Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Sophie B. Hawkins: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1754

Episode Date: August 29, 2025

In this 1754th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with singer songwriter Sophie B. Hawkins about Damn I Wish I Was Your Lover, As I Lay Me Down, breaking up with Sony, being a part of The 30th Anniversary Concert Celebration for Bob Dylan, her chats with Howard Stern, her appearance on Community and her thoughts on Trump. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, the Waterfront BIA, Blue Sky Agency and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Damn, I wish I was your lover I'm not a school boy to shine too young Damn I wish I was your love for I'm over the door and come inside I feel that I want to make you try Damn I wish I was your lover

Welcome to know my camel I'm in a city I'm in a city love. I'm in Toronto, I'm in Toronto, Mike, you want to get the city love me back for my city love. Welcome to episode 1,754 of Toronto

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May. Recycle myelectronics. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past and Ridley Funeral Home Pillars of the community since 1921 Today, making her Toronto mic debut

It's Sophie B. Hawkins. Hi. Hi Sophie, how you doing? How are you? Wait, am I being too luxurious outside? Should I go in? No, I like you outside, actually. Oh, goody. Well, if it gets noisier, you can't see my eyes or something because these are tinted glasses. I'll go in.

I'm like big on authenticity. Like if Sophie B. Hawkins is like feeling like being outside, I'd rather talk to you when you're outside. Oh, well, okay, good. This is where I write, actually. Can I show you? Yeah, I love it, yeah. Do you see the stone wall over there?

Yes, I do. Oh, that was made, by the way, well, way before the 1600s by the Indians because I'm in a place in Connecticut where the Aspatuck Indians were very happy here before we came and they built the most incredible stone walls

and then the farmers imitated them and built these crappy ones that you see and you can tell the difference if I could go closer I would have to walk there with you the Indian ones are really gorgeous sculptures and it's so easy to tell you know when you see Shawshank Redemption remember at the end I feel like

Tim Robbins' character hid something for red like under a wall like that yes isn't that cool It is very cool So you're in Connecticut And this is where you call home It is now since COVID

I'm a single mother with two kids And they couldn't deal with the computer learning So I literally googled from Manhattan Where are schools open on the Northeast And this town came up And I said I'm driving there just to check it out And they were open for COVID

You know the kids had to wear masks But We ended up loving it It's very close to Manhattan but not too close. It's still country. It's great. You know, when I was going down

this remote learning, I had a couple of pretty young kids at the time in school, and I was screaming, nobody listened to me, which is pretty typical, but I was like, why can't we do classes outdoors?

Yeah, brilliant. Yeah. Like, ventilation's the problem. Obviously it was. It was airborne. And ventilate, we know what ventilation outside really difficult to transmit it.

Let's all bundle up, layer up, you know, I know I'm in Toronto, but you know, Connecticut, Toronto, like these are similar weather's. Why don't we just do our classes outdoors and keep the kids together learning in person and still, you know, I don't know why no one listens to me. But you know what? It's such a great idea. And if this ever happens again, let's actually get in touch and do it because all the there's schools that are only outdoors. Of course, I only know them to be in California. But the kids apparently perform better, if not as well in math and so forth, learning outdoors. You know, I only speak Celsius, so I'll have to speak to my listenership in Celsius.

But you could have a rule, like, if it gets below minus 10, for example, then maybe on days below minus 10, we'll do this remotely, I don't know, prevent frostbite or something. But most of the days in Toronto here are mild enough we could do it. So, but I have a question for you, Sophie. Can there be a next time? Like, I feel like the reaction to this pandemic, we're still kind of crawling out of here. But I don't know if you can do that again. Like, can there be another pandemic where you basically tell the citizens, okay, stay home, stay six feet apart, don't do this.

I feel like no one will listen next time. Yeah, I think you're right. I think people are already starting to doubt COVID happen. That's the way it is, you know, especially with, you know, our president here. It's just like if it didn't have, you know, whatever they say. it is, it is and people just go along with it because if it makes it more practical

faster to get through it easier, you know, that's what people do. So I have some ground I want to cover with you and I know you're doing what I call like a hardcore logo style Western Canadian tour but can I ask you what are your thoughts on your president? I'm naturally curious.

You know, my thoughts are it's more about Mike, it's more about the people who believe that this is what we need There's always people like him around, always. You can find them anywhere in any country. But why is he our president? That's the, and it was such a slow but obvious build.

And it's the same thing with every disaster like Nazi Germany. It's such an obvious and slow build. And it just, it's like what I just said about COVID, which was a little bit, my friends would say I'm outrageous to say that people are already forgetting it. In a way, people get so numb to things, and it's that boiling font thing. So it's not so much about the president who there's, there are dime a dozen guys or girls like that, who will take control and do whatever they want if they can. But it's about the people who accept it and want it and think that we need it.

And I have experienced this, if I make it very personal, every mistake I've made in my life has been that I haven't stopped, taken a few deep breaths and said, what we really need to do is figure out what the problem is and talk, even if it's personal relationships, if it's business problems, if it's everything. We react, humans react so fast and they want someone else to solve their problems. Do you? No, I was going to ask you if you still identify as conservative. Me? Yeah. Ever identified as conservative? Tell me. No, I mean, you know, I do my homework here. Have you ever identified as conservative? Well, I've never voted for a conservative president.

I voted for Kamala Harris with bells on and Hillary Clinton. The only time I went against a Democrat was when I was for Hillary Clinton, and she was also a Democrat. And I went against, I'm sorry, Obama. I voted not for Obama, but for Hillary in the Democratic convention. But then, of course, I voted for Obama when he was the, I don't know what's the name incumbent. I'm not very political, but I've never been conservative. I went to one thing as an omnisexual liberal. I went and performed at a right-wing thing in Washington

because my partner, Gigi, a woman, thought, and she was never conservative either, thought it would be a great idea. And her heart was in the right place, and I just listened, to bridge the gap, to say, well, because they invited me there, by the way. And maybe I was a stooge, if that's the right word. Maybe they invited me to make fun of me.

but they invited me to sing at a convention, a gay convention who were conservatives. And we, I, Gigi thought and convinced me that this would be a great idea to help bring the country together. And I had the song, Damn, written, The Land of the Free is purple, not red and blue. Right. So I guess you could call me purple. I wanted to mix the people. It's basically what I just said. Take your breath and talk about it.

but I didn't realize I'd better not foray into the political world because that's not how it was perceived. See, this is where I think that bad intel comes from, I think, is that performance. Because if you start to, you know, dig online, learn more about Sophie B. Hawkins, it does suggest that even though you are a member of the LGBTQ plus community and very progressive...

I'm a very, very active environmentalist. Right. But that's why I was trying to, kind of understand how one could identify as conservative when from my view up here

again we'll talk about I know what you found did you find a quote where I said conservative in the head liberal in bed yes that's it let's talk about that yes please that was me being I don't know what I was actually thinking

when I said that but it isn't true I might have been thinking of some kind of fiscal policy at the moment, but it's not true. And by the way, I was deeply influenced then as my partner, Gigi, and I'm not trying to throw her under the bus, but she's brilliant in many ways. And she had a lot of friends who were gay, and Richard Gronel is one of them, and he seemed, and he's an environmentalist, and he was helping me understand some fiscal policies from his point of view. So I could have been influenced, and I'm just going to be honest about that whatever I was but I never would ever never will vote for a republican president unless again

I think Lincoln was Republican that's what I mean I don't want to get into politics I want to say and nobody will listen to me say this I am not conservative in the head liberal in bed I have no such things like that um I just was doing some stupid things that I thought were smart it's interesting how a quote like that can follow you and you'll be talking to some guy in Toronto uh from your your backyard there in Connecticut and then he'll have that quote and think possibly you were identifying as conservative yeah no but not yeah no yes I understand and I do I didn't it's good that we're talking about it and I didn't know the impact of it then and that's again going back to interpersonal relationships actually because me and her should have broken up after two years

that's my fault too. And, you know, speaking of Gigi, though, that she did, you did star as Janice Joplin, right? She did Room 105. Yeah, yeah, that was, that was, but that was the worst period of my life, I have to say. But yes, she did, she wrote that, and I was happy to learn to get Janice under my belt,

but it wasn't that great a thing. Okay, because even hearing you talk right now in my headphones, I'm getting that raspy voice. It's a bit of a Janice vibe. Yes, it's true. I do have that. And when I was a drummer, you know, in my 20s, I did love playing with Big Brother in the Holding Company,

and I never for a minute thought that I'd ever be a singer or a songwriter and be playing Janice Joplin. So, I mean, it was a really full-circle moment. Musically, it was great. And someday, you know, I am writing a memoir, which may never come out. But I do love the stories about how I learned to play Janus because I'm an alto.

and she's a coloratura soprano. And how I pulled that off and got great reviews is kind of amazing. And which is why, again, I should stick to music and stay away from all these other things. So the Canadian perspective, because I am curious about your Western Canadian, so I'm talking to you from Toronto,

but we're going to talk a little bit about the Western Canadian tour. And then I have some, you know, Sophie B. Hawkins questions I've had stored up for the last couple of decades. But I always find it interesting when I think of Americans, and I think, okay, so like, I don't know,

45% of your country seems to identify as conservative, but not all conservatives are MAGA. And it is, it's one of these trying to differentiate between a conservative in America and MAGA is quite the challenge in 2025. Yes, and I don't pay attention to MAGA, except I see them on the road once in a while with big flags and big trucks. But here in very liberal Connecticut, I'm not exposed, and I would have to study to spend time to understand. I understand, like, I understand how you see this capsule of this country, but living here, again, I'm right next to Manhattan. I grew up with a lawyer and a writer as parents, and, you know, I can't say how liberal I am, but it's liberal through and through. And I live in a very liberal state, and I'm not exposed to manga personally. And I will say that I think what's sad about this country is the groups.

Like, why can't we talk about the issues and solve the issues, which are global issues, and stop getting this popularity contest? I've never understood this about politics, by the way. It is about humans and the issues. And so I have to just bow out and vote for the best person and still be an activist. And I don't mean to bring it back to me, but I don't have any insight for you. I'm as stumped as you are. Well, you're about to, you know, hop on a plane and you're going to end up in, we'll talk. about this, but like Saskatchewan in Alberta and British Columbia and Manitoba.

And, you know, this country that I love and I'm born and raised in, a sovereign nation, I'll remind you, your president continually talks about us as a, we should become a 51st state. He's going to devastate us economically until we're so impoverished that we come crawling, begging to join the United States of America. This is a very unpopular sentiment in a candidate. And here I am going to Canada to tour because, you know, I need to keep my career going. So obviously, I disagree with him. I need Canada.

And I love Canada. And Canada was my first gold record, although that's not a big deal anymore. It was a long time ago. But Canada has always been, Canada was the first person to love my feet in much music, the video. The guy said, I don't remember his name. He was so handsome. He said, I love your feet. And then I forever loved Canada also because that's.

That's actually my favorite part of me, too. Could it have been Steve Anthony? I'm trying to think of me. I would love to know. Okay. I wonder if we can look it up. So I love Canada, and I love the lyric in the song, Chantal Rohn. She says, fuck this, moving to Saskatchewan.

I heard that song, and I had just come back from Saskatchewan. And I said, oh, my God, what a great lyric. I wish I had wrote it. I love her. Chappelle. I can't believe I said Chantelle. Yeah, because at first I thought, are you talking about Chantelle Crevy? But no, of course, Chapel Rhone. Chapel Rhone.

Chapel Rone, that's one of the greatest lyrics in music as far as I'm concerned. Do you love that? Fuck this. I'm moving to Saskatchewan. My first wife was from Saskatchewan, so I want to shout out the good people in Saskatoon. I want to shout out, too, because I did the jazz festival or whatever festival in Saskatchewan recently, like this August. And so she is at, or end of July, she has that great lyric. Fuck this city. I'm moving to Saskatchewan, which I had literally just come back from Saskatchewan and had a great time and I did mean, I met Chappelle Rhone

but I did meet Chantel and I can't pronounce her name but she has now become a friend Kravaziak? It's a very Ukrainian. Yes, well she has become a friend and we played that festival together I won't note and we are looking for a chance to double bill. I love her. Okay, so she was over here within the last 12 months it's all a blur to me now

but after the recording because sadly, not sadly, but you're in Connecticut So we won't be taking a photo by Toronto Tree. But I'm taking a photo with Chantelle after her great visit here. And then she witnesses a road rage incident where a guy is just ripping into a young woman postal employee and she's like she's fearing. And we, of course, I was going to go and make sure everything was okay. But Chantel ran and yelled at this guy and supported this woman and gave her like a number

if you need this for court or whatever. And I just like, she was like Batman. she is she is like Batman and and her performances yeah I can't do anything but underlined and agree I loved her performance I love her band by the way to phenomenal musicians of females on stage and I love her when she does her solo thing and then she brings her band on I'm dying to perform with her I'm dying to double bill and by the way that's another reason I'm doing this tour which is we're not getting to Toronto I don't know you know which is really fortunate and sad but apparently I have to suck it up and build up again

but I am going to the great... Is it called provinces? Yeah, their provinces, yeah. Okay, I'm going to the great provinces. Hopefully what will happen next time is I will be double-building with Chantelle and doing the major cities as well. Yeah, she's a Winnipeg girl, so she's from...

It's funny, I'm married now to an Edmonton woman, so these Western Canadian women, right? They're just irresistible. Are they? That's amazing. Now, because, I mean, I won't drop all the Nates. I will tell people that Sophie B. Hawkins.com, you can see dates, get tickets, get the specifics. But I saw, like, October 16th, you were in North Battleford, Saskatchewan.

There's a bunch of Alberta dates back to B.C. You're stopping in, like, Fort Saskatchewan, Prince Albert, Red Deer. Like, this tour is not for the faint of heart. This is a hardcore logo style Western Canadian tour. And that's what you mean by logo style. Well, there's a movie. Just quickly, if you get a chance, watch the movie Hardcore logo. Oh, okay.

And you'd love it. And it's a road movie about, you know, bands in Canada doing that difficult tour. Well, that is what, and also I'm doing it with my friend Seth. And we're going to be doing all the driving just as those 10-hour drives. And I want to also tell everyone that I'm leaving my children who I love more than music, more than art, more than anything.

And I love being their mom. And I'm a full-time mom and full-time artist. But it's equal, you know. And I don't have any help taking care of them. and I don't want it, but I'm leaving them to do this tour. So if people buy a ticket, they should know that I am doing this a tremendous heartache to leave my kids, but also desire to rebuild my audience in Canada, which I really love. And please forgive me for that moment of playing for whoever I played for at that moment,

which made me associated with the very bad people here. Although I'll tell you now, this country is interesting that, you know, I'm talking in Toronto, which is a very progressive liberal city in the biggest province. But as you move west, so the provinces that you're visiting, there is, I will say, there's a higher percentage of people where you're going that would be pretty okay with being the 51st state. That's disgusting. I know. It's hard even to be. I don't know what state Connecticut is, but it's really difficult.

And I actually have to say, I did the only illegal thing I ever did. And I don't know if I can be arrested this many years after, but I have to. I have a very dear friend who had reason because of other issues. Again, this is an issue. We're in issues here. Somebody is, I don't want to go into, but I actually stopped my friend physically during COVID where we had to put our ballots in certain places. We couldn't go to the polls. I physically stopped her friend, grabbed her arm and moved it over to not vote for Trump. I broke the law to do it. It's the only time I've ever broken the law.

And that's how serious I am about this. Oh, my goodness. Okay, well, I won't comment on that because I hope the statute of limitations have expired on that one. Yes. And she is one of my best friends, and she would stick up for me,

and she agrees with me now. But it was an issue thing, and it was a very deep and dear issue, and it is difficult how they parse these issues up to turn people against each other, turn the country against each other, I have the wine, by the way. Nobody has drunk it, so you two have to come over.

Okay, see you soon. Who are yelling at there? I want to know what's going on over there. I'm on an interview with Toronto. Toronto Mike says hello to this nice person. She's my friend from South Africa. Okay, nice. Okay, part of the Commonwealth. Part of the Commonwealth.

Okay, so I'll see you soon. I'm here all weekend if you want to stop by. Sorry. Oh, no, that's okay. I like the authenticity. Okay. But I better cook here. So again, listen, Sophie's leaving her kids.

How old are your kids? Dashel, my son, is 16, but he's also applying to colleges. And by the way, he loves the one away. Okay, so if you got this, it starts with an M. And it's, I'll remember it by the end. I'm 60. He's applying to a Canadian college. Oh, McGill.

My daughter goes there now Oh my god He loved it He went for a summer program in McGill So yeah It was one of the great Yeah he had said it was the greatest time of his life So he's blinded McGill

He's only 16 but he will be 17 this year He's a November baby like me So he's going to be a senior And Esther just turned 10 And she's in fifth grade Okay I actually have a No I have a fourth and a sixth grader I've got four of these guys running around

But yeah So we have something common there But, okay, so again, just to recap this, go to Sophie B.Hawkins.com. If you're Western Canadian, or if you have family in Western Canada, or if you know somebody, let's rebuild this Sophie B. Hawkins career. How vital is that B? Like, if I just call you Sophie, are you okay with it, or do you want Sophie B? Or Sophie B. or Hawkins. Or Hawkins. Some people call me Valentine. The B is for Valentine. And it is vital because the balantines were, I feel, the greatest part of my heritage. They're the most colorful, the musicians from Scotland.

I just, I love it. And when I was in fourth grade at nine, I decided I wanted to be Sophie Valentine Hawkins, not just Sophie Hawkins. So it's pretty, I don't know, vital isn't the word, but it makes me feel there. It matters to you. Yes. Sophie Hawkins sounds bland. Sophie B. Hawkins sounds voluptuous. And it's real.

And it's real. It's not like Michael J. Fox. He just invented the J. because there was already a Michael Fox. I didn't know that. Jay's not his middle name. Like, it just sounded good. Do you know, you're really handsome.

Do your listeners know that? They do now. I want you to make sure you let them know right now. You know, normally, see, I'm wearing the readers so I can read the dates. I don't typically, I don't actually wear glasses. These were $1.35 at Dollarrama, but they work. Oh, wow. I used to wear readers, but now I wear glasses because, well, I don't need them for everyday life,

but I wear them because I feel my eyes aren't as big as they used to be, and I think that does happen as you get older. So I wear them to make my eyes bigger too in public. And you said you're 60 now? Yes. Well, you look amazing, and I hope I look half as good when I get there. I'm not that far from there. You look amazing, and you will, because you've got great features.

I should talk to you. Why don't we talk every week? Maybe I'll get you on just to pump my time. I just think I'm talking to, and I like dredging this stuff up because it's stuff that I get. And Americanly, I've forgotten. I love it. Hey, so when I, I went on, where did I go? I went to Blue Sky and I went into, there's a group in WhatsApp for FOTMs.

That means friends of Toronto, Mike. You're now an FOTM, Sophie B. So I just said, hey, Sophie B. Hawkins is on the show. And then Leslie chimed in to say, I am watching your friends and neighbors with John Hamm. And in episode six, she says she was enjoying a Sophie B. Hawkins jam. Yes, they were listening. I haven't seen it, but I was so flattered.

So I have, I got to say, I got to catch up. I think it's an Apple show. I don't, I got to catch up. I do like Mad Men, though, so if John Ham's it is. Oh, God, that is one of my favorite things ever. I know. It's so good. It's one of my favorite shows of all time.

John Ham's so great in it too. But he's a fellow handsome man, so we're in the same club. Yes, you are in the John Ham level. Oh, stop it. That's impossible. It's impossible. Wait, do I follow you? I have to tell my social media,

person Wally, what is it that I follow? Well, can you tell me where you're following? Like, Toronto Mike is a podcast everywhere you get your podcasts, but are you talking about, like, for example, I'll tag you, but on Instagram, I'm Toronto dot Mike and then, uh, great, okay. I'm all, you'll find me, I'm all over the place, but

uh, which song is it that made it to episode six? Of course, damn. Damn is, I mean, sort of a renaissance right now. Well, okay, so what's to do this? I wanted to talk about your Toronto history, but first I just, and don't be offended, you've written many great songs. But there are two songs that I think are banging around everybody's head right now when I say

the name Sophie B. Hawkins. Like one of them is damn, I wish I was your lover. But I don't want to like discount because I was playing it last night. And it's huge as I lay me down. That's a huge jam. That's the longest running hit single in the history of music apparently. 67 weeks on the Billboard Adult Contemporary Singles chart. Yes. Well, you got it. six weeks at the number one spot in this particular billboard chart. Yeah, big deal. That's a lot. And I thank also the songs for really, they really support me.

Because even though there's not radio anymore, they make people find me in other ways. Like being on the jam, John Hamm, which we both haven't seen. But that does, you know, I can't. When people say they don't play their, like to play their hits on tour, I'm like, are you kidding me? That's how people know you. That's what brought them in, you know?

I hate bands. Like if you, like, if I went to see Sophie B. Hawkins in North Battleford, Saskatchewan, and she didn't sing, damn, I wish I was your lover. I would throw my can of beer at you. And I agree with you. And by the way, it's a great song to sing. It is as challenging as any Janice Chaplin song because of the range. And the emotions, and I will tell you, this is honest.

Every single song I've ever written that I sing on stage, I always discover it fresh in front of the audience. I really sing as an, I think more of it like an act. I don't know if this is actually, but I don't sing by rote. I sing and I find new things because this is sounding negatistical, but it's true. The lyrics are so good. The lyrics are so real. I always find new meaning in my songs.

And even as I grow, especially as I grow older, I go, wow, that's really profound. You wrote that song. I want to make sure the listeners know you're not just some, hired gun up there of a great voice. You wrote that song. I write the lyrics and the music. I write everything in my rooms, wherever my room is. And that's how I remember where I was. When I, people say, where were you in? Blah, blah, blah. I think, what songs? I wrote, I wrote that song when I was living on 83rd Street. I write everything. I recorded in my bedroom. I always have a studio in my bedroom. I always have. And that's how I go. And sometimes people like my demos better. And I'm yet to

release an album of the original demos of everything. But that will be a lot. of fans' favorites, because they are better than the studio recordings in many ways. And am I right that a song like that, we just talked about the John Ham series, which people are digging right now on Apple, but like it'll show up in a whole bunch of things, right? Like Euphoria or Stranger Things or Ozark? Yes. Yes.

Because are huge shows. They are. They are. And that's again, thank the Lord, that's how I'm putting food on the table. Okay. No, good for you. And that's, lest we forget some legacy shows I used to watch back in the day, like Beverly Hills, 902 and O in Dawson's Creek.

Yes. Okay. Don't forget. Pacey and Dawson's Creek is Canadian. Yes. Yes. I'm here to tell you all the Canadians. Canadians are great. Oh my God. Okay. Shout out to Joshua Jackson, I believe, is the gentleman's name here.

Okay. He's also in the affair, which I enjoyed, at least I enjoyed the first few seasons. And that had McNulty in it from the Wire. So here's our TV talk here. Okay. So any more instance? So just give me a vibe on, you know, did you know, damn, I wish your lover would be a hit? Like, did you know, we'd be singing it in 2025? Didn't know I'd even hear in 2025 because I was so young then, but I remember when I'm holding the computer with one hand because I'm excited, but when my hands went on the chords of the verse and my finger slipped, I've told this story before, but it's true, I was so tired and I had this thing floating around in my head, the feelings, the emotions. and my left hand slipped and went from an A to a G

so it went, you know, dun, done, but my hand didn't go A to D, it went A to G and that was the magic. It was like this huge open sound, like a jazz sound. And I went, oh my God, I love, this is it, this is, and then I had to follow it up with finishing it. I knew it was big from that core change, believe it or not, but it could be, there are points in our life

where we know we've hit on something but then it's even more scary because you want to get there for your whole life you want to get to that point then you get there and you realize now I really have to fulfill this I have to finish it I have to deliver and luckily it was within me to do that

and I just knew and when I first played it for people I was so excited to get their reaction I didn't show that but they didn't like it and I thought they're dumbest F you see you can swear on this show oh I get I thought

they're dumb as fuck. How can they not hear this? And I did know it was a monster like in form. It had three verses and a 16 bar bridge and every chorus, this is something that's cool. Every chorus has a different melody from each other. The course is never the same in the box because the lower octave is the real melody and the lower octave changes every chorus. So I did understand that their ears were a little bit challenged to realize this is a huge hit. But I got it and they didn't. And then it took one. guy. I was co-checking and he picked up my cassette. It's a long story. I'll tell it in my memoir, but he heard it on his walkman going home on the subway. And he was an actual

jingle producer. And he called me up because my cassette said, Sophie 212-8-7-8-4-18. That was my number. And he called me and he said, you should be making records. So that one guy, Ralph, who's dead now, unfortunately. What was Ralph's last name? Do you remember? Ralph Shuckett and he's a co-producer on the album. And this is tongues and tails. So, was this a demo he was listening to? He listened to my home demo, the cassette. That's amazing. Yes, yes.

That old dog has changed you off all right. Give you everything you need to live inside a twisted gauge, sleep inside and empty rage. I had a dream I was your hero. Damn! I wish I was your lover. I block you till the day night comes Way to you are smiling and warm

I am everything And I'll be your mother I will do such things to ease your pain Do your mind and you won't be ashamed Oh Oh Oh Oh

I see you black and blue I give you something sweet each time You come inside my jungle book But is it just too good Don't say your status and you'll go away Damn I wish I was your lover I refused to the day the guns

Made sure you were smiling and more I have everything Tonight I'll be your mom be your mother who do such things to ease your faith be your mind and you all feel changed Shucks for me there is no other You're the only shoe that fits I can't imagine I'll grow out of it

Damn Which I was your lover Yeah Oh, believe me, I turn on the rolling stones. You can move along as it was going to be able. Sadly, it's time to say goodbye to Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Not forever, just for the season. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball was an amazing partner of this fiercely independent podcast,

but their season has come to an end. But I'll be back at Christy Pitts next summer, and I hope you'll join me. Thank you again to TML Baseball for another great summer. But summer isn't over. Are you ready for a great day of amazing Ontario breweries and live music? Great Lakes Breweries' second annual Brewed for You Fest. Or is it brewed for you beer fest? Either or it's happening tomorrow, August 30th.

Expect more eats, solid tunes, and delicious beers from your favorite breweries from Toronto and across Ontario. It's the Labor Day long weekend And that means the Canadian International Air Show is back Witness three days of a breathtaking aerial show Over Lake Ontario from the Canadian Forces Snowbirds And the F-35 demo team Blue Sky Agency has forged partnerships

With established office furniture brands Like Silen and green furniture concept in Ruellyard, and Doug Mills is eager to chat with any and all Toronto mic listeners looking for dynamic and creative work environments. Write them, Doug, at bluesky agency.ca, and let them know you're an FOTM. Speaking of beloved FOTMs, that's Brad Jones from Ridley Funeral Home. His podcast is called Life's Undertaking, and new episodes drop every two weeks. We recorded one on Wednesday.

you'll love it. And as always, this episode of Toronto Mike is fueled by delicious palma pasta, authentic Italian food prepared with love in Mississauga. And recyclemyelectronics.ca, that's where we go if we have old cables, electronics, or devices. We don't want those dangerous chemicals in our landfills. We go to recyclemyelectronics.ca. And it had everything And it had everything

It had mysteries we understand In California, here we come in And before I walk in fire It had the whole first album on it And then many more And then you were nominated for Best New Artist at the Grammys. Yes.

Who beat you? What did you say? Who beat you? I forgot. They're not around anymore. They were gone after a year. Oh, God, I'm going to have to Google that one, find out who beat you out. But this was a, you know, this song, I mean, global success here in Canada.

As you mentioned, we were loving it. So, like, before I get to Whaler, can I ask you just hear about your, you mentioned you're not going to be in Toronto during this upcoming Canadian tour? Unfortunately. You know, Toronto's the center of the universe, you know. You've got to get back here. There's three days off, and I tried to, with Chantal, get a gig that we could double bill on those days off, but apparently they couldn't pull it together or whatever. I'll see what I can do.

Okay. I'll see what I can do. Oh, thank you. I know people. Okay. But so my understanding is, and you're, you are Sophie B. Hawkins, so you can fact-check me like you're Robert Lawson in the bushes. That's an inside reference for the listeners.

But am I right that your first time? playing Toronto was the Phoenix. Probably, but I wouldn't remember that name, but it sounds right. Yeah, the Phoenix, which is a 410 Sherbourne Street, spent many a night at the Phoenix. That's my actress I remember, because I would have seen the address more because I would have had to get there from my hotel. Right. Yeah, it's kind of like a little bit east of, well, it's a bit east of Young Street, but downtown, yeah, it's an interesting neighborhood. We'll leave it at that.

But love biking Sherbourne. But the Phoenix, I think you're opening actor. Here's a name from the past. Maybe even Cam Gordon won't remember. We'll see. Acosta Russell. This was like the opening act, apparently. But I think this is during the heyday of Damn,

I wish I was your lover, right? Costa Russell. What's the cost of Russell doing? You know what? I have no idea. Like we have to, this is a deep cut because I haven't heard that name in a very long time. Okay.

I'll have to find out what's going on there. But so you do the Phoenix show during the heyday of damn, I wish I was your lover. But then you're back. I think it might have been like an industry, Insider show at the top of the Senator in January 1995. Yes, yes, I remember that. I don't know why it was an industry show.

That was Sony doing their thing. Well, Sony's going to Sony. You know that. Okay. But then I think you went to, you were interviewed by Jana Lynn White of the new music at the world's biggest bookstore. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home,

world's biggest bookstore no longer there. But this was a big deal for us in the 90s. But the big thing I think you were chatting about there was an interview magazine where you, you posed nude hovering over a bathtub. Am I right, Sophie? Yeah, that was another. You're bringing up all my worst moments, but yeah, that was another worst moment.

Why is that a worst moment? Because it was a betrayal. It was a betrayal, and this will be in the memoir. I'm thinking out loud, it should be in the memoir. My very good friend, and she's not here anymore, so I don't want to disparage her. But Ingrid Sishi had promised to me that the really great photographer, Bruce Weber, that if I took off my clothes and let him do what he wanted with shadows and light, that he would get the right angles and that he would not,

that nothing would ever be published that would be shameful, that would make me feel ashamed, that would be my naked body. And when she said, we have done the spread, and I said, I want to see it, because you promised me my very good friend, you promised me that I would be able to see it. and if I don't like it, because she thought, you know, this was going to be a moment. She said, you're like Marilyn Monroe. You're so vulnerable and sexy and intelligent and funny.

And I will present you to the world like no one's ever seen you. And she did the whole spiel. And I thought she loved me deeply and that she would do me right. And she said, I'm not going to let it see you, but it's going to change your life. And you're going to be so happy. And you're going to love the pictures. They're so beautiful. And they don't expose you at all.

There's nothing showing that. when I went to the newsstand, because I didn't get a free copy, and I opened it up, I literally almost had a panic attack, nervous, whatever you would have. And I couldn't speak and I couldn't take calls for months. I was destroyed. I could cry right now. I was so humiliated. You were violated.

It was horrible by a woman, a woman who was everything I believed in, you know. I'm sorry, this happened to me. I'm sorry it happened, and I don't mean to hurt her because she's not here, but it happened to me, and I'll write about it more in depth. Is it possible that it got beyond her control and that this happened by the publishers? Editor of the magazine, which is why I trusted her. I'm not that stupid. She's the editor.

Right. She has final editor approval. Oh, I'm so sorry. Sophie, I'm so sorry, because you need to consent to these things. But now the problem is we've talked about it, and people will look it up. I'm going to order, listen, they listen to me. My listeners are very obedient. I'm going to let them know.

Do not look it up, okay? But I'm sorry that I didn't know that angle in the story. I mean, he's a brilliant photographer, but they're not flattering and he is like not responsible for that. It's the, I just, in every way it's bad. Like, I can't talk about it with being completely politically and correct. But I have to say my feelings about it. Yeah.

At least to Canada. No, you know, yeah, just, just can't, your neighbors to the north, your sovereign neighbors to the north, an independent country. Yes, I'll say to the sovereigns. I will say, so I haven't talked to many Americans lately, but I find

when I do have the chance to speak to an American, I need to slip that S word in a couple of times. Like, I feel like I need to remind America that Canada is a sovereign nation. What's happening? You mean they don't... No, no, typical guest, a typical guest is a Canadian.

So, you know, I do... Okay, what about Chappelle Rhone? I'm moving to Saskatchewan. Doesn't she represent us? I know. I like that line very much. I wish you'd move here to Toronto, but Saskatchewan will do nice. She has to stay here because I really love her, actually.

I'd add that song to my set for Canada. Oh, do it. Yeah, well, especially when you play, like, North Battleford. You have to play that cover. I think we have to. I think they love it. Like, I think they're madly in love with that song in Saskatchewan. Because people never talk about Saskatchewan,

except for like Joni Mitchell or something like you don't get a lot of Saskatchewan talk that's the thing about Chappelle Rhone is that she's so brilliant and she would do that rhyme

and I just know I'm believing that when she wrote that when it came out she just smiled inside so big because it's pretty brilliant and the rhyme is pretty brilliant Let's take you to a happier memory than that awful betrayal with the photo shoot. Can I take you back to October 16, 1992?

You were at Madison Square Gardens in New York City. You were part of the 30th anniversary concert celebration for Bob Dylan. It's amazing your part. That was quite the bill. Yes, and I was singing I want you. And then at the end, I had my arm around, Chenate O'Connor and as she was being booed

and I was really in one of the greatest places in the world in that moment in time probably the greatest place historically we were all singing and it was amazing yeah I think it's sort of yeah you're right that concert's now kind of infamous for the booing of Sheenade O'Connor

who had ripped up a picture of the Pope on Saturday Night Live yes but we all artists we all supported her and you know sort of made a big line of support and but also that concert changed my life for other reasons that again I have to put in the book but there was somebody really really important there who I didn't meet till 20 years later but when he met me and he said you changed my life I said what he said that your version of I want to I was sitting way back in the nosebleed seats and this was a person I'd been dying to meet forever and he's really important to me And it, again, it, you just never know in life.

Who's this person? I can't tell you now. Can you give me a clue? What? Can I get a clue? Like, is this a person I'll know the name right away when you say it? You might not because it's a New Yorker, very important New Yorker prison and what I'm doing now is my musical birds of New York. But it just, it was the beginning of something really, really important to me in my life now, like creatively.

It's a creative connection that really has given me a lot of support and help and soulful regeneration. An iconic photo from this moment we're talking about at Madison Square Garden

is the late Chris Christopherson hugging the late Sheneid O'Connor. Yes, there you go. There you go. Okay, now I need to ask you about as I lay me down

because as big as a damn I wish I was your lover. By the way, when people meet, I have a question, when you meet someone for the first time, you're very friendly and you go, hi, I'm Sophie B. Hawkins or whatever. Do people say,

damn, I wish I was your lover. They used to. Very few people say it. And when they do, I like it because it sounds good. Well, I was, you know what? I almost opened the show of that. And then I thought, come on, Mike, show some restraints. You don't know this woman.

It's cute. But as I lay me down, so as big as that song was, when it comes to like, you know, adult contemporary radio over, like a hot 100, if you will. As I lay me down, that's a more conventional radio hit for you, but we talked earlier about how big it was. Where did that song come from? Well, I was waitressing at the time, and I was songwriting a lot. I transitioned from being a drummer, to then knowing that's, again, another story in the book, how I did that transition from being a drummer

and wanting to be the greatest drummer in the world to realizing I had to be a songwriter. That was really what I was supposed to do. So I'd been songwriting for a while, and I was waitressing at this macrobiotic restaurant on 6th Avenue called Sue N. I was living on Prince Street in 6, and I came home, and I was playing my acoustic guitar very quietly because I had a roommate, and the song started to come out. And again, when I got to that chorus, I said, oh, my God, this is so big for me. This is really, this is beautiful. this is big. And it was big for me emotionally too, the lyrics about

I'll run to meet you on, I'll want to meet you barefoot, barely breathing. I hear the whistle of a train on a summer evening. I'll run to meet you, barefoot, barely breathing. I was reconnecting with such deep emotions from my childhood about my father. And I was just, whatever it did

to people when they heard it, when they loved it, it did that to me when it was coming out. It was a big emotional catharsis. You felt like springtime. February morning in a courtyard but was singing your praise I'm still recalling things you said to make me feel all right I carry them with me today now as I lay me down too sweet this I pray that you will hold me dear though I'm far away I'm away I'll whisper your name into the sky and I will wake up happy I wonder why I feel so high though I am not above the sorrow heavy-hearted till you call my name and it sounds like church bells or the whistle of a drain on a summer evening I'll run to me you bear for feeling breathing.

As I laid me down too sweet, yes I pray, but you will hold me dear though I far away, I'll whisper your name into the sky and I will wake up happening Oh,

as I laid me down to see I'm too sweet, this I pray that you will hold me dear. Though I'm far away, I'll whisper your name into the sky, and I will wake up happy. It's not too near for me, like a flower I need to wait. No, it's not pleased you'll leave. Every season has its change And I will see you When the fun comes out again

As I lay me Down to sleep Yes I pray That you will hold me dear Though I far away I'll whisper your name Into the sky And I will wake up having

As I made me down to sleep as I pray And you hold me deep Don't fall away I'll whisper Your name into the sky And I will wake up heavy When the sun comes out again, when the sun comes out again, when the sun comes out again, when the sun comes out again, when the sun comes out again, oh, It's a song come back, I pray.

I pray. It blows me away when I hear an artist like yourself talk about the creation of something that's become so timeless and iconic. It's almost like inspiration just sort of taps you on the shoulder, whispers in your ear, and then you're off to the races. Yeah, it's true. It's true. And I think that because I'm always working at it and not to diminish from that, because I sit down every morning at 6 and write, it's the channels are open. And when people say, oh, you're endless writing, people who know me, oh, she's doing her endless writing. But they don't realize that without that, how am I going to keep a record?

and the channels open. When I, when I, I was working before we were talking, and I have my journal, and it has, you know, the moments of ideas, oh, this for the book and, oh, this is for the musical. But I always start off with, you know, good morning, August 29th, 2025, and I literally start with what's happening. And if I didn't do that, that's opening the channels. And I really encourage people who are artists, even if you're painting, everything starts with me in a journal. And all the lyrics, I wrote, if I say something, to somebody that's quippy and good. I go, I write that down. That's a good song. You know, that's a good, and even though it might just end up in a lyric in five years, it's there. You will be surprised. I went back and found, because I was going through the journals, for research for the book, and I found the first lyrics of damn, I wish I was your lover. Before damn, I wish I was your lover, those verse lyrics were coming out in dribs and drabs for a full month before the song hit. So I said, God, Sophie, don't ever stop writing in your journal. No, never stop writing in that journal. There's a band I love, a Canadian band. They're called the Tragically Hip. I don't know if you've

heard of the Tragically Hip. I think I've heard that name. That's fabulous. But, but, so I would, I'm just going to show you road apples, because I have the vinyl hanging around here. But Tragically Hip, you know, Gore Downey, the late great iconic singer. He would write the lyrics, but he would do these, like, improvisational, like, rambles in the middle of songs. And I would see them live all the time, and he would kind of tell this story or break into this improv tag thing. He's doing in the middle of like New Orleans is sinking or something like that. And then years later that melody

or that lyric would show up in a new hip song. Like you were kind of like watching him work things out like that. I think that's, you just described exactly the process. And when I was beginning songwriting, I used to jam with this guitar player and I hope he's alive,

David Moreno. And if he's, he's probably living in Canada because he was really brilliant. He was a classical guitar player and we would do these jams for hours all night and he would play a guitar and I'd be singing and I have the cassettes. We would just be doing that and I think that all

again honed my mind and I do a lot of that on stage too. I'm very there in the moment and improvising and yes I agree. Amazing. Amazing. Okay so the first album Tungs and Tales gives us Dan I wish I was your lover and then the second album Whaler

gives us as I lay me down. But I just wanted what you would say about what happened with Sony and that third album. Well, I only know my point of view. My point of view is that. So Whaler, by the way, almost never came out. Because

Sony America, this is my point of view, what I heard from Sony people who were very good to me in Europe. Before the second album was recorded, Sony US had moved to Europe. Nobody in America gets you. couldn't have been further from the truth, but that's what they said. So I did. I was like, I get to move to Europe, so I moved to London, and I started recording

Whaler, and Sony America didn't hear a hit, and Sony Europe heard a lot of hits. They heard, don't, don't tell me no, and right beside you, right beside you was the first one, and they heard, as I leave me down, and they heard another one I can't remember right at the moment, but they loved, they loved, did we not choose each other, they loved so many songs on it, And so I had a stream of hits in Europe for like two years. And then they sort of nudged Sony America and said, wake up. This is a great album.

So then Sony brought me back for As I Leave Me Down, which they realized was it, but you know, I guess it's timing. And so then As I Let Me Down had that whole other life now in America. By the time we got to the third album, it was sort of the same story. They didn't hear a hit on the third album. And I was aghast because I thought, wow, no connection. I walk alone. How do you not hear these songs?

But they didn't want to support it. So I don't know exactly what happened, but they essentially put me aside again. And then this Napster thing happened where Napster opened, where Napster opened the channels of the digital world and went into what Sony called the back door of digital, and the album got out to my fans. Lose Your Way, that's what happened. Now I'm remembering it. So there was that movie that my partner made sort of on me.

Again, not many moments I love, but some moments I love. Shouldn't have done it probably. But anyways, Lose You Way was in the movie, and I was promoting it. But this is how I met my fantastic Canadian support system. Janis Higman and her partner, Jen, was because of that movie, Kremel Rise was in a film festival. Janice Higman, who lives in Canada, was working at the film festival.

And I've never lost connection with her, by the way. She still works with me. And she was there for this, and she could speak much more accurately on this. Lose Your Way was on a radio, I think it could have been Canadian, but on a radio station, maybe Florida. Florida played Lose Your Way because I asked them.

They said, what do you want to play from the new album? And I said, but I wasn't there with Sony. I was there promoting the movie for the film festival, so I was being a renegade. And then the fans heard, lose your way, and basically somehow,

combined with Napster doing what Napster was doing, they broke through the back tour digitally, downloaded the album, and were so happy that the album that Sony wouldn't release was now theirs. Sony got furious with me and thought I did it on purpose, and I said, no, I just played the song that I thought was the best from the album.

And you should get behind this, And I said, Sony, use this. This is the internet. Use it. They want the album, give it to them now. We've got a fan base who's got it and willing to promote it. Wouldn't that have been smart? To basically, in other words, if Sony wasn't wanting to put money in it, this was free promotion. These were avid fans who had downloaded it and loved it.

But they couldn't see the forest for the trees. And they got mad at me and they were fighting with me. And basically, I got my master's back and had to release it on my own. they didn't technically drop me but it was horrible but they should have used the moment and that's what I want to say Mike it was a moment where I was a bit ahead of my time

and trumpet swan productions was born yeah and take the trump out of the trumpet please oh you know what I love there's a game yukr do they play yukr in the states I think they do but it's big in Ontario they play yuker okay I don't know okay so yuker's a card game but you

a certain card will be trump right so forever I grew up with this show playing with my grandmothers on both sides like euchre's everywhere in this province and I grew up playing it all the time in high school you'd play it at lunch all the time but you know a card has to be Trump and whatever

I guess 2016 that word just it's just yeah we need a new word anyway so whenever the word Trump appears in the wild it's got a whole different connotation now a lot of my friends won't allow that word to be said in their homes in any way shape or form

and they're not playing euchre that's for sure Exactly. And so, but was I clear about the story? The story was there was a moment in 98ers where the fans did exactly what we would want them to do and what you pay people to do now, digital marketing. Sony couldn't see the forest for the trees, and I'll say that blatantly.

And I did see it. I said, wow, this is, this is, and there was a woman doing it already. What's her name? You know her name. Starts with an A. the first woman to have success selling records out of her van this is because I'm 60 Oh my good

I wish I could help you of this But I'm... Oh my name, don't you? She's huge She's the first independent artist To really make it Well sing a little of something And I'll tell you her name

Gonna come to me in a second Hold on it's right there It starts with an A Okay, we'll come back It's okay Everybody's yelling at us But I don't know It sounded like you were describing Jewel or something

No, no, Jewel, way before Jewel. Way before Jewel, okay. 1996, 77, 98. Well, it's not Alanis Morissette because she's not seven. I'm thinking of eight. Before Alanis. Before Alanis. Okay, so we're talking early to mid-90s here in A, and A-Nee.

Geez, I'm letting you down here, but if it comes to you, spit it out when it comes to you. People are listening, know who it is? She sold records out of her van. She became like a million, sort of million records. She was the first female to independently really succeed. Jonah Apple? No. She wasn't.

None of these people were talking about everyone. Just so you know the difference between independent and heavily supported by a label, everyone, everyone's mentioned is heavily supported by a label. This woman who had no support. It starts with an A. Adele. No, she's so supported by. I know. But Sophie, I'm just screaming A names at you now because we know it's a female and we know it's got an A name.

If I had my phone, I'd be texting Wally. Do you know a song by this person? Yes, hold on. Okay, we're going to get this and then we'll move on. I'm texting Wally right while we're on the phone. Okay. Okay, I'm going to do a little Googling to see it. I know this is compelling audio, but I refuse to edit this out because I'm enjoying it too much here.

Is the artist. Her name is. Dada, da, da, da, da, da, da. oh geez i'm not uh coming up with a name i don't know so this this is an american obviously yes selling an independent american but selling big number of units of uh of an album independently indie successful artist oh my goodness gracious okay if we ever get this it'll be time to celebrate i was i actually there's so many things i remember with my two kids and like i said i have no babysitters no help i even do my i even do my own P&Ls by the way

and pay all my bills. But I want to say, and I love cleaning the house. I am training my children very well to clean the house. Good. I want to say that, I asked Wally, this is the one thing about turning 60. It's this instant recall. So like I'm great with everything but this.

Well, I've noticed it my, I'm 51, and I've noticed myself that sometimes it takes me as a moment. I can see their face and I can hear their song, and I'm like, what is that person's name? So I think this is just natural as your brain ages. Nothing to worry about. but if it comes to you later, you know, spit it out. So I can...

If he's there. All right, well, hopefully he should be on call for these questions here. So because I do want to ask you, now that we've got Trumpet Swan Productions and you're no longer... But I do know, talking to many people at Sony at this point, late 90s or whatever, when Napster arrives,

it did catch the old guard off guard in that they didn't really know how to monetize all this because they were so dependent on selling tangible units of a something like a CD or a cassette now it's a CD I guess at this point that they really didn't know what to do with this whole the internet it's almost like the internet caught them

blindsided or they weren't ready for this revolution that we now sort of had to adapt to so I can see Sony not knowing what to do with it all right well I can't I think that's stupid as hell I know Saudi is Japanese tech they should have known exactly what was coming I think that this dumbest people in the world

and that's Trump dumb That's Trump dumb That's when you can use the T word Okay Yeah I do So I want to ask you Just a few I know I hope I'm not being too annoying here

But I always need a good hour To kind of get to know you And find out what's going on But are you willing to chat a little bit About the Howard Stern interview You did in the mid-90s Oh that was a good moment Where I made him take off his pants

So they'll tell the listeners who haven't Because I uh We did have Howard Stern up here on Q107 I think at the time Or maybe it came later But in 95 maybe not I don't know. The time's a, it's a social construct.

I'm having trouble with it right now. But is this the chat where you identified as omnisexual? And then there was, I guess you were being linked to every, you know, gay woman knowing at the time. Martina Navaritova to Jody Foster. And you had to kind of come clean that you... How complimentary is that? I never met Jody Foster. No.

And Martina, I did have a couple of dinners with it. I adore her. but I was never lovers with any of them What about Rosie O'Donnell Rosie O'Donnell and I had a really good run I can't believe I just said that I hope she's okay with that Well she's in Ireland now

Yeah I know I know you know but it just We were still in touch She's wonderful Rosie is wonderful And we had a Yes She and I had a great

Great affair And I don't know what else to say about it She's very funny. She's as funny. Well, she's funnier. She can't say a bad word. You can say a bad word. You can say it. Well, I mean, it was short. But that was great. Short and sweet and funny. Like a comet. It burns very brightly for a short period of time. Correct. Correct. You can use that lyric in the next one. Thank you. Can you tell me, because I had this chat with my wife last night, what exactly is omnisexual?

I remember it. Wally didn't tell me. me, Ani DeFranco. Yes, of course. Okay. So everybody should know out there that it will come to me. That's why I talk so long, because eventually you'll come up with the name. Yes, look, Wally hasn't even got it. He said Jewel first, and he's still asking me questions, but I'm going to stop.

I know. I will see, so at least we both picked Joe. You know why? Because there was a story about her living in her car in Alaska. I know, but that's so different. I know. I'm not putting her down. I love Jewel.

I'm telling him right now, Ani DeFranco. Amazing. I'm so glad we got that. The same thing. That's the famous story she was living in her car in San Diego. We all know, but I just told him. I just told them anyway. It's like jukebox here.

Okay, so please define for us all what omnisexual means. It's great. Omnisexual means that your gender doesn't define my sexuality. And I discovered this very young when I was with my first lover, a long relationship with my drum teacher who was much older than me. It's one for the books. But my African drum teacher, I said to him when I was 19 years old, 18 maybe, God, no, I was in high school.

Forget how young I was. That's a little scandalous. I said, just because you're a man doesn't make me straight. And he was like, what? And he didn't matter. He was getting everything he needed. But it dawned on me just because you're a man doesn't make me straight. Because the last metro had been playing, and this is how long ago it was, the last metro.

was in the movie theaters and I thought Catherine De Nerve and her husband in the movie. I think not Francois Truffo directed it, but anyway, the guy playing her husband, very famous actor, I thought they were both so incredibly gorgeous and I loved both of them. And I realized as a young person, I get to have both of them. Nobody can tell me I can't be with Catherine De Nerve and her husband. I wouldn't do it at the same time. I'm not really into that. I'm a one-on-one of a Scorpio. But that's what happened to me. And then I said, said to my partner at the time, just so you know, you don't make me straight because I realized, but I didn't say I was gay because I'd never been gay. It was a long time before I would ever be a

woman. And by the way, now, dating, I don't want to say who I'm dating, but nobody's gender makes me gay or straight. This is it. It's creativity. I want to be who I am creatively. I don't want to be defined by the other person and I love all genders and I love trans and I was a very early supporter of trans by the way in 1992 when I was promoting damn I wish I was your lover I was on pop radio getting a lot of flack for supporting a book called gender outlaw which was in supportive trans I was really ahead of my time on that one too absolutely absolutely and hearing you described omnisexual it sounds to me like fluid right this is essentially yeah yes It is. And I could have said I'm fluid and whatever. But I picked Omni because I was sitting with

John Perelis of the New York Times. It was before my first record came out. It was the first big interview I did. It may have even been the first interview I did. And I'm there at a coffee shop and he said, are you a lesbian? And I thought, how do I answer this? Because I wanted to include my true history, but I wanted to leave my future open. You know? So I said the word Omni, because I'm very into the Greek, like Greek mythology, and Edith Hamilton, who wrote the Greek way, I'm very into the Greek mentality, psychology. So I said, how, and Omni is a Greek word. And I thought, all, one, all equals one. I'm Sylvie B. Hawkins. I'm omnis sexual. It made sense to me at the time. Well, you know, I will give you some props here, because we didn't really have

the language yet. So you're in the mid-90s. You're really on the bleeding edge and avant-garde here. That's for a song, The Bleeding Edge. Yeah. You're smiling. You're so fun. I'm going to just say this now on the recording, so you have it. But if you write Mike at Torontomike.com, so M-I-K-E at Torontomike.com, we'll have a one-on-one relationship, because I feel like I'll need to talk to you again about whatever's going on in the world.

Okay, that's great. Just to cut out the middleman, so to speak, okay? Anyways, now you have it, Mike at Torontomike.com. So reminder to the listeners, because I have one last thing I want to ask you about before we say goodbye, but reminder that Sophie B. Hawkins is coming to Canada. Hardcore logo style, Western Canadian tour, October 16th, North Battleford. There's a bunch of Alberta dates. There's British Columbia.

There's stops in Fort Saskatchewan, Prince Albert, Red Deer. It's not for the faint of heart, but Sophie B. Hawkins is putting in the work. And you can go to Sophie B. Hawkins.com for tickets and specific. We can't wait to have you back in our soft. sovereign nation. Would you mind? I'm a big fan of community. I know I'm blabbing a lot

here at the end here, but I think I... It was one of the greatest like art or like things I did that was, it was great. The cast was so funny

on and all. We shot so many scenes, of course, that never made it, but the cast was so great with me. They were so funny. Well, there you go.

I made a part of the on TV, by the way. It made me wish that I was doing that job. Well, you, I mean, I'm looking at you right now. You belong on TV as far as I'm concerned.

It's so sweet. You know what? What is TV? anymore. You belong in a video format, digital streaming. But I got to say, you never know what to expect when you're going to meet somebody remotely for the first time. And I knew within 30 seconds, I like this person. That's how I felt about you, Toronto, Mike. Well, that's why you're going to connect with me directly. Cut out the middleman. We're going to be best friends forever. That's so nice. But thanks for doing this. I really, really appreciate it.

I apologize for the plane. can't hardly hear it, but love the chat. It's a helicopter. It's probably Trump's helicopter, and they're coming to arrest me for not letting my friend vote for him. Oh, no joke. I'd be careful. I know. Let me do this at the end.

You were making that story up for comedic purposes. Yes, to highlight, to make sure people know where I stand. Thank you, Sophie, B. Hawkins. Thank you so much, Mike. This has been wonderful, really fun. And that brings us to the end of our 1,754th show.

Go to Torontomike.com for all your Toronto mic needs. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto's Waterfront, BIA, Recycle My Electronics.C.A, Blue Sky Agency, and Ridley Funeral Home. And for the last time in 2025, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. We'll see you next spring. But I'll see everybody else Tuesday for the September episode of Toast with Rob Pruse and Bob Willett. Rob is back in the basement.

See you all then. You know, I'm going to be able to be. You know, I'm going to be able to be. So, I'm going to be able to see. So, you know, and I'm going to be able to be. So, you know, I'm going to be able to be. I'm going to be.

We're going to be. Thank you.