Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Shawn McKenzie: Toronto Mike'd #566

Episode Date: January 3, 2020

Mike chats with Sportsnet's Shawn McKenzie about breaking into the biz having Bob McKenzie for a dad, his work at Sportsnet, Don Cherry, and where he sees himself in the future.

Welcome to episode 566 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, StickerU.com, The Keitner Group, and Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is Sportsnet's Sean McKenzie. Welcome, Sean. 566.

That's a lot of episodes. That's a lot of guests. That's a lot of content. Good for you. I'm glad I didn't peak until 566. If you're expecting me to take you to the peak level, then we should cut this off right now.

And that brings us to the end. Crack a Great Lakes here and just call it a day. I never get tired of the fact that I'll have somebody sitting here. We just met for the first time five minutes ago. Long-time Twitter followers, though. Twitter friends. We're Twitter friends, right? Not human friends.

But you're in my living room on a regular basis. Because it's different. I don't know if you ever watch a Periscope feed, but I'm going to assume it's different for you. You might see me on Twitter or whatever, but you're talking in my living room on a regular basis. It's funny how that works. And more so, you know,

just most of the people that I see on TV, I have the pleasure of knowing. But mostly on Twitter is you know so many people right like is that you meet them and you don't really need to know much about them because you're like oh i know you like this i know you watch this i know you're friends with this person like you know so much about people right and then you know sometimes you do learn interesting you're like oh like okay i never expected to know that i thought i knew everything about you from twitter but it it's cool that you meet so many people now that it's not that awkward first introduction

or it's not totally cold because you know so much about them. Yeah, and I'm always sensitive to the fact that a lot of times I'll have someone on and I'm very familiar with them because they've been on. Maybe you're a young man, but maybe, well, Bob McKenzie, for example,

your father, for example, he came over here and I'm like, oh, I've been seeing for example, your father, for example, like he came over here and I'm like, oh, I've been seeing this guy forever. Here he is now. But, you know, meanwhile, I was under the assumption and I'm sure it's correct that Bob had never, he's not following me on Twitter as closely as maybe you are. Like, I just feel like, you know, he's meeting me for the first time. He knows nothing about me, but I know a whole whack about you.

You'd be surprised that you know anyone who's on twitter i think as much as he is or me or you know people in our business or just people in general and they're on enough that you know more so than you probably think and that's the funny thing is like you meet people and you know you know where'd you what'd you do last summer or you know where do you and you already know like you've seen it on instagram and like you do you come up and be like oh how was how was greece and they're like how do you know that you know so much like do you fake it or do you just dive right into it say oh what did you do last summer see i damn well know what you did yeah i say we stopped faking that stuff yeah yeah yeah like how was

your how was your trip to this hotel on this block on this street and you how was that meal that you had at this restaurant when you yeah the rule is simple like if you publish it to a social media channel yes it is now public and domain you should not be surprised shocked or upset when someone comes to you and is like oh you ate at this restaurant and you had the pizza with this on it the best of the people you meet who are like pretending like they don't know anything like they're faking it but meanwhile you can tell from the conversation they know everything it's like why are you pretending oh yeah how was that like dude just come out and be like how was that trip exactly hey since i mentioned your dad uh we'll get this out of the way off the top here so we can make it all about sean but uh your dad was episode 227 did he ever get the uh the 227

tattoo he was gonna get do you know did bob m he got it, it's not somewhere that I've seen it. And even if he did get it, I don't want to see it. All right. So quick story. Very quick story. Your dad visited at a time when, okay, I think the rule of kids is like, I couldn't put them in daycare until they were 18 months, but my wife would go back to work after 12 months.

So there's like a six-month gap. You get a six-month bridge to fill. And this was during a six-month gap with my youngest, Morgan. And we had a nanny for six months. And she was a big-time hockey, Bruins fan, unfortunately, but she was a big hockey fan, massive hockey fan. You won't hold that against her. And she was out with the kids when Bob came over.

And I didn't tell her what was going on because, you know, she record down here and i record with your dad and then we're coming up the stairs and she's i guess she's in the kitchen or whatever yeah and i still remember the story she had no idea like what was going on down here but she just got back with the kids and then uh i think her brain blew up like bob mckenzie kind of came out of the basement. But you have to have big guests, right? It's not. True, but she was very young compared to me. So she didn't know any of my... Most of my guests were out of her demo.

She's just in the kitchen with the kid and all of a sudden Bob comes up. And she's a big hockey fan, so she knew Bob. And then I know Bob was nice. Your dad was nice to take a photo with her. And yeah, that's what i remember from bob mckenzie's visit with the nanny's reaction yeah it's always funny to see moments like that where you know especially like when you're up at the cottage or you're somewhere that is just a random place that isn't downtown toronto or you know whippy where he's from and

you know he walks in somewhere and you see like the double triple take and then the recognition hits and it's just kind of a funny, cause you know, they're looking at him, not me. So I have the ability to kind of watch them look at him and I'm just kind of laughing going, okay, that it's finally set in. But that's going to start happening. Like I'm sure it has already, but people are starting to double take looks at Sean, right? Like, uh, yeah. Like you must get recognized.

Yeah. Like in certain situations like more so the last more so this year than ever before because I feel like it's been like two years now I've done Leafs which is like when I used to do just you know we at Sportsnet we call it like news and broadcast where news would be like where I pop up on you know Sportsnet Central where I'm doing a morning hit or it's a tape thing like that stuff you never really get recognized too much because more so it's like a three minute report two and a half minutes of your voice 25 seconds of your face and it doesn't really ever click with but now it's when you're in interviews with players it's every night it's every well you said it you said leaves like if you

do a leafs game you're going to be recognized yeah and it yeah it doesn't matter what you do and if you're on almost you know you 50% or more of the Leafs games, but like bars, you get it because it's more so people my age. And when you go to a Leafs game, you get it. When you're around Scotiabank Arena, you get it. But, you know, walking down King Street, it's nothing, nobody.

All right, now I want to let people know you're not the first, what do you call it? I want to call it parent-offspring combo to come on Toronto Mike's. You're not the first. The first, I believe, I don't know which one was the first, but Kate Wheeler, who was a longtime news anchor at CTV Toronto, we called it CFTO back then, she came on and then later her daughter, who is an actress in some things my daughter likes. Her name's Alexandra

Beaton. So that was like the first time a parent-offspring combo appeared on Toronto Mic'd. But then also Steve Simmons who's been on a few times actually. His son Jeff Simmons came on. So I believe this is the third time

a parent-offspring combo has appeared on the show. I'm honored. Did you listen to your dad's episode of Toronto Mic'd? came on. So this is the, I believe this is the third time that an apparent offspring combo has appeared on the show. I'm honored. Did you listen to your dad's episode of Toronto Mike? I have not yet. That was, I was curious

because you'd think, I would have guessed you had. I would have lost a bet there. I'm not a huge, first and foremost, I'm not a massive podcast guy. I find, I'll listen to like,

you know, some here and there, but I just, I'll download a few episodes and then never listen to them and I'm I hear from him enough second point is you know it's like

people like yeah like it's you don't think you'd learn here's the thought like I think you think don't you think you might learn something you didn't know about your dad by having him like in an environment like this for 90 minutes? Like even if it's about some, maybe you've heard all the stories, but something about like that concert, he saw rush here and when before they were big and things like just those

kinds of details. Yeah. See, that's like, there was an article written about him recently in the athletic. And like I did, there was stories. I was like,

I didn't know you work there. Right. I didn't know. Right. You might pick up that stuff. Yeah. But it's like, I didn't know you worked there. I didn't know. Right, you might pick up that stuff. But it's like it's like an hour and a half of my life listening to my dad talk.

You know, I will eventually. Those are things like I will eventually listen to. Well, it's only like three years old. It's not like you had the time to get it. Now I will. See, now I have a reason to go back and listen to it. We can compare podcasts. No, but it's like I said, it's more so I'm not a massive podcast guy. I'm getting a little bit more into it, like 10 years after they became popular.

Like now I'm just dipping my toe in the water. No, better late than never. I say there's room for everybody. It's sort of like a bandwagon. Like when you got all those, like the Raptor fans who showed up last spring, they might not have watched a game in the 25-year history or whatever, but I was like the more the merrier. And it's like the band and the fans of a band that get mad

when their band blows up. Well, it's like, do you want your favorite band to starve? Do you want them to be nobody's forever just so you selfishly can be one of the only few people that likes them? Or do you want them to be in an Apple commercial and make millions? I don't know. I think of that a lot because you know for one band i always think of like that is rem okay so forever they were like college we called it college radio back then but

like indie darlings right and critically acclaimed indie darlings but you know you know the regular joe schmoe on the street didn't really know rem uh but but when they they did become massive right so they went mainstream and became massive and a lot of those fans were kind of pissed off. It is super cool to be in on the ground floor on something. But it's like, I don't know. People aren't like, I don't know. The average person is not going to be like overly impressed that you knew REM before everyone else did.

Like it's cool for you. It's cool for you and your group of friends that were into it. But like, I don't know. It's not something I'm going to go throw on my Twitter feed and be like, I knew this and but i would but people argue over that stuff like people get mad like i laughed the other day because like people argue about everything on twitter but nothing sets them off more than a list a list on twitter like blow like it's like oh my god you rank stuff and like thousands of people like i'm gonna tear it like

yeah like billboard put out the top uh uh, 10 rock songs of the year. And go, but this is not, uh, this is based on their algorithm that determines rankings. So it's not even like a, there's no like subjectivity. And it's like,

and it's like panic at the disco. It's, um, imagine dragons. It's all this, a lot of that. Yeah. It's like,

you know, it is very, very pop rock, but it's billboard, which is one source. It's data, right? Which you can't fight data. It's like, you know, it is very, very pop rock, but it's billboard, which is one source. It's data. Right.

Which you can't fight data. It's like their algorithm. But people are like losing it in the comments. And they're like, how is that song number one? I'm like, because people played it that many times. It's not something you can. And then like, that's not rock. Well, just go listen to what you think is. No, it probably isn't rock, but just go listen to what you like.

Is there a guitar in it? Yeah. It's rock. Because that's, we had, yes. I mean, there's so in in that i know this list because i look i'm always interested in the billboard hot 100 stuff and the billboard hot 100 which used to be littered with rock like you know you know be a bon jovi or a deaf leopard or guns and roses even oh i don't uh yeah maybe i'll get back to that one but for for sure, like the last decade, we've seen it absolutely completely dominated by hip hop and R&B, like unbelievably so.

So you're right. In the last decade, anything touching that top 100, I'm talking about the hot 100 from Billboard, that resembles rock, Imagine Dragons. What's the, what's the, all my friends. Oh. The, I'm thinking of now the, yeah. What's that band called?

That's terrible. They were, they had like two or three songs. They were like seven, eight, nine. But it's them and Imagine Dragons. Yeah. Oh yeah. And they're just crushing it. And like, again, like, just listen to what you like.

And who cares what Billboard calls it? Like, I just listen to your music and enjoy it. But people get so mad about something that's supposed to be enjoyable. Like, right. I don't know. Like it's outrage culture, right?

Like I feel like, uh, people, yeah, people are very eager to be outraged. And it's the echo chamber of Twitter, right? You create this little world that of all these people that you like,

that like what you say and they echo that sentiment back to you. So you think that when you get out in the real world, like F rock, F billboard and like people are gonna be like no i like that song because you're not living your own twitter bubble you're actually out with people who might disagree with you god forbid it's like when i confess i enjoyed uh the album the state by nickelback you got to be careful where you admit to that i will i will drive down the street with nickelback flags on my car today because i love and and like, yeah, I would,

if they were here, I'd throw, maybe not just cause I'm not, I'm not a big car flag guy, but that's a different story. So you're, are you a rock guy? Like,

do you listen to rock? What kind of genre, what genres do you listen to? I love everything. Like I love rap, love hip hop. I'm not sure if I'm into like the new trend of like mumble rap and all like the you know there's nine different trap i like like i like two chains and all that kind of stuff like but it's a little

bit like there's so many now i can't keep track of like the soundcloud rappers like the little yachties and the little babies and the little pumps like i i can't keep track of which little or which baby there is now. So I find like, just because I've gotten more confused at that, I find myself listening. I do listen to a lot more rock. Like I love Audioslave. Like I can just listen to Audioslave.

I listened to some Audioslave yesterday. Like a stone came on. Yeah, so good. Like stuff like that. I really like, like I'm not really, like I don't have anything that like, I can't tell you my 15 favorite audio slave songs and when they were made

and what album they're from. I just let it roll through. And I think that's how a lot of people probably, maybe not my age cause I'm getting a little older, but maybe, you know, that how old are we talking? Am I allowed to ask that question?

I'm 30. Okay. Born in 89. Well, you know, we're all aging. Yeah. But like,

I think that's how, you know, more people with Apple music and all that, you throw on playlists, you throw on something that somebody else has curated. And so I don't, I don't have to go buy an album and hold it anymore and go, well,

I know the cover art. I know I read through the booklets. That doesn't happen anymore. So you lose, I think you lose touch of like what album that's from. I want to say you're the same age as the Simpsons show. I watched ready for this. I watched that first episode as a teenager.

So that's, that's a, that's a wild. I heard, I heard an argument with the Sim first episode as a teenager. So that's a while ago. I heard an argument with The Simpsons the other day, and I'll ask you since you're obviously a fan. People say there's only like seven or eight good episodes, and for the last like 20 years, it hasn't been good. Is that true? Well, you know what?

Wrong guy to ask. Wrong guy to ask because I bought the first 10 seasons on DVD. I like them so much. And then I actually made a conscious decision not to buy season 11 because I felt the drop-off from when I loved it, which was like, you know,

seasons three, four, five, six, was so significant that I wasn't going to invest in season 11. So look,

now we're in season 30 or whatever. So I'm kind of, over and over again, the first 10 seasons. And then I've noticed a big drop-off. I can't even imagine what the drop-off would look like today. It's been a while. Yeah, it's probably, over again, the first 10 seasons. And then I've noticed a big drop off. I can't even imagine what it would,

the drop off would look like today. It's been a while. It's probably. And again, it goes to my point of like, just enjoy what you enjoy. But I get, it wouldn't be a fun world if everyone just didn't have opinions or talk,

but so many people get so heated over things that like at the end of the day, don't really impact your life. Just enjoy. Like if you like Nickelback, pump it, let it, like, let it go. Yeah. I'm with i'm with you man if you like if you like a creed eyes wide open when that song comes on pop 2k i it hits hard like you turn that song up and like yeah if people my age are telling me that when creed doesn't come on or like the old fray songs like that you're not cranking those up on pop 2k i heard it so i know my wife was doing some spotify playlist and i heard audio slave on it but then i heard a song and i'm like oh because

my first marriage uh she watched a lot of gray's anatomy and i was around gray's i mean i heard the song uh chasing cars yeah it's a that's like that's an amazing song when that comes on you listen to it i i definitely had flashbacks of like uh izzy and George, and I'm trying to remember all the McDreamy. Yeah, McSteamy. There's McDreamy, McSteamy. Yeah, yes. All the mix. That's a long time ago now.

It's a different era. But okay, Twitter though, you're a Sportsnet employee. Therefore, if I'm correct, because I've talked to many Sportsnet employees, you're allowed to tweet whatever you want within reason. Yeah, I'd imagine so. You can tweet political things as a Sportsnet reason. Yeah, I'd imagine so. You can tweet political things as a sports and employee.

Yeah, I would imagine so. I've never tested that theory just because like I said. Take out your phone. Let's do a Trump tweet. I like you. I don't trust you that much. But I guess where I'm going with this

is my understanding is the TSN guys are asked to refrain from political tweets. Really? See, that's... You didn't know this. No, I did not know this. Because, yeah, it's not something we necessarily,

you know, when we get to the rink on a daily basis, talk about. I've never been told what to refrain from something or to stay away from something. I'm sure if I did something that was teetering towards, you know, inappropriate or if it was wrong or if it was, you know, much too strongly opinionated,

I'm sure I would hear about it, but I don't know what that would be. I mean, you're too smart to tweet the kind of tweets that you'd hear about. Well, that's the thing is it's not something I've ever really thought about or worried about because it's just not something I do because like I mentioned a few times I just don't I don't see any value in myself going on Twitter and getting angry or getting

emotional or alienating people or trying to rally people or do something that I just you know I live my life away from Twitter and I love Twitter it's an amazing news I love it too it's an amazing way to interact with people it's fun but like on the list of things that I want to do with my 24 hours, tweeting back and forth with people in somewhat of an argument or a conflict, or even like a, even a back and forth that is heated, but maybe not an argument. It just doesn't appeal to me.

It's just, there's no winner in those moments, especially when you have people arguing over like the results of the data that was pulled from the algorithm like and i and i put a yeah i put a tweet out that just laughed about that and just kind of said like it's amazing how we fight with data and some guy but then like people just come over the top on that well it shouldn't be rock just go listen to i don't know go listen to tool or go back and listen to uh injustice for all yeah like and some person like yeah got mad and said,

that's not rock and hashtag Van Halen. I started hashtagging all these old artists. I'm like, yeah, those guys are doing fine. They don't need your support. Right. Now listen, I'm a big Van Halen guy from back in the day. Okay, so let's finish the Bob segment so we can dive deep into the Sean world here.

But a lot of questions came in about your... By the way, at some point, this will change. I just want you to know you're only 30 years old. So people are like, oh, there's Sean. That's Bob McKenzie. But at some point, it's going to become, oh, there's Bob. That's Sean McKenzie's dad. I'm pushing for that movement.

It's coming. It's coming, man. Maybe this is the first step. Like I said, you grow up with it. And it's 99.9% of the people are respectful. And I get that he's a huge name, a huge personality, an interesting guy that has been doing something for so long. So some people might go, oh, well, respect me.

Well, he's earned the respect. He's earned the respect. You've learned. You basically don't fight it. What are you going to do? And people aren't being dicks about it. No. People, I don't know anyone who, you know,

there are some personalities in the sports media world where they're kind of polarizing. And I can think of a bunch. I worked with one this morning, but there are people who love him and there's people who hate him. I don't think there's a big, like, we hate Bob McKenzie movement.

And that's the thing maybe that's the most, the thing I respect the most about him and maybe the most impressive thing is in a world where we talk about Twitter and everyone wants to hate on people and everyone gets angry. And anytime he does something, it's all just respect. Right. And so, and he's done something obviously to earn that. And I think he, it's not, you know, he's not, he's not a polarizing guy that's going to come out and, you know, he more breaks news than anything.

But still people get mad about the way you look, the way you talk, the way you dress, everything. And he seemed to collect millions of people that just like him. Which is amazing. Because he never adopted the strombo pants. I think that was his move there. I've worked on his fashion over the years.

Not to throw him under the bus, but that's a different segment for a different time. Can you work on mine? That's your next challenge. You're looking good. Wow, you haven't seen my roots drag pants here. Cara or Cara, who knows? Cara says, does his dad, Bob McKenzie, ever share

insider scoops with him? Also, any margarita recipes to share? No real margarita recipes. You just got to buy one of those jimmy buffett blenders that he's got and throw a bunch of booze into it and sometimes he makes them frozen like you know and you know some may call him a fraud for this this is a controversial moment i'm airing on the podcast right now sometimes like real talk yeah he just buys those uh frozen canned margaritas

and throws them in which is hey they're great that's like listening to nickelback you like what you like and and that's that's the best point is people would be like you're a fraud you don't make you don't spend 19 hours making your own limes in the backyard and juicing them and peeling them and making you know brewing your own oh but i do this with coffee like somebody will be like oh i went and made a coffee and they put a pod in a machine they press it down and it spits out a coffee and i'm like that's i make my french press and like there's a whole ritual involved i have a chemex and i buy the beans and like they have to be oh like in breaking bad yeah yeah and but like i don't care if you like if you like a keurig or whatever and that's your morning routine like why do i care i know you're right and like like so

people would get mad like you don't drink like and he does make really good margaritas that are fresh and scratch don't don't get me wrong here but so that's that no real uh okay now let's not bury the lead here this is very important because your father is known for breaking uh he's got lots of insiders and he breaks nhl stories has he ever uh shared a scoop with you? No, I don't think shared a scoop. Like, not like, hey, like, this is, like, you hear things. Like, more so growing up, it was, you'd hear the phone calls, right? Like, you'd be in the car with him. Like, and he'd be saying, like, okay, okay, like, you know,

I can't put this out till noon. Or, like, you know, this is happening at what time. Oh, but you didn't work, you did not work for sports. No, no. And even still now, you hear things. Like, you go over over for you know not so much christmas because you're off but like you know in the summer you know he's talking to people or you hear stuff but like it's see that's the thing about like people have a misunderstanding of what scoops are necessarily like if i've had scoops like someone has come to me and said hey i think this is happening but like

you need to you need to get that shit approved from multiple people like you can't just like and there are people that will just go to twitter with it and fire it into the sun and say this could happen it doesn't happen right and there's a lot of people that are all right with being wrong and that's fine but the thing that he is never all right with is being wrong see he'd rather get it right than get it first yes exactly and that's important like you know maybe he's gotten stuff wrong in the past or it didn't come to fruition the way but i don't think he's ever been wrong on a major scoop like i and people will correct me because you know twitter's twitter so he corroborates you know you know you have you know you know some you know your sources and he's been around a while right so

he knows the guys he can trust and the ones he needs to verify exactly and the other question i always get from people is like you know when he retires will you get his rolodex okay well okay let me don't steal the thunder so yeah so sometimes he doesn't he wouldn't share a scoot and being like hey here's tweet this this is happening no because it's his job like he's not giving it away to the competition as much as you know i'm his son it's's still his job to break news. But you know, if he knows something that can like, you know, if I'm doing something,

he might say, Hey, just a heads up, you know, but it's not a scoop scoop. It's more so just knowledge that he has. But when he, when he retires and well here,

let me, can I play a short snippet of me asking your dad, he's going to pass on his Rolodex. Your show, my man. It's my show, man. I'm in charge here.

But when you do retire, do you take your Rolodex and pass it on to Sean? Because then the conflict of interest is gone, right? Yeah. Well, we got different jobs too. I mean, he's a reporter, but a different type of reporter. You know, he's not looking to break news on the front lines every day. Not that he wouldn't if he didn't have some, but his is more along the lines of going to practice

and seeing what's going on. So his is less about the, you know, he's not covering the NHL at large on an everyday basis. He's got a very specific assignment when he goes to a Leaf practice or a Raptor practice or a Jays game or whatever the case may be. But we don't know what the future entails. We don't know where he'll end up. He could be heir apparent.

Heir apparent. Okay, so that was your dad's reply to that. And it's 100% true is that first and foremost, he could share the Rolodex all he wants. Anyone could get those numbers. Right now, I could text him and say, hey, I need a number for so-and-so's agent. I need a number for Gary Bettman.

I need a number for Coley Campbell, yada yada yada getting the number is the easy part anyone like they hand out at the start of the year you can get a book with every agent's number in it it's the ability to phone that agent and say hey i need info and then go who the hell are you like any like okay but then does it help to be able to say hey it's sean i'm bob mckenzie's son yes well it'll they'll take the call they'll talk but it still puts me about 20 people down their ladder of who they're giving info to that's the thing with breaking news and working with sources and there's a hierarchy right and each agent has a different list of people or each agent or each player each gm has

a different person they like more or person person they want to give information to. So I could get a call. I could talk to someone. It still puts me way down the list of people that they would trust with information. And it's something that you have to earn. It's a right that you have to put in for years and years and years and years.

And he's done that, which is why he breaks news. For me, and to go back to his point, so that was three years ago that podcast you said right so that was when i was more of just a general reporter now i'm more of a host which is what i've always wanted to do so i don't really like i'll break news if i have it i'm not hunting to break news i i want to be ron mclean or scott oak or james duffy more so than i want to be bob mckenzie or chris johnson or elliot Elliot Freeman. That's kind of my take on it. Could that change when Bob, your father, retires?

Because, by the way, three years ago, and I'm going to play this now, real short. I asked about retirement, and I need your thoughts on this one too. Do you have plans to retire? I remember hearing something about it. So what are the plans? Plan is I'm 60 years old now, and I've got, I think think three years left on my contract. And when that's up, I, I, I don't want to, I'll be 64 at that time. Um, when the contract expires. And so, cause I'll be 61 this summer. So three more full seasons after this one doing exactly what I'm doing, all things being equal. And then I don't want to be 24-7,

all-consuming, life-consuming, which this job is, outside of the nine weeks I take off in the summer. And so, you know, where we go from there after that, we'll see. You know, I'm open to, you know, doing some things like world juniors or things that have a start and a stop time as opposed to when you wake up in the morning, you're on the clock basically until you go to bed at night and that's seven days a week, 43 weeks of the year. I've been doing this a long time and there's other things that I want to do and I don't have time to do them right now. So maybe it was more than three years ago i don't know how old your dad now because that would make sense okay that would be right about three years ago so we've passed that whole like the contract so obviously i mean i saw him a lot yesterday because i saw him in the morning and i saw him at the night time uh yeah it was funny to see him on

both sides of the day it's like like, hello. All day with Bob. I mentioned to Hebsey this morning, I just said, oh, I mentioned you were coming on. And he says, oh, that's awesome. And then I mentioned your dad. I saw your dad a lot yesterday. I think I said something like, oh, he worked hard yesterday. And then Hebsey got mad.

He didn't work hard. He worked long and he goes on a whole diatribe. I didn't say he was working in a coal mine or whatever. But so if your dad were to retire, I mentioned word with him i said heir apparent is this like if you have considered you could you could fulfill that role in uh the nhl insider world see i don't think it's as easy as just being an heir apparent or like i said you know i could get the numbers could take calls. But when I look at what guys like, you know, I work on a daily basis with Chris Johnston and I think he's the guy that's

up and coming. Well, I shouldn't say up and coming cause he's already there. He's already an established guy, but like FOTM, Chris Johnston, by the way, FOTM means he's a friend of Toronto Mike.

Okay. And I think the beard was a big move for him. His whole career change of that beard. I remember he showed up when, uh, started one season. I'm like, nice beard. And he's like, yeah, big move for him. His whole career changed with that beard. I remember he showed up when the start of one season and I'm like, nice beard. And he's like,

yeah, I'm keeping it. I'm like, cool. And he's been a rocket trajectory. He's one of the very few people in sports media that gets like the A-OK to have facial hair. Is that right?

Well, it's like, you know, you can grow it, but more often than not, I'm sure boss will be like, what are you doing? Stop doing that. Well, I did bump into

Elliot Friedman once in the summer. We were doing this thing and I bumped into Elliot Friedman once in the summer. Uh, we were doing this thing and I bumped into him and he had a big beard. He grows the full on scary beard. But I guess, yeah, now I'm just trying to think, do,

do any other, yeah. Okay. Interesting. Like, cause it has to be, it has to improve your look. Like,

you know, if I, like I get scrapped, you need to have, if I'm hearing you correctly, you need to have a face that is improved by hiding it. And someone has to look at it and go, okay, we like that facial hair.

It actually looks better or as good. But like how many people do you know, well, a lot of people look better with facial hair, but how many people look more professional and clean cut? Not very many. It ends up making you look

a little more scruffy, a little more, you know. But it works for Chris. It works for CJ. But back to my point, we took a little detour there. We'll do that in the show. You know, I see the work that he puts into it.

And, you know, the interesting thing is, and my dad mentioned it in there, was the constant grind, the daily grind that nobody sees. And a lot of people go, well, you know, you could do this till you're 80. Like you just go on tv and you do a couple intermission segments what's like what's so hard about that like you know but it's the it's the part of the job where you wake up and you're calling people that probably don't want to

hear from you like some of them like you know that because you're digging for info it's being ignored by people it's competing against others you know people trying to get those sources it's the pressure trying to break news it's the stress of breaking news and going what if this is wrong this like you know what could happen here it's everything that you see before and after that two or three minute tv hit that makes that day stressful for him and i'm sure any insider any guy trying to break information would tell you that that's the case and you remember like on seinfeld when uh newman was complaining about the mail, the mail, it never stopped, right? The prospects, every year there's a new crop of prospects. And every year there's trades and every year there's, you know, there's a trade deadline, there's a draft.

There's, again, it's nonstop work and it's never, you know, agents and GMs aren't sitting there going, well, I take nine to five hours coming to my office. It's midnight. It's 1 a.m. It's 9 a.m. It's 6 a.m. It doesn't really matter. And now I'm thinking of Nick Kiprios' accidental tweet, right? Those fuckers at TSN, right?

It's a blood sport. But it's an iconic tweet now. It's amazing. And I love Kiprios the best. And as I always say, it could have been so much worse. Like if you're going to have a DM slip, and I think your have been so much worse. Like if you're going to have a DM slip and I think your old man knows about this,

but if you're going to have a DM slip into your tweets, you know, those fuckers at TSN is a good one. Oh, and it's a great tweet because how many times, I don't know, we've said like, oh, you know, like, you know, those guys at TSN or like, you know, we got them today or like just, you know,

it's a friendly competition that I'm sure Kipper meant it by. Like either, you know, at that level, level there's obviously i say friction in the sense that i'm sure it's like not like it's not anchorman they're not going to the street and fighting and brick didn't kill a guy with a trident no i can see uh vick router out there ready to rumble make the final make the final he's dead i gotta say hi to vick he's a regular listener i love vick um yeah but it's not it's not like that like but uh it's a stressful job because you know your your life and your livelihood is relied upon to break stories and to put your neck out on the line and and by a lot of time by breaking one story

all of a sudden you're getting a call from the person that you know you you teeter a fine line between helping someone and really pissing them off because sometimes scoops are like hey we want this out there other times it's like we do not want this out there so the same person who you know wants you to help them the next scoop you might bury them with something and so they might be your friend they might be you know you're an ally one minute and then the next they're telling you like i'm never talking to you again this is bullshit what you did so the the stress and the constant pressure that i i don't know it i've never felt it on those guys levels but i can imagine it is wearing it never stops okay uh let me uh there's a quick little alcohol segment

because i got a few questions about alcohol but but these questions aren't about beer though, but I have beer for you. Now, six cans of fresh Great Lakes beer for you. I like that. This is from Great Lakes Brewery. So enjoy. I gave you a mix, if you will, but there's a good little mix pack.

Red leaf lager and some fantastic. It's all fresh and it's all tasty because it's from Great Lakes Brewery. This one looks good. Yeah, the Humber, that is a good one. pack. Red Leaf Lager and some fantastic. It's all fresh and it's all tasty because it's from Great Lakes Brewery. This one looks good. Yeah, the Humber, that is a good one. Enjoy. This is amazing. Thank you.

And thank you, Great Lakes Brewery, for sending that over for Sean McKenzie. Gifts are the best when they are the alcohol variety. They are even better. I take it your dad didn't share any of his Great Lakes beer that he took home with him. He did not. I steal enough of his booze.

I've got a question about that coming up that i won't steal your second but i also want to give you a tasty uh lasagna courtesy of palma pasta this is can you lift that and see if you're a strong man here not as easy as you thought that is dense that is a i always say it has heft to it and people say that is like you could you could knock a human being out with that that's's right. You could fight your way through a rabid crowd. Now, lasagna. That's honestly, you're going to let me know.

I'm sure that that's the best lasagna you've ever bought from a store. You're in lasagna. You are killing it. This is nice. Yeah. When you do these hits and stuff, do they reward you so?

I've never been rewarded this nice doing anything like this. That's good to hear. I live in a business that's not, you don't get instant gratification for really anything. Like you're just expected to do well. Work harder for less.

Yeah, keep going. So to be handed beer and lasagna. And I know you've been aching for one of these. This is from stickeru.com. That's a fantastic company. They're in Liberty Village. Slap this on my luggage. You can slap it on your luggage your car your laptop wherever it ends up just tweet me a picture of where it ends up that's a toronto mic sticker that might be a luggage that's where i put my stickers right on my luggage okay well i'd be honored to be uh to be on your

your luggage there to be thrown in an overhead bin and locked away for three hours at a time now sticker you has some exciting things coming up in early 2020. They've got a sticker museum and a custom experience center that's taking, it's going to happen at their Queen and Bathurst location. They've got the world's largest sticker store on Queen Street and Bathurst. And that's also, coincidentally, that is going to be the location of TMLX6. That is the sixth Toronto Mike listener experience. It's going to happen at sticker. You, we had, uh,

the fifth one at Palma's kitchen and we had the fourth one at great lakes brewery. So we're going to make our way a little East, not to Whitby or anything, but, uh, Queen and Bathurst. So Queen and Bathurst is the biggest sticker store in the world.

That's correct. Yeah. How much space is there? Cause Queen and Bathurst, it's two stores and three floors and they got a whole bunch of stuff going on there.

And yeah, you can come check it out at TMLX6. I live right around the block from there. I'm honored. Well, dude, you're going to have to make an appearance at TMLX6.

I will. And I'm going to hold you to it. I'll be there. Cool. So I gave you everything here. Let me.

Okay. So alcohol. I gave you the beer. Yep. And this question is from, let me get the right i gave you the beer and this question is from let me get the right credit here hold on here uh leafer in 1984 does your dad just gripe about it on twitter or do you actually go to the house and drink all of his wine um both he gripes about it because i do

it it's this all comes with a bit of a caveat though okay what's that so when it goes it almost goes back to so when i went to fanshawe college um i was getting ready to go it was like you know three or four months before i actually went so it would have been the end of the year my brother had just come home he's playing hockey at st lawrence university and he was like uh going to a senior year or something at the time and i was looking through electives and i'm going okay what am i going to take what i'm a pop culture pop culture looks great it's the the one that sounds amazing and he looks at me and he's like no and i'm like what do you mean no like and i'm 18 at the time he's like do not take pop culture and so he's i'm like why he's like well he's like just

i'm known on the team as the guy who picks the easy electives like i'm i've taken a lot of them i know how to like take the right yeah the bird course yeah and you know because no one does anyone really want to learn anything in electives like you have your what you're focusing on i was taking i was going to a broadcasting school i didn't like want to take history or all that kind of stuff i think pop culture sounds amazing yeah and he's like it's going to be essays your pop culture teacher it'll be essays on like babe ruth But an essay is an essay. But if you had to write a piece on Muhammad Ali, for example, like it's, yeah, it's an essay, but okay. Either way.

Or you could write, you could be literally, I remember, because I took a pop culture course at U of T, and I wrote, I remember writing one, one I did write on Muhammad Ali, another I did write on Babe Ruth, but you could write a whole thing on Beatlemania. But like, you know, I'm not going to be writing things on like why Imagine Dragons is rock like it's it's gonna be deeper and that teacher is gonna like really care about pop culture and you're gonna insult him by being like I don't like mumble rap like this like it's it's a different form of pop culture they're talking so he's like take wines of the world okay I didn't even know this was and I'm like and I'm like what I'm like I don't like wine i mean he's like just take it shut up stop talking so i'm like okay i'll take it so you know i get there and uh the uh the instructor is a guy who like i must have just came from france because he's got the heaviest french accent and he's nuts he's he's crazy but i didn't like wine at the time

so he's going around the room and you know i he's like last last bottle of wine you drank what's the last uh you know and something okay so you know he's going around and all these kids are like naming these bottles of wine and after almost everyone he's going shit shit and he's screaming at him like that shit and the kids are all like so i'm going okay it's getting to me and right i'm like uh okay well my parents drink uh yellowtail shir. And I'm so young and naive at the time that I'm like, well, you know, I think my dad's a classy guy and I have respect for him. And, you know, I think if he bought that, it's probably pretty good. And so I'm like, say it with pride. I'm like, Yellowtail Shiraz. He's like, absolute fucking shit.

And I'm like, oh, okay. Like, and so then I, as the course went along, I really got into the wine and I really started. And then I started realizing that if you drink Yellowtail Shiraz, it goes back to my point of just drink it and enjoy it. Yeah, it's like Nickelback. Yeah, just drink it and if you love it. But then I really got into it. And over the years, I've kind of really, really got into wine and kind of studied it. And it's a passion.

It's something I love. What, you call yourself a sommelier? No, no that a real term like matt cause and those guys are like real he is a real wine guy yeah i'm more of a like i just it's a hobby it's a i'm an a wine enthusiast all right well chris black has a question for you yeah but sorry and oh yeah yeah so over the years i've kind of his, just because from what I've liked, like, he, you know, he used to drink that, and then he went to kind of the big California Napa wines, which are awesome, but I kind of got more into the French and Italian, and I introduced him to a lot of kind of cool stuff, and I think he would be the, you know, I'm not taking

credit for, but I think he'd be the one that I got him into, you know, like Brunello's from Italy, and, you know, different Bordeaux's and a lot of regions that he wasn't even kind of dipping his toe into. So I, over the years I've brought him a lot of wine and I still do, but he's, you know, he's got the budget for it. I have the knowledge, he's got the budget. So yes, I do go and drink, but more often than not, the bottles that I'm drinking are the ones that I told him to buy. So it's fair. That's called quid pro quo. Exactly. It's totally fine. You know, I tell him what to buy. He buys it. I drink half of it. It's totally fair. Sounds fair to me. So Chris Black wants to know your favorite bottle for under 50 bucks.

Ooh, that's a tough, that's a tough price point. Cause under 50, there's like, there's a bunch of Brunellos that are like 52 so i'm tweaking the rules here let's so like we'll go under 55 there's like it's a castle giacondo brunello that i think's like 52 bucks or the bampfy brunello that's like 53 but there's a lot of like really good southern rhone stuff and again this is like wine geek stuff that a lot, half the people listening to be like, I don't know what you're talking about, but there's a ton of like San Jose from the Northern Rhone that are a little bit harder to find at the LCBO that are amazing. But like the best bottle is probably like,

uh, I don't know. Lopez de Heredia, uh, Rioja for like 49. That was at the LCBO a few weeks ago. See, I told you this is the uh tough

questions you're fielding here you're struggling i can see that is a horribly hard question because it's like there's so many options and there's so much variety and it's yeah you can go down a you can go down a deep deep path on best bottle under 50 bucks all right last bob mckenzie question is do you know like why why did we lose the Bob McKenzie podcast? That is a good question. And I know it's a question for him, but he hasn't been back. So I'm asking his son. I think, trying to, I think it was just, it was a passion project. And I think it was something that he loved to do. But I think as he does wind down towards retirement, I think it was just one of those things that's going to pay the price.

I think it's just a casualty of him starting to wind things down. And I think he really enjoyed doing it. But it was also a podcast just by himself, right? And, you know, like as a podcaster, you know, I'm asking you, I guess, to sit here and do a full podcast on your own is probably a lot harder than having guests, right? Like just to fill the time, like because you're almost just you know you gotta it would be shorter yeah that's for sure yeah and i think that was you know i think that's the way he wanted it to be but i also think it probably took a lot more energy to sit and come up with the whole show

himself and i think he loved doing it i don't think it was something that he thought like i'm i need to stop doing this but i think it just probably for him the interest something had to give and that's what gave. Yeah. And I think it was one of the less lucrative parts of his empire. And it was less lucrative and I think it was more of a passion project. And I think everyone knows that,

you know, when you start winding things down or when you start cutting things out as you try to lighten your workload, the passion projects are probably the first things to go as much as... Oh yeah, I know that. Yeah, yeah. You kind of have to cut something and that's what paid the price.

Now, uh, you mentioned your brother, but let's shout out your brother, Mike. Uh, yeah. GM and coach.

Yeah. Recently, uh, coach he's the GM and then, um, had to make the tough decision to let the coach go and wasn't ready to hire a coach yet. So he hopped behind the bench himself and he'll, uh, reins for now and that's uh that's pretty awesome too because he

was a hell of a hockey player yeah yeah just yeah didn't have nhl in his future no no he um played four years at st laurence university came out uh went to a two nhl camps played in the east coast league in the ahl split it kind of for two years, and then just got in that grind of, you know, you're a good East Coast Hockey League player, you're not drafted, the opportunities might not be there because you're not a first, second, third-round pick. Got to the A, kind of maxed out potential

as far as he's not going to be a 20-30 goal scorer in the A. He was, you know, going to be a fourth, third liner. And I think having a guy like my dad around probably helped because, you know, he's realistic and he sees enough guys in his situation where he's not going to go. I think, I think you're going to make it. You keep grinding. You're going to make it. You're going to be that 36 year old guy who plays 10 years in the a as a fourth liner.

Like Roy Hobbs in the natural yeah like like and i think my dad having a guy like my dad around probably helped because he was realistic you know he was a crazy hockey dad at times but he was never one of those guys that wasn't unrealistic and he was crazy more in the sense that he was too honest like you know you're not this good or you're you know you should be playing here it wasn't like he was never one of those parents that was like, NHL's in your future and we're going to get there no matter what. So he knew he wanted to work in hockey.

A realist. Yeah. And, and, you know, he knew he wanted to work in hockey. He knew that the earlier he got started, the better, you know, you can only play minor pro hockey for so long. So he got out when he did. And now he's a, he's the smart hockey mind of the family. No, good for him. That's, that's a, he's a young man too, and that's quite the accomplishment.

Yeah, to be an OHL GM at 33 years old is pretty good. Amazing. Now, James Duthie. I don't know if you heard of this guy. I know what's coming here. How did you blow a four-up lead after four holes at Cabot to a man well past his prime? Does it still haunt you? Yes. Okay, tell me this story, because this is the Cabot to a man well past his prime. Does it still haunt you?

Yes. Okay. Tell me this story because this is the Cabot links. Yes. Yeah. And this is a kind of a famous world famous. Yeah. So we went out,

me, James, David Amber, one of James's good friends. David Amber's booked on Toronto Mike. Really? It's coming in February. David's one of the best human beings ever.

I might have to pull that clip. Say it again slowly February. David's one of the best human beings ever. I might have to pull that clip. Say it again slowly. David Amber is one of the worst human beings. That's what I'll pull and it'll be all out of context. That's perfect.

That's exactly what media is all about. We take the one little sound bite and David, listen to what Sean said about you. No, I love spending time

with James too. I golf with those guys I don't even know how many times in the summer. Once, one to three't even know how many times in the summer, once one to three times a week, I'd say in summer, me, uh, me, James and David. So as I recall, uh, if I may use this term, James was a sweetheart. Like I remember when he left, I was thinking like, what a genuinely nice man he is. And Dave too, but James is so like for how

big of a personality he is in personality. I mean, in the sense for how famous he is and Dave too, but James is so like for how big of a personality he is and personality. I mean, in the sense for how famous he is now, like for how notable and how, well, as I, as discussed with the episode of your father, like when,

when Rogers got the NHL deal, the only, and I had Scott Moore on too. We talked about this too. The only person at TSN who was actually approached in an attempt to poach them, if you will, was James Duthie. They wanted James Duthie

to host Hockey Night in Canada. That makes sense because I think he's an amazing talent and I'm not surprised that he'd be the guy that they would try to approach. But I'll do anything right now

to get around blowing the four hole lead. We can talk about it. No, but yeah, so we went to Cabot Links. It was an unbelievable, like a trip of a lifetime, like bucket list type of trip and we all love golf gorgeous right because you're i mean i've driven that i've driven the cabot trail it's spectacular and so we stayed in

one of the villas on the course so you're right in the first fairway you can and like that place is like for any golfer you got to go because like you know for anyone who golfs you know the stuck-up culture of golf can drive you nuts especially as a go because like you know for anyone who golfs you know the stuck-up culture of golf can drive you nuts especially as a young guy like you know like and i love where golf is going because it's younger it's cooler you can wear hoodies you can like nike nike has come out with all their air max golf shoes like you can now it's got it's got more swag golf is cool now like and there's brands that are making golf much more than just kind of the slacks and you know the country club lifestyle and cabots

that like you could just hop over your balcony at the thing and start you know chipping at nine at night under the greens and the marshall drive by and hey boys expensive expensive yeah yeah it's not cheap but that's you know as we talk and i'm learning so much more about you i realize these two worlds i know nothing about i don't golf and I don't drink wine. It's like, it's like, could Sean and I be friends? I'm thinking. Of course.

And that, again, it goes to my point of, I don't care what you're into. Like just do whatever makes you happy. I, I don't only sit and talk wine and golf with people. Like that's just a,

it's hobbies, but it's a, it just so happens that in my line of work, those are two things that are very popular. But either way, we went to Cabot. It was amazing. um more like james i beat you all the time take that like it's uh it was a one-off but james is a great golfer and he's very consistent he's an old man golfer because

because he brought this on himself i can say this about. Doesn't hit the ball very far, but he's consistent. Right. And yeah, I was final round. We played five rounds at Cab, but we're walking, and I was on fire. Just went up four holes on him. It was like a $50 match or something. We decided to make it for fun.

It was going great, and then it went all downhill. I had one bad hole on Tan and I unraveled horribly like a ball of yarn. And then he just consistently just, it was like the tortoise in the hair. He just kind of passed by me slowly but surely and will never let me live it down ever. That's great. Now you're born and raised in Whitby. Yep. But where do you live today? In Toronto?

Yeah, I'm at like King and, basically like King and Portland between King and Spadina and King and Bath there. So kind of right in the mix of everything. Yeah, that's a cool spot to be. Okay, so I'm going to just take a moment to welcome. I welcomed them officially yesterday, but this is the second episode of the year, and I want to welcome the Keitner Group,

new sponsors of Toronto Mic'd, and Austin Keitner. I've known him for years now. We're going to have a segment on the show called Toronto Real Estate Minute with Austin Keitner of the Keitner. I've known him for years now. We're going to have a segment on the show called Toronto Real Estate Minute with Austin Keitner of the Keitner Group at Keller Williams. And any FOTMs, anyone listening

who has any questions at all about Toronto real estate, DM it to me on Twitter or write me at mike at torontomike.com and I'll make sure Austin gets it and we'll address these. But I'd like to welcome Austin. And Austin's funny thing is,

coincidentally, I bumped into Austin's brother,el joel keitner like yesterday afternoon it was just a complete coincidence and we took a photo in the spot where we'll take a photo shortly sean but the famous photo the famous photo that's right but when it's it's just great to have the the keitner group on board so that's fantastic fantastic. And Banjo Dunk was my guest yesterday, and he actually recorded a really cool little ad. So here's Banjo Dunk. Duncan Fremlin here. You know me as Banjo Dunk.

And on April 16th, 2020, I'll be bringing my band Whiskey Jack to Zoomer Hall in Liberty Village to host the 7th annual Stompin' Tom birthday celebration. This is the highlight of the year for our touring show, Stories and seventh annual Stompin' Tom birthday celebration. This is the highlight of the year for our touring show, Stories and Songs of Stompin' Tom. This year, we'll be joined by FOTM and funny man Sean Cullen, as well as Great Big C's Murray Foster. More guests will be announced soon.

The show will be broadcast live on Robbie Lane's nightly show on AM 740 and 96.7 FM. It'll also be streamed on the internet, but there's nothing quite like being part of the crowd when everyone stands to sing what is clearly our national anthem, the hockey song. It's not a large theater, folks, so get your tickets early. Go to hellooutthere.ca and click on show to buy your tickets. We'll see you April 16th. You're not supposed to be crazy to write songs like that, but it helps a hell of a lot. Stompin' Tom. I dig that.

Stompin' Tom Connors. There's a great Canadian legend. Okay, so, I'll let Charlie Mizner set us up here. So, Charlie says, Why sports broadcasting? Given who your dad is, it may be a no-brainer,

but what motivated you to do this as a career? I knew I always wanted to do something in sports because you just grow up in it, and it's sports, sports, sports all the time. And it was something that I kind of, from a young age, had an understanding of what it was all about. I think that's the biggest thing for me, but I always knew, I always thought maybe a sports agent, you know, that would be cool. That would be something that I'd be interested in. And then

it was like, well, you need a business degree. I suck at math. You need a law degree, eight years of school. Like that's not really in my future. So the big moment for me, I think, and we traveled a lot, more so my brother than me when I was really young. We'd go to World Juniors with my dad and we'd just kind of sit and hang out and watch. More often than not, he would go, they'd leave Christmas Eve

and I'd stay home with my mom and they'd go to Austria and all these places, Sweden. But those must be the best gigs in hockey. I always i always thought like i know they're not there now though they're here yeah right there i noticed they're at the world junior center or whatever which is probably in agent court yeah it is but some of like some of the stories like some of the the stories you hear from their trips to russia but those are the best those are business they sound amazing are business. They sound amazing. The coolest spots in the world are those. You know,

it comes with the, the, the, you know, you have to say that it is a ton of work and that those days are ridiculously long and they're, you know, you're in a foreign country, you know,

working with people who don't know the way that we do things as far as just the tech goes, like, cause it's hard. Like you go to different arenas and you realize how different and difficult the job becomes when it's you know a language barrier and even you go to rinks in the nhl that people don't really necessarily know okay quick quick aside on tech is did you see the uh the feed of the the women's under uh that's embarrassing isn't that because i know we have a better stream at toronto i know

that's embarrassing like just get just get a we have a better stream at Toronto Mic'd. I know. That's embarrassing. Like, just get, just get a better feed. It looks like it's like through a doorbell. I know. That was one of those

doorbell cans. And the worst is you go on Twitter and everyone's like, you know, and it's just, it's simple fact. You need, you need better quality

and people are on Twitter going, oh, well, this, this is why they shouldn't have better, like, and just guys,

just sometimes just stop talking. Like, if you're one of those guys on Twitter, like, oh, you know, that's the response.

They'll always be like, well, because nobody cares. Yeah, nobody wants to watch. Well, how are they going to get into it when you go to try to watch it? And it's awful. Like it's the chicken and the egg, right? It's like. But who's responsible for how?

Because it's one thing to be streaming only. In this day and age, I think that's probably fine. But that particular stream was unwatchable. Yeah, and I don't even know like what who makes that decision to go let's let's lock off a potato with a lens and fire it up somebody go to i was gonna say somebody go to best buy and find the cheapest thing there is yeah like that was like one of those like a gopro with a foggy lens gopro but not like you're right but you're right it's the fish lens that's what they call that yeah it's like the fish eyed lens that you know but like it was GoPro would not like that. You're right, yeah. But you're right, it's the fish lens, that's what they call that, right? Yeah, it's like the fish-eyed lens

that, you know, but it was so far away, like just have someone at least hold, like I'd rather have someone on the glass like this with an iPhone just live streaming it

because that's at least better. I'm with, yeah. Like at least follow along. Okay, I mean, that's a quick tangent, but you talked about streaming the World Juniors and I remember seeing

some of that footage and thinking that's like unacceptable. Yeah, but okay. So yeah, so we, you know, those guys had amazing times, but as I got older, I kind of took more of an interest in it. And so I went to the,

it was, and I was actually just watching it. My brother's place the other day because it was one of the vintage World Junior games on it. It was the Justin Pogge Vancouver year. I had 2006. Right, we ran the gamut then. Yeah, it was when Steve Downey was just crushing guys left, right and center. I had 2006. Right. We ran the gamut that year. Yeah. It was when Steve Downey was just crushing guys left, right, and center.

It was ridiculous. I sat, I was probably about 16 at the time. And I went to the rink every day with them. And I sat in there, because they always get like a private box. And it's not a private box. They take over a private box as they're set. And so they always have a couple chairs. So I would sit there from like,

you know, nine in the morning till, you know, 11 at night and just watch them do it. So I think I had a full understanding of what went into TV, that it wasn't just the sit and talk part that a lot of people see. I knew how the camera works. I knew how, you know,

the production meetings, I was sitting in on all that stuff at such a young age that I thought this is cool and and it wasn't just well this is cool because you get to go on tv or this is cool the cool part was you get the rap parties and you go to earls every night and you know it was it was a fun you know and they travel and still to this day one of my favorite parts of the job is traveling and that was what appealed to me but I also had a full understanding of what went into broadcasting when I was 14 15 15, 16. So I think I saw that and thought, okay, I love this and I love all elements of it. Not just kind of the glamorous side that people see. Right. Cool. So Fanshawe is where you end up going? Went to Fanshawe for a year and a

half. But you didn't like it there? Did not like it at all. No. Not a program I would recommend anyone. I think it was a program. What happened at Fanshawe? It just. It's real time. It just wasn't a program that I think had the best interests of students. What's the program called? It's.

They call it broadcast journalism, but you get there and it's like a super weird radio program where it's more about. They have their own station there right and my experience was is that they and it's a real station that broadcasts out to london and my feel was that they were more worried about manning the station and and putting that out than they were about actually teaching people interesting like and like i learned more sitting on a TV set for one day than I did a fan show. Because it's, maybe that station was generating revenue

and they wanted unpaid labor to fuel it. And it was like, first year was like, you know, you were doing stuff and it just didn't, the guy that was running it is no longer there. And he was a guy that a lot of people had issues with if you started asking around the business there was you know you talked to a guy like greg brady who went there fotm greg brady you ask greg brady he'll he'll have some interesting stories about fanshow but like right away it was to the point where like i i was told by the head of the program

that you know sports and gossip are not ways that you want to make a living in this business. So I'm like, I grew up like, Do you know who you're talking to? Do you not recognize this chin? And I was like, oh, well, that's a nice welcome thought. Thank God I put my money into this program early on. And then like, so I remember early on doing a story there where I uh trying to

think it was nazim kadri was head to the world juniors and we were required to do like four stories a day and just it was just the the requirements were just ridiculous because it was just trying to feed feed the radio station feed the radio station come up with ideas and so i got pierre mcguire on the line and, again, like it was just a guy that I grew up with. It was just someone. And so, you know, other kids are doing stories on a local shoe store has a sale, like, you know,

and that's amazing. It's great news. Or the local policy is changing. And I had an interest in hockey. So I remember I got Pierre Maguire and he gave me a couple of great quotes and I pieced it together. And, you know,

the head of the program came back and failed me on that and said, this TSN story was too easy for you to get. Stop relying on your sources. Oh, that's like a shot across the bow. And right away when I saw that, I was like, here we go. That's like being the teacher's kid, right? Yeah, I'm like, here we go.

It wasn't a program that I felt when I went in there saying I want to do sports and I want to be a sports TV guy. I felt like it was looked down upon. And like I said, the guy that was making those decisions and putting that vibe out there is gone. So, you know, for kids that are going to Fanshawe and start thinking about it, don't take my word because I'm old. It was a long time ago.

It might have changed. But I went to the College of Sports Media. Like I left. Okay, so I've had Jim Van Horn on the show and he used to be there. And I remember you actually, you came up in the conversation actually where we talked about. So tell us what is the college of sports media?

It is the best place ever. I'll start by prefacing. But much like, but much like, again, much like, like golf and wine. Like this is an expensive taste.

This is not expensive. So here Fanshaw was you go there and you try to find what you're interested in and they would push you in certain ways they would go well we you know we're all about hardcore news we want you to go to like and so back to the just quickly just to sum up kind of what fanshaw wasn't that college sports media was was i remember i had a uh we had in the second year we had to do an internship where you know you could find your own internship but more often than not this guy wanted to place you somewhere so i uh world juniors were in saskatoon same year that Cadbury went. And I lined up a press pass if I could get it,

which I could. I would pay my travel because I was going to go to the World Juniors anyways over Christmas break with my dad and kind of see how everything worked. Right. And I had set up something with the local radio stations where I could phone in updates on Cadbury.

I could get them sound. I could bring it back. And, you know, I brought it to them. Too big time. That's not, that's not that's that you won't learn there huh and then i so okay whatever i get he just didn't like you yeah and then it was like well i have a uh an internship set up with greg brady at leaf's lunch back when leaf's lunch was not like it was the old was it am 640 or 640 640 yeah yeah yeah and uh bill waters

yeah yeah yeah yeah so i could intern there and he's like too big of a market. So he tried to put me, he tried to put me at the news station in Chatham. Although technically I'm, and this is very pedantic, but I believe 640, like it's technically like Richmond Hill or something like it's technically. Yeah.

And like, it was like, it was like, go to Chatham, Ontario. And I can set that up for you. And I'm like, I'm from Whitby.

Like, come on, man. Like, let's, let's at least be realistic here. Right. And that was the Oshawa station. And that was at the moment where I'm like, I'm from Whitby. Like, come on, man. Like, let's at least be realistic here. Right, the Oshawa Station. And that was at the moment where I was like,

this isn't from, like, I'm not going to learn here. This isn't something that's going to better me. And then so I applied to College of Sports Media basically after that conversation. How did you learn about College of Sports Media? It was out there and everyone kind of, in my world, or like more so, you know, the old man's world, had started hearing about it. Jim Van Horn. Well, do we have name drop because i remember the names were impressive but

jim van horn david lannis started it and i remember when it first started and even like you know within you know our circles you'd hear about and go well it sounds kind of like a gimmick it sounds kind of like a cash grab and still like i think it's now that we've put more people in tv i think less and less people think that but when i applied it was very much you're applying there like cash grab. It's, you know, because it is expensive. It's like 18,000 bucks or something like it's it's not cheap. But I applied. I talked to people that went there and then I went there and immediately felt like this was a place that wants me to be a sports broadcaster.

And my warning to anyone who is thinking about that is it's extremely specific and there was a lot of kids that were like 18 straight out of high school who went there and i'm like what are you doing here like go take a general arts degree like it's not a school that unless you're someone like me who at 15 years old said i'm going to be a sports broadcaster there were kids that came in and were like, oh, I don't really know what I want to do. Yeah, they had to go somewhere. Yeah.

And the parents were going to pay for it. And like, in that case, go to a Western and have fun for four years at the same dollar amount. But it is like, you know, right from the get-go. It's Jim Van Horn the first day going, come to the studio. Here's a four-line script.

Read it for me and i'm going to critique you and like that was more and he's great he's amazing some love to jimmy i think he's fantastic he's he's on my top list of people that have gotten me to the place where i am today have you heard clips of him on 10 50 you get okay because he was a uh uh rock jock on yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i should have went it on the top 40 station. Yeah. I should have went in with the top 40. You can, you can do everything.

Yeah. But that was like, like that one first day at, at, uh, CSM was more impactful than, and also like no offense to the people that were teaching me there, but none of them had done it.

That's right. Like I grew up in a world where, and like, I don't want it to sound like I'm diminishing other people, but I grew up in a world where and like i don't want it to sound like i'm diminishing other people but i grew up in a world where i was learning from guys like ryan rashog who would teach me on set james duffy you know just like and then i'd see guys from sportsnet that i knew that were great and welcoming so like when someone's telling me well sports isn't a good avenue for you and this guy's never been on a real network in his life i'm going well who am i supposed to believe here and then i go to jim van horn who is this like legendary guy who's done

everything and he's saying i like this you're great or do this more i actually sit there and go well this has value to me this means something and then david lannis who worked for the score forever and has seen it all these are people who have done it who have really know the business and then so the first year is amazing it's more it's not theory but it's more like like you know david landis is a genius in the sense that his one class that he teaches i don't know if it's still the same way but it was like a friday at like 3 30 and it was called live hits class and it's the simplest concept ever but every school should adopt this he gives you like a four line thing.

Like just make it your own, read it, like just whatever. And then. Oh, you pretend you're lying. And in 15 minutes, I'm taking that script away from you. I'm ripping it up,

throwing it out. And then you're going to line up and we're going to have kids just throw stuff at you. We're going to have kids yell. That's what this is, you know, we're live and this is,

I'm not going to stitch out of this. Yeah. And it's chaos. And if you get it right, you get to go home. You're done. If you do your hit properly, you leave. If you if you don't you're the back of the line right so like there was kids at like you know six o'clock two and a half hours later trying to get through the thing which is a great lesson and it was also honest that you know come to the final six months you know they would sit people down and say you're we think you're good to be on air

or we think you have a future in this and And they'd say to other people, we don't necessarily think that. Which is, some would say it's cruel. Some would say it's mean. Others would say it's preparation for a business that doesn't really care about you. And if you're not good, you're not getting on air. It's simple as that. So I think it was a school that really, really helped me. It's really specific, but a school that has turned out a lot of talent. Can you name drop some people we recognize from being on the air who went to CSM? Like, besides yourself, obviously. Faisal Kamisa, Danielle Michaud.

I'm going to forget some, like, Nick Alberga. When Faisal was on, we definitely did talk about his experience at CSM. When Faisal was on, we definitely did talk about his experience at CSM. Yeah. Yeah. And there's not, the only people I've talked to that don't like are the ones that were told things they probably didn't want to hear. Like, you know, maybe you shouldn't go on air or maybe, or people that were 18 and went there expecting to come out and be the next, you know, Elliot Friedman or Ron McLean or Strombo or guys like that where right it's not

really how it works but um i'm trying to think i'm george populist who's no longer in the business he was a good friend of mine he was hired as a sports ed anchor like like a week left in school like he would get he had a job on a national network before he even graduated in what world does that happen that's amazing um who else there was a there's a ton like but then then there's people that went on to be like you know like big-time producers and there's a guy that you know he he's high up with messiah the raptors there's a lot of people that went on to do not broadcasting stuff but stuff in sports that is very very impressive and important like you know Alex Kuhn is a cameraman of mine. I shouldn't say of mine because, you know.

You have to share him. He's an amazing cameraman and shooter at Sportsnet. And he can do amazing things. There's a ton of guys out there and girls that have come from CSM that immediately jump right into the business. So you get in your education, if you will, at the College of Sports Media, but where do you, you know, before you get the gig at Sportsnet,

because I'm going to be very interested how you got this current gig, but where did you kind of, you know, where did you break into the industry to get some experience? So to even double back quickly, there was a guy named Donal Beattie who worked at Rogers Durham in Oshawa who is right there with Jim Van Horn is one of the guys who really helped me and I was finished high school,

knew I wanted to do broadcasting, but wanted to get some experience. And I think it probably went back to my dad saying, you know, if we're going to send you to school and, you know, we're going to, you know, invest all this time and money and effort into you becoming a broadcaster, let's make sure you're good at it. Because it's one of those things that like, you know, you could be the hardest working hockey player in the room. You could be six foot four and in incredible shape. But if you can't think the game, you can't play.

It's a little bit like that where you can have all the knowledge in the world. You could be the smartest stats guy but if you can't get on a camera and talk it just doesn't i was gonna say it's nature and nurture like yeah yeah similar hockey maybe a little maybe a little less nature than you'd have in hockey where there's a great nature component you can get better but there's also a natural skill some people just get us think quick on your feet you're gonna communicate effectively and uh yeah so we kind of decided that i would take a victory lap and you know in It's also a natural skill. Some people just uncomfortable. You have to think quick on your feet so you're going to communicate effectively. Yeah. So we kind of decided that I would take a victory lap

in grade 12 and do a co-op through high school. And so I got in at local Rogers TV, which is amazing. It was back before Rogers, back when Rogers would take everyone and anyone, like just come one, come all, volunteer, get on air. And so Donald Beattady was a guy that he was the sports reporter and anchor at the time but he loved editing he loved the behind the scenes

part so you know within two weeks he kind of trained me there and said go to this golf tournament shoot a story for me make it two and a half minutes whatever come back and edit it we'll edit it together and if your voice and the story you told and your stand-up is good you're roger's new sports reporter for six months what these are the good old days and i was like and i was 18 so like and he was happy because he it allowed freedom up to anchor the six o'clock show and it freed him up to do the more creative stuff that he wanted he'd often come out and shoot for me he'd edit he'd wow put together features so he liked back then it was probably crap but it was good enough to air in his mind right and for six months at 18 years old i did five stories you know local

stories covering high school football everything but this whole cable 10 experience does not exist today and that's the that's the tough part to see is when i even when i left Fanshawe I was looking for a place to just cut my teeth a little bit more because I left early and needed to fill the gap and I wanted to do on-air stuff and so I tried to basically go back to Rogers and it was like well you know we're not really hiring we don't really take volunteers as much because simple fact like it's not and I'm not knocking them it's just that's the way the economy was and that's the way the business went where i went from at 18 doing five reports a week to not being able to get back on air at rogers and that's what's tough is that's why it's a hard business for for kids to well you know that's that's why people roll their own now exactly you can't really you know

and no offense to your employer or your dad's employer but uh you can't rely on the the cable companies to give you know you can't you got to do it yourself no and so that was and again that kind of led me to know that I wanted to go to school for that and my dad said okay you know you're not great but you're good enough there's potential there you know there's something there I got to write that I got four kids I got to write

that down you're not great but you're good enough well it's pretty you know it's encouragement but not too much but to me it's one thing the hockey side I totally get it. Like at some point you have to be a realist and say, you, the odds of you being an NHL player are slim to none. And slim just got on a train heading out of town.

And more people probably need to know that. And, you know, because being in my dad's position, you see the behind the scenes of, you see kids that are like, you know, on the cusp and vert on the verge.

And then, you know, you get the chance to talk to the GM about that guy. And he's like, Oh yeah, he's a placeholder. He's just, you know,

but in that kid's mind and it's not fair. It's it. Cause they don't ever communicate that, but that's hockey. Quick aside. Uh, do you know, do you know of anyone who,

uh, like attended a draft and was not drafted? Like this is always, I always think so. Everyone who attends a draft and was not drafted? This is always... No. So everyone who attends a draft, they know 100% that they're being drafted, right? I think so. Maybe more back in the day, but I think most... Yeah.

There's so many... And shout out to my dad and the guys that do all that, but they rank them so perfectly. Right. It's almost like you know where you're going like for the most part right there's no like and agents are so good now to make sure to protect their players that that's not happening like they say okay show up or you know if you're a bubble guy you don't need to be there yeah don't take the yeah yeah i can't imagine anything worse for like an 18 year old kid or whatever yeah exactly that's a quick aside but okay so and i'm thinking

by the way now i'm thinking of other uh sports net personalities like for example carolyn cameron for example who cut her teeth doing cable 10 access shows in the west yep well so uh we actually got kind of we came through the same channel a little bit she went to the fanshaw but she went to the Western Fanshawe program that was split. She, it was two years at Western, two years at Fanshawe. And then, so when I left College of Sports Media, my friend George Poplis had just been hired as, at Sportsnet to do city updates. Back when the City TV News Channel. 15. Was still a thing.

Channel 15. It didn't last very long, I don't think, because it was kind kind of the it was kind of put out there to battle cp24 right yeah well of course because they split city tv and cp24 but they were forced to sell you know there's a whole interesting story there except now you have uh like now you have let me get get it right okay yeah so cp24 is a bell property and out at 299 Queen and then the Rogers people had to go to Young and Dundas and they wanted to try to have their own 24-7 news. So they did

yes, they started this thing up and it did not last long. You were doing hits there? So basically I was finishing up College of Sports Media. I remember sending my demo reel out everywhere like just sending it far and wide. I remember getting an email back from a guy in medicine, had a chat TV. He was a legend out there. I can't remember his name, but it'll come to me eventually. But he was known as

a legendary, a broadcaster and just a really, really, really smart guy out there. And so I was excited because, you know, they phoned me. I can't remember if it was him that phoned me or, you know, someone at the station. It was probably someone at the station that phoned me and and i was pumped because i'm like okay this could be my chance so i basically a month and a half left of school and i remember getting a call and oh we saw your demo reel and you know it's uh we really like it and where are you working right now because i had a few like you know my demo reel had a few you know different things from my old rogers tv days you know current stuff that i i was doing um color commentary for the mississauga majors and hosting

there so i did have some stuff that was out and i said well i i'm just finishing up school right and they were kind of like oh we can't hire you like we we like we need someone with a little so whatever so that was that was that but you don't you don't say, you know who I am? You don't do the whole... No. Because they don't care. No. If they would creak open a door? They would already know. Okay. As long as they know.

That's like the person that gets pulled over, is at a club. That's the catch-22, right? You don't want to... You're doing it on your own and you don't want to have any doors open because of who your dad is. At the same time,

you want to leverage that relationship to open doors. Like it is a catch-22, right? Yeah, and I'm projecting. I don't know my dad, but I don't you know, but if Bob McKenzie was my dad, I'd think it would be like a curse and a blessing simultaneously. Well, and you get a lot of people on Twitter, of course, the only reason you have this is because, you know, but

you don't even bother arguing with those people because as long as I know. But you might have it because of that, but you don't keep it because with those people because as long as I know, but you might, you might have it because of that, but you don't keep it because of that. Well, no, it opens doors like to sit here and tell you that I don't think that my demo reel got watched ahead of people's because of who he is would be ignorant.

That would just be stupid. I, you know, if a demo reel comes across and it's sent for me or even, you know, it's sent out through certain channels that demo reels get sent out and people, I had met a lot of these people that I was sending demo reels to a lot of the bosses at sports net and tsn and all these people know my dad know who i am just from traveling and you know you're at tsn parties you're at sports net events you're at all these so to sit there and think that they

didn't look at and go out of curiosity i'll watch this ahead of other people. So it's opening doors. It's opening doors. You have to be good. Like growing up, I got jobs at TSN cutting highlights. I should say archiving, because cutting highlights is actually a really good job that is hard to get, and it takes a lot of talent writing scripts. But archiving, where you just put tapes in

and you write what happens. Those are the jobs that I could get because of who he was. And they paid all right. They were summer jobs. They were nothing more than, you know, not time fillers because they do serve a very valuable purpose for TSN, but they were jobs that there's a constant flow of people coming through and they weren't exactly high skilled,pressure jobs. Those are the jobs that anyone could probably get with a door open and say, well, we'll hire your kid or we'll do that. I kind of liken it to an NHL son of a famous NHL. He'll get a tryout.

He might get on the East Coast team or he might get a look, but when it comes time for the NHL team who needs a player in the third period, they're not going to put someone out because of who their dad is. It's simple as that. And I don't think TV networks put people on in big spots just because of who someone is. They might look at them. They might think about them more. But you actually have to have the talent and the skill and and everything that comes with that and that's why there's a lot of people on tv that aren't from

any background of media just they're good at it right and in fact in my little head here as i try to think of uh others like where the parent was in sports media and then the child or whatever and the the one that jumps out is the one, the previous guest, Jeff Simmons, who made a decision to like a band, uh, leave the industry completely. So it's, uh,

yeah. And it's cause it's not, it's, it's not something that necessarily gets passed down per se. And I, I don't know that for sure, but it's not like, you know,

it's personality. It's, you know, comfort on TV. It's not something that you just kind of can learn by being around. It's something that you almost, you know, have to have or have to work at. And I don't think that there's so few TV jobs and there's so few, and there's such a pressure for ratings and good quality.

And there's fewer and fewer. I feel like it's shrinking. Oh, it is. It's shrinking faster and faster. Don't remind me. Oh, I got to get you to sports then. I got more questions. But first I have to spit out

this name of this band, okay? Because it was actually going to destroy my head if I didn't remember. 21 Pilots. Yes, that's it. Yes, yeah, yeah. They have like three of the top songs.

Because you know, somebody was listening to us in this episode and was yelling at us like through their... Oh, really? No, I'm just... Somebody was listening to us

like in their car. And they're yelling 21 Pilots at us. How don't these idiots know No, I'm just, somebody was listening to us like in their car. And they're going, how don't these idiots, and they're yelling 21 pilots at us. How don't these idiots know 21 pilots? And it's a good question. Like, and you know, blurry face was a,

was a big deal, but okay. So it was like 21 pilots, imagine dragons, panic at the disco. And like, that was the top, that was the top 10 basically.

Right. It's not like we live in an, when I was, when I was growing up, okay, we, we had like, you would hear in the top 40, you would hear like an R&B song.

Like you might hear, like let's make a band. So let's say you hear a Boyz II Men song. You might hear a rap song. Like maybe there's a MC Hammer or something. But you'll also hear something from like right beside it, you'll hear a Def Leppard song. Okay. You'll hear a Bon Jovi song. You might hear, I don't know, like 91, you might hear like a Pearl Jam song. might hear a i don't know like 91 you might hear like

a pearl jam song but it was really like top 40 meant all genres yeah now it's it's all kind of the same that being said there is there is new stuff coming like i'm trying to think and i'm just so out of touch with well there's new stuff it's just not what i would call like pop popular no mainstream yeah and like the top 10 songs right now are very you know one will be justin bieber Well, there's new stuff. It's just not what I would call like pop, popular. No. Mainstream pop. Yeah, and like the top 10 songs right now are very, one will be Justin Bieber, the next will be like Lizzo. Drake, yeah. Yeah, there is a great variety,

but then there's like Billie Eilish or Billie. Yeah, yeah. It is cool that that stuff, that's different. Like it's not Drake, it's not Bieber, it's not, you know, Imagine Dragons. So it's cool that that stuff is kind of starting to filter through. But my biggest pet peeve is like the older generation who listens to that and it's like all music's crap it sucks now well it's like no you're just old like right and i don't mean that

to be disrespectful but it's like people were saying that about the stuff you were listening to like like when when that old person who's now complaining with the music when you guys were listening to deaf leopard and rocking out, like there was 60 year old people saying, what the hell are these kids? Yeah. I mean, pour some sugar on it.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like don't pour sugar on it. Sugar's bad for you. Here, listen to this Led Zeppelin kid. Yeah.

Like this was wrong. Every generation is, complains about the other generation's taste in music. Cause teenagers need to rebel against their parents in order to become independent human beings. And you followed your dad's footsteps footsteps that's a terrible way to rebel idiot i know i'm dumb but he and like i i give him a lot of credit is like you know he stays up on he's not one of those guys it's like he's the one who will like listen to like shade 45 in the car

and be like you know this rapper and i'll be like yeah i do and he'll be like i like that song and i'll be like pardon like he stays cool and he's And he'll be like, I like that song. And I'll be like, pardon? Like he stays cool and he doesn't put a lot of that out there because he's not necessarily the guy that, but you know, he is very, very.

See, that should be the Bob cast. Honestly, he should. Don't talk hockey. No, he should do like a, like a, like a, just a pop culture.

Like he listens. Well, your dad's former colleague, Dave Hodge. Yeah. I have him on once a year. He's a music genius, isn't he? We only talk music.

In fact, he kicks out, every calendar year he comes over here and kicks out his top 100 songs of the year. I love when he does that, because I see him put out that list, right? Where his best albums, him and Jay Honoret and always go back. Oh yeah, he used to do it there.

Before that he was doing it like a now iWeekly, iWeekly with the late great Dave Bookman. But now he do it there. Before that, he was doing it, like, in now iWeekly, iWeekly with the late, great Dave Bookman. But now he does it here. Like, this is where it happens now. And I bet you that, you know, when you ask him, he has opinions on popular music this day and age, but I bet he respects that it's what people... Well, okay, one thing I'll say about Dave Hodge is

he likes a lot of new music, but it's a very specific style. I would call it alt country might be the best way to describe it. But guys like that understand that just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad. Right. But you do not bump into him at Chance the Rapper show or something? No, and you won't see him there,

and you probably won't have it on his iPod. But at the same time, I'm sure if someone says, I like Chance the Rapper,. No, and you won't see him there and you probably won't have it on his iPod. But at the same time, I'm sure if someone says, I like Chance the Rapper, he's not going to be like, you're a loser. Why aren't you listening to more Tom Petty? Right.

Have you heard of the Arkells? Yeah, exactly. Like, you know. Okay, but you're doing, so now to bring us back, you were doing these hits at the old, the city thing. But how does this tie into,

I know you were at CTV Barry. So that was, but, uh, how does this tie into, I know you were at, uh, CTV Barry. So, so that was, so I went, um, so basically I was at, uh, college of sports media and I was sending my demo reel at everywhere, you know,

sports net TSN, all like, of course the big places you don't ever expect to get into, but you send them out and send it to all the locals, you know, the score, everything. I was,

you know, I would have went out East, out West. You were ready to leave the GTA. Oh yeah. Because you have to like, you know, well, I was you know i would have went out east out west you were ready to leave the gta oh yeah because you have to like you know well i used to think you had to and then i have a lot of people in my basement and a lot of them start here you don't have okay you don't have to but you have to be willing to eric smith never left yeah i think you have to be willing to because if you turn down opportunities out west or out east because you're not willing to move i think you you aren't willing to do what it takes to to really become better and there's stories of people that you know it might just take

a little longer that you know they hold out they hold out but i was willing and so i just wasn't getting any bites you know and just you know just took time and finally i uh got an email from ctv barry saying you know someone's on maternity leave. We are moving. Oh, no. Mark Rowe left. Sorry. It was Mark Rowe. Mark Rowe actually left to go to TSN.

He went from CTV Barry to TSN. They moved Heather Wright, who is now working news in Toronto. Okay. They moved her to the sports anchor position, which left open a reporter position. And so they said, we need someone to fill in for a month because we're going to hire a new sports anchor and eventually we'll just put back where it was.

And do you want to come in? I said, absolutely. So I went in, had my interview, and they said, okay, great. You start tomorrow and just general news. So I went first day. I remember first day we went to Georgian College. I was just shadowing,

but it was going to be my first kind of story. and it was on the rise of chlamydia at local colleges okay here here we go like and uh that was one of the first stories i did and you had to go around and try to get college kids to talk about the rise of you know it rises at colleges and old age homes yes okay but put people together it's gonna happen it's a system it's life i need a palate cleanser now. Play some Twenty One Pilots. Throw a few lasagnas in the table, some Great Lakes Brewery,

and things are going to happen when you put people together. By the way, was it called CTV Berry when you went there? Yes, it was. It had changed. It was A Channel

and then a bunch of the other. Either way, that was great. I did a month of that and just general reporting. This is CKVR. am I getting the right station am I confusing my berries you went CKVR to

or no it was new the new VR forever I remember it as the new VR just the Rapture games used to air on the new VR so I know it went from

new VR to a channel I think sounds right to CTV Berry okay I gotcha I don't know the exact order only I care about these details yeah it was something like that

but I was doing that for a month just doing random like automotive flea markets local and that was cool because it was so far out of my depth I was at like you know

the city hall doing city planning stuff but that stuff makes you so much better because you learn how to write scripts about stuff you have zero idea what you're talking about

you learn how to the chlamydia outbreak at city hall yeah that was actually a fun one to write hey now okay um the uh but then so i remember heather wright didn't show up because she was very very sick i shouldn't say she didn't show up she phoned in sick um and they when i got there in the morning they said well can you do your news shift and can you cover the 6 o'clock sports? And I said, yeah, sure. Like, I would love to.

This is finally what I'm hoping for. So I did a decent job on it, I think. And they said, okay, well, Heather, and like, you know, if she's listening, just, you know, she can tell me this isn't true or not. But I think she probably maybe liked the news more and like, you know, that was her world. And so they said, well well why don't you just start doing the sports so I said perfect like so I took over the sports and what started as a one month thing went to two went to three as they were trying to hire someone new and so I was covering local football I was doing live hits there I was doing the six o'clock and 11 o'clock anchoring

which was such a good break for me because I finally felt like I was doing what I wanted to do and then it came time to hire someone and it came between me and a guy who came from England. And so I'm sitting there going, wow, this would be an amazing job. Like I would love this. I could move to Barrie. I could have a full-time sports broadcasting job finally. Like all these people came through here

and went on to TSN. And so it came down to basically me and this guy and they didn't hire me. So I wasn't necessarily heartbroken because I know i got a lot of experience well no no just kidding just because i got a lot of experience and i knew there was going to be ups and downs of you know i i got i was the second last person to so i was kind of excited but at the same time going here we go again got to go look for jobs at least my demo rails a little bit padded and uh the weirdest part was

i had to train the guy the guy that took my job i had to train him yeah that's but uh so before i had got hired at ctv i had had a meeting with jeff mcdonald at uh sportsnet and he just said i saw your demo reel i like what you did get a little more experience and come back so at the time you're thinking like okay like you know i'm you know that sounds very just go away kid like you know but then i had all this live hit stuff from barry and so i sent just hey updated demo reel here you go and within like two or three days he said hey come on in so i thought okay is this going to be another saw it liked it do a little more for me and i came in and he said do you want to do city hits and george poppolis my good buddy had just gone from doing city hits to anchoring

the main desk at sports net so i'm going better believe i want to so that's how i got into the uh the city hits i did those for three months and then mike english uh um unbelievable guy another guy on the list of who really helped me and just kind of meant a lot to me, called me into his office one day and said, go to least practice and put a report together for me. It's probably not going to run, just go and do that and see if it's any good. So I went down to least practice, did what I thought was a good report, came back, parked, went in, was like, he's like, when do you want? He's like, well, treat it like it's got to go to air. So like, I'm sitting and working with the editors and finally get it done i take it into his office

he's like yeah yeah give me like an hour like you know lots of stuff going on and he watches it and he's like well i think it's great i think that's a report i would air i'm going this i'm so excited i'm pumped i walk out my car got towed in the meantime like it's like it's the happiest i've ever been i went to the tow place like strolling in. You skipped over to, yeah, with a smile on your face.

Here's my 350 bucks. Take my money. That's criminal. Why is this idiot so happy to get his car towed? But then about a week later, he called me and said, do you want to move to Winnipeg

as our Jets reporter? So that's kind of what really set the trajectory for where I'm at now. Okay, how long were you doing the Jets games? So that's another weird one really set the trajectory for where I'm at now. Okay. How long were you doing the Jets games? So that's another weird one. I moved out there. There was lots of contract stuff, all the business stuff, the job that I didn't really know anything about. You know, getting HR to drop the contracts took a month.

And by the time I got there, there was two months left in the season, in the Jets season. So I covered it there. By the way, all along, I'm curious. I'm sure you do chat them up, but your, your, your dad must've been proud that you had this jet ski. Oh yeah.

And he's proud all like, you know, he's more than helpful on like more than helpful would be, would be an understatement. He's a guy that I can just bounce anything off of and can, you know, you're, you're,

you're his boy. Of course. Yeah. And he's been through everything. He's, he's been through everything that I'm going through. He's been through 10 times over. So, you know,'re his boy of course yeah and he's been through everything he's been through everything that i'm going through he's been through 10 times over so you know i can whether it's just a script or whether it's an idea or whether it's a big picture thing of you know should i do this or how should i feel about this he has knowledge you know so when i left you know

didn't get the job in barry you know he's not going oh i don't know what that means for your future he knows like well you don't have this job but you know we'll start applying here you know, he's not going, Oh, I don't know what that means for your future. He knows like, well, you don't have this job, but you know, we'll start applying here. You know, he's been through it all. And think of that Barry job is like American idol. Like you don't want to win it. You want to finish that.

And look in hindsight, like, you know, I, and you'd have to talk to the bosses there. But part of me feels one of the questions in the interview was like, how quickly do you want to be at a big network? Right.

And like, I was honest saying like you know i'm more than happy to do this job but event and so part of me thinks that that's probably they oh yeah they knew you weren't gonna stick around they probably saw it as just a stepping stone and they wanted someone and they got a great guy who was there for years is he still there no he's not still there but i think he was just a victim of the many horrible cutbacks that many people fall victim to i don't think it was anything other. He was a great guy, good broadcaster. Like, I don't think he had anything to do with that.

But, yeah, so went to Winnipeg, was there for two months. I was going to cover CFL in the summer, but we don't have CFL rights. So I remember Mike English phoning me. And this is where I felt like a real broad, like things got really exciting, was he called me and said, hey, the Leafs are playing the Bruins in the playoffs. It was the shortened season. Oh, I remember this.

Do you want to come back and be the second reporter for that series? Rashford Danny was going to do the Leafs side of things. I was going to do the Bruins side of things. Well, that's huge. And I was like, are you kidding? Like, yeah. Like, so they rushed me home. I got home and they said, well, you know,

we're not going to put you up in a hotel and live with your parents. So I was like, I don't care. Like, I. Like, so they rushed me home. I got home and they said, well, you know, we're not going to put you up in a hotel and live with your parents. So I was like, I don't care. Like, I'll live anywhere. Like, so I moved back home after being out in Winnipeg for the summer. Right. So I'm there and so I'm covering Leafs

and life is good. And I remember... Well, you're covering the Bruins. Well... I know you're... Yeah, but you're covering the... You have a lot of eyeballs on you. This is Leaf playoff action.

We're starving. You're at the ACC at the time for Leafs playoffs, and I was probably 22, 23 at the time, like thinking this is the pinnacle of everything, because it was. It was Leafs playoffs. And so that wrapped up, and I remember him phoning me, Mike English,

saying, well, you know, I think you did a good job, so do you want to drive to Detroit? Or do you want to drive to Pittsburgh for the Pittsburgh-Ottawa series? And from there, it was just, I basically covered all the way through different series I was bouncing around, and that was my first real taste of, like, playoff hockey, covering it and kind of the grind of travel. And then I remember going back to Winnipeg.

I was there for one week, and Ian Mendez phoned me and just said, hey, I'm taking a job at TSN radio. I think you'd be good in my role in Ottawa doing the broadcast. And I know, you know, it's a great opportunity and throw your hat in the ring if, if you want it. And I remember phoning my boss and saying, I heard Ian's leaving and I would love that job. And he said, okay, I'll think about it. And two days later he phoned me and said, okay, get to Ottawa. Wow. So it all, like everything happened crazy. about it. And two days later he phoned me and said, okay, get to Ottawa. Wow. So it all, like everything happened crazy. There was no real like big, like there was a lot of big moments,

but it all just kind of was like a whirlwind of craziness. And then I went to Ottawa. We lost the rights there, moved back to Toronto. And that's kind of how I ended up here where I am now. Okay. So a recent guest on this show was Kyle Bukoskis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kyle's a great guy.

And I'm checking out your hair. I've been very careful not to comment on it. I got some flack from a few people who thought I brought up Kyle's hair too often in his episode. Never talk about someone else's hair too often. But you have nice hair. Thank you. Nice thick head of hair.

But it's not quite Bukoskis level. It's very good, though. He's got it very sculpted. But I'm not going to speak any further about your hair because I don't want any nasty emails. Don't let those people dictate. Don't let the bastards grind you down. If you want to talk about hair, you talk about hair.

Can I play with it a little bit? Now we're crossing a line. Maybe those people email you are right. It's a little weird. Yeah, you haven't listened yet. You should listen back in the Kyle episode. I will, I will. How does it work?

I want to know how it works at Sportsnet with you and Kyle. Like, how is it divvied up? Is there like a rule set? Like some kind of a... Because you both do the same job. Yeah. It's not... It's not...

That would be a better question for the bosses. But it's more so... It's not, it's not, that would be a better question for the bosses, but it's more so, it's not something that we don't know. It's, we have roles, right? You know, it's, I know I do the regionals, Leafs regionals, and a lot of the Wednesday national Leafs and some of the Sunday nationals. And he does a Saturday night Leafs. And then I'll do a sprinkling he does a Saturday night Leafs. And then I'll do a sprinkling of hockey night Sens and Habs.

So it's kind of like each year we know that that's what it's going to look like. And then we get the schedule usually at the start of the year for the first couple months and the next couple months. And it always looks something like that. So it's not like we're sitting there with, you know, holding our breath going,

oh, what's it going to be? Like we know exactly what our roles are and that's... Okay, that's a real set, essentially. Okay, gotcha. Now, the funny thing is, because you do the same gig, you probably rarely bump into each other, right? Oh, no, no. We see...

You do? Okay. Yeah, and I've known Kyle for a long time because we both were kind of breaking into sports. He's a few years younger than me. It's amazing how talented he is. 26 years old, that guy. I know, I know.

And it's amazing how talented he is for how young old, that guy. I know. And it's amazing how talented he is for how young he is, which I think in this day and age, it's happening more and more where NHL players are breaking at 19, broadcasters are young. I think it's a young man's world. It's a young woman's world now

where I don't think you have to be a gritty 50-year-old who's cut his teeth everywhere. And I think some people probably want it to be that. And some of the viewers don't maybe trust someone younger. I get that. But when you're as talented as Kyle is,

it doesn't matter how old you are or where you cut your teeth or all that. If you're good, you're good. I'm with you 100%. But there's that other part of the side of the coin that we have to acknowledge here, which is that the 26-year-old will probably command less of a salary

than that 50-year-old. Of course. So that is always thrown in the mix. Oh, and I'm 100% in that category as well. Because you and your... Yeah, anyways, that's... I guess, I mean, I was there too. I mean, some will say I'm still there,

but that's all part of the deal. I guarantee. You pay for experience. In 20 or 30 years me and Kyle are going to be mad about the 23, 24 year old who comes in and is an amazing talent and is making you know hopefully less

than us and then we say oh this guy you know is taking our jobs but that's the circle of life. But you both do. You mean I watch a lot of Leaf I'm one of those guys until playoff time I'm pretty much just watching Leafs to be honest. Like I'm a busy guy. I don't sit down and watch a game. I watch a lot of Leafs. I'm one of those guys until playoff time, I'm pretty much just watching Leafs to be honest. I'm a busy guy.

I don't sit down and watch a game. I watch Leaf games. It's hard to keep track of everything. There's so much hockey. We put so much hockey on which is amazing. My son though, my son who's turning 18 this month.

Oh my goodness, holy smokes. He's turning 18 this month. He watches lots of out of market games. I simply will watch the Leaf game and, and I, I simply like, I will watch the leaf game and then I will, you know, maybe I'll watch some,

something on Netflix with my wife or something. Like I'll do something else. I think that probably makes you the average hockey consumer. Like, you know, you watch your, well, the ratings suggest I'm not alone because those leaf numbers are so,

uh, so especially, uh, significant high stake games, which is part of the problem at Rogers. Okay. So Rogers, I was going to ask you, have things settled down at Hockey Night in Canada there?

Because it was pretty tumultuous there for a bit because we had the, well, the big thing was the Don Cherry firing. Like this is a big, big move. And I think for myself, I'm so far removed from the studio that I can't honestly tell you the last time I was in at one Mount Pleasant or the CBC studios where a lot of the hockey night stuff happens. Right.

I probably haven't been to the CBC studios. Because you're literally rinkside. Yeah, and when I say I haven't been in the CBC studios, the last time I went there was to pick up golf shirts. And that was in the summer. And literally, I walk into the mail courier, I grab my bag of golf shirts for the summer, and I'm gone.

So you can't. Unless it's some playoff game where Don's at rink? Yeah, you know, you run into him at the airport during the cup final or sometimes, you know, like the odd time that, you know, we've had to kind of charter a quick plane to get out because there's no real good flights. You know, you'll be on the flight with Ron and Don, you'll see them at the airports, that type of thing. And as far as, you know, you hear be on the flight with Ron and Don, you'll see them at the airports, that type of thing. And as far as, you know, you hear things about the mood,

like, you know, it's tense or it's, you know, you hear things at the rink of just kind of what's going on, but nothing that I can sit here and tell you, like, I know this or I, it's not really anything I can speak to. But then as a naturally curious person, were you surprised at how big a news this was? Like this really engulfed the country for a while.

No, because as big of a personality as Don was, it's like anyone that's that big of a personality that splits people down the middle so much is like, like for example, like if, if my dad got fired or left, it would be primarily,

it wouldn't be, it would be primarily, it wouldn't be, it would be news, but it wouldn't be crazy news because everyone would go, I really like that guy. Right. It's just, like nobody celebrates your dad.

Well, no one would celebrate or no one would, on the flip side, like it would just kind of be like, oh, you know, we'll miss him and that's that.

Like, and that's, you know, but when you're a huge personality that divides people like Don does, and I don't say divide in a bad way, just that's the way it was. It was you loved Don or you hated him.

And I think there's also a much bigger element to it of the demographic that loved him versus hated him. I think a lot of those people had different thoughts on everything, not just Don. And I think that's what made it so big is that depending on which side you fall on, you also look at that person that you're arguing with on the dawn subject and it's so much more than dawn it's your politics it's your beliefs

it's your lifestyle it's your age it's it's your ethnicity it's so much more than just i don't like don's hockey takes or i don't like what he said what he said about immigrants i think it's so much bigger than just hockey, if that makes sense. And because it was such a massive happening, if you will, in your world, that there was like a ripple effect and a lot of interesting things happened in the ripples.

Like we had a whole controversy over like comments on the social, for example. And then even the Ron McLean, like Ron is an FOTM, he's been on the show and it was a great, great experience. But like a lot of people

kind of, you know, Ron gives a thumbs up, doesn't really challenge Don when he makes the comments in real time and a lot of people want to kind of

throw him in the mix. And I think part of it goes to not necessarily understanding TV as much that I think you feel for, I don't want to say feel for because I don't want to get dragged into this saying as a sympathizer or anything like that,

but I think there's certain moments that only a TV person can understand like that, that Ron is probably sitting there, not necessarily, you got cues in your ear, you got a lot going on that. There was a video to play, so he probably is getting something,

but he has to throw to a video. There's so much going on that you're not really maybe picking up on the nuance of what don's saying or no i get it man and then you throw and then all of a sudden like you sit back and go oh crap well you missed that one you missed that one and then everyone's going how did you miss that you should have and what are you supposed to jump in and start yelling at him like there are moments in the past where Ron's like, Don, I don't know if I get that. So to sit here and say that Ron is just a sympathize.

Like, I think that if he probably heard it and thought that there was something, you know, wrong, there was something wrong with what Don said. But if in the moment, I don't think he would have just gone like, okay,

that's fine. It's a weird, there's a lot. I think I totally do know what you mean, which is that this is a... And you're also going to help me answer the question I've wondered and lots of people have wondered.

It's a hard thing to explain to someone who doesn't sit on and do live TV in that moment because it's a situation that I don't think many people can relate to as in picking up on something that quick, knowing you have cancer, you're knowing there's a lot going on and the break's coming and not knowing where you're at and i can't speak in what ron didn't hear didn't hear but i think in that moment it's a difficult situation for for

anyone to maybe fully understand can you settle once and for all how it works at Hocken in Canada? So the Coach's Corner was recorded. Was it live to air in any market? Because it airs in a few different, for a few different, a few different games have to end. Do you know what I mean? Is it live somewhere and then played on tape for two other games when they reached that point in their broadcast? I wish I could answer this question for you,

but I would answer it wrong because I don't know and I don't even want to dive into speculating. We don't want to speculate. I can't give you an honest answer as to the way things work because more often than not, either I'm at home watching just like you

or I'm in the rink doing a Saturday night game and I'm worried about, you know, my intermission interview and kind of, cause us leaf watchers, we think it's live when it happens, but we don't, you know, if it's airing for us,

if there's a Senator's game on and they ended earlier, their first period, well, they got coaches corner before we did. Like, it's not like they do a different one for each game. I would assume they have to stagger it at certain points, but to tell you the exact logic of how

it works, and I can't sit here and tell it to you. So sorry, the question will remain. Okay, I'm saving that question for FOTM Shirely Najak. He would have the answers for it. Oh, I know. He's going to get those tough ones. Don't worry, don't worry. All right, so things have settled down. Seems like a return to normalcy.

Back to hockey. For us out in the field you know you see the you see the videos of people you know protesting outside rogers and well there's like eight people yeah you know and you hear we still get it on twitter like you know like when david amber tweets here's the cruise for tonight big Big game. You still get people. I'm not watching. Right. Yeah, you are. It's hockey.

Like, okay. I'm with, I hear this too. Like I hear people will tell me on Twitter that, oh, I've canceled my Rogers. I don't give Rogers any money anymore because what they did to Cherry. And all I'm thinking is like, when there is a game seven again,

which we've had like three of the last, how many years? Are you just not, if your passion is hockey, are you just, and that's what i don't get like just watch the game like like if you hate a personality or like sure or you hate what the bosses did sure that's that's your opinion right but it's hockey it's it's it's amazing it's an amazing sport that we love to watch so you're right when it comes game seven bruins leafs this year right for the third year in a row and we have a game seven are you to be sitting there watching?

In Boston, Toronto, you know. Are you going to be sitting there? You're opting out because they fire. But, and also, the other thing I will say, even if you disagree with the firing of Cherry, let's say, surely you have the ability

to understand different perspectives and understand why maybe that was an appropriate action in some people's minds. It's not like it's all about your narrow vision. You think people don't have a narrow vision? I think you're giving too much credit to some people.

People are stupid, Sean? Is that what you're saying? No, I think people just... I don't know if it's the Twitter culture, like the echo chamber that I mentioned, that we live in such a world now where we're on our phones and on Instagram and Twitter where we curate this world of beliefs and opinions

that are what we feel. Like people on Twitter, like if you hate Trump, you're going to follow people that hate Trump. And those people are only going to tweet about hating Trump. And you follow, if you're someone who loves Trump, you're only going to follow people who love Trump.

And so you create this world around you. Sure. Echo Chamber is a good word for it that are it's supporting you so you go into the real world and here's my thought everyone agrees with me and you're shocked when people go you can't say that or like you know that's not i disagree with you so i think people on social media get so lost in this world that they create that they don't realize that there are right and wrong ways to view things. There are people that disagree with you and that you can't just go around and believe in one thing

and think that your opinion is the end all be all. So people that go around and say, well, I think Don was 100% right. I'm never watching hockey again. I'm not even thinking about the other side of the argument. Well, you're missing a huge part. And people that say, Don is 100% wrong. He's a horrible human being.

I'm never like, I, I, I applaud Rogers for what they did. Thank God. And you don't take into account the human side of things. And you know, then you're missing out on something.

There's two sides. Right. And there's also gray area and you got to come up with, you know, I don't know. Basically, my point is saying is you can disagree with someone. You can hate what someone said, but you also have to take into account some other aspects.

And you can't just say, I'm never watching Rogers again because Don's amazing. And what he said was right. And I hate everyone who watches Rogers now. And it's very, I can tell you, it's very difficult to boycott all things Rogers. Like there goes the blue chain. Good luck. Like, you know And it's very, I can tell you, it's very difficult to boycott all things Rogers. Like, there goes the blue chain.

Yeah, good luck. It's a lot of, there's a lot of stuff. My thought throughout the whole thing was is, for every person who says I'm never watching Rogers again, I hope that the decision that Rogers made brings in two new viewers, who might

be a new Canadian, or a woman, or someone of an ethnic background. I hope that every person that says, I'm done with Rogers because of that. I hope there's another person that says, well, I think that decision made me feel welcome. So I'm going to watch hockey. No, well said. I think, you know, we speak here as two white guys, right? But when you, the perspective of a person of color, maybe there's a feeling of exclusion from this national pastime due to a variety of factors,

one of which may be this sentiments expressed by Mr. Chair. Yeah, and I'm not going to sit here and say what, just what Don said was, you know, was horrible and that it was the root cause

of hockey being, you know, exclusive for people. But hockey does have that hockey being, you know, exclusive for people. But hockey does have that mentality where, you know, it's not necessarily, when you look at hockey, when you go to the rinks, when you watch it, it is what it is. And, you know, you see it as a primarily white sport. It's like going to a Tragically Hip concert.

Exactly. And, you know, we want the sport to be more exclusive. Sorry, inclusive. Inclusive, sorry. For the record, Rogers to be more exclusive. Sorry, inclusive. Inclusive, sorry. For the record, Rogers, he said inclusive. Yeah, sorry. We want it to be less exclusive. We want it to be more inclusive.

So I think we have to make sure that, you know, we do things that show that we want people of every background, of every ethnicity, every race, every religion to enjoy hockey and view it for what it is. It's an amazing sport. That's our national pastime. So I don't think we can sit and say, well, you can't watch hockey or just because you don't do this, we don't think you fit the mold. Everyone can enjoy hockey and we want everyone to enjoy hockey. So I hope that as Rogers goes out of their way to make that point, that we gain new viewers for even the

ones that we might've lost that I hope there's more viewers that come in and say well i can appreciate that decision and i can appreciate that we have hockey night in punjabi that we do that the first nations uh broadcast on hometown hockey that we include people so i hope that that brings in in new viewers because hockey is a it is a very it looks a certain way, but I think there's lots of room for it to look a different way. Well said, Mr. McKenzie. I agree. Now, speaking of firings, Don Cherry,

Mike Babcock was fired. Have you heard this news? No. So who's that guy I've been interviewing? That's not Mike. I knew he looked a little different. I thought he just got a haircut. So I'm curious now,

uh, he was fired and then some stories came out about him. And I feel like he's a guy where once he got fired, people, uh, suddenly, uh, like maybe we don't erect the Mike Babcock statue.

Like we planned, or there's, there's been some, uh, stuff that sounds a little, uh, uh, uh,

problematic, like, and how he coached himself. So from your perspective, as someone who covered the mike babcock leafs uh closely what kind of guy was mike babcock when you were dealing with him he was intense and i think that would be the the way i would describe him and i think that would be when you hear the stories that have you know happened the thing with mitch marner i think it was intensity and i think that in his mind he was trying to bring out

intensity I think he was trying to motivate and I think he has an old school style of motivation and I think to say that Mike Babcock is alone in doing stuff like that is ridiculous I think you know to sit here and say that he's the only coach who used psychological warfare or used tricks and little things like that to try to get players going is wrong it was i'm sure it's something that has been rampant like you see you know the the bill peters kicking players and and you know not not to dive even into the the horrible use of racial slurs is a totally different aspect of it but more so the doing things that are physically or mentally abusive to players to try to get them

motivated i think that was something that was probably very well we know it's common back then and i think it's changed so i think much like when i say that hockey can look a different way and should look a different way i think we're seeing now coaches that realize that these young players don't need to be you know know, tricked or kicked literally, which is horrible to say to, to get going. They need to be, and coddle is not the right word, but they need to be treated like human beings. And I think anyone in this world would say that they want a boss that they can respect. They look up to, and that treats them fairly. And back then, maybe that wasn't the case. And i think back then there was a different breed of

hockey player that you could hate your coach the coach could hate you and you could just go at it but there was a certain level of respect like you know i know when sopel was on the spitting chicklets podcast and he told the story about getting kicked by um by mark crawford yeah that it didn't necessarily get picked up at the time as something that was horrible it was a year ago and it was a funny story and because the way he prefaced it was like oh yeah you know he was great to me I loved him he did kick me motive and then but when all this happened it got skewed towards well Sopal and then even Sopal came out and said it wasn't right but we had a lot of respect for each other so I think back then it was more accepted it shouldn't be but it was part of the game where i think now we're seeing with the

departure of guys like babs and guys like that that we're seeing a sheldon keefer come in where it's about putting guys in the lineup because they know their families there or you know playing guys in their hometown or playing guys on milestone games. It's about just treating people like humans. And what's your thoughts on, you just did it. So I'm curious, like reporters calling the people they're covering their nicknames. Like, does that like,

I mean, cause you call them Babs. Like, so I know, and I had this thing with Wilner, with Mike Wilner, who's been on the show many, many times.

I used to give him a little bit of the business about the fact he called John Gibbons, uh, Gibby. And I, it never felt right to me, but he said, well him gibby so is it just everyone calls him babs so i wouldn't in an interview i wouldn't call him babs i would never say like oh well babs you know who what's your starting lineup for tonight but in normal conversation when you talk to him like when i saw him at the ring hey babs or hey like even get like john gibbons one of the best guys ever like and you behave gibby like so when you're talking about him or with

other people you know you would refer to him because this is my thought my thought and i'm probably wrong because i'm often wrong but if he's babs does aren't you going to isn't it like a friendly relationship you have of him where you might be kind to him and you might not report something negative because you're he's a buddy because you're now he's now babs no i don't think i don't think calling someone by their nickname instantly makes you buddies like you know like i think that it's just what they're referred to like it's around their circles and in a casual sense that's what they're they're babs you know it's it's around their circles and in a casual sense that's what their their babs you know it's it's just the way everyone refers to them i don't think necessarily it all of a sudden changes your ability to do a job just by using a nickname it you know there's you know william

melander's willie or like you know it doesn't mean that when he does something bad you're gonna go i can't say anything bad about willie or you know on cadbury there no i can't say anything bad about no it's like it's just the way it's sports. It's sports. You call people by their nicknames. But like I said, I would never in a million years. You know, we need to remind ourselves of this. I think I need to remind myself this too, that this is sports.

Like right now, you know, there's serious world issues, okay? You know, Trump ordered an assassination of an Iranian general. Like we have real stuff going on, you know, maybe sports we need to remember sometimes that it's fun. And that's the biggest thing I always preach when, you know, we talk about which, you know, what a style of broadcast should be, or, you know, when people complain and freak out over different little segments you do in

game or they hate it. It's entertainment. Or when a player does a crazy celebration and people go, well, it's so disrespectful. Well, it's entertainment. These guys are getting... But Don Cherry was a big problem there. I found Don Cherry really... He was so concerned with how you dressed

when you came to the arena. And I was like, with how you dressed when you came to the arena. And, and I always like, Oh, like heaven forbid you don't dress to the nines when you enter the arena. Like it just seemed like we were, we were focusing on the wrong things or how they, the hot dog plays that would piss them off,

which every fan used to love, you know? And that's, and, but at the same time, the thing about Don was that by doing that, he became the entertainment. He thought he was bigger than the show. No, no, no.

Dave Hodge made a comment like that. Well, and I don't want to dive into that. I don't want to, I'm in no position to say that Don was great. Don was awful. Like, you know, Don was a guy that we all grew up watching. And there's a very political aspect to it that i don't want to dive into simply that by don doing that stuff by saying i hate the celebrations and he was part of the entertainment which was good and you watched don because you hated him or you loved him which is my point is that you need those personalities you need

and take the political side of it away and you need the dons of the world you need those personalities. You need, and take the political side of it away, and you need the Dons of the world. You need the, you know, Vander Canes. You need the guys that will say things and do things and be different. You need the PK Subans, or else we'd have a league that- Interesting people.

Interesting people that aren't afraid to speak out, to wear crazy clothes. Yeah, even Ovechkin, right? Like, interesting people. And like, you speak out to wear crazy clothes yeah even a vetchkin right like uh interesting people and like you know to be interested in things that aren't training eating right getting lots of hydration like it's it's and that's what makes the mba so amazing is that like i i tweeted a couple years ago and it went you know viral by my standards is you know it got like 500 000 retweets that's viral by my standards is, you know, it got like 500,000 retweets. That's viral by my standards too. And it was like hundreds and hundreds of comments.

A lot of retweets. The thing was, I said, I would love for the NHL to get rid of the dress code. Right. To make it like the NBA, where anything goes. And so many people said,

we don't want it to be like the NBA. Well, I said, you don't want it to be entertaining. You don't want it to be talked about on every instagram and every blog and every show worldwide like it's like we want hockey to be that band that nobody knows about we want it to be our own little thing or it's not popular it's not big where we want it to look a certain way feel a certain way but you know and we kind of grind like austin matthews is a guy that i think is a new age of nhl player where he talks different than you know the he talks different

than you know patrick marlowe and you know not to say that's wrong because those two are actually really good friends but he wears clothes that most people don't know about he wears he shops at stores that most people can't afford and most hockey fans have no idea how to pronounce, which is great for the game. But I also think when he does stuff like that and he wears different stuff, there's pushback. Why are you doing that? Why do you look that way?

When PK Seymour wears the crazy hats, we'll focus on the game. We need guys that might focus on other things in order to make it entertaining. It's like wrestling. You need good guys. You need bad guys. You need villains.

You need entertainment. You need personalities. You need personalities. You need personalities. I'm with you. People get so offended if someone is interested in something other than being the best hockey player possible,

which they are. Like, just because I like golf and wine doesn't mean I'm not working on my broadcasting. It doesn't mean I'm not paying attention to tomorrow night's game I got to do. But for some reason in hockey, when anybody does anything that is different than the cliche get pucks in deep got to train in the offseason it's just people get insulted I don't get it it's we

want entertainment and we we push against it when it becomes too much you're damn right especially on the the celebration stuff and I'm thinking now of those jerks, the famous statement by Cherry on the hurricanes. But again, and I go back to him being part of the entertainment and whether he meant to or not, it doesn't matter because you had the Carolina Hurricanes who were rallying people around who were doing this thing. You had Don who hated it. And you had Don who talked about it a lot. And he laughed about it and that is what the entertainment is because you know

what you want to tune in because you see what the carolina hurricanes do and then you want to see what don has to say about it and that's what made don don is that he was can't miss tv as whether you hated him or whether you loved him, you tuned in. It's like, it's the Howard Stern effect. It's Stephen, Stephen A. Smith.

Like, I don't care if you love or hate Stephen A. Smith, you're watching them because if you hate him so much and you expend so much energy talking about hating him, tweeting at him, watching his show to get angry about it, he's,

he's got you, he's trapped you. The danger of course is the legion of fans who, yeah, they love Cherry, but they follow Cherry and they follow, like basically what Cherry thinks, that becomes their opinion.

That goes to my point before, and I don't know if I did a great job of explaining it, but you have to take something in and understand what it is and not be blindly loyal to something. But again, this goes back to your joke you made about giving people too much credit. I feel like, I just feel like what you're describing there is exactly right.

And I feel like there's far too many people who aren't doing that. No, who, I think there's people who look at somebody and go, well, I agree with 100% what he said. So anyone who disagrees with me or anyone who tries to make a counterpoint is wrong. Right. I hate them. And I'm going to get mad and angry. Like, I don't know how many times,

like we should just like, if I have a disagreement with someone, I'll listen and go, okay, I don't know if I agree with that, but I understand your side of the point. You can understand someone's argument while still disagreeing with them. But I think a lot of people

don't even want to hear the other side. Oh man, now Sean, you've been amazing, man. That's two hours. So this is two quick hits to close up here because I don't want to forget. Hebsey this morning was talking about your work as a ringside reporter. And he wants to know,

when a player says, at the end of your little interview, which is those tough little things of a player on the ringside, when a player says at the end of your little interview which is you know those tough little little little things of a player on the ring side uh when a player says thanks sean versus just the generic thanks like does that make you do you feel good that they call you like you know you're sean and it's kind of like and it's funny how many people notice that it's not something i ever thought was something, but like, you'll get a thank Sean and then you'll get a couple of texts from people

like, Oh, like, Hey, you know, like, you know that guy or like, you know,

like, Hey, like you must like your friends, like, or it's not even friends of them, but like, Oh, he must like good.

It seems like a good guy where I think it's something that is awesome to get. It's not something you ever expect. Cause there's a lot of interviews I've done with people that I know really well, who I'm very familiar with who if i'm see outside of the rink i can chat with and be friends with and they don't say it it's just not and then there's some guys that are hardwired or trained to say well thank you and then media training yeah and those ones you're like okay well he says it to everyone but there's certain ones where like you know thanks sean like

you're like oh thanks thanks man like again it is it's a little sign it's a little sign of respect and it's something i guess that it just means a little bit uh a little bit more than just a thanks but there's like i said there's guys that are great guys that just skate away sometimes in those bench side interviews and you don't take it personally when they don't say it do you ever wish you could get one of those viral things like Boo Koskis got with Marchand, for example, Brad Marchand? Like there's like sometimes they go a little sideways, these quick chats, and then suddenly everyone's sharing the clips.

Do you wish one of yours would go sideways like that? It depends on what it's for, right? You need a Molly Johnson episode is what you need and you can never yeah you can't plan for one of those and you know sometimes they go viral for the wrong reason sometimes it's you know and that's a fine line is like you know like oh yeah they have that's right you have but even like okay uh who's the damn uh flyers uh who's the flyers uh mascot again gritty gritty like even the gr. See, that one's awesome because it's planned and it's thought through and

you have an idea. I'm sure Kyle did and him and Shirely probably had an idea of how they wanted it and then it goes probably even better. Because we all have ideas and we all go, okay, well, how's it going to look? Or will it play on TV? And you never really

know until you try it. And that one was awesome. And it was well thought out by Kyle. It was well executed. And then Gritty played his part to perfection. Oh, Gritty's the best. Those are the moments that you love. All right, final question goes to LaRue.

Sean, what are your, well, it's a big one, so I'm going to simplify it. He wants some of your goals, but really, he says, where do you see yourself 30 years from now? Hosting Hockey Night in Canada. No, I would never make big goals like that. Too big? Well, it's just too specific.

What is Hockey Night in Canada in 30 years? Oh, yeah, 30 years. That's a good point. What is hockey broadcasting in 30 years? I just want to be able to do this for as long as I can at a high level, as well as I can, and I want to try to be different and bring kind of a unique, different approach to it.

And I look at a guy like Scott Oak who's been able to do that for however long he's been doing it. And I look at someone like him and go, well, I would love to be in his position and just still loving it, still doing it and still passionate about it. I lied. I have another. I forgot. I took a note on this. Your dad. So yesterday was the anniversary of Doug Gilmore trade. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And your dad. I saw him tweeting. Yeah. Your dad was tweeting about you guys were going to Banff or something. Yeah. So I saw that and I laughed because I'm like

I would remember missing out on a Banff trip because like that's something that I'd still complain about to this day. But then he prefaced it with the next tweet saying I wasn't there. It was actually my brother and my cousin. I was probably at home being a sock on Christmas. Okay. I didn't see the follow up tweet. saying, I wasn't there. It was actually my brother and my cousin. I was probably at home being a sock on Christmas. Okay, I didn't see the follow-up tweet. I wasn't there for that one.

Sean, thanks for doing this, man. No, thanks for having me on. It's been awesome. That was fantastic. And that brings us to the end of our 566th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Sean, tell people how they can follow you on Twitter.

Sean McKenzie SN. Sean McKenzie SN. Sean McKenzie SN. That's my plug. I have nothing else to plug for you. Sean McKenzie 89 on Instagram. I don't post a lot, but I'm going to try to in the new year. I'll fail, but I'm going to sit here and tell you that I will. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer.

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Cause everything is Duncan Fremlin here. You know me as Banjo Dunk. And on April 16, 2020, I'll be bringing you I'm sure that there's a sucker born every day And on April 16th, 2020, I'll be bringing you... This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls.

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