Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Spider Jones: Toronto Mike'd #1027

Episode Date: April 5, 2022

In this 1027th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined by Spider Jones as they talk about his years growing up in Windsor and Detroit, his trouble with the law, his life in boxing, how Muhammad Ali inspired him to pursue a career in radio, his years on 590, 640 and 1010, and so much more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Patrons like you.

Welcome to episode 1027 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business.

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And Canna Cabana. The lowest prices on cannabis. Guaranteed. Over 100 stores across the country. Learn more at cannacabana.com. Joining me this week. making his Toronto Mike debut, is Spider Jones I'll tell you, sister, Mr. Spider Jones. Spider Jones. Spider, welcome to Toronto Mic'd. Hey, how you doing? Glad to be here.

What is the origin of this name, Spider Jones? Is it the song by The News? No, not really. It's funny, the name actually started when I was about two or three years old because I didn't learn to walk very quickly. So they started calling me Spider because I was on the floor crawling and crawling. And so when I was young, they said I acted like a spider, so I got the name like that. But then when I came to Toronto and began to box back in the early 60s, I had a boxing match at the, I believe it was the Coliseum at the Exhibition Grounds in Toronto.

And, of course, Sally Sullivan, who was a matchmaker and she ran Sally's gym, saw me after the fight and said, you've got to cut that name out, Charles. It doesn't sound like a fight name. I said, well, that's the name my mother gave me. He said, well, we're going to have to change that. You've got to get a name that's flamboyant. And so he said, I said, well, I told my mother they used to call me Spider. She said, that's a good name.

Because there was a few fighters back in the day. There was Spider Elworth Webb, who was a pretty good fighter. And then there was another Canadian fighter named Spider Armstrong. So I've got the name Spider, and it stuck with me. Well, I love it. Now, Spider, we moved you from your Zoom microphone to the phone. And now I'm wondering, is there any way you could actually hold it like a phone? Because I just want to get you a little bit louder.

Because I don't want anyone to miss a syllable. How's that? Oh, better. Is that any better? That is better. Okay. And you can still hear me okay? Absolutely.

Okay, great. Now, when I mentioned to people that Spider Jones was making his Toronto Mike debut, yes, Cambria wanted to know how you got that name, and there we got the story there. I thought I had decided in my head it was from that song from the 60s, Spider Jones, but you gave us the origin story. But then I got variations of questions. Wait a minute.

You said there's a song from the 60s called Spider Jones? Yeah, it's called Mr. Spider Jones. Wow, I never knew that. 1967. I played it off the top there. It's by a band called The News. I heard it. 1967 was probably about 30 years before I was born. Well, look,

my math can't be that bad. Come on, Spider. I decided, oh, he's named after... I didn't know about the song until I searched YouTube and I found that song and it was like a bit obscure. But it's a great jam. Like, it's just such a coincidence.

Such a coincidence. I may steal it and start using it. I didn't know it was there, but thank you for that. That's your entrance music now. But then I kept getting variations of this question. Rodriguez said, can you ask him if the bacon is still shaken?

And then El Grego wanted me to ask you, what's shaken? And then, of course, we'll get to your radio career soon, but I remember you'd always say, what's shaken but the bacon? So where did that come from? Is that just something you said? What's shaken but the bacon?

It was actually, ain't nothing shaken but the bacon, but it's already taken. I used to, people would say, hey, Spider, what's up, what's up? You know, when they'd phone into my all-night show and I was on the Fatten 590. And, of course, we had a lot of fun with that show. And I still get a lot of people that were young back then. And because I allowed everybody through. Because I allowed everybody through.

Some of the radio talk show hosts and personalities, they limited their calls to people that were of a certain age. But with me, I didn't care if you were 12 or 13. These were hockey fans, baseball fans, boxing fans. And they wanted to talk. And I always saw my producers back then, George Strombolopoulos and, of course, Jeff Merrick and Todd Hayes. They were all great producers. And we had – we led anybody through.

And so they'd say, hey, Spider, what's happening? And I'd say, nothing. Shake up with the bacon, but it's already taken. So after a while, they'd call up, and the first thing I'd hear was, hey, Spider, what's happening? And I'd say, nothing, shake up with the bacon, but it's already taken. So after a while, they'd call up and the first thing I'd hear was, hey, spider, what's shaking? And then if they were a first-time caller, they'd always let me know. So I would give them a first-time caller. I got a phrase from Don King back in the day, it was double shot power, double shot power, double shot power. So I'd give them that.

So we had our own little thing, which we called the Nighthawks. It was like they have the Ford Nation, the Leaf Nation, the Hab Nation. We had the Nighthawk Nation. And some of those guys are like Ronnie Hawkins and Gordon Lightfoot, you'd be surprised who listened to the spider's web because we went coast to coast like butter toast every night. Now, you said double shot power. You know, I used to hear you say that.

That's that Don King sample there. And I always thought it was double shock power, S-H-O-C-K, but it's double shock power. It is double shock. Okay. Double shock power. I thought, okay, Spider, I thought it was double shock power,

but then when I was mentioning you were coming on, people were telling me, no, man, it's shot, S-H-O-T. So by the way, now, before we get back to those producers you name dropped, because I know all three of those guys, I want to talk about them, i have a quick uh video sorry piece of audio that's the origin of that phrase from don king so this is about i don't know about 30 seconds but let's listen to this here

a korean or chinese a head of martial arts he says, Tyson has double shock power. And so I say, what is double shock power? He explained to me that the man rips punches, don't throw punches. Every part of his body is like Baryshkov, whatever his name is, Baryshkov, that they can take their finger and knock you out. Double shock power. The people's champion, Mike Tyson. Double shock power. So there's the origin. Double shock power. Well, I had Don King say that for me into a microphone

when he was here for a convention back in the 90s. It was the World Boxing Association or one of them. He was here with Felix Trinidad and, of course, the White Buffalo, who was a fighter from South Africa, France, both. And I got to hang with him on different occasions. So one day I said, Don, say that in the microphone. I want to use it. So it became something everybody wanted.

Hit me, spider, hit me. So double shot power, double shot power. And then they'd become a Nighthawk. And many of them got T-shirts. We had T-shirts made that had the Nighthawk on them, a picture of a hawk on them. And then the spiders, Night night hawks on the fan, 590. It was a great time in my life.

We had so much fun. Now, okay, so we are going to step back to get you there, and then we're going to go beyond, but let me ask you about this. Let me tell you a story first. Please.

Because this is funny. Because when I was up, I worked the all night shift. I'd go on from 12 to 5. Storm Norman would come on, and I'd go on after Storm Norman. And, of course, we went coast to coast. And one day I was all gassed up, you know, and, man, I just had to, you know, let one go.

I'm just saying straight up. And I said, George, strumble up. I said, Georgie, take us to a break because if I don't, it's going to kill me. So George says, okay, so go ahead, you know, into my microphone. Okay, I said, okay, 135, quick break. When we come back, we got Jim in Mississauga, we got so-and-so in Calgary and so-and-so up next. But first of all, these messages here on the spider's web on the fan 590. And then the light went out on the mic so I knew I was safe.

So I let one go like you wouldn't believe. And then I looked over to say something to George. He was on the other side of the glass and I couldn't see him. And I said, what the hell is going on? And I looked back at my microphone and it was on all that time and George was on the floor rolling over.

He was roaring and roaring. I said, what happened? He said, man, you just farted coast to coast. And every single microphone in the place lit up. People were just, we had a, that was, for that night, that was the whole thing. It's just crazy show. But that's what Rachel's personalities were like back then.

Well, first of all, it's exciting there was a live late night show in this city, you know, and I've've had Storm and Norman Rumak on before, and we've talked about the late-night vampires. But the Spider's Web, so let me just start. There's lots of ground to cover. This is awesome. But did you have any inkling that George Stravallopoulos, your producer, board op, whatever his role was there on your late-night show

on the Fan 590, any clue he was going to be something very special in the Canadian media landscape? Yeah, I did, because you have to understand, George was highly intelligent, very smart. Back then, I think because he had more bling in his face than the hustlers on Woodward Avenue in Detroit. I mean, George had an earring in his nose, an earring in his ear, long hair. But I'll tell you one thing about George Strombolopoulos,

he was extremely intelligent and he knew a lot about sports. Between him and Jeff Merrick, I don't know how many times this guy saved me because I'd have one in one ear, and Merrick in one ear, and George in another ear. You've got to understand, these guys were young, but they were sharp. And so what George didn't know,

George knew his hockey as well as any way. He knew basketball, and he knew football. And of course, Jeff Merrick, he was really up on sports sports but he knew his hockey uh you know even the minor level so people assumed that I was a genius I knew all this stuff but it was these two guys around me that made me look good all the time so I'm not surprised by either. They're very bright young men and intelligent, and they know a lot about sports, much more than they're given credit for. So I could see them being.

And that's the reason I always gave them an open line on my show. Within the Spider's Web, I had George on a lot. He had his own show within my show, and I also did the same with guys like Barry Davis, who went on to work with the Jays, and, of course, Eric Smith, who went on to be one of the voices of the Raptors. Just great.

So much talent on that station. Howard Berger back then and Mike Hogan and, of course, Storm and Norman and these guys were all Elliot Friedman we all worked together so it was a you know we had a lot of talent back then what a special time really that this crew and you know you mentioned Barry Davis was with the Blue Jays for many years uh and Eric Smith is still covering Raptors he's been at the with Rogers for I think over 25 years. Elliot Friedman and Jeff Merrick are two of the, you know,

well, they're two of the biggest hockey insiders and analysts on Rodgers Sportsnet and Hockey Night in Canada. And, of course, George Strombolopoulos' Strombo. So it's just what an unbelievable legacy that these youngsters came through the halls of the Fan 590 and went on to such amazing things. That's quite something. And Dan Schulman. Right. The list goes on. I had a chance to work with all those guys. Tom Cheek, Jerry Hallworth,

Don Cherry. Everybody worked at the Fan back then. We had so much fun, and, of course, you had Bob McCowan. And, look, it was a wonderful time. I had no idea that that would happen to me. I mean, I had started out at CHWO in Oakville, which is now Zoomer. And back then I did a show from 10 o'clock to 2 in the morning, and it was a You Say We Play show. It was a spider's web and it was a show where we like to say we brought the nitty gritty back

to the city playing all those great songs and I had access to the Royal York because the booking agent in Canada for Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett and Tina Turner and the Temptations and all those groups with Gino Empry. And he was the booking agent for the,

uh, Imperial room at the, uh, uh, uh, uh, Royal York and, and the major divas,

a guy named Louie Janetta. So they always got me interviews with these guys. And, uh, so that was great, you know, so I'd have them on my show and I'd play all this great music and I always believed

in interaction. You don't get enough of that today. That's why I say the day of the great Rachel personality is gone. The live shows where we had they had a chance to be part of the show. So why is that era gone?

Is it simply cookie cutting to save a dollar by corporate Absolutely. That's exactly what it is and that's why you've lost so many great personalities. I grew up on people like Alan Freed who was a great he's the guy that coined the phrase rock and roll and he influenced me people like Wolfman Jack and then Martha Jean the queen out of Detroit

and they had another guy in Detroit called Frantic Ernie Durham and this guy was nuts that's why I called him Frantic Ernie Durham and they had Joe Howard and so you know there were so many of them here in Toronto Jungle Jay Nelson and they have all these great radio jocks.

But, of course, you know, when people draw viewers or draw an audience, they deserve to be paid. But with these big corporations taking over now, they just squeeze a dollar and they forget about these personalities. So I haven't actually listened to Canadian Rage for years. I find that you have to go to the Internet or go to a satellite to get these great Rage personalities. They just don't have them anymore. And I know people get on me for saying that, but it's the truth. They're podcasting now.

They're podcasting. Yeah, they're podcasting. And, you know, people got to read from a script or they all sound alike. It's like an old boys club. It's just, you know, people love personalities. Spider, you're riling me up, buddy. You're getting me agitated over here. Okay, so we got to... I actually thought you started in radio at Fan 590, but it sounds like you started at... What was the name of the station? Now it's Zoomer.

What was it? CHWO Oakville, Ontario. Okay. All that glitters is gold. So here, we're going to take a little trip here to get you there, okay, because all that glitters is gold. I love it. I want to find out a little more about Spider Jones

before we get you into Toronto radio here. I want to read a note I got though from Makai Taggart. He wrote and said when I said Spider Jones was coming on, Makai wrote, he's a legend and the first radio host I ever had the chance to produce for. So Makai's with Global News

right now and you remember working with Makai? Oh, absolutely. Makai was so smart. You know he was was, he would, he was going to make it very intelligent, sharp. Yeah. He really enjoyed working with Chai. I wish it was longer, but you know what happens to these guys? They get good and they move on and you lose them. Like my first, my first producer, when I first started in radio at CHWO, you know, I had, I had, it was vinyl then, I had to set it up, make the phone calls, and operate, I did everything on my own, when I went over to

the Fan 590, Bob Mbakowicz brought me over there, I hadn't, I wasn't looking to be a talk show host, but he liked my personality. And whenever I got a good... My first one was Todd Hayes who went on to become the executive producer of Off the Record. Whenever these guys, they got good, somebody would take them. And you can't blame them because they

got better offers. The same thing happened to Strombolopoulos. He went over to Much Music. No, no, no. First he went to 102.1, The Edge. Because I remember... That's right. But these guys were so talented.

And so they got these opportunities. So I was always going through producers. That's the... Unless you can pay them the great money as Bob McCowan's show could. I mean, you wouldn't dare take his producer away. I mean, he was the godfather of Canadian sports talk radio. So he had guys like Mike Demerges, who went on now,

who's a professor now up at a university in New York and does a lot of work with Fox Network. So, you know, a lot of guys shake that door. But no, it was CHWO and then the FAN 590. I wasn't looking to go to the FAN 590. I'm not a jock sniffer. That's what I call a lot of them. I mean, they lived their life

in sports, but I was more music's my opium. But the money was right and the exposure was great. There's a gentleman named Steve Hillier, I want to say. I hope I pronounced his last name right, but he wrote me and said, just tell him this kid from Quantrell still remembers him. It's great to see what he's doing now. Quantrell. What's Quantrell? Do you know?

That's a street, Quantrell. That is out in Melbourne. And I lived in Melbourne for 13 years. And I got to know all the young people. Like Farley Flex, who became one of the judges for Canadian Idol back then. These guys all came out of Melbourne. And so, yeah, he's right. When I was there, I was going to school and studying to be a – I went back to school because that was my dream from the time I was 10 years old. I wanted to be in radio.

It just took me a long time to get there because I didn't have a game plan. I had the passion, but I didn't have the game plan or the self-confidence to believe in what happened. Because as you know, the radio business is basically, it's white male dominated. And I say that not to bitch or complain, but I didn't see any, very few people of color, especially on the Canadian scene. And so I didn't feel like I had a shot. And I didn't really go after it. And then when I did go after it, it took a while to get there,

but I was living out in Melbourne and still working with training kids out of box and trying to keep them out of trouble. I always tried to keep them away from the things that got me in trouble. Well, listen, we're going to get to this boxing here, but first a little wrestling, because Adrian heard you were coming on, and he wrote me and said, was he good friends with Abdullah the Butcher and Sweet Daddy Siki?

Also, when did he start using his signature phrase? You've already covered this, but he also wanted to know about ain't nothing shaking but the bacon. Abdullah the Butcher's real name is Larry Shreve, and I grew up with him in Windsor. And he got me my first job shining shoes when we were kids. He was a couple years older than me.

And then he ended up studying karate. He had a black belt. And then he got into wrestling. belt and then he got into uh wrestling and and uh i think he went out west and worked with uh stew heart stew heart for a while and then from there moved to atlanta georgia where he lives now and he made a lot of money he made a famous name and then there was the other one you mentioned uh there was another name oh sweet Tiki was a big role model for me. He used to come to Sully's gym every Sunday afternoon

and sit on the bench and watch just watch quietly never said too much and then after I trained he would come over and give me advice and we'd talk and we became friends Sweet Daddy Tiki is a great, great man.

I saw him about two or three months ago. Yeah. So another gentleman who... Great role model. Awesome, awesome. When I mentioned on Twitter that, you know, Spider Jones... I want to mention another guy, too, Rocky Johnson, who Dwayne, The Rock's father was a good friend of mine,

and he came up from Nova Scotia about the same time as I came up from Windsor and he boxed for a while that's where he got his movement from but he for some reason got into wrestling went down the street from Sully's to Mac's gym and he trained there and I'll tell you he was cut he could he had a lot of moves he was a great athlete and and then next thing I know he's on television wrestling and went on to have a great athlete. And then, next thing I know, he's on television wrestling and went on to have a great career. He played in the CFL as well, right? Not Rocky.

No? Okay. No, The Rock did, but his father, The Rock played in the CFL. His father never played football. He wrestled. Gotcha, gotcha. Now, when, again, I mentioned you're coming on Toronto Mike and then I get a phone call. I'm on a bike ride, okay? This is yesterday. I'm on a bike ride.

My phone rings, so I press a button on my headphones to answer it, but I don't see the number or anything. And I get a guy pretending to be you going, Toronto Mike, and I won't, well, I'll try, I'll give you, Spider Jones. Like, it's pretending to be you. By the way, are you comfortable with me saying Spider Jones that way?

Spider Jones. Everybody does it. Listen, that's a compliment to me because John Moore, my buddy, he works for R&B. He did the morning show, and he used to do that all the time. That's a compliment when people do that. Well, good, because I actually purposely didn't do it in the intro because I didn't know whether that would be insulting on any level but I

absolutely mean it with love and I have difficulty saying spider jones I need to say spider jones so I'm on this bike ride and the phone listen that's flattering when people will do that I'm humbled.

They do think. But John Moore, he's just one of the best at it. And another one is John Oakley. They love to do it. It means they know who you are. Right. So this person, and I can tell it's not you, okay, because it's kind of an imitation of you,

and it's like, Toronto Mic is Spider Jones. And I realized very quickly that this is FOTM Perry Lefkoe, okay? My buddy, Perry Lefkoe. Oh, God. Well, okay, so the question, the specific question, and then you can talk about Perry because he's listening right now, but he wants me to ask you, why did you decide to call his wife Jane by the formal nickname Lady Jane? Because she's the essence of a woman.

Lady Jane's a beautiful woman, but she's beautiful in so many ways. And he's not Tarzan, that's for darn sure. But I owe a lot to Perry Lefkoe. I got to tell you a story. When I wrote my first book, Out of the Darkness, it was selling fairly well, but not as much as I wanted to do. I get a call from Perry Lefkoe. He does a book review on it.

Puts it in the Toronto Sun, and my sales just tripled, quad tripled. And I've always respected Perry Lefkoe as a writer and as a really good human being, and his wife, too. Just wonderful people. So I'm the man of nicknames. I nicknamed Elliot Friedman the fridge. I name him Strombo.

I named these guys all kinds of different names because I have affection for them. And that's why I named his wife. I did some gigs where she was part of the events coordinator and they did a wonderful job. She's a great lady, that's why. Awesome. He says that the Lefkos and Spider

go back a long way, he tells me, so good stuff. Hey, WMM on Twitter says, I think he's from Windsor. What are his memories of hockey and boxing at the old Windsor Arena, affectionately known as The Barn?

Wow, yeah, Windsor Arena. I remember so many good things about the Windsor Arena. You know, in 1958, and I was about 12 or 13 years old, I saw Buddy Holly and the Crickets there. Not the Crickets. Buddy Holly was without them then. I saw Frankie Lyman. I saw Little Richard and Windsor.

I used to follow the Windsor Bulldogs. And they used to have some great matches with the Chatham Maroons and the Whitby Dunlaps. A lot of fights back then. They dropped the gloves. And I remember the captain of the Windsor Bulldogs, Lou Bendo, he sold real estate on the side. And they had a guy from the Chatham

Maroons called Gord Hady. And he was a tough guy. And they're always getting into it. But I have some good memories of Windsor. We had a lot of fun going to that place, roller skating there every Sunday evening. And then I'd go to Chatham on Sunday, Windsor on, I believe, Saturday. Chatham on Sunday. And third week, I'd go to the Arcadia in Detroit. Everybody loved to roller skate back then in Windsor. But the Windsor Arena, a lot of great memories. The Windsor Spitfires.

And a friend of mine, Kirk Scott, who's from Windsor, trained Bobby Appropriate and Joe Kosher how to fight. So a lot of things like that I'll never forget. All right, so speaking of fighting, please tell us a little bit, those of us who are listening and only know you as a radio personality and as an inspirational speaker,

is it correct that you're a three-time Golden Glove champion? Well, you know what? Everything was Golden Gloves back then. So it's not like it was a big deal. The Golden Gloves, everybody fought in the Golden Gloves. I fought, first of all, novice Golden Gloves and then twice open-clash Golden Gloves. Yeah. I boxed, I started boxing when I was about 11, 12 years old. My father got made me box because everybody was beating me up.

I was a tough kid coming up. I wanted to be everybody's friend, but we lived in a pretty tough part of the city, and so I had to learn how to fight. But boxing was something. It became a lifestyle for me. Not a profession. I didn't have that kind of passion. I think, because people ask me why I didn't go pro or why I didn't stick.

I think I had moderately good skills. But I didn't have that kind of passion. You can call it heart. They can call it whatever they want. have that kind of passion. You can call it heart. They can call it whatever they want. But, you know, a boxer to be successful has to be able to sacrifice

his body because it's very punishing. Not just your body, your mind. And that just wasn't me. It's a lifestyle. I liked it. Competitively, I enjoyed it. But, you know, I didn't fight like a lot of the guys

that grew up with for fighting 40 50 times a year is amateurs and I can tell you most of the guys that go with that are amateur in turn pro have what they call futuristic dimension now and they've died long before they should have. I'm glad now I didn't. And I'm a big fight fan. Boxing opened a lot of doors for me, but I was never, I wouldn't boast about my career. I had the chance to spar with a lot of good fighters and move around with a lot of good fighters, and it opened a lot of doors for me. Sure, well, we're going to talk about one great fighter in a moment,

but just to let everybody know, you're in the Canadian Boxing Hall of Fame. You were inducted in 1996. But I want to clear that, too, because I can tell you there's a lot of petty stuff out here, and there's a lot of people in the Hall of Fame for boxing. They shouldn't be and when I was inducted into the boxing Canadian boxing hall of fame it is a ring announcer and a journalist not as a fighter right and I wouldn't take it if they gave it to me I didn't

accomplish that much just because you win the golden gloves does not make you a hall of famer you know there are people in the hall of Fame that deserve to be there, like Clyde Gray and Delvin Boucher and Sean O'Sullivan and George Chiavello. These guys deserve to be there. Colin Fraser and the list goes on, but I'm certainly not one of them. I'm glad you clarified that. It's worth also noting that you were once voted the uh boxing commentator commentator and mc of the year so it's more on that side of the coin that you're uh that made you worthy of our boxing hall of fame yeah and i like to think because the fact that i did box and did a lot of sparring i understood that part of the game the physical part of the game

there are guys that are boxing writers today and and I've got to be honest, man, they don't know a left hook from a fish hook. And the only ring you've ever seen is the one around their bathtub. But they gain notoriety from other people that are writers. And they're now starting, as you notice, you'll see now, they're using boxers like Roy Jones and Lennox Lewis. And for years, they didn't do that. They had all these other commentators.

Some of them were great. I loved Howard Cosell. You know, he's one of the greats. And I liked Larry Merchant and, you know, some of those guys. But there are some of them out there that really never fought. There's another guy, Al Bernstein, one of the best. Yeah, I mean, I remember listening to, speaking of the Fan 590, I would hear, let's say, Stephen Brunt would be co-hosting

Primetime Sports at Balmacao, and Bert Randolph, Sugar, Bert Sugar Randolph would come on and talk boxing, and it was just fantastic. Hilarious. Yeah. Hilarious, too. I had many conversations with Burt over

the years, the late Burt Sugar. This guy had boxing knowledge. He spent his whole life around the game though. This guy was in the gym watching the fighters but he was I don't know if he ever fought himself but I'll tell you one thing. He knew the game

and the fighters all liked him, respected him. Now, you've talked about some great fighters, but let's talk about the greatest for a moment. Okay, let's be very clear exactly, because I went to a few sources, and I was reading about how you were a part, sorry, a member of Muhammad Ali's training camp back when he was fighting the aforementioned George Chiavallo. Can you just tell us exactly

how do you end up as a member of Muhammad Ali's training camp and what was your relationship like with the greatest? Well, first of all, I wasn't a traveling member of his camp. He came to Toronto. I'll tell you the story. I'm working out. It's the story. I'm working out. It's 1966, and I'm working out at the gym,

Shalish Gym. It was on Ossington at the time, above Bart's Collision. And they had the old, it was one of them old gyms you see in a Damon Runyon movie. You know, all the big posters and photographs of all the great Sugar Ray Robinson,

Floyd Patterson, Willie Pepp, Sandy Sadler, Archie Moore, Rocky Marciano, all of them. And I'm skipping one day, and at that particular time, because I was living at the gym, I'd just gotten out of Millbrook, and I was living at the gym doing some work around the gym for Sully, keeping the place clean. It was just in between because I had nothing back then. And the phone rings off the wall, and I answered it. It was a guy named Donnie Albom out of Erie, Pennsylvania, who was the manager of Johnny Bezzero. There's a couple of Bezzero. They're called Bezzero. They're a voice of Erie,

Pennsylvania, but he was also doing work for Don King and he asked for Sully. And so Sully came to the phone and a few minutes later he says, you know who's coming to town? I said, yeah. He says, who? I says, Muhammad Ali. He said, how do you know who's coming to town? I said, yeah.

He says, who? I says, Muhammad Ali. He said, how do you know? He says to me, look, I said, I just heard you talking on the phone about it. The fact that Ali was supposed to fight Ernie Terrell in Montreal, and that couldn't go through. And so they decided to have the fight in Toronto,

which is the reason Conn Smythe left the board of directors, because he thought, he saw Muhammad Ali as a draft dodger. He said, if he fights at Madison Square Garden, I will leave the board of directors. And he did. You mean Maple Leaf Gardens? Go ahead. Oh, you said Madison Square Gardens, but you mean Maple Leaf Gardens? I mean Maple Leaf Gardens. Go ahead. Oh, you said Madison Square Gardens, but you mean Maple Leaf Gardens.

I mean Maple Leaf Gardens. Right, right. You got me there. So at any rate, a couple weeks later, Muhammad Ali arrives in Toronto. So that's how I got to be part of the camp, because he held his training camp there. But I did not, you know, I don't know how things get in the press.

I did not prepare him for, I don't know how things get in the press. I did not prepare him for, for he had his own training staff. I had a chance to get in the ring and move with him. I call it sparring. I was sparring, but let's get it straight. He was just playing around. He could have took me out in 10 seconds as George Chiavello could have. And yet I sparred many rounds with George Chiavello. But that's how I got to meet Muhammad Ali. And because we both like music, I remember I was in a dressing room one day after a training session, I started singing Stand By Me, and he joined in. And then we started talking about music.

And I said to him, I told him who his favorite singer was his favorite singer was was sam cook and and then uh but he was surprised that he knew so much about sam cook about betty king about otis redding and about all these great singers and i told him i said yeah i'd like to get an enrager one day said, man, you should be in Rachel. He said, man, I was born to be the heavyweight champion of the world. You were born to be the heavyweight champion of the airwaves. Why aren't you in Rachel? And I told him the same thing I told you earlier.

I said, man, there ain't no black people in Rachel, and there wasn't at the time, certainly not in Toronto or in Canada. And he said, man, if Jackie Robinson thought like you, if Jackie Robinson thought like that, there wouldn't be nobody in Canada. And he said, man, if Jackie Robinson thought like you, if Jackie Robinson thought like that, there wouldn't be nobody in baseball. He said, and he said, and he also said, Jack Johnson would have thought like you, there wouldn't have been no black heavyweight champion of the world and all this stuff. And he said, you want something bad enough, you got to go out and fight for it.

So I got to know him, you know, through that. And I ran into him at other things and had a chance to interview him a couple of times, but he never forget who you are. I remember my son sitting in his lap and I remember him meeting my wife and me a couple of times, I mean, meeting her and I went out to dinner with him and his crew a few times. So, I mean, that's how it was. He promised me that when I became a radio broadcaster that he would, you know, let me introduce him. I mean, interviewing. But you know what's funny about him is I really couldn't get it until I climbed in a ring with him and looked at his speed.

It was electrifying. I mean, for a guy, 6'3 1⁄2", 215 pounds, his hands were like blurs coming at you, but he never tried to hurt me. That was the difference between Muhammad Ali and most other sparring partners. He never went to war that much in sparring sessions. That speech he gave you is so inspiring.

I'm ready to run through a wall right now, Spider. That's quite the inspirational speech, telling you to stick it out, the Jackie Robinson speech, stick it out in radio. I never forgot that because I used Muhammad Ali when I talk to young people about a medical boxing is a metaphor for life life can be a challenge life can you have your ups and downs but the great champions no matter who they are whether it's marsh annal

whether it's uh joe lewis whether it's sugar ray lennar whether it was duran they got up off the cameras, they got knocked down, they got back up and into the fight. And that's what life is all about. And Muhammad Ali told me that. When you watch something bad enough, you fight for it. I never forgot that. Wow.

Okay, now, do you know the sports journalist, Gare Joyce? Say that name again? Gare Joyce. So I guess his real name is Gary, but he goes by Gare Joyce. Say that name again. Gare Joyce. So I guess his real name is Gary, but he goes by Gary. He writes for a sports net. He's a, he's a,

he's a sports journalist who writes, he's a great writer to be honest, but not a lot of name. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you're talking about. Yeah. Okay.

So I have a couple of questions. He was, he loves boxing. He has a couple of like Ontario boxing questions that only you can answer these spiders. So I'm going to hit you with a few here from Gare. He goes, I always wanted to know why George Chiavallo had trouble with Bob Clareau. Is that right?

Bob Clareau? Am I saying that? Bobby Clareau. Clareau. Clareau. Okay. Who was a pretty good heavyweight. I think he made it into the ring's top 10 one month,

but was just outside of it most of the time. Given that he was from Montreal, I'm sure he was mob-connected or something else. Not really a lot out there about their fights. So maybe, what can you say about why Bob Clareau would give George Chiavallo so much trouble? I remember Bobby Clareau. He's a big guy from Montreal. He was top 10 for more than a couple months. He wasn't a top 10. I think he

beat George two out of three times, if I'm not mistaken. I think George beat him once, but Bobby was a big, strong, tough guy like George, but he was bigger, taller, and maybe strong, tough guy like George, but he was bigger taller and maybe

a little better mover, but those fights could have went either way I think in all Canadian history George Traveller might have been the greatest heavyweight champion our country ever had and we've had some pretty good ones but Bobby Clu would be number two heavyweight champion our country ever had. And we've had some pretty good ones. But Bobby

Clu will be number two. That's how good he is. He's a tough guy too. Oh yeah. But Montreal has had some great fighters, you know, out of Montreal. And I'll tell you, Montreal, they treat their fighters, George never got the kind of recognition here he should

have got. And I know, even as an amateur fighting in Montreal, that people treat you like a star. Totally different atmosphere, totally different environment. Here's another name for you. Ask Spider Jones about Baldy Chard. Former boxer, Ontario amateur champ, street fighter, bouncer. Do you know this name, Baldy Chard?

Very, very well. First time I met Baldy, I was fighting at the Lansdowne Boxing Club. I fought a guy named Carl Caruso. And believe me, that fight, Carl and I went beyond the rules. So bad that we fell right out of the ring and kept going.

Kept going. Harry Davis, the referee, broke us up and was going to just eliminate both of us. You know, was going to suspend us both. Excuse me.

What happened was Excuse me I'm sorry about that Can you hear me? What happened was Here this guy comes rushing in And pulls Harry Away from him Let these son of a

This is the best fight we've had here in a long time That was my first introduction To Baldy Charg who I got to know very well after. Baldy is one of the, if not the toughest guy I ever met. He was only about 5'8", built like a, I mean, shoulders and a neck. I mean, this guy was as tough as they got. But I always talked about how fierce he was. But to be honest with you, I always liked him. We got along very well.

Maybe I'm thankful for that. But he was a fixture in the fight game because he was an ex-fighter and a very, very tough, tough guy. I see Gary's bringing the heat with his questions. I love it. I would like to see him for, I mean, he could have fought Butterbean. Wow. That's the kind of tough ball he was.

Wow. Now, Eric wants to know your opinion on this. He says, will boxing ever come close to the popularity it once had, or has the sport been swallowed up by the mixed martial arts organizations like UFC? I don't think boxing will ever see, not the way it's going today. Good fighters won't fight each other as they used to. I mean, we were so spoiled. In the 50s, we had Sugar Ray Robinson and Archie Moore and Rocky Graziano and Rocky Marciano,

Kid Gavilan. Then you went in the 70s, you had Muhammad Ali. Well, Muhammad Ali in the 60s, you had George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes. You had Marvin Hagler, Alexis Arguello. You know, we're not going to see that anymore. We're not going to see those great fights. Those guys didn't duck each other. These guys today, I'll tell you the truth, I find them boring.

Boring as hell. So I don't think we're ever going to see that era where we had Archie Moore and Sugar Ray Robinson and all these guys you're not going to see it it's not just because of martial arts it's because you no longer see them built up on TV and free TV they want to charge you for everything

so you don't get to see these guys fight and then after they fight for so long, what happens is you know who they are. Right. You've watched them evolve. That's not happening today. Now, Spider, before I get you back to radio, because I have a bunch of radio questions,

but you mentioned just in passing, as you were talking about, you mentioned Millbrook. Why the stop at Millbrook well I was a bad boy let's just put it that way you know I started getting in trouble when I was younger which is one of the reasons that

I do a lot of work for the Department of Correctional Services now and going to prisons and that's another reason I have my Spiders Web Youth Empowerment Center because I got in a lot of trouble as a young man, along with my brothers and other friends. Sometimes the company we keep, I'm not going to blame them. I knew what I was doing.

But Millbrook is a maximum security reformatory for people who are two years less a day. So I spent some time there. When I got out in February, I had nowhere else to go. I ended up going to Sully's Gym because I decided I didn't want to go back to jail anymore. And so it was kind of tough. I was in the streets for about a week and then almost froze to death living in the back of an old bread truck. And I finally approached Shali and he let me stay at the gym and told me I could, if I kept the gym clean, the locker room's clean and I could stay there until I got on my feet. And that's how I met Muhammad Ali, at the gym.

Wow. This inspiring episode of Toronto Mic'd with Spider Jones is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Free delivery in the GTA. Go to greatlakesbeer.com. Find them in LCBOs across this fine province. Speaking of delicious stuff in this fine province, palmapasta.com.

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Shout out to Canacabana. And now back to Spider Jones. Hearing that story, you know, you hit hard times, you went to prison, but that somebody, you know, you hit hard times. You, you know, went to prison, but that you, you know, somebody, you know, gave you a chance and you picked yourself up off the mat and you decided that you were going to, you know, clean yourself up and look at the inspiration you become yourself. Like, this is a fantastic story. So, good on you. You know, I think I can identify or

relate to people that get in trouble and, you know, it happens sometimes. I grew up in a very poor we were very poor. There was nine children and we lived in a two-bedroom bungalow, which had no insulation hardly. So it was really tough. And the first time I ever slept in my own bed was when I went to jail. There were four or five of us slept in one bed.

And, I mean, that's the way it was, and we were bedwetters. So you know what I'm talking about. You go to bed, you're in that bed, man, and then somebody pees the bed, and that whole mattress turns into a war zone, everybody fighting for a dry spot. I think I might have invited the first, I mean, invented the first water bed. I don't know. But, you know, we grew up that way. We didn't have much growing up. And so, I mean, I grew up around hustlers and drug dealers and pimps.

And I got to be honest with you, they were just kings of the street. They drove them nice cars. They had a pocket full of green, beautiful women, sharp clothes. I wanted to be like that. I didn't even think of the ramifications back then. Because you don't think, you think of instant gratification. I want that nice, I want that nice suit. I want that pocket full of green.

I want that beautiful woman. And so I started doing all these crazy things like stealing and got in with a bad crowd that kept encouraging me. Hey, man, you're this and that. You're going to be a great thief. hey, man, you're this and that. You're going to be a great thief. I remember the greatest compliment I ever had as a young man when I was about 13 years old was when I gave a guy some stolen jewelry.

He said, man, you're going to be a great thief one day. And I worked on it. You know, you love them streets, but I got to tell you, Mike, the streets don't love you back. Well, again, you mentioned it, but I'm going to remind people that Out of the Darkness, this is your inspirational life story that you wrote. And it talks about this, like growing up in the inner city projects of Detroit and Windsor and basically like the story that you described.

And then eventually, you know, finding yourself having a conversation with the greatest, Muhammad Ali, who's basically inspiring you to, you know, stick with your dreams of radio. And then eventually, we're going to get to it in a minute, but just, yeah, thank you for writing Out of the Darkness. People have got to track this down.

It's very inspirational. That book took me years to write. It was very difficult to write, it was a like a catharsis you know what i mean it really cleansing it took me years to write the book and i was very honest in the book i talked about all the problems i had over the years and how many friends i lost uh to street violence and you know and um the book very well. It's in all the libraries and schools. It was in all the stores. And I'm just finishing off my second book now, which is called The Predator Within.

And that book's going to be, it's a book that I think every mother's child should have because it talks in layman terms how to turn your life around, how to develop that strong sense of self-worth. If you're worth something, you're not going to go in the streets. You're not going to, you're not, because you'll understand, you're worth more than going to prison or dying so young. I see so many people up where my youth center is that have brothers and sisters, especially brothers that have been murdered or are doing life in jail for crime.

You have to bring them hope, but you also have to inspire them and mentor them. And these are things that I needed growing up, and I put them in my book. It's straight up the way it is. Well, I mean, you walk the walk. I mean, you're a grade five dropout. Like, I know some, you know, high school dropouts. I don't know any grade five dropout. Like, you dropped out at grade five, and then you...

Well, I was signed out. My father signed me out of school because I flunked grade three and four. I have a learning disability. I still have it. I just learned how to deal with it. I do not process information at the same speed. So I was basically put in special ed classes growing up. And the rest of the kids called them the ding-dong class. They made fun of us. That made us worse.

And so I bought into this after a while. I bought into, hey, you know what? I must be stupid. You keep hearing it. You may not admit it, but underneath, people don't expect much of you, so you don't expect much of yourself. So you believe, to dream to be a radio broadcaster to me was delusional. It was something that I wanted, something I had a passion for, but I never really believed I could cut it. I didn't have what it took. This is what kept me down because I had no self-worth. I didn't believe I was worth my dream. And then at the age of 30, you mentioned this earlier,

but you're returning to school at the age of 30. 33, and you become an honors student. Well, you know what? I went back to school because my wife taught me into it. Because I always talked about wanting to be enraged. One day she said, you're going to be talking like this until you're six years, seven years old. Your dream is to be enraged. And here you are talking about it.

But it's not happening. Why don't you do something? Meanwhile, I had all these different jobs. You've got to remember, I had no education. My father signed me out of school. I was thieving. I went to prison. I got out, went back to jail, got out.

And finally, I decided I can't do this anymore. But what can I do? I had no game plan. I had no understanding. You have to have some kind of design. You've got to have a map, a roadmap. Where am I going? Where is this taking me?

And I had all these different jobs. The last job acted as a catalyst, though, because I was up at Sully's one day, and I was working out, and after I worked out, I always had a cup of green tea, and I would read the paper, I saw this ad and it said, this jockey wanted West End Lounge, busy West End Lounge. So the next morning I applied, next day I applied for it. I got it right away.

And it was a seedy, tough joint. The old Drake House just out of Parkdale in Toronto and this particular time the people that patronize that place where the hustlers ex-cons gang gangsters and it was a seedy bunch and there you know a lot of drugs going on upstairs there was a lot of drug dealing going on at any rate my first night there I'm playing the music and a fight breaks out. The owner comes rushing over and asked me to go break up the fight and I told him straight up,

I'm not here to break up any fights. I'm in this job. He says, listen, if you don't break up this fight, the police are going to come and close us down again. Again? He said, yeah. And they closed us down. You got no job. I needed the money. So I broke up the fight, got my clothes, breaking it up. A couple nights later, I break up another fight, and it went on. And one day, it hits me. They got a guy working the door.

Now, that's supposed to be the guy that breaks up the fights, the doorman, the bouncer. This guy had pythons for arms, and he had that long hair. He looked like Tarzan, but he was actually a magician. Every time a fight broke out, he'd disappear, and he'd lead me to do the fighting. So I finally talked to the boss from Geno and had him fired, and I took his job. So now I'm just a jockey slash bouncer doing a job I hated. It got to the point where I didn't even want to go in because you never know what's going to go down there.

People get knifed in there. There are guys in there carrying guns. The police were always raiding the place. It was just the kind of life that I left. The kind of life that I left. You know what I'm saying? I didn't want to go back to that. I was living

the life that I wanted to get away from for all those years. And one night, I was playing some music and I heard a couple of screams. And they were coming from the woman's washroom. I rushed around there. I opened the door and I saw this guy. He was

pimp and he was smacking this girl around. I wrote about it in the book. When I stopped him, he pulled a straight razor and he cut my wrist. I worked him over really good with a garbage can. And the next thing I know,

I'm sitting in the back of a police cruiser and they're taking him out on a stretcher. I don't know if he's dead or alive. I don't know what's going on. But it's the most frightening moment of my life because I thought I'm going back to jail again. Now my wife at this time, she's pregnant, and I'm going to have my first kid now.

I want to go back to jail. No, I was looking forward to being a father. And so when they took me to prison, they took me to a holding tank at Harrison Division, which is at Dundas, just north of Dundas, in Ossington, and I was in there. It's about 3 in the morning. It's on a Friday night,

and so I know I'm going to be in there until Monday morning, probably, before I go to court. And I was in there with about eight or nine other guys, a couple were drunk, and it was just a terrible feeling, and I said, I'm going back to jail. About three in the morning, a police officer came down and called my name. He said, Jones, Charles Jones.

I said, yes, me. I figured they were taking me to the Don for the night or a couple days, and he says, you're free to go. I said, what? He said, yeah. you're free to go. I said, what? He said, yeah. He said, the guy you beat up, he's actually wanted on assault battery charges, and not just here, in Buffalo, and in New York, and he's also here illegally. So I was let go, but that was it. When I got home that night, my wife, she set it up for me to go to school. And I wanted to very quickly.

I didn't want to go back to school because I didn't even finish public school. And she set me up with college prep. So I went to college prep, and then I got into regular college. And I excelled. I found out the one thing. I may be slow processing, but if I worked hard, I could overcome that, and so I just got focused and focused, and I found out what I could do, and I did it, and I graduated from Seneca College,

winning the alumni award, which is huge, the premier's award, and the Board of Governors Award with honors. So that was something that I never believed would happen. Wow. What a story. Okay, Spider. Now, does this lead, you mentioned CHWO, right? This is the call letters from the, did I get that right? CHWO. How do you get that gig? Through George Shavello. George knew the program manager there. He pushed for me big time.

And prior to that, he got me... George opened the door for me at... We did a TV show, what Coast to Coast called Famous Knockouts. And George demanded the producers that I be his co-host with him because we had this chemistry

and so George and I did that show and then I was telling him about how I wanted to get into radio and he opened the door for me, CHW so you know, I'll always be grateful to George Chevelle for that doing not just that he believed in me

wow now okay so sorry go ahead no go ahead I'm sorry so you mentioned Bob Mackiewicz Sr. we gotta say Sr. because of course everybody remembers anyone listening to the Fan 590 in your era there remembers The Game

which was this all night show with George Strombolopoulos, Jeff Merrick, and Bob Makowitz Jr. So that was The Game. Another bright, brilliant young man. Yeah, those guys were, yeah. Well, you know, Bob Makowitz called me one day. I'll tell you what happened. When I was at CHWO, I still did some boxing stuff.

And every time there would be a fight of note coming up back then, either Mike Hogan or Stormer Nolan would call me, and I'd go on their show. And so Mackwitz heard me me and he called me in one day and said, how would I like you to do a Sunday show? And it just evolved from doing a Sunday show

to working the night shift. And so I just, it was just a great gig. I was there for about seven years and they sent me to Las Vegas to cover the Mike Tyson, the Erie situation. I went to Las Vegas. I flew there with my wife

and of course Pat Marsden and John Derringer. We all flew together and I covered the fight for the band. You mentioned Mike Hogan. So Mike Hogan is a good FOTM been on this program you're now an FOTM as well

friend of Toronto Mike so congratulations Spider I like that so Mike Hogan fellow FOTM Mike Hogan wrote me and you mentioned you said this term earlier and I wish I had called up this question then

but he wrote when Spider brings the nitty gritty back to the city exactly where is he getting the nitty gritty back to the city, exactly where is he getting the nitty gritty from? It comes from the soul, man. Of course. You know, it's a funny thing. When I started that show at CHWO, I was on about a month and a half,

and it caught on so quick with all the slang. Like, he's bringing the here is your ever-loving, creepy-crawling, local beauty on duty, the lovable one, Spider Jones, and I would say that, and I'd play that music in the background, then we'd come up, we'd do everything, and I was telling him I'm bringing nitty gritty back to the city, Spider Jones style, that's just from the heart, man, it's just, I mean, we're gonna have a great time tonight. But it caught on. I get a call one day from Jerry Gladman, who was

a senior writer with the Toronto Sun. He came out and interviewed me and he did a whole page. And he put it there, Spider Jones brings the nitty gritty back to the city. And it was just something else. I couldn't believe it. And I got a picture somewhere of me sitting in this leather jacket, leather pants with a band around my head.

I had hair back then with my feet up on the table doing my thing or my thang. I say no thing but a chicken wing. You know, we used to have all the old sayings I used to have. Like, we got enough gold to make Fort Knox look like a piggy bank. You know, you say we play. And then we just, people would send in invitations. I mean, they'd want to send out all kinds of, yeah, you know, dedications to one another.

And the show really caught on. And Mack watched, listened to it. And then he said he wanted me over at the fan. So I finally wentications to one another. And the show really caught on. And Mack watched, listened to it. And then he said he wanted me over at the fan. So I finally went over to the fan. And I liked that. And when I got to the fan, that's when the whole thing started, the speaking. People started, I always shared my story with people. You know, I'm living my dream.

I would tell them I'm living my dream. Man, I got people listening to me on a microphone, 33 stories up in the air, and I'm talking to people all across the city, across the province, and my show's going into parts of the United States, man, and I couldn't believe it. And my phone, you know, all night long that phone would ring. It didn't matter, and we had a lot of fun. So I had a school teacher call me and ask me to go and speak to some of his kids.

And that parted into a second career. And that's why after a while I decided, you know what, I'm making more money out here speaking than I am on radio. And I'm turning people's lives around. And I found that that was, the most gratifying thing you did is a letter from somebody saying, when you spoke to me, it changed my life.

Yeah, so good for you. I mean, you are an incredible motivational speaker. I said I was ready to run through a wall. Well, as soon as we hang up this call, I'm going to do exactly that. But I need some more run through a wall. As soon as we hang up this call, I'm going to do exactly that. But I need some more radio. I was listening to you on the Fan 590, but

why did you leave the Fan 590? Well, I got a better offer. I got another offer from CFRB. No, 640. Talk 640. And it was

I liked the idea of going over there and I could do the late drive from 5 to 8 o'clock. No more all night stuff. As much as I loved the fan, I got tired of doing listening to people crying about the Leafs all night

or about their team or about... After a while, you just get to the point where you want to try something new. And I wanted to get in to talk, Rachel, because I'm a political animal. And I wanted to get in to Rachel and talk about other things, other concerns, other issues that concern us. And the money was nice. I went over there and then from there. But then they changed that to Mojo.

Yeah, and that just didn't work for me at all. It did not work for me. Quick aside. So I recently had Ripken on the show. And Ripken was there for the launch of Mojo Radio. And as were Humble and Fred, who I produced their podcast today. Yep. It's a funny small world.

Derringer. Yeah, Derringer was there, and May Potts was there. Yep, and there was somebody else there, I forget, but it just wasn't what I wanted. I liked it until it went mojo. I found it offensive to women. I really did. And a lot of women found it offensive, and they told me.

It's funny, because when Ripken's telling stories, he said he didn't realize it was going to be so risque and so Maxim magazine when he signed up for the Mojo radio, he didn't realize. Uh, and he, he says he remembers like day one, the topic would be it again.

This is his memory. Uh, how old were you when you had your first boner? This is the memory bank of Ripken remembering, uh, the start of, I was about, I was about 10.

Yeah. I know what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. I just, you know what? Because when I was over 640 before that, we had a huge female audience. Right. And so I just felt, I mean, that's the way I grew up, man. There are certain things that I just draw a line on. And I just didn't feel good about it.

Here I am as a motivational speaker trying to inspire men and women to better life. And I just think that some of the issues there and conversations were just too risque for me and I just didn't like it. And by then I'm really doing well as a motivational speaker. So I get a call from, at this particular time, now I get the Premier's Award for the work I'm doing in the community, which is a very prestigious award back then. I make the front page of the newspapers.

The National Post does a whole two-page section on me. I couldn't believe it. Here, this stuff's going on. The Toronto Sun, two different articles on me. The Toronto, the Windsor Star front page. So I get a call from Steve Couch. He is the program manager for CFRB. And he wants to do a deal with me. I said, okay.

I'm in London at the time getting the award, the Premier's Award. And so I come back and we cut a deal where I'm going to work there. I'll do Sundays, the Sunday afternoon drive, I call it, because that's the cottage drive. It's very good. And the rest of the time I'll fill in for other people, but I don't want to work five days a week anymore because it's starting to take a toll on me

because I'm traveling a lot. I'm working as the, I'm also at that time, the Ambassador of Skilled Trades, the Ontario government appoints me as Ambassador of Skilled Trades, so they're sending me all over Ontario to, as a matter of fact, I'm going all over the country evangelizing the skilled trades,

which is, between that and doing my other engagements, it's taken up a lot of time. So I ended up doing my Sunday show over CFRB and then also filling in. But it got to the point where one time I ended up working about 45 days without a day off, filling them for everybody all through. And I finally said, man, this is crazy. And then, yeah.

That's the domain of Roger Lejoie. Oh, Roger. I did a lot of work with Roger. Right. Roger worked. Listen, Roger was like me too. Fill in, fill in work with Roger. Right. Roger worked... Listen, Roger was like me, too. Fill in, fill in, fill in. But he knows his stuff.

Roger and I worked together off and on for about 25 years. Oh, yeah, we started out actually working, I think, for Pickering Cable are one of them. Rayjacks are one of them. Yeah. Shout out to Roger Lichwa. So you're at 1010 at this point, and you're still talking to your Nighthawks. It's not necessarily about sports anymore. No, no, no.

And that's the part I missed. They weren't more than the Nighthawks, because I was talking to a whole different crowd of people than sports fans. And radio's changed too, even since then. I've seen the changes when I was there where now you're either left or right. It's like the newspaper.

They're not going to hire very few left-wingers to write for the Toronto Sun. They're not going to hire right-wingers to work for the Toronto Star. You know what I'm saying? You almost become a puppet. I had people sending down stuff. When I'd go in and out of my shows, I would always bring in, like you do,

you bring in music, I'd bring in my soul in R&B, blue-eyed soul in R&B, because that's my style. I'd have the program manager sending down messages like, play something I know. But I knew my writing was on the wall when they came, when Steve Couch left and Ben Dixon came over

because he was there for a year and a half and never said a word to me. Not even, and yet it was, I had always worked hard for CFRB when they needed somebody to go out and do the mobile units, they always asked me to go because

I liked interacting with the crowd, which was important. But I knew my writing was on a wall. I knew sooner or later that, and the fact that these major corporations were gobbling up these radio stations and letting go of good people, good people. these radio stations and letting go of good people, good people. So between my youth center, which I had began,

the Spiders Web Youth Empowerment Center, and the speaking engagements and working for the government through the correctional services and that, I really didn't need radio anymore. I guess they didn't need me because uh I come in one day and they uh decided they were going to take my show off the air a show that did very very well on Sundays but I knew the right was on the wall because once Ben Dixon came in I no longer had the same deal uh and I mean that's I'm not knocking uh uh Mike was his call, and I wasn't one of the boys. It sounds like maybe you were Steve Couch's hire,

and maybe when Ben Dixon came in, because you weren't his guy, he just sort of... Yeah, well, whatever it was, I never had a chance to really talk about it to him. But, you know, my heart wasn't brilliant anymore anyhow and i think he brought that up too he said that where i i had no longer showed the passion he was probably right uh because uh i i had and i got tired of rager like i said it got to the point where either left or right wing and i'm neither i'm just me. And, you know, I thought what I brought to the air was a guy that grew up, poor, grew up seeing everything.

I mean, I didn't just come there after reading secondhand stories and books. I saw police brutality, but I saw good cops, too. I saw gang violence. I was part of it. I saw how, you know, lived in poverty racism when you live in all those things you bring to the lens or to the microphone a different perspective than some upper middle or middle class person with a college degree that has never lived the way i have and i i i'm just getting some heated arguments on the phone with people when they would deny uh deny something they never lived.

And it just got to the point where I got tired of it. And now I think I'm mostly just passionate about turning people's minds. Because what you think controls your future. It's how you see yourself. You must control your mind. Don't let it control you. You know, Spider, even this conversation, as we wrap up here, hearing your story here

over the, whatever, 80 minutes we've been chatting, like, it sounds like when you have that conversation with Muhammad Ali, and he's like, you know, so inspirational in terms of, you know, you've got to chase this goal of radio, and you're, you know, you go back to school, you do very well, and then you find yourself in radio, and you're you know you go back to school you do very well and then you find yourself in radio and you parlay that to the fan 590 then you get a better offer at 640

and then you go to 1010 you did it man like step back pat yourself on the back you did it you that's three of our biggest stuff on the back it's already sore no. No, you're right. You know what I have a saying. My father used to tell me this all the time, and this is true. Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die. In other words, in order to become what you want in life, two things have to happen. First of all, you have to have a game plan, and secondly, you've got to be willing to make the sacrifices it takes. Otherwise, you're not going to make it. And third, and've got to be willing to make the sacrifices it takes. Otherwise, you're not going to make it. And third, and this is so important, Mike, nobody's born extraordinary.

People become extraordinary. The people we look up to, Austin Matthews, it don't matter, Wayne Gretzky, it doesn't matter who they are. Anyone who becomes extraordinary, they become extraordinary through an extraordinary effort. They're not born extraordinary. And this is what I try to tell people. They're willing to sacrifice our youth. And that's the important thing. If you're not, don't waste my time or your time. And that brings us to the end of our 1027th show. You can follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Toronto Mike. Spider Jones is at Spider underscore Jones Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery Are at Great Lakes Beer Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta Sticker U is at Sticker U Ridley Funeral Home They're at Ridley FH

And Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana underscore. See you tomorrow when my special guest in the backyard is Mike Wilner. And we'll be setting you up for your 2022 Blue Jays season. See you then. See you then. frozen green Well you've been under my skin for more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears

And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you But I'm a much better man for having known you Oh, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and green

Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Wants me to date And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy and green