Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Steven Del Duca: Toronto Mike'd #708

Episode Date: August 18, 2020

Mike chats with Ontario Liberal Party leader Steven Del Duca about his swimming pool, Doug Ford's back-to-school plan, our climate emergency and the sweet soul of Otis Redding.

Welcome to episode 708 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. Garbage Day, weekly reminders for garbage, recycling, and yard waste pickup. Visit GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike to sign up now. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. The Keitner Group.

They love helping buyers find their dream home. Text Toronto Mike to 59559 and pumpkinsafterdark save 10% with the promo code TRONOMIKE and Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com

and joining me this week is the leader of the Ontario Liberal Party, Stephen Del Duca. Welcome, Stephen. Great to be here. Thanks, Mike, for having me on. When you first arrived, I looked up and I said, good, sunny, sunny, sunny day. And then just as I was reading the intro, I did look over my right shoulder and it looked like a dark cloud. It just come right over my backyard. I hope. So if it rains, you're going to see some frantic activity as I grab umbrellas and protect my my gear here. So you're in for a show.

I brought a squeegee for my head just in case. Well, you know, I don't mean I'm above hair jokes here, Stephen. You're in the big leagues here. I'll try to raise my game for you. Let the CBC do the hair jokes. But thank you so much. This is a big deal because I'm breaking a rule I've had. So I have been broadcasting here on Toronto Mic'd for over eight years,

over 700 episodes of what I call real talk. And I've never had an active politician on the program. Oh, wow. That's incredible. I'm honoured. You should be because I took a lot of flack. So let me... Like I was surprised at the blowback.

I'll read you one tweet. Phil Franco tweets at me, political talk, pass, BS a coming. Sorry, Mike, don't go down that rabbit hole. So that was like typical, like BS a coming. So here, right off the top, I'm looking in the eyes, Stephen Del Duca here in the TMDS studio backyard, or the TMDS backyard studio if you will

for Franco and everyone else who's expressed this concern is BS a coming? I'm going to do my best not to deliver any of that but I'm looking forward to the conversation and we don't have to talk much about politics that's the best part I mean you're welcome to but we don't have to could you imagine it was just a well we will start with some lighter stuff but could you

imagine i didn't i just skipped the whole politics and uh people think they're way to go so i also just since we're doing this and i figure if i'm going to do this i just need to extend this invitation so very publicly let me be very clear that if uh if doug Doug or Andrea or Mike, if they want to come in the TM to the Toronto Mike, uh, studio in the, in my safe backyard, they're welcome to. So I'm just extending that.

That's great. And I look, I will say to all of them and any others, it's a great backyard. I hope they seriously consider the offer. Thank you. Do you say that to all the backyards? You you're in charge of the rain.

If you hear rain, uh, I'm just pointing to, uh, all these great helpers we have because i literally felt a drop and i thought this was like i checked the forecast and they said oh this is a safe day so this could get it could get interesting but uh so steven uh by the way may i call you steve or is it steven you know i'm okay with uh whatever you want to

call me for the most part it's my mom who gets really upset when people call me Steve versus Steven, but I'm fine with it. So I don't want to upset your mom. No, you shouldn't. She's my mom's Scottish and she's, you know, she's, she, she can be fiery and she would, she would hate to hear me describe her that way, but it's okay. No, I'm going to, for your mom's sake, I'm going to stick with Steven.

So I don't want to, I don't want to upset anybody, but we're going to kick out a jam off the top, and then we're going to get into it here. But in fact, this is a jam. You've chosen this song, and it's got a slow burn. I really love this song. But here, I'm going to start it going, because we can kind of talk over it.

For the first, I'd say, two and a half minutes, it sort of slowly builds up and burns. Because I'm going to turn it up and just listen to it sort of slowly builds up and burns so because i'm going to turn it up and just listen to it when otis gets going in the uh i don't know two and a half minute mark but tell me why you love this song from otis redding try a little tenderness i've i've loved this song for years and it's i know it's from an earlier era but i just find it to be i find it to be so soulful and i love the build-up, and I love

the sound of the piano or the organ in the background and the notes that he hits and the passion and the energy that's in his voice. I've always loved this song. I'm thinking now, Dwight, I'm going to get my wife to bring out a second umbrella just in case because it's starting to rain here. So, here's what we're gonna

do you hold this over the laptop and board we'll let the jam play and i'll be right back yes anticipating a thing that she'll never never never never possess ya But while she's there waiting Without them try My little tenderness That's all you gotta do It's not just sentimental, no, no, no She has her grief and care, yeah, yeah, yeah

But the soft words, they all spoke so gentle, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the soft words, they all spoke so gentle, yeah. It makes it easier, easier to bend, yeah. You won't regret it, no, no. And I'm back for the best part. I can't believe it. Okay, so congrats on your taste in music. That was fantastic. It was a great song. Yeah. Okay. You know what?

That's it, I think. Okay, so I got two umbrellas on standby. Usually that big umbrella is beside my table. I moved it for you because I'm such a good host here, but I will be ready for if the rain returns, but I think we're going to be okay here, Steven. So it must've been the song,

the song pushed away all the clouds. And, uh, just, just, it's just a soulful number that, uh, that you dig because you're a human being.

And who doesn't like that song? I don't know if I'd have a guest over who tells me they don't like that song. Just a great song. What about the Kanye West, are you familiar with the Kanye West Jay-Z remix of the song called Otis? I'm aware that it exists,

but I'm going to stick with the original. Okay, no more Kanye West questions for you then. Let's see now. You're a leader without a seat. So can I ask, what is the plan essentially? Like, are you going to go back to run for the Vaughan seat that you held from 2012 to 2018? Please tell me the plan. Yeah, that is the plan. You know, I said this during the leadership campaign as I was running, you know, I didn't win my seat again in 2018. It was a tough election locally in my riding, but also for Ontario Liberals across the province. And I said that I think one of the things that's really important for us

as we rebuild our party, that we reconnect with Ontarians where they live. And I love being an MPP at Queen's Park. I hope to one day again be an MPP at Queen's Park. But I, you know, getting stuck inside that building and being very focused on what happens inside those four walls means we're not actually talking to everyday people. And I think that's one of the reasons that we were so unsuccessful in 2018 that we'd fallen a bit out of touch. So I'm focused on what's happening outside those four walls. Didn't anticipate a pandemic would disrupt everything immediately following the leadership convention, but we're rolled with it.

We're working with it and we're doing our best. Yeah, your timing's impeccable. I mean, I've used the word unprecedented way too many times on this podcast, but I don't have another decent word for this. But, you know, when we think of politicians, we think like handshakes and kissing babies, and they're both banned right now. They are both banned for the foreseeable future. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, maybe we get rid of handshake just altogether. Like it was never a good idea. It's a reflex though. You know, it's true.

Even when I go to events now that I've started to tour again, you walk into a physically distant room and your first inclination instinctively is to try to reach out and shake a hand. But, you know, we can't right now, nor should we. Let's, before I get to some tougher questions here, like let's talk about the lay of the land that you're inheriting.

So how many MPPs right now at Queen's Park are from the Liberal Party? There are eight. There are eight members of the Liberal caucus. Yeah, so you got some work to do. We have a lot of work to do, but the good news is those eight are very strong, very experienced very

passionate working really well together none of us underestimates the scale or scope of the challenge that lies ahead but i feel really encouraged about some of the progress that we've made over the last five months recognizing we still have a lot more to do uh okay so i was reading this article and it talked about uh you inherited uh like a $6 million party debt. Okay. And in this article, it talks about how you paid down half of this $6 million debt through some restructuring, eliminating party membership fees, and trying to broaden your base, you know. And it's all this great stuff.

But I have a really simple question. I'm not a politico here. But my real simple question is, like, where does that $3 million come, like, where does the $3 million come from? Yeah, it's a combination of fundraising. So we reformed political finance rules when we were last in power. So there, you know, you can't take corporate or union money anymore. You've got to take it from individuals only. There's a smaller cap annually on how much an individual can give. So part of it's fundraising, trying to raise money from individuals who want to support what the party's doing. And there's also a subsidy that's in place for registered political parties based on the amount of votes they got in the preceding election.

So there's an amount that each party, us and the other main political parties, receive from the Treasury every year. So a combination of both of those kinds of, if I can call it, fundraising. Okay. You're okay if I crack open a cold Great Lakes beer here? Absolutely. Okay, so I'm cracking open, just so people know at home, an octopus wants to fight IPA from Great Lakes Brewery.

They've been a longtime great sponsor of the program. If you wish, I know you've got a water going there, but there is some cold beer on the table for you. If you wish to join me. I noticed the cold beer. It's tempting, but I'm going to pass because I still have a lot of other stuff. But I think that might make it more interesting for,

uh, people, but you know, no judgment here, of course. Uh, yeah, you got to pass. Uh, and I'm just hoping the storm passes as well here. more interesting for uh people but you know no judgment here of course uh yeah you gotta pass

uh and i'm just hoping the storm passes as well here so another typical question i get so i said i have uh stephen del duca coming on and then i get the flag from what about the rule and then then i have this whole internal oh yeah but i'm breaking the rule and then i realize oh yeah this is my rule like i literally invented this rule like this isn't a rule that exists in the world of podcasting i one day decided i invented the rule like like what's the if i invent a rule i can break the rule you're in charge my rule right it's your it's your rule it's your backyard you're you're in charge right and yeah and is this is it true this is this your first in-person interview since you became a leader first in-person interview no not my first in-person interview since i became leader but it's the first in-person interview in quite some time

because of the pandemic okay so maybe since uh i always call it friday the 13th of march when everything because i won i won the proceeding on the saturday before oh i won on march the 7th i toured for three days monday tuesday wednesday got home on the thursday and by then okay you're connecting these dots so look this pandemic happens like a week into your reign i speak in a rain no pun intended but like the forecast was clear this was a bright sunny day you arrived and a black cloud came right it just rolled right in and the next thing you know what i'm frantically i you should see me in there i'm like where's the umbrellas my wife says oh there's one in the car. I'm in the car.

I'm looking for an umbrella. Maybe it's because you broke the rule, Mike. Maybe. So I got a question. Okay. This is Charles Brandt on Twitter. Okay. And these two subjects came up so often.

We actually have to talk about them now just so I can move beyond them here. Okay. So this is what we have to do. Please ask about the pool. Yeah. And go stations. Both of these are examples of using political power to influence over what rules dictated and experts suggested.

And then Cooksey, longtime listener, shout out to Cooksey, ask him about his pool and why rules don't apply to him. So let's, can we, can we talk about the pool? Whatever you'd like. I can imagine I did can we, can we talk about the pool?

Sure, whatever you'd like. I can imagine I did the whole episode and never mentioned the pool. They'd hang me. But okay, let me read the CBC thing just so we got a little baseline before we talk about it. So CBC says, Stephen Del Duca, the front runner in the race to become the next leader of the Ontario Liberal Party and his wife want the Toronto and Region Conservation Authority to hand over a section of protected land to save an in-ground pool they've built.

CBC News has learned. Del Duca and his wife, you'll correct me on this, Utila Amaro? Close, Utilia. Oh, Utilia, there's an extra vowel. I need my glasses. Live on a cul-de-sac in Vaughan. Their backyard is nestled against public parkland

that's part of the Humber River watershed. It's considered environmentally sensitive land and is controlled by the TRCA. Del Duca and his wife built the pool last summer without all the necessary permits, and it's too close to the parkland, according to municipal bylaws. All right, Stephen, let's hear from you.

What the heck happened here? Yeah, so we made the decision earlier in 2019 that we were going to build a pool. We've been talking about it for a few years. Our daughters are 12 and 9 now, actually. And so we made the decision we were going to put a pool in, mostly for them. And the good news is now that the pool is legal, they've enjoyed it for the most part over the course of the summer. I have sadly not as enjoyed it as much being, being busy, but we made the decision. We hired a contractor who had got quite a bit of experience in York region where we live. And there was a bit of a, I guess, a bit of a

snafu, a bit of a mix up around the permitting issue. You're required to have one from the conservation authority and one from the city. He was able to get the one from the Conservation Authority. He didn't follow through. Unfortunately, there was a bit of a breakdown in communication. He didn't get the one from the city. So did you think you had all the right permits? Well, until it was flagged for us that one of the permits was missing, yes, we did think that we had the permits. So it was embarrassing, still is. It was a mistake. It was an honest mistake. That's what I told CBC when they came for a visit to see the whole thing. And I also made a commitment that we would get it fixed and make sure that the pool was legal and we would take whatever rules, sorry, take whatever steps within the rules to get it

fixed. And fortunately, we've been able to do that this year. So we were able to open the pool back in July because we actually got the permit from the city a little bit late in the day. So what would you say to people like Cooksey who are telling me that rules don't apply to you, Stephen Del Duca? What would you say to them? I would say, you know, I think it was an honest mistake and I owned up to the mistake, not denying it all. You know, at the end of the day, it's one of these things that I wish hadn't happened in the moment. I wish it hadn't happened the way that it did. But I think in life, people expect that their politicians, their leaders will make honest efforts to do the best they possibly can. I don't think they expect perfection, which is good because they're not going to get perfection from me.

But at the end of the day, we managed to get it fixed and we did so within the rules. But at the end of the day, we managed to get it fixed, and we did so within the rules. Okay, the other one, of course, that kept coming up that we're going to talk about now is the GO Transit. So I'm going to read a little excerpt from the, this is from a Torstar paper. I think it appeared in the Star, but it was from a Torstar paper. Former Transportation Minister Stephen Del Duca, quote-unquote, clearly influenced Metrolinks to approve a proposed Kirby GO station in his Vaughan riding, Ontario's Auditor General said. Metrolinx initially did not recommend Kirby and a proposed Lawrence East GO station in Toronto

be built as part of the former Liberal government's expansion of the GO public transit system, Auditor General Bonnie Lissick said. Metrolinx's business analysis originally discounted the Kirby station because it could increase car traffic, reduce the number of people taking public transit, and create more greenhouse gases. But Del Duca and the City of Toronto swayed Metrolinx to approve the stations in their communities, Lissick said. All right, Stephen, again, let's talk about this Go Transit situation.

Sure. So I've lived here in the GTA my entire life. I turned 47. Actually, I grew up in Etobicoke before we moved to Vaughan. What part of Etobicoke? So we lived on Wellsworth Drive, so just not too far away from West Mall and Rathburn in that area. Okay.

I'm just thinking, that's not too far from Cloverdale Mall. No, it's close to Cloverdale Mall. And in fact, as a kid, I used to play hockey at Long Branch Arena just around the corner. And for the Etobicoke Canucks. And for the Etobicoke Reps, both teams. And we also played at the Lakeshore Lions Arena. Which is now like the board center of excellence or whatever the heck they think. Well, it wasn't back then.

No, it wasn't. But Cloverdale, you know, they've got a huge development deal at that Cloverdale mall. I did not know that. Yeah, like it's going to be some kind of like a little community. Like you should see these pictures and stuff of what's going to happen at that mall. What will happen to my home hardware? Because that's where you get the discounted chocolate bars and other assorted treats. So, you know, I have lived in this region, the GTA, my entire life.

And I have watched through many, many years, many, many cycles, many different kinds of government, different partisan stripes. People talk a lot about building transit and almost no transit really getting built. And I, you know, I look at it, you know, there were actually four go stations that I pushed to be included over and above the 10 that Metrolinx wanted, including one here in Etobicoke that was going to be built, that old Mr. Christie site. Oh, Park Lawn. Park Lawn, right? Yeah, they need one there. Yeah, they do definitely need one. I mean, any person, any everyday person who's seen how many towers have gone up in that neighborhood can recognize that. So I approved or I accepted the 10 recommendations Metrolinx made. I then pushed for four additional stations,

including, like I said a second ago, Park Lawn, and including one in York Region, what was my old riding, but not the riding in which I ran again in 2018. The story you read a second ago didn't reference the fact that Metrolinx did a follow-up independent business case analysis of all of the stations, and it actually ended up ranking Kirby close to the top in that follow-up assessment when they used updated numbers based on current ridership projections at that time. But the bottom line is, ended up ranking Kirby close to the top in that follow-up assessment when they used updated numbers based on current ridership projections at that time. But the bottom line is, you know, I think that when you get elected to do a job, you have a responsibility to take the best advice of experts, but there's a democratic requirement that you step up and show leadership. And I think

of the people mostly prior to the pandemic who'd be stuck in their cars for hours because we don't have enough transportation or commuting options in this region. And I don't think they want to get stuck on progress. I think they want to get home to their loved ones more quickly. And that means we need more transit everywhere, including in Etobicoke, including in York region, in the city of Toronto and elsewhere. And that's what I stood up and fought for. And I don't, I don't shy away from that. What high school did you go to? So I went to Wellsworth Public School, the Nativity of Our Lord, a Catholic elementary school and then I went downtown to De La Salle. My older brother had already gone to Dell but my sister went to Michael Power St. Joe's. I went to Michael Power St. Joe's. What year? What year did

you graduate? 93. Okay so you are a year after me because I'm class of 92 from De La Salle. But a lot of my friends went to Power because of where I grew up. Guys like Anthony Martin, Steve Medici, Gino Pichelli. I shouldn't be mentioning their names on this podcast. No, you should. I feel like that's like you should not be afraid to be a real human. They would be a year ahead of you at Power. The most famous guy who comes up a lot who is a few years ahead of you at power so the most famous guy always who comes up a lot who is a few years ahead of me like i think several years ahead of me is uh brendan shanahan so he's the big

power grads yeah i can i have very fond memories of power destroying dell and football every single year we did okay in hockey which is what i played but we didn't do so well in football what position did you play i I was a right defenseman. Yeah. Leaps could use you, I think. You only got a year on me. I feel like I could play. I think you could.

I just don't have a lot of fond memories of my plus minus stance in minor Adam, but it's okay. Try my best. I got to track down your old hockey card. Please don't. Roy, so this is, I'll ask the question because, you know,

again, you're the first active politician, but I do this for every episode. So yesterday I spoke to Jay Semko. He's the primary singer, songwriter and bassist for the Northern Pikes.

Yeah. And so I always open it up to the listeners. What do you want me to ask? And then so Roy says, who owns the 407 and how do they get it? Now, so I'm just literally just asking you Roy's question here. You want to, because, you know, I did the pool thing.

Sure. That was the big one, the pool. It's almost like when you hear about, like, Hillary Clinton in the emails, people are like, what about the pool? Tell me, but no, I'm not suggesting it. I'm not suggesting that, but it's something that comes up all the time.

So the pool thing and the go thing, but do you want to tell Roy, what do you want to say to Roy about the 407? The 407 was built by the province of Ontario. It was owned by you and I and everyone else in this province prior to, from what I remember, 1998, when a former conservative government, then led by Mike Harris, decided to put it on the selling block, sold it for about $3 billion to an international Spanish-controlled, at the time, consortium, sold it for about $3 billion to an international Spanish-controlled at the time consortium, bought it for about $3 billion. I think today it would be worth somewhere north of $12 or $13 billion. It's also the most expensive toll road

in the world, not just in North America. And it is an ironclad 99-year lease that was signed by a former conservative premier that we are stuck with for still many years to come. There you go. Yeah. Your last name, Del Duca. This sounds very Irish to me. Yes, of course it is. I said the same joke to Gino Vanelli when he came over.

That's awesome. It's not Irish, but I do have Irish blood in me, for what it's worth. Okay, because you got the Scottish. You may have said your mom's Scottish. I'm guessing your dad, this is my guess, your dad's of Italian descent. That is correct. My dad was 20 when he came, and my mom from Italy, and my mom was 20 when she came from Glasgow.

They met here. So shout out to the Petrucci family. They own and operate Palma Pasta, which is like, I love the family. I mean, you know, Great Lakes, which I'm drinking right now, the Bullitt family owns that. It's a local, independent, fresh craft brewery. Palma Pasta.

I just want to shout them out. They're in Mississauga and Oakville. I always say, and you would know, I would guess, because of your dad's lineage, but best, most authentic Italian lasagna or pasta you're going to find from a store. Awesome. I'm going to try it. I'm going to check it out. You've got to try it out. I make homemade lasagna or pasta you're going to find from a store. Awesome. I'm going to try it. I'm going to check it out.

You got to try it out. PalmPasta.com. I make homemade lasagna and it's one of my things that I do a couple of times a year, but I'm not going to, on the air, I'm not going to say I'm going to go toe-to-toe with this. No, wait, I mean, I always say you can buy in a store. I feel I need to throw in, because the stuff you make at home, like what's going to top the homemade Italian lasagna?

It's like a two-day process. I make the sauce the day before. Oh, my God. I assemble the lasagna the day of or the day before it's being cooked. Yeah, it's quite a process. I want a slice. I need to figure out how to get a slice. I normally make it around Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

It's like three times a year. I feel like Thanksgiving's coming up. I think we'll find a way to make this. Honestly, I love... I guess I'm coming back on the show then. I would love some of your lasagna. That's my by-part. I don't care what party you're in.

If you make a good lasagna, I want a slice of it here. So I also want to thank some other great partners who have stepped up to fuel the real talk here. So stickeru.com. There's a Toronto Mike sticker on the pasta box. So it's an empty box, but the sticker is yours.

Like, I don't know where you're going to put it. I hope it goes on like some kind of like official, uh, uh, liberal party vehicle. I would love to see it there. Uh,

so it's Toronto Mike sticker. That's from sticker. You, you go to sticker you.com to get your decals and your stickers and such. I want to thank, uh, Austin Keitner from the Keitner group. If anyone out there has

any Toronto real estate questions or GTA real estate questions, you can text Toronto Mike to 59559 and talk to Austin. He knows his stuff. He's a great resource for if you're looking to buy and or sell in the next six months. Do that. Halloween's going to

look a little different this year. I'm guessing this is a municipal responsibility what the rules are for Halloween. But I can tell you there is a very safe drive-through event in Milton, Ontario. It's called Pumpkins After Dark. Go to pumpkinsafterdark.com. It's amazing. There's like kilometers of drive-through. They got thousands of like sculpted Halloween like jack-o'-lanterns and such that illuminate the night sky.

There's tunnels. It's really cool and it's completely contactless. Like they literally will scan your ticket from the car window. So go to Pumpkins After Dark and if you want to save some money,

use the promo code Toronto Mike. So Toronto Mike is the promo code. You can save some money and I want to say hello to Barb from CDN Technologies. If you have any computer or network issues or questions, they're your outsourced IT department. So call Barb today at 905-542-9759. And of course, GarbageDay.com. That's where you go to download the Garbage Day app or sign up for their free curbside collection notifications. It's fun. My Garbage Day is tomorrow. That's where you go to download the Garbage Day app or sign up for their free curbside collection notifications. It's fun. My garbage day is tomorrow. I get a little

notification. 7 p.m. tonight, I get a text to tell me, is it garbage? Is it recycling? Is it the yard waste? That's the one that throws me. I just look at my neighbors and see what they've done. That's the old school move, man. I like that. Go to GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike and you can join the club here. T.O. Resident, that's his handle on Twitter. He wants me to ask you, Stephen,

about diversity in Ontario politics. He says, can it be improved? We had a little discussion on Twitter yesterday. He feels the Liberal Party missed an opportunity to not have a leader who,

and all due respect, because a white guy. You're a white guy. I am. I'm a white guy too. There's nothing wrong with being a white guy. In his opinion, there was an opportunity to diversify at the top. What would you say to TO resident?

Listen, I think that TO resident's not wrong about the fact that we definitely need more representative diversity in Ontario politics and national politics and municipal politics. He's right. My good friends and colleagues, Michael Cotto and Mitzi Hunter-Rand for the leadership as two good examples of incredible people who put themselves forward. And we are all working closely together now, like we did when we served in caucus and cabinet together. And they're working really, really hard. I think that when you look at the way that we have updated what we call the rules of procedure for how we nominate candidates in the Ontario Liberal Party for the next election,

you'll see that we very explicitly are making, for the first time ever, we are making it a requirement that our local riding associations actually demonstrate to the central party that as part of their search, they look for candidates who are female, who are from communities that have been racialized or underrepresented historically, that they demonstrate that to the central party before we proceed with a nomination. And I will say since we started our nomination process back on July the 1st, we've seen hundreds of people who've expressed an interest in seeking nominations, and many of them are from communities that have been underrepresented, sadly, for far too long in provincial politics.

So I think we're moving in the right direction, but it's not enough, and we definitely have to do more. Now, T.L. Resident did add in parentheses at the end of his statement, he does add that Doug Ford's record on diversity is a total joke. This is his opinion, T.O. Resident. And I would say you're succeeding a woman who was openly gay. So your party has a pretty good track record, I'd say. Yeah, but there's always room for more. And we've seen what's happened across North America. Here in Ontario, I think it was unfortunate that Doug Ford sort of first denied, essentially, that there was systemic racism here in Ontario. He then kind of came around a day or two later when he realized that he'd made a mistake.

You know, I think there are some tangible things that we can do at a provincial level to support making sure whether we're talking about funding, once again, properly the anti-racism directorate, looking at how we deliver public education, the black youth action plan there's tons of work that can be done to help support and and make the outcomes more real not just a lot of really good talk which politicians are you know pretty expert at but actually delivering real outcomes uh what is your relationship like with uh kathleen win who i was uh i actually recently produced an episode of Ralph Ben-Murray's podcast where she spoke, sorry, he spoke with Kathleen Wynne. So I got to kind of be in the room and have a little bit of a one-on-one conversation with Kathleen, who eventually will end up on Toronto Mic'd, I promise you, Kathleen. What was your, what's your thoughts and what was your relationship like?

What is your relationship like with Kathleen Wynne? I have a great relationship with Kathleen. You know, she's still the MPP for Don Valley West. She represents her constituents extraordinarily well. Everybody knows the 2018 election result was tough. And the couple of years leading into the 2018 election, I think were particularly and unfairly hard on Kathleen, given how much we were able to advance a lot of really important things here

for Ontarians. And I think actually, when you look at what's taken place during the pandemic, there's a lot of stuff relating to frontline healthcare workers, frontline workers generally, the minimum wage, all of it, that I think people would look back and realize that she was in some respects a little bit ahead of her time. I've never, I've been around politics for now, since I was 15, more than 32 years. I've never seen anybody work harder for what she believes in than Kathleen Wynne. And so the fact that she still shows up every single day and represents her constituents, I think, is remarkable. And she is a good person with a great heart who is still working hard for the people she's honored to represent. I literally saw her all over the news this weekend because I guess there's a homeless

shelter in her riding and there's some, uh, there were some protests and some conversation around that and there she was, she was on the scene kind of talking to her constituents and, uh, and yeah, you're right. She's, in my opinion, she's, uh, definitely works hard to, uh, to serve her constituents. Absolutely. Now, uh, I'm going to read, I'm going to move on to something I think that I wish I could pull my wife into this conversation, get her out here. She's inside right now. But this is a big one because we have a four-year-old and a six-year-old. I have teenagers too, but one's going to university, one's in high school, one's going into grade one, one is starting JK. I think I got that right. Good.

That's my test right there. Now, the big concern... By the way, do you have children? I do. Our daughters are 12 and 9. 12 and 9. So going into grade 8 and grade 4 in three weeks from today. Yeah, okay. So let's talk as parents here. And I'm going to read a little tweet that came

across. Kind of summarizes it nicely uh quote unquote here i do not give a hoot watch your language come on i do not give a hoot about partisan politics right now i care about small class sizes physical distancing and proper ventilation for students and teachers without compromising on prep time please Please tell me, I want to know your thoughts on the return to school plan that we've been hearing from the Progressive Conservative Party, Doug Ford's party,

and then tell me what the Liberal Party would be doing differently. This is something, I think this is number one with a bullet right now in terms of any of us who have school-aged children. I sense the anxiety in the house right now. Like, please speak to this. So I think this is one of those ones where there's a lot of room for a guy like me to become very partisan. Because frankly, and I'll get into this in a quick sec, Doug Ford really has dropped the ball on this one. But because I'm a parent, and because I've now been on the road a bit through different parts of Ontario,

so both physically and through a screen, I've been talking to parents, teachers, support workers in the system. That anxiety, that concern that you've talked about is really, it's like it's palpable. You can feel it. My wife and I have been talking about this for a couple of weeks. Tonight at midnight is the deadline for us to let our school board know whether we're sending our daughters back or whether they're going to be at home. So when I get home later this afternoon, we're going to be filling out the survey. And I will tell you, we are sending our girls back to school come September the 8th, but we're not at all happy. Neither are our friends or most of our family members about the fact that we've been put in a really impossible situation. And you have to remember, like we're in a pretty good

spot as a family. You know, we have a lot going for us. My wife's business is run from home. I have flexibility in the way that we structure my day. We are not a family that's kind of on the margins or, you know, financially in a, in a tough, in tough shape. And so I, I can't imagine how tough it must be for literally hundreds of thousands of Ontario families who are being forced to choose between their children and their careers because the plan that's come from the government's been, it feels to me like it's treating all of us, parents, kids, teachers, everybody, like a bit of an afterthought.

So we put at the core or the center of our plan for a safe reopening of schools a pretty simple idea, which is cap class sizes at 15 province wide. We've been told since day one of the pandemic by Doug Ford and every public health expert, six feet apart, wash your hands vigorously. Physical distancing is critical. It's important if I'm at the store. It's important if I'm wherever I am, even here right now talking to you, six feet apart. And then we find out when they release their plan near the end of July, suddenly that doesn't matter as much anymore. Suddenly they're, you know, they're going to kind of cheap out and be really thrifty and frugal on how they're approaching this whole thing. So they're not going to guarantee small class sizes. And, you know, then they went through

a number of days of getting hammered because their plan was brutally weak. Then they came out and said a couple of days later, school boards, you can unlock reserves. We're giving you permission to unlock reserves, so it's on you. So I said to one of my friends, the only person in Ontario who seems to forget on public education that he's the premier of Ontario is Doug Ford because he said on the record, if it was, I'm quoting now, if it was up to me, there'd be no more than five kids in a class. But it is up to him.

You shouldn't be passing the buck and downloading the decision-making authority to school boards. You should work with school boards. But the onus falls to him. He's leading a majority government in the legislature. He's got the tools at his disposal. For some reason, he has just chosen

to let all of us down. Do you have any speculation what that reason is? I can't imagine a more, you know, important thing than, you know, education, especially during this pandemic. I mean, it seems like healthcare and education to me are the two big ones. They are. Like, that's not where you save a buck. And I think I saw a quote from him where, and pray it works out. Like, I'm not, I'm not.

Right. So imagine a world where because of the sacrifices of 15 million Ontarians, we've now, it looks like knock on wood. We've now kind of gotten close to flattening the curve. The numbers pretty much across Ontario, they fluctuate a bit, but they're not bad, right? No, they're not bad. Why would you want to risk it with the return to school? Why would you not want to take every single means at your disposal to say, we're going to keep the economy and the economic reopening going. So moms and dads have that peace of mind to go back to work. We're going to keep our kids and educators and support workers,

custodians, everybody in the system safe. And we're not going to kind of screw around with the success that we've had in terms of flattening the curve by risking additional outbreaks. You asked me what the motivation might be. I don't really know for sure. Mike, I've seen the premier, I've seen Doug Ford talk about this issue. He seems to be genuine in his concern, but his actions don't match that. And I think prior to the pandemic and public education, we saw a lot of fighting, right, between the government and the teachers federations and unions representing support staff. And, you know, I can't tell if there's a bit of a holdover from that fighting. Maybe there's a bit of an ax to grind on the part of the Premier and

some of the people in his cabinet. But as a parent, forget about me as a liberal leader, as a parent, I just find it unconscionable that they've left us to fend for ourselves. So you would cap, I think I heard you say, cap it at 15? Yeah, our plan called for capping class sizes at 15 province-wide. It called for hiring up enough teachers province-wide to make that a reality. It called for the creation of close to 14,000 what I call unconventional classrooms across Ontario. So community centers, libraries, arenas, which, by the way, Mayor Tory here in Toronto said, I think yesterday, that he's actually working with the Toronto District School Board to try and find those kinds of unconventional spaces they might be able to use.

Called for hiring more custodians. Here's an interesting fact. There are 5,000 public schools in Ontario, elementary and secondary. And Doug Ford's plan calls for hiring about 1,000 new custodians. But there are 5,000 schools. So how's that going to work? So my plan actually called for hiring two additional custodians per school because we know sanitization and cleanliness is also a critical part of fighting the COVID-19 virus. So anyway, so our plan was pretty ambitious. We put it out five days ahead of the government's. It was fully costed. And I think that's the kind of plan that parents and everyone else in the system could have confidence and faith in. And I've been saying for two, three weeks now, I hope Doug Ford steals it. I won't get mad if he steals it. I've urged him publicly, take my plan.

It's all yours. I've actually said to him in an open letter, I'll work with you on it. I have two former ministers of education in my caucus, two. We'll work with you to help deliver on this because it's that important to us. And instead, he steps to the microphone and he attacks teachers unions. That's not leadership. That's not leadership. That's not leadership. Anything else?

Because here's another thing. We have this debate all the time. I should be recording the debates in this household. But, okay, we have the chief medical officer for Ontario is Dr. David Williams. Now, my understanding is that's not a part, you know not a, you know, he doesn't work for a party. That's right. Right. So he, you know, he's got a,

he doesn't have to worry about politics or, you know, appeasing the progressive conservative leader, et cetera. My understanding is he's blessed this, he's blessed this back to school plan. Yeah. So, because to me, it doesn't quite smell, it doesn't quite smell, it doesn't quite pass the smell test. But then you're like, well, Dr. David Williams, he's blessed it. So what, like, where's

the disconnect there? I don't, look, I, yeah, you can't speak for David. And I have an immense amount of respect for Dr. David Williams and the rest of our public health officials we've seen across Ontario. But, you know, I would say a couple of things to keep in mind. One is here in Toronto, the Toronto public health officials have spoken up not so much about the totality or the whole government plan, but they've talked about the class size issue. They recognize it's a problem. We've seen the hospital for sick kids

that came out with a report prior to the government's announcement and has put out a statement since the government made their announcement because Doug Ford has publicly said he's relying very heavily on SickKids' report for his plan, but SickKids had to come out and say, yeah, but our plan did call for smaller class sizes. Yes, it did, yes. Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario, CHEO, really well regarded in that part of the province. They've said the same thing. So it seems to me that there is a very clear consensus that's emerged from both education experts

and healthcare experts that smaller class sizes should be the goal. I don't have a clue why Doug Ford is determined to be stubborn on this and put all of us at risk. It just makes no sense. Especially, like, I would like to reduce the anxiety in my household. This is my core concern right now. It's only fair, right? And we saw a study that came out today, or I saw a study that came out today,

that says somewhere between 35% and 40% of Ontario families are likely going to opt to keep their kids at home. Now, I don't know if that's a final number. And what a privilege that is, right? That's what bugs me is now we're becoming some kind of a two-tier classist province. And I'm sure I could. I work from home too, and my wife is lucky that she's able to work from home right now too i could i could keep my kids at home and i'm i'm very hoping i'm

very much hoping i can send my kids back to school right well so imagine so we're here in the gta where high access to high speed broadband is is not that hard to locate as long as you can afford it and have the devices but again that does speak to a lot of families that don't have necessarily the means to pay for the access or enough devices to cover off what their kids need. But you know, there are huge chunks of Ontario, huge chunks, where there's virtually no access to high speed broadband, or it's spotty, it's inconsistent. Right. But Doug Ford's plan is basically it's one size fits all, right? You live in a part of Ontario where you're basically on dial up still, and you're telling your kid who's in grade eight or grade whatever it is yeah get in front of that laptop and you're going

to get the same quality of education and by the way it's up to the school board I'm just going to pass the buck even though I am the premier of Ontario it just again it just it's completely shocking to me and it didn't have to be this way because don't forget the pandemic struck in March before March break right so if they had wanted to in that first week, recognizing how many challenges they had, if they had wanted to, knowing that at some point in the future, kids would go back to school. Might have been May, might have been June, might have been September. Why didn't they make it an all-hands-on-deck moment from day one? Right?

Well, that's my thoughts with the HVAC upgrades. And I'm saying, okay, we got a couple of weeks for these HVAC. And I'm thinking, well, you could have done that in march yeah in the public sector god bless it you can't procure by following the rules you can't procure anything in a couple of weeks there's paper and and maybe they're streamlining that right now i don't know right but it's completely unreasonable to expect that they're just going to drop a couple of fans in and say it's good to go right right okay now a couple more things here because i uh luckily i get you for a whole hour here and i have a couple more things

on my hit list here but one of them is that uh i was reading how opiate addiction took uh more more torontonians last month than covid19 took so what is the liberal party of ontario's uh stance with regards to safe injection sites and other such institutions? Yeah, it's a huge challenge. And it's, you know, it's not just in our urban centers. It happens in, I referenced parts of rural Ontario when I was talking about high-speed broadband. There are small-town rural portions of this province where it's a huge challenge. And I think, you know, I think that we had a number of investments that were part of what we were delivering in our last budget that we're going to help around safe injection sites and what's called harm reduction as a general sort of approach to dealing with this.

And very tough conversations that we need to have. But to me, there's no other way to deal with it. It is across Canada, across North America. It is having a direct, like a direct impact on life expectancy now. Like that's how scary this has become. We are seeing numbers around North American life expectancy being kind of fluctuating a little bit because of the opioid crisis. So we definitely have more to do on this, on the harm reduction side.

I expect in the coming weeks and months you'll hear more from us about some of the specifics, but I think we have to own up to the fact that it's a huge crisis and it needs more, more support, more resources, more recognition that it's real. I'm going to play a clip,

uh, from a Toronto mic'd episode recorded earlier this summer. And this episode was with, uh, Dr. Diane Sacks. Uh, you know,

Dr. Diane Sacks, she was the environmental Commissioner of Ontario. And I'm going to play, first I'm going to play a one-minute clip of her talking about why she's no longer Environmental Commissioner. So we'll start with that

and then I want to ask you about this. Etiquette of these things was I would deliver my report. The government of the day always got a chance to see the report ahead of time and they would provide a letter with their responses, which we would publish together with our report. Under the Wynne government, the responses were always some version of,

we thank the commissioner for her report, and then mostly some combination of, we did it already, or we don't need to do it, or we'll think about it. Right. Right? That's the normal response. But the Ford government response was, we don't take kindly to that criticism. And shortly after that, they introduced special legislation into the legislature to break my contract, which had been unanimously approved by all members of the legislature,

because my position was protected from interference. So they had to bring in special legislation to break my contract and abolish my office. Okay, abolish the office at the end. I think I cut it off a little bit prematurely there. But so Dr. Diane Sachs, recently a guest on Toronto Mic'd, says basically Doug Ford eliminated the position of environmental commissioner. So my question for you, Stephen Del Duca,

is if elected, will you reinstate this important position during this climate emergency? Absolutely. Yeah, I don't even have to think twice about that. It's still shocking to me that one of the first things they did, in addition to abolishing the office, they restructured a number of other independent officers of the legislature, including, for example, the commissioner responsible for French languages and the environmental change action plan that we had announced and started to deliver on. And here we are now more than two years after Doug Ford first got elected. And I could almost accept that, you know, he didn't like the liberal plan for climate change. So he wanted to get rid

of it. He won the election. So he wanted to deliver his own plan for climate change. Now, more than two years into his mandate, which only has now about 20 months left in it, and he hasn't replaced what he got rid of with anything. I don't mean he's replaced it with something weaker. I mean, he's replaced it with nothing. What he's done instead is actually spend a lot of your money and my money fighting the federal government in court, paying for television and radio ads, paying for stickers at the gas pumps. And they weren't from stickererU. Well, because they didn't stick, ironically. And, you know, he did all of that. He spent all of that money, millions of dollars, I'm sure, basically trying to argue that we shouldn't put a price on carbon pollution in

the face of, as you put it, the climate emergency. And so I think that speaks volumes about what Doug Ford's priorities are for Ontario. I'm guessing he doesn't believe climate change is real, although I was in Bracebridge like he was, and I saw the floods last year, and I saw how kind of epic they were. And this has happened in the Ottawa area, Windsor, and elsewhere. There are huge parts of Ontario where it's getting tougher to get home insurance because flooding has now replaced fire, is the number one claim that we see. And that's because of climate change. So again, you'd think that you'd want to be working together on this with the other provinces and the federal government, but not Doug Ford.

So during this COVID-19 pandemic, we have this imminent threat, which seems to be hogging, rightly so, hogging a lot of the press and a lot of the concern, and of course we have to protect ourselves from COVID-19. But I decided, since I was pulling that clip on Diane Sacks talking about her position being eliminated, I would just, this is I was pulling that clip on Diane Sacks talking about her position being eliminated,

I would just, this is a 28-second clip on Diane Sacks because I am of the opinion, like many people, that the climate emergency, the fact that we're not all, like, all laser-focused

on this particular threat is, to me, something our great-grandchildren, if, well, let me play the Diane Sacks and then another conversation about it. We are on track. is to me something our great-grandchildren... Well, let me play the Diane Sachs and then another conversation about it. We are on track for unimaginable destruction. The Philip Alston, the special rapporteur

to the United Nations Human Rights Council, put it as clearly as anyone I've heard. In the lifetime of today's children, by the end of this century, the best case now is widespread death and suffering. And the worst case is humanity on the brink of extinction.

I get chills. Yeah, as you should. And this isn't a movie, okay? This is real talk. So, and again, if you could surmise it, I realize the economy of time here, there's a lot here, but how seriously is your party

taking this climate emergency? We're taking it very seriously. And I think what we need to do, I think the magic is to unlock the fight against the climate emergency in a way that's relatable for people so that they can understand how vulnerable we are as a species, human beings, and so that they're not as easily kind of wooed or swayed by demagogic platitudes that come from mostly

conservative politicians that somehow want them to believe it's either not real or there's an easy way to deal with it that's not going to cost anything and not be a challenge and not be tough. But my, you've heard me say earlier, my daughters are 12 and nine and I think they, and those who come after them will look back at you, Mike and me and Doug and everyone else. And why didn't you do anything?

This is what they're going to say. They will judge us and it will not be a kind judgment. You're at, no, that's, that's my thought too. I got four children and I'm already, I already can hear my grandchildren grandchildren looking at me and say,

why didn't you do anything? When you knew. When you had a chance. When the science was there. You knew, and you did nothing. That's right. And to me, this is the most agrarious sin. This is unacceptable,

and we need to be focused on the climate emergency. Absolutely. Michael Lang is a, just to change the channel before we wrap up here, Michael Lang is a good long-time FOTM. By the way, you're now an FOTM, Friend of Toronto Mike. Awesome. So you can wear that badge with great pride. I will. Curious if the Liberals would entertain a coalition with the NDP or maybe even Green Party, similar to 1985, if the Tories win a minority next time. So let's say

there's an election and then the PC party wins minority government. Would you consider, because Michael Lang sees some similarities between the Bill Davis era progressive conservative policies and the current liberal

policies. I don't think Michael's wrong about that last part. I think the issue for me is less about political parties and whether you would align yourself with one party or another. I don't think it's that. To me, it's the issue comes back to the policies and the ideas themselves. And I don't know the leader of the Green Party very, very well, although obviously I have respect for any parliamentarian, but I will say I have seen far too many times in my time around provincial politics that Andrea Horvath and the NDP often take positions

that are, it's not, look, I get the progressive part of it and I support that for sure, but I've seen far too many times that they'll put their own self-interest ahead of actually getting the outcome, more interested in the fight than the outcome. And I think we have too much that we need to accomplish in order to surrender to that.

So I will say my focus right now is making sure the Ontario Liberal Party is rebuilt and ready for 2022, putting forward very progressive ideas that will actually show people like Mike, we have the right plan for Ontario's future. It's positive in nature. I think that's going to be a good contrast

to drive against Doug Ford and what he's done so far. And then we'll let the people of Ontario judge, as it should be. And my final question here, before I play you out with some lowest of the low,

as every episode closes, is this. Firstly, thank you for coming on. I can, you know, facing the questions here. I hope you'll come back. And again, Doug and Andrea and Mike, if you're out there, I would happily have you in the backyard as well. But why, like, why do you want this job? Because I'm going to imagine there's people who are,

I can't imagine, have you ever received a death threat because you're the leader of the Liberal Party? No, nothing of that nature. No death threats, but lots of other vitriol, lots of other I can't imagine if you ever received a death threat because you're the leader of the Liberal Party. No, nothing of that nature. No death threats, but lots of other vitriol, lots of other ugliness. No death threats yet. Well, I got vitriol for having you in my backyard. There you go. Okay. I can't imagine what it's like to be you.

Like, why do you want this job? Why do you want to be Premier of Ontario? I look at my daughters and I just, I grew up here. I grew up here in the GTA. I grew up here in Ontario and my parents came from different parts of the world. And there was this sort of grand bargain that they were party to when they arrived here. Work hard, play by the rules, and you will not only have good opportunity, you're going to be in a position to pass that kind of opportunity that's real and authentic and genuine to the next generation, in that case me and my siblings.

And I look at what my daughters will now inherit because of a lot of decisions that are getting made badly, I would argue, right now at Queen Park. And I am gravely concerned that the kind of opportunity they are going to be left with will fall far short of what me and my siblings were given. And that's not good enough to me. So whether it's climate change, or it's the future of work, or it's transportation, or it's education, there's so much in there. I just want my daughters to be able to have the same kind of chance that I had growing up here in this incredible province. And I fear if Doug Ford gets a second majority government and a blank check to keep unraveling what we believe in, then they won't get that chance.

And that's not good enough for me. And what are the Leafs do to finally win a playoff series? Okay. It's been 2004. Pat Quinn was the freaking coach of this team. Okay. It's tough. It's tough for all the people across.

Ed Belfort was in that. I remember it. I can remember that. That's a long time ago. Ed Belfort was in that. I remember it. I can remember those years. That's a long time ago. Ed Belfort was in that. What is he now, 80 years old? I don't know. I can't pull up Wikipedia that quickly. I don't know for sure. It's tough.

No, he's not that old. But still, 2004 is the last time the Maple Leafs won a playoff round. You played right defense. What do you do? We've got the skill up front. What do we do? I don't know. I know you don't have these answers. I don't have these answers. I don't have these answers.

You're a mere immortal. I can barely navigate politics. I'm not going to be able to navigate the NHL and certainly not the Leafs. And really, that's the job of a different power grad than I. I know you're a De La Salle man yourself, but that's Brendan Shanahan's problem, not ours. Him and Kyle Dubas can figure that out. All right, Stephen, how did it go? This is awesome.

Here you are in a backyard of some... Who is this guy? He's not power and politics on CBC here. Who is this guy? It was okay? It was fantastic. And I'm happy that the rain stayed away from most of it. For most of it.

I gotta say, I was distracted the whole time because there were threats of... This board alone is $900, okay? Do you know what macbook pros cost i saw the fear in your eyes when the clouds emerged i'm impressed i actually managed to carry a conversation well definitely afraid of my livelihood here but uh good on you for doing this i think it'd be easier not to do this i loved it it's great thanks for coming on and that brings us to the end of our 708th show you can follow me on twitter i'm at toronto mike steven is by the way steven del duca and steven unlike my brother steven is with

a v he didn't get the ph i'm with a v right my brother's got the ph for victory. Okay, well, my brother, he gets PH for phony. I don't know. Steven Del Duca on Twitter. Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Steven's going to give it a shot and tell us what he thinks. Sticker U is at Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group.

CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Pumpkins After Dark are at Pumpkins Dark and Garbage Day are at GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike. Steve, remember, you're going to go home and sign up for Garbage Day at GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike I am. There, I broke my rule everybody. Deal with it See you all

next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.