Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Sam Grosso: Toronto Mike'd #592

Episode Date: March 2, 2020

Mike chats with Sam Grosso, a man who has owned several of this city’s live music venues, from Graffiti’s to the El Mocambo to the Cadillac Lounge. Banjo Dunc joins the party.

Welcome to episode 592 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. The Keitner Group.

They love helping buyers find their dream home. Text TORONTOMIKE, Mike one word to 59559. And some guy named Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. One of the most celebrated roots, country, bluegrass bands, and Canadian music history. I'm Mike. From TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is a man who has owned several of this city's live music venues from Graffiti's

to the El Macombo to the Cadillac Lounge Sam Grosso welcome Sam hello hello and with you Banjo Dunk it was my idea

I thought you'd be a great guest yeah take full credit so and with you, Banjo Dunk. It was my idea. I thought you'd be a great guest. Yeah, take full credit. So Banjo Dunk is a big fan of yours, Sam, and he's like, you got to have Sam Grosso on. So I do a little homework, and it turns out I agree with Dunk that this would be an interesting conversation. So thank you, Dunk, for the hookup,

and thank you, Sam, for making the trek. Thanks for having me here. Now, a quick hello and happy birthday to an FOTM who turns 80 years old today. Sam, do you know David Marsden? Yeah, David. 80 years old today. Wow.

I was chatting with Banjo Dunk earlier about, because Banjo Dunk is a little older than us, not much, but a little older. You remember Dave Mickey,

right? I do. And that's, that's on 590 back in, what is that, late 50s? And yeah,

so he's a big deal. I mean, to me, he's the spirit of radio, CFNY guy. Absolutely, yeah.

Maybe you remember him from Chum FM when David Marsden was there with Pete and Gates and everybody, but 80 years old today. So happy birthday, David Marsden. I got a little tip from Banjo Dunk here. He said I should play a little Bruce.

You can't go wrong with the boss. What kind of music, and maybe it's this, I don't know, but Sam, what kind of music do you love? Like, what do you listen to in your own time? On my drive in, I actually had Outlaw Radio on, and I heard one of my dear friends on the station there, Wanda Jackson. Okay, so this is like, is it country and western? I heard one of my dear friends on the station there, Wanda Jackson. Okay.

So this is like, is it country and western? What do you got on it? Well, just side by side, you got outlaw country, and then you got Willie's Roadhouse. So I think Willie's Roadhouse is a bit more country western, and then outlaw is more like Steve Earle and all those crazy cats that Waylon Jennings and Johnny Cash.

The Highwaymen. Yeah, yeah. I rented a car that had Sirius XM and I was listening to that station and it was guest hosted. That show was guest hosted

by Steve Earle and I was listening to it and listening to his stories and the music he was playing and I absolutely loved it, man. Yeah, it's a great station for sure. But are you a big Springsteen guy? I'm a big Springsteen fan, yeah.

I have a really wide range of interests in music. I listen to a lot of different things. Dunk, do you like Springsteen? Over the years, I knew that Sam was a big Springsteen fan, and when Whiskey Jack was playing monthly at the Cadillac Lounge, I wanted to confess to him that I didn't get Springsteen. But since then, I have found my way. And now there is some material that really has touched me.

And I do get them now. But there was a long time they were, I just didn't get them. It's not for everybody. But actually, you know what? There's a great CD called Pickin' on Springsteen, and it's all banjo. Oh, it's awful. Have you heard it? Oh, it's awful.

Heard it? He plays on that record. No, I do not. I will not. No. I will not confess to that. Well, there you go. There's some honesty as well. Where is your banjo? Like, you don't bring it everywhere? Oh, no. I'm not, I'm not even going to bring it to the, to the big event in June.

I don't think we're going to, is that right? I think we're just going to bring a ukulele. Okay. Okay. Okay. And the big event in June being a TMLX six. Yeah.

Okay. Just to clarify, cause you've got a lot of big events, but the zoomer show, why don't you, do you want to plug it now or just plug it now and then let us know, will you bring your banjo to that? Oh yeah, no, no.

So I thought it would be kind of perfect because I've been advertising on Mike's show here for the last, I don't know, couple of months or more. Three months. Three months, wow. We just started month four. Right. And this is March, first episode of March.

So I've been talking to everybody about the big event coming up on April 16th, which is the seventh annual, my annual Stompin' Tom birthday celebration, which is certainly much more than Stompin' Tom. It's become kind of a seventh annual Canadian music celebration built around our connection to Stompin' Tom. And I thought it would be kind of appropriate to talk about that with you here, Sam, because two of the six,

the previous six, were at the Cadillac Lounge, two of the best. The very second one we did in 2015, my special guest, I had contacted the Right Honorable Adrienne Clarkson a few months before, and she was a big fan and a friend of the Connors family. So she said, I'd love to help with this. In fact, she even performed a song, The Martin Hartwell Story, it's called. But as soon as I had Adrian on board, all of a sudden, I had the front page of the Toronto Star. I had a Here and Now, an interview with Here and Now.

Right. So all of a sudden, I got all this interest. And the gig was going to be at Sam's Club. Now, that was the year where I think you had some health issues and you weren't there that night, but I wanted to let you know, yeah, you were laid up, but I want to let you know that you couldn't have fit another person in that

club. If you had tried, I'd never seen the club so packed. In fact, at one point you, you're, you're, I was on the phone with you and you were tearing your hair out and said,

maybe you should have had this somewhere else. But that was a good, that was a good distance movie. So we're going to get to know the career of Sam, basically, Grosso. But maybe this is a good time for you to tell us, because you told me you're a big Sam Grosso fan. So what is it about Sam that got you such a fan? Well, Douglas John Cameron, who Sam knows knows very well is my musical partner with banjo

duncan doogie and dunn and that's this guy i'm pointing that's that's him over there mona with the children he's the guy so he and i were chatting about sound because both of us have separately a relationship musical relationship with sam in the past whereby his band the louisiana snowblowers would play the cadillac Lounge quite often. And there was a long period in my 44-year keeping Whiskey Jack alive kind of thing. I always needed a gig. I always needed something for the band to look forward to. And somewhere along the line, I auditioned for Sam and he said, do you want a regular thing here?

And so I don't know how many years that went on, but that kept the band alive until we could kind of get our act together and move on to what we're doing now, which is the tribute to Stompin' Tom. Now, I'm not the only one. The Bebop Cowboys is another one. Steve Briggs and Howard Willett. I'm sure Sam could add to that, but

Douglas and I wanted to point out a couple of things. The most important thing was unlike the other clubs in the city sam paid he paid money and actual money i'm good for you but it wasn't that's why i'm out of business i'll take i'll take full responsibility in fact in fact douglas and i should have bought the club no some venues don't pay oh then none of them pay see i don't know this this is we're getting the real talk here.

Oh, no, it's the door, man. We pass the jug. Sam would give us a guarantee, so that made sure our parking was paid for. But beyond that, we'd just take the jug out in the audience, and that's where we'd make our secrets go in. For tips and... Yeah. It's kind of like an Austin kind of thing,

you know, what they do in Nashville and Austin, where they just pass the jug around, and the more people that come out, the better the band is. Is there anybody in Townsend that you know of that offers a guarantee? I don't know of any if there are. It's all door stuff now and the band's

supposed to bring in... It's usually a percentage of the door usually, you know. And there might be, I don't know, there might be some more similar... And spoiler, sorry, go ahead, Sam. Yeah, I was just going to see there's some delicious beer in front of me. Do you want to crack one open? Well, it's happy hour somewhere, right?

Oh, no. Well, first of all, it's probably happy hour here. What time is it? Let me see here. Now, you're taking that with you. That's a six pack of fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. But I can have one here if I want.

Oh, my God, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is Lake Effect. In fact, if you had one now, I might, oh, I love the Lake Effect. I almost, do I have Lake Effect in the fridge upstairs? No, no, this is cool. This is great. Oh, yeah, because my basement's freezing, yeah, yeah. This is a lake effect. In fact, if you had one now, I might... Oh, I love the lake effect. I almost... Do I have lake effect in the fridge upstairs? No, no, this is cool. This is great. Oh, yeah, because my basement's freezing, so you're right.

Viewers, listen to this. Oh, doesn't that sound delicious? I really enjoy the lake effect. Now, I'm a, you know, I have a couple of those lake effects, and that's it for me. Like, they're 7 point something percent. Like, I can't... Yeah. Delicious.

But it's fantastic i'll be getting some of that from my home fridge for sure you're taking home the six-pack thank you great lakes beer uh fantastic partners they help fuel the real talk here good people too uh and enjoy that sam and uh you're you're a true like grosso that is an italian name am i right that's it's very much ital. But are you born here? I was born here. Yeah. My parents came over from Southern Italy in 1954.

And my dad came over in 55. So you can't be made, right? Because Goodfellas taught me you got to be a true Sicilian. Do I have my... No, no. Is that not true? First of all, there's no such thing as the mafia, right? Is that right?

Because I watch a lot of movies. I understand this. No, you got to be, your father has to be Italian. Your father has to be 100% Italian. You could be born in the States or Canada or whatever, and you could be a made man. So you're okay. I'm a bit of a mob historian, but we can talk about that. I would do a whole episode on that.

Is it really fiction or are you just saying that to, you know, wink, wink? Wink, wink. Okay. Because every once in a while, I'll still read about like some guy gets gunned down in Hamilton in his like driveway. And they're like, oh, he was like, you know, whatever. And part of this family. And that it's still like, it's still there. It's still there.

It's nothing to be proud of or it's nothing to be really glamorized, but it's just a bunch of crazy people killing each other, you know? Well, there's a lot of that going around. So I bring it up only because you, I'm going to guess like, you know, true authentic Italian food. Like this is something.

Oh yeah, yeah. Okay, because I'm going to, what I'm going to do, and I'm being serious here before you scoff here. I have a frozen lasagna in my freezer, courtesy of Palma Pasta, the Petrucci family. The mom and dad came from Italy.

They brought their recipes with them. This is a family-run business still, and it is the best Italian food you can buy in a store. Okay. And I'm going to give you a lasagna. You're going to, at your convenience, you can cook that up, and you're going to, at your convenience, you know, you can cook that up and you're going to have,

just report back, like an honest review. Oh, I will. Yeah, definitely. From a guy named Grosso. I love lasagna. So don't leave without it. And Grosso, Grosso means big. So Grosso, Salvatore Grosso is my proper name. But, you know, you guys can call me Sam.

But Grosso means big, and I guess because we eat a lot of carbs and pasta. Would you be a meat lasagna guy or a vegetarian lasagna guy? I'm definitely the meat. Okay, I got a meat one for you there. Grosso. I thought I was being so smart by going Grosso. My instinct was to go Grosso, and I'm like, no, it's Grosso.

It is Grosso, but you got to roll those R's, right? Grosso and I'm like, no, it's Grosso. It is Grosso, but you know, you've got to rule those R's, right? Grosso. Yeah. But it's Grosso. I already spent hours this morning with a Grosso. So I didn't want to confuse myself because Peter Grosso was here and we put together his Down the Stretch podcast.

So you're now Sam Grosso. So from Grosso to Grosso and Fremlin, you're neither. So you're now Sam Grosso. So from Gros to Grosso. And Fremlin, you're neither. So you're okay though. Now you got your lasagna from Palma Pasta. You got your beer from Great Lakes Brewery. Here's a sticker. I know you want one of these.

So that's a Toronto Mike sticker, like a little souvenir from your visit. That's courtesy of stickeru.com. When you're back in business, because we're going to get to this. You said you're unemployed right now. I's courtesy of stickeru.com. When you're back in business, because we're going to get to this, like you said you're unemployed right now. I'm looking for a gig. So do you don't currently,

do you currently own a venue that plays live music? I don't, no. I have put on a few shows in the past few months, which is what I'm concentrating on doing now is just putting on shows and presenting them, promoting them.

And I'm actually having a lot of fun with that because it's a lot less stress than running a venue day in and day out and the bricks and the mortar and the whole bit. So it's a different vibe, and I'm really, really digging it. Well, when you, because I feel like it's in your blood. At some point, you're going to own something else, and then you're going to need stickers, man, stickers for the venue. You're going to sticker you.com for your

stickers. It's probably the only reason I want to open up a venue is just to put that sticker on the beer fridge. He gets it. He gets it. Well, he's going to need beer.

We got the Great Lakes beer. Oh, for sure. He's going to need a band. Man, we got the whole, this is a one stop. let's just,

let's just do it here. You know what? This is kind of funny. This is like a big alert here. I'm actually opening a music venue on my property above my horse stables in my hay loft. I got this crazy loft area above the stables

and I'm going to turn it into a live music venue that's going to fit about a hundred people. And now because you're telling me that you have this kind of property with these lofts and these stables, there's no way this is in Toronto. No, no.

I, I, I moved out, uh, and Duncan knows this. I moved out of Toronto six years ago and then I was commuting on the weekends to work. But, uh, six years ago I moved out to Prince Edward County. Do you ever bump into Steve Anthony? Yes, I do. Oh, so I'm trying to think of FOTMs from out there,

but Steve Anthony's there. I was chatting with him this morning. And of course, Bernie Finkelstein's out there. Yeah. I, you know what? I don't know Bernie, but I know Steve and, you know, I've gone to his place and checked out his new B&B that he's opening up. That's absolutely terrific.

And, but yeah, Bernie, I don't know him. I'd like to know him. new B&B that he's opening up that's absolutely terrific. But yeah, Bernie, I don't know him. I'd like to know him. Bernie, if you're listening, let's have a drink. You know, Bernie, listen, I can hook you up with Bernie. He's got artists in his stable that could play at your productions. I love that. I love that.

We'll get some Bruce Colburn. What a synergy we got here. I'm so glad you're here. Now, if you do want to move back to Toronto, okay, Sam, this is what you're going to do. You're going to text Toronto Mike one word to 59559. Austin Keitner from the Keitner Group will help you with up and coming neighborhoods and give you pricing and just take care of you.

So if you have any interest in any Toronto real estate buying and or selling, Austin's your guy. Toronto Mike to 59559. So that's if you ever get the itch to return to the six here. Now, tell me, you talked about your dad coming from Italy. I've learned that your dad

is the original popcorn man. Now, educate all of us now about your dad and what that means to be the original popcorn man. Right. My dad, Franco. Yeah. We just had a little bit of birthday cake at my house last night because he would have

been 89 yesterday. And so we had a bit of a party. Happy birthday. Yeah. I named my first boy, called him Francesco after my dad. So my dad was just, you know, he was a very cool guy. He came over from Italy and he did some odd jobs uh trying to find his way he didn't speak the language and uh good immigrant story came over worked hard

uh never collected a penny off of unemployment or any other welfare or whatever that it just worked and i kind of created his own job uh with um you know they call it a push cart and he got a license from the city. And when he first started, he sold popcorn and peanuts and chestnuts in the winter, candy apples. And he did that for about, I want to say 35 years and raised the family. So five of us.

Amazing. And he did really, really well. It was, it was cash business. And yeah. Like today, if you're going to own your property anyways,

and you're going to raise a family in Toronto, you'd have to sell the, like the popcorn would be like $500 a bag. I think. I think when he started, it was a nickel. It was a nickel a bag. And people,

people love them. They still talk about them. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to get the city to name an alleyway after him, an alleyway that was in between the two streets that we lived on. And, yeah. Did he have a corner? Was there some place where you knew you could find him?

Yeah, he was mostly outside the ROM. And, yeah, just outside the ROM he would be working. And sometimes he'd go down to the gardens for the hockey games and the superintendent would get mad because all the smoke would enter into the building from the chestnut roaster. I love that smell, by the way. Give me that smell of that roasting chestnuts on a cold winter day. We roast chestnuts at my house.

Chestnuts roasting. Get your banjo out. I got a song in me here. Yeah, so that's what my dad did and he just loved it and he really enjoyed going to work and meeting people and actually someone wrote on my

timeline just the other day, Al Rose, good, good friend of mine. He wrote how he goes to see a lot of live music and people talk about the Cadillac and how much they miss it and how much they miss Sam and the Hobbit. And I was like, wow, how appropriate that he's sending me this message on my dad's birthday

because my dad was the same type of person. People loved him, you know? So it kind of made me feel good and brought a little tear to my eye, you know? Amazing. Now you guys, you and your dad sort of like become characters like weaved into the fabric of the

city. Like it's sort of what makes a city interesting. We are characters, that's for sure. Dunk's a character too. I'm sorry I had to get the headphones on. You had to take your hat off. No, I'm good with it. I feel like I've stripped out your trademark there.

But anytime you have a question for Sam, you just chime right in. You're my co-host this episode. Okay, man. Okay, good. Now, Kensington Market, is that where you grew up? Yeah, that's where I grew up. So my mom and dad bought their first house at 39 Wales, just by the park there in Kensington Market.

And I grew up in the market. And it was a great place to grow up because there was a I grew up in the market. And it was a great place to grow up because there was a lot of action in the market. And I guess at that time, it was known as the Jewish market because there was a lot of Jewish shopkeepers. And then they kind of retired, and it became kind of a real ethnic European market with a lot of Portuguese shopkeepers.

And it was just a really cool place to grow up and see a lot of Portuguese shopkeepers. And it was just a really cool place to grow up and see a lot of different things happening. Well, I mean, when I think of cool parts of the city, I still got that ranked rather high, that Kensington Market's like a cool neck of the woods, wouldn't you say? It's maybe one of the last real uncolored neighborhoods. It's kind of like still pretty funky,

even when I was back in the fifties and sixties. When I come into the city, I just find myself drawn there. I, I just got to go, I got to get a beef patty or I got to buy some bread or I just got to soak it in, you know, no matter what time of year it is, I got to go. And, uh, you know, graffiti is not there, but I ran graffiti for a long time. I opened up that in 1995. And I sold it in 2003, I believe, to my manager. And he kept it going for a long time. But yeah, that was my first business. Kensington's.

I got more Kensington's questions for you here. Girl, you're looking fine tonight. And every guy has got you here beside. A little Jeff Healy as we talk about graffitis here. So Jeff would drop in, right? How did you know that? I was just about to say that, but how did you know that? Did you think I played this by coincidence? Did you think that was, oh, what a coincidence? Wow, Jeff Healy, yeah. Jeff Healy's a big country

Western fan, and he would come in on Tuesday nights to see the Kensington Hillbillies, which now they're called the Parkdale Rebels, but back then they were called the Kensington Hillbillies, and Jeff would come in, and he'd sit in with the band, and he just loved them.

I love my Jeff Healy stories. I had the drummer, Tom Stevens, I believe his name is. He came in and just, I said, Tom, just 90 minutes, tell me Jeff Healy stories. Not far from here is his burial place. It's at Park Lawn Cemetery. Oh, right on.

And it's not too far from here. And there's a park not too far from there. So in the West End, there's a park named after the guy too. And I've told this story before but I live my life under the belief I have no idea if it's true but I was told by a trustworthy source that I'm related to Jeff Healy so that was

added incentive for me to but another FOTM I got to shout out not that Jeff's an FOTM but another FOTM I have to shout out is Justin Rutledge. Recent guest of the show and longtime friend of my brother

Steve. And he's another guy who would just kind of pop in and perform at the, do you remember Justin Rutledge? Of course, yeah. He was just a quiet, quiet guy. He'd come in for the open stages and he's just the nicest guy you want to meet and so talented and he would come in for the open stages and and bust out a couple songs

and years later I'm walking in London and I'm passing an HMV store in London, England, and there is this big giant display in the front window of a brand-new record, Justin Rutledge. I'm like, what the heck is going on here, Justin? He's made it big time. He's in London, England. Well, just think of the talent that's gone through your stages. Oh, my gosh.

We've had so many surprises. Did Ron Sexsmith ever play? Ron Sexsmith? He called me up one time and he wanted to book this band in that he was part of and it was some type of Hawaiian band.

I don't even know what that but it was Hawaiian music and Ron was in the band and so I said, yeah, sure, let's do it. Yeah, it was great. Is this at Kensington's? No, no and Ron was in the band and so I said, yeah, sure, you know, let's do it. Yeah, it was great. This is at Kensington's?

No, no, this was at the Cadillac. Okay, we're going to get to the Cadillac for sure but at Kensington's, Serena Ryder, there's another name, right, of somebody who would

play there. Yeah, she'd come by for sure. So talk to Kate, talk to me as if I know nothing which will be very easy to do because I know nothing but like you just literally just one day you decided you'd

buy a place and have live music? What made you open up Gansington? Yeah, that's a good story. That's a good story for sure. My brother, my older brother, wanted to open he didn't want to open. He wanted to buy this existing bar in Kensington Market at the time. It was called The Greeks.

I'm like, you are nuts. that place is like a dive of the dives it's like it shares the sewer with the fish store next door it reeks there's like some sketchy characters in there i'm like no no i'm not doing that and we were doing some renovations we you know we had a little you know renovation company and we're renovating this fruit store in the market and out all the time we were negotiating to buy this, this bar. And I was like, I didn't want to do it. And then my dad gave me hell. He goes, oh, you know, you should go into business with your brother. You know, he doesn't know what he's doing and you do. And I'm like,

wait a minute, he's older than I am. He's supposed to be teaching. He goes, no, no, he doesn't know anything. You got to go into business with him so i said all right all right i'll do it so anyway that negotiation fell through and we ended up not buying the bar but as we were doing these renovations at this fruit store i looked out the window i said you know what if you want to open up a bar look at that place there it's for lease why don't we just lease the place we'll renovate it and we'll turn it into a bar because it was some abandoned clothing store or something like that. And that's what we did. So we turned that into graffitis.

And what made you, you know, it's one thing to open a bar. It's another thing to be a live music venue. Like, where did that come from? Yeah, well, I've always loved live music. My first concert, I went to Maple Leaf Gardens. My two sisters, my older sisters, would have to look Leaf Gardens. My two sisters, my older sisters would have to look after me and my parents were always working. And so they worked at the snack bars at Maple Leaf Gardens. And they said, well, you got to come with us tonight because we have to work

and we're also babysitting you. So I was like 10 years old and I'm like, all right, you know, where are we going? We're going to Maple Leaf Gardens. Great, I got to watch a Maple Leaf game. No, no, no, no. There's a concert tonight. I'm like, okay, great. You right, where are we going? We're going to Maple Leaf Gardens. I'm like, great, I got to watch the Maple Leaf game. No, no, no, no, there's a concert tonight. I'm like, okay, great. What are we going to see, Kiss or something? No, no, it's the Toronto, it's the Policeman's Association Ball. I'm like, what the heck is that?

So they said, listen, we're going to sit you in the penalty box and we'll come and check up on you. We'll bring you some popcorn and you'll be, you know, you'll be looked after. So I'm 10 years old and I'm watching this concert and on stage is Barbara

Mandrell, um, the good brothers, right? The headliner. Oh, I think George Jones, but he didn't show up George Jones at that show.

But the headliner was, uh, this, you know, every time I tell the story, it gives me like the shivers because it was it was it was life-changing uh so the headliner for this concert was conway twitty wow and he hits the stage and the women they went crazy it was insane and i'm

sitting there at 10 years old and this guy's up on stage with jet black hair and the women. And then I was like, what is going on here? And he was just so good. And so the stage presence that he had was just electrifying. And as I got older and I listened to his songs, I'm like, wait a minute. These are all very dirty, suggestive songs. Like I'm lying here with Linda on my my mind you've never been this far before you know all these and just it was it was it was magic just magic and um i think three days later i did see

kiss on their dynasty tour in 1979 so i saw queen i saw all these amazing bands so i was just i was just really taken by the live music experience. And then now you're working with your brother. So you rented Kensington's. Did you ever own Kensington's? We just leased the space. So yeah, we leased the space. And above was Kensington Sound that at that time had already been there for 20 years. Basie.

Basie was the owner of Kensington Sound. And he was all up in arms. He goes, oh, I can't believe there's going to be like a live music folk bar or whatever it's going to be. And we're upstairs trying to record music. And he was all like, really, I don't know how this is going to work and this and that, the vibrations and this and that.

We worked it out. And there's actually a record out called live at graffitis with five bands and we took all the microphones and all the instruments and we ran the cables up to the studio and we recorded this amazing record amazing amazing now basically what is it the next move so is it that you that you leave Graffiti's for the Cadillac Lounge? Is that the move? I owned both at the same time. Oh, so you did eventually own the Graffiti's because you were renting Graffiti's

and then you... No, no, well, we built Graffiti's from scratch. Okay, okay, okay, okay. But you didn't own the building. No, no, no. Okay, I'm with you now. I'm catching up to you now. So you never owned the building. I was 28 years old, Duncan. I no money i hear you i had to borrow 500 bucks from my mom just to go get some beer i hope you paid it back i paid her back yes

so would you mind talking just a little bit about the business climate and at that time obviously there was money to be made opening a club in kensington market oh you know what the first few years of graffitis was just amazing i had my mom and my aunt in the back kitchen making homemade food like lasagna and pasta and pizza and you know just it was amazing so we were busy in the daytime and i would work basically from 11 o'clock in the morning until one o'clock in the morning wow and uh so in the morning. Wow. And so in the daytime, it was this like place where people would come in to get a veal sandwich or some pasta

and it was, and they loved that there was two Italian nonnas in the kitchen making the food. They were like, you can't get better than that. And they were authentic.

You can't get better than that. You know, like they're going to make the best food, right? And what year is this? That was 1995. Right. And the rice balls, right? The famous graffiti rice balls.

You did your research. You did your research. I went to the James Lipton School of Interviewing. Always do your own research. Oh, my God, yeah. People still talk about those rice balls. And so, yeah. So in the daytime, it was that kind of vibe

where it was lunch and very, very busy and the school groups coming in and coming in to get pizza. And then at night, you know, Kensington is very different. It's like, it's exploding in the daytime, but then at nighttime it gets to be very,

very spooky and very dark. And, you know, it's like, it's a different place. So we were booking some music and we're booking some, uh, some acoustic acts. And then we booked some bands and, uh're booking some uh some acoustic acts and then we

booked some bands and uh and uh it was busy it was it was busy and people would come in and we never ever had a cover charge and we would just pay the bands a percentage or how you know well we did or they would maybe would sell their own tickets and And it was great. It was just a really cool vibe. I remember one time we had, I'm forgetting his name right now, but he was a great, great music writer for the Toronto Star that passed away a few years ago. Duncan, help me out here.

Duncan, this one's, man, come on, you come up with this. He was from Australia. Oh, yeah, yeah. Duncan's going to Google it. I'll search it. He was such a gentle, big, giant man, but just a sweetheart of a guy. And he would do these gigs at Graffiti's.

And so he says to me... It's not Quill, right? Greg Quill. Greg Quill. That's it. That's right. We didn't need Google, everybody. It came out of my head.

Okay. Greg Quill would play there quite often. And he was just and he was great. And I guess he had some type of career in Australia, came up here and became a writer, but he still wanted to do these gigs. So he says, you know, he's doing this show, and he loved it.

He just loved the little vibe that we had going on there. And he goes, oh, tonight we got a special guest. I'm like, okay, great. So he didn't tell me who it was. And then I see this van pull up halfway through Greg's set, and this guy comes out, and I'm like, okay, great. So he didn't tell me who it was. And then I see this van pull up halfway through Greg's set. And this guy comes out. And I'm like, no, it's not. It's Garth Hudson.

And we had this stand-up piano in the bar that someone donated to us. And there is Garth Hudson playing the piano. And I can't even tell you how many VHS copies of The Last Waltz we wore out. But I was like, that was cool. Did you, Duncan, did you listen to the Rick Hodge episode of Toronto Mountain? I'm in the process. I'm in the middle of it now.

Okay, because we talk a lot about The Last Waltz and what it meant to him. And he picked a couple of those jams, just speaking of the band. Okay, so would you say there's money in it? Like is this something you do as a labor of love or can you actually make money? There's no money.

Not even in 1995? It was, like, I guess when you say money, there's, you can... Feed your family. If you worked it behind the bar and you kept your costs down, you could make a living like just a regular living you know and uh it was working with the city a friendly exercise or did they

um put up roadblocks or it wasn't too bad i remember i i got i got pinched one time by the by the liquor inspectors when i first opened up you know we i had no idea there's no course that you take to open up the bar right so we're you know it's like two months into it and this gentleman comes in and he flashes his badge and he's a liquor inspector and he goes so inspection time i'm like all right take a look you know i bought everything legally i bought you know you go so when you're a bar owner you have to go to the liquor store and buy your booze but you have to tell them that you're a bar owner, you have to go to the liquor store and buy your booze, but you have to tell them that you're buying it under license. Right. You need to have some kind of a license.

Yeah. You have your license, but the booze that you're buying has to be registered with your license. Gotcha. You know, so, which we did all the time, you know, we was always on the up and up, but my sister-in-law at the time wanted to make this cake, this Tita Misu cake. And one of the ingredients is Kahlua. So she kept on saying that she wanted it. I said, well, listen, you keep on talking.

Just make the cake. You know, make the cake. So she had brought in this bottle of Kahlua to make the cake. And the cake never got made. But she left the bottle of Kahlua in the kitchen underneath some counter or whatever. And he comes in and he finds this bottle of Kahlua.

He goes, well, what's this? I'm like, it's a bottle of Kahlua. What's it look like? You know what? He goes, well, did you buy it under license? And my detriment, I'm like the most honest guy. Like I, to my detriment, I'm honest. I'm like, yeah, that's a bottle of Kahlua.

He goes, where'd you get it? I said, well, my sister-in-law brought it from home. He goes, well, did she buy it at the liquor store I go? I don't know. Did she? He goes, no. She bought it in Mexico because the tag is a different tag on it, right? I'm like, yeah, so we're just going to make a cake with it.

He goes, no, no, that's not allowed. So he confiscates the bottle it was like a big giant crime with this bottle i said listen there's a bottle of kalua on the shelf that we you know put it into coffee that we bought right right right right so he uh took it and next thing you know i get a letter from the from the liquor board that they're gonna suspend my no they're gonna revoke my license not board that they're going to suspend my, no, they're going to revoke my license. Not even suspend. They're going to revoke my license. And I had to hire a lawyer

and this and that. I had to go to this hearing. This is where it helps to be, if you were connected, okay? Cousin Felita would make one visit to that guy's house and you would be off the hook. Yeah.

Okay. I ended up getting 14-day suspension. I got suspended from selling booze for 14 days. Most expensive cake you've ever made. No, the cake never got made! Do you think there's an underground relationship between

these inspectors and some venues? Is this... Oh, this is real talk here. Are you suggesting that it's not all in the up-and-up? That you can be some dirty... Maybe not in 1995, but certainly 1955 or 65. Are you saying if you leave an envelope for your health and safety inspector or whatever?

You know that saying, it's not what you know, it's who you know? That goes a long way. That goes a long way. So I never had... Well, you know what? The Cadillac is gone, so I'll tell this crazy story.

Yeah. I, um, I had purchased the building, uh, uh, to the West of the Cadillac and I, um, I was going to build this patio. I was going to extend the patio and I didn't own the building that the Cadillac was in. So I said to my landlords, you know, would you mind if I take down the concrete wall in the backyard? I'm going to expand it and I'm going to build this patio. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. And, uh, just long as you're saying, sign this document and if something happens, you got to put the wall back up. I'm like, yeah, no problem. Uh, so I took down the wall and we built this huge patio. Um, and, um, and it took me forever to get licensed. But now I ran out of money because I had spent all the money on building the deck.

Right. And you can't serve unless you have that area licensed. So I took my chances, right? Right. Fuck it. I'm going to serve the booze, and we're busy, and I had to buy furniture and this and that. So I'm back there on a Monday night

playing poker with my buddies in the back patio. And the bartender comes up to me. She goes, oh, this is a liquor inspector that wants to talk to you. I said, yeah, send him over. So he comes over. He goes, hey, what's going on here? I said, we're playing poker.

There's no money on the table. We're just playing with chips and stuff. He goes, no. No, he goes, no. No, he goes, I'm talking about this. And he points to the patio. I said, oh, it's a brand new patio that we built. He goes, no, he goes, no. No, he goes, I'm talking about this. And he points to the patio. I said, oh, brand new patio that we built. He goes, is it licensed?

I said, nah, not really. But, you know, we're in the process. He goes, let's see your liquor license. So I show him the liquor license. And it states that it's not. Like, it's not that area. And I'm like, oh, my God. He goes, okay, we're going to leave.

And we're going to come back in a half an hour and that rope better be back up and there can't be any alcohol on that side whatsoever i'm like yeah no problem so i kicked everybody out and you you could be on the patio you just can't add any alcohol no alcohol on the patio so the next day i call this buddy of mine at the uh at the uh police station. I said, listen, you know, I got to tell you what happened last night. He goes, what did you do? I said, yeah, yeah.

I said, I have to. I got no money left. I got to make my payroll. And, you know, he goes, okay, you get one get out of jail card for free. That's it. I said, yeah, yeah. Just do what you got to do. So he, I never heard anything back. And eight months later i got my liquor license i knew this is how it worked right duncan we knew this

right thank you for uh that's that's why nobody wants to do this for a living it's too stressful it's awful it's an awful awful business and if if you're young and you're full of energy do it i'm not gonna say don't do it but um being 50 years old with four kids and a wife it's it was a very hard business at the end to uh to keep going yeah you could only feed three of them i didn't eat i left the food for them the trick is you gotta change up the one who doesn't get to eat every day you gotta rotate I didn't eat. I left the food for them. The trick is you got to change up the one who doesn't get to eat every day. You got to rotate that. That's the secret I've learned.

Okay. So, oh my goodness. I knew that's how it worked. And now I've, it's, why do you think, why do you think I've spent so many years sprinkling FOTM throughout this city? It's so that I, you always got to know somebody. You got to know somebody for sure.

This is my strategy. And he was a great, I can't mention know somebody. You got to know somebody for sure. This is my strategy. Yeah. And he was a great, I can't mention his name. No, don't mention his name. He was a great contact to have and yeah,

he really helped me out of that jam. No, thank you for not mentioning his name because he did you a solid and I don't want to get him in trouble. Okay. So, this is about 2000.

2000 is the year when you take possession of the Cadillac Lounge. It was known as Lynx, right? That's right, yeah. And tell me about what I'm curious about, because I remember Parkdale in 2000, but tell the listeners,

because the listeners who might be familiar with that stretch today, what was Parkdale like in 2000? It was pretty sketchy. I told my friends that I'm going to be opening up this other venue, Parkdale like in like 2000? It was pretty sketchy. I told my friends that I'm going to be opening up this other venue in Parkdale. And they said, Parkdale, are you crazy? It's full of crackheads and hookers. And I'm like, well, you know, the rent's cheap.

So I didn't have to buy any business per se. I knew this really sketchy real estate agent, and he had told me that he had- Who, Dunk? Not me. No, no, not Duncan. I can be sketchy, but I wasn't that one. This sketchy guy told me he owned the building, and he was selling it to me like,

oh, it's a turnkey operation, turnkey operation. Oh, right. So when I went in there i'm like there's nothing everything here is like it's a tavern it's like their catchphrase was that we have tvs that was her catchphrase on the oh color tvs right because yeah it's like when you go to those motels we have color tvs so but again the rent was cheap and i said you know what i'm gonna roll the dice here and i'm going to to open up this venue. And while I had graffiti,

so I had a little bit of- So you didn't get rid of graffitis right away. You decided to run two places. Right, right. So I did that and I hired a liquor consultant and we put the application in and he says to me,

he goes, that address is never going to get licensed. It's been shut down by the liquor board and the neighborhood watch committee and the BIA. I'm like, what are you talking about? I've already signed the five-year lease. He goes, you got to be prepared to sell a lot of coffee and soda pops because they don't want that place licensed.

I'm like, now you're telling me this? He goes, well, you signed the lease before you hired me. So I'm like, now you're telling me this? He goes, well, you signed the lease before you hired me. So I'm like, what do I got to do? He goes, you got to go talk to the police, 14th Division at that time. You got to go talk to the BIA. So it doesn't matter if it's new management. It's just that that address is in the system.

It was a sketchy neighborhood and there was a lot of drug activity happening. And the guy that owned the building was sent to jail for um for uh bringing in uh um women from these eastern block trafficking is that is that like human trafficking human trafficking yeah uh the strip joints right okay and he was a heroin dealer and he was just a sketchy dude, right? He was also mayor of Parkdale, right? No, he was not the mayor. But he, so he ended up going to jail and then all his properties were what they call proceeds of crime.

So they got reverted back to the bank. And so that's how that sketchy real estate agent had access to the building. And so where was I going with this? Well, basically, okay. So it's basically in 2000. This is, and tell just for people who don't know, Queen and what? Like where are we at here?

Queen and Dufferin, just west of Dufferin. Yeah. A shout out though. I'm going to do a shout out now to Danny Graves of the Watchmen. He's running that motel bar. Very, very cool bar. Yeah. They sell Great Lakes's running that motel bar. Very, very cool bar. They sell Great Lakes beer at the motel bar. They do and he's a big Winnipeg Jets fan.

Yeah, that's where you go if you want to watch a Jets game. That's why the bar is always empty. I had a meeting with the BIA and I talked to them. I'm like, listen, I got this venue and I signed this lease but I'm having a hard time getting their liquor license. She says, well, we don't want that place to reopen because it was such a, um,

just such a bad place. Uh, I said, yeah, but you know, it's going to be owner operated. And, um, I got a venue now in Kensington market. And she goes, Oh, what venue is that? I'm like, Oh, it's graffitis bar and grill. She goes, Oh, I love graffitis. I love the matinees, the Saturday matinees. I'm like, well well i'm going to be bringing that vibe so she wrote a nice letter to the agco and um and she really helped me out i ended up getting my liquor license two days before i was ready to open up so oh wow actually worked out really nice now there were other clubs along that strip that had license and live entertainment as well no not no nothing at all i think maybe mesros was yeah mesros mesros was doing a little bit of a live music,

but not, but not every night. They weren't, they weren't doing music. And when we opened up, we had live music every single night. So we were doing like nine, 10 shows a week.

Right. Okay. So now that we've got you, uh, where did the name come from? Uh, Cadillac lounge. Right.

So, um, I had a contest, uh, uh, with my, with all my, uh,

um, customers at Graffiti's. Let's name the new venue. And so everybody had all these kind of crazy names. And actually, the first name I actually registered was Sammy's Love Shack. It was going to be a Hawaiian theme. Duncan's looking at me like, are you freaking kidding me? He's like, you made the right choice. I was just wondering what your wife might have thought of that.

Well, yeah, that was a whole other issue. But we changed it. So someone came up with the name Cadillac Ranch because of the Springsteen connection. And I thought, yeah, that's pretty cool. Might be a bit redneck, but let's just add lounge, and we'll call it the Cadillac Lounge. And that's how I came up with the name. So Cadillac, because of Elvis's, I'm a big Elvis fan. Okay.

Elvis loves Cadillacs, and it is the standard of the world. It's a very, very cool car. And then one drunken night, I got the idea to have a bunch of beers and a bunch of booze, And I came up with this idea to hang a 1960 Cadillac from the front of the building, which I did. I bought this Cadillac up in Bracebridge. And the guy cut it in half and sent it down on a flatbed. And the guy had painted it pink with a paintbrush. I'm like, that's not what you're supposed to do.

You're supposed to use auto paint and paint it properly. I had to take it in, and I actually painted it white, and we hung up this Cadillac from the building. And then this liquor, not this liquor inspector, but this building inspector comes by, and he goes, hey, what's going on with this? I said, what are you talking about? He goes, why is this car hanging up in the building?

I'm like, why do you think I called it the Cadillac Lounge it was hanging there when I got here and I figured I might as well call the Cadillac Lounge he goes oh okay and he left me alone remember 299 Queen Street has a car hanging out the side of it too there's a city bylaw that no sign could hang 18 inches over the sidewalk

yeah there's always a byline. There's always a byline. All right, you enjoy your lake effect because I'm going to ask Dunk now. Dunk, now's a good time for you to interject your history of, is it Whiskey Jack? No, it's Whiskey Jack. Okay, Whiskey Jack and the Cadillac Lounge.

Yeah, well, we had been going for, at that time, probably 30 years or so. And we had a regular show on Parliament Street, a place called the Ben Wick's Restaurant over there. Be nice, clear your eyes. Yeah, yeah. And then that came to an end, and I was looking for other places.

I just needed a place to keep the band going. I've been going all this time without a gig. There's no band. But are you just knocking on every uh concert venue well i i think i i think somebody i think it might have been steve briggs or maybe it was doug no i didn't even know douglas and somebody introduced me anyway steve briggs was a steve okay and i came back because he and i had we're in a band called uh brother's kitchen at that time with dan kershaw and i know they had played there quite a bit at that time. Oh my God, Dan Kershaw. Yeah.

Well, he was one of my Kicking Out the Jam songs, that Bram Lee song, that was Dan. Oh, Dan Kershaw, that album is just. Yeah, no, it's just one of the best. And nobody knows about it. Nobody knows about it, and they should know about it. Yeah, I don't even know if it's on Spotify. Well, two-thirds of this room know about it,

and I now know about it from you Kicking Out the Jam. Yeah, I mean, every song on that album is fantastic. So I think he introduced me to you and then i can't remember i'm probably begged you for an opportunity to play and i think we came in on a saturday we did a show and then immediately you came up to me afterward and said do you want to do a regular thing because you you know i'd been i made him an offer he can't refuse that's right that's right and uh i believe it yeah actually howard willett might have had something to do with that too because he had been playing with the Bebop Cowboys at that time. I just called Howard on my way in.

Did you? No, sorry. I didn't call him. I had an old phone number for him, so I sent him a message on Messenger, and he called me back. I just wanted to see how Bob was doing. Yeah.

Bob McDivitt, my guitar player of 40 years, is ill, and he retired from the business two or three years ago. Sweetheart of a man. Yeah, yeah. So that's how I met Sam, and for many years. How often would you play at the Cadillac Band? Once a month, sometimes more because of that fantastic patio that he went to all that trouble to get a license for.

But think about in a summer, on a Saturday evening, you'd have somebody in the patio in the front room. So you had two bands going at the same time, and you could sort of put an acoustic band in the back because the neighbors didn't want it to be too loud. You could crank it up in the front room. And then we got paid too, Mike. We got paid money for this.

I still can't believe that. This guy paid every dollar. At that time, we were very, very busy. We were very busy. money for this i still can't believe that this guy paid every uh every dollar oh you know what at that time we had a lot of like we were very very busy you know we were very busy and we just put the prices up just slightly above everybody else in the neighborhood and that generates revenue for entertainment so it's kind of a good business move the other thing that the cadillac had that very few other clubs have it used to be in the old days when we were touring you go into a club and they would have a they'd have their audience there would be people in no matter where you came from or what the music was there were always going to

be 50 100 people in that club on any particular night and then it came to the point where clubs didn't have their own audience anymore we had to bring our own but the Cadillac lounge because it was such a neighborhood place, even Graffiti's, my guess is, they had kind of an audience. So people would come in and hear us for the very first time

that wouldn't have otherwise heard us. And so that was another great advantage to playing at the Cadillac Lounge. All right, play a little ditty from a little Toronto band. Maybe you've heard

of these guys. Yeah. And maybe you've heard of these guys. I want to run feeling this way. Till I am myself. Till I am myself. Till I am myself again. Blue Rodeo played the Cadillac Lounge. This guy has done his homework, Dave Duncan. He's really done his homework. He's good. You are good. Mike guy has done his homework, Dave Duncan. He's really done his homework. He's good.

You are good. Mike, you are very good. Please continue. Do you want to hear my story? Yeah. February 2001, we get a call. I get a call from Cleve Anderson's wife. Cleve, wait a minute.

What year is this? This is, okay, okay. Ingrid. Ingrid Schumacher. Yeah, she's been a guest on this show. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful lady. He went into postal work. Yeah.

So Cleve is turning 50, and she wants to throw him a big 50th birthday party, and where else but the coolest joint in town, the Cadillac Lounge, right? Oh, I was going to say the coolest joint in town and when that place was booked up,

they went to the Cadillac Lounge. Exactly. And so she says to Cleve, like, what do you want for your 50th? And he says, I just want to play. So she says, okay.

So what she did is she got every band he's played in in the 70s back to high school wow he got his high school back so and he was on stage all night long playing with uh bands like i think the sharks the battered wives um all these bands and then the last band to show up was blue rodeo and of course cleve was was in Blue Rodeo. But I think they were playing Peterborough that night.

And they didn't show up until like 1230. And at that time, 2001, it was one o'clock was last call. Oh, right. Yeah, they just about to change it at that time. But it was still one o'clock last call. So now I got the original even with bobby weisman he's on stage with blue rodeo cleave on the drums and it's one o'clock in the morning wow and now it's 1 30 in the morning and they're playing and it's a blast

and we're having everybody's having a great time and it's like the greatest house party you want to be at you know and it's two o'clock and they're still playing. And legally, you're supposed to get the booze off the table at 1.45. Yes. Yes, of course. This is a big liquor license rule. Well, I'm Italian. I turned off all the lights, all the neon lights outside. I turned off all the lights.

I locked the door. I'm like, nobody can come in and nobody can leave. We're going to have a party. It's a private party. They played until 3 o'clock in the morning. And somewhere at home, I got a copy of this on VHS. And it was just a blast. Well, good on Ingrid Schumacher, first of all.

That's amazing. Amazing. Amazing show. Amazing event. Great idea. And it was just a whole lot of fun. Well done. That's like my favorite band next to Whiskey Jack,

Blue Rodeo. They're all right. Well done. That's like my favorite band next to Whiskey Jack, Blue Rodeo. They're all right. Another here. I'm curious about a few other acts. I'm going to play a little Daniel Lanois, The Maker. I always like this jam.

It's been kicked out a few times, by the way, Dunks. No. Daniel Lanois also played at the Cadillac Lounge. Dan played at the Cadillac once. Actually, Dan's a good friend of mine, and he's just a sweetheart of a man. And his brother had booked a gig at the Cadillac, and he was a special guest, and he went up and played some guitar,

some electric guitar, and he was a special guest, and he went up and played some guitar, some electric guitar, and he was just amazing. And yeah, it was just a very cool night with Dan there, and years later, he had a motorcycle accident in Los Angeles, and he gave me a call. He goes, you know, Sam,

I'm looking for this 70s Cadillac. Can you steer me in the right direction? I said, Dan, I just happen to have one for sale. Get out of here. And kind of a prequel to the story was that I went with some buddies of mine. We went down to Pittsburgh and we drove my 1972 Fleetwood to Pittsburgh. And, you know, there are three professionals so I said okay guys we're gonna take turns driving right I'll drive but whoever's gonna

drive don't go more than 60 miles an hour because the car starts to rumble a bit right yeah yeah yeah no problem so my buddy Kirk he's a he's an emergency room doctor and he takes the wheel he goes oh sam this is great we're driving the 72 cadillac it's just like on your couch and you're just it i said yeah yeah just don't go too fast so i snooze off and what does he do he hits 70 miles an hour we blow a front tire and we're he grinds it into the shoulder and we're sitting there like scratching our head like what the hell are we gonna do now right so i call triple a but as we're sitting there like scratching our head like what the hell are we going to do now right so I call AAA

but as we're waiting for the AAA to come Kirk says Sam what did you pay for this car I said I paid $3,500 for this car I sure hope Dan's not listening to this story I said I paid $3,500 for this car he goes if I give you $3,500 can we just leave here

and let's just rent the car and go to pittsburgh and watch the show and i'm like no no we can't do that's my car i can't leave my car here so triple a came and they took out the uh they took out the uh the spare the spare had a flat tire the old jack you know the old jack that fits underneath the bumper wouldn't go underneath the bumper because the bumper was grinded into the shoulder the gravel shoulder anyway they end up getting the the spare tire there fill it up with air and the whole bit and we end up going we get to pittsburgh and uh we can't find a hotel room because it's the nra convention oh my god yeah so that's a whole other story we end up driving back

and that week daniel calls me and he says i'm looking for this car i said dan i got this car for sale not for sale but if you want it i'll sell it to you he goes i said you know what i'll drop it off at your studio i'll give the keys to margaret and his assistant and uh drive it around if you like it you know we'll make a deal so he drives around for a couple weeks and he calls me and he goes, Sam, I love that car. I'm like, yeah.

He goes, yeah. He goes, let's make a deal. I said, well, Dan, if you can give me

eight grand for it, that'd be great. He goes, done. I'll send you a check. And so I called my buddy Kirk. I said, Kirk,

that car that you wanted to give me $3,500 for, I sold it for $8,000. And I had bought it for $3,500 by accident on eBay. How do you accidentally buy a Cadillac?

I bid on it. I bid on it. I was hoping someone else was going to bid me, and they didn't, so I ended up with this car. Here's a pro tip. Don't bid on anything unless you want it. Well, it's a Cadillac. How can you not want a Cadillac?

Especially the Cadillac Lounge. Okay, and Birdie Cummings, he played at the Cadillac Lounge? Yes. My good friend Tim Boacanti was having a record release party on Friday night, I believe, and they had played Massey Hall. So he's in the Carver Frogs and they're the band that backs up Bertie Cummings.

And I think also that week, Bertie was getting, what do you call it, a star? A walk of fame. A walk of fame thing. Which I think Duncan should week, Burton was getting, what do you call it, a star? A Walk of Fame. A Walk of Fame thing. Okay. Which I think Duncan should have that star as well. I'm working on it.

Bless your heart. Please. So, yeah, Burton was in town for that whole week. And so Tim says, hey, listen, Burton, I'm playing the Cadillac Lounge tomorrow. Why don't you come by? He goes, yeah, sure, I'll come by. But Tim didn't tell me until he gets there for sound check. He goes, I think Burton's going to come by.

I mean, you're crazy. And lo and behold, Burton Cummings walks into the door. Wow. I'm like, oh my God, Burton Cummings is in the house. It's crazy. And there's some great YouTube videos. He went up on stage. He did Hoochie Coochie Man.

He did a Beatles tune. And I think he did three of his own songs. And it was like 3 o'clock in the morning. And he still has a pint of beer in his hand. I'm like, Burton, it's 3 o'clock. We've got to go. That's when you start serving the cold tea. Is that right?

Cold tea? Cold tea, yeah. I don't think Burton would go for the cold tea. But just a great guy, professional, and he just knocked it out of the park that night. What year was that? I want to say it was 2000. I want to say it was 2012, maybe.

I always wondered in the era of Twitter, because that's post-Twitter now, 2012. I think Twitter starts blowing up in 2009, I think. But in that time, you're at the Cadillac Lounge and Birding Cummings hit the stage. You just tweet, hey, come to the Cadillac Lounge right now. Birding Cummings is performing.

The place was packed, so I just kind of enjoyed it. I just kind of sat there and I'm like, wow, this is cool. One of my all-time favorite singers is up on stage. You kind of have to be careful with that stuff anyway because you don't want to get totally swamped, you know? You know, it's kind of a reward for everybody that was there that came to see the record release party for Tim.

It's that reward for those people that are in there already. Right. Now, Jason from Sudbury, I'm going to read his whole question here. And he warned me when he wrote this, he was really, really tired. So we're going to see if it makes sense. I just want to hear some stories about

bands, artists he's met over the years who was awesome. I've stolen a lot of Jason Thunder here and covered a lot of this, but who was awesome, who was a dick, best, worst concert, that type of stuff. He's also wondering if you managed to collect any memorabilia or autographs. So any, just maybe

do you have a few, maybe you want to sprinkle in a favorite story or two? A dick story. Other than Duncan Fremlin, who is the biggest dick you've had to work with booking live music?

Nobody was really a dick in all that time. Nobody was really, nobody really gave me a hard time. But it is kind of magical when you're a kid and you're walking down uh from kensington market down to uh down to sam the record man or a and a's to buy a record of your favorite artist and uh and some of these artists like gary us bonds um john cafferty

and the beaver brown band and then you know years later you have this little venue and these bands are on stage it's kind of like it kind of you know throws you for a trip you know like what is going on so having gary us bonds on stage was like magic uh john cafferty which of course eddie and the cruisers number one album on billboard um soundtracks it was unbelievable and the night before john was playing in niagara falls and i said john you know the cadillac it's not as big as this joint it's uh it's kind of a neighborhood bar with the stage what is the capacity it was 159 okay yeah legally right illegally it was maybe 250 but he goes oh don't worry sam it's gonna be fine it's gonna be fine so the next night you know and this was all part of our light of day

concert which we raised money for uh research into parkinson's and he was on the bill um so anyway he's up on stage and he he says yeah you know I was talking to Sam last night and he was a little bit worried about us playing his little bar here. He goes, we've been playing these bars for 40 years and we love it. And that was just magic. Right. Amazing. One more thought from a musician's point of view,

you could always count on a CD quality PA system and somebody who really knew how to run it. And for, for an act to go in there and you get these three, you get paid, you got to see, you got a PA and you got somebody to run the PA and all the equipment you need.

Believe me, this is no small. Bless this boy. Right. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you gentlemen. So why do you think I said,

uh, yeah, Sam, Sam Grosso, don't call him Grosso. We'd make a great guest on Toronto Mike here. I want to get these stories out. Now, okay, so that's like,

no one was a dick. Those are cool stories of meeting. And like, are you, do you collect memorabilia and stuff? I always got, like, when I knew Gordon Lightfoot was going to be there with the Good Brothers. He was there first with Whiskey Jack,

if I can just interject. And I wasn't there. You were not there that afternoon. I wasn't getting laid. I was laid up in the hospital. I was laid up in the hospital, and I was so pissed off that I couldn't be there. Okay, so you mentioned you had two of the stories in the... This is the third Stompin' Tom's birthday celebration.

This would have been in 2016. It was on a Sunday afternoon. Again, we had, I think Adrian was there on that one Adrian Clarkson I think Wendell Ferguson was a guest that day and there was suspicion that Gordon was going to come but it was such an awful storm that day

we had people that came down from Barrie for the show and they told us they couldn't see their hand in front of their face all the way down so nobody really expected Gordon to be there so it's around 3.30, 4 o'clock in the afternoon. The place is full, and we're singing On a Winter's Night, our version of, it was on our new CD at the time, and who should walk in with Gordon Leifert.

The neat thing was that Gordon has this aura about him. When he walked in the door, somebody noticed him, the next person. Within seconds, everybody was on their feet. They just stood up when he walked in. Wow. And we're applauding it. And then we saw he was there. And he got up. I invited him up and he didn't perform, but he spent, I don't know, five or 10 minutes talking about the old days with Tom.

They did a show in Ottawa many years ago, and he was impressed that Tom's only concern was how much he was getting paid and when he was going to get his money. Room temperature beer, right? Absolutely room temperature. So you drank your room temperature beer in Ottawa. I love it. I love it. Great Lakes. Great Lakes, good people, good beer. So now you know now

you got me thinking i think gordon lightfoot was there three times because he was there with you guys yeah he was there with the good brothers yeah i was there and he was also there for george chavalo's 80th birthday oh did he come to that i'm pretty sure he was there okay because i got a picture of george oh no he no picture of George George was there at my show that's right so maybe only twice I got this great picture at the Cadillac with George and Gordon

together and it's magic I'm glad you mentioned George so the last time I was at the Cadillac lounge was because of my friend and client John Gallagher John Gallagher I can't do a Gallagher. John Gallagher. I can't do a Gallagher, but John Gallagher. He invited me to his book launch at the Cadillac Lounge.

That's right, yeah. And Shavala was there, yeah. Yeah, George is a great guy. I met him years ago, and he had his book launch. Not his book launch, but he had a book launch party there, not the big one. And he was just such a great guy and we went out for dinner after

and George told me some amazing stories about back in the day with Rocky Marciano and Ali and the whole bit. And he had, at that time, he had this tremendous, tremendous memory. He was fantastic. I always remember that night. Well, he's a survivor, that man.

I mean, look what he's been through and still going. Super, super nice guy. Absolutely. I think Perry Lefkoe was at that event too. I just finally had him on Toronto Mike last week. And I think he was, yes, I know actually now I remember he was at that Cadillac Lounge book launch for Gallagher as well. But let's learn why you no longer run the Cadillac Lounge.

You own that building, right? Yeah. I mean, if you told me years ago that I would end up owning two buildings on Queen Street, I would look at you like you had three heads. But it's just, I don't know, it's just the way it happens. I worked really, really hard

and I ended up buying the building next door and then I ended up buying the building that I was leasing. Right. And it just became really hard to run the business, being a family guy. It's because you got married and had kids, to be honest.

You can't be, you were like seven days a week, right? I'm the only bar owner that has four children with one wife. One wife? I'm even impressed by that that has four children with one wife. One wife? I'm even impressed by that. Wow. My beautiful wife, Leah.

We have four beautiful children. And, you know, I'm Italian. It's about the family. It's all about family, right? So it got to the point where the price of or the value of the real estate was always in the back of my mind. I'm like, yeah, okay, I'm going to pay Whiskey Jack. I'm not going to make any money today, but I know at some point down the road, I'm going to cash in. Right.

It was all about. That's valuable real estate now. Because Parkdale has come a long way since 2000. It came a long way. And I don't even want to tell you what I bought them for. It was like for nothing. And I sold them for a good buck. And so I made quite a bit of money. And so that was always in the back of my mind. And when it got to the point where I'm like, wow, I'm

really hemorrhaging money here. It's time to walk away. It's time to... Okay. But first of all, no judgment here. I totally see why you did that. You got to cash out. You got the four kids, the wife, and the real estate value is so high. So basically, you can't... Basically, the value of your property is always worth more to some developer,

I don't know, condos, I don't know, than it would be to you to have the whiskey jacks of the world in to play live music for us Torontonians. Like, in that scenario, then, we're going to have nowhere to see live acts unless you go spend, you know, $300 to see Lady Gaga or something. You know what I mean? Like, we're going to miss that.

I guess you've got some venues like Danforth Music Hall and stuff. Well, you know, there are still a lot of, and I think with the media, they always talk about the venues that are closing, but they don't talk about the venues that are opening, you know, there are still a lot of, and I think with the media, they always talk about the venues that are closing, but they don't talk about the venues that are opening, you know? So there are a lot of great venues that are still around and even new ones that are opening. And I think people should be talking about that in the media and really supporting those venues. You know, I think the WeChief is just doing a big makeover, and they're having a live music venue there. And they got Sean Creamer, who is a good friend of mine,

that used to own Dakota and the Hayloft out in Prince Edward County. Okay. So he's going to be booking. He's the only booker there booking music. So there's going to be some great. Because Clinton's just closed, right? Clinton's just closed. I just saw that the other day, and I love that venue too.

And right now, like just so we all, so you, you sell the two places on queen street there. That was a Cadillac lounge. And there isn't like, there's no one just started running it for you. Like that place is gone now.

Like there is no Cadillac lounge. It's gone. They're going to develop it to some type of a cheesy boutique hotel. Of course. Like the Drake or the, yeah. Yeah. I think the live music,

we're sort of in flux right now. It's going to be, who knows what it's going to be like five years from now. But Sam's right, there are places opening. I think part of the difficulty is when you've got a minimum wage or a less than minimum wage musician

coming to Toronto from wherever hoping to make a career for himself like you could do back in the 80s when Queen West and Handsome Ned and some of those, when that whole scene was going on. And you could afford the rents back then. You could afford the rents, all of that,

but obviously that's gone. And it's good for the outlying areas where you've got much cheaper rent. If I didn't own the building, I wouldn't have been able to afford my own rent. I wouldn't be able to afford the rent. So it was just a blessing. Yeah, sure, if I didn't have been able to afford my own rent. Like I wouldn't be able to afford the rent. I just, so it was just a blessing.

You know, yeah, sure. If I didn't have kids, if I wasn't married, I'd still be there. But you know, you got to pick and choose.

And no regrets, right? I have no regrets. I got, I am not, I remember one time someone sent me a text message. One of my staff members sent me a text message. The kitchen's on fire.

And I had taken one Saturday off. One Saturday. I actually worked half a day. I went in on Friday. I worked half a day on Saturday. And I took off back to the county. I was going to go see the Mavericks perform in Belleville. And I wasn't home an hour.

And they sent me. They don't call anymore that there's a fire. They send you a text. There's a fire in the kitchen. A fire doesn't even get you a phone call. It's just a text. Millennials. All right.

Now I want to ask you about the Elma combo because it's, oh, it's been the news last couple of years because Michael Weckerle has spent X million dollars on it. His mom, by the way, taught at my high school. Just throwing it out there. I went to her funeral and I was talking to someone. Wait, hold on. Actually, I didn't know she passed. This is very recent then, right?

Just a few weeks ago. Oh, I didn't know. Yeah. Oh, I'm sad now. Thanks a lot. I had a respect for Michael and I didn't know his mom, but the people that I did talk to had so many beautiful stories about this woman who was like the ultimate teacher.

Right, and Michael Power. Yeah. So I was like, wow, just like an incredible life, you know? I actually, I'm just learning the news now. I had no idea she passed on a few weeks ago. Yeah. But he bought the Elmo from some sketchy character. I forget who it was.

Do you know who it was? I had to sell the Elmo. I had some situation with the partners, and so I had to sell it, and I was kind of the face of the Elmo. So I put it up for sale, and I wanted to make some waves, which I usually do, so I put the sign up sale and I wanted to make some waves, which I usually do.

So I put the sign up on eBay, the neon sign, and it made a big, wow, a big issue in the city, I guess. You know, I got called in. Because the city loves their signs. Yeah, well, if they really support their venues more than they love their signs. We like the signs more than the venues. I think that's for sure. I think Toronto Life quoted me like,

if everybody gave a fuck about the business, they wouldn't be worried than the venue. I think that's for sure. I think Toronto Life quoted me like, if everybody gave a fuck about the business, they wouldn't be worried about the sign or something like that, I said. No joke, though. I actually think the city's okay with Sam the Record Man disappearing as long as we get that sign somewhere. There's a lot of examples,

even the 1050 Chum building on Yonge there. And I'm thinking there's other ones that, yeah, just don't fuck with our signs. You know, Duncan, 50 chum building uh on young there and i'm thinking there's other ones uh that yeah just just don't fuck with our science you know duncan i went to uh the last sam the record man in bellville when i knew that gordon lifefoot was going to be at the cadillac with the good brothers i i live like 20 minutes from the last sam the record man in the country. Right. And I drove up to the Quinty Mall and I bought Gord's gold. I went to Staples. I bought myself a gold magic marker and I went to the Cadillac lounge.

I went to work. Wow. And Gord Life was there and I was like, would you mind signing my record? Which I don't like to do, but. So there's the memorabilia right there. Yeah. A consummate fan, eh? Yeah.

I love it. It also cost me like 55 bucks with this record but it was good that's right the last stand the record man is in Belleville but I put up the sign

the neon sign I put it up on eBay and actually eBay Canada called me and they wanted to kind of like walk me through because I just did it

really quickly on my phone right and I so they wanted to walk me through it they said you know if someone could pay like $100,000 for Drake's running shoes,

they'll pay big bucks for this. Well, maybe they wanted to verify it was the real sign. Like, yeah, maybe they just wanted to make sure this was actually the sign. Did you get an offer for it? It was, it was just, you know,

it was going up so quickly. It was going up so quickly and they said, you know, you might get some collector in Japan that wants to buy this neon sign. And I will pay $200,000 for it. Right. Maybe Mick Jagger wants it. Who knows?

Who knows? But Michael Weckerly wanted it. And I remember the day like it was yesterday. Oh, just the sign. He wanted the sign. He wanted to buy the sign. Wow. I was on the Gardner Expressway right in front of the CN Tower.

And my phone rings. And it's kind of a convoluted story but i was trying to get a hold of him to see if he wanted to buy the building and the business and and um and i couldn't get a hold of him and i saw him on facebook with george chivalo so i called my good friend tommy doyle who works with george and said how can i get a hold of this guy? Because this guy's the guy. There was a quote, like he's Warren Buffett meets Mick Jagger. I'm like, that's the guy that needs to buy this place, right? And so I sent a message to his secretary, and I didn't hear back. And then I'm on the Gardner Expressway, my phone rings, and it's Michael. And he's like, I want to buy that sign. I'm like, oh, expressway my phone rings and it's michael and he's like i want to buy that sign i'm like oh you know michael i and at that time i had a meeting with the city of toronto and i told them i was going to take the sign off ebay i want to buy that sign i'm like you

know what it's not for sale anymore i'm just going to donate it to the city i've lost so much money here i'm just gonna call it a wash i'm just gonna put it up when give it to the city, and they're going to do what they want with it. And I could tell my kids that one day, you know, a long time ago, I owned that sign. And he said, no, no, no, I'll pay top dollar for it. I'll pay top dollar. He was so adamant. It was Halloween.

It was Halloween, and I said, listen, if you want that sign so badly, I'll sell you the building and the business. I'll throw the sign in for free. He goes, okay, i'll sell you the building and the business i'll throw the sign in for free he goes okay i'll see you tomorrow he goes i can't come right now because i'm on my way to justin bieber's house for a halloween party with my kids i'm like uh okay name drop there wow i'll see you tomorrow and at 2 2 30 just like he said the next day he shows up with uh this entourage and these headphones and he's like character and takes a walk through the whole building.

And he goes, okay, great. Where do I sign? Wow. And he, you know, I think my lawyer said, oh, can you, you know, verify your ID? He goes, oh, my ID burned up in my million dollar Porsche, but call my secretary. She has it all photocopied. And right there and then he bought the building. Wow.

Wow. So it's been years now, right? A few years, right? A few years ago. It still hasn't opened yet. I don't know if you noticed. No, it hasn't opened. It's very close. I took a walk in there about two months ago and I knew it was going to be cool, but it blew me away

on how cool it is. Wow. It was really, really cool. Well, he sunk some real coin into this thing. He raised the roof. Everything's to the nines, like state-of-the-art sound system. It's all wired up. There's a recording studio in there.

You have the ability to be on either stage. There's two stages. You have the ability to be on stage and have it recorded in, um, high def and AK, uh, video. So it's going to be very,

very cool. He's got some good people around him too. Does he? Yeah. Yeah. He has a really good team there. Um, Andy Curran and Alicia,

they're working the calendar. So he has a really, really good team around him. And, uh, people say, Oh, you know, it's not going to work. It's not going to work. If anybody can make it work, it's Michael. It's going to be amazing.

Are you ready to reveal whether there's any talks with the Rolling Stones about coming back and playing the Elmo when it finally opens? Well, it's funny you say that. opens well it's funny you say that because uh i got an idea um that i i always like to go for the far-fetched idea right so i thought how cool would it be to have um a ronnie wood art show on the ground floor and a ronnie wood uh cd release or i guess they don't use that word anymore, CD album release party on the second floor. So I've contacted his people, and

we're trying to get them to be interested in this concept of having Ronnie Wood, because he's a great painter, so do an art show on the ground floor, and Ronnie, so Ronnie has a brand new record.

It's a tribute to Chuck Berry. Right. And we could do the record release party on the second floor. So I'm working on that. And I ended up talking to a woman named Jane Rose. Nobody knows, but she is the actual manager of the Rolling Stones. Wow. Yeah.

Look at you. I haven't told anybody this story. And you've heard it here on this amazing podcast thank you maybe you'll actually listen to an episode now that you heard

how amazing it is yeah I hope no one scoops that show from me but if you do you're fuckers listen don't F with Sammy here

he's gonna take you out okay now we already talked about it off the top here but just to close the Cadillac Lounge is gone close, the Cadillac Lounge is gone, but you run Cadillac Lounge Productions.

Yes, I do. And this is basically where you don't own a venue, but you're still putting together shows and promoting shows. Yeah. I did a show back in January. I did an Elvis tribute show at an amazing venue, Hughes Room. Of course, Hughes Room, yeah. Duncan's going to love this story.

I promised the band $1,000 US. They're from Albany, New York. And they do an amazing, they're a great rockabilly band called the Luster Kings. And we did this show twice at the Cadillac, every January for the birthday.

So they wanted to do it again. I said, oh man, I don't own a venue. I said, but you know what? Let's do it at Hughes Room. We'll do it at Hughes Room. We'll bring in some guest singers. And you always want to talk a little bit about the money

because they're coming up. It's a big, you know. And he says, if you give us a thousand bucks, it'd be great. I'm like, Canadian or US? I said, well, if you can do US, it'd be great. I'm like, Canadian or US? I said, well, you know, if you can do US, it'd be great. I'm like, I'm pretty confident. I said, yeah, I'll guarantee you guys a thousand bucks US, right?

So they come up and we put the tickets up for sale. How much? $30. We sold out Hugh's room. I gave them $1,500 US. Covered their hotel rooms, bought them breakfast and bought them dinner. Wow. And I still made money.

Can you imagine that? I can't imagine they do it for $1,000. $1,000. Well, they were doing a show in Buffalo. They were doing a show. They kind of like rooted a bunch of shows. I think they did two shows in Buffalo. I know it's some type of ice storm or rainstorm or something but

yeah but yeah i mean they're a three-piece band so yeah still they're a great band they're a great band 1500 bucks and uh and they're awesome and um but talking about guarantees you want to hear a crazy story i love talking about guarantees oh my god i am a big drifters fan i love the drifters so uh vazy who owned kensington sound above graffitis is the musical director for the drifters rick shepherd and the drifters so i said wow how cool would it be to have the drifters at the cadillac lounge he goes oh well here's the manager you know call him and see if you can make it work and it ended up being um uh four thousand dollars a show four thousand us for a show so i said i can sell a hundred tickets at 80 bucks and have a sit-down show so we did it, and I was so 100% convinced that I would sell out two shows.

We didn't sell out the shows. Not only that, that weekend, there was the ice storm in April. Right. Two years ago now? I remember this, yeah. I lost so much money. I basically lost $8,000. Wow.

And then the people that did buy tickets gave me a call and they wanted their money back because they couldn't make it to the show and I was like I'm thinking to myself I know this is an elderly person and $80 is a lot of money

for anybody it's a lot of money so I said you know what I'll send you back the money if you want the money back I'll send it back to you and I did so it back to you. And I did. So it's all about karma, right?

The very next week, I got a Budweiser commercial to be filmed at the Cadillac. They gave me 15 grand. Hey! Even Steven. Even Steven, baby. Dunk, how did he do? This is the episode you suggested. And I said, yeah, I'd like to do that.

We did it. How was it? No, it was fantastic, and there's still lots of stuff to talk about. There's a lot of great stories. I didn't touch on any. We haven't even touched on the charity shows he does at the cashier that he used to do.

Well, here, you've got five minutes. Spill this good stuff about him. Go crazy, Sam. Yeah, so I'm doing a show May 16th up in Woodbridge, and we have a charity that we are very uh involved in and very near and dear to my heart it's called the francesco fund my son is francesco and he uh has type 1 diabetes and so we raise money for newly diagnosed um children that have diabetes so we help out the

families that need a helping hand with all the, all the things that they need to help them on their day-to-day struggles. Oh, good for you. That's great. That's great. Dunk, what else did we miss that we need to spill out here? Oh, just the, many of my memories are about the Saturday afternoon matinees. I'd go down and see Stompin' Tom's, one of the very first band members of his,

Mickey Andrews. Mickey's the multi-instrumentalist. Oh, great guy. Great guy. He remembers everything from the 60s. Absolutely everything. He told me that he wanted to get Stompin' Tom down at the Cadillac and do a show.

He goes, but the only thing is, he has to smoke. Yeah. I'm like, stomping tom smoke everybody could smoke i don't care right well you're gonna do it on the patio yeah and uh he just got ill at that time but i the cadillac could have been the last place that stomping tom played how cool would that have been this is such a uh the the roots of can are Mickey Andrews and Mary McIntyre. This is the real deal. Sweet, sweet, sweet people. They would fill the afternoon show at the Cadillac Lounge.

People would dance. It was just a real. They got a guarantee. They got a guarantee and they didn't pass the jug. No, no, no. They wouldn't play without a guarantee. It was, the beauty of the Cadillac is that you can come by on a Saturday afternoon at four o'clock and see people in their eighties dancing.

And then you can come back at one o'clock in the morning and see girls and miniskirts at 20 years old dancing. Wow. Anything else? No, that's awesome. Well, why don't you spend a moment to remind us about the big show? Well, April 16th, 2020, we're at Zoomer Hall for the seventh annual Stompin' Tom birthday celebration.

I just found out a couple of days ago that the great Marie Buttrell, now she's Canadian country music royalty, she was nominated for Best Female Vocalist eight times in the day, and the problem was she was up against Anne-Marie. So never got a victory. But this woman has been. So she's performed with us before. She's going to come in from London and sing with us.

The great Marie Foster from Great Big Sea. And I'm also negotiating with an FOTM that you and I talked about, and I can't announce them yet. Okay. But this is big. But that's the big clue. It's an FOTM. That narrows it down to and I can't announce them yet, but this is big. But that's the big clue. It's an FOTM. That narrows it down to 592.

Oh, man. I'll tell you. Thank you, gentlemen. If he's on board, yep. Thank you, guys. Oh, and it's a male. Okay. And I'll say to you, Dunk,

I've thoroughly enjoyed these three months of talking about playing your ad and talking about Stomp-a-Tom and about Whiskey Jack. I've loved it. Great, thank you. Thanks so much for your support. Love it.

And Sam, thanks so much. Before you jet out of here, though, we have to take a photo, a quick photo. It only takes 20 seconds before you disappear. Absolutely. Thank you so much for making the trek and for talking with us today. Keep live music alive.

And that brings us to the end of our 590-second show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto, Mike, Sam, you're at Cadillac lounge to numeric to very important. You don't want the other one. Our friends at Great Lakes brewery are at Great Lakes beer.

Palma past is at Palma pasta. Sticker. You is that sticker? You, the Kytner group are at the Kytner group and banjo dunk is that banjo dunk with a C see you all Wednesday when my special guest is Ben Ennis

from the fan 590 and drink some goodness from a tin. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.