Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Steve Paikin's The Agenda Exit Interview: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1703

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

In this 1703rd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Steve Paikin about why he's leaving The Agenda and what's next for him as his duties are reduced at TVO. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Yes We Are Open, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Hi, this is Steve Pakin and you're listening to one of the absolute best. Here's Toronto Mike. Welcome to episode 1703 of Toronto Miked! Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Yes we are open. An award-winning podcast from Minaris hosted by FOTML Grego, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball,

Christie Pitts has the best baseball in the city outside the dome, RecycleMyElectronics.ca committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past, Building Toronto Skyline, a podcast and book from Nick Aynes sponsored by Fusion Corp Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, returning to Toronto Miked for his, and this is a question mark at the end, his exit interview?

It's Steve Paken. With the Wendell Clark Bob Neely edition of Toronto Might. Very good. 1703. Exactly. Before I press record, I was telling you who was in your seat before you. Sometimes it's fine to say who was sitting there before you. And before you, it was Donna Ramsey Anderson, who is like a country music legend in this country, and her and her husband Leroy Anderson were the like the official duo of the Tommy Hunter show. So I just dropped this fun fact on you. We talked Tommy Hunter and what fun fact did you have for me? My recollection is that my father's uncle, so his mother's brother whose name was Saul

Halloff, was the manager for Johnny Cash, Debbie Lori Kay and Tommy Hunter. Wow. That is my recollection for back in the day. Well, you have a good recollection. You have a steel trap of a memory. Most of the time. I'm sure you got that right. I mentioned to you in passing that next week,

cause exit interview, I have in quotes for you and we'll dive into that in a moment, but I have Tom Harrington's actual exit interview next week. And not only is he a long time, uh, CBC or who's no longer there, but he did sing on the Tommy Hunter show. Tom Harrington, I have been pals for a long time and he is one of three Harrington siblings that I have worked with during my so-called career. Not only Tom but also Beth Harrington who did entertainment reporting at CBLT when I was there more than 30 years ago and Denise Harrington who was Queens Park reporter for CBLT when I was there and so he's you know there's one of three I've worked

with three Harrington kids and I'm sure there are more and maybe I will look forward to working with one of them someday. Do you find it's an awfully small world this Canadian media landscape? You know what Mike there's a great Red Sox fan by the name of Steven Wright who was a funny funny guy right comedian. Not only just as a may, as a Reservoir Dogs fanatic, the first movie directed by Quentin Tarantino, he's the voice of KBBL's Super Sounds of the 70s. Okay, so he's got a very droll sense of humor,

and he used to say, it's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it. Yeah, he had those one-liners, Stephen Wright, still with us, of course. Yeah, and still a Bo Sox fan. Well, we can't one liners, Stephen Wright, still with us, of course. Yeah, and still a Bosaug's fan. Well, we can't all be perfect, right? Okay, so you're a Bosaug. You're still a Bosaug's fan.

I am, even though they're having a really mediocre year. You know, as I fell in love with my Toronto Blue Jays in 83, and I followed them closely in 1983, and then forevermore. But this is actually the first season, and I don't know if maybe who knows what's going on that I'm doing this, but I decided to take a year off. Like, I actually decided consciously to tap out of my Toronto Blue J season because I was kind of disgruntled by management and Shapiro and Atkins and some decisions. And I haven't followed any Toronto Blue Jays baseball in 2025.

Really? So you've missed the fact that they swept the athletics. Like I catch it here and there. I'm on blue sky and I got catch a little bit here and there. So I got an idea. In fact, I even booked for Friday afternoon. I have Keegan Matheson coming over who covers the Blue Jays for mlb.com.

And I even had to tell him, I'm like, I do wanna talk to you. I just don't wanna talk 2025 20, 25 Blue Jays. So we're going to talk about like the legacy cause he just wrote a book, but that's where I'm at right now with my baseball team. Here's the bigger question for you, Mike. Are you going to take next year off for the Maple Leafs? I say, no, I won't. I will not. I'm curious.

I know you're a Leafs fan as well. I know Ron Ellis was your favorite player. I'm curious what changes are in store? What's gonna happen with Mitch Marner John Tavares? I'm still on board the Leafs train for better or worse and it's primarily been in my lifetime for worse Well, yes and no it's been for better during the regular season where they have a lot of success and it's for worse during the playoffs Where they don't seem to have much. Although you know what in fairness to the Leafs and now that we're at the Stanley Cup final round, I think we can legitimately say the Leafs were the third best team in the NHL this year. There's no question the two best teams are playing for the Stanley Cup, but I'll

tell you what, who's played the Panthers better than the Maple Leafs this year in the playoffs? Admittedly two games were stinkers, but the Leafs took the Panthers to seven games, way better than Carolina, okay, and way better than Tampa. So, you know. Do they give you a trophy for that, Steve? No, they don't. They don't. But to say that it's been only misery this year, I think is incorrect. There've been a lot of great moments this past year. It just unfortunately ended prematurely. We're a great regular season team. And there's a lot, if you're excited to see, oh, I don't know, a couple of years back, Will Austin Matthews hit 70 goals, for example.

Like that's thrilling. Will Mitch Marner get a hundred points? That's exciting. The problem is you're all about the playoffs and we've won precisely, and you know this, but since the lockout in 2005. Two rounds. We've won two rounds. And Buffalo Sabres,

since that same lockout, have won more rounds than we have. And they haven't made the playoffs in how many years? Like 17 or something? I don't know. I know. Yeah, I know there are those kind of anomalous little trivial facts that you can bring up, but I don't know. After the Leafs lost game seven as badly as they did. I admit I sort of got on my Maple Leaf What he called the thread that I have with a bunch of you know, my buddies about like a chat. What is this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, what's up? Where is this exactly? No, it's just on text and and I literally said in that moment of heartbreak Okay, that's it guys. I'm out. I cannot I cannot do this anymore, right?

but you know a couple of past and i'm like you intrigued to see what they're gonna do with the roster so i'm sure i'll be back and i watch there's eighty two is eighty two games in an hl season right now there is so i probably watch seventy uh... you know i i had the tb on while i'm working and and i watch the game

and uh... and i watch a lot of games and I text with my buddies during the games and you know what can I tell you? I'm obsessed and have the affliction of being a Leafs fan since 1962. See, I feel I'm the official biographer of Steve Paikins. I can tell you, I know your hockey team is the Leafs. I know your baseball team is the Boston Red Sox. And we've covered this in a previous episode, because when you were growing up, there were no Toronto Blue Jays. And I get that. I completely understand that. But I also know you have a CFL team near and dear to your heart. You're wearing a t-shirt now. I know we talked about your mom's love of this team, but you are a Hamilton Tigercat fan. Well, I'm born and raised in Hamilton, Mike. So of course I'm a Tigercat fan. Well I'm born and raised in Hamilton Mike so of course I'm a Tycat fan and and to the extent that my kids care about football they like the Tycats as well except

for the oldest who has because he was born and raised in Toronto doesn't care about his father's views and loves the Argos and lives overseas and still follows the Argos very carefully. And, you know, he's out of the will, but that's okay. Love it so much. Okay. So, we mentioned some baseball, so I'm actually going to just take this opportunity now to keep it on the topic of baseball before we dive into the big questions I have for you. And so hold all that. But I do have a book for you. It's the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. Of course, they play at Christie-Pitt season you made the trek to Christie Pitts to appear

on one of my live recordings live from a Maple Leafs game. That's a beautiful book. That's great. Thank you for that. I was all set to go this year on opening day, which was Mother's Day. And when I told my wife, I'm going to spend Mother's Day down at Christie Pitts, she said, Oh no, you're not. I had a difficult conversation too, because, but, but I was, um, holding an event. TMLX 18 was at Christie Pits during that opener. And I had this like, okay, babe, I love you, but here's what we're going to do. And then like, we'll, we'll do a dinner thing or whatever. And luckily I was able to get to Christie Pits to host my own event.

But I got to tell you about yesterday real quick here. So yesterday, I had the honor of throwing out the ceremonial first pitch. I'm going to guess Steve Paikin, from CBC and then TVO to be discussed where you're at now in mere moments, but I'm guessing you've thrown out a ceremonial first pitch or two in your career. Never. Is that right? Not at any level. So now my first question for you is, did you throw a strike? So I absolutely did throw a strike and I had my nine year old as my videographer capturing the video, here's, let's take a minute. Now this didn't, you know, it's a podcast. You can go to my YouTube channel, Toronto Mike has a YouTube channel where I have

the full video here and I also posted it on my Instagram page and I put it on blue sky so you could find this if you're looking for it you can find I'm gonna look but here's the audio we'll see how this works in podcasts from so let's listen to this my daughter taking some video live from Christie Pitts yesterday just before 2 p.m. this is one minute. You have CNN course money. You ready? Like we practiced. One more time! Alright, thank you. Strike! You said it's down the middle. That's right. Strike? Do you want this? I don't know if you want me to sign it. Sign it. Sign it. Sign it. Amazing.

There you go. Thank you so much. Enjoy. Thank you. We need to get a marker so we can get everybody to sign it. See what that means? That means rehearsing and practicing makes you perfect. That's a strike.

So Steve Pagan, I threw a strike. Well done. Good for you. You remember that scene? It was just after 9-11 at Yankee Stadium when President George W. Bush was going to throw out the first pitch. And you know, this is literally within days of the Twin Towers having been taken down. And Derek Jeter goes up to President Bush just before he's about to throw out the first pitch and he says you better not bounce it in there or they'll boo you. You know what I do remember this they'll boo you and I was in my mind when I was going to throw the first pitch I was thinking of 50 cent I know you're a big 50 cent fan aren't you Steve? He threw it like about eight feet just a little bit

outside as they say in Major League. Oh the Oh, the late great Bob Uecker. Yeah. No longer with us. That's too bad. Now I, so I threw that strike, but it was, I think I threw that strike because earlier in the day I took my two youngest kids to a local baseball diamond where I basically decided where would the mound be? I had my nine year old as like the catcher and I threw a practice pitch but I visualized I was at Christie Pitts and this thing I did which is essentially a rehearsal is because I just finished season two of a

show on HBO called The Rehearsal. Are you aware of this show Steve Pagan? No. Okay so there's a guy named Nate Fielder, Canadian Nathan Fielder who he did season one was amazing but season two of the rehearsal He was looking into aviation safety and I'm not gonna spoil this for anybody, but it's just an absolute Mind-blowing all throughout this season. You're like, I can't believe I'm watching this. I can't believe this is happening I can't believe this Nate Fielder is doing this and that I'm able to consume this content. So I'm just here to passionately to consume this content. So I'm just here to passionately endorse season two of the rehearsal with Nate Fielder. But because of this, I was inspired to like visualize and rehearse that I was at Christie Pitts throwing out that first pitch, which I did yesterday morning. I also, by the way, had my nine year old record that that's on my YouTube channel

as well. So you can see my rehearsal pitch, and then you can see me at Christie Pitts. And I believe I threw that strike because of the rehearsal. Okay, I'm ready to say, you know, I keep a list of shows to watch that people recommend. So I'm gonna write this down. And if you like it, I want full credit. Okay. The rehearsal, and it's on what channel? It's, you get Crave?

I do, yeah. Okay, you'll find it on Crave. It's an HBO show. Great, what's it about? Wow, it's tough to describe, except that this comedic genius guy named Nathan Fielder basically is like he's big on rehearsing. I don't think I can relate to Cecil or Prince. I don't think so. Prince Fielder hitting bombs at the dome is like a five year old. Yeah, right. You know, Seth Jones. So just

bouncing around a little bit here and then we're going to get to what people are tuned in for. But I'm, you know, I'm seeing Seth Jones in the Stanley Cup playoffs and I'm like blowing my 11 year old's mind and telling him about, do you know Seth Jones, you know, as a child is in Toronto, his father is Popeye Jones of the Toronto Raptors. I did. Well, I heard that in one of the broadcasts. So I know that now. Yes. Okay. I can't tell Steve Paik in anything although I did tell you about the rehearsal you did yeah You're gonna tune into season 2 and check that out should I not watch season 1 you know watch 1 2 1 is excellent Okay, and I you could probably do 2 without 1 it's not but but I recommend both seasons. That's an order mr. Bacon yes sir walk of life when I by the way

If you're going to share something on social media, which social media app do you share that thought on? I go in order of X, blue sky, Facebook, threads, that order. Okay. I guess a LinkedIn in there somewhere as well. Okay. There's a lot going on there. So first stop for you is the app formerly known as Twitter. Correct. Still. And that's habit forming as much as anything. I don't really enjoy much of what I read, see and hear there. But, um, but you're still there. I'm, I'm still there. I, I, I'm a lot less there than I used to be, but it's still a good place for me to, you know, get my wares out, promote my stuff, the shows I'm on, the columns I write, that kind of stuff. Yes.

I got a note from you, like, are we still on for today? And I realized I don't think Steve Paikin is checking in on Blue Sky because I had many promotional messages on posts tagging you on Blue Sky that this episode was happening. So I got the sense maybe you had left blue sky. No, I'm on it but I am more of a inputter as opposed to outputter. Is that right? Did you check your mentions?

Not so much. Not so much. Not so much. You got that tip from Ian Hanumancing, right? He took a beating on blue sky. You might have been aware of this. You're really getting in his kitchen on this show, aren't you? Well well that wasn't recorded? That's the first time I've mentioned his name That's a pressed record you mentioned him before you pushed record with kindness because I can't wait for him to make his Toronto

Make debut and I'm a big fan. Okay. Well walk of life on blue sky No, the pressure's on you might because you know Ian had me on his show a couple of weeks ago I saw and did a brilliant interview. I thought he was gonna beat him. Okay. Well, we'll see the jury's jury's out. Let's see. He's pretty good. So let's see what you can do. It's quantity over quality, right? In podcasting, maybe. Okay. Okay. That's why I'm on episode 1703. You can't touch me here. But walk of life said just one word for Mr. Paken, two, if it's not hyphenated, this will start a great debate whether you should hyphenate it or because I never do but he just wants me to say to you Thank you Okay, so people have been reaching out wanting to express. Thank you to you

Because you've been the face and the voice of the agenda has it 19 years. Yeah So I need to hear straight from you I know you've been on the national and I've been you know, reading the TVO news and everything like that. But please tell me, is it true that the agenda is coming to an end at the end of this very month? Yes. Did you want more? I mean, you said be succinct. I need lots more. Yeah. Why is the agenda shuttered at the end of the month on my birthday? When's your birthday? June 27. That's the day of our last show. I know. That's right. I know. Well, it's nothing to do with that. Sorry to say it had nothing to do with your birthday. No, this is pretty simple, Mike. The

reality is the contract that I am about to finish I signed three years ago and at the beginning of that contract as i was signing it i sort of said my boss john ferrie that was the vice president of whatever it is to change the name every now and then programming essentially i said i think this is a day i think this will be the last one and he said well you know if you want to keep going that's okay and i said now i don't know.

I think this would be the last one. It just feels right. I mean, it's 19 years that I've been hosting the agenda. I well remember Barbara Frum, when I used to work at CBC, the legendary Barbara Frum saying to me, you know, Steve, one day the viewers wake up and they just get sick of looking at your face. And that's always been in the back of my head, which essentially is advice not to overstay your welcome. And so I've always thought better

to leave the party an hour early than a minute too late. There are a bunch of things I still would like to try to accomplish in my so-called career. You just don't have time to do any of those things when you're hosting a daily show because when you're hosting a daily show, because when you're hosting a daily show, it's a seven day a week thing. I know people don't believe that, but it's true. I believe that. Well, I'm telling you, you're always, I'm not saying it's all day every day, but you are working every day.

You are reading books, you are writing questions, you are booking guests, you are writing intros. You are, it's just, it's endless. You know, you're reading research. It's endless. And if I wanted to have a chance to do some of these other things, then let's end while I think we're on still a bit of a up note. Like I think the show is still pretty decent. I think the show is as good as it's ever been. And I think you're a bit like the magnificent one Mario Lemieux who did retire too soon like he retired and he was still in his

prime and he was still doing great and I guess he felt it was time to to step away but I'm not retiring the difference is Mario stepped down from playing hockey and then did not play any more hockey I am NOT quitting journalism I'm just going to look for different avenues to do what I want to do. And instead of doing a thing, which the agenda is hosting a show, I'm going to do 15 things. And I'm just going to kind of, you know, I'm going to spend some time exploring what those 15 things are. Well, obviously, I have follow up questions. So, this contract that was coming to an end, I guess, at the end of June of 2025, I suppose, right? You, Steve Paikin made the decision not to

sign a new contract. Like, so you could have continued with the agenda if you had chosen to continue. That's what they said. They said we can keep going if you want. And I said, that's significant because some people are going to They didn't offer you like a like Shanahan, right? Brendan Shanahan is moved on because MLSC did not offer another contract Well, here's the thing they did offer another contract and I have signed another contract, but it's not to do the agenda Going forward. I'm going to do the weekly on poly podcast with John Michael McGrath. It's FOTM John Mike. FOTM indeed. Yes. We've been here together.

You and he and I that will air Friday nights on TVO. So I will still be hosting that weekly show. I will still be writing a weekly column for the TVO website, TVO.org. I will still be hosting something called TVO today live, which is a show we do, I don't know, eight, nine, 10 times a year where we go out into the community in front of a live audience and we bring big guests in. We, we brought Tom Friedman in from the New York times last week, taped a show with him that will air June the ninth at 9 PM.

So I'm going to continue to do TVO today live and I'm going to continue to do this little five minute YouTube show I do on Ontario political history, uh, called, uh, Ontario Chronicle. So I'm still gonna be doing four things for TVO just not the agenda. So because the agenda was the the bulk of your time and effort at TVO is that fair to say? Yes. Okay so the agenda so I mean again you're on the sunshine list do you know that? I'm aware in fact I didn't have to hack into. I was the I was the first journalist ever to be on the sunshine.

Wow. Back in 1996. So again, I'm just stating some obvious public facts here. But in twenty twenty four. You made three hundred and sixty nine thousand nine hundred and forty one dollars.

So that's almost like a hair under three hundred and seventy thousand Canadian dollars pre-tax, of course, your twenty twenty four salary. So this again, this new contract, is it fair to say that it's for significantly less because you're not going to be working on the agenda anymore? I think I'm just about to take a seventy five percent pay cut. Okay.

Well, you still make the sunshine list. That's what I want to know. Oh, I don't know. Will it be close? Hadn't thought about that. I don't know. It would be close. Hadn't thought about that. I don't know. I don't know. So you mentioned-

And you know what, Mike? I don't mind working for that much money, even though I could have made twice or three times as much in the private sector, but I loved the mission of TVO. I love the people I work with. I like the fact that it's non-commercial. I like the fact that the programs we did there

were stuff that I felt I had a good hand in being a part of. So my 32 years at TVO have been joyous. I would just put it that way. Joyous, and I'm glad it's not over. Okay. A few more questions. Don't wait.

We will have some time to celebrate your run. Not that, again, I put the question mark on exit interview because of course I know it was in the press release for goodness sakes. You were still gonna do the podcast on Polly podcast of John Michael McGrath. And you were still, I call it blogging, but you're, you know, basically you're still writing

articles for TVO.org. And then I didn't even realize this TVO today and then this five minute history. This is all stuff. So you're still gonna have some visibility on TVO today and then this five-minute history. This is all stuff. So you're still going to have some visibility on TVO. But why not continue the agenda with a new host? Like, why does the agenda have to go when you go? Well, obviously that wasn't my decision, but I agree with the decision that they've made, which is to say, I think because I've been the one and only host of the agenda, it may be too much associated with me and for another

host to come in and have to take that over as opposed to start their own new branded thing. I think it's probably easier for the new host to go that way. Well, I think you're 100% right because no matter who it is, they're going to be compared to Steve Paikin. And because people are so, you know, for know for almost two decades people have they know the agenda with Steve Pagan and I think that that's sort of what they know what people are comfortable with

and there's no human on the planet that can be Steve Pagan thank goodness well yeah I mean one's enough right one's enough thank you look I mean not not to push this comparison too far Mike but the reality is when Johnny Carson stepped down from the Tonight Show after 30 years and then Jay Leno came in to replace him, the first many months of Jay Leno replacing Johnny Carson were very difficult. Very difficult because Jay wanted to do his own new show and yet there was sort of an expectation by the viewers and maybe even some people on his staff that he not changed

so much of what they liked about the previous show. And that's a hard, that's like a, without a shoehorn, that is a very hard foot to get into that shoe. And so, you know, I think it makes just as much sense. No, I think it makes more sense to wind up the agenda after what I think's been a pretty successful 19 year run and give the next host a brand new opportunity

with a new show called The Rundown, which is coming to a theater near you soon. Who's hosting The Rundown? I don't believe anybody's been signed yet. Whoa, what if I told you it was me? I'd be lying, but what if I told you that? I'd be thrilled with that. I think that'd be a great choice.

Thank you, you're very kind, okay. I'm still waiting for that phone to ring. Maybe I should turn on the ringer. Maybe it has been ringing. All right, So one of the elusive guests on the agenda is our, now it's one, three majorities in a row, Doug Ford, Premier of this province. And I believe you've told me on a previous visit to the basement here that he's the first Premier not to appear on, to be interviewed on TVO.

During my time at TVO. That's right. But so I've been I've been at TVO was created. Right. Oh, well, it wouldn't be the agenda. But but every premier has been interviewed on TVO since the TVO was created. Correct. Until Doug Ford.

I don't know who your guests are because you got a month of shows left to go. The final episode of The Agenda is going to air on June 27. Will Doug Ford be one of these guests? I mean, you have to ask him. But I mean, to the best of my knowledge right now, given that his staff don't return my emails and I would say that it's not going to happen. But you know, it's a funny thing because Premier Ford and I have a perfectly good, I would

say even a warm, a professional relationship. We really do. When we see each other, when we're in each other's company, it's always very warm and very professional. He's been on the program a few times in the past as a leadership candidate for the Progressive Conservative Party, as a candidate for Mayor of Toronto, and one time when he authored a book he uh...

trying to remember what the name of the book was in a coordination isn't everything called for okay maybe maybe anyway so he's been he's been into our studio three times for interviews but for whatever reason i have been unable to convince his staff to have him come in for an interview on the agenda since he has been premier of Ontario over the last seven years. An interesting tidbit was revealed on Toronto Mike in May, which is only last month. My guest was Supriya Dwivedi. Do you know this name? Supriya Dwivedi? You're mispronouncing it. Say it to me. You don't pronounce the W. Supriya Dwivedi. Oh my goodness. She never corrected me

once. She's nice. She's nice and would not correct you. I'm not as nice. So I did correct you Okay, my apologies. So Supriya talked about her time at 640 She was on the air at 640 doing the the morning show with Matt Gurney and then with Mike Stafford They're both FOTM's as Supriya is now and she talked about the hotline There was a Doug Ford hotline and Doug Ford got straight on the air when he'd call and this apparently existed at 640 and 1010 They had these Doug Ford hotlines where he would call in there is no TVO hotline for Doug Ford And if there is he's never called it I guess that's right

And I think Donald Trump probably had the same kind of relationship with morning job Before he became president the first time whenever he called in they'd always just put him on the air. Yeah, no, no such luck We don't have that hotline. Interesting. I see you in a t-shirt and you're in a t-shirt. Of course, I mentioned the Hamilton Tigers, Oskiwiwi. That's what we say, right? Indeed. Well, when you say we, you're an Argo fan, so I don't think you say it, but I say it.

I have a Doug Flutie bumblehead right over here. So absolutely. I must confess, I did like Doug Flutie an awful lot. To me, he was the quintessential CFL player. And I know when he first came to Toronto to play for the Argonauts, we lined him up for an interview. And I remember thinking, you know what, let's not get them into a studio and do that.

Let's go out in a field. We'll toss a ball around for a while. We'll do an interview at a, at a, you know, on a, on a football field. Right. And we did that. And, um, it's really one of the great memories of my time at TVO because he was

a perfectly wonderful guy and he and I both went to university in Boston so we had that little connection. Hail Mary Pass at Boston College. Absolutely. Do you remember who caught it? No. Phelan was his last name. It was either Jerry Phelan I think was his name.

You could look it up right now and see if I'm right. Oh, I will definitely be looking that up in the moment. Gerard Phelan? Gerald Phelan? Something like that. I will look it up once I set you up for this question. What game? That was the Orange Bowl game, right?

I've heard the radio call of that so many times. It's tremendous. It's a great moment in football. Great moment. And, you know, Doug Flutie made that moment happen for Boston College. I went to Boston University, so we're rivals in that regard. Well, yeah, you're looking it up now. I'm now looking it up as we speak. And yes, you are, once again, correct. It's Gerard Phelan.

Gerard, okay. Okay. It was 1984. Yeah. And it was University of Miami and Boston College. And Boston College was down 45 to 41 with mere seconds left. And at his own 48 yard line, Flutie launched his Hail Mary pass. It's an amazing, amazing play. And I'm trying to remember who the quarterback for Miami was.

I think it might've been Bernie Kosar. Oh, it would've been. I think he'd be right here. I think so. Okay, got me Googling here, Steve Paik. And is there any Googling during the agenda recording? So you have producers for that, don't you? No, I actually did it today. Yeah I did while I

was interviewing you know Fareed Zakaria from CNN? Yes I do. Okay so while I'm also from CNN we know each other. Oh yes of course. From Christmas parties and stuff. Of course yes you're their Canadian correspondent. While I was interviewing Fareed Zakaria about this new book he's got out which is quite fascinating I just for whatever reason I googled his Wikipedia page just because I thought maybe there'll be something there I can use and sure enough his birthday is January 20th. Do you know what happened on his birthday this year? The inauguration of Donald Trump. Correct. So I

threw a little question his way about that and he told a cute little story about it which I would not have known to ask had I not done a quick little Google search. You never know what you'll discover doing this and I can also tell you my oldest son's birthday is January 20th. So lots going on on that very important day. I'm very quickly, Bernie Kozar was in fact the quarterback and he passed, you ready for this? In this game, the hail flutie game they call it he passed for a school record That's the Miami Hurricanes for goodness sakes he passed for 447 yards and loss and loss. Oh my gosh

And failing himself caught 11 passes for 226 yards and two touchdown touchdowns and by way flutie in this game passed for 472 yards and three touchdowns. And by the way, Flutie in this game passed for 472 yards in three touchdowns. He became the first major college quarterback to surpass 10,000 yards passing in a career. What a game. I watched the game. It was phenomenal. I was actually, okay, 1984? Right. Because I remember this. November 23rd. I was working for CHFI. It was on the weekend, obviously. So I was working for CHFI it was on the weekend obviously so I was working for CHFI at the time and I think I was anchoring the news that day so I

had the game on in the newsroom while I was preparing the newscast. Unbelievable you know see we never know what's gonna happen I just mentioned my bobblehead of Doug Flutie and look where it brought us here that's what I love about it. So I have some questions so you you record the day you drop, you air an episode of the agenda, is that correct? Mostly. We tape on the day for that night. We can also tape on the day for the next night, or we can tape on that day for a week or two from now. But mostly it's the same day. So for the remaining episodes of the agenda, do you have it basically etched in stone? Who will be the guests?

I don't know about who will be the guests, but we know the subject matter of the shows. And I mean, remember we are, I mean, you and I are sitting here on Monday, June 2nd, taping this. Right. I shouldn't say taping because there's no tape anymore. We're recording this. I'll say to people, yeah, it's live to tape. And then I realize, yeah, that's an antiquated expression.

So we're recording this, which meant that we have. Oh, I'm supposed to be recording this. Which means we have 20 episodes left. Four of those episodes will be on Poly podcast on Friday. So we really only have 16 episodes left of the agenda, technically. Yeah. And we did one today. So 15 down to our last 15 shows. Is that right? Four times? Yeah, that's right. Okay. That that's not very many episodes. Are there any like elusive guests to come maybe that were you've wanted for, you know, 19 years, but you finally got because it's the end of the line. Like, is there a bet Miller or something? Like, what is bet Miller? Nice Carson reference. Right. Thank you. I was thinking Krusty the Clown, Krusty gets canceled, but both are true. Okay, so like, A, I'm wondering what can we expect

for that final episode on Friday, June 27th, when you shout out Toronto Mike's 51st birthday, what can we expect that? And also, are there any special guests that people will be like, oh, he got that person? Well, the short answer on that is I don't know because I don't think, you know, we're not booking guests

into the third and fourth week of June yet. So I thought maybe you would book that far out. I don't think so. With like an ability to pivot should something break. Exactly, exactly. I think we have a sense of what the shows are gonna be about, but I don't think we know yet who the guests are gonna be.

Look at that final show on Friday, the 27th of June. The first half of it will be the On Poly podcast with JMM and me. And then the back end of the program, whatever, the last 15, 20 minutes will, you know what? I don't know yet. I don't know. To be discovered. This is of course June 27, the day after TMLX 19, which is taking place at Great Lakes Brewery, I know already, because we talked beforehand, that you are unable to attend this Toronto Mike listener experience. My daughter's graduating from university that day. That's right.

So I get it. I got that on June 20. But you know what? I think of a different anniversary. When you tell me June 26, 2025, I think to myself 30 years ago that day Mike Harris was sworn in as the Common Sense Revolutionary Premier of Ontario 22nd Premier of Ontario, you know, you should co-host this podcast You can have on Polly and you could be Toronto Mike's coast. Well, you have time here number one

You don't need a co-host you you're very good at flying solo and number two. Trust me I will drop that little nugget on on Polly that week. Okay. Love it. Love it. Okay. So I brought up, I realized- Oh, Mike, hang on. While we're at it- Yeah, yeah. Then I have to remind me to get back to your T-shirt. Okay. But while we're at it, I would also say June 26th will be the 40th anniversary of the David Peterson government being sworn in at Queens Park in 1985. Everybody knows that, Steve. Well, here's why that one's bigger, bigger than the harris anniversary and that is because david peterson when he was sworn in on that date was the first liberal premier of ontario in forty two years it had been forty two straight years of

progressive conservative governments all the way from george drew to frank miller and mr peterson was the first non-Tory Premier in 42 years. And that's the 40th anniversary of which is also on the 26th. Love it. Fun facts. Mind blows. Love it. So I mentioned you're wearing a t-shirt because I'm just going to point out and you're here to put on the definitive record that when Steve Pagan, I'll talk about you like you're not here. When Steve Pagan is recording a podcast, he rocks a t-shirt. But when Steve Pagan is recording a podcast. He rocks a t-shirt But when Steve Pagan is on the agenda, he's all dressed up. Yeah, right and I love the fact this happened almost accidentally. Yeah

For the podcast. I mean, I've always worn a suit and tie on the air and when we started the on poly podcast On television as well like we've done it audio only for four years in this year we put it on television as well or last year whatever they said it you know you don't have to wear a suit and tie in a podcast and i said well what should i wear them and they said well kinda wear whatever you want and because it's far more casual and it's a different vibe in the whole thing completely different but

and so i just started the first thing i started do was wear stuff that kind of was Ontario themed. I wore a t-shirt with a map of the province of Ontario on it. I wore a t-shirt with a highway sign on it. I wore a t-shirt with some Manitoulin Island stuff on it because I got a camp there. And then as the thing evolved, I started to think, you know what, I did what you and I just did right now. Oh, there's this anniversary coming up of such and such a premier doing this. Maybe I'll put a picture of, I'll wear a t-shirt with that premier's face on it.

And it's just evolved to the point where, yeah, that's what we do now. You should be writing articles at tvO.org about the shirt you wore on On Pauly that week. Which one? Like just everyone. Oh, any of them. Yeah.

You're saying that as a comb idea. Because there's a column story to every t-shirt you decide to don for that recording. Let's hear from you the story behind the t-shirt. That's a good point. Well, last week we did it, we, for the first time ever, I think we did the On Poly podcast at Victoria University at U of T in the Isabel Bader Theatre in front of a live audience and it happened to be on the 162nd I think anniversary of John

Sandfield McDonald becoming not the first premier of Ontario which he also was but this was becoming the premier of United Canada so this is before confederation right and he was the premier of that. So I had a t-shirt with John S, not John A. Let's not confuse these two people. John Sanfield McDonald, who's got a statue up at Queens Park, as does John A. McDonald. Now they're going to uncrate that. They're going to unbox. Yep. There's going to be an unboxing. They are. John A. McDonald.

He's back, baby. Okay. Wow. All right. So I have a question about your guests on the agenda and how we're now winding down. And, you know, I only entered your life in the last, I don't know, seven years or something like that. So you did 19 years of the agenda. The last seven years, I've been in your orbit. Okay. We have become friends. Oh, I know where this is going. And I've never had you on. You couldn't figure out at some angle somewhere because you know CNN has me on, but TVO, the phone never rings. I'm still waiting for that call.

Here's the thing and people are now going to find out one of the biggest differences between public television and private television. In private television, the anchor really is kind of the king or the queen. The anchor says in private television, I want this person on the show that I host, then that's what happens. It doesn't work that way in public television. In public television, I and the producers pitch story ideas and guest ideas to the executive producer

and she decides who gets on. She decides which subjects we will do and which guests will get on. Not me. You can't throw a wink or something. So, wink wink. Mike, I'm sure that over the course of the time I've known you, I pitched having you on the program and for whatever reason you just did not impress her enough. Am I 0 for 6, 0 for 7? Like I'm curious how many times was I pitched and then disregarded. You know what I think I've been 0 for seven the last two weeks and pitch meetings I've pitched seven story ideas the last two editorial meetings which we have

every week Wow and I am over seven yeah I'm like Trevor stories batting average these days okay I'm checked out but what about a podcast that's not on poly which has a very specific agenda and it's very good podcast, by the way. Congrats on that. And you and John Michael McGrath, who I did recently book on humble and Fred to recap the federal election we had on, was it April 28th or whatever the heck that was. So he was great. I think he got the vibe and he seemed to be a big fan of humble and Fred, which humble and friend Fred really liked. So it was a good vibe. Everybody was happy. But why don't you start a podcast

where you decide who you talk to? Funny you should say that, Mike. Yes. I mentioned to you that, you know, in my post agenda life, I have, I'm trying to fly about 20 different planes right now, and we'll see which ones I can land and I very much hope to create my own show where I can be more of the decider. So we'll see how that goes. Will that

be affiliated with the public broadcaster as TVO? No, because I'm doing on poly with TVO. So this will be a different thing on my own if I can make it happen. Well I was going to ask you, because you talked about these 14 things you want to do and the obvious question the obvious if I Were a an award-winning professional host. I would ask you What will these 14 things be outside of the TVO things? You'll be continuing to do well put it this way. There are There are a bunch of different buckets of stuff that I'm interested in. I'm interested in podcasting. I'm interested in producing another documentary. I'm interested in the post-secondary world.

And I'm interested in writing books. So if you were to say, Steve, is your post-agenda life going to include any or all of those things? The answer I would give you is, I hope so. So you're not going to give us any more than that right now because all this is in flux, perhaps? Maybe the ink has to get the dot these i's and cross these t's. I'm trying to make it all happen and it hasn't happened yet and if and when it does happen, I'd love you to bring me back. Of course.

We'll talk about that. Of course. You can move in if you want. bring me back. Of course. We'll talk about that. Of course. You can move in if you want. By the way, you just use the, you know, the analogy or whatever, which planes I can land. And I think that's also an excellent teaser for season two of the rehearsal, which you're gonna watch, okay? Which, which, which planes can you land? Okay. I have a clip I'm dying to play for you, but I did start talking about TMLX19 about a half an hour ago, and I would like to let the listenership know that everyone is invited. If you can hear my voice, you're invited. I hope John Michael McGrath can make it. It would be amazing. But everybody can come to TMLX19. It's a free event. It's at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard, which is in South Etobicoke

down the street from the Costco. That is Great Lakes Brewery. That's a harder word for me to say than it is for Steve Pagan to say. But that's where they brew the beer for goodness sakes. And we're going to have an event from 6 to 9 p.m. on June 26th. And not only is your first beer on the house, we love fresh craft beer from Great Lakes. I have some fresh craft beer for you, Steve Pagan. Steve Pagan Thank you, sir. And I will happily say that I have been to your TMLX's in the past and they are they're really a great party you've

always got fabulous people who show up so I make new friends I reacquaint with old friends and of course I get to see you. And am I right that you did meet Troy Burch at the GLB Blue Pub for a beer in recent history? Absolutely did yep and in fact you know what? It's interesting. I told him I wanted to do a show on craft brewing and we sat down and I sort of did a, I guess what you'd call a pre-interview with him during our lunch. I took notes, got some ideas for, you know, subject matter that we should do the show on, potential guests. And ironically, you know, I wanted him to come on and the day that I finally got the green light to do the show, he couldn't come on. So we did the show, but without him.

But it was a good show on on, you know, smaller breweries around Ontario. Yeah, I mean, Great Lakes is the fiercely independent, great brewery that was there earlier today to enjoy some sunny side on the patio. So, so they'll buy you your first beer at TML X 19. So Great Lakes will buy you your first beer and then Palma Pasta, delicious, authentic Italian food. You're married to an Italian, you know good Italian food, Steve Pagan. They're going to feed us. So it's a free ticket, six to nine Great Lakes brewery in South Etobicoke.

You get a beer, you get some Palma Pasta, you get to hang with good FOTMs, you get to see me and we're going to have a great time andOTMs, you get to see me, and we're going to have a great time. And we'll miss you this time, Steve, but I'm hoping you can make the next one at GLB Brew Pub in either late September or early October. Beautiful. Only if you invite me. I would invite you personally. And I do have in my freezer, before you say the hey there, I do have a palma pasta lasagna for you to take home. Thank you, Michael. That's very generous of you. Yes, indeed.

What were you going to say say there hey is for horses I was not gonna say that I was gonna say which municipality in old Toronto is this GF your your TML X happening at so the one on June 26 yeah it's in what do they call that Queens way stone it's the neighborhood above Mimico, whatever, because it's just a little bit north of the QEW in South Etobicoke. What is that called? I think it's called Queensway. The Queensway, I think they call that neighborhood.

I'm very partial to all the old names before Toronto. The neighborhood names, like you're in New Toronto right now. Yeah. Yeah, me too. I like the old names too. I know there's Alderwood, which is a bit north of Long Branch and then from Long Branch, which is on the water. You got New Toronto where you are now. And then like a panhandle is Mimico, the big beast that is a Brendan Shanahan's Mimico. Yes, indeed. That's north of us and it's

east of us. And I think they have a new neighborhood they call Humber Bay Shores that takes you to the Humber River. And then of course, that's the end of Etobicoke because on the other side of the Humber River, you're in good old Toronto. You know, I'm a former City Hall reporter. My first job, first professional job in 1982 was covering Toronto City Hall. I was the, I was the Bureau Chief, if you can imagine, of one person for CHFI and CFTR as we then called it.

And I used to file stories for both of those radio stations. And oh, look at this, you've given me a CFTR 680. Just to hold, not to keep. That's from, you know, that's from Wacko Macco, Evelyn Macco. Oh, well, I used to work with her, of course. Yeah, back in the day. So I was, you know, remembering my time at City Hall, I was so partial. I loved all those old names, you know, like Swansea and Forest Hill and, you know, Downsview

and West Hill and Scarborough and all this kind of stuff. So I like all these neighborhood names. And when Toronto became the mega city, when Mike Harris was premier and became one single tier government, the 416, I was a little worried that a lot of these names might get lost in the shuffle and I'm glad to see that they have not. No no people are from Leslieville or are they're from Riverdale where I was biking yesterday and yeah people Bloordale yeah these names are gonna live forever again if any guest comes over and tells me that they're in Mimico, I get very angry Steve Pagan. I get red

I start to fume because you're not in Mimico. Okay. Once you're in the numbered streets, you've left Mimico baby We're in New Toronto. You're in New Toronto. Okay. Shout out to New Toronto. Okay. That's where the Leafs practice You know, yeah New Toronto MasterCard Center. Well now yeah, they changed the name to Ford Center of Excellence or something But it's no longer MasterCard, but these corporate names, my goodness gracious. Okay, so you got the lasagna in the freezer. One last gift here before I play a clip, because we're going to go back and just remember some bacon on your way out here.

But I have a measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home. Thank you, Mike. You've given me one of these before, which is in my home in the city and the new one you give me I will take up to Manitoulin Island because we need one there too. Oh my goodness Gracious. That's what an honor for Brad Jones who hosts Life's Undertaking a fantastic podcast from Ridley Funeral Home. By the way when you were talking to Troy over that beer about a craft beer podcast you know he started one right? Not podcast we talk about an episode of the agenda. Okay okay because he did launch shortly thereafter we together because I get to partner with this one we launched between two fermenters which

is the it's which is a great podcast actually it's really yeah so you ready for a little time machine this is about a minute as well and no it won't be as exciting as my first pitch but let's listen to 1992. And a new face here in TV Ontario, but certainly no stranger to television viewers in Ontario and in fact the viewers across Canada who know him for his energetic and informative role on CBC and CBC News World. I'm delighted, completely delighted to welcome Steve Pakin to his first appearance on TVO. Welcome Steve. Thank you very much. It's been worth waiting for up we wish you many many happy decades ahead

thanks very much only and it has been uh... it's been a terrific day here at tb o for our first broadcast uh... we've had a wonderful open house and you can see around us here but there are lots of people in the background who are joining us today for this open house it's you've got a wonderful spirit here led by you you won't remember't remember this, but I interviewed you when I was at News World once. You told me some of the great movies that you'd enjoyed watching that year. Good grief, how long was that?

How long was it? A few years ago. Forty years ago, eh? Wow. It wasn't forty years ago, but it was long enough ago. It's great to be here. I've always admired the programming that you folks do here at TV Ontario. I'm thrilled that I'm going to be able to join you and do some of it, starting tonight.

Bravo, my friend. Bravo. Oh, boy. I get so verklempt listening to that. That was, yeah, that was day one when, look, let's put it this way, when Elie Yost, who was Mr. TVO back in the day, host of Saturday Night at the Mov movies for all those years and magic shadows. And when he puts his hand on your arm and he says, welcome young fella to TVO. It just really was, it was beautiful.

And I remember the moment as if it were yesterday. And I'm glad that you could only hear it and not see it because I had the worst mullet haircut then, which was appalling but so did Doug Flutie yes he did earlier but you know this is 1992 we were rocking the Yammer Yager had one yes he did yeah I guess it was the thing back then yeah what about a key breaky heart man I think Billy Ray Cyrus was rocking a mullet back then yeah oh that's wonderful to hear that that's wonderful day Elway was such a lovely guy. The nice thing about him was that what you saw on TV was the way he really was. And of course his son Graham has become a huge success in California, in Hollywood, making movies, making television shows.

Boy, thank you for doing that. That was really nice. So that was 1992. Yes. So, you know what, I'm gonna put pin in this because I'm not quite gonna go there yet. Pin in this. People say that in board rooms. Oh, I thought you said pit and I thought you don't put a pit in it. You put a pin in it. Pin. You put a pin in it. My apologies. Okay. Al Greggo, who hosts, I mentioned, Mineris has an award winning podcast called it's called Yes Yes We Are Open.

And it's hosted by a gentleman named Al Grego. You've probably met at a TMLx event or two. Al Grego wants me to ask you, and while I'm saying the name Al Grego, let me just tell you that he flew to Regina and collected inspiring stories from small business owners in Regina. And he's been sharing those stories in season eight of Yes, We Are Open. So I just want you, Steve Paken, to know that you're going to watch the rehearsal and you're going to listen to season eight of Yes, We Are Open, an award-winning podcast from Meneris. You got it?

I'm writing it down as we speak. Write that down. Al Grego wants me to ask you, and I'm going to read it verbatim, but you're not out because you're hosting on Poly and you're still writing articles for TV. You mentioned all the things you're still doing for TVO. So I know that, but Al Grego says, now that he's out, which side is he on? So Al is referencing the fact that you are deemed highly impartial, like that we don't know whether you're a righty or a lefty or a centrist or a red, blue, purple, who knows? He wants you to out yourself.

I'm going to hold my breath until you do it. Well, let me share a little story with you here. Well, let me share a little story with you here. I had the honor of being asked to moderate the leaders debate during the last federal election and after the debate was over, I went up to shake hands with all four leaders who were on the debate stage as if to, you know, just sort of check in, you know, sort of say, hope you thought I handled things fairly and I hope you thought it went well. And the first one was Yves-Francois Blanchet from the Bloc Québécois. hope up hope you thought by handle things fairly and i hope you thought it went well and first one was the first one was shaped from the block of a call all he did said

to me was bravo so he was happy uh... next went to jug me to him we actually had a bit of a long conversation and the former n d p leader uh... sort of uh... said to me i'm looking up at the clock on the wall right now and it says i got the least amount of speaking time out of any of the leaders and i thought oh boy here comes comes and he said but you know I

think I got a chance to make my points so I think it went fine so yeah you did fine okay very good the next person over was Pierre Polly F and I went to talk to him and he said to me I just spent two hours with you and I have no idea how you'd vote. And I said, well, thank you. That's kind of what I go for. And then I mentioned to him that I said, you know, I have four kids. The oldest one is a liberal, the second born is a New Democrat, the third born is a communist,

and the fourth born, the baby, is a conservative. And, you know, I think that, you know, and then I sort of, I think I jokingly said, so I did my job, you know, I never cared what party or what partisan affiliation my kids wanted to have. I just wanted them to be, you know, engaged citizens who gave a damn about politics and it seems like all four of them have done that. So I'm glad about that. It makes you an ideal moderator for a debate because everyone either thinks they all think you're against them or you're all for them. There is no sense of subjectivity there. Thank you. I mean, it's a compliment.

Well, look, I can tell you this because I know myself relatively well after I'm going to be 65 next week. So I know myself relatively well. And I can tell you that a lot of people, I know what questions coming now. I know what questions coming now. I'm not asking it because every time you're in the basement, I ask you if you dye your hair and I'm not doing it this time, Pagan. But the answer is the same.

I am not dying my hair. But I didn't ask. Okay. Don't ask. Come on. I got Pagan. But the answer's the same. I'm not dying my hair. But anyway. I didn't ask. Don't ask, don't tell. Come on, I got some gray flecks coming in on the side. You can see them now. Anyway, some people define their political interest by affiliating with a particular political party.

And I don't, and I never have, and I've never felt a need to. So there you go. And I think it's wild. You have four, we each have four kids, but do you have four kids and they're four different stripes of the political spectrum? Yeah, they are. And I know your wife is conservative. Yeah, she is. So,

and it sounds like your youngest took that on from, is it him or her, her mom? Who is your young? My daughter's your daughter. Okay. So she, similar to her to her mother. You know, I'm sure my wife gets some of the credit for the fact, if I can use that word, some of the credit for the fact that my daughter is a progressive conservative. On the other hand, and I think this is a little bit controversial, and I probably shouldn't say it but here we go. I know you have to say it. Sorry Julia if I get you into trouble with this. I think part of the reason my daughter is a conservative and she's 22 years old now, she just graduated from Queen's University, is that a lot of her professors were very left-wing and I think they wanted her to be very left-wing and as a result I think she rebelled and i think there are a lot of other young people well i mean the results of

the last election confirm that there are a lot of young people in canada today who are very interested in you know conservative partisan politics and i think my daughter's one of those people who who uh... you know had some exposure to what that you know she and others would call a too woke agenda, and as a result, she rebelled.

I think that's the biggest reason why she's a conservative. Not to take anything away from my wife's influence, but I think that's the biggest reason why she's a conservative. Well, you know her better than I do. That makes sense to me. A couple of quick notes because another question came in for you. But I did want to ask you really, really quickly when you were moderating that federal leadership debate that we had before this most

recent election, were you at all aware that there was any kind of anything, any friction, anything happening with the cbc as relevant no we had all aware of what was going on there i wasn't because it was in a different building i was i was in a in a completely different location i was uh... on the debate stage in state on the debate stage afterwards to a quick postmortem with the producers of the debate all of the

michigas that was happening with the press conference afterwards was in a completely different space and i didn't find out about it until probably an hour and a half later when I went up to the CBC offices in Montreal and turned on the TV and saw, you know, all of the people talking about it. David Cochran, I think, was one of the gentlemen who were very frustrated by all of that. Okay, so that's rebel news and CBC. You were not privy to any of that. But the question came in from DJ Dream Doctor and he wants me to ask you what you experienced during, we're going back 15 years here, but

during the 2010 police crackdown in Toronto, he remembers you being caught up in all of that. That was the day when I discovered the power of social media because just to remind everybody, the G20 had come to Toronto and there were enormous protests all over the city. There was, I think, a couple of police cars that were torched and there were some buildings that were damaged and vandalized. And I basically, at some point, just left the briefing centre, which I think was at Exhibition Place, and just got in a car and started to drive around the city and follow

where the protests were going and I saw yes I did see and started to tweet I think for the first time that night or certainly you know live tweeting what I was seeing right a lot of police malfeasance and it was not good I saw people being abused I saw them being brutalized I saw them being rounded up and put into cruisers and taken away for doing nothing other than sitting on a sidewalk peacefully protesting. It was completely inappropriate and of course I think there were public inquiries called into all this and there was a lot of further investigation. I started that evening with two thousand followers on Twitter and by the time the evening was

over, because I think I was the only reporter who actually sort of just sort of by following my nose found himself in the middle of some very violent protests. And I started to tweet about it and I had eleven thousand followers by the time the evening ended and i think that the last thing i remember was a police officer coming up to me and saying you can either leave right now this scene on the esplanade that you're where you're covering events

you can either leave on your own or you can leave in a police car cuz we're gonna arrest you wow but you can make the decision yourself and i'm sitting there you know like i'm dressed in a suit and tie. I'm tweeting. I'm, I'm clearly not participating in the demonstration. I'm covering it. And I said to him, I'm just being a reporter here. I'm just covering this event. I'm not participating. And he said, well, you know, we have orders to clear the space. And I thought to myself, well, I'm not going to be able to do much reporting in a jail cell. So unlike the other 1500 people who were arrested that night, I did not go to jail. I decided to leave on

my own. I went home and I started to continue tweeting and write a column and book a show for the next day and there you go. Wow, that's that's a shocking that we're talking about my home city Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Yep. It was, you're quite right, it was, it was an appalling evening. I mean, no one should be, this is a long time ago, now it's 15 years ago, but nobody should be arrested for peacefully protesting the fact that the leadership of the 20 biggest economies in the world decide to have a meeting in your city. Peaceful protest is a long-standing, never mind it's a constitutionally protected right, it's a long-standing, perfectly legitimate

tradition in the capital city of the province of Ontario. Period. Full stop. It's a pillar of democracy. Yeah and people should not have been kettled for doing it. What do you think of the I? Can't remember what we're calling this the the bubble legislation. Yeah, the city. What are your thoughts on that? Well, it's interesting because we do have charter rights to protest but we don't have Unlimited charter rights to protest wherever we want whenever we want about what whatever we want You know, there are some there's there's a clause in the Constitution that says, you know, these rights are guaranteed

as is consistent with a reasonable democratic society. And you know it seems to me not unreasonable, regardless of what groups are involved, that you shouldn't necessarily be able to protest, certainly not violently, but maybe even not loudly, for example outside a house of worship, let's put it that way. So I don't think there's anything inconsistent. I'm not a lawyer but I would say that if it's worded correctly it's not necessarily

inconsistent with the Charter. It won't be deemed unconstitutional. Well that'll be up to some judge to figure out, but you but I can't figure that out, but it's not on the face of it necessarily unconstitutional. So I will tease a upcoming episode of Toronto Miked with Ed Keenan from the Toronto Star. Oh yeah. Well, we will talk about that.

He's got some more to say about some councillors who may have voted in support of the bubble legislation? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Knowing that it would not hold up to a constitutional challenge and there's some discussion to be had there.

And again, that's gonna be of Ed Keenan when he drops by for his quarterly visit. On the live stream, there's a great FOTM named Tyler Campbell. Tyler's from Hamilton. So I'm gonna bring it back to Hamilton. But Tyler chimes in to say Great Lakes Brewery is in the neighborhood known as Stonegate Queensway. Oh, there was close. Like I think I had it.

You had the Queensway in there. I had to put it all together here. Okay. So speaking of Hamilton and you, you love people refer to the old names, et cetera. I did have, and I think you played a role in introducing me to Ian Thomas. I want to give you credit for that. Yes. But I had Dave Thomas and Ian Thomas on. I know you've had Dave Thomas on recently. Yeah. But we had Ian on years ago. Of course. Yeah. So this all goes back. So on the show, I think I told, I mentioned that they were from Hamilton. I was corrected immediately by the Thomas brothers. They're not, yes, they're from Dundas, not Hamilton, so I got an education there. You're both right because Dundas, since Hamilton went to the Super City, in Toronto we called it the Mega City, in Hamilton it's

called the Super City, Dundas is now technically part of Hamilton. Have you heard the latest that Dave Thomas leaked on another podcast that the Martin Scorsese footage of that reunion has been handed over to who's got it now. It's a late night talk show host whose name is eluding me. Jimmy Kimmel? Yes, his production company. Okay, well he hosted the thing. So I think it's been handed to him for his company to carve out a documentary so we can

actually see this thing. Great because I was at that thing. I was at that taping. It was at the Elgin Theater, I think. Yeah, the Winter Garden. Elgin Winter Garden. Yeah. Right. And it was great. It was just great. Because you, as we know, your late mother was the biggest Martin Short fan. That is very true. Very true. Yeah. Martin Short. Well, all these guys like Eugene Levy,

Dave Thomas, Martin Short, they're all from Hamilton, Dundas, whatever. Yeah, they're all there. So I like I've known these guys for 60 years. I believe so. So your mother who passed away fairly recently, but a year and a half ago, a year and a half ago, she knew short Martin, since he was a teenager, right? Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. Well, not my dad would have, because my mom was from Toronto. And that's Larry. Yeah. Who almost became an FOTM that we never recorded the Father's Day Spectacular. Didn't quite happen.

Although we could do it this month if you were game. Didn't quite happen, but yeah. My dad's dad, Sam Paken, and Martin Short's dad, Charlie Short, were both in the steel business and they were great buddies. And that's where the relationship begins. Okay, love all this hammer talk, I'm telling you. I got a text the other day from Tom Wilson. When Tom Wilson texts, you jump on this thing.

And he was recommending somebody for Toronto Mike, who's also a Hamiltonian. Do you know the name Kathleen Robertson? I know a Kathleen Robertson, but it might not be the same. Is your Kathleen Robertson an actress? No. Okay. It might be a different, it sounds like a common name, but Kathleen Robertson was on Beverly Hills, 90210.

Oh, okay. This is like her claim to fame. Along with Aubrey. No, he's Degrassi. Oh, no, sorry. He's Degrassi. Right. She's 90210. Okay. This is like her claim to fame. So along with Aubrey. No, sorry, he's Degrassi. He's Degrassi. Right. She's 90210. Degrassi is the Canadian one. I got all confused there. Well, now I don't, you know, I get pulled into this universe, of course, because I'm on Tori Spelling's shit list. Oh, yeah. Oh, well, I listened to that. I remember it was a great effort to get that thing happening. Wow. Okay. And shout out to FOTM Jason Priestley, also a proud fellow Canadian.

Hey, Tom Wilson. Yeah. You want to know something about him? I would like to know everything about him. Okay. He and I, born in the same town, Hamilton. Yeah. Same birthday. But not the same year. Not the same year. Because he's older than you. He's one year older. One year older than you. He's one year older. One year older than you. Yeah.

Okay. You just did less drugs. Yeah. Well, yeah. Nothing ages somebody more than drugs. And he'd be the first to admit it. He's clean now. He's clean and sober now.

Yes. I think he is. Love that man. But he had a... I cannot compete in that department. No drugs. Have you ever done any drugs, Steve Paikin, on your way out of the agenda here? I think I tried a marijuana cigarette in grade-

Jazz cigarette? 1978 was the last time I toked anything. Wow. Sorry. No, listen, the Good Brothers had a song called the, what's it called? The Toke song, it'll come to me in a minute here. Okay, so I'm gonna shout out one more partner. One toke over the line, sweet darling. That's a great song. One toke over the It'll come to me in a minute here. Okay. So I'm going to shout out one more one partner Over the line, sweet darling. That's a great song over the line. Is that the one? I don't think that's the one

I think this one might be maybe it's about hash hash knife Hot knife hash, uh, but that song is a great uh toking song I need canada kev but I know in a moment I could go into the live stream and just see what the hell tyler Campbell's gonna tell me about what's the great token song from the Good Brothers, one of whom is an FOTM. Shout out to Brian Good. Okay.

So Nick Aines, you may have met him at GLB Brew Pub at a TMLX event last October. Oh yeah. You may have met him. Yeah. He owns Fusion Corp. Development. What he's done, Steve, and I love it because he stepped up to say, how can I help fuel the real talk? How can I support you? And he became a sponsor of the program. So I would like to shine a light on two of his excellent podcasts. One is called Building Toronto Skyline. And his recent guest

is Brad Bradford talking about affordable housing. So there's some overlap there. Saw him last week. Okay. He was he on a bike? He cycles. I think he just walked. We met near City Hall, so I think he just walked. He's running for mayor, right? Have you heard this? Yeah. He's made that official, right? No, he hasn't made it official, but he's gonna. He said he intends to run for mayor. I like this guy very much, but I also see that he finished like a distant eighth or something. Like it was really like Olivia Chow had over 260,000 more votes than Brad Bradford in the most recent mayoral election. Okay. Let's, let's put a little context around

this. Uh, that was a by-election in which a lot of people ran for mayor however one of the things we learned from that meryl election is that if you're going to have an ideological lean you can't have a whole lot of other people in that same lane with you right and olivia chow had basically the nbp lane if you like the left wing lane

and she had all herself she didn't have to compete with anybody in that lane. Whereas Brad Bradford competed with Anna Bailão and Josh Matlow and Anthony Fury and there were a bunch of other people in that lane as well and they all cannibalized that sort of center-right vote. Bailão particularly. She finished a strong second. Yep. So and look at know this, you've covered enough politics over the years, the fact that something happened, you know, two and a half years ago does not necessarily mean the same thing is going to happen next

time. The dynamic is different. We don't even know if John Tory is getting into the race, right? If John Tory gets into the race, that changes things up a lot. So the next race will be fascinating, but who knows who's in it and who knows how it'll end up. You never know. You never know. I do know that if you have old cables, old electronics, Steve Pagan, you're not going to throw them in the garbage. Because those chemicals end up in our landfill. So you're going to go to RecycleMyElectronics.ca. I also forgot to mention the second podcast from Nick Ainiis in which he coached me and I got a lot of feedback from this episode, but it's called Building Success Series. It's a Nick Aini's

podcast. And again, I was literally his guest and he basically coached me on how to generate more revenue from TMDS, my digital services. He said, sell, take it on some podcasts and triple your rates. I think that was the notes I took from that. How do you spell Aini? podcasts and triple your rates. I think that was the notes I took from that one. How do you spell Aini? A-I-N-I-S. It's a Greek name. Aini's. Good. Aini's. I have a clip from somebody that, you know, I mentioned earlier that Ian Thomas, I believe, was connected to me via you because you knew Ian back in the day there. And somebody else was

connected to me via you. I'm going to play a little clip of this gentleman. You know, Premier, I always call you Premier because you were. We always appreciate the and somebody else was connected to me via you. I'm gonna play a little clip of this gentleman. You know, Premier, I always call you Premier, cause you were. We always appreciate the fact that when we put out the call to you, you answer, you come on our program, you have many times over these years, and it's great to see you again, and keep on keeping on.

Thank you, Stephen. I just wanna say, you know, you and I've had sparring contests, you've chaired debates, I've been on shows when I wasn't comfortable in my own skin and I was just learning the ropes. So you and I have grown up together in this business and it's wonderful to be able to join you on this, at this moment in time, because you're just one of the great broadcasters. And by the way, your listeners should know we've become good friends.

No, it's great. You never have been much of a good judge of character, though, right? There we go. Anyway, Premier, Ambassador, Bob Ray, thank you very much. Thank you. Good to be with you. It was lovely. Bob Ray is an FOTM because you literally

ordered him to visit the basement. One could never order an ambassador to the United Nations to do anything. But I certainly suggested it would be he would enjoy it, and it would be worth his time. And he did it. And you had a great conversation. I remember I listened to that one. And look, he, he, he really caught me off guard at the end there because that was, I don't know, was that a week to maybe two, very recent. Yeah. Two weeks ago. And you know, what he said was true.

He and I have known each other since 1982 since he became the leader of the Ontario New Democrats and We have spent more than our fair share of time together you know on television doing various different things me sticking microphones in his face when he was premier of Ontario all that kind of stuff, you know where he ran for the national leadership of the Liberals and anyway, he's had one of the truly great careers in public service in the history of Canada and when he said at the end you know we've had our sparky moments over the years but but we're good friends now I really appreciated that I thought that was lovely and I you know he and I'll tell you what he was a law school classmate of a cousin of mine named Lee Paken. And Lee was lost to suicide many, many years ago. And I remember seeing Bob Ray at that

funeral, just inconsolable at the loss of his good friend and, and, and who happened to be my cousin. And, you know, Mr. Ray has seen his share of tragedy over the years. I'm sorry to get so maudlin on you here, but, but you know, over the four plus decades that we have known each other, you know, he's, he lost his in-laws in a car accident. He had a brother die from leukemia. My cousin Lee was another great friend who was lost to him. Jim Renwick, I'd put him on the list. Jim Renwick was a former member of the Ontario legislature who died very young, not short, not long after Bob Ray became leader of the Ontario NDP and I remember Mr. Ray being

very emotional at his passing as well. So you know over life you accumulate these moments of tragedy but you look at him right now at age 77, I think I asked him during the interview, so he's 77, and look how he continues to try to serve his country, which I think is admirable. And, you know, whatever people think about his politics then or now is irrelevant to me. The guy continues to make a contribution and for that, I think we owe him that respect. So I enjoyed that clip, not just because Bob Ray is an FOTM because you ordered him into my basement and he said, yes, sir, yes, sir. But the mutual respect, I'm a big fan of respect and you could cut it with a knife

in that short little clip. You respect Bob Ray, Bob Ray respects you, you become friends despite any differences of any nature and it's a beautiful thing. And I think I would echo Bob Ray's sentiments and I would say thank you to you, Steve Pagan, that you gave us the goods with the agenda. It's an excellent show.

We're gonna miss you. And I wonder in any sense, cause I'm gonna play a song on our way out, but I'm wondering in any sense, do you feel at all maybe, especially as June's just starting and it's gonna happen all month, like you're attending your own funeral?

Absolutely. And the funny thing is, when we made the announcement that the agenda was gonna be wrapped up at the end of June, I started getting, I'm happy to say mostly, positive emails from people saying how much they're going to miss it and you know, they thought I did an okay job, et cetera, et cetera. And I have said, oh, I think this is probably what it's like to die, you know, people say

a lot of nice things about you when you die. I'm glad to say there have been a lot of comments on the other side as well such as good riddance you won't be missed you were overpaid uh... you know you're a bum in the tank for party x party y party z you know i got a lot of that too and that's all about just that's fine everybody's entitled to react to all this stuff anyway they want

local or we're going out with francis albert'stson, that's a beautiful thing. I'll say it clear, I'll state my case Of which I'm certain I've lived a life that's full I traveled each and every highway and more, much more than this, I did it my way. Regrets. I haven't had any. I've had a few. That was my next question. Nope. had a few that was my next question nope then again too few to mention i did what i had to do sing along mike come on i saw it through without exemption

I planned each charted course, each careful step along the byway. And more, much more than this, I did it my way. Yes, there were times I was a little bit too late. Deep did it his way. Yes, there were times I sure knew. So no regrets, Steve Kagan. Absolutely not. I've had the great joy of going to work at the same place for 32 straight years and I've learned something new every day I've gone to work. What better job could you have? Will you miss the agenda? I imagine I will but

I have no regrets about the decision I think you know at the moment I'm not particularly verklempt about the whole thing maybe I will be in the last week but I haven't seen that final the back end of that final episode when when Bette Midler shows up. I'm pretty sure that's not gonna happen. She's gonna sing this song to you. What did she sing something for Johnny on his last show? Was it this song? Something like this. It was something like this but it wasn't this one. Oh, Wind Beneath My Wings. No she didn't say that. No no no. Okay. Oh my god. Well you know what? I forget and I've seen that show so many times. You and Frank, I'm gonna find that out while you maybe say some final words to the FOTM's

who will be tuned in on my birthday, June 27th, for the final episode of The Agenda. Well yeah, let's get this straight. The 27th of June will be an important day on the calendar because of course, Toronto Mike is turning 51 years old and has a complete head of gray hair whereas Paken on June the 9th is gonna turn 65 Wow and barely has any gray at all and Mike you your jealousy has really been you know does not great head of hair Steve's not becoming for a man of your stature that's all I have to say the song Bette Midler sang for Johnny Carson on the final episode wait don't tell me

don't tell me don't tell me, don't tell me. Don't tell me. No, no, no. Was it the Johnny Mercer song? One for my baby and one more for the road? There it goes. One more for my baby. Steve Pakin, good luck to everything.

We're going to let your hero, Frank Sinatra, take us home here. You did good, kid. Yes, it was my way I will. Always a pleasure, Steve Pakin. You know what I've always wanted to do on this show? I've always wanted to say, and that was episode 1703 of Toronto Mikes. More like this. And that. Come on, you can do it.

And that brings us to the end of our 1,703 show 1703. Mark Maron can never catch me now because he announced earlier today, he's wrapping it up at this fall. This autumn is the end of WTF podcast with Mark Maron so he can never catch me now. You're the king Mike. You come at the king Steve you best not miss. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. Steve's got his fresh craft beer here. Palma Pasta. I've got the lasagna in the freezer. Mineris. Listen to season eight of Yes We Are Open. Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. I know you're going to disappear

to Manitoulin Island at some point when the agenda is over, but if I could get you back to Christie Pitts to watch a game with me in the members lounge. It's an amazing experience. You, me, we'd be hanging with the snowman. I'm gonna make that happen again. Recyclemyelectronics.ca, Building Toronto Skyline, and Ridley Funeral Home. My next guest is Keegan Matheson. He wrote a book on the Toronto Blue Jays. It's called The Franchise. DPSales says, Kathleen went to Hillfield Strat Hallen. Is that your high school, Steve? Yeah. Also, it is. So Kathleen Robertson from 902.0.

It's the same one. Who's younger than you. She's about my age. So much younger than you. Is this your high school? Hillfield Strat... How do you say that name? Strathallan in Hamilton. Strathallan in Hamilton.

Oh, so we weren't there at the same time. No, you weren't there at the same time. No, but that's a fun fact. See you all later this week! So So Thank you.