Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Scot Turner on Energy 108: Toronto Mike'd #703

Episode Date: August 10, 2020

Mike dives deep into the history of Energy 108 with Scot Turner.

1079 CINGFM Burlington, Toronto, Hamilton, Southern Ontario, Western New York and the world. Energy number 108, 108, 108, 108, 108. What up, man? Toronto. VK on the beat. I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love. I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love. Welcome to episode 703 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities,

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From TorontoMike.com and joining me this week to pay proper tribute to Energy 108 is Scott Turner. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for coming back. I gotta say your last appearance got me all excited. Like, I

loved it and I just was counting the days till we could do this again. And remember, Scott, this was in our calendar for much earlier than this and then COVID hit. Yeah. A lot has changed since that last time, right? Because it was just before it than this, and then COVID hit. Yeah. And we had to cancel. A lot has changed since that last time, right? Because it was just before it, was it not? I have this detail.

Hold on here. It was February 5th. Yeah. And just if people want to go back and hear. So this episode is basically the 90s, but it's a tribute to Energy 108. Your previous visit, which was February 5th, that was episode 579. And we talked about, you kicked out jams from CFNY.

This is the 80s, basically, CFNY era. Yeah. So we'll keep going through the decades till we catch up. And what's the next one again? The 2000s?

Yeah. Oh, station-wise, radio-wise. I know what the next decade is. Come on. So then after that, it-wise, radio-wise. I know what the next decade is. Come on. So after that, it would be, I think, we'd go to BC for a short period, and then we'd come back and back in Kitchener for Dave and 91.5 The Beat. And then we can segue into K-Fun. There's a little bit of the move and flow in that, too.

A few others. Awesome. Small little segments of time. Okay, so, and throughout this episode, I have some, what do you call these? Station IDs. I played one off the top. I'm just going to play one right now because we're still in the heart of summer here. So here we go. Your official

summer party station. C-I-N-G-f-m 107.9 energy 108 so whose voice am i hearing there so that's bumper morgan so and we'll talk a little bit more about him at scott beals was his real name uh but we can just go into it now because it's up to you he just passed away uh at the end of may and uh he was only in his 50s um he had als had been suffering with that for a while and lived in massachusetts and where that story came from and this is um you know early 90s when we uh started energy 108 um i parents, I was lucky enough that my parents had a condo down in Florida. So I would go down every winter, spend a couple of weeks, and listening to American radio.

And he was mostly famous for this station in Tampa called the Power Pig. It was famous for a number of different reasons. It was just a powerhouse CHR. They did this campaign when they launched it where they painted all their, they bought, I don't know how many street vehicles they had, you know, promo vehicles, but they were all painted pink and they were really crappy vehicles, painted pink, and they just painted really roughly with black paint, power pig on the side, drove them around the city. Great campaign. They got a lot of attention for that. But there was this voice. And back in those days, you know, the big voice was such a big thing.

It's a different thing now. Over the years, that sort of having a big, big radio voice, especially in your imaging voice, which this guy did, less important as the years went on. But around that time, and I really wanted something to stand out, so it was very American-sounding and just cut through everything else in and around Toronto Radio and Southern Ontario. It's a big voice, like you said, Bumper Morgan. So rest in peace, Bumper Morgan. I'm just going to play another one real quick here.

Yep, yeah. Your official party station energy 108 so and the other funny thing is because we became such great friends and he was such a part of the radio station he wanted to know everything going on and we kept telling him we're doing all these these things and these club gigs and everything else and he was so fascinated by it he wanted to come up so we looked after him he came up for a visit and we uh we hooked him up in some hotels and things because uh well, it was the Evanoff days. So we had a lot of Contra. We'll get into that later.

So anyway, the funny thing, you know, there's that old story behind hearing a voice on the radio and then meeting the person and they don't quite match up. This was a classic example of that, right? Okay, because I'm picturing like a big, I don't know, like a six foot four. I'm picturing like Don Draper or something. Yeah, just a big guy. No, not a, like super geeky guy. And when you meet him, his voice is not what you're hearing there. So there's a little processing involved, right?

And people are like, that's bumper? Yeah, I bet. That's bumper? Right. But he had technique and he had just perfected his processing to such a way. It was just like, wow. Well, somebody on Twitter yesterday, when I said we had IDs, said they remembered one, this very clever one.

I'll just play this one now because it's kind of cute here. Hold on. It's not how big our tower is. It's what we do with it. Energy 108. I couldn't find, there's another one we ran. And it was his idea. It was, is that the CN Tower in your pocket, or are you just happy to hear us? Right. You know, listen to that big ballsy voice that guy's got going on there.

It's almost like Optimus Prime, right? It's a bit like Autobots roll out. So funny true story is when, we'll get into this a bit, when I presented my kind of blueprint for energy to Bill Evanoff, and I actually have, I found the document here from July 1992. Oh, I love it. And one of the things I pointed out was that, and there were a whole number of things that were wrong about, at the time it was Dance 108.

So they had gone into this quote unquote dance format. Right. And I thought that's, that's great. And I had a really good listen and I said, oh boy, you know, there's a lot of things that are okay, but there's a lot that's not. And one of the things was the imaging. And I just made a big case and I said, look, if there's anything, we've got to change the imaging. And he was kind of fighting me on that because it costs a certain amount of money. Sure. So I offered to pay for the imaging.

Wow. Which is a true story. So out of my own pocket, which was... Did he make you do that? Well, what I learned about... Because usually you make that threat and then they feel they get guilted into cutting the I learned about Bill is be careful what you offer. He'll take you up on it.

But the deal was if the station picks up and starts to turn around and bring more of a profit in, you'll pay me back, which he did. But I was out of pocket for about three grand or whatever it was for a good imaging voice. And I was okay with that. I just wanted to also just make a point and a statement that this is how invested I am in this station if you let me do my thing. Right.

And which he did, and he gave me so much freedom, and he was great for that. But that was one of the deals we made and he was like okay because he says i think it's fine and why do we spend that money and i'm like well just can we do it i'll pay for it now pay me back later right off the top you're delivering these uh fun facts i uh i'm starving for i need to just paint the picture here before we go any further so okay so you're you're in we're in the backyard studio uh we are live on periscope so if you're listening to the podcast, you can see it on demand later. And it is sunny

for you right now, because at this time of day, you got a little, you got about a half an hour more where that sun's going to be kind of bugging you and then it will be done. I've got a 30 on my arms and a 60 on my face because that's what my dermatologist says. When you get old and you're a white guy like me. You're a very pale man, right? It's kind of like primer. Right. No, I mean, even before I came out, I'm not even in the sun, but I got this big Irish nose, right? And it seems like this is what gets it.

Oh, that catches the rays. So if I go for a bike ride, for example, I'm going to ask you about biking in a moment. If I go for a bike ride and I didn't apply anything, it's possible I come back looking a bit like Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Yeah. So I've learned something. Just the bridge. And it's funny because...

I have to, yeah. The bridge comes in handy for sunglasses. I noticed my six-year-old has no bridge. So he's got his mom's nose, okay? Okay, yeah. And his mom is of Filipino descent. And there's this... And I know only some people on Periscope,

but there's no bridge. Like the glasses, there's nothing for the glass to sit on. It's like, you didn't get, I have all this glorious bridge and you didn't get any of this. It just seems like such a waste. So with the sunscreen, it slides off. You need a bridge. Okay. So Scott, before we get back to the history of 108, and it's going to be very in-depth, of course, You bring it. Oh yeah, so even before I ask you about biking, right off the top, I want to shower you with some praise. Can I just do that? Just before that too, we'll have to be careful

because I think last time, our goal today is to try to keep this under two hours or something. So let's just try to keep it short. Oh yeah, I know. We have a tendency to enjoy each other's... We'll keep the bicycle conversation... We'll keep it brief.

...talk to later on. Okay, we can do that if you want. Yeah. I do want to shower you with praise though. Like I think your social media game is top shelf lately. Like I'm actually now at a point where I'm so aching for a Scott Turner Toronto music history podcast. Like I'm willing to produce it for free at this point.

Like that's how badly I think the city needs what you're bringing to the table. So if people aren't following you, where are your go-to social channels for sharing all this great stuff? So interestingly, you mentioned that, and I thank you for prodding me and getting me warmed up on this. And you and many others have been poking at me to do a podcast. So that was my special announcement for today. Oh, you have a special announcement. I am going to do a podcast. I think, I think, and it's just that very thing. Uh, it, you know, getting all the details together is going to take me a little time and I'm still learning. Um, and podcasting

is still very new, right? So, uh, but this fall and it's it's going to be it's a compliment to those posts you see about you know music milestones in toronto concert history and that's actually the working title for it right now is music milestones and toronto concert history so uh if you do follow me on twitter and on facebook and if you want to be friends with me on facebook that's just you know search me out and um but not if you're that person friends with me on Facebook, that's just, you know, search me out. But not if you're that person or those persons that send me a link saying, would you want to look at my videos and my photos and heart, heart, heart, flame, flame, flame. I get occasionally one of those. So, and it's at Scott Turner and Scott with one T on Twitter.

Right. And it's reverse for Instagram at Turner Scott. Again, Scott with one T on Twitter. Right. And it's reverse for Instagram at Turner Scott. Again, Scott with one T. And like even little things, like when you mentioned that 102.1, was it Chic 60 years ago this week? That's right. Yeah. Just last week, I think it was. Yeah.

So the 102.1 frequency that you know today is Edge started as CHic uh in 1960 so 60 years ago like last week but it started remember am radio was where all the money was and am radio ruled the airwaves in the 60s 70s and it started to change in the 80s or late 70s early 80s so uh chic and they had an am station it was very powerful so they just rebroadcast the AM on the FM. So it was still the same station for the first number of years before they started to play some music on the FM. But yeah, that's a true story. And I love reading that stuff,

and you're so good at collecting the info and dispersing it that I can't wait to subscribe to a Scott Turner podcast this fall or whatever, whenever you get to this. Like, I think I'm going to push it heavily. Yes. Because... And we'll talk, yeah, because maybe we can help each other out. And like I said, I've learned from you and there's more to learn.

And I will feature some things in there that you don't get on Facebook because let's be honest, like, you know, Facebook, they're getting all this content for free. And I think Mark is, how much Mark Zuckerberg is worth? What was it last week? Too much, too much. I think it came out. And so, and there's lots of interviews that I've got, especially from the CFNY years.

So many interviews that I've got on cassette that I need to digitize. And I'll, you know, feature some of that in the podcast and do occasional interviews. But just a little more background on some of those stories and the research that I've dug up. I do enjoy doing research, so it's been kind of fun. I was kind of doing it for K-Fun and Kitchener, the classic hit station, and it was something I enjoyed doing. So I just kept doing it.

And it was also a process for me to relearn some of these things I'd forgotten, right? Because it was like, oh yeah, I forgot that person did that album or produced that album or whatever and those things. So it's a kind of re, you know, getting my memory back to, you know, where it was back at that time.

Because it was a few years ago. I think it's safe to say anyone who's listening right now because they want to hear Scott Turner on Toronto Mic'd, I think anyone who's listening to us right now will want to listen to the Scott Turner podcast. So we're fishing where the fish are. So as soon as I have more details, obviously I'll share it. But that's great news.

That's a great scoop there. And your recommendation, and I think it's true, is I'm going to keep it to 15, 20 minutes. You know, just the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Some facts and a couple little trivia notes. And occasionally if I do an interview, it'll be longer, but I'll keep it short and sweet. Awesome. I'll try, honest.

All right, Scott, the floor is yours. I know you've done some homework. As I paint that picture where you're in my backyard in the sun right now, I want to just point out. It's nice here. An old school. Yeah. I was freezing last night in your basement. It was very cold.

Oh, yeah. In February. Yeah. It's tough to warm up the basement. I had that portable heater, but I don't like how it sounds. But this is much warmer. It's beautiful. You have an old school calculator.

I just want to. So just tell the people why you brought an old school calculator with you. And I'll be honest. I bring notes with me, various things I have to write down because when you're put on the spot, sometimes you, you know, I fact check and I gotta, so I have some notes, cheat notes and things. If you ask me something, you know, I might have the fact here, but this was also because I don't know, I thought, what if he asked me a math question, like how much you were making or, you know, what was a live-to-air worth back in those days?

Which, by the way, I did dig that up. You know, we were for a live-to-air energy, we were pulling in about five grand, four to five grand for live-to-air. Generated a lot of money. Anyway, so the calculator is here just in case that. And you mentioned, of course, you have that on your phone. And you're like, yeah. Yeah, I usually use that phone. Yeah, and I should note, too.

See this phone? That's right. It's's a blackberry with a keyboard okay thank you very much that's right the tactile all right so uh how do we frame this are you going to start with the origin story of uh i guess you mean again bill evanov you mentioned a moment ago uh passed away is it earlier this year yeah it was febru February 28th, I believe. And so, you know, because when we talked about doing the last episode and picking the jams, and I thought, let's just focus on the 80s. Let's focus just on CFNY. And I said, I need to keep energy separate. That's a story in and of itself. And there's so much music around that.

So my plan was to actually go talk to Bill before we would do the next one to just straighten out some facts. One story, which I'll get to in a second here. And I just, I wanted to talk to him about a few things. And then that happened. And it was, you know, I mean, he was 77, an incredible life. He was still working. And he's one of those guys, he reminds me of my brother-in-law. He's just wired as a, he's an incredible businessman. And, you know, he could just see him come alive

when he's got deals going. You know, I think he would, I think, you know, Bill Evanoff invented side hustles. He was the guy, like he just had so much going on and he could just manage it all somehow um fantastic businessman and uh and gave me so much freedom that's if there's anything i look back on the energy days was uh just the the almost carte blanche freedom he gave me to do what i needed to do and well if you hire the right people that's what you should do right well that's, agreed. And you know what's been in radio, most of my successes, best successes have been when people have just left me alone and let me just do my thing. Where it gets into trouble is when there's more cooks and all that sort of thing.

I produced the Humble and Fred podcast, and they always told me, they said Mick Standard, I guess Standard Broadcasting, hired them away from uh was i guess it was chorus but they hired hired humble and fred away for mix 99.9 and they always said they hired humble and fred and then tried to change what humble and fred was like why did you recruit and sign them up for five years if you weren't going to let them be humble and fred and if you're gonna you know you put scott turner in, which is a smart move for any radio station. Let Scott be Scott and do his Scottiness.

Exactly. My Scottiness. Regardless of how he spells Scotty. It doesn't even matter. You know, what's interesting is I think, and I don't have the exact address, but I think when I went, so CFNY came to an end. It was, I was fired end of June, 1992. And I had already been in conversations with Bill Ivanoff. I remember taking a drive out to Burlington because I'd heard the station and I'd heard, oh, yeah, they're doing this Dance 108.

Our story goes back, you know, back, if you remember the last episode and people can go back to hear the CFNY stories in the 80s. But before I started at CFNY, I worked for an AM station that Bill Evanoff owned, or co-owned. Right. And it was CKMW. And I remember we were talking, May Potts worked there, and Craig Venn worked there. And that's when the company, I forget, it was Civitas or McLean Hunter, whoever it was, split off the FM 102.1. They were going to keep that.

And they were selling off the AM. And Bill Alvanoff and a partner came in and bought the AM station. That's where I worked. And he was going to, it's going to be multicultural, he said. And I said, oh. I said, but we're not quite ready yet. We've only got a couple of hours of Italian. And I said, can you let me try something?

And he let me do this rhythm radio thing, Radio 790. It was a small AM station at Brampton. And I hit it for its little size and signal. It had incredible success. We talked about that breakdance contest. Yeah, that was a great story, the breakdance contest. Yeah, so we almost, it was like, I don't know, 19 hours a day. We were doing, you know,

rhythm radio, like a Churban, which is a, you know, combination of an urban radio station and a CHR, and it was radio 790, the frequency was changed, because there was a little better frequency available, and it was radio 790, so that went on for a few years before I left to go to CFNY, so there was a bit of a taste for that, and I also think, you know, Con Chung was a friend of Bill's that was doing reggae and he was supportive. And so I think that was always in the back of his mind.

So, you know, fast forward years later when they launched, you know, the FM 108, as it was called, which was like a middle of the road. Remember that term, middle of the road format or beautiful music i think they uh used to call it and they decided to switch to uh they first started actually as

rhythm at night uh so so let me get this uh positioning statement straight it was you know daytime light and rhythm at night that was sort of the beginning of it and i think he had remembered kind of what we had done um at uh rhythm radio radio 790 remind me what chr stands for i know a contemporary hit radio it's really top 40 because remember you're talking to some people who aren't actually in the industry okay i need to remember that yes that's true uh so um so yeah it was it was daytime light and he had some people that had worked at um you know these um easy listing stations back in the day he had on during the day. And then there was Wayne Williams, who was a huge part of the success of Energy 108, was doing rhythm at night.

And that's kind of where it started. Then it became full-time, 24-7, a dance station. It became full-time, you know, 24-7, a dance station. And that was Dance 108, which was 1991 until I came in with the proposal to Bill to say, look, we can take this to another level and just let me do my thing. But quick story. So I met Bill at his house. And what I was going to say is it must be near here because he was in Etobicoke somewhere.

South Etobicoke? Long time ago. But somewhere. And I think maybe because he didn't want me to see the radio station because this place was just, you know, it's like WKRP. It really was, you know, there's some truth in that show. It was just like there were all kinds of, you know, the equipment was terrible. It was just in disarray. Anyway, so I met him at his beautiful house.

And I remember talking to Bill, you know, with my proposal going, you know, here's what we need to do to dance 108, and I'm going to make it a big success. And we're talking to him, and I somehow got around to talking about the fact. I think I said, like, love your house and stuff. He said, well, you know, I just recently rented it to the guys from Pink Floyd. I'm like, what? Wow. So true story. And this is, again, is again about you know bill evanoff and his great side hustles he always had something else going on he rented his house for the entire summer so the band

could they were rehearsing their tour in toronto and i guess i forget where they rented the space and i might have been at the international center or something like that. And so he's telling me the story. So he says, I've got Pink Floyd at my house. And he said, for the whole summary, he said there was a point where he had to go back to the house. He forgot something. And I think he called ahead or whatever. But he thought, oh, my God, it's Pink Floyd.

What is my house going to be like? He's going to be like? He's going to be like hookers in blow. And the blinds will be closed. Oh, that's Motley Crue. And so he gets there, knocks on the door, he opens the door, and they're like having tea. And they're having biscuits.

And everything's just super mellow. So that's a true story. You've got to diversify your revenue streams. I think he was aware of that. You had to have multiple revenue streams coming in all over the place. Thank Paul Evanoff for confirming that story. I did text out to him the other day going, I just want to confirm, because your dad told me this story about Pink Floyd renting your house. And he's like, yep, yep, it happened. Let me confirm something with you. Will you call for, because I have some IDs that feature people at 108,

so you'll call for certain ones, like the Wayne Williams one or Mastermind or whatever, or Shep or whatever. You can play one of them if you want right now. Okay, I'll play it because you mentioned Wayne Williams. So let's play that one right now. Wayne Williams. Wayne Williams.

On Energy 108 That voice bumper, huh? It's crazy, man. So, and I was big and still have been in radio, a big proponent of personality radio. There were program directors and other people that say, no, you never use the personality, maybe outside, certainly outside of morning shows,

you never use them in IDs. The radio station is bigger than the personalities. And I'm like, you know, that, why not? Like personality to me is a huge part of radio. And it was like, all the jocks are getting IDs. That's going to be in the mix. Now you did have to, you know, you remember these are radio announcers and they have egos. So you had to limit. There were rules. You can only play your ID, like, you know, maximum of three times an hour, because they would play it after every song and then in the middle of a song. You know, so you had to limit it. But Wayne was my partner in crime, and he was the assistant program director,

and we just connected on so many levels, particularly about the vision, where it needed to go. And when it came to music meetings, just every time we looked at each other, we're listening to something and it was always the same, like, yep. Oh, yeah. Well, we got to get Wayne in here. We got to get him back here. Yeah, absolutely. Yes.

When was the last time you talked to Wayne Williams? I keep in touch with him because actually I'm helping a little bit in a small way with a company he is going. It is agency9.ca if you want to check it out. He helps companies with digital advertising and looking right for video and photography and stuff like that. He's also got a very successful, he does a lot of wedding videos and photography.

Some really, really cool stuff he does. But I do keep in touch with him. Well, his name pops up a lot. We've got to get him in here. Absolutely. Okay, so but I do keep in touch with him. Well, his name pops up a lot. We've got to get him in here. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so continue with your origin story there. So when we start, actually, why don't we just go into a song right now because we can start to roll through it

and I'll tell the stories in between the songs. Okay, I'm going to let it breathe a bit before I bring it down because I want to get a feel for this vibe here. I might start dancing. I don't know. Okay, I'm wondering how many of these songs you know. I'll tell you. I'll be honest with you.

You couldn't miss a lot of these. In fact, I will go through. There's only one or two I didn't know. For example, of course I knew this one. I was also a much music guy. Fair enough. Fair enough. What I think is great about this, it really identifies this Euro dance sound,

which I'll get into in a second here, but was a started by a number of producers in Germany, Belgium, some producers in Italy. It's certainly a European thing. And it was this really great formula. It was a high tempo, rhythmic, 130 beats per minute, and very melodic, great hooks, with usually a female singer, and usually often a black female singer, and then there would be very often a black rapper, or somebody rapping in the middle. It was a bit of a formula, but it really worked.

I mean, it just exploded, and I think a lot of artists, you know, Snap were one of the first out of Germany. They were one of the first to do it. And it has that rap. I remember that rap line. I guess it's going to come up. Sirius says cancer.

I'm just lying. Rhythm is a dancer. I can't remember that line, but maybe you're right. Yeah. Well, yeah, it should be here, I think. Depends which version I grabbed. As you know, there's several, but let's hear it. I haven't heard him yet.

Maybe he comes in later. Okay, let him come in. Oh, he should be coming up here, I think. But you're totally correct. I'm thinking is it Black Box? Is that another... They're Italian. I mean, not quite Euro, but more... But yeah, close.

Absolutely. I think the basement at HMV at 333 Yonge Street is where all this was. And I definitely drop by the basement all the time. There you go, yeah. Like Real McCoy and all those hits. So who knows which version I grabbed. Yeah, maybe I grabbed the rap.

There's a lot of, maybe this is a 12-inch, one of the remixes or something like that. Maybe this is not the radio edit. My apologies. But there's definitely a rapper in here. Everyone knows Rhythm is a dancer. Hang on. Maybe you could have had the radio edit.

See, that was another thing about the problem with in the late 80s, well, just 80s period, just hearing rap on the radio. I i mean there was so many of these edits done that took the rap out and you know i wanted to change that and i mean there were there was college radio in toronto you know um ckln and ron nelson and chry and of course a lot of people listening to wblk in the 80s where you could hear um you know a lot of people listening to WBLK in the 80s, where you could hear a lot of music that was not being played in Toronto.

And be honest, the other thing is 70s, 80s FM radio in Canada was run, quite frankly, run by a lot of white guys that grew up on rock. They weren't all like that, know you had that going against you and then you know just there's just general across the board of of uh rap just not a place for it on radio or that's for the clubs you mentioned ron nelson yeah so fantastic voyage was his show on ckln and that's where that's where you know if you talk to a you know maestro fresh west or mishimi or whatever like that's that's that place. Yep. That's where it was happening. Absolutely.

So I didn't get the rapper on this version. My apologies. Not intentional. That's okay. Because I like that rapper. And it definitely has his line, serious as cancer when I tell you rhythm is a dancer. I think everybody knows it. That's quite the line.

Okay. I can't wait. Did you find the next song, by the way? I got everything. Yeah. So here's a song I don't know. Well, you shouldn't. You shouldn't. Yeah, so

Blau, blau, blau Blüten sie ja Wenn beim Alpenglü Wir uns wiedersehen Mit ihren roh, roh, roh Roten Lippen, Fingers an Die ich nie vergessen kann So.

You weren't playing this one on Energy 108. Yes, we were. Wow. So here's the German show story. So when the station was FM 108 playing beautiful music, and I think Bill had allowed some other feature programming on the station, particularly when it brought in money. So, on Sunday mornings, you know, we launched Energy 108 in September of 1992, or I think it was like August 31st, 1992. And I said to Bill, I said, we have this German show on Sunday mornings, you know, can we get rid of that? He says, Scott, do you know how much money that brings in?

So, you know, the average radio station plays maybe about eight minutes of commercials an hour. OK. All right. Yeah. Some maybe 10, maximum maybe 12. You're really pushing at that point. His name is Ziggy, by the way. And a huge following hugely successful he used to play honest to god I mean 20 to 25 minutes

of commercials an hour and he voiced them all and they were all in German yes this is a German language program there's a lot of Germans in Toronto

I think there's there's money in it of course huge and of course when you get to the address, you'd hear it in English or something.

Right. And it was always being, you know, they put the reverb on there. I think some of the Jamaican radio used to do that, but lots of reverb on. So everything was recorded

with reverb. And he almost read every single commercial himself. And it was funny because we all had our little, you know, Honda Civics and that. And he would pull up

on a Sunday to do the show in his, like, brand new Mercedes, you know, honda civics and that and he would pull up on a sunday to do the show in his like brand new mercedes you know dressed immaculately and it was just bringing in a huge amount of money and bill was like scott i just it's too much money says you know if the station you know starts to turn around we'll think about it but they it began a process uh over and i i don't know how many years in maybe a year or so, that we kept dwindling the show down from six hours. I think it was like 6 a.m. to noon. And here's the problem. As the energy started getting more popular,

we started getting phone calls. And the funniest part of the phone calls, people would say, they thought they were doing us a favor, like we didn't know. They said, by the way, just telling you, Sunday morning, on Sunday morning I was listening and there's a station, a German station that's bleeding over you guys.

And they're like really trying to help you out. Did you know that? I'm like, oh, yes, yes, thank you, yes. And then you have people going to clubs and people going to raves. Imagine that, you're coming back from listening to techno at a rave all night. And we're playing techno

and rave and house music overnight. Then 6 a.m. hits on a Sunday morning. Boom. Into this. Play it loud. That's great. This is by Heino. That's the name of this German artist. I don't know if it's Heino or Heino. You can Google him. He was just kind of a

middle-of-the-road performer, singer, and he was massive in Germany. Wow. And so a lot of the music is a certain style. I've forgotten the name of it, but there's a certain style, and that was really big. So Ziggy, who was the host of the show, played a lot of this kind of stuff. I don't know how to pronounce the name of the song.

Blau, Blank, Gerenzingen? Close enough. I think I'll have to ask my buddy Zinger to find out. I used to work for a German software company, but I still couldn't tell you how you pronounce this one. A lot of complaint calls. That German station came over. It was right on top of you guys again.

So while we let Heino finish here, Mark Weisblatt, who has a great newsletter at 1236.ca. He's also a big fan of your work. I am a fan of his as well. He was telling me a little story the other day. We'd speak often

and because that man is a wealth of information. I couldn't do this without great research by Mark Weisblot. But he was telling me that he used to help you copy edit some Energy 108 charts

back in the, maybe the early days of the energy 108 charts. Uh, does this ring a bell? He probably did. Yeah. Cause he was a huge, still as he was a huge fan of the chum charts.

And one of the things he mentioned is that you can't really find the old energy 108 charts. See, I'm all choked up over this. They're not really properly archived anywhere. Do you have them? Could you keep everything? I have some of them. I did bring along...

Is there a close-up? Do you have a zoom on that camera? No, there's no zoom on this camera. This is, I think, this is like the second week in, week of September 14th, 1992, and the number one song, Rhythm is a Dancer.

Rhythm is a Dancer. Oh, snap. Yeah. Number two, End of the Road, Boyz II Men. Well, yeah. Humping Around, Bobby Brown. I remember that. Number three.

And here's some of the rave stuff. The Shaman, LSI, was in there. High Five, She's Playing Hard to Get. Ten City, Little House, My Piece of Heaven. Wow. Yeah. So I guess I'm trying to find out, is there any way, because I just moved my whole Toronto Mike universe

to a new web server, a robust server with a new CMS, and can I help archive these things? Absolutely. But I've got to have the source material. Yeah, and I'm still actually, what I've been doing in the past, since being fired back in November, it's given me all the time to do all this archiving, and I'm still going through, because I hoard a lot of stuff,

collecting a lot of stuff. So I do have a number of charts, but they're all over the place, and they're just random. You know, the chart from the middle of November in 95, whatever. I'm actually surprised, Scott, because you're such a natural-born archivist. I thought you'd have them all in a filing cabinet. Yeah, not that good. You know, I mean, I did keep

stuff, but I threw a lot of stuff out, and it's just kind of piecemeal. It's like a little bit, oh, I just happen to have that, but I don't have the other parts to it. So, you know, I have stuff, but not everything I would like to have now. And of course, back when you throw stuff out, you go, I'm never going to need this. And only later you go, oh my god, I wish

I had that. So let's, just before I play your next jam, real quick, I want to shout out some of the partners here at Toronto Mike that are helping to fuel this real talk and make this happen. And we're just warming up here, folks. This is going to be a wonderful six-hour episode of Toronto Mike. Just kidding. So thanks, of course, to Great Lakes Brewery.

There's that beer. You can take that home with you, Scott. There's some beer on the table for you to take home. Is there anything cold in here by the way? I was going to say, maybe during the next I'm going to start the next jam and I'll run inside and grab you a cold one. I would love a cold one. Do you want a lager? Do you want a pale? Okay, I'll get you a lager

The Vienna lager, I guess I'll just grab you a cold lager. I wasn't sure at this time of day but of course, it's now 11.30 Yeah, of course, of course. So I'll grab you a cold one during the next jam. Palma Pasta, that's authentic Italian food that you really got to give it a

go. Palmapasta.com, StickerU.com, they sent over a Toronto mic to sticker for you, Scott. When you start your new podcast, you got to get some swag. You go to StickerU.com and get some stickers and such, and they're awesome. I've got that on my microphone at home.

Awesome. Well, now you got one for, well, Alan Cross said he was going to put it on his garbage bin. So anyway, Austin Keitner, this man, great real estate agent. Love talking to this guy about Toronto real estate. You should do it too. Just text Toronto Mike to 59559. Talk to Austin from the Keitner Group.

Pumpkins After Dark. Halloween's going to be different this year, and they have a drive-through event in Milton, Ontario. And this is going to be pretty awesome, but the tickets are going to sell out. So basically, I'm telling you now to go to pumpkinsafterdark.com and use the promo code Toronto Mike. You'll save 10%, and it lets them know that, you know, sponsoring Toronto Mike does a smart business move. They're back this year after being on board last year. And get yourself, get your car load. It's all contactless and completely safe. So do that.

If CDN Technologies, they're there if you have any computer or network issues or questions. They're your outsourced IT department. Call Barb at 905-542-9759. I'm actually going to be on a webinar with Barb that's on the 13th at noon. Hi, Barb. Barb, wonderful lady. We're going to co-host that webinar and you can

register now. Go to cdntechnologies.com and garbageday.com. Scott, you've got to go to garbageday.com slash Toronto Mike and sign up for the free curbside collection notifications from garbage day. It's free. It's fun. And it makes you a good FOTM.

You're already a good FOTM, but let's start this jam. And again, and I'm going to let you know the songs. I know very familiar with this song, saw the video a million times and I'm going to start it and grab you a cold beer. All right. Yeah. and I'm going to start it and grab you a cold beer. All right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm the kind of cheater little homies wanna be like on my knees in the night, take a look Still sounds great. Yeah, this is a banger. Coolio.

Huge. So I was at 95. I can't remember. Probably around there. Right. Huge. You know, one of the biggest tracks that year and one of the biggest hip hop tracks. And you know what?

It was important that I wanted to get to kind of the different, you know, we call it a dance music radio station and this is early nineties. So what we meant by dance and that umbrella, what was dance music included hip hop, included R and B included, you know, the Euro dance included house music included, you know, dance hall and reggae included, included R&B, included the Euro dance, included house music, included dance hall

and reggae, included freestyle. I'm trying to get a little selection of everything in German Sunday mornings for a while. So there was just this wealth, and pop music was thrown in too. So that was everything in this mix that had a rhythm to it, that was rhythmic in flavor, and essentially avoided the rock stuff because that was being super served elsewhere. I used to joke that you could listen to energy for four or five hours straight and never hear a guitar. That was part of it.

And we had a lot of people say, you can't do, you know, that's club music. It's only for the clubs. You can't do it on radio. And lots of flack on that and you know lots of flack about rap music and just you know it's funny because all these radio edits where they would take the rap out we wanted the extra rap you know and there was people like mariah carey and i didn't even pick a mariah carey song but she was one of the biggest artists of the 90s and you know she would do a lot of these artists were smart.

They'd go, I'm going to get a rap guy. Old Dirty Bastard. Yes. And make the song, like, it just took it to another level. It changed the whole song for me. Yeah. Give some ODB. And I just hated hearing the non-Dirty Bastard version

or the non-rap versions of songs on the radio. I would just cringe. Right. I would cringe. And these programmers were like, no, we've got to play the no rap edit. Me and Mariah go together like a baby in Pacifier? Oh, yes. Come on.

He was the greatest part of that jam. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. It's like instant. I just read this.

I'm very interested in the charts and how you market an artist and stuff. And Glenn Medeiros. Do you remember Glenn Medeiros? Yes, yes, I do. So he's a Hawaiian guy, but he's actually of Portuguese descent. But basically they were trying to give him a little street cred or whatever, so they teamed him up with Bobby Brown because they wanted Bobby Brown to be more appealing to white radio. Then they throw him together, they get a number one Billboard hit,

and it kind of accomplished both, I suppose, but both goals. But I'm just going to do a couple of shout outs to people because people love hearing their names on the radio. First of all,

just a respect to Chris Alicott, Alicott, who was there. He was a Warner rep. He was working in part of the operations of Dance 108 in the early days. The,

some early announcers, Don Steele and Anne-Marie, were on mornings. Mike Party Dog Divine, Mike Divine. So many of these people became great friends over the years. Wayne Williams we talked about. Billy Howard. So in the early Dance 108 days,

Billy Howard, he was coming back and forth from Buffalo in his van and somehow getting over the border each time. Gary Thomas was doing overnights back then. And of course, I brought in some people from CFNY, Chris Shepard and Pamela Blair, Headley Jones, and I'm thinking, who else do we have? Dr. Trance, of course, Don Burns. Well, let's do some feature shows.

Okay, so Shep, let's listen to another ID here. Okay, yeah. Chris Shepard. Chris Shepard. On Energy 108. 108. And I need an update. Have we tracked him down? No, we have not.

We have not. That's why I have you over all the time. Still a mystery. Costa Rica. If you're going down, I mean, I don't know if he can let you fly into Costa Rica right now. I bet you he could. But just ask around. He's down there somewhere.

You know, he's probably got us. you know, we're all got it wrong. He went down there, and he's stuck down there. It's probably, oh, you're stuck in Costa Rica. How rotten is that? So he's winning, I think, on this. Well, have we considered the— He's having a good time. He might be up in, like, he just might be in Newmarket or something.

Like, I think we might be way off base here. I think he might be living a life in King City or something like that. But when we have a sighting, we will let you know. We will report that. Alright, now set up this. I just to let you know, the last week Farley Flex was on the show, Kicking Out the Jams. And one of

this song you're going to speak to by FOTM, Maestro Fresh West was kicked out last week uh on this very program by uh far reflex so so set the stage here because i did do the editing i only have that okay yeah so the setup on this song it's stick your stick to your vision by maestro fresh west or i think he was just calling himself maestro at the time and of course samples uh guess whose song these eyes um and it was a great combination.

You know, and that's one of the great things hip hop did, particularly when, you know, late 80s, early 90s, a lot of sampling going on before it got really messy. And you could just sample and, you know, try to get away with it. And then, you know, the lawyers step in. So it got a little more difficult. After Paul's boutique, I think. Yeah.

The lawyers chimed in. For sure. But, you know, this is a great example of, you know, how you could just really, and some people thought sampling is not being creative, and I completely disagree. A lot of people did. It's just a way to, and you're creating something new from, you know, just borrowing a little bit. Anyway.

Yeah. What's cool about this. You're talking to a public enemy guy. There you go. They have that great jam too. Absolutely. Sampling sport. Rebel Without a Pause?

Is that the one? I might be messing. Okay, please continue. But I think there were some house music producers in that they were very good at sampling and reworking some stuff. But the hip-hop guys were probably the best at it. But what was really cool about this song,

Stick to Your Vision, is there's a reference to Energy 108 in there. And it's talking about when he was trying to get respect from the labels and of course the labels were not or they were looking the other way or just didn't want to sign a lot of hip-hop artists in canada because there's just lack of radio airplay was one of the excuses and you know so energy came along and you know it kind of kind of changed helped change the game you know there were some again, like talk about college radio,

but you just didn't have that broad reach that a radio station has. And he actually said, there's a line in there where he says, you know, next year change the scenery gave birth to your energy, which is about energy when I wait, which is pretty cool because, you know, how many songs are written about radio stations? You know, Spirit of the Radio written the Radio, written about 102.1. Right, that's the big one. It's really cool.

And then it's like, oh, this was a little line in the song written about energy 108. It's pretty cool. So I guess you can play it now. Here it is. Let's play my joint when I heard protect your neck back in 92. But let's go back to 88. Flemington, Don Mills and Eglinton.

Making beats with Essengel and them. Remember when you labels wasn't feeling me? Next year changed the scenery., gave birth to your energy. Throw a ice to your public enemy. That's Maestro paying homage to you, Scott. That's for you, man. Absolutely. That's pretty damn cool.

Well, the radio station, you know? Yeah, I know. I'm going to say you, though, because you're right here right now. That's a great jam, too. Yeah, so, you know, and we were helping, you know, there weren't many stations and I, you know, also should mention there was, when it was first on the air, Z-103 was called Hot 103. They launched, I think, sometime in 95.

And they were also supporting dance music. I don't think we're, at the time, we're playing as much hip hop as we were, but they were also, and still to this day, in terms of Canadian radio, Z-103 has always been there supporting dance music and rhythmic music more than anybody else. And they kind of were our partner.

We were in the same goal to try to express and showcase some of this music that was just being ignored in Canada for so many years. So anyway, North America's Dance Music Powerhouse. C-I-N-G-F-M-107-9. Energy 108. So here's a song I did not recognize. Oh, good. I was hoping there would be something.

Well, it didn't take that long to get there. It's instrumental, too, so we can actually talk over a chunk of this. So I'm playing this because it kind of represents the rave music that was happening, you know, in raves first started in the UK. Oh, I guess he does talk here. I forgot that. Sort of. no I guess he does talk here I forgot about that part

never heard this oh that's cool very cool anyway huge song at raves and so the rave scene was starting late 80s early 90s in the UK and it was really starting around 91 in Toronto and it was really starting around 91 in Toronto. And it was such a cool and new scene.

Very exciting. And there was a lot of music that was played at raves you really couldn't play on the radio. But what we did, I mean, daytime, we were a little more mainstream. In the evenings, and especially on the weekends, we went all in. We had feature shows like Masterminds, Street Jam, and he played some of the coolest hip-hop on Saturdays. Dr. Trance played trance music. We had Flipside playing Trippin' on Energy, which he played jungle,

he played techno, whatever and so in the evenings you know we would play this in the evenings tell me a little more about don burns so uh of course don burns we know his voice at least i know his voice from cfny uh, he passed away, I don't know, five years ago or maybe longer now. I'm not even... Yeah, I think it's been five years. Yeah. And he, of course, was at CFNY. Big part, he was ex-program director there for a while.

And just an amazing friend. And kind of a voiceover guy. Like if you know some of the old... He had one of the big voices. Right. He did. He did. He had one of the big voices.

Right. He did. He did. And, you know, when those end days of the spirit of radio days where, you know, where program music was coming in and there was, you know, a change of direction and a change of how the station was going to be into a new era, which was all fine. But, you know, Don didn't want any part of that, and some of us didn't want to be part of that, too. You know, he didn't want to be seeing music being programmed.

So he bowed out, and he got into the rave scene, and started a rave company with DJ Ian and a few other friends. And I'm just trying to remember the company right now. Because it was Atlantis at one point. It was also, it'll come back to me in a second. But he started this rave company. And he was one of the first. And loved the scene, loved the music.

And I invited him to come on. I said, why don't you do a show and just play all this rave music. And he particularly liked trance music. So he kind of leaned towards trance. And he had lots of DJs and guests on on a Saturday night. It was fantastic. I think this is where it really kicks in. You can turn it up here. Yeah, when you see like 5,000 ravers losing their head when that drops, it's just, there's nothing quite like it. Especially with assistance from...

Yes, yes. Medicinal assistance, perhaps. Yeah, and you know, ecstasy, or do they still call it Molly? What do the kids call it today? Do they change the name again? I'm not a kid, I don't know. My teens haven't filled me in yet. Okay.

Pleading ignorance. Keep an eye on that. I will. I'll let you know, though. So, you know, MDMA, Ecstasy, was a part of the scene. It was a pretty big part of the scene. Not everybody did it, and it wasn't for everybody. But it was, there was something about, and I think this was partly what Chris Chris Shepard when he was talking to some doctors and some scientists

that when you're on E there's certain frequencies and like for example if you're on an E and you play ACDC everything stops it's just not happening it's just for some reason, but you play trance and techno, uh, certain, certain frequencies and sounds are just enhanced like

any sort of stimulant and drug. It enhances, uh, and it works particularly well with this kind of music. And I think Chris was onto that and thought, you know, is there a way to treat some people that have certain conditions? And I believe that there are a lot of studies now back in play for MDMA, where it was like sort of banned and it was a bad thing for so many years that they are now like this actual, you know, sanctioned case studies going on because it, it really,

the one thing about it, and I think where they say there's the really, the one thing about it, and I think they say the rumor of the name came from, the ecstasy came from the term empathy. Because if you're on MDMA, everything's all right in the world. And you have this incredible empathy for the world and everybody, and you want to hug everybody. And this is, you have first-hand knowledge of this did you uh participate in this ritual yes so uh yes so i i can i can't admit to that you know there's actually a funny story and this song is actually part of it so we

had um back in these days it's like early 90s we didn't have automated systems and radio today you know you don't have to have and radio today. You know, you don't have to have anybody in the building overnights or weekends. If you don't want. You just load it up. Yeah. It just runs itself. Well, in the early nineties, you didn't have that. You had to have an operator.

So every radio station had an operator and we had this guy, a number of operators, but one guy named Robert Keene, who was, I think it was Jamaican descent and, or from the Caribbean, a hilarious guy, but he was one of our operators. And so overnights he was in charge of just keeping an eye on things and making sure we didn't go off the air. But you know, Robert had a daytime job too, right? And he was always busy. And so it's Tuesday night. Um, I'm hanging out with party dog, Mike Devine.

Don't ask me why it's a Tuesday night, but it's a Tuesday night and we're up a little late and we're partying. So, um, it's, I don't know, like two in the morning or something. And we're listening to energy one,

oh eight. And I like, oh, you know, I really want to hear higher state of consciousness. So, you know, I'm the PD. I'll just phone the station. Right. You know, and then, and Robert want to hear higher state of consciousness. So, you know, I'm the PD.

I'll just phone the station. Right. You know, and Robert answers. Yes, Scott. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Right, Scott. And he always, see, the one thing about Robert is he sometimes falls asleep.

Okay. So what two things happen when you called Robert and he was operating, two things would happen, especially if you're the PD. He would talk faster and talk louder. Right. Almost like to say to, hey, I'm here. I'm good scott hey man come on come on so i called robert i said hey robert could you um could you play tires state of consciousness uh josh wink for me oh yeah sure man no problem okay hang up the phone literally three seconds later the song that's playing on the air that's not even halfway through, right off the air, like a moment of silence,

and on comes higher state of consciousness. I had to phone him back a few minutes later. I go, Robert, that's awesome, man, but I didn't mean right away. Just let the song that's on the air finish, please. It's a true story. You say jump, he said how high and he literally did fall asleep a couple of times god bless him great guy he did because we'd be coming back i'd be coming back from club gigs we all did you know alan cross and it was talking about that with a

lot of us from those late 80s and into the 90s right cf and why we did a lot of club gigs and certainly at energy oh my god right that was in response to the Brother Bill comments that he wasn't there. So, and there was a lot. And some of us were doing, you know, Wednesday night, Thursday night, you know, Friday night, Saturday night. And we would even do, we'd have live to airs. You know, on Energy, we had live to airs going from Wednesday

right through Sunday. And even that point, it got so crazy at this point, we were doing live to airs after the live to airs. So we'd do a live to air on Friday or Saturday night, and then we'd go to another club from 2 a.m. to 4 a.m. Remind me, how lucrative was this again? That's why the calculation is here. We were billing about $4,000 to $5,000.

And you got spots with that, so you got commercials with that. Right. And you would still have to pay the DJ. Well, that would be good today. That's good money. You add that up. So that's Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday night live to airs,

sometimes two on a Friday or Saturday. Do the math on that. Well, that's why you went out and got yourself DJ Trance and Shep. Well, and that's part of the way we paid for these people. And, you know, this is, you know, Bill Evanoff, God bless and rest in peace, Bill. But, you know, he was a thrifty, you know, good businessman or thrifty businessman. I have friends who've worked for the Evanoff Group and I've heard they're not loose with the wallet.

And that's a little bit of a misunderstanding sometimes because he was certain things. If he really believed in it and, you know, because he did at one point when the station was starting to really pop, you know, he gave me a really nice raise and he was good to me. But, you know, he could be a little bit thrifty. And, you know, I come from a Scottish background, so I know thrifty very well. But we all made money from the clubs. We made more money. A lot of us, the on-air people made.

And I was doing on-air as well as program director. We made more money in the clubs than we did on the air. But it was a good time. And a lot of cash. Those were good times. But just going back to Robert, there was a couple times where he did fall asleep. And I would be driving home from a club gig. And we're off the air and i'd phone and he'd

always answer the phone like oh yeah great no man and then you hear the song oh that's back on the air yeah when i hear a story like that i think of my uh my friend and client peter gross who uh when he came on toronto mike then i asked him straight up why were you let go from uh 680 news he was doing sports updates every on 680 News for years. He said, well, he deserved it because a couple of times they threw to him to do sports and he was sound asleep. And this is not in the middle of the night. This is

morning drive. Wow. He said he would get comfortable in that early morning in that chair. Anyway, that's Peter Gross' story. Hey, you mentioned Mastermind. I'm just going to play another ID here. Yep, yep.

Mastermind. Mastermind. On Energy 108. 108. Yeah, and I talked, you know, one of the amazing things about Paul that because, again, this is, you know, early 90s, he would come in

because his show was Saturday nights I think at 6 or 7 or something he did his hip hop show on Saturdays he'd come in like you know late morning and be there all afternoon because he'd have the latest tracks he had a lot of connections with labels and artists in New York and he you know

because a lot of these tracks and the vinyl especially you know there were no radio edits. I mean, this is hip hop. Right. And some of it really hard. So he would sit there and he'd record them onto tape. And then you take a piece of tape.

For those that know this or don't know this, you take a piece of tape and you just turn it around backwards. So, and that was the way he would do that. He would record an entire track take the uh dirty word and reverse it so and so he could play it on the radio he spent hours doing that wow it's amazing and famous uh and there's actually some photos around too and when you get paul on on the and paul is mastermind for those who don't yes mastermind he uh russell peters was a good friend of his he used to hang out in the studio all the time, the comedian Russell Peters,

and he was a big hip-hop fan, and he loved Mastermind. He'd be in the studio as Mastermind was, you know, when he had to talk on the show, Russell would, you know, run the breaks in the background with the turntables. We had turntables in the studio. Wow.

It was pretty cool. Because you know who Russell Peters brings on tour with him as his DJ? Yeah, starting from scratch. Starting from scratch. Absolutely, yeah. And back to Mastermind, I guess I'm curious to your thought. I have to ask you what your thoughts are on this because you were with Flow. So how long has it been since you were with Flow?

So a few years ago now. And it was short. I mean, it was there a year and a half. And, you know, it's back to Flow now, which I'm really happy it is. Again, we need a station like that in Toronto, but it just kind of went through. This is what's tough. You start messing with a brand.

I mean, you're trying to, and there's always a force to try to make more money and take it to another level, but it's so tricky and if you say mess with a brand especially with a music uh a music type that people are really passionate about is you've got to be really careful it's not an easy crowd to please sometimes um and so you know flow has had its challenges up and down and uh yeah well recently uh as you know uh they took the morning show yes was blake carter and peter cash and they moved it to become the afternoon show yeah which of course meant uh mastermind uh was uh relieved of his duties after many many years

there really sad because he's so i mean he will he'll he'll surface somewhere else and he's such a big part of the scene the hip-hop scene in Toronto. I mean, you know, one of the legends. Right. That doesn't mean you're all fault. I guess this is a long-winded way of saying, what do you think about Flo having a syndicated U.S.-based morning show? I'm not a fan at all. I don't like that about any Canadian radio station,

and particularly in, you know, I'd and in any, particularly in, you know, I'd say in any market. I mean, particularly in the medium to small markets, you don't want a station, a show from out in another market.

You really need to be local and should be local and that's my, you know, stand on that. I just don't like it. And as good as they are and yes,

they have big guests and everything, but they're not Toronto. No, they're New York, right? Yeah, it. And as good as they are, and yes, they have big guests and everything, but they're not Toronto. No, they're New York, right? Yeah, it's like, you know, yeah. Not a fan. Alright. They're a good show, but... Yeah, yeah, this isn't

about the quality of the show, but the morning drive show on Flow should be live and local. Right? Right. It's Toronto mic'd. And we're in Toronto. And you are from Toronto. You live in Toronto. The? It's Toronto mic'd, and we're in Toronto, and you are from Toronto. You live in Toronto. The show's in Toronto.

I love that. Right. New Toronto, and you can verify that because you just drove here, so not mimical. We're in Etobicoke. All right, next jam. Let's kick it. Oh, again, another song I'm not familiar with.

Good, good. I've stumped you twice. This is good. Well, the German song stumped me, too. I should give a shout-out to Tony Monaco. And he's Mr. Freestyle. I haven't said hi to some other people, too. Lars.

Big part of energy. Kathy Wall. Sue B. Freestyle. I haven't said hi to some other people, too. Lars. Big part of energy. Kathy Wall. Sue B. Harry Bird. I always like saying that. Harry Bird. Richard Carell. Tom Allen.

Tony Monaco, who's now doing mornings for Z. He did some on-air shifts for energy. He's been there forever. For a while. Yeah. I mean, that guy's still going strong. I tried to get him on Toronto Mike, and he took a kind pass.

Oh, no. I know. What's that about? Come on. You came and turned and looked my way. What else can I say? It does ring a bell, like when I hear it. Love is in my eyes. I think I know it, but I don't know it well enough to be sure I know it.

If that makes sense. Wait for the chorus. With your love so sweet Give your love to me Take me, take me in your arms Little Suzy. Lil. Take Me In Your Arms, Little Suzy. So that represents freestyle.

And a couple things about freestyle. First of all, you talk about hip-hop artists being so passionate. Oh, I think second next in line from hip-hop are the freestyle fans. We certainly discovered that with Energy and Hot and Hits and Z. z also has been a big supporter of freestyle music but there is just a contingent of these freestyle bands oh my god are they passionate they are so fanatical so uh we discovered that you know there's the people who love that so we had to we played some of that on the air i actually found that song when i was uh discovering bumper at power Pig in Florida

because freestyle in Florida is a big thing, and they were playing it on Power Pig, and I'm like, this is a cool track. And we were one of the stations in North America to help break that song. Yeah, like I'm vaguely familiar with it. You know, freestyle is kind of closely connected to electro, electro funk. I dig it though. It's got a certain groove. It sounds great.

Yeah, it's fun to dance to. You want to dance? Lil Suzy, yeah. So what year are we talking for Lil Suzy? This would have been, I think it came out in like 1991.

But it's one of those songs it came out in like 1991, so, but it, one of those songs that came out and it took a while for it to really kick in, but we played it, I think, from the get-go

when we launched Energy, so in 92 that was being played, although I think it officially was released around 1990. Now, real quick,

while we get a beat there behind us, can I get a very brief, I'm naturally curious, an update on the cycling? Because I, as you know, I bike every day. Yes, you do. But I don't do the long rides. In fact, my buddy wants me to ride around the city with him.

And it's like, I don't know, 140K or something, which I'm probably going to end up doing because... What's the longest ride you've done? Well, I did the ride to conquer cancer, which was 125. Because we went to Milton and then across to Mohawk College. Up there. How'd you do going up that hill, up to the college? Yeah, not bad, considering I did it on a $500 giant hybrid and I didn't have any clipless pedals or anything and I didn't have any special shorts or anything. Well, that's like Earl Veal, my cycling buddy. He's got a hybrid

bike and his bike is like eight pounds heavier than mine. And he's amazing. And I'm like, don't get a carbon bike. I keep telling him, don't get a carbon bike. You're going to smoke me. Yeah, like I've always, I mean, I drive a, in fact, I'm just looking over. But it's actually like the frame of that bike. Do you see that bike that's just sitting in the garden kind of rusting away?

Oh, yeah, yes, yes. Like it's like I put it up like as a monument. But that's my Ride to Con, that bike. Do you see that bike? That's just sitting in the garden, kind of rushing away. Like, it's like, I put it up like as a monument, but that's my ride to conquer cancer bike. And I've upgraded since then, but only a little bit. But I did that ride a couple of times too. So I've been following you and you're cycling though.

You've been doing some long rides. So I did, it was the first time in like eight years, I did a hundred K, uh, the other day. And I think, you know,

it's just one of those things you just want to do. It's like a hundred K. Yeah. just want to do it's like 100k yeah you got to do it yeah it's a metric though like the century rides I've never done a century ride nor do I want to and I as I tell the story every time about 100 kilometers I'll be honest you know what a good long ride is 75 80k after that it's just awful I just want to go home so what is it awful about it because here my experience having done that 125 and then you sleep in the tent and then the very next day you do like 100 and a bit home right so and much easier going home because it's downhill and stuff but

the uh i remember having a pinched nerve in my back and then i took a couple of weeks off to because it really did i would sting like i had this pinched nerve. And I made a decision then, and this is going back five years or something, I was going to cap my rides at 60k. And I've kept it. That's actually smart. I really, depending on your age, and I think as I'm old guy now, that it's really

not smart to do these big, long rides. I might do the odd one, but a long ride, I'm going to cap it at about 70 and 80. Because after that, my back really starts to hurt and my knee this time really started to hurt. What's the point of these? It's like climbing Mount Everest. It's dangerous.

You don't need to do that. Plus, I did a lot of climbing. It was over 900 meters. It was over 900 meters and 100 kilometers. That paid the price. I felt that one. Well, good on you for doing it, though. I love following along with your cycling,

and I see you got the cycling shirt. We'll take a picture afterwards so people can see that if they didn't like it. I still am nowhere near the kilometers. The Ks you're putting in is outstanding. But it's only because I do it every day. Good for you, man. 30 a day, like it's my medicine, basically.

So after you leave here today, I'll go for a 30K ride. Absolutely. A little warm out today, but yeah. I like it, though. I like the sweaty, hot ride. Oh, good. Well, you're down by the lake here, too, so it's a little bit cooler, which is nice. Yeah.

Right. Good for you. All right, thanks. And just before I play this next jam, which is so familiar to me that I used to put it on mixtapes, I liked it so much. So this one, I really did. Oh, yeah. But first, I want to play a Street Beat promo here.

Okay. New music. Music news. Remixes. Interviews. Club and concert listings. And concert announcements. This is Street Beat.

Exclusive property of Energy 108. Okay, so tell me about Street Beat. Love that bumper voice. So it was a, you know, and if you remember before I was talking about, we had, and I can't remember when the regulations changed, but in radio, we had this foreground. You had to have so many hours. And you were the master of this.

Yeah, mosaic and foreground programming. And I was the director of that at CFNY. And I learned a few tricks. And the trick was really is finding something interesting that would be still, you know, appealing to a large audience, but you're also getting away with it being a mosaic or foreground program. And they put these rules in place to make FM different than AM radio. And the other thing about the rules that CRTC, the Canadian Radio and Television Commission,

you know, they're a funny bunch of people because I think they're trying to do good things, but they're not always in touch with what's going on, so you kind of have to keep in touch with them and advise them on things. But they had put another non-hit rule, so this was like 1975, to protect AM radio,

because 1975 and FM, and people are predicting, FM's going to be this big thing someday. It's starting to grow and all these AM operators like the evil FM radio. It's like streaming now, right? The evil FM radio is going to take over.

And so what they did to protect AM radio is said, okay, we're going to make sure that FM radio can only play, I think it's 50 or 49%, 50% hits. And the hit rule, I mean, it it had to a hit had to enter the had to be top 40 on billboard or top 40 on the canadian chart or whatever it was so you get like album oriented so yeah it forced fm to play some album tracks and that sort of thing and um that

was in place for a while so that kept am radio strong and sort of the mosaic and programming foreground rules were to keep FM a little bit different so that AM would have a longer life and be financially viable for a further length of time. So the work around that, and see one of my proposals to Bill Evanoff about energy, was I said, and that's why there weren't many top 40 stations in Canada, certainly on FM in the early 90 90s because there was this rule, how can we be a hit station? We can only play half hits.

So when did the rule change? 97, I think. Around 97. Around 97, I believe. Interesting. So I had come from CFNY where we were playing lots of imports, and, you know, things like, you know things like you know uh howard jones new song you know some people oh that's new wave and that's some weird new wave stuff but no no it's it's also

a hit record like in the uk it was like you know number two on the charts or something on the mainstream charts so i'd come from cf and y wait a minute here. We can be still, quote unquote, you know, very accessible mainstream top 40-ish with Energy 108. We'll just play European hits because they're not hits in North America or it'll take them forever to become a hit, you know. Right. And so that's how we got away with it because we just like, you know, they're hits. Smart. No, they're just ahead of the curve and it was like so easy and we just so i mean it drove the record company's

little nuts because we started playing imports and they're like wait a minute you can't play ace of bass that's not coming out till next year i'll go well it's on the air sorry and and sometimes we had to advise them because we would find these imports, and, you know, sometimes the DJs had stuff, and we'd discover this stuff, and we'd play it on the air, and we would sometimes tell the record company, you know, we're playing this track,

and people are, the phones are going crazy, and they're like, what is it? And they'll look up, they're going, oh, yeah, we've got this scheduled to come out in about a year. And I'm like, well, you know, but we're playing it. Right. So, you know, but we're playing it. Right.

So, you know, but we did, you know, we worked closely with the record company, so we tried to find peace. Right. Well, hey, you did tease a song that's coming up after this song, but I'm going in order here. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's true.

It's okay, but here, let's kick out, because this is a song I really thoroughly enjoyed. So here we go. Yeah. really enjoyed. So here we go. What I know but murder she wrote Murder she wrote Murder she wrote Murder she wrote Action on the name A pretty face and bad character

Them the kind of living can't hold chaka Follow me A pretty face and bad character Them the kind of living can't hold chaka Say girl you're pretty You face it pretty But your character dirty Girl you're just a act too Flirty, flirty You run to Tom Dick And all so hurry Oh, man, still sounds great.

Oh, that's great. Bringing me right back, Scott. I love it. You know, it's important that, so, Shaka Demas and Pliers, Murder, She Wrote, that represents, you know, the reggae, the dance hall. You know, one of the really cool, unique things about Toronto, and I discovered a few things

because I went on a fact-finding mission in the late 80s. I took a sabbatical off CFNY for about a month, and I had this, you know, again, I was still wanting, it was a dream of mine to do a station that was playing a lot of this kind of music that wasn't being played enough in Toronto. And so I went to a few markets where, you know, some of the biggest black stations in America. I went to V103 Atlanta, WUSL in Philly, WYYU in Baltimore, WKYS in Washington. I called ahead and, you know, talked to them about,

because these are big stations. And, you know, one of the things I learned about the U.S. is that, you know, it's different. These stations are different than the Toronto makeup because we had all these other different factors. And one of them was that I discovered some of these urban, these black stations were not playing much reggae. You know, Toronto's got this huge Caribbean community, right? Which a lot of these cities in the U.S. don't.

And I was really stunned by that. I go, wow, you guys don't play reggae. Oh, no, no, we don't play reggae. And I'm like, wow, okay, well, Toronto loves reggae. You know, and not just the Caribbean community. Everybody else does. So that was one thing. The other thing I discovered, uh v103 atlanta

was in a lot of these adult 2554 radio stations um did not play you know rap or hip-hop they played on a mix show on the weekends and stuff but a lot of them had these um quiet storm broadcasts so from like honestly from like seven to midnight it was like all luther vandross and these really you know chilled kind of um rmb songs right and they were huge the ratings were huge so that was one little detail i left out when i came back and for energy i didn't want to tell bill you know we could make a fortune playing Quiet Storms at night because I thought that's boring. Yes. It's like Venus

Flytrap, right? Well, that's true. That's the only thing I learned about U.S. urban black radio. It's funny because you did your month's sabbatical, but I've been having on people like the DJ Ron Nelsons and Mishimis and stuff, having these conversations.

And absolutely, that was the Toronto rap difference is that we would, the Caribbean influence. And Mishimi, look no further. Listen to some Mishimi. That's like ragged death. Toronto is so unique. And I think why there's a little bit of all of that and all the people that have put us on the planet.

Okay, so now I need to ask you, did you ever play, and I'm sure you did, but Rumble MC's Safe? Do you remember Rumble MC's Safe? I know I'm putting you on the spot here. I'd have to hear it. If I heard the song, I'd remember offhand. Maybe try and pull it up. I'm going to pull it up on YouTube here real quick. So, you know, the...

I'm looking for Rumble, if you know where he is. You know, the funny thing is there's so many different genres within genres like when you look at um you know reggae there are so there's so many different types of reggae and we had junior chung who was already at um dance 108 when became energy 108 he was actually the program director and i was assistant and then i would eventually take over and he you know he was a Chinese Jamaican I learned a lot about Jamaica uh and there was all this this great um uh you know there's a lot of history of Jamaica you know of course the UK was um they broke from UK at some point but there was a lot of Chinese Jamaicans there and one thing I remember talking to him going oh yeah what about ska music and one thing I didn't realize was that you you know, ska started before reggae started.

But what some older Jamaicans like is some of that softer lover's rock kind of stuff. Sure. You know, there's the dance hall. That's the cool stuff. Oh, yeah, I know this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We'll give it a little taste here. I know this. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I haven't heard this in a this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll give it a little taste here. I know this. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, I haven't heard this in a while. Oh yeah. This is like an homage, a sample or whatnot of Massive Attack. I believe this is the Margaret Young part. Like, I love this so much, Scott.

You have no idea. That's cool. Give him a moment here. And then a gal just me, and say, wait Are you the rock? I'm off the Rumble MC Cha, hear me now That's right, that's me, ooh-wee Baby, she just push me from the wall I'm promising me Everybody did a bubble in the vicinity But I broke out about 3.30

It was between two rival passes The most I've ever seen A crack in the neighbor Don't you see the game? I just drive it like I'm out of the party But then someone followed Let them have who's it? Bam, bam So that's MC Rumble. Yeah. And such a part of Toronto. And it was great to have that.

And we had the feature shows where you go a little deeper. I mean, Junior Chung had a show. And also, you know, Headley did a show and, uh, Headley. Yes. And, uh,

some other shout outs quickly. We have some time. I love the show. And we're a night I listened to recently. You know, he mentioned energy when he was on Larry silver. Yeah. It's a six 80.

He, uh, we brought him in for a while. Uh, Mike girl, Kenny B who stole, does, uh,

radio up in Ottawa. Um, our producers, Johnny Q., Jay Tufford. Dan Tuchek, he's the voice of CP24. Oh, okay. He came out of energy. Wow. Yeah. But Anwar Knight, I called him, I asked him, I said straight up,

like, no way your name is Anwar Knight. And he says that was his name. And I don't believe it because no way would a guy doing DJ work at night be coincidentally have the last name Knight. Like, I just didn't believe him. Yeah, it did happen. Okay. I took it.

He was also on Train 48. So shout out to Train 48. Listen, it was really cool. I didn't realize all the other things he had done. Just another quick shout out to producer Wade Taylor, Wado, who actually does production for Chum. I always want to say Chum FM, but it's Chum now. Yeah, they rebranded it. And Virgin as well.

Okay, I love the shout-outs. And Karen Steele too. She's at PD of Virgin. She actually worked in promotions at Energy for a while. Wow. All right, my friend. We actually, you mentioned this band. What's our time, by the way?

How far are we in? Tell me we're less than two hours, please. Oh, we're at 1.23. We're actually going to be fine. We're going to be barely over 90 minutes here, but only three more jams to go. Let's kick out this one. And yes, I know this jam. Good, yeah. I don't think you could avoid this one. When she woke up late in the morning light And the day had just begun

She opened up her eyes and thought Oh, what a morning It's not a day for words It's a day for catching time Just lying on the beach and having fun She's going to get you All that she wants is another baby She's going to get you All that she wants Is another baby

She's gone tomorrow, boy All that she wants Is another baby All that she wants Is another baby See that bass line? They owe a huge check to Jamaica. Do-do-do-do

And that was very, you know... And we play Ace of Base, All That She W she wants to represent the pop, the pure pop that was a part of energy. They had, you know, had a rhythmic feel to it. And they were, you know, the genius of writing great pop songs that used that, you know, that reggae kind of bass line. So well produced, the hooks, the singing, like just perfect pop songs. And this is one of those cases of a song we were playing on import. And I think I had called the record company to say, you know, we're getting tons of calls on this. People love this.

It's huge. And I think what had happened is Clive Davis in the U.S. was on to it and said, we're going to hold the record back from release because we're going to rework the album. Because album sales, CD sales are huge at that time. So it was being held back, but we kept playing it. But I think we held back on playing the other big hit. What was the other big hit? Yeah, the follow-up was a big jam. Yeah, I was like, yeah, I'm thinking of it right now. You keep talking, I'll find it. But there were, yeah, there was, you know, and I'd say Ace of Base,

and then there, Hathaway, other artists. The Sign. Yeah, The Sign, Ace of Base, there we are. And, you know, Clive Davis, to his credit, you know, put it together, put the right package together, and they just began. That album was absolutely enormous in the 90s. And so there were a number of artists that, you know, we were first in North America to play and break.

And that's pretty cool. This is around the time I'm thinking the dance mix compilations coming out from Much Music, right? Oh, yes. Huge. I mean, when you talk about cd sales you know cds kind of started to be mass produced around the mid 80s and there was this trajectory you know they just kind of grew and i think when you get to about in the mid 90s cd sales were just astronomical they got half my income like uh that's for sure half my income would go to Sam's and H&B oh yeah and A&A downtown

now this song coming up I brought up those compilations because I had a couple I don't know like I don't know Dance Mix 96

or 97 I don't even know but one of the ones had this jam on it and I really dug it and you know this oh I do know this so let's kick out

this jam for Energy 108. And I think this version was recorded from the vinyl, so you get those pops. Yes, yes. Thank you. Follow me Follow me Follow me Follow me

Follow me Follow me Follow me, yeah Follow me, follow me, yeah, follow me I'm hoping to see the day When my people can all relate We must stop fighting To achieve the peace That was taught in our country

We shall all be free Follow me Very nice song. Isn't it cool? Yeah. And that represents, that's where some people say, Elias or Alias, Follow Me, huge house track, and very unique to Toronto. This track was just huge, from the clubs to just people loving this track,

and we supported it on the radio. We played it. This one might have even got daytime play as well, too, which is you just don't hear that kind of music on radio. So we were pretty proud of that. And, you know, house music was,

you know, such a huge scene in Toronto and part of the raves as well too. And yeah, just a great track, just a great track, which reminds me of live dares too. You know, we play a lot of this kind of stuff at live to airs.

And there was one story about, we had this, in order to do these broadcasts, they had these machines called Zephyrs. So it was the way that I think it took the ISDN lines. I hope I'm getting too technical for people. But there was this technology called ISDN. Yes. Which I guess kind of compressed the signal and sent it through, you know, telephone wires. So at the other end, you could uncompress it and get that full stereo sound.

So the live-to-airs, thanks to ISDN and these Zephyrs, I guess that's the brand name of the machine, just made the music sound great, like rather than this mono, you know, shitty sound. So it was very, very full. Anyway, we did a couple of live to airs. We did one which had never been done before, live from a rave. And our craziest adventure, we did one once in Atlanta,

but our craziest adventure was Rimini, Italy. The club scene in Italy was fantastic. And there's an area of Italy called Rimini that is kind of the party town. And there was this famous club called the Cocorico, which was this pyramid and it was all glass, this pyramid on top of a hill. Six thousand people. And Jay Tufford, our producer slash operator, wingman, will do anything. Said, listen, can you bring a Zephyr over to Italy? There's a bunch of us going to Italy to this conference.

And we're going to go to this club. And we're thinking we'll do a live to air from the club. And so he traveled on a plane all the way over to Italy. And it took him a while to find us and brought this machine. And we were able to do a live to air from Italy. And it took him a while to find us and brought this machine. And we were able to do a live to air from Italy. It was hilarious. I love it when you tell me how the sausage is made, man. That's what I'm looking for.

And I don't think that was too technical because I mean, I think anyone who heard, I don't know, for example, Maureen Holloway calling in from home to be on Derringer's show or something like that knows it was an ISDN line. Right. This is the technology that made that possible.

I don't know what it stands for. ISDN is probably some technical term. Oh, probably. And I suppose technology has advanced to a point now where you don't need an ISDN line to accomplish the same thing, I would guess. Correct. Yes. Yes. I believe so.

I believe so. A couple more shout outs to my good friend, James D Correct, yes, yes. I believe so. I believe so. A couple more shout-outs to my good friend James Doman, who was my DJ for many years, the Energy Days, who's a great producer, has done a lot of things, does a lot of remixes and producing for other people. I mentioned,

yeah, we mentioned, did we mention Mary Ellen at a time? This is later years. No, talk, because just yesterday, no, on Twitter yesterday, somebody mentioned Mary Ellen Men a time? This is later years. No, talk, because just yesterday, no, on Twitter yesterday, somebody mentioned Mary Ellen Benninger on Energy 108, and I mentioned that she was married to Alan Cross. Yes.

And she was actually on Energy for a short period of time. You know, there's sort of two eras of Energy. There was 1992 to 1997, and 1997 Shaw came in and bought the station and took it in another direction. And Big D, I think, was part of that. And Nicholas Piklis, we're going to play a clip. We'll do that after this. Yeah.

Also, shout out to Sam Cook, who teaches and does radio down in Niagara region. Rory O'Shea was on the air with us. Mark Panopoulos is the guy that's been there from the FM 108 days, who's, I think, still at 95.3 Energy Hamilton. Right, because they switched signals at some point, C-I-N-G, and there's a whole swap or whatever. Yes, that's true. Just to keep things super complicated there.

Manuel Canales, who was the general manager that took over after Bill Ivanoff. So a shout out to him. Dean Sinclair. John Ducolo. There's a number of people, sadly. I love the show. We lost recently. Bill Ivanoff, of course.

John Ducolo, which was his great partner and a great guy, was our sales manager. We lost him. Sandra Carusi worked in sales. We lost her. She was great. She worked with us for a number of years. You know, Pat Cardinal, at the very, very end of energy, was PD for a very short period of time. He passed away.

Norm B. was a guy from the early days of energy that came on from the FM 108 days. He passed away. I apologize if I forgot anybody else. Oh, Robert J. was another on-air person that we lost quite a few years back now. Yeah, it's kind of sad because the station, it's not that long ago we're talking. It's sad that you have to talk about people who are no longer with us. But I'm glad you're shouting them out. And I'm going to play one more ID before we talk about this Nicholas Pickless.

Yeah. No floppy disks. We're all hard drive. Energy 108. 108. You know, I'll admit, there were some really goofy ones. I might have written some of them. I may or may not have written a couple of those.

And Bumper, our voice guy there, he wrote a few. But actually, maybe now that we're in a bit of a somber moment, I wanted to play this clip. Let me set this up. Do you have it? I'm all set. You set it up because, yeah, you're right. Somber moment indeed.

This is a clip from September 11th, 2001. Yeah, so these are the, you know, energies near its end, and we have Nicholas Pikulis, who I actually worked with at CFNY. I remember him at CFNY, y he was i remember him and he also had a show on ytv with liza fromer yes that's video arcade top 10 or something of that effect yeah and then he went on to work at kiss in buffalo and i think he's still there he might be still there and he we had him we we decided to bring him up because some people especially uh certain parts of southern ontario listen to Kiss, especially when there weren't, you know, top 40 stations in Ontario to listen to.

And he came up and he did mornings for a bit. And everybody remembers that day. And we're coming up on the 20th anniversary, actually. It was, yeah, 2001, right? Well, yeah, you got 13 months, guess before you're uh so this this clip is um you know we had just heard we're i'm getting calls i i was got into the radio station as quickly as possible getting calls that there's been this um a plane has crashed into a building in in new york and um nicholas i believe it's his sister or his sister's friend and he's able to get her on

the phone because he knows that she lives there and she actually lives in one of the high rises there and and I just talking about this already the hair on the back of my neck is standing up because in this call listen through to this call because about halfway through the call the second plane hits. Wow. Anyway, go ahead. Tell me exactly what you saw this morning. All I know is that this morning I was opening up, you know, the business, and all of a sudden the place, you'd heard this big boom,

and the place started shaking, you know, so I thought we were having, you know, an earthquake or something. I mean, the windows started shaking. The building actually shook. And it sounded like it was right on our street. And, you know, I was like, what happened? People were looking out their windows and everything. We were trying to yell down in the street, what happened? All we heard were, you know, police were, like, going all over the place.

And then I came out into the hallway. I saw the super. And I was like, you know, what happened? And then he's like, someone, you know, blew up the World Trade Center or something like that. Okay, a plane has crashed into the World Trade Center. And we're looking, you know, like we have a balcony here. The paper, you know, is flying all into our balcony, our yard and everything. And we, you know, we're...

Oh, my God! Oh, my gosh! Oh my gosh! Oh my gosh! What happened? What was that? Oh my gosh! What happened, Allegra? Something just blew up.

Are you okay? Yes. I was just looking outside and something just blew up. Now it's now it's the second building also. The second building also is now. Oh my gosh. I want to make sure everyone comes here safely, though, you know. Oh, my gosh. Allegra, I'm going to let you go, okay? Go take care of stuff. Thank you. Okay.

Bye. Wow. Yeah, isn't that something? That was live on the air. It's not. I got the chills because I, you know, I'm of an age where I remember that day very clearly. I was working in an office building.

It was truly frightening. It really was. And you didn't know the sensation of, we don't know what happens next. And it was really fucking scary. It was, it was huge. And the other thing that was really strange about that day for us at

energy is Pat Cardinal was our PD at the time, and he was on the tarmac. He happened to be in New York. He was on the tarmac waiting to take off, and we had talked to him, too, because he didn't know what was going on, and we're seeing it on television. And he, luckily, was able to get up and get into the air and get back in time because, as you know, all the flights were eventually grounded that day. I mean, a crazy day and now we're gonna play a jam with the lyric uh blow up like the world trade do you know that is that in this song yeah i didn't plan that honestly because the first world trade center bombing remember the truck underneath it so he's speaking about that right because this would have been 92 or three or right So he, he references the first world trade center bombing, but anything to say before I kick this one out or this is our final gen?

Well, I picked this for a couple of reasons. One is that I thought, God, I can't get through. And there's so many songs I left out. I mean, I wanted to,

I didn't really get a true quintessential R&B song in there. And it's funny cause when I think about nineties R&B, I think R. Kelly. Or Boyz II Men, right? Well, yeah, I guess so. I guess so. But I was like, I just love R. Kelly. And I'm like, I can't play R. Kelly now.

Damn. Right, Ignition remix. But with this song, we talked about sampling earlier. This is another great example of a great sample. They sample M to Me or M to May. The song called, um, juicy fruit they had in the eighties,

I think it was the eighties or, or, uh, seventies. Yeah. Seventies. Sorry. I wouldn't mean seventies.

Anyway, they sampled it and it's just really well done. I just wanted it to kind of represent hip hop, but also classic jam, but also represent old school. And that was a part of energy, you know, once,

twice an hour. And then we did an entire Sunday afternoon of old school jams and it was old funk and soul um from the you know the 70s and 80s and it was just great and a big part of energy well i'm gonna kick it out now what a classic jam love it so much and uh just want to say scott uh you did a great great job this is like the the definitive uh 108 recap, overview. And I mean, at the end, as I fade it down, you can tell us how it all ends, if you will. Spoiler alert.

But also just can't wait for that podcast. How's the beer? Which one did you crack open? Oh, you know what? By the way, the Vienna Lager. I highly recommend. This is good. Glad you're enjoying it. Here we go way, the Vienna Lager, I highly recommend. This is good. Glad you're enjoying it.

Here we go. Great Lakes Vienna Lager, everybody. Yeah. This album is dedicated to all the teachers that told me I never amount to nothing. To all the people that lived above the buildings that I was hustling from that called the police on me when I was just trying to make some money to feed my daughter. Yeah, yeah. To all my peoples in the struggle, you know what I'm saying? It's all good, baby, baby

It was all a dream I used to read Word Up magazine Salt and pepper and heavy D up in the limousine Hanging pictures on my wall Every Saturday, rap attack, Mr. Magic, Molly Mall I let my tape rock till my tape pop Smoking weed and bamboo, sipping on private stock Way back when I had the red and black lumberjack

With the hat to match Remember rapping Duke, da-ha, da-ha You never thought that hip-hop would take it this far Now I'm in the limelight Cause I rhyme tight, time to get paid Blow up like the world trade Born sinner, the opposite of a winner Remember when I used to eat sardines for dinner

Peace to Ron G, Brucie B, Kid Capri Fuck Master Flex, love bug star Ski I'm blowing up like you thought I would Call a crib, same number, same hood It's all good And if you don't know, now you know You know very well who you are And I'm holding down before the bar Love it, man. Great. Timeless. Timeless.

So how does the story end? You alluded to the two kind of iterations of energy. I think, you know, to properly explain the, you know, 97 to 2002, the last day of energy, August 9th, 2002, when it flipped to country. And I actually, funny enough, that very last day, they let me, Suzanne Carpenter, bless you, thank you, for letting me play whatever the last six hours has been. I think from noon until about 6 o'clock. And what we did, we played a lot of classic energy tracks especially from the early mid 90s and uh had lots

of fun because the energy um from 97 onwards just started to morph into more of a top 40 and it was a very weird time because you know when it switched over a lot of people were used to just you know hearing the dance stuff and hearing matchbox 20 and other artists like that just didn't sound right. And then, of course, they changed the rules, 97, the non-hit rules. And then, you know, Kiss launched in Toronto, Kiss 92, and Z was making gains and, yeah, things were just not going well. So the station changed the country. So we finished with a great six hours.

Last song was Last Dance, like the 12, 13, 14-minute version of Last Dance down to Summer, and then it was into country. And I guess later on it became vinyl, classic hits, and eventually back to Top 40 Energy. And today, well, there's that flip.

So I guess technically it's not 108 anymore. Like 108 is... Yeah, well, there's the flip of the stage. That's a whole other story at one point. And there's a story or two behind that I'll save for another podcast. Oh, save it for your next episode. I love it that you're coming back. In fact, due to the weather,

like I'm thinking you need to come back before it gets cold, like too cold. Like I'm thinking... Nice autumn day here. Yeah, like a late september early october you can bring a jacket you know as long as it's warm enough for the gear now it's shady here it's quite nice this is the lake effect my friend uh if you're even as even as far north as let's say high park or something you know in high park right now they might be feeling like 40 degrees, but in my backyard, it's like 24 or something. It's quite the swing.

But that works against you in April and May when everyone's wearing shorts. In High Park, we're in parkas down here, so it does work against you here. Has anybody interviewed you yet? Not the way I interview people because, come on. I would like to do that.

Who wants to interview me? You want to interview me? I do. Okay, well, book it. I feel way more comfortable doing the interviewing. I do. This is tough. But you're a great, you've been great, like, because you're the, what I call the subject

matter expert. And there's only, you know, I'm out there collecting stories, right? And you're one of my favorite storytellers. And you have the bonafide. So why do you think I have you on so much? Because you're handsome? No, come on. There's a whole thing we're doing here.

Scott, can't wait already. I'm going to count down the days until your next appearance. But that was a very thorough and wonderful synopsis of the Energy 108 years. Thanks for doing that. Pleasure always. Thank you. And you even gave me, it was all happy.

It was good. And then you brought, you know, the 9-11 clip just gave me the chills, man. Yeah. Something else. Real talk right there.

And that brings us to the end of our 703rd show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Scott is at Scott Turner, but Scott has one T Scott Turner our friends at Great Lakes Brewery

are at Great Lakes Beer Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta Sticker U is at Sticker U The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies Pumpkins After Dark are at Pumpkins Dark and Garbage Day are at GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike

my next guest is Wednesday and it's Paul Romanuk. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.