Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Steve Paikin and Ron Davis: Toronto Mike'd #572

Episode Date: January 14, 2020

Mike chats with the host of The Agenda on TVO, Steve Paikin, and jazz musician and Toronto Mike lawyer, Ron Davis.

We're building something here, detective. We're building it from scratch. All the pieces matter. Welcome to episode 572 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, never change things up, and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta, StickerU.com, The Keitner Group, and Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com, and joining me this week is the host of TVO's The Agenda, Steve Pagan. Welcome back, Steve. Nice to see you, Mike.

And there's been a great mistake here, Steve. Nice to see you, Mike. And there's been a great mistake here, Steve. Please accept my apologies, but I thought I was booking, as your co-host today, I thought I was booking Bill Davis, but there's a great miscommunication. Instead... You went with that, eh? You went with that. What, you got Miles Davis instead?

That's okay. Oh, I wish. Bitches brew, that'd be great. Joining us, I call him, well, I call him my lawyer. Others call him the jazz man. Ron Davis is here. There we go. No relation to Bill or

to Miles. See, Steve only came because he thought Bill Davis was joining us. I'm hurt. Ron Davis is a pretty good second act, though. I'll go with that. Really? You think I have potential as a premier? No. Steve, is Ron Davis your favorite Ron?

And I ask that as I look at your... Don't do that, Mike. Don't do that. Don't. He is neither my favorite Davis nor my favorite Ron. No, you could say... I'm wearing this jersey today in part because last week, my favorite Ron, who's Ronnie Ellis, who I'm sorry, I've known for jersey today in part because last week my favorite Ron, who's Ronnie Ellis, who I'm sorry, I've known for twice as long as I've known you.

I met him when I was 10 years old. Ron Ellis turned 75 last week, which I'm shocked by because, as I say, I've known him, well, I've known him since he played for the Leafs in his 20s. And he's become a bit of a pal of mine over the years, and he's one of the finest people I know, and one of the greatest Maple Leafs ever to don the blue and white. You know, I love the blue and white. That's my team as well. I mean, I'm a little young for Ron Ellis,

but I often rock my 93 Gilmore. That's a good one. And a big fan. Now, you two, okay, so you've both been here before, and soon I'll tell people how they can hear your respective deep dives. But can I learn how you guys know each other? Like maybe Ron, how the hell do you know Steve Paikin other than the way I know him, which is he's on my TV periodically? Well, when I was dreaming about being the Premier

of Ontario, I was thinking, who would be the ideal cabinet member for my cabinet? And this name came into my head, Paken. And I just want to say for the record that Steve Paken is neither my favorite Steve nor my favorite Paken. My favorite Steve is Steve Ginsberg,

who I met once at Vesta Lunch many, many years ago. He was very nice to me and I haven't seen him since. He's my favorite Steve and there are lots of other Steves. And my favorite Paken, I can't start.

It would take the whole broadcast. So I just want to say that. But you know how we met? I met, actually, do you remember how we met? Nope. I really don't. Yeah, you borrowed $10,000 from me and you've never paid me back.

That was not it. No, that wasn't it. No, that wasn't it. I was on your show with a singer who, you know what, needs to remain nameless at the moment. What were her initials? Her initials were... Needs to remain nameless because you can't remember? That's right.

Ron, we're on your tricks, buddy. You don't have a clue who that singer was. So this would have been on studio too. Yeah, way back. And you played the piano. I think it was around the time of Confederation. As part of an ensemble. You were the piano man.

No, not an ensemble. It was just me and the vocalist. Oh, okay. This is like the 90s, 80s? Oh, for sure. 90s. That show debuted in 94. Okay.

And you were probably on in the early years. I was actually away from jazz until 97. We met then, and then we met a few other ways. I don't even know. We had dinner one night. We had dinner one night at a restaurant, and Steve watched baseball games for the whole time. I watched, you know, I've-

Red Sox, right? Exactly. I watch about 150 Red Sox games a year, and I had it on my device while our wives were looking at me disgustedly. And, yeah, but, you know, when the games are on, I have to watch them. What am I going to tell you? Conversation with a synth lady. So, Steve, I have a special message for you from the good people at Great Lakes Brewery. Yes, I have one last night, incidentally.

Which one? Do you remember? Yeah, IPA. The Octopus? No, this was two days ago. Sorry, my oldest son came over. We watched NFL football and cracked open a couple. Cracked open a couple. I watched a little football myself this past week,

and I got more beer for you. So this message, though, from Great Lakes says, can you tell Steve Paikin that a bunch of us at Great Lakes Brewery are big fans and that the Red Sox suck? Oh, that hurts me, but I'll continue to drink their stuff anyway. Well, here. So again, before you leave, you're each taking... And you too, Ron.

I don't want you to feel slighted here. I got a six-pack of Great Lakes for you as well. Well, thanks. And I'm just looking over at your script over there, and you skipped over the paragraph where there's a message from Great Lakes to me that I'm their favorite jazz pianist. But I understand. How did things go with Symphronic?

Because last time... Here, let me do that right now, because I want people to know... Steve Pagan's in the house. What are you wasting your time? No, no, I get it. For those who don't know, your name is in all of your stuff, right?

Right, in all caps. Pretty much. Symphronic. Symphronica, it'sronic. Symphronica. Symphronica, my apologies. That's okay. Oh, hey, let me play a bit and we'll talk about it here. So what do I have for you?

They named the city after me. Toronto. Hello. TV Ron-tario. And let's see if Ron can tell me what I'm playing here. You know, it starts a little slow here. Maybe while it brews up here okay so if you want to hear the original deep dive of ron davis

episode 539 mike chats with penis and i said penis penis and composer ron davis about symphronica his career in jazz the other side of his professional life, that's being my lawyer, and how we're connected. And that episode was an hour and 27 minutes. If you want to hear the Steve Paikin deep dive, it's episode 515. We chat about his start in radio at CHFI and CFTR, his stint on the Fan 590, his years at the CBC.

Is this you, Ron? I hope so. It's actually Miles Davis. It's Bill Davis. Bill Davis does play the piano. Not badly, actually. Not as well as you, Ron. And I'm not going to reveal the truth. You're too kind, Steve. Hosting the agenda on TVO and why he loves the Boston Red Sox. And that episode was

only six minutes longer than yours, Ron. An hour and 34 minutes. Well, he's like 12 inches taller than me, so he gets extra time. And I'm going to let people know, because I like to reveal, you know, tear back the curtains and let people know how the cake is baked.

But there's another person in the room, so I'm just going to say hi. I'm going to wave to her. Sonia is here. Hi, Sonia. Hi, Sonia. Sonia's from Stage 10, and she's helping me kick the video streaming up a notch. Is that how I can say it?

Because there was room for improvement because I took an old iPhone and I stuck it on a tripod, and then I pressed the record button. Apparently, you can do better than that. Who knew? We're trying to. Who knew? Are you going to take this back to TVO, Steve? Sonia, are you free the rest of the afternoon to go back to TVO? Get our acquisitions people on this right away. So, Mike. Oh, were you going to take this back to TVO, Steve? Sonia, are you free the rest of the afternoon to go back to TVO?

Get our acquisitions people on this right away. So, Mike. Oh, were you going to say something? No, talk to me, Ron. Okay, because I kind of feel like I'm in a corner here. Oh, I actually am in a corner. But besides that, on the Toronto Maple Leaf thing, I'm not as much of a hockey fan as you two, okay?

But, and this guy beside me, Steve, is wearing a Ron Ellis Toronto Maple Leaf jersey. It looks like you just bought it. It's like a mint. No, no, no. It's the TML in the corner. He gives it away. Very old. It's the old.

And you see how there's straight edges on the Maple Leaf? They haven't done that since, I guess, Shanahan changed that up a few years ago. Well, I keep just revealing the layers of my ignorance here. But I'm going to share something with you. Actually, I thought Ron Ellis was in this, but he isn't. It's almost as good. I'm going to share a photo with you that I have with, and it's before he was a donut and two other people.

Who's this with? We are looking at your iPhone. Oh, wow. Look at that. That is an old picture. Okay, that's Carl Brewer. Yes. Wow.

And Tim Horton. Yes. Wow. Before he was a donut. Okay, that's Carl Brewer. Yes. Wow. And Tim Horton. Yes. Wow. Before he was a donut. And I'm going to say Dick Duff. Yes. My man. Check that out.

That's me. That's a great shot. That's you. That little kid is you. Get out of here. That little kid is me. Well, no, I'm not the tiger at the bottom. Tim Horton.

Now, do you know which city had the first Tim Hortons? Oakville. I believe. I'm saying this because of Steve Pagan here. Hamilton. Of course it was. Really? Yeah, it was the hammer.

How come? Because all good things start in Hamilton. Yes. Mike, are you from Hamilton? I know. Of course not. I was on the same shows in Parkview. If there's not, you're my lawyer.

Can you take care of that for me? So we already tell the story before, but I talk about you being my lawyer because if I get nasty cease and desist or whatever, you help me get out of trouble and you help me stay out of trouble, essentially. Well, I'll do what I can with the first as far as the second goes. You're on your own, buddy. I don't know if I'll keep you out of trouble. Where was that shot taken?

It was taken at a synagogue at a Hanukkah party in 1964. That's a great shot. Thank you. That is really something. What a keepsake that is. Want to buy it? I don't want to buy it, but if you wanted to send me a copy

of it, I'd take it. I'll sell it to you. Look at that. That's Carl Brewer when he had hair. What? He has no more hair? Well, he has no more anything, unfortunately. Oh. And things are... I don't follow hockey anymore.

Listen, you're going to miss out when things happen this May here. I'm not proud of it. Into June, hopefully. Go Leafs. Although I just heard Morgan Riley's out for a couple of months. Two months. I know. of it. Into June, hopefully. Go Leafs. Although I just heard Morgan Rielly's out for a couple of months. Two months. I know. Terrible.

It is terrible. Now, Steve, I'm very interested in episodes of Toronto Mike you've consumed lately. Because I've seen on Twitter, thank you, by the way, because here I am in my basement trying to go all indie. When I have somebody like Steve Paikin spreading the love, it's a big deal to a guy like me. So thank you for doing that. I enjoy your show. I confessed to you last time I was here.

I did not know of you before I was a guest on your show. And since then, I have discovered you have a massive archive, right? This is show number five? 572. 572. It's astonishing how much content you've got and i have from you know when i'm able to i do listen to sam i listened to your um sean mckenzie podcast the other day i you know call me crazy i didn't know he was bob's son is that weird because

he looks like bob the uh there's a chin thing though a bob chin maybe a little but but obviously i know bob bob is more my generation. I've known him a little bit, and I didn't know Sean was his son. And they're, of course, at opposite. They're at Competing Sports Network, so that makes that interesting. And, I mean, you're a Red Sox fan, but you're also a baseball fan. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Dave Perkins, Bob Elliott episode. Oh, I love that one.

That actually, that was my fave. Of the ones that I've heard of all of yours, I guess I've probably heard, I don't know, 20, Bob Elliott episode. Oh, I love that one. That actually, that was my fave. Of the ones that I've heard of all of yours, I guess I've probably heard, I don't know, 20, 25 episodes now. That was definitely my favorite. If you ever wanted to get those guys back, and frankly, invite me just to sit there and listen to them. I would do that. I would love to be a fly on the wall with them.

You know, I have four mics. I can, like, I, this, the nice thing about Toronto Mic is that I can do that. Like, you can come up with, I can go on a bike ride, have this idea, which is how this happened. I was like, I really like Bob Elliott's old baseball stories.

I also really like Dave, Dave Perkins, old baseball stories. They both kind of remind, they both have kind of a mumbly delivery and they have this like old school gruff presentation. And it's just, the stories are wonderful.

I said, Oh wait, what if I got them on at the same time? Like, that be fantastic so like i just think these things up and then i i do them so i could totally have a episode with dave perkins bob elliott and uh steve bacon love to do that and the nice thing about that episode was you don't even have to be a baseball fan to enjoy it because they just tell stories and And if you just like storytelling, you'll enjoy it. Well, thank you. That was one of my favorite. Well, next to the Ron Davis episode, it's one of my... That was a good one too. Can I tell you, actually, may I give you props on that? I've known Ron, okay, we've known each other 20 years and reasonably well, I thought. I learned

so much about you from that episode, I did not know. Nevermind that you do 40 hours of part-time legal work at Fogler's. I did not know that. But all about your background, your connection to United Bakers through your mother's side, about your parents being Holocaust survivors, I did not know any of that. And on and on it goes. It was a really great interview. That's what happens when you're in the room with a great interviewer. Yeah. Okay, Ron, now it's your turn to lather praise on me. I'm ready. Please.

Well, I'm just kind of stuck with Steve saying that you have a huge archive. I haven't seen your huge archive. You're seated at the moment, so I don't know that I'll see yours. Hey, now. But, sorry, I had to go there. Really? Always goes into the gutter with you, doesn't it? Sorry, sorry.

So I am a broadcasting fanatic. Sometimes I call myself a broadcast slut. And I think I'm going to betray a confidence here that I have with Steve. But on the way driving over, we were commenting on the fact that you, Mike, are a fantastic broadcaster. And what you have going out here reminds me,

now this is before your time, way before it's audience time, of what City TV was to Toronto in the 1970s. I know you've heard that before. I've heard Brian Linehan. Yeah, well, actually it wouldn't be Brian Linehan. It was more the fantastic content that was being created by names

that hadn't established themselves kind of at the star level of Brian Lanahan, but people knew. And it's true. You have this amazing archive. I'm still catching up to your podcast. And the work that you do, and you put it out there, and you're so good. And on top of everything, you're like Steve. You've had an umectomy. You never say um.

Like Steve has also had an umectomy. And I want to know where you had an umectomy you never say um like Steve has also had an umectomy and I want to know where you got your umectomy. Avoid the early episodes of Toronto Mike I'll tell you I've been doing it now 8 years is that math right yeah about 8 years and it really was I would do an episode

I didn't know what I was doing unlike Steve who's been broadcasting for decades I'd never done anything of the sort. So it was like you listen back to yourself, and you're like, oh, I should stop interrupting guests when they're in the middle of a story, and I should stop doing so many ums and ahs, and you just basically try to improve

by listening back to yourself critically, basically. It's amazing how much better you get at something when you do it 20,000 times. That's the rule. Are you suggesting I should practice piano? A little more. I've never bothered before., that's the rule. Are you suggesting I should practice piano? A little more. I've never bothered before. But here's the thing.

Couldn't hurt. So episode 471. Oh, hang on. I didn't interrupt you. Yeah. French. I didn't know that you had this PhD in French. I didn't know that you were a university professor in French.

I also found that out from your podcast, Mike. Oui. So this is episode 472. For 471. No, this is 572. You're right. Oh're right oh my gosh yeah thank you my lawyer's correcting me on this it's five my 571 which was only a couple of days ago uh i you know i had done it a million times the same way so it was you know doom you know i could do it in my sleep but i decided to mix like we mentioned sonia's here so basically if people go to the periscope feed which i believe is like periscope.tv slash toronto mic you can now watch there's multi cameras it used to be one camera now there's more there's two cameras that's multi camera right right and the audio it used to

be if you go directly on periscope you have to basically use the uh the phone's microphone so the external microphone that the phone has you following any of this yeah so a phone has a microphone built into it and that would be the audio source for a periscope if you're going directly through periscope which is what i've been doing for the last year or so but with this new software and interface with the stage 10 that we're testing today i'm able to take the board feed, so the feed coming out of this board, which is how I record podcasts. That's why these podcasts sound

so damn good. And now we have the proper audio. He's not a broadcasting slut. See, he's used to this. This is old hat for him. It's as if I talked about law. Like if I go on the, he has lawyers on the agenda and I hear them talking about law and you know what my reaction is?

Mike, I'm so glad I got in the car. I love the technical. I'm so glad I got in the car and drove an hour to come down to the south end of New Toronto so I could hear Mike talk about his new board. Your board, B-O-R-E-D. So are you queuing to a spot? This means you have to pay a little respect for a few seconds,

and then I'll get right back to you, Ron. I've never ever seen before They'll take you to the sky Right upon a silver star Ron looks like he doesn't know this song. Let me ask Steve. Steve, do you know this song? Not yet. Magic

Shadows Oh, my God! That's the theme to Magic Shadows on TVO. Oh my goodness. Steve! I'm embarrassed. Elwy Yost! I'm totally embarrassed now.

Steve should feel shame. I do. I feel shame. Elwy Yost! Yeah. That's the theme to Magic Shadows. And I have a message from my good friend, Ed Conroy,

who, by the way, Steve... Oh, Retro Ontario. Right. He was on your show. Yep. Which is amazing. Now, let, by the way, Steve... Oh, Retro Ontario. Right, he was on your show. Yep. Which is amazing. Now, let's shout out Linda, too. I know Linda...

Somehow Linda helped get Ed on your show. I don't know exactly how that worked. In fairness, Magic Shadows hasn't been on the air in 30 years, which maybe... Since World War II, I think. Which is why I haven't heard that theme in a long time. We should explain to the audience what Magic Shadows was and is.

Well, Steve should, yes. What's Magic Shadows? Magic Shadows was hosted by a guy named Elwie Yost, who also did Saturday Night at the Movies, and Elwie had an infectious love with movies, and instead of playing them all in one fell swoop, which we did on Saturday nights, Magic Shadows

was a show that basically broke up a movie into five parts and played it over Monday to Friday, and then with some contextualization from Elwee as well. And it was a very popular show back in the day. And this was before there was streaming. And if you wanted to see a movie, you either, you had to, it was appointment television. We got 10 channels back in that.

I mean, those were the days where we had 10 channels. That was it. Yeah. Absolutely. Now the question I have from Ed Conroy is, he wants me to ask you, Steve, about why TV Ontario, TVOO doesn't do more with their archives and how big the appetite is for that stuff. Because we all grew up with it at home and in the classroom.

And on this, there's a wealth of content in the TVO archives, and it seems like we can't get at it. I'm going to step on Steve's line because I have the law degree here, and I'm going to bet I know the answer. Go ahead. Rights. Yeah, that's part of it. Yeah. Ed and I have talked about this numerous times. I think he's come into TVO, actually into my office and we've talked about it before. There is a, I mean, it's a cliche to say it, but there's a treasure trove of stuff in the basement of TVO just, well, 50 years. It's our 50th anniversary this year. So 50 years of phenomenal, you know, nostalgic, wonderful programming. And you're right.

If you're going to use any of that stuff again, people have to get paid. And, you know, you're talking real money. And that's a problem. It's a problem to get at it for that reason. That, it bugs me. It almost bugs me as much as a recent story Ed told me about. He was working on a, like a, what was it? I think it almost bugs me as much as a recent story ed told me about he was working on a

like a like a what's it i think it was a much music documentary and then with bell media by the way who owns much music now and bell media i guess at some point bell media said to to play these clips of much music there was some licensing involved and it became a problematic like uh cost wise prohibitive prohibitive but work with mehibitive. But work with me, Mr. Lawyer. You can work with me. Bell Media owns MuchMusic. So they own the clips, right? And they're producing the documentary for Crave TV.

Yet this project got abandoned, aborted, because of how cost-prohibitive it would have been. But the artists would need to get paid. Every time you show the... So Steve Anthony doesn't need to get paid, right? If it just uh like let's say it's steve anthony talking on much music like you know what i mean don't know i know there's something called ron you don't know you're kidding you don't know steve anthony ron get the hell out of my question with a question i'm i'm here it's too late squatters rights no there's something called fair dealing which you know when

we do the agenda we're allowed to take i think maximum 30 seconds of something that we don't own if you talk about it and you can therefore plus you have a journalistic that's the point yeah you have a journalist exception called fair dealing and you can do that and that's actually beyond journalism for fair dealing by the way thank you you for using the Canadian term fair dealing and not the American term fair use. But anyway, that's a whole other thing. So Mike, you have just put your finger on a mega issue that not only explains why there's so much content that is not available and why there is content that's maybe even 100, well, not 100 years old,

but might as well be 100 years old that isn't available or why only now the great Gatsby is going into public domain. So on the one hand, there's that. But at the same time, you've explained why universal, no, I'm not gonna use names, why huge music conglomerates make billions and billions of dollars, and artists don't, and musicians are poor. And that is because large companies lock up rights. They then have legislation in place, copyright legislation. And this is a big controversial issue, because copyright is a government-imposed monopoly.

Otherwise, it would be fair game. And the larger companies lock it up, and usually they take the rights away, they buy the rights at an inexpensive price from the artist, and then they control the market. And if you want to show that clip of so-and-so from 1975, you've got to pay me $10,000 or $100,000. And by the way, that's going to

the shareholders and it's not going to the artist. That is prevalent in the arts. That sounds like bullshit to me. And it's the true. That's the technical legal term for it. It is bullshit and it's horrible and that's why you have, for example, the music business is a tens of billion dollar

business business and musicians are broke. And that is the end of my soap business business and musicians are broke. And that is the end of my soapbox. And let me know when we... Well, that's why you're here, Ron. So we needed a lawyer to help explain these things. So I'm... Are you Mike's lawyer, incidentally?

Well, apparently he says I am, but... He's said it six times on the air. When are we getting to the Steve Paikin Challenge, Mike? What is that? The mic is yours. You know what the Steve Paikin Challenge is. I'm not sure i do well this is where i put on my hat speaking on behalf of the canadian public this is a public and this

is a uh psa okay public service announcement that's generally what it's not a medical test is that what you were referring to no Isn't there a medical test for prostate? Yeah, that's right. Prostate-specific antigen. Yes. I'm glad he clarified. That's on Mike's other vodcast that he's going to do. No, you know, the Canadian public admires Steve Paikin,

loves Steve Paikin's work in broadcasting, television, radio, now podcasting and in writing. However, Mike, do you agree with me that the Canadian public has been deprived of one major feature of Steve Paikin? Couldn't agree more. And what is that feature? What are you two talking about? Nobody in Canada has ever heard Steve Paikin swear on the air.

Use a cuss word. Oh, on the air. I'm glad you added that caveat. Well, I mean, I'm not privy to his private life, but I haven't heard you swear in private either. I don't think. Have I? I think it would take something really

significant, like blowing a World Series in the bottom of the ninth of Game 7 to swear then. Were you swearing there? Yeah, the late, great Bill Buckner. I think there was definitely some profanity that night. 1986 World Series, yeah. The late, great Bill Buckner. I think there was definitely some profanity that night. 1986 World Series, yeah. Okay, but you weren't on air.

So if I hear you right, you want Steve to drop an F-bomb right now. Well, it can be an F-bomb. There are other letters, you know. Don't you? Don't you think the Canadian public... All right, well, look. We need Steve to be on board with this.

I don't want to rough him up to get that F-word out of him. But Steve, would you be willing to drop an F bomb for Ron? If you mean fundamental? Yes. Fundamentally, I'm with you. Yes. I think the Canadian... Don't do it for me.

Do it for your fans. Do it for the Canadian public. I think they'd be shocked and appalled if I were to do that. I wish we had a live poll. I work for the Pokeroo Network, folks. I'm not really supposed to be swearing in public.

Pokeroo! Mike, do you imagine what your... I think you're overstating the excitement the public would have over hearing Pagan swear. I feel like they'd rather hear me talk more about the audio feed that goes into the live stream. Why don't you just get another question going here? All right. We lost a great musician. Now, Ron, you're a jazz musician who seems to be completely out of touch with pop culture.

For example, if I say the word Steve Anthony, you have no idea who I'm referring to. Most people your age, Steve's age, my age, even dare I say Sonia's age, know who Steve Anthony is. Now, are you aware of a band called Rush? Okay. Okay. Give me a break. I don't know their music. Can I tell you a funny Rush story?

Of course. I just blew it, actually. I'm going to come back to it later. Oh, when we forget that you don't know their music? Well, I'm sorry. I don't know their music. Okay. Steve, are you a Rush fan by any chance?

I wouldn't say. You know what? I actually saw Rush play at Iverwind Stadium in 1976 in Hamilton. 76? Okay. Yeah. I found a very rare ad from 1976 that I want to play right now. This is one minute in length, so let's tune into this Rush ad from the same year you saw

them at Iverwind Stadium. The year is 2112. The album is 2112 by Rush. 2112 by Rush on Mercury Records. 2112, a concept of life in the future conceived and performed by Rush. Don't deny us, Father. Oh, we have no right to do. Attention, all planets I'm into the twilight zone

Rush has assumed control With their new album 2112 On Mercury Records and Tapes You don't know Something about me Don't know I'll be happy

That's great That's great. That's vintage, man. What a cool audio. Whose voice would that be, Mike? Any idea? You know, I don't know. I don't know. What pipes?

I think they say in that ad, 2112, as often as I've mentioned that Ron is my lawyer. Now, okay, you saw him in 1976. So how did that come to be? Did you like what you heard? Like, Working Man was on the radio? What happened there? I did like it, yeah.

But I think we talked about this last time I was here. I'm really more of a Sinatra guy. So that kind of very hard rock and roll is a little outside my comfort zone. But that concert ended up being very memorable in the history of Hamilton because they were a loud group. And as you know, the football stadium is right in the middle of a neighborhood in the Northeast End. And as a result of the noise, neighbors complained, and there were never any rock concerts there after that. Wow. So that was the last rock concert, I think maybe for,

well, decades, probably for decades because people were upset about it. I was actually thinking about this as we drove down here together, Ron, you know, Neil just died and he was, he was five years older than you. That's crazy. That's crazy how young he was that he died. That's so awful. He died of the exact same disease that Gore Downey died from. The exact same type of brain cancer.

Glioblastoma? Yep. Terrible. Every day is precious. You say, again, I learned this from Alan Cross, so I know it to be true, but it's Neil Peart. I know Alan, by the way. I know Alan.

So you do know Alan. He just doesn't know how to pronounce a drummer's last name. Isn't it Perth? No, it's Peart. Peart. Peart. And there's definitely no H at the end, but a lot of people do say Pert, but it is Peart. Did you get, we're embarrassing Ron here, which is actually tons of fun.

Can you keep going? Can you keep going? Can you keep going? I'm good with it. Who else don't you know, Ron? Can I tell you a story? I just stepped on your line, Steve. Fire away. So my mother used to go to Florida

when she was alive every year. She was a snowbird. And when I came back to music, I'd get phone calls from my mother every day. And often she would say lani i was playing cards with mania and mania son's a musician and this is my doing my mother's jewish mother accent i figured that mania's mother son a musician and she bought him a house why can't you buy me a house so i said said, well, who's her son?

Like, I don't know. I don't know who her son is. She's a musician. He's a musician. So I got these calls for years. And she was never able to identify who the musician who bought a house for her mother is. So these go on. And then finally I get a phone call.

Ronnie, I was playing cards with Mania. And we go through the whole thing. And I said, well, Mom, what's the name of the musician? Gabby. And I said, Gabby what? What's his name? Gabby. And so that went on for years that Gabby bought his mother house.

So honestly, 10 years into this routine where she was disappointed that on my jazz musician salary, I wasn't buying her house. She says, Ronnie, I was playing cards with Manya. And she used to play cards with Manya almost every night. And her son's a musician that bought him a house, and his name is Gabby. And I say, Gabby what, Mom? Gabby Lee. I said, Gabby Lee?

You mean Geddy Lee? Oh, Geddy, Gabby, it's the same thing. So my mother used to play cards with Geddy Lee? Oh, Geddy, Gabby, it's the same thing. So my mother used to play cards with Geddy Lee. And of course, he's Geddy because his name is Gary, and his mother's accent made it sound like Geddy. So I'm not even surprised. And he's a huge Jays fan, right? He sits in the action seats at the Jays games.

Big time. He's wise. He adopted the Jays as his team. He didn't stick with some old Red Sox thing. Let the record show, Mr. Boone. Let the record show. I became a Red Sox fan before the Blue Jays were born. The record shows that

and it's still ridiculous. I like the Jays. Come on. I can speak to basketball because I was a big NBA fan before we had the Raptors. Who was your team? I adopted the Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls. Oh, wow. That was going out on a limb.

Boy. No Ben Wenger jumper on are you. Right. Okay. Right. But when the Raptors arrived, it was very easy for me to just completely abandon any Bulls nonsense and go hard with my Raps. Had you gone to Chicago Stadium to see the Bulls play?

No. Had you gone to university in Chicago? No. No, okay. Did you continue to go to Chicago every year to watch the Bulls play?

No. No, okay, so... You've got him fired up, Mike. You're getting him close. You're getting him close to the top. Good work. Now the real talk begins.

Maybe. There we go. Steve, I know you're a Sinatra guy, but do you have any fond memories of the David Marsden era of 102.1 CFNY? Sorry, never listened to the station. Never, never.

Okay, so this is going to be wasted on you. And Ron Davis. David Marsden was on Chum FM. Yes. I remember him from Chum FM. I actually remember him on Chum FM. Not on the edge, though. He was on Chum FM, and Pete and Geats was the morning show on Chum FM. Yes. I remember him from Chum FM. I actually remember him on Chum FM. Not on the Edge, though. He was on Chum FM, and Pete and Geats was the morning show on Chum FM.

And you had, like, I want to get this right, but you had Brian Master, I believe, was there at the time. I worked with Brian. Tell me, because I'm very good friends with Brian now. I know. He used to advertise on your show. Brian and I worked at CHFI together. Yes. That would make sense.

Yes. And who's the, somebody else who, Donabee. John Donabee. I know John. Yep. He was on Jazz FM for a while. He migrated to jazz. And I think it's his birthday today.

If not today, yesterday. Is that true? It's Facebook. Oh, Facebook. Sorry. Okay. Well, happy birthday to John Donabee, who is a fantastic guest on this program. I'm going to play a little promo from CFNY

back in the David Marsden era, and it will all come full circle in the Rush retrospective, if you bear with me here. Will Steve swear? Steve, you can swear anytime during this promo here. Their ancestors fed in the blood of dinosaurs ravaged the arms and legs of cavemen singing campfire tunes.

Their female mosquitoes... I believe this is Don Burns, by the way, voicing this one. This is the ad for my next record. And you're at a loss to terminate them. You could wear light-colored clothing, hire a SWAT team, use costly repellents, or the one surefire cure. Hey, radio! Radio. The spirit of radio. CFNY. We've discovered an incredible high-frequency tone. To the human ear, it's inaudible. To the female mosquito, it's intolerable.

She hates it and leaves the immediate vicinity immediately. CFNY's high-frequency anti-mosquito tone. We transmit it 24 hours a day for your listening pleasure. So the next time you're bugged by those pesky bugs, fight back and turn it on. It's radio! The spirit of Radio. Making the summer of 85 the best ever.

CFNY 102. So there's an old promo. And why am I playing Spirit of Radio promo is because that Spirit of Radio era of 102.1 inspired this song right here. Here's some Neil on the drums here.

This, of course, is The Spirit of Radio by Rush. So we lost a great Canadian musician, and even though he was no Sinatra, he'll be missed. Here, let me give you guys a few more gifts here so I don't run out of time. Because normally, as I said to you, normally we'll go as long as it goes. But today there's a hard stop or, you know, my daughter will be alone and locked up in a daycare.

Well, we know where your priorities lie. I gave you the case of beer, but I also have a lasagna for each of you. Did you guys get lasagnas last time you were here? Yes, sir. Ate it, loved it. I was going to ask what you thought of the palma pasta lasagna so you loved it yep absolutely adored it remind me uh meat or veggie what did you guys have uh meat for me and it was delicious veggie for me and you uh may not know this but you were talking to two men married

to authentic italian women i i did not know that okay Okay, and what did they think of you? So this is high praise. We don't mean like, boy, I almost said something bad there. Well, I'll say it anyway. I don't mean Woodbridge Italians. I mean real Italians. We are married to two women. Born in Italy.

Born in Italy, yes. And do they still have their accents? Well, I would say my wife still thinks in Italian. And I know when things get a little stressful, she reverts to Italian. So Daniela was actually born here, but she did not even speak English until she was six years old. And she was raised in an entirely Italian environment. So might as well have been born Italian. So tell me how the Italians felt about the lasagna.

My wife, she likes lasagna very much. He has license to do that. I can. I can do that and Yiddish accents. Right. E' fantastico, signor. Molto bene. Glad to hear this.

So you're getting another lasagna each. Thank you. Outstanding. I was thinking of giving you one to share, forcing you to have a meal together. Like right now on air?

It's going to break your teeth right now. It's very frozen, very solid. Thank you, Palma Pasta, for being fantastic partners and helping to fuel the real talk. So thank you, Palma Pasta, for being fantastic partners and helping to fuel the real talk. So thank you, Palma Pasta.

Thank you, Sticker U. Hold on, there's a great note about something happening at Sticker U. On January 30th, there's going to be a party at the Sticker U location at 677 Queen West because they are launching a sticker museum and permanent sticker art exhibition. And who is performing there? Dr. Draw.

He's an electric violinist. He's fantastic. He's a mad Russian violinist, a virtuoso, totally energized. Now we've got something he can talk about finally. Well, we played together.

He doesn't know Steve Anthony, but Dr. Draw. No, but I'm impressed because I do know him. I've seen him perform. Yeah, he's great. I'm told he's cool and I'm shocked Ron knows him.

Okay, I could take that in so many ways. I kid, I kid, I kid. So, thank you, sticker. You each get, I think I might have given you one already, but you get another one. These are for you. Ron, your Toronto Mike sticker. I accidentally ate mine.

I had it after I had the pasta. Thank you. I don't recommend that. Neither do I. Here's a question. Can I ask you a question? Go ahead, anything. Are we officially FOTMs yet?

Yes, we are. I think we were before. I think it's by virtue of being on the first show. Oh, is that right? Yeah. I may have undone it today. He didn't explicitly say it last time I was here. What do you want, a tattoo?

I don't know if I coined the phrase yet. I'm trying to remember. It wasn't that long ago where I decided I liked this term FOTM for a friend of Toronto Mike. I've been using it like crazy and if people say you're using it too much, I just use it more. He doesn't have F-O-T-V-O A-G-N-D-A-S-P

Gesundheit. Yeah. I think the moment I take the selfie in the front of the house like that moment when the selfie is taken, that's the moment you're like anointed the FOTM. Okay, good to know. It goes into the NSA archive in Virginia. Well, you're the lawyer.

You can help us get it out of there. Okay. Now, I wanted to play a little message here. Oh, I like this part of the song. Hold on. Of salesmen. Of salesmen. So, Spirit of Radio Rush,

named after the radio station CFNY. Ron, have you ever played, by any chance, have you ever played with Banjo Dunk? That's this guy. He's Duncan Fremlin. He's in a group called Whiskey Jack. Have you ever crossed? You're kind of a classical music symphony kind of guy.

I don't know if you do any bluegrass stuff. I used to do bluegrass. I love bluegrass, by the way. And I was going to Mariposa and listening to those people before Steve Paikin was born. You weren't doing anything before I was born. We're practically the same age. That's true.

I think I was soiling my diapers at that time. But no, I've never had the pleasure of playing with or hearing Banjo Dunk, but he sounds great. Well, he's going to be at... So Whiskey Jack, they're going to present stories and songs of Stompin' Tom, and they're going to be at... Speaking of Moses and the city TV environment that helped inspire me, they're at Zoomer Hall.

So that's April 16th. That's a Thursday. 730 to 930, Zoomer Hall. And I'm just going to play a little bit of banjo talking about it. Banjo Dunk. Duncan Fremlin here. You know me as Banjo Dunk. And on April 16th, 2020,

I'll be bringing my band Whiskey Jack to Zoomer Hall in Liberty Village to host the 7th annual Stompin' Tom birthday celebration. This is the highlight of the year for our touring show, Stories and Songs of Stompin' Tom. This year, we'll be joined by FOTM and Funny Man Sean Cullen, as well as Great Big C's Murray Foster. More guests will be announced soon. The show will be broadcast live on Robbie Lane's nightly show on AM 740 and 96.7 FM. It'll also be streamed on the internet, but there's nothing quite like being part of the crowd when everyone stands to sing what is clearly our national anthem, the hockey song. It's not a large theater, folks, so get your tickets early. Go to hellooutthere.ca

and click on show to buy your tickets. We'll see you April 16th. You're not supposed to be crazy to write songs like that, but it helps a hell of a lot. Steve, did you ever interview Stompin' Tom Connery? I met him, but I never interviewed him. No. We have that in common.

Yes? Yeah, and you saw him perform, obviously. Yeah, I spoke to him. I saw him perform, but I didn't interview him either. Just so you know. And now it's too late. Yeah, alas. Alas.

I have some questions. So I opened up to Twitter. I said, if you have a question. Now, Ron, please don't be offended, but I got more questions for Steve than I did for you. Impossible. I don't believe it. That rarely happens.

The people have been brainwashed. So, okay, let's dive in here. Now, let's start a little bit let's some real talk here okay i like this one this is a comment from someone who goes by the name this is a music show hey mike a couple for stevie p he calls you stevie p i like that reflections on the conrad black interview also who instigated that interview there's a lot here so I'll do it all and then we can kind of... He wants to know who instigated that interview. Does he, does Steve think, giving a platform to Mr. Black to both praise Trump and turn a blind eye to Trump's BS, and for Mr. Pagan letting it slide more or less, was a good use of time? Does he think that had anything to do with Black's pardon? Also, I have a Bill Davis LP

for him. Just send it to TVO? Thanks dude. Looking forward to it. So there's a lot to unpack there, but let's start at the end there. How can he get you this Bill Davis LP that he has for you? If he wants to send it to TVO, that'd be great. Or if he's

in the city, if he's in Midtown or something, I'm happy to get it personally from him. That'd be terrific. Okay, yeah, I know what to do. I will DM you, this is a music show, and coordinate this with you, Steve, and get you this darn LP.

Now... On the Black interview. Let's talk about the Conrad Black interview. I presume he's talking about the last time Lord Black was on the program, which would have been... He was on a book tour. He was writing about his book.

I think it was called Donald Trump, A president like no other or something like that. And I would, I guess I would beg to differ with the characterization because I certainly, I certainly had numerous instances during the course of that interview where Lord Black looked at me and was a little miffed at how aggressively I was coming after him on some of the stuff that he was saying, because the book was extremely praiseworthy about President Trump. And I'm just somebody who follows empirically provable evidence, and I think there's lots of empirically provable evidence that Donald Trump is not worthy of that much praise, and I tried to suggest that to Lord Black. And anyway, there was a point in the interview where he said,

are you going to stop firing questions at me long enough for me to actually answer some of them? And it was sort of happily tense, but I thought it was fine. And happily tense can make for a good interview. I thought it was. I tell you, I've never done this before, but at the end of that interview, and in fact, I put it to him in the interview. I thought it was. I can tell you from experience. I tell you, I've never done this before, but at the end of that interview, and in fact, I put it to him in the interview. I remember saying to him, you know, everybody thinks you've just written this very complimentary book about Donald Trump so that he'll give you a pardon. And it got this long pause, pause, pause, and Lord Black said, no, I don't think I could accept

a pardon from Donald Trump. And then, of course, he ended up doing just that. And at the very end of the interview, which was a really good back and forth, I stuck my hand out and I said, I'll give you this. You're a great TV guest. And we shook hands and walked away happy. Was that on air? Yeah, yeah.

Yep. Okay, so in the perception of this is a music show. I think, well, I can't argue with his perception. That's his perception. But I would disagree. So you didn't turn a blind eye to the Trump BS. Okay. Now, it's interesting. Well, Steve's his perception. But I would disagree with that. So you didn't turn a blind eye to the Trump BS. Okay. Now, it's interesting Well, Steve's a journalist. I mean, it's

not to kind of be defensive here, and with all due respect to this as a music show, Steve's a journalist. If there's anything that is newsworthy, it's not only Donald Trump, but it's Lord Black, and it's Lord Black on Donald Trump. So you not only Donald Trump, but it's Lord Black, and it's Lord Black on Donald Trump.

So you got to do your job. And Steve's job would not be to attack or to take positions. It's to be as objective as possible based on the empirical evidence. So I didn't have the privilege of seeing the interview, but it sounds like you did your job. And if you... Can I use the word pissed off? Can I say that on air? You're not sure. Steve, do you want to say pissed off? No, you just did. It's okay.

Oh, I keep trying. I don't even think that's a swear word. It isn't? All these years I've been holding back. If you pissed off Lord Black a bit and you seem to have pissed off This Is A Music Show, then you actually did your job

because that means you went right down the middle and you were objective. Good point, Ron. I rest my case. His check is in the mail. I demand costs. Ken Franklin, actually, his question is kind of funny. He wants to know, to you, Steve, have you ever invited Toronto Mike on your show?

I can tell you the answer is no, but I'm just happy to see Ed Retro Ontario. Did you plant that question, Mike? As a plant. It's probably on Twitter as we speak. This may actually get to a, to a worthier subject of conversation, which is I don't pick the guests for the program. Maybe people assume that I do because I'm anchoring the program, but the fact of the matter is the executive producer and the senior producer and the producers who do the individual segments have to sign off on every guest that comes on.

So, you know, if I'm producing a segment, I don't just say... You can't just have your buddies on or whatever. That's exactly... As much as I might have a good time doing that, in fact, I'd love to do. I'd love to recreate this very scene in your basement in a proper TV studio. No, we do it here. But, yeah, I don't pay the guests. Okay, well, good.

Because, you know, I'm a big fan of, like I said, how is the cake baked? I like to peel back the curtain and see this. So, like, and I mentioned Linda's name earlier because I think she was doing, I don't want to get this wrong because I know she listens, but an internship maybe at TVO.

Okay, yep. And part of her assignment was to produce that segment on retro video clips or stuff like that. I remember it. Yeah. And she had heard Ed on my show and she heard how well spoken he is and how interesting what he's doing is, because I think he's doing amazing stuff. And he, anyways, she put the wheels in motion to get Ed on TV Ontario. She would have booked him. Right. She would have booked him and the exec producer would have signed off on it. Do you ever see something booked you don't agree with? I'm assuming

you would share your two cents worth. Well, here's the reality. You know, I do a program every day. And I don't find out about it until the night before. It's very funny. Last time I was in Ottawa all day yesterday for something. And one of the people

among the group that I was involved in doing this thing in Ottawa all day yesterday for something. And one of the people among the group that I was involved in doing this thing in Ottawa came up to me and said, so I guess I'll see you tomorrow. And I said, what do you mean? And he said, well, I'm on your show tomorrow. And I said, oh, didn't know that. I'll find that out. Did you get an email at some point that says, here's the lineup for tomorrow so you could do some prep or whatever? I prepped the night before. Yeah. So when I got home from Ottawa at nine o'clock at night, I got behind my computer, found out, oh yes,

Peter Lohan in fact is on the program tomorrow and we taped it today and I guess it's, is it on tonight or tomorrow? I can't even remember. Well, that's the thing. When I knew,

I knew the day Ed was taping and it was a long time before it, not a long time, but it felt like a couple of weeks or whatever. So I thought, I thought the turnover was quicker than that.

Is it sometimes quicker if there's something newsworthy? Sometimes we shoot that day for that night. Sometimes we shoot that day for the next night. Sometimes we shoot that day for two weeks hence or two months hence. Depends how timely it needs to be. Like if you were doing a Neil retrospective or something with drum gurus were going to come on and talk about the science of his, whatever, the proficiency of his drum kit and everything, you not you wouldn't shelve that for a couple weeks because

of the moment you might precisely you'd want to get that on right away if ron came on for example if we once a year i do a music show now once a year and i know that there's usually two or three elements in a music show and we can tape those elements anywhere from a week to two and a half months before the show actually airs. Cause there's nothing going to be out of date by the time that airs, right? We're talking about music, right?

So that that's why Ron, I gotta, I gotta pitch you for next year. Elements never forget. You got it. That's good. You got a new disc coming out next year or something. Okay.

Let's do something next year. Let's do it. All right. Okay. And now I love it. We closed the deal. I'm going to suggest to the executive producer that we have you as part of our music show next year.

There are great riches awaiting your executive producer if they agree. Don't say that. There are no riches whatsoever. That's okay to say. I like this question. Okay, this is by, who is this from? Hold on, I want to give credit to the right person.

It's from Gabby. Andrew. Andrew says. Gabby. Gabby. Like Toronto Mike. I like how he's comparing us, Steve. Like Toronto Mike, Steve is nothing short of prolific.

Seven books, a blog, and an hour-long weekend, sorry, weeknight program without commercials. Now fans are aware, now fans are aware of Steve's obsession with the Red Sox and Tiger Cats, but what we want to know is what we don't know about Steve Pagan. What does Steve like to do in his spare time that viewers may not be aware of? Well, when the agenda's on the air, there's no such thing as spare time. There really is not. It's a seven-day-a-week job. You're constantly reading research or books or writing a blog or getting organized for an upcoming podcast or, incidentally, I heard your Ben Merge podcast. Really liked it.

Oh, yeah. Good. Okay. So you heard the first episode with Humble Howard. Okay. The second one drops tomorrow morning. Not that kind of rabbi with Ralph Ben Merge. By the way, would you be interested in being a guest on the Ralph Ben-Murray podcast?

You know what? Probably not. And I'll tell you why. Tell us. Because I'm not that spiritual. And this is a show that really requires it. But Howard's spirituality was golf. I understand that.

I understand. No, okay. You could be Red Sox baseball. If he wants me to come on and talk about baseball and hockey and the spirituality of that, I'm game on that. That's fine. Yeah. No, that was very interesting, the way golf and spirituality merged.

See, I'm in a, uh, I have now witnessed six recordings where only one is out there in the public for you. So I've got kind of a, and yeah, it's a,

it's really interesting to just sit here as Ralph talks with somebody for an hour about spirituality. Like it's really, I found it very interesting as well. Ralph and I used to be on the same hockey team together 37 years ago. I think that's how I first met him. We played hockey together and then, of course, became friends over the years. Is that like a CBC team?

No, no. In fact, I'm playing in the same game tonight. He dropped out of the league, but I'm still playing. Wow. Well, he moved to some weird city. Yeah, some ridiculous city with a terrible CFL team. Hey, hey. Hi, Ralph.

Oh, Toronto. Ralph, we love you. Yes, we do. You know, I got to be nice. Ralph's here tomorrow. So Ralph, you know, he's a client. So I have to be nice to Ralph because he cuts me a check.

Okay. Sorry, did I interrupt? Where were we? Oh, yeah, you were just mentioning. Okay, so yeah. So there's no time. How about when the agenda's not? So when the agenda's not on,

I like to get out of Dodge. And I don't know if... Get the what out of Dodge? Sorry. Just get the heck out of Dodge. And I don't know if... Get the what out of Dodge? Sorry? Just get the heck out of Dodge. And I got... We're getting close, Mike. In Northern Ontario, they don't call them cottages.

They call them camps. And I got a camp on Manitoulin Island. And it takes eight hours to get there. But it is, for me, my happy place. It's that place and Fenway Park, the most glorious places on earth. You do need to do the podcast with Ben Murigy because that would be... Yeah, he just went all spiritual on us. Can I ask about this man too?

Is it... Okay, because I've camped many times at Killarney. Am I in the right neck of the woods? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's your... Yes, it's on the way. Killarney's on the way. Beautiful.

Yep. Yeah, I'm going to join you this summer. So I'll see you there, buddy. Probably not. Okay, here. So let'll see you there, buddy. Probably not. Okay, here. So let me just jig out. I thought Steve was going to reveal, disclose that in his private time he does needlepoint. No.

Needlepoint of deers. Don't know how to do that. Or antelopes. Do you know what? I did take piano lessons for about 14 years. No, not that long. Maybe 11 years when I was a kid and got to grade seven. So I wasn't very good,

but I really enjoyed it, really loved it. And someday I would love to come back to that. Maybe, would you teach me at some point, Mr. Davis, my second favorite? You're trying to put me out of a job. You know, Mike, did I ever tell you I wanted to become a broadcaster,

a TVO? Why don't you guys switch places for one week? That would be fun. I would be happy to teach you piano and then we'll find you someone good. Tyler Campbell, who helps me book guests on this show, and he's a great guy. He says, from one Trojan to another,

where's this going? What's the most indelible HSC memory? Oh, okay. All right. You know, my high school team were the Trojans. I guess a lot of high school teams were the Trojans. I guess a lot of high school teams were the Trojans. The reason I blank for a second is that they assumed the name the Trojans

I think after I left that school in Hamilton. So I don't think I ever... What were they called when you were there? Nothing. Condoms. Someone had to say it! Someone had to say it! Who invited this guy? It was in the room. It was floating. Yeah, I... That... who invited this guy it was in the room it was floating uh yeah i i i that that um eight so what does hst stand for hamilton hillfield strathallan college that's where i went as a kid

hillfield strathallan college and it was one of the most wonderful seminal influences in my life a wonderful school went there from kindergarten to grade 13. Yes, we had grade 13 back then. Went all the way through. And it was just a great, great place. Of course, I never lived in Toronto when I had kids. I never lived in Hamilton when I had kids, so none of my kids went there.

But my brother has three daughters, and they have all gone through HSC and have been the better for it. Okay, before I get to your next question, because, of course, normally, like I said, normally I'll go three, four, five hours. Steve, do you find, and Ron as well, do you guys find the episodes are too long?

I don't find that. I enjoy the length. And if I'm short on time, I hope this isn't heretical to fess up to this, I play them at double speed. Is that okay? That's a-okay him at double speed. Is that okay? That's a-okay. Pod fasting.

Is that what it's called? Yep. So you guys are familiar with the Humble and Fred show? Of course. You never know with Ron, right? I never heard of it. You asked if I'm familiar with it. Ron has no idea who they are.

I've heard of it. Ron, do you know who they are? Yes. They're two guys who are on radio and they broadcast a show okay what station did they work

for together back in the day the spirit of the radio oh my god oh I just guessed that's absolutely right good for you so okay

so I produced their show so we have these you know we have meetings believe it or not and Fred P Freddy P he says this to me

he goes Mike he goes I saw you had Sean McKenzie on I was interested to hear what he would say about his dad and everything but I saw it was and fred pete freddie p he says this to me he goes mike he goes i saw you had sean mckenzie on i was interested to hear what he would say about his dad and everything but i saw it was two hours long and he said i'm just not going to listen to a two-hour podcast so i said i said first of all his podcast is two hours but we'll just leave that aside uh i said fred i said what is the magic uh time length that you would actually listen to the Sean McKenzie episode. He said 25 minutes.

Okay. So, so this conversation continued because I said, you know, I, if you would put a gun to my head and said, cut out, you know,

an hour and a half of that episode, I, I personally, I wouldn't want to do that, but why doesn't he just listen to the 25 minutes? Well, he doesn't know which 25 minutes, like,

so there's a good idea. Just turn it on, listen for 25 minutes and turn it off. He doesn't know which 20. Yeah.'s a good idea. Just turn it on, listen for 25 minutes, and turn it off. He doesn't know which 20. Yeah, so anyways, this was a great debate where he basically, he who, you know, I work with the guy. He won't listen to an episode of Toronto Mike if he sees it's two hours long. He wants me to chop it up into a 25-minute episode.

No, no. That's the whole point of podcasting. It doesn't have to fit into a pre-prescribed time, right? I mean, think about the pieces you play. Would you ever say, oh, I'm not going to tackle that piece. That piece is 20 minutes long. I only play pieces that are seven minutes long. Well, actually, that's the truth. I thought that was the beauty of jazz, is that it's so elastic. Well, it can be. I guess it's the fact that there are no fixed times, so I could do as much as I want. And John Coltrane used to do that,

but how many John Coltrane solos have you listened to in the past week? Well. Several. But I agree that it's just to have that freedom, and it's what gives you content. Okay, it's not for everybody. Some people are short-distance runners.

They're not long-distance runners. So, you know, don't read War and Peace. Well, I said to him, I basically, we summarized it. I just said, Fred, I've come, basically, I've come to grips with the reality that the Freddie P's won't be listening and I'm okay with that. But they're aware I had Sean McKenzie on,

which is kind of half the battle right there. Although I couldn't get you to press play, I personally wouldn't want to sacrifice, but I'd have to sacrifice by getting it down to the 25 minute length that would get you to tune in. It's a different show at 25 minutes. It's a totally different experience. Actually, can I tell you, I probably shouldn't tell tales out of school here, but we do a podcast at TVO called the On Poly Podcast. And it's all, as the name suggests, about Ontario politics. And the first great argument I had with the brass there was how long could our episodes be?

And their position was nothing should be longer than a half an hour, which is, I think the gist of it was you should be able to listen to it on sort of an average commute. I've heard this, yes. And my attitude was the interviews that I want to do, I want to go, you know, I want to deep dive like you do. And you sometimes need a half an hour just to get warmed up. And I have had, if I may say, I mean, I've had cabinet ministers cry in the middle of doing interviews and you don't get that unless you establish a rapport. You nailed it, Steve, you nailed it. I always say that, you know, the stuff you get that you haven't heard before comes out after, you know, the hour and 20 minute mark. That's when it spills out. You almost have to do the hour and 20

to get to that sweet spot where suddenly Steve is swearing. You know what I mean? I feel like I'm going to cry. I'm just about to cry. You can do that. Just do it on the mic, please. Have you checked your Twitter questions?

There must be a question for me on Twitter somewhere. I have to make one up really quickly. Who's Ron Davis's favorite? Did you check your Twitter questions? I will check my Twitter for the Ron Davis questions. If we could take a moment here. You guys know, the reason you can get these long-form

Dave Perkins, Bob Elliott, all these episodes of Steve Pagan and Ron Davis, the reason these can exist is because wonderful brands and companies, they step up and they sponsor independent real talk. Hear, hear. Some guy in South Etobicoke's basement, right?

Amen. Right. Thank you. Thank you for the prayer. Now, you know, we talked about Great Lakes. We talked about Palm Apostate. We talked about Sticker U. We talked about Banjo Dunk.

But there's a new sponsor, fresh January 2020. They joined a local real estate group called the Keitner Group. And I've had some fantastic meetings with Austin Keitner. His brother Joel is there. There's some other wonderful agents there as well. But I took some questions from listeners. And if anyone listening has any question at all

about Toronto real estate, please DM it to me. I'm at Toronto Mike or send it to mike at torontomike.com. Here's a question that came in and Austin came by to answer it. So here's Austin. Welcome to another Real Estate Minute with Austin Kightner at the Kightner Group with Keller Williams. Michael asks, if a buyer wants to win a bidding war for a house, is it worth the risk to drop the requirement of a home inspection from their offer? It really depends how risk averse you are.

But ultimately, the best thing to do is to be cautious when buying a house because things can be very expensive. So you can get somebody to come in before the offer date so that you don't need the inspection condition because that is going to make your offer stronger and you're going to mitigate any risk you do buying the house. That is going to make your offer stronger and you're going to mitigate any risk you do buying the house. But for more information about things to look out for or how the process of offering and the best way to make offers and to mitigate your risk, just text Toronto Mike to 59559. And we'll send over a list of things to look out for and things that you can do to make your offer stronger. Ron, what part of the city do you live in?

Yes, since 1968, I've played piano. Did I answer the wrong question? You don't have to give me an address here. Like a neighborhood? Bloor and Dovercourt, wonderful part of the city. I absolutely love it. I was just, I say just,

I guess that's Bloor and Dovercourt. The Paradise Theatre reopened. I live 100 meters up the road from it, yeah. I was there because I was blessed by the great Dave. When it was a porn? You were there when it was a porn? You did the Dave Hodge thing there. Correct. I listened to that.

This guy's paying attention. I listened to that. That was good. Isn't it cool that when Dave Hodge wanted to reunite the reporters and do that at the Paradise, and he wanted it to be shared via a popular podcast subscription, he called one guy. And when that guy didn't answer the phone, he phoned me.

But I'm being okay. But yeah, so I locked my bike up outside the Paradise Theater. Oh, you were right down the road from me. I could have come joined you. I need to know if it was you now, because when I, afterwards, so it's all done. It was fantastic. I'm going to my bike.

No, the bike was there. Are you to my bike no the bike was there you ready for this the bike was there my 18 lighting system was gone so the it was dark i should point out because it was late at night and the bike was there which is great news but somebody had gone by and i i should take the lock the i should take the lights off and bring them with me but i was in a rush and i Okay. The lights were stolen off my bike in your neighborhood. Did you do that, Ron? I've been playing piano since 1968. Seven years ago, Steve compiled interviews in a book called Pagan and the Premieres. Oh, I remember that.

A personal reflection. I'm waiting for the movie. Mike, you're Canadian, right? Correct. We don't call them the premiers. That's how Americans pronounce that word. We call them the premiers. Oh, shite.

Burn. Okay, come on, Mike. Hold on, let me try it again. Local content here, come on. But at least I know how to say Neil Peart. There you go. Seven years ago. Whoa, whoa, whoa, okay.

It's a good thing you didn't talk about attorneys as opposed to lawyers. Seven years ago. I feel like Abe Lincoln over Okay. It's a good thing you didn't talk about attorneys as opposed to lawyers. Seven years ago. I feel like Abe Lincoln over here. We're trying this again. Steve compiled interviews into a book called Pagan in the Premiers. There we go.

A personal reflection on a half century of Ontario leaders. The book provides fascinating perspectives. Did you write this, Steve? Fascinating perspectives from Prime Minister John Robarts. His library scared me at U of T. To Premier Kathleen Wynne, who is on Ralph B. Murgy's podcast,

and I'm recording the conversation next week. Excellent. That's great. She has people, you know. You don't just, you know. I will happily listen to that one. You've got to go through layers of people to get to Kathleen Wynne. Okay. Are there plans in the works to update the book to include Doug Ford?

If not, how would he compare, how would you, Steve, compare the current premier to other PC premieres like Harris and Davis, Robarts and Eves? Okay, good question. No, no plans at the moment to update the book, but, you know, when Premier Ford finishes his term, maybe I'll revisit that. How is he different?

Fascinating in this way. I think he came into office as intending to be a very disruptive, outraged, populist, conservative premier. And I think after his first year of doing that, he decided, you know what? That's actually not working. And I think after his first year of doing that, he decided, you know what? That's actually not working. I think I'm going to try to go into the mold of John Robarts, Leslie Frost, Bill Davis,

and be a more pragmatic, moderate, progressive, conservative premier. And from these eyes, it looks to me like he has basically turned his back on the whole populist schtick, and he's become sort of a more traditional PC premier. That's how I see it. Would you say, can I ask a follow-up? So would you say that based on that and based on Maxime Bernier's wonderful result in the federal election, that populism is not really a force and doesn't promise to be a force in the near future in Canada?

You wouldn't say it's dead, but if you were going to go by the empirically provable evidence of the last year and a half, you would have to say it's in significant trouble. We don't have the same levels of inequality here that have apparently given rise to much of the populist angst and fury that we have seen in other places around the world. That's the conclusion I come to, and obviously if the facts change, my conclusion will change. But that's what I see so far. Would that apply to Quebec too? Quebec provincial politics? Kind of feels that way, doesn't it? I mean, again, you would never say separatism is dead, but you would say... Well, not the separatist part, the populist part. And what's going on in Quebec at the moment, especially with the COVID and...

Quebec's a distinct society, right? Indeed. It's different. Indeed. It's different. Ron, because I have this daycare situation. You should check your questions on Twitter. I have a question that's come in through Twitter here.

Really? Did a question come in through Twitter? It's from Ron Davis Music, and it says, why is Ron Davis so great? But that's me. So here. Steve, do you have a question for Ron? Because, again, I actually would love to go two hours with you,

but I'm going to have to get you back for another episode because I have a wrap-up soon. Don't put him on the spot like that. I'd rather hear him swear. Do you have a question for Ron, Steve? Ron, I do have a question for you. What swear word would you like Steve Bacon to... When's your next gig?

Oh, I love you, Steve. My next... Can I answer that? Two answers? Please. So one is on Tuesday, this coming Tuesday, Steve. My next, can I answer that? Two answers. So one is on Tuesday, this coming Tuesday, January 21st, I am doing a live soundtrack at the Jazz Bistro to Charlie Chaplin's The Circus, which is one of the funniest movies.

You will laugh your tushy off watching it and maybe even listening to my live soundtrack while I improvise it. How cool is that? It's great. Jazz Bistro, a week today? A week? Is today Tuesday?

Yeah. When did that happen? Yes, a week today, January 21st. And my next Symphronica show is February 15th at 918 Bathurst, and it's celebrating the music of the fantastic Canadian-Portuguese jazz composer, singer, accordionist, Louis Samao. So February 14th and January 21st.

Fabulous. My man. February 14th, you said? February 15th. 15th, okay. Yeah, you're recovering. It's a hangover kind of thing. From Valentine's Day.

Got it. Ron, before we wrap up here, do you have a question for Steve? Yes. And also, maybe, I know wrap up here, do you have a question for Steve? Yes. And also maybe... I know what the question is actually, Mike. The question is will you give me a ride home as well? That's the second question. So did Steve pick you up?

He did. He was very kind. He actually picked me up right by the paradise theater. But he was, I should point out, you were coming from TVO. Yeah. Gotcha. You didn't come from Hamilton to pick up. No, I've never owned. He lives in Toronto. I've lived in Toronto for 40 years.

Why do I think you live in Hamilton? Oh, Ralph lives in Hamilton. Ralph lives in Hamilton. Get your media people straight. There was a lot of Hamilton talk in this episode here. But do you have a question for Steve? I do. Get your media people straight. I do.

Obviously, the question I really want to ask is, what's your favorite swear word, and will you pronounce it slowly? But I don't want to put you on the spot that way. Why are you such a fantastic political analyst and so eloquent at political discourse when so many people aren't? Because you are. People are going to think I put you up to that, and I did not. That's a fair question.

I asked it in the first episode. That's not a fair question. That's a ridiculous question. I remember doing an interview once with Bob Ray when he was premier of Ontario. We were in the green room just ahead of time. And I said to him jokingly, so what's the first question you want me to ask you? And he said, how about something like, premier, tell me, what exactly is the nature of your genius? And I thought, no, I don't think I'm going to ask that. And so I think to myself, Ron, no, I don't think I'm going to answer that. Good answer. But nice try anyway.

You know what I can't wait to do? I can't wait to go back and watch how the Periscope stream went. Sonia, did it go okay? Sonia's still here. She gave me a thumbs up here. Did you want to come on camera or no? No. Do you want me to take my shirt off before we go?

No. Okay, gentlemen, I'm going to... Ron, thank you so much for doing this. Remind me, how did this come to be? I can't remember anymore. Somehow the two of us got to talking. Oh, I know, I know. I mentioned to you I had an email from Steve Pagan in which he said he was enjoying

episodes of Toronto Mike and I said, he's probably listening right now. And you, Ron, said something like, I love Steve Paikin and I remember your reaction. It was very,

can I say adorable? It was an adorable, genuine reaction. You seemed to genuinely love Steve Paikin. And then, I don't know, we were emailing,

I think, all three of us and then I said, you guys should come on together and here we are. That pretty much sums it up. And I, I don't know, we were emailing, I think, all three of us, and then I said you guys should come on together, and here we are. That pretty much sums it up. And I'm happy we did. It was a joy being back with you. Likewise, and there were no casualties yet.

No, dude, the pleasure of dudes. Am I allowed to call Steve Pagan and Ron Davis dudes? Yes, I just did. But the pleasure was all mine. I am going to get you back here, so you're not off the hook. You're coming back. Let's do it with Ralph. Let's do a threesome. Or a foursome. I am going to get you back here. So you're not off the hook. You're coming back. Let's do it with Ralph. Let's do a threesome or foursome.

I'm telling you. Ralph would love that. Are you kidding me? Ralph's practically here. He practically lives here anyways. And he does come from Hamilton, unlike Paken here. It takes me just as long to come from Yonge and Eglinton as it does for Ralph to come from Hamilton. And that brings us to the end of our 570-second show.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Steve, you're at SPakin. S-P-A-I-K-I-N. Ron, you're at Ron Davis Music. Indeed. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta.

Steve, when you're on the agenda, do you say pasta or pasta? I say goodnight, Dick. Say goodnight. That's a 1967 reference. Rowan and Martin's laughing. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, Goldie Hawn was on that show. You bet.

Nice. I'm older than I look. I'm older than I look. She played with Rush. I think her daughter did, but that's a whole different thing. Sticker U is at

Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at the Keitner Group. At Keitner Group dot com. K-E-I-T-N-E-R group dot com. And Banjo Dunk is at Banjo Dunk with a C. See you tomorrow when my

special guest is Ralph Ben-Murgy. Woo-hoo! Woo-hoo! Ralph! Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day. But I wonder who. Yeah, I wonder who. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone.

Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RomePhone.ca to get started.