Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Simon Law from Soul II Soul: Toronto Mike'd #1277

Episode Date: June 21, 2023

In this 1277th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Simon Law, founding member of Soul II Soul, about the project, writing Back to Life (However Do You Want Me), his move to Toronto and so much more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, the Yes We Are Open podcast from Moneris, The Moment Lab, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

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PR, advertising and production. You need the Moment Lab and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto Mike debut is a founding member of Soul2Soul, Simon Law. Welcome, Simon. Hey, nice to be here. Thanks for inviting me, Mike. What a beautiful day. We were just chatting before we began, but this is like the perfect Toronto day. It's unbelievable out there.

Yes, it is. It's like about as hot as it gets in England. Oh, I thought I recognized an accent here. I mean, I don't know where to begin with you, but firstly, I want to just shout out Blair Packham because Blair introduced me to you and he was here on Friday kicking out the jams. But hello, Blair Packham. Yo, Blair. How do you know Blair? In 2004, my ex knew a guy called Dave McKenzie, who is a well-known comedian and writer, and he knew Blair. And so I met Blair, and I ended up having a studio in the same area as him on adelaide street for a while and uh our kids went to the same primary school we live in the east end there by in riverdale right and um yeah so bp and i got along very well a couple of musos yeah well you know one day i think we were just chatting like legit i can't remember i think the song back to life came

up just like organically and he said you know that song was co-written by a guy who lives in toronto and i had trouble like okay but it's a british band so like what's he doing in toronto so what the heck brought you simon law to toronto um i'm gonna throw that question back. What do you think brought love? It's love. Yes. Yes. Rod, you know, okay. Roger Christian lives in Mimico and, uh, he's a British gentleman.

He's the guy who designed like R2D2 and the lightsabers. And he did all this work on the original, uh, Star Wars, like amazing story actually. And I say, I like, what are you doing here in my backyard? Like, and he's like, yeah, you doing here in my backyard? Like, and he's like, yeah, you fell in love with a Canadian. So you fell in love with a Canadian?

Yeah. I met Tina, Tina Platt in Toronto. Sadly, we're no longer together, but we, we have three beautiful kids and we moved here in 2004 when they were 10, five,

10, seven and five. And that was a big, huge move. I was kind of ready to look for pastures new. Things had shifted for me a little bit with production partners and stuff in England. And I'd already come to Toronto a few times,

visited and loved the vibe. And so, yeah, I wound up here and now I call this place home. You still love the vibe? Yeah, I do. Do you come off the rose or are you still digging this place? No, I love Canada. I love Toronto.

I've also fallen in love with Montreal very much too. And I go to Montreal a lot. My partner, Jen, we have a band called Jen Schaefer and the Shiners. She's a Montrealer and we go back there often. And so I feel like I I have I really say to people I got two I'm a lucky guy I've got two hometowns that I feel very much at home at and it's Toronto and London and maybe a third is creeping up now yeah I will say I've uh been in Montreal quite a bit lately because my daughter goes to school there what a city like and it's uh yeah you walk

at least downtown Toronto and it's you know I see what why people like and it's uh yeah you walk at least downtown toronto and it's you know i see what why people dig this place absolutely but yeah my my heart my life it's still here but yours was in so london this is uh like give me the origin story i'm dying to know the soul to soul origin story like like tell me like who was sim Law when Soul to Soul forms? And tell me what you can about the formation of that outfit, that band. Collective. That collective, right? The consortium.

Be an asset to the collective, as Jazzy B would say. It says in his rap there. You know, well, I was studying to be a teacher. I went to college in 1980 um in london and uh started going clubbing and and loved black music loved the scene there was a rare groove scene that was very strong in london at that time it was playing all kind of 70s funk and so late 60s 70s funk so a lot of reggae as well, a lot of roots reggae, conscious reggae, jashaka, sound system, an incredible place, London.

Well, it still is, but it was very vibrant, and there was a sort of a pushback against the Thatcher years during the 80s, and so the underground culture was very, very strong, and I think sort of identified itself in opposition to that and um that very attracted me very much so joe my sister joe and i we we put out a um we had a band and i say to people we played all the toilets of london really got nowhere fast and then we made but but this there was this burgeoning sort of dance music scene happening and people were making their own cutting their own records and 12 inches so we did that and immediately we got signed to chrysalis records uh as and our band was called

city heat and um and that i we would take these 12 inches round to djs in all the clubs and the best club in in the whole of london at that time was the africa center soul to souls club and they were legends already in london in in the sort of um rave scene really they had that there were sound system first and foremost which is that extraordinary kind of culture that is a Jamaican thing. You know, a collective of people will have all the equipment

to set up a big sound system and a big party wherever. Right. And very good at running that stuff and some of these systems would blow your socks off. And, you know, the Africa Center was the place to be in London. That was right in Covent Garden, right in the heart of the city.

And Joe and I were regulars there and really going just to dig the music and dance. You know, as Jazzy would say say i don't know if i can use you can language yeah but jazzy's uh i think he still says this on on the odd occasion if you're not dancing fuck off you know and and basically the place was just rammed a sweat box rammed with people dancing their asses off and um and the vibes were very strong and back then it was like rare groove early rap early house uh funk soul jazz funk all in a beautiful mix you know and the odd pop tune that was sort of resonated within that too so i remember people used to drop um uh oh the uh the tears for fears tune everyone

wants to rule the world that would sort of yeah that would they'd put that in amongst all this real heavy sort of funk and soul and it just it was brilliant you know a lot of stuff got mixed together and that and that's how and then i got to meet jazzy obviously he heard our tune and was playing it in the club and asked me to come down and collaborate. And from the first single that came out for Soul to Soul was a thing called Fair Play, which was great. In fact, I was there when he dropped that tune, announced this is our own tune.

We've made our own tune. And it was a funny moment because nobody danced to begin with. Interesting. Oh, wow. And then slowly the groove just… Well, they had to process it, right? Yeah, it was a pretty fresh sound. And it was that sort of amalgamation of hip-hop beats and vibe with soul music.

What year are we talking here, Simon? This is 87, 88 type time. hip-hop beats and vibe with soul music. What year are we talking here, Simon? This is 87, 88 type time. Okay. And then from then on, you know, with Keep On Moving, Back To Life, all that stuff, I was involved from then on, you know, and very heavily involved. Okay, so let me, because I do want to put a bit of music in the mix here, some older, some newer, but this sounds like a good time.

I feel like let's kick out a soul to soul song here and then we'll discuss more detail about what you did with the band, how you know the band. Let's kick this one. Keep on

moving. Don't stop like the hands of time Quick, go find your own way to stay The time will come one day Why do people choose to live their lives This way Karen, Karen, Karen Love you, Karen Keep on moving

Keep on moving Keep on moving I love you talking over the jam actually this could be like pop up video except the audio version here but talk to me I'm filled with love and adoration and gratitude to all of the people in soul to soul but particularly karen listen to that singing yeah just sublime sweetheart Just sublime. Sweetheart.

Dear, dear. Dear woman. Hmm. Ah, the strings. When was the last time you heard this jam in the headphones? Not for a while. Sounds good. I like it.

It's not a bad tune. How does this song change things? So to get to specifics here, and we have a couple more Soul to Soul songs before we move on from Soul to Soul, but what an important collective, and you're there so like like you didn't co-write this song though keep on moving well i i i did actually but um it's not uh it's it's not it's not uh there's some yeah there's some sort of funny stuff there

but we we we won't worry about that let's not get into that yeah yeah so okay so okay so tell me about uh so karen the vocalist like uh just share with me break down the collective like like who's contributing what to this particular song yeah so with this song um karen wheeler is the vocalist and doing all the backgrounds very famous at already within the the background singing scene. She sang backgrounds for everybody at this time. Elvis Costello, Annie Lennox. Many, many people.

Aphrodisiac was her lover's rock group that she was in. And then Claudia Fontaine and her went on to do backgrounds for Howard Jones. They toured all over the place. And Jazzy heard about her, and she hadn't, you know, only within Lover's Rock scene had she done lead vocals, but fell in love with her voice. And I think everybody did once they heard this, you know.

Yeah, no doubt. And what was the reception like? I mean, this is a this song this went this song went first of all it it it went ballistic in london and and then england and then it just went ballistic in america and the world it was like a massive tidal wave of i mean we we were astonished. You know, we kind of knew that things would go quite well in London because there was a, Soul Soul had a vibe there that was very strong.

But it just seemed to connect the zeitgeist and all that stuff. I can tell you just via Wikipedia, I can tell you of great authority that the U.S. dance club song chart from billboard uh this went to number one yeah i i was never in new york at that time or in america at that time but i i heard and many people musicians since americans that i've talked to and know and worked with said it it was bonkers suddenly there was this tune which had come out of nowhere and it was British. And it's like, what the fuck? This just changed everything for people.

Now, this is not the only song featuring Karen. No, no, no. No, there's another one which... You know, I'm going to let... I don't feel like truncating, keep on moving here. What do you remember about putting this song together? Well, an interesting thing is it was all, most of the recording was done at Pink Floyd's studio, which is Britannia Row. And a beautiful studio in Islington in North London. And they had a beautiful grand piano there.

And I suggested that we had some, you know, fake, not fake piano, but just electronic piano on the track as a guide. And I just said, let me do live piano on this. I just really, I really hear it. piano on this i just really i really hear it and and i think that's gave the track a certain kind of extra soulfulness um or so connection with people you know and then we were struggling for a baseline and then suddenly i don't know something just hit me and i i that baseline although it's a different sort of tempo is very much a kind of bootsotsy Collins kind of rhythm type thing going against the pattern of the drums. And and then the strings were were a combination of the reggae philharmonic orchestra players, Michael Riley.

There's a wonderful documentary, by the way, folks, if you can track it down from classic albums about the making of this and um he's on there i'm on there a bunch of people are on there talking yeah nice nice okay without further ado we have another jam to kick out here i don't know this one this is a chance of time okay this is a jam ladies and gentlemen Lost the time Listen to her voice She's one of those singers who

Connects with you. Wow. Come on. This song's over 30 years old now, and it sounds fresh in the headphones, I'm telling you. Yeah. A lot of people have said that to me. We got the funk. We were at this point, because Keep On Moving had gone bonkers,

we were all very full of ourselves and very confident. And you can feel that in Karen's's voice in the production in everything you know um i don't even know why like what genre bucket people would try to stick this into right because it's uh it's jazzy it's definitely r&b but it's uh yeah yeah it's a it's a hybrid yeah it kind of gone out of style a little bit, the phrase dance music. But dance music was the umbrella term we used back then for house, hip-hop, R&B, you know, disco. And, yeah, it's dance music, man. It's dance music.

It's also a parentheses jam, and that listeners of this program Know we'll kick out our favourite Parentheses jams because this song is called Back to Life but you've got however do you want me In parentheses Just in case Yeah well

It's Much to the chagrin Of many UK Album Purchases This version which was a remix Much to the chagrin of many UK album purchasers, this version, which was a remix for the single, is not the version on the album. There's an a cappella version. And we, Karen, had the absolute brainwave of rewriting the verses,

which then uses the phrase back to life. Right. It's a very strange, the phrase back to life does not exist on the album version. That's fascinating. With the acapella, yeah. I haven't been this,

I will tell you, I told this story recently on Toronto Mic, but I was a big Duran Duran fan in the early 80s. Oh, I remixed them, man. Okay, what did you remix from Duran Duran fan in the early 80s. Oh, I remixed them, man. Okay, what did you remix from Duran Duran? Come Undone. Oh, I love that song. Yeah.

That's a big, yeah, okay. Yeah. We got a big ass budget, and I put a whole bunch of strings on it. Okay, okay. Wow, okay. So they put out, I've got to get my titles wrong,

Seven and the Ragged Tiger came out, and the version that I wanted of Reflex wasn't on the album, and I still remember it, because Niles Rodger remixed the Reflex. Yeah, yeah. But you had to buy the single to get that Niles version. The album came with the album version, which once you heard the remix...

Well, it was a little bit of that early period of remixing, right? Where sometimes a remix would go beyond the original version. This was the early days of that happening. It's kind of off in the way now.

But now it's streaming. It's almost like, what does it matter? It doesn't matter now. No one picks up a physical album anymore. Exactly. You can find whatever you want.

Who do I have this conversation often with? Like young, I have young people in my family because my oldest kids are 21 and almost 19. And it's like, they, they never hear any songs that they didn't purposefully seek out. Like basically it's like, it's such a different mentality where,

you know, you and I, it's like the radio sort of chose what we heard. And then you might like this song, you might might not like this song but after hearing it a hundred times you might end up like liking it like stockholm syndrome or something like that and then there might be the song you never knew you liked and then you loved it and then you went and got the album at sam's or whatever but it's just such a different way to uh to listen to music in 2023 versus when we're grown up but you you do, unlike the last jam we played,

you are now a listed songwriter on Back to Life, However Do You Want Me, Simon Law. Yeah, this was very much a song which I remember, I wanted to give a, whenever I have the opportunity, I like to remember my dear, dear friend, Ross Anderson, who passed away. But at that point, i was working out of his studio which was in um soho in in in london and on kingly street in the base kingly street basement

studio ross anderson love you and miss you terribly man um but i remember the day when jazzy came down and we started messing around with back to life and uh he had his book of notes of lyrics and there was back to life in there and however do you want me and we put together a beat and i had some chords and uh and it started there and then we you know then nelly hooper and him who were were the producers for that first record right you know um we did we did in the end we sort of stripped away all all the music and we we just left with the acapella and that's what went on the album and then when keep on moving went nuts there had to be a follow-up single and there wasn't anything that really stood out from the album as a singly kind of thing except that at that stage everybody and you still

you'll still hear djs play this these this two song whammy you know you'll hear the acapella version of um of however do you want me back to life however do you want from the album which is which is which is not the song back to life that you that everyone very much knows but it's beautiful acapella it does have no karen wheeler on that version pretty much knows, but it's a beautiful acapella. So no Karen Wheeler on that version? No, no, it's all Karen Wheeler. Oh, it's okay, sorry. That is Karen.

Right, okay, sorry. It's just the story of the song's evolution. So you've got this beautiful acapella, all Karen doing her crazy background arrangements that she was just a master of. her crazy background arrangements that she was just a master of. And, but the actual lyric, Back to Life, is not in there. It's all about, I'm steady, are you ready?

What's going down? Cold, fresh air, feel the melody that's in the air. It's gorgeous, you know, and it's, and you, in a club, if it's all been heavy music and then suddenly you get this angelic acapella, goes on for about three minutes, and then Jazzy's groove kicks in at the end, where he, you know, that, that, those two songs are beautiful, and hats off to Jazzy and Nelly for, for putting that together, but every, you know, at that stage, that was a very big tune in the club. So those two songs going together, you heard that everywhere.

People were rocking that all the time. So I guess they just thought, right, we'll make a single out of this somehow. And then Karen came down and rewrote the lyrics. Rewrote the verse. Forget, obviously, when it comes to the hot dance club play or whatever chart Billboard had,

it goes number one or whatever. But it's worth pointing out that this song was a hit on the actual Billboard Hot 100, right? So this went to number four. Yes. Yeah, we won a Grammy for this song. You didn't have to share that Grammy, right?

You've got your own Grammy. I don't actually have a statue-y thing. I think I can get one at some point. But they're going to make you pay for it, right? Yeah, yeah. But Jazzy's got one in some point. But they're going to make you pay for it, right? Yeah, yeah. But Jazzy's got one in his somewhere. Can I read a quote from Jazzy? Okay, Jazzy B, I'm going to read a quote.

This is about that song we just heard, which I just think is one of the great songs of modern times here. But this is what Jazzy said about Back to Life. Everything about this single was magic. We weren't trying to follow any trend or fit into any category. We were just doing our own thing. Its shuffling beats were a cross between reggae and what was to become known as hip-hop, breakbeats and electronic sound. Karen Wheeler's voice coming over those very heavy bass beats was the icing on the cake. We also had the reggae philharmonic orchestra on the track

and the RPO became a key part of our sound. We often look to America for our influences, but this was a moment that put British music back on the map. It also came out at a special time in the industry's history, just before digital took over and everything seemed to fall apart. What say you about those Jazzy B comments about Back to Life? I think that's well put, except that hip-hop was already, I debate there Jazzy's point

of what was later to be called hip-hop. This is 1989, okay? I've got 12 inches on this table older than that. They're definitely hip hops. We were all, I remember at that time, one of the, one of the massive influences on everybody was public enemy, you know, and you heard their music everywhere. And whenever you,

you heard their music come on, it just obliterated everything else. They just, their sound and their message and everything was so strong. Oh, you're, you know, Chuck D,

by the way, I should tell you, Simon, you're now an FOTM, Friend of Toronto Mic'd, joining a great club that includes Chuck D, who also sat down with me in 2019, I believe, just after the Raptors won the championship and before the pandemic screwed everything up.

Oh, man. Oh, respect to Chuck D. I love that guy. I love, you know, i wish i heard more um well there is still wonderful conscious rap music being made it's just less mainstream you know uh yeah kendrick lamar seemed to pick up that uh mantle for a few years of how to pimp a butterfly etc but uh i do also miss the like the politically conscious social conscious raps that i kind of loved in the late 80s, early 90s. Now it's a bit more like, more popular would be like a mumbly rap

about getting high and drinking codeine or whatever. It's a little different. Well, there are some wonderful rap artists out there doing great stuff. But, you know, in fact, it's the same for uh for for all music now you you know you you're in this huge pile and uh how do you stick out you know it's really um it's really it's very very tricky and very demanding i mean people are getting very inventive though you know i think it's kind of healthy in the end but it's like most things in on planet earth it's survival of

the fittest you know well what happens in movies these days is they take like existing ip like intellectual property and they they remix it or reboot it so that's why you get so many sequels and so many reboots and it's like oh this ip exists already in the universe and we've proven that since so it's less of a risk and that's the big thing in movies which by the way i suck because i like the the the independent new uh new movies but whatever you know this is the way of the world today and it for music it's kind of similar like i i think the next big single you hear is going to be some kind of a reworking of uh back to life however do you want me right like just interloping that i hear elton john on the charts and i hear rocket man interloped

in there and stuff and it's like okay like you know simon law can have another uh billboard hot 100 hit it's just gonna be the same one he had in 89 well i'm working hard to to do something different but uh well we're gonna get to what you're up to these days but um but that's that's the thing which really interests me is always moving forward and always, you know, creating new, you know, music is, I think, with all art, it's always about fusion and interesting concoctions, interesting kind of fusions of different influences, different sensibilities. And Jazzy's totally right there in that description. You know, we were all seriously into reggae as well. You couldn't really not be in London at that time. And, you know, I've ended up working, doing a lot of work with reggae artists and being

in Jamaica. And I actually grew up until I was seven years old in Trinidad. So I sort of have a real affiliation with the Caribbean. And, you know, it just all felt very, very beautiful and natural to me. I did open up to questions. We're going to hear later in this chat, I have a great fellow keyboardist from a great Burlington band from the 1980s

sent in a great note about you. I'm going to read it to you in its entirety. But first, I'm going to find the question about Belly because it kind of relates here. Oh, T-Daw Residence wants to know, what is your favorite use of your music in movies or television he points out that the intro scene in the movie belly which features the song we just heard is pretty crazy well i that's

i really appreciate hearing that i gotta go and watch that movie now so you've never seen i don't think i've oh 1998's belly it's a your uh your homework here uh yeah it's it's it's belly. It's your homework here. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it's your homework. Method Man, DMX. Oh, okay, yeah. I mean, it's extraordinary. We still get probably averaging out about one request every two weeks for Back to Life to be used in something or other. Because it puts you in a time.

I find it in a time. I find it's a shortcut. If you're making a television show and you want to set it, for example, in, I don't know, 89 or 90 or whatever, the fastest way to do it is to kick out a big jam from the period, right? And that's become a very, you know, very tried and tested way in TV shows.

We've got this extraordinary... So is that lucrative for you? Yeah, yeah. It keeps me going, man. You know, I remember when I got... I've got this extraordinary so is that lucrative for you yeah yeah it keeps me going man i'll just see you know i remember when i got uh i gotta tell you this story because when i when we got our um ivan novello awards which was for the best song of the year i think 89 in england one of the keynote speakers was ray davis of the k. Yes. And the great Ray Davis and the great Kinks, but he got up on stage and said, actually, I think it was a PRS, which is the equivalent of

Sokan Awards, something like that. And he, he, he got up there to say, you know, I love this organization because without you, I would have starved to death or I would have just, you know, because without you, I would have starved to death or I would have just, you know, like occasionally a check comes through with some royalties that saves your bacon. Oh, yeah. And, you know, it's not a steady, music making and music creation

and that career is not a steady thing. It's not a secure thing at all. And so the royalties from things that you've done in the past really do much, you know, it's good and it's proper, but it really saves you bacon, yeah. I once read an article about the guy who wrote Spirit in the Sky. Oh. Greenbaum? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Norman Greenbaum.

Yes, that's right. So in the article was essentially that 100 of his the money that he lives on comes from that one song one song so and he was quite quick you know he doesn't he doesn't have caviar tastes or whatever but he he lives his life based on i don't know checks that drop in his mailbox from writing spirit in the sky yeah well that's that is a solid gold stone cold classic but um you know like i i uh i i've lucky lucky enough to have had a few more not none as big as back to life but some some ones that still bring in some some good royalties but but it's like yeah it's a very important thing and i'm glad that it's still not i i think it's important to mention the whole

streaming world nowadays and and how that works out for for writers how does like that must like tell me like well it's still it's still not really a a just situation you know the writers of the music are still not rewarded properly but it has been uh the the um what we receive the percentage we receive is is is better than it was something got decided last year in the states and then i think most territories have followed that now but um yeah i'm not a i'm not i hope this is okay but i i'm not gonna i'm not a massive fan of um spotify uh you know I encourage people to use Apple Music, not because it's anything incredibly better, but because Spotify have led this

charge, which is really, you know, and they just, they just, they don't even, they don't make a fucking profit. It's just trade, it's like, it's like some airy-fairy concept, you know, and we're all just following along with it.

I think it's still a very fluid situation, and I hope it becomes more just for the creators. Well, if you step back, and again, I've never written a song. Well, I have, but you haven't heard these songs I've written. I've got to hear that, Mike. Come on, man. I've got some good raps from the late 80s I can drop on you. But if you step back and say okay so the

model is that you pay oh i make up round numbers i don't know where we're at now i don't actually subscribe to spotify but you pay it's 10 bucks a month and you get every song recorded in the history of the universe uh unlimited for that 10 a month that never really it sounds too like it sounds like it's bonkers isn't't it? It's bonkers. Like, okay. Cause, cause again, I'm a, I'm Gen X. Okay. My life was going to Sam the Record Man downtown or HMV or A&A.

And I was willing to part with approximately $17.99 for the CD, even if it had two songs I wanted on it. Okay. And this was just the model and I lived with it but at least that's a physical piece of medium for then of course I know I've talked to enough musicians to learn how the the label takes their by the time the artist you still get screwed but not

like you're getting screwed now you know less there than you are now yes and if you if you sort of read some of the what are they called you know the journals and stuff to me all the music magazines about in business there is insane amounts of money sloshing around in music now um you know there there's a lot of people seeing the investment uh

value there and a lot of money coming into music and you know so much of that again it's sort of going back into the pockets of the the corporations and not enough is coming back to the actual creators without which they would have no business at all so you know like I just think that things have that's why so many and I really welcome all these wonderful different approaches you know particularly younger artists are doing now they're just they're just going right

we don't need you at all we're just going to do it ourselves you know I love that why was Karen Wheeler never just like a member of Soul to Soul? She's a key part of those two massive hits we've already heard on this program, but she's always like featuring Karen. Yes, I think, I still don't know to this day exactly the story behind that,

but it was always this sound system kind of concept. The collective? this sort of sound system kind of concept. The collective? Yeah, the collective. And Jazzy was very much the centerpiece and the heart of that. And as more albums got made, many, many people got featured.

And as in a lot of bands, there were creative differences and issues that come up. And Karen also was an incredible powerhouse creatively and wanted to do her own thing, you know. And she made two great records, which I was involved in. And, you know, so, yeah. And then it was wonderful that when she came back and got involved in, I think it was called Believe, that album five, you know, and we wrote a tune called, there's a few tunes of hers and her and I wrote together on Believe. There's a lovely track, if you can track it down, folks, called Sunday. That's a really sweet, beautiful song.

But Love Enough, which was a, you know, a good hit in england that was a good tune in the end cat um penny ford did the lead vocal of that but um karen wrote it and um yeah so yeah so you don't have your grammy i'm shocked that you can write co-write a song that can win a grammy but they don't actually give you one. I'm disappointed. I was going to ask you where your Grammy's at. Well, also this tune won a Grammy too. This is my segway, Simon. This is my segway. It's not the only Grammy you've won.

Let's listen to a little bit of African dance. any thought to put karen on this like hey let's get a hook for karen to sing and uh uh no i don't think there was at this point we were just you know it shows the sort of um the vibe that was happening it's's like, it was just like, this feels good like it is. There were two versions of this on the album. There's one with Jazzy doing a rap and a kind of bit of singing. And then the flute player,

whose name escapes me now, just, this just sounded heavenly to us still sounds beautiful to me in the cans now I could dance my I could lose myself to this tune no problem it just rolls along in this beautiful kind of lope

and it's the keyboards are kind of you know like I'm doing a kind of house piano almost on top of this. It's like a slow house groove, but a lot of percussion instruments. Is the name Kushite? Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the flautist. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're on keyboards here.

Yes, yeah. And you co-wrote this. Yeah, I co-wrote this bass line and keys as me. And you co-wrote this song. Yeah, I co-wrote this bass line and keys as me. Not very much bass guitar on this album. There is on Fair Play. And incidentally, that is... What's the guy's name?

Bass player from Brand New Heavies. Andrew Levy plays the bass guitar on Fair Play. But I think all the rest of the tunes have synth bass. You know, we were really into the Moog. And we used the Moog. The Moog. The Mono Moog. Sure, sure.

I can't remember its name now. But we used that because that thing has such a rich bass. Yeah. Very cool. Okay, Simon. So I mentioned you're now an FOTM, so I'm going to give you a few gifts here before we move on. More jams to come.

You've done a lot since Soul to Soul. We've lots to talk about. But I have some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery for you to take home with you. That's very sweet. Thank you. Thank you, Great Lakes Brewery. Thank you, GLB.

And, Simon, do you enjoy Italian food? Oh, absolutely, yes. Okay, good, because in my freezer right now is a lasagna for you, courtesy of Palma Pasta. Oh, I will enjoy that, absolutely. And I know you're an East End guy, but Palma Pasta, they have locations in Mississauga and Oakville, and it's worth the drive, I'll put it that way. Or the bike ride or the scooter or whatever. But shout out to Palma Pasta. Yeah, thank you.

I know you're a producer. You're listening to lots of music. We're going to talk about some of the great artists you produce music for but you now have a wireless speaker and when you're not listening to your jams on this wireless speaker which is by the way courtesy of Moneris you can listen to season 4 of Yes We speaker, which is, by the way, courtesy of Moneris. You can listen to season four of

Yes, We Are Open, which is an award-winning, not a Grammy award winner, but an award-winning podcast hosted by FOTM Al Grego, where he's traveling the country, collecting inspiring stories from small business owners and entrepreneurs, and then presenting them to us in just a wonderful

fashion, and I urge everyone to subscribe to Yes, We Are Open. Cool, cool. I definitely will subscribe to that. That's very kind. Thank you. Wonderful. We're almost done here, Simon.

But I have a flashlight for you. Flashlight. Flashlight. Thank you. That's courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home. They're pillars of this community since 1921. Brad Jones and the good people at Ridley Funeral Home

are there so you can pay tribute without paying a fortune. So thank you Ridley Funeral Home. I'm going to check my questions here, Simon. Okay, so we had maybe we wrap up and again we could do hours on Soul to Soul, the collective and everything, but you're not, I don't know, what's the current, I know that there is a Soul to Soul, but are you like a past member?

What's your status of Soul to Soul today? Oh, you know, it's the same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. And look where my hand was. Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, they just did a big tour of Australia. I don't do much of the touring anymore. That's just too kind of tricky to organize from Toronto.

And I have lots of things going on too. Lots going on. And, you know, it's wonderful they're out there. And they really, it's an insane band now. Really, it does, that'll shake you, that'll shake your socks, that'll knock your socks off. Shake your socks and knock them off. I'm not wearing any socks, Simon.

Nor am I. I find socks oppressive. Like, as soon as the temperatures get to a certain point, like, I'm like, I'm done with socks. I wore my socks on my dog walk this morning, then I ceremoniously took them off to come to you, Mike. All right, good. See, what would it take to get me in socks? I guess I'd have to, like, I guess I'd wear them for, like, a wedding because I had to wear shoes or whatever.

But, like, that's about it, man. I'm not wearing socks again until November. It's always a, it's a, it's a very somber day when you have to get the socks out again or that feeling of putting pants on when you haven't worn like like maybe it's been weeks since you put a pair of pants on and then you're like oh like this this feels oppressive yes what's going on yeah all right i want to talk about uh production you've worked with some amazing artists i mean if i name drop a couple here uh james taylor maxi priest i mean just share with me a bit of your uh you know post soul to soul musical life simon it's impressive well um you mentioned jame jt taylor there

jt's just uh that was extraordinary um that was very early on actually after the success of soul to soul and uh he was making a solo album I think it was I want to apologize though because it is JT it's not James Taylor I was thinking James Taylor it's James JT

James JT Taylor how often does that mistake happen Kool and the Gang of course lead singer of Kool and the Gang of course the guy who sang well all those tunes

Celebrate Celebrate let's get down on it. So my apologies. I would say I'll fix that in post, but we all know I'm not going to do that. So sorry. Continue. JT.

JT, yeah. So he was making a solo album, you know, emerging from Cool and the Gang. And he came over and we were down in that studio I mentioned earlier in Kingly Street Basement. And, you know, this guy is like a superstar but he's a lovely man very down to earth and he really enjoyed our sort of bit of a grimy London studio

and we just really we did two songs on his debut on his solo album one was called Feel the Need. That was the title track of the album and another one, Long Hot Summer Night. Both did really well on R&B charts. Feel the Need now is a bit of a classic in the UK

for the soul heads, you know. It's a bit of a homage to Marvin Gaye, really, but yeah, very proud of that song. And JT, in fact, reached out to me a little while ago and we we um looks like we're going to do some more stuff together which would be a joy because uh he's he's an extraordinary human being and has written he's written some monster tunes in his life wow and uh and what about Maxi Priest? Maxi, Maxi. Well, Maxi was, Maxi did a song on the second Soul to Soul album.

I wasn't, I think I did, maybe I played keys on that or something. It wasn't one of my songs though. But his manager, which I wish I remembered, he's no longer with us now, God rest his soul. But he reached out to me because, you know, things were, who's this guy who works with Jazzy and those guys, what's he doing? He seems to be more of the musical part of the setup, you know. And so put me in touch with Maxi.

And this was just after Maxi had his huge number one i just want to get close to you yeah close to you yeah which was a number one pop hit in the states yeah and um huge tune and which was actually when you listen to it like a lot of tunes back then in of that ilk were actually a bit of a nod to soul to soul they had a similar groove without a doubt close to you sounds like it sounds like a sort of source oh they they were they you know um handel tucker and um oh elliot somebody elliot what's his name they they they who wrote it they yeah they said wow man we love that song we just tried to do something in that vein and s Sly Dunbar was involved.

So in the end, I got involved in Maxi's album For Real, which Sly Dunbar, Robbie Shakes were working on. And I got to work with those guys who were absolute heroes of mine. As a drummer, Sly Dunbar is absolutely one of my heroes. And their work on all those Grace Jones albums, like Night Clubbing and My Jamaican Guy and stuff, was deeply inspiring to me. So I found myself working with these fellas,

and that was a real absolute joy. And actually, Sly contributed to my solo record in 2017. On the two Maxi Priest tunes there, he did the drums. And I haven't talked to him for maybe a couple of years now, but he's one of the treasures of this planet. Well, believe it or not, so I load in these songs, and they have titles, of course, and I know what song I'll play after this. this song here i'm going to play a song that's

actually untitled in my soundboard so we're going to discover together what i'm playing let's see how quickly you can name that tune oh when you love somebody by maxi from my record okay oh it's a sweet tune man all right let's listen to a little of this. There's that voice. Maxi's another one of those guys with a voice that just reaches out and wraps itself around you. Wow. Just like Karen. Smooth, yeah. Smooth.

Here we go. Just like Karen. Smooth, yeah. Smooth. Makes you feel good. Here we go. And then it really hurts inside When you love somebody This line. You think about everything How it feels, how it is Impossible, incredible, emotional

You never know Today we're nice, tomorrow we're not so cool I haven't heard this for a while, man. Give and take, make mistakes Sometimes we're with the golden goal When you love somebody This is how it goes sometimes Makes you happy

Then it makes you lose your mind When you love someone This is how it goes sometimes Makes you feel good Okay, so I've got to tell you that something. Yeah. The little kind of fluty keyboard sound in the background, when it plays again, I'll point it out.

That's played by Tutu Kulalani from Lucky Dube's album, who I worked with Lucky Dube in South Africa. Keep dropping these fun facts here. And this is on Look to the Sky? Yes, this track. You're dropping these fun facts here. And this is on Look to the Sky? Yes. Yeah, this track. Okay. One of the Maxi Priest tunes, and then the other one is Sunshine Girl.

And there's collaborations with Jazzy B and Karen Wheeler on this album, too. Yes, there is. Yeah. And Shantae Moore, another. Okay, I was going to ask you, because you're involved with Precious, right? Yes, I worked on three of her albums, yeah. That's cool, too. Yeah, her debut single, Love's Taken Over, which sort of put her on the map. Big R&B tune.

It's one of my songs that I wrote with Shantae, and she's a dear, dear friend of mine. We're actually going to be doing some work again soon too we're just putting that together did you release this as a Simon Law album or did you consider just going by the Funky Ginger Dome Records

who there's a nice little tie in here so Dome Records is an independent soul label in the in the uk probably the the biggest uh so the guy who signed go back to my earlier story my sister and i a guy who signed us to chrysalis records that's his label when he left sort of the big the big corporation big corporate labels and did his own thing he founded founded Dome Records. And so he wanted to put out a Simon Law record.

So it was Simon Law. He didn't want it to be called Funky Ginger. Funky Ginger. I like the Funky Ginger. Yeah, I like it too. But that's okay. I like having lots of names. What happens when the ginger goes white? Like it has, you mean?

It's not fully there it's starting oh man come on there's no ginger left really to be quite honest i'm i'm blagging it now listen i'm a salt and pepper guy here but you'd be like a silver fox man silver fox you're like the salt and ginger guy i suppose but uh at least at least look at least you got some hair. That's what matters, right? Yes. I used to have ginger hair, full-on orange hair right down to my waist up until the millennium. And then I decided to chop it all off because it was getting way too thin on the top. Time to go. Remind me what year you end up in Toronto. 2004.

Okay. Shout out to Rock Golf. He wanted to know how you ended up in Toronto. We actually addressed it off the top, and I just wanted to to Rock Golf who see he wanted to know how you ended up in Toronto we actually addressed it off the top and I just wanted to tell Rock Golf

that answer was for you buddy thank you for listening okay and I do want to yeah I've been

knocking around in this city since 2004 okay but I know you're a true Brit because when you were talking about

the kinks and you said Davis okay I always know because an American and a Canadian would typically say Davies. Like we have the greatest Canadian soccer player on the planet is Alfonso Davies. But whenever a Brit says Davies, it's Davis. This is a Welsh thing, right?

Yes, I guess it is. Yeah, I hadn't thought about it. It probably is. Well, it's a tell. Not that I needed a tell. You do have an accent. But if I needed a tell, it's when you say davis instead of davies i'm this guy knows this guy knows okay he's from across the pond there how often do you get back to england oh um well it

tailed off a bit during the pandemic obviously but uh often often two three times a year yeah okay cool cool and so today like today let's say it's going to be, I don't know, it's going to be sunny and 24, 25. This is pretty much the heat wave in England, am I right? Well, in the old days, but of course now. All bets are off. All bets are off. They had insane heat there last year. And, yeah, so, you know, things are all changing for everybody.

And AC is not commonplace right in Europe I just know whenever I would go to Germany no AC because it's just well we don't get that hot till now but here it's commonplace to get AC yes it's it's quite marked and in fact even screen doors and screens on windows

are not commonplace you know so it's yeah like I think that's all changing now for sure. For sure. Couple more quick shout-outs and then another Simon Law jam. And then I got the, I threatened to read you a lovely note I received from a fellow keyboardist. And I'm going to read that in a moment.

But I want to shout out The Moment Lab. They specialize in public relations and they have a team of experienced professionals who know how to craft stories that resonate with your audience and generate positive media coverage. A lot of FOTMs you know are working with The Moment Lab and I am more than happy to introduce you

to Matt and Jared at The Moment Lab and you can learn how they can help you achieve your public relations goals. So shout out to The Moment Lab. And can learn how they can help you achieve your public relations goals. So shout out to the Moment Lab. And last but not least, this might apply to you, Simon. If you have old electronics, old tech, old devices. Oh my God, I got so much of that stuff. Don't throw that in the garbage.

No, no. Because those chemicals end up in the landfill. It's no good for anybody. But if you go to recyclemyelectronics.ca go to that website and put in your address. It'll tell you they've accredited a depot near you that will safely recycle

your electronics. So shout out to recyclemyelectronics.ca Alright, let me kick out this jam here. I think you'll recognize it because you wrote the darn thing. But let's hear it. Well there's Karen again. Some wonderful musicians playing on this tune, man. In fact, London and Toronto musicians playing on this tune. Okay, shout them all out.

Okay. And why isn't Blair Packham one of them? Well, he's played on my band with my partner, Jen Schaefer and the Shiners. He's played on those tunes. But on this, that band, Jen Schaefer and the Shiners, our bass player, Astrid Foster, is playing bass on this tune. She lives here.

Her husband, Bob Foster, is very well known as the main sort of director of musicals, all the big Mervish musicals. Wow. Bob Foster's a heavy, you should invite, you should interview him, man. This is how it works. He's a heavyweight. I'm like, I got to get him on. He's a heavyweight.

And Adrian Eccleston, Music Is Ageless, is playing the guitar. He's one of those great Toronto musicians who's played with everybody, Drake, Weekend, everybody. Lovely fella, lovely, lovely fella. Gary Barnacle, who's a longtime collaborator. Interestingly, folks, he is the person who played on all the Tina Turner stuff. He's a longtime collaborator. Interestingly, folks, he is the person who played on all the Tina Turner stuff. He's a Brit.

He's a saxophonist and flautist, and he played on all Tina Turner stuff. Was that him right there? Yes, he's doing the flute on this. I love how he plays flute. If you guys know... I love how he plays flute. If you guys know...

Brian Jackson, who worked a lot with... Revolution Will Not Be Televised, dude. Why is the name skipping me now? Yeah. Anyway, Brian Jackson played flute, and Gary plays with that same... Gil Scott Heron. Gil Scott Heron. I'm sorry, Gil, man.

Listen, you know what? I got to say, sometimes I can't come up with a name. It happened the other episode with the band Doug and the Slugs, which is a band that I know well forever. And for some reason, I could picture them. I could hear their music. Yeah, I could picture everything. What's the band name?

Doug and the Slugs. And it's like, even if it's only five seconds between the time you want to say the word and it comes to you it feels like it's 20 minutes i know it just like you fall down a black hole and you go what is the name of that band and then you feel like oh man i'm really dissing these people i can't even right but so gil up there and wherever you are, I'm so sorry, man. You are, I love all your work. You're a god. The revolution will not be televised. But he made these brilliant, brilliant records with Brian Jackson. He was a flautist.

And with Gary, I'd always be saying that Brian Jackson vibe, which is totally what he did. By the way, this song, Morning Love, is great. Yeah. This was a big tune in England. It really did. This was the lead-off single for that album, and it was great. Had fabulous reception. My friend, Jamal Ahmed, in Atlanta, big DJ there.

He was killing it, and it was a big tune in Atlanta as well. Do you do any DJing I do yeah I've started I've um you know you made me think about this a little bit earlier about the sort of physicality of music and albums and CDs and something in your hand rather than just pressing a button on it on the phone or coming from the cloud and then it's gone yes I um I never I was one of the people who never got rid of my record collection. They were too precious, these things. And now I'm doing a bit of DJing again.

In fact, folks, if you're listening in, I don't know when this is going to go out. Like right away, like before you get home, this will be dropped. Oh, how beautiful. Oh, that's lovely, man. The immediacy. Oh, man, we were live. You can talk about very current events on this program. So, yeah, we've just started this night,

vinyl only, strictly vinyl only night at the Only Cafe on the Danforth. I know it very well. Shout out to FOTM Ron Hawkins from Lowest of the Low, whose voice we'll hear at the very end of this program. Oh, okay. Fantastic. He wrote a song about the Only Cafe. It's on Shakespeare My Butt, a 1991

album. I have to find it. Probably didn't make its way to London, but you've got to find it because it's the quintessential Toronto album and it's wonderful. Oh, man. Yeah, that's definitely something I need to check out. The Only. So the Only now is wonderful because they've got the three shop fronts all

one that's like big big spot now and that middle area is perfect for a dance club so ronnie charlemagne dj ron john and i have started this night um a funky dance reincarnation um and we're doing the second of it's going to be monthly, last Friday of every month. So the only on June 30th. Okay, June 30th. Come on down. And you can now bill yourself as FOTM Simon Law. FOTM. The funky FOTM ginger

or something like that. Those acronyms are just, you can work with those. Come on. Alright, here's the note that came in. The gentleman who is a frequent guest on this program and a wonderful man. His name is Rob Pruce. Rob Pruce was keyboardist for Spoons, which was a big new

wave band out of Burlington, Ontario. Big in the 80s. Rob Pruce wrote, Hi Mike. I'm looking forward to your chat with Simon Law. Since you mentioned that he was coming on your show, I've been catching up on his work. I know you're going to ask these questions anyway. So Simon, as I go through this note, you your show, I've been catching up on his work. I know you're going to ask these questions anyway.

So Simon, as I go through this note, you'll say, I already addressed that one and we can skip it. But I would love to know how he got to Toronto. Rob, the answer is for love, okay? Of course, you know that's the answer.

Okay. And I really want to know all about the work he does with the Dotsa Bitov Wellness Academy. I found a really interesting documentary film on YouTube, which I'm looking forward to watching. So I'll pause before I get back to the note. What is the Dotsa Bitov Wellness Academy?

So that's very sweet of you to mention that, man. Thank you. I became very interested and work in the sort of area of music and dementia. My father had dementia for a very long time. And so I got very interested in it. Music is key for folks with memory loss. And as it gets more and more difficult and demanding for their loved ones and the people, music, in fact, is one of the very last things uh we can recognize you know after language

and even recognizing your your family members is gone a tune will still link you with that person and i saw this right up close in my own father so i started working in in this uh dots a bit of academy was a place that was running for about eight years. And then it had to close down in the pandemic because it was in person. You know, it was a day place. Right. But we made this beautiful film called Music is Life, which, yeah, check it out. It's on YouTube.

Music is Life. And it's about how where where how music can be so important for for the well-being of people with dementia and those their loved ones, too, because it's the two go together, you know. into the bit of method. And we have a one-day thing that's going on on Thursdays, every Thursday at the Macedonian place. And it was founded by the bit of family. That's where the name comes from. Right, of course, of course. And it's, yeah, so if you have a loved one

who is suffering from memory loss, not suffering, just living with memory loss, living with dementia, this could be a really good option. So check that out. The Bitov Method. Okay, good for you.

And I'm glad you told us about this. And I'm glad Rob tipped me off. He wants to know if other musicians can get involved in this work. He also puts in there a hint. Rob Proust clearly would like to... He's a keyboardist, again, talented musician. Just recorded something

with Carol Pope. He's all over doing great things. Works on Broadway musicals in New York, but he's here quite a bit because he's in my basement on June 30th, actually. Oh, okay. With Bob Ouellette doing an episode of Toast. We're kicking out Canadian jams, by the way, so we're going to kick out our quintessential Canadian songs because the next day is Canada Day. Can other musicians get involved in this work you're doing at the bit of? Well, yeah. I mean, it's sort of the pandemic shifted everything for us there. We did have an online sort of thing where we were doing the programs online, but it didn't kind of really

work in the end. It's not for a lot of people especially those living with dementia you know a screen trying to do the same kind of vibe on the screen was very very tricky so then as soon as we could do it more in person we we've started again and we're probably going to be upping to one to two days a week so yeah i, I would reach out to the Bit.of method and the person there is Katia Engel, but you can find all this online easily. And yeah, there may well be opportunities and I really encourage,

I'm actually looking at a way to sort of really solidify the way the music industry and the music music culture can really work much more closely hand in hand with with with the the dementia community because um you know that anybody who's experienced this in their family or or or they know someone who's experienced it you know and you're a musician you know how we we are sitting on the resources which are so good and so key. I had the great pleasure of producing a podcast called Mind Over Matter, which was by the Women's Brain Health Initiative. And we talked to, you know, doctors and explored this deeply. And they were noticing a link that brain diseases like Alzheimer's and dementia seem to

actually affect women more than men and there is a lack of research into why anyways this is out there also so obviously you're doing the great work there and I would just let people know the Mind Over Matter podcast from Women's Brain Health Initiative is a great resource if you have

a loved one that's living with a brain disease. Yes, yes. Oh, back to Rob Proust's note. He says, is Simon still writing pop music? So what do you, I mean, that album I played a couple of cuts from was, I guess, pre-pandemic. But what are you up to today? Yeah, I'm actually doing a lot of work.

There's a couple of exciting projects that I'm working on. One that I can't really divulge at the moment just because we're just putting it together, but it's very exciting. just going to be doing some new stuff there's an artist called latosha brown from atlanta whose people may well know her from um the black light black voters matter movement she founded that but before that she's an extraordinary singer and we're working on something together that cool i think that'll be a very very interesting uh album yeah absolutely and we mentioned earlier you're doing work with uh you're a member of jen shaffer and the shiners yeah shout out to dear jen my my my the better half my better half and our band has now been going for nearly 15 years and we've made two records this is a different sort of light for people to see me and this is much more sort of folk rock but you know

there's some funk in there i gotta tell you well you're the funky ginger there better be some fun there's there's funk in there but jen is a is is is an amazing songwriter herself she's one of these people who sits with a guitar and just can write a beautiful song and so check us out we're on all those streaming places and jenschafer.ca is the website and you and uh lee hamblin are you're still uh una mass did i say una mass oh house music all night long yeah uh lee is now a yoga guru and lives in greece kind of left the music industry behind so it's very sensible man and um but unamas was our house music uh excursion and i still love some house music i'm actually working on some stuff at the moment with somebody in the uk which i hope will come out at some point love my house music yeah

the only cafe when again that's june 30th? June 30th. If you come down there, Funky Dance Reincarnation, you're going to hear the best rare groove, funk, soul, reggae, disco, all that really good stuff. And again, the song about The Only is on 1991's Shakespeare, My Butt by the Lowest of the Low. And this song I close every single episode of Toronto Mic'd with is from that very same album. It's called Rosie and Grey.

Simon, this was awesome, buddy. Thank you very much, Mike. Pleasure. Lovely to meet you. Lovely to meet you. Keep on moving, okay, buddy? Keep on moving and, you know, get back to life now. It's good advice, right? Just keep on moving. I feel like that Dick Van Dyke wrote a book about it, I think. Just keep

on moving. It's like, yeah, keep moving. There's a great Bob Marley song, Keep On Moving too, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. And that brings us to the end of our 1,277th show.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Simon, are you on any of the social media that you want to? Yeah. Funky Ginger on

Instagram, and I think it's Simon Law on Facebook. But there is a Funky Ginger page on Facebook too. Cool. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Mineris is at Mineris.

Recycle My Electronics are at EPRA underscore Canada. The Moment Lab are at The Moment Lab. And Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. See you all. Checks his calendar in real time. This is how I roll, Simon. But see you all tomorrow. Oh, my goodness.

We had a member of Soul to Soul today. Tomorrow we have a member of Living Color, Vernon Reed. Oh, my God. On the show tomorrow. Now, that's a major dude right there. That's Big Leagues, right? Right up there with Chuck D, right?

Holy shit. Yeah, he's a London guy who moved to New York, I think, as a teenager. He's born in England. That I did not know. I always thought he was just a New Yorker. No, Living Color is spelled our way, your way, with a U. Ah, yeah, it is, yeah. Yes. That's why. you. Yeah, it is.

That's why. That's why, right there. If you could ask one question of Vernon Reed, what would it be? I'm putting you on the spot here before I stop recording. What's your favorite Soul to Soul song? That'll be my question. No, Vernon, man,

I just want to say big love. I love want to say big love I love your music I love all the exploratory crazy shit you do beautiful stuff I wonder who, maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of gray. Cause I know that's true, yes I do. I know it's true, yeah.

I know it's true. How about you? All them picking up trash and them putting down roads. And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes. We'll see you next time.