Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Sean McCann: Toronto Mike'd #941

Episode Date: October 28, 2021

Mike chats with Sean McCann about founding Great Big Sea, why he left the band, the chances of a reunion, and his new Shantyman's Life.

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in Mississauga and Oakville. Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group, who's ripping up the GTA real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com. And joining me this week is Great Big C founder, Sean McCann.

Sean, nice to meet you, man. Nice to meet you too, Mike. How's Toronto? Toronto is, uh, is, is doing great. Whereabouts do we find you today? I'm in a little village called Manitouk just outside of Ottawa, Ontario. I'm actually wearing the shirt. Oh, nice.

Life is better. Life is better here than you. Hey, congratulations on receiving the Order of Canada. Thanks, man. Geez, I have it on my guitar, on my guitar strap ready to go to work.

The little pin, but I've yet to receive my actual physical around the thing. I guess it's a pin, but I've yet to receive my actual physical around the thing. I guess it's a metal, but I, we, that got deferred because of that, that COVID thing. That pesky pandemic, right? Yeah. Like 18 months ago then. So I'm still waiting for the actual ribbon. Is that, is that guitar old Brown?

Yeah. Old Brown's right here. Okay. that guitar old brown yeah old brown's right here okay yeah and old brown that's uh that's your guitar that you wrote your first song with right yeah he's actually wearing the metal but this is old brown wow he's kind of got lots of scars and dings and just like his owner but yeah he's been with me he's my first guitar he's been with me. He's my first guitar. He's been with me since the very beginning. And he's going to be with me for this interview. And what is the beginning exactly? We're talking, I guess, late 80s.

What is the beginning with you in the world of music? Yeah, it was like late 80s, 87, 88, 89, I think, was when we got the first band on the go. And in St. John's, I was in Memorial University of Newfoundland. I have a degree in philosophy, believe it or not. So there's that. And we started, I started St. John's is, you know, the most bars per capita in North America. So it's like Canada's New Orleans or Vegas. So there's all these bars.

I mean, the city of St. John's, you know, it's a city-state. And it's an international city-state because all these sailors came from all over the world with their shanty songs. Right. And they were always in the bars, and there's so many bars. So I was working in a bar as a busboy slash bartender, and I saw quickly that the bands, and there's great bands in St. John's, man, like it's free or cheap cover to see excellent bands all the time. And there was bands every night in every bar pretty much,

and I quickly learned that the bands got paid more than me, didn't work as hard as me, and met more girls than me. So my motivation was clear. I wanted to be in a band. In one band, I was kind of reading about your early history, but the Newfoundland Republican Army. Yes.

Newfoundland has a very checkered past when it comes to politics. And I grew up with that kind of chip on my shoulder. No one really wanted us. We ended up in Canada and I'm grateful for that. For a long time we were skating and we've been victimized by a lot of we have a history of electing the most criminal of possible potential politicians. There's always been a separatist bent, not unlike the,

uh, uh, the Bloc Quebecois. Like we, we honestly thought, and certainly in the, at that time in the eighties, seventies and eighties,

there was a strong anti-confederation sentiment when I grew up. So we formed the Newfoundland Republican Army, not to be confused with the National Rifle Association. Right, the NRA. We were singing songs of leaving Canada and becoming our own nation again. So help me out here. Yeah, sorry, go ahead, Sean. I'm glad we didn't. I'm glad we stayed. Now you mentioned sea shanties, and we're going to talk about your new sea shanty, and we're going to get into that but first maybe help me out uh so you're in the nra if you will newfoundland republican army how does nra morph into great big c the newfoundland republican army played one show well we won it we won a talent contest there was a it was a nine-piece band made up of a real mixture of people,

and there was two couples in the band. And anyway, we won a music contest at the university, which was a surprise to all of us because we only knew three songs. And then we did one show at the local grad house bar, and then we broke up because two of the couples started feuding on stage it was quite the show so we myself and bob were the only two members who soldiered on that's uh he's the fiddle player accordion player from great big seat and uh we formed a band called rankin street which i actually have the cassette amazing Amazing. I love it.

Rankin Street, live. I love it. It's live at the Blarney Stone Pub. Oh no, look at my white hair, Sean. I remember cassettes very, very well. Yeah, yeah, man. The cassettes are cool. I still have 30 left. I found these the other day in my basement. We made a cassette.

We actually made that cassette because we were at the end of the band's career. The band actually paid off my student loan. We played six nights a week, and we got pretty good. We just didn't really have a vision or a plan, and some people had jobs, and so we just, but I wanted to continue, and Daryl wanted to continue, and Bob wanted to continue, and then the next step, Bob actually left to work at Barry, and then me and Daryl wanted to continue and Bob wanted to continue. And then the next step, Bob actually left to work in Barry. And then me and Daryl started to do stuff. And then we found Alan, Alan Doyle. And then we became Great Big Sea because he was the great front man we needed.

We were lacking. Now, it's only yesterday that I learned that When I'm Up I Can't Get Down is a cover song I swear I thought it was a great Big C original until yesterday I am the fountain of affection I'm the instrument of joy To keep the good times rolling I'm the boy, I'm the boy You know the world could be our oyster

If you just put your trust in me I'm the boy you know the world could be our oyster. If you just put your trust in me, cause we'll keep the good times rolling. Wait and see, wait and see. Oh, wait and see. There's exultation, there's sweet disintegration A few discolorations, then it comes along Up is what he chooses, the kisses and the bruises There ain't nothing he refuses, then it comes along It comes along, it comes along

And I am lifted, I am lifted, I am lifted When I'm up I can't get down, can't get down, can't get level When I'm up I can't get down, get my feet back on the ground When I'm up I can't get down Can't get down, can't get level When I'm up I can't get down Get my feet back on the ground He just needs something to find him Something to wind him up It won't take long to find him When it comes on strong High skies are brimming Street lights are spinning Yeah, no, we, that wasn't our song.

It was a great song. The Oyster Band out of England are one of my favorite bands, and everyone should check them out. They are the songwriting machine. They're an awesome band live. They are awesome songwriters. And they're in a Celtic vein, traditional vein. They're kind of folk rock, but they predate us. And I think it was Bob found that song or it could have been Kim Cook from Warner. But when I found about, like, I didn't know about that band a lot, but when I dug into their catalog,

they are, they deserve all the credit and they're just a great band. So Oyster Band, check them out. And they're a British folk group, as I learned yesterday. So that's sort of the big break, right?

For Great Big Sea, because that's a big nationwide hit. When I'm up, I can't get down. It's a great jam. Yeah, it's a great song. We also stole

a song from slade uh run run away that was actually the first one i think you're right you're actually right uh i don't know how that you know chart wise i don't know but run run away is the first great big c song i ever heard yeah we we never really charted on radio like we weren't a radio band we did well on video i managed to make friends with denise donlon over at much music and uh we make good videos and they got play so we had video play really not a lot radio could do with us but um we did have a lot we did have a great live show and we built the following the old-fashioned way by touring and playing and building crowds and you know that's that's where

the band's success really lie uh sean i'm going to briefly address the fotms who are uh used to a a longer deep dive with the initial visit and then the return visit is a little different but i'm just going to address the fotms to say that we are going to move a little quicker than normal because uh sean you're a very busy guy and we don't have all the time in the world here. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to focus on questions that came in. And then, of course, before you depart, we're going to talk about the sea shanties, which are fantastic. But I'm going to read a question for you. It came in from Kevin Martindale. He says, gotta say, one of the favorite concerts was when I saw Great Big Sea perform with Spirit of the West at the then, it was called the Molson Amphitheater in the summer of 2009.

Can you ask him what it was like performing with those guys and the impact they had on Great Big C starting out? Put right down by myself The not being what she thought she found Pulled hard in two directions By a desire to learn my old affections I tried to share my world with you You could not seem to tolerate The people I had grown to love They sank under the scrutiny

Became the ones you'd hate Everything, everything With you and me had to be so political Everything, everything With you and me had to be so political I was feeling underwhelmed about Hanging around with you and feeling Overcused. Yes, every word, every look, every little sign, every little phrase

put me deeper in your doghouse. You let me out to run across your world. I ran into a wall. You told me I built it. Then you'd reel me in, read me out, pick me up, push me out again. And then repeat it. Why did everything, everything with you and me Have to be so political?

Everything, everything with you and me Have to be so political Everything, everything with you and me Was too busy tripping on my tongue To try and stand my ground And I can still see myself crying in your lap Asking you, are you happy with the man you have found? Yeah, no, they were a huge influence. I remember seeing them in a folk festival in St. John's.

They were a three-piece. And I was pretty friends with John and Jeff in particular. John, who I miss dearly. What a beautiful soul. And anyway, we were kind of very Celtic and very folky and very Newfoundland-y, but then we saw these guys from the other side of the country, which we'd never been to. They showed up in St. John's, and they really had a punk rock approach to folk music.

I called it aggressive folk. And they really opened my eyes as to what the potential could be. And we kind of stole that like we stole songs from the Oyster Band and Slade. I stole their idea. That approach, that idea really has strong influence and I really stole some

ideas from them on how to approach a live show with real intensity and in all fairness with some integrity too. They had a punk ethic and they said stuff that mattered so it inspired me to write songs that tried to say something

and we ended up opening up for them on a tour once we got a record deal. They were on Warner Brothers records we ended up opening up for them and befriended them quickly. We had a lot in common. They loved Infantland as well. And there was us and the Philosopher Kings. And we were both

trying out for the position of the opening for the national tour. We were in Ontario. We're actually in Kingston the night we got fired from the tour because we were too much like them. And that was a fear comment. And in fairness to the boys, they sat down with us and face to face this, not through management or anything because they liked us a lot. They said, we really like you guys,

but you're too much like us. So we're going to go to philosopher Kings and you're drinking all our beer before we get off stage. So if you're a young band out there, don't, don't try and smoke the headliner and don't drink their beer. Oh, Sean, I got questions coming up about that for sure. But Brian Dunn, who's a great, great FOTM,

he says, looking forward to it, Sean and the guys were on those crazy bare naked ladies cruises you've heard of. So just so you know, Sean, this topic comes up a lot. People who are on these, I can't remember, what were they called? The bare naked ladies cruises.

Do you remember the name? I do not, but I used to drink a lot too. So I don't remember what it was. The bare naked ladies invited us on, I think we did two cruises. Okay, don't worry. I'll actually, while you tell us a little bit about the cruises, whatever you can remember, and again,

we'll get into why your memory might be foggy, but I will quickly Google the name of these cruises. No idea what the name was. They were nice guys, though. The Barenaked Ladies are nice. Spare the West guys were always nice to us, and they actually ended up opening up for us on one of their last national tours, which was a great coup for us to bring them back, and they drank all our beer.

They drank all your beer. Barenaked Ladies were always friendly to us, stand-up guys, super nice guys. And, yeah, I mean, they had this this thing this was kind of a fan festival it was a very strange event for me I didn't really feel that comfortable it's your kind of

I don't know I didn't like the cruise thing it's that simple I love those guys but I did not enjoy being on a cruise ship and I think that's been borne out to be not a bad I don't think I'll ever get on another one ever just so you know but I did not enjoy being on a cruise ship. And I think that's been borne out to be not a bad, I don't think I'll ever get on another one ever. Just,

just so you know, you were ahead of the curve on that one, by the way, these ships and dip is the name of these ships and dip. Yes, of course. It's not, everything's a gag. Yeah,

for sure. Uh, Chris Ward. It's not, I looked it up. This is a different Chris Ward. Cause you're thinking, Oh,

Christopher Ward, but this is actually a different Chris Ward. Looking forward to, I looked it up. This is a different Chris Ward because you're thinking, oh, Christopher Ward, but this is actually a different Chris Ward. Looking forward to this one, Mike. Loved the band long before I met my Newfoundland wife. I guess my question for Sean would be to know how much fun the gigs at the Delta Ballroom in St. John's were that Great Big Sea used to play most Christmases

while home with the family. I hated those gigs, to be honest. They were like high maintenance. They were, even for me, a drinker at the time, they were like the drunkest thing. They were great for the audience, I think. And we became a catalyst for this gathering of expat Newfoundlanders who'd come home for Christmas, because Newfoundlanders like salmon.

They always come back. This was a place for everyone to meet up at Christmas when they got back. So if you were looking for your buddies that you lost, like if you're in Kelowna and you want to meet up with your friend who's in Ontario, this is where you'd hook up. And it was funny for us because it was really not about the band or the music. It was literally a social event that we created.

We were there, but I bet no one remembers much about the shows, including us, certainly me. And what I remember is looking out at the audience and they were really, really hammered. But they, I remember my memories of like watching people that I kind of knew making bad decisions. That that guy is not that's not that guy's wife because she's married to that guy over there and there was all this social fallout it was a massive hangover after that event for sure i mean i i was like every year do we do it again and i'm like i don't know do we have to but we we ended up doing it. We ended up stopping after a while because it just became such a...

And it still continues. I think it's just another band started it. Right. It's still not about the band. Never was. That band was about Newfoundlanders getting back together, which is great.

So, Sean, I'll burn through these three questions here and then we need to talk post Great Big Sea, of course. Andrew Stokely says, first time seeing them was back at Rye High. Ryerson here. Oh, name to be changed, by the way.

I'm going to have a new name soon. But Ryerson University here. He says, the picnic back in 93. 93, which is early days for Great Big Sea, I would say. But back to Andrew. He says, a great live show always. And Sean's solo stuff has been excellent. Cool, yeah. You know what? I actually remember that event. Great live show always, and Sean's solo stuff has been excellent.

Cool, yeah. You know what? I actually remember that event. If I remember correctly, the headliner was Moist. Sounds about right. Moist. I could be wrong, but if it's the same gig, it's Toronto Island is where this happened. Okay, yeah. The headliner was Moist, and we met those guys, and they were nice guys.

Never saw them after. We weren't the same kind of bands at all. Right. I don't remember anyone else from that gig, but I remember it was a big deal. It was one of our first shows in Toronto, and it was a campus show, and, yeah, it was a big deal. But that's my recollections of that i remember not i remember having a hard time getting off the island i don't know if that's because of the mushrooms i took or i just couldn't find them you know the deal there is they charge you to get to the island

but getting back is free of charge with the the ferry there That's the deal on the Tron. More my bad then, because I literally, I think I slept there. That's a part of the city here. I think most Torontonians probably never step foot on the island, but it's like one of our great... It's awesome.

I know. It's a beautiful place and it's a great... It's my favorite part of Tron. So Scott Doherty just has a quick comment and then we're going to talk about you leaving the band, I think it was 2013. But Scott Doherty just has a quick comment and then we're going to talk about you leaving the band, I think it was

2013, but Scott Doherty says, the best concert I've ever attended was Great Big Sea. Just tell him thanks. You're welcome. Alright, Sean, again, we're going to cook with gas here, but why did you leave Great Big Sea? All the waters surround me Oh, you know Yeah, I win now

Sometimes I lose I've been battered But I never bruise It's not so bad And I say Hey, hey, hey It's just an ordinary day And it's all your state of mind

At the end of the day You you just got to say it's all right. This conversation with Sean McCann has been made possible by wonderful sponsors like Palma Pasta. Palma Pasta is where you get authentic Italian food in the GTA. Go to palmapasta.com. Sticker U. This is where you get high quality stickers, decals, badges, you name it, at stickeru.com. Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of this community since 1921.

Go to ridleyfuneralhome.com to learn more. ChefDrop, top chef and restaurant prepared meal kits shipped to your door if you live in Southern Ontario. Buy one, get one 50% off right now if you use the promo code F-O-T-M-B-O-G-O. Do it. It's a fantastic deal. Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group

has been ripping up the GTA real estate scene. You can learn more at realestatelove.ca. Reach out to Mike Majeski and let him know that Toronto Mike sent you. FOTM Al Grego is hosting a fantastic new podcast from the good people at Moneris. It's called Yes, We Are Open. Al travels the country interviewing small Canadian businesses and then tells the story of their origin, struggles, and future outlook. If you're a small business owner or entrepreneur like myself, you'll find the podcast both helpful and motivational.

entrepreneur like myself, you'll find the podcast both helpful and motivational. Yes, We Are Open is available wherever you get your podcasts, but you can subscribe right now at yesweareopenpodcast.com. Now, this is not an ordinary day because Sean McCann is making his Toronto Mike debut. Let's return to the real talk. Bands are volatile things, man. There's a million reasons. And I say we all had our reasons and I'm going to try I'll keep mine to myself, but one you know, aside from singing the same song every night for 20 years which is enough for a reason.

We were a party band and a party brand and for me after you know, I ended up, I'm alcoholic i and an addict and i that lifestyle was a great place for me to live you know and be and not deal with my issues for 20 years and uh but it almost killed me in the end and one of the main reasons was for my my health for the good.

You know, I didn't care enough about me, but I cared about my family. So the impetus, you know, when I saw that I was endangering, you know, self-destructing myself and affecting them, that's when I decided to make massive changes, which the biggest one was Great Big Sea. And I did try to make it work. I was sober on the last tour we did, and that's where I learned it wasn't a tenable situation.

So I decided to stop touring. This is a good spot for me to remind listeners that, yeah, you said there's many reasons, but there's one good reason. I never saw it coming. It happened so fast. Hit me like a headstone over broken glass water

is rising it's hard to breathe just one good reason is all I need I look out the window and touch the pain. Every raindrop calls out your name. See the clouds rolling across the sky. I feel like I'm broken But I don't know why

You Were so hard to hold on to With every tear I cry I start to realize I'm never getting over you And I remember every minute I remember the day When you had to admit it

And our world blew away That sinking feeling Down on my knees A heart revealing A home in need You Worship our donor You were so hard to hold on to Every tear I cry

I start to realize I'll never get over you Stop looking over your shoulder for someone you won't find I guess we gotta get over ourselves sometimes So tell me a story Throw me a line I'm tired of keeping

Track of your lies I feel like I'm falling Into black Give me one good reason And I'll come back You Were so hard to hold on to With every tear I cry

start to realize I'll never get over you and that happens to be the name of your memoir that you released last year and I've read it because I actually booked you on another show I produce Humble and Fred and I gotta say what's that good show Humble and Fred yeah absolutely and you were great on it and I'm sorry it took so long for us to finally connect but

one good reason I just want to urge people if they want to read more about your your battle with addiction and how it affected your life in uh Big Sea. You were very open and honest in this memoir, One Good Reason. Yeah, I went down the path of the book. I wanted to write it down, and I did. It took a while for me to do it in the long form, and at the end of my year of doing that, my wife, I knew there was something missing. And my wife, Andrea, unbeknownst to me, had been keeping a journal her whole life and had in real time, you know, episodic treatments of what had happened between us and, you know, stuff that I'd forgotten because I was, you know, intoxicated or stoned. And that stuff was extremely powerful.

So that's what tipped me over the edge and made me believe in the book because it really spoke to impact on not just addicts but the people they affect in their lives. And we don't exist in vacuums. And that's where the real strength of the book is. It's the fact that we told this story together. And I think it's really resonated with a lot of people, especially during COVID. We never did get to do our national book tour or anything like that.

This literally came out the week before COVID started, which we thought would last two weeks. Right. But I know it helped a lot of people, and I think it was important for that reason. And, uh, you know, I'll be, I'll be 10 years sober. Uh, congratulations, man. Congratulations. So I wouldn't have made it without her. Right. And I think it's been the hard work of, of, of creating books, like one good reason that, that has really kept me sober. That is really the key to it. You know? Recovery is all about sharing and doing the work, and many hands make light work. So I'm grateful for it.

And we're grateful as well. And it's also about identifying triggers, right? And basically, and you've alluded to this a few times, but the lifestyle of a band like Great Big Sea is such that you are constantly surrounded by barrels full of alcohol. Like it is simply, you identify that being in that environment

was a risk for you. Absolutely. And the music industry is, you know, it's a very, very, it's a very liquid environment to work in. It's particularly prone. It's part of the culture. And it's part of Newfoundland culture in a big way, and not just Newfoundland.

I mean, there's Ireland, England. When drinking becomes part of a culture, it's really hard to avoid it, you know. And in Newfoundland's case, you know, we coincided with the collapse of the cod fishery in 92 when there was a pivoting. You know, people were desperate to find something else, so we decided to focus on tourism. And part of the branding of Newfoundland was the kitchen party, which we literally came up with that concept on, you know.

We did it on a much music clip trip. I think Erica M., the VJ, which we literally came up with that concept. You know, we did it on a much music clip trip. I think Erica M., the VJ, had said, walked into our house and said, oh, it's a kitchen party, and we decided to brand that. So, you know, I just think it's really for a party band, a Newfoundland-branded band, it became such a real trap for someone who's prone to that, which would be me, someone who's avoiding secrets and avoiding dealing with problems. Well, you mentioned secrets, and here's a rather serious question from Kevin. In light of, you know, the recent disturbing details involving the Chicago Blackhawks organization,

what are your thoughts on the incredible bravery shown by Kyle Beach? My heart goes out to him. I have a good friend, Sheldon Kennedy, who can certainly relate specifically to that kind of abuse. I'm a survivor of sexual abuse by priests when I was a teenager. And what I'm, you know, I'm glad it finally came to light. But you can see how hard people work to suppress secrets, how people will do just about anything to avoid dealing with them

and how much pressure survivors are under constantly. So I appreciate that Kyle's battle, and I hope he benefits from this. I know he will. But, you know, it hurts. It hurts my heart every time I see something like that come to light, and it's far too often. And in light of the last three to four years with regards to reconciliation, we see people beginning to speak truth to power.

And I'm always encouraging to that, and I'm on that side. I know how hard it is. And if I could say anything to anyone out there, like always listen, always support because, you know, there's always someone you know, whether you realize it or not, it's that prevalent. Well said. Now, I think you can predict what this next series of questions, and again, I'll burn through three of them.

I'll stop at three because there were so many. Listen, I'm going to give you extra time. Oh. I think you're awesome. Yeah, let's talk. I don't know what effect this will have, but I'll stop it at three because there were so many. Listen, I'm going to give you extra time. I think you're awesome. Let's talk. I don't know what effect this will have, but I'll be late. Okay. Well, hey, it's your schedule.

I'm not going to argue with you on that one. All right. So then, good. I'm as good as you. Good, because I was going to take a 90-minute and compress it into 30 here, but maybe we'll meet in the middle there somewhere. But Craig M., and I think I'm going to predict the answer in my head and then I'm going to listen to you address this.

But Craig M says, any chance Great Big Sea might get back together at some point? And then before you answer that, Mr. Teach says, please, please, please, please, please, please ask about a reunion tour for Great Big Sea. I met Sean McCann many years ago and was thrilled to see them live many times. My dancing shoes are ready to make a comeback if he will grant me this one wish, and he's using the hashtag,

bring back Great Big Sea. Mr. McCann, the microphone is yours. Address Craig and Mr. Teach and the dozens of other similar sentimented questions I got. Well, that is not I mean, not to throw this away, but that's not my decision.

It was my decision to get off the bus because it was an unhealthy place to be. I will say that I have suggested ways that we could do that over time and the answers have not been positive.

The conditions that I have are that it be meaningful and sincere. I think the motivation really would be money, to be fair, and I understand that, but that's never been what it's all about for me. So there's a reason I'm not in that band. I mean, if you look at where I've gone, you know, I kind of don't fit there anymore. So if you look at it broadly, where I've gone in recovery, and like, I'm speaking a different language, so we don't really connect. What would be important for me would be a meaningful exchange, a sincere exchange, and the potential of doing something creative. But we haven't had any conversations at all on a personal level that were meaningful about anything that, you know,

that has happened in my life or any revelations that have come out. Zero. So there's no, there's unfortunately no personal contact. And I'll take one third of the blame for that. And I also think quite honestly, like Alan in particular is busy. He's busy. He has become the Great Big Sea brand in many ways. He's continued to do what he always did and more power to him.

But that is his priority. And as far as I can see, I don't think – I think the absence of Great Big Sea has served that pursuit well. So I don't see any reason for him to do that. That's my thoughts on it, but feel free to ask. But it's not up to me. I am one of three votes in that equation. But I will say that I have suggested the ways that it could happen in my mind.

Those were the conditions. A sincere conversation and a meaningful outcome. And none of that has met with a positive response. So that's the honest truth. I think you're being very sincere. And you almost addressed this, but because he took the time to write it, I'm going to force you to be more specific. But one of the Daves

I know, shout out to Bruce McAuliffe of Kids in the Hall. One of the Daves I know writes, please ask what his relationship is like now with the other members of Great Big Sea. Are they speaking to each other and does he think they will ever share the stage again, even for

a one-off, he says. And I'll add in my part, which is, the Barenaked Ladies with Steve and Paige are done, but they were able to perform at the Junos for a one-off. And they similarly, there's not, well, some members are talking to other members, but some key members aren't actually chatting. So now I'll let you address one of the Daves I know, and you kind of touched on it and

like specifically no contact of Alan Doyle? Is that what I'm hearing? Nothing meaningful no. No conversation no. We had one conversation in the last seven years and it wasn't about much. Business wise you've mentioned you're one of the three founders.

Could they have continued Great Big Sea without you? I thought they would, and I don't know why they haven't. But again, I don't think that's a priority for Alan. Bob is not in Alan's band, and Alan has another band, and I know he does the hits and he sells the kitchen party brand. He hasn't changed his, from what I can see, and I haven't been at a live show, but I've seen videos and, you know, he's, he literally recorded Patty Murphy again. You know, he's that, that is the path, you know, I get it. Like, keep it simple. It's working. There's piles of money. Keep going.

And that all makes sense on a monetary level and probably on an artistic level for him, but that's not the path I was on. So, yeah, I don't know what the motivation would be. I think he's doing fine. Well, okay, so here's my... I actually have seen the Alan Doyle band. When did I see them?

I guess it was... They're good. He's hired a bunch of guns. He's probably got a better looking Boron player. He's certainly got a prettier fiddler. This is Kendall Carson.

Is this Kendall Carson that we're talking about now? I think Kendall Carson's in the band. I don't know her name. She's a woman. Anyway, Kendall Carson. I saw her when she was very young. But here, with Blue Rodeo. And then basically, I only saw the Alan.

I didn't go see. I didn't go to see the Alan Doyle band. It's okay. You can be an Alan. That's fine. I went to see Blue Rodeo. And the Alan Doyle band opened for Blue Rodeo. And there is a lot of Great Big Sea on the playlist.

Absolutely. But when you perform live, you're going to play some great big C as well, right? I do, and the audience are great. When they've given me something, then I'll give them back. And I've made peace with my past, like I do. I wrote some of those hits with Alan, but I've kind of changed them.

I've kind of made them... I use them as amplifiers for a message usually. I use them in my musical keynote performances sometimes. But it really depends on the audience. And sometimes they just really deserve that dessert at the end. When they work hard, it's sure, you know. They've got to get me in that kind of frame of mind. I don't depend on them, and that's good too.

So, you know, but again, I don't bear any will towards it. For a while I thought it would be a trigger. And, I mean, this new record, Shanty Man, is definitely a return to form. I mean, one fan on Facebook said, this is the best Great Big Sea record I've never heard. Which I thought was, yes, that's good. That felt good to hear that, you know? Well, you really are the right man at the right time. I still exist in that. There's still a big part of me that is that person. Well, I was going to say, it seems to me as a guy born and raised in Toronto

here that there was a, suddenly there was this mass resurgence of sea shanties like this became in not too long ago. I think we're only going back a couple of years or whatever. Suddenly, it was really like popular to be like enjoying sea shanties. And you, Sean McCann, are sort of the right man and at the right time for, right time for celebrating a shanty man's life, if you will. Which, by the way, I'll... Actually, do you mind? I know time constraints and everything. I was going to add it in post.

But could I play some shanty man's life right now and then we could talk a bit more about this project? Sure, man. All right. I'm already in trouble. Why not pile on here? So let me play a bit of this. Someone though some say it's free from Morning till night in the forest wild and rare Transported as we are from our lady so fair

To the banks of some lonely stream We're the one bearing out with the terrifying howl. Disturb our nightly dreams. They disturb our nightly dreams. Yo, totally dig it, man. Okay, tell me everything you can about this new project. Was this developed during the pandemic? Yeah, this is what kept me from completely going crazy in the winter.

I have an active shanty file. I've never lost contact. I started a master's in folklore after my philosophy degree, which means I'm functionally unemployable. I'm an English major, okay? I figured it out. Sometimes you just got to get that piece of paper. Absolutely right.

And, you know, I loved all of it too. Loved doing it. And the Masters in Folklore, I was literally chasing songs. I'm a folk nerd, you know, and I know where to find them now because of my training there. And Newfoundland is a place where a lot of international academics go, literally, to collect folks' homes. So I have this active file. I've actually got 82 left on my bucket list,

so there might be several of these records if this does well, and so far so good. But I found myself, we're doing a lot of virtual stuff just to pay the bills during COVID. Right. You know, I was grateful for the work, but really it's a lot harder, you know, than it's harder than, it's not easier, it's harder. And it doesn't give a lot back. The screen is quite cold and it doesn't give that heat, the human interaction heat.

Right. So I was kind of struggling there, you know, and when the snow started to fly in December, and I started to come up in my man cave here, my little demo studio, and sing them. And they require a certain amount of physicality to sing, like they're, you know, full-on belters, you know, and that was my shanty man role in Great Big Sea. And I found myself up here belting them out. And what my wife and kids noticed was that when I walked out after these athletic singing sessions in the morning, I was in a better mood, noticeably better. And they said, you know, dude, keep doing that. So I started to, you know, assemble and, you know, practice a bit and then demo the songs.

Then I said, I'll just record a little kind of indie record here during the pandemic. And I started to record them, and they were sounding pretty cool in a kind of a gritty garage band kind of way. And then one day my son, who's 16, came in and said, and he's not a traditional music fan at all. He said, Dad, you're going to be cool again. You're going to be listening to this. And he showed me on his phone TikTok. Yeah, I experienced the same thing. We're all kids doing it, you know.

And it was the weirdest thing. Like, it seemed really strange to me. Like, it was very, musically it was very sanitized and auto-tuned and I didn't really like the art in it, but I really did like the way that they were using the technology to do what the songs were intended for. And that was to use music to get through something very difficult, to accomplish difficult tasks. And in this case, the most difficult thing, which faces us all globally, is COVID. So Shanti showed up at the right time. And whether the kids on TikTok realized it or not or cared, and it didn't matter, that's what I saw as a trained folklorist.

Look what's happening. And I thought it was cool for a second, and that's about how long it lasted. But I saw it as a reason to continue i always look for peripheral reasons right and i saw that as a clear sign and when i look back at the demos i was making i realized it was this is not just a little this record sounds like i've made 20 records and this record sounds like a real record and then i knew them to absolutely to serve the songs properly i needed to invest some time and money and bring it to its full potential which meant Huxley Workman and J.P. Cormier, Jeremy Fisher

who all contributed remotely and then last but not least Gordy Johnson who's playing guitar on that track to mix it all together and it became a very powerful record I you know I'm really proud of it. There's all killer, no filler. It's full on. It's a big shanty record. And the fact that we made it remotely, unbelievable to me. The first record I've ever made remotely. I just got lucky with the people I chose.

I chose them. Well done. They're all great people, but well done choosing to work with the Hawk, Hawk as I call him, Huxley, who's become a really good, good buddy man with sean mccann so that song just to be clear because there's a lot of shanty chatter here shanty man's life is the song we just played and you can buy that uh well actually you tell the people sean how can they get the single their shanty man's life and how can they pick up the album which is called shanty man you can listen to it on my website seanmccannsings.com and then you can support me by purchasing the CD or the digital download.

But it's only available there. I'm completely unfunded. I'm unmanageable, and I'm scandal-free. I'm an entirely independent artist, but I am dependent on your support. So SeanMcCannSings.com is where you can listen to, and if you like it, purchase to own Shanty Man in a limited edition CD form, autographed, of course, or a digital download.

So that's where it's available. For now, I'm resisting the streaming. I don't mind you listening to it on my site, but I really don't want to support Daniel Ek anymore. He's made $4.8 billion in the last five years, and I don't think that's fair when he can only afford to pay creators like me less than a thousandth of a cent, literally. .0003146, et cetera.

It's not fair. So I haven't parked it there. I've taken actually most of my stuff off Spotify and hopefully forged a path without it. I'm glad you brought that up because that's where this pandemic is horrible to many people for several different reasons, including the fact

many have lost loved ones to this terrible virus. But to musicians particularly, where all the money is and you're doing a live show now, right? You essentially like as you described there, they're throwing pennies at these independent artists here in this country for the stream. Not even. We're fighting for a full cent. That's how bad it is. You know, it's that bad. So it's ridiculous. It's a race to the

bottom. And I would say this, you know, there's two sides to a contract. In record contracts, the artist is responsible to supply the creator, the product, which is the music, and the record companies are charged with exploiting that, selling it for a massive amount of share of the royalty, but also charged with protecting the artist. And I don't, by any standard, you know, that's where the industry, quote unquote, has failed massively, not just in Canada but globally. They were completely unprepared and then took the money and made the deals.

But it's gone. It's already lost. And I think that the consequences are, you know, felt extremely when because we could have used that passive income right now. Artists, in the absence of live, which is all that's left and has been left for several years, you take that away and we are starving artists. We've heard that before, but we literally are. And I've managed to diversify. I actually do most of my work are mental health themed, addiction recovery themed, musical keynote performances, and I still am in demand for that.

That's how I earn a living primarily. But I would not want to be an artist today, especially one that's just starting, because there's literally no way to even attack it, you know. literally no, there's no way to even attack it, you know? I don't know. I just, I'm really, I struggle with it, but I ultimately, at the end of the day, I am an outlier in that, in that industry. But I, when I look back at it as a sober person and look at the path and trajectory of the past decade or so, it's unbelievable to me how, how badly the professionals in our industry have failed to support artists. Congratulations again on 10 years of sobriety and I'm glad you're out

there making these speeches and hopefully when COVID is behind us, there'll be more opportunities for you to speak and again, I mentioned it off the top, but that Order of Canada, that's a very special recognition you received there and I know that was for your advocacy work for those living with mental health and addiction issues.

So I just want to close again. Thank you for two reasons. One, thank you that you stole some extra minutes for me here, which I appreciate, Sean. So I owe you one. I just hope he's not as good as you. Well, that's impossible. So don't worry. That's not going to happen.

Secondly, thank you for one good reason and for opening up about this. You're an inspiration, damn it. And just thank you for sharing your story with everybody. Thank you, Mike. Love to come back. It was great to talk to you. And I'm sure we'll stay in contact and we'll do this again. I look forward to getting back to Toronto at some point.

It's been two years, so I'll call you next time I'm invited. With love. Find me something meaningful to do. I'm available. I will drive from Ottawa. I'm going to work on it. Thanks again, buddy. Right on, brother.

Take care. Have a great day. And that brings us to the end of our 941st show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Sean is at Sean McCann Sings. Remember, there's two N's in McCann. So Sean McCann Sings. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Chef Drop is at Get Chef Drop. Mineris is at Mineris. McKay CEO Forums are at McKay CEO Forums.

Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. And Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group, he's at Majeski Group Homes on Instagram. See you all next week. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the snow wants me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and green.

Well, you've been under my skin for more than eight years. It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears. We'll see you next time. Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow won't speed the day. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and gray. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RomePhone.ca to get started. And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes

And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn because Everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow Everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and gray.

Well, I've kissed you in France, and I've kissed you in France And I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down On Sacré-Cœur But I like it much better Going down on you Yeah, you know that's true

Because everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms us today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away

Because everything is rosy now. Everything is rosy and everything is rosy and gray. Thank you.