Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Spirit of the West: Toronto Mike'd #1129

Episode Date: October 14, 2022

In this 1129th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike talks to Spirit of the West drummer and manager Vince Ditrich about the band, the late great John Mann, and his new book, The Vicar's Knickers. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Yes, We Are Open, The Advantaged Investor, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

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Guaranteed. Joining me today, making his Toronto Mike debut, is the drummer and manager for Spirit of the West, Vince Dittrich. Vince, welcome to Toronto Mike. Hello, it's good to see you. Whereabouts are you in the, in the world as we talk right now? I'm on Vancouver Island in a little town called Manus Bay,

which is the, the Riviera of the boondocks. It sounds lovely. It's pretty nice. Yeah. And what kind of weather are you getting these days? It's a drought. The first drought that I

remember ever happening here. Apparently there was one in 1986. But it has not rained for over 100 days. Wow. Astounding. Wow. I would have lost a lot of money in a bar bet if you had bet me that.

Oh, you and me both. I only know it because I'm living it. Well, that's sort of scary, I'm going to say. That's a little frightening to hear about that kind of drought on Vancouver Island. But I'm glad that you zoomed in today. I wasn't

going to make you come to the Toronto Mike studio. It would be an awful long trek for you. Bit of a trek, yeah. Especially on foot, you know. Oh, yeah. I'll see you next month. Okay. Now, we are going to spend, Vince,

we're going to spend some time talking about Spirit of the West. That's a band that you play drums for, but you also manage Spirit of the West, right? Yes, I did. Yeah. Okay, so we're going to talk. I want to let the listenership know, because I got so many questions about Spirit of the West,

and we're going to walk through that. But let the listenership know, because I got so many questions about Spirit of the West, and we're going to walk through that. But I want to point out off the top, and we'll dive into this in a little more detail near the end of our conversation. But you're also quite the author. You have a new book out there. Tell me about your book. I have some questions about your writing later in this episode.

But tell me a little bit about the Misadventures of Tony Vicar series. Well, after Spirit of the West retired, because John passed away, I knew I needed to do something that was creative, and so I began writing. I had been a writer all my life, but not a serious and published author, except for magazine articles and mostly things to do with music and drumming, a few humor things, but not a ton of stuff. But I wrote a book just to keep myself sane, and then I shopped it around, and I managed to find a deal.

And I found a deal with Dundurn Press of Toronto, the fine folks at Dundurn. I know them well. I've read several books lately from Dundurn Press. Very good. It's a number one Canadian independent, so it's pretty impressive. A small organization that seems to have mushroomed quickly

in the last two years. Must be my doing. It's you and I think David McPherson, I want to say, wrote it. Yeah. It's you both, the tag team in that one. Yeah. I did a couple of quotes for David McPherson's book and then I helped him do his launch and he's a lovely guy.

Yeah. And just to shout out David, who's also an FOTM and you're now an FOTM, Vince, which means friend of Toronto Mike, but he's got both the Horseshoe Tavern book but he also has the Massey Hall book so yeah we did a nice launch zoom like this for the launch of his Massey Hall

book and it was very fun nice so you it's the Liquor Vicar right that's the first one the first one the Liquor Vicar, right? That's the first one. Yeah, here, let me just, the first one, the Liquor Vicar. Nice. And it's follow-up, which came out just a few weeks ago,

The Vicar's Knickers. Love that title, The Vicar's Knickers. Well, that's the name of the pub that the Liquor Vicar opens up. Okay. Yeah, he's a failed musician with dreams of stardom as they all are as we all are you know music is uh they could i guess it's a calling but it's also it can become a sickness you just can't let it go and he's got some misadventures attached and attendant to that. So this new chapter pun intended, this new chapter

of your life where you're writing these books and again I'm going to have some comments at the end of this conversation of people who are loving the misadventures of Tony Vicar but like I'm wondering were you always, you said you were always writing,

so this was just like a natural next chapter when Spirit of the West retired, so to speak. Yeah. I didn't want to be that cliche guy who always claimed, oh, when I finish this career, I'm going to move along to writing. You know, you hear that all the time. And serious writers just gag when they hear that. But I just didn't have time or enough life experience or many other things required to write at the time that I was on the road all the time. So we lived in a tour bus for a long time.

All right. So let's get. sorry, go ahead. Yeah. And, and, and so, uh, but yes, I, I've been intending to write a book probably from grade four age 11. Okay. And you did it. I did it. And, uh, you know, I remember just sitting here in the office and looking up at the wall and going, well, if I'm ever going to write a book, now's the time. It's now or never. Well, congrats, man. I mean, I'm always impressed when I can read a book.

So good on you. You and me both. Yeah, people ask me what I read, and I said, I don't know. I'm just writing them now. I'm not reading. Right, right. And we are going to touch on this again later in the chat, but I want to read some some lovely notes so i basically

on twitter i said hey i got vince coming on we're going to talk spirit of the west i said uh you have any questions and i'm going to just read them here and we're going to talk about it but i'll give you glib answers if you give me glib answers i'll shake my fist at you. I'll be Vince. No way, you'll get off my lawn. Give me better answers, Vince. Okay, so Mike from Kdub writes in, looking forward to this episode. I've been a Spirit of the West fan since 1991 when they opened

for Melissa Etheridge at the CNE. I even wrote a cheesy fan letter back then and got a nice promo photo in return. So, nice note from Mike from Kdub. I've got more stuff from Mike later. He wrote me this amazing email. I should flip it to you. Okay.

Now that I have your email, I think I will actually send it over. Julia writes in, I was at a very early show in a park at a summer fair when they were little known. Then at their last show at Massey Hall, just before man died,

John man died. Amazing performance. Both times, the energy and love at Massey Hall were electric, much loved band. Okay. So I know you want to react to that, but I'm going to set you up for,

I want to dive in very deep there. Lisa writes in big love for these guys. Missing John. a lot of notes i'll be sprinkling in through the convo but let's start by getting to know like how do you when do you come into the band because you're not a founding member so like give me a sense of your musical life before spirit of the west and then let us know when you joined the band and how you joined the band. Well, I come from

a musical family, so I'm third generation barn dance musician. My dad was a military bandmaster for a while. He had his own little wedding combo and I became his drummer when I was a very, very little boy. I started with his

band getting money at age six wow so yeah and and I did that for a long time then I started doing you know stuff with people my own age and made a record you know made a 45 and it went on the local charts and and the fire started and I eventually moved to Vancouver and really got serious in about 1986 and from from there I just met all the guys that I'm still friends with today and you know the like Pat Stewart and Craig Northey and Doug Elliott all these they were all my my best buddies and we kind of came up as a as a class or as, you know, just a clump of guys who all supported each other.

And I don't know, we just did a lot of things. The whole idea was to play as much music as he could as often as he could. So if you could work seven days a week, you were happy. You know, I remember one day I did a children's record in the morning. I went and did some sort of a performance in the afternoon, and then in the evening I did a heavy metal record at another studio. And that was one of the best days of my youth. Wow. Great range.

I had to climb a fence one time to get over into a place, snare drum and cymbals under my arm, climbing a fence to work on a Maymoor record. You know, these are the adventures that you look back on and you go, what the hell was wrong with me? But it was really fun. So how do you end up in Spirit of the West? They called me.

What had happened was they had been in england and they had been opening for the wonder stuff in in britain and uh they just didn't feel they had enough muscle to hit the back of the room you know all uh stringed acoustic instruments mostly and it just and john leaping about in his energetic fashion but he was just beating his pan out he could not command them the way he wanted to so um they were very good friends with paul hyde of the paolas and rock and hide right and and they he had even produced one of one of the early spirit records um so i was playing with him at that time and they they asked him, who should we get to drum? We feel like we need a drummer.

And he said, well, you should use my guy. And they said, oh, can we come down and see him? And then, you know, like Paul Hyde's band at the time, we were very, very good. There's no holds barred, extremely muscular, very, very powerful group. And they just sat there with their eyes open going, wow, what would we do with this guy with our flutes and our bouzoukis? But I came in and I played at a kind of an audition rehearsal type of situation. And I changed up the sound so that it suited that more acoustic tone, and they seemed to like me.

And so 30-some years later, I was still there. All right. Kind of motoring that boat. Well, okay. As you know, I've got follow-up questions, Vince. But now that we've got you in the band. So Mike G. writes in, and I love this question. Can Vince talk about the pushback the band got from their traditional fan base

when they brought in a drummer? And he goes, probably not Dylan goes electric level flack. But it was quite a change for a lot of fans. I think there was a lot. And I remember hearing mumbling over in the corner, but I just didn't give a rat's behind. They brought me in. They told me exactly what they wanted me to accomplish by being there,

you know, a really, really muscular sound with a lot more options, musical options. And I saw this group where I could be, I could play standard rock drums or I could do anything, anything at all. There were no rules. There were no expectations, no limitations. I thought, it's perfect. I'm just going to do it.

And if anybody doesn't like it, I don't care. I just didn't care. And that's, I want to make this episode so yes the spirit of the west fans will enjoy this but I'm also going to try to introduce people who might they only know maybe Home for a Rest or something and they're like

you know so like to be clear you didn't replace a drummer who quit the band who got fired like there's literally no drummer in this band until you show up in 1989 they did use uh just before like months before i became a permanent member they had recorded saved this house and i think they used good old jerry adolph on home progress and he was just in the studio it's too bad that uh they weren't looking for the drummer permanently at that point because

that would be me for sure but he's a wonderful he was like the number one guy in town at the time and uh you know the producer just said let's get a drummer get on the phone find somebody he came in and he did a couple of tracks brilliantly right right so would you mind name checking uh your fellow members of spirit of the West when you join in 1989? Who's joining you in that band? Well, John Mann, Jeff Kelly, Hugh McMillan, and Linda McRae. Okay. time it had become a quartet with linda being at it on accordion and bass and then i came aboard with all my claptrap and my noise and you so the first album that you perform on is go figure right in 1991 yeah yeah okay so let's give a sense again uh and well you know you're

drumming for the band i got questions about about the band, like from Go Figure forward. And then of course, we're going to find out how you become manager of Spirit of the West. But can you give us a sense of the popularity? Where is Spirit of the West at? Like in terms of the Canadian rock zeitgeist, you know, you mentioned Save This House.

That sure was played to heck on CFNY 102.1.1 the edge in my neck oh yeah yeah so just give us a sense of like what where is this band at when you join it um i think it was right on the cusp of that great big canadian movement that was just starting to bear fruit with Blue Rodeo and The Hip and Odds. You know, a bunch of us, we were of the same age, basically, you know, born sort of early 60s. And we just had a real vision. And I don't know, we weren't exchanging notes, that's for sure. We were just doing what we did.

But it all had a kind of a vibe, and it held together. And it was very identifiably Canadian, and not that identifiably Canadian that used to be in the 60s and 70s, which was just cheap knockoff Americana. Just bad. Well, weak, diluted. Right. It was really Well, weak, diluted. Right. It was really strong, proud Canadian.

And no, we didn't have any team meetings about that. We just, that's how we felt. I mean, you want to hear something corny. Yeah. When we went to Europe, you know how people say, oh, well, we always act like ambassadors for our country when we're abroad. We did.

We were so conscious of being Canadian that we had to be really good citizens when we were in other countries. We didn't talk about it. We just knew we had to. But I remember sitting there one time in Germany going, how did we come to this decision that we're going to be like this in other countries? And we just did without ever having uttered a syllable about it.

You know, it's funny you talk about, you know, what the people thought of Canadian music back in the day. So I was born in the mid 70s, which puts me in my late 40s right now. And I will tell you straight up, Vince, my favorite genre or subgenre, whatever you want to call it, is what I call 90s can-con alt-rock, okay? Like, give me the tragically hip spirit of the West. Give me some Sloan. Give me some Rusty, you know? Give me some Odds. Like, this is my jam.

But when I hear old, like, baby boomers and older Canadians talk about what they grew up with, it's like everything before the Guess Who was just embarrassing and schlocky and terrible so it's it's almost strange to me to hear oh like we weren't proud of our homegrown music back in the you know the 60s like it's great the 90s stuff i just think it's fantastic i'm not exactly sure what propelled it but there was a confidence in the country. I think, you know, a critical mass of population, a realization. I mean, a lot of traveling. Traveling became just so normalized, you know, traveling everywhere.

And Canadians would come back and go, why are we so humble? You know, we're great. Yeah. We've got lots to talk about. And the U S is not the only country that has history. Uh, you know, so do you think,

I don't know, did much music play a role at all? I'm just trying to think of like, what happened that suddenly, you know, this, you know, you guys come out in the late eighties,

but you're, you're, you're banging out hits in the nineties and this like heyday, you know, our lady piece, like I could run down like 20 great bands pumping out these great, you're banging out hits in the 90s. And this heyday, Our Lady Peace, I could run down 20 great bands pumping out these great tracks, rock tracks, alt-rock, if you will, in the 90s. What is it?

Well, I mean, all you need is one great group to open a door, kick the door in, and then a bunch of people just come behind them. It's like an assault squad. Okay, who is the one then? Who is the one great group who kicked that door down? I'm just trying to think. That's a really good, I mean, when I was younger, before I was in Vancouver and following it,

like really, really fighting, I'm trying to think of, you know, Brian Adams was a trailblazer. Rush were trailblazers. Uh, Bruce Coburn was becoming a trailblazer. Um, who else, who else? Yeah. Those are the guys, those are the guys at the top. Right. And then, you know, then a little later you get you know there's the lower levels and and they come up through the ranks and you get your katie langs and all the amazing uh female vocalists that ended up getting grammys that are canucks sarah mclaughlin i mean we could run down yeah shania twain absolutely let's Let's not forget Celine Dion over in Quebec. Diana, Diana Kroll,

my neighbor. Wow. Okay. Does Elvis Costello ever drop by for coffee or tea? I don't even know if they're still in the news, but they were here for a long time. Right. Right.

Yeah. One of their many far flung properties, but I did bump into them a couple of times. Wow. Nice. I'm going to ask you about, of course, in more detail later in this chat,

we're going to talk about the Tragically Hip, but I want to talk about another great Canadian band from the 90s and I'm going to turn to Ed Flynn who wrote in, They must have loved playing Newfoundland because Newfoundland loved them. Early 90s, we saw Great Big Sea

open for them at Memorial Stadium. A year or two later, we saw them play the old Thompson Student Centre, aka TSC, at Munn? M-U-N, I guess, at Munn? I'm not sure what M-U-N means, but fun times, Ed says. So, tell me a little bit

maybe about playing with the great big C and playing out east. There's a special feeling in the air when you get off the plane in Newfoundland that is the most special place in Canada and you know I live on Vancouver Island which is the second most special place in Canada but I don't know there's something very very particular and lovable and it's just special for lack of a better word at this moment. The people and the place are just magnificent,

and you can be loved for simply being a characterful musician. I mean, that's not really a thing anywhere else. You've got to have gold records and you have to have fame and you have to have money and success and recognizance in the rest of the world. But in Newfoundland, you just got to be a really cool musician with a story and they like you. And of course, we were pretty characterful guys and we played their kind of music and we tipped our hat to their influence on us. And so they began to love us. And I've been there so many times now i've

made friends with so many of the musicians and great big c of course became good buddies and you know they opened for us a couple of times and it wasn't long before we were opening for them and you could see it happening because they're the most charming guys oh my sweet lord you know lovely and doyle is impossible to resist and he's the hardest working man in show business he's the james brown of celtic music wow i just saw him open for the his band now that uh sadly great big c is no more now that's the uh alan doyle band i saw them open for blue rodeo at uh budweiser stage here not long ago. Yeah, there's a deep connection there between Alan and Blue Rodeo and us and Blue Rodeo.

That's because of Chimmy. Let me ask you about your Celtic sound, okay? Because, you know, for the longest time, when you guys first were breaking, and I mentioned I'd hear you on CFNY, Spirit of the West, and, you know, different songs. We'll get into that Home for Rest in a minute. But, you know, it always sounded like you guys were from the East Coast.

Like, I'm like, wait, wait, they're from the West Coast? They sound like they're from Cape Breton or something. It really, that Celtic sound is very East Coast to my ears. Well, it's more than East Coast. Go farther east than that. I mean, it's Irish and Scottish. And, I mean jeffrey kelly was actually born in scotland and john's family uh are all scottish so that was in their soul

right and then when i get a hugh mcmillan i mean there's a mick there he he's as scottish as they come musically and he understands that stuff with such intense uh depth and emotion and he's a magical musician and then i came aboard you know they thought i was just a rock drummer but in fact my my entire background was based on highland rudiments you know so i fit in like like crazy you know i could do all those patterns i understood the tunes and the jigs and the reels and the strath space. This was all just instinctively easy for me. So it really worked. And it sounded, you know, like East Canadian music,

but really what we were doing was blending it with pop music, which I think was probably first done by Fairport Convention. And I think more than anything, we were kind of like a Canadian version of Fairport Convention. And then we took it a few steps beyond Fairport. In the timelines of you joining the band, I'm trying to be sensitive to what you, you know, you were there for, what you weren't there for. But regardless, Save This House, this is before you joined the band, of course, right? Yep.

I was sort of joining at the time. Do you have any insight? I mean, gosh, you managed the band. Tell me anything you can about Save This House. That's one of the songs that I received the most questions about. I'm not worried, it's a million miles away Yeah, I saw the news Happens every day Some crunk-eyed look-alike Numb from what he's reading

Wake me up, wake me up It's one of us that's screaming Save this house Save this house Save this house Save this house Save this house Save this house Party's gotta end

Welcome mat's worn out and the roof will never mend The furniture's on fire, this house a disgrace Someone change the life before we trash this place Save this house Save this house Save this house Save this house Save this house I'm not worried It's a million miles away

Yeah, I saw the news Happened yesterday So, crunk-eyed Lookalike Not from what he read Wake me up Wake me up It's one of us

That's dead Save this house Save this house John and Jeff tell a funny story about the song itself. They had been asked to write a song on the radio. I can't remember the name of the show, but it was a CBC radio show where they get these songwriters to come and just create a song on air, live. So everybody listening is going, oh, that's what the songwriting process is like. How magical.

And they both understood what they had to do, and they said, that's ridiculous. We can't do that. It'll take us hours. It's going to be nonsensical. So they wrote the song before and then pretended to write it on air, and they made a good job of it because everybody went, oh, isn't that fascinating? But, I mean, clearly it's an environmental song. And very early on, that kind of set some of the tone of what we would do,

the political nature of the lyrics, and particularly Johnny's stance publicly. Well, you said the P word there, but I'm going to save that because I want to talk about the one Spirit of the West song that I got the most notes about. So I'll run down the notes, Then you'll tell me everything you can. And I believe you were there this time. So you can speak with more authority. Infinitus Capital wrote in,

how did they come up with Home for a Rest? It's probably the most played last call bar song in Canadian history. And then Jerry the Garbage Man, he writes in, are they aware that they almost broke the floors at Key Tabala during Home for Arrest? That was revealed in a Cottage Life article. Please, what can you tell me about this song? I think every Gen X Canadian listening to us right now,

and there are thousands listening, Home for Arrest is an anthem of sorts. You'll have to excuse me I am not at my best I've been gone for a month I've been drunk since I left These so-called vacations Will soon be my death. I'm so sick from the drink, I need home for a rest.

We arrived in December and London was cold. We stayed in the bars, a long charing crossroad. We never saw nothing but grass tops and oak, kept a shine on the bar with the sleeves of our coats, you'll have to excuse me, I'm not at my best, I've been gone for a week, I've been drunk since I left and these so-called vacations will soon be my death, I'm so sick sick from the dream I need home for a rest Take me home Houston Station, the train journey north

In the bumpy car We lurched back and forth Past old crooked dives Through Yorkshire's green fields We were flung into debt as the train didn't reel You'll have to excuse me, I'm not at my best I've been gone for a week, I've been drunk since I left And these so-called vacations will soon be my death

I'm so sick from the drink, I need home for the rest Take me home By the light of the moon, she drifts through the streets A rare old perfume, so seductive and sweet She teases and flirts as the pubs all close down, then walk us on home and deny us around You'll have to excuse me, I'm mad at my best, I've been gone for a month, I've been drunk since I left And these so-called vacations will soon be my death, I'm so sick from the drink, I need home for the rest Take me home! The gas heater's empty, it's down past the tomb

The spirits we drank, and a ghost in the room I'm knackered again Come on sleep, take me soon And don't lift up my head Till the twelve bells at noon You'll have to excuse me I'm mad at my best I've been gone for a month I've been drunk since I left it

These so-called vacations Will soon be my death I'm so sick from my drinks I need home for a rest Tag me! Thank you. Well, I'm aware of that. Good thing I enjoy it because, you know, can you imagine being saddled with a song that popular that you didn't, didn't like, like, like some Disney song? No, not again. It, the Bala thing is, is real.

It was a new year's Eve show there. We, we were, we had to stop the show while I think the guy that promoted us, his name was Steve Butler, if, if I'm correct. And he had to go underneath the key and try and buttress the floor. It was, it was madness. It was absolute madness. And we broke almost broke the floor in Quebec city upstairs in a club, a club Dote, I think it was called. Wow.

And, yeah, they made a stop, made a stop and cleared the floor and said, the place is going to collapse. Can you just play waltzes, ballads? You know, I was like, sorry about that. And I think there was one other place that we endangered with the bouncy, bouncy, you know. one other place that we endangered with the bouncy bouncy you know um the the song was born of a tour that was cancelled so the boys went over to do a tour and it got cancelled when they got to britain so they just spent two weeks drinking morning noon and night smoking cigarettes and

and drinking pints and uh apparently johnny came back and he gained like 10 pounds just from drinking so much. And that's, we need home for a rest. So literally, John needed to go home for a rest. Yeah, yeah, because it was just like, you know. And this is when they wore a younger man's cloth, if you will, still in their 20s. So many, like I mentioned, Gen X Canadians. And partly that's because many of us were going to university in the mid-90s. And that's the frosh anthem, if you will, is Home for a Rest by Spirit of the West.

Oh, I know. I know it well. I mean, everybody, quite often now, you know, people who weren't fans, you'll say, oh, I played for a group called Spirit of the West. And I go, hmm, I don't know who that is. And I'll say, Home for a Rest. Oh, I know that song. I remember such and such a frosh event, as you say. It's always that.

Or My Sister's Wedding. Right. Last call. Uncle Pete took off his pants to that song. Well, thank you. I mean, so many Canadians just want to say thank you for the memories. And now that I think about it, I've had this conversation

with the guys from Sloan and the guys from Rusty and all these cats about their big jam. So to my ears when I hear Home for Rest, I just hear a kick-ass alt-rock song from the 90s. I don't hear Canadiana at play. I just hear a great song in my-rock song from the 90s. I don't hear Canadiana at play. I just hear a great song in my ears, but my ears were born and raised in Toronto, so maybe

I don't know what I'm missing or whatever. But why is Home for a Rest not the frosh anthem for all the American universities and colleges? What are they missing? Well, some of it is the Celtic influence. The other thing is that it was just not released on an American label.

It might well have done just as well, possibly, if it was released on a big American label, but we were a Canadian domestic signing. So the publicity and promotion was for Canada only, and some European. Well, that's unfortunate. I just think that many, many people missed out. It's the business.

That's a separate conversation, right? That is, yeah. That's a dark and cynical conversation that I just don't want to go there. I want to remember everything fondly. Okay. Well, then let me read another great question from another Mike. What's your favorite Canadian show or venue? Maybe that's two questions right there.

What's your favorite Spirit of the West show that you remember, and what's your favorite venue that you guys have ever played? Oh, boy. That's a tough one. Yeah, well, I mean, 30 years of shows right there, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. So while you noodle it, I'll finish Mike's question, because he says the Niagara winery shows on a warm summer night

were pretty awesome, he says. They were pretty awesome, lots of fun. As you might imagine, being that we were at the Jackson Triggs winery, we were welcome to have wine. Shocking. Yeah, that lubricated the shows quite a bit. And they were always fun. They felt like they treated us like royalty and such good hosts.

And the equipment and the PA and the treatment was all top grade. And so it kind of felt like a command performance there and, uh, and low pressure and always a good weather. And I don't know, I've enjoyed those shows a lot. And then, you know, you have a glass of wine or two before a show, which is for me, not normal. And I'd kind of go, you know, and I start bringing people up from the audience and there was a little more Tom foolery at those shows.

Right, right. So you're going to stick with that one or is it any others pop into mind? Oh, there's lots. I really enjoyed, it wasn't musically satisfying, but it was an amazing experience. It was a show with The Hip at, oh, what is that big venue in Barrie? Oh, Molson Park. Molson Park, thank you.

There were 55,000 people. That's another roadside attraction in 95. Oh, no, was it 95? That sounds right, 95. Yeah. Yeah, so 55,000 people. I'd never played to 55,000 people before. You couldn't even see beyond 5,000.

It was just a sea. It was amazing. Yeah. And, you know, to be able to have done a show of that magnitude, it felt like an accomplishment in life, you know? And it was fascinating to watch the audience and to watch the group. And they were such old hands at that kind of very big show it was it was very educational to watch how they dealt with it because i know we got out there and we're athletic as simone biles you know jumping around

leaping and they they definitely were not they were, they let the equipment do the work for them, and they just did their show, and I was impressed. It was fun. Also, the first night we recorded with the Vancouver Symphony, that was a very, very big show. I think that's probably the only time I've been nervous in my whole musical career because we were playing at home with a symphony and we had no experience really. We were recording an album, a live album, and we were recording a TV special all in the same show.

So there's some pressure and there was some really great moments and it sounded great. You did bring up the, another roadside attraction in 95 when you toured with the hip and Robin writes in. So Robin writes in at another roadside attraction in high river in 1995. Oh yeah. So I'll just read hers,

but I want to hear about it because she says, Oh, I think it's a, she Robin's one of those those names I do not know. Could be any gender. A storm moved in between bands and the crowds got wet. The crowd got wet and miserable, but Spirit of the West took the stage, got everyone moving and made it a party. Turned the mood around fully and completely.

Ah, nicely written. Yeah, well, I mean, that was our job. I got to say, we never phoned in one show in 33 years, not once. And we went out there and went, okay, well, we're playing with some of these magnificent bands, you know. We're just this bunch of goofballs from the west coast we got to make this good so we just went on rain be damned and we made it as good as we could and i do remember that because it was yet another outdoor show on that tour where it was rainy and everybody got peed on uh throughout

the afternoon until the hip came on and then the rain stopped. And the hip never once got rained on. What were the guys like? How did they treat you? The tragically hip. And then I'm specifically curious about any, any stories or memories of, you know, playing with Gore Downey. Oh, they were monsters. Terrible men. I don't believe you. They were the nicest, just really humble, professional, thoughtful. Yeah, they were really good guys.

Like Greg Biggsy, another group of guys who worked really hard for their fame. And you don't begrudge them their fame because you look around and you go, wow, look at what they do. Look at what they put together. Look at how pro they are and how thoughtful, forethoughtful. And, you know, they treated everybody well. And they would, you know, they'd have some group that they just liked that was early on in the bill, you know, early on in the day. Right. Unknown to everybody.

And they would get out there, all of them be standing side stage, watching these guys and supporting them from side stage. And I mean, they took what they did very seriously and they were really normal, thoroughly normal guys, which, you know, Canadian. Well, you know, they're humble, normal guys because many of them still live in Kingston. That's sort of a sign. You hear about some Canadian alt-rock

singers, songwriters who end up, they move to LA or whatever and there's no judgment here except it's kind of nice that they stayed here. Well, it's a couple of things. They're normal and they like their family and they like their, they like their family and they like being interconnected like that. But also, they were able to stay here

because they made such a great success of it. They didn't have to go to LA to start to write with other people to get interconnected into a larger thing. They just, they never had to. They were lucky and they were smart and you know and they were talented you uh before you arrived in the band spirit of the west there was uh the song political was on was on an early album but it was also on uh go figure like can you help me out so how did political which by the way i'll just declare for the record is my all-time favorite spirit of the west song is political but uh there's a lot of great jams but that one still bounces around my head on a regular basis but go figure has a version of political on it like how did it come back and what can you

remember about that Put right down by myself And I feel what she thought she found Pulled hard in two directions By a desire to learn My old affections I tried to share my world with you You could not seem to tolerate The people I had grown to love They sank under your scrutiny

Became the ones you hate Everything, everything With you and me had to be so political Everything, everything With you and me had to be so political As you can hear, I'll Zoom when necessary, but not necessarily Zoom. Ideally, all my guests are in person

because then I give them fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. For my money, that's the only craft brewery in this province that I'll patronize. They're available in LCBOs across this fine province. Palma Pasta. They're hosting us for TMLX 11, the first Saturday of December at 12 noon at Palma's Kitchen. Every guest in this studio leaves with a large lasagna. Delicious. I have a Sticker You sticker. It's a Toronto Mike sticker,

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I think that it was a favorite of the record company. And it probably, it was probably one of the reasons that they signed the group. And so their A&R representative came to the studio when we were recording uh go figure and um they said geez we'd really like to hear a version of uh political with this new lineup with the drums and everything and uh like a rockier version a rockier version that we could put on the radio because they really thought that song had potential. And I remember John and Jeff going, oh, jeez, I don't know.

You know, going over old ground like that, it doesn't feel right. But eventually they got convinced or coerced or whatever you want to call it. And we did a version. But none of us ever really, really loved that recorded version. We thought it was good, but what we ended up doing was a live. We did a blended version of the old one and the new one. And I think that's really what we should have ended up doing on the recording. But, you know, when you're such a new lineup and not everybody knows everybody inside out i'd only been you know around for a

few months and um we did things instantaneously as a team when we were writing and arranging uh later on that took a while you know so early on it was like oh you want to try this no you know i'd be thinking this isn't going to work but i gotta try but later on i wouldn't have to say this isn't going to work but i gotta try because we had been so experienced we just thought that we know that so i think our version of political was was good but it could have it could have kept more of the old version for my taste for my personal taste no very interesting so thank you for sharing that and just to let the listenership know that that original version of political is on labor day yeah if uh people are hunting that down okay now i'm gonna ask you about one more jam and then i

gotta find out how the heck you end up managing spirit of the west but the last jam i want to ask you about is actually what i was not majorly surprised, but mildly surprised that this is actually your biggest hit. And it's a big radio jam. Everybody knows it and loves it. But can you tell me anything about, and if Venice is sinking off of Facelift? Faithlift. Faithlift. Yeah. You know what? I would say I'd fix that in post, but no, I'm going to let that stick in there. Oh, let that go, because that's what Jeff Kelly said when he suggested the name. He said, this is going to make all the radio people lose their minds.

It is hard to say. Faith Lift. What are you guys doing to me? Okay, Faith Lift. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. So I've seen it with my own two eyes now. Jesus hangs behind the glass

Above the nation doors Seen it with my own two eyes now. Jesus hangs behind the glass Above Venetian doors His window box boasts Crimson flowers fresh cut the day But before and you couldn't find a smile If you nailed it to his face But Jesus Christ Hangs his head with grace And if Venice is sinking

I'm going under Cause beauty's religion And it's christened me with wonder They come in bent back Creaking across across the floor, all dressed in black. Candles thick as pillars, you can buy one off the floor. And the ceiling's painted gold, and Mary's hair is red. The old come here to kiss their dead And if Venice is sinking I'm going under

It's beauty's religion And it's prison me with wonder We made love upon a bed A side down to the floor, in a room that had a postcard on the door. Of Marini's little man, with an erection on a horse. On a horse It always leaves me laughing Leaves me feeling that of course it Venice is sinking I'm going under

It's beauty's religion And it's christened me with wonder And it's Venice is sinking I'm going under Beauty's religion Listen me with wonder Thank you. It came in, it started, I think that started as a poem. John brought in a piece of poem and he had a piece of poetry

and he had a proto-melody, which was quite Gothic sounding, quite old English. And the van is sinking and and this is what it sounded like and we went well it's interesting but it sounds like henry the eighth wrote it so i wonder what we could do and we came up with this kind of uh oompa slow oompa feel and john altered the melody and um then it became that song and we thought you know this sounds like a real sing-along and uh let's throw that in amongst all this other more alternative sounding heavier rock stuff and it'll be a real uh a palate cleanser almost.

And the rest is history. Yeah, it really worked out well, and we got a whole bunch of our friends to come by. While we were recording Under the Gun, we were almost out of time, and we got about, I'd say, 25, 30 people to come in and sing the background vocals, the gang vocals in the outro choruses. And I just remember standing surrounded by our buddies.

I was giving the people the pitch with my hand and singing the song, and they were singing back to me, and they gave us that gang vocal. And, you know, it was so quick. They came in, okay, ready, headphones, let's go. And they wrote their names on a piece of paper so we could credit them, and they left their names on a piece of paper so we could credit them and they would laugh and moved along it was really uh it was a fun intense moment amazing now how do you vince how do you become the band's manager and when do you become the band's manager how did that come to be um i'm trying to think of the time it would have been somewhere around 2000 when we were without manager.

And we were really, there were a few things that were happening that were so highly disorganized that I instinctively knew if somebody didn't grab the reins, we were just going to drive into a wall. So I volunteered my services, but I had been managing other groups already so i i knew what to do knew how to do it and uh it seemed to work out very nicely because i knew the needs of everybody the evolving needs and uh that was sort of past the time when we would go out and do six weeks worth of touring it was more uh three days four days fly in fly out and so i had to deal with those logistics and the planning surrounding that and i i had a really good um relationship with our agent and uh i just built on that and turned us into quite the little machine quite the tight-knit little machine and you'd uh you'd manage spirit of the west until you as you said off the top until it's

a disbandment if you will in 2016 yeah i'll call it our retirement yeah our forced retirement i was i was dying john was dying jeffrey was not dying but he was intermittently extremely sick, Crohn's disease. I had to get a kidney transplant. So I was really, really sick. The last two shows, I made it to the last two shows at the Commodore, but I had to check myself out of the hospital to get there. And I just barely made it through. How are you doing on that front? I was going to ask you because, of course, you're a kidney failure.

How are you feeling these days? I'm feeling great. I'm exercising like a madman. I'm trying to keep my weight down. I'm doing well enough that they're reducing the amount of meds that I have to take. I was on pharmaceuticals by the handful, and it was unpleasant. pharmaceuticals by the handful, and it was unpleasant. All right.

Now, speaking of unpleasant, I hate that. But if you don't mind, just for a moment, we're going to talk about John because I got so many lovely notes. I just want to read them to you. Well, that's not unpleasant. It's just a little bit of sadness. It's sad because I get very emotional when I think of John and when I think of Gord, actually. These are the two musicians

because so young, so full of, seemingly full of life and then it just, out of their control, it all ends way too early. But let me just read these notes to you and then we'll talk about John. Jay Lamb writes in, really saddened about John Mann's early death from Alzheimer's. Saw the

documentary about him at Hot Docs Festival years ago. Saw the love that his wife and he had for each other despite the cruelty of the disease, stealing time from them. And then Dwight writes in, John Mann was one of my favorite artists of the 90s, followed his acting roles as well. Rest in peace. I look forward to hearing this. And then Allison Green writes in, I love Spirit of the West and considered John Mann a friend. So talented, funny, smart, great stories, amazing songs.

We started a house concert at my friend's house and John was first to play it. And he eventually played the house 33 times. Please share some memories of John Mann and maybe tell us a little bit about how he announced that he was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's and then how you were able to complete

that final tour there. I think I know Allison, by the way. Okay. So Allison's listening. You can say hi. She's definitely listening. Hi, Allison. I think she's my Facebook friend, if it's the same Allison. It's gotta be. It's gotta be. It's gotta be.

John, we thought early on that John was suffering from some anxiety because he was really getting doubtful and forgetful and even occasionally gapped on lyrics,

which he never did before. He would set something down and couldn't find it. He was constantly concerned about having lost things or having had things stolen from him. And I was watching all of this over a period of years and going, huh, that's a lot of anxiety anxiety I wonder what's going on and um we had one actually a series of shows where he was becoming increasingly um well he just couldn't remember anything frankly is, is what was happening. And I was going, this is not right. This is not right.

So I mustered the courage to call him. And I said, Johnny, your memory, it's just this is not you. This is not normal at all. Normally, you just don't make mistakes like that, like almost never make mistakes. And he said, I know, I know, I don't know what's going on, but I think I have to go and see a doctor. And he did. And, you know, the diagnosis was not good.

And it was one of those moments in life where you go, everything's going to pivot here very shortly, and we've got to band together, take care of him, in life where you go, everything's going to pivot here very shortly, and we've got to band together, take care of him, take care of ourselves, take care of, you know, the legacy, take care of everything. And it was just the slap-happy days of youth with beer and pizza and flutes and guitars. They just melted into the background and we had to get very serious about this final chapter wow and meanwhile as this has happened well as

these final shows at the comet or you're talking about happened you're literally discharging yourself from the hospital because of your you're suffering from kidney failure so yeah i was the walking dead at the time. Like, honestly, I tell this story and people kind of go, oh, well, good story, but it's actually true. I felt a presence behind me while I was playing drums on the Friday night, and I thought, I think that's the bloody Grim Reaper.

I think I might croak. Wow. Yeah, it was really spooky and really hard and emotionally trenchant let's say um i just at the end of the the last night i was a dishrag i could barely walk up the stairs to the dressing room. I was just a husk of a man to quote the odds. Right. The 2015 concert at Massey Hall, that's what was profiled in Pete McCormick's documentary, Spirit Unforgettable.

Yeah. And that's the hot dogs dog that was referenced by, who was that, Dwight? No, not Dwight. It was Jay Lamb, actually. Jay Lamb who mentioned that. And I just recommend that to everybody. Yeah. When I found out about this, I called Pete McCormick, the director and creator of the film. He's a great friend of mine. And I said, Petey, can we do something here? Can we, you know, commit to film something? Do you want to do a doco?

And he said, well, let me sit on it. And he talked to his wife. And he called me the next day and he said, yeah, I want to do it. And I want to start right now because we need to record every moment that we can because we really don't know how short this window is going to be. And he was very smart to do and he was he was very smart to do that because the window was very short and um and he worked so hard and did such a good job and then he came out and he directed the music uh documentary or the the music video of that show as

well so Massey Hall actually filmed the show and put it up on their website. So he did the whole show. They called their special from his movie. Wow. Wow. So it was a two for one kind of deal. And then you mentioned the three night run at the Commodore ballroom. That was April 15 to 17 in December.

Sorry, April 15 to 17 in, I guess that was 2016. Yes. When you have your final shows. And I mean, when I looked at some of the people who, you know, joined you on stage for that, you know, you mentioned Paul Hyde earlier. He was there.

Jim Cuddy. I just spent some time with Jim at the Woodshed. Stephen Page, Colin James, Andy Mays, Craig Northey, Kendall Carson. I mean, they're all guests of yours. Yeah. And Kendall Carson is, she's sort of a member of Spirit of the West, an unofficial member. From the first night we all met her, she was that.

She just became part of the ball club. She's just much beloved. She's amazing. She is. I just mentioned, I saw She's just much beloved. She's amazing. She is. I just mentioned I saw Alan Doyle. She was playing on Alan Doyle's band. But I also saw her, I think the first time I ever saw her was actually at Massey Hall at a blue rodeo show. Where I first saw her.

I was blown away instantly. Well, she's magnetic. She's charismatic. She's exceptionally talented. She's very, very fine on her instrument. She's a great singer too. I just recently used her on background vocals. She and I and Simon Kendall from Doug and the Slugs with low bass voice, we blend well together. And so she was doing that as well. She can do pretty well anything. Plus keep you in stitches. Very funny.

And we sadly lost John Mann again far too soon. But it was November 20, 2019. Okay, now for this country, I'm just thinking of the back-to-back kind of, you know, musical losses we suffered there. We lost John Mann. He had the alzheimer's and was saying farewell and then we learned that gore downey had a brain tumor and they

announced their final tour and then there's that final show in kingston and i think that was also 2016 what a shit what a shitty year for uh for our beloved uh can con 90s rock bands yeah i really felt the template shifting that year everything was moving away from what we felt like we had helped establish and you know the uh the new overthrows the old as they say it's normal but uh it felt i felt it in my You know, it was really difficult for me. You know, I'd lost my career. I'd lost my brother, basically. I'd lost a lot.

And I almost died all at the same time. So I went through a dark period there, very dark period. And you started writing. Yeah, that was partly therapy. Well, I got some questions related to that. Like Rita chimed it right away when she asked me like okay so i mentioned we were going to talk about spirit of the west and she's like who are you talking with i said vince and she's like ask him about his liquor vicar books which we did off the top but i want to dive in a little deeper here because mike g wants to know how is life as an author the The first Vicar book is great, and I can't wait for the next one,

which you mentioned is now out, the next one's out. Even if we must agree to disagree on the merits of the song Margaritaville. He has read the second one. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, when you're a musician, you get opinions about certain things. I know one of the pet peeves of musicians is songs that get played too often. My wife, for example, has a playlist.

She'll play it every day at cocktail hour, and she'll play that for you know four months by the third day i'm utterly sick of all the songs because i know the next song in the sequence i know the tempo i know the key before it starts i know exactly everything about it and so i can't listen to it 120 times i'm done with it even the finest song has to move along and get a little rest. So, you know, these songs that you hear over and over again, sung by drunk people for 40 years, you just go, oh. And so I used that song as an exemplar of that phenomenon in book two. And I gave it the gears. I stuck a knife in a little bit.

But, you know, cheers to him if he likes it. Fair enough. Well, so tell me, give me an idea. So The Misadventures of Tony Vicar, that's the new book. Okay, then that's, of course, Liquor Vicar is the first one. But The Misadventures of Tony Vicar. No, no. Okay, help me out.

They're both from the series. Oh, okay. The Misadventures, the mildly catastrophic misadventures, which I wanted to just call them the Licker Vicker series, but they didn't want me to call it. Dunder and Press didn't want that, so I made it as wordy and ridiculous as possible and called it mildly catastrophic,

much like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy where Arthur Dent mentions that something is a little squalid. I thought that was a very funny concatenation, so I used that. And so that's the series, and the first one is The Liquor Vicar. He gets that name because his name is Vicar, his surname is Vicar, and he ends up working at the liquor store. And second one is the vicar's knickers right that's what he names his pub my apologies oh my goodness yes the series is the the yes and yes okay so how can you know how could you know you've got a lot going on i'm home for a rest okay Okay. So tell me a little bit, if you will,

as we urge FOTMs and the listenership to get their hands on, yeah, not only the Licker Vicker, but the new one, the Vickers Nickers. In a nutshell, like what's that elevator pitch? What exactly are we to expect from this book if we haven't read it yet? You can expect a sassy, uh absurdist gallows humor as uh it's canadiana and it's it's written about a guy who's a failed musician who has no idea that his real talents lay well outside side music and uh his he finds out but uh by falling into the uh falling into the adventure more than anything because he's got his mind set on still becoming a star you know and he's too old

he's aged out he's not very talented and um just you know he has the hairstyle he had in grade 11 like so many of them do i'll read a quote here before we say goodbye. By the way, this has been fantastic, Vince. Oh, thank you. It's fun. The Vancouver Sun. So this is the big leagues here. This isn't just some blogger, anonymous blogger. The Vancouver Sun writes,

Funny, silly, lighthearted, sentimental, snarky, and often hyperactive with comic energy, Vince's novel tells a tall, quirky tale of redemption in snack-sized chapters. So they loved it at the Sun, and I'm sure everybody who checks it out will dig it. Yeah, and that's making reference to book one. And they are snack-sized chapters. I tried to keep it punchy. I wanted it really fast and funny. And I also wanted to throw in a whole bunch of Easter eggs from all my old musical friends.

And there are a number of references throughout both books where I make reference to them, and hopefully they'll read it. I love it. Like little Easter eggs, if you will. Oh, there are Easter eggs all over the place. And, uh, some of them, I get little emails going, Oh, I saw that. That was so funny. And, uh, I really, it gave me a lot of enjoyment to do that for my old pals. Cause, uh,

you know, some of us are looking around and going, okay, we're approaching 60 or some of them are in their 60s. What's next? Do I still feel good? What am I going to do? Well, for the record, I'm glad. I'm so glad you didn't die. I'm just thinking.

Yeah, I'm grandfather of three boys now. Wow. I'm really glad I didn't die because I would have missed out on a bunch of reindeer games. Yeah, without the rain because you're in a big drought there. really glad I didn't die because I would have missed out on a bunch of reindeer games. Yeah. Without the rain, because you're in a big drought there, but you know, you look like you're in good shape and you sound great and your writing's

fantastic. So this next chapter is serving you well, my friend, and we appreciate you taking the time to not only talk about the book series, but also spirit of the West, a band, the FOTM's love.

So thanks so much. And thank you. It's been really fun, and I hope we can do this again sometime. And that brings us to the end of our 1,129th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta.

Sticker U is at Sticker U. Moneris is at Moneris. Raymond James Canada are at Raymond James CDN. EPRA are at EPRA underscore Canada. Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH And Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana underscore See you all next week Cause my UI check

has just come in Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold but the snow wants me to dance

And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy and green Well you've been under my skin for more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears And I don't know what the future can hold or do For me and you

But I'm a much better man for having known you Oh, you know that's true because Everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow won't stay today And your smile is fine

and it's just like mine and it won't go away Cause everything is rosy and gray Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who, yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of grey

Cause I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah, I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you? While they're picking up trash and they're putting down roads And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can

Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn because everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow

warms me today And your smile is fine, it's just like mine And it won't go away, cause everything is rosy and gray Well, I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true

Because everything is coming up rosy and green, yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms us today, and your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away, because everything is rosy now, everything is rosy now Everything is rosy Everything is rosy and great Thank you.