Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Searching For Shep: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1838

Episode Date: January 26, 2026

In this 1838th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike discusses the disappearance of Chris Sheppard and plays clips from Club 102, his recent conversation with Matt Schichter, director of the CFNY: The Spirit of Radio documentary, Chris Sheppard's final recorded public appearance on Humble and Fred and a rare remix from Hal Harbour featuring Shep and The Cult. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Welcome to Chris Jeppard's Club 102. Five hours of maximum music with limited interruption. An eclectic mix of high-impact dance music from Canada's number one club DJ. Welcome to Chris Geppard's Club 102. Welcome to episode 1,838 of Toronto Mike. An award-winning podcast proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great Lakesbeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA.

Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Visit palma Pasta.com for more. Fusion Corp's own Nick Aini's. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Building. success, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recycle MyElectronics.c.c.c.mitting to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921.

FOTM David Marsden hired Chris Shepard at CFNY back in the mid-80s. I myself would record Club 102 to Cassette, because that's where I'd find the cool music. Here's a taste from a 1987 broadcast of Chris Shepard's Club 102. When the clock strikes eight on a Saturday night, it's time to feel alright because Chris Shepard's Club 102 begins to satisfy you. From CFNY FM, you are tuned to the place to be, and it's you and me going down in radio history.

The often imitated but never even closely duplicated Club 102 Megamix is in fine form tonight. and we'll hear the latest mega mixes right up to 1 o'clock in the morning. We heard from Stephen Tin Tin Duffy and Kiss Me, shriek back with the theme for tonight. My spine is the baseline. And Casby concert performers, OMD, by request with Forever Live and Die. The man who makes his music marathon's modern,

Don Burns, left us with big audio dynamite and hand over fist. Join Don again tomorrow on Sunday Music magazine. This, of course, is man to man With a house mix Of male stripper in a go-go-bar I'll keep in the spirit of today's illegal Super Saturday by playing so much music It should be illegal

Simple Minds, Depeche Mode, New Order, brand new cure Ha! And the latest extended mix from you, too, are all headed our way before 1 o'clock tonight. It's modern music madness And it's yours on a Saturday night from CFNY. If you listen to Toronto Mic'd, you know I enjoy speaking with people who worked at CFNY. There's plenty of CFNY-centric episodes in the Toronto Mic'd archives,

including a thorough history of the station that, appropriately enough, is episode 102.1. Chris Shepard is a CFNY personality I've long wanted to speak with on Toronto Mic'd. But I can't even get the invitation to him to find out if he's not. he's into it. That's because I can't find Shep. But I'm not alone. Here's a recent chat I had with Matt Schichter, the director of the CFNY,

The Spirit of Radio documentary that's now streaming on the TVO Docs YouTube channel and their efforts to find Chris Shepard and have him participate in the documentary. You can't tell the story without Chris Shepard and he was the star of that station. I used to record his overnights. I would record to cassette,

and you heard stuff on those overnights that you weren't hearing anywhere else, and it was great. And Chris Shepard is a guy. I personally have been trying to get on Toronto mic for 10 years now. But didn't you get him? No, he was on Humble and Fred, wasn't he?

He showed up somewhere. Yeah, well, listen, I produced that show. I can tell you exactly what happened, which is, and I've done an episode, I think, called Searching for Shepard, I think. I'm almost 100% sure. That sounds right. And in that episode, I do air,

the last, to my knowledge, the last public appearance from Chris Shepard, which is a 2014 visit to the old Humble and Fred studio, which was on a street called 30th in Alderwood here in South Atobico. And Chris Shepard, it's kind of interesting in that, you know, he floats in and out of this accent that he invented for his persona, Chris Shepard. You know, it sounds like he's from England or something.

And then... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember from Laveink, absolutely. And he talks about being like, not a professor, but maybe getting like degrees and all these different. I mean, if you went in... Yes, I remember the interview, yeah. Like, I would bet you dollars to donuts

that he did not get any of these degrees. But that's another story. But that's the last public record of Chris Shepard in 2014. I have, I can't tell you how hard. And I actually respect a man who wants to disappear. Like, you have the right Matt to go disappear in Scotland. I can go disappear in wherever the mountains of Alberta or something. But Chris Shepard has the right to go off the grid and disappear.

But it is wild how he has disappeared, considering what a big figure he was. How hard did you try to get Chris Shepard on your documentary? So hard. Every possible avenue, there's rumors that he's in Costa Rica now. We debated flying down there for like a week and trying to find him. We're like, well, we can't afford to do that. But it would be fun. We got close.

Some writer whose name escapes me knows how to contact him, said she would reach out, never heard back, followed up. And I think she said, I'm still trying or he hasn't got back to me or something and it just never came.

And then it was almost like, do we turn this movie into a searching for Shepard kind of film? Is that, what we, is, do we just pivot entirely? And it's like, no, the movie,

it's about the spirit. It's about David. It's not that. And maybe there's a future film where we do one trying to find Shepard. Who knows? If this does well at all, maybe someone will want to pay for that. But, but I, like, I agree with you.

I think it's so cool that he's just gone. There's another doc that came out before yours, a play to record documentary. And they use archival footage because that's all they have. But it was another example where I was thinking, it's wild. We can't get Shep to talk about this. You know, he bought all his DJ stuff there and everything. It was a key part of the documentary. And your doc, the CFWI doc, I mean,

I can tell you, and I think I've shared this before, but people were basically having interviews with me about leads, because I do have some interesting leads, and all of them are pointing to Costa Rica. All my leads. And I have a gentleman who's reached out who says, Shep is living with his aunt in Costa Rica, and they're having trouble reaching her,

and this guy was trying to see if I had any way to reach Shepard so they could reach his aunt. And I've had several moments, like this with and then I go back and toggle back and forth between the man clearly wants to be off the grid and he wanted to disappear let the man disappear so I often think about this too searching for Shep like go to Costa Rica track him down and then I always remind myself leave the guy alone he clearly wants to be off the grid yeah or or has to be off the grid for other reasons that we might not know. That's some

stuff I've heard too. Oh, dude. I've got those too. But that's also just people want to make stories up, right, too, and make it sound always hiding from the mafia or whatever. I don't know. Like all this crazy shit that I've heard of last. Yeah, that's the one, yeah, exactly, right? Whether it's true or not. Yeah, but Lauren Honnickman wants me to say allegedly. So Lauren says

Yes, of course, allegedly. Everything is allegedly. Of course. Allegedly, a lot of those club shows were cash transactions and allegedly the mob is very interested in Chris Shepard and therefore allegedly Chris Shepard had to disappear. Allegedly, yes. I mean, I'm so far from that.

I have no idea what's true. But I like the idea of that story. That's fun. Well, I mean, it's terrible, but it's fun. Yeah. It's a cool ending to like this guy's career here. Like, it's like a Bob Dylan story. Like even you saying he's changed his voice a little bit to sound English.

Like, it's kind of the Bob Dylan story in a way, like of creating this persona. Yeah. A hundred percent. It's a persona. and yeah, so if anybody, if Shep's listening to me right now, Mike at Toronto,mic.com, reach out, brother. Let's talk. Since I recorded that episode with Matt Schichter, I've discovered Chris Shepard did perform at a club in Little Italy

sometime after that appearance on Humble and Fred, but I've been unable to find a recording of Chris Shepard more recent than his appearance on Humble and Fred in 2014, and that's 12 years ago. Humble and Fred's podcast, by the way, is a show I proudly produced, and they're still recording new episodes, so listen to Humble and Fred. Here's how Chris Shepard sounded that day in 2014.

But even beyond that, Fred Patterson, a part of that legendary radio station, CFNY. Oh, yeah, from 1979. A lot of great people came through those doors, Howard. And as I mentioned to our good friend Don Burns last week, when I came here to start working with you, I had no perspective on the radio station. 25 years later, you know, the radio station has sort of come alive for me. and like a lot of people it did in the 80s and one of the mainstays of that building

and you go way back with this guy is a gentleman that sort of pioneered a style of DJing and a style of entertainment it is a rare radio appearance and a real pleasure to welcome Chris Scherber Hey thank you. Chef!

So, so sweet. How'd you like that? Huh? Oh, humble, that's just beautiful. Nice to see you guys. It's been a while, man. Well, it's great to see you. And again, since we've started doing this show, your name comes up all the time and people suggest that Chris Shepard would be a great guest

and tracking you down was it the easiest thing but when we finally made contact you were so gracious and so accepting and here you are yeah you actually caught me in the West End City I love and that was what was perfect about it and it was I was like completely in REM sleep

and then I hear Freddie P on the phone it was so surreal I had this conversation and I was honestly in REM sleep during the whole process but it's great to be Yeah, I don't do radio very often. I don't do very much in Canada, really, you know. I do a few lectures at the odd university.

I have some fun and had a hot taxi cab ride over here. We were all trying to figure out, and I couldn't tell you the last time I saw you in person. We left Kennedy Road. We all moved downtown when the radio station transitioned to the edge in 19, I think the May of 1995. seems to make sense to me. For what day? For when we moved downtown? Oh, yes, it was. No, it was 96.

Okay. Yeah. When did you leave CFNY? When did you leave the edge? As soon as the corporate idiots got in there with, you know, they just ruined it. We had such a beautiful thing, a connection with the people. My object always through life is never underestimate the intelligence of the audience. And consultants come in and corporate guys come in.

So what year was? that? I have no concept of time. I live in the moment. I really do. I live in the present moment. It's the only place to be. Sounds strange, Steve. No, no, it doesn't. And you know what I, you know what I admire about that? And maybe, you know, you were in the position to do it when people of principle, I mean, you were a big star on that radio station, not that you weren't when you left, but it was a great platform for you to do what you did on principle to just walk away from it. That's pretty noble. Yeah, I, I've done. that like really my entire life. People, people view me of, like, you just played that commercial

song there from Love, Inc. So there's a group of people that view me as that portion of life, and then there's some people that view me as punk rock, and then there's some people that view me at the early stages of electronic music, and then the birth of rave culture. And then I got involved in neuroscience about, I think, close to 20 years now, 19 years. And then that really took my interest and I really started to focus on that and I still participate in music I still actively keep involved in music I get fresh vinyl all the time and it comes out of the UK Juno.co.uk is a plug for fantastic vinyl and then FedEx deliver it right to my door wherever I am and so I keep up on music and then I participate more behind the scenes these days well it's

interesting what you say about it's human nature for people to have an a snapshot of a time. And they, of course, you know, whether it's us or you, they remember what they were doing. And it has a nostalgic. It feels good to them to remember Chris Shepard doing live to airs. Or they remember Chris Shepard in Love, Inc. Or they remember Chris Shepard, whatever Chris Shepard they remember.

And that's just natural. Of course, they want to connect with you. Yeah. But when we had Don Burns in here last week, one of the things he said is, you know, hey, Chris is doing this. He's looking to do his doctorate. Yeah, I have already a few of those. actually. Do you really? Do you have a PhD in what? In, uh, in, uh, in, street knowledge.

Yeah. We have a PhD in nonsense. Which is handy. It comes in handy. Doctors of nonsense. The often imitated never duplicated one. As I said, I got into neuroscience, right? The universe we mold around us, you know, it's a kind of multi-dimensional spectacle of reality that's a sort of resonates around us, if you will. So I get into all kinds of craziness and, and some people, enjoy listening to it. I do a lot of lectures at McGill University. What would a typical Chris Shepard lecture be like? I know you've got some notes and I'm curious to see where life is taking you and what what thinks you're thinking, Dr. Zeus? Well, what happens is that people are really messed up right now. They're all suffering from some sort of stress disorder and you know,

it's coming out in gastrointestinal disorders or it's coming out in migraines or women with PMS or back pain or carpal tunnel and the list goes on and on and on. It's becoming more and more and more and more of an epidemic. And it really started in the late 1800s. If you go back in research like early Freud, I know avoid Freud in the 80s and all that, but Freud was onto a few cool things. And then there was Charcot, Brewer, a great Canadian doctor by the name of Allen Waters. And these guys all started to notice that there was this epidemic coming. And modern medicine, missed the boat on that. And what they did was because the advent of the laboratory in medicine in Western hospitals. So they went blood test urine sample, which can't detect any of this.

And it's all related to the brain, really, is, you know, we knock ourselves out of balance just by thought alone. You know, we turn on the stress response, which turns on the fight or flight mechanisms, which is the, you know, it's funny you said that. I've been doing some reading recently about cortisol and the connection between lack of sleep and obesity. And, and, you know, how not giving your body a chance to regenerate and rejuvenate gives your cortisol levels. They go to whack and so it signals something about the way we eat. You know, who do we talk to recently? They were saying it's the fighter flight stress hormone.

It triggers the need to put on weight to protect ourselves. And Chris, is that why at the beginning of there, you said you live in the moment, like the whole Eckert Toll now is what matters, nothing else does? Yeah. And to relieve stress, don't worry about. but what's ahead or what's what's gone on? I mean, I appreciate Toll some of his work. You know, I've read his books,

and I appreciate how he lives in the moment. And he suffered a lot, and that's how he came up with that concept originally. And I really love his pain body theory. If you're not familiar with the pain body theory, I'll let you look into it yourself. But your point is it backaches and gastral intestinal disorders. There's a neuro-something.

We become addicted to the rush of stress. So when we don't have that rush, that chemical rush, fight or flight that Howard's talking about. It's a meaglia, basal ganglia. It has a little small reservoir where it can hold this rage. And what happens is, is stress. Somebody cuts you off on the road, somebody, you know, whatever, whatever your problem is. And then the reservoir gets filled up. And then what the brain does, it should release it, but instead it sends it to the sight of a previous or a perceived injury. And that's the problem. It doesn't let it out. And then so what

happens is somebody has a lifts the cardboard box off the floor and goes oh i can't move anymore and so they go to a doctor they get an MRI and they say ah i want an l2 are touching we see a bulging disc here that's got to be the problem and that's not the problem at all so how do you if that's the result or the is that's where the problem went to how do you treat the problem how do you treat the the cause not the effect well that's the that's a million dollar question let's get out hey let's get after that okay Okay. I think it's okay. I thought you're going to a commercial.

I have no commercial commercials. You know, it's funny, I've been saying Amanda Barker's our summertime producer, she's a wonderful person, she's so thrilled that you're here. In fact, when you said off and imitated, she was... I yelped.

She yelped because it's such a touch point for her, the Chris Shepherd of the 80s. I was telling Amanda who teaches yoga. And I've been going to yoga. That there I was prior to a yoga practice, recently and I was trying to relax and some people usually are pretty

quiet right? Yeah, it should be, yeah. Should be and people are breathing and stretching and this gentleman started to do this. Yeah, I know those. And I was like, oh, shut up. I was like, no, yeah, you started making these noises going. And there I am trying to relax and I realized after about 30 seconds I'm getting ready to practice yoga

and I've got yoga fucking rage. Yeah. Only I Only I could find a way to actually get aggravated doing something that was supposed to lessen. Well, that's because it's an unconscious process because I'm a little skeptical about yoga, okay? I think it's a little clandestine. I think stretching is very healthy, breathing all those exercises are wonderful. But yoga means to yoke with God and it's based in the Hindu religion. So there's a lot of clandestine little sneaky things, little supernatural things that are attached to that.

Wow. And I get a little bit upset that it gets marketed as like, oh, yeah, just come and stretch. It's more than that. Well, you know, I've only been doing it for a few months. I'll tell you one thing. And I do the hot yoga. I was saying to Amanda, one day I looked down and I was sweating from my shin. So I thought, well, that can't be right.

It worked out. Let's just be clear here. What degrees do you have and you lecture in universities? Are you like a professor? Are you like... I don't have any professor gig. I actually got offered a professor gig and then the fellow just recently took off to Miami

so I kind of lost that one. No, I just do guest spots here and there and just enjoy the research and work with a group of people studying neuroscience, you know? So what is your job? What do you do for a living right now? I still party for a living, yeah.

Cool. I wish I could. Yeah, we're doing this for a living. Yeah, it's cool, it's great. I love radio. Well, let's talk a little. bit about the Chris Shepard that's not doing, excuse me, neuroscience, but it's partying for a living. You know, when we think about some of these big DJs, you know, daft punk and dead, dead mouth five,

Dead Mal five. Calvin Harris, Testo, Armand Ben Helden. And you knew some of these people back in the other days. You were the, you were sort of the originator of this, certainly in Toronto. Yeah. They all annoy me. I can't stand DJs. Really?

When people come up to me and tell me they're a DJ, I'm usually headed the other way instantly, you know. I mean, there's too many DJs. It's a fact. But I love the fact that electronic music and that culture has opened up because it's so positive. It's an energetic love experience. And I'm happy to see the younger generation are into that. But do you look at that and think, you know, is that something that you were in and then you got out of? Yeah, I was.

Absolutely. I was the first one to do it. October 23rd, 1988, I did the first rave, you know, in North America. I was over with New Order in Manchester. They owned the Hacienda, and it was the birthplace of it. And I saw what was happening. And a group of us came to New York City, and we said, oh, we've got to bring this to North America.

We're the North American guys. Okay, I live in Toronto. Okay, let's do this. And it started from there, and it's taken a long time to get where it is. What were you doing before CFN? Why? Were you involved somehow, and that's how you became part of the CFN? my family or?

I was a street kid, really. I started out as a street kid and then got involved in club culture at its infancy and started out the very first nightclubs, the very first superstar DJ, all that kind of stuff. And then while I was doing that,

we got to give credit to the great David Marsden. I know. You know, it was David Marsden who came and saw me at one of these gigs that was just, you know, loaded with thousands of people. And then he, He says to me that he's retiring from radio and he was such a legend at radio at that time.

You have to realize he was like the biggest guy and he wants me to take over his show. And I'm like, oh my God, it was as stumbling as I am this morning over my words. It was amazing to go in there. Somebody said, you know what you need to do? You need to smoke cash before you go on the air. Oh, that's what we do. Yeah. So you started it.

And that's when you began at CF and Y and you left shortly after, I guess, the format changed around not let's say around 90 89 9091 because I all I remember is I started in 1989 we worked together briefly again I really wasn't familiar with the culture of the radio station and then you were gone and the first kid that ever greeted me at the door because I was this was when you were on holidays before we actually started was Martin Street yeah and then Martin sort of took over took the mantle from you yeah yeah I knew Martin as a kid he was doing the road show and yeah yeah he he got in a difficult position at the first first start because when I left it was there was really nothing that was the only thing we didn't have a

million channels we didn't have the internet so everybody was listening to that show and then Martin unfortunately was the guy who got picked and thrown into that position to replace me which was quite difficult for him for many years and then uh then he developed his own personality and and made it his own thing and became quite successful and I it's weird I I I remember a thing if we go back in history if you want to talk about history and I know a lot of your listeners understand the history of that radio station that when I was music director that station after Iver hamilton uh they said Shep we need you to do the import show you know all about import records just go and do the import show and I just didn't even think a second about it I go and do it and then I got a call

from Iver and he goes Shep that's my show you know the import show I built it and I'm like yeah you're absolutely right like I just wasn't thinking so like I'm like yeah forget that right So the same thing I did with Martin, and I said to him, like, you know, as irrelevant as it is in this moment, it's, you know, that's the name of a show that I created as cheesy as it was, Club 102. Like, just change the name, make it your own, and then you won't get hassled by the people on the street. And he goes, well, I just do what they tell me to do. Well, I didn't talk to him for years. We were close friends, and we just fell out. And I think it was like two days before his passing, where he pops out and sees me in a parking lot and comes.

comes up to me. It was just so trippy. And then, yeah, we kind of made amends. Wow. Yeah. Well, that's tough because we've often said that we did the morning show and then Dean Blendell took over and he had a rough time at the beginning for that very recent. For quite some time, actually. Because, you know, people get, you know what people are like. They get used to the same old, the same old. And then when there's a change, they're not comfortable with it. We think 60 to 70,000 thoughts a day. And believe it or not, 90% of those 60 to 70,000 thoughts a day we think are the same thoughts we thought the day before. So it's completely ridiculous.

We get stuck in these patterns. And it's funny because, you know, you and I were compared sometimes unfavorably to Pete and Geats, Blundell compared unfavorably to us for a long time. And it's what I was saying about the people. We like to, we don't like change. And we like our people. We like people to stay where they are. And that's why sometimes when you haven't seen somebody in years, you almost are sometimes

surprised that they've evolved in moving. dawn and they're not that person you knew back in high school, college a couple weeks ago at the picnic. Absolutely, you know I never go to picnics. I'm going to one on Saturday. Are you really? I can see Freddie P is a picnic guy. No, he's not.

I mean, the P and Picnic. No, here's the thing. You think that on the surface because of his jocular nature, but an actual fact, you know, but the first one at the pictern to go, I'm getting the fuck out of here. No, but Chris, you know, he knows back in the day and I've explained this to you guys

before I used to be excited by picnics and things like that. Oh, yeah. With age, it's gone. A lot of people don't know. Snow Removal Machine by Freddie P. Legendary, I mean, you know. Freddy's legend.

But he's over the years decided to shut the door on social interaction. Yeah. Man Hey. We all evolve. Maybe you'd like to introduce this song. Oh, yeah. Is this snow removal? I love it.

Ian Osbury and the cult, Billy Duffy on guitar, and the vocals of Mr. Fred Patterson. Hit it. Is this freaking you out a little bit? Longest intro ever. You know, this might be a good point to interject this. The guy who wrote that song. I know exactly what you're going to say.

Darren Wazelik. Oh, really? Yeah. And I was talking, you know, Darren. I was talking him on the weekend and he said, you've got to ask Shep, two questions. Okay. Number one, does he have his license yet? No.

You're still not a driver. I don't drive. And do you still have plastic on your furniture? He wanted to know. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, they had these Chinese Ming chairs. No, no longer plastic on the furniture. Very good question.

Because he said, he was your... Here's this cool DJ, the coolest guy at CF and Yago. Go over to his house and there's plastic all over his furniture. They were these rare Chinese Ming chairs with this satin and it was, yeah, plastic on my furniture. You know, it's funny because Darren's told me the story of the anguish. for him when he recorded that song with you. Yeah. And it's funny that that song and whatever take,

whatever number of takes that were, that was, that that song is endured. It's funny. Wherever we've gone. Yeah. It's one of those things, again, people remember. They go, oh, that song.

There was even a text this week at 1010 about snow removal. No, I know. Yeah, that was like 1987. It's like 97 degrees Fahrenheit outside today. It's a hot song, great song to play. Do you, as Fred mentioned a couple minutes ago, you said, you know, how do you make, what do you do, you know, day to day and you still make your living? I still downplay, I downplay all that, you know. I just, I live my life as a mystery.

I've become a mystery. Some people look at me as a cloud, you know. Well, is there money being, is there money in being enigmatic? Yeah, I live a very successful life, you know. I still live in five-star hotels, sure. Okay, well, because, you know, back when I met you in the beginning of this whole thing, one of the things that impressed me, and I've always remembered this, is I had this image of you like a lot of people like, hey, chefs like this party guy.

And then one day we were talking. And you mentioned sort of casually, almost offhand. You said, oh, yeah, I've just flipped a house or bought a thing. And I had some investment property. I was like, wow. This guy's a lot smarter than I thought. You were one of the first people I'd ever met in my age group that bought property. Yeah.

Well, I mean, getting back to you categorizing people. At the time we're 35, by the time we're 35, we've memorized who we are. You know, 90% of who we are, believe it or not. You know, but yeah, we're so powerful to heal ourselves. It's the mind that has composed life. And mind has always existed. Mind brought forth matter, information, etc. And matter has never brought forth mind.

And people forget simple things like that. And then they classify you as it's just going back to what you said earlier. They see me as the knucklehead in the video or the guy on the TV show. On some of the, I see some of those clips on YouTube that somebody points out. And I'm like, ah, they're missing the whole context of what was going on there. And at the time, there's one clip in particular, it drives me nuts. When we did, going back to CFN Y, and they put me on the broadcast live on their CH network, which was like a national television show.

So they broadcast at my radio show. And then one time they took over the television portion and put this government propaganda on, but they forgot to take me off the radio. And because we had so many listeners, they said, jam their phone lines. You know, and we just made a mess of their television show. And when I was a child growing up,

I lived with my grandparents and they were always like, you remember that show Tiny Talent Time? Yeah. Right? They were like, why aren't you all, like one of these kids? Like, you know, you're such a mess. You're dying your hair. You're being such a freak.

Why aren't you playing accordion like Jimmy, you know? And then, ironically, it was the tiny talent team production crew that produced this television show. So I go on there. And at the time, this is 1988. The music culture was acid. So I said on this national television show, which again, there was not a, the internet, there was not a million radio stations. Everybody was locked in on this. I said, everybody should take acid.

and I had an LSD hat on and I mean so the next week like it was filmed in Hamilton I believe and the chief of Hamilton Wentworth was there and everybody what do you mean everybody's

you know and it was like a lot of pressure so I was actually surrounded by police and this is the clip that is on this YouTube thing where I'm trying to explain what acid house is and these people wearing this clothes so they're kind of missing the context that's the thing with YouTube

No, was there any fallout at CFNY because of those comments? Because they were hooked into the corporate thing at that time, I think, was Selkirk, wasn't it? Yeah. Oh, I did some really crazy things on CFNY. I exercised the ghost of Karen Carpenter one time. And we blew the transmitter, and the engineer, I believe, John said he saw the lightning bolt come out of the sky at the time. And there was like some American rock star was the guest at the moment. And they laughed like really white-faced.

And I mean, I would like lay on the first. floor. I would call up at the time of that radio show, I would, I was really associated. Things got confused because it became so popular. But when I went on, I was just like everybody else on the street. And they're like, oh, great, one of us, you know, a guy like us. So, and then because I partied so much at the time, I, one day I called up the, it's, they're no longer really considered extremists. It's now that humble and this lovely young lady have joined the cult. But, but, but the Harry Krishna Temple used to be considered pretty out there, right? So I remember calling them up and telling them that I was really messed up.

And then I would call up and then they changed my name right in the middle of the air. They said, Chrissy Sheffey, and then I repeated my name, Chrissy Sheffey. Our guest this morning is Krishna leader, Chrissy Sheffey, hanging out with Humble and Fred. We're going to come back as we take a quick break here. It's Humble and Fred Radio. Series XM. All right then, let's continue our chat this morning on Series XM with Chris Shepard in a moment. Of course, we're thrilled, Theory of a Dead Man earlier.

What a great show. What a great spirit in the studio today. And, of course, all brought to you by, that's my 16-year-old calling me, all brought to you by Churchill Sellers. We already did that. New Canadian Music.C.A. Canadian music.com. Spanii, I can't talk you now. I'm on the air with Chris Shepherd and Fred.

Okay. New Canadian music. Dot Cia, new songs this week from Tom Cochran, Sloan, Mother, Mother. Yes, the latest chart activity. It's all there. What's going on in Canadian music? The video of the week, the new pornographers, War of the East Coast. Yes.

And the Vista Music Prize, you can take part in deciding who receives that prize, all at new Canadian music.com. 30 albums. I'm sorry, you're going to say something? No, I was going to, no, go ahead with the 30 albums. I mean, the achievements of this man of Chris Shepard. Well, talking about new Canadian music, he was new Canadian music for many, many years to a lot of different people around the world. Pumping out 30 albums worth of Canadian sessions under the auspices of the pirate radio.

Yeah, I was just saying to him on the break that I, you know, I didn't grow up with CFNY because I lived in New Brunswick. But pirate radio sessions were our anthem. I mean, that was what we, as soon as they came out, we got them. and we put them in our cars and go to the beach and blast them all summer long and memorize the transitions that he made. So it wasn't just the song that you knew. Like, I can still play it in my head.

They're like, dream time. Yeah, yeah. And he'd always come in and talk. And so you'd know his voice because he would come in in that first track. And you produced those 30 albums at a time when albums made some money. Yeah, yeah.

They sold quite well. I mean, really, I mean, they weren't massive because they were quite initially quite underground, so to speak, the records were they started out selling, but then quickly moved to like gold status. I think

by the time I'd went to BMG, the major record company, I think we got to double platinum, which was the highest. But at that point, to reach an audience that high, you have to start adding like cheeseburger songs. And my whole idea on that was, I was always

so underground and so obscure and working with like Einstein de Noibouten and and so many strange electronic groups Skinny Poppy that that I had this idea that I wanted to infiltrate commercialism

and then sort of subvert it from the inside if you will and try and change culture from within side so that's... Do you feel that happened for you? Did you feel it at the time? Yeah I really did because we started to reach a larger audience and we changed things

we changed radio which was which was really lockjaw, as, you know, as the young beautiful lady said, you know, we started to reach all these other provinces and people, and they became aware that, you know, whatever they were being forced fed was not real. Hold that thought. Chris Sharper's with us, and we've got a somebody on the phone. Hi, who's this? Hey, good morning. It's Jason. How are you guys doing? Jason, you have a question for Chris? Yeah, I know. Chris, I just want to thank you very, very much.

You made my teenage years, the best years of my life. Thank you for Fantastic music R.P. at nights at RPM, just downtown, the whole culture in Toronto. For people that are in there, sorry, I don't mean to date you, bro,

but 40s like myself, you were a staple in this city in this country. You changed everything. I got 5% left on my phone. This has been the best guest ever on Humble and Fred. Thank you, Jason. You take care about it.

Respect, my brother. Respect, respect. One love, one love. We're all together. We're all together. This young gentleman sent us a note saying, hey, could I come down and watch when Chris is here? And, you know, that's a great thing about our interaction with the audience now.

And we should tell you, we've been doing this a long time. And this little venture that we put together ourselves. And Fred would say the same thing, I think, that we've never had the connection with people the way we do now, even when we're at the height of the humble and Fred years. Yeah, because it's real. It's real, man. People crave authenticity.

Yeah. And, yeah. Go ahead. Sorry to interrupt you. No, you go ahead. No, I mean, that's the difficult thing with radio per se. I mean, I know. I ran an independent radio show, syndicated show for many years.

And it was like number one across like every spectrum, every book, every demographic. Everybody was listening to it. But you couldn't get the corporate advertisers into sponsor it. They're like, well, I don't know. He says some things that are a little out of control. And, you know, head office might complain. or, you know, it's just too difficult. It's, you know, it's easier to deal with Cliff Cohen.

And I love Cliff Cohen. So, you know, I mean, nothing wrong with Cliff. It's funny. That's a name from our past. The guy used to sell. Sales guy. What is your name? I'm sorry, Anthony.

I'm sorry, Anthony. Yeah, it's Anthony. Antony. Yeah. Antony. How old are you? I'm 26. 26-year-old guy.

And what is your connection to this gentleman here? I've been listening to Chris, and I have followed Chris's career since. I was like almost born. If it wasn't for Chris, really, I don't think Canada and the music industry in Canada would not be as developed as it is right now. There's no way. It's unquestionable, especially even the radio industry. A lot of radio stations would not be around right now if it wasn't for Chris. And I think we know exactly which ones that play a lot of that.

The whole EDM shift that's happened right now, I think that really started off with Chris. and to be such a pioneer and a visionary and how to fight through those battles kind of, you know what I mean to... Oh, they were battles. Yeah, and that's an honor. I just want to ask one quick question about your career, and that was when you started with BKS and Love, Inc, at what point did you really say, I think we got something here?

You know, you kind of just pictured it and you kind of just figured out, all right, this is it. We hit it. So how do you react to that? First of all, someone his age, who's almost his whole life, has been influenced by you. I get it everywhere I go, Howard. No, I mean, it brings a tear to my eye.

But I feel we're like brothers and sisters, I always used to say. I always feel that we're at one. We're the same, you know? Like, I love you as much as you love me. And that's what it's all about. And we're trying to do something. And we need to support each other. We need to work together as a culture.

And the same thing appeals to this radio show. People who love the Humble and Fred radio show need to support. support it because if not, it's going to disappear. And this is the thing, you know, I mean, the sponsorship continues to sponsor the blend. And people just continue to support the blend when really we should open our minds to new things, new theories. And I guess that's why I'm always constantly evolving. And I honestly thank you. It touches my heart that you see that. And I really do feel the same about you guys. Is that what you meant when you said you tried to infiltrate commercial radio? Yeah, absolutely.

From the outside, come in and change it from that standpoint. Anthony's question, though, back to the time of Love, Inc. And when did you feel, and maybe you don't even think this way, maybe that's the answer, when did you feel like, I think we're on to something here? Well, I feel I'm always on to something, still to this day, musically. I feel like I'm in touch, and I know what time it is. And then so the reason BKS particularly started, which was an early project,

was because I was doing syndicated radio, we needed cancon and there was no dance music can con so i said oh man i got to create a project to fill the can con because you know just to fit the style of music that i was playing and unfortunately it turned out that we created some kind of interesting music with bkas um and we see if and why what it was radio what it was and radio today what went wrong other than the obvious again you've mentioned the corporate the corporate yeah i saw it i i saw it I saw it in the record company where it first happened, okay? And it used to be all music people.

So music people would be, like, buzzed out, or they'd show up late. You know, they're just artistic people, and they're strange and unusual, and they're not keeping the same time frame. So what happened was I saw that management, like CEOs and presidents, changed. They started with sales first. They said, let's get rid of these flaky music sales guys. And let's bring it.

And that's probably the last thing that's good about CF and Y, or whatever they call it these days. I have no idea. I don't even listen to it. Is the Salesforce. That's the only thing. But I shouldn't say that because I don't listen to it. But I saw the advantageous part of this when they changed sales and they brought in like professional guys

and got rid of the music flakes. And then sales increased. Sales started to increase. And then next thing, it evolved into every aspect of the industry. Next thing I was like I was working at a major record company and they said here's your new guy you're gonna be working with who's gonna help you on licensing International product and stuff and he's like I used to work at mr. Christie I was part of the mr. Christie makes good right I know about music I like the hip-hop happening music you know and next thing you're working with like it's a nightmare Well you know it's funny you say that we we ran into a guy a couple years ago at our music radio convention who's the president of a huge radio company

And he was throwing around those terms, hey, have you guys been on the Facebook and the Twitter? Mm-hmm. And then you realize they're just repeating things they've heard other people say. Yeah. It's regurgitation. It's just regurgitation. And that's why the people need to support.

We need to stick together, you know, brothers and sisters. You were always, that's interesting you say that because you were always supportive of us. There was a time, and we've talked about this a little bit between 1989 and whatever, 91, 92. There wasn't a whole bunch of fans of the Humble and Fred show in that building. There just weren't. No, because that was, that part of the evolution just didn't sit well with a lot of people. And, you know, I had been there.

But when Howard came and I think the people just sort of, it was part of the evolution they didn't like, the poppy evolution. I think what happened. Yeah, it was associated with the, of the, no, even those people who were visionaries and, you know, artistic, they didn't want to evolve. Yeah. And they resisted change, like all people. Yeah. But two things. There was people that I think didn't want to see you get elevated.

elevated to whatever status they perceived you have right from sports yeah yeah and they certainly weren't big on me because I was like a regular radio guy they thought I had to become the music director to look after everything because it was getting right out of control but you what the point I'm trying to make is that of all the people there the the one guy so I remember this that you were always kind to us oh yeah and it was weird because there were some people that weren't there were some people like you know I remember listen I got some mad at one guy my footprints still on the fucking door of the in between those studios because

he was like, it was just so, it was a really weird. Yeah, it was a weird time for everyone. But I always remember you that in that you were kind of an oasis of a guy. I was like, hey, humbling friend, friend, huh? I love these guys. And I was so stoned too because I was working 24 hours a day at that time. I was, I had to save an aspect of the radio station at that point by becoming music director. And that took up way too much of my time because I was working in the studio.

I was doing nightclub shows. and then I was doing rave culture after, so I was going all night long. And then it was like, okay, start the music programming with you guys in the morning. So I was flying pretty high when I saw you guys. You know, but you're lovable guys. All I know is this lovable guy was like one of the people in the halls

that didn't look at me with disgust. No, no, absolutely not. I don't look at many people that way. I love you guys. But there was people with ego problems, and ego is always under threat of attack. You know, it's a real weakness. And you didn't have any of that.

And now these years later, neuroscience is an interest of years. I know during the break you were saying we wanted to talk a little bit about, you know, what you perceive as some of the issues that people have. And you were talking about how people's minds are responsible for a lot of the maladies that the physical manifestation of all this stress. And, you know, and Chris is modest, you know, because I asked him point blank. He has three PhDs. Three.

Three of them. And this has all been achieved since it's days at CF and Y. Now, the second two of neuroscience, the first one not, though, you were saying? I really don't like talking about that stuff because it comes off as ego thing. No, it doesn't. But the first one actually is quite hilarious because a guy from a university in Canada called me up, a prominent city. And he said, you know, Chris, we just think you're a genius and you have to come down here and it'll just be all part of this thing. And I went down there and I didn't understand a word any of these people were saying to me.

They were just talking like these 37 word syllables. And I was just like, I have no idea. So I brought a friend of mine who is an English major, basically, and he was going to explain to me what people were talking to me about. And I really wanted to get out of it. And I went down to the party. And it was in this converted church, the woman who was financing this venture where everybody got honorary doctorates. And I was, I mean, I was working with these heavy people from around the world, like, well-respected,

and in space science and all this stuff. And I'm like, what am I doing here, right? So I'm trying to get out of it. I'm trying to find the guy to get out of it. And I stumble in this party room. It's a converted church that this multi-millionaire eris who's sponsoring this thing is having this event in this party. And I'm trying to get out of this thing.

And there's champagne at the door and I get in there. And then I stumble in this room and there's like people like Margaret Atwood. And I have a few people I know there. And they're like, oh, hey, Shapp, what are you doing here? right? And then I'm like, well, I'm one of the lecturers' ego came in, right? And then I was, I tried to get out of the thing. And I remember this woman calling me from the university saying, okay, we know you're a music producer, we know you work on radio, and we just don't really know what you're doing. And as, like, when Fred called me to come on this show, I was asleep. And the television was on. And there was

terrorism at the time in the Middle East going on. And I said, I'm a, I really want to get out of this thing. I don't want. No, no, no, no. I'm not the person. If I don't get a name, I'm going to lose my job. You've got to help me out. I said, I'm a sound terrorist. And she goes, a brilliant, brilliant. So then the next time, another guy calls, right? And, and, and then he's like, chap, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we need a name for the symposium, right? You're working with this guy and Eisenman, the architect. And I mean, really heavy people, this, you know, gay theorist, the Columbia Dean on

English literature I mean I was in with all these crazy people and so this guy calls me again I'm sleeping and the television's on and it's an old 40s movie, 50s movies playing and then he's like chep and I'm like I got to get out of this so you got the wrong guy man I'm not the guy to speak to

I'm going to lose my job I'm going to lose my job we just need to know what you're going to call your seminar and come on and there's that song is on from that old movie there's no business like show business like no I go there's no business like no business like no business I know and the guy goes brilliant and the reason I started getting is when I mentioned I kind of screwed up the story a bit but when I brought my English major friend with me to explain to me to explain to me what everybody was talking to me about he said to me I turned to him and I'm like so what are they saying to me

and he goes they're making up words and at that point that that's when I said okay we're going to a game on these guys here so I went and I did this presentation got this honorary doctorate from this leaning university and and during the presentation I opened up with BB Bavilland this thing about the hoopah racheline American truing and he's going steady ticket easy take it eye la la la has by loco motion book a question deeper persuasion baby baby baby anyway some guys dictated this in a book I see this it's like these guys are serious right I had this I had Las Vegas show girls on stage I had these images and then I told them real

life stories that happened to me and man i've had a crazy life strange things have happened to me and all of these are true but the the part of it that was because they made up words on me was that i said i kept hearing this sound and it was a really strange sound really strange sound and i play it and then the next thing and i'm over the peaton mountains and the the the parasailing rope breaks and now i'm above the mountains and i've drowned almost before that and i've pulled the thing out and i'm hanging on and I'm doing the Lord's prayer and I'm thinking I'm going to die and I hear that sound again. Now all this is true except for that sound again. And then at the end of it, I go, I finally realize what that sound was and I go and then I play it in its full context. And I say it's the sound

of the Reverend Jim Jones committing suicide with 932 others in Jonestown, Guyana. And the whole audience stands up and goes, brilliant. Chris Shepard, everybody. Look at that. I don't know. I just wish Maybe you had to be there. Yeah, maybe you had to be there. I felt like I was. We've only got a couple more minutes left on today's program. Did you guys,

have you guys done any video with Chris or asked them a question? Is there any way you can hang around and do that? I don't know you guys have already. Let me just touch on one thing. I know we're not done yet. I just got a couple housekeeping things. Yeah. Did you mind, I know you guys have put your equipment away,

but this would be, you want to talk about an after show. Yeah. Do you mind hanging around? Guys? No, I know. What we'd love to do is we're getting, like, Facebook and Twitter's going crazy. It's lighting up. People love having you.

Respect everybody. I love all you guys. And when you agreed a week ago to come on the show, it's sort of strange how people get excited about this. You know, they go, oh, who do you have on? Oh, we have the bare naked ladies. Or we have this person. We've had Ann Murray. I say we're having Chris Shepard.

They go fucking lose their mind. Really? Yeah. Because you mean so much to a generation and actually not just one. obviously with he's crying he's crying that's nice it brings a tear to my eye as I said we're all in it together yeah I love all those people just the same and you know let's let's wrap things up here in our last five or six minutes and then what we have to do brodies will still hold uh Chris over for the four minute in between show that we do you know authenticity is something that

freddie and I talked a lot about at the beginning of this venture and it's 2011 October you know We were in a little studio down the hall. We had really nothing except this thought that if you talk to people on a radio or a radio setting, in a way that you sort of would talk at a party, at a dinner party or with friends, that they would actually like that. And he and I have seen the growth of our brand in a way we never saw before. And yet, as recently as last week, we still run into people that are in the real business that don't know this little secret that we've discovered and you've known all alone.

on. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, what are they doing in that side anyway? They're, they're completely programmed. I was never programmed. And that's why it's authenticity. That's why, you know, people dig it. Although people do get confused. Not everybody loves me because they see things, oh, he's that guy. If you only saw me from that commercial elements or you saw something from out of context and you don't know my history, you would be certainly confused. I would be confused. They go, oh, screw that guy, right? But, You know, I think if you know my history, then you see it's authentic and that, that's trying to change the system from within. Whereas, you know, not to diss a lot of the guys that are on there right now, but they're all pre-programmed.

It's like just, and, and you know, it's tough for us, you and I and Howard to some degree, because where we came from, that radio station and, you know, Howard never had the opportunity or the pleasure of working for David Marsden. He set that tone. I mean, when you start, when you start your career with a boss like that who's so creative and telling you to push the envelope and telling you to take chances, that becomes your measuring stick really for the rest of your career. When I went in, I had no radio. I was, when I was at Ryerson, I had a little bit of CKLN experience with, what's his name, Adam Vaughn's kid. He's just the politician in Toronto, right? He was the program director. Call him.

We didn't learn anything. So, so, so I go out. Now I'm on a big. commercial sort of radio station even though it's quite underground and really cult and then I'm like nervous, don't know what to say so I go into Marsden's office and he's sitting there

and he's like hey how's it going Chris and I'm like David like what do I do like I'm ready like what button do I press you know what's the EQ you know what's the parameters of compression like this stuff and he says to me don't take any of the drugs

they give you don't pick up any of the girls on the phone they're not who you think they are and don't eat the stuff they send you in the mail and i leave like what they know that's all he wants that's the best advice anyone can give you in radio totally the truth like looking back at it it's like the best advice ever but you know it's funny we uh you know we we had this conversation earlier in our show about some innocuous thing we said on a show yesterday evening just a little offhand comment

a discussion that Fred and I had and it just took off. It was, we had prepared so much that we thought people would enjoy or some of it we thought they would enjoy but the most enjoyable part of the show for both the audience and us was this little piece of authenticity

and it just goes to show you that those instincts that you got from you know, we got working together and you got from ours and you know, those are the ones, those are the things people connect with. It isn't very complicated. Yeah, and if you guys wouldn't screw up your sponsors so much when you mention them,

maybe a few more would join on. That's a bit of a difficult thing. But, you know, I mean, it is important. If there are people out there and they have small businesses, it's an important way to get through to them, you know, and be authentic and be supportive of them. And let's all work together and support each other in culture. Isn't that what life's all about? We all come from Adam and Eve.

We're all brothers and sisters. We're all connected. People forget that. The other day I was here in the city and I was just with some friends and I'm joking like, hi, how are you doing? Just saying hi to groups of various people

walking up Youngstreet. You know, you get the occasional, hey, how's it going? People are just so into them, you know, into their head and into, you know, living in the future and living in the past. They think it's weird that you would say hi to them. And yet, you know, it's funny,

I got back from Jamaica a couple months ago and every single person that walks by you on the street says, hey, what's up? You're like, great, how are you? Yeah, respect. Respect to Jamaica. It's a great culture.

Beautiful place to go. Well, we're going to start to wind down here a little bit. I don't even think it's relevant to say, you know, nowadays, if somebody was looking to see you in person or what you do, it more likely to be in a lecture hall than... No, I still work in music behind the scenes. I don't want to mention any of the groups I do, like Secret Squirrels. I work behind the scenes a lot. I've worked with you too.

I've worked with cold play. I work with a lot of major serious groups behind the scene. I do a lot of remixes. I still currently remix a lot of the older tracks and bring them up to a new funky flavor. Absolutely. Maybe that's what we could talk about in the after bit. What would you do for cold play and you two?

Chris Sheppard, you've done so much for us today. We appreciate it. Chris Shepard, everyone. I love. Thanks, everybody. So there you have it. The most recent recording of a Chris Shepherd appearance.

12 years ago. In 2022, I spoke with Hal Harbour, one-time director of Canadian content at CFNY. You should listen to that episode of the late-grade Hal Harbor. It's in the Toronto Mic'd Archives. Hal had no idea where Chris Shepard was, but he did send me this rare remix of Chris Shepard and the cult.

enjoy and if you know where chris shepherd is let me know he's okay chef baby something going on here chef baby something going on here well stimulation