Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ron vs. Don: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1731

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

In this 1731st episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with standup comedian and author John Wing about the ongoing saga of Ron MacLean vs. Don Cherry. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, the Waterfront BIA, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

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A podcast and book from Nick Aienes, sponsored by Fusion Corp Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Today, returning to Toronto Mike to discuss Ron versus Don, it's John Wing. Welcome back, John. Thank you. Thank you, Mike. Always pleased to discuss names that rhyme with my own. John, Don, Ron, amazing. Now, where do we find you today, John Wing? I am just a few feet from my own podcast studio in the dining room of my home. All right. In California.

California. Have you considered my suggestion that you pack up and come back home? Ah, yes. Well, we have been considering it. We recently, we're attempting to fireproof the house this summer. My wife is doing, I'm watching my wife do all the work really. We took out the gate and the wooden fence and the wooden enclosure that keeps the dogs from leaving the house and turned it all into wire. So if fire happens to come, it will melt the wire but probably won't burn the house down.

We have not decided to come back yet. It's actually really expensive to move. No, I hear you. I hear you. And we like where we live. We like exactly where we live. Our house, our little enclave in near Los Angeles. Yeah, so easy for me to say, but there's a more than meets the eye with these decisions. Yes, exactly.

So thank you for being here. I know it's early in California, but this is important. Okay. And it's time sensitive. Yes, it's important. I need to discuss this Ron versus Don, this ongoing saga. And I thought maybe we'd break it down. I pulled a bunch of clips. I think I have the right person for the job. That's you, John. You're most kind thank you. And we're gonna start sort of talking generally about what was Coach's Corner. I guess we're speaking to the kids with this one but what did Coach's Corner mean to you John as a hockey fan? Well initially it was a reason not to go to the bathroom

during the intermission. Because I think that's what they wanted. They wanted a reason for you to stay watching during, now I'm having a hard time remembering, I believe it was first intermission. Was Coach's Corner. Yes, it was. Yes. Okay. So first intermission was Coach's Corner. And you had, initially you had a guy

Don Cherry who really When he was talking about hockey Man, there were very few People who knew more about hockey So and they had a good Sort of report, but although it was always odd in that Ron would ask him a question and then shut right up and look down. He always looked down when Don talked and then he would come back for the next question,

rarely commenting or correcting. If he corrected, it would be if Don got a name wrong or something like that. It was a factual sort of name pronunciation or correction type thing. But they would just talk about what happened in the period. And then at the end of the sessions, it became Don would have a beef about something that was going on in hockey, and Ron would lead him into that for a minute or whatever it was, and Don would give out his beef. Here's what I think, this is that, the other thing.

And it became a very familiar thing with Canadian viewers in that you look forward to it. You look forward to what was Don going to say, am I going to agree with Don, am I going to not agree with Don, you know. So I think people who both liked Don and disliked Don watched in equal measure. And that is gold, right? For a TV, for the ratings. Jon, without a doubt, the question I would ask would be, are you entertained? Were you not entertained by the coaches corner?

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, I'm, I'll say this, uh, many years, uh, away from it now, I'm more entertained now by what they're doing now, which is the three guys or the, the, the, the two guys and the girl, pardon me, the two men and the girl, pardon me, the two men and the woman, it's usually three men or two men and a woman,

and they're all hockey players, and they all know their stuff. And I really like that because it gives you a, I don't wanna use the word diversification, but it is. It's three different views usually of what's going on in the game, three different ideas of what's happening in the game. And Don, after a while, tended to stay with, let's say, two or three,

three or four basic themes, right? Uh, he liked tough guys. He didn't like guys who didn't muck it up in corners. He liked, uh, he liked certain players regardless of what they did. Um, uh, he, and he loved to, he loved to point out a thing where there was a fight and here's why there was a fight and here's my take on what he did and why it shouldn't have been this or that or the other, shouldn't have been a suspension or it should have been a suspension, et cetera, et cetera. So Don liked to tackle, right?

So the first segment was the game and the second segment would be the controversial thing. So I'm sorry am I talking too much? No this is what you're here for. So I have a clip lest we forget John and you have a couple of years on me. Little Kipling there I love it. You have a couple of years on me so this may resonate more with you than it did with me because I don't actually remember this era. But of course, Coach's Corner was originally Don Cherry and Dave Hodge. Do you remember the Don Cherry, Dave Hodge iteration of Coach's Corner?

I do. So, I do. Just again, a lot of, you know, you mentioned earlier how, you know, Don would make his, I don't know, controversial statement or his take on something and then Ron would look like he's kind of looking down and then he'd ask the next question. I think these clips I think it'll be interesting to have you listen to these clips with me that I pulled and then react to these clips because you don't know what I'm going to play. But it's kind of a I think we're going to build quite

a story here. The ongoing saga of Ron versus Don. But I'm actually going to set things up by playing a clip of Dave Hodge. So this clip was Dave Hodge. He was doing a live reporters recording that is actually exclusively available in the Toronto Mike feed. So if you want to hear this entire reporters recording and it includes special guests Brendan Shanahan. You can find it in the Toronto mic feed But this here John is Dave Hodge talking about working with Don Cherry on coaches corner

Back in the early days Don would call me on Friday night and would tell me everything that you know He wanted to talk about and I would say no no no maybe and here's what we are going to talk about but one particular conversation we had was Don saying what's that game the other night boy and that that Patti Roy that Patti Roy we make it say is I got to talk about Patti Roy You can see why I made a mistake. And I said, Don, if you want to talk about that goaltender, we will talk about Patrick Waa. And Don said, I can call him Patti Roy.

If I want to call him Patti Roy, I can call him Patti Roy. I said, by doing so, Don, you're insulting the man, you're insulting his family, his friends and the entire French speaking population of this country largely based in Quebec. If you mention the name Patti Roy on TV, you will be corrected and hear the same speech. So we talked about something else. So there you go. What did you think of that clip? That's pretty fantastic.

Dave Hodge talking about working with Don Cherry. Great impression of Don. I worked with Don at a dinner years ago, and it is a great impression. dinner years ago. And it is a great impression. Well, that was also, I mean, it shows you that right from the beginning, there was a danger with Don Jerry, there was a danger on the air. on the air. He probably would be okay. He was very good, but he would, if he decided this was the way to pronounce a guy's name, that's the way he'd pronounce a guy's name, you know? And Dave was pretty smart in the sense that we talked about something else.

And he also told Don, I'll correct you on the air, and I don't think Don would have liked that. But that might have been what made it compelling television as well, the danger. You know, one of the things I always liked about Don Cherry, I got to say this, I particularly like anyone who really, really cares about how they dress. I really do. about how they dress. I really do. And that I liked about Don. Man, did he look good on TV. Everything was just so the way he dressed.

Watching the clips of the interviews, I noted that as he nears his, as he in his 90s now, perhaps that's not such a big deal, which is fine. I'm the same way. And I'm only in my 60s. But, but I really liked that he cared a lot about how he looked on TV, even if it was a little over the top sometimes, I liked that he made the effort. Well, his theme song on the The Great Vine Show was Sharp Dressed Man by ZZ Top.

Oh, yeah, well, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Sharp Dressed Man always. Now, he has the opposite of what I have. That man had style, okay, Don Cherry. He did, he did have style That man had style, okay, Don Cherry. I have- He did, he did have style. Absolutely, he did, yes. So I think, and as we build this,

I think this building blocks are key. Like we now have what Dave Hodge, how he was basically from the get-go, not gonna tolerate the Don Cherry schtick of Patti Roy, for example. And the seemingly intentional butchering of these names that were either either European or French Canadian and he wasn't you know and and and Dave wasn't going to tolerate but speaking of Dave so as we set the table here Ron and Dawn on Coach's

Corner which is what we're breaking down today, the spark that lit this fire was the pen flip. By any chance, John Wing, were you watching Hockey Night in Canada when Dave Hodge flipped his pen? No, I don't remember that. I'm sorry. That's OK. So I'm going to direct you and the listenership to episode 960 of Toronto Mike, which is a micumentary That's all about the pen flip this happened and just to bring you up to speed this happened on March 14th 1987

Dave Hodge was upset because the CBC cut away from a game that was tied. It was Montreal versus Philadelphia, but CBC CBC, this was not the game of the night. They went to other coverage after the game ended. And this game was going to overtime. And CBC decided, we're going to go cover the news. That's what we do now. And they cut away from the game. And Dave Hodge was so principled, always a very ethical man. I know Dave Hodge very well. Every year he comes on and shares his 100 favorite songs of the year. Dave Hodge and I are good friends.

But this action by CBC upset Dave Hodge to a point where he kind of, in an act of defiance, he flipped his pen and said, that's just the way we do things around here. And he kind of stormed off. Now, before I play this next clip, I can tell you, you know, Ron McLean was there. He was not yet hosting coaches corner, but he was part of the hockey night in Canada crew. And he told me when he visited, because Ron McLean was here for episode 165, he told me that, uh, and to let people know that episode was from March 2016, but he told me that and to let people know that episode was from March 2016 but he told me this story here about what happened next and I'm gonna play another little clip about how Ron and Don sort of the origin story this is Ron

McLean on Toronto Mike. I just was standing right outside the door where he delivered that little monologue and then he comes roaring into the room where I am and he grabs his coat off the, you know, I'm sick of these guys making me look like an idiot. And then somebody grabbed him, I forget who, and says, Dave, it's okay, we'll go back to the Harbour Castle Hotel, which was a Hilton in those days, a Weston now. And we went, and I'll never forget this, Harry Neal and I drove in one car and Dave Hodge went down in another and there was probably about five or six of us at the little bar at the Harbour Castle.

And Harry Neal at one point turned to me while we were having our beer and he said, Ron, you should work on your relationship with Don Sherry. He says, that I think is going to be your ticket. Wow. So, John, there you go. Harry Neal, still with us by the way, puts this, basically gives this advice to Ron McLean that his future may be closely aligned with his relationship of Don Cherry because it was clear Dave Hodge was on his way out and he was. He never hosted

another hockey night in Canada after that. After the pen flip? Right. That was it. Wow. Wow. You got to listen to this micumentary on the pen flip. It is quite, you know, many people who were there gave me their perspectives, including Dave Hodge. And it's so this moment of defiance where he flips the pen, he never worked for CBC again. He went, I think he worked for global after that, or he covered Minnesota North Stars games, but he, uh, he was done with CBC.

Wow. And yet, and yet, uh, Jose Bautista, the bat flip, he stayed with the J's. That is so weird. You know, it's funny. Cause I said this joke, I told Ron when he was in the basement, I said, I bought a t-shirt cause I did. I bought a t-shirt with the bat flip on it. I love the bat flip so much. I would love to be able to buy a t-shirt with the pen flip. Pen flip the pen flip t-shirt with the bat flip on it. I love the bat flip so much. I would love to be able to buy a t-shirt with the pen flip.

The pen flip, the pen flip t-shirt. You know, you could probably have one, have a series of them made and sell them as Toronto Mike merch. I'll talk to Dave. We'll do it as a partnership maybe. Yeah, well, you know, I did not there was something I thought of it when I was taking it. Talking, looking at what you sent me and everything and researching it a little bit. Yeah. This is showbiz. And in showbiz, I've done this, you have to look around you and see who do I need to be friends with?

Who do I need to be close to when the thing happens? Because you don't even know what the thing's going to be. But when it happens, you gotta be, okay, I'm next to this guy. I've decided to pick this guy to be next to when this thing happens, right? And that's a huge thing in show business. And that's what they're in.

Don Cherry was in the hockey business, but later he was in, the majority of his actual career considering he's lived so long, has been in showbiz. And Ron McClain, that was excellent advice given by Harry Neil. Harry, beautiful. I can't think, Dave Hempstead does the best. Bob Cole with Harry Neil does the best impression of that. But for my money, John, that's still my favorite tandem. If I'm watching a big, even that game seven against the Florida Panthers where we laid an egg, of course, but as as usual, but if I could just have Harry Neal and Bob Cole call that game, that's all I want. Yeah. Yeah. And I like the current announcers,

although I'll be listening to the Vegas announcers next season. Oh, for Marner, you big Marner guys? Yes. Yes, for the number one scorer that they traded away figuring, oh, Nylander will pick up the slack. Anyway, so. So, yeah. So let me play another clip and then you got to know where you got to know where you are and Ron McClain, this is a this factors in to what's going on even now. Right.

Ron McClain has to knows where he is, right? You know, you know. Where are you in the hierarchy? Who do you need to be next to, et cetera? I'm glad you brought that up, because I'm going to just play another little clip, a very short clip of Ron McLean telling me basically what he's learned from his many years co-hosting Coach's Corner with Don Cherry. And then I think I'll speak later to that dynamic and how Ron behaves

with dawn at his side and then what it means today but let's just hear a little bit of Ron McLean just about 35 seconds Ron talking about what dawn taught him he taught me Mike the pro game I had the sort of Pollyanna version of sport that we all have if you've never played in the NHL and have it as your livelihood, we sort of see the team concept and the rah-rah. You can have that rah-rah with World Juniors and you can have that with collegians and you can have it with junior teams and even in the National Olympic team you can get away with it. But it's not the truth of the NHL.

The truth of the business is it's so cutthroat. The Black Ace absolutely hates everybody because he's not playing. It's a really, really difficult goal and Don taught me that. Without him I wouldn't have had the sense of it. Interesting, right, John? He's saying that the NHL is cutthroat? Yeah, well, yeah, there's parts of the game are cutthroat. He was basically giving him advice that, you know, cause, cause, you know, although he referees games, Ron McLean didn't play at a particularly high level of hockey. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Well it is. And you know what, Ron? Show business also relatively cutthroat. You don't linger over a dead comrade. You step up smartly and say, I guess you'll be needing someone to replace him

on the gigs he had booked before he died. Yeah, you bet it's cutthroat, you bet. And that's a good thing to learn. I mean, hey, there's no doubt Ron McClain learned a lot from Don Cherry and Harry Neal. And when you referenced earlier, John, you referenced that, you know, you'd watch the coach's corner, and then Don might say something, you know, mildly or not so mildly, ethnocentric, or maybe something against Russians or Swedes or French Canadians, who knows what? And then you'd see Ron McLean kind of looking down.

And I just think these are two clips. I'm gonna start play one and then get your reaction to it and then play the other. But I was basically curious about the role of ethics. Like when Ron McLean is beside Don Cherry and Don says something, cause Ron's a very progressive person where Don is more conservative.

But I was curious about that dynamic. We'll talk about it more on the other side. But here's the first minute clip. How often do you have to bite your lips sometimes when Don goes off the rails, if you will? I mean, not really. One time recently was when he said we shouldn't have female reporters in the dressing room.

And again, I can understand what he's saying about how certain guys in a, you know, super charged post game, uh, you're, you're going to have an ethical breakdown sooner or later, uh, with that dynamic. So it's not wrong to sort of talk it through, you know, but I certainly could, it really ticked me off that there was no time to sort of counter that

argument with, uh, the reason why a woman in the dressing room is so vital is that for as long as time you know we got into some of the trouble we got into in sport it was because we had a white male sort of singular point of view representing the reporting industry. We didn't have anybody with a with another sort of idea of how to say things or shape things. So we needed, that was obviously, you know, it's the same with ethnicity and gender, all these areas that we've opened up our world, thank God, you know, that you just need it. Otherwise, you have a very small prism through which to see things. Jared What do you think of that, John Wing?

John Well, he's absolutely right. But again, Don, see, Don is talking about it from a much different perspective. Don is talking about it from the perspective of a player who is naked. That's what Don's talking about more than anything else. That's what he's talking about. And at that time Don can't see it any other way Nine I'm not defending defending the position. I'm saying he can't see it. So You know Ron is right that you should say something I don't know did he say something

Did he say he said something? He says he wished he had more time to say. Oh, he wished, yeah. Yeah. Something. But Don's wrong, but I understand where the idea comes from. First of all, it's new. And hockey has always been a thing that is as as McLean says,

and as a as a white guy talking to another white guy, let me say. But when it's always been a particular way, and you put something new in the mix, there are people who are going to absolutely reject that out of hand. And Don's one of those guys. And maybe over time you can show him how accommodating that, and it isn't a difficult accommodation for guys in the dressing room to to to, you know, but once the first initially he only sees it one way and and he's really not capable of seeing it any other way initially, maybe later. Did you think in all, in all your years watching coaches corner,

did you feel that Ron McLean was capable of countering Don Sherry when he said some things that today we would say maybe it's not particularly politically correct, or maybe they're kind of dinosaur viewpoints. Uh, is Ron up to the task to challenge Don when Don speaks out of line in that manner? Well, did he ever? Well, this is the thing. I feel like here's my thoughts again, just my personal feelings having had the conversation

with Ron McClain and had many conversations with Dave Hodge. Dave Hodge simply wouldn't stand for it. Dave Hodge, his, and these are both, I believe these both of these men to be ethical people, uh, smart, ethical people. And I respect both. Dave Hodge wouldn't tolerate it and it would kind of neutered on and perhaps it would be a less entertaining coach's corner even dare I say. Whereas Ron, I think Ron knew his role in here. You alluded to this earlier and I think after this next clip we should elaborate on this,

but Ron knew his role in coaches corner. And I think he knew that nobody was there to hear him. Yeah, okay. That's possible. And also Don was the star of coaches corner. Don was the coach. So, and, and if Ron said something that put Don off, other than a, other than a small, very small correction. And I've, I saw him small, small correct him a bunch of times. And Ron would say, Oh yeah, that's right. And Ron would say, oh yeah, that's right. Or Don would say, oh yeah, right, right. I, I, yeah, you got, that's right.

Um, but, uh, cause Don would get off on a rant and, and, and Ron would occasionally have to rain him, you know, whole random a little bit, just a little, but he also knew if he, if you directly disagreed, um, that was not the point. And it would make him look, see, this is, this is the, I think this is the key to this. It would make Ron look bad on the air rather than Don. If you embarrass Don, they're gonna hate you, not Don. So I hate to say it,

but I believe the attitude he took was a self-serving one. Not that people don't, not that I don't, everyone does, but I believe that's why he did it. Better TV and he would look better. Well, this is gonna be the come up again when we get to Poppygate, which is coming very, very soon here. But I think, like, as we sort of look at this dynamic

between Ron McLean and Don Cherry, and the ethics involved of it all, it was very interesting to me when I was sitting down here in the TMDS basement of Ron McLean, to dive into, you know, the ethics of it all. So this is a longer clip, so I'm gonna enjoy some coffee while I play this one, but I think, John, you're gonna enjoy this,

and on the other side, we're gonna talk about this this and I'm going to even tie it to the second season of the rehearsal. And we'll find out on the other side. If you watched it, here we go. Rob J on Twitter is asking, have you ever regretted not pushing back harder on Cherry after one of his more obviously offensive views? Well, I just, I just explained the one about female reporters in the dressing room and I'll give you an example. Sorry, what was the name of the? Rob J. Rob, you know, I'll give you an example of where I try to be this ethical canary and I have walked into so many silly situations. One of the good ones was Chris Simon, who is a First Nations Ojibwe from Wawa, Ontario.

Chris had received a 30-game suspension for cross-checking Ryan Holwick of the New York Rangers. Sat out the 30 games, came back and in his second game upon his return, he stomped on Yarko Ruto of the Pittsburgh Penguins and got a 25 game suspension. So Grape's on the coaches corner says, you know, I'm not saying he should have done it. Of course he shouldn't have done it. But I will say neither guy missed a shift in 55 games. That seems a bit much to me. And I said, Don, one of the things that I've noticed about this whole conversation is people ask how could a player get 30 games, then come back and commit another crime worth 25 games?

So, it really brings into question the validity of supplementary discipline and whether or not our approach is working. And I said, but one of the thoughts I have is Chris's First Nations Ojibwe, a lot of kids in Canada growing up in First Nations communities don't feel like they get a fair shake. Maybe Chris just didn't abide the initial suspension and didn't believe it was legitimate in the first place. And Don turned to me and he says, what are you saying? Cause he's an Indian, he's got an inferiority complex. And I was like, Oh my God, what have I started? You know, like, and, and so, no, I, I, of course I started, you know? And so, no, I, of course I regret, pushback is a really complicated thing because I don't have all the answers. God knows I study it endlessly. I read Montaigne and I read Cervantes

and Shakespeare and Harold Bloom and I read Joseph Heller and I read Bill Moyers and Margaret Somerville and lots of John Ralston Saul. I spend my whole life has been reading about ethics to try and understand Dershowitz, to try and understand how we get rights from wrongs. There's not much opportunity to use this knowledge, but it's forever in the back of my mind in every interview I do. And what really I sort of my mind in every interview I do. And what really I sort of have gleaned from my quest for wisdom is wisdom is knowing what to overlook, not to correct, not to shape. It's knowing what to overlook. So I will provide the vehicle for you to be your best.

And then I will hopefully know to overlook it if it's not what's right. How do you, uh, how do you feel about those comments about ethics from Ron McLean? He's right. He's right in the sense that I will take it from a comedian standpoint. When to engage with a heckler, I would say 80% of the time, you should ignore what people say to you because there are a million factors. There are times when you can't, that's 10% and there's another 10% when it's okay if you engage.

But most of the time, all it's going to do is screw you up. And again, I think he's right, but he's right because it's television. That's why he's right. He's not right morally, in my opinion. This is just my opinion, by the way. Don't write in. Okay, write in, but it's just my opinion. He's right because it's TV, because you're putting out a product. And if you start, And if you start, like, and Hodge is, I'd say Hodge is better because Hodge doesn't let anything go.

And McLean lets almost everything go. How, they're two different guys though. Dave Hodge, I don't think, you interviewed him, I'm gonna guess. When he lost his job at CBC, he went on to something else and he didn't regret doing what he did. He didn't regret doing what lost him the job because it was the right thing for him to do.

But Ron McClain is a different cat. And he, you know, again, this leads into my initial take on the whole thing now, but he's right because it's TV. Yes, you should overlook certain things. And it's his own damn fault for bringing up the ethnicity of the hockey player who was suspended. You, you do that and you know, Cherry's going to say something. You know it. Uh, why, why would you bring that up? You know? Yeah.

It's, um, it's like in poker, when you lose a hand, and you go back through the hand, through the moves of the hand, to try and see where you made your mistake, and you discover that your mistake was looking at the two cards you were dealt and thinking, I'll play these. That was your mistake, right? It's that. The initial mistake is to bring it up in the first place because Don is a loose cannon. You can't do that.

So anyway, again, come on. I jotted down a quote from you there, John Wing. You said to me moments ago, McLean lets almost everything go, was your quote. And I think that's a good setup for what happened in November, 2019. So that's just to give that some context. That's pre-pandemic, John Wing, okay?

God, we were so young. The Raptors were NBA champions. We didn't know what COVID-19 was. We didn't have giant boxes of perishable foods packed under beds in our home in case of the next one. We didn't. You weren't hoarding toilet paper back then, right? I bought a car two weeks before the lockdown, and I didn't fill the gas tank of that car up a second time until May. Wow.

So I bought the car at the end of February and I filled the gas tank in May. That's how that's locked down. Even before you bought that car, November, 2019. That's almost six years ago It's hard to believe so Don Cherry who was 85 years old by the way He made well, this is the quote, but I'm gonna play the longer segment I feel too many people focus on this particular quote and then lose a bit of the context I think it's fair to be fair to Don Cherry who I once had a lovely phone call with by the way, but think it's fair to be fair to Don Cherry, who I once had a lovely phone call with, by the way, but to be fair to Don, I'm going to play a longer like 90 second version. But

he said, you people come here, whatever it is, you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey, at least you could pay a couple of bucks for a poppy. That is the quote that we'll discuss on the other side. But here is the longer segment from Coach's Corner in November 2019. You know, I was talking to a veteran. I said, I'm not going to run the poppy thing anymore because what's the sense? I live in Mississauga. Nobody wears a very few people wear a poppy. Downtown Toronto, forget it, downtown Toronto, nobody wears a poppy. And I'm not going to wait. He says, wait a minute, how about running it for the people that buy them?

Now you go to the small cities and you know, those the rows on rows, you people loved, you they come here, whatever it is, you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey, at least you can pay a couple of bucks for poppies or something like that. These guys pay for your way of life that you enjoy in Canada. These guys paid the biggest price.

Anyhow, I'm going to run it again for you great people and good Canadians that bought a poppy. I'm still going to run it. Anyhow. Love you, Ford. Here we are November 11th. We're in Trilinqu, British cemetery in France. On November 11th I want everybody to remember when you're buying a poppy and you see row after row of our Canadian

dead here. And I'm going to put here who visited Thomas William Mackenzie Military Medal and Bar Canadian Field Artillery. He died seven days before the end of the war, 27 years old. So when you're walking by and you see our great legions, guys standing there and they offer you a poppy, think of all this. These guys gave their lives. At least you can buy a poppy. And that's the final segment of Coach's Corner that Don Cherry ever appeared on. What were your thoughts in 2019 regarding Poppy Gate, John Wayne? Well, initially, I didn't think that it was...

I didn't think they'd fire him initially. And I believe they fired him because they knew there was going to be more of that. They knew they could no longer. The world had changed and empathy had changed. It had all changed. And they knew if they didn't fire him, there would be worse to come. That's my belief. You know, what he was doing was honorable, but it's almost like, I'm going to try and make a comparison here, it could be very bad, but it's almost like, I believe this and if you don't believe it, I can't respect you. And it was that attitude that bugged me. And yeah, you people. Downtown Toronto, and downtown

Toronto was essentially a code phrase for ethnicity, for immigrants, for, I mean, you go back to 82 and Phil McKellar, all that stuff, right? So, yeah, I thought he should have been fired. I thought they did a gutsy thing in firing them. But I think they did it because they knew that if they didn't, how were they going to fire them the next time? Because there was going to be a next time for this guy, right? Don Cherry is out there. He's out there. At 85, he had views that you wouldn't be able to change. So hey, we all have our bigoted attitudes, all of us.

I do. You do. You, especially. But, but I mean, my father, who was the most progressive guy I ever met, didn't think gay people should be allowed to be married. And that that blew my mind. It was in his eighties when he told me that. But I just thought, how can you, what the, you know, how can you not, how can you be there? How can you get to this place? But you get to a spot with your attitude, with the traditions of your life, and you can't move forward from it. You can't move off it. And that's what Don was. And they had to let him go. They didn't have a choice. I don't think.

Do you think it was a bit of the straw breaking the camel's back that this was just one of me? But this well, you know, maybe but I think more more that if they didn't, what what a what was going to come next? What was he going to do? You know what I mean? Because they knew every time he went on the air, something like that could happen. They literally knew that. And they also knew, if they don't fire him over this, how are they going to fire him over the next thing? Right?

It's a containment strategy to my mind. It's worth mentioning John that at this point Rogers is the broadcaster of Hockey Night in Canada and Don Cherry is a Rogers employee as opposed to the many decades where he was working for the CBC and CBC had Hockey Night in Canada. So I always wondered what role that plays because the Rogers is, uh, very risk adverse. Oh, sure. And Don Cherry is very risky. Yeah. Uh, more of a corporate, uh, more of a corporate culture. CBC is more of, um, if you're in, you're there for life place, Wayne and Schuster, uh,

Don Messer's Jubilee, et cetera. Um, Tommy Hunter, Tommy Hunter. We were just going to go with Tommy. Um, uh, so, uh, not that, you know, any of those guys needed to be fired, but CBC, you know, you've got a place here. You're here till you're here till you, till you decide you want to stop Rogers is corporate culture, not, uh, not a national broadcaster culture.

Right. Totally different. And they're trying to sell cable packages and, uh, and phone service and internet and all that stuff. You bet. You bet. They have a different core business here. and uh... and foreign service on the internet and all that stuff you bet you're right that they have a different core business here so uh... did you i'm just curious did you ever see a show on hb o called the rehearsal okay i'm sorry

no it was that that that last night before we haha no i just wondered if you'd seen it because uh... fellow knuck fellow can fellow Canadian funny guy, Nate Fielder is his name. Nathan Fielder is the guy behind the rehearsal and season two was about aviation and particularly

it was a fast, by the way, I highly recommend you watch at least season two of the rehearsal. It's a fascinating look into accidents, aviation accidents, and this commonality that Nathan Fielder has discovered by going through the logs, etc. That this dynamic between the co-pilot and the pilot, where the co-pilot is hesitant to correct the pilot, and often if the pilot is doing something the copilot may think is a Poor decision or not whatever the copilot doesn't speak up because they're intimidated by The power dynamic and the power yielded by the actual pilot like there's many examples that Nathan Fielder kind of brings to the table And then he believes better communication and open communication where a copilot feels freedom to challenge a pilot would reduce the number of aviation accidents.

So that's basically the premise. Although I don't spoil it but you got to see the rehearsals. It's on Crave here in Canada and America I guess that'd be HBO. Okay so I always wonder Ron McClain knows this is the this is the Don Cherry show. People are tuning in for Don Cherry's takes because they are entertaining even if they aren't necessarily politically correct all the time. And I wonder if Ron McClain is like in that example he lets that you people come here that commentary he lets it go no challenge doesn't speak up kind of throws to the the clip of Don Cherry in 2011. And it's a very touching, moving clip. It is. It is. That's why I want to play the entire thing. I just wanted to give people

that context that Don... If Ron says something, not to... Sorry to interrupt. No, go ahead, please. If Ron says something, how does he throw it to the clip? Right? Right. And he's got, as Ron explained, he has like a producer in his ear. Where Don refused. That's an interesting dynamic too. Don's rule for all his years doing Coach's Corner was nothing. He didn't want any communication in his ear. So only Ron can communicate to Don during a Coach's Corner where Ron has the producer in his ear during the entire segment. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. The whole thing is interesting, which is why we're doing this episode,

because we're about to get to what's new because this is 2019 still. But has your have your feelings on the that poppy rant, if you will, that Don Cherry did in November 2019. Have your feelings changed since then to now when you listen back to that? Like, I'm wondering. No, no, the rant, what he said doesn't belong on the hockey broadcast. That's, that's part of it too. It doesn't belong, you know,

even if it's remembrance day. And I mean, the idea, the remembrance day falling on a Saturday or it was, it wasn't remembrance day falling on a Saturday, or it wasn't Remembrance Day falling on a Saturday, it was the week of Remembrance Day, right? Right. It's usually a Wednesday, right? So- Well, it's always November 11,

so this would be the Saturday before that. Okay, well, okay, if you wanna honor the troops, that's great, but you spoil it by bitching about the people you don't like who refuse to buy poppies this time of year. I mean, maybe they don't have two bucks or maybe they need those two bucks. I mean, there's a million reasons. He shouldn't have done it. He shouldn't have done it. I've heard apologists. Yeah, sorry for interrupting my turn interrupt but uh I've heard apologists refer to this

this phrase that Don Cherry uses often you people like this is this is a phrase he uses in his uh regular speech you can find super cuts of cuts on YouTube of Don Cherry saying, you people, you people, because when you hear you people out of context like that, it really does sound like you people is people of color. That's how a lot of people hear it, right? Yeah. But I think, see, I think the key is not you people.

I think the key is downtown Toronto. That's what I think. That's why you, yes, he uses you people in another contact. And nowadays we don't, now if six years later, you just, if that phrase happens to occur to you, you better be able to put a wall up so it doesn't get through. But yeah, sure, we've all used the phrase, but beforehand he said downtown Toronto. And downtown Toronto means a very specific thing. If he'd only said you people without downtown Toronto,

maybe you could make that argument, but I don't think he can. downtown Toronto, maybe you could make that argument, but I don't think you can. Are you familiar with the sports writer, Gare Joyce? Yes, we are acquaintances, perhaps even friends. Yes, I'm friends with Gare. It's funny, they used to say, I'm a friend of Dorothy. I'm a friend of Gare. I too. It's funny, you know, and they used to say, I'm a friend of Dorothy. It's like, I'm a friend of Gare. I too. I too, I call him station.

I, I too, am a friend of Gare Joyce. He's been on the show many times. I respect him. I like him. You know, I have let him do his stand up at a Toronto Mike listener experience at Great Lakes Brewery. That's happened. Well, Gere Joyce, who I do, by the way, we might do a sequel up to this with Gere Joyce, but there's a, we're waiting for another piece to be published because Gere Joyce moved to, during the pandemic, he moved to Kingston. He was a Toronto guy. He moved to Kingston,

not Kingston, Jamaica. He moved to Kingston, Ontario, home of Don Cherry. And he works, he writes for the Kingston Wig Standard. That name just makes me feel like we're in the 1800s, that name. I believe they started that paper in 1834. So John, you were just a kid back then. I was, I was. It was, I later worked for the Woodstock Sentinel Review.

Okay, that's another, anytime you see the word wig and it's W-H-I-G, you know you're going back to this. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Oh absolutely, I agree. So Gare, Gare was doing a... I guess there was a... on Wolf Island, shout out to the Bourbon Tabernacle Choir, but that's an inside joke for the hardcore listeners, okay John? But the Wolf Island, I guess Don Cherry had a cottage there and then he sold it and he was,

I guess Gear Joyce was doing a story and he called up Ron McClain to talk to him about this cottage. And the conversation evolved very quickly where Ron McClain and Gear Joyce talked about that Poppy Gate, I'll call it, from 2019. This is now six years ago, hard to believe, but it's back in the news. So the quote, and again, I don't have audio of this, but Gare Joyce wrote about this and

there's a bigger piece coming, so stay tuned for that. But Gare Joyce quotes Ron McLean as saying that it was a an Exit strategy. That's a direct quote from Ron McLean because Ron McLean disclosed to Gare that there was a health scare for Don Cherry in 2019 he had pneumonia and Basically he according to McLean said that Gary Bettman told him that Don Cherry had actually been hospitalized. This is an 85 year old man traveling, but he got pneumonia and apparently it was really bad. Ron McClain went into some detail. Another quote is that Ron McClain had to park him on a bench and get his luggage. So Ron McClain was really helping Don Cherry, but this major health scare, according to Ron McClain had Don helping Don Cherry, but this major health scare, according to Ron

McClain, had Don Cherry looking for an exit strategy and that Poppy Gate was his exit strategy. I mean, God, there's a lot here to digest, but what are your initial thoughts on this? I know you've read the story that Gare Joy published. Well my initial impression was Ron could have been attempting to sort of give Don an out. I think, you know, Don isn't trying to say Don isn't a bigot. He knew the next controversial thing he said would cause a firestorm. And so he said something knowing because he did not want to leave. He did not want to quit. So I thought initially he was trying to sort of make Don look better, maybe, change how

it looked, change the perspective. That's what I thought initially. But then I thought more about it and I got some perspective from a couple of people. And one of the things that somebody said was, say what you want about Don Cherry. He tells you what he thinks, quite honestly. And if he wanted to leave, he wouldn't have done it in such a roundabout way. And frankly, is Don Cherry, I mean, he's honest in a guileless kind of way. Is he sharp enough? And I use the word sharp in a different way, not as intelligent, but is he sharp practice enough to actually conceive that kind of a

scenario? I don't believe he is. And the other thing is, do I believe he really wanted to leave coaches corner? I do not. If he really wanted to leave, he would have said so because that's who he is. He would have said it now. So then it becomes to me, why? Why? I mean, what Ron did that was bad was reveal private health information. That's what he did.

That was the mistake he made, really. And he may believe that that was Don's intent. He might believe it. In fact, he probably does. I don't get the impression Ron's dishonest. But he got a lot of crap when Don got fired and he didn't stab himself in the heart too, right? Well, we should probably speak a bit to this, which is that definitely it seems like people took sides on this one in this country and many a Don Cherry loyalist started to despise Ron McLean and felt like, yeah, like he had thrown this quote I've heard from people who love Don Cherry and feel he was done dirty,

that Ron threw him under the bus. But, but that, that simply isn't the case. To me anyway, in the sense that I don't think Ron said a thing. Don got fired and they kept Ron. Ron didn't want to get fired. By the way, you guys in Canada, you're so lucky. You're so lucky. Look at the big issue we're talking about.

Look at the issue that you lucky bastards are so worried about this week. Oh my God. it's terrible. Don Cherry got done dirty by Rogers, my God. Yes, oh, it's awful. Pardon me while I hoard some more perishables. It's too perspective is everything, you're right. And it's worth noting a couple of things. One is that if

Don was done with Coach's Corner, why did he immediately start up a podcast with his son that continues to this day? And we'll visit this at the end, but you know, Don Cherry's been podcasting for six years, not really what you expect from somebody who decides they're looking for an exit strategy. Well, no, I don't necessarily think that's true. I mean, looking for an exit strategy. Well, no, I don't necessarily think that's true. I mean, podcasting is way easier. Oh, yeah, true. No travel. You don't have to dress up.

You don't have to pack a wardrobe or any of that stuff. You're right, John, as usual. You're right on this one. You're right. Listen, I quit traveling extensively in January because of a health issue myself, but I was stupid. I didn't announce it on Rogers, like some people thought I should.

But the, I mean, I just quit one thing. I quit the ship travels. I'm still, I still will travel within the continent and work and I have, but no more big flights anymore. No more long flights. But it's possible Don's doctor told him he should quit, but I'm knowing from what I know of Don Cherry, I don't believe he wanted to quit.

I'm with you. Sorry, please continue. Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. Okay. I was going to say, you know, you kind of touched on it earlier, but I do not believe, like in terms of my sniff test, and I haven't personally talked to Don about this, but I do not believe for a second that those comments on Coach's Corner about the poppy that ended up being his final Coach's Corner, I don't believe for one second this was part of some Machiavellian exit strategy scheme from Don Cherry. I think he spoke from his heart, he believed what he said and the fallout was what you would expect from a corporation like Rodgers. And I don't think Ron McLean did anything wrong. I think the next week he

did his apology. There was that awkward monologue we all watched, but you know, where he's kind of apologized for not speaking up in the moment and he explained why, you know, we're throwing to a clip and he had a producer in his ear and then so it kind of evaded him. But I don't believe for one second that was part of an exit strategy. And you referred to the fact that Ron McLean disclosed this health information which was a and I agree with you John that's a that was the mistake so I do have a quote from Ron McLean where he says I was completely out of line to engage in the conjecture and to share details of Dawn's health scare in 2019. I'm deeply sorry, I've apologized to Dawn."

So that quote comes after Gear Joyce published this story. Yeah, the key word there is conjecture. What McLean was saying was, this is my theory of what happened. And I don't, I mean, it's, it seems maybe, maybe because he hasn't hung out with Don for six years, maybe that's what it is. Although he has, you know,

I know there's a photo of them together for Don's 90th, I think, so they, you know, maybe they have had some contact since, but so Gare's story based on the conversation with Ron McLean It's interesting on a number of fronts and I'm I'm told more is coming so stay tuned to that and then I'm gonna get Gare on this program to speak to it all as a whole but There is a gentleman. Do you ever read the words of Joe Warmington in the Toronto Sun? I have Read them.

Okay. But not enough to feel as though I know Joe personally. Well, Joe, who we call Worms, he's like the Dawn Cherry whisperer, okay? So, Cherry takes his calls, gives him quotes, and then even accepts visits from Joe. And I'm gonna play a clip of a conversation Joe had with Don Cherry Very recently, but this is part of this follow-up to what Gare Joyce published is

from the Toronto Sun Joe Warmington again and Don Cherry called those claims that Ron McLean Made he called them false. And here's a direct quote. No, I wasn't looking for a way out. I never even thought of that. And I'll just tell you, John, I believe Don Cherry when he says that to Joe.

I agree, I agree with you. I agree with John there too. I agree he never thought of it, absolutely. And there, that's Don calling you now. He's like, enough of this worms nonsense. I think it's Don on the line. He's like enough of this worms nonsense. Don on the line. I gotta, I gotta take it. Hold on a minute.

Is that Don? Oh, it's a scam. Okay, well you can ignore that call. It can't be Don. I apologize for not silencing my phone. I was afraid Joe Warmington was gonna call. Oh, he might call after this publishes. Now another quote regarding the hospitalization.

And again, Ron credits, uh, Batman with this story. He goes, uh, this is Don talking to Joe Warmington. I didn't go to the hospital in Boston. I went to my room. I was pretty tired, but I just didn't go to the hospital. And now because we're talking about health claims here, you know, the hospital hospital is not gonna make a statement. There's a privacy. So really it's just, I don't know, I choose to believe Don. Why would he lie about being hospitalized

with pneumonia six years ago? But it's just interesting that we're even talking about this in 2025. I think he's mad at Ron quite justifiably. I think he's mad at Ron quite justifiably. And I mean, Ron put it on Betman, so Ron didn't actually say it, Betman told him. And that possibly means Betman got it. So maybe it's fourth party information.

You know, Ron shouldn't have said anything in this area. He really shouldn't have. But I think it's quite possible that Don Cherry went to the hospital. And the fact that he said in Boston makes me think that maybe he went to the hospital in another city. In St. Louis, in Toronto, somewhere. You know what I mean? Yeah, like, yeah, that he's not lying. Not that he said in Boston. Right. So he's not lying. I didn't go to the hospital in Boston. You know, you said he's mad at Ron. Maybe we listen to this 90 seconds of Don Cherry talking to Joe Warmington about this conversation that Ron McClain had with FOTM Gare Joyce.

I should say FOTM Ron McClain having with FOTM Gare Joyce. Those designations are very important, John. FOTM John Wink. That's the friend of Toronto Mike? That's correct. That that's correct as you are so let's listen to yeah Don and worms that you'd like to record set straight I'm very disappointed in Ron that he would bring this up and I'm very disappointed in him, that he would reach back five years and do this. Is he still welcome here to call you and friend or is this friendship? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, How do you feel about it? I don't have any feelings.

I don't have any feelings towards Ron. This is your wingman for almost, whatever it was, almost 40 years. 40 years. Almost 40 years. And there's a sense of, kind of almost like a betrayal a bit. Yeah. Well, I don't know about that. But I know one thing I'm disappointed in him. Have you talked to him?

No. And do you want to talk to him about it or? No, I don't want to talk to him about it. These stories that are being written about you now, did anybody contact you? No. What do you think of that? Yeah. You think the only guy that's gonna talk to me is you.

It's just basic. Nobody I was really surprised when I when I when Luma can give me that story. Wow. Okay. A couple of things. Gare was printing what somebody said. He wasn't saying it was true. So yes, he could have tried to contact Don Cherry. He might not have been able to contact him.

But I don't think it was necessary that he do so because he wasn't printing it as fact. He was printing it as hearsay. Somebody was saying it. He was quoting it. So, okay. And also, you know, this is a 91-year-old guy. He's a 91 year old guy. Good God, people. Good God, can't you just leave this guy alone? Hey, hey. And yeah, and note also, he didn't feel, my wife's mad at Ron, but I'm okay with him, right?

Because he's my friend. Well, he seemed like he was more like indifferent. I couldn't, you know, it seemed like he was kind of number indifferent to it all. Like he seemed kind of hurt and he just wasn't even going to waste the emotion of being angry. He was just like indifferent to use a personal example. My father got sick in 20.

When was it? 20 I forget forget, 29. Yeah. 20, 20, 2007, 2008, something like that. He got sick and he had to go to the hospital and he had to have his foot amputated. And I contacted a couple of his old, oldest friends from college and law school and Windsor. And I let them know, Dad's sick, he's in the hospital, I'm sure he would love it if you called him. And they both called him. And he was shocked that they called. And he asked my mother why they called and she said, because your son told him you were sick.

And guess who he was mad at? You. Yeah. Pissed. Revealing my personal information to people. Right. You know? So, yeah, I totally get why he's mad if he's mad at Ron.

Well, you know, Don seems like an old school type guy with that machismo where maybe he doesn't want to appear weakened, like as a guy who had to go to the hospital and was being helped by Ron McClain to get around the airport and everything. Because you know, the way that story of Garejoy plays is that that Garejoy reported plays is that Don was in really bad shape and Ron got him through it, like carried him. Yeah. Like maybe it's just it's a he doesn't want that. He's a proud man who feels that makes him look weak.

That's possible. Because you'll notice Ron when he apologized for disclosing the medical information, which he should have, he should have apologized for that. When he apologized about he doesn't walk anything back. Like he told Gare what he believed to be true. He just he just apologized for the fact he shouldn't have disclosed on cherries, personal health status from 2019? Memory is a weird thing, you know.

It's a weird thing. You can think you remember something exactly as it happened and you don't. So that's a possibility too, with both of them. Yeah. of them. Yeah, I'd be willing to bet that he got Don's luggage more than once. I'd be willing to bet that wasn't an unusual occurrence. The young guy getting the older guy's luggage. I'd be willing to bet that. But, you know, this was so unnecessary, and that's why it looks more like Ron is trying to clean up something he thinks tarnished him.

That's why it looks, I mean, I'm not saying that's what it is, but it sure looks that way. Because yeah, you know, some people are, I don't know if anybody's lying, people are misremembering, people are anxious not to look a certain way. So much of this is about posture, just like you said. Don doesn't want to look like a weak guy who had pneumonia. Although my God, you were 85. Good God. Why would you care but okay? Right.

It's such a, you know, people are so stupid. And they're not going to be able to do it. Right. Right. It's such a, you know, people are so stupid. And that. Why? This was unnecessary. Like you, you, you go all the way back to the, the dealing of the cards and you looked at that Jack 10 suit and you thought, I could win with this hand and you lost everything. You shouldn't have played it out of position, blah, blah, blah. Well, this is why I'm so interested in getting gear back.

So there's a bigger story to be published. So he doesn't want to like I actually said, hey, do you want to be a part of this? And he wasn't ready yet because his other piece hadn't dropped yet So it's like there's another piece of this puzzle dropping But when he comes on obviously I'll ask him like did you consider reaching out to Don Cherry because for all we know to give Gare the benefit the joke that the benefit of the doubt because he is such a great journalist and ethical man himself Like maybe he did try to get a quote from Don so we'll find out from him. But it'll be interesting because you know like I said off the top or I said recently in this this chat here this deep dive into Ron

versus Don I said Gare didn't call Ron to talk about Poppy Gate and exit strategy. They were talking about a cottage on Wolf Island in Kingston. So Ron seemed to take this opportunity to open this can of worms and here we are now. But one thing I'm going to just throw into this chat before we do our, I got my final two questions for you here, John. You've been amazing as always. But a lot of this revisiting Don Cherry's stuff with Joe Warmington and everything has to do with the fact that the podcast, the Don Cherry podcast, the X account, that's the app formerly known as Twitter, the official X account, which I think is run by Don Cherry's

son called the season finale. It was referred to as the finale, like the final episode ever. Like Don Cherry was retiring from his podcast And in this podcast and I pulled the final 30 seconds or so to play for you right now But so this is the X account saying this is it and on the episode it really does sound like the finale So it basically lots of stories were written about the fact that Don Cherry is retiring from podcasting So let's listen to that then I'll pick that up because this is sort of what brought the Don Cherry is retiring from podcasting. So let's listen to that, then I'll pick that up because this is sort of what brought the Don Cherry stuff

back into the public realm here. But here is the finale, last 47 seconds of Don Cherry's podcast that was recorded last month. Well, Tim, this is our last show. Yep. How many podcasts have we done? I don't know. This is our 313th.

313th. Yeah, we've been listening to all around the world. It's just amazing how many different countries, you know, people download and listen to it. We've had 6.5 million downloads, which is pretty good. So, how many? 6.5 million downloads. That's an awful lot. Thanks everybody for listening and toodaloo.

Let's go! So there you go, John, that's how it ended. And it was reported to be the finale. And then Don talked to Joe Warmington and said, Don Cherry told Joe, nah, it's just a season finale. I'll be back next year. So this is sort of what brought this chatter into the forefront again. 6.5 million. I've done 172

episodes and I have 41,800 downloads. Well, we all, but you know in in the world of bullshit baffles brains you can just say that was 41 million Who's gonna call you a liar? Well, I I say what I think Yeah, so anyways that just an interesting wrinkle because when I listen to that and I read what was written on the Don Cherry X Account it does seem like that. I think it would be Don's son, but it sounds like Don's son was mercy killing the podcast. Cause Don sounds all of his 91 years in that clip. Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, so much of it now is, is con you know, content, but maybe at 91, you can actually take a rest. Who knows? I don't know.

Well, listen, on our way out here, two big questions I mentioned to close this out. So the first one is John Wing. Yeah. What's the legacy of Coach's Corner? What's the legacy of Coach's Corner? Well, it, it was a great segment in its time. It was a great segment in its time. I mean, in two years, I'm going to be back on the podcast for the controversy of is Kelly Rudy's head really that large? Or do I need a bigger TV to encompass the girth of Kelly Rudy's noggin?

Coach's corner was a great idea. It was a great idea. Don't forget that. And they got the right guy to do it initially. Um, if he'd stepped away 20 years in and they brought in a new coach to do it, maybe, maybe we're don't, we don't have this conversation where we don't. But, uh, if corporate corporate culture hadn't changed, you know, CBC hadn't lost the thing, but the times changed. In its time, it was a great segment. Absolutely. Of its time, and I can say personally, and I consider myself a very progressive person, I was entertained by the show to a point where I didn't go to the washroom during Coach's

Corner. by the show to a point where I didn't go to the washroom during Coach's Corner? I got to the point where I did, but only because by my late 50s, I was going to the washroom a lot. Well, it depends, right, John? It depends. Okay. You promised me. Okay, but regardless.

You promised me. You know, you have revealed some personal health information there, Mike. And, you know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm going to call Joe Warmington. You know, I have not talked to Mike about revealing my depends information. That's funny. Now, the big question as we close here, and I think maybe this speaks to the larger, you know, Canadian of it all, but why do you think, John Wing, that we care so much about Ron and Don? Because, like it or not, they are Canadian cultural iconoclasts, both of them.

They have both been around so long that they are a comfortable chair. They were, they are, they were a comfortable chair for us. They are a thing we know on a night when we watch a thing, when we sit down at seven o'clock, it used to be eight o'clock when I was a kid, but we like, I remember Ward Cornell for God's sake, the guy before Dave Hodge. Because you go back a long way with these guys. That's why. Because you feel as though you know them. I feel weird when I

meet someone like that. I don't know how to talk to them. And yet, there are people who have watched them for so long who could just walk up and talk to them. Because I know you. I've sat next to you. Although you were on TV for 35 years, I've sat next to you. I've sat next to you, although you were on TV for 35 years. I've sat next to you. I've watched you talk. So we know each other, right? It's that. And in Canada, with a smaller country and a smaller population, it's stronger, in my opinion, than it is where I currently live. Well, you know, we jokingly said, we said Tommy Hunter at the same time earlier. And I do think, you know, although I am a bit younger than you,

I am of an age where I grew up and became an adult in a pre-internet world. And in a pre-internet world, to be coast to coast on national TV on a Saturday night, when the whole country's tuned in to, let's say, Leafs versus Habs, for example. Really, that's a shared experience for this entire, you know, big in geography, but small in populace,

uniting this country. And we all listened and we all went to Tim Horton's or whatever and talked about, did you hear what Don said last night? Like this is sort of part of our- Okay, I'm old enough to remember Tim Horton. Not the coffee shop, the guy. I used to say that on my show. So this is how old I am. When I was a kid Tim Horton was a guy. Thanks for doing this John Wing. It won't be the last time we

talk on Toronto Mike. Thanks, thanks Mike. I appreciate that. Don't bike yourself into a calf injury, okay? Hey, what are you doing Saturday? July 19th, the Toronto Maple Leafs are playing the Hamilton Cardinals at Christie Pits. Be there. It's a 7-30 game. That's a beautiful night game for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Great baseball. Grab yourself a Leafs logger.

Fill the hill. Get a hot dog. What value, what entertainment for the whole family. We love Toronto Maple Leafs baseball on this program. Speaking of great events happening on July 19th, Canada's National Hip Hop Festival is back. It's its 17th year. Experience countless ways to explore culture, expand knowledge, and express yourself.

We promise you don't wanna sleep on Unity Fest 25. And speaking of the waterfront, check out the GLB Brew Pub. It's at Jarvis and Queens Quay. Delicious food, fresh craft beer, and they're going to host us for TMLX 20 on September 25th. That's Jarvis and Queens Quay. And you know what pairs nicely with a fresh can of GLB? Palma Pasta.

They're in Mississauga and Oakville. Go to palmapasta.com. Every guest who comes on Toronto Miked in person receives a large lasagna from Palma Pasta. And every guest lets me know it's the best lasagna they've ever had from a store. It is too good to be true. Give it a go.

Speaking of too good to be true, recyclemyelectronics.ca. That's where you go if you have old cables, old electronics, old devices. You don't throw them in the garbage. Those chemicals end up in our landfill. You go to recyclemyelectronics.ca. And last but not least, I want to tell you about Life's Undertaking. That is a podcast from Brad Jones at Ridley Funeral Home. It's a great podcast you should listen to. I get to co-host it. Much love for your support, Ridley Funeral Home.

home. And that brings us to the end of our 1731st show. Let's go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love again to all who made this possible. Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto's Waterfront BIA, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto's Skyline, and Ridley Funeral Home. See you all Friday! Musician Graven makes his Toronto Mic'd debut. See you all then. I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star

I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star So The I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man

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I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man Let's go! Let's go! Listen, listen, never turn. You do that, you call you Myrtle. Let's go! Let's go! He could dangle, he could score, who else but me or? Let's go, let's go, Who's the best I often ponder? Right now it's EV Wonder! Let's go! Let's go! Drop them!

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Let's go!