Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ron Hawkins, Stephen Stanley and Hugh Christopher Brown: Toronto Mike'd #1112

Episode Date: September 16, 2022

In this 1112th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined by Ron Hawkins, Stephen Stanley and Hugh Christopher Brown as they discuss Lowest of the Low, the Bourbon Tabernacle Choir and more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

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Guaranteed. Over 100 stores across the country. Learn more at cannacabana.com Today. Together. Today, together in person, are Hugh Christopher Brown, Ron Hawkins, and Stephen Stanley. Welcome, guys. Hey, Mike. How's it going, Mike?

What is this, a crossover episode? So, Hugh Christopher Brown. By the way, I always called him Chris Brown, but I saw you're calling him Hugh Christopher Brown. Is that because of the other Chris Brown? That's just an in-joke with us. Yeah, it's kind of for that reason exactly, I think. It's a professional name, but he still answers to Chris.

Okay, he's here. So I was about to announce that. Okay, so this is exciting. So I have Steven and Ron here, and Chris was running a bit late, so he's joining us in progress, but that's right now. Everybody, Chris Brown is exciting. So I have Stephen and Ron here, and Chris was running a bit late. So he's joining us in progress, but that's right now. Everybody, Chris Brown is here. Okay, watch your head, Mr. Brown, because, yes, okay.

We weren't sure which Chris Brown we were going to get. Okay. I changed my name to Ron Hawkins so you wouldn't confuse me with Ron Hawkins. Any thoughts on the passing of Romp and Ron Hawkins? Like, what were your initial thoughts when you're... Zero thoughts. Zero thoughts. Did you guys have thoughts?

I had thoughts because I have friends that have a cottage on Stony Lake and we boated past the compound a couple of years ago. And then I started looking into all the history in that building and that Lennon had stayed there with him. And that he had... And he ran up that phone bill. Vladimir Lennon? Vladimir Lennon.

And then he had a nice, a real nice gallery in there that I would have liked to have seen. But I think part of the deal of the sale of it was that that would be maintained, but I don't know. I'm speaking through my hat right now. So Chris, you just joined us,

so I need to tell you now that these mics are unidirectional and you got to be as close as you can. You do the short straw, that's why you don't have the... you got to be as close as you can. You do the short straw. That's why you don't have to. Who knows about mic technique? Thank you. Say hello to everybody, Chris.

Hi. How's it going? Everybody can watch Heaven's Gate and watch Ronnie Hawkins' performance in that. Oh, that's right. Yeah. You can spend four hours doing that. Okay, Chris, you're going gonna have to get uh i just see a little bit even more even more close yeah absolutely it's nice to see you in three

dimensions i last time i talked to you was in two well hey thank you because right off the top i'm gonna let people know like where they can find your initial deep dives because yeah chris we're meeting for the first time we did a zoom. But in May 2016, Ron Hawkins, not Rompin' Ronnie Hawkins, but Ron Hawkins from Lowest of the Low came over. That was episode 175.

Mike chats with Lowest of the Low lead singer and songwriter Ron Hawkins about Shakespeare and My Butt, success for which you're unprepared.

That's what I wrote. Gore Downie. I'm sorry about that. I'm getting used to it. The Perfect Marriage of Peace and Quiet and Tim Thompson's Maple Leafs Montage and much, much more.

So May 2016, that's when you made your debut. November 2017, this is episode 282, Mike and Stephen Stanley chat about his career in music as part of Lowest of the Low and the Stephen Stanley Band. And then we played and discussed your favorite songs of all time, Stephen.

That was great. We kicked out the jams. They've all changed since then, but that was good. Come back and do it again. Chris, we met via Zoom in March 2022, and that was episode 1018. And I wrote, Mike is joined by musician Chris Brown as they talk about the Bourbon Tabernacle Choir being a duo with Kate Fenner, touring with the Barenaked Ladies and the Tragically Hip, and what's happening on Wolf

Island. So welcome to all three of you. This is awesome. Thanks, Mike. Nice to be here. Sorry to be late. That's okay. We started without you, but we barely got going here.

So I don't even know where to begin, except how did you three end up, like, this sounds like a super group here. Like this is some kind of, is this like the Traveling Wilburys? What's going on here? How are you three end up like this sounds like a super group here like this is some kind of uh is this like the traveling wilburys what's going on here how are you three hooking up here we think of it more of a as a supper group we're probably going to have a lot of dinners when we're on the road um it was so i mean you know how ron and i we were both in a band called low i don't know how you do let me tell you about that we're in the 90s we're both in a band called popular front on popular front that's right and a magical time called the 80s we were in a band called lowest let me tell you about that we're in the 90s we're both in a band called popular front on popular front that's right a magical time called the 80s we were in a band called popular i met steve because dave are the drummer uh in lowest low was also in a band called

social insecurity with me in 1983 and 84 and then we broke up as a band but dave and i started working and i think dave said i know this guy or he knew a guy who knew a guy named steve stanley and we met and then it was like we were kids man it was like i remember meeting steve and going like it was just sort of like i get this guy he's a he's another crazy kid like me who just wants to make this music wants to rock uh and that whole transaction with dave took place on the platform at the young subway station where, where I met him. We'd met at a party and hadn't really talked, but then we ran into each other at the Young Subway Station,

and through that conversation, I was invited to come audition for the band. And on the same day, I think we auditioned four keyboard players. Remember that? Yep. None of which have survived. What do you need a keyboard player for? That's what I kept saying.

I was going to say, name those people. None of whom survived, Chris. You might want a second. It's like spinal tap in drummers. It kept exploding. Well, okay. So before I find out how Mr. Brown came into the mix here, you two, okay, so you two are founding members of Lois.

I'm talking to Steven and Ron right now, but founding members of Lois to the Low, but of course, I don't know if it's 2012, but at some point, you know, famously in Canadian rock circles, Stephen, you left the band. Like, but, and then I don't, I don't know anything except I have you guys on and I talk to you, but it felt like, oh, that's kind of sad

that Stephen Stanley is not in Lois to the Low. But you two, I was just chatting with you in the driveway, like clearly you two, Ron and Stephen, you guys get along great. So was there a period where it was frosty and then you warmed up to each other again? Or can you give us the inside here? That's such a silly talk, Mike. It was completely manufactured to sell records,

and it just worked perfectly. We tried it for six years and then decided, this isn't working. We might as well put that together. We've had two very frosty periods in our professional musician lives. Let's talk about that. How much do you want to know? Everything.

Even though I haven't really discussed the sort of ancient aliens aspect of it, but it's like, I think both were for six years. Six years, exactly. It's an interesting numerology going on. And what's the date today? This is September 16, 2022. So my last show was nine years ago on September 21st. I know that because of a little thing called Facebook

that just gave me a memory the other day. And I just passed the rehearsal space where we had our last rehearsal. Right. Rehearsal factory was out here in Mimico. Yeah, it's true. So how did you kiss and make up just time heals all wounds or what happened there with our lips full lips uh the

first time was very much the responsibility of a of elliot lefkoe bringing us together in a room to discuss the idea of playing some shows the second time was probably r because I, I can just hold grudges forever. So, so Elliot Lefkoe and Ron. Okay. Yeah. Elliot Lefkoe, big fan of the show. He actually gave it a five star review on Apple and said something about like a, what a wonderful,

great podcast. And then I had a exchange with him like, Oh, why don't you come on? I'd love to chat with you. Cause his brother's been on his brother, Perry Lefkoe, but in Elliot's like,

no, thank you. So he's a big listener not interested in guesting so okay you would have you would have stories though boy i know i think i could wrap up this steve and i thing yeah if i if i may be so bold uh it's to say like you know there's a lot of strain uh doing this is an unnatural thing to do being in a band with people isn't a completely unnatural thing to do and it's not it's the kind of commitment that you wouldn't have with anybody else in the world including your own mom you know like just being

in a van and being in times and places where you're tested and on top of that you're trying to do something that involves the deepest part of your own commitment and ego so you find yourself in these places where you're sort of like pushing up against each other when when it's all firing in the same direction it's absolute euphoria, but sometimes, often, as you know from every music doc you've ever seen, it starts to bump or rub, and usually that's because of things outside of the art. And then, you know, and then Steve makes mistakes.

No, and then, you know, then I make mistakes and Steve makes mistakes, and then we're fighting, and then there's a big distance. But I think each time it seems like suddenly we have some cold water in our face and go, this person is my brother and I've been through things in my life with this person that I haven't been through with anybody else. And it's ludicrous,

you know, and maybe, maybe it's a mortality thing as you get, as, as we get closer to the sweet release of death, um, you know, it seems more important to kind of make sure you honor the things that are you know and there's a lowest to low documentary being made and i

caught myself saying in the moment like when you're in it you don't take the time to honor people you know like when you're in it right and i say in the thing like when i was in it with steve i didn't take the time to go wow those are some sweet licks you're putting down on those songs of that and you know that helped make those songs you know because when you it, you're just, you're a little bit in your own silo and you're kind of just working away. We were really good at being just like day to day. We weren't thinking ahead at all. And day to day was almost every day.

And that was a problem. And, you know, the funny thing about, I know we're going to move into talking about how Chris is involved in this because chris was having a parallel experience i can't i think maybe uh if only he were here he could if only we were here but he was like you know we were both both our bands in the 90s were on the road doing like 200 close to 360 shows i think we did one year so we didn't know each other well but we knew each other for sure because we would cross paths whenever we were in the same town or had a day off. So everything that happened with Chris was based on me working with him

after the fact, like, and we've, we've now made two records together, one that's out and one that'll be out in the new year. So that's kind of been the reason the three of us have come together. And this whole thing happened for one reason only ron and i were talking at some point when we started you know started started talking again we said we should

do a show and i said well we should do it on wolf island because chris has a great thing going there and he said yeah well chris should play too and then that turned into us doing eight dates together and wow in the next i remember it as saying like i need a summer home and steve said i want a big yacht and we decided that this was the best way i thought it was all based on owl burgers owl burgers out there we got a palm of pasta so i should tell you all right now since you said palm of pasta that you are all three of you are getting uh large lasagnas frozen lasagnas no joke and chris i know you're a vegetarian thank you joke. And Chris, I know you're a vegetarian. Thank you. It's widely known that you're a vegetarian.

I have a vegetarian lasagna for you, buddy. So you got a vegetarian lasagna. These two gentlemen, they get the meat. It's beef. It's not owl. We talked about. There's a lot of snowy aisles on Wolf Island. And you're going to have to get much closer to the mic.

I will. I know. You drew the short straw because you were late, so they got the good seats. But Stephen does have, Stephen, I was looking at your musical history. You have a thing for Chris's. It's a bit of a fetish, I think,

because you got Chris Bennett, you got Chris Rellinger, you got Chris Brown. There's a lot of Chris's around here. There's a lot of Chris's, and then there's DJ Chris Powers on the island. At one point, we had four Chris's in the room when we were making, uh, we were making Jimmy and the moon.

So, and Ron has a fetish for Steve's like, you know, they're all trouble. And my brother's name is Steve. So shout out to my brother, Steve. Typically it's usually Mike's we're all buried in,

but Chris, um, I got a nice note here from Jeff Merrick. In fact, as I read this beautiful note, I'm going to start, uh, a song. Okay., as I read this beautiful note, I'm going to start a song. Okay, so just to warm us up to you.

Jeff Merrick sent me a lovely note yesterday. He said, love the bourbons. Saw them countless times. Brown is outstanding. Let's keep it simple. And Kate Fenner's voice is hauntingly beautiful simple is an all-time for me wow so that's a nice note from jeff about the bourbons where is kate by the way uh i just left her in new york uh two days ago but she's going to join

us on this tour in toronto for the drake New York two days ago, but she's going to join us on this tour in Toronto for The Drake. Shout out the dates, because I know what's going to happen. We're going to get talking. You guys are going to actually play, which is unbelievable. And then we're going to realize we rapped

and didn't tell people that they can see this trio. Thanks, Jeff, for that lovely note. Shout out these locations and dates and be clear about which one Kate Fenner's going to be singing at, but where the heck can we see you three? I think I can do them all. It starts September 29th in Owen Sound at the Heartwood Music Hall,

and then it moves to Peterborough at a place called Jethro's on the 30th, and then October 1st we're at the Hotel Wolf Island, which is on Wolf Island, and then on the 2nd we're at Motel Chelsea in Chelsea, Quebec. Which is Wakefield, basically. Which is Wakefield, yeah.

And then there's a couple well-earned days off. And then we pick it up Wednesday the 5th in Hamilton at the Mule Spinner. And the 6th, we're in Fergus at the Grand Theatre. Hamilton at the Mule Spinner. And the sixth, we're in Fergus at the Grand Theatre. Seventh, in Buffalo at the Oxford Pennant Room, which is the new room attached to the town ballroom. This is all off the top of your head. I'm impressed.

And this is if we don't break up after the first weekend. Or after this conversation. And then Toronto on the 8th at the Drake Underground. And that one, Kate's at the Drake. Okay, and the 8th of October. We have a real nice nice group of people opening up mostly different for every show but there's a nice uh group of musicians that are going to be playing with us so it's going to be a lot of fun amazing uh this morning just

before uh you guys arrived here i recorded with mark hebbshire because we record hebsey on sports every friday morning at 9 a.m and i mentioned to Hebsey that you guys were all coming over. And he said, loved Chris and Kate when they joined the Tragically Hip on stage during their Music at Work tour in 2000. Anybody talk about us? Not so hot on those other two, but... I said, yeah, I literally was promoting, you know, Ron Hawkins, Stephen Stanley from Lowest to Low. And then, and of course, Chris Brown from Bourbon Tavern Enquirer.

And all the notes come in about, oh my God, Chris is going to be there. That's unbelievable. So welcome, Chris. Great to finally meet you and get you here in person. It's nice to be in my hometown. I, you know, I miss it. I'm here periodically because my mom's still here and I still come here

and play and work but it is really nice to be home in Toronto How's Wolf Island because my guest yesterday is a guy named Gare Joyce who lives in Kingston and part of our jokes, we were joking in the driveway before you got here about the snowy owls because Gare and his wife will take the ferry to Wolf Island

just to see snowy owls Have you encountered many of see snowy owls. Have you encountered many of these snowy owls on Wolf Island? Oh, yeah, a ton. Okay. All the white birds come through in the winter. In fact, 4% of migrating species on the continent come through there because it's the world's biggest estuary. Lots of birders there.

Yeah. Well, yeah, lots of birds. I said that in the driveway, and we thought I said burgers, and then we started talking about snowy owl burgers and I know you're a vegetarian and that's very offensive. We're all actually against it. I think even if I wasn't

a vegetarian, it would be offensive. For the record, we're all against turning owls into burgers. We will not eat any owls. It's pretty offensive. Wolf Island is great, thanks for asking. It's going to be fun to play the hotel which we've really

worked hard on the last year and a half to just you know it's just returning it to what it has been historically it was built in 1860 and it's now very much a place for music in the arts it's a farmer's market it's a farm to table restaurant um and kind of civic uh water and

art space so it's yeah it's it's good it's gonna be lovely to play there everybody's really in anticipating the show well there is a note actually for steven and and Ron that came in. So a couple of days ago, Dave Bedini was over here and I mentioned you guys were dropping by and he would like me to ask you two from Lowest of the Low to chat about, do you remember the first time the Rio Statics and Lowest of the Low played together?

Yeah, 100%. That was at Edgefest 1993. And I mean, it was all interesting because of uh well i mean you can you can tell your own story about about the the uh intake of alcohol over the course of that day if you want to but but the cool the funny thing that i remember the most was so we were co-headlining with the rios there was a a dual stage setup where there were drum kits back to back. And we were going on second last and they were going on last,

but we were both sitting. Is this Molson Park? No, it's at the Ontario Place Forum, the spinning stage. Oh, the spinning forum, right, right. So we were both sent out to set up at the same time, so we were both ready to go. And at one point our manager came over to me and said, we've got a problem. And I said, what's wrong?

He said, well, the drummers, both the drummers are setting up on the wrong side. So Dave was setting up on the Rio side and, and Dave Clark was setting up on the other. There you go. More Dave's two Dave's was setting up on the lowest, the lowest. These are the Dave's I know.

Yeah. Anyways, it was a smashing set literally. And I remember the stage really spinning. Yeah, it was, we got there at noon i think and yeah you would think we would know better no but we got we were playing at nine so we hit the beer tent at noon and uh i there was a point where i was in my underwear uh heading for the stage and our manager frank said ron what the hell are you doing and i was like it's okay Frank I had a shower. No you and I had a big discussion about that because

you were very passionate about the idea that it was time that we played without any clothing on and I was like no this wasn't the time we're not going to do that next week. That's like a Red Hot Chili Peppers move I think. It wouldn't have been as curated let's

just say that. all of the socks I think what's the legend of the Gary's I was wearing socks when police played at the Horseshoe Tavern apparently Sting ended up in his underwear is what I'm told like the first time when there was like nine people checking in

Sting ended up in my underwear that day too no the crazy thing about this though Mike the cautionary tale about that story is not just don't be a an idiot rock musician and drop all of your responsibilities that day uh which is you know i i apologized to frank the next day because we had gotten in this big fight about merch because there was a we sold our t-shirts for i don't know 15 20 bucks at the time and the festival was selling their t-shirts for, I don't know, 15, 20 bucks at the time. And the festival was selling their t-shirts for 50 bucks or something. And we were like, well, there's no way that's happening. And we were the second last band.

So it was kind of, you know, ballsy for us to get feisty about it. But we got really feisty about it. And Frank, God bless him, would always go to the mat for us. So he went to the mat and got everybody across the board to drop their prices of their t-shirts. Wow. So that happened. And then, you know, we showed up and I specifically, everybody in the board to drop their prices of their t-shirts. Wow. So that happened. And then we showed up, and I specifically,

everybody in the band to some degree, but I specifically shat the bed because I drank from noon till nine. And it was an insane show and everything. And so I apologized to him after what he had done, that I would show up and be in that state. But the problem was the next day in the papers, it was like rock and rolls back in Toronto, and everybody, and you get that idea of like why iggy has to

cut himself across the chest every night or art bergman has to do what he has to do because you go you know there's a real uh there's a real industry around promoting that and it was like you know lowest low has you know all those other bands like lowest lows brought rock and roll back to toronto it's like well no they just acted incredibly dysfunctionally all day. And then you're now rewarding that, you know, we were, we were played enough that we managed to keep it together though.

So yeah, I was going to say, you probably just brought it because you guys had it in the saddle, you know, Chris, there was a, there was a photo session. Some,

somebody showed us one of those contact sheets that had a couple circled and I'm standing there holding a bouquet of flowers and I'm like what the hell is that and dave goes you don't remember that and it was like we were playing some song somebody threw a bouquet of flowers on the stage and i picked them up and apparently started going into like the sun will come out tomorrow started in the middle of a song you know shut it all down just start doing something else and it's like you know as much as that kind of weird dysfunction might be interesting to look at, I think it's kind of a dangerous thing to promote across the board. I've chemically induced dysfunctional stage story, if you want to hear it.

I do. I just need you to titch closer to that microphone. I know you got the uncomfortable. All right. Well, after one of the, I'm trying to remember, the tsunami, we were doing a benefit in New York at the living room, which I was asked to host, and all these different people were playing.

And I was there all day setting up, interviewing people, and the benefit was for Phuket, which is spelled P-H-U-K-E-T, right? Which is already like, you've got to be careful on the mic. And then someone goes hey man are you hungry and gave me what looked like um a power bar and um about two hours later i hadn't left the club and i was on stage and i kate was there and i said i think i got out of the hospital something's happening like i'm having an aneurysm and then this guy's in the audience he's looking and he's got both thumbs up i'm like oh my god so i was sitting at the hammond and we were bringing nora jones up

and i couldn't remember which drawbars activated which manual which keyboard like i i actually had to push everything in and hold a note and then start pulling drawbars out until I got a sound. And then we played whatever we played, and then I turned to Nora and I said, did I already introduce you? And she's like, yeah, twice. Rock and roll, baby. But, you know, it happened.

Other times it's been voluntary. Like these guys, you know, I've also been there. Yeah. But, yeah. It's bound to happen when you're doing like that many shows a year. The Ontario Place thing was also, you know, one of the probably the first big show we'd done, and there was a real friendly audience.

So it was like there was a little bit of, I think, kind of jubilation and deer in the headlights at the same time that you probably didn't experience because you were because you were my headlights were out three sheets to the wind um but yeah i remember it being being sort of feeling like an opportunity missed but then the next morning like peter howell's review especially was like as ron said it was like the greatest rock show to ever happen and it's like oh man no it wasn't like so well we had the exact same experience in south by southwest which is we went down there sent down there to do our jobs and of course we got billeted with two college women

and we just partied for three days and we did a crappy showcase show and crappy that was one of the worst shows we ever did in fact that one i got off the plane in texas we got off the plane in texas and i reached in my wallet to pay for something and there was this like shiny thing and i looked in there and i'm like oh that's six hits of acid in my wallet that i've brought across the border and off the plane oh my god so rather than be a the kind of person like we i gotta get rid of this it was like we have to do this before we go back because i can't obviously so that was that didn't help you can't waste it and i think the last that last day when we I mean I don't want this all to be just insane road stories but

we I remember waking up and usually I was not the person in the band that was the voice of reason but I was like don't we have to be on a plane in like 40 minutes and so we just running around throwing stuff in bags and getting to the airport and our sound man Brian he was as bad as anybody almost got arrested by the police oh my god in the airport he he sound man brian he was as bad as anybody almost got arrested by the uh police oh my god in the airport he he fell in fell through the fake window of a restaurant into the restaurant but had the greatest line in band history probably when the person at custom said to him what's your country of origin he said window you wanted a window seat yeah that's amazing and of course that do you have anything to declare yeah we're drunk so there was actually a police car with the lights flashing on the tarmac

beside our plane because they said our manager negotiated to get him on the plane because he was in such a mess and they said one false move and he's being arrested so wow and then like maybe it was like two years later, I was in an office in a publishing office or something. I was sitting down beside some, this woman who was from the States. And I, and I said, where are you from? She said, Texas. I said, oh, I'm not allowed to go back to Texas anymore.

And she said, oh, I'm not really supposed to be in Canada. And I was like, we should get married. We're like, we're like citizens of no country. That's funny. Now I'm going to read something to you because we're live on the Toronto Mike live stream, the pirate stream, I call it, which is live.torontomike.com. And there's somebody there named Fig Jam

who left this comment. I'm going to read to you, Fig Jam. That's the guy who gave you the hour bar. Thanks, Mike. This is so cool. Saw Lowest of the Low at U of T Pub with the woman who would become my wife on April 2ndnd 1993 bleed a little

while is now the song uh that's locked in as the music we really connected to we've now been married 24 years and then he goes on to say it brings back uh like a visceral emotion in him when they hear that you're welcome to jam you're welcome so you could play if you played a couple of corns but he's uh he's very emotional on the live stream. And I want to shout out Canada Kev, who's there, who says, damn, there was a pre-sale for the show with the Drake and ticks were only $11.62 or something.

That was a big mistake that never should have happened. Is that right? That was just an error on the part of the Drake. And no, there were no tickets sold at 1162. We've had that person fired. We're doing at least a $16 show. So 1162 would have been absurd. Yeah, I know.

He just bought a ticket for 32 bucks, which sounds like incredible value regardless. Tell Chris that janitor buddy Darlene says hi. Oh my God. This is Canada Kev's wife. They used to go to see Bourbon Tabernacle Choir together and they're still married as well. So a lot of couples seem to be hooked up through your music, all of you.

Yeah, we were obviously doing work we didn't even know about. Music for lovers. My border story just about crossing borders was Kate and I driving my 86 Suburban across the border going back to New York and dealing with the customs officer and Tony's shirt waking up in the backseat and just yelling, we're just making home tapes, officer. He said, excuse me, we're just making home tapes.

None of us knew exactly what that meant. Then the fact that he woke up distressed at the fact that there was someone in uniform. You're going to have to step out of the car, please. Yeah. Home tapes. But nowadays, like when you guys, are you guys just drinking like Perrier now

when you've got your concerts? Like, is there any more partying anymore at the stage of your rock and roll lives? Who wants to take that one? So I think you're still not drinking, right? Okay, so Ron no longer drinks. It's important I know this because I have a lot of fresh craft beer

from Great Lakes Brewery in this basement here. So Ron, you're not drinking alcohol anymore. Yeah. I'm 22 days into a non-alcoholic. You're not getting any either then. This is going to be fun. See, this is the new 2022 rock and roll right yeah chris are you still alcohol friendly or what's your status well i yeah i just didn't burn that tire yeah many of many of my friends uh are are sober and i'm and

i'm i'm grateful for it actually because it's meant we've been able to continue to create where as we all have been expressing, there's been a time when that abandon and that kind of wilderness was really, really necessary. And then at a certain point, it's not. And if people are too attached to it, it can become a very uh difficult thing to deal with so um yeah i but i but i still uh yeah i still enjoy um imbibing um i think when i was a teenager you know like it was way more weed acid

um all that stuff the power bars that occasionally you know occasionally it's it's just interesting it's interesting what's happened with psychedelics you know in the in the last decade and more and that a lot of the stuff that we were self-medicating and doing is seen to like oh yes have a really great effect i mean a lot of those people in my family who are deeply involved in that in terms of um you know treating the ptsd and whatnot so absolutely it's a psilocybin treatment yes yeah and and i think that what ron was talking about in terms of you know the let's say the unnaturalness or the extreme experience of being on the road that it it was natural they naturally go hand in hand like as well as culturally just because you're playing

bars all the time i mean when the bourbon started every single show someone would bring a bottle of bourbon and we would drink it it's in your name dude yeah you're asking for it well yeah of course we were but we didn't think twice about it you know well you're also you know like a part of it is that you're indestructible i mean like yeah the kinds of things that we did in two years or three years in Lowest to the Low would have killed us now. Right. Because it's just an unsustainable. I'll go you one better.

When I tell the story about the first breakup, I always say to people, I really think somebody would have died if we hadn't have stopped. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Well, in fact, people did die all around us. All around us. Like we lost friends, as I'm sure Chris did as well. Because it's part of the, in fact, people did die all around us. All around us, yeah. Like we lost friends, as I'm sure Chris did as well.

Because it's part of the, you know, it's just part of the toxic nature of the industry, which is that you get, not everybody, but I would say speaking for us as a band, I think we got into it with some very high-minded ideals about changing the world and about being artists and about staying true to our vision and stuff like that, which we were.

And the last thing we wanted to be was rock stars. We hated the idea of rock stars and everything it stood for. And then we found that as we got, and we started off like a lot of bands do, cool sort of weirdo outsider fans and just a very welcoming community. And then we got some songs on the radio and we started to get big.

And then suddenly we didn't recognize the audience as much and we were put on the on this kind of hamster wheel of repeated machinery and so you know if you have a bit of a you know a wandering eye to any kind of substance abuse it starts to pick up as a coping mechanism you know because also the other thing nobody tells you about being a successful artist how incredibly boring 70 70% of the day is, you know, like you're just killing time to do that beautiful thing you do for a couple hours at the night. So. Yeah. And once you start making other people money, it becomes a liability because people just want to keep the gag going. And I'd say that's not just about substances. It's also about antisocial behavior.

I mean, there's been lots of circumstances that I've been in that I've just walked from because it's being perpetuated because it's making someone bread at whatever social cost, you know. And it could be substance, but it also could be people's social proclivities that just, you know, don't get checked. Yeah, there's a psychic cost and there's a, yeah. And it's still probably to this day. I mean,

as much as there's lip service to, to inclusion and, and widening of the doors, they have been widened, but I mean, it's still a bit of a boys club everywhere you go, you know, and that's getting changed, which is great. But like talk about the nineties. I mean, it was a complete boys club in the nineties. Right. Well, look at what's club in the nineties. Right. Well, look at what's happening in the change is that people are losing

permissions. And so now it's going to like outright violence, bigotry and, and denial. Like it's real. And it's, and it's all there because it's like, what do you mean?

I can't, what do you mean? I'm not, you know, I always could, you know, exactly. Right.

Steven, you, you said 22 days sober, 22 days. Well, I mean, you know, I mean, you know, let me be clear. I'm not like, it wasn't like a dire situation. I just decided that it was time to take a break. It's okay, man.

You're in the trust tree. You can talk. I was going to congratulate you. I was going to congratulate you. There's nobody listening to you. I appreciate it. It's more like a pause. When the pandemic started, I took a pause and didn't drink for about nine months.

And I suspect this one, we'll see what happens with the tour. Because sometimes when you play after a show, having a beer is a nice thing. Right. It's all about moderation. I'm a pretty casual drinker now as it stands. So, you know, I mean, Chris is exemplary because, as I've said, I've made a lot of music with him in the last five years. As I've said, I've made a lot of music with him in the last five years. And in the studio, there's always sort of the idea of,

oh, we're making music, let's be drunk while we're doing this. He's always like, no, I'm not touching it until we finish the day. And that's always been sort of a bit of a yardstick for me. Well, it depends on the position. Like if I'm producing and engineering, I need that. Other people, it can be very helpful if, you know, and then when the time comes, I mean, just so that, you know. You need to know how many drawbars you've pulled. Exactly.

Or not. Okay, quick question. Do you guys smoke weed? Yes. It's legal now, you know. You know, I'm much less of a smoker than i am a drinker of weed now which has become a very sort of a nice replacement for alcohol yeah i never have been because i was a i don't know what it was like i think when i was of the age that people start to experiment

with a smoking and then smoking weed i was a goalie a goaltender on a fairly serious level so i just sort of sidestepped all that stuff at the age that you normally would get into it and then um we refused to use words like singer so we called him the goalie the goalie last line of defense a lot of canadian musicians are goaltenders that's actually true yeah and then when when david was pointing that out he was like naming them all and yeah, it's like it's an unbelievably high percentage. Yeah. I had a very bad leg break playing

in a charity game in 1997, the year my first daughter was born. And the goalie for my team in that game was Gord Downie. Yeah, that's exactly right. We had, every time I met him in subsequent years, we had that and only that to talk about, that I had broken my leg in the worst possible way

while he was in that. The whole musicians playing hockey thing has come up a lot lately. I went to the woodshed and talked to Jim Cuddy, and then there were stories about Cuddy and Bedini going at it in these hockey games. Been there. So do you guys participate in any of those, like,

Canadian rock hockey games? Yeah, well, you have too, but certainly I've played with Dave. I'm much less of a hockey player now than I was, like, even five years ago, but I've played with Dave since pretty much right after that uh gig at ontario place we sort of became friends then and i've played hockey ever since but yeah you know i won't i'm there's there's been some run-ins with jim cuddy and dave for sure over the years i mean i'm not playing in those games anymore but right it's funny it's funny when i when um before i made that record music at work with the hip Downey was in New York and he

said are you playing much hockey here and I said I said I can't um because it's just it's music music like it's really everything to just kind of make it work in the city and and about I don't know a month after that I got off stage um I was playing at the garden with with the Barenaked Ladies and they come off stage and this guy goes hey man you're a really good organ player and it's wayne gretzky thanks you're really good at what you do and we start talking and i'm like yeah my dad coached me you know all the way up corp and he's like well why don't you come skate with the team and i was like uh what team he goes well he goes the rangers he goes why don't you why don't you dress for why don't you dress for practice this week he goes no no wait a second we're doing

a charity game for christopher reed so it was the it was the rangers and their alumni plus keifer sutherland tim robbins and myself wow wow having a benefit for superman yeah doing a benefit for superman and then that and i scored on richter got me, you know, so then for three years. But did he let you score? Because I can't imagine you scoring a legitimate goal against Mike Rager. It was Andy Richter. I was going to make a Richter scale joke, so we got all the lines covered. Oh, I like that Andy Richter.

But it led to three years of flying around with the Rangers and doing charity games. Really? Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it was really crazy. And, like, with, yeah, it was amazing with Raul Gibera. Like, sometimes he would come out and it's, you know, like royalty. You know, people.

And it was so amazing. Like, for instance, with Gibera trading stories about their lives were so similar to ours as musicians. Like, when he was coming up, the bands, the teams were exactly like bands. They spent their life on the road. with Gilberto trading stories about their lives were so similar to ours as musicians like when he was coming up the bands the teams were exactly like bands they spent their life on the road they weren't getting paid um you know and it was and it was really it was amazing to to um really compare notes that way but it was that's funny that you say that because when people would say well how why did you quit and I was like you know quit to become a punk rock guy and I was like you know I didn't want to travel around in a van with a bunch of guys.

In a van with a bunch of guys. Yes, you did. But yes, I did. It's like what Bob in Phyllis Bozzito's biography, he talks about the after practice before a game that they would all go to the bar and just drink all afternoon until game time.

Like in the 70s. Like it was a very, I mean, you know, that's not happening now I would imagine but very different. I did get to play in a Rockers play the classics game and I got to start and lined up against Paul Henderson. Wow. Was that at Varsity? Was it Varsity? Were you playing that game?

Yeah, I played in that game. We didn't know each other well then but I figured you were there. My only celebrity hockey stuff is that I was taught by Johnny Bauer. Oh, that's pretty cool. Are you kidding me? Okay.

So I want to shout out just quickly here, some partners that help make this happen. Like the fact, I still can't believe it. I got Chris Brown, I got Ron Hawkins, I got Steven Stanley, all in my basement,

like who'd have thunk it. And I want to thank the following in no particular order. If you want to get your cannabis, whether you drink it or smoke it or eat it, you go to Canna Cabana, cannacabana.com, over a hundred locations across the country. Okay.

They won't be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories. So much love to Canna Cabana. Much love. I know a couple of my friends here are not currently drinking, but if you can drink in moderation, like Mr. Brown here, Great Lakes Brewery is delicious, fresh craft beer brewed right here in southern Etobicoke. And you can find them in LCBOs across this fine province.

I got to get you a sticker, Chris. You have never been here. So I got to get you a Toronto Mike sticker. This is from stickeru.com. That's where you go to get your decals and stickers. And much love to the good people at StickerU.com. And, of course, Ridley Funeral Home. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home.

They've been pillars of this community since 1921. And I look forward to Brad Jones dropping by on next Wednesday when we're going to record another episode of Life's Undertaking, which is his fine, fine podcast. Shout out. What did I do there? I don't even know anymore. But much love to the good people at Ridley Funeral Home.

Hey, I want to ask you, Mr. Stanley, a question here, which is I saw, again, back to Bedini really quickly here, but Bedini and you were both at the plaque unveiling for Dave Bookman. For Dave, yeah. Would you mind sharing a little bit about that ceremony? I know you played there as well, but that we have finally at the Horseshoe Tavern, there's a dedication to Bookie.

It's so nice that it's now permanent in front of the Horseshoe. And I like, you know, I went down, I guess about a week and a half ago and was out front for a while and just watching as people would sort of walk by and stop and read it. And the people seem to understand what those are and i was kind of just uh marveling at because i think a lot of people

if you know who dave is it means a lot to you and i think a lot of people maybe if you weren't into the type of music that dave liked they wouldn't know who he was but uh awesome that it's there um you know for me he was like a best friend and uh still miss him every day i'm sure i'm sure mr badini said the same thing and uh yeah it just all happened way too fast and way too soon and a really lovely community has grown around it dave was very compartmental with all of his friends and we are now all kind of a a supporting each other to try to keep his name alive, which doesn't seem to be too much trouble. I think one of the things that he probably didn't realize in his own life

was just how far-reaching his effect was and just the weeks and months after he passed, just being able to read over and over again people's love for him was astounding. It really hasn't let up. I know the people that knew him best, it still feels like it happened yesterday. There's a beautiful song on Stephen's new record about Dave called The Owl, which is wonderful. Amazing. I know he was a huge advocate for lowest to the low and Chris Bucky,

was he, was he going to bat for the Bourbons? Oh yeah. I mean, I knew him going back years and years. I mean, to our earliest club days, to days on the air at CFNY, he was just a, you know, a fixture of, of Toronto music Toronto music I mean also just because there was a number you know the Bourbons was our band but then you know I was playing and recording with a lot of different folks I mean of course he was around for the Rio's like making whale music and a lot of the projects that I was involved in so yeah I mean I was very much entwined with him and then and then later uh working more recently in these last few years

with steven too we just our orbits kind of came around again amazing so yeah check out that plaque dedicated to bookie it's outside the horseshoe tavern there on uh it's at queen and spadina there so awesome the i think i saw you ste Stephen, at the Grilled Cheese Challenge. Grilled Cheese Challenge. Yeah, we played at that for the second time, I think. Yeah. And I mean, it was a fun gig. And it was a great day. It's too far for me to travel.

That's at least 100 steps there. And you're a cyclist. It's probably actually too close, I would think. Actually, I do get upset when I get, like my wife has me pick things up. And it's like, I get excited when she's like, oh, it's in East York or whatever. It's like, okay, good, nice juicy ride. And then it's like, oh, yeah, it's there or whatever, Lake Shore. And I'm like, aw.

I mean, not to get critical, but they do need to find a way to speed up the production of grilled cheese. My friend of mine, what are you going to say? I'm going to tell you the fun fact, which is, do you know who won the grilled cheese challenge this year? No, I don't. Ridley home really wow and it's a mind blow moment that's a true story how do grilled cheese and funeral homes go together that's like i asked this question and the uh apparently the production was at with the franklin horner the people at franklin horner which is another local uh uh outfit charity and then uh yeah but ridley funeral home sponsors it i guess and they won so well so we did an hour set and it was a lot of fun as i said um a friend of mine went to get in line for a grilled cheese 10 minutes before we started and got his grilled

cheese half an hour after we finished i'll talk to the organizers they also have great lakes beer at the grilled cheese challenge i should be there i should have a booth i mean is that mike is that not true of every kind of festival that happens in Toronto? You know, this summer, Chris played it, but I was just there watching by the Skeleton Park in Kingston. And I just sort of thought,

this is beautiful because it's an amazing festival and it just seems like it hasn't sort of blown the banks in outgrowing itself. And things in Toronto tend to kind of blow past how many people, you know, it can accommodate. and then all of a sudden it's just too big and you can't get to the stuff but the skeleton park i don't know if you feel the same chris but i just thought that's kind of the way it was amazing it should be yeah sorry the ferry i just was dealing with a little there's a band that played the hotel last night and they're stranded because the ferry

is down oh and you only have the one ferry, right? Yeah, currently we're waiting. So I was just... And Esmerine was supposed to play. Some of the folks from Esmerine came down with COVID, so they canceled. So I was just like, why don't you guys stay at the hotel and play another night?

But yeah, I mean, I have to say, it's been very interesting being in that neck of the woods in the Kingston, Wolf Island island area and it is a very fertile musical place like i i the one of the first things i did in that area was start working with this bluegrass family the abrams brothers and i realized how much of the music in that area was in you know influenced by the environs of the ottawa valley and all the pickers that surround it it's got a huge rock and roll culture, Kingston, but it also, it's fed by that.

It's very similar to Nashville in size and in that effect, you know? Amazing. There are some cool younger bands coming in right now. Such great stuff. Well, before you, Chris, because you were a little bit late, so I was chatting up Stephen and Ron.

I know you don't have to rub it in. I'm sorry. there was a crash he's mentioned it seven times now can we move on now? get out to Ridley Funeral Home I'm not editing that out but I did have this fantasy where my family goes on a road trip

to Kingston or whatever and then I get on this ferry hopefully they fix it for me and then I get on this ferry. Hopefully they fix it for me. And then I somehow set up my studio in your hotel, Chris, and I don't know, I record musicians that are there. I have this vision. I feel like we need to make this happen at some point. Yeah, well, you wouldn't have much to set up because it's all set up for high-def broadcast as it is.

So you could actually just come and do that. You could show up in your underwear as they explained. You could show up in your underwear as, as you could show up in my underwear. Yeah. Show up in Ron's underwear. No. Yeah, of course you,

of course you can do that. And in fact, under COVID, um, the couple of things we had to do was basically build a restaurant outside and then, um, make it so that broadcast was available.

And we, we ended up doing a lot of amazing broadcasting under COVID from there. So yeah, come on. Ron, when i go see you three in concert like i'm trying to envision like are you playing song like lois said the low songs and are you playing bourbon tabernacle choir songs like what exactly could we expect when you three are in concert we're playing everything ever written by us yeah we're playing any dan hill we're playing a... Any Dan Hill? We're playing a daunting... When Steve... When we first kind of came together with this idea, I think I had a certain vision of what it would be.

And then Steve said, here's 80 songs we should play. And so now we have literally something for anybody who's ever liked... If you like a part of our career, but you're like, yeah, that other stuff, I don't want to hear that, you're going to be happy because there's stuff's stuff no there's probably more than that but

there's like it's all garbage so it's just yeah and if you don't like us at all you can still come but uh yeah so we're just playing stuff from all of our records you know and we all have a lot of records so it's yeah it's quite a swatch and we're all going to be on one thing that we're we're not sure that we made clear when we first uh blasted out about this was that we'll all be on the stage at the same time for the whole thing so we're going to uh jump around thinking about now like uh the the canadian funeral home yeah really funeral home but the canadian highwaymen no the trans canada highwaymen i'm trying to think of what name they go by but they it's uh it won't be like that it won't be like that okay because you got be like that. Okay.

Because you got a guy from Sloan, and you got Moe Berg is there, and you got... Steven Page. Steven Page is there, and the Odds guy. Oh, Craig Northey. Craig Northey, right. And I think it's Chris Murphy from, by the way, just Shadow Metal from Sloan. But like, yeah.

And then they just play each other's songs, like together. But is it similar to that, or is it... No, different. Different, okay. I mean... It's going to be better okay i mean it's going to be better it's going to be better but we are playing all their songs pursue the happiness songs we're only doing that and chris and c will be super drunk and i'll be super sober so it's going to be completely different than their exactly it's going to be different well i mean but it's it's natural i mean we all we all spend our lives, you know, doing this stuff.

And as was mentioned before, you know, when the Bourbons and Lowest to Low were touring and touring and touring, it's like we weren't spending time together, but we were all doing the same circuit. And, you know, culturally, we've been through what we've all been through. So it really makes sense. There's also a kind of vernacular that I personally, I didn't realize until I got to New York and really spent many years making music in New York where it's like, Oh, if you're Canadian and you play music, you travel. That's not necessarily the case. Like, like New York's kind of a crucible where all these, you know, great players it's, it's like traveling without going anywhere. But, you know, a lot of the musicians that we, Kate and I started making records with who were playing jazz,

then started forming bands and touring and touring with us. And culturally, it was funny because you don't never recognize your own accent. But people would be like, oh, right, they'd associate you with Ron Sexsmith or anything else. And you wouldn't, you would go, oh, right, they'd associate you with Ron Sexsmith or anything else. And you would go, oh, right. So I think that even probably all those bands you just mentioned in the Highwaymen all were so disparate and probably didn't listen to each other's music back in the day. But they completely would have had similar experiences. And at this point, it makes ultimate sense you know

something that happens too that i mean it doesn't apply to the three of us but i'm but i was uh laughing when i saw the hollow notes tears for fears tour and i was like uh when like their fan bases would never have gone to see each other's shows back in the day right but it's sort of like through the fogs of misty fogs of time nostalgia gets kind of bleeds together we'll watch Stranger Things and then we'll go and see these guys play together so I think it takes a little bit of the I'm still like an adolescent in terms of

I still feel very tribal about music and I'm still super judgmental and I shouldn't be but I am and I was in a coffee shop in my neighborhood which is kind of like unfortunately has become like a massive, like hipster ground zero. And there's this little coffee shop and I go in there and they were playing

Blondie. And I was like, Oh cool. Like all these young kids, like 22 year olds playing Blondie. And then there was like blue oyster cult or something. And I was like, no,

no, you can't do that. What are you doing? Like, but it's like, you know, when you're not an old person, you,

you, it's like, well, they have access to everything and they just go, is it good person, it's like, well, they have access to everything, and they just go, is it good? Is it bad? We had access to K-Tel records, which had everything. Goofy greats.

You know, I talk about this. I mean, when I was younger, I'm a titch younger than you three, but not a lot younger, but I would be listening to 680 CFTR, which was all hits. Totally. And you would totally hear, like, I don't know, Funky Cold Medina next to like Def Leppard,

Pour Some Sugar On Me next to like some ballad or whatever. Like it really, it wasn't genre-fied or whatever. Like they just. Oh wow, I never had that experience though. Well,

I always found it like, for instance, I found it wild when doing stuff in Brooklyn and being on a hip hop record and people going, oh man, I love Rush. Like you're from Canada.

And, and it's like, you realize it's your prejudice and your own associations or your disassociations. Like, like it's like, it's not, you know,

it's, it's how, it's whatever fine people, how people find it, you know? So, because I have two members here from, but let me ask the big question here.

Like, is Steven Stanley ever going to be a part of lowest of the low again? Probably not in his heart, in my heart or on the stage. He'll be like a special guest who will show up occasionally to, but you're not going to be, you know, you're not ever going to be touring as a member of lowest of low.

So we've, we've been talking about the last five years and what I've done since I left lowest of low. I really, in my mind, believe none of that happens if i'm in the band and you know i mean there was great years for sure and and you know there's a lot of i mean this this experience and you know the funny thing about i'm having a blast

last couple weeks learning these 80 songs that ron's talking about a collection of those songs are probably you know 20 of them are lowest of low songs and our plan is to kind of mix it up there's there are people come into multiples of these shows so we're gonna we're not doing 80 shows on 80 songs a night we're gonna be probably doing you know an ordinary kind of you know what what are we guessing at like close to two hours probably what we'll probably do so that's 90 songs um Playing these songs again, the amazing thing that I'm finding is even if I'm kind of like, oh, I'm not really sure how that one went.

I'm not really sure what it did. And then like two times through, muscle memory just does it. It just plays the parts that I play. And that's kind of cool. Okay, but Stephen, let me just... The interesting thing about that, if I can say something about that, Mike,

is that, you know, it goes back to this sort of thing like when you're in it you don't recognize everything and it's like i i think after the first time or maybe it was even more recently than this but i said to steve like why do you think that you sort of when you left the band you know suddenly there was this wealth of songs he was writing a lot more songs and uh we i produced a record for um too many sisters and we had a great time doing that record and it was like wow these songs are killer and there's a lot of songs and uh we i produced a record for um too many sisters and we had a great time doing that record and it was like wow these songs are killer and there's a lot of them and uh and steve said to me well i don't know when i was in the band i knew that you were going to write a whole

bunch of songs and it was sort of like because i find things like that happen which were never mandated like no you're saying like i know it wouldn't happen if i was in the lowest low and it's like we never mandated that or anything it just sort of seemed to be a thing like a it's a thing but i think you know i mean you to this day are as prolific as they come and uh right you know i think once the band was established that you know there was a main singer there wasn't going to be an album where it was half our songs and half half my songs half your songs but i remember at one point saying to you like there was a time when steve had written a bunch of songs and I had a few, but I had just done a solo record

or something and I had a few. And I said, well, why don't we make a record that's more Steve songs than my songs? And you were sort of ticklish about that. And I thought of any band in the world, that's something that we would do is go, we don't really care what you want, but it's sort of like, this is what we want to do.

But some stuff like that, there's things you can't really put a finger on you know like things just happen and you yeah you know it's like i think all of the above is correct i think anything was a possibility i do think for me the path that ended up you know ending up making records with chris has just been exactly where i wanted to be as far as you know as far as there's like you know not that i mean obviously lois lowe can leave town and make records too but the idea of going to wolf island and that it's a it's an immersive experience where i'm there for four or five days at a time and we're just kind of you get up in the morning and you you know have whatever

the tea and then you talk for a while, and then you start recording, and it just feels, it just felt so right to me to do it that way, and. So you're happy, why would you change things if you're happy? Yeah,

but we're making our next record at Wolf Island, and we're going to be there six or seven days a week, so. So, well, that's okay,

so. There is a hotel now, which is set up to make records. But no ferry to get there. Well, no, that's just temporary. That's temporary.

The world's biggest electric ferry actually is sitting there and picked and waiting to come to the dock once it, no, that's just temporary. The world's biggest electric ferry actually is sitting there and waiting to come to the dock once it's finished. Really? Yeah. Also, the other thing about your song, Steve, is I just saw Steve play the Bookmen show, the celebration after the plaque thing.

And the band is killer. I had not seen the band live before. I heard the records and stuff like that. But I saw the band, and I was blown away.'s an incredible band yeah and steve's at the top of his game and and uh like just to have the space to do that right where whereas you and i always traded off that stuff and we're great together as front men but like it's great to see you doing that in the middle it's standing in the middle of the stage it's strange and and uh weird to say this but the pandemic did so much to change my mind about,

and you talked about mortality before. All those things are kind of playing into the idea of I am now completely wired to just love every moment I'm on stage. Whereas before, I don't know if, I mean, you know, obviously in the day, the lowest low days, we were loving it and there was a lot of tension sometimes. It was always a good show. That's the good, that was the good thing about the band.

But there was tension. There was the strife of, you know, like when we were, we were always on the road, always, always traveling. Now it's just like, I don't take anything for granted. And I think that doing a, like you, you were more prolific than I was, but doing like a whole series of live streams

over the course of the pandemic really kind of changed my view of playing live, which is weird because like that was just to a computer screen. So, but yeah. One might say you're not a glass half empty kind of guy. I'm not a glass half empty. I'm not a half ass. Can I jump in?

Of course. One thing on this is that having been in a band that started when we were 15 and stayed together for 10 years, and then having joined, you know, innumerable other projects, either producing or being on their own with them, the tricky thing is that our identities, which develop when we're really young and when they're developed in front of an audience and on stage with one another, it becomes very threatening, right?

Like those, that thing leaving can be, I mean, it's existentially profound. And the way through is to constantly let it go. And sometimes that means staying together. Sometimes it means just allowing other manifestations to occur. And then as I'm sitting between these two awesome people realizing like yeah well guess what they get to enjoy all of that because that that's been accepted whereas i've been in situations before with bands where it's like oh yeah well they're like whispering to me outside of the control room about uh and you're like how about you guys communicate because that's what i think we're trying to do but it's it's

totally understandable because again harkening back to what ron said it's it's it's a very intense and somewhat unnatural um environment to be in and but but i mean you you you come up against this in music or or through it in music where you you have to kind of totally dissolve the identity all the time you know and if I I say that if you look at our seniors and people who've been doing it for decades I toured with B.B. King and you know you talk to Neil Young or Willie Nelson they do this and it looks from the outside like a straight path but that arc is actually this incredible comings and goings and things that didn't work and right yeah and it's like i would say too like towards what you're saying is that anybody who's on stage and i heard

tom white say this that you kind of have to create a character for yourself because it's not exactly who you are and no matter how true you are to yourself and the art you're making you know there's a performative aspect to it which is not natural so it's giving so you create something that you that is you and then like i remember when the band broke up like we all had different uh responses and i went to europe for a while and um because part of it is like when it's finished as you go okay well, well, well, who am I? Like, because I had this trajectory and it was a trajectory that ate up 24 hours of, of a day, you know? And it's like, now you're not that person.

So who are you? You know? And it seems weird to say that because of course, you're the same person, but you're, but I think it's this element of like you were a quarter of a whole thing too. Right. Like you were part of a gang, you know? I don't know, but are you the same person when you come out of something like that? I think you're a recorder of a whole thing too, right? Like you were part of a gang, you know? I don't know, but are you the same person? When you come out of something like that, I think you're a different person. I mean, like it's such a radical,

I mean that first breakup especially was such a radical change. It was like we were, we went from being in a van almost every day to the, you know, bang and it was over and we were no longer in the van every day. Well, and we were still kind of kids and we kind of laid a big turd on Dave,

which was that Steve and we kind of laid a big turd on dave which was that steve and i kind of uh not together because we were not really getting along but we kind of at the same time decided it was done and we kind of laid that on dave and that was not fair because as dave said you know he had thrown his eggs in our basket and and we were all on this thing and then suddenly we're like no you're not in this thing anymore and it's like he had to build a whole other life. So that's another. There's lots of, and then of course there's your friends and your family. There's all kinds of collateral damage around it too.

As it is with, I mean, the stakes right now, as we were talking about with needing to challenge at our deepest level, like what we've been doing collectively, whether it's as men or as a planet or as you know a nation and stuff and that's always those questions are always inherent in being able to move through stuff and so the nice thing about the crucible of music is

that it's a great place to try and fail it's no less threatening than any any other thing but but you can actually come out of that as we all have and and with fruits from the experience that that you that you bring forth as as songs or whatever so i mean to me that exact stuff you guys are talking about is is something that you can see people all of us struggling with right now post- COVID in, in all of the crazy things that are kind of coming up right now. And we really need to need to face, you know, and I, more and more art and music, just, it makes sense. It makes sense. It makes sense. You know? And that's why we're calling this tour, the try and fail tour.

Fail and fail. Fail and fail. Fail and fail. So firstly, all that's fast from my perspective outsider here fascinating to listen to because I mean you said the word prolific Stephen with regards to Ron and I mean we think Ron Hawkins we think there's lowest of the low

but then there's Rusty Nails and Do Good Assassins and then there's all the solo work like Peace and Quiet and all that stuff like just there's a lot of different avenues whereas it sounds like Stephen you needed to step away from the band in order for you to flex those muscles it's almost like maybe if i'm reading between the lines and you can tell me like mike you're way out of line here way out of line but

like the band morphed into a bit more of like ron hawkins's band meanwhile you're steven stanley to find your voice you needed to actually leave that because it wasn't enough oxygen for you yeah that would be a i think that's maybe a too easy way to explain it there's a lot of things going on that that both times that ended up with me the second time with me leaving um but in the simplest way i guess like i mean like you know it wasn't so much that i didn't feel it was a band i still you know i don't know i don't know what how the band is, but I think when I was there, it still felt like the band that we'd started for the most part. You know, it changed a bit.

I think the only thing that I think was a mistake was actually uttering the words break up because if you just walk away and take a break, which a lot of bands do, there's a stigma that goes with the words break up and coming back was hard. You know, it's funny cause listening to assorted fiction, which is the album we made when we came back for the first time in a long

time, learning some of these songs again you know, I'm really proud of that record. It's like, it's like there's some really cool stuff happening on there that I think never saw the light of day. The only person I know, my,

my best friend's son thinks it's a, thinks it's a great, great record. So I always sort of, what is it? The only person who thinks as an exercise, because I was just as an exercise i like to sometimes put things into uh youtube and then sort by view count like just to see and it's funny when you when you do it for lowest of the low

how overwhelmingly shakespeare my butt the results are like i think the first non-shakespeare reference is i think you get to finally get to like a black monday uh at some point but uh just interesting how heavy it is and view count for that one that one really i think we've talked about this before mike on this show which is that the other thing about being in a band is that if you have a situation like shakespeare my butt because not only did we uh did that record was it successful but it was we were also underdogs because we had tried hard to get, you know, signed by everybody like everybody did. And we're flouted at every turn.

And then in spite of ourselves made it happen. Right. So there's a great underdog story and everything. And then everybody who was involved in that there's a massive romance to that, that you can never re reconstruct uh reconstruct and it's like you know we've i always joke about you know we just made that record agit pop and i'm like yeah i'll say you know agit pop is the best lowest low record i'll say it's you know it's the it's the bookend to shakespeare my butt even to the point that i think subconsciously we chose

like sort of manila and burgundy like we didn't do that on purpose but it's kind of like agit pop i fantastic i'll just tell you but you know it purpose, but it's kind of like. In Agitpop, I mean, fantastic. I'll just tell you. But you know, it can't, but it's one of those things where it's, you put it out there and it doesn't matter how good it is.

It can't not, I can't take people in a time machine back to when they're, didn't have kids and they were. A hundred percent. Every night at university and stuff. So there's a whole other set of clothes that, that you just don't have access to, to,

to make magic with, you know? So the, the thing, the thing itself is one thing. And then the world around it is make magic with, you know? So the thing itself is one thing, and then the world around it is another thing that, you know? Yeah, I think there's a humility to it too, that realizing the blessing of having something that's popular. Like, again, talking about our elders, a few, like this goes back about 15 years,

but Willie Nelson told me he makes more money off crazy every year than he does from touring. Right. Why does he tour? Because he loves touring. How many gold records did Neil Young have? Until, I think, recently, Harvest. Yeah.

Right? Right. But it's like, that's really educational, right? And here we are going, oh, well, and again, I'll hark into another world you know when kate and i were under the wood with bb king and and we'd be opening with him and then playing with him and we'd be like changing up the set list every night it's like guess what bb does he plays the same set every night yeah but it is brand new because he is so he's full of so much

gratitude and when you hear about like how he got to be on that stage, he's not messing with it, right? So there's, you know, there's, there is the, there's the constant renewal of writing and everything. And then there's some stuff that is just going to be like a beacon that you're never going to outshine and you shouldn't bother competing with yourself. Yeah.

You know? Well, also I think what we get to do, Stephen and I i with shakespeare my butt is that i don't think it's lost on either of us uh that we're blessed to have ever uh had that happen and um you know it's like on top of it it's like what we get out of it too is that what we what we lack in maybe uh units shifted like uh my partner jill used to work at tironi and uh she said like once a week she would be she would overhear somebody talking about music and she said oh hey my my guy's in a band and they'd say oh who is it oh ron hawkins still and they go oh my god yeah respect and she's like oh you know you like looking to look

oh i've never heard i've never heard the music but it's like the story has gone out and it's sort of like we got you know respect and stuff like that and it's like you know so the the joke side of that is like well that and eight dollars can buy me a coffee in my neighborhood but um you know but really i know i know that that's the career we always wanted to have anyway you know i know some people in the business that have done really well that weren't musicians thank god bless them you know it's like i think the reality is we're probably not sitting here without that record just because, you know, we would have middling careers. And you wouldn't have a song from that album

closing all 1,112 episodes of Toronto Mike. Well, there's a good chance we would have been delivering Palma Pasta to Mike's show. We want to play it. So again, let's get to that now. I realize the clock here. Okay, now 80 songs. We're going to play 80 songs.

80 songs, please. Do a medley of 80 songs. So I did see a tweet from you, Stephen Stanley, and you said you guys were threatening you might play live, and I didn't have such hopes and expectations because I don't want to be disappointed if you didn't do it, but you are willing to do it. Now, you guys, so what is that?

So Chris, what is that? This is like a keyboard right taking out the garbage that's a keyboard i bought on 59th street when i was 14 years old and it's i've written so much on this thing and and and it ends up on records and stuff and it's a beautiful old casio it's a casio tone mt11 everyone yeah and steven was like bring that little keyboard so i just actually threw it in the car this morning at 6.30 in the morning. Wow.

Okay, so I'm going to shut up because no one wants to hear from me. But you guys tell me whatever. You can do whatever you want, man. I'm just honored that you'd be willing to play live here. Why don't we do... How about St. Brendan's Way? Oh, my God.

No, or Rosie and Grey. Rosie and Grey? Even him with the Shakespeare in my butt my God. No, or Rosie and Grey. Rosie and Grey? Even him with the Shakespeare in my butt. Well, if you do Rosie and Grey, then I am going to play Rosie and Grey. Yeah, we don't want to play that. Okay, we could do Dark Horse. Okay. Hopefully I have it in the right key.

Oh, here we go. This is what you're going to get, people, when you come to this show. Yeah? Let's try it. Wait, wait, what do you got there? Well, this is... Hold on, hold on. This is a terrible experiment, because if it goes terribly, the tour is just blown.

Is it in? I got it in A. Okay, people, we're almost there. Okay. Yeah. One, two, buckle my shoes. Well, I don't believe in things If they believe in me

Well I'm through with sympathy Erase it Displace it You know that shit don't work Why don't you face it Dark horse, always a strange day's way Well, I so like a satellite Did I crash and burn

Your sisterly concern It's been I'm absent But someone tell me Where the hell the time went Dark holes Only a strength And a way

Away Away Away Always the last to feel the shadow falling The phase of thought mislaid a punchline that misfire Always the first to hear the silence calling I've never been so wild I've never been so tired No amount of blue remorse Could slake this wicked thirst

When I put my devils first It's cute to live through Lies I only told you when my lips were closed Always a strange

day's away Only a strange day's away Strange Days Away Only Strange Days Away The Father of the Strange Days guitar solo Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, amazing honestly wow okay amazing amazing amazing look that up on youtube right now see how many views we got thank you so much for doing that now steven since you seem to have this so perfectly right the first time you're going to do it all again just remind me from the top of your head when can we see you three? Sure. So the three of us will be September 29th at the Hartwood Music Hall in Owen Sound,

30th in Peterborough at Jethro's, October 1st at the Hotel Wolf Island on Wolf Island, and October 2nd in Chelsea, Quebec at the Motel Chelsea, which is close to Wakefield. Then on October 5th, Hamilton at the Mule Spinner. October 6th at the Fergus Grand Theatre in Fergus. October 7th in Buffalo, New York at the Town Ballroom, the front room, which is called the Oxford Pennant Room. And then October 8th at the Drake Underground in Toronto. And that's when Kate Fenner joins you guys at the Drake on the 8th, you said, right?

October 8th. Amazing. Okay, amazing. And Kate's got a brand new record too that's about to come out, which is beautiful. I want Kate Fenner on Toronto Mic'd. I'm putting that out there. I know I need to, I should talk to Kate.

That's probably a good suggestion. I think I'll do that. I got to get her on Toronto Mic'd. But guys, honestly, what a pleasure. Any final words from you three I should talk to Kate. That's probably a good suggestion. I think I'll do that. I've got to get her on the mic. But guys, honestly, what a pleasure. Any final words from you three before I play some jam from Shakespeare My Butt? Ridley Funeral Home? Yes, that's my choice.

Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. They have to go to Ridley Funeral Home. They've got a lot of coverage in this episode. They get full value. They would do that. Any final words from you three thank you Mike for being such a stalwart supporter of music and for making what we do just

possible like it's a completely reciprocal relationship and it's just really great to be here well you know I love you guys and Chris it's good like I said first time in the flesh that I got to meet you. And I can't wait to take a photo with you by the tree after this recording. I don't show up on film.

That's what I heard. We can try. We can try. And Stephen, I saw you at the grilled cheese chat. I love it when I bump into you. You know, I saw you in Pete Fowler's backyard. That was a fun you know blair packham played tmlxx i met him there too uh wild how it all comes together yeah

exactly he's a great guy um yeah um my final word is i'm really looking forward to these dates i've as of the last couple weeks and working on the songs i can't wait to play with both these guys for an extended period of time so that's's all I have to say. Amazing. And Ron, now that you're the only living Ron Hawkins in Canada. Mm-hmm. I've seen to that. Oh, now that Ronnie's passed. There's got to be.

Okay, the last, the only famous Ron Hawkins. Some pretty obscure names put together. Great to see you again. I think this is maybe your fifth or sixth visit. And I absolutely love it. And thank you for the music. Thank all three of you for the music. Thanks, Mike.

Love it. Thanks so much. And who's playing on this jam? Anybody in this room playing on this song? Love it. And that brings us to the end of our 1,112th show. I should fade down the jam. You guys take over.

Do it. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Stephen Stanley is at, I hope I get this right, is it Stanley Music on Twitter? Yes. Oh, yeah.

S Stanley Music. S Stanley Music. Follow him on Twitter Is it Stanley Music on Twitter? Yes. Oh, yeah. S Stanley Music. S Stanley Music. Follow him on Twitter. Ron's not on Twitter, but lowest of the lower on Twitter. Shout out to my good friend

Lawrence Nichols. Chris, I can't, are you on Twitter? Just go to Wolf Island Records. Just type that in and you'll see all you need to know.

And remember, Wolf Island has an E at the end of Wolf. Go check them out. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Electronic Products Recycling Association are at EPRA underscore Canada.

Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. And Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana underscore. See you later today when my guest is john beiner ridley funeral home when you gotta go you gotta go ridley funeral home go, you gotta go. Ridley Funeral Home They'll take you home

When you gotta go. This is our first official rehearsal. When you gotta go You gotta go You gotta go Ridley Funeral Home Welcome.