it's just a leaf, something about the Leafs.

And now with Marner and Matthews not doing anything, there's invisible men out there it's it's sad because I want leadership to step up I want them to send Marshawn into the boards and do some serious damage but nobody wants to step up or at least do this there's no true captain no true leaf player that wants to do that little extra like like the Florida Panthers with one Stanley Cup You can see how what it takes to grind it out and do it. They're dirty They're cheap shot and you're gonna get in your head the Leafs don't have that they just don't have that and they've gone all in on Austin Matthews as their leader their captain like they literally I almost reminded me when you said Rick Vibe and I remember that series

Right. That was the blue series that was after we swept the Blackhawks in three because it was a best of five do you remember this 86 maybe Wendell Clark maybe he was a rookie that year I won't maybe I'm I'm trying to remember yeah but okay we like see we're we're way living in the past with that one but they literally took the sea away from local boy John Tavares and put it on the chest of Austin Matthews. They locked him up for the biggest money contract in the NHL long term. Austin Matthews, we've got him for what, four more years, whatever it will be. Now excellent regular season superstar puts the puck in the net like nobody in the game

today. But when you're in, for example, when you're in the playoffs, especially the second round, we always have to check the stat sheet. Did Austin play tonight? Did you see Matthews out there? Like it's really heartless. Meanwhile, we watched the 92, 93 Blue Jays and we watched Alomar step up. We watched Joe Carter step up. I mean, now I'm thinking of Whamco and then Hamcow. We watched All A Rude. We watched Pat Borders step up. You know, I'm just, I'm going to move on very quickly here because I'm not going to do a Leafs hockey rant, but absolutely it's missing something. We changed the coach. I felt good. The D was improved. I felt good. Stolarz. I know he's hurt,

but you know, Wall's been playing fine. I don't put this on him, but things were changed and it's the exact same result. We're probably bowing out in the second round in six games and that's just not good enough for this team. No, the top four, the top four are not doing enough. They're not doing nearly enough. Actually, they're the ones that's supposed to lead us over the top. We should have, we should be winning. If they score six, we should be scoring seven.

And that's what true leadership does. They bounce back, they answer. They constantly have an answer. Police have no answer. And with the guys turning into Casper the Ghost out there, it's just like, it's so easy to play hockey against them because they're not doing anything. I haven't seen Matthew, unless he's hurt,

maybe he's hurt, maybe there's something wrong, then you know what? Fine. We understand we'll hear about the three knee surgeries after the season and then be like, oh shit, well why would I feel mad at him? But then you're like, why is he playing? So then it's, we don't know, but something is missing for sure. And there's always been something a little bit missing with the Leafs in the last 20 years.

It's so difficult to piece it together, but it generally starts with the captain. And I find, I found that the captains have been kind of weak over the last few years you want your captain to be like we're used to Wendell Clark, Gerald Sittler these guys that will score goals and then fight you or send you through the ports that's what people want to see in hockey and that's what they want to see from their tough captain because that's what all a lot of the other captains are doing in the league but the Leafs have been lacking that kind of leadership. Like if somebody touched Doug Gilmore, one of those part was erasing

your face. Right? If somebody hits Matthews or Marner, nobody's erasing anybody's face. I don't understand. That's my take. Okay, that's that's hockey talk with Rob Butler. Okay, but he's managing the other Leafs not that leaves. Okay, so in in this is a really important question as we wind down here. Again, Rob, I love talking to you, but the next time we talk, we'll be in person because it's even better than but okay in 93, the 1993 Blue Jays, you were up in the big leagues, you were there for the World Series, who chose the music that would be played in the clubhouse in for the 93 Blue Jays?

the music that would be played in the clubhouse for the 93 Blue Jays? Well, whoever was either pitching that day or the leader on the team. So generally it was, well we didn't play a lot of music back then. Interestingly, we didn't have a lot of music going on. It didn't really start happening until a little bit after that, but it would have been Joe Carter. It definitely been somebody country music, you know, I mean, I think even Turner Warp put some music on. Rob Butler never had a choice because nobody wants to listen to 80s music. To listen to the spoons, you know, Honeymoon Suite, all the groups I grew up with, right? Can I tell you something? You just you just name drop two bands, FOTM bands, by the way,

you name drop spoons and Honeymoon Sweet. Next week in the basement is a member of both bands, Rob Proust. Yeah. He was a keyboardist for the heyday of the spoons. And then he left the spoons and joined Honeymoon Sweet. Absolutely mind blow that you dropped those two bands of all that story. I was always confused at the why that would ever happen, but it's funny. So I'm picking my kid up from school every day, and he wants to listen to Nova Heart, he wants to listen to Burning in a lot. He's so in love with the 80s as well. A 16 year old kid. And he's like,

why do I love the 80s so much? I said, well, have you seen your dad? So anyway, my son is now also someone who loves the old Canadian bands, which I always put on glass tiger. Oh my god I love last night. Oh, it's funny and I dropped an Alan Frew reference earlier Yeah, yeah, you did actually. Yeah That's a cute back into my brain, but okay, so I'm gonna I mean this will get this episode possibly removed from Spotify I'm gonna have an issue of YouTube, but it's worth it Anyways, I'm wondering did you ever hear this song in 93 when the Blue Jays were about to win their second World Series? Did you ever

hear this song in the clubhouse? I was just coming around looking for you the other day. World was busted. I'm slumbered on the lane I likey bum bum now Informer You know say that I'm a slumber, I've a glam I likey bum bum now Take the man and say say that I'm a slumber I'm slumbered on the lane I likey bum bum now These are the men who come in and they blow down me door Rainy cup of tea through my window So they put me in the back of the car at the station

From that point on my race my destination Where the destination region had a yeasty tension Where a look at me pants, look at me bottoms So Informer, you know, say then I'm a snowman I go playin' I like it boom boom now By any chance was Informer played in the 93 Blue Jays dressing room at some point? Say then I'm a snowman I go playin' I like it boom boom now

I didn't seem to it. When we used to go out to places like the Phoenix and the Barracuda, they would play it. You know, I met my first wife at the Barracuda. What's up? I met my first wife at the Barracuda. Oh, very cool. Nice. 21 Scholared Street.

That was our hangout back in the day, the old Barracuda. We loved going there on Saturday nights. Do you remember at all maybe because you have five years on me so we might have missed this but do you remember 98 cent beer nights if you bought before 10 p.m on Thursdays? Oh yeah for sure we were over that's when we went Thursdays we went to Phoenix and then we went to well we didn't know what I mean we were yeah I guess we had fun in the night. What the hell? Phoenix, uh, uh, barracuda and whiskey. Figon went to a lot of places. Me and my brother had a lot of fun.

Did you go to any, uh, uh, Chris shepherd live to airs on CF and why it. Yeah. And then there was, um, oh my God, who was at the Phoenix all the time? Uh, Martin streak. Yes. Marty streak. Who's's been gone sadly, shout out to Bailey Funeral Home, he's been gone 16 years this coming summer. These guys were all like icons for us when we were in our 20s, so fun times man, good times. Okay, but we're going to close by talking about FOTM Snow, okay? So do you understand the timelines?

I'm going to share the timeline and then we're going to tell everybody what's happening Sunday and then again, you've been awesome and I probably took more time than you had but I have no regrets. Last Monday, so last week on the Monday, Snow is in the basement here making his Toronto mic debut. Wow. Now that's impressive. Dude, you got to listen. It is mind blow after mind blow. It is just a wild experience. I've been telling everybody since that I was hanging with the snowman. I was in his orbit. Okay. Shout out to FOTM Paul Farberman, who literally drove him here. So snow's in the basement. that's Monday. Tuesday,

the aforementioned Keith Stein listens to Toronto Mike as he does and he hears snow on Toronto Mike and he just texts me an idea he has. I won't get too specific but it involves snow, it involves the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. So then I start texting Paul Farberman, the manager of Snow, who's also an FOTM and we text back and forth. He's a big Leafs hockey fan, so he's heartbroken today. But okay, so we start talking back and we're talking about specifics and putting something together. And then finally, I'm going to say on the Tuesday, at some point Tuesday, I connect Paul Farberman to Kiefstein so these two lawyers can work out this deal. And then I'm at Left Field Brewery with you for the press conference.

Ayami Sato is there, you're there, I'm there, the VP of Sales is there. Brad Jones from Ridley Funeral Home is there because Brad and Ridley Funeral Home are also a sponsor of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. And it is announced at this event, which is only two days after I connect these gentlemen. Snow is the official ambassador of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball and Informer that jam is the song of the 2025 Blue Jays. Sorry, what a slip that is the 2025 Maple Leafs baseball season. That's how it went down. Mr. Butler. Well, that's amazing. I'm who everybody in Toronto knows is snow is we all were fans of his music and who he was in his story where he came from. Because we all kind of like

especially guys in my town where I grew up in May and Danforth. We all could have been just like snow, right? I grew up with the so-called area six rude boys, gangsters who thought that they were, I don't know, running east end of the city. But these guys are break dancers and we be, they're all our buddies and we grew up together. So the break dancers would be here and me and my buddies and my brother would be playing burby, playing baseball,

a baseball game right beside them. And they jump in, play some baseball. They teach us a few break dance moves. And then they go jump over the fence at main subway station and ride the subway and street cars around town looking for trouble we all could have ended up like this but you know i chose the i chose a little calmer path for my life well i think a lot of credit might go to your dad on that one for keeping you on the straight and narrow path there yeah i wasn't allowed to tell my dad i was hanging out with the break dancers he would he would have been pretty upset with me. They were fun troublemakers. But I do find your story

and Snow's story, as Snow is actually a Darren O'Brien, it turns out Snow is like, I guess they were calling him Snow White because he was a white guy rapping back in the day. But it's interesting your story is like that he, you know know he kind of has a life of like petty crime and thuggery and ends up in jail a couple of times and you end up pitching in Regina again, no sorry playing in Regina against Tom Henke and you end up on the Blue Jays of a ring. But Informer goes to number one in the US and stays there for seven years and still an iconic song and has another life in 2019 because Daddy Yankee records con coma with snow and it's another huge huge hit

Second biggest hit of Daddy Yankee's career after the Despacito song that was everywhere. So really your two different paths, different people, very different mindsets. But my announcement here is that if you come to see the Toronto Maple Leafs play on Sunday and you watch Ayame Sato pitch her second start for the Maple Leafs of baseball, get there a little early. Fill that hill a little early because snow is throwing out the first pitch. Wow, that's gonna be exciting. That's

Did you know that? No, I did not know that. Hopefully, hopefully knows what handy throws with. I don't know baseball he's ever done in his life. No, he told me on the show. He told me he loved going to the CNE where he would pitch the ball and try to knock down yeah the milk bar radar gun he says he was great and i think he's gonna throw some heat well that one surprised me because he actually is a very athletic looking guy he's not a small guy he looks big and strong and still right he still looks like he can do some thuggery with a baseball

so we'll see i I'll be there to witness this. If any FOTMs want to find me at Christie Pitts on Sunday I'm going to put you in the snow orbit and introduce you to FOTM Snow who is probably also going to be at TMLX 19 on June 26th. So it's I would just say come out for Sato, come out for excellent baseball in Christie Pitts, come out to see how long Rob Butler lets Sato pitch, come out to see snow, just come out and enjoy it all. You can have a beer, have a hot dog, take it in.

Rob thanks for doing this buddy. Yeah, I love it man. I'll do it anytime. Anytime, I'll come back to the basement too one day when we win the championship. You better be down here. Real quick fun fact question for you on the way out. Rod Black who interviewed you in 93 after you won that World Series and is now involved with the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball another connect I connected Rod to Keith so I'm taking full credit for that one too. Beautiful. Rod Black.

I'm just here to, this is just to, you know, tell you all the ways I have improved your life, but okay. Rod Black has a son who plays for the Milwaukee Brewers organization. His name is Tyler Black. Rod has another son who's great at baseball. His name is Brody Black. Rob Butler. Did you is Brody Black. Rob Butler. Did you know Brody Black this season, 2025, is playing with the Brantford Red Sox of the

IBL? Yes, I did actually just learn that. And I'm still trying to figure out how the heck we didn't get him. 100%. This is my question. How is a part owner of the Maple Leafs, Rod Black, how is his son playing for the enemy? Why didn't Brody Black sign with the Toronto Maple Leafs? That's a very good question. I'm actually going to have to ask Rod and Brody. I coach both of Rod's boys, so I know

them very well. But yeah, that's an interesting one that we will learn and figure it out. I know he's got college. I know he's going back to college early, so he wouldn't be around for us to play in the playoffs anyways. So some of these guys will just pick up on a team that's gonna give him lots of playing time and computer things, so maybe that's what happened for him. But either way, we need one of the black boys in our team and hopefully Brody or Tyler will one day play for the Trollmike Police. And that, they'll be teammates of Joey Votto is what you're telling me. Okay. Brody or Tyler will one day play for the Trollmike Police.

And that, they'll be teammates of Joey Votto is what you're telling me, okay. And that brings us to the end of our 1693rd show. Yes, Rob Butler, this cover of Rosie and Grey from Lois de la Lowe was put together by the aforementioned Rob Pruse of Spoons and Honeymoon Sweet. See how it all comes together? Oh my God, my favorite. Thank you, guys. Go to torontomic.com for all your Toronto Mic needs. Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Monaris, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto's Skyline, and Ridley Funeral Home. See you all at 2pm when Clela Arrington is my special guest.

We'll be live streaming that at live.TorontoMike.com if by some chance you hear this in the next hour. See you all then. Bringing it down Rob before we say goodbye to say that's some spoons right there, romantic traffic. The Subway, I still remember this video, like I'm watching it right now. The Red Rocket. Red Rocket, that was a good video. You