Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Steve Paikin: Toronto Mike'd #1115

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

In this 1115th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined by Steve Paikin as they catch up, discuss his new book on Canada's 17th Prime Minister John Turner, and countdown Steve's favourite Toronto Mike'd episodes of all-time. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 100, sorry, episode 1115. I lost a thousand episodes there. Of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business.

Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Electronic Products Recycling Association. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. And Canna Cabana.

The lowest prices on cannabis, guaranteed. Over 100 stores across the country learn more at canna cabana.com today returning to toronto miked is the host of the agenda on tv oh steve bacon hi mike welcome steve delighted to be back i been thinking, since you got back in the calendar, I've been thinking of what could be like your catchphrase or it could be like a byline on the agenda. You ready for this? Shoot. And I'll just say, I credit this of course, because a fairly recent guest on Toronto Mike does, Spider Jones. So you ready for this? Okay. You might know where I'm going, but here I'm going to go there anyway.

What's shaken but the bacon? You know, I can't give you full marks for originality, and I'll tell you why. I used to work at a radio station called CHFI. Yes, I've heard that. And I was the City Hall reporter there. This is 40 years ago, and I used to walk into the newsroom after going down to City Hall, covering off my beat, seeing how everything was. I'd walk into the newsroom, and down to City Hall, covering off my beat, seeing how everything was. I'd walk into the newsroom and Mark Henderson, who was the newscaster in the mornings, as I would walk in, he would every single morning say to me, hey, what's shaking, Pagan?

Okay, close. But I'm going, what's shaking above the Pagan? I know. And I'm doing it in my Spider Jones. But yeah, same spirit. But I knew there's nothing new under the sun. Yeah, same spirit. But I knew there's nothing new under the sun.

But I thought if the agenda wants to take that, it could be a way to attract younger viewers, maybe, get those millennials in there. I'll give that all the consideration it is due, Mike. And you know what? Every time I'm here, I try to think about the significance of the numbers. And you said we're show 1115. Yeah. And it reminds me that one of my favorite Maple Leafs of all time

was Inga Hammerstrom, who wore number 11. Wow. And I saw Pat Boutette at favorite Maple Leafs of all time was Inge Hammerström, who wore number 11. Wow. And I saw Pat Boutette at an event last week, and he was number 15. So this is my way of remembering what number show this is. And I'd say this is also George Bell Lloyd Mosby. You could do that, too. That's right. And that's two-thirds of the greatest outfield.

Well, you know, it's all arguable, but one of the great outfields of this franchise for sure. Raphael Devers and Kevin Millar. There we go. Hold on, those questions are coming. So here, let's get this out of the way, because Craig M. writes me and he goes, I could be wrong. We're going to find out in a moment.

But is his birthday tomorrow? I know it's soon. So Craig M. has multiple questions, including one about your Red Sox, but is it your birthday today? No. Okay. Craig, what are you talking about?

Not tomorrow either. He may be confused. Is it this month? No. Okay, Craig, come on. My brother turned 60 three days ago. I wonder if that's what he's thinking. I don't know.

Craig M, explain yourself. But Craig also wants to know what happened to your Red Sox this year. Well, they came last, and they're going to come last. But I like to remind everybody it's been a good century for the Red Sox. I think they've won more World Series than any other team. Okay, good for them.

You know how I feel about your Red Sox. I do. I do indeed. Craig M. also enjoyed you in Dobigin on the Fan 590. Now, I listened to your Scott Metcalf show, and I noticed that we didn't make the cut. Dobigan and Pagan didn't make the cut. A lot of greats didn't make the cut.

I was thinking afterwards about dear FOTM Don Landry. Like, I'm like, oh, did we? You didn't talk about Don Landry. And I know Scott thinks the world of Don Landry. I think if Scott had his way, Don Landry and Gord Stelic would have been like the morning show still

on the Fan 590. That was an interesting episode, though. Boy, that Scott Metcalf knows a lot of stuff, eh? He goes way back. Good for him. And he's like yourself. He does his homework. We'll get into that.

But you have actually done homework for this episode. I have. But there's a lot of ground to cover before we get there. Irene wants to know, how's your knee? You know, it's okay. It's okay. Well, what happened? Remind us.

What happened to your knee? You know, no one cares, Mike. No one cares. Suffice to know, it's okay. It's okay. Well, what happened? Remind us. What happened to your knee? You know, no one cares, Mike. No one cares. Suffice to say, it's getting there. Little blood clot. Was it an, oh, a blood clot. Yeah. Okay.

So how does Irene know this? Is this from, was this an episode of The Agenda that I missed? Unlike Irene, you obviously don't watch The Agenda or read any of my columns because I wrote two columns. Oh, yeah. On my interactions with the healthcare system, which were not fantastic. And we did a show on this as well. Right.

On the difficulties of getting primary care. I've been exposed. So even though I listen to almost all of your shows, I'm devastated about the fact that you clearly read nothing of mine or watch anything of mine. I show up for the fight, Steve. We'll get to that later. Okay, okay. George wants to know, how come you are not hosting any debates between John Tory and Penelosa?

Are they having any? I don't think so. I don't think. I have not heard any details yet about anything being organized. Okay. But I'm happy to do so. I remember, what year was this? 2010, the mayor's race that year.

Rob Ford, George Smitherman. Rocco Rossi. Rocco Rossi was there. Right. Was Joe Pannelloni in that crowd too? I think he might have been. Anyway, I did a bunch of debate moderating that year, but so far nothing this time.

I may not listen to every episode or watch every episode of The Agenda, although I should, and I think it's fantastic, but I do think you're the finest moderator this country has to offer. You're an excellent debate moderator. Well, thank you. I must think it's fantastic but i uh do think you're the finest moderator this country has to offer you're an excellent debate moderator well thank you i must say it's it is the most nerve-wracking experiences i've ever had in my so-called professional life definitely is and you keep coming back for more more punishment well you know if they ask it's an honor to be asked so if they ask i don't say no right that's why when i ask you to come on toronto mike you say let's have what an honor right it's an honor to be i have to make the

drive exactly right and i stopped allowing you to zoom in so now you have to get your ass better i get a chance to see you in person which is great just see how you've managed to keep that youthful glow i do it because uh i'm i don't know i feel like i'm aging and then now sometimes uh when i'm reading computer stuff especially in the morning when my eyes are kind of tired or whatever, I'm like, oh, I don't think it's in focus anymore. Like I'm thinking I might have to throw in a pair of glasses or something. How old are you, Mike? 48. You're 48.

Okay. How come I'm 14 years older than you and you are totally gray and I'm just starting to go gray? Well, yours comes out of a bottle, right? Was that at Shoppers? No, sir. I'm the only person on TV not coloring my hair. Oh, great for you. But no, no actually you have a nice distinguished gray i think if i had that kind of gray you know i might be working in the states on a big shot news network by now but who knows well i'm gonna ask you about someone who went gray in a moment but i'm gonna crack this

great lakes beer open right now oh that's a nice sound. That's good. Well done. See, sometimes I give clear instructions to my guests to pop it open on the mic and they're all way down here. I'm like, no, like right in front of the microphone. Like, what?

Come on. This is how you do it. So thank you, Great Lakes. Are you going to drink beer during this? Yeah, trust me. Really? Because we're going to talk

a little politics and I will just tease the audience, the FOTMs. We're going to count down. I don't want to... is it the top 10, your top 10 favorite episodes of Toronto Mic'd? What are we doing? It may end up being more than that,

but we basically, here's the homework you gave me. You basically sent me out and said, let's talk about your favorite episodes of Toronto Mic'd over the years. And I said, okay. And the way I've got it organized here is by categories. So you can ask me your favorite sports episodes. Oh, I love this.

Your favorite episodes dealing with controversy. Can I give a little background? We're very transparent on this show. Sure, sure. This is funny because you've been on Toronto Mike several times, right? Yeah. I got an email from the publishers of your new book. What's the name of your new book?

It's a book about the former Prime Minister of Canada, John Turner, and it's not surprisingly called john turner an intimate biography of canada's 17th prime minister oh that's wendell clark's number yes it is okay so john john john turner okay and he died uh he passed away two years ago yesterday two years ago on monday of this week so two years ago on the 19th yes which is also known as yesterday now oh well i don't know when people are going to be listening to this. Oh, I know, I know. You're a professional. I just, I don't care.

I timestamp it. We know what's going on. But I do, okay, a couple of places I want to go here. Firstly, the publisher reached out and said, would you consider, I didn't copy and paste the exact, but it was very polite, and it said, would you consider speaking with the author of this book? And it's Steve Paikin.

And then there's a little blurb like selling me on you and it's like uh i guess they don't mr pakin is a host of whatever on the agenda he's been at cvo prior to that he was whatever whom you clearly have never heard of i will tell you a little bit about him and then i wrote back we're shaking but the pagan no he's like it's like and pakin has written 4 000 books and this latest one is a passion and actually i have a blurb on the book later. But I think I wrote back something to the effect of, like, oh, you had me at hello. I would have Pakin on every week if he wanted to drive over. It takes too long to get here.

You're 50 minutes away, 5-0. My goodness. That's an indication of how much I adore you, that I'm prepared to drive 50 minutes to get here. Well, we've got to sell some books here, Steve. And then I saw a couple of things happen. I wrote back and I just, and I'm kind of used to this now where it's like,

oh no, do I have to book this? This is happening with Farah Nasser right now where the chorus PR people are trying to like micromanage the scheduling and everything. Meanwhile, Farah and I literally text each other and in a heartbeat, in fact, we had it in the books, and then she said, I got to go to London. Somebody just died. I'm like, oh my gosh, who died?

The queen died. Oh my goodness, we'll talk about that in a minute. But like, so it's like, I'm trying to be nice with chorus PR because I know everyone's got a job to do. Meanwhile, I'm just, it's so much easier if you get out of my way and let me deal with Farah. And then for you, I kindly wrote back the book people

and I said something like, would it be okay with you if I just deal with Steve directly? And they were like, oh yeah, no problem. Just let us know when it's scheduled for whatever. And then I wrote you and I think something like this. I said, and I don't remember exactly what I wrote, but I know what I felt, which was that,

oh, I can't do 90 minutes on John Turner. Like I love this Steve Paken guy. What a valued FOTM,, oh, I can't do 90 Minutes on John Turner. Like, I love this Steve Paikin guy. What a valued FOTM, but like, I don't have it in me. I want to hear why he wrote about John and I want to hear some, you know, more about the book. And I want him to sell like a ton of books. I want Steve Paikin to sell so many John Turner books. But at the same time, I said, okay,

we got to talk about other things too. And then I came up with that, like, best of Toronto Mike as per Steve Pagan. Yes, we can't just talk about a man who became Prime Minister of Canada. We also have to talk about Mike. And I said, sure, why not?

Why not? Well, I listen, listen, you know, I listen to your podcast, so I'm happy to put my favorites on the record. Why not? So rapid fires, before we get back to John Turner,

and then we'll, you know, we'll close this episode with this countdown, which I'm excited about. But do you have any thoughts yourself on this, I won't call it a controversy, but it depends whether you like

or dislike the man, but what you thought of it, I think. But the Bohemian Rhapsody gate, can I call it that? But when John Turner, it was another JT actually. Different JT. JT, actually. Different JT. JT.

What number is JT? 20? What is he at? 23. 23. I should have known that. Okay. Justin Trudeau, controversy.

Eddie Shaq. Yeah. And Mitch Webster. Do you remember Mitch Webster? Mitch Webster. That's a little more obscure than Eddie Shaq, for me, anyway. You're absolutely right. Clear the track.

Here comes Pagan. What say you about the Trudeau BohBohemian Rhapsody thing? I have little to say about it other than there have surely got to be more important issues in this world to discuss at the moment. How's that? Amen. Okay.

T.O. Resident. This is an important question that T.O. Resident had. How can the public hold political leaders accountable when so many of them avoid the media? Oh, he goes on. I got before you. Doug Ford, John Tory, and many others only appear in public for photo ops and teleprompter speeches. Okay. Well, first of all, I don't think that's true about the mayor of Toronto.

I think every time the mayor does a news conference or makes an announcement, he takes a lot of questions from the media, and he does one-on-one interviews with the media all the time. I know he's done many with us, actually, during the course of COVID and so on. So it's not accurate about John Tory. It is a little bit accurate about Doug Ford in as much as we have asked him now for, well, more than four straight years to do a one-on-one on the agenda, and he has declined, although he has given one-on-one interviews to many other people. I think part of the difficulty is those interviews with other people tend to be three, four, five minutes long.

We tend to do interviews that are 20 minutes long, and, you know, for whatever reason, his people don't seem to want to let him do that. But again, in fairness to Mr. Ford, during the last provincial election, he would make announcements on an almost daily basis, and he would stand by for a half an hour's worth of questions from the media, so that's not completely true. It may be completely true about Pierre Polyev, the new leader of the Conservative Party.

I don't believe he has done any one-on-one interviews during the course of his leadership campaign. He might have done one with Rebel News, I'm not sure, but I don't think he's done any with the so-called legacy media. It's a tradition after you win the leadership, the following morning, you have a press conference and just sort of reintroduce yourself to the Canadian people. He did not do one of those. Had a bit of a shouting contest the other day with David Akin about whether or not he was going to take questions after his announcement, because I think the original plan was not to take questions. So David Akin was trying to make sure that he did. Anyway, we'll watch that unfold as it goes along. And there's a follow-up from Sad Cantaloupe. I can't imagine cantaloupe being sad, because it's like a cheerful brunch.

You have it with brunch and it's delicious. Okay. Excellent question for Steve. And a follow-up, and this is a follow-up to what T.O. Resident wrote. Said media, again, I'm Sad Cantaloupe here. Said media clearly has conservative leaning views. When they get the opportunity to hold leaders accountable, they don't. Unless the politician in question has the last name Trudeau.

What do you want to say to Sad Cantaloupe? I appreciate that we live in a time when many members of the public seem to think that many members of the media either have it in for or are in the tank for one politician or another. And, you know, sorry, I mean, I've only been in this business 40 years, and maybe I'm part of the problem, but I just don't see it. I don't see it. I don't believe it. I think the vast, vast majority of members of the media are equal opportunity get-afterums. And what does one say? But I know that by saying that, I will probably be able to convince nobody who already firmly believes in their guts

that the media is in the tank for or is determined to destroy candidate X, Y, or Z. So, Mike, I don't know what to say about that. Other than I just, I don't, I believe in my heart it is not true. And you're telling me the truth. You have never dyed your hair. Right. Period.

Full stop. I believe you. Why would you lie to me? I believe you. It looks great. I can't believe, for a man of your age, 76, what, 77 years old, you look fantastic. You should meet my dad because my dad didn't start to go gray until he was in his 60s and now I'm in my 60s and I'm starting to go gray, so I can thank him for that.

And you're a grandfather. I am. Okay, wow. Not a lot of grandfathers have full pigmentation in their hair. Yeah, I'm losing my hair, but what's there is... So where are you losing it? Because that's the greatest fear I have. Where are you losing it?

I guess it's getting thinner up top, yeah. I did notice at the funeral, I saw a couple of minutes on the news and um i mean well william is like super bold but i mean his brother who i thought was holding on not with those aerial shots man that guy's got the uh the ring of doom going on up there the aerial shots are just uh murder for those of us who i welcome them you're doing fine up there you got nothing to complain about brian gerstein oh great friend of the show. He says, I appreciate it. This is for you, Steve.

I appreciated your advice and voted provincially for an independent not to waste my ballot. How can we encourage the best of the best to run for office in this over-scrutinized media age? Somehow our mayor in Vaughan, and I can't even say the name right, Maurizio... Bevilacqua,

who is not running again, was an exception. What do you want to say to Brian Gerstein? I think the answer to his question is in the question. We live in a toxic age. I suspect if you want to get the best and the brightest running for public office, it might be a good idea to be a little less toxic on social media. That would be a good start. Legacy Media also might do a nicer job

focusing more on the serious as opposed to the trite, which we are guilty of from time to time. But you know what? I still take my hat off, and this may be a silly thing to say, but I still think it takes guts to put your name on a ballot, and so I take my hat off to anybody who's prepared to do that. I don't know about you, Mike.

I will not have the courage to do it. I know you've had Amber on this program before, and she's doing it. I congratulate her for giving the voters in her constituency a choice on election day. So yeah, there you go. It's especially difficult in municipal politics to defeat an incumbent. Yep. My good friend Diane Sachs is running. There's no incumbent in that race. She's running municipally now.

Right. That's great. And there was a moment in time. It didn't last long. It was about 24 hours. But there were two FOTMs in that race because Ann Romer was in that race for about 24 hours. Well, do you consider Stephen Del Duca an FOTM?

Oh, my God. Yeah. He's not running for city king. He sure is. In that riding? No, he's running in Vaughan. He's running to replace Maurizio Bevilacqua. Okay, I meant in that exact riding to become a city councilor.

But yeah, there's a no. Then if we include that, then yeah, there's Amber Morley's running. There's a bunch of FOTMs running. But I wish I could vote for Ben Kerr, but this option does not exist. Do you need to remind? Maybe you don't need to remind your listeners who Ben is, but Ben ran for mayor, I don't know what, 20 times or something?

Yeah. And I think he finally died, did he not? Oh, he died a while ago. Yeah, he did. But he used to play his guitar at the corner of Yonge and Bloor. I used to see him down there and he was just a great guy.

He was never, we were never in danger of electing him the mayor of Toronto, but he was a good, fun guy and participated in the democratic process, which we like, because as John Turner, 17th Prime Minister of Canada, once said, democracy doesn't happen by accident,

Mike, you have to participate. And if we don't participate, then we get what we get. We are this close to discussing that masterful and engaging biography. Can't wait to get to it. But very shortly, we missed you, Mr. Pakin, at TMLXX. I was up north.

And how was that? That's Manitoulin Island? Yes. Is that where you were? Sounds wonderful. How was it? Manitoulin Island is a phenomenal place. It's the biggest freshwater island in the world.

And in a way, well, you know, life in Toronto is very, very hectic and busy. And life on Manitoulin Island isn't. Which is why I like it there. I've got a little place with my wife in the suburbs of a village of a hundred people. Not in the village of a hundred

people, but in the suburbs. Because you didn't want that downtown rush. Exactly. The traffic is terrible. There's no stoplight in the town. And it's funny you say that because I know one time we were driving through the village that we're on the outskirts of, and there were probably three cars on the main drag. And I looked around and I honestly said, holy cow, can you believe all the traffic today? It was three cars. That's it. Volume, volume, volume. This is a fun, interesting question that i go back and forth on myself and at the end of the day i realize i'm just not the target audience for this but the coverage of the

queen's death seemed to me to be excessive but then again i mean again i'm not a monarchist i'm not i don't think we should have uh even symbolically i don't think we should have, even symbolically, I don't think we should have a monarchy rule in Canada. And what I saw was... Well, we don't, of course. We don't have monarchy rule. We have a constitutional... I said symbolically, though. Symbolically. I know it's a figurehead.

But even the fact that this, you know, that figure... Symbolically, the monarchy has power in this country, even if it is a figurehead. Like, I don't like any of it. And then, sadly, Elizabeth II, Queen Elizabeth II, at 96 years of age, passes away from natural causes.

And then there's 11 days of seemingly nonstop coverage of this event and then culminating in a funeral yesterday. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. What say you, Mr. Pakin? Is there any depth to which you will not go to give a shout out to an FLTM? No, sometimes I bite my tongue. I'm thinking if someone's telling me something like,

I don't know, their brother just passed away or something. No, I bite my tongue. I'm thinking if someone's telling me something like, I don't know, their brother just passed away or something. I bite my tongue. I pick my spots. Well, Mike, here's how I'd answer that question. And the answer is media tend to cover what people are interested in. Now, as you watch television, would you say that there is some interest in the fact that

Queen Elizabeth II has died? Yes. Yeah, I would too. So I'm not going to be completely shocked that there's been wall-to-wall coverage. I think if David Beckham wants to stand in line for 13 hours to pay his respects, that's some indication that you don't have to be an 80-year-old monarchist, old fuddy-duddy. But he's British. Well, okay, but he's British, but he respects the Queen's service. And I think a lot of people who may not be monarchists respect the woman's service. lot of people who may not be monarchists respect the woman's service she did the same job for 70 years and you can probably bet that someday she woke up and wasn't in the best of moods and didn't

want to do the job but had a sense of duty and therefore did it anyway and so i'm not surprised the queen's not surprised but 11 days i mean you know it's what would 10 make you feel better is that the problem 12 12 would be completely outrageous? I don't know. This is probably 95% of the people in the world today have only known this queen at the head of the British throne. That's true, probably. And so everybody has, not everybody,

but almost everybody has a bit of a connection to her, whether they liked her or didn't. They can to her, whether they liked her or didn't. They can respect her, whether they liked her or didn't. So I did send a... I think I tweeted something to the effect of, we're on day nine of wall-to-wall queen death coverage, and I said, I only lasted nine minutes, okay? That's a very personal statement.

And somebody replied back, a woman who said they had been following me forever and loved my tweets, but that they were so disappointed in me. And they threatened to unfollow me for that tweet. And I thought, oh, this is like a third rail for some people. Like, you know, don't mess with the queen. First of all, welcome to my daily existence because I get that kind of feedback every day where people say, oh my gosh, how could you have that person on the program? I'm never watching again or never speaking to you again or whatever.

Oh, you had Steve Simmons on too. No. Actually, I don't. We haven't had, if we've had Steve on, we haven't had him on in a long time. I booked him today and I tweeted he was on. And I just, right now before you pulled up, I was reading a tweet from somebody that said they love my show, but why would you have this clown on? And there was like a GIF, a why GIF.

And I was like, oh, there's 1,115 of these things. They're not all going to be winners for you, but go ahead. Yeah. McCowan has him on from time to time and he's always good. He was on with Dave Hodge the other day.

Your buddy, Dave Hodge, who I got together with actually, thanks to you. Did you know that no tell me this is amazing i well okay good then you reminded me of something else i'm gonna ask you after this i've heard dave hodge on your podcast numerous times and he's always brilliant and uh i think one time actually i emailed you and i said have you got contact information for him because i'd i'd sure love to get a hold of because i'm the way you keep in touch with these people you

actually are and we'll get to that once we go through all this stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah, spoiler alert. Yeah. And you were kind enough to give me his coordinates. I emailed him. We ended up getting together for lunch in Midtown Toronto, and it was great. And I had not seen Dave Hodge, if you can imagine this, since I was a University of Toronto student.

I mean, I remember, we just didn't know each other. Well, you're not in the mosh pits at Horseshoe Tavern. That is true. that is true that is true but i remember there was a time when he he came to the university of toronto to heart house yeah and i'm gonna say 44 years ago to uh give a talk over a lunch and i went to that lunch and i think so did michael landsberg i think he was there too wow and you know like dave hodge was the biggest name in sports broadcasting at the time. And we went, we listened, we learned, we had a Q&A and I actually asked him about that and he remembered it, which was fantastic. So I really appreciated having that chance to get together for lunch with him.

Okay. Love it. And before I forget, and before I pressed record today, I mentioned that Donovan Bailey was sitting in your seat like a couple hours ago. In fact, there's on the wall behind you is me on the front page of a section of the Toronto Star earlier this year. But two hours ago,

that picture was a different picture. It was Donovan Bailey crossing the finish line in Atlanta, winning the 100 meters in world record time. At the time, it was world record. And you mentioned you had a Donovan Bailey story. I did. When Donovan Bailey won that gold medal,

we managed to secure an interview with him for a show I did back then called Studio 2. Sure. On TVO. That show I watched every episode of. I'm sure you did. Good save. Well, Donovan, what can I say?

I think he'd been doing a lot of interviews at the time, and obviously everybody wanted a piece of him, and he came into our studio studio and he just, how do I put this, Mike? He just didn't want to be there. Oh, I've seen this Donovan. No, no, this, I know this man. Okay. So he had a bit of a scowl on his face and, you know, he was giving me, as I was trying to sort of ingratiate myself with him to, to, you know, warm him up. He was giving me one word answers and he was looking at his shoes and man, he just did not want to be there. Fortunately, I introduced him and then I said, Donovan, before I ask you the first question, watch these 10 seconds. Boom. We put on the race and I watched his face as he watched himself and the scowl completely disappeared and the smile came out and we had a wonderful interview together

and i just thought wow that was really good idea to play that clip off the top and and it was wonderful to see that transformation and we had a lovely conversation and that was don whitman with the call did he have the call fantastic yeah he sure did he was great so when he was on my show and i and i should say now that we started season three i've spent 21 tuesdays exactly with him in 2022 so i spent a lot of time with don mcbailey but when he was on my show. And I should say, now that we started season three, I've spent 21 Tuesdays exactly with him in 2022. So I've spent a lot of time with Don McBailey. But when he sat down with me, that was my idea too.

Like, let him hear the Don Whitman call and then talk to talk about the race. What was Whitman's line? I think he... Well, the second gold, it was... You gotta love Saturday nights in Georgia. That was the second gold because he won it with the four by 100 meter relay. Yeah, that was a great call. What a great call, by the way. He was uh love saturday nights in georgia that was the second gold because he won it with the four by 100 meter relay uh yeah that was a great call what a great call by the

way he was great at that a couple of quick hits here don't worry i can't wait to talk about um i'm hanging 17 prime minister okay because then we are going to kick out your favorite toronto mic episodes there's a lot of something for everybody here but a lot of uh well let's just talk about it lisa laflamme so you've never dyed your hair and lisa during the pandemic stopped dyeing her hair i've also never dyed my hair this is not believe it or not you don't dye it great i bet you someone's doing that but okay what say you about uh laflamme gate uh i'm dying to know what your take is on this situation. I don't really have a take on it other than it's unusual to me. Listen, I've worked my life in public television,

so I don't necessarily understand the culture of private television. But I always thought that if you were doing a good job and you kept your show number one, that you probably wouldn't get fired. But okay, so obviously something else is going on here if you were doing a good job and you kept your show number one, that you probably wouldn't get fired. Right. But okay, so obviously something else is going on here that, you know, either we don't know about or, you know, some other agenda. But I guess the one thing I'd say about it is, if you've got a bunch of public relations experts in a room together

and you ask them to create a campaign in which we're going to make the worst decision we can possibly make and we're going to defend it as appallingly and untruthfully as possible, could you guys please work out that campaign? And I'm not sure that they could have worked out anything worse than what they actually came up with.

Like it's just, I don't know. And Lisa's not, I mean, we're acquaintances. We're professional acquaintances. I've met her a few times. I certainly wouldn't call her a friend. In fact, I sent her a note after she got fired expressing my condolences and I didn't hear back from her. You heard crickets.

Yeah. But you had an address to send it to. So you're ahead of me in the game. All I have is a Bell Media address. Yeah. Well, truth be told, I had to ask her husband for her email because I didn't have it.

So there we go. It just shows. We're not friends. But the whole thing is, shall we say, passing strange. Right. And she spent the last 10 days or so reporting for a Rogers-owned outfit we call City, which is a, it's interesting that she's able to do that because when I talk to my friends Humble and Fred, they'll tell me that when they got fired, they were fired by Standard.

accept a job in the same market for a certain period while he was getting his, whatever it was, severance or salary continuance or whatever he's got. They were, and many others in the industry tell me, they're surprised that Lisa didn't have some kind of non-compete clause. And then there's a theory that Bill Brio floated with me that maybe she called their bluff, like, I dare you to stop me from working right now after this pr disaster you just went through well and i believe it's a temporary assignment with rogers right yeah yeah freelance gig no it's just so that might make a difference interesting times we live in

uh this also happened you're a hamilton guy yes os all I know. I'm familiar with it, yes. Another Hamilton guy. What a game last weekend, eh? I wouldn't know, man. I'm so unplugged. What happened last weekend? Well, the Ticats, like the Red Sox, are having a bad year, a really bad year. Okay.

I think they'd only won, gosh, have they only won three games this year? I think they might be three. I'll take your word for it. I think they're three and nine. And the defending great cup champions, who have only lost, I think, one game all year, came into Hamilton, and the Ticats smoked them. So go figure. That's why they play the games, Mike. Let's put it this way, Mr. Pagan.

I've seen more agenda this year than I have CFL action. Oh, I'm disappointed. I'm actually going to the Argo Alouette game at the end of next month. I went to the Hamilton Argo Eastern Conference Final. Eastern Division Final, I go. At the end of next month. I went to the Hamilton Argos, the Eastern Conference final, Eastern Division final, I guess, last year. I was there at BMO Field for it, and I enjoyed myself thoroughly, even though you guys won. Okay, so why am I talking about Hamilton?

Because Stephen Brunt is a hammer guy, and he's a good FOTM, and he's no longer with Rogers, and I wondered what your thoughts were about that. I saw that too, and I have not read the details around that. Was that, was his departure of his choice? No, no, no. He was notified in July that he would be, interestingly enough, I had Gare Joyce on this show last week

and Gare got caught up in the same cost cutting wave. He also has a, but he was strictly a writer where Brunt was able to do radio as well as, and then make TV appearances and stuff. But yeah, definite cost-cutting move by Rogers. I guess,

you know, I'll say it again. I don't really understand the culture of private television. I remember, I was telling you earlier, I was listening to your history of the Fan 590 CJCL

on my 50-minute drive to get here. The Scott Metcalf episode. Exactly. And it reminds me that Bruce Dobigan and I did do a show called Double Play on the Fan many, many years ago, 1996, 97, I think we did it. And I recall that one of the things they wanted to do was really really jazz up the troops and they rented a plane, believe it or not. And they took all the employees from CJCL up and flew around, like flew over Niagara Falls, flew over Southern Ontario. They handed out drinks, they handed out food. It was a

real, I mean, it was a great way to get the morale of the staff up and all of that. And I kid you not, two days later, they fired a whole bunch of people. And I remember thinking, I just don't understand the culture of private broadcasting because it would just seem to me that, well, that's nice. Yeah, you got the binder there.

Yeah, this is audio, right? I should tell people that Scott Metcalf left this with me and it's got the press release when they started going all sports and it's got the original lineup here. I don't see you on it, but I will just quickly say that I see Mike Inglis and Joe Bowen in the morning.

Then I see Mary Ormsby and the aforementioned Steve Simmons. Damian Cox and Gord Stelic, I recently reunited them on this very program. I know. Dan Schulman, you heard his audition tape in that, Scott McAfee, who also had had barb de julio on that show she's also an fotm mike hogan speaking of the cfl yeah love the argos working of the argos too jim richards and norm rumak had a show richard and rumak remember

storm and norman very well hammer head alert hammer head alert and the gm was john uh roe is that roe ray ray john ray thank you i don't have my glasses i told you about this uh program Hammer head alert. And the GM was John Rowe? Is that Rowe? Ray. John Ray. Thank you. I don't have my glasses. I told you about this. Program director, Alan Davis.

And executive producer and sports director, Scott Metcalf. There you go. Beautiful. Yep. Absolutely. It all just goes to show you that I don't really understand private broadcasting's culture because it would seem to me if you're trying to improve morale, you don't spend a lot of money taking people up for a plane ride

and then fire a bunch of them two days later. It seems to me like, again, you've already declared you work for CBC and TVO, so this will not apply to you, but if your priority one is shareholders, it completely changes the game, right? Because your priority one is not necessarily, even it's not producing the greatest

content or it's satisfying shareholder interests. Am I wrong? Let me make their argument, which is to say they would argue that you can appeal to shareholders and deliver eyeballs to advertisers by putting the best content on the air. You know, I've obviously worked in public broadcasting for my whole life because I believe they don't always do that. And I believe that we don't have the imperative of having to deliver eyeballs to advertisers. We have the luxury, I guess you could call it, of only worrying about whether or not we're creating good, meaningful, thoughtful, and yes, also entertaining content.

Well, you have to fulfill your mandate. Right, which is different from theirs. And vive la différence. Shout out to Polkaroo. Okay. Thank you. Dave Bedini was here last week. Yes.

So are you watching the, what is it called? Summit 72 is what they're calling it. The documentary series on CBC. I am PVRing all of it, and then I will binge watch all of it. I saw Robbie hart's documentary the other day and we are having him on the agenda this thursday along with scott morrison who's got the new 72 summit book out along with gary smith so robbie hart is the name you said robbie hart's got it he is the filmmaker who's made this documentary called icebreaker yeah okay so i'm

looking i haven't i know i'm opening it up right now in real time. I got this four hours ago from a Jeremy Katz. Bottom line is, the subject line is interview with Bobby Hart, question mark. And yeah, he's got Icebreaker, the 72 Summit series. He's talking about the screening. Great documentary.

Okay, now that we're talking. Mike, you're too young. You're too young to remember the 72 series. But I can tell you, I was 12, and it was the most meaningful hockey series I ever saw in my life. And this documentary, Icebreaker, is so good, it will give you chills. Okay.

Particularly if you live through it. Okay, I'm all in. You know, I had Scott Morrison on just to talk about 72. I love the 72 Summit Series, even though I was not alive for this tournament. I guess it's sort of like my 20-year-old, where I came down here the other day. We were going to the Terry

Fox run, and it's early for him, because I know this guy likes to sleep in. So it was 8 o'clock to see if he's up, and I heard music coming out of the washroom. Do you think I hear, do you think it's Post Malone? Do you think it's, what do you think it is? You know what it is? The Beatles. It's coming out of the bathroom Do you think it's, what do you think it is? You know what it is? No. The Beatles. Oh, that's great. Coming out of the bathroom.

And I'm like. What's good is good. You know, yeah. It doesn't matter if you were around for it or not. What's good is good. Okay. I saw Terry Fox. Okay.

Tell me that story. He had the, is this on Nathan Phillips Square? Where did this happen? Yeah, absolutely right. When he did his Marathon of Hope. And Siller gave him a jersey, right? Came through Nathan Phillips Square. There was a lot of people who came out to pay their respects to the incredible job that

he did. I still say no disrespect to Tommy Douglas, who obviously created North America's first Medicare. To me, the greatest Canadian ever, Terry Fox. He'd get my vote. Greater than John Turner. Yeah, I would say so. That's my segues here, Stephen.

I'm trying to compete with you professionals here. But when it comes to Terry, I raised, you Terry, I want to thank the FOTMs. We raised over $1,700 for the cause. And it was a great morning on Sunday morning. We were at High Park. I will say the digital fundraising efforts are strong. I had some conversations with people in the know. Because I was disappointed in the turnout,

the physical people showing up for the 9 a.m. Terry Fox run at Hyde Park was low, in my opinion, for the, really low, but the fundraising was strong online, but people aren't, they weren't coming out at 9 a.m.

to do the run or slash walk at 9 a.m. on Sunday. What do you think's going on there? I don't know. I didn't know if it's because, oh, maybe these people skipped it because you can't drive into Hyde Park anymore on the weekends. Like there? I don't know. I didn't know if it's because, oh, maybe these people skipped it because you can't drive into Hyde Park anymore

on the weekends. Like maybe, I don't know. And I was trying to think maybe because two years it didn't happen because of COVID, maybe there was a bit of a lag from that. And then I thought, well, maybe people are just like busy.

They don't, 9 a.m. on a Sunday, they're like, I'm sleeping in. You can have my money. I love the cause, but I don't need to be there for the run. I don't know. Maybe it's a bit from column A, B, C. I don't know. Did you walk or cycle it?

I walk. You walked it. Okay. I bike to it, and then the family meets me there. They rolled out. The only one absent was my daughter, Michelle, because she lives in Montreal right now. Michelle, my belle. Shout out to the Beatles. She always comes back to the Beatles. I know you want Frank, but...

Okay. So I'm going to read this, because this is impressive, and then we're going to get into why. Here's what I'm going to read right now. It is, In this masterful and engaging biography, acclaimed journalist Steve Paikin brings to life John

Turner, one of the most glamorous and successful politicians in Canadian history. Born in England, that's a fun fact, raised in BC, Turner was a champion sprinter just like Donovan Bailey. Yes, he was the fastest man in Canada once upon a time,

Mike. Oh, I think I heard that about Dana Levinson's dad. That's an amazing fact if John Turner was once, you're blowing my mind already. He's a Rhodes scholar who captured I wonder, that's an amazing fact if John Turner was once, that just, you're blowing my mind already. Okay. He's a Rhodes Scholar who captured the national imagination as escort for Princess Margaret on her 1959 Canadian tour. It all comes back to the monarchy. Always does.

Shout out Queen Elizabeth. Absolutely. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Elected to Parliament in 1962, he served in Prime Minister Lester Pearson's cabinet Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Elected to Parliament in 1962, he served in Prime Minister Lester Pearson's cabinet and as Pierre Trudeau's Attorney General, Minister of Justice and Finance Minister. In 1984, he won a hotly contested

Liberal Leadership Contest and served a brief four months as Canada's 17th prime minister before falling to Brian Mulroney in a progressive conservative landslide. In this surprisingly candid and personal book, Pakin draws on unprecedented access to Turner's personal and public papers to show how he struggled to meet the towering expectations that came with his abundant gifts and keep his faith in Canadian democracy despite the challenges of his own career.

Where do I get a copy? I can't believe this. That's very well written. And I didn't write that, but that's very good. That really sums up what the book is all about. So we can save our 50 bucks or whatever, our 30 bucks, and we can just read that.

You got the gist. Yep, that's all you need to know. Thank you and good night. Okay, the obvious question. Why this topic at this time? What drew you to the biography on John Turner? You know, truth be told, I had no interest in writing a book about anybody.

I had just finished 600 pages on former Ontario Premier Bill Davis a few years ago, and I was really tapped out. But then John Turner died in September of 2020, and a couple of his colleagues who'd worked for him approached me and said, you knew him, you covered a lot of his career, and I did actually cover the 1984 liberal leadership that you referenced. I was there as a kid reporter of 24 years old.

In fact, I might have turned 24 at the convention, actually. Yeah, but you've turned 24 like 18 times now. Thank you. John Turner and I had birthdays two days apart, so we'd go out in his post-political career. We used to go out for lunch on our birthdays together. And they suggested to me that because of my personal knowledge of him and because previous books had not interviewed members of his family,

his wife or his kids, or had access to his private papers in Ottawa, that I might be able to bring something different to the story. And they persuaded me. So here we are. But when you immerse yourself in somebody's work and their life and times, like that's, that's labor intensive. Like, so how long did you spend writing this? Well, they approached me in October of 2020. And here we are in September of 2022. And, you know, I guess I've been working on the book during that whole period of time and it should be out in bookstores in November.

So it's, yeah, took almost two years to do it. John Turner, an intimate biography of Canada's 17th prime minister. Is the foreword by Wendell Clark? It is not, and not Joe Clark either, no. I think, no, in all seriousness, one of the things I, as I started to think about what kind of story I could tell that might be more distinctive from anybody else's, it sort of occurred to me. John F. Kennedy becomes president of the United States in 1961. John Turner, who was our JFK, gets elected in 62.

This was kind of, it was the beginning of the 60s. It was a new generation. It was a youthful generation. Turner's only 33 years old when he gets elected to Parliament for the first time. And because, as you point out, he had that dance with Princess Margaret in the late 50s, you know, everybody knows him. He's a big name. And so many people thought this guy, well, this is so ironic that this guy would say it. Brian Mulrooney was a 20-something executive assistant on Parliament Hill when John Turner got elected. And he's having lunch one day in the parliamentary dining room,

and he says to his buddy he's having lunch with, hey, look, there's that new Liberal MP, John Turner. Let's go say hello to him. And Mulroney's buddy says, what for? He's a Liberal. We're Tories. And Brian Mulroney, age, I don't know what, 24, says, yeah, but he's going to be prime minister someday, so we're going to want to meet him. So people knew he was going places. He was the big man on campus from well back, and it's unusual because his life started in tragedy. His father died when he was only two years old, and his mother gave birth to what would have been a brother

who also died only shortly after being born. So he's born into a world of tragedy where his mother has to leave England, go home to British Columbia to raise the kids as a single mother and look where he ended up. Well, he was good looking. Yep.

Fast, apparently. I just learned he's a champion spinner. But most importantly, road scholar. I know what that means because I think Bill Clinton was a road scholar. Yep, also. But this is like, these are smarty pants. Okay. Are you a road scholar, Mr. Pinker?

No, sir. So why is it? I mean, I feel like when we look back, and I'm old enough that I do remember when he was prime minister, but he's kind of lost in that mushy middle, like between, you know, Pierre Trudeau and Jean Chrétien. Right. Well, that's because he didn't hang around for very long, right? He was only prime minister for 79 days. And as a result, you can't really look back at his prime ministership

and say, ah, that was one of his great achievements. No, his great achievements came being in the cabinet of the current prime minister's father when he was justice minister and finance minister. Let's put it this way. Abortion was illegal in Canada until John Turner became justice minister. Being homosexual in Canada was illegal until John Turner became prime Minister. He got a bill through Parliament that decriminalized both of those things. And, you know, he was a very staunch Catholic, Mike, and yet somehow he was able to look beyond his own personal beliefs and understand what was more important for the national agenda. And Pierre Trudeau had the great line, you know, the state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation.

But John Turner is the guy who actually got the law through Parliament. You know, I'm sold. Listen, so when exactly can we get our mitts on this book, which, by the way, is called John Turner, An Intimate Biography of Canada's 17th Prime Minister. I'm learning all about supply chains, Mike. And the reality is this book was written in Toronto

and Manitoulin Island, actually. It was printed in China, and it's on a boat over to Vancouver where it will be unloaded and have to make its way across the country. And thanks to COVID and everything else, supply chains are miserable right now. I really wanted the book to be available on the second anniversary of his death, which was yesterday, the 19th of September.

But because of supply chain problems, it won't be ready for a couple of months yet. And that's just too bad because I really wanted his wife and three kids. And you want to talk tragedy. He had four kids. One of his children died shortly after he did of cancer. Just terrible. Actually, I knew the guy pretty well. He lived across the road from me, David Turner.

And I really wanted the book to be out and available for the family on the second anniversary of Mr. Turner's death. But alas, we are not going to be able to do that. But hopefully, it'll be available before long. Can you do, it's funny because it's going to tie into music, not Frank Sin sinatra but different music but can you do like a uh here the the e-book is now available the hardcover will be is coming like can you do that in tears i mean or maybe that's a bad idea this is my eighth book

and i've never done an e-book but you're telling me maybe maybe i should start thinking about that well i'm gonna you know it's funny. Lowest of the Low were here. Well, Lowest of the Low. Ron Hawkins was here from Lowest of the Low, and I know that's not typically your jam or whatever, but he was with Steve Stanley, and Stephen Stanley was an original member of Lowest of the Low, but he's no longer with Lowest of the Low, Stephen Stanley,

but Ron Hawkins, of course, is still with Lowest of the Low, and I was just corresponding with Lawrence Nichols, and he was talking about how there's this delay getting vinyl pressed. And it's a significant delay so that they have music. But because now vinyl is such a key thing because there's no money to be made in digital music right now. I'm hoping it's not the same for books.

But in music, there's no money to be made because you've got to stream. How many streams you've got to get to make to get yourself a Starbucks coffee or whatever. But the fans, the super fans like me

will buy the vinyl and that puts money in the pocket of the artist or whatever. But there's a significant delay in that this new music can't get pressed and available until 2023.

Oh my goodness. I know. Supply chain problem. Well, you know what? It started, it's interesting, for the last 30 years, the world has been engaged in a sort of a globalization movement whereby we tried apparently to do more and more business with other countries around the world. Right. together, they won't go to war together. Although recent events in Ukraine may put a lie to that. But anyway, now, because of all the difficulties in supply chains and getting products over here,

there's a reshoring movement, not offshoring, but reshoring, where we're trying to do more business. We're trying to build more things here, create more things here, manufacture more things here. Like if you could print these books in Canada, we wouldn't have this issue right now. Well, whether they could have or couldn't have, I don't know. I can feel your pain because as an avid cyclist, there are parts I've been having difficulty securing.

To repair a bike I have sitting in my shed right now. Now we're on year three of my struggles to get these parts. I feel your pain. I understand. One quick tie-in between the Summit Series and Brian pain. Yeah, so we're, I understand. One quick tie-in between the Summit series and Brian Mulroney, who you mentioned,

and who was in the news yesterday because he made an eloquent speech about the passing of Queen Elizabeth II. He's very good at that. He's maybe the best we've ever had in this country. I remember his eulogy for Ronald Reagan and for Margaret Thatcher. Right.

I think maybe for George Bush, the father as well. Anyway, Mr. Mulroney is great at that. He was at Game Margaret Thatcher. Right. And I think maybe for George Bush, the father as well. Anyway, Mr. Mulroney is great at that. He was at Game 1 in Montreal. Right. So in the documentary I recorded to VHS in the mid to late 80s, it was called Summit on Ice, and I recorded it and watched it many times. And they don't actually mention that it's him, but you see Brian and Mila going to their seats when the game's at the forum.

Now, of course, Mr. Mulroney wasn't in politics at the time. He was still, I think, four years away from running the first time for the PC leadership, which he lost to Joe Clark. But the series happened during the election campaign in 1972. So Pierre Trudeau, who dropped the opening face-off at that game, was there. And so was Bob Stanfield, who was the leader of the PC party at the time. He was there as well. Okay, I love it. The more you know.

Okay, I want to get to this. So it goes without saying that I hope all the FOTMs support FOTM Steve Paikin because I think this would be an intriguing book. I think there's more than meets the eye here with John Turner. He's had the most, I've known thousands of politicians. There's nobody I know who had a story like John Turner. The highest highs, the lowest lows, the greatest thrills of victory,

the worst agonies of defeat, incredible disloyalty. He's got an amazing story. So yeah, I hope people will be interested in it. Absolutely. Can I do a couple of quick hits here before we get to the... Your show, baby.

Your show. I know. Whatever you like. Just clear your schedule. I need you for a few more hours here, but you're all mine now. Okay. One little note here.

So Global News is seeking more government funding. I have a couple of choice quotes here from Troy Reeb at Global News. He says, News is a challenging business. Traditionally, we have offset our news losses through more profitable entertainment programming, but this is no longer a feasible strategy. The status quo is not sustainable. The future of an entire Canadian industry is hanging in the balance. From your perch there at TVO, what say you about Cap in Hand, as Bruce Dobigin might

say? That was the name of a recent book he wrote. Troy Reeb from Global News. I know Troy a little bit because we used to be Queen's Park reporters at the same time many years ago. And then he left reporting and went into management. Well, I have his title here, so I should get this right since I'm in news now. Executive Vice President Broadcast Networks of Chorus Entertainment.

He has accurately reflected what has transpired in the news business across North America, which is to say, yes, once upon a time, corporations were prepared to lose money on news coverage because the massive amounts of money they made on their prime time shows covered off the losses. Now, either one of two things has happened. Either those prime time profits are not as significant and therefore can't cover off the losses as much, and I suspect that's not the case,

or the suits have simply decided that every division within the company needs to make money, period, full stop, and sort of damned our responsibilities to cover current affairs and news. I don't know which it is, because I haven't seen their books. I don't know which it is, but if primetime's still making oodles of money,

I guess I would ask, why can't it continue to subsidize news coverage, which to me is an important public service that these private companies perform in order to get their licenses? After all, they use the public airways and frequencies, which the public owns. They don't. So that would be my only question. And not only to subsidize the news, but also the salaries of these executives, because Troy Reed, sorry. Reeb.

Yes, with a B. Troy Reeb, he made $1.25 million at Chorus Entertainment last year, and there's five executives there making a great deal more with Douglas Murphy at the top of that. He made just a hair under $5 million. Doug's the CEO of the company, and he's a highly paid executive because he's got a lot of responsibilities. And my answer to that, not that you asked,

but as a guy who works in public television, my answer to that is, fine, you work in private television, you can pay your executives whatever the shareholders will allow, but it may be a bit precious if you're asking for public money for your wares. That's where I'm going with, that's what I'm trying to, thank you, you do it much better than I do, but that's what I'm just saying, It is interesting to see that, hey, we need money to support our news because we can't it's no longer a feasible strategy. Meanwhile, these are some monstrous salaries. And people

complain about your salary, Mr. Paykin. I don't think they do anymore, actually. Now, I remember when... Well, you're due for a raise then. No, no. What you're referring to is the salary disclosure laws of the province of Ontario, which have been in place since 1996, I think. The Sunshine List.

Yeah, the Sunshine List. So every year my salary is published. And I think initially people thought, it's outrageous he's making that much money. And then they realized the range within which people who host TV shows and write columns and host podcasts and all that, the range is quite vast, and I'm paid at the bottom of that range, which is appropriate because I'm in public television. You were making Lisa Laflamme money. I was never making Lisa Laflamme money. I can assure you of that.

Anyway, I'm paid near the bottom of that range, as is appropriate, because I work in public television. The people who do what I do in the private sector make at the top of the range, and that's fine for them because the advertisers and supporters are paying their salaries, and that's fine. Should Pierre Poliev win in 2025, let's say, will there be a CBC under his rule? Well, I don't know. What he has said is that he's going to stop funding a public broadcaster. So will there be a CBC? Maybe he'll sell it.

Maybe he'll shut it down. I don't know. We shall see. We shall see. Can't predict the future. Okay. Let's thank a few sponsors of this program here. This is not TVO.

This is Toronto Mic'd. And I want to thank... Pagan, do you ever smoke weed? Is that allowed? I'm just curious. When you're in Manitoulin Island and you're chillaxing, are you smoking a fatty?

You asked me this the last time I was here and I'll give you the same answer. No, I'm a little too square for that, I'm afraid. I don't think I've done that. Edibles only for you. Not even that.

I don't think, I don't indulge in any of that, but that's okay. So Mr. Pagan will not be going to Canna Cabana, but if you do indulge and regardless of how you consume cannabis, okay. So Mr. Pagan will not be going to Canna Cabana, but if you do indulge, and regardless of how you consume cannabis, you can smoke it, you can eat it,

you can drink it. That's quite in vogue these days. Canna Cabana will not be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories. So go to cannacabana.com. There's over 100 locations across the country. Your wife is of Italian descent. I'm sure this is all exactly what I said to you last time,

but you know a good lasagna when you eat one. And she, when I bring the palma pasta home, she really loves it. And she knows, she's a fantastic cook, and she knows good Italian food. And I know when I brought her home last time, she said, wow, that's really good. That's really good. Does she know where you are right now? Like, does she know you're on Toronto Mike and you're coming home with a lasagna? I don't think she does. No. I didn't. I don't.

No. In fact, because when I left for work this morning, this is more information than you want. Okay. She was, I think she was upstairs having a shower, so I didn't get to say goodbye to her and tell her where I was. So this will be a delightful surprise. Okay.

A big surprise. Yeah. Ridley Funeral Home has given you a flashlight too. So if I pull this out, this will work. I definitely need this for the cottage, Mike. Thank you. These are very, that's great. I bring them camping and the kids carry them at night and they love it.

Terrific. Thank you, Ridley Funeral Home. We get, thank you, Ridley. We get power failures up north quite frequently. So we need these lights. This is really good. You got one there. We're keeping you safe so that you won't become a customer at Ridley Funeral Home.

Not for a while. Not for you, but there is a cozy there. So if you're safe so that you won't become a customer at Ridley Funeral Home. Not for a while. Not for you, but there is a cozy there. So if you're drinking a cold beverage and speaking of cold beverages, I have fresh craft beer for you from Great Lakes Brewery who hosted TMLXX, which was a great time. The only way we could have had a better time at TMLXX is if Mr. Bacon made an appearance, but you were at Manitoulin Island. I was indeed. But I note with interest,

first of all, my favorite is the brand that you can't say on the radio. It's got bastard in there. I guess I just did say it. Well, this is not the radio. You can swear on the show. Okay, okay. Did you think you were on the radio, Steve? No, no, this is a live stream.

It's sort of the radio. We swear on this show. Yeah, I know you do, but I don't. Well, actually, if you notice. You drop, Michael, I have to, some days I want to take you over my knee you drop f-bombs left right and center all depends on my guest well have i sworn in this program no but with ebbsy you do all the time yeah because he swears like with and uh um wiseblood you you swear with him yeah you're right i do swear because with him it's more of like okay three hours i'm exhausted i'm running on fumes i'm drinking a lot of, and then yeah, the F-bombs drop.

You're right. But when I'm on with, and I don't want to steal anything from our top 10 list or anything, but when I'm on with like a John Biner, for example, no swears. He's 86 years old. I don't want to offend him. Not a single swear word will I drop. You know what? Shout out to John Turner because there's a chapter in my book about him called The F-Bomb. Mr. Turner loved to swear and he loved to drop F-bombs at the most inappropriate time.

Okay. So John and I have something in common. You sure do. Because we're both good looking and smart and we both swear. Yes. And I want to thank you as well for this GLB because I notice here you've given me a brand called A New England Pale Ale. Yes.

Okay. For your Red Sox. There you go. Thank you. Thank you. On, uh, on the behalf of the IPA,

on behalf of all of us, uh, Red Sox nation, uh, we, I, we, we offer a,

a hottie thanks for, uh, for the beautiful, uh, new England, a pale ale that you're offering us here. Thank you. Thank you.

Every time I hear that accent, I think of a mayor Quimby from The Simpsons. Well done, but I'm not quite done yet because I do want to thank- Oh, my sticker. Sticker you. There we go. There we go. You're worthwhile here.

I'm giving Mr. Paykin a Toronto Mike sticker. Beautiful. I've got one of these. From Sticker You. I have one of these that you gave me before on my notebook already. Take a picture and send it over. I'll share it with the masses. But thank you, StickerU.

And next month, I haven't given a lot of detail, but EPRA are on board as a new sponsor, and Cliff Hacking is dropping by next month to give more details as to how you can safely and ethically and properly recycle your electronics of the past. I'm sure Mr. Pagan here has gone through a few smartphones in his day. What did you do when you were done with a smartphone? They actually have a disposable...

Some kind of thing. When I got this latest iPhone, they take your old one and they... Okay, good. So they can properly recycle it. Yeah, yeah. Good. We need more people being responsible like you. So good stuff.

Okay. So I'm now passing the mic. Shout out to Beastie Boys. This is too, you know, I know you like your Frank Sinatra, but have you tried any Beastie Boys? I've heard of them. Tell me one song of theirs

and I bet I might be able to sing a few bars. Oh, pass the mic. Let's go. I don't know that one. Try another one. What's their biggest song? Oh, biggest song. Maybe Sabotage.

That was a big one. I don't know that one. You don't know that one? How about Hey Ladies? You got biggest song? Oh, biggest song. Maybe Sabotage. That was a big one. No, I don't know that one. You don't know that one? How about Hey Ladies? You got Hey Ladies? No, no. Or how about You Gotta Fight for Your Right to Party? You might know that one.

I've heard of that one, yes. That's way back. Okay. So we're going to go in categories. The first category, before I be quiet, because I want to hear this, but what are your favorite Toronto Mic'd episodes, Steve Bacon, from the category sports? Okay, you know that because you set this up. It's probably already an hour ago that you set this up.

But you said to people, we'll talk a little John Turner, but then also I want you to tell me, Bacon, what your favorite episodes of Toronto Mic'd are. And I said, okay, great. We're going to do this by categories. So you've hit me with sports. And now let me explain. I've got three episodes here that I want to bring to people's attention. Cox and Stelic. I do love the two of them together.

Stelic I sort of used to work with at the Fan 590, and not only that, his daughter used to babysit my daughter. Wow. And shut out Jesse. And Damian Cox grew up on the Hamilton Mountain, as I did, and we from time to time used to play road hockey against each other on Inverness Court. Because one of my best friends, who I still hang out with from time to time, lived in that neighborhood on the West Mountain. So Damien and I have a personal connection.

And Gordon and I have a personal connection. And this is not a very old episode. I think this happened like a month ago. It's more than a month. Maybe more. Maybe July. But it's in the past year. July maybe.

And I was on a kick because I had just had Rod Black and Leo Roudens on together and I was feeling this like power. Like I am God. I can reunite anybody.

And it feels so good. Yes indeed. Shout out Peaches and Herb. Yes. I can reunite anybody except apparently Hebsey and Taddy. I know.

I've been trying. I no longer try. Keep trying. At some point, though, Mr. Pagan, you must admit, you can take a hint when somebody says they're not interested. Like, stop. I said no. Leave me alone.

Let it lay a bit and then try again another time. Okay, so that's one. Okay, so yeah, it was slow this burn. So number one on Steve Paikin's list of favorite Toronto Mike episodes in the category sports is the recent reuniting of Damien Cox and Gord Stelling.

You're really dragging this out, aren't you here? I know. I got a long list here. We're going to have to go further or faster. Now, I don't know if these are all three tied for first because I can't say that I like Cox and Stelic more than I liked Perkins and Elliott, but I really did like Perky and Elliott.

They were terrific. Those two guys, two veteran baseball guys just sitting around telling stories. I learned so much from them. They've got such a great demeanor together and you very nicely bring out the stories in those two. Now, this episode goes back a few years and I think one of the most delicious pieces of trivia I remember from that program was at the Joe Carter home run, and who was waiting for Joe at home plate? Schofield.

Dick Schofield. Right. And was it when Mazeroski hit his home run, the only other time in baseball history when a home run on the last at-bat won a World Series. And who was waiting at home plate for the Pirates? Dick Schofield Sr. Correct. You know what? You pulled the same fun fact that blew my mind from that episode.

And there was a lot of great mind blows in that episode. Because I love that stuff. That's great. That's great. And number three on my list would be the sort of micumentary. Is that what you call them? Don't pretend like you're not sure, Steve. Come on. Micumentaries, of coursearies of course okay on harold ballard and again i have a um a bit of a personal

connection to harold ballard in as much as um i remember when he had a heart attack in florida and what year would that have been oh gosh it's in the late 1980s anyway he had a heart attack in florida and the executive producer of the CBC 6 o'clock news said, who here knows their way around Florida? And I put my hand up because I'd been going to Florida. My grandmother lived in Florida, and I'd been going to Florida pretty much every year for 50 years to go visit her, and then subsequently my folks as well.

And I said, I do, and my parents have got a place down there are you thinking of sending me there because you know i can stay for free and you know etc etc so i went down there and tried to get an interview with harold as he was convalescing from his heart bypass surgery octuple bypass wow and um that's eight yeah so uh how high does it go i don't know that i don't know you never hear beyond you know how high does it go? I don't know. That I don't know. You never hear beyond, you know, How high does it go? Shout out, Kana Kabanam.

Anyway, I'm getting the hang of this, Mike. You're good at this, man. When you're done with TVO, you got a home here. I'm getting the hang of it. Anyway, I saw his wife, Yolanda, down there at the Miami Heart Institute, and I said, Yolanda, we've come all the way from Toronto. It'd be wonderful if we could get an interview with Harold just to, you know, show the folks

back home that he's recovering and so on. And she said, well, let me go ask him. And she went in to ask him and she came back out and she said, Harold would be happy to do an interview if you pay him $25,000. And I said, well, yeah, thanks, but I don't think we can do that. Oh, that's wild. Okay. And it's funny that in your top

your three sports episodes that you you have gordon stalek and harold ballard of course gordon stalek was hired as uh the young at the time the youngest gm in nhl history and harold ballard owned once upon a time by hamilton tiger cats that is right i remember going to leaf games at maple leaf gardens when there'd be a big argo uh ty tilt and there would be like, I can't remember, but there'd be like pro Thai Cat stuff going on in the building. It was always so bizarre to me as a youngster. Because people would boo when the Thai Cat stuff came on in the gardens.

People would boo. Understandably so. Right. Love it. I do just want to tell you that we're live on the Pirate Stream, live.torontomic.com and Midtown Gord is watching live. And Midtown Gord is watching live. And Midtown Gord, this is going back to John Turner. I just haven't checked in a while.

But a half an hour ago, Midtown Gord wrote, I had a professor in university who went to school with John Turner, said he was smarter than the professor. Well, the interesting thing about John Turner is, as you point out, he was a Rhodes Scholar and Pierre Trudeau was not. Well, I read that in the press release. Okay. And Pierre Trudeau was not, and yet everybody thought Pierre Trudeau was this brilliant intellectual, and they thought John Turner was sort of a dumb jock. Interesting. And the fact is, you know, Mr. Turner had plenty of

intellectual chops. But he was too handsome, I think. He may have suffered from what a lot of gorgeous people suffer from. I suffer from the same thing. It's a curse, isn't it, Mike? Being as gorgeous as you are, people think you're stupid, but it's not true. You can be beautiful and smart, right? Yeah, you know what? No one ever says, what about these poor, handsome, smart people? Come on, we need your support and love too.

Okay, I love this selection, so I do also have to comment on your pick. So Cox, Stelic was great. I understand you have those connections. Perkins Elliott is an all-timer. That's in the Mount Rushmore of Toronto Mic'd episodes. Unbelievable. And the Harold Ballard, Mike Umentry, I would be remiss if I did not say thank you

to the VP of sales. Because every Mike Umentry, yeah, there are excerpts from my show and then I am narrating. But there's a lot of work involved and I get great help and assistance from the wonderful Tyler Campbell, who I refer to as VP of sales. So I like to say, and I always say it in the top of all those Mikey mentories that this episode would not exist without VP of sales.

And there's a couple of big ones in the hopper coming. And one of them is on the history of and one of them is on the history of CJCL, the fan 1430 slash 590 as an all sports station. So that should be something special. I got one more Harold Ballard story for you. Yeah, go ahead. Real quickie. I got all night. Ballard, when he owned the Tiger Cats,

used to send his treasurer, a guy by the name of Donald Crump, believe it or not, not Donald Trump, but Donald Crump. It's a great name. And he would send Donald to the games and Donald ended up sitting in the row right in front of us. And he used to come to a lot of the games and then he stopped coming. And I never saw him anymore.

And one day I'm walking in downtown Toronto around Maple Leaf Gardens and I see Don Crump there. And I go up to him and I say, hey, hi, how are you? I never see you at the games anymore. How come? And he says to me, well, can I tell you the truth? I said, of course you can tell me the truth. And he said, your mother makes so goddamn much noise. I can't enjoy the games anymore. So I've stopped coming. And I was never prouder of my mother than at that moment because, and you know what? He's not wrong. My mother used to make a hell of a ruckus at the games, And you know what? He's not wrong. My mother used to make a hell of a ruckus at the games,

screaming at the referees. She was always a little, she misbehaved a little bit at those games. That's amazing. But it was always for love. She loved her Ticats. That's amazing. And here's a couple more quick mind blows.

One is that I mentioned VP of sales helps me at the Mikey Mentories, and you love the Harold Ballard one. He's on the live chat, and he chimed in to say that he went to the same high school you went to in Hamilton. Who did? The VP of sales, Tyler Campbell. He's on the live chat and he chimed in to say that he went to the same high school you went to in Hamilton. Who did? The VP of Sales, Tyler Campbell. He did. He's younger. He's my age. Oh, okay. So 40 years younger.

He was not there when I was there. Not at the same time, but he went to the same high school you went to. And here's another kind of a mind blow at what a small world we live in. And as you pull these threads on Toronto Mike, you realize, oh my God, what a small world. But Midtown Gord is the nickname that this Gordon fellow uses when he chimes

in on all matters in the Toronto Mike universe but he got that nickname because he'd call into Gord Stelic's show on the fan and Gord Stelic gave him the nickname Midtown Gord how about that isn't that wild everything

connects everything connects okay and now I'm excited so now we got a few sports episodes under our belt this category is Midtown Gorge. How about that? Isn't that wild? Everything connects. Everything connects. Okay, and now I'm excited. So now we've got a few sports episodes under our belt. This category is called Controversy. Tell me what the category means, and then let us know who's the big winner. You have a knack of being able to get people to come on your show who are sometimes in the throes of controversial episodes in their lives. And full disclosure here, Peter Sherman's a friend of mine, a former conservative MPP.

I like him a lot. He's a good man. And he was doing some work on the radio for a station that when an interview got a little too sparky, decided that they wanted to fire him. 640. That's the one. And I thought that your giving him a forum to come on and explain what had happened was good journalism on your part, and it was a good interview. And Peter's now created his own podcast,

which I also listen to, and it's... The Shermanator? The Shermanator, yeah. Right. He's got his own... So let me ask you this. As a veteran of CBC and TVO. Peter texted me after that, that he wanted to reach over and strangle me.

He did not do this. I want to be very clear, but he thought about it because he felt I was being so unfair to him during that conversation. But you're here putting it in your top 10 list. So you must have thought I was pretty fair. I thought you were fine. I felt I was fair for what it's worth. And I thought he was finer. I mean, he did a good job explaining. I thought you were fine. I felt I was fair for what it's worth. And I thought he was finer.

I mean, he did a good job explaining. I hope he's listening. He did a good job explaining what went down from his point of view and why it was problematic.

And no, I didn't think you were, I didn't think you were too bad. I didn't enter that with like, I didn't have, I actually,

I try to play it up the middle regardless of what I'm, like I actually try my best to play it up the middle, sort of Pagan style like I actually try my best to play it up the middle, sort of Pagan style. You were, you were, you were a little punchy with him, Mike. I think we can go that far. You were, but you know what?

You, you did what classic interviewing style requires, which is basically, you know, whatever the guest believes, take the other side. And for argument's sake, you may, you took the other side and you pushed him and, and you know. I challenged him for sure. You did. For sure I challenged him for sure. You did.

For sure I challenged him. And it was fine. It was fine. He can handle it. And he does periodically, because I quite like the man, regardless of the... It doesn't matter to me that our politics

are radically different. I mean, you and Dobigin are buddies. Like, you know, Dobigin thinks Trump was like a great president. I almost called him a prime minister. That's Crump, not Trump. No. But Peter Sherman and I will have phone calls,

and I quite like the guy. I'd add one more episode to this, and I didn't write it down on the sheet here. Breaking news. Have you got a breaking news sting or anything like that? Oh, God, hold on. I don't know. What do I have here?

Hold on. No, that's not it. No. You know what? I've got to load one in. Those were all disappointing stingers. Your episode on the controversy surrounding George Chiavolo was also fascinating. That was good work as well, and I listened to that one.

With Mitch Chiavolo. Yeah. Okay, thank you. About George, yeah. Thank you. That was a good one too. Ooh, that was heavy. He's had quite the life.

Quite life. Okay, now we leave controversy. Shout out to the Shermanator. We're now discussing radio history well i started my career in radio in 1982 at chfi and then as it was called cftr now i don't know how many names well technically still cftr that's just the call letters like they just call it uh call it now city news 680 right right anyway i used to be the city hall reporter for those two stations,

and so I'm very interested in the history of radio in this city. And fortunately, thanks to you, I get to learn more about some of the stuff that preceded me. And your radio history episode on Q107 was terrific. I enjoyed that. And the one you did on Chum was great, and I enjoyed that. Now, I suppose in the interest of full disclosure, I should also say you have a massive Jones for CFNY that I don't. Well, I did one yesterday.

Yes, I know. And I'm not going to listen to that one either because I've just never, ever listened to CFNY. No, you're a Sinatra guy. What are you doing listening to CFNY? Well, I'm not. So nothing against you. I know that's your passion.

On Friday nights, you weren't listening to Chris Shepard on Club 102. No. But the fact is that they've got a phenomenal, their music historian is the best anywhere in the country, and we've had him on the agenda numerous times, and he's the best. So his stuff I like on CFNY. Are you talking about Alan Cross?

Yeah, of course. Okay. So him I like, but the music is just not my thing. Okay, okay. I like Alan Cross too. And that's okay to each his own, but very nice words to say there

about the Q107 episode, which is episode 1071. We make it nice and easy. And that Chum episode, although I kind of, you know what I did there? I recorded the Doug Thompson years before and then i tacked that to the end of did i did i yes of 10 50 so i had a new like a fresh zoom with a bunch of cats like jim van horn and roger ashby

and people like that that was episode 10 50 and then i tacked on the uh doug thompson 90 minute with all the clips and stuff. So I would say, yeah, if you, even if you're too young, like I am to remember 10 50 as a top 40 powerhouse, I think you'd thoroughly enjoy episode 10 50 and yeah, Q107.

And that way I had to, we made that up. And again, that one's a Mikey Venturi. So I think it's a Mikey Venturi. Yes. So you know why? Because the Derringer stuff was breaking and it really kind of threw a wrench in some plans.

Like, it was a difficult time to throw a bunch of Q107 bets in a Zoom and celebrate the station when all that was going on. So we took a different approach. Well, when I first moved to Toronto in 1978 from Hamilton, I listened to a lot of Chum back then. So that was, again, very nostalgic, and I appreciated that piece. I'm enjoying this very much, I guess because it's all about me. Now, let me see here.

Okay, so let's talk about comedy. Yes, and again, this is one of your more recent episodes. You did one with Ron James, who, I don't know, is he the best Canadian comedian ever? I mean, he might be. He's certainly up there. And I love the fact that he just came across as, I mean, he's obviously funny, he's obviously talented, he obviously works

his ass off, he goes all over the country. I love the fact that he's just a normal guy. He comes across as just a decent, normal guy and you drew that out of him. I don't think you had to draw it out of him that hard because that's who he is. And that's the third time he's been on if it's the most recent one. So, you know what it's like,

your first visit, like who, I know he's been on, if it's the most recent one. So you know what it's like, your first visit, like who, I know you from the TV. So it's like, now we got to build a rapport and kind of find the rhythm. And for you, it was easy.

Even Ron James, it was actually pretty easy. But that third visit, now, okay, so now we're like, oh, my buddy's here.

Let's talk. And I saw him once. I'm trying to remember what theater I saw him at. I think it might've been the Elgin Winter Garden, I think. And his standup was just great. And I saw him once. I'm trying to remember what theater I saw him at. I think it might have been the Elgin Wintergarden, I think. And his standup was just great. And I saw him after the show and we'd never met. And I went up and introduced myself and he was very complimentary about my work.

And I was obviously complimentary about his work, which I had just seen. And I'm so impressed with the guy. He's still out there, you know know creating and being art you know a great artist and uh i take my hat off to him like i like the guy very much so shout out to ron james yeah all right this category is called people steve pagan has worked with right now the aforementioned bruce dobigan i did a radio show with and i also worked with him at cblt uh cbc television in toronto back in the day and we did a very nice show i have to say on sinatra and tony bennett and i really enjoyed

the fact that you gave us that space to sort of but i love those types of episodes like i thoroughly enjoyed that episode we each picked five songs i picked five frank songs he picked five tony songs we discussed the songs and all of that and um and And now he wasn't all that happy with you, if I recall, on that day, because you felt, I don't know why, Mike, but you felt some obligation to sort of ask him a bunch of political questions when all we were going to do was talk about-

I don't think I asked him anything. I think I made a declaration that having him on the show was not me endorsing his worldview. Yeah, but why- Which is different than asking him questions. But why would you need to do that? Because it's not Because he's...

It's not that he's got some, oh, I would like to vote for Pierre Polyev or I think we need a conservative. It wasn't... It was such... His thoughts of the... He loves the convoy. He loves Trump. It was just too much that I felt I needed to make some kind of

a statement. Because you thought people would give you a hard time for having him on? For sure. Okay. For sure. I got a hard time for having Steve Simmons on the show. So it's like, and by the way, that never makes me think, let me not have this guy on. Like if I want to have someone on, because like Bruce Dobigin,

I have Bruce Dobigin on. Good for you. And he's been on a few, I think he's been on three times. Yeah. Because we can't just, I mean, I run into the same thing on the agenda. We can't just have people on our programs that we agree with. What the hell's the point of that?

You have to have people on you disagree with. As long as you have a civil conversation, that's fine. I'm with you. You and I are cut from the same cloth there because I'm just looking for a civil conversation and I don't need you to have your worldviews align with mine.

Absolutely. So I'm happy to have Dobigin on, but because it had been, and I don't know how much you follow Bruce Dobigin's writing and stuff, but it was such an extreme, I felt like I should make a statement off the top. But I think he forgave me very quickly.

He forgave you. He just, I think, couldn't figure out why you felt the need to do that. But that's okay. It's your show. You do what you want. My second people I've worked with was the episode where you had Michael Landsberg and me on.

And this was unfortunately, because it was during the pandemic, it was only on Zoom. So we didn't actually get to see each other on that occasion. Michael Landsberg and I both went to U of T at the same time. We worked at University of Toronto Radio at the same time. I was the play-by-play voice of the Varsity Blues Hockey and Football. He was the color commentator on those broadcasts. That's when we first met in the late 1970s. We're still pals to this day. We don't see a lot of each other, but I still feel very close to him because we've known each other for a long time. And I love the fact that you reunited us because it felt so good. Loved it. And I'm not even sure I could get Landsberg here without a pandemic. So,

but honestly, I loved, I've had several with Michael Landsberg, and he's a great guest. He's all class. Love it. He is a wonderful broadcaster, and more importantly, he has done some of the best, most impactful, most important work on mental health issues in the history of this country. And I take my hat off to him for that. Absolutely.

Ron Davis is one of the great piano players this country's ever produced, and you had Ron and me on for one of your episodes. And we just had a great chat about music, about everything, about the law, about, you know, living in Toronto, the whole nine yards. I'm sure I said it, but you know how Ron and I met each other because... You still call him your lawyer. Yeah, yeah. Because a notorious, infamous racist who has actually been convicted of hate crimes in this country was threatening me for things I said about him.

And then I needed legal counsel. And Ron Davis, like an angel, he said, I love your show. Yes, I'm also a jazz musician but this is my day job and he was quite helpful throughout that whole experience and uh i liked ron davis very much and then uh having you and he yeah that was it he was a big pagan fan if i remember correctly like i think i made his dream come true by pairing him up with you but we did learn i think it was when he was on solo but ron Ron Davis told the story of how his mother

would go to Florida during the winters and would become friendly with another woman who would talk about how her son was in a musical band of some sorts. And it was revealed, at some point it was revealed that this woman's son's name was, it was Geddy, Geddy, Geddy Lee from Rush. Right on, right on. Great story. And we both married Italian girls. Rush. Right on, right on. Great story. And we both married Italian girls. Okay. So we have that in common as well.

That's why you both love Palma Pasta so much. Okay. Shout out Palma Pasta. There we go. Okay. This next group of names I'm going to give you is not that I've done episodes with them on Toronto Mike. It's that I have worked with them sometime in the past.

Okay. And the funny thing is like, okay, 40 years ago, Mike Cooper and I both worked at CFTR at the same time. And he was obviously the music guy and I was the news guy. So I knew him, but we weren't friends and I didn't really get to spend any time with him because, you know, we're in different divisions. And I heard your episode with him and that was great. I just loved finding out all about Mike's background. He was great.

Yeah. Nam Kiwanuka, I work with right now at TVO. Glad you brought her up. She's one of the hosts on the agenda. And again, I mean, I know a lot about at TVO. Glad you brought her up. She's one of the hosts on the agenda. And again, I mean, I know a lot about Nam's background. She has an incredible backstory of how she came to this country from Africa at the age of 15, having, you know, in flight of her life. I mean, she was just a classic refugee story of fleeing for her life.

And, you know, how she's made such a great life for herself here and she's so good and anyway uh lover to bits and we work at TVO together right now and I'm I'm a big fan and you had her on and that was great and she came from Much Music of course before TVO well before you advance fit quickly I just want uh because Nam and I zoomed it it was uh I guess was it a pan now I don't know if it's post pan that bottom line is we zoomed it. I guess, was it a pan? No, I don't know if it was post-pandemic. Bottom line is we zoomed it. And I actually met her for the first time two weeks ago when I was invited to hear Viola Davis and some other actors on a movie called The Woman King.

Yes. And we sat like she was right behind me, and I got a big hug, and we took a selfie together, and we finally met person to person, and it was great. She is a sweetheart if i may say ken daniels and i have known each other if you can believe this since we were i think 11 or 12 uh we were in the same cabin at summer camp together i'm guessing it was 19 i don't know i want to say 70 or 71 something like that. We worked together at CBLT. I was in news.

He was the sports guy. He's gone on, of course, to be one of the great all-time play-by-play voices. He's with the Detroit Red Wings. He's a wonderful guy. He has done tremendous work to try to raise awareness and money for drug addiction, which took his son from him in just appallingly tragic fashion. So Ken has not only had a brilliant career, but he's also, he's going to leave footprints in this world and make this world a better place, taking something good out of an appallingly tragic situation. So, I mean, I love Ken and I'm delighted you had him on. He's a wonderful guy and he sent over a box. Did you ever watch the unboxing? There's a video I got to send you

a link to where Ken Daniel sent me a box of stuff he cleaned out of his Oh yes, I know about this. This box got here. It was quite the, getting it to me was quite an adventure in itself but I end up with a box and I decide I'm going to open this box with a camera on it. I'm going to record

me opening this box and it was so much great like Leafs and Blue Jays memorabilia and stuff. And Ken, if you're listening, man, what a great FOTM. When he left the first time, he came by because the Leafs, sorry, the Red Wings were playing the Leafs at the Scotiabank Arena.

So he popped here on his way to the hotel after arriving here. And we did our episode. It was great. And then he left me this like note, but he said said don't open it till i'm gone and man i could tear up just thinking about it what a sweetheart ken daniels is amen also back in my radio days at cftr one of the newscasters was evelyn macko and again here's

a situation where i mean i knew evelyn a little bit back in the day um but you know when you're in a newsroom you're racing around all the time, especially if you're the news reporter like me, you're coming back from a story, you're trying to get your tape isolated, you're running into a voice booth, you're writing a script, you're laying down your voice. It's very quick. There's a lot of running around and you really don't necessarily get to know very well the people that you work with. And again, by having evelyn macko on i found out a lot more about her than i never knew when i worked with her so that was great love it uh and evelyn macko uh who was known as wacko macko like the and and this is going to tie into another episode you're

going to share later so i'll save the story except that uh the song's called uh painted ladies oh yeah yeah so we'll keep because i I got to talk about him too, but, and you're going to mention somebody very close to him, but that was like the theme song and I played it for her and it was like, yeah, shout out to Wacko Macko.

We never, I certainly never called her that. Mind you, I was 21 or 22 when I worked with her, so I would not have had the guts, but I never even heard that before. That was different. That was a new one for me. My last one in this category would be Andrew

Crystal, the late great Andrew Crystal. Again, another guy that I first met at U of T radio 44 years ago. He had, when Landsberg and I came in to do our sports casts, he was the guy who was often spinning records just before us or just after us. He had his own show back then. And then of course we sort of grew up together in, uh, in Toronto and he had his radio shows and, uh, and did some time on city TV as well. And, and Andrew just, you know, had an indomitable spirit that could not be contained. He was just an amazing guy. I still have on my iPhone right here, the last text he ever sent me, and I'm going to keep that forever. We, he used to call, Andrew Crystal, we used to watch Leaf games together, but not together. Like I'd watch the Leaf games from my home and he'd watch them from his home. And during the course of the game, he would just call me and, you know, the phone would ring. And of course it would be a phone ring and he would say that was the worst bloody call i've ever seen click hang up then you know 20 minutes later he would

call back and say god matthews is a fabulous player isn't he and then just hang up and then he would call me back later and say i'm a fat pig i'm i'm getting i'm far too i'm i weigh way too much i can't stand how much i weigh and hang up. I mean, it was that kind of thing. He was just crazy wacky, but just indomitable. And I miss him. He's just such a, he was such a great guy. And this is episode 1,115, and he is the only guest who's no longer with us.

Right. And there's a lot of unique guests on Toronto Mike. I think we counted like almost 700 unique guests on this program and only one has passed away. Andrew Crystal. Oh, did you ever cross paths at U of T Radio with Blair Packham? I knew the name. I know because you've mentioned him many times in the last few podcasts.

I remember him. I don't know that we actually knew each other, but I definitely remember him from back in the day. Because he remembers Andrew Crystal from U of T Radio very well. Okay. All right. Next category. Next category.

What is this? The educator. I told you earlier that I learned a lot from Dave Hodge 44 years ago, and I continue to learn a lot from Dave Hodge nowadays. And funnily enough, not so much about sports, but about music. And you know that my musical taste sort of stopped after Sinatra died. But, you know, Dave Hodge has just such a wonderfully eclectic, intelligent taste in music. And when you have him on to do his top 100 or whatever he does, top 10s, I always listen because he's just got

so much knowledge to impart. Yes. And yeah, so if I may, as a fan, keep doing those because I love learning more. We're going to do these until we can't do them anymore. Good, good. So absolutely, we'll have more Dave Hodge here later in 2022.

So I'm going to let the listenership know there's only two names left on your list. So two more categories, two more names, but wow, I love the name of this category. It's the McKenzie brother. Well, okay. You know, I'm from Hamilton, Ontario and so are Dave and Ian Thomas. And you did an episode not that long ago with Dave Thomas, whom, you know, I have to say, I knew both the Thomases back in the day in Hamilton. My parents and their parents were friends. That was a tremendous episode with Dave.

He gave you so much time and just, like, kept talking about stuff that was, you know, stuff I haven't heard before. And I know Ian better than I know Dave, and I've had Ian on the agenda. And Ian is one of my favorite musical artists of all time. You just mentioned Painted Ladies a while ago. That's such a great song, and he wrote that, I think, when he was 20 or 21.

Just an amazing song. And his album, Long, Long Way, is one of my favorite albums of all time. But your show with Dave Thomas really was a highlight for me as well. an amazing song. And his album, Long, Long Way, is one of my favorite albums of all time. And, but your show with Dave Thomas really was a highlight for me as well. It was magic for me too. And I think it's a perfect storm of a very, very interesting guest who, you know,

with a wealth of great stories and lived a big, big, wonderful life that made me feel, and this is so important when guests, sometimes a big shot like that will come on and there'll be like, I remember, I so important when guests, sometimes a big shot like that will come on and they'll be like, I remember, I won't name it, but a big shot. And I had, I was, I said, oh, can we do an hour? And then could we do it in 40 minutes? Like, it's like, you're kind of fighting for every minute and then you can't like relax and do your thing that you're, you'd

like to do, right? Like with you right now, I don't feel rushed, which is a wonderful feeling. But with, with Dave Thomas, he made me feel like, no, don't worry. I don't, we don't feel rushed, which is a wonderful feeling. But with Dave Thomas, he made me feel like, no, don't worry, we don't have to do this in 45 minutes, take your time. And I felt very comfortable to ask lots of questions and I felt very comfortable to take, you know, over 90 minutes or whatever. And that's a wonderful feeling for a guy

who's trying to collect these stories. I think I saw Dave Thomas perform for the first time in 1970. He was one of the cast members in one of my favorite musicals it was called godspell of course so many sctv people in that uh you know like who was martin short was in that eugene levy was in that andrea martin's in that andrea martin jane eastwood yeah gilda radner was in that paul schaefer was the musical director of that victor garber was in that don scardino was in that uh rudy webb was in that. Paul Schaefer was the musical director of that. Victor Garber was in that. Don Scardino was in that. Rudy Webb was in that.

Avril Shown was in that. Anyway, just a fantastic cast. And that's the first time I saw Dave Thomas. And I guess he's done pretty well since then, hasn't he? Have you heard the John Biner episode yet? No, I haven't. Okay, you'll love it because there's a Dave Thomas part to the John Biner,

because Dave Thomas would appear on Bizarre. Oh, yes, of course. Which was filmed in aging court. I got a Biner story for you. It's weird. Like, I was a fan of that show, and I saw John Biner at the airport once, at Pearson,

and I walked up to him, and he was sitting with a friend of his who I did not recognize, and I walked up to John Biner and said, I'm such a fan of your, can I have your autograph, please? I'm a teenager at the time. And he's very nice. He's very accommodating. He gives me the autograph.

And then he says, my friend Ricky Nelson is sitting here. Would you like his autograph as well? And I really thought, like, I never watched Ozzy and Harriet. I was not a Ricky Nelson, or Rick Nelson, as I guess he rebranded himself. I was not necessarily a fan of his music. But Ielson as i guess he rebranded himself i was not necessarily a fan of his music but i got his autograph too sure you can't say no after that after just out of respect for john beiner's asking i got that autograph as well love it now here the quick side note is that you were very nice to give me ian thomas's email address and then i wrote ian and

invited him to come on toronto mic and ian said yes and we had it in the schedule. Now, unfortunate for a variety of reasons, but there was Dave and Ian's mother passed away and the day of my Zoom with Ian I didn't know this, but interning the ashes, is that the expression when you intern ashes?

Inter? Inter, yeah. I think they're interning. No in in there. No in. Okay. I'm learning. I'm watching Six Feet Under. You'd think I'd have these terms down okay so bad timing of course and i'm like mr thomas uh please be of your brother and we'll talk and i gave i think i gave him like two months off like here's two months of space and time and then i wrote him a nice email and said and i'd love to reschedule but he didn't reply to that email. And then I gave him another month and then I wrote him back again and goes, uh, hi Ian. Uh, maybe we could get a new day and time in the calendar. I'd love to chat with you. I think you'd enjoy the experience or whatever. And he did not reply to that either. So what is my next move here? Do I let this one go? Because this was in the books.

He was all, it was, I don't know how into it he was, but he was into it. What do I do now? He was all, I don't know how into it he was, but he was into it. What do I do now? I'm going to very mysteriously here say, let's you and I talk about this offline after we get done. Done, okay. Great answer.

Okay, now we are down to the final Toronto Mic'd episode that Steve Bacon's going to shout out here. Before I give you the category and we hear the winner, I want to let everyone know that John Turner, an intimate biography of Canada's 17th Prime Minister, is available what day, November? Oh, we have a problem, right? You can go to the Sutherland House Press website right now and pre-order it or just wait for it to come to bookstores in November. Order it or just wait for it to come to bookstores in November. But, you know, buy a couple of copies in case one wears out.

And it's a good holiday gift, regardless of what you celebrate. There's a December holiday, which would be a fine time to get your loved one. John Turner, an intimate biography of Canada's 17th Prime Minister by Steve Paikin. And this final category is called The Best. I called it simply The Best. Shout out Tina Turner. It's a cover. Do you know that? I did not know that. Yeah. Lots of these Tina Turner songs you know and love are covers. Really? Yeah. Who does she cover of that song? I have to Google it, but I'm going to Google it right now. Okay. You Google and I'll tell people why I love this episode the most. You know, Aaron Davis, I don't think we actually, we both were at CHFI, but I'm not sure we were there at the same time.

I don't think we were. But I've always admired her. She's always been, done a great job, obviously, in the mornings. Extremely popular. I found it inexplicable when they asked her to leave. I found it more explicable when they asked her to come back. And you did, Mike, what do I look for in an interview? I look for honesty. I look for authenticity. I look for magic moments. I look for chemistry between interviewer and interviewee.

And, and it was all there in that interview. And she talked about some of the most, well, deeply personal and again, appallingly tragic moments of her life. And I can tell you, Mike, I've listened to thousands of interviews in my life. Thousands. I mean, let's face it. I've done thousands and listened to thousands more. I never cry.

I just never do. But I did when listening to that one. Wow. It was just extraordinary. She was, you were very tender with her. You were good with her and she was just available and open to sharing her pain, which will no doubt help others who are undergoing similar tragedies, talking about the loss of a child, which is the worst thing you can imagine in your life. And it was just, it was not only a magical conversation, but I think if you were a person dealing with tragedy in your own life, listening to that episode would help you get through it. So kudos to everybody. Well, thank you for the kind words, because that means a lot,

especially coming from you. And I will say Erin makes it easy because she's just, she's the best. I'm glad she's in this category. In a moment, I'm going to play the original, the best actually for you. It's all locked and loaded here. But I mean there was a sentiment she expressed to me, which was something to the

effect of if you have one child and your child passes away, are you still a mother actually i can't can't do it actually i know i know it i mean you are you are reliving the most heartbreaking moments of the conversation they were just so raw and honest so strange that i can't even think on it without crying. And I'm lucky enough. I've not lost a child.

And I can't imagine. Okay. So I have to turn the channel now on this because I'll just cry here. Except I did load up on an unlighter fare here. I have a song. Let me see if this plays here. Hold on. This. This is not Tina Turner.

No, who's this? Bonnie Tyler. Oh. So I'll bring it down while we talk. This will get me nicely booted from Facebook, I'm sure. But the best is written. Sorry, no. It's a song by Bonnie Tyler, I'm sure, but The Best is written, sorry, no, it's a song by Bonnie Tyler, who's Welsh, by the way, and it came out in 1988, and then it

was covered by Tina Turner, and it was written by Holly Knight and Mike Chapman, but yeah, it's a Bonnie Tyler song that was covered by Tina Turner. This is the original version of The Best. So we'll let her get to the chorus. I've never heard this before. The first time I heard this song would have been Tina Turner singing it. I think you're not alone. That's for sure. You're not alone. But this is

great. I love this. Here comes the chorus. Go for it, Mike. Alright, together. You're simply the best! Better than all the best. Tina Turner's version came out in 1989 and appeared on her seventh solo album, Foreign Affair. And Edgar Winter has a saxophone solo in that version. Oh, I didn't know that.

See, these are fun facts for us here. Okay, amazing, amazing, amazing. Thank you, Bonnie. Thank you, Steve. Honestly, Steve, I could have done 90 minutes on John Turner, but it's more fun

to just kind of like talk about everything. This was great. Thanks for the invitation. And thank you for the, like the homework you did. Like that's amazing to hear. What for the invitation. And thank you for the, like, the homework you did. Like,

that's amazing to hear. What, like, what are the episodes? Like, I know you're not listening to the CFNY episodes and that's fine.

You can't listen to all 1,115, but to hear, like, what are the episodes that resonated with you? That, that means a lot to me.

Thank you so much for doing that. My pleasure. And that, that brings us to the end of our 1,115th show. George Bell, Lloyd Mosby. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike.

We're shaking, but the bacon, he's at S Bacon. Is that right? S Bacon on Twitter. S-Pacon. Is that right? S-Pacon on Twitter. S-P-A-I-K-I-M. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Make sure I get it out of my freezer for you. Sticker U is at Sticker U.

Electronic Products Recycling Association are at EPRA underscore Canada. Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH and Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana underscore. You know, if you had listened to the recent episode with Chris Brown from Bourbon Tabernacle Choir with Ron

Hawkins and Stephen Stanley at the end of that episode, when I break into this song, Rosie and Gray from Shakespeare in My Butt, two people playing on this song are in the room including the singer

and they start playing it on their guitars and I bring down the studio version here I bring it down and I let them take us home and they had a new new lyrics

for Ridley Funeral Home and I think even if you just fast forward to the last five minutes of that episode very cool you might enjoy it. See you all

next week. Rosie and Gray Yeah the wind is cold But the smell of snow Wants me to date And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is Rosie and Gray

Well I've been told That there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who, yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of gray Cause I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah, I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you?

I'm picking up trash and then putting down ropes And then brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn? Because everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today.

And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and gray. Well, I've kissed you in France, and I've kissed you in Spain. And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Shakhtar Khor But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms us today.

And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy now. Everything is rosy now Everything is rosy and Everything is rosy and gray