Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Sports Media Roundtable: Toronto Mike'd #706

Episode Date: August 14, 2020

Mike hosts a sports media roundtable with Mark Hebscher and Fast Time Milon. Topics discussed include Steve Simmons, Bob McKenzie, Bob McCown, racism and anti-semitism in sports media, Sportsnet NHL broadcasts and more.

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pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me for this quarter's Sports Media Roundtable is the host of Hebzeon Sports, Mark Hebzer and Milan Telsania from Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. Welcome to the Backyard Studio. It's great to be back, Mike. Great to be back, Mike, for a second show in a row here now from the Backyard Studio. So if you're listening to our voices now and you do not subscribe to Hebsey on Sports, shame on you.

We just recorded the first in-person Hebsey on Sports episode since Friday the 13th of March. So that's... I like the 13th of March. So that's, uh, so Hebsey, and I don't know what your thoughts are. We're literally just coming off that episode of Hebsey on sports one 98, but it felt great to be in person with you. You sounded fantastic. Thanks. And, uh, there's so much to talk about in sports. And it's almost like if I was to say to you a year ago, by the way, in an August next year, there's going to be like five NBA. It's almost like, if I was to say to you a year ago, by the way, in August next year, there's going to be like five NBA games on a Friday afternoon, five NHL playoff games,

like just so much sports. Along with the regular, you know, the second round of whatever the PGA golf tournament is that week and, you know, the WNBA, if you happen to be interested in that. You know, very rarely do all sports kind of come together. So you've got football season hasn't started yet, but you've got baseball, hockey, and basketball all at the same time.

Two of those are into the playoffs or will be by next week. And I don't know, when do the baseball playoffs start? St. Louis Cardinals have played five games. They're supposed to play 60. How's that going to work? So it's just bizarre. And it's August, so people are going on holidays. They're in the beach or they're golfing or they're out doing stuff.

Not used to being indoors. However, nowadays you can take your device with you and sit on the end of the dock and watch the games. Are you into it though, Hebsey? Doesn't it feel like an exhibition kind of feel to it? It does. It totally does. I even looked at the NBA playoff matchups and I'm like, okay, the Raptors are playing Brooklyn and the other ones I don't care about

at this particular point. So you're right. I can't get into it until it's the finals or they're playing before live crowds or I don't know, something like that. But having said that, some of the caliber of play has been good. These are professional athletes. These guys can play. And whether it's Bo Bichette getting five hits or whether it's LeBron James in his prime or whoever the athlete is, it's still good to see top-notch competition. And joining Hebzy Man

on this quarterly sports media roundtable episode, Milan from Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. Milan, this is your theme song. That's it, another one. It keeps changing on me. I thought it would be fitting being in the vicinity of broadcast greatness here with Hebzy Man and Toronto Mike. What's this song called?

This is Classic Man. Don't ask me who sings that. I think it's a one-hit wonder as well. Jadena? Jadena, yeah. Jadena, featuring Roman... Yeah, I'm not familiar with this jam. Really?

Yeah, I know. We're the same age. I thought this would be right up your alley. We were listening to different radio stations, I think. I don't think Edge 102 played this one. But good to have you guys back. Let's just tell the people, okay? The last time we all

three got together in this... Now we're outdoors in the backyard, but we got together, ready? Just before everything changed. It was March 6th that we all three got together for that last sports media round. It was like decades ago. I know, and it was safe to be in the basement together. Can you believe it? And that was the

episode, Milan, you just told me we talked about Ashley docking for 60 minutes or something like that. Yeah, incredibly enough, yeah. I'm looking forward to her being on your show, or Scotty Mack or someone. Maybe together, maybe not. Paul Romanek was here yesterday. Did you catch that? I will.

Okay, you will. He did a morning show. Paul was a morning show. Oh, at the team. Yeah. He wanted to set the record straight. Who was he on with? Mike Richards? Was it Richards and Romanuk? That's a good question. I know. I'm trying to remember. I think that might have been it. Yeah, I think so.

Morning radio lineups for 200, please, Alex. It was Ashley Docking and Greg Brady. It was Ashley Docking and Mike Zygomanis and Scott MacArthur. It was Mike Zygomanis and Scott MacArthur. It's now... Are either of you guys listening to that Scott MacArthur morning show? I am, yeah. And Hebsey, no?

I don't get up that early, Mike. No more morning radio for Hebsey. I don't get up that early. So let me read the description from March 6th, just the last episode that we got together. Sorry, Mike. There are whispers in the Toronto Mike universe that that was the highest rated episode of all time.

Highest rated? Who's your insider? Who's your insider? What does highest rated mean, though, exactly? Rated by who? It was a popular episode because you're a good combination because, Milan, you watch and listen to a lot of sports media and you have a very interesting perspective.

And don't forget the charisma as well. Well, the voice, I don't know about charisma, but you have a great voice, but Hebsey man, Hebsey man, as you know,

cause you, you mentioned you're in the presence of greatness. This, this gentleman here, I mean, I heard, we'll talk about this later, but I heard Hebsey man talking to Jay on right on a J and Dan's

podcast. And even though I've had similar conversations with the man uh true true uh trailblazer in the sports media presentation absolutely like hebsey man's the real deal he's been there and what i like because i i co-host hebsey on sports which means i have to listen to it it's uh it's sports meet real talk like the it's totally an independent a fiercely independent opinion and he doesn't hold back he's not like gonna try to make rogers happy today or he's gonna try to make sure bell isn't pissed off about this he just tells it as he sees it it's amazing what you can't do in traditional media anymore i mean you could to an extent, but eventually your, you know, your act wears thin and they, you know, Don Cherry told it like it was. And then eventually it caught

up with him. Out he went and Bob McCowan told it like it was. And eventually, you know, it caught up. And when I say it caught up with him, I'm just saying that the life expectancy for someone in media who has an opinion and goes against the grain and perhaps ruffles some feathers of sponsors or, you know, higher-ups in the company who say, hey, we're partners with these people. Like a Greg Zahn, even. I'm trying to think. Like, who's out there today? Who's active out there in the mainstream sports media

who would tell it like it is and ruffle some feathers? Brian Burke, maybe. But even Brian Burke at times, it seems almost as if it's like. Well I'm going to say this about this. But you know I might still get a job in the National Hockey League. So I don't want to go too far in this regard. And also when you see what has happened to your colleagues. You see what's happened to Nick Kiprios.

Bob McCowan. Don Cherry. Bob Cole. I mean Greg Zahn. Dirk Hayhurst. Go on and on and on to these guys. And you'll know that your life expectancy isn't that long because eventually they're going to go, okay, you know what? It was good when it lasted, but now I don't want it

because it's getting too close to home. It's hitting, especially when the team is losing, it's hitting a little too close to home. And why would you want your partners taking shots at your business? If you're the Blue Jays, why would you want your partners, Rodgers, who are your broadcast partners and also own, why would you want

like you go to them and say, listen, why is this guy on the air knocking us? Well, we want to tell it like it is. Well, guess what? Let him tell it like it is on some other station. Go ahead. Go on TSN and do that. Like Steve Phillips. We as the fans miss out when it's not unfiltered talk.

Absolutely. That's right. So a lot of this is going to come back because I have my list of topics. So we're going to start a little light and breezy here. What do you guys think about the Chris Cuthbert signing by Sportsnet? Any thoughts on adding him to the Sportsnet play-by-play roster?

Because this was the big, I know, so I basically collected significant development since our last episode on March 6th, and that's something that's happened since we last got together. Chris Cuthbert now calls playoff games for Sportsnet. Yep. What are your thoughts? I think fans are happy about it,

although from a Toronto perspective, I see a lot of, excuse my French, shitting on Jim Hewson, though, for some reason. I know Cuthbert's probably the one at the top of his game, but for me, I don't mind Jim Hewson, to be honest with you. And I think probably a lot of that goes back to I enjoyed his baseball commentating back in the early 90s.

Hebsey and I just just on Hebsey on sports which people should you can watch that live stream it's on my Periscope and Hebsey's Facebook and also people should subscribe to Hebsey on sports but we just talked about the the mistake on the big goal the big the overtime goal in game four, the Leafs scored against Columbus that Jim Hewson credited Kapanen, was that who got the, for Austin Matthews, big goal. And we were saying

Kapanen wasn't even on the ice. Like, I guess that's just, we talked about that. I'm not saying, you know, you're allowed to make mistakes. Bob Cole, my favorite play-by-play guy of all time in hockey, he did that a few times himself. He did? Didn't he? Which goal was scored by the wrong guy that Bob Cole called? I don't recall that. I mean, he's misidentified players.

I thought there was one they actually re-recorded. Like, was it Brett Hull's overtime goal to win the cup for the dallas stars might have been but that was pretty weird that whole thing yeah that whole situation was he was in the again that was the back when they called off all those goals for being in the crease but really when you think about this the play-by-play man's job is quite clear describe what's happening on the ice and articulate it to your audience. No more. Not, okay, make a little commentary there. Talk about when you were, no. Your job is see spot run.

Puck over to Matthews, shoots, scores. It's really simple. Foster Hewitt was never known as, you know, oh, Foster Hewitt started saying this and went off on a tangent about that and started talking to his play by color man about, no. Foster Hewitt called the game. Puck is in the Leafs zone. Goes to Smithith over to jones shoots scores simple and really baseball or hockey play-by-play more than any other sport because of how fast it is you are dependent on the play-by-play guy to give you the details now on radio it's very different

because you can't see what's going on. Had Jim Hewson made that call on radio and switched it quick, ah, who's going to know? Not as much. But on television, when everybody knows that 34 is Austin Matthews, he's a left-handed shot, and he's always on the number one power play. And the guy who supposedly, and if I'm not mistaken, entered into the Hall of Fame this past year, did he not win the Foster Hewitt Award and he's in the Hockey Hall of Fame? And did he not earlier this year say some stuff? Oh, Austin Matthews, who was charged with some indecent exposure and a few other things.

Oh, well, or kids or whatever. He kind of... Boys will be boys? He kind of flipped it off. Yeah, he kind of flipped it off. And he got away with it. He kind of, you know, Jim Houston should be reprimanded. No, they let it go.

And this particular one here, I think he got away with it. He kind of, you know, Jim Houston should be reprimanded. No, they let it go. And this particular one here, I think he got a pass. He kind of got a pass because the Leafs lost the series and no one's paying attention to that. But I have to tell you something right now. If your job is play-by-play and you blow a call like that, not the middle of a game, oh, it's Smith. Oh, I'm sorry, it was Jones. It looked the same.

No, wait, you got to know who's on the ice. This is your moment. You're in overtime. There's a power play in overtime. This is where everyone's looking to the play-by-play guy. This is where you can shine. You're going to call an overtime winner. It might be five periods in like Gordon Miller, but you're going to call

an overtime winner. So you had better be on top of your game. If this is the first period of a preseason game, who cares? This is not the playoffs, but this is a high-profile game in overtime. Millions of viewers. Okay?

One thing you cannot do is misidentify a player on the winning goal. And again, in his defense, he's calling these games on screens. He's not actually at the game. I knew it was Matthews. I watched it on a screen. And my thought on this is a guy who's never called a hockey game. It sounds like it would be very difficult. But if you aren't

certain who it is, don't say a name until you know. It's strange to exclaim the name of a guy who's not on the ice. Also, it's television. He shoots, he scores! Everyone's watching. Matthews with his arms up. Guys with his arms around him. He's not sure who it is.

You're right. He shoots, he scores. The pictures tell the story. Everybody knows it's Austin Matthews with his arms up, guys with his arms around him. He's not sure who it is. You're right. He shoots, he scores. The pictures tell the story. Everybody knows it's Austin Matthews. Yeah, wait to get confirmation who it is. Austin Matthews. Do you know that lots and lots of goals that have been scored or home runs that have been hit, the guy calls it. He calls the goal.

He doesn't immediately have to say who the guy was. I just saw Barry Bonds hit one out of the ballpark. I don't need you to tell me. Home run, Barry Bonds. We know that. It's television. In this particular case here, it's television. It's Austin Matthews.

Just put the puck in the net. You don't need to jump out and tell everybody. And especially if you got the wrong name, you immediately draw attention to yourself for all the wrong reasons. So are you of the opinion, Hebsey, that the number one play-by-play person at Sportsnet right now should be Chris Cuthbert? Oh, absolutely.

Why else would they get him? Why would you get the number one play-by-play guy from TSN? Number one play-by-play. Am I wrong? But is it possible Jim Hewson has it in his contract? He's the number one guy? Yeah, he does. Probably for another year.

I think the deal was he gets to call the Stanley Cup final this year. Next year, I think it'll be Cuthbert doing the Stanley Cup final. Interesting. So that's quite the pickup. I'm sure Cuthbert, when he signed the deal, this is our deal with Jim Hewson. He's our one team with Simpson. You guys can be 1A

and his contract says that he gets to call the Stanley Cup final for these years and then after that, you're going to call it or it's going to be alternated or something to that effect. And is there a nice little rivalry going? Sure. You don't think there was a rivalry between Gord Miller and Chris Cuthbert to see who got the plum TSN games?

Of course. Okay. Great segue because Milan, did you watch any of that five overtime game? Five, five, yeah. Five overtime game on Sportsnet. It was Columbus and Tampa Bay. Did you catch any of that? No, I'll be honest.

Once the Leafs come out, I'm out. Right. Same with me. I'm hearing that. Me too. And that game started at three in the afternoon. But, okay, I didn't, I was on Twitter and they were saying, oh, they're going into the fourth overtime. And I actually had nothing important going on. So I threw it on just to see what it looks like in the fourth overtime. And it ended

up going to the fifth overtime, which I don't think I've ever seen, actually. So I think it's the first time I it looks like in the fourth overtime, and it ended up going to the fifth overtime, which I don't think I've ever seen, actually. So I think it's the first time I saw a game, you know, in a six-hour game, and I just wanted to see, like, were they on fumes? What are they doing? But it's interesting that that game,

which was a six-hour big game on Sportsnet, was called by TSN's number one guy, Gord Miller. I find that to be just a... Right, the NBC, they picked up the NBC feed, and Gord Miller does a lot of work. And think of all the games they have to do now. I mean, and you're doing, and back-to-back.

Like, a guy can't do a game, and okay, the next game, we got another game coming up. Let's go, everybody. Clean the ice and get the other one. So that's a lot of work there. But again, you're Jim Hewson. You got the number one, you got the Leafs game. It's overtime.

You have to be acutely aware of everything that's going on because you're going to be the one that's going to call that winning goal. Overtime of an elimination game in which we came back from a 3-0 deficit with four minutes left in regulation, which I don't Milan, you and I have been watching Leaf hockey a long time. We've never done that before.

At least not in an elimination game. All for naught. Let me ask you guys, though. Do you think if Joe Bowen makes that mistake? The same criticism? On television, you mean? Yeah. Sure.

Why not? Isn't it because Bones, he's sort of our guy. He's sort of the Leafs guy. It doesn't matter. He's more the West Coast guy. If you make that mistake and you're a play-by-play guy, you've got to own it, man. But we forgave Elliott Friedman pretty quickly for butchering the swimming call. Of course. And that was

a big Michael Phelps gold medal and he called it for Ryan Lodke. We forgave him pretty quickly because he kind of owned the mistake. No, no, but also because as a whole, Elliott Friedman is a solid journalist. He was doing, I think he was doing play-by-play for like the first time. I don't think he had

ever done play-by-play swimming before. So there's a difference between how many Olympic swimming matches have you called live versus how many hockey games have you called live. Jim Hewson's been doing this for 35. I remember when Jim Hewson started in Toronto, he did Leaf games on Channel 11. I interviewed him on CKEY Radio. 1982, I'm thinking.

Danny Gallivan had done the games the year before because Bill Hewitt had fallen ill, and the Leafs didn't really have a play-by-play guy and they brought Jim Hewson who was the backup to Jim Robson in Vancouver for Canucks games But Hebsey, I'll agree with what you said earlier, I don't it's because of the nature of the sport

and I think what that call is just going to be ignored you know, it's like the Carter home run in 93, they never played Pat O'Brien's call on it, right? It wasn't even Pat O'Brien's call on it, right? No, it wasn't even Pat O'Brien. It was Sean what's his name, the sports writer's

Sean McDonough. Sean McDonough, that's right. But we remember Tachimaljo from Tom Cheek. Of course. They've stuck that call in there as the definitive call. Exactly. Or Borchefchi's goal, right? It's Joe Bowen's call. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's Bowen, but also the Bob Cole call.

Score! Score! I mean, no, I don't know about that. It depends where you watch it. I mean, I'm sure there's plenty that have, you know, Bowen's, they've taken Bowen's radio call and stuck it over the top of it. Right. If it's better than the TV call, for sure. Yeah.

Okay. You never hear Bowen's call of Borchevsky's winning goal. That's Bob Cole. Score! Score! And they're, and Brian, and there's,

they cut their shot of Brian Papineau with the water bottle. They cut to a shot upstairs of Mike Murphy with Cliff Fletcher. They cut back down right at,

that's the Bob Cole call. Well, I suspect the same will happen with his Austin Matthews though, overtime goal. But it doesn't, it's all for naught.

I feel like, because we lost the series, I don't think it goes down into the, there's cameras in the middle of the sun now, Mike, so the shot... You want to see? Well, no, your camera happens.

The sun has now crept onto the camera. Oh, yeah, you got like a flare. Oh, my goodness. It's a glare, a flare, whatever you want to call it. All the things I got to figure out. Interesting, right? It's kind of a nice effect. You look like you're in heaven, actually.

Okay, so, by the way, since we're talking about play-by-play guys for Sportsnet, Paul Romanuk was here a couple of days ago and I played the clip of Scott Moore who was on this very program talking about the hardest decision he ever had to make. Yeah, and having to talk to his old friend Romanuk and tell him

that he listened to the fans basically and that Romanuk's services were no longer required and it's kind of interesting to listen to Paul Romanek respond and basically something to the effect of like, that's twice Scott Moore lied to him and his mistake was that he trusted him a second time. Like it really was quite a moment.

So I just want to let people know, Paul Romanek and Toronto Mike, there's only two days ago and it was really, really interesting because he went from calling a conference final one year to no longer being on Sportsnet the next. So it all kind of came crashing down very quickly. He's really polarizing though, huh?

Scott Moore. I mean, you've got Jody Vance who... Who loves him because he, you know, the man to your left... I'm not... You just gave him an open net. Was doing the six o'clock on Sportsnet and then the great, and Hebsey said it

himself, Jody Vance is very good, but that's the reason, Hebsey, you were released from your Sportsnet duties. Yeah, I don't think that was the reason. I mean, I know they wanted to advance Jody Vance, but I think in my case, Scott Moore looked and said, Jesus, Hebsey's a little more bit off more than I can chew with this guy

because he says what's on his mind. Yeah, you're not corporate friendly. Not at all. And I think he realized that. He says, we're never going to get him to do it. Even when you're recording promos and stuff like that, it was like, oh, God. It's like, you know, you're part of the PR machine.

Well, what PR machine? I'm who I am. I thought the reason they hired me was is because of my past and, you know, that I tell it like it is. Right. And so, hey, Lixon, let me tell you something. That's so long ago now.

It was when Sportsnet was in its infancy. Right. It was owned by CTV at the time. And Scott Moore was the one who had hired me and then left me to fend for myself with a boss that he knew nothing about sports. While Scott was off doing figure skating and Grizzlies basketball. And he was being, you know, the production, the head of production.

He was away all the time. Him and Rod Black. I'll never forget it. It was like, what's going on? Well, I'm going to be in Italy for the World Skating Championships with Rod Black for two weeks. Then we're flying to Vancouver to do the Grizzlies.

Then we're flying to Florida to do the Blue Jays. Oh, I thought you were, like were going to be around here to over. No, no, no. I'm leaving out to this guy here, this putz, who knows nothing about sports except for English soccer. Right. And you're now going to be the news director of a network that has hockey, basketball, football, baseball, and you want to do soccer.

So that's what happened there. And so that was, that impeded my career. If I would have known, I would have never gone to Sportsnet to anchor. In a million years. But, you know, sometimes you get promised something by somebody and it just doesn't work out. And that's a very common thing now, I think. You know, you get sold a bill of goods.

You have to believe someone when they say to you, this is the way it's going to be. And you better have an airtight contract. You better have a nice little compensation package in case they decide, you know, we loved you last year. We loved you in 2019. Right. We don't like you in 2020,

but we loved you and we were ecstatic over you in 2018 and we would have done anything to get you back in 2017, but it's 2020 now. And you know what? Thanks for coming out. Goodbye. As a program director,

any of the higher ups ever came to you and said, hey, let's tone it down. Let's not knock the J's or the leaves. Many times. And I'll tell you another thing. I've heard a lot of people saying, oh, we've never been told

by our bosses what we can and what we can't say. Bullshit. It was inferred. Okay. Maybe they never came out and said it directly. It was inferred.

You don't step on the toes. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. You don't take one of our partners like, you know, one of the teams that we paid all this money for, for the rights to broadcast their game and piss all over them. You can't do that. And like I told you before,

that's what happens to guys who, you know, oh yes, we're going to be, tell it like it is. That's great. Everyone's full of piss and vinegar at the beginning when they hire the guy. But then after a while, when the sales department starts getting phone calls from sponsors saying, hey, I'm pulling our ads. This guy here is kicking the crap out of this guy or that guy.

I mean, all the sandpaper guys are gone as we talked off the top. Steve Buffery had a tweet a few days ago about the fans now wanting the cute and cuddly sort of sports broadcaster. Like a lot of fans took Austin Matthews' side over the whole situation. Let's skip ahead to Steve Simmons because I have a whole Steve Simmons chapter. I thought that was interesting. Most people don't understand what it takes to be a good, balanced journalist and tell the truth, which is what the audience deserves.

I'm not going to write a story and try to pull one over on the audience or tell a story. I'm telling the truth. And the audience should expect that what they're getting is the truth. It's been well-researched. It's balanced. Okay. Now in Steve Simmons' case, it's biased because he's a columnist. I don't like Phil Kessel. He eats hot dogs too much, blah, blah, blah. But that's always going to come back to bite you in the ass. But when I see the vitriol that people are putting out there saying, Steve Simmons revealed Austin Matthews' most personal data. Bullshit.

I want to know if one of my teammates has got COVID-19. Don't suppress that, especially when every other sports league is naming every single person that's positive. And hockey is going, no, no, we can't release that information. It's personal. Is there a legal matter on protecting? No. If there's not, no, no, we can't release that information. It's personal. Is there a legal matter on protecting? No. If there's not, then I think Simmons did nothing wrong.

He did what any other... He did what any other reporter, if you came to another reporter, any reporter and said, I got this. I'm very... Guys, I asked Kiprios this question straight out of my mouth. Are you going to say I'm going to hold on to it for a while? You're going to go with it. You're going

to confirm it if you think you need another source, which is easy to do. Right? You're going to call up Kyle Dubas and say, look, I just heard that Austin Matthews tested positive for COVID-19. Confirm or deny. If Kyle Dubas says, well, I can't comment on that right now, that's a non-denial denial.

But why are they getting pissed at Simmons? Someone fed Simmons the information. And with that information, a good reporter checks it out, and if it's good information, he goes with it. And that's called a scoop. Guys, I had Nick Kiprios on this show last. Who? Who?

Nick Kiprios. You remember this guy? What does he do? Kipper. Well, he's going to come up later in the show. What does he do? What does he do? Well, you might remember he did 21 years at Sportsnet as a hockey analyst. As an analyst, right. So Nick's not really a journalist.

Okay, but let me just finish the thought. Okay, hold on now. I asked Nick Kiprio straight out that if his sources revealed Austin Matthews had tested positive for COVID-19, would he report it? And Nick Kiprio said no, he would not report it. Because he's a former player, that's why. He's a former player. he's protecting the players. I'm of the opinion.

He's not a journalist. He's not a journalist. It's an unfair question to Nick Kiprio. He's not a journalist. And there's nobody that's saying to him, Nick, you had a scoop and you didn't run with it? It's a front page on the Sun or front page. He's not a journalist.

He doesn't think that way. Steve Simmons thinks as a journalist. He said that's a story that the public wants to know about. The public deserves to know that Austin Matthews tested positive. And if I knew that, and I didn't reveal that, and my boss found out, he could fire me. And he'd have every justification

to fire me. You had a story? Why did you sit on it? You had a good source? It's impeccable? But no one else reported. It was really... Because he beat them all to it. All three of us agree that this was good journalism. It's impeccable. But no one else reported. Because he beat them all to it. All three of us agree that this was good journalism. Absolutely. We all agree. And I, like

you guys, see the outcry of people. And I wonder how much of that has to do with the fact that Simmons is already passionately disliked by a segment. 100% of it is because Steve Simmons is disliked. He's disliked. And so whatever he says, whether it's true or not,

and he gets a scoop from people, he's never going to get the credit from these bozos who are like, I hate Steve Simmons. If Chris Johnston broke the news on Austin Matthews testing positive for COVID-19, is there a similar outcry? No. No. He broke the story.

He's a hockey insider. He has impeccable sources. And it's quite possible. I don't know about this. It's quite possible that Chris Johnston did have that information and decided not to go with it. Because he has a partner of the NHL. He works for Sportsnet.

Exactly. I was going to say, God forbid, one of the Jays test positive for COVID. Could Shai Davidi reveal that information? I bet you if he had it, he wouldn't reveal it. No, they have a policy. In baseball, it's different though, right? Baseball players have revealed that they're COVID positive. Yeah, but the player or the agent or the team would reveal it.

Like it's never been through sources say. But wait, wait a second. Wait a second. Suppose you're a young reporter. You're just starting out. And you realize that this particular ball player hasn't been with the team for two weeks. He's quarantined.

Why is he quarantined? Can we make the assumption? Is it a great leap to assume that the reason he's been quarantined for two weeks is because he tested positive for COVID-19. But you still got to corroborate that. Do you? Yeah, because that's not enough.

Like that would be enough to sniff around and ask around, but you need to corroborate. Okay. you? Yeah, because that's not enough. That would be enough to sniff around and ask around, but you need to corroborate that. Okay, so suppose you couldn't get corroboration. The player wouldn't corroborate it. His agent wouldn't corroborate it. But you're wondering out loud now, why is he not here? There can only be one logical reason.

He's quarantined because he tested positive. That's the only other way. You've eliminated every other reason for him to be quarantined. Right? Every other reason. He either has COVID-19 or somebody close to him had COVID-19 and they're worried that he's got the symptoms of COVID-19. That's been two weeks.

And you can only ask the question, excuse me, where is Austin Matthews? Well, he's not here. Well, why not? Well, we can't reveal that. Well, can we assume? No, you can't assume anything. But he hasn't been with the team. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Just because they're not telling

you in so many words that he tested positive means you can't figure it out that it's positive. You put all the pieces together. Yes, and you can infer. You can say that it's more than likely that the reason he hasn't been with this team for two weeks

and is under quarantine is because, in fact, unlike all the other players that are out on the ice, he tested positive. Would you be going out on a limb? Sure. The New York Times wouldn't let you publish that until you had it. Don't use the New York Times as an example. That's a really bad example, considering that they had a writer for years that wrote false stories and they never figured it out. So don't even, and don't tell me the CBC or any of these other places, because they don't check their facts. You know this, Mike, I've gone through this with you,

with the Globe and Mail and the Toronto Star, of which there are some tremendous writers, tremendous editors that work for both publications, but both of them, as you know, have made mistakes, which they have not corrected, okay, about the guy I wrote a book about. So if that's the case, what other mistakes have they done? What other things have they overlooked? I mean, it used to be you believe everything you read in the papers because that's your source of information. Now it's pretty obvious that there's lots of information out there

that is not being called, that's not being revealed. And for Steve Simmons to come up with something that no one else did, folks, that's a scoop. And he had every right to print it because had he not, he would have been in trouble with his bosses. And had any other reporter gotten that information, any reporter. Okay.

There's more on this Steve Simmons. Okay. So I guess one of the questions asked of Austin Matthews, I guess Steve Simmons asked a question of Austin Matthews at the, whatever the Zoom press conference they do or whatever. And Austin, before he answered the question, which he did actually answer, he did call out Simmons for writing about his COVID. And so Austin Matthews was disappointed

that Steve Simmons wrote about his COVID. Wrong place to do it too. Yeah. They had just lost the game. They just lost. But remember, they can't talk in, you know, like in the olden days when you could pull Simmons aside and say, hey, I didn't like what you did,

because they don't get to be in the same physical space anymore, Austin Matthews and Steve Simmons. Even so, you call a guy out, you know, like that after a loss, it looks childish, petulant. You just lost a hockey game, and now you're, and the question was legit about the game. He didn't have to preface it by saying, by the way, I don't like you, Steve Simmons, but I'll answer

the question. Like, what for? I think it's the culture problem. There's a bigger issue here. You know, this is, they talk about Toronto being such a tough hockey market to play in. BS. Austin Matthews is coddled. So are all these young guys. Why would he bring that up? You almost said Mitch

Marner there. Yeah, well, you know, and then on top of it, didn't Kyle Dubas act penitently to a question that Simmons asked the other day? It starts from the top. I have that. Okay, the question was, is it possible that you and Brendan, this is by Steve Simmons to Kyle,

is it possible that you and Brendan and the staff have misread the potential of this group? The answer by Kyle Dubas was no. But I feel like that one, actually, I don't, what's he supposed to say to that one? Like that is that question. No, but if somebody else asked that question, I think he'd have a more than a one word answer.

So there's a definite anti-Steve Simmons sentiment going on. But that's the same. Look, I think you can go to any town and every town, every city has that reporter, that columnist, that guy, you know, Dick Young for years in New York. I mean, this guy stirs the pot. That's what a columnist does. He gets people talking about stuff. He gives them a different perspective. I mean, that's journalism. You're allowed to say what you want, right? And as long as he shows up, if he can, in the dressing room the next day to stand up for his, hey, Simmons, come on over here. Face the music.

It's the chicken shit guys. The ones that, you know, like the trolls on Twitter who never reveal themselves. Like, you know, you want to say these things about me? That's great. But say them to my face. Or come back the next day and at least let me say, hey, I didn't like what you wrote about me and let's have a discussion

like adults. Those are the guys who hated Glenn Healy and Romanuk, actually. But this is the scary part we talked about earlier. Simmons is a dying breed. That's what I'm afraid of. Who are one of the young and up-and-comers? I know they're not going to risk their job. I get it.

But who's the next generation of tough questions, sandpaper kind of guys? Who's going to ask the questions when Simmons rides off into the sunset? Not anybody in the mainstream media. Well, then we're in big trouble. They won't be allowed to, right? Like Buffery said, maybe that's what the fans want. Do you think they just want cheerleaders? Do you think they just want, you know,

go Leafs, go young talent, give them another year, they'll figure this out, let's just have fun. Well, look, if you're a diehard fan and you only want to hear good things about your team, sure, go ahead. If you want the absolute truth, you're going to tune to a guy like Simmons. You're going to say, I got to find out from Steve Simmons

what's going on because I know he'll tell me the truth. I know it's not going to be sugar-coated or it's going to be a PR message or something like that. Because he's not afraid to lose his job, Steve. Right. He's not afraid to lose his job. So he's the unicorn. Other than the star, other than post media,

other than an independent podcast, who else is going to say the truth? Nobody. Doesn't that scare anyone? Well, scare? We're talking about sports reporting. And you are talking to two hosts of Hebsey on sports where that's exactly what we try to do. Exactly what we do. That's what I mean. I think you've got to two hosts of Hebsey on Sports where that's exactly what we try to do. Exactly what we do. No, that's what I mean.

I think you've got to roll your own. That's exactly what Hebsey's doing. He's not corporate friendly, so he's doing it his own way. But you have to understand something. When I was working for Global, or even Sportsnet to a lesser extent, but Global did not have the rights to it. Well, mind you, we did have Leaf Game rights for a while. But the point is that I think my audience expected me to maybe dig a little deeper or ask the uncomfortable

question but here's the thing i'd be at practice the next day or i'd see the players yeah let me tell you many of them many of them uh leaf players and and uh opposing players would come up to me i don't like gary lehman had a real problem with some of the stuff that I said. He thought that I should be pro-Leaf. Todd Gill was the same way. Oh, I can't believe those things you said about Wendell. I said, well, Wendell screwed up the other night, gave the puck away, we lost the game. These guys could not believe that somebody who traveled with the team that knew the players, I think he knew them, had maybe even sat down and had a meal with them

or a beer with them or a cigarette with them, should, you know, give them the benefit of the doubt. And I remember trying to explain this to Todd, he goes, it doesn't make a difference. You don't understand my, I'm doing my job. You're doing your job. Your job sometimes is to hit a guy. Maybe you don't want to do that or, or chirp a guy and get him off his game. Maybe you don't want to do that, but that's part of your job. And if you don't perform your job, you're out of work. Well, guess what? I'm the same way. Nobody wants some mealy-mouthed, coddled reporter

to ask softball questions. Okay, first question from Mark Hepshire. How do you like the way your team played tonight? Yeah, exactly. Come on. You know what my question is? Your team must be humiliated in there the way they got their asses kicked. Maybe not quite like that. But more of a, boy, I don't know if I was

the coach, I'd be yelling at the team. What about you? And that's why he doesn't have a media pass. Right. I don't need a media pass. What's it going to get me? It's going to get me access into a room where it's like people are watching. You better be careful what you ask. You better watch it or we'll escort you out of here. One more chapter to this Simmons saga and then I actually want to find out what's going on

at Fast Time Watch Jewelry Repair from Milan. But this last chapter is, I guess, after it was James Myrtle from The Athletic who was tweeting about, you know, Matthews kind of calling out Steve Simmons that day in the press conference there. And then the response from Steve Simmons that day in the press conference there. And, uh, then the response from Steve Simmons was to, uh,

kind of go off on Myrtle for, uh, being, I would say a bit of a phony is the way I read it. Like never asking questions like Steve Simmons did there and using quotes from others instead and never going, he claimed that Myrtle wasn't going to workouts, but say goes on the radio and says that,

I don't know, Kapanen look great in the workout today, even though he wasn't there. This is the tweet from Simmons. So I was wondering if either of you had any thoughts on what's been going on for a while, because I've had both these gentlemen on Toronto Mic, and I've asked them both about this,

and it seemed to stem from an analytics argument where James Myrtle was very into analytics and the importance of analytics and Simmons was less so. And they seem to butt heads over that. But there seems to be a Simmons versus Myrtle. And I wondered if either of you had any thoughts on that. I think it's jealousy. I think a good reporter sees another reporter, gets stuff, says, man, you know, that was good of him. But I got to take him down a couple of pegs because as far as I'm concerned, Austin Matthews should have had, you know, the privacy.

He should have been entitled to the privacy. So, you know, when a reporter sees, like, I'll give you an example. I can't believe that a doctor, a medical doctor, would ever take a shot at another medical doctor. Say, hey, this guy doesn't know what he's doing. You're talking about a reputation that's been earned and so for someone to take on steve simmons for example and question his ethics or motives or journalistic integrity if i'm steve simmons or any other reporting who are you you're and and that's i think what simmons did was kind of like so wait a second you're james mytle. So when was the last time you asked a pressing question?

When was the last time you spoke up at a press conference and tried to advance a story or get some quotes? And he's basically saying, James, you know, you sit there and you listen to these news conferences and you pick out little things, but you're never the one to go up there and say, you know, I want to talk about this. I got a story to write and I want to do it. And Steve Simmons is that kind of a guy. So for one reporter to say to another one, I don't like your style or your ethics or whatever, the first reporter looks and says, well, who are you to talk? You just sit back.

You sit there, you don't ask questions, and you write down what people said. That's a pretty easy job if you ask me. But Hebsey, there seems to be a lot against Steve Simmons. Sure there are. Many in the media. Absolutely. Is that professional jealousy or is there something more personal? It's totally a professional jealousy thing

because today's reporters can't do what Steve Simmons learned to do. Steve Simmons has been writing since the early 80s, right? You ask questions. I saw this game tonight. Can you explain to me why this happened? Right? Yeah, if the coach doesn't want to answer that question right and there's an awkward silence or he goes next question and then some other reporter goes oh coach whatever yeah well that first reporter has got to come back and say excuse me you really didn't answer my question what changes are you

going to make or something to that effect now that reporter is asking questions that the average fan would ask if he was there. That's the difference. If you're there, you've got a chance to talk to Kyle Dubas. What are you going to say? Hey, Kyle, you think your team is going to be good next year? No, you're going to say, Kyle, what happened out there? Why did so-and-so? Are you worried about your job?

But instead, it's like sort of softball. And then if he didn't like the question you asked he's going to come back and say well i don't want to answer that question what gives you the right to ask me that question controlling the narrative well a good reporter says screw control i want to control the narrative i'm asking the question if you're not going to answer it right then people are going to look at you going i don't know about this guy dubas he's a little bit shaved why won't he answer but it works for. He's a little bit shaved. Why won't he answer the question? But it works for Tortorella.

That's his move. Why won't he answer? Well, Tortorella's just being a jerk, like I said before. But it works. It works in Columbus. But it doesn't work. All it does is say to people, oh, look at this.

He said eight words in two minutes of a press conference. But he just makes everybody else around him look bad and uncomfortable. I mean, the PR director for the NHL that goes, all right, next question, Toronto Mike. You ask a legit question and his answer is, I don't know. And then he stares at you. Right. But I think that's been the biggest change,

whereas years ago it used to be that the media were representing the fans. You know, they were asking the questions that the fans wanted to know because they had the access. They were readers, they were listeners, they were viewers. Right, they were representing the fans. Now I see more of a, it's more of an infomercial kind of a, more of a, you know, a relationship building.

So I keep my job. That sort of, you know, buddy-buddy sort of relationship. You can't expect Shai Davidi, Ben Nicholson-Smith, Arden Zwelling, Joe Siddle, Hazel May, Jamie Campbell, to ask the question that a beat reporter that works for an independent newspaper or independent media outlet, you cannot expect them to

because they're part of the Rodgers group. Their job is to build up the players, right? And not really go looking for stories that are of a negative type of nature. That's just, you're an of a negative type of nature. That's just, you're an extension somewhat of the public relations department. But that part hasn't changed. I'll give you Nate Pearson for the best example. This guy's shit. This guy should be,

but there are no minor leaks. You can't send them down. There are no minor leaks. Tell us what you really think. You're stuck with this guy. And all I hear is 103 miles an hour. The guy is not ready for the major leagues. He's not. He's not ready. They rushed this guy to the majors because all the hype over the years. And again, what's Shai Davidi going to be talking about?

Hey, let's talk about the Blue Jay prospects. Well, we've got Vladimir Guerrero Jr. who's overweight, can't play third base, can't play first base, can't hit home runs. No. Right? And, by the way, just found out that he's got two daughters. First, he must have been 60 years old when he had his first kid. I'm like, I thought they were his sisters.

They got a picture of two cardboard cutouts at Salem Field in Buffalo. Seriously, these kids look, I don't know, six and eight? I was thinking about that. He's 19, he's 20. No one's reporting on that, by the way. No one's reporting on it. I'm like, wait a second. A 20-year-old kid with two kids. He's got a daughter's name. No one's reporting on that, by the way. No one's reporting on it. I'm like, wait a second. A 20-year-old kid with two kids.

He's got a daughter's name in it. Is he distracted? 21. Whatever the case is. Yeah. But what happens is over time, we've been led to believe by the Blue Jay, quote-unquote, reporters, all of them,

because they do a half-hour pregame show for every single game. Right. That these are the guys. We're not watching the Boston Red Sox or Yankees telecast to see who their top prospects are and going, ooh, that Yankee prospect. We're just enamored with Nate Pearson and Vladdy and Bo,

and this team's going to go places and all that. Well, that's the famous saying, you're either selling wins or you're selling hope. That's right. That's right. So the Nate Pearson stuff, I meant, man, sure, he's going to be a good one. But you can't go from playing. He was playing in Dunedin last year.

Yeah. And then he made his way up to AA. He's had 100 innings in the minors? Yeah. Not even? And so to think. 103 miles an hour, though. Yeah, but you know what, though?

Any major league hitter can eventually catch 103. If they know it's coming and he doesn't have a change and he doesn't have another pitch, they're sitting on that fastball, they're shortening their swing, whatever it is. Yeah, give me a good match. So this idea, this whole idea of, oh, there's Nate Pearson. He can throw over 100 miles an hour. He's going to be the next Sandy Koufax. Are you kidding me?

He has to learn to pitch at the minor league level. Yeah. And they also said, oh, he dominated. He didn't dominate at all three levels. He pitched well. But they're rushing this guy because it's like, well, who do we have? You're either selling wins or you're selling hope. Aren't you guys, I don't mean to get off tangent here,

but Vladi, isn't that a concern? His trajectory, I don't think, is going to be Miguel Cabrera. I think at best you're looking at a Prince Fielder type of situation, if you're lucky. He can't play third. He can't play first. They're going to play Rowdy at first, and he's going to DH. And he's a fine young guy.

Well, they showed those Instagram pictures back in November. He had slimmed down. What the heck happened? COVID-19. Grandma's beans? I don't know. All I know is this. Again, this is unacceptable.

But for a 21-year-old to be into that shape, you're not going to last. I'm not writing him off. You cannot tell a young kid to lose weight. You cannot tell any young athlete. I can tell you this right now. If any trainer or whatever said, Hey, kid, you need to lose weight, that player is going to fire that trainer. That player is not going to go, You know what?

Yeah, I need to lose weight. He's going to go, screw you. We don't know what you're talking about. And he's going to point to an athlete that is overweight but is an effective player. Yeah, but this is where Ross Atkins and the high-performance department's got to get involved. I know.

I know. So you think if they said to Vlade, Vlade, you need to lose some weight, you think he's going to be going, oh, okay, sure. No problem. I'll lose weight. Right? All he's got to do is hit a home run weighing 250 pounds and go, oh, see, I don't need to lose weight. You think he's going to be going, oh, okay, sure, no problem, I'll lose weight. All he's got to do is hit a home run weighing 250 pounds and go, I don't need to lose weight. A year and a half later and the biggest

highlight is the home run in Montreal. Yeah, that and the home run derby. You're right, the games that don't count. They're talking about Vlade's home run power the same way Nate Pearson. You're talking about a one-dimensional player. You're talking about hoping that he reaches the one dimension. They didn't go, oh, this flatty's going to be a gold glover,

and he can run the bases, and he has a great arm. It's one thing and one thing only. Wow, can he hit the ball a long way. And Nate Pearson, wow, can he throw the ball hard. That's it. That's one dimension. That's one tool. And who in sports media is reporting this?

On that note, let's take a very brief intermission here, halfway point, and there's lots more to cover here. But Milan, why don't you give us an update on what's happening at Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair? Yeah, we're ready. We're serving, we have, what, 11 locations across Ontario, including in Richmond Hill, and we invite all the Toronto Mic listeners to come visit us.

For more information, visit FastTimeWatchRepair.com. We've got a lot of great deals, not only on our repair services, watch repair, jewelry repair, watch battery installation and all brands, but we also sell a bunch of products as well. Things like cufflinks and tie bars and

branded watches and a whole bunch of different things. And if somebody wants to meet the great Milan, which location are you typically hanging around? I'm in Richmond Hill, 120 Newkirk Road, Unit 6 in Richmond Hill. Near Hefzy's old stomping grounds. Do you have watch bands for Fitbit? Yeah, we can definitely order them for you.

Thank you. Because I'm going to talk to you about it afterwards. Because I lost this the other day. This is a common problem with Fitbit. It is. And this is pretty inexpensive. It's the original kind of rubbery a common problem with Fitbits. It is. And this is pretty, it's a pretty inexpensive, you know, it's the original kind of rubbery thing. Inexpensive, still over a hundred bucks.

But the band, but some of the bands I've seen are beautiful. Some of the, like the real good watch bands for these are beautiful, like really nice. Good looking bands like Dressy. This is kind of sporty kind of a thing. So I'm glad that Milan's here. Well, that's what he's here for.

So Hebsy's going to join our list of celebrity customers who have come in. of a thing. So I'm glad that Milan's here. So Hepsi's going to join our list of celebrity customers who have come in. We've done Jim Carrey before. That's almost as big as Hepsi. Lennox Lewis. Big Len. Normie Ullman.

Oh, yes. Oh, the great Norm Ullman. Yeah, yeah. I remember he came up. Ben Johnson had his clock repaired. Oh, wow. And now Mark Hepshire. So Lennox was up there, repaired. Nice. Oh, wow. That's great. And now Mark Hepshire. Yeah. So Lennox was up there, right? Yeah.

Wow, amazing. Okay. So let me thank some partners of Toronto Mic'd as well while we're taking a brief, a breather here because Hepsey's on fire today. I love these episodes. Quarterly, I think they should be every couple of days. Are you kidding me?

Let's see here. Great Lakes. So thanks, Great Lakes, for the fresh craft beer. Hebsey, make sure you... Oh, do you have a backpack with you? I have a backpack, but I'm not going to be taking beer and... No, I was going to... I had a lasagna for you, but we'll discuss afterwards.

Actually, you know what? Because I can always drop it off. I can bike it to your hood and drop you off a lasagna. I have one in the freezer. The beer and the lasagna? Yeah. Fabulous. Yeah, that's service right here.

Okay, so thank you, Palma Pasta. Come to Little Italy. Hey, Palma Pasta should have a location in Little Italy, shouldn't they? Yeah, you know what? These are in Mississauga and Oakville, and I always say to, and I think this may be,

hopefully when things recover post-COVID, you're right. Where is the Little Italy location for the authentic Italian food you get at Palma Pasta? Shout out to stickeru.com. That's where you go to get your stickers and decals, and you can get your fast time badges and all the great stuff at stickeru.com.

They've been a great partner of Toronto Mic'd. Pumpkins After Dark. Milan, you've got a younger son, right? He's about, what is he, five? He's five and a half, yeah. Okay. You've got to go to pumpkinsafterdark.com and book your slot. This is obviously, we're in August here, but as Halloween approaches, it's a drive-through event. It's contactless.

It's completely safe. You can save some money by using the promo code Toronto Mike. So do it. It's just an amazing drive-through event in Milton, Ontario. So pumpkinsafterdark.com. CDN Technologies, they're there if you have any computer or network issues or questions. They're your outsourced IT department. So call Barb, Barb Paluskiewicz, 905-542-9759 and garbageday.com slash Toronto Mike. That's where you go to get get the real time curbside collection

notifications. Is it garbage day? Is it recycling day? Is this is this the yard waste pickup day or the Christmas trees getting picked up? You get you can get a text or email or you can use the app. It's free. It's fun. And it makes you a good FOTM. And for GTA real estate questions, Austin Keitner from the Keitner group simply text Toronto Mike to 59559 and chat up Austin he's a he's a smart guy honorable guy I love this guy and he'll he'll answer all your questions about GTA real estate if you're looking to buy and or sell in the next six months okay gentlemen so I'm sure we'll get back to all that good stuff, but any thoughts on the

semi-retirement announced by Bob McKenzie? Many people regard Bob McKenzie as like the insider. And I'm wondering, what are your thoughts on Bob McKenzie in general? And is this a great loss to the hockey reporting

community? And who is the heir loss to the hockey reporting community? And who is the heir apparent? Like, who is now the de facto insider when it comes to NHL hockey? Well, Bob obviously was the one who started this. I mean, Bob worked at the Hockey News many, many years ago. In fact, when he first started in television, he worked on Global Sportsline. I believe, if I'm not mistaken, Jim Taddy hired him as a hockey insider. I don't know if you use that expression.

Here's our hockey insider from the Hockey News, Bob McKenzie in 1980-whatever-something. But it was pretty obvious that Bob knew a lot of people in the hockey business and was a good, solid reporter and then eventually worked for the Toronto Star and then, of course, all those years at TSN. So, you know, you can speculate and say, hey, Bob, you know, the bosses went, Bob, it's been a great run.

You're approaching retirement age. I think he's 64. Not that that should make much of a difference. The guy's sharp as a tack still. But maybe, just maybe, he was like, you know, I kind of like to slow down. I think the big part of it was this. Bob's responsibilities were way more than any of us ever imagined he was responsible for being on

the tsn affiliated radio stations almost on a daily basis you know he got paid he got paid but still okay you know you're like and all of a sudden it's like up you got to go at 4 50 p.m you got to go on i want to go golfing no no got to be. And so I think after a while of that, oh yeah, we're doing Montreal today. We're doing Vancouver today. We're doing this and that kind of thing today. I think after a while that combined with, and you're working in the evenings, you know, you're working pretty late at night maybe, and you don't get home too. And I think he lives, I think he was living out near Oshawa. Yeah, Whitby. I think he sold and they've got a cottage up near Peterborough. But the point is, is that you reach a stage in life

where you go, I've kind of done everything I can do. Right? I've made good money. They still want me for special things like the draft and trade deadline day and stuff like that. But the day-to-day being Bob McKenzie and this radio station wants you, that radio station wants you, you've got this

to do, you've got that to do, you've got the Bobcast, your podcast. There's only so much you can do. and you're not going to be sharp, you're not going to be, you know, at your best on the panel with Duffy, and with O'Neill, and with, you know, Dave Poulin, and whoever's on, you know, Jamie McLennan, you're not going to be sharp if you just spent the whole day, you know, I was on the radio with this guy, it's going to sound like I've already said this to this radio station, that radio station. And so I just think that, you know,

they probably said, look, Bob, how about this? You know, you'll cut back, you'll still get paid this amount, and you can ease your way, you can send me retirement, whatever it is. And you can choose when you want to go, what you want to say. And so once that was agreed upon,

Bob came out with just a nice statement saying, hey, it's been great, but you're not going to see as much of me as you've seen the last 20-odd years. And let's face it, Pierre Lebrun, Darren Drager, outstanding,

long-serving hockey reporters. Don't tell me for a second that if one of those guys got something, it wasn't run, McKenzie didn't know something about it, or hey, I'm going to run this through you, Bob, because you know so-and-so, and oh yeah, he said this, and boom. So I would say between those three guys, McKenzie, LeBrun, and Darren Drager,

you've got like, what, 100 years of experience in hockey reporting? Right? So losing Bob as an insider, I'm not sure and there's nothing against Bob I'm not sure it's going to have that great an adverse effect on TSN or the hockey community for that matter because what Bob's done is he's left a tremendous legacy and if it wasn't for Bob as an insider these other insiders would not exist yeah it would not exist and I imagine it was a 24-7 365 yeah you guys got to know your shit, right? You've got to know your shit.

And even though you go away in the summertime and hang out at the cottage and drink margaritas, you've got to be on top. There's stuff that's going on. Yeah. And if you don't know- I think it's a win-win situation because it also keeps him away from the competition too, to do consulting work. That's basically what he's going to be now with TSN.

Because they're loyal guys, those TSNers. Yep. Like very loyal, James Duthie and... Chris Cuthbert too? Yeah, but he... He had to go where the games are, right? No, no, no. The Cuthbert thing, I think, was... The simple thing was, if he...

The future of the CFL is so up in the air, that would have taken a good amount of Chris Cuthbert's work. I forgot about the CFL. A good amount of it. You know, every weekend or every Friday night for how many months is Chris Cuthbert's work. I forgot about the CFL. A good amount of it. Every weekend or every Friday night for how many months is Chris Cuthbert calling the number one CFL game of the year?

So who's the guy there now? Rod Black? Is that your TSN guy? Maybe Gordon Miller. Oh, yeah. Interesting. Anyway, CFL's a whole different topic. But who is the heir apparent, Milan?

Who is the de facto hockey insider? I think the guys Evzy mentioned. Only TSN guys? Like what about Friedman? I think Friedman's the next from a Sportsnet side. I think in that position to be an insider, you've got to be sort of that non-threatening, non-robust. I think McKenzie played that well.

I think that's what gained the trust of these from the general managers of the NHL. Do they like his beard? What are our thoughts on the beard? Do you care? Hebsey doesn't care about the beard? Do you care? I mean, Hefzy doesn't care about the beard. I don't care about the beard either,

but you'd be surprised how many people think he should. I know, but if the beard is your excuse for, I mean, that talking point and you're included, then, you know,

why are you talking about beard? You're talking about the appearance of somebody that's a hockey insider? Who else would be on Sportsnet other than Elliott Friedman? Chris Johnston. Colby Armstrong. Yeah.

Kevin Bieksa. Yeah, I was going to say. What do you think of his performance? Kind of arrogant. Good hair, though. It's kind of arrogant, I think. It's like, look, I just played, and this is what happens here. It's sort of like he thinks he's giving you information

that you would never get anywhere else. Right, because he played the game. Because I just played, and I'm here to tell you right now that they would never have done that kind of thing. But did you see the Roberto Luongo exchange there where he said something about, I think it was... Yeah, and Luongo was like, what are you talking about, dude? He had a clause in his contract.

He wouldn't have to play back-to-back road games. And Luongo saw that and went, what? What? Exactly, what? What are you talking about? Is Bieska supposed to be the sandpaper? I think Bieska's the next Don Cherry. I think that that's what they want. They want a guy who is authoritative, has recently played the game,

is not afraid to say, you know, even to the point where he might even mention the name of a former player. Right. Look, when I played against Patrick Kane, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. So he's a modern player. He's very articulate. Don't get me wrong. He's very articulate. Don't get me wrong. He's got that kind of edge.

Like, look, man, I know what's going on. I played this game, and I played against that goalie and that defender, and I can tell you firsthand what it's like on the ice, on the bench, in the dressing room, on the plane, on the bus. And I think you just need a bridge to P.K. Subban, like whenever he wraps up his career, and it might not be anytime soon, but I feel like he's the ideal guy for that role.

P.K.'s fantastic, but I don't see him as a sandpaper type of guy. No. P.K.'s more of a host. Okay, he's too... I don't disagree. P.K., I sort of don't see P.K. not throwing former teammates under the bus, but yeah, you're right.

But Biexa, I can see Biexa as, Kevin, we need you to be a little more, and like, you know, Bieksa could be the type of guy that he could call some friends of his and say, listen, I don't want you to take this personally or whatever, but I may use your name or a particular anecdote to make a point, but I just want to let you know that it's sort of part of the show.

I need to show the viewers that I know what I'm talking about and I'm not afraid to go after somebody. You know, I never thought of him that way, but I think, and he's safe. He's not going to go after somebody. You know, I never thought of him that way, but I think, and he's safe. He's not going to go into political matters or offend sponsors and, you know, he's he looks good on camera, so I think he checks off a lot of boxes that Hockey Night in Canada wants.

The guy I would like that they'll probably never hire, Bissonette? Paul Bissonette? Oh, Biz Nasty. Biz Nasty. You know, that kind of sandpaper, but I think that's a lot. He's got his podcast. He's got the Spitting Chicklets podcast. I can't see him going over to mainstream Sportsnet. Yeah, I did see him in that.

Remember that awkward, was it a Sportsnet video when they had at the table, they had all these... Oh, with Serge Ibaka? Yeah, they had Beau Bichette, Bianca Andreescu. Penny Oleksiak. And Penny Oleksiak. Right. And Biz Nasty.

That's fine now. Who doesn't fit in that? Okay, and now we got lots to cover here. And Penny Oleksiak. And Biznasty. Who doesn't fit in that? We got lots to cover here. So I'm going to ask you, Hebsey, well, I should let the listeners know that Hebsey recently had an appearance on the Jay and Dan podcast. Sans Dan, though. It was Jay on right chatting you up on a terrible phone

connection, which we talked about on Hebsey on Sports. But the content was great because it was all about Hebsey. Uh, and I'm wondering, I don't know what we can even say about this, but, uh,

Dan O'Toole has returned. Does anyone know, did Dan, uh, address the, uh, I don't know what happened. No,

he basically said, thank you for your support and supporting me. And I'm back now and things are good. And there you go. So is that okay? Yeah. So that's a case where if you're going to compare that to whether you should reveal

Austin Matthews' positive test for COVID-19, it's a no-brainer. This guy's got a personal life. I think everyone knows. Well, yeah, but he put it on Instagram. He put it, it's true. He put it on Instagram. It's not like somebody overheard the conversation.

Does the public need to know exactly how he, like what transpired between the posting of that, you know, distress call? I don't know where my child, my one month old daughter is. I don't know where she is.

All right. So there you go. But obviously he took some time off. He seems to be fine. And do we leave it at that? Or do we want to probe and know more? Like what happened? Well, I guess that's what I'm wondering.

Did you get taken off? Did you get taken off the air? Did you get suspended? Were you warned? Was there a medical incident? Did you go to the hospital? You know what I mean? Do we need to know all the details or do we need to know that he's better now?

He's rested. Whatever the case is, everything's fine. But do we even know any of that? Like all we know is he's back. So I guess here's my question again. And I've got a lot of time for Dan O'Toole. I really, I like his, as a broadcaster, he's been over here and we had a great, great episode showing a mic together.

But very, very publicly, he puts out the Instagram post that he doesn't, basically it read, I mean, my son read it the first time I thought that the baby had died. And I said, no, read it slower. He's saying he just doesn't know where the baby is, hopes the baby's safe. And then even cops were involved and some reporting was done and it was like this baby is, hopes the baby's safe. And then even cops were involved and some reporting was done. And it was like, this baby is with her mother and is safe.

And then, of course, like you said, he eventually the next morning did, he responded, then he deleted everything. And he went quiet for a while. And now he's back. I'm not saying we deserve to know anything more. Of course, this is a personal family matter. I'm just wondering if that should be addressed at all, I guess. From my perspective.

It's none of our business? Is that none of our business? I don't think it's any of our business. First of all, I hope everything's okay with him and his family. That's a scary, scary situation. That goes without saying. The cynical part of my brain, and I don't know if Hebsey can shed more light on this, was if you're a program director, do you want something you know, something like this situation, you know,

with one of your talent? Of course you don't want it, but you have to address it. You can't just, you know, throw out the baby with the bathwater. Right. Dan's a key guy. Let's hope he's okay. Number one. Right. And then, you know, you address the situation. But they're not addressing the situation. How do you know? Well, because there's been no addressing of the situation. How do you know? Because it would be in been no addressing of the situation. How do you know? Because it would be in the public. This is how you address, right? Oh, no, wait, wait, wait.

Why wouldn't they go to him individually? Right. Sit down with him, address the situation, make sure he's fine, he's okay, and then decide whether they want to reveal anything to the public as to Dan's recovery. I'm referring to what is revealed to the public. I have no knowledge of anything. I have no knowledge of anything. I have no knowledge of anything.

Are you thinking something more along what happened with Adrian Griffin? Like, well, what happened there? Remind me. It was pretty bizarre yesterday. I told you, I mentioned it on the podcast. Oh, yeah, sorry. Adrian Griffin.

We did talk about it on Hebzion's podcast. Yeah, he's been accused of assaulting his ex-wife and punching her and throwing her against the wall and that kind of a thing. He's denied accused of assaulting his ex-wife and punching her and throwing her against the wall and that kind of a thing. He's denied the allegations, categorically denied them. The Raptors are on not his side, but on the side of the process coming out. And I asked you if you think that would be a distraction to the Raptors. Right.

We did discuss that this morning. My apologies. But I'm surprised. They're going to let him coach tonight, though. So, I mean. Yeah. But they made the public. Isn't it this afternoon? This afternoon, yeah. So, they made the public statement, though. So, I think with Dan O'Toole's case, I apologize. But I'm surprised. They're going to let him coach tonight, though. So, I mean. Yeah. But they made the public. This afternoon, isn't it?

This afternoon. This afternoon, yeah. So they made the public statement, though. So I think in Dan O'Toole's case, I think, I think that's what Toronto Mike's referring to. Well, yeah. And I'm not, as you know, many years I've been talking about this. I don't believe we have the right to know family

and personal things. Of course not. Unless he wants to reveal it to you. Unless Dan wants to come out and say, look, this is what happened. Right. I was in distress. I just wondered if that wouldn't be

a way to move forward here. Like, are we, because, you know, everybody knows what happened. That was very highly publicized and very strange. Like, we hadn't, you know, it was very,

in real time, like, people were literally tweeting, where's the Amber Alert? Like, this was a common thing I was getting. Like, where the hell's the Amber Alert? Dan O'Toole's child is missing. I guess we just, something happened there.

It's none of our business. Let's just move on and have fun with sports. I hope TSN supports him, obviously. I'm just concerned about, and I know Hebsey mentioned he's a valuable talent. He is, but they're all replaceable, right? Yeah. The other thing too is that you don't realize it until you've done something like that for a long time.

The burnout factor. Yeah. No one's going to say, I'm burned out. No one's going to come out and say, you know what? I'm burned out. Something usually has to happen. Some kind of an incident where somebody goes or you go, you know what? I need to get away.

I've been working too hard and the warning signs have been there and I'm not doing my job well, whatever the case is. But very rarely will an individual say, you know, I need some time off. And in this case here, Dan might have just been in the position about to say, I need some time off here. There's stuff going on and the COVID and I'm stuck in my home and I don't know what the circumstances were. You have a newborn and who knows what's going on.

Who knows. But to me, the fact that he's back on the air, it seems to be fine. Shaved off his beard. I'm just hoping that, yeah, that he got the treatment that he needed. He got the rest that he needed. He got the attention that he needed and that he's back to being, you know, the Dan O'Toole that we know and love. You know, we're critical a lot and that's part of our jobs, I guess.

You're part of a sports round I guess, here. It's part of our Sports Media roundtable here. I do want to give a lot of the talent, and Hebsey did this job for many, many years, so you can relate, especially during this COVID period. And still churning out programming while all this was going on. I couldn't imagine how

difficult it would be. The only similar thing I could think of was during the lockout and the strikes and all those kind of things. But there were other sports going on. Exactly. This is just unprecedented. This is unprecedented. Right.

You know, I was still listening to the fan. In fact, that word has been used quite a bit. Yeah, it has been. You know, listening to the fan, you know, during the last few months before the sports did come back, I thought they did a hell of a job. I'll give them credit. Right. Let's do some real talk here with Hebsey, man.

And this, again, on Hebsey on Sports, Mark Hebsey has discussed this in great detail. But recently, Hal Johnson came out to discuss. In fact, let's hear Hebsey. Hal Johnson released a video. It was really, I think you've all seen it, right? Melania's out, yeah. Where he discussed how,

like what led to him in the body break of participation with his wife. So Hal Johnson is a black man. His wife is a white woman. Hebsey, pick it up on what happened with Hal. And then I'm hoping you'll share the story of what you experienced with TSN. And we'll hear it in your words of what you went through.

Hal's story was that in 1986, around that time, he was told that he should audition for a job at TSN as a sports reporter. And so he did, and he did the audition. The audition went very well. They said, wow, we want to hire you. He did. And he did the audition. The audition went very well. They said, wow, we're going to hire, we want to hire you. And then I think, I guess, within a few hours of him being told that he was being hired, he was told by someone else or maybe the same person that we're sorry, we can't hire you. Why not? He asked. And he was told, well, we already have a black reporter, Mark Jones. That was kind of the answer that he got there, and that didn't sit well with him at all. Like you can't have two black reporters, and at that time at TSN with that particular ownership or leadership. They had one black, they had one woman, I guess, you know, good old boys, white guys,

old white guys group, CBC, whatever it was. So, yeah, so he was basically told that. And that, you know, obviously didn't sit well with him, nor did it sit well with him over the 30-plus years that he's had to live with something like that. Eventually, he did get the body break show through perseverance, right? And, you know, I don't want to say going in the back door, but he wasn't a sports reporter.

He was part of a program that, you know, participation had something to do with it, whatever. But anyway, when he revealed not too long ago that he, this story, that he had been rejected because of his color, it made me think about what had happened to me around the same time. In fact, I called Hal. I got in touch with Hal because the reason was because Sherry Ford, a white woman who is married to a black man, Dwayne Ford, and have kids of color, she made a statement, you know, oh, God.

I didn't want to get into the whole thing like that, but she was called out by Kayla Gray. Because she spelled out the N-word. She basically said, look, I'm a white woman. I'm married to a black man. And here's the story of how my black fiance at the time was treated by my father, the racist. Right. And used the N-word in its entirety in her story. Right.

And Kayla Gray thought this was a horrible thing, called her out on it. Right. You've got no rights, stuff like that. And it started this whole thing whereby Sherry Ford kind of went like, you know, backed off of it and said, you know, I'm kind of almost sorry that I brought this up because I didn't expect the response to be like that.

Who do you think you are? You're a white woman. What do you know? And it sort of brought out the, you know, the worst in some people. And the responses that came out from kayla gray's supporters were just i could not believe how they were you know how they ganged up on sherry ford oh you got no right in a nutshell they were triggered by a white woman spelling out the n word it wasn't n and then asterisks or something and um i think it could have been handled a lot differently by kay something and um i think it could have been

handled a lot differently by kayla gray um i thought she was quite militant about it and i thought that all of her support she basically was kind of getting her supporters to be on her side to pick a side here on my side we're black and we deserve more you know we deserve to be treated better than we've been treated or on the side of this white woman who happened to marry a black guy and thinks she can, you know, discuss these things, you know, the same way, has the same feelings that we have. I kind of, I didn't like the way it kind of came out there. So I thought, you know, when I was at Global, at Sportsline,

and the show was pretty successful, really successful show. Love that show. And when we were at our peak or even before that, I was approached by someone at TSN to say, you know, we'd like you to work over here. You know, we think you'd be great on Sports Desk or whatever the thing was, right? You know, add a little personality.

And I was like, yeah, that sounds pretty interesting. And, you know, the money was good there. Why wouldn't I listen to an offer? I love working at Global, don't get me wrong, but okay. And then was kind of told in no uncertain terms, no uncertain terms no no no they're not going to hire you there because you're a jew and they've already got a jew they got michael lansberg wow so you you basically had the same experience an anti-semitic so when i heard al johnson's story and i thought about the timeline i got in touch with hal i hadn't spoken to him in years i got in touch with him i said let's go let's in years. I got in touch with him. I said,

let's go, let's do a little background. Yeah, was it this guy? Yeah, it was that guy. Well, same guy for me. Well, he's dead now. But at the time, this guy was a known racist, sexist, anti-Semite. And if you were to ask anybody that was ever in the conference room with him, or hung out with him, or heard him speak, that's the kind of guy he was. He put people down, minorities, women. He was just like that. He was the old boys guy, the old boys guy, and he was a bigot. And he was responsible for the hiring or he was the last word.

Let's put it that way. He would have been the guy to say, nope, no Hal Johnson. We've got our black. Nope, no Mark Hepsher. We've got our Jew. Nope, no Mark Hepsher, we've got our Jew. Nope, no whoever the female reporter was. Nope, we've got our female reporter. That kind of thing. Terry Libel? Who was it?

Terry Libel would have been there. She left, and then there was no woman until a woman named Diana McDonald, who didn't last very long at all and was gone before you knew it. I guess, I don't know why. Well, with no surprise considering the leadership you're describing. But also, too, Diana McDonald and Mark Jones were two people, two minorities, let's say. Yeah, people of color. No, one was a black, one was a female.

Oh, I see, non-white guys. Female was a minority, right? Right, gotcha. Female sportscaster. Gotcha. And neither one of them were ready for primetime. They were not ready for the Toronto market or the national market. Yet, I think they were rushed into that

because they felt, oh, as long as they put a black person there and a white... Or they call that a token. And a woman there, a token, right, and let's give them the job there. So neither... Look, I think I mentioned this to Mark Jones. I said, look, you got the job there because of your colour. A year later, you would have gotten it on merit. One year

later, if you would have worked somewhere else in that year and gotten your chops and learned the business and become comfortable on the air, you would have gotten the job on merit, not on your color. But you got the job on your color. Now, Mark Jones is a fine broadcaster today. He got a good break there.

He took advantage of it. He learned on the job. He made mistakes. He was green and eventually turned into a very good broadcaster. But he got the job because he was black. And Diana McDonald got the job because she was a woman. And tell me how many times that's

happened. Nowadays, when people are being hired, you know what I mean? I watched Hockey Night in Canada last night. I can tell you for a fact that five years ago, they would have never thought of having a black anchor, David Amber, and a black hockey player as an analyst, Anthony Stewart.

I looked at the diversity. There's Cassie Campbell-Pascal. There's Anthony Stewart. There's David Amber. There's Elliott Friedman, the Jewish guy with the big beard. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. You would have never seen years ago.

A lot of diversity on that television show. It was Don Cherry, Ron McLean, Glenn Healy, Al Strachan, Eric. It was a bunch of white guys. So in order to change that over, you're going to go the other way as much as you possibly can. And David Amber is an excellent broadcaster. He deserves the job on merit. Yes.

The fact that he's black makes it even better for them. He's great. And he's black makes it even better for them. He's great. And he's black. Fantastic. No one can say David Amber was hired because he's black. However, Anthony Stewart, it might well be that Anthony Stewart isn't quite ready for prime time, yet they want to put him in that position. Oh, yeah.

You do know you're going to get a rollback. No, I'm not going to. Had you ever seen Anthony Stewart on the air before? I don't remember seeing him on the air before. Okay, alright, so if you were sitting there saying we need some diversity on this panel, we need a black hockey player.

You don't think that's out of the ordinary? Look, there's black hockey players. Why can't we get one of of the ordinary? You know, look, there's black hockey players. Why can't we get one of them on our panel? Right? If Anson Carter is working for NBC in the United States, if, I'm just trying to think who the goal, Kevin Weeks. Yeah.

Right? Why, you know, why wouldn't we, why wouldn't we pick a man of color, a North American of color, versus a Swedish, an ex-Swedish, a Finnish, a Norwegian, a Danish goalie or whatever. Yet another way. So what I'm saying to you is this.

Did Anthony Stewart get the job on merit or did he get the job because of the color of his skin? You tell me. Well, let me bring in Milan here. Milan, you're a person of color. Look at you. What say you about those remarks? I mean, wow.

He's sweating and I put an umbrella over him. Hey, if Anthony Stewart was white, what do you have got in the job? Well, maybe it's a good opportunity for him to, like you said about Mark Jones, about training. Maybe there's a training ground for him. It's the same thing. But Hedsey's saying you don't start training at the top of the food chain. This is the biggest hockey show.

What's the difference between that and Mike Zygomanis on the morning show, on the fan, on the most listened to sports radio station in Canada? Is that still the case? Oh, sorry. First of all, that's a local radio show. You wouldn't know if Mike Zygomanis

was white or black. You wouldn't know. This is Anthony Stewart on national television, Hockey Night in Canada. Yeah. And to me, Anthony Stewart, I don't care what color he is, he's not ready. If you've watched him, he's not particularly articulate. He has to stay in his lane. He's made mistakes.

And the other thing is that he's trying too hard. What I found was he had some expression. They threw to him the other day, that he's trying too hard what I found was he had some expression they threw to him the other day and he had something prepared like oh what does Anthony Stewart think of this and he had this sort of prepared speech or line or joke you know that would have worked in the locker room maybe

but it just didn't it didn't fly he wasn't being natural he wasn't being himself he wasn't waiting for the question to be asked he was sort of had the bullshit ready or his line ready and so to me if you're going to be on national television man you gotta have you gotta look kind of comfortable on the air and he didn't look and hasn't looked comfortable and you've got him on quite often too this isn't once a week right he's on almost every day for the last while he's not good enough to be on that panel, regardless of his color.

But Hebsey, where would he go to get the on-air training anymore? There's no Timmons version of, you know, Hockey Night Canada or Rogers local cable 10 in Scarborough or something. It's not my issue. I know, I hear you. When you're in front of Hockey Night Canada, you're in front of a national audience. It had nothing to do with me.

You were talking about the top podcast. Did he do Leaf games? Was he on Leaf TV for a while? Did he do anything like that? Right. You can't just take somebody and go, you know what, I think you'd be good on the panel. Look at Kevin Biexa.

Right. Kevin Biexa, Anthony Stewart just played up until a couple years ago too. Right. What's the difference between the two of them? Forget the color of their skin. What's the difference? Who would you rather listen to? I'd rather listen to Kevin Biexa. He's good. He's articulate. He gets to the point. He's picked up on it, even though he's not an experienced broadcaster. He's been interviewed enough times or he passed the audition or he looked was comfortable enough that he can handle it. I'm not convinced that Anthony Stewart is anywhere near as good as Kevin Bieks And when it comes to that, and I question again, why did he get the job?

All right. I'm going to, I think we'll leave that there. That that's, that, that is your head. So that's your fair point that you're making there. And,

uh, uh, it reminded me of a point you made on Hebsey on sports a while ago that I had had to defend and, uh, explain to people thinking the same one, you know, and explain. Yeah. And people thinking the same one. You know?

And people would be tweeting at me. Yeah, let them tweet away, okay? I've experienced the same thing. I'm not... I've experienced... Well, can we say it, Mike? I'm not... You can, yeah. Yeah, say it.

Scotty Mac on the morning show. Yeah. But I told you that. I said to you at that time. Right. On his own. Forget about his sexual orientation. Any of that.

Is he good? That was the number one orientation, any of that, is he good? That was the number one thing. Your point was, is he good enough to anchor the morning show on the Fan 590 at this point? Or did the fan take the opportunity, the opportunity there, of him coming out as a gay man and saying, you know, this would make a perfect, this would

be great for our public image. So Hebsey, when they hired him from TSN, did you think they knew about his sexual orientation? No chance. No. No. No way. No way. Remember, he was hired to get the Wilner Jay's talk. Right. He was the Jay's guy. So Wilner could do play-by-play.

But there was a really fast trajectory for him from Jay's talk to morning show. Let me just parse this real quick. I don't want anything to get lost in translation. So Hebsey's point is the fact that the fact that Scott MacArthur was not a straight white man because he's

a proud gay man. That was the diversity that Rogers basically gave him a spot that in Hebsey's opinion Scott MacArthur was not ready, hadn't earned on merit yet. And then when you made the statement, which I actually, my brain understands what you're saying,

and I can parse that statement. The number of people who tweeted at me that that was a homophobic comment, it was numerous. And I did a lot of emailing to explain that Hebsey's not homophobic. That opinion is not a homophobic statement. You're not,

you're saying that Rogers, who does brag about diversity being their strength, was doing something we've asked them to do for years on this very program. But still with no female broadcaster on the air,

by the way. But we have, well, Ashley Dawking got her hour on the last episode because she was no longer there. And that, I don't know why she's...

Yeah, sorry to interrupt you. No, that's okay. Except to say that the statement that, Hebsey's opinion that Scott MacArthur got the job because he had some diversity and like that he was a gay man. No, Mike, I said to you, I said to you, and this is my exact quote. Yeah. Would Scott MacArthur have gotten the job as the morning show host on the

Fan 590 in Toronto had he not come out as a gay man? That's all I asked. That's right. That's all I asked. Had he not come out, and had he been Scott MacArthur baseball reporter, would he have gotten the job on the morning show on the Fan? Tell me honestly.

Did he get it on merit? I've had a chance to listen to his program for a number of months now. I think he's pretty damn good. Oh, no, he is. No, no, I'm saying at the time. But didn't he come out after he got the show? No, no, no. No, no, no. That's my point.

You think they would make such a short-sighted decision like that? Yes, yes, yes. They needed to do something. This was a perfect opportunity for them. Now, I'm sure if I'm Scott McArthur and I hear this, I'm going, who the hell does this guy think he is? But the bottom line is this. If you were to say, did he get it on merit at that time? Had he done enough radio in major market and been successful

and had really good ratings? Because as far as I know, the ratings on his 1 to 4 show on TSN 1050 were not very good. Well, no show, I think. But that's not my point. My point is, if you're an up-and-coming broadcaster and someone says, we're putting this guy on the morning show because he had dynamite numbers in the afternoon

and he had great numbers here and he's well known and people like richard said big numbers identify with him in that and he's a natural successor on the morning show sorry so let's explain this to me you're telling me that dave cadeau and the higher ups had a list of names in the morning show that they were going looking at promoting and the fact that his sexual orientation was such and such put him at the top of the list? No, what I'm saying is they had no idea who they wanted to hire. They had already, the well had run dry. Elliot Price was not the answer. Ashley Docking was not the answer.

Greg Brady was not the answer. Who else did you have? Who are you going to get? Who's out there? Dean Blundell was not the answer. There was no, they had nobody left. But that's a long-term decision you make. The cupboard was bare.

Well, that's pretty scary. No, no, no. That's the way they're doing their decision-making. Let's put Ben Ennis and J.D. Bunkus on the morning show. Would that have been? What do you think? Think about it. They had an afternoon show.

Jeff Blair. Why not Jeff Blair on the morning show? Let him do six hours, six till noon every day. Think about it. Milan. They had nobody. And if you think Dave Cadeau is the decision maker here, you're wrong.

So, Heb, do you think if J.D. Bunkus came out of the closet, then that would put him closer to the higher? Way up. Way up. So he's saying, yeah, Dave Cadeau is saying... Way up. But if Talent X came out of the closet, that would put him, you know, from one of the guys on the... If George Russell came out

of the closet, that would put him at near the top of the list to give him the show i can't say i can't say but it had been a very i'm just talking hey listen you know when scott mccarthur came out he posted a video of himself yeah saying yeah here yeah we all saw that on twitter yeah that kind of thing and let's face it when i saw that that, and I'm sure you too, wow, man, that takes some guts. Yeah, good for you. You've got to have some courage to do that. But now you've got to go out as still, you're a sportscaster. Yeah. You're still a sports personality.

You've got to go out and do your job, whether you're gay, straight, whatever, whether you just came out or you didn't come out. But I think at that time, a lot of people went, wow, man, that takes a lot of courage and guts. And you know what? He's a good broadcaster. Let's give him a shot. But you had Greg Brady already there.

Yeah, but Greg, yeah, you had Greg Brady there. Right. But what were you going to do? I mean, you had Greg Brady and Ashley, it was Greg Brady and Elliot Price, and then Greg Brady and Ashley docking. Right. And now you're going, well, this isn't working.

What are we going to do now? We're going to get rid of both of them, one of them, all of them? Yeah, I'd love to be a fly in the room for that decision. It just doesn't, you would think it'd be a fly in the room for that decision. It just doesn't... You would think it'd be a much more longer-term kind of plan. But wait, you labor under the misconception that because it's Rodgers,

that the decisions they made are well thought out? Okay, speaking of Rodgers decisions here, I'll have you check out... McCowan, Cherry! It's like, oh, geez, what are we going to do? Let's go back to Bob McCowan. Nick Kiprios, all of them, the way they treated them. All of them. Bob Cole, Jerry Howarth.

All of them. Darren Millard. Darren Millard. All of them. They're a huge list. Yeah. Can you please... Paul Romanoff.

Doug... John Shannon. Doug McClain. Doug McClain, John Shannon. Wait a second. Glenn Helium. Damien Cox. Damien Cox.

Howard Berger. Michael Johnson. Norm Romax. Yeah. Push them all out the door. Yeah, well, we're going to get to that. Push them all out the door. Now, I need to ask, are either of you listening to the Bob McCowan podcast? You know what?

This is, to me, it's a sad situation what's happened. I get that he got the year off and he got paid, right, Hepsi? I'm assuming with the no-compete clause, so I get it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But to me, long-term, it's become out of sight, out of mind. And I think that's the danger when you're Bob McCowan. I think in his brain, he always wants to do the Johnny Carson goodbye. Once you're off the air, you'll never see me again. But I think his heart always wanted to.

He can't retire. He's got to sell some wine, right? Right, or whatever. I don't even think it's the wine part. I think he wants to do this in some form and now to do a YouTube show, I looked at the numbers on YouTube.

The numbers were, were not very impressive. I don't know how you gauge success or how he gauges it. That show we had before with the five questions. I think,

I think it's fair to say he abandoned that format because it was not very popular. And he's been, he's been transparent and honest. I listen, he's trying to find different things.

Listen, the best fit for him, we all know what it is. And I don't know what's going to happen with Tim and Sid. You guys, he's trying to find different things. Listen, the best fit for him. We all know what it is. And I don't know what's going to happen with Tim and said, you guys probably have more inside information on that part, but it should be on the drive home for a year or two. Take the big pay cut. That's what's going to have to happen and grooms groom the next talent.

No way. There's no way he wanted to leave on his own terms. He couldn't. Right. And he's no different than anybody else. Don Cherry wanted to leave on his own terms. Bob Cole wanted to leave on his own terms. John Shannon, all the people we mentioned.

Everybody wants to leave on their own terms. But Bob Cole, you had up-and-coming talent ready to go. You don't in the fans' case. They've self-inflicted, destroyed that station, in my opinion. Right. So you think getting McCowan back is going to make a difference? I think it would go a long way in the afternoon slot. Do you think so at this point now?

Remember, 66 years old, and you're going to put him back in there? It was all grumpy Bob before that. Bob not working. Bob, you know, Bob's mailing it in. Now suddenly it's going to be, oh, Bob's had a year off. He's going to be back to his old self again? You know him. Do you think he'd be rejuvenated?

Nope. For a short, a year deal? Is he working five days a week on radio now? No. You're telling me he wouldn't come back? Now you're telling me that, okay, Bob, we're going back to five days a week on radio. Three hours a day. Same cast of characters.

You don't think he wants that? You think if the fan offered him something, anything close to his old deal, that he wouldn't be back tomorrow? No. Oh, you don't think he wants that you think if the fan offered him something anything close to his old deal that he wouldn't be back tomorrow no oh i don't know you know why they treated him like shit why would you go back to somebody that treated you like shit why would you go they treated him like shit when they got rid of him in the morning show and he came back a week later no that was different that was different because he knew that he he had a gig there he knew he had a good relationship there with Nelson Millman, all that. This is different.

When you get bounced from an employer and you suffer the embarrassment, humiliation of, you know, hey, guess what? You're not whatever. That's tough. But to suck it up and go back to that same employer, okay, is the most nauseating thing I could think. I wouldn't be able to. I would be throwing up in my own mouth.

And he's not short for money. If I had to go and face the... I mean, look, if Channel 11, Channel Zero said, hey, we want you to come, I would say, fuck you. Are you kidding me? The way you put, what you put me through, the distress that you put me through. There's no dollar amount that would change your mind.

There was no dollar amount at all. You didn't treat me like a human being after the years of service I gave you. And if Bob McCowan, who of anyone in Canadian broadcasting, deserved a week of shows, a week's worth. Yeah, quite the exit. Right? A week's worth of shows to say, let's get the best of Bob.

Yeah, like Roger Ashby, for example. But how do we know he wasn't offered that? We knew a week before when he was leaving. Maybe he didn't want that. Well, we don't know that. You're right. But if that's the case and he didn't want that, then why would he want to come back to a company that treated him that way?

What other option does he have? Well, how do you know? You don't know what option he has. If this is the best he's doing now, that's pretty scary. But again, Milan, he's 66 years old, right? I don't think he wants to ride off in the sunset. I got news for you. Nobody wants to. But the point of the matter is that at some point you have to look at your life and say,

you know, I think I accomplished a fair bit here, and I'm not sure I want to go back to what I used to do to have to prove myself again, and here's why. What if he goes back to the fan? He puts his tail between his legs. He takes half the salary. And what if the show just doesn't have it? What if the Overdrive show is kicking the snot out of him in the ratings?

And what if it disappeared, which was AM Radio's best friend, was traffic jams going to work. That's a big issue. So all of that, so all of that, now he's back and it's what, they're going to bring back John Shannon?

They're going to bring back Doug McLean? No, you've got a new cast of characters now. Right. You've got all new guys. And now it's like- That's why I'm talking about grooming the next young talent. Again, look, Milan.

I mean, you work as hard as he did until you and then when you're 66 you tell me if you're going to be looking forward to going back into work every day

you've just been off for a while spent some time with the grandkids got some golf in had a little wine couple of other little projects

you're not hurting for money yeah he's making Fidu productions I know they have a Go-Go's documentary you've got freedom but the thing is you've got some freedom

which you didn't have before. You're obligated five days a week to go in there and talk sports. You did it for 40 years? But to Milan's... What do I think? He can do nothing. He doesn't have to be in broadcast. He just didn't have the exit that he wanted. But he's podcasting now.

And again, like Milan said, out of sight, out of mind. Yeah, the number of listeners... Don Cherry, Don who now? Right. But I mean, that's with everybody, though. It's not just them. It's anyone that is out of sight, out of mind. Look, the same thing for me.

I was on television every day. I had to reinvent myself, okay? People still go, are you on TV anymore? No, I'm not, but I do have a podcast. What's that? So you reinvent yourself. Everyone has to do it at some point. Anyone that had a great career

in something and left before they wanted to, right? Comes to the realization that you got to reinvent yourself. You got to do something else. You'll always be known as the guy who was on every afternoon for doing sports and all that. That was you. You'll never change that. Okay. But unfortunately, as time goes on, people are going to say, say hey didn't you used to be so and so didn't you used to be that guy and that's tough to hear yeah i used to be i used to be that guy every night i used to be i was me well what happened to you you used to be on my tv screen and now you're not here anymore what happened you almost oh i'm fine i'm doing great i'm semi retired whatever i do a podcast oh good for you they go good for you

but a lot of them say well I hope you get back on television soon because they assume that that's what you want that no matter what happened behind the scenes they assume

that you want to be back on TV when I left Sportsline I had people come up to me and say how dare you what am I going to do every night at 1130 now I said what

it's a huge compliment why would you leave to go to radio I said that's nothing to do every night at 1130 now? I said, what? It's a huge compliment. Why would you leave to go to radio? I said, that's nothing to do with the medium. I got tired of the job. I was there 11 years. I was burned out. Oh, but you've got to go back because I have nothing to watch at 1130. I used to watch you.

Well, how selfish can you be? This is my life. It's not your life. Yeah, Milan. Unfortunately, Milan, you're being. Trying to get Bobcat back on the 3590. I get it, Milan. And what about poor Tim and Sid? Maybe I'm nostalgic.... Trying to get Bobcat back on the 5.90. I get it, Milan. And what about Port Timmonson?

Maybe I'm nostalgic. You want to hear Bob McCowan on the air, right? Yes. So you're selfish. But why don't you listen to his podcast? But you don't care. I think it's a compliment to him that I want to listen. There are very few guys that I want to listen to on the air.

I got it. But you don't care how Bob feels. You care about your feelings. You want to hear him on the air. You don't care. You might have You care about your feelings. You want to hear him on the air. You don't care. They might have to drag him back kicking and screaming. You're going, good, as long as Bob's back on the air. Nobody wants that.

You're selfish. Why can't he be selfish? It'd be an improvement over Tim and Sid. So why can't he be selfish? Why can't he do what he wants to do? I don't think this is what he wants to do. You don't think he wants it. You don't want him to do something else.

You want him to be on the air. You want him to be on the air. I'm just going to ask a question of Milan here before we... And you can't believe that he doesn't want to be back on the air. Milan. Yes. You're hungry for some Bobcat. Is that right? A motivated Bobcat.

You want primetime sports back on 590. Yes. Like this exact formula that you loved for years and years and years. Yes. Like so many guys are. I still commute. Yes. like this exact formula that you loved for years and years and years. Like so many guys are age, right? I still commute, yes. But meanwhile, Bob McCowan is producing a podcast

and he's got John Shannon on there and you're not listening. It would be very easy for you to have Bob McCowan in your car. There's this thing called Bluetooth. A lot of people have figured this out. But you want him on 590 so you can hear, you know, whatever that is, 10 minutes of ads, all the crap that comes with AM radio. You want Bob McCowan afternoon drive on 590.

I want to listen to him talk about the timely topics of the day. But why can't he do that via podcast? Hebsey and I talked today about... Oh no, for sure he can. What about me? Wait a sec, what about me, Milan? What if I went there and I said hey, you know, I could do that afternoon show. What about me? Would that be okay? Absolutely., you know, I could do that afternoon show. They went, hey, you know, not a bad idea. What about me?

Would that be okay? Absolutely. So you don't like Tim and Sid? No. Oh. So you want an afternoon drive show that has controversy? Correct. That has personality?

That takes the issues of the day? Yes. That doesn't worry about stepping on some toes, ruffling a few feathers, rattling a few cages? Yes. Well, there you go. I think what you need to do is you need to contact the fans' sales department and say, I have advertising dollars here, but not for the

people that are on the air there now. For this time slot, this rate I'll pay if this person is the host. And guess what? You'll get them. The expendables of radio broadcasters. That's what I want to bring back. You wave money in their face for advertising dollars,

they'll put on the air whoever you want. You have a phone call to make on your drive back to Richmond Hill. Bring back Hebsey. Hashtag Hebsey. Give Hebsey a chance. Let's start trending. If Hebsey replaces Tim and Sid, he's got to bring me with him, right? I could bike to work every day.

Guys, honestly, I could do another 90 minutes, but you'll be back next quarter. That was amazing. I love these episodes. Time just flies. Well, yeah, we hit 90 minutes, and I'm a man of my word. But good stuff. We're going to do it again. And thanks again, Hebsey, and thanks again, Milan, for joining me today.

Thank you, Mike. Thanks for having us, Mike. And that brings us to the end of our 706th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Mark Hebbshire is at Hebseyman. Hebseyman, follow him on Twitter. It's a good follow.

Milan, you're at FastTimeWJR on Twitter. Correct. And what's the website again for FastTimeWJR on Twitter. Correct. And what's the website again for FastTime Watch and Jewelry Repair? It's FastTimeWatchRepair.com FastTimeWatchRepair.com for Milan's website. Go see him in the Richmond Hill location. We have our friends at Great Lakes Brewery. They're

at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. StickerU is at StickerU. The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group. CDN Technologies are at CD Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta's at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Pumpkins After Dark are at Pumpkins Dark.

And Garbage Day are at GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike. See you all next week. Everything is rose and green You've been under my skin for more than eight years This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls.

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