Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ron Sexsmith: Toronto Mike'd #914

Episode Date: September 13, 2021

Mike chats with Ron Sexsmith about working with Kurt Swinghammer, Bob Wiseman, Daniel Lanois, meeting Elvis Costello, Paul McCartney, Ray Davies, Leonard Cohen, seeing a UFO, and so much more.

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I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Ron Sexsmith. Welcome, Ron. Thanks, Mike. Can you hear me all right? You sound fantastic. So I want you to heavily tip your technical support person who helped you earlier because she did a fantastic job. No, I was just so glad she was here because I did one Zoom a few weeks ago on my computer and it seemed to go pretty well. But I don't know what happened. ago on my computer and it seemed to go pretty well but i don't know what happened uh anyway do you have to sort of keep changing all your you know all the preferences every time or i don't know well you know uh are you a mac or a windows user i have a little i have a 2015 uh mac yeah

yeah usually usually they're pretty good um but you know what? You're actually not late at all. As I look at the clock, it turned 11 o'clock right now. We scheduled this for 11, so you owe me no apologies, sir. Well, I'm just glad we figured it out. It's funny. I opened up. I told the Twitterverse that I have Ron Sexsmith coming on, and I got this great question off the top from somebody named Ron who wants me to ask you, how did you get those imaginary washboard abs?

Yeah, I don't know. Twitter for me has just become this sort of goofy place, you know. I mean, I didn't want anything to do with it when I first got on. You know, my label talked me into it and I was, what am I supposed to do with it? And it's sort of, it's sort of become an outlet for these, uh, I don't know, dad jokes, I guess. That's a pop into my head. Well, uh, I actually thoroughly, and I urge everyone listening to follow you on Twitter. Tell us now,

is it it's at Ron Sexsmith. So that's right. Follow Ron because it's funny to hear you say you, you, you know, you didn't jump on board Twitter, uh, until you were kind of coerced into doing it because you're so like good at it. You're just a constant, uh, breath of fresh air. Like I have so many questions about your Twitter account. Uh, the first one's from me. Okay. This is from me. So if you're tweeting from at Ron Sexsmith, why do you sign off RS every tweet? Like, isn't that redundant? Don't we know it's you? I'm glad, I'm glad you asked that because that question has come up before. You see, when I first got on, my management had been running it. And they suggested that I do that initially just to let people know that it was actually me.

Right. Because they would post or tweet a lot of sort of, you know, promotional things. And so it just sort of became a thing. And also some of the jokes are so bad, I feel I need to take ownership of them. But yeah, I probably could have stopped doing that a long time ago. But anyway. But now it's a thing you do.

So now you've got to keep doing it because that's like the wrong thing to do. Sign off, RS, even though they're always now. I mean, now it seems like 99% of these tweets are from you directly. Yeah, unless I have an album coming out, sometimes the label will have a link for me to post. I always get a little embarrassed posting, I don't know, promotional things. Even though essentially that's what it is. But my pages sort of become almost like my own personal variety show

because I have songs, I have jokes, and there's some reoccurring kind of skits that come up. But the thing that's amazing to me is when I got on in 2012, I had like 600 followers just from my management. And now I think it's like 45,000. Wow. Just from doing, I don't know what I'm doing really, just like stupid jokes and posting, you know, videos and such.

Well, here, let me get to some of these questions regarding your tweets. So Tom Harrington, the Tom Harrington from CBC News. This is a big deal here. Tom says, the puns will be so thick, you'll have to brush them away from your face. Wow. You know, I mean, you know, for me, it was a way to combat, you know, this kind of serious image that somehow got, you know, became attached to me. You know, I think some of my early albums were a bit perhaps melancholy, but it was never very accurate in terms of what was going on, you know,

with my band. We were just laughing our heads off most of the time. Well, you wouldn't know that to be honest, because you always seem very serious in your photographs and video of you. You seem very serious. So it's kind of, it's interesting to see the side of you. Well, it's sort of a deadpan. I mean, I'm not, I'm terrible with photos. And I mean, my whole family is like like none of us smile in my family. I always thought it was kind of overrated, actually, in photos to smile.

You know, what are you smiling about exactly? But, yeah, so for me, the puns and stuff, I've always loved Jack Benny and Groucho Marx and Bob Hope and that kind of humor. So it's just become an outlet, you know, for these things that pop in my brain. And also, especially during COVID, for me, I've been kind of in overdrive because trying to boost morale and trying to lift people's spirits and my own spirits.

And so I probably treat way too much. I'm probably going to have to get off at one of these days. No, please don't. Now, Brian Dunn, a listener of the program, he's a big deal in that I believe he's on Treehouse TV. I think he has a show. He's no Tom Harrington, but Brian Dunn, he's a great FOTM. He says he's looking forward to all the dad jokes. So you call them dad jokes. Some call them puns. My school rocks, he says, when he heard you were coming on. He goes, now that rocks. He goes, I need to ask Ron about his PhD.

Doctor of, now I can't even say it, punilosophy? Oh, God. Well, you know, I did get an honorary doctorate from Brock University a few years ago. And I felt like such a fraud because I didn't do all that well in school to be honest you know I kind of knew what I wanted to do at an early age and everything was just sort of in the way but so I remember when they presented me with this doctorate I had to wear one of those robes and the thing the hat and all that and I just remember feeling like the scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz,

you know, when they give him a brain at the end, but it's really just a diploma. You know, he's still the same person. Well, he knew the Pythagorean theorem. That's right. Yeah, once he got the, yeah. I think he got it wrong, to be quite honest, because I think when I eventually got to that part of math in high school,

I, you know, I had seen Wizard of Oz a hundred times and I realized that I think, I do think the scarecrow got it wrong, but I'm no mathematician. Is that the one, the square root of this or that? Yeah. Or equal to the, yeah, the, yeah, yeah. That one. So that was his like evidence that he would, he had a brain. He was able to recite the Pythagorean theorem. Yeah. And if I, yeah, I mean, I, I, that would have went right over my head anyway. So he seemed pretty smart to me. So. Right, right. Mike Dancy just says, uh, he'd like to know,

Ron, if you have a big book of puns that you read during your morning constitutional, that's very, very specific, or if all these great puns just come to you naturally so please tell all the listenership tell the fotms are these off the top of your head or have you like got a book of these things i don't have a book but but in the course of the day i'll i'll just you know one will occur to me and i'll um and i try to stockpile them you know i have a little folder on my desk this one might be good for tomorrow or whatever. And there's some too that I've even, cause I'm not a professor, I'm a songwriter, you know, so there's no pressure to, to, uh, be good at it. So I repeat some puns too.

Like there's some puns I'll do today that I did maybe three years ago or something. Oh, you gotta be careful though. Like when you, cause if you get one of those like social media schedulers and then you schedule these like tweets every year or something, you know what happened to Eric Alper? Once they realized like he's sending the same question out on the same days every year, it became a tiny bit like creepy.

I didn't know that about Eric. That's amazing. He's one of my favorite people on Twitter because I, I'm just a sucker for those sort of what's your favorite album from this, you know, whatever. Or what cover do you like better than the original? Those kind of things. I love that stuff too. Yeah. And so for me, like I come up with stuff, like sometimes I'll be in my bed and I'll think of something and I have to get up and jot it down. bed and I'll think of something and I have to get up and jot it down. It's so ridiculous because, and I usually forget them as soon as I tweet them because they're just,

you know, they're just so kind of silly or whatever. But yeah, so I don't have a book or anything. It's just, and I'm sure a lot of the jokes I'm telling, you know, they've probably been said before, you know, by, by smarter people than me. No, I enjoy your, I enjoy your Twitter feed immensely. I have one more technical question before we kind of get to your, your, your, your, your life. This is your right life, Ron Sexsmith. But, because I said it out loud now, I want to know, is there like a cover that you prefer over the original that's top of mind? Like maybe, I don't know, you can give me your answer, but maybe you're like, yeah,

I prefer Aretha Franklin's Respect to Otis Redding's Respect or something like that. Well, I definitely prefer Aretha's version. I think the song for me that would be Lucien Sky with Diamonds, because when I was 10, I was a member of the Elton John fan club and I just, you know, I loved everything he did. And so when he came out with that song, I just thought, this is the greatest song ever. And someone in my class told me, well, that's actually a Beatles song. Right.

And so I went to the library and took out the double blue Beatles best of sort of thing. Right. And, and I, you know, to this day, I still prefer Elton's version um it's just a little more uh i don't know fully formed or something but yeah so that that's one example i always like paul young's version of oh girl too um and you know i think it's as good as the chai lights version yeah and you know speaking of the beatles stuff uh most people myself included do prefer the joe cocker uh version of like With a Little Help from My Friends over the Beatles original. Yeah, I mean, it's less sort of jolly, you know, sort of more like Ray Charles or something.

But, yeah, I mean, it's not an easy thing to do to take a cover and, you know, I think the version of T tainted love too you know i like that much better than the original too i'm with you on that one as well and then since before we get off this topic i could spend the whole you know 90 minutes just talking about this but uh ike and tina turner doing proud mary i mean ccr great song but i'll take that t Tina every day of the week oh yeah I mean I remember CCR did a version of heard it through a great song

it's not anywhere near as good as Marvin Kaye's version so there's one example where it didn't quite work but they had a lot of good songs though CCR yeah and shout out to the California Raisins who who's that all about work but but uh they had a lot of good songs though ccr yeah and shout out to the uh california raisins who uh who's that all about that you couldn't you couldn't do that today i don't

think california raisins that was that was pretty i'm insulting in a way to motown groups i think but uh man did they have a moment like i remember that moment in the 80s where they seemed to be everywhere like the california they had like hit albums. They, you know, cover songs. Like I was introduced to some Motown music through the, believe it or not through the,

through the, the grapes or whatever they were, the California raisins, but shout out to the California raisins. Yeah. I'm hoping they'll get back together. Anything's possible in 2021. Hey,

so I said, there's one more quick technical thing and I'm not here to shame you. I would never shame you. I have so much respect for you as a singer songwriter and a human being. But when I write you an email, I'm writing an AOL account. So is this just, you've held onto this since 1994 or what's the deal there? I'm yeah. I mean, I'm just hopeless with all, I don't even have a cell phone. So it's when I got on, I'm, yeah, I mean, I'm just hopeless with all, I don't even have a cell phone. So it's, when I got on, I mean, I've had the same email address since 1995.

Right, right. That explains it. if you remember. And it was quite expensive. And one day I was at the airport and this guy in front of me was a friend of mine from St. Catharines. And I was asking him, well, what are you doing now? And he said, oh, well, I'm the president of AOL Canada. And he set me up with a free account back then. And he was actually the voice of You've, you've got mail for Canada. And, um, yeah, so, so I just had this free account and you know, and then now it's free everywhere, but, so I've just stuck with it, but I'm still afraid one day I'll go to sign on and it won't exist anymore. And maybe that'll be a good thing. I don't know. It'd be time to get a Gmail account. Is that still a thing? I don't know. That's still a thing, my friend. that's still a thing my friend uh okay i love it hang on

you're not the only fotm to have aol account because uh mike wilner still rogs the uh he uh covers the jays for the toronto star he covered he he still has an aol account too and by the way you're not the only ron fotm to not carry a cell phone ron hawkins doesn't carry a cell phone you mean ronnie hawkins or ron hawkins the lowest of the lows of the low ron hawkins does not carry a cell phone so when i need to get a hold of them i literally have to like get a hold of like lawrence nichols who i don't know leaves a message somewhere and then it's like old it's like i kind of think it's kind of quaint it like takes you back to like uh the the early 90s or whatever yeah actually just one more thing about well um i find sometimes they'll be old older sort of rock

musicians that are still on it like i i had i've had a few conversations with russell from sparks is on on aol and as well as albert hammond remember? You know, it never rains in Southern California. Yeah. So, so, so there's at least three of us on there. Keep the spirit alive as they say. Okay. You mentioned St.

Catherine's. So before we begin, this is your life, Ron, are you aware? Like, I'm naturally curious. Have you ever heard an episode of Toronto Mike before,

or do you just? Yeah. Well, I watched the one with Kevin Hearn, you know, and I've seen the one with Rick, Rick Camp and yeah I mean I've seen a few but I mean but I but before you're doing this like I I knew you from somewhere else didn't weren't you on another show at some point or uh no no uh no I was I had the blog forever torontomomic.com. And then it started a podcast nine years ago.

It became a podcast as well. But yeah, I've never actually like worked in radio or television or anything like that. Because after some reason I thought that's, yeah, I don't know. I'm flattered you think that. You think somebody would pay me to do this. Like that's exciting to me. But remember, I'm on AOL. So I'm not the most, you know, I don't have my hand on the pulse of things.

I love it. So you're born in St. Catharines. That's right. But where are we speaking to you from today, Ron? Well, my wife and I moved to Stratford in 2017. I'd lived in Toronto actually for 30 years. But the first 18 or so was spent in St. Catharines. I grew up there and had my childhood and all that stuff.

So it's a nice place to grow up. I love this question while we have you in St. Catharines. What neighborhood in Toronto did you live in, by the way? Like neighborhood. Well, the first 15 years when it was another lifetime ago when I had my kids and my first partner. We lived on the sort of little India. And we lived on this really strange street called Craven Road, which has houses only on one side

of it, and the other side is this fence that goes, I think it's someone told me it was in the guinness book for being the something like longest fence or something i don't know if that's true but um but for the last 15 or 16 years uh i lived in trinity ballot um you know we just rented like this crumbling row house that the cheap the rent was so we couldn't move, you know, and, but eventually we had to move because just the housing, you know, we couldn't afford a house there. And, and it was getting so kind of crowded and trendy. And, and I was feeling really out of place, you know, so, so we had a, yeah, we made a run for it. Well, definitely where the cool kids are hanging out these days,

in that neck of the woods, for sure. So you're saying the cool kids push you out for not being a cool enough kid? No, I wouldn't say that. But I did feel towards the end, you know, I would go to the communist daughter or the Dakota. I didn't know anybody anymore. You know, there was a period where I'd go and it was kind of a scene and I'd see my friends.

And then I started to feel like the old guy at the at the bar um so I just felt I probably would still be there if it wasn't for Colleen she was really the instigator um and and we've just been so much better and so much sort of closer since we moved here you know I've never owned a house before, so I still can't believe, you know, I have this house with a yard, which we never had in Toronto. So we made all these new friends here. And I remember when I moved, I told Colleen,

I don't want to meet anyone, you know. I just want to be this sort of hermit. But it didn't really work out that way. Well, good. I mean, because it's been tough. If you move there, I mean, you did get a couple years in before the pandemic, but I'm sure the last, whatever it's been, 19 months or whatever, couldn't be easy if you're in fairly new surroundings. You don't feel too isolated, or is that why the dad

jokes emerged on Twitter? You know, Stratford has been actually not bad for COVID. I mean, you know, we can walk around the river and I mean, we sort of bubbled with some friends here. And, you know, in the beginning, you know, we couldn't see anybody except we talked to people on the street, maybe on their porch or something. But, you know, after a while, you're allowed to be with five people or 10 people. And that's pretty much our whole social scene here. So, the parties kind of kept going. And there was even last fall, I was doing two gigs a month at this local place called Revival House for, we were allowed 50 people. But everyone, it was just

amazing to play and have a normal night out. I mean, I was playing in front of a window, but everyone was seated. They didn't have to wear their masks at the table, you know? And I, it was just so, I mean, I'd felt so useless up to that point. So it was so good to, you know, it was like, who am I again? Like what do I do for a living so love it it was very important it's funny because i just on saturday night i was invited to pete fowler's home pete fowler was on 102.1 as a radio dj and now he's actually an opp sergeant but in his backyard he had a few great

musicians including stephen stanley and uh blaham. Oh, I love Blair, yeah. Yeah, so they perform live in his backyard Saturday night. I'm there. There's a campfire. I'm on like a lawn chair back there. I brought my own Great Lakes beer. And, oh, my goodness, like what a wonderful night of live music. And you're like, oh, I miss this.

This is great. Yeah, and, I mean, it has to come back. It's so weird to turn on. I was watching the US Open or whatever the other day, and it's jam pads with people right up to the Raptors, and nobody's wearing a mask or anything. I mean, it's a bit worrisome, but I hope we can get back to that. Just, you know, I mean, it's, I know I've missed it,

just that, you know, the last few months, I was able to play a couple outdoor gigs for like a hundred people or so. And that, that was just incredible. You almost want to cry when you walk out on stage because not that I ever took it for granted, but I think when, you know, the thought of it not being there, it's just, it's the alternative. I mean, it's just so sad. Oh my goodness. I'm so

glad we're getting back to it and I'm going to take you way back here, Ron, because this question from Mike from Kdub introduces this chapter nicely. He says, does he that's you, Ron, does he remember five cent chicken wings at the Lions? And before you

even answer that, because my question was going to be asking you, weren't you a little young to be playing the Lions Tavern? So tell us about this, the Lions Tavern and the Five Cent Chicken Wings. Yeah, well, Lions Tavern, which I don't think it's there anymore, but my very first ever professional gig was there. And my older brother, Don, used to play in a covers band and when I was 16 they would let me come in and watch and um you know they were very protective of me there you know they they would sort of sneak me beers and things and um so when I graduated

high school I was trying to think what can I do to make some money to buy Christmas presents and so I went down and auditioned for the Lions and I had to get a permission slip from the Ontario government in case the police came in or whatever you know so I would you know the first two years I played there I was underage but when I wasn't on stage I had to go sit in this room by myself with a dartboard, you know, but they kind of loosened up on that not long after, and the only time they would sort of hide me if, you know, if the police did come in, but even then, I was, I did have my papers, but it was a great place for me to just work it out, because I, I just be on stage at that age in front

of a bunch of drunks and stuff and learning how to deal with that and and just learning songs because I was just doing cover songs back then what you had the the nickname or the moniker the one-man jukebox? Yeah, that was from the St. Catherine's Standard did this article. I mean, I'd only been playing there for about three weeks. And that was sort of the caption, the one-man jukebox. So, I mean, I don't know if that was accurate. I mean, I was very eager to please. So every week people would say, hey, could you learn this one for next week?

Or sometimes they'd even buy me an album and say hey could you learn this one for next week or sometimes they'd even buy me an album and say hey you know learn this song and that song and I was like a performing monkey in a way I just I would do four sets a night I was usually without a voice by the end of every night I was just you know screaming through the smoke and and all that trying to get it across but I was packing them in. For a few years, I packed them in. And I think – and I wasn't even very good. I think what it was, I had a lot of – just so much enthusiasm that it was infectious or something.

So – and then ultimately I wore out my welcome there after about five years. But it was just a real education that, you know, you can't buy an education like that. No, no doubt. Now, what basically, what's the catalyst that causes you to, you know, stop being the one-man jukebox and write your own material? Well, it used to annoy me sometimes. I would try to throw in one of my songs because I was just starting to write.

And it would just, you know, tumble and go wrong. Like nobody cared. And that would annoy me. And I would get a chip on my shoulder. And I would refuse to play certain songs that they wanted me to. You know, I was tired of playing or whatever. And so it just became a mutual thing where uh you know a friend of mine kurt swingham or great who you should have on your show great artist totally he was the one that told me i

really should move to toronto because um there's no place really in st catherine's to play original music and i was just starting to write and starting to write stuff that I thought was okay. And so, yeah, so there was a whole other soap opera in between where I went tree planting and had a kid and all that stuff. But eventually I made it to Toronto. And by that point, you know, all the changes that had happened in my life, it sort of turned me into a songwriter, you know, just kind of by accident. And that's when I really felt, you know, maybe I could make a go of it. And Kurt ended up producing your, There's a Way, your full-length cassette that you made there.

Yeah. And that was the first time I ever had any kind of interest. You know, he sent it to somebody. He actually just passed away recently, William Tenn, Skinny. He worked at Island Records, and he managed Andrew Cash, and Hayden, he's a great guy. Love Hayden. And he was one of the first record industry people to reach out to me and say, hey, I think you have something, but, you know,

I can't manage you if you're living in St. Catherine's, you know? And so, so that and Kurt and some other encouragement. And it was hard to move to Toronto because I was so broke. I had a kid and, you know, and my former partner, Jocelyn and you know, my family was in St. Catherine. So we had help for babysitting and it was, it was not easy and um but I'm so glad we we did we you know because you have to kind of go out on a limb sometimes yeah no doubt no doubt now I so we've talked about Kurt Swinghammer but there's another

gentleman who kind of a big advocate for you at this time but tell us about your friendship and working with Bob Wiseman. Yeah, Bob Wiseman. I met him almost immediately after moving to Toronto. It was so strange because I got there. I was such an upheaval to get there. And I figured, well, what do I do? I have to go to the open stages. If I'm a songwriter, that's what I heard you're supposed to do.

So I met him at the very first open stage I went to, which was at Sneaky D's, but the original Sneaky D's? Right. The Blur and Bathurst? I think there's a Pizza Pizza there now. And he was the one that came up to me and said there's really only

one folk or coffee house that's worth going to, and that's Fat Albert's. And that's, I should go there on Wednesdays in the basement of a church on Bloor Street. And so I just started going there. And that's where I heard Bob Snyder and the late Sam Larkin, who I loved, and Kip Harness. All these songwriters were way, way better than me.

I mean, they still are. And I just learned so much. And Bobby, at the time, was this guy in Blue Rodeo, and he was producing all these people. And so he offered to produce me. I had to come up with the money to buy the actual tape for it, you know, but the studio, all the studio costs, he covered, you know, he had some kind of membership at a studio there on the Great Hall, I think. So, yeah, I mean, and the thing with Bobby is he's such a, I mean, sometimes, you know, he's a bit of a, I don't know, he's a very sarcastic person.

And sometimes I wasn't even sure if he was my friend, you know, he'd be a very sarcastic person. And sometimes I wasn't even sure if he was my friend, you know, because he could be very, you know, sort of condescending. And I loved the guy, but he would also drive me up the wall. And it took forever to make that record. But the great thing about Bobby is when he did make it, he shopped it around. He took it to all the labels, you know, he, and when they And when I got turned down by everybody, he sent it down to Los Angeles. And that's when the doors started opening.

So in a way, I'm forever in his debt. I don't think I'd be talking to you right now if it wasn't for Bob. But, yeah, he's one friend that I have who sometimes I wonder if he's my friend, but I think he is. And, but, but yeah, there were times where I wasn't sure. It's recently in the backyard, I had Mike Bogusky over who is the current keyboardist for Blue Rodeo. And we were joking that, you know, people are still calling him bob like that's the uh the legend of bob wiseman in terms of his uh his uh performing with the with blue rodeo by the way before i was in pete fowler's backyard for that fantastic night of stephen stanley and blair packham the only

concert i had seen in the last 19 months was blue rodeo at the budweiser stage so how was that i i loved it because we actually we had a big storm that night. I was biking to the performance and the storm was so fierce and frightening, to be quite honest. I spent at least 30 to 40 minutes underneath the Humber Bay Bridge, like literally, I felt like it's, you know,

low as low as that song under the Carlisle Bridge. But I was under the Humber Bay Bridge just to find some like refuge because this rain was coming in sideways. It was quite the storm. And then for the Alan Doyle, Alan Doyle opened and the rain was still light at that point,

but it all cleared up just magically for Blue Rodeo and it ended up being a beautiful, beautiful night. And it was fantastic. It was just great to be amongst people. I played the next night in Bayfield and a tornado blew through. And I played half an hour. Then we all had to go running for shelter.

And about 50 minutes later, I was finally able to finish the show. But it was crazy. So Bayfield, whereabouts is that? Because whereabouts is that? That's not too far from where I am. It's about 45 minutes from Stratford. They call it Ontario's West Coast. It's Lake Huron.

Okay, so you're ready for this? Okay, so the next night. So Blue Rodeo, that's a Saturday night. Then that next morning, the Sunday morning, I take three of my four kids, I take them camping at Pinery. Oh, I love it, yeah. And that night, that Sunday night, one of our rituals at Pinery, they love Pinery is that of course you have to go to every sunset on Lake Huron because

it's the most beautiful sunsets in the province and they love it because you don't see that in Toronto, that sunset. So we, that night, I guess at like 8.05 PM or something, the sun setting on Lake Huron, this is Sunday night, about 8.10, again, the most ferocious storm strikes like this thing was just and and we're we're on the beach like literally we're running we actually went into the car for like 30 minutes because it was so much lightning right there but that sounds like that must be the the system that got you in Bayfield uh that Sunday night I think it was at the Ida the you know um but even last night they had the craziest lightning storm. It was doing this strobe light effect for, like, forever.

I mean, the world just seems really unstable in more ways than one these days. I mean, I'm supposed to go to Europe next year to finally do my tour from 2020. Just the idea of getting on a plane. I mean, everything about it kind of makes me a bit nervous actually you know um just it's just it really does feel kind of dystopian i guess is the cliche word but well you know you're not alone ron because uh having you know as a society having endured this past you know 18 months or so of like don't get within six feet of anybody don't go inside with anybody you don't live with this whole like it's not like you can just like on a dime everybody can just turn the switch and then say okay that like there's going

to be lingering like psychological effects i think it's going to take some people quite a long time like i think it could take years and years for some people to sort of readapt to what we took for granted prior to 2020. When I think about those kids who grew up, who were born during the pandemic and had never known anything else, you know, like I was voting the other day, the early voting, and, you know, they have these little markers on the ground for how, you know, for spacing. And, you know, years from now, there may be be kids wondering what are those little markers about, but there's a lot of stuff that's going to stick around that. I mean, I, who would have thought, right. That we'd be going through this.

It's definitely the weirdest thing I've ever experienced. And this kind of saddest thing in a way too. Oh, agreed completely. Now, let me get some facts right here. Okay, so the Bob Wiseman album that took a long time for him to produce, mainly because he probably was busy with that other gig he had with Blue Rodeo. But is that Grand Opera Lane? Yeah.

And by the way, I felt I was a bit hard on Bob. I love Bob Wiseman. I just felt, you know, there's some times he could be, you know, he would get under my skin. But, yeah,, he was busy not only with the rodeo, but he was also producing. Yeah. I was in a queue, you know, I was sort of like a fourth of people he was producing. Um, and I couldn't really rush him cause he was paying for everything. I didn't have any money. So, um, which is amazing, really? Like that's amazing. have any money. Which is amazing, really. Like, that's amazing. Yeah, it was so generous. It was incredible. And the fact that he never gave up chopping it around, you know, he really believed

in what I was doing. I remember when I first met him, he said, you remind me of Elvis Presley. And I was like, well, I was actually, I'm born on Elvis's birthday, you know. And as a kid, for me, it was always a sort of cosmic thing especially when i was struggling to make it in music you know i tell myself why i have to make it i'm born on elvis presley's birthday you know um so so he kind of saw me as that kind of thing that right um i'm just so glad that he knew some folks in la because la doesn't care what's going on on queen street you know like all the labels in Canada they would see that I wasn't packing them in and they would they would leave well I

was going to ask you like why was Grand Opera Lane rejected by the Canadian labels like they just what they they were looking for like a quick a quick uh hit here or what exactly I think they were looking for a buzz that wasn't that didn't exist for me in Toronto. I mean, I would play sometimes at the Cameron House for two people, and that would be the night the record company person would come out, and they would think, oh, this guy's not happening. You know, and so I think that's what, it was just sort of a short-sightedness, really, not being able to see the bigger picture. And like I say say thankfully in la

at the time the record companies were just throwing money around like crazy and and they didn't care you know that anyone was coming to see me in toronto because they could fix that by putting out a record you know so could we uh could we listen to a little bit of speaking with the angel here and then chat a bit more on the other little bit of speaking with the angel here and then chat a bit more on the other side okay and speaking with the angel that's from uh grand opera lane right yeah and i it was also i put it on my debut record as well because it's the one that got me my record deal well exactly so this is a great segue to that which is a which is a great story so here's a little bit of speaking with the angel and then i'll fade it down and and talk with the

singer-songwriter himself. Here we go. He don't know how to lie Or undermine you He don't know how to steal, how to deal or deceive So leave him alone, set him free Cause he's speaking with the angel Speaking with the angel That only he can see You say he's so helpless

But what about you? You don't pull the strings Don't you know anything Leave him alone Let him be Cause he's speaking with the angel Speaking with the angel That only he can see

I was only going to play 45 seconds, but it's so damn pretty. What can you share with us about writing Speaking with the Angel? Well, here's the deal. I told you I went tree planting and I met the girl there and got her pregnant. And I was 20 or something. And so it was a big deal. And at the time, we didn't know each other. And I didn't know if she was going to keep the baby.

And she went back to Quebec, you know. So at the very last minute, I was watching the calendar. And I knew he was due to be born in March. So I got a train ticket, met her in Quebec. And that night, she went into labor. And I had a baby the next day. And my parents didn't know. Nobody knew.

It was a huge secret. And the first night we brought Christopher home, there was a piano. And we were actually living in a barn. And I just wrote Speaking with the Angel while he was on the floor on a baby blanket making these baby sounds. And I'd never really written a song before. I tried, but I've had really bad attempts in the past. But I just wrote this song, and I didn't even really think much of it. It was just this, my wife, Jocelyn, at the time had said,

I guess there's a French expression when babies are talking that they're speaking with the angel. And that just sort of made the light bulb come on over my head. But that song, though, is the one that's most responsible for opening kind of all the doors. It got me in my publishing deal and then the record deal as well. Wow. Like, I had goosebumps when you tell that story about baby Christopher

and then having, it's like divine intervention or something. But that's wonderful, man. It really felt mystical. You know, even the songs I wrote on there's way with Kurt Swinghammer, that was one of the songs, but I didn't think that much of it. So I didn't even make it on that record on there's a way. But it was just so amazing for me because I'd felt really useless most of my life. And all of a sudden having the baby and all

these changes I kept having these ideas and melodies coming into my head it was almost as it was almost if if God was sort of saying well you did the right thing you know you showed up and that I'm going to give you this gift I know that sounds crazy but that's how it felt to me at the time. And so I was writing all these songs with that in mind in a way, in a sort of a spiritual way. And I have never stopped writing songs since. So it just still strikes me as kind of a mystical time for me. Wow. And I know you mentioned that you were born on Elvis's birthday, And I know you mentioned that you were born on Elvis's birthday, but I'm going to ask you about another Elvis. And not Elvis Stoico.

Shout out to Elvis Stoico. But Elvis Costello, he was a big fan of your self-titled album. That comes from the contract that Speaking with the Angel helped you earn, and you put out your self-titled album in 95, I guess we're at now. Yeah, and the thing is, that's a whole other story but the album you know when it came out in 95 it came out under those sort of worse circumstances you know the the label was not happy with the album i made they wanted me to scrap it and do the whole thing over and and i i trying to politely kind of, you know, put my foot down. I really was proud of it. And so they put it out, but they didn't work it. So you couldn't hear it

on the radio. You couldn't even find it. And they were about to drop me in December of 95 when Elvis Costello did the thing where he held it up on a magazine cover for Mojo. And that changed everything for me. That was like Bob Wiseman times two, you know. It was like the shot heard around the world. And all of a sudden they thought, well, we need to get this album out overseas because that's where he's going to find his audience. And it was true. So I went over, spent all of 96 96 going to UK, New Zealand, Japan.

And and then I it was kind of what's the word vindication, really, because they did not like me at Interscope at the time. And all of a sudden, you know, I ended up making like three more albums for them. And eventually, I mean, you got to meet and play with Elvis, right? Yeah. In fact, in 96, when all that sort of buzz was going on, I was doing a show in Nashville at a church, you know, everyone's sitting on pews. And I was just about to launch into my first song. It was like a movie when the back door of the church opened up and Elvis comes walking in with his wife at the time. And, you know, I just stopped and waited for him to walk down the aisle and into his pew, right in the front row, actually. I remember my leg was just

shaking. He nodded at me, you know, and smiled. And afterwards, we hung out. And we kind of hung out the whole weekend. We had breakfast the next day. And it was just so surreal, you know, just to, here's this guy, kind of my savior in a way. And we've kind of remained friends, and we've toured together. And, you know, even not that long ago when I did Long Player Late Bloomer he was the first person to hear it

I played it in a car with him we were in the back seat he listened to the whole record in the back of the car so anyway you know who's listening right now and is getting very very jealous is next week I have a gentleman

returning to the show to kick out the jams because lots of times people come in like you're doing now. They do their deep dive, if you will, kind of like an A to Z, and then they return to kick out their favorite songs of all time. Richard Krause, his name is. He's on a lot of Bell Media stations covering movies and such. We follow each other on Twitter, yeah. Richard's going to kick out the jams next week,

and spoiler alert, his favorite artist of all time is Elvis Costello. Well, that's not hard to believe, you know. I mean, Elvis, you know, when he came on the scene, it was really like Dylan or anyone. I mean, he had such an influence

on a lot of the songwriters who came after him. And he was so prolific. I can't really think of another artist that was always coming at you with something from a different angle. And he's kind of a remarkable artist and human being. Now, while we're on this topic of you meeting these musical legends here, I just got to ask you, you met Paul McCartney?

Yeah, and that's probably my most, I don't know, famous or most, you know, maybe tired. Sorry. I don't know, but I met him in, it was crazy. Again, this is when all the sort of hoopla was going on in 96 and I was in the UK for the first time. And I got, my first tour of the UK was opening for the band Squeeze. You know, you know, Tempt did that. Of course. Yeah. And so we were having a good time.

It was just a squeeze on plug tours. So it's Chris and Glenn and me traveling around. And we had a, you know, we had a day off one Sunday. And Chris Difford asked if I wanted to spend the night at his place on Saturday. And he lived like 10 minutes from McCartney so um and he had mentioned on the ride home like oh maybe I'll give him a call tomorrow and see if they're around and that just seemed like just crazy talk to me you know and so the next morning he called them and Linda I you know Linda picked up the phone and

and they had heard of me because I was in the mojo and the queue and all that stuff. And so they invited us over for breakfast on a Sunday, and it was just, I still can't believe it, really. I mean, he was in his pajamas, and, you know, Linda was cooking, and the dogs were running around. So we had breakfast, and we played some songs together, and he played some new tracks on his stereo, which is got to use one of his his water closet. You know, I mean, the whole thing was crazy.

It's almost like hearing you talk about it. Like, like, do you ever pinch yourself like, oh, that that wasn't a dream like that actually happened? That's so that's so surreal. It is. I'm still pinching myself. so that's so surreal it is i'm still pinching myself i remember before i left through england a friend of mine said hey say hi to the beatles for me jokingly you know because i never thought i'd ever meet any of those guys and i mean i ended up meeting ringo two years later but but the paul thing was unbelievable because um he was sitting kind of like where you are for me just right across the table and i couldn't even look at him at first right i was so kind of like where you are for me, just right across the table. And I couldn't even look at him at first, right?

I was so kind of like looking at the floor. And Linda, she was so sweet. You know, she came over and she said, oh, you're from Canada. Well, you know, I used to be a huge Gordon Lightfoot fan. And that sort of opened me up. I'm like, oh, my God, yeah. And even Paul was like, oh, he's written some good songs, or, you know, like that. So we, and Chris, you know, Chris Difford was there too.

And we, so it was just so, while it was happening, it felt very much in slow motion in a way. And I just, I was there for maybe three hours. And I remember thinking as we left that I could, we could have a head-on collision. I wouldn't matter. I just had the best, best day of my life. I'm sure on the cover of Sergeant Pepper, there's a OPP logo on that cover. I'm just, yeah,

there's an OPP logo. So there's your connection there. But honestly, and Gordon Lightfoot, again, because i hear the name and then it sparks that if people haven't listened to last week's uh deep dive with leona boyd after you and finish listening to ron sexsmith make his debut go listen to leona boyd make her debut on toronto mic i only bring that up because leona kind of got her start opening for gordon lightfoot in concert back in the early 70s so it was funny with the i with leona's i was making a working on a record in new york once and i'm in the in the out in the studio booth singing and then i see this woman back there in the in the console room like was that leona

boy and and it was it was the great it was the strangest thing and she was there with a friend i can't remember what they were doing at the studio, but it was nice, really nice to meet her. And so random, you know, that she would be there. Wild. Now, I'm going to ask you about a Hamilton guy. But before I ask you about this Hamilton guy, I need to get some geography figured out. I think I know the answer, but I'm going to ask you anyway. Stratford. Is Stratford in the GTHA, the Greater Toronto Hamilton Area? No. No. It's more like Huron, Perth, right? Towards London and Sarnia and all those places. I mean, literally, when I go to Grand Bend, often I'll drive through Stratford. Like, I actually knew my answer before I asked it. But the reason I was asking is because if you live in the G-T-H-A, you can get your chef and restaurant prepared meal kits from chefdrop.ca. It's fantastic. Like there's great restaurants and chefs that are aligned with chefdrop at chefdrop.ca. I've tried it. It's amazing. But if you did, and I feel terrible saying this, Ron,

but I would be giving you a $75 gift card to use at ChefDrop.ca, but they only delivered a GTHA. But you know what? Honestly, if you have a family member or a loved one in the GTHA, this can be used by them and ChefDrop will be fine with that.

Like we can find a way for you to benefit from this $75 gift from Chef Drop. No, send it our way. And I mean, I'm sure I know someone that's hungry. In Stratford, actually, I mean, we have the chef school here, you know. Oh, the culinary arts, yeah. Culinary arts and the theater. And so it's a cool little town, actually. Oh, yes, absolutely. And Petereter mansbridge does he live in there he lives on my street okay because he's

scheduled to make his toronto mic debut i think in a couple of weeks oh well i've met i mean i met him once here in town and when i first moved in cynthia dropped off a bouquet of flowers oh my god she went to my high school she's a. Oh my God. She went to my high school. She's a little older than me, but she went to my high school. Yeah. And she, so I've seen her occasionally. And,

and we've had a, Peter and I have had a couple Twitter exchanges, but, but yeah, I just, yeah, he just lives literally up the street. I love it.

It's like everyone I know in Stratford lives on the same street. That's like, that's how you, you know, it's like, oh, you know, you know,

Peter, yeah, he's down the street. Okay, amazing. But I want to tell listeners, FOTMs in the GTHA, that they can save 20% right now on their first order at chefdrop.ca

if they use the promo code FOTM20 during this month of September. I urge you to do it. It lets ChefDrop know that you're listening and that it works and you'll love it and you'll be back for more. So again, FOTM20 at checkout saves you 20% on your first order at chefdrop.ca.

And I mentioned Hamilton. So who do I want to ask you about? I want to ask you about the great Hamiltonian, Daniel Lanois. Yeah. Well, Daniel is someone that we go back quite a ways because he'd actually heard my Grand Opera Lane cassette. And I don't remember, maybe his sister had it, I think.

And so when I was still a courier, I worked for a Sunwheel Courier Company. You know, I used to call home every day to see how everything was going. And one day I called home and she said that Daniel Lamarco and this was still quite a few years before I had any record offers or anything so so you know as you can imagine that really made my day and he left his number so we we talked afterwards and um you know then he ended up uh he took all the photos you know for my first album um in Kensington Market and then later on I had an album called Retriever and he took all the photos for my first album in Kensington Market. And then later on, I had an album called Retriever, and he took all the photos for that.

But we never got to make a record together, unfortunately. He did produce a sort of bonus track on my first album, and that was because the label hated my album so much. They wanted me to redo the whole thing with him, which was a bit awkward because I loved him, and i loved the work i did with mitchell froome um anyway i mean i he's someone i see on occasion and i always i mean he's always been nice to me and what a career i mean amazing career he's had and you dedicated retriever to uh ell and Johnny Cash. Yeah, they both died that same year. And I never met Johnny Cash, but I did meet Elliot a few times.

I met him in London and once in Los Angeles. And, you know, you meet a lot of people in this business, and some people are very nice, you know, and he was very nice. And so you remember those ones especially. He seemed really, just really sweet and shy and i i also i loved his music and it was just always just was really flattered that he even knew who i was um and then yeah and then he died uh i guess would have been in 2003 i think uh but uh yeah it was way too soon. Without a doubt. Now, the label

wanting some Land Wall magic, you know what they're looking for? They're like, let's get another Joshua tree. That's what they're saying. Oh, we need another, we need a Joshua tree here. Get some Land Wall magic in there. Well, I think what they were looking for was more of a, we need a wrecking ball.

That's what they were hoping more, it was more of a, we need a wrecking ball, you know, we need a wrecking ball. That's what they were hoping I might do. And, you know, we tried on a couple other occasions to make a record and both times he got too busy. One, he was doing a Sling Blade soundtrack and, and another time we were going to make the record and he was too busy with, I can't remember if it was Peter Gabriel or you two, one of those guys. Sure. One of those guys.

All right, I have a question, a few questions for you here. But one is, this is another question from Mike from Kdub. He says, Ron is great at interpreting other songwriters' tunes. His version of Every Day I Write the Book is fabulous. Does he have a favorite cover song to play? And is there a cover of one of his songs that he really likes yeah i mean i don't know if you know this but i have a channel on youtube called ramboy where i've done probably over a thousand cover songs and and i do this weekly series of you know

for five days a week like this i'm doing one now 70 songs you know um so i i it would be really hard to pick a favorite cover song um although lately i've been playing this song by warren zeevon a lot called the heartache that i just love that if you haven't heard it it's a beautiful song um and in terms of my own stuff um i always liked feist's version of secret heart i i thought it was so most people tend to do it pretty straight like how like how i do it you know but her version had a kind of euro pop thing that was really cool um and also katie lang did a version of a song michael fallen that was interesting because my version's in a 3-4 time, and she did it straight 4-4. And I always wondered who made that decision

because it was such a cool one. Could I play a little of your Sacred Heart? Sure. Just a little right now. Okay, here's a little bit of Ron Sexsmith's Sacred Heart. Sacred Heart Secret Heart Could it be three simple words? Or the fear of being overheard? What's wrong?

Let her in on your secret heart. Secret heart Why so mysterious Why so sacred Why so serious Maybe you're Just acting tough Maybe you're just not man enough

What's wrong? Let her in on your secret heart This very secret you're trying to conceal Is the very same one you're dying to reveal Go tell her how you feel Ron, what's it like to hear yourself, like when you listen back to some of your music? What's that like?

Well, that's from my first album, and I was still finding my voice in a way. It was so impressionable. And I remember Mitchell Froome had produced an album for a guy named Little Jimmy Scott, who was this jazz singer who really back phrased a lot, you know. And he told me, he goes, you know, you remind me of Little Jimmy Scott because you back phrase. And I wanted to impress him so much so when I hear myself singing that now I just hear myself back phrasing where if I were to do that song now I

probably would have sang it more more straight um you know well you're a talented mofo. Can I say that? Well, yeah, thank you. But for me, that song was important because it was finding my voice as a songwriter, you know, trying to write something that maybe Buddy Holly would have done. That's what I was sort of going for on that. But yeah, I think I didn't really start singing any good personally until my Retriever album. So sometimes I wish I could go back and take another stab at it. Well, you can. John Prine used to do that, right? I feel like you can sing it from this perspective in 2021. You can kind of reimagine it, which I always did when songwriters do that.

I get to do it live. I mean, I still sound relatively the same, but back then I was younger and my voice was a bit more nasally or vibrato or something. And I've been sort of shaving away and just trying to tweak it as I go along and just get better at it. But now I feel like I'm singing better than I've ever sung. But maybe that's just me, you know, I don't know. A moment, if you will, about Ray Davies and the kinks here, because I know you recorded This Is Where I Belong for the tribute album,

but then you also performed Misfits with Ray Davies at a festival in London, England. Like, what's it like? Like, we hear the stories of the brothers and everything. Like, just what's it like, you know, meeting and playing for Ray Davies? Well, for me, it's meeting McCartney, you know, because he's like, he was the one.

We have an internet garble, so we're going to, maybe we start the Ray Davies talk again. Can you hear me? This is the Stratford Wi-Fi here. Okay, so for the listenership, Ron is frozen. Like, he's frozen in time, which I'm hoping this is very temporary because I got a bunch more questions from listeners to get to.

But I will take this opportunity to thank Great Lakes Brewery. Delicious fresh craft beer. They're in LCBOs across this fine province, even in Stratford. So much love to Great Lakes Beer. And Ron, can you hear me now? Oh, so I can't hear you right now. We're going to get wrong. Oh, okay, you're back.

Yes, okay. So start again with the Ray Davies talk because it garbled, the internet garbled on us. Yeah, well, as I was saying, you know, for me, Ray's as big as anyone. He's like, you know, songwriting God or something. And, you know, when I'd heard his, I heard them for the first time when I was 15. I heard all day and all the night. And I'm sure it was the same as someone hearing that for the first time in 65. It just like, I just could not believe what I was hearing.

And I went out and bought this one called Golden Hour of the Kinks, which had about 20 songs on it. called Golden Hour of the Kinks, which had about 20 songs on it. And I just, it just blew my mind. Because before that, I just really wanted to be a singer. And people like Dylan and the Beatles just seemed way too cool that I could never do that, you know, what they were doing. But for something, there was something about Ray Davies, an awkward thing or, you know, he was a bit flat when he sang. There's something about that I felt I could maybe do that.

And so I hear he's probably the songwriter who's most in my DNA when you listen to my music. So when I got to finally perform with him in London, and I'd met him before as a fan or backstage. I got his autograph and stuff. But to sort of be there on the same stage with him in London. And I'd met him before as a fan or, you know, backstage, I got his autograph and stuff, but to sort of be there on the same stage with him was just a dream come true. And we did it again actually in Toronto about a year later when he,

at his show. So now I feel like, and you know, he's always been nice to me because I could, you know, I've heard tales that he's a bit of a dark horse sometimes, but he's always been nice with me, thankfully. And I've had a bit of a, you know, Twitter dialogue with his brother recently, too, which is so, that's pretty, you know, surreal as well. But yeah, Ray is like, I think he takes the cake in many ways. Awesome. Awesome. awesome awesome and just i want to just uh recognize uh some of your you know accomplishments

and uh particularly like tell us how many junos have you been nominated for well i've been nominated way more times than i've won but uh i think i think i've been nominated about nine nine times wow but i've won i've won three and um the the first one and they're all different the first you know one was the pointy one and then i won the whatever the next one and so and i think to be honest my juno winning days are probably over because we're at a whole new phase now in a way you know and the last time I was nominated and won was the 2014 Junos. Okay. I had a record called Forever Endeavor.

And that was hard because I'm sitting next to the Sadies who were also nominated, and they're friends of mine. And whenever they're reading out the names, I don't know what it's like for everybody else, but I'm always saying to myself, don't pick me, don't know what it's like for everybody else but i'm always saying to myself don't pick me don't pick somebody because that's the hardest part is going i have to have to get up on stage and say something uh so but i but i don't really see you know there was a period where i was going to journals almost every year and and i think those days are long gone all right a few

more quick hits before i get to the questions because listeners sent in a bunch of questions for you. Quick note though, that I would have, and I hope I can still do this at some point when I get to meet you in person, I will be able to give you a large lasagna, frozen lasagna from Palma Pasta because palmapasta.com are proud sponsors of the show and everybody who drops by in the backyard or down here, if you're fully vaxxed, you get your lasagna. So hopefully one day I can

hook you up with some Palma pasta. All right. That's a promise. Okay. A couple of quick hits. One is that you're a published novelist. Yeah. Go figure. I mean, that's just crazy. Yeah. Go figure. I mean, that's just crazy. I wrote a book called Dear Life. It came out in 2017. But I started writing it, or at least thinking about it, about 2014. And it just came to me in a sort of dream state. You know, when you're in the morning, you're in bed, and you're dozing off. You're kind of going between wake being awake and falling asleep and I had this I just had this vision of a boy in the woods and he shoots a dog accidentally

that belongs to a witch and it sort of I didn't know what it was is that a movie or is that a song and so I just kept thinking about it until finally I realized it was, you know, fairy tale. And I actually wrote the thing, which I still can't believe. And now I'm actually trying to get it turned into a movie or, you know, because I've written songs for it now. So it's taken on a life of its own. Can you still pick up Deer Life? We can still order Deer Life? Yeah, I think if you go on wherever people order things on Amazon, there's someone I was talking to in Ireland who just ordered it somehow.

Okay, if they can do it, we can do it. Yeah, but I was really proud of it. I'm sure more, if Neil Gaiman wrote it, it probably would have, you know, hit it out of the park, but I didn't, I never wrote a book before, so there was a lot of I didn't know how to do certain things, but I think

for what it's worth, it turned out pretty well, I hope. Well, check out Dear Life. I think Dundurn Press published that, and I have to ask you about a song you recorded with Coldplay's Chris Martin. But before that, I want to know, because I'm, of course, like many Canadians, like many Earthlings, a big Leonard Cohen fan.

And what was it like doing the, you did a duet with Leonard Cohen in Yorkville of So Long Mary Ann. What was that like? Again, that's such a pinch me moment. We were asked to go, like myself and the Barenaked Ladies, to go and sing for Leonard, you know, he was just going to be there listening. And, you know, so when we got there to the bookstore, I was taken down to the basement, and there was Leonard with the Berenice ladies and a few other people,

and they were already singing. And so Leonard came over to me, put his arm in my arm, and brought me into the circle. And they had him a guitar, and I know tons of his songs. So we started singing Leonard Cohen songs, and I could tell that he was really enjoying really was enjoying it you know singing and so when it came time to do the song we were like oh you should come up and sing with us you know they don't want to hear us and and he was kind of shy about it and he said well I'll go I'll I'll just join in on the choruses and stuff so if you watch the video on YouTube you'll see I start the song

uh so long Marianne but out of the corner of my eye, I could see Leonard is right there. And there's about 5,000 people in the street. They don't want to hear me do it, you know. So when it came time for the second verse, I just sort of, you know, I sort of pointed him towards the mic. And I had to feed him the first line of every verse, though, because it had been years since he'd said, or whatever the first line was,

and he would take it from there. But we were all just beaming. It was such an honor to be on stage with him and to be there for that. You know, people were crying. It was just crazy. Wow. That sounds like a moment, man.

Amazing. That was 2006. And if we go back a little to 2002, you did, well, yeah, there's a gold in them hills you did a duet with uh chris martin what was how did that come to be well that was an accident in a way because um you know i'd recorded the song by myself myself. You know, Chris Martin was a fan of my Blue Boy record and, oh, it says my internet connection is unstable. Yeah, it was, but it seems to be back now. It seems to be okay. And so, so, you know,

when they were mixing my album, for some reason they were doing it in Los Angeles and I wasn't there. They were doing it at David Foster's studio, actually. And Chris Martin somehow found out about it and asked if he could come down and just listen to the new record. And while he was there, I think the producer, Martin Treffi, said, hey, maybe you should play piano on this song, Golden Hills, because Ron's not very confident with his piano play.

And this was in Austria or something, touring. So when I got home, I get this CD in the mail, and it says Golden Hills new mix. New mix, what's this all about? So I put it in my little ghetto blaster thing. And all of a sudden this voice comes on in the second verse. And I was actually kind of annoyed because I didn't know who it was. And I was making all these frenzy of phone calls, figuring out what was going on.

And then, of course, I find out it's Chris Martin. And, you know, so it was this sort of thing. But it turned out to be a obviously a good thing because the label was super excited we ended up putting it on the record as a bonus track and we did two tours with Coldplay all over America and other places and yeah so I mean and they're all great guys though you know, Chris and Guy and Johnny. I mean, they treated us so well. Like sometimes when they were getting to the point where they were on planet Coldplay,

they would let us use their tour buses while they did a private jet everywhere. So it was pretty nice. Amazing, amazing. All right, now we got questions from listenership. But the first one is from me, also a fan of yours. You saw UFO in 2012. Oh, my God. It's the craziest thing. I never cared about UFOs before that. And now I'm watching every dumb documentary that, you know, I need details. Sorry. I need details on this one. What happened here?

I need details on this one. What happened here? Okay. Well, it's 2012 and I'm on my front porch on Bellwoods playing my guitar, which is something I did all the time. And I'm just singing and Colleen was away. And I don't know, when you see something that you have no reference for and that you've never. So I looked up and I see this red triangle in the sky and i just stopped me in my tracks and i literally said what the is is that and i put my guitar down and i walked to the front gate of my house and and i'm looking up at this and just as i'm doing that this other guy who i don't know is coming down the street with his phone and he's filming it and he's saying the same thing he's like what the hell is that a neighbor that i don't know from down the street with his phone and he's filming it and he's saying the same thing he's like what the hell is that a neighbor that i don't know from down the street sees it from his living room and

so the three of us complete strangers are on the street looking up and and it's a triangle but it's not static they're moving around like the top one comes down to join the other one and i've never seen anything like it and then all of a sudden we hear these military jets coming in really loud, and they come right over our house. And this is like about 10 at night too. And all three of the lights like disappear and wait for the jets to be out of sight. And once the jets were gone, the three lights reappeared again, except now they were over the park.

And I remember making a bunch of phone calls. I had some friends who saw it up on College Street, actually, and a few others. I remember calling even Kevin Hearn, who was on tour at the time. I must have sounded like a crazy person. I left a message on his. But it was so kind of profound in a way, and maybe it was some kind of secret you know military thing i don't know but i i've since seen the similar things on these

ufo shows these some you know triangle v-shaped things um so i really don't know how to explain it but i definitely saw one uh and i still kind of sometimes I'll stand on my porch looking up at the sky thinking I'm going to see it again. Wow. I saw a tweet about this and I'm like that's my question. I need to hear about the UFO sighting. Blair wants to know

has the move to Stratford changed the way you approach the writing process? And then like a B part to this question is has the pandemic affected the way you approach the writing process? And then like a B part to this question is, has the pandemic affected your overall creativity? Is that Blair Packham? No, different Blair. Sorry, what was the first part of the question?

Has the move to Stratford changed the way you approach the writing process? It hasn't really changed it because I still write the same way. I mean, I wrote, when the first year I was, I spent in Stratford, I didn't know anybody really. So I was, I walked the river every day and I was just in a really prolific phase. I wrote all the songs from Hermitage and all the songs from my musical at the same time. So I probably wrote about 40 songs or something, you know, between 2017 and 2018. So generally how I write is I walk around and I get a melody going in my head. And sometimes that'll suggest a phrase, a lyrical phrase. And by the time I get home i usually have something going where

i'll sit at the piano and i'll find the the chords that might go with it and then it's just a matter of returning to it over and over until it you know until you finish it so it hasn't really changed i think um i've been a lot happier here i think calling i've been a lot happier here. I think Colleen and I have been a lot closer here. And I think that has had a huge impact on the lyrics of the songs. I feel like we're in a very sort of romantic phase. And, you know, I mean, the world is kind of crazy, but we find ourselves in a relatively calm and sane environment. Nice, nice. Marcus T. writes,

can you ask Ron what his favorite Lung Slug tune is and why it is Bulk Eraser? Oh my God, I don't know if you know Lung Slug, but going back to the early 90s when I was still playing the bars in Toronto, we did a few shows with this band called Lung Slug. I can't even remember how we met them. I think maybe they did a record at Don Kerr's studio or something.

And there's another band, the Boneheads, too. We used to do shows with them. Those guys are great. But Lung Slug, they were kind of like a punk band, but they sort of had this hoser element to what they're doing. And they had the funniest songs, like this one called Stupid Guy that I just love. That's actually my favorite.

But Bulk Eraser, you know, like, you know, Bulk Eraser, it was just certainly catchy kind of nonsense about, you know, accidentally erasing all the tracks, you know, you've done on your record. And they did great covers of like Tilsonburg by Stompin' Tom. Sure. Yeah. So it's actually a song called Stupid Guy that I love.

Okay. Liam says, I'm very curious about the media relations publicity component of the music industry in Canada. How critical is it to gain support from traditional outlets, i.e. CBC? Have you seen that change of the rise of social media? So maybe this is your chance to kind of go on, like maybe dump all your thoughts on this game. Because this ties in with a question I have, which is like how important is commercial success to an artist?

Like I consider you a true artist. How vital is commercial success to you? So I know I've hit you with a lot of stuff. So pick at the parts you want to address here and maybe answer Liam's question there too. Well, I've never had a whole lot of commercial success, really. There's been a few albums that have done better than others, like Long Player Late Bloomer.

Actually, you know, I got a sales award for that record. And in England, I had two top 10 hits. But nothing over here, though, you know, although it sold pretty well. And I had an album called Retriever that had two top 20 hits here in Canada. And it's just fluke. You don't know why that album and not another album or something. And I've always had a fair amount of support at the CBC, which is helpful. I don't really feel that as much anymore.

But there was a time when I think they play me quite a bit. So, I mean, any help is, you know, you can get, you know, but I got used to not expecting it, radio play or anything like that, or even much television. You know, I mean, I never got to do Letterman, although I did get to do Conan O'Brien twice. Nice. What was the other part of the question though about he says he's curious about the yeah the media relations

publicity component of the music industry in canada well well i think with before you put out a record and you just you know and they would talk about oh you have a new record out now it seems a little harder there's so much music out there that they want an angle. What's the angle on this one? I don't know. I mean, did the Carpenters have an angle? They just put out records that had songs on it. But there's just so much competing for your time and your space and everything.

So it has changed a bit. I feel like I'm on sort of the other side of it. I did a tweet last night. I saw some clips from the VMAs, and I just feel like I'm in a completely different line of work, you know? Like I'm from a different planet and a different century. So I don't really relate to, I mean, the people who are doing it now, they have to be quite savvy with their self promotion and just to,

you know, to get, just to be heard above it all. I don't really feel that pressure. I feel that sort of relatively established with the people who are into me. There's still more people that have never heard of me than have heard of me. But so I feel like I can just sort of coast over here on the service road of the music biz and be quite happy. So, but yeah, you know, you have to play the game to a certain extent and, and hopefully the media is on your side and not out to get you.

So have you ever had that moment where where i maybe you were asked to do this like i've heard stories about like you know this record is ready to come out and then they're like no you like bruce springsteen for example they'll be like okay this record's ready and they're like i don't know al davis or something will be like uh we need a hit and then he'll go not that it became a hit but he'll write blind blinded by the light and that'll appear on the album as the hit even though that became a hit for somebody else not him but um like did you ever sit down and say i'm gonna write a hit or are you you're true to your art you're sort of it's this inspiration no not really there's been songs that i've written where i thought oh this could be a hit but i've never sat sat down with that. I mean, I grew up loving hits on the radio.

And in my own universe, I have hits in terms of people that are into me. They'll want to hear Golden Hills or Strawberry Blonde or something. But they weren't commercial. Although one time I made an album called Time Being where all the songs were kind of about mortality and things like that. And at the end of it, I was thinking, I don't really have a single here. And so right before I went in the studio,

I wrote a song called All in Good Time. We just lost you here, Ron. Can you hear me? Well, every time we lose Ron, I'm going to thank another sponsor. So thank you, StickerU.com. Get all your stickers, decals, and everything at StickerU.com. Great partners of the show. Sorry, every time your internet freezes, I thank another sponsor.

Can you hear me now? Yeah, you're back now. Okay, great. So did you hear, I just sang out, I wrote this song all in good time because I didn't feel I had a single. And it was a single. It didn't set the world on fire anything but it was it has become one of those songs that people request or whatever but yeah so I mean I wouldn't even know how to do that to say okay I'm gonna write a hit song they all sound like hits to me but what do I know you know

by the way I watched a lot of that VMAs last night just sort of like to see what I like to keep I have teenagers I like to know what's going on with the kids these days and it is a little bit of like I think this is the same VMAs I used to watch in the early 90s but it's all kind of not that it wasn't always kind of for television style over substance right like

I'm guessing like you know if you look like Brad Pitt it's easier to get like much music, I guess, here in Canada, much music presence or something. Like there's always been that kind of aesthetic over art happening. But now it just seems like that's on overdrive. Like it really does seem to be all about the making noise and capturing your attention. And you get, you know, your songs about big butts and everything, or seem to be like the order of the day, but it does seem strange if you could like transplant

like 1993 Mike, and just say, hey, sit down and watch the 2021. It's sort of a whole different animal, in my humble opinion, but that's just me like, you know, shaking my fist at the cloud, But that's just me, like, you know, shaking my fist at the cloud and saying, get off my lawn to the kids, I think. So scratch that. Okay. Ron, are you frozen? You're missing my wonderful, wonderful diatribe here. So thank you, Ridley Funeral Home.

So Ridley Funeral Home have been pillars of this community since 1921. Brad Jones there is such a wonderful FOTM. Literally just heard the sound of Ron Sexsmith leaving the Zoom. So I'll let him back in. He'll realize that and come back. His internet is wonky. That's Stratford for you. But I'm going to thank McKay's CEO forums because they have a wonderful podcast called the CEO Edge Podcast.

And that's fireside chats with inspiring CEOs and executives. Nancy McKay there does a great job hosting that show. I embed an episode every week on TorontoMike.com and I encourage all FOTMs to subscribe and listen to the CEO Edge podcast from McKay CEO Forums. Ron, you back, buddy? Turn on that microphone. Hello. Okay, good, good. I don't know what's going on. That's okay. turn on that microphone. Hello.

Okay, good. Good. Uh, that's okay. Uh, because, uh, you're in a way that doesn't have all that stops and starts or no,

uh, I refuse. Okay. It's all part of the charm of the program. It's all going to be fine. Mark D says, what is the best advice you ever received? And what is the best advice you have to offer?

Well, before I made my first album, I was in L.A. and meeting with producers, you know, like T-Bone Burnett and all these people. And, you know, and I remember at one point he told me, you should really talk to Harry Nilsson because I think he would. And I was I'm a huge Harry Nilsson fan. And I said, wow, I would love to speak to him. And I remember I was in the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel, and T-Bone told me that Harry Nilsson was going to call. And so I was sitting by the phone all night. And he never called.

So I called T-Bone back, and I told him as much. And he said, well, you know who you need to talk to is a guy named Bob Newarth, who you might know if he was a good friend of Bob Dylan, an artist. He was on the Rolling Thunder. And I didn't know Bob Newarth at all, but I phoned him, cold called Bob Newarth. And we talked for about an hour on the phone. And he just gave me the most amazing advice because I was really uncertain what kind of record to make.

And he just told me, he goes, look, that's your name on the album cover. You could do everything they want you to do, and they still don't like your record, then they don't like you. So you've got to make the record that you like, that you're proud of, so that even if they don't like it then you

at least you can still be proud and that and and that was so important for me to hear because i was so afraid of offending someone or um and i fought for my first album largely because bob north told me to and it was probably the best thing I ever did and would you was that also because I have another similar question from Phil Parkinson who says what's the best advice you would give an 18 year old Ron yeah would it be that or something uh similar to that um I think I and I've said this to a few people I think you know I probably would have just told him to hang in there because it's easy to get discouraged and, you know, just give up. And there was times when I certainly wanted to give up. You're trying to gather your own evidence that you're not crazy for pursuing it, right? And,

you know, and I was a courier and I would play these gigs for two people and I would get very discouraged. And some people would say, oh, maybe you should, you know, apply at the post office or FedEx. And, you know, because this music isn't going to happen. And I would always hold on to something. Well, there's that person that the other night at Say What that really loved the song I played. And you sort of you you tell yourself these things. So you tell you tell yourself you're not crazy. And so I would just say hang in there because, you know, it's not going to happen if you give up, right? I mean, you don't want to be delusional, but persistence is so important, I think. Great advice. Great advice. Perseverance, perseverance. Yeah. excellent advice now again my school rocks

is back to just my school rocks wrote this and i'm going to read it verbatim because it's also about me but he says uh toronto mike and ron sexsmith have farmer-like work ethics they're both outstanding in their fields and i said like it's a comment. It's got a bit of a, yeah, a bit of a Ron Sexsmith dad joke in there, too. But thank you, my school rocks. Yeah, well, it's good to have a good work ethic, I think, right? I mean, you find something that you're good at, and you just do it. Well, how many albums have you put out? 23 or something like that? No, not, no, only 16. Oh, I gave you credit for some other albums. But still, you're prolific and your art is, like I said, excellent. And I really just can't wait to see you live again.

That would be my hopes here. But thank you. Come see me on March 29th at the Danforth Music Hall. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So 2023. Okay. Yeah.

And I love that venue too. For 2022. Oh, my God. You know what? I skipped ahead a yeah. Yeah. So 2023. Okay. Yeah. And I love that venue, too. So 2022. Oh, my God. You know what? I skipped ahead a year. Yeah. Although it might get postponed until 2023. Oh, I hope not.

I hope not. That means we got some strange variant that didn't like our vaccinations. Okay. Dennis says, do you write the melody first or the lyrics? I'd love to know your creative process. says, do you write the melody first or the lyrics? I'd love to know your creative process. Long time fan, first time tweeter. First time tweeter.

Yeah, well, the answer is it's different every time, every song. I mean, there's songs that start with a complete lyric, and then those are usually the easiest ones to write when you have a complete lyric, then you can just write music. And then other times I'll have a melody and no lyrics at all for about a year until I finally figure out what it's about. Maybe this Christmas is probably my most popular song, and that song was a melody for two years before I realized that, oh, I could make this a Christmas song.

But usually, for the most part, what happens, it's a bit of both. It's like a phrase or maybe a first verse with a melody that I sing over and over until I, you know, it sort of points me in the direction of the next verse or something. So, so it's, it is all of the above really. Sometimes a song starts with a chord progression and, you know, no melody, just a progression. So it's just whatever it is, you get this little bit of inspiration and then you're left with that. And it's up to you to sort of take it somewhere. You know, that's a commercially savvy move, though, to have the Christmas song, because, of course, every stations that every December are all Christmas and looking for CanCon and there's Ron Sexman.

It's an evergreen in a way, you know, I mean, it's true. And every year it gets covered by about a hundred people. And that was not my motivation for writing it. I just, I wrote it. I think the lyrics, a lot of people really relate to them because it's about the family stuff at Christmas. A lot of people have family issues and forgiveness and stuff like that. I'm giving the last question here to Jason Duggan. He says, Ron, how can we get more people into Warren Zevon?

Oh, I try. I really do. I'm relatively new to Warren. I didn't really get into his stuff until after he had died. I became obsessed with him. And I something about his lyrics and his delivery that makes me feel heroic. You know, it's like this pirate or something, the way he sings and his sense of humor. It's just really, you know, and I think there's, he certainly has a lot of fans, but, you know, his music is coming from such a strange angle that it's, it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea.

Some people can't get with his voice, which I love his voice. I love his voice too. You know, but I just think, and I've read a few biographies about him. I just, you know, I tell everybody, me, you know, you got to hear Warren Zevon because he says stuff that nobody else will in a song. Like, you know, he just has a way with words and yeah, but, but he just, like I said, he just makes me feel heroic and not a lot of people do that.

And he gave us some great advice on his last, his last David Letterman appearance when he told us something i'll never forget uh enjoy every sandwich yeah i mean it's true uh there's a guy that had a phobia of doctors and didn't go to see one of her 30 years which turned out to be his downfall you know but even in death though he kept his sense of humor. I mean, the second last LB made was called My Rides Here, which I thought was just brilliant, you know, the gallows humor or something. And a little, obviously he's American, but kind of an honorary Canadian in the sense that one of his most popular songs is a hockey song. I love that song, yeah.

Yeah, hit somebody. And it's got, that's David Letterman yelling, hit somebody. That's a lot. Paul Schaefer's on, on Oregon too, from Timmins or wherever he's from, you know, but I just love the first line. He was born in big beaver on the,

like it's just, it's crazy. And he, I was amazed that, I mean, I know he co-wrote, he co-wrote that song with an author, but,

but I, the, the understanding of the game of hockey is pretty spot on absolutely and your your debut here ron on toronto mic was spot on i thoroughly thoroughly enjoyed this and i hope we get to uh to do this again sometime oh thanks for having me i was i was jealous when i saw kevin hearn on there i thought i gotta do toronto my show and um i'm sorry for all the technical difficulties. I don't know if that's my internet or what.

It is your internet, but don't worry about it because I won't edit a stitch and nobody will be the wiser. I think it all worked out, my friend. And the Kevin Hearn, if I can just talk about that really quickly to say we actually did two parts because one part is kind of like the Kevin Hearn history from

Look People to Barenaked Ladies. And then the second part is all about the secret path and the final months working with Gore Downey. And honestly, that part too, just brace yourself. It's something else. All right. But thank you so much. Again, maybe at some point i'll hit you up and say

hey ron it's time to kick out the jams on toronto mic uh so any any time i'd love to so thanks for having me and take care of yourself and stay safe and that brings us to the end of our 914th show you can follow me on twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Ron, you got to follow this guy on Twitter. The dad jokes, the puns, just a breath of fresh air

and a trying time. It's at Ron Sexsmith. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. Chef Drop is at Get Chef Drop. McKay's CEO Forums are at McKay's CEO Forums. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Palma pasta is at Palma pasta.

Sticker you is that sticker you Ridley funeral home. They're at Ridley FH and Mike Majeski. He's not on Twitter. He's on Instagram at Majeski group homes. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RomePhone.ca to get started.