Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Robert Lawson on Stevie Van Zandt: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1570

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

In this 1570th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Robert Lawson about what's new with The Guess Who and his new book Solidarity Forever: The Art and Soul of Stevie Van Zandt. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, The Yes We Are Open podcast from Moneris and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

What up, Miami? Toronto! VK on the beat, uh, check, uh I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm in Toronto right, you wanna get the city love My city love, when you're back for my city love I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love

I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm in Toronto right, you wanna get the city love Welcome to episode 1570 of Toronto Miked, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Robert's favourite beer, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta! Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. The Advantage Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada.

Learn how to plan, invest and live smarter. Season seven of Yes We Are Open, an award-winning podcast from Monaris, hosted by FOTML Grego. RecycleMyElectronics.ca, committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, returning to Toronto Mike is the official fact checker of the podcast.

It's Robert Lawson. Welcome back Robert. Hey Mike. Good to see you buddy. Yeah, it's been a little while. Well, since the summer, I guess. We saw you at Christie Pitts. You came out for a Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game. It was great to see

you there. Yeah, I try to go to a few games every summer and having you there was just a bonus. Okay, thank you. Okay. Some people say it was better before you got here. Okay. But you're, you're, you're on that camp and I met your wife and she's a lovely woman and it was great to catch up with you on that episode at Christie pits, your most famous. You came on originally to talk about the guess who right remind us the name of your fine book about the guess who. So four years ago, I think I published maybe not four years ago. Anyway, it's called Wheatfield Empire, the listeners guide to the guess who very thorough.

I've been, people have complimented me a lot on the level of detail and when it came out Burton Cummings himself posted a long thing on Facebook where he said that he learned some stuff about the band from the book. So to me that's the ultimate compliment. That is the ultimate compliment and you have a new book and we're gonna, so we have to do a little mop up on the guess who off the top But we will also talk about Stevie Vans and tell us the name of your new book on little Stephen So the new book is solidarity forever

The art and soul of Stevie Vans and so it's a detailed look at his entire career And you gave me a couple of beautiful, you know, just this morning, no joke, my daughter's reading this book, The Eight Year Old, and she asked me for a bookmark. And I invented, I just created one out of something, and now I'm gonna tell her I have a bookmark for her. You gave me a great bookmark here,

The Art and Soul of Stevie Van Zandt, so thank you very much. And Morgan, thanks you in advance. Okay, so we're gonna talk, little So we're going to talk a little Stephen. We're going to do a little mop up. We missed you at TML X 16. Were you working? Why were you unable to attend TML X 16 at GLB Brew Pub?

I think when, when you announced it, uh, I just wasn't sure if I could make it or something and the spots started filling up. I only had 40 spots. Yeah. So they started exclusive engagement. Very exclusive. You were on the outside looking in, but will I see you and I know I know you work at well, you're at sunrise in cloverdale mall, right. Right Christmas is the busiest season of the year for

you, right. Absolutely. We're ramping up. Would you be able to get away for an jumping up. Would you be able to get away for an hour or two on Saturday, November thirtieth to visit us at TM LX seventeen at Palmas kitchen in Mississauga? I don't know if I can get out there, but I sure would like to try. We need someone to swing by maybe Cloverdale and pick you up or something. Is that what I'm hearing here? Yeah. Is there a carp? Is there a FOTM carpool? I'll go into the not so secret whatsapp group and see if anybody can take care of you. Let's try to get let's try to get Robert Lawson the official fact checker of the Toronto Mike podcast. Let's try to get him to TML X 17 November 30th at Palma's kitchen because Palma pasta will feed you.

They're sending you home with a large lasagna today, Robert. That's for you. Thank you. Okay. I'm pausing for you to, you know, to, to thank me. I want you to kiss these rings over here. Okay. And of course we know you're a big Great Lakes brewery fan, uh, but you're not

wearing the GLB hat today. You got the, the Rex hat on today. Do I, I thought I wore a GLB today. I'm letting you know, Robert, I thought I might cause you know you, you teased me the first time with the GLB hat, but then you came up with the, the left field hat and I was saying, Oh, he better have the GLB hat on today, but you, uh, you don't have a GLB hat on today while still promoting Toronto jazz. Absolutely. Shout out to the Rex, but you're taking home some fresh craft beer with you. Appreciate that.

I'm doing this off the top because once we get smoking here, we're going to try to do a killer 60 minutes here. Maybe I'll save the other gifts for between the Guess Who talk and Little Stevie talk. But how do we get Little Stevie on Toronto Mike? Is this a possibility with Little Steven? Come on Toronto mic'd to help promote your fine book? It's something definitely worth looking into. He does do a lot of zoom interviews. I would zoom

with him. Yeah he does do a lot of that kind of stuff. So how friendly are you with him? Like how close are you to little Stephen? Well I've known him for a little while now. I don't know if he always remembers me as much as I remember him but now with the book coming out he's he's more than aware of who I am. Has he read the book? He hasn't read it yet but he was interviewed extensively for it. Well good good good. Okay so you're gonna try to get Stephen Van Zandt on Toronto Miked. I'll try not to ask him only questions about the

soprano so that's my pledge to you but can we start with a little fact checking you did an episode where you came over and we fact-checked the Randy Backman episode of Toronto Mike it was a I would call it polarizing because people either loved it or they like felt bad for they felt bad for Randy and they didn't like it but I personally loved that episode so can we start off with a little fact-checking of the guess who well I would just in response to that I would say that in that time and what we're doing right now you've invited me to talk about it. So if people are mad about

What what we're talking about it? Oh, no, it's not know at the end of the day the buck stops here like I'm the guy who presses record and then publishes the episode so I I was happy to publish your fact-checking of Randy Backman, but since then okay, there's a few things I need to cover with you. One is Did Randy make a public statement that the guess who was asked to play Woodstock? Yeah, so there's a there's a video going around. I don't know if it's part of a documentary or something. I think FOTM cam Cam Gordon. Yeah, I think he sent him carpenter. I think cam Gordon sent it to me Okay, and kind of asked, you know is is anything in here true? Okay, so let's

let's get that. I feel like I need a drum roll or something so so randy did share a story where the and do I have it right that the guest who was on tour so they were too busy to play woodstock but they were invited to play woodstock in nineteen sixty nine. What say you Robert Lawson? Well, actually he says and you know, it's a real short clip. It's just it's under three minutes, but he says that they were recording the American woman album and they were watching it on the news that Woodstock was this big muddy

mess and their manager was asking Randy. You know, do you want to come down and play while the festival is already in progress? And they couldn't do it because they were recording the album over 10 days. So if they had done it, maybe the album wouldn't have come out or it wouldn't have been the same. And it's just not in typical Randy fashion. It's not really true.

I asked Burton himself and he said the guests who were not asked to play Woodstock. I think it's also a stretch that they would be asked to play Woodstock while Woodstock was going on like you know, Randy saying that they're watching it on the news that helicopters are going in and bands aren't showing up and he's kind of taking a bit of a swing at the counter culture to in that clip. You know he you know he was never really part of the peace and love revolution or anything like that, so he he didn't like

that and he didn't do any drugs. Well, that's what he says yeah he's clean living clean living, but that's why he's still thriving in his eighties. You can in fact check that one. Well, but show me those medical records here, but they were never him. But when he says that they're recording the album over 10 days, so they're too busy to go, that's actually not true either. They did a couple of days in Chicago. So that was in in August of 69 right before Woodstock was kind of happening,

overlapping a little bit, then they didn't go back in to finish the album till October, so they were actually playing shows and I think I have it down on August sixteenth, which is during woodstock. They were actually recording a episode of American Band Stand, so his memory that they were too busy in the studio. That's just not true. They were free. I think a couple days later they were like in Sioux Falls or somewhere. I don't know. I was looking at some tour days last night so they weren't like trapped in some recording studio that they couldn't go, but all the bands would have already been booked way ahead of time. I'm reading the

Sly Stone autobiography right now and I just got to the part where he says that they were booked for Woodstock like in early July or something. So a month ahead, which for a show the size of Woodstock, like in early July or something. So a month ahead, which for a show the size of Woodstock, of course, these bands would have been booked way in advance. So that seems really late like to probably yeah sure. So you're saying that this is further embellishment from legendary rock God, Randy Backman. Well, again, I ran it. I ran past Burton and he said they were not asked to do Woodstock. My dream is to get Burton and Randy on the podcast at the same time and we just run through some basic

facts and see if they agree on anything. Well, Burton Burton has a very good memory and when I interviewed him for my book, you know, there was a couple of times that he would admit that you just couldn't remember something, which is fine. You know, he's in the seventies and he had a pretty rockin lifestyle. So I get that Randy likes to brag that he has a great memory and he had told me, well, I never did drugs. I didn't drink. So my memory is perfect, and it's just not okay. That's why you're here now in that same clip. I think it's

suggested that a studio was built in Chicago specifically for the guess who to record American woman what do you say about that I never heard that before I mean they were recording in a new part of RCA studio in Chicago I think the previous album they had done in studio a and this was studio B or vice versa, something like that. I hadn't ever before that it was built specifically for them. Okay. Now also I think last time you were, I believe during one of those Christie Pitts appearances when you were on Toronto, Mike, we were talking about how birding

Cummings had, what was his maneuver to prevent this new guess who from playing classic guess who from playing classic guess who songs like remind us what that move was and if there's an update on the guess who because I read somewhere that that ploy worked. It did well it helped anyway they he owns the copyright he owns the publishing for all the songs so he's allowed them to perform all these songs for all these years so after asking them numerous times to not promote themselves as the original guess who and not to use original guess who music to

promote their own concerts like they just kept doing it for years and years like so I understand like there might be a TV I don't know there because they don't they're smart enough not to play Canadian dates I noticed but let's say they're in some festival in I don't know Iowa or Something right. I'm just picking on Iowa today. I'm thinking a field of dreams. That's what because I'm thinking of Christie Pitts Okay, so we're in Iowa. There's maybe there's a TV ad running in which they would play Let's say these eyes would play over the ad but it would be the actual Bird and Cummings Get original guess who studio production. So the suggestion is

that if you come to this festival to see the guess who you're going to see the band that recorded this song you're listening to in love these eyes. I saw TV commercial just a couple of years ago for that guess who playing a casino somewhere in the States and it clearly had footage from the guess who reunion DVD that was filmed in Winnipeg in two thousand and one that's intentionally misleading. Yeah, so you know the guess who this other guess who used to say, well, it's the promoters, it's not us and after a while, you know, it's like no, this is going on for way

too long. So because burden owns the publishing, he took away the rights for them to perform any of those songs, which left them having to cancel tons of gigs. Yeah, because if they can't play American woman, what are they going to play? Well, Gary Peterson told me that the two most recent Guess Who albums of original material are just as good. If not better, they can play that. Yeah, just play that stuff. It'd be fine. That really messes up a lot of stuff like what I'm thinking of, like I'm

you know, discogs or like Wikipedia, like when you go to a band's page and you look at discography and then you'll see it. These new albums will be listed alongside, you know, the the wheat field stuff like the the O. G. Guess who material? Well, not only that, but on Spotify and right in places like that, even on the well, and on a lot of social media, they would change the band picture to be the current band and then underneath it. You know, yeah, you see the album cover for share the land and American woman and the guests whose Instagram

account at the time. They would also do things like on the anniversary of say the share the land album coming out. They would post a photo of it and just say oh remember this, but like none. You know you guys aren't the ones who recorded that and again, Peterson says name. Who's the link between this new guess who that is touring was touring as the guess who and the the classic line up so Gary Peterson, the original drummer, he was still in it. Okay, so after burden pulled the publishing, they went to court, took a couple of years and

the this new guess who they tried to counter sue. At one point, they were demanding like Burton not be allowed to say that he was the original lead vocalist of the guess who in his ads for his concert, but I guess he wore them down and of course he's not the original right, because chat allen is the original chat allen is the original vocalist. Yeah okay, he's like the okay. This is fat. I find this fascinating, so I feel as developments arise in the guess who universe you're going to have to make an appearance, be it at Christy Pitts or here at a tml X event like I need to know what's going on. So what's the current status of the new band that goes by the moniker? The guess who they've lost the

rights to use that name Bertin, Bertiner and Randy now on the rights to the name. So the band has changed their name to something weird and they have to the albums that they have out as the guess who those have to be taken off the market. They've had to rebrand their Facebook and anything like that. So they're no longer allowed to get a success story for it is so burden and Randy are in cahoots. They're allied and a line yet allied in this venture. Yeah, they they teamed up. I don't know if they had exactly the same reasons for doing it

because Randy's currently touring with a version of Backman Turner Overdrive that has no original members except for him. Okay, so that was one of the fact so we talked about is it Fred Turner was going to be touring with this new version of BTL, but it turns out no, it's Randy is Randy's son involved. Tell tell Tal Bachman is there, yeah. Okay, but everyone else is sort of, I don't know, a hired gun or something.

Yes, and the thing that I really have an issue with is that at some of these BTO shows, Randy's been telling the audience, so Fred couldn't make it tonight, but he's gonna be coming soon or something, or he will be joining. I have two different friends in Winnipeg who know Fred Turner and asked him, as soon as these tour dates were announced if he

was planning on participating and Fred is completely retired he has no interest in it he's not doing it so it is not really cool I think for Randy to be telling people like you know because first he was saying well Fred couldn't be here because he's sick and then there was an interview a little while ago where he said well Fred lost his wife so he's sick and then there was an interview a little while ago where he said, well, Fred lost his wife, so he's in morning. So so that's the reason why he's not on tour reasons, not on tours because he's not touring with BTO. He's not doing it at all. So I don't think it's cool that Randy is kind of baiting the fans that at some point if you go to see BTO,

Fred might be there. Okay, okay. good update here. I'm just checking out the live stream here real quickly because a lot of people want to see you. And it looks like we might have a live stream issue, but I am recording the episode. I'm even recording the video. So everything will be available in the Toronto Mike podcast feed. And of course, I will post this video on YouTube. I'll have to talk to Ian Service about why the heck this thing stopped playing in the middle here.

We have some disappointed people, but you know, the live stream is a bonus, right? Robert, this is not about the live stream. This is about the podcast recording. We're about to pivot to little Steven. I love your guess who updates, little Stephen I want to know basically the the origin like what made you decide? To write this book the art and soul of Stevie Vans and I've always been a huge fan ever since his first solo album came out and Kind of looking for a new project to do I because I'm such a fan. I already had a lot of raw data Just been collecting, you know, lists of concerts and discography notes and just all kinds of music nerd stuff that I do. I have a full filing cabinet full of all kinds of music document,

just documents and printouts and stuff. Right. So I already had a lot of stuff and it just seemed like a logical conclusion. You know, my buddy Frank says your whole life has been leading up to you being the guy to write this book and that's true. You know, I've really been documenting Steve's career for a long time anyway. What drew you to him though, like because there's so many big rock stars and you're a big music fanatic and I understand the guess who because you're a Winnipeg guy right right so like there I don't win a peg guy. But what what drew you to?

Steven I You know I was an eStreet band fan and a spring stone kind of guy and then when I heard a couple of songs off Steven's first album and without women it it just got me it just and to this day I think it's one of my favorite not possibly my all-time favorite album It's like Dylan singing with Keith Richard playing guitar, but Motown horns and just came together in a way that really clicked for me. Okay, so can we go back? I want people to, you know, pick up this book. How would

somebody get solidarity forever? The art and soul of Stevie Vans and well, it's right now it's a little. It's a little weird. It is available from the publishers website, freeze and press. It's available in the states on amazon.com. I think it's going to get added to amazon. Ca this week, hopefully, and then I have a big order for stock, so I'll have a ton of books in my apartment and at work so people can combine and get a say okay, so I'll have a ton of books in my apartment and at work so people can combine it. That's a say okay, so

not yet though. I don't want to send people there tomorrow, but the sunrise records at Cloverdale Mall, you could not only possibly very soon. We'll get the date from Robert a minute, not only pick up a copy of solidarity forever, the art and soul of Stevie Vans and but meet the author and maybe you'd sign the book. I sign books for people all time for some reason they they like that because it's exciting to get the author to sign your book but when will we have those books at the sunrise at Cloverdale I'm checking the I'm I'm like revising the web page and my my emails like an hourly basis so I don't

have tracking numbers yet but it is a large quantity of, so it takes a while to put those together. So I'm really hoping within the next two to three weeks. Okay, very exciting. So in time for the holiday season. Oh, definitely. Yes. Well, you got to come to tml x 17 with some books. Yeah, I could do that for sure. In this kitchen here, we just we promote that meet the author and will little Stevie make an appearance at TMLX 17 at Palma's Kitchen? I mean, you know, only because the Petrucci family, I can tell you Anthony Petrucci and his family owns Palma pasta. You won't find

a bigger fan of the Sopranos. And if I told Anthony that Silvio Dante was making an appearance at TMLX 17, he just loses mind. There definitely is a whole chapter on Sopranos in here. Okay, well, goodness, we're gonna cover a bit of grandeur, so let's do a little bit of Stevie talk, and then if you want the full deep dive, you know what book you have to buy. But how did Steven meet Bruce Springsteen? They met when they were like 15, 16 years old. They're both playing in New Jersey bands just as a lot of teenagers were after the Beatles were on

Ed Sullivan and Rolling Stones were on TV and so like that and just their kind of shared passion led them to become really close friends at that young age. So they're basically just New Jersey musicians. So of course, at some point their paths are going to cross. Yeah, but very young. There was a famous club in New Jersey called the upstage, which did not serve alcohol. So teenagers who were just learning how to play their instruments and were forming these young bands. They could actually play there and just get a lot of experience. Okay, very cool. The good news is we're back on the live stream. So I it's

funny. Who am I talking to except people on the live stream and when I went down, they probably bailed, but we are back on the live stream because I stopped the streaming and I started it up. And what do you know that seemed to have fixed it? So good news to everybody at live dot Toronto Mike dot com. So tell me a bit. Okay, so South Side Johnny and the Asbury Duke's Jukes, not the Duke's with with Stevie, a member of these bands, like Southside Johnny. So Southside was also one of those guys who was playing the upstage and they, you know, they had a lot of different bands. They were constantly in each other's groups. At

one point, there's a band where Stephen is on guitar and lead vocals and Bruce just plays rhythm guitar. Then they change the name and Bruce is on lead vocals and Stephen plays rhythm guitar and they, you know, so there's a lot of going back and forth. He's yeah, there's like I don't know, like 30 different band names from like nineteen sixty six to like seventy and they're all in each other's band. So by any chance, I'm going to put you on the spot here, but do you know the first Bruce Springsteen song that featured? I don't know an arrangement or contribution from Stevie Vans and

10th Avenue free side on the born to run album see I got the right man in the basement here for all my Stevie needs here. Okay, you're definitely going to deliver him to Toronto Mike absolutely. So what did he what did he do for 10th Avenue free so he wasn't a member of the band at that point of the street band, but they had some horn players like session guys who just weren't really getting the parts right and they kept trying and trying and and Stephen because he was arranging horns for their asbury jukes and so so Johnny he had a lot of experience with that.

So at one point, even though he's not an official member of the sessions, he's just visiting his friends. He stormed the stories. He storms into the studio and says put away those charts boys and he sings the lines to each horn guy of what he thinks they should play and that's what they ended up doing. So when you listen to the tenth, I have it in freeza yeah, freeze out on the born to run album. Those horn parts were dictated by Stephen and those horns, those horn parts are great on tenth Avenue, freeze out on the born to run album. Those horn parts were dictated by Stephen and those horns. Those horn parts are great on tenth Avenue freeze out like that's cool. Yeah, so that contribution led Bruce to

asking Stephen to rejoin the street band at that point, and so on the born to run tour was the first time that Bruce had a second guitarist. Okay, so that's nineteen seventy five right and now Stevie Vans and is an official member of the East, re band. Yeah, so by darkness of on the edge of town and seventy eight, he gets a co production credit by the river in nineteen eighty. He's a full fledged member of the production team and so he's always had a little bit more influence on the band than just other

guys in the group because I guess he was just so close with Bruce. So he's a guy that Bruce would often turn to with for advice, which ties into his role on the Sprano's. He kind of plays the same kind of character. Okay, we're going to get to sopranos. Absolutely here. But when does he leave? I mean, the first time, when does he leave the East Street Ben? So he joins it officially in 1975. And when does he tap out? 84. See now here, here's what I learned. Okay. And I, I went through your book and I had no idea because I wasn't like, I didn't really appreciate seventies Bruce. Okay. So I didn't the issue, Ben. So I come to Bruce, I, I become awakened by Bruce during,

uh, born in the USA. Sure, I said eighty five for you for eighty four eighty four. Okay, you're the expert here. Okay, so it's almost like I don't even really understand this whole East Street band thing until later, and I guess in my mind, little Stephen was always a member of the East Street band, like like to learn that he left the band. Why does he leave the band? Well, he, he started doing his own records and uh, that was sort of the official story. Bruce was taking a really long time recording and releasing the follow up to

the river, um, which ended up being born in USA in terms of a full band studio album. And so Steven put out an album in 82 called Men Without Women and at that point based on interviews he still thinks that he can do the E Street Band when Bruce comes back and then but then Stephen had a second album ready to go in 84 as well so they came out within weeks of each other and at that point they knew the Born USA tour is gonna be this massive global thing there's just no way that Stephen could do that and do his own album at the same time. And in real time you were a fan of these solo efforts by Stephen Vanzant

right? Oh absolutely. So can you tell me a bit I I honestly think I missed this like again I'm not as cool as you okay I did I did have a copy of born in the USA but what like what was the little Stephen solo material like just talk to me about it. Well, the first album is a real soulful album. He's got a big horn section and it's a real organic kind of thing. He changed a little bit his album in eighty four call voice of America is more of a hard rock album, no horn section anymore, more guitar

driven, but he always always has little bits of reggae and so like that. The third album freedom, no compromise in eighty seven has a lot of world music influences a lot of different language on the vocals, but I would say the men without women album is the one to start with for sure. Okay, I'm going to play it again. I've been having difficulty with Spotify, so I'm going to play a song just so they remove this episode from Spotify because I encourage all listeners of Toronto Mike to use a different podcast app, a different podcast aggregator to

consume your Toronto Mike episodes. What app do you use Robert Lawson? What's an app? How do you listen to Toronto might YouTube? I'll say yeah. Oh really? Okay, you're the guy. Okay here, let's listen to a little bit of this. I want to ask about this Na na na na na na na na I'm so chocked up I'm so about to go I'm so about to go I'm so about to go

Na na na na na na na na na I'm so about to go I'm so about to go We're Baka They're rappers United And strong We're here to talk they rappers, united and strong We're here to talk about South Africa

We don't mind what's going on It's time for some justice It's time for the truth We have launched this only one thing we can do We got to say ah ah ah ah Ain't gonna play some city This is the part that I always think of, uh, Living in America by James Brown. I don't know if you can hear any Living in America in there. Uh, that's funny you say that.

Why is it funny I say that? On, uh, in 87 when Stephen was touring his third album, he was doing this song live with Bruce Springsteen. It's the only time I've ever heard in the song they started repeating the chorus to Living in America. I've always heard it that way but why so let's tell the listenership I've learned long ago don't assume anybody knows anything because somebody is gonna learn for the first time about not only about Artists United Against Apartheid but Sun City this song the role of little Stephen

Talk to me Robert Lawson So Sun City the song was just gonna be a track on his third album that he was writing in the mid 80s And then they got the idea to have a couple of other people sing on it with him and that just kept expanding and expanding Next thing you know it became its own album with all kinds of different people singing on it but it is a Steve Van Zandt composition so he wrote this song he wrote it he's he's doing a lot of the lead vocals he plays guitar on it he does a lot of the keyboards and the programming it is a little Steven song

but now he's got on it Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen and Bono and Jackson Brown and you know just Pete Townsend. Africa Bambaata is on this thing. It's one of the first kind of pop or rock records that has a lot of hip-hop guys at the beginning and then there's a middle part to where they run DMC. The Fap Boys are on it all kinds of you know guys that maybe were not mainstream on like rock or white radio back then no you're 100% right like there is no hip-hop at all on we are the world no this is way more of a street sounding record than we are the world I mean it's got a real heavy beat to it and yeah you know I watched that

recent we are the world documenter. I thought it was horrible and the song is just like so vanilla and so safe where Sun City, especially if you see the video for Sun City, they actually time the drum beats to like footage of like police like whipping black protesters and stuff like that. It's pretty heavy stuff. It's a very important cause and as I read your book, it was interesting to read basically how. Here's a little hip hop on yeah like it's interesting to read how involved, how politically active little Stevie Van Zandt

was, and I'm sure he still is, but here's a cause. It's hard to believe because we both lived through it, but it's hard to believe not that long ago. The South African government had a policy of apartheid. Like in hindsight, it's like that was the case in 1985, but of course, absolutely it was. And to have these artists, you know, U2 is involved in this. You mentioned Tom Petty's on this jam. Like Sun City was a big deal.

Well, Petty's not. I wish he was. I wish he was. I'm going to fire my researcher. Okay, Tom Petty. I got, you know what? Rosie Greatio, the Sun City wiki page lists Tom Petty as being on this jam. Yeah, he's definitely not on it, but a lot of people are. So, you know, what was Petty up to? Come on, come on, Petty. Where were you buddy? But he's sort of like, I'm thinking now when I chatted

with mid year and we talked about, do they know it's Christmas and you know Geldof is the guy who would phone up everybody and get them all get you know get them all involved and midge year wrote the song so little Stevie writes the song but is he is like what role does he play in getting these whatever 49 or so artists together to record? Well, he kind of has a big part of it his co-producer Arthur Baker who comes from a hip-hop and rap Background which is where I think a lot of those elements come from He knew a lot of people too. Stevens just always known a lot of people He's more of a social guy than then Bruce ever was so he goes out to see a lot of bands. He produces a lot of other artists. He just knows a lot of people.

The same year that he did Sun City, he participated in a Bob Dylan recording session. So Steven just he just knows a lot of people. His Rolodex must be like huge. All the different musicians and producers and writers and stuff that he's crossed paths with. Yeah, more than just Bruce in that Rolodex. Well, I remember, you know, reading the first Springs... I mean, it's not the first Springs in biography, but there used to be a book called Born to Run

by Dave Marsh, and it mentioned at one point that the E Street band was doing some recording and the Stones were down the hall, and Marsh makes a point of saying but Bruce was too shy to go over to the stone session and talk to those guys but Stephen went right over and started hanging out with the stones. Wow okay so I want to talk more about I want to talk a bit about Stephen Van Zanten his his acting and his syndicated radio show but I want to give you Robert Lawson a wireless speaker from Minaris because things get spicy in episode three from season seven of Yes We Are Open when Al Grego

visits Nikhil Dutt, owner of Spice Circle. His family opened this restaurant back in 2019, despite having no prior business experience. Try to do that and make a success out of it not easy So everybody including you Robert should subscribe to yes We are open and listen to these fresh new episodes from season 7 because you ready for this owl went to Winnipeg These are all Winnipeg stories in season 7 Wow So we'll see if there's a Randy Backman fact check episode in there. I don't know. Were you ever a guest on Yes We Are Open?

Not yet. Does Sunrise Records use Monaris? Yes. You know what it will be. I, that's awesome, except you're not small enough a business. I feel like Al focuses on the smaller family run independent businesses. Sunrise is just too damn big, but how are things going over there at Cloverdale Mall?

How long do you have before they boot you out forever? I don't think that that's not happening at any time soon. I mean people I get asked about seeing the blueprints. How could it be forever? I get asked about it like almost a dozen times a day. It's coming man. They think it's so imminent customer just told me the other day that he took a cab to the mall and the cab driver told him that the mall's being torn down this year. Why would you tear it down like two months before Christmas? Sometimes there's some bad intel from these cabbies, but that is, is that approved? So we've all seen the, I'm not we have

all, but anyone who cares about Cloverdale Mall has seen that's just being you but no more than us, but we've seen these like pictures and blueprints of this whole cloverdale comp this whole community that they're going to build there. You're saying that's a years years, maybe light years away. I think a fact check in the condo developers. I think at least two to three years from now the sales office that was supposed to be open to the public. I think spring of this year is still not open. I mean it's over my appointment or something, but the it's definitely not happening in two thousand twenty five, and I would be surprised if it's

anytime even before the end of two thousand twenty six that they even start doing any work on it. So lots of time to get your butt to sunrise at cloverdale. So shout out to cloverdale shadow to that home hardware discounted chocolate. That's where I go for my discounted, you know that. I got a, and my dentist is in there. That's so, I'm gonna, I might be there tomorrow actually. Who knows?

I'm trying to get an early morning appointment just for my, every six months you gotta get in for a cleaning. I'll be there tomorrow. Okay, well come by and see you and tell you the reaction here. But what was I gonna say? So my mom, well I like it too, but I don't get out to it as much. I'm more of a

egolicious or all of man myself, but my mom very much enjoys going to the Dundas Street grill. Now that's not at Cloverdale Mall, but it's in the same kind of vicinity and that place is done. Like they're building some kind of a condo tower or something on that real estate. like condo tower or something on that real estate. There's definitely a lot of work being done until in a topical, but you know, honey do mall is still standing there as a skeletal remains of a shopping mall. I don't know why nobody's doing anything with that property. Yeah. The shut out to the honey do mall there. And also when the one more shout out is that I was reading years ago that the

Kipling Queens way, you know, where the Swiss chalet is there that whole they said that place is going Stuff is going in okay. That was pre-pandemic. I was reading about that So it's been five six seven years now and it's you know, I can still go to that Swiss chalet The Starbucks that used to be on the corner right when you go down to Kipling station They're doing a lot of work on that corner. They're actually they've broken ground there really quickly. But yeah, there's a lot of spots along the along Dundas there that they're nowhere near touching yet. Lots of cranes in the sky, particularly on wherever there's a bike lane, lots of cranes in the sky. I got to dig those up quickly. Okay. So I have in my hand for you, Robert Lawson,

before we get back to little Stevie. This is a measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home. Thank you. So shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Brad Jones was at TMLX 16 last week at GLB Brew Pub. Thank you GLB for hosting us. The food was delicious. The beer was delicious.

The company was great. All we were missing to make it perfect was a Robert Lawson appearance, but we'll try to make that happen at the Palmas kitchen for TMLX 17. Oh, maybe I can catch a ride with Tyler But I was gonna catch a ride with Tyler's so it's gonna be that's we did last year a little crowded I'm gonna see because these these events always conflict with my son's house league hockey and Mimico arena there So we'll see what we can do. But last but not least, recyclemyelectronics.ca. Robert, that's where you go if you have old

electronics, old devices, old cables that you need to get rid of. Don't throw that in the garbage. Those chemicals end up in our landfill. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca. Okay, I remember I'm keeping this to a crisp hour here. So I just saw a HBO doc about kind of like the making of Sopranos of David Chase, which I'm a big Sopranos fan and I love this documentary very much. And it really gives you some insight, but I don't want to just quote David Chase. How does this musician end up in such a key role on such a premium prestige HBO drama like the Sopranos? It's a it's a pretty

neat story. The story is that David Chase was watching the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame award and Stephen was giving an induction speech for the rascals, which of course were big, you know, sixties New Jersey pop rock group, a lot of great songs. So he was doing his bet. He's a bit of a funny guy. And, uh, he had, you know, just a real kind of funny speech.

You can watch it on YouTube. Uh, and he chase chase was really like taken with him. You really thought he had a character. I, I, there was an interview at one point where chase said Steve Van Zant's face is New Jersey. And so from there he reached out to Stephen and they had him do some auditions and eventually came up with this new character. The Silvio Dante character wasn't really originally a part of sopranos or at least not the sopranos project that chase was pitching to HBO at that time. So they kind of

came up with the character together. Steven already had the name. He had kind of been working on a character named Sylvia down to Dante, possibly for a script or something. So they combine that together and made this new character and like I said earlier, he gets this role of being like the second in command to Tony Soprano, the boss, which is a role Stephen was already very comfortable with playing that role in the street band with Bruce. Who's the boss? Of course it's, you know what?

I never even connected those dots before it's worth noting. Van Zandt is an invented surname because you'll be like, oh, he's Dutch or whatever, but that's not his actual birth name. Well his mother remarried when he was a kid so her new husband that that was his surname yeah. Okay but he's of is he of Italian descent? Yes. Both sides are Italian yes. Okay I want to make sure there's no cultural appropriation here of Silvio Dante you know how passionate I am about that okay Robert. No. No, he's definitely Italian. I've got photos in the book that have never been seen before of Stephen in 1989

going to the small village of Calabria, trying to find any missing relatives or something like that. So those are I'm really happy to be able to have those photos in there. I think even Stephen hadn't seen those in a while. OK, well, again, if I haven't said it enough, solidarity forever. to have those photos in there. I think even Steven hadn't seen those in a while. Okay. Well, again, if I haven't said it enough, solidarity forever. The art and soul of Stevie Van Zandt. If you're a fan of good music, good storytelling, or maybe you're just a fan of Bruce Springsteen,

or maybe you're just a fan of the Sopranos for goodness sakes, because I did read somewhere. Maybe I heard it in the dog. It's been a couple of months now, but did he want the did he try out for the role of Tony Soprano originally? Yes. Isn't that mind blow when you find out that Stephen Van Zandt all kind of even that there's a possibility that he would play Tony. I think HBO weren't on board with that just because he was not an actor and now I don't know if the character was quite

What we became to you know to know is Tony Soprano. I'm sure Gandolfini brought a lot to that role But yeah an early version of Sopranos before Gandolfini was involved chase did try out Van Zandt for the lead but I think it all worked out well. I think it all worked out man. James Gandolfini owned that character. What a great performance. It's one of the great television performances of all time. But I will say Stephen Van Zandt did a great job as Sylvia. So here's a show I did not watch and I'm not sure why I didn't watch it because it was one of the first Netflix shows I remember being original programming at Netflix. Lily Hammer. So the Sopranos, then of course he's in the Lily Hammer.

I saw him in the Irishman. Kind of wild that this musician is such a solid actor. Yeah, Lily Hammer is a lot of fun. It is a gangster kind of thing, but there's a lot more humor in it than Sopranos. You know, he's a New York gangster who goes into witness protection program in Norway, so he's hiding from his enemies. There are a few of his old sopranos co stars who make appearances in the final season

of Lily hammer. It only ran for three seasons. There's also worth watching like it's just sitting there and I don't know why I never watched it, but should I watch Lily hammer? Absolutely. It's it's a have a conclusion or it's no open ending or anything right? Do they end up because I just don't want to get into a three season that was intended to be for and they have like some cliffhanger stuff that no result. No it wraps up nicely.

They could always come back and do another fourth season if they were interested. But no it does wrap up nicely. Was that the first original series to be made by Netflix? Yes, it was like a co production between Netflix and this Norwegian television company. Fascinating. Okay, so I got to check that out and it's worth a fun fact that we need to point out when people talk about Stevie on the Sopranos is that his wife on the program is played by his real life wife, Maureen Santoro. Yeah, Maureen is the Gabriella Dante character in Sopranos. She also appears in Lily hammer. Okay, she is goodness gracious. Fun fact.

Also, when they got married, Bruce was the best man, right? Bruce was the best man. All of the street band members were there. It was the first wedding that little Richard officiated. He had become a minister. It's a there's a new Steve and then documentary on HBO called disciple as directed by a friend of mine and Bill tech and Bill and his team, including while there's a whole bunch of guys Robert Cato found footage from Stephen's wedding to Maureen and both Stephen and Maureen told the team that that footage

was missing. It was lost. They haven't seen it in years. It got thrown out by mistake somehow or whatever. And I think was Robert Cotto, the producer specifically who found the footage from the wedding. So I've always known about this wedding. There's a picture in Rolling Stone when it happened of little Richard, you know, doing the vows really wild to see it. So if you're interested in Stephen, this

documentary called Disciple is really, really informative, although my book takes a deeper dive into it. Here's nicely with your book, but it doesn't replace your book. No, absolutely not. I mean, kidding me, I'm disgusted at the sentiment. Okay. And also, Percy Sledge sings when a man loves a woman at this aforementioned wedding. Yeah. And they had the band from the Godfather movie in there. Yeah it's pretty wild. A lot of the Southside, not Southside himself, but a lot of the Hasbury Jukes were there. Like I said all the E3 band, Stephen's new group, the Disciples of Soul, they were all there. It was pretty wild. Some wild stuff. What

can you share with us here? Not a lot of time again. You'll be back. Robert Lawson will be back whenever there's news and the guess who or Stephen Vans and universe will get Robert Lawson back on. But what can you share with us about little Stevens underground garage? So it's been running for a long time now,

like over 20 years. I think he breaks a lot of new bands. They do these kind of festivals in the States occasionally with like 25 different groups from his label, but he also gets other kind of psychedelic or garage bands even from the sixties or seventies to reunite. He's been a big proponent of pushing classic kind of garage rock and roll and psychedelic rock and roll for years. Now,

there was for a while. There's a series of CDs of like all the best of the underground garage and you know one of the things about the book that that Stephen said to me was and it and it really struck me. He said of all the things that I do playing in the street band producing artists doing a record label acting on you know gangster shows my own music is what people talk about the least amount. So that's why this book is important to him.

So it's great to cover all that kind of stuff because his career is so interesting in that way. But also I want to talk about his music and it's I don't bury this lead, but birding Cummings and Stephen Van Zandt are two fantastic musicians who will take Robert Lawson's call. Am I right? They'll take your call or they'll just reply to a text or an email. Yeah, I'm seeing Stephen on November third. I'm supposed to be presenting him with a cop, his own copy of the book. So hopefully that's happening. That's like in a week and a half from now or something. So I better get those books

on time. Okay, and I'm going into my calendar. This is exciting because I'm going into my calendar to find out what day can we go today? Here we go. What day is oh the fifth? No, not the fifth. I'm lying to you. Come on, might get this right here. The six. Yes, I'm seeing Bruce Springsteen in concert on the sixth of November. My first time seeing him. Oh, wow. Will you be catching them?

This, Stevie must be able to put you on a list. Well I'm seeing them on, they're doing two shows in Toronto. So I'm seeing them on the third and I'm going to be seeing Steven specifically before the show to present him with the book. Dude, this is amazing that you're going to have that moment. Make sure you capture video. I'm sure. Will your wife be with you to get a good photo? She'll definitely your official photographer, which is odd because she should people should be taking pictures of her. Well, I do don't worry. I've said too much here. Okay, so

come on. I told you she what do you call your punch in? Is that the term that we're using now? You're punching above my way? Yeah, I heard on some British thing. I was watching. He goes, you got punch in mates your punch in and I realize, oh, that's a faster way to say you're punching above your weight. Yeah. Okay. Good for you, though. I am too. So we're all in the same gang here. We're all in the same gang here. So now I see that. So Bruce has a concert on the third. It sounds like I'm saying him on the sixth, fourth and fifth seem to be empty. Which one of those days you want me to put Stephen in the Toronto Mike recording calendar? Which one of those days is he going to visit the basement? I don't know if he's staying in town between shows. A lot of people don't seem to understand that they don't necessarily stay, especially he lives a great city. Why not stick around? Well, I could, but you know, he lives in New York.

He might want to sleep in his own bed. That's true. That's true. There are these things called airplanes. Okay. Fun fact. Some of these artists, I'm going to name some artists that have covered songs written by Steven van Zandt. Okay. In addition to Bruce Springsteen, the late great meatloaf, Nancy Sinatra, Pearl Jam, of course, Southside Johnny.

We talked about artists united against apartheid and that's a pretty cool little list right there. So Pearl Jam, do you know what song Pearl Jam recorded that was written by? Do you know Stephen Van Zandt? I am a patriot. Okay, look, you're which is also covered by Chris Christofferson and Eddie Vedder does that one solo as well. Quite a few times giving me chills here. Okay, Jackson Brown does that one too. Wow! Okay, okay, running on empty over there. Now we're running an empty because I don't have a lot of time, so I'm going to give you this

last five minutes. I see you got notes in front of you. You're very thorough. Are these notes? What are these notes? I just wrote that was just a you didn't know. I'd be asking these difficult questions. I was just a couple of dates for the randy talk. Okay, I'll get the rain right there any talk. Did I miss anything that we should be fact checking on the guess who front? I don't think so. I mean, like I said, the big news is that the name has reverted back to Burton and Randy. I don't know what they're going to do

with it. Well, that's my question. Will they do shows together? We got to make hay while the sun is out, because I don't know how old Randy is now, but I would guess 82 or so. Am I close? He's up there. Yeah, like, like, you know, you got to make it like I make. I like that expression.

OK, make hay while the sun is out. If we're going to get a guess who tour or whatever, like the real guess who now is the time. I don't really see how it could happen because the guys that Burton's been playing with he's been playing with them for a really long time. So I don't really see Randy burn and those guys, the carpet frogs going out as the guess who I mean they could I don't I just don't know if they really would and I don't know how many other ex real guess who members are either on good terms with the guys or are interested

in doing it. So I don't know. Well, speaking of Burton, do you know the name Tim Bova Conti? Of course he's burdens guitar player. Okay, so what what more do you know? So so Tim is the current guitar player for burden Cummings, one of two guitars. Yeah, okay, he'll be here tomorrow. Oh, is that a weird coincidence? Well, Yeah, Tim's gonna make his Toronto Mike debut tomorrow will be on the live stream at eleven a.m. and I'm looking forward to talking to Tim and there's, you know, we'll talk a lot about birding coming, then I'll drop your

name. I'll make sure he knows if he has any interest in little Stephen. I see your t shirt and the disciples of soul. Very cool. We'll get to see that in the photo here. I'm about to play a little Rosie and Grave from Lowest of the Low, but is there anything else about Little Stevie that you think is a fun fact before people, you know, rush out and buy the book? Again, you know, to me his career is just really interesting because he covers so many different things. I was surprised. I saw the documentary in New York City as part of the Tribeca Film Festival.

They were showing scenes from Sopranos and like some of Stephen's famous kind of funny scenes from Sopranos and people in the audience were laughing like they'd never seen it before. One of the things he used to do a lot more in the beginning, but he would imitate the Godfather. Like he would break into his his every time I get away. They suck me back in or whatever, and it would amuse Paul in the game. Yeah, so there seems to be a lot of people. I didn't really know this was the case who don't know that the guy in spring scenes band is also on sopranos

or vice versa that they haven't really put that together. And I'm hearing that more from people now, like since I've been working on this book, do you think we've overestimated mankind? And I mean that non gender specific mankind because I think the other day I was going to nickel, Nicolette Larsen covered a Neil Young song and I was going to share it on toast with the Neil Young version of this song. So it was Young song and I was gonna share it on toast with the Neil Young version of this song because it was his song and then my son told me that everybody knows Lotta Love is a Neil Young song

and then I said, well, there might be someone out there and then I did it and on the live stream, there were several people who were learning that for the first time. Do you think we just assume everybody knows things like Sylvia O'Donvio Dante is little Stevie from the East Street band do you think we maybe we should just like not assume anything anymore because how do you know that if you're of a certain age if

nobody points it out to you probably true and if if like me you mostly hang out with guys who know a lot about music right and know a lot about movies and so we're in our own bubble you We're in this bubble. You're right. We're in this bubble. You know, I'm not going to bore Cam Gordon with this fun fact or whatever, because of course he knows that, but we can't assume the the great unwashed are as versed in these fun facts and mind blows as you and I are Robert every couple of months. I see somebody on Facebook saying, did you know that the spaceships on the cover of the first Boston album are

actually upside down guitars and I'm like I thought everybody knew that. I think I thought I knew that in like nineteen seventy eight or something. What are you talking about and and and all the comments would be like oh my God, I've never saw that or I never knew that so oh geez man. Well, you're here not. Maybe I just told a whole bunch of people who didn't know before. I didn't know that, but I'm going to tell you privately later because I have a reputation to uphold Robert of course, but you know what it was the album again, men without women, no, no the first Boston now right. Okay, so she's okay. Look no

that's a that's mid seventies release seventy seven seventy seven. All right, so That's mid 70s release 77 70s. All right, so that's my Sesame Street fever era. Maybe it's pre that maybe I'm that maybe there's a hippo in my back. You know what that is? That's the teddy bear's picnic era. I think so, you know, me and some of the other young ins out there are forgiven for not knowing what the cover of this Boston album looks like. We just know more than a feeling from compilations and classic rock radio. Sure.

So I'm going to come on. Okay. Well, I'm glad that I let you know. But that's the heat. You ended high because I love it when I learn something like that. So I'm going to go Google. What the hell does this cover look like and say, holy shit, those are upside down guitars. That's what I'm going to do, Robert. Robert, always a pleasure to talk

to you. I hope to see you tomorrow at sunrise in a Cloverdale mall before I talked to before I talked to Bird and Cummings guitarist. So I hope to see you then and let me know when those books are there. Because then I'll blast. I'll tell people on the podcast to get their ass to sunrise at Cloverdale to get a copy of the wonderful new book you've read and some people have trouble reading a book. You write books. Okay, solidarity forever. The art and soul of Stevie van Zandt. Thanks for dropping by buddy. Thanks Mike. Always like being here next time where the Great Lakes hat. Okay, I'll bring my wife, bring your

wife and bring your wife because she can take photos of you during the show and bring the Great Lakes Hat because that's the most delicious craft beer in this province. Absolutely, and that brings us to the end of our one thousand five hundred and seventieth show. Go to Toronto Mike dot com for more about me. Robert, where do you want to send people so they can follow your adventures and buy your books etc etc? Instagram or Facebook I'm posting any new updates on the book there as soon as we get them Trying to let as many people know about this one as possible so that at least The awareness factor is up so as soon as I get the books will be posting videos and probably gonna do a video

I think later this afternoon to just kind of clarify them for some people That I don't have the books yet, but they are coming very soon But like I said before people in the States you can order them now from Amazon.com and the publisher Friesen Press they they have them in their online bookstore as well Much love to all who made this possible. That is Great Lakes Brewery. That's Palma Pasta. That's RecycleMyElectronics.ca. That's Raymond James Canada. That's Minaris. That's Ridley Funeral Home. The reason I only had an hour with you, Robert, is I'm about to co-host a webinar with Barb Paluskiewicz

in the guys Elvira. I was like, what the hell is her name? It's Halloween, which I should know. Elvira. So she'll be dressed as Elvira. And then I'm going to get my ass to One Yorkville and I'm going to chat up, not for Toronto Mike, but for a client. I'm going to chat up Olympic medalist Alicia Newman. That sounds like a pretty good day. See you all tomorrow when Tim Bov cause everything is rosy gray. Well, I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain.