Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Rusty: Toronto Mike'd #340

Episode Date: May 26, 2018

Mike chats with Ken MacNeil, Scott McCullough and John Sutton of Rusty about 90s Canadian alternative rock, the first three Rusty albums, the breakup, the reformation and the new crowdfunded album.

There he is! Rusty! Rusty! What up Miami? Toronto! VK on the beat, uh-huh, check, uh-huh I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love

My city love me back, for my city love Welcome to episode 340 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. Did you know that 99.9% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario? GLB, brewed for you, Ontario. And propertyinthesix.com, Toronto real estate done right. And Paytm, an app designed to manage

all of your bills in one spot. Download the app today from paytm.ca. And our newest sponsor, Camp Tournesol, the leading French summer camp provider in Ontario. I'm Mike from Toronto Mike, and joining me is Ken McNeil and Scott McAuliffe from Rusty. But hold on here. Late breaking news.

A third member has arrived. John, what's John's last name? Sutton. Sutton. From the Weaker Thans? What a kick-ass band that is too. Welcome, guys. Welcome to Toronto Mic'd.

You can talk now. I am. Good to be here. Ken, did you really come all the way from Sudbury today? Yes, I did. Just for this podcast. I flew in, especially. I wouldn't blame you if you did.

This is going to be quite the experience. You guys ran for quite the treat. Awesome. Nice to finally meet you. And Scott, we've been corresponding for a while now, like digitally. And it's great to finally get you here. Yeah, I'm glad to be here finally it's good we could good we could do it especially all of us together yeah and uh and again i'm sorry

i don't i don't have enough mics for all of you this is the first time i think i've had this problem so john you gotta when you have something to say just uh yeah get really close to a kenner's guy and uh and just scott uh you really do got to eat this mic. I'm on it. It's like a drinking game. When I tell the guests to eat the mic, they got to take a drink. So I'm going to tell you right off the bat that this is a fucking pleasure for me because I'm always singing your praises. I bring you up in lots of episodes, Rusty.

I just think you guys are great. So it's a super pleasure. Well, thank you very much. It's an honor. And, Ken, I love seeing you in the Leafs hat. That just seems, that's you, right? That's me, man. I love the Leafs.

I live, I die by the Leafs. Greatest sporting franchise. So you do a lot of dying, is that what you're telling me? I've been dying a lot, yeah. Well, it's 1967. It's the last time I've been happy. Well, I knew, what, you were in diapers? I was two.

I was two years old. I remember happy. Well, I made it. What, you were in diapers? I was two. I was going to say. I was two years old. I remember it fondly. You stayed up. You were allowed to stay up at two-year-old. Watch Hockey Night in Canada. But yeah, I mean, I was born after that. So like I've never seen my team.

I've never seen my favorite team in a Stanley Cup final, which is sad. No, neither have I. I was, I don't remember it. But you got these Vegas fans like waited a whole five months or something. Yeah. I've been to actual Stanley Cup riots before because I grew up in Montreal. Oh, okay.

Let me tell you, I've gotten to throw bottles and it's been quite a fun. Overturned police cars. It's a real gas one. Maybe that's what Toronto needs is a good riot. Yeah.

Vancouver's had them. Montreal's had them. We don't seem to do that for sports. People in Toronto are too busy to riot. Too much going on, right? Too much going on, man. It's the center of the universe. They can't stop it.

You've got to riot. Riots are fun. So that's, okay. It brings the community together. It does, surprisingly. Montreal, dude, is that where they rioted because Axl Rose was late for Gunnans and Rose? Was that Montreal? I heard that.

I wasn't there or anything, but there was some sort of deal about that. But the riots weren't for losing, too. They were winning riots. We rioted in 92, 93. 93, yeah, Patrick Wilde. And it was just a fun riot, not like an angry riot like Vancouver. But no, wait, something is, there was a little bit of a riot on Yonge Street once. Oh, no, after the Rodney King verdict.

So after the Rodney King verdict, there were riots all across the states in big cities, and I remember it did occur here too. A little bit on Yonge Street. I do recall that. By the Barracuda, remember? You know what I mean? By the Barracuda.

Which is long gone now. Don't forget the G20 summit a few years ago. Oh, shit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you, John. Anarchists.

They were kettle, what is that called? The kettle potting where they grouped everybody. That was awful, yeah. Speaking of which, since you brought it up, do you know the protester

Adam Nobody who won his case against the police for brutality and he's now being paid a settlement? He's a guy who works as a stagehand

at various rock venues, and I'm kind of a buddy of mine. Big Rusty fan, too, comes to our shows. And he is actually running in the provincial election in my riding for this new None of the Above party that's popped out, the Kenny Robinson, the comedian. So he's actually thrown his hat into the political ring.

What's his name? Adam Wordsworth Nobody. Nobody, yeah. So vote for nobody from the above party. That might do well this time. I still don't think I could vote for nobody.

I still wouldn't be able to get around to it. It's a weird climate right now because, I mean, Doug is, I mean, Doug to me is a very, I mean, Four Nation loves him and some of the staunch conservatives. And this is sort of,

you're kind of in his land over here. I feel like I'm south of it. Like, I'll be honest. They're a little... I don't know. More progressive. Like, the further south you go in Etobicoke, the more progressive it gets. And now, because we're south of the lakeshore, so I like to say we're sort of not painted

with the same brush as, like, northern Etobicoke. Right. That's what I tell my kids anyway. It's like the demarcation line might be Lakeshore or something like that. Do you mind if I, before we dive in, I want to hear about, I want to go back and talk about the band and Fluke

and all that stuff, and then I want to talk about what you're up to now. The funny thing is I talked to Scott the other day. I said, Scott, I want to play some of the new stuff. And you told me you don't even have the new stuff. Is that right? We don't have our mixes yet. No, I mean, I have some rough mixes.

But you're not allowed to play those. Yeah, I'm not allowed to play those yet. But no, in the modern day era, you give your mixes away and they go away and they mix them. And Ian has our mixes and he's been busy. He's working on it. Yeah, he recorded another record in Winnipeg

over the last couple of weeks. So he's, I guess, stopped mixing our stuff. Let's just get it clear. We're allowed to do whatever we want. We're just respecting his wishes. How's that? You could play the shit. I don't want anybody out there to think that people tell us what to do, because I'm

here to tell you, no one fucking tells me what to do. Except for my kids, my wife, my boss, John Sutton. We're respecting the producer's wishes by not playing the mixes. But you know what? We'll make sure you get them. And you've been listening to me because you're eating that mic perfectly.

Am I? You do listen to me too. Everyone actually tells me what to do. Is it weird? I want to tell you I'm a big fan of 90s Canadian alternative rock. Is that a genre? Can we call it a genre? 90s Canadian alternative rock. Is that a genre? Can we call it a genre? 90s Canadian alternative rock? There's going to be a movie about it.

Raven Drool. Is that right? Yeah. You don't know about that. Check it out. I'm surprised you haven't caught it on social media. Yeah, it's called Raven Drool. I know.

There's a Twitter account for this, right? Yeah, the Canrock 90s Renaissance. They did an interview. Are you behind this venture? No, Scott did an interview for it. I did an interview for them, yeah. It's a real thing. I should be the poster boy for that. They have a trailer. They have a trailer. You know how people do that to raise

funds? So they make the trailer first. That's what they're doing, but will it ever become them? I don't know. I think they're actually crowdfunding it like we did, so it's like the trailer is to try to kind of pull the crowd. And it's sort of about that and it's about kind of, I mean, from the trailer,

I'm gathering that it's sort of about that whole kind of heyday of all the Canadian bands and then sort of how it all just sort of died. Can I start name dropping some of these bands?

I loved Rusty, obviously. We're going to spend a whole episode talking about Rusty. They're the best. They were the best. And you just tell me, did you know them?

Just give me anything you want. We know them want. Ready? Let me start with this. Firstly, just a couple of weeks ago, Acid Test was here. Do you know Acid? Yes, Steve Fall was here with Lucy. Lucy and Steve? You know better than me. I know them well. I mean, I think we knew...

I even played with those guys when my old man won free fall. And did Acid Test not come to Mexico? I don't remember. You don't remember. I think that we actually went to Mexico City with Acid Test. But yeah, know them very well. Hung out with them at many a booze can late at night.

He's Steve's Maritimer. He's a salt of the earth good guy. They're all good guys. Same as me. Me too. Where are you from? I'm from Wolfville, Nova Scotia. Kenfield, salt of the earth good guy. They're all good guys. Same as me. Me too. Are you from, where are you from? I'm from Woolfield,

Nova Scotia. Kenfield, Nova Scotia. That explains, yeah. You guys are in some kind of clique or whatever. There's a whole like Maritimer's club. Yeah.

Well, when we started the band, it was, Ken's old band, One Free Fall, was all four of them were from the Annapolis Valley and then Sandy left

and I was the only non-Nova Scotian in the band when I joined, actually. Because you came from Montreal. Yeah. Because you were in another band, which I'm going to play a bit in just a moment. In fact, they're going to be on this list.

But Change of Heart. Did you guys ever cross paths with Change of Heart? We couldn't get away from them. Right? Yeah, and I probably even go back further than anybody, too, probably, because I got here to Toronto a little earlier. So I started seeing them in, I went to 84, probably. Yeah, they I probably even go back further than anybody too, probably because I got here to Toronto a little earlier. So I started seeing them in, I went to 84 probably. Yeah, they go way back.

And Ian played drums in a band that I had going for a few years called Luther Victim. All of our recordings, Ian Blurton played drums on. So Ian and I kind of go back to the mid-80s. Oh, wow. We've toured together. We've toured together a lot. We toured the Pollywog tour.

It was a tour of all these small towns in Quebec with Change of Heart, SNFU, Rusty. Grim Skunk? I don't know if Grim Skunk. It was the poor man's Grim Skunk. It was like the other band. Yeah. The other French band.

And remember Messy Yo-Yo? No, I don't remember that. I love these name drops. Oh, it was so awesome. But it was really cool. We played like, we didn't play Quebec. Well, we might have played Quebec City in Montreal, but it was these places you've never been.

Like, these were small. Minor League Baseball Stadium. And it was so French, and we were so immersed in Quebec that I never knew. You know, like, we know Montreal. Yeah, which is pretty English, really. But it was so awesome, and people were like, it was great. I mean, they didn't really even know who we were.

That's why it was a great thing for us, because we got to play to a, it was like going to a different country. I mean, it was so cool. And then Ian was, excuse me to interrupt you, Ian was reminding us that we toured out west with Ian. I don't remember that either. I don't remember that. We don't remember a lot, for some reason.

I think we did an East Coast tour with them in the Monoxides as well. I don't think you, We don't remember a lot for some reason. I think we did an East Coast tour with them and the Monoxides as well. I don't remember for the obvious reasons. Everyone always assumes you're saying you don't remember

because of your drug-addled life of rock and roll, but I just don't think you have enough room in your brain to remember everything. Yeah,

stuff pushes out to get new stuff in there. That's what I think. That's like Homer Simpson, right? Apparently touring with Change Your Heart was one of the things that fell out. That's what I think. That's like Homer Simpson, right? Apparently touring with Changer Heart was one of the things that fell out. That's funny.

And Ian produced a record. Can we bring that up? No, that's it. That's the shit I'm looking for. I'm going to drop these names and whatever falls out. And if nothing falls out, just say you got nothing and I'll move on to the next name. Did you know Ian was the first drummer in the Cowboy Junkies? No. He was.

He was also in Neon Realm back then. But I knew him first as a sort of a drummer and then saw the teenage version of Change of Heart come out. But Ian was, yeah, I remember when he came on the scene

as like a 16-year-old. I go back that far with him. Wow. What about, let's go with the Gandharvas. The Gandharvas from London, Ontario. I was more of a fan

of that band than the rest of Rusty for some reason. And we did a lot of shows with them, especially in spots like Toledo and Cleveland. And when there was that little scene in Detroit where all the radio stations were playing the Canadian music, the Gandharvas were part of that. So we used to do a lot of gigs with them in 95, 96. Nice guys. They must get a big uptick every year on the first day of spring, right? Yeah.

I mean, I put it on my blog every year, you know, here's first day of spring. That's actually my birthday. Maybe that's why I like them because I do like that song, I must say. What is a Gandharva, though? What does that even mean? Isn't it like a... Is it a bird? No, I think it's like a...

A guru? Some kind of a... What do they call it? A gargoyle? A gargoyle. That's what I'm looking for. And I think that from their logo, like if I could picture their logo, there's a gargoyle. How did I know you wanted to say gargoyle? Gargoyle. That's what I'm looking for. And I think that from their logo, if I could picture their logo, there's a gargoyle.

How did I know you wanted to say gargoyle? I don't know, because I couldn't remember what they're fucking called. I went like this. You made the ball striking a gargoyle ball. I'm like,

what are those creatures called? Yeah, that's funny. That's great. What about Limlifter? Limlifter. Nice guys. The Dahl brothers. We played with them somewhere.

I even went to see them. I went to see them. Remember X-rays? We played with them recently in London. We played with them somewhere. I even went to see them. I went to see them. Remember X-Rays? We played with them recently in London. We played with them. That's Age of Electric. They're on my list too, so you can talk about Age of Electric if you want. They're like the more rock limnifter. Well, whenever I can't find the remote control,

I go into my, where's my remote control, which is the Age of Electric. Can you please hum me one more of their songs? Yeah, there's the age of a legend. Can you please hum me one more of their songs? Yeah, there's a couple of hits. There's at least one more. No, we did. We actually, you might forget this, Ken,

but when we recorded Sophomoric, we rehearsed in their rehearsal space in Vancouver. I used to have a limb lifter jacket. Wow. It was weird. That's obscure. They gave me a jacket. I'm trying to remember what it looked like. I kind of like them. I like that song

Tinfoil. I like that. I like them too. I'm a fan. Kind of a neat band. And they just played, eh? They played at Lee's Palace about a year ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In fact, one of them is married to Corinne Culbertson, who's a long-time Toronto musician who now lives out on the West Coast. They have a kid together. Now, do both of the brothers

play in both bands? That's where I get confused. I think so. But wait, there's two sets of brothers. Oh, yeah. No, the Dahl brothers play in both bands. The Dahl brothers. One is the drummer, because I saw him.

It's funny that we played with him, and I never talked to him. No, I talked to him very briefly. Because I used to know them, and now we play with them. We're just old now. No one wants to talk to each other. I never liked him. That's Because I used to know them, and now we play with them. We're just old now. No one wants to talk to each other. I never liked you.

That's funny. Creeps of Wrath. Wankus. Is that right? I don't know. Come on. Next you'll tell me there's no Santa Claus. We didn't play many shows with them.

No. And if we would, we would have beat them up. What about Eric's Trip? Speaking of... Eric's Trip, yeah. I don't think we ever played with Eric's Trip. Was Eric's Trip even a band by the time Rusty was a band? Oh, that's a good point.

They're kind of early, eh? Remember Elevators to Hell? There was some band we played with in Moncton who they didn't give us enough room on the stage to play when we had just started out. And then we hated them for the rest of our existence. And I'm thinking that was Eric Strip

but I can't remember. I don't remember. Cool band though. I think, you know, I don't know. People seem to like them. What about Head? Two-H Head.

I think Eric Strip sounded like children playing music that didn't know how to play music kind of. No? But people like that

like Sonic Youth, right? Yeah, yeah. There's no way you could say that. You think Sonic Youth sucks? I hate Sonic Youth. I don't know if they... You don't like them. That's great. I don't know that I don't like them. I didn't, right? Yeah, yeah. There's no way you could say that. You think Sonic Youth sucks? I hate Sonic Youth. I don't know if they... You don't like them, that's great.

I don't know that I don't like them. I didn't say I didn't like them, but they're just not very good. You know what I mean? Like, Pearl Jam's really good. I agree. Sonic Youth is not really good. Kind of like the Stones suck, too, right? Oh, really?

A little bit. Well, the Stones aren't very good. Okay. Are they? Well, I mean, I like them. I'm not saying I don't like them. I just don't think Charlie Watts... That early stuff's pretty good. Charlie Watts is a very good. Okay. Well, I mean, I like them. I'm not saying I don't like them. I just don't think Charlie Watts. That early stuff's pretty good.

Charlie Watts is a very good drummer. No, you know, when I worked that Stones thing and I watched them rehearse, that's what I kind of thought to myself. I thought, look, they're like weak little men who can barely hit their instruments. You know what I mean? They're tiny.

Charlie Watts walked by me and he was like 4'11". It was like... Okay, so you said another one. Head with the 2H head. Happy, right? Our very first out-of-town show was opening for Head in Oshawa, and we walked in and... Hayden.

Brendan Canning was playing the guitar riff for Wake Me on his bass, going, I like your new single, guys. Yeah, that's when we met them. That's great. I think we were kind of on the same label, and we played lots of shows with Head. Speaking of Hayden and Head, they were on some CFNY New Music Search CD.

I used to spin a lot of them, like 93 or something like that. And then Head also won the cash from CFNY that year. The Musical Olympics. Yeah, they won it that year. And Hayden's track, I remember, was Take a Part of Me, Take All of Me. No one knows this Hayden track,

but it's still my favorite Hayden track because it's the first one I heard on this new music series. And I think he's, again, I think he's back. No, he's definitely back. He is just doing something at Massey Hall with a bunch of artists for like autism funding and stuff like that. I remember reading a little bit about that. Yeah, Hayden Desser.

I got to get him on this show. There you go. Blurton was telling us some Hayden stories because I think he went on tour with him in Europe and did sound for him and stuff like that there was a period there like in the mid 90s where Hayden was the next Neil Young

as I remember I know what happened I don't know and I was like oh the next Neil Young and then didn't quite work out

we were supposed to be the next something down in the states too and it never happened the next skinny puppy who are you next skinny puppy Chris Chappell

skinny puppy who are you the next of Stone Temple Pilots I forget who we were supposed to name. Who were you the next of? I'm trying to... Stone Temple Pilots. I forget who we were the next of, but we were the next somebody. It never worked out. Depends who you ask.

We're the next Rusty. What about the Waltons? Lick My Tractor. I love that show. Oh, yeah, John, you got a story here, Waltons? Hello. They're from Regina.

So am I. So I know them. And Regina rhymes with... I remember So I know them. And Regina rhymes with... I remember the guy. He always wore a baseball hat. Like a farmer hat. Yeah. I remember him. I remember meeting him and stuff. I can't recall any of their music. Oh, no. Naked Rain was a huge radio

hit. Yeah. I can't sing it right now, right? But I fucking remember it was played all the time. Naked Rain, I think it was called. From Lick My Tractor. Lick My Tractor. Lick My Tractor. L-I-K. All right, just a few more. I could do this forever, but let's go with Hubbell Kate. Lowest of the Low. Did you ever interact

with Lowest of the Low? No. Not much, and the only thing I ever did with them was Roy Pike, who did one of our videos, one of our buddies who was a video director. I was his camera protector in the pit at Lee's Palace for one of their videos, and I can't remember which one it was. Again, I think

Lowest of the Low was a little before Rusty. A little bit, yeah. Okay, so Shakespeare, yeah, you're right. They were like 93, 94. They were quite a Toronto thing for sure, right? They performed in this basement, Lowest of the Low. Really? Yeah. You guys didn't bring any instruments.

Stephen Stanley. Yeah, he also came separately because he's no longer of the low. Really? Yeah. You guys didn't bring any instruments. Stephen Stanley. Yeah, Stephen, he also, he came separately because he's no longer in the band. Right, right. He's now solo guy, but he's been here, yeah, but Ron Hawkins and Lawrence Nichols. Ron drives that. Ron drives that. Yeah, that's the Ron show. He pushes that. Absolutely. How about

Rhymes of Orange? Oh my God! Because the other day, randomly, I'm listening to the Taking of David. I forgot all about those guys. And I forgot they spell rhymes without the H. That's the thing they do there. Are they from the West Coast?

Are they a Winnipeg band, Johnny? Vancouver. Didn't we see them? I watched them play at the town pump for some reason. I don't know if we played with them or we were there the night before or something. I draw a blank. I never even met them. They watched them play at the town pump for some reason. I don't know if we played with them or we were there the night before or something. I draw a blank. I never even met them. They were horrendous. I only remember that one jam, man.

They dressed in baggy clothes. They reminded me of they kind of wish they were happy Mondays. 13 Engines. Yeah, I remember those guys. They had a few hits, I think. Roy and Pike did a video for them, too. Yeah. Yeah, I remember those guys. They had a few hits, I think. Roy and Pike did

a video for them too. Yeah. More, I remember. Like, more. I don't think John critically liked us though, for some

reason. He was a weird guy. He offended me at least three times. Then we'd go back to making friends and we'd like each

other and he'd say something else. But I think I was easily offended back then. I was big into his first Toronto band, The Icons. I remember I had their

first cassette. It was like a five-song cassette, and I just loved it and played the hell out of it. And 13 Engines, I knew their drummer and stuff. And so I liked them, yeah. Nice guys, whatever. They used to hang out at the... What was the bar on the annex that we... when I used to live

up there? The Tap? The Tap. They were Tap guys. They used to hang out at the Tap. Come on. Critchley has a really nice black lab, too. used to live up there. The tap? The tap. They were tap guys. I used to hang out at the tap. Come on. Richley has a really nice black lab, too. It goes to my dog park. Oh, so don't tell him. Did I say anything about him? Which dog park is that?

Oh, that's a secret. I know he has a studio in his place because he's married to Tina Cooper. Did I insult him? I didn't mean to. No, I don't think so. He insulted me, I thought, but he probably didn't. I was probably just sensitive. How about Junkhouse?

Yeah, we played with them. From Hamilton. I don't know what to say about them. I don't either. We didn't really know them. Let's go back west. What about Northern Pikes? Dreamland. I saw them playing at some football game

or something this year they did Teenland and they don't look the same now they're an 80's band they played my high school in grade 11 wow treble charger here's a good story

I was in Boyne Mountain on March break in northern Michigan this year. I saw the, what's his name? Greg. Greg Northey. Yeah, that's him, yeah. The manager of. Craig Northey.

Craig Northey. That's the odds guy, isn't it? Oh, no, you're right, you're right. That's the odds guy. Never mind. I'll shut up. Greg Northey. And he's from the Sioux.

He's from the Sioux. He moved back to the Sioux. They're all from the Sioux. Yeah. and he's from the Sioux. He's from the Sioux. He moved back to the Sioux. They're all from the Sioux.

Yeah, and I ran into him in a fucking ski resort, which is hilarious. He was there with his kids, and he wasn't actually staying there. He was visiting because he was at another ski resort down the road, and he was coming to the one we were at to look at maybe coming next year, and he's going to come there next year.

He also managed. he was like a music business guy. Wasn't there a TV show on Much Music that he was involved with too? I don't remember that. He became a band manager eventually. Well, he managed Sum 41. Sum 41, yeah. Okay. When we started at the El Macombo, we kind of came out of the El Macombo scene in that

94, we used to play Elvis Mondays. NC-17. NC-17, the precursor band was always in that same scene. So we kind of both came out of that Elmo scene at that time before they changed their name sort of thing. They used to play a lot of Elvis Mondays. All right. So, Scott, this is for you.

Oh, jeez. Now, this is... Okay, so... This is past my days. This is past your days. This isn't Scott playing guitar. I worked on this video. Did you?

With Roy? I worked with the art department. Oh, wow. This is... And I stayed at John's department. Oh, wow. This is a... And I stayed at John's house. Okay, so let's tell everybody. Scott, you were in the Doughboys. I started the Doughboys with Kastner and Brock.

You can't hear it. And then I was the first guy out. You can't hear it. I'm sorry. Yeah. Remember, you guys, I just went for the record. I thought it was just going to be two of you. This guy's surprised.

And I only have the two, the headphones. So, yeah, so John right now can't hear this jam, unfortunately. So you'll have to sing it. Okay, so sorry, Scott, you were telling us. Yeah, you started the Doughboys, but you left the Doughboys before this album, which was sort of the album everybody knows from the Doughboys. Yeah, although I've come to see, notice lately that, well, at least on Facebook or on the internet,

there's a big little, not a big, it's a small cult of lovers of the first album, whatever. Just because a lot of people, I think it's the age. They came of age in 87. They heard that album. There wasn't a ton of stuff going on. I mean, there was, but Montreal didn't have a big rock scene. And so a lot more people like that record than... In fact, do you know that guy Chris Pagerkamp,

Ottawa musician? They did a tribute to the album in Ottawa, and they all, different singer-songwriters, Jim Bryson and that, they all came and did, played songs from whatever

as a concert, theme concert. Seminole. You call that album Seminole. Seminole, yeah. All right, so that's the beloved album, and this is the one that sort of Much music loved

So Ken, it's amazing in the small world again That you worked on this video Because this video was on high rotation On the much music Because of the work I did on it I know, I was going to say And Roy Pike directed it Why did Roy Pike come up?

Our good buddy, the Roy Pike show I remember The first time I heard this song. I was at Ivan's house and John played us the mixes when he got back from recording this. He was very excited about it and I really liked it. And I would honestly say I'm not really sure I was a Gold Boys fan before this record. This is more what I would have liked. I thought this was a good record. But I saw something today

that Peter Arsenault posted who used to play bass for one of the many bass players for the Doughboys. Didn't you play with the Doughboys? Just thought of that. But anyways, we're getting off topic. But anyways, he posted something on Facebook with an album

cover by the Doughboys that I totally forgot about. And I'm wondering, did they put out a record after this? After Shine? Crush. Yeah, the album's Crush. This song's called Crush. This album's called Crush. Sorry.

This album's called Crush. But was there an album after it? I don't think so, but I don't know. I gotta go on. Someone get the phone out and look at Peter Arsenault's... That's John's job. He's the Googler. Anyways, yeah.

What did he say about it that he had not come out? He just played a song from it. And I was like, I don't even remember this. Yeah, there was Leaves Home or Returns or Home Again or something. I don't know. I don't think there was a record after Crush, but I could be wrong. When did you start playing in All Systems Go, Johnny? That's Kastner's band after this.

Yeah, John played. Can I say it? You mentioned Pearl Jam earlier, Ken. I saw All Systems Go on the small stage of Molson Park prior to the Pearl Jam show in 1998. There you go. There you go. I saw them at...

I don't know. I saw Pearl Jam. I think Hayden was there too, actually. I saw Pearl Jam at the concert hall. Oh, wow. Do you recognize that album cover? No.

No, I don't. It's called... The album is called... For anyone out there who would know, Turn... I can't even read it. Turn Me On.

Turn Me On by the Doughboys. Interesting. And the song is called Perfect Something. I just don't... I don't... Turn Me On Turn Me On by the Doughboys interesting and the song is called Perfect something I just don't I don't

that rings a bell to me I think they might have put out a record after it Scott why did you leave the Doughboys he was asked to leave I got kicked out I left Montreal

and if you want the real story I left Montreal I did the tour and then we got home like I well none of us had apartments except Kastner which I helped pay for his rent I left Montreal and if you want the real story, I left Montreal to do the tour and then we got home. Well, none of us had apartments except Kastner, which I helped pay for his rent while I was on tour,

but I had no apartment. My stuff was in a storage at the rehearsal space. We got home. I had no place to live in Montreal, so I went and hung out with my girlfriend in Kingston. And then I just didn't come home. I didn't come back to Montreal because I didn't have anywhere to live in Montreal. And John, I guess we didn't communicate

because, you know, phones back then. It was a little harder to get a hold of people. And he just replaced me without telling either the band or me. And the only thing I was really bummed out about, I was pretty well ready to quit at this point. We were kind of grinding up against each other. But the show we were going to do in Montreal in October

was opening for Husker Du. And I was a huge Husker Du fan. And I really wanted to play that show and then maybe quit after that. Right. I phoned my buddy Pat and he said, oh, I've heard you've been replaced in the Doughboys. I was like, really? I didn't hear that. But I guess now I know.

And how did you hook up with the guys from Rusty? Like, how did you form Rusty? Ken was living over in Liberty Village and I was living in Parkdale. And we were just hanging out as buddies. And I was, I remember we'd drive around in your car. I'd play these tracks I was doing with Luther Victim and stuff, and Ken would be like, oh, that sounds good. And we were just buddies.

We were friends, because we met through William, probably. William knew, was a buddy of both of ours, so we were just friends. We were just hanging out, and then at one point, Ken was kind of fed up, and he was like, we want to change guitars. We want to start fresh, do a new thing. Do you want to play guitar?

It was just a simple invitation. I came down, played, and then never left. So what happened to One Free Fall, Ken? Well, I mean, like I said, it sort of just turned into Rusty. Rusty really is One Free Fall with me as a different member, really. It's the same band. I like the name Rusty better, I think. Me too.

Good. Do you know where it came from? No. Should we tell that story? Can I guess? Can I guess? And then you can tell the story. I'm sure I'm wrong, but the friendly giant, it's the name of the giraffe.

Everyone says that, but it's not that. Should I tell the story of your pops? Go ahead. Well, it's funny because I didn't like the name Rusty at first. And I said to Ken back then, I was like, that's what you would name a dog, Rusty, not a band. But anyway, it's our name and we, you know, you get used to names and most people don't like their band names anyway. But fast forward like

three years and we're in a Halifax hotel room with Ken's dad and we've been up late drinking beer and he's ordered some room service breakfast and he's trying to keep us awake and we're like, we gotta go to sleep. We gotta leave at noon tomorrow. And I remember we had like our blankets over our head and Ken's dad goes, Ken, do you remember that time you brought that stray dog home and called him Rusty?

And I sat bolt upright in the bed. I'm like, what did you say, Bill? He goes, yeah, he brought this old dog home and called him Rusty. I wasn't able to keep it. I can't remember what ever happened to that. It was a beagle, too. It was a little rabbit dog. Oh, that's great.

So anyway. And then it became Rusty. We became Rusty. So guys, my brother loves my podcast. That's good news. Okay. My brother's great. So anyway. And then it became Rusty. We became Rusty. So guys, my brother loves my podcast. That's good news, okay? My brother Steve. But he's never ever like submitted a question ever. This is episode 340.

But he submitted a question for you guys. So this is like a big deal to me. Wow. Huge fan. So okay, let me read his thing. So this is from Steve, my brother. Tell Rusty I saw them a few times and they were great every time. They opened for Foo Fighters at Arrow Hall in 97

and it was an awesome set. The pits were intense. And I have to know for sure, this is the big question, okay, because we grew up in West Toronto, me and my brothers, and he says, this is for you, Ken. I think this is for you, Ken. Were you a cook in Bloor West Village or was

that just an odd West Toronto rumor? Because everybody in West Toronto talked about how Ken from Rusty was a cook in Bloor West Village. Is was that just an odd West Toronto rumor? Because everybody in West Toronto talked about how Ken from Rusty was like a cook in Bloor West Village. Is that true? I certainly was. So which weir? You can't remember? I can't remember the name of the place.

It was weird because a long, long time ago, when I was in Winfrey Falls, I was a cook at a place called the Nevada in the beaches. Okay. And I remember the owner's name and everything. Orris Callaby was a guy, and he was a West Toronto guy. That was his sort of neighborhood. He was a Ukrainian dude.

Oh, that would be like Bloor West Village. Right. But they still have that Ukrainian. And then he opened a big restaurant with a store in it and everything, and I just can't remember the name of it. And when I first, I mean, that must have been pretty recent. But on Bloor Street, right? Yeah.

Like between like Runnymede and Janeane yeah somewhere around there yeah and all those restaurants are on the uh they were on the like south side there was some light liquor license thing this was definitely on the south side and it was burn and ernie's was there i can't remember the name of it but okay and i worked there for probably that was probably right after rusty like that was probably pretty pretty soon after. That was probably pretty soon after one of my first jobs. Because I knew him, right? So when I needed a job again, I wasn't in a band anymore,

I needed a job. So I went back to my old boss. It's funny how back then, there was this urban legend in the hood that Ken from Rusty is working at one of the restaurants or whatever. And it took him until 2018 for his brother to have Ken in his basement

for him to be able to find out whether that was true or not. Isn't that bizarre? And you would still have the dreads and be pretty recognizable, too, at that point, I would think. I also worked as a busboy at, what was that place?

Velvet Underground. Oh, really? Seriously, like a year after being a Red Rusty. Well, the other one I heard at the time, I was working at the C&E at the time, and somebody said Ken from Rusty was, and I knew this wasn't true, because I knew enough that this was a different guy

who looked a bit like you, but Ken from Rusty was in Wayne's World. This is what I was told, okay? You know the Bohemian Rhapsody scene in the car, and the guy in the backseat who's going to retch, like the guy's going to puke or whatever? That that was Ken. And then if you look at that guy,

and you look at Ken at the time, pretty similar. But not the same, but similar. And then Ken retches, there's a little retching scene in the back seat of the car in the Empty Cell video, the second Empty Cell video. Okay, right, right. We're going to get to that. So let me do this right now then.

Let me give you guys some gifts for coming. Came all the way from Sudbury for Toronto, Mike. That's pretty cool. But of course, you are... We might as well tell people they should know that you're going to be at the Horseshoe Tavern tonight. We are. Cool. So you came for two reasons, but this one's the most important one. This is the biggie.

We might as well... Now that we're here, we might as well play tonight. You can play here, too, and then you can go to Horseshoe. Okay. There's a six... Oh, shit. There's three of you. You know what? John, there's another... Don't worry. I got one for you too because uh take that that was for uh do you guys ever watch uh jay and dan uh on tsn yes okay oh yeah so that's dan o'toole six pack he's coming over on uh what's this saturday monday he's coming over so yeah so i should tell everyone that's from great lakes brewer. That's our local craft brewery, and they kick ass.

Thank you. You'll love it. It's awesome. We do drink the beer. We do like beer. Good, because you're the first guest I think to score 18 cans. That's pretty good. They'll be gone by tonight. They'll be gone by the time we get back to the horseshoe for sound check. Pounding those things, throwing them out the window.

I'm surprised you haven't started already, but feel free. They're yours now. They're yours. John, I've got to hook you up with a pint glass. I have to get one out of a box for you, but everyone else has pint glasses in front of you, so you're going to need to pour that beer into something. So that pint glass

is yours. Excellent. Brian Gerstein. He's with propertyinthesix.com. What can I say about Brian? Brian's a fantastic guy, and I just want to urge everybody. I want to get the number right. So hold on. Let me find.

He's quite handsome in this photo. Yeah, everybody remarks on him. He's got great hair, right? Well, not like Elvis great hair, but yeah, it's pretty good. I mean, speaking as an old guy, yeah, he's got great hair. That's funny. Stern smile. He looks reputable.

He's got hair. Brian. He's really got the trendy real estate name, being the six, he's going for the younger demographic. Yeah, he wants the Drizzy fans to be calling him up. So here's how you call Brian. You've got to talk to Brian if you're looking to buy and or sell in the next six months. So Brian is

416-873-0292. I think he's going to help Steve Falls. Steve Falls is moving back. He's already moved back. So he's already bought a place. I don't think so. I don't think he's bought. Oh, he's probably in North York maybe. He's in the Annex, he told me. Okay.

Yeah, he's looking like in the Liberty Village area, I think. I'm not sure. But he's been talking to Brian about renting the condo or something. But if anybody's looking to buy and sell, you've got to talk to Brian. You know Brian's a good guy because he sponsors independent podcasts like this. That already puts him in an

exclusive club. So you got your beer. You got your pint glass. Ken, how many kids you got? Three. I have three kids. Ages again, please? 12 years old. Kobe is 12.

Kingston is 7. And Kinnicky is 5. They're all Ks? KKK. KKK, really? And me too. KKK. Okay, good.

Because I think Roger Clemens did that. I have memories of Roger Clemens because he's a strikeout. K is strikeout. KC, Kobe, and... Yeah, a lot of them. I knew that. Yeah. In fact, the Blue Jays drafted Casey, didn't they?

Maybe. I know he's playing for Canada Baseball. Maybe they did. No, the Blue Jays did draft him. They drafted one of his sons. I think the son, Casey. This is Nana Muscuri. Oh, nice.

The turnasol. And I play it because Camp Turnasol, if you have a child between the ages of 4 and 14, you've got to send them to French camp. Ken, this is a good idea for you. Well, my kids all go to French school. Sudbury. So are they in French school or French immersion?

French immersion. They can't speak a lick of French. No. My teens are in French immersion. They're fluent in French. Like, you immerse a kid in French, it happens. It's weird. Like, they won't speak French.

Like, when I go to my brothers in Michigan, my brothers are always like, it's so cool, your kids speak French, and they won't. They just refuse. But every now and then you'll be walking through the mall, and the teacher will be there. The teacher will start talking to them in French, and they get this weird sheepish French-talking face on, like they're in shame to be talking French.

But they speak French right in front of me. I'm like, whoa! I know what you mean. That's weird. It's very weird. But they will not speak French at all. My teens are the same way.

Yeah. And Jen, my wife, speaks French because we live in Sudbury and there's that prevalent French. Yeah, Jen surprised me. She can speak French.

She went through the whole French immersion thing too, right? So she always tries to get them to speak French, but they just won't. They don't think it's cool. I think that's what it is. They're going to, when they get older, they're going to realize that it's very cool,

but they don't think it's cool now. Well, Camp Tournesol makes it seem pretty freaking cool. Like if you have even a child in French immersion or a Francophone child or even a child of no French, they got a French camp for them. You got to go to campt.ca, check out the offerings, put your kid in French camp and use the promo code Mike when you book your camp

and that saves you some money and it lets Camp Ternusel know that their sponsoring of Toronto Mike is working. So, Ken, you got your work cut out for you. You got to send your kids to French camp.

I would. The promo code should be Monsieur Mike. No one can spell that though, all these awful anglophones. Actually, the funny thing is I always say go to cam camp. I would say. The promo code should be Monsieur Mike. No one can spell that though, all these awful anglophones. Actually, the funny thing is I always say go to campt.ca

because if I say go to campturnasol.com, who out there is going to be able to spell turnasol properly? You know what I mean? Just me, I think. What does turnasol mean? Sunflower.

Oh. Because you're from Montreal so you know all the French. But are you fluent in French? No. I grew up in the 70s and in the West Island which was basically fluent in French? No. I grew up in the 70s in the West Island, which was basically an English

fortress back then. And I also lived in Ontario, so I never learned French properly in school. So when I got back to Quebec, my French was way behind. And in that era, most of the Anglos just didn't learn French. It was just... It's very arrogant, and it's the reason why

everybody left. I was going to say, they all ended up here, right? Yeah, they all did. Do you guys know Biff Naked is now a Mimico girl? She moved after 30 years.

I know it's so random, but she was just here. That's what I'm saying. No. She was 30 years in Vancouver. Oh, I saw your thing with Biff. Yeah, yeah. So she now lives

pretty close to here. She's in Edmonton right now. Right now? Doing a concert? I think so. I saw it. You know, my wife, who you met, is from Edmonton. She's in Edmonton right now. Right now, doing a concert? I think so. You know, my wife, who you met, is from Edmonton. She's an Edmonton girl.

Why did you end up in Sudbury? My wife's from there. I met her here, but she's from there. I was in Toronto when I had Colby, and we realized very early on that it wasn't going to work out. We had to get somewhere. My kids have like three sets of grandparents there. I just moved there when my kid was a baby

and I just stayed. It's not far. You should mention too, I don't know if you know, but Ken's wife, Jen, is a rock and roller as well. She used to be in that 90's band, all female band Thule, you may recall. Thule.

Not jail, but Thule. The singer now plays bass in Eagles of Death Metal and also played with Courtney Love for a bit. Yeah, yeah, of course. But yeah. Very cool. Rock and roll family. So are your kids musical?

Not, they don't, I think that they are, they're just not, no one's picked it up yet. And I'm still thinking Kobe might, like he's always amazed me. He's got good rhythm. Remember we rehearsed one time when he came to rehearsal space and he sat down

and he could keep time on a drum kit, which I thought, not everybody can do that. So I think they could be, but they haven't taken up the interest yet. I don't think kids

really take up music until they... I didn't really get interested in music until I was 14, 15. I never... How many 10-year-olds play music? I don't... Unless they're in school and stuff. So we'll see. music till they like i didn't really get interested in music till i was 14 15 i never right how many 10 year olds play music i don't like unless they you know in school and stuff so we'll see but

they're probably gonna be great pitchers uh strikeout artists maybe that yeah yeah they're big into sports my kids are all into sports cool super into sports paytm canada we all pay bills that's one thing i have in common with rusty i think I think the main thing is we all have to pay bills. And it doesn't matter if it's your cell phone bill, tuition, property taxes, rent, whatever your bill, you can pay it easily with the Paytm Canada app. But here's the kicker. They'll reward you for bill payments. So you get points from Paytm for paying your bills.

And you can pay through the method of your choice. You can pay from your bank account, from your credit card, or through your Paytm Cash. Now, if you use your credit card, you might get points on your credit card. This is what I do. I get, what do you call it? I get President's Choice. I get money for no frills, basically,

because I use my President's Choice MasterCard. So I pay all my bills through Paytm Canada's app using my MasterCard. I get the points on that side. I get points from Paytm. When you make a bill payment, you use the promo code TRONOMIKE. They give you $10 towards

your next bill. So this all costs you nothing except it makes you money to use Paytm Canada. So go to Paytm Canada.ca download the app and use the promo code Toronto Mike and you get $10. $10. Who can say no to $10? Sounds good.

I can do that. You can do it right now. Actually, no joke. I've done it. I've got lots of them. I use my own promo code. Would you guys do a concert wearing a rusty t-shirt? Never, right? No, probably not. No, because that's uncool, right? You can't do that. I use my own promo code, which is the equivalent. Remember the picture in the studio of the

powder monkeys wearing their own shirts? But I've seen Frankie Vanna wearing a teenage head shirt, and it looked good. I think it depends on the context. Like, some people can get away with it. Ken, remind us what you did in, you mentioned you were on the set of the video. So you were working on movie sets and stuff?

I do everything. I'm a cook. I worked in movie sets. I used to be a, well, when, okay, when I worked on the Doughboys video, it was because my friend was directing it, and I was helping out. But I actually did work in the film business after Rusty.

I worked for an art director building sets. Okay. I did a lot of jobs. You guys were doing film and commercials mostly. Yeah, a lot of commercials. All right, so we're going to dive in here. Sponsors are taken care of. You guys are comfy.

If you get thirsty, you pop one open. It's all good. Nice, beautiful Saturday. I may begin. So was this jam here Wake Me? This song was on an EP before Fluke. Did you have an EP called Fluke before you had an album called Fluke?

No, it wasn't called anything. It was just as they say, eponymous. It was just the name. Just Rusty. There's bad intelligence eponymous. It was just the name. Okay. Just Rusty. There's bad intelligence out there. I think they're starting to call that EP Fluke, which is stupid. You can't call your EP Fluke and your album Fluke. That would be confusing, would it not?

It is. Yeah, it confused me. It was a demo tape that turned into an EP. We have two records out, and they're both the same. They have the same songs, and they're called the same thing. Right, right. It was called Rusty, five song EP. And how did that kind of translate into getting like a record deal?

Like what's that story? Well, in a way, we sort of had a record deal already in Canada because our manager ran a label called Handsome Boy Records. So that first EP came out on Handsome Boy. But after we made a video for this song, it happened to get played on 120 Minutes on MTV.

MTV. And so that got the American record companies all courting us. So we had a bit of a bidding war. And we were still on Handsome Boy in Canada, but in the States we ended up on Atlantic Records through the video for this song, basically. Which is a great song, let me say. This is a kick-ass song.

And it sounds as good today as ever. It's still a kick-ass rock song. Good on you guys. It's funny because the tremolo guitar on this. You know why what the first success of this song was the radio? Everyone talks about much music but the first thing that ever happened to Rusty when we this song was the radio. Everyone talks about much music, but the first thing that ever happened to Rusty

when we first formed was CFNY. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's where I heard it. They put the fucking shit up in this song. And it was indie label. And other radio too, like 89X in Detroit played this song 49 times a week at its peak. They were the biggest player of this tune. And we got U.S. Radio Airplay and New York and Texas and a bunch of places

off the tune. Throughout the 90s, I listened to 102.1. That was my station. Yeah, that's where I... Yes, there was the Much Music, which was great and all, but... It started on the radio. Yeah, they were our biggest supporter forever. Or whatever they are. 102.1 The Edge. Now what is it? It's still that.

It's still 102.1 The Edge. It still is. And now there's Indy 88 as well. Yeah. You'll still hear us occasionally on there. They'll pull one out. Golden oldies. Yeah, like a retro throwback or whatever. Yeah, I don't really listen to radio much, but people will tell me.

I heard you on this station. Indy 88, they got a little house in Liberty Village there where they record from. But it's good to have another kind of like a new rock station in town. At least there's two of them. I used to live in Liberty Village, but it wasn't Liberty Village then. Before it became trendy?

It was just a place that I lived in a warehouse. It's funny because I did an interview yesterday with Jess Samet from Sirius. Who's been on the show? Yeah, great guy. Because he was on the fan forever.

Yeah, and a big fan of ours. He comes to the horseshoe shows. He's been to a few of our shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mentioned the story because I was walking there, and of course, it brought me back to hanging out with Ken in those days when the place was just empty. You know, there was no people on the streets.

And I went at lunchtime, and there were thousands of people on the streets. And I was like, this is so weird. And I mentioned to Jeff that Ken and I, when we first got together, that was the neighborhood he lived in. In fact, he's like five doors down from where they're located. Is that building still there?

The building I live in? It's still there. They just painted it over and fixed it up, but it hasn't been torn down. I'll never forget when the tour bus came and parked out in front of it. I remember that, too. I got home from the bar. There was a tour bus parked in front of my shitty little studio. I've got to get on a bus.

Zamit's a junction guy. It's like a little Malta junction guy now, I think. Jeff Zamit, I think. Little Malta. Little Malta. There's a little Malta like Dundas and like

Runnymede and Dundas. I think when I heard that, my comment was, I don't even think Malta is all that big. You know what I heard? I don't know if it's true, but I heard there's more

Maltese in Toronto than in Malta. Is that possible? It is possible. Malta is emptying. You never know if it's true, but I heard there's more Maltese in Toronto than in Malta. Is that possible? It is possible. Malta is emptying. You never know. There are a bunch. I spent a winter in the junction,

and I did go to Little Malta just to see what it was all about. They do have really good little pastries and stuff. Pastitsies. Their big thing is called pastitsie. And they're delicious. My buddy Joe is Maltese, and he's always talking about the six. Get six and six.

Six with cheese, six without. Get the pastitsies. They got a Malta bake shop there, and they got a little Malta park, and that's pretty much it. You're done with your Little Malta. Yeah. That's funny. Oh, yeah. Get the pastitsis. They got a malta bake shop there, and they got a little malta park, and that's pretty much it. You're done with your little malta. Yeah, yeah. That's funny.

Oh, yeah, Sam is a good guy. You know, it's funny. You're a sports media guy, but he was the guy doing the producing of Landry and Stelic. You remember Landry and Stelic, the morning show on the Fan 590? Oh, that one I don't remember.

He was like, and he would do like, you remember there was a character called Vito from Woodbridge who was like a Leafs fan from Woodbridge. He would call in and be like, we should trade, like, I don't remember for some reason. He would do like, you remember, there was a character called Vito from Woodbridge who was like a Leafs fan from Woodbridge who would call in and be like, we should trade,

like I don't know, trade some shitty Leaf Blue Liner for like Crosby or something. Yeah, and that was him. So Zammett was, he would do the voice

of Vito from Woodbridge. He wasn't real. He wasn't real. Vito from Woodbridge was not real. Oh, that's funny. So how did you, can you tell me

really quickly about how, because I'm only going to do this for a few songs, but how Wake Me comes to be, like who writes it and how it came to be? That song was when I got there, these guys already had some bass lines and some sort of structures already starting, and Jim Moore was doing that bass line.

In Kensington Market. Yeah, in our little rehearsal space. And then the song built from there. I don't think all the parts were there, but the sound that you hear eventually, it didn't sound like that when we got into the studio and Chris Wardman, I was using all his guitar. From Chalk Circle.

Vital Signs. No, one of those bands. Not Chalk Circle. No. Vital Signs. No. One of those bands. I like that. Not Chalk Circle. Just before. Blue Peter. Blue Peter. You know what? He might have produced Chalk Circle.

He might have produced a lot of stuff, actually. I think you're right. Blue Peter, you're right. But I was using all his guitar stuff, and much like Ian did on this record, I would play and he would knob twiddle. And he was looking for the sound. So that sound, that tremolo sound,

comes totally from Chris Wardman just playing with a Vox AC30 amp and saying, play the riff, play the riff. It's killer, man. The sound is all him. I think it started, like you said, I think it started with bass. Yeah, it was a bass line.

Jim Moore bass line, yeah. I love it. But here, this jam here. Let's get it over here. Don't bring me down. Yeah, you're fucking nuts. Hey. Don't bring me down. You're so right fucking nuts. Hey. Don't bring me down.

You're so right. That's not allowed. It's perfect. Yellow. So, and this video I want to talk about too. So maybe talk to me because, you know, I'm only listening to shit in Canada. I don't know what's going on in the States. But this song might have been a bigger, might have been big in the States.

Correct me if I'm wrong. No. Awake Me Did was a have been big in the States? Correct me if I'm wrong. No. Wake Me Did was a much bigger single in the States. Misogyny was the second Atlantic single and it only really charted in Texas and a rather weird place. It didn't get as much traction as Wake Me but the video

was shot in LA so it made us sort of look like an American band. People got a bit confused when this video came out because of the LA location. Well talk about the video. This is Bruce LaBruce, right? So when we did our live stuff in that warehouse, was that in L.A.? Yeah, it was right on Sunset Boulevard.

I don't even remember that. Because a lot of the L.A. scenes are from the movie. Yeah, they all are. Yeah, yeah. But we were in L.A. when we did our thing because Bruce was down there. No, Hustler White. Yeah, we were.

But the actor and stuff, he also shot some stuff of the actor for the video too, didn't he? Yeah. That's not all footage from the movie. Some of it, the actor. No, and in fact, we don't remember this, but what happened was we set up to play, and Bruce was filming us,

and he had Tony Ward, the star from the video, who was going out. He's Madonna's ex-boyfriend. He was going out with Christine Applegate at the time. And they, Bruce and him, sat on a couch in front of us and then pawed each other and necked and groped each other. And we had to watch. So the whole time you see us, we're watching them grope each other.

I don't remember that. And none of that made it into the video. I shut that out. Yeah, you did shut it out. And it was funny. And we had to watch it. And I remember Tony Ward doing this one funny thing where he gets a call, and it's obviously Christine Applegate calling,

and he flips up his flip phone or whatever. He's like, hey, babe, how's it going? Yeah, whatever. I'm doing a video with these assholes. And he flips the phone back. He looks at us and goes, women. And he puts the phone away, and we're like, yeah, dude. He had a tattoo over his right nipple that said, Mr. Ward.

Yeah. He was a funny dude, man. It was very funny. It's the 90s, man. I don't even remember any of that. That and the Change Your Heart tour. Yeah, they were groping each other. I thought it was funny because I thought maybe Bruce was doing that to spark a certain thing in our performance.

But they didn't use that footage. So those who don't know, Bruce LaBruce, gay porn filmmaker. And the film that you're talking about, the film is called, I have it notes here, it's called The Hustler White. That's right. Yeah. And it's, yeah. And so this video, yeah, of course.

This is, of course, the second single from Fluke, you say? And we skipped it over, but. What's that? Third single. It was the second single in the U.S., yeah. Groovy Dead was the second single in Canada. Oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. This was the second single in the U.S., yeah. Groovy Dead was the second single in Canada. Oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. This was the second single in the U.S. Okay, so, yeah, right. Groovy Dead's

before... How do I remember that? That's weird that you would block out the loving. The man love. Yeah. And the change of heart tour, but I remember which single was which. Oh, I know this one. This doesn't sound like yellow.

I tell you, this production could use a spruce up. I got a shitty compressed audio. So, okay, this album, Fluke. This is a big deal for you guys. We got a lot of big hit singles off of Fluke. Did it make you some coin?

Absolutely not. I mean, not in any long-term real sense. I mean, Ken was a cook shortly thereafter, so we know it didn't make him... Oh, we were able to all quit our regular jobs and we became a full-time band. But that happened quite quickly with this band. It's like any business. While we were doing it, we didn't have to work, but we never made any money.

There's no money in rock and roll. So is it? There's no money in Canadian rock and roll? Only because I had this chat with Chris Murphy recently. I think U2 made money. Yeah, I heard U2 made money. I'm not sure, but I think they did.

But it sounds... I mean, even the Barenaked... Oh, they had the... Barenaked Ladies sound like they made some money, but they had to license a song to a big hit sitcom. So maybe...

Yeah. I mean, there's some difference. We did get a big fat record deal from Atlanta. It's like a business. It's not like you keep it. I think the most we got for one song was we sold the song Punk into a movie

with Chris Farley and David Spader and got 50 grand American for that. Black Sheep, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. There's 50 grand for a song. We made some money but you gotta split it how many ways right yeah

whatever like I said you're running a business you're not yeah you're not buying cars I mean

we never okay can I ask you do you think there's a perception amongst the fans maybe less so now like part of what I'm trying to do here

with episode you know I try to I call it real talk but I'm trying to like strip out the bullshit and kind of go straight talk, like this is the real deal. And I did this, like I mentioned, Chris Murphy was on recently and we kind of, you know,

people think Sloan, for example, we can count on our hands more than Canadian hit singles in our fingers. Meanwhile, you know, he kind of opened up about what kind of scratch he has and he's trying to live in Toronto and it's like, you're like, oh shit, like I thought I had a rough with my four kids and my ex-wife and my big mortgage or

whatever but this rock star yeah you know what i mean like so i don't find that hard to believe i mean but fans might expect after hearing so many hit singles from rusty on edge 102 and on much music they might expect you to like pull up in your bentley or something you know what i mean well they are wrong yeah that is just not how it works. They would be wrong to expect that. Not how it works. Do you have to break into states to be able to, not that you'd want to,

but to raise the standard to that level that people think rock stars live? Well, two things need to happen. One, you need to sell like a million records to start. And two, you have to be on a record company that's going to pay you for selling a million records. Like Meatloaf. He never got paid for a million records to start. And two, you have to be on a record company that's going to pay you for selling a million records. Like,

like Meatloaf, he never got paid for 27 million records past 85. They sued and sued and sued. And finally they all died. And then his kids won the, won the judgment and they felt bad about it. Cause like we wasted 20 years of suing this. Like a lot of times you just don't get paid.

So did you have, did you get fucked by your record company? We never got paid. That to me, that's, that's getting fucked by your record company? We never got paid. To me, that's getting fucked by your record company. We've never received one record royalty in our life. Wow. And I would pretty much be sure that we're certainly not the only people that that's happened to. But who owns Fluke?

Right now, who owns the whatever it's called, the master, whatever you mean. Handsome Boy still owns all our masters. In a way, man. But, you know, like, I'm sure, okay, so, guess who have money, probably, at one point? But they had American success. Yeah, but, and, you know, I'm sure, but there are, okay, let's think of Canadian success.

Like, I'm talking about bands that didn't. I bet you the hip have money. Yeah. I bet you they had money, but I would think they would be almost one of the only ones. I bet you Kim Mitchell doesn't have a lot of money. I bet you... Well, you know, for instance, who made a lot of money?

We had the same manager. The weaker, then. Well, no, the Crash Test Dummies, because Brad Roberts wrote all the songs himself. So he got 100% of everything they made, and they sold six, seven million records, right? So they actually made millions of dollars, I believe. I don't know what happened to it,

but they did make those millions at one point. There's better ways to make money, I think. Yeah, I mean, first of all, being rich is overrated, I'd say right now. I wouldn't know. I'd take it. Okay, so Fluke, you don't own Fluke, so you don't mind the fact that I stole Fluke.

No, no, in fact, I encourage you to do so. I have the CD I bought. I did buy it in the 90s, but it's in a crate somewhere. I don't have any of my CDs around anymore, but that's disappointing. Hey, I'm going to play another cut from Fluke, though, just before we stop talking about it, because I think this is a pretty little ditty.

Can we do a video for this? That's the one in Hamilton, no? That's the Hamilton six-minute baby. Did you ever see the video for this, Mike? I probably did. They didn't play it much. Much music encouraged us to push the envelope, and then we handed them a six-minute video

based on an episode of Cops, and they just didn't play it. After saying, come on, you guys' videos are so different. Give us more different. Can we call that banned? I like when we call things, when people don't play your music, you call it banned. Yeah, because it Give us more different. Can we call that banned? I like when we call things when people don't play your music, you call it banned. Yeah, because it makes people more interested.

No, but they did ban. They did ban the Bruce Lee. We were banned all over the US. Banned. I'm friends of a musician who had one hit, Custom. He had a big hit called Hey Mister. And Hey Mister, his big thing is to talk about how MTV banned Hey Mister. This is like his claim to fame because it had like a risque, a girl looked too young.

If you make someone tell you why they're not playing, they're going to give you a reason, right? Well, Much Music, though, did ban the video for the first video we made for a song called Oh No Joe. We made two. Yeah, I know Oh No Joe. And they banned it because it was Bruce LaBruce directed and it was set in a strip bar, the Edgewater Hotel in Parkdale. And that's why they banned it because it was Bruce LaBruce directed and it was set in a strip bar, the Edgewater Hotel in Parkdale. And that's why they banned it, because it was set in a strip bar. But you didn't have, like, there were no nipples.

No. No naked nipples. What album is that on? The second one, right? Softcore. I remember the big Empty Cell was the big first single. We made a lot of videos. Yeah, we made two for that.

There's two videos for Uno Joe, and they didn't play either. We made a second one, and then they didn't play it because they just didn't like it. But that sucks, because across the country, much music is a big deal. It was. I don't think it is.

It's not anymore, but it was at the time. In the 90s, much music airplay was a big deal in terms of who you want to see in concert and stuff. Oh, for sure. They did eventually play it.

They had a show called Too Much for Much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They played it once. It was like, here's the videos we can't play because they're just so terrible, you know. Oh, man.

But who wrote this song, California? I wrote the guitar riff at home. I can remember it because I was thinking I was just copying Wake Me with the second batch of songs after the EP, and I'm thinking, God, this song sounds a lot like Wake Me, but whatever, I brought it in, and you guys were like, no, it's fine.

It follows the loud, soft. Yeah, and it's off of a D, and I'm playing almost the same note thing. But that loud, soft was an important formula for us guys. Like, rate me or whatever. You know what I mean? It was important to have the slow and the... Yeah. Ken makes fun of it every time we play live.

He goes, remember the 90s when you went loud, soft, loud? It's Very dynamic. Yeah. I like it. It kind of lulls you into this false sense of calmness and then you're banging your head in a mosh pit all of a sudden. It's kind of fun. Did you write this lyric about anyone in particular, Ken? I never knew if it was or not. About Los Angeles.

Just like not someone you knew or something? No, it's about OJ. Some of it's about OJ. Is it? Okay. There you go. California, OJ. I thought for some reason I thought because someone gets shot, I was thinking that maybe you had known someone.

It really affected me one time I went to LA and I was driving and someone was telling, Garth was telling me a story about a couple people that were standing in a bus shelter and there was some shooting going on and they just sort of ricocheted off and fucking killed the guy standing there. Like that sort of friendly, or not friendly part, what do you call that? Like collateral,

or like when people are in their homes in these urban centers and people are shooting guns out, it's like on the wire. Yeah, the boy in the wire. You know that right there is the wire box set. I'm back on it. I'm on the second last season. I'm for my third run

through it. I love that show. I've done two runs. I'm about to do a third of my 16-year-old boy on Crave because they put it in HD on Crave TV. And that's the SD. If you come into King, you best not miss. Dude, I could do hours. I think it's the best show in the history of television. You're good police. He's real murder police.

I downloaded them all and then burned them onto discs, so I've had them forever. That's how we do. Hey, I don't judge, man. No judgment on this show. We all got to do what we got to do. All right, let me... That's a long extra note, though.

Yeah, it's like 30 seconds. I know. I was listening to it in the restaurant the other day and thinking, that's... More shots, can't hear anything. He has no idea what it is. He's really... He looks bored, eh?

So, John, tell me. John was in The Weaker Thans? That's a fucking great band. Founding member. What? I should know this shit. Weaker Thans are amazing. Like, yeah, big fan.

That's great stuff. Iggy thinks they should have been called the Stronger Thans. Stronger Thans. Yeah, that was a story from Rob Stefanuk when they played Riot Fest with The Replacements and Iggy was standing with Rob Stefanuk when they played Riot Fest with The Replacements and Iggy. Iggy was standing with Rob Stefanuk and he goes, the weaker thans, what kind of name is that? They should have gone with the stronger thans. You know, whenever I have on like a Vic Rauter, let's say Vic Rauter comes on, you know Vic Rauter, make the final.

He's like the voice of curling in this country, Vic Rauter. So he'll come on. I need a curling song. The weaker thans have a curling song, right? Like, not many bands have great curling songs. That's fucking Canadian.

I don't know that one. You don't know the weaker thans? Tournament of Hearts or whatever? Tournament of... Yeah, yeah, anyway. I don't know that song,

but it's on an album that I was not on. Oh, then skew that album. So it wasn't a good one then. John was on the early and iconic records that are, you know... The Seminole. John was on the early and iconic records that are... The Seminole.

I played on the first three records. I believe there's four studio records. Left and Leaving. Left and Leaving. All right, so Sophomoric. Sophomoric, am I saying that right? Or is it Sophomoric? How do you say that word?

Sophomoric. Sophomoric. Yeah. I don't know. I think that's an extra syllable. I think there's an extra O in there. I'm not's not Sophomore. I don't know. I think that's an extra syllable. I think there's an extra O in there. I'm not sure it belongs. What do I know?

What do I know? All right. So this is the follow-up. So you guys, you guys got a Juno nomination for Fluke, right? Did you go to the Junos? Yes. Where was it? Art Bergman stole our Juno.

He did, that bastard. It was in Hamilton and Gordon Lightfoot was actually, I'm not, yeah, Gordon Lightfoot was playing it. And he was sitting in front of us, so I had to act happy for him. But I really wasn't. I wanted to win. Where was it again? At Hamilton?

Where was it? It was at Hamilton. Was it not at Copts? Copts, no. My favorite is when people will use that to describe Rusty. Like, Juno nominated. Yeah. But they never actually won it. Well, funny, I thought our record was better than ours, actually.

It's not a competition. Although... But it is. Chris Wardman did produce both the records. But I kind of thought that Art deserved the Juno more than us as a career achievement award. I was kind of happy when he won it even though I was pissed that we didn't. Because I like Art and I, you know,

he had never won a Juno before and he was older than us and I don't know. So this empty cell, I remember, so. So this Empty Cell, I remember. So if my brother bought a CD, I didn't buy the same one. There's no point in having the two CDs in the house or whatever. So my younger brother, Ryan, bought this album. Empty Cell got a lot of much music play. I remember it was a big, big hit.

But it didn't sell as well as Fluke, right? But I'm still kind of getting over this factoid you dropped on me that I don't understand how. I don't understand. As a layman, I don't understand how you got no money off of Fluke on me that I don't understand as a layman. I don't understand how you got no money off of Fluke. I don't understand. Just leave it alone. I don't want to talk about it. It sold about... You know, Sophomore didn't sell that. I think Sophomore sold about

$35 and Fluke sold about $50. So it didn't sell a ton less, but obviously it's trending in the wrong direction. That's why we broke up. We can't keep going. If we keep going it's just going to be zero. That's why we broke up. We can't keep going. If we keep going, it's just going to be zero. That third one sold about 25. Yeah, the next one was going to be 15 and 10.

It's going the wrong way. So this album, okay. And you mentioned there was another Bruce LaBruce video. You said there's two videos for... Yeah, for Oh No Joe, which never did anything. Oh, for Oh No Joe. It didn't chart. Actually, no, sorry. There's two videos for... Empty Cell Joe which never did anything didn't chart there's actually

no sorry there's two videos for Empty Cell Empty Cell as well and the reason was Much Music wanted to keep playing the song

but they didn't want to keep playing the same video so Bruce or whoever said we'll make you a different video with the

same song which is what we did someone with Ken driving around in the car pretending he's

Alanis Morissette doing the Alanis Morissette thing. Ironic. Ironic. Moronic. That's funny. I listen to that song because there's a station always at my work trailer that plays that song a lot.

You know how songs get listed? That ironic song. A lot of the things she's listing aren't irony. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I don't think she knows what ironic is. It's like rain on your wedding. There's nothing ironic about rain on your wedding day. That's just bad luck. Bad luck, exactly.

You're missing that humor part. There's got to be another twist. Rain on your wedding day when you're marrying a meteorologist or something who said it was going to be sunny. I don't know. You're allergic to water or something. Okay. Or a free ride when you're already there. There's nothing ironic about a free ride.

There's nothing ironic about that. It's the way you needed it earlier. That's just bad luck. It's all bad luck. They should call it bad luck, not ironic. Alanis made money. Oh, yeah. I guess.

I guess she did. I don't know. That was a big album. That album came out when Rusty was out, no? When we were touring the States, that was the peak of that. We heard her everywhere we went. She was huge. Jagged little pill were, that was the peak of that. We just, we heard her everywhere we went. It was, she was huge.

Jagged little pill. She probably made some money off that. Although, like I say, it depends what, if you got paid or not. Some record companies pay you, some don't.

But didn't, you couldn't sue this? Like, I don't understand why, so your record company obviously violated some agreement not paying you. Like, I'm missing something,

right? I think what people don't realize about the record industry is that it's always been the most corrupt thing on earth. Like, it's just always functioned like this. They've always stolen, always taken.

Meatloaf is the best example. He sold 27 million records. And they stopped paying him in 85 for royalties. And he had to go get lawyers and then it took 20 years to get paid. Then he died. How much do you think you're... What kind of money are you owed by...

We don't know. You don't have to. It's enough. We don't know. We don't want to... I don't want to talk about it. You don't have to. That's enough. Yeah, it's not... We're moving on. We have a new record. Yeah, you have a new record.

So here, let's get to it. We certainly never sold... I think you're only losing out if you get sold millions and millions of records. We did not make a ton of money selling records, unfortunately. You guys put an album on the Wicked Awesome movie Hardcore Logo.

Is that... There's a Rusty song on Hardcore Logo? How did that work? Oh, yes. What they did is they made an album, a tribute album to Hardcore Logo, right? Oh, a tribute. Right, okay. So then they basically, yeah. The guy who wrote the book, Michael Turner,

he had written all the lyrics for a set of fictitious songs. So they gave us two sets of lyrics, and we came up with the music for those lyrics. We resubmitted them. They kept one of them. The second one that we gave them that they didn't keep was called Son of a Bitch to the Core, so we rewrote that song as It's Christmastime and I'm Poor.

So it became a song on the third album. I think the con... Yeah. Their lyrics and our music. The concept was supposed to be, if Hardcore Logo was a real band, then these Canadian bands were going to do songs by them.

And who else did it? Lots of people were on that. Yeah, everyone from the, in fact, the Headstones ended up doing the other one we did, Son of a Bitch to the Core. The weird thing is, is I've known Michael Turner for years and years and years because of a connection from an old bass player and he in the intro

the forward to the book Hardcore Logo, he thanks that old band of mine that no one's ever heard of, Luther Victim. Oh wow. Very cool. Weird connection. He's a cool guy. Good writer. Very cool. Okay, so this is the album. Out of their heads, this is the single

comes off it and Scott, you and I were talking privately that you hear that this might be the album of Rusty's that holds up the best. Seems to be the one that everyone likes the most years afterwards, or that's what people tell me anyway. And if I had to pick for myself, I might say this is my favorite as well.

Why does Rusty break up in 2000? I've got to make up a good reason. I don't know. We got to do the truth here, man. I don't know, though. I don't. It's hard to remember.

Okay. I asked that. Well, there was a whole bunch of reasons, but from my perspective, I had to go to drug rehab. Okay. Is that right?

Okay. Oh, yeah. That's a good reason. I was pretty messed up. I like that reason. I was doing a lot of That's very 90s like that reason. I was doing a lot of... That's very 90s rock of you. I was doing a lot of bad things, and I just...

I really... By the end of Rusty, I was essentially a homeless crack addict, so I really needed some time away from the whole deal. But you... I was going to say clean and sober, but you got the six-pack in front of you, but you're drug-free. I do drink the beer, and I do smoke the weed these days, but I stay away from all the other bad stuff. And good for you.

So you actually went into a facility to do this? Oh, I went to a number of facilities. Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, good for you. It took me about three or four tries to get her. But yeah, but there was a variety of reasons, like just everything from not as, you know, we weren't as successful to like

record company problems to like lots of things yeah you know what i think like i i don't know like i i think it it to me at one point i remember this that it started to get to be like a job like we kind of like anything like uh you're going to play because that's how you make your money. That's how you live. I just think it got tired of doing it that way. And whatever. I'm sure if we would have put out a record, our third record, we had huge hits on it.

That might have made us stay together. I wouldn't say that we broke up for one reason. No, it was a variety of stuff. A variety of things. We just got over it. And you know, it's very hard to keep, even though we were a band, oddly enough,

that did get along, we never fought. It was like the easiest going band of all time. You know, after five years of kind of doing that, you kind of, you do sort of,

it's hard to keep a band together for a long time. It's amazing bands who last 10, 15, 20 years. I'm amazed by it. When you do a tour, like, are you in a, is there a van?

We don't really do that anymore. No, but when you did it in the late 90s? All different ways. We started in the van and then as soon as we got a record deal, we moved up to the tour buses

because Atlanta was paying for them. And then we stayed in tour buses pretty well until the end, although occasionally near the end, we'd have to jump back into a van. Depends on the logistics of it all.

Steve from Acid Test, I asked him because they broke up well before you, they broke up in the mid-90s, I think, and then they only got back together now,

okay? But they said, well, I said, why did you break up? And it was, they could not afford to continue. Like, it was costing them

too much money to hit the road, essentially, so. Well, I remember what it, in 95, when we were opening for Collective Soul, we did it nine months straight

and we were making $150 a show to open for them and it cost us, including the bus, the driver, and everything, $10,000 a week

to keep us on tour. Yeah, like simple math, right? We were losing Atlantic that amount of money per week. I think they put... But Ken doesn't want to keep talking about this, so I've got to be careful here.

No, no, but for instance, Atlantic probably dropped, put $250,000 into keeping us on tour and then didn't sell any records so they didn't make their money back. So we actually took them for quite a bit of dough. Is it $150 each for the band to share? No, $150 a show is what we were making.

Well, opening bands don't get paid. Yeah, you're just an opening band getting broken by the record company. So you do it for exposure, essentially, because the Collective Soul fans will discover you and then they'll go to your gigs and buy your albums and shit like that. Okay, wow. Christian rock. They're Christian rock. Collective Soul? will discover you, and then they'll go to your gigs and buy your albums and shit like that. Okay, wow.

Christian rock. They're Christian rock. Collective Soul? Kind of. Wasn't that Creed? They had Christian ethics. They were very nice people. They had a song called Shine that was a big hit.

The singer and the guitar player were brothers, and their father was a preacher. I remember that. Speaking of hits, they had a bunch of hits. I remember Shine was the first one, I think. And that was like the song of the summer,

I think, whenever that came out. It was a big deal. That was when Ed, I think Ed still recorded that by himself. That's before he actually recruited his band,

and he recorded that in his home, in his basement. Oh, wow. Okay, so you break, but for a variety of reasons, you break up in 2000, and you go your separate ways.

I guess Ken, I guess at some point ends up in Sudbury. Yep. But Scott, you stay here? I stay here. After you get cleaned up? After I get cleaned up. Until 2007, I moved back to Montreal until about 2010

and then I came, went out to West for one winter and then came here for the reunion and I've been here ever since. And you guys, I guess you're reunited, you reunited in 2011. This is when Rusty gets back together. So tell me then, how does you guys have gone your separate ways, doing your own thing.

How does the comeback of Rusty, what sparks that? Should we tell him? Tell me the truth. I don't know. What do you mean? It's really, it's John Kastner who gets us back together from the Doughboys because he's booking, not CMW,

the North by Northeast. And he contacts us all because there's logistics. He has to get Jim from the UK. I'm in the West Coast. Ken's in... Sudbury. You're in Sudbury by then, eh?

Yeah. Yeah. And John Lally was in Toronto. But yeah, John Kastner made it happen. He's like, you guys want to do it? And we all agreed and we did it. And John Lally was in Toronto. But yeah, John Castor made it happen. He's like, you guys want to do it? And we all agreed and we did it. And you know what? I think it was fun.

That's what I'm kind of hoping that's the answer. Like, it sounds like it'd be fun to be in Rusty, money aside. Well, yeah, it was fun because I think we, I don't, I mean, there was obviously, I guess you've thought about getting back together or playing a show or reuniting, whatever you want to call it. But I don't think I realized that it was going to be fun.

And then we did it and it was just fun. And that's kind of why we do it now. It's just got to be this natural high, just being on the stage and performing and doing your sets like in front of your fans. That's got to be an amazing feeling. And it might be different now because your expectations are different. And now we're just kind of, we all have our lives and everybody does their own thing. But we just, I do it because it's fun. That very first, I mean, it's funny because we did the outdoor show at Dundas Square.

And it was sort of, you know, it's a big audience. It was kind of lukewarm. So I was kind of, wasn't what I was expecting because we used to play in front of big audiences. But then the next night we played the El Macombo. And it's still the best show we've ever done in terms of just the total love in. You know why?

Because it was all your people. Yeah, you could hear them singing the vocals louder than Ken coming out of the monitors and it was like people all over the stage. It was just a mess

and it was totally joyful and a blast. It was fun. Yeah, it was a blast. All right, let's talk about this new record. So this is, and again,

we talked about this earlier in the episode. I can't play singles off the new record because we're respecting the wishes of the, whoever's mixing this. Is it the producer? Yeah. Who's doing this mixing? The producer.

Mr. Blurton. Ian Blurton. So let me play what I can play here. Hold on. Let me play this and let's talk about it. Okay. Give me a moment because I don't, where is it? There you are.

Okay. Let's see if this plays here. Oh, halo. Standby. Technical difficulty. Here we go, I think. You can't hear it. Okay, that's enough.

We're in trouble. Well, I think we have permission to play this much because we're fine. That's all we got. I like that version. The new version? I do. Cool. I think the problem with demos, as we and Scotty were talking about today,

you live with the demos for, we live with some of these demos for two years, so they become the correct version in your brain. And then when you re-record them, they didn't to you. That's what happens to me. Like, you don't like them. You didn't like them. Yeah. I don't know if I did or didn't, but I find it's weird.

And even Jen does it because we'll listen. Or even the kids. They'll be like, I don't like this as much as your other recording of it. Because you fall in love with that version. That's how you think it should be. It's just like, yeah. So it's like, I always say it to the kids. I'm like, well, wait till you hear this version as many times as that version.

And then you can make a judgment call. It's tough to, you're right. Once you think this is the way a song should be. And I think that's a lot of why I always make the joke in the studio about Ian not wanting to hear about the demos, but they're always like that. Producers don't, I guess they shouldn't, right?

A producer doesn't care how you record it last time. He wants to do it his way, right? It's all about him, right? With another producer. So yeah, we made a new record. What's it called? The album? Go fig yourself. I don't know. I like the Dogs of Canada. So yeah, we made a new record. What's it called, the album? Go Fig Yourself. I don't know. I like the dogs of Canada.

But you know what? I realize, remember when the word dog was always referred to like men that chased women? A dog, you're a dog. But people don't really use that anymore. It's more of a hip-hop term. American Idol, the judge on American Idol called everybody dog. You're a dog. But people don't really use that anymore. They don't... It's more of a hip-hop term. American Idol, the judge on American Idol called everybody dog.

He's ruined dog for all of us. But I really like... I don't know why I like that, but I like that. We don't know what it's called. Originally it was going to be called Now Is When and then we got onto this thing called Dogs of Canada and then The Dogs of Canada. But you know what? We're still frying up the final title

because we don't have to have it yet. What do you want to call it, John? Sutton? Frying. Frying? Fry it up. Fish fry. So we don't actually have a name yet.

When do you plan to release this album to us? June the 12th is the digital release that comes out on pledge. You're going to come up with a title soon then. Yeah, very soon. We're going to be brainstorming. You're writing like artwork and shit, right? That's all on the way. And in fact, the title sort of came from part of the artwork, but we'll see what

happens there still. So June 12th. So you got back in the, I guess, reuniting for these shows got you the kind of spark going into the studio and releasing a new album. I think, okay, so it is funny when you, even to hear you say we reunited in 2011.

That's a long fucking time ago. Yeah, seven years ago. We're definitely, we've been together longer this time than we were last time. Exactly. But I think what, you know, I mean, every band wants to make records. You know, that's what you want to do.

You want to write new songs. And then we were playing the shows once or twice a year because we loved it. It was fun. But you start to feel like You want to write new songs. And then we were playing the shows once or twice a year because we loved it. It was fun. But you start to feel like you're doing kind of a retro thing. You know, it's all about retro. And I thought, what excuse could we? And everybody loves to, you know, people say,

do you want to play here? Do you want to go tour here, do this? You kind of need a reason to do it. And I think that's why we wanted to make a record. And then just for me personally, just like playing live again, the first time we went in the studio a couple years ago to start doing demos and writing songs, I remember how much I liked doing that too, you know?

Are you prepared though? Now, let me warn you as a fan, okay? So I had this talk of Ron Hawkins because they don't let Ron Hawkins create the playlists when Lois did a little play because he goes, he just plays stuff he thinks is good and it's often the new stuff. And then the fans want Shakespeare my butt.

So are you prepared for the fans to want Fluke? This new album, which I've not heard, might be the greatest artistry to come out of you guys of all time, but your fans are going to want to hear Fluke. Without a doubt. You've got to mix it up. We always play our old hits.

We play all of them. We're not the type of band who denies the audience the hits. Screw you guys. We're playing the new album. But for us, the new stuff is a bit more fun to play because we've really ridden those old songs forever. So it is more exciting for us to do newer stuff. But it's fun to have people react well to a song.

So playing the hits, it's, you know, you get a reaction, so. Yeah. Is there a radio station in this country that will play the new album? I often wonder, like, how does a band like you get your new, and Maestro Fresh West, of all people,

like, I had this chat with him. He's putting out new music. There he is. He signed that when he was here, and he's putting out new stuff, and it's actually really good, but the only song you might hear from Maestro on the radio is Let Your Backbone Slide from 1989. And it doesn't really matter what his

new single sounds like or how good it is. I was talking to someone about this. I mean, I hear that you hire a radio tracker and send it out there. And some people have success, some don't. But I think it's like the old days of radio. People don't really realize. But you had to pay to be on radio before, right? You ever heard the story about the number, we were talking about this in the studio, the number 19 chart, number 19 spot on the British charts was always for sale.

You could buy it if you went right to 19. And then if it went up from there, you had a hit. And, but you know, we used to pay probably a radio guy, a thousand dollars a week to go service our singles to radio. So you got to have someone out there working your stuff and that costs money.

So if you want a radio hit, you've got to pay somebody to deliver it or talk it up or do... There's a business side to that, you know? Yeah, I've always been curious why some really good stuff never caught on. Like, to go back a bit, I know we don't want to talk too much more about Fluke,

but just to go back, do you ever wonder, why wouldn't these singles from Fluke that to my ears, they don't sound Canadian, they just sound like really good rock. And I listen to American rock, British rock, Canadian rock. It just sounded kick-ass.

Forget the fact you're from here. It didn't matter to me. It was great rock. Why doesn't that have the same legs in the States? I never understood why bands like you and Sloan and some bands like that never cracked the stage. Well, we started off well. Wake Me did pretty well in certain areas and it was a promising beginning.

But again, I think maybe, I think what happened with us was Atlantic. We were on a, an imprint, smaller version of the label. And I don't think maybe they had their radio shit together by the time we got, cause we,

they, or they did well with some stuff, but you know, I, like I say, I think radio, especially in the States, it requires more than a good song.

Who knows, yeah. Who knows? I mean, it's like a... You've got to be right in the heart of it. Maybe that's it. You know, who knows? Why does some stuff do really well when some doesn't? Yeah, it is hard to say.

You could list millions of songs and musicians that are good, but no one's ever heard of, right? Why, indeed. Yeah, some men's never get to the radio. Like I was talking to Ian with Change of Heart stuff, and it's funny because he never got a glimpse of radio in his whole career, and he was kind of like, you guys did really well on radio. And then I kept thinking, Change of Heart never got a sniff, you know? Yeah, exactly.

If you knew the answer to that, you could do really well, right? And because you got the horseshoe tonight. The shoe. We do. Which is cool. I actually, I recently did a 70th anniversary

horseshoe episode in which I had a guy, he wrote a book. There's a guy who wrote a book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, I saw some excerpts, yeah. Yeah, and we just did

a whole like 90 minutes on the 10 most important horseshoe events or whatever. We always play there, but we do love it. It's kind of, you know,

it's our home way from home these days. Those checkerboard floors. Do you ever cross paths with the hip in all your... Yeah. We were telling this story. Who was it? Milwaukee.

Summerfest. Summerfest in Milwaukee. The only time we ever played with them, Summerfest in Milwaukee in 95 on stage 13 of 15 stages, and it was us, them, and a Cajun band in the middle of the afternoon. And they only had about 100 people there for the hip. Well, they were expats, right? They were probably Canadians that lived nearby.

100 Canadians in Milwaukee, yeah. It was... And that's the only time we ever played with the hip, though, unfortunately. They were really nice to us, and I'm a fan. Oh, yeah. Good to hear that. For sure. Any final thoughts?

Because there are more tour dates, so should we send them to a website or something for Beyond the Tonight? We do have a website. It's rustyband.ca, but there's no, we're going to, we're really concentrated

on getting all the finishing stuff on the record, and if we do do any shows, it'll be like in the fall. Yeah. Except for this

horseshoe stuff. We're going to get the record out and then think about promoting it down the road a bit, or a couple months from now, anyway. Ken, when do you have to return to Sudbury?

Tomorrow morning. Oh, that's a whirlwind. I'm going to fly back tomorrow morning. It's only a 40-minute flight. Oh, that's good. I couldn't even finish my coffee. And the first time I flew down, I don't usually fly. I usually drive.

But if I come alone, I realize that it's almost okay to fly. It's not that much more money. And the first time I flew, they gave you a beer. And they had to take it away from me because I didn't finish it. The flight's too quick. And I live close enough to the island airport that Ken walks from the airport over to my house. So it's quite handy. I would think from the time I get out of my car to the time I'm walking up his stairs is an hour.

Isn't that amazing? That is actually mind-blowing. I mean, I always never liked the idea of the island airport. I can see the planes taking off and everything, but talk about incredibly handy. Maybe I could get some sort of endorsement from Porter Air. What a phenomenal airline. Land in the heart of the Billy. We should talk to Porter Air.

The Billy Bishop Airport is so convenient, Porter Air. Can you walk to the airport? Can you walk to the airport? You're still going to take a ferry. It's a tunnel. Oh, yeah. That's so great. That's a new development.

They took away the ferry. Remember, they used to have a 10-minute ferry. No, the ferry's still there. I was ordering my coffee at a Roman era. There's a little coffee shop on this side, in the city side. And it reminded me, because I'd forgotten about the ferry, but it's still there. And I watched it. Seriously.

Yeah, it's the shortest ferry ride ever. Across the street. It's like your house to the guy across the street. The ferry is almost long enough to reach. Yeah. The ferry is almost like a bridge. It just goes, reach, reach, reach is almost long enough to reach. Yeah. Like the ferry is almost like a bridge. It just goes

reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach. Guys, honestly, Ken, Scott, John. John, sorry I didn't have a microphone for you, but you seem like the strong silent type

in my humble, from what I've experienced. But we do, let's get a photo, all four of us, we'll see if my wife can take it. We won't have to do

a selfie, but. You can pre-order our record on Pledge still, eh? Okay, tell us all that important stuff. Yeah. Go to Pledge, what is it? I don't have to do a selfie. You can pre-order our record on Pledge still, eh? Okay, tell us all that important stuff. Yeah, go to Pledge. It's PledgeMusic.com.

You know what, I'll move it down. I got more questions, I just realized. It's PledgeMusic.com backslash Rusty backslash projects. Because you crowdfunded

this album. Yeah. We did. So tell me how, okay, let's do that part. I can't believe I didn't bring that up. Okay, so I remember

when you started tweeting, I was like, oh, like Rusty's tweeting and they're doing something. Yeah, that was near the end of the I didn't bring that up. I remember when you started tweeting, I was like, oh, Rusty's tweeting. They're doing something. That was near the end of the campaign. I got two months of it, actually. We finally got to Twitter. I know. You should start at Twitter.

Don't you know how this works? I love Twitter. We had a long Facebook page and it had a fair amount of traction, so that's what we mostly used. This is kind of exciting though, so you're going to put out an album and you crowdfunded it,

so like what was your target goal? Like how many dollars did you crowdfund? The whole amount. What is the whole amount? That's none of your concern. You notice they don't, not the IRS.

You notice they don't, they don't put the number up there, have you noticed that? Oh, you know, I didn't know it was a secret. Okay, you don't have to. But you were able to pay for this guy who's mixing and all the studio time. We reached our goal.

We're at 103% of goal. Oh, wow. That's excellent. Good for you. It's a very cool thing. I mean, at the beginning, because it's so new, to me, it just didn't seem right. It seemed kind of like panhandling. It does feel like, because I have a Patreon account.

Now that I've done it, I kind of get it more. It's so cool. I guess it's very grassroots. I like it. The thing about it is I realize you're kind of pre-selling. That's what you're doing. You're just saying, here, buy it now and we'll give it to you when it's done. Everybody's getting something. But it's a nice optional volunteer

taxation, if you will. If you support this and this band and this, you're not driving in Bentleys and stuff. If we can help with this to create the art, you'll enjoy the art. There's even some stuff in there, although we didn't get a lot of that, but there's stuff if you want

to come backstage and do... There's little experience things that we didn't sell. It turns out most people just want either the record or the t-shirt. Those are the's little experience things that we didn't sell. It turns out most people just want either the record or the t-shirt. Yeah, those are the two big ones. But we did get

some people who were like Kenny's handwritten lyrics or we got some VIP backstage stuff and people bought some of that stuff too because there's

some super fans who sort of want to do stuff with the band. And if you have the scratch, like there are guys out there,

they're big rusty fans, they're about my age and they happen to be sitting on a few hundred thousand in some silly account that does nothing. You know, come on, what are they going to do with that money? This is where they want to put the money. They're about my age and they happen to be sitting on a few hundred thousand in some silly account that does nothing. What are they going to do with that money? This is where they want

to put the money. We're very fortunate. We had a couple of executive producer ones which were like bigger ticket items that people chipped in. People were very grateful. Gene Simmons sells like a... He'll come to your house with his box set for like a hundred thousand or something ridiculous

like that. You can fly from Sudbury and hand deliver this thing. I'll give him $100,000 to stay the fuck away from me. All right. Thank you so much, guys. Honestly, this was a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for making this trek here. That's awesome.

That's amazing. Cool. And that brings us to the end of our 340th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Rusty on Twitter is Canrock Rusty. Canrock Rusty. Fucking love Canrock.

Fucking love Rusty, too. That's great. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. This is the most beer I've given up. Yo, Great Lakes. We love you now, too. Thank you, Great Lakes. Porter Air.

Propertyinthe6.com is at Raptors Devotee. Enjoy your pint glasses, guys. Paytm is at Paytm Canada. And Camp Turnasol is at Camp Turnasol. Turnasol. See you all next week. My guest will be, who is it? Jay and Dan O'Toole.

Dan O'Toole from TSN. Cool. Cool. Thanks. Thanks. in Cause my UI check has just come in Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of

rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the snow wants me today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away Cause everything is

Rosy and green Well you've been under my skin For more than eight years