Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Terry Koshan: Toronto Mike'd #463

Episode Date: May 13, 2019

Mike chats with the Toronto Sun's Terry Koshan about his years covering sports for the Sun, Kawhi's shot, and the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Welcome to episode 463 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Property StickerU.com and our newest sponsor Capadia LLP CPAs. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me is Toronto Sun sports reporter

Terry Koshan. A thumbs up for the pronunciation of your last name. It doesn't always come out that way. Koshan, but your tip before we went live here, well, the Periscope people heard it, but Ko as in C-O and then Shan like Shanahan.

That's a great tip for me. I need those like helpers. I should let more people know. Right. Because I tried to make it a French last name, but it's Ukrainian. Ukrainian, yes. Generations. It is not Kochan.

That's somebody else. Well, that's, you know, but there is, I think there's someone else in our business in radio that has that last name. So a few people who know that person assume that mine's the same pronunciation. Never. Not in close to the same spelling as far as I'm sorry i don't know never assume never assume and i'm i'm notorious for mispronouncing words that normally people normally get right like i i have trouble with brewery okay brewery yeah you're all right and then and um jewelry okay these uh they trip me up and then even like words like okay so there's a singular okay there's multiple females they are woman right right what's one female called

woman see say that again why did it sound too much like women right okay so i think i do what you do but apparently woman i don't even know. I'm in my own head here. The more you think about it, the worse it gets. Yes, I think less. It works. But Koshan is here. Terry Koshan is here. Man, how's it going?

Good. What's going on with my spring? I don't know. You know what's funny? This time of year, usually I was seeing my wife the other day. We're up around 20. We're out in the backyard. We're doing things.

We're, you know, relaxing that way. And that just hasn't happened yet. No. We don't even have our lawn furniture out yet. It's all still packed away in the shed in the backyard. Yeah. Well, my wife won't go outside in the backyard until we get to 20 degrees. So we're not.

Usually we're there at this point. Yeah. We are. Well, the average right now is apparently like 18 degrees is the average. We're on the low side of that heaven for a while. I'm just glad it hasn't started snowing yet. Give it time. That's coming.

That's coming. All right. So we're going to talk about your career. And like right now you're the hockey guy at the Sun, right? Well, one of them, yeah. Lance Hermey and I cover the Leafs together. And, of course, we have Steve Simmons, as you know. Who's that? No, Steve Simmons, friend of of the show even his son was on the show that's how friendly i am with the simmons family steve's a great guy uh what's your uh

interest uh in basketball you know what it's not a lot uh to be quite honest with you uh saying to a friend of mine phil schrader, who's a huge Toronto sports fan, all the teams, Jay's probably the top of his list, Raptors, Leafs, that, you know, until this year, I hadn't, it's been a while since I've watched a game in full, but I have watched a few Raptors games start to finish this year and last night was tuned in like everybody

else. And when Kawhi's shot dropped, I really couldn't believe it. Just given, Just being around the sporting community in Toronto and all the suffering that has happened that the fan bases have had for that shot to drop like it did, it's still a little bit unbelievable. Well, even, okay, so I'm glad you watched yesterday

and that you have at least some level of interest. Otherwise, this part would really bore you. I'm like, please, please have Terry say he likes basketball at least a little bit before i proceed here by the way ryan wallstat uh is your basketball guy and he's been on this show too i don't know if you caught that episode i haven't listened i haven't listened to the waz but i i should and i will only if you like 90s hip-hop oh yeah what kind of music do you like me uh pretty much uh you know a wide range i suppose Me? Pretty much a wide range, I suppose.

I thought I had a wide range until my son was born and took interest in music. He'll be 18 this summer, and he kind of blows me out of the water. He's really into vinyl and that sort of thing, so we spend a lot of time at record shops downtown. I suppose the seminal album for me would be Appetite for Destruction.

I almost wish I had it. Normally, I've reconfigured this studio so many times, but normally I have, and I bought it in 88. I bought it at a head shop downtown. Yeah, I believe it. The Appetite for Destruction flag or pennant. I had one in my bedroom ceiling, I believe. If you turn your head, I don't know if you see.

Can you see it back there? Anyway. This one had all five members, and I had it directly above my bed of all places. you turn your head i don't know if you see it's can you see it back there anyway uh this is this one at all five members and uh i had it directly above my bed of all places oh were they like skeletons no it was the actual photos of them all um and then probably uh you know in that era too master of puppets would be my other album that really kind of set me on a course in high school. And, you know, I've loved Metallica ever since. And, you know, now it's... One thing I find interesting is this whole rock and roll is dead.

I've never quite understood that. I understand that music interests go separate ways and that sorts of thing with youngsters of the day and that. But I don't find that. There you go. That's all you need to know. I think that when they say that rock and roll is dead, they're talking about, like, the Billboard find that. There you go. That's all you need to know. I think that when they say that rock and roll is dead, they're talking about

the Billboard Top 40. I suppose. Actually, later in the show, I'm going to play a song that was number one 30 years ago this week on the Billboard Hot 100, they call it. When it comes to Top 40, rock is pretty much dead right now.

Only because I have a 14-year-old daughter, so I hear a lot of it, and there's no rock in it. In terms of rock me dead that's ridiculous like rock and roll bands are selling out big arenas all over the place well you know you had we had that uh it's really interesting the early 90s to me what happened in music then because you know guns and roses released user illusion one and two nirvana nevermind and it was uh i wasn't one of these people that left one for the other but i was i really became a huge grunge fan and i remember uh i still remember where i was the day that covain died or i learned of it undergrad at guelph my brother was two years behind me and he called me we had this little blue plastic phone

my wife went in her basement apartment. And just one of those things you always remember for people of our age group, you know? I'm starting to think we're like pretty close in age now because I met U of T when Kurt dies 25 years ago. And I was like you.

I was a big Guns N' Roses guy. But I was into, I was even, like I was big in like, I like Dr. Feelgood and like a lot of Motley Crue. Dr. Feelgood was a great album. Yeah, like there's a lot of rock

I was listening to, Def Leppard, whatever. And then Grunge hit. And I didn't have one or the other. I mean, a lot of the hair metal went away, but I still loved my Appetite for Destruction double disc. But I just moved over and listened to a lot of Soundgarden and Pearl Jam and Nirvana.

I didn't see... I have a few regrets musically. One is I never did see Nirvana. I've made up for it by seeing Foo Fighters about a dozen times now but uh nor have i seen pearl jam which doesn't make any sense to me uh but in 20 in 2012 when sound garden reunited my wife when i saw them at sound academy and it was the only time i saw them live and that was uh i was really happy to stroke that one off the bucket list if you will yeah Yeah, I mean I've seen Pearl Jam I think 13 times live because they're

tremendous live. I know. There's really no excuse for it. But all this is to say if you don't like 90s hip hop and it sounds like maybe you don't, you might want to skip the Waz episode. It's, oh no you shouldn't skip the Waz episode but it's a great episode. Well having said that, I love

the Beastie Boys. I think License to the Old came out when I was in grade 9, and that was a record we all listened to and knew every word of, and I know that years later they would go on to more or less disown that record. Only because of the politically incorrect frat boy, girls, girls, girls. Which there was,

yeah, but it's something I'd still pick up and listen to today and everything they did after. Did you like the follow-up, Paul's Boutique? I did so. Okay, so I think that's your gateway to hip-hop, really. Paul's Boutique is such a heavily sampled hip-hop album that if you can get into Paul's Boutique, then you get into...

Oh, you know what? I'm pointing to the shirt I took down. I had a Public Enemy shirt up there, and I just took it down, but I'm pointing to nothing. But Public Enemy, and then that's kind of your gateway to the W Enemy shirt up there, and I just took it down. I'm pointing to nothing. But Public Enemy, and then that's kind of your gateway to the Waz stuff. Anyway, listen to the Waz episode, and you might appreciate some 90s hip-hop a little more.

He does a good job of, like, taking us deep. I'm sure he would. Man, I'm into the Guns N' Roses here. Hold on here. Because I want to talk Raptors before we get into you, Terry. It's a good opening for it. It's great. You've got me down In the Toronto Man, okay.

So what I'm going to do to you is I'm going to play some clips of the shot. We'll just call it the shot. I don't know, has the Toronto Sun decided on the nomenclature here? I think it is the shot. The shot. How could it not be?

I know. And then after we play these clips and we talk a little bit about yesterday's game, I'm going to really lean on you to get some perspective on like where this ranks in terms of Toronto sports moments.

Okay. Because I have my own thoughts on this. And I had, Hebsey and I had this chat this morning, actually, Mark Hebsey, and we had, but I want to hear from you as well.

So what I'm going to start with is the kind of the saddest call, I would say, which is the Philadelphia radio call. I've heard this one yet. I can just imagine. So the 76ers broadcast, what did it sound like? And by the way, thank you very much. I should say right off the top,

there's a guy named James NTO on Twitter. And he put these together and put them on a SoundCloud and I just stole them from the guys. So James NTO, I'm totally ripping you off here, but I don't think he has a podcast. So I had to bring it to a new audience here,

but follow James NTO on Twitter. But this is the Philadelphia radio call of the shot. Kyle and Siakam screen for Leonard. Leonard has it out top. Leonard against Ben Simmons two seconds ago. Kawhi Leonard hangs. Fire shot up.

It rims and it rims. And it went in. Toronto wins 92-90. Are you kidding me? Unreal. The Sixers season is over. There you go. It was as hyped as he was going to get there.

Subdued. Tiny little, you could, a tinge of disappointment that he doesn't get to go to Milwaukee. He can still go to Milwaukee, but, you know, he can't call the game. Now, this is the one I heard because I was watching it on, who had it last night, Sportsnet. So, of course, it's always Matty Devlin here.

Let's hear the call I heard. Kawhi up top. Looks at the clock. Turns the corner for the win. You got it! Kawhi Leonard! What a game winner! Hanging in the air.

The ball suspended in air. All right, I want to pause right there. Okay, so that suspension, this is what makes this moment, in my opinion, kind of unique. I can't find an exact comparable, but the way that the shot rims, it bounces four times.

There's actually literally, I don't know what it was. I haven't taken a stopwatch, but like five seconds where time sort of stops. Yeah. Which is. Well, there's enough time for Kawhi Leonard to take the shot and then go into that

crouch and stay there for what you're saying might seem like forever. And then it drops. And the thing for me with that shot was bounce one, bounce two. and at that nanosecond doesn't look good no actually i'm standing two feet from the tv and it goes that second bounce i'm with you i've already mapped it out i suppose connect the dots and i have it rimming out and i'm i've got us in overtime same same same with me and i i was alone i was watching people in the house for doing other things my wife with the kids, but I just yelled, wow. Like, I just couldn't believe what we'd seen.

Not only the shot, never mind the shot, what it represents to every person in the Raptors fan base, 18 years, all this sort of thing. But for that agony, if you will, to come to an end on a play like that is beyond remarkable. And now, obviously, if he misses that shot,

we go to overtime and he knows what happens. So when Vince puts up the shot in 2001, we're down by a point. So when Vince rims out, we lose. It's just interesting that we had that kind of safety net. You always have in the back of your head, if we don't score in this four seconds, we're not done yet.

Like it's sort of a nice little safe net. But so that's the call we heard. I want to play the Raptor radio call. So this is Paul Jones. Raptors, here we go. They get it to Leonard. Drives right down to the baseline. Fall away for the win.

Got it! It hit four rims and went down. Kawhi Leonard's shot went up in the air. It hit the rim. It bounced on the rim before going through the bucket.

Toronto wins 92-90. So good on Paul for counting the number of rims in real time. Right, because in real, you kind of forget it was four. And then when you're just watching it live, I think we all thought it was three or a lot of it's dead. And then you go back and see it again, and it was that last little one that did it.

So he nailed that. That's good there. But that was the radio call. So that was on TSN. And I just want to play the TNT. So this is the call most of America saw. The TNT call. It's off the letter. Defended by Simmons.

Is this the dagger? No! Game. Series. Toronto has won. So there's the, is this the dagger? And then you have that like, it's amazing because you can hear a crowd noise and you can hear everything going on,

but it's like a pause for like five seconds or whatever. Man, I don't know, you're not a big Raptors guy, but how many times have you seen the replay now? Oh, probably, I probably watched a dozen times a dozen times and that's a for a non-raps guy and I mean I've seen it now like I've seen it set to this Titanic I've seen it set to like some public enemy music I've seen it set to there's a Kanye song uh with like just a piano stroke and then I've heard it to that. I've seen it in slow motion.

I've seen different camera angles. I told Hebsey it's like the Zapruder film, breaking this thing down. But I'll finish this up quickly because I want to play, that was a TNT call. I want to play a South Korean call and then a Brazil call. I did hear these.

Okay, so this is the, actually I'll do the Brazil one first, and then I'll close with South Korea. So this is Brazil. And what are they? Brazil speaks Portuguese, right? Ok, então esse é o... Na verdade, eu vou fazer o Brasil primeiro, e depois eu vou fechar com a Coreia do Sul. Então esse é o Brasil. E o que eles... O Brasil fala português, certo? Essa é a língua deles. Então vamos ouvir isso. There you go.

And let's just close out with South Korea. Let's go, Leonard. 가솔, 레노드에게 시간떨어집니다. 3초, 2초, 1초. 레노드! 들어! 들어! 와! 카발레노! 와! 믿을 수가 없습니다.

들어갔어요! 들어갑니다! 와! 시리즈로 1원 샷으로 끝냅니다. 카발레노! Alright, Terry. Give me some perspective here, okay? Although we're similar age, so you won't be able to bring me way back, but you know enough history in this city sports. Where does this rank? Like, I don't want to put you on the spot,

but you probably been thinking about it today. Like, in terms of Toronto sports moments, rundown, start spitballing with me. What are the big ones? In our lifetimes, Mike, Joe Carter has his spot to himself. Number one. Like there's no, Joe Carter's off doing his own thing

with what he did in the World Series. Now, as far as this goes, the comparables I think for us would be with what he did in the World Series. Now, as far as this goes, the comparables, I think, for us would be Barshevsky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Against the Wings. Yeah. Probably not to that extent

because it didn't win a series with Gilmore's wraparound against the Blues. Double overtime. Same year. Game one. Yeah, the next two nights later, whatever it was. That's right, two nights later.

May 1st to 3rd, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. And really, you know, I wouldn't put anything the Leafs did in the early 2000s, late 90s, early 2000s under Pat Quinn with this. I just think that for the franchise and what happened with Carter in 01, how it hasn't been able to get back to this sort of level. You know, not that none of their, their

questions regarding the, uh, the acquisition of Kawhi Leonard, but you don't know what's going to happen with him coming to this team and we don't know what the future is. And one thing I found interesting today is to see a lot of, you know, a lot of the angle that perhaps, okay, how can Kawhi leave now eventually?

Still a lot of basketball left to be played. But I. We're halfway there. Yeah, I, I, exactly. So I, I think that, you know, okay, how can Kawhi leave now eventually? Still a lot of basketball left to be played. But I... We're halfway there. Yeah, exactly. So I think that, you know, for that Raptors fan base, I don't imagine there's a bigger moment for the people who have been there since day one in the mid-90s.

But as far as the past 25, 30 years go, it's right up there behind Carter. But again, with some of those Leaf moments, I think... What about... ...the early runs? What about a couple of of those leaf moments, I think the early runs. What about a couple of recent Jays moments? I'm thinking of Edwin.

The Jays, yeah. Sorry, I don't want to, I'm going back a few decades here, but the bat flip. The bat flip, yeah. But, and the incarnation was a three run. So the incarnation though, that was the wild card walk off.

Right. So that hit ends the wild card and they go off to the ALCS. Right. The Joey Batts was a seventh inning 3-1 run blast. So you still had to play, you know, a couple more innings. But it was a crazy seventh and that was game five

of a best of five in the ALDS and that put us into the ALCS. So they're comparable to this. I feel this one edges them out. Yeah, I do too because now you're down to the final four and the conference final and all this sort of thing.

Oh, but both those go to the final four too. That's true, but no, but I just think that for me, just given what this fan base has been through, I'd keep coming back to that. Right. And yeah, you know what, the Vince Carter replay from 01 will now never have to be played only as a backdrop to what happened last night. Not, this is still what drives us and that sort of thing.

Totally right. Except we have been, this is not our first time in the conference final because a couple of years, we did play. So we have. Yeah. I think about that. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Right. Right. It wasn't last year. Yeah. It was 2016 or 2017. One of those two. Right. We're in the final four

and we lose to LeBron in six games, as I recall. So that Vince, and by the way, that replay, Vince wasn't even close when every time I see that replay. Yeah, I know.

You got to remember it differently, don't you? And then they played it all night last night. Because you think it rimmed out and you think it might be more like Kawhi's except bouncing the other way. Right. But no, no,

that was just, wasn't even close. But man, and that was 0-1. And yeah, it's just nice to, I think, I think, and I think you're totally right, but I think it's because Kawhi comes, we do the big gamble, right?

Masai gives up your best player, DeRozan, and to bring in Kawhi, knowing he only has control of him for one year. Right. And then we'll see what Kawhi wants to do. He holds those cards nice and close to his chest. Does he ever? I know.

And some people like Hebsey. Hebsey's like, like you just said, for sure he's staying now. I'm like, did you talk to Kawhi Leonard? Did he tell you this? Because I know one thing. He might stay or he might go. And that's all I know. That's right.

There is no way to know. And this guy watching from afar and reading from afar and, you know, not being close to the team and everything, um, quite, quite the professional athlete. I don't, I don't recall covering somebody with the Leafs who is this, uh, unguarded is not the word. Reserved?

Reserved, I suppose. Not even reserved, but just where you really don't have the, we know what the background is, the tragedy of his father and this sort of thing, but the insight. And you might get that from some other people. Curtis Joseph had his background. And I know he talked

to Mike Allmar at the Post years and years and years ago about it, but Kawhi Leonard just seems to be this really private guy, and we don't see that often, overly often often with Toronto athletes. You're totally right. In fact, it took like a video with Serge Ibaka to even show like another perspective on him. Well, Mike, last night, his reaction to hitting

the shot becomes a bigger story because we just don't see that out of him. There was, when the Leafs played Minnesota in December, I think Mike Babcock had been at the previous Raptors game. So a night or two before when the Leafs played in Minnesota in December, I think Mike Babcock had been at the previous Raptors game. So a night or two before, and the Leafs had a day off. So we didn't talk to Mike until, uh, we were in

Minnesota and he had sat courtside that night. And one thing he said to us was, he was, and for Babcock to say this about another athlete, just blown away by Leonard and the, the, the reservation of the player in any situation in that game. The regular season game and everything, but Babcock picked up on that right away with Kawhi Leonard. I think that's, as Raptors fans well know,

it's part of what's endeared him to this fan base this season. And it's part of what made that shot so key. Because you're thinking, okay, we had the one-year window. We all felt, I think we all felt that if we lose in the second round, Kawhi's off to California next. You know, it just felt like we really did need to win for Kawhi to stick around.

This window would close. And, you know, to be so close, and this was a series I think we all thought we'd not win easily, but, you know, a lot of the predictions were Raptors in five or Raptors in six. I mean, we should beat the 76ers. And to have it come down to the final shot and to have that, you know, just the fact that we did it, like now we're in the conference final.

I think it was a huge weight off a lot of our shoulders. Like at least we, at least we've gone as far as we've gone before. And it was amazing. So I'm sorry for all the Raptors talk up front, but moments like that don't happen too often in this city. No, they don't. And I'm still of the belief that they will happen for the Maple Leafs

eventually. It didn't again this year, of course, the Bruins, but I think that they're, you know, obviously this organization has turned a corner as well. Man, I would, yeah, we'll get to that because I want to talk about my Leafs too, man, but softening the blow with the Leafs

bowing out to the Bruins again as this Raptor team, so I need them around. So Terry, let me give you some gifts here. Now, there is a vegetarian lasagna for you from Palma Pasta. And tell us, why is it vegetarian? I mentioned my son earlier, about a year ago now, he more or less woke up one day and became vegetarian. And this was a kid who had put away the biggest steak

or a double burger like no one's business, and that was that. How old was he when he made this decision? He was 16. Okay. Yeah. And yeah, so it's been interesting for the past year because, you know, I barbecue as much as the next guy,

if not more. But even today when I was leaving the home to come here, he had made some tofu rice dish, some, this amazing sauce. I'm not even sure what it was, a chicken, or sorry, not chicken, but a peanut sauce. Yeah. I had a quick bite before I came,

but it's taken us to other places that we didn't know really existed. Other aisles of the grocery store that we never went down. Right. But it's been great. So vegetarian lasagna. Vegetarian lasagna, courtesy of Palma Pasta.

I'm looking forward to it. Everyone, yeah, you'll enjoy that. It's frozen now, so you've got to thaw it and then you cook it up like maybe 45 minutes at 375. You'll be tweeting at me that it's the best lasagna you ever had because that's what's been happening. And Ted Wallachian says that they have the best sauce in the GTA and when you get the sauce right, you know you have the best sauce in the GTA.

And when you get the sauce right, you know you can trust the rest of the food. Palmapasta, of course, palmapasta.com to find out their locations or to order for your next event. They cater events. They catered my wedding. They're in Mississauga and Oakville. And you can find them on Skip the Dishes as well. But go to palmapasta.com.

I highly recommend the new space they have called Palma's Kitchen. That's what the box says, Palma's Kitchen. That's at like Burnham Thorpe and Mavis area. Seminic Court, I think it's called. But it's like 10,000 square feet. You got a retail store in there. You got the hot plates. You can get your pizza, your cappuccino. It's just incredible. So, you know, for lunch or just to take out,

go to palmapost.com. This is a six pack of Great Lakes beer. That's for you as well. Sounds good. I would imagine that most of those I've sampled previously, but I will happily do it again. What part of, like, where are you coming from in the GTA here? Whereabouts do you live? I'm in Georgetown. Okay, I was thinking, that's far away, right? Is that near, Tommy, is that near Milton? It's north. It's the Winston Churchill off-ramp north.

I don't go as far as Trafalgar. Gotcha, gotcha. It's not that far away, though. Everyone says that. I don't know why it feels far. It's not that far, because it's not far from, like, Brampton, right? No, Brampton's the next town over, more or less. And, you know don't know why it feels far. It's not that far. Cause it's not far from like Brampton, right? Like Brampton. No, Brampton's the next town over more or

less. And you know, I, I look at it this way. How long it's been on a good day, I can make it to the Scotia rink arena in 45 minutes. All right. So. Okay. Not that those are common.

Uh, cause a lot of you sun guys I noticed are in Etobicoke. That's why I asked. Like, uh, the, uh, buffery. I was originally, but I'm not now. So my old, actually we're really in my old neighborhood here. Oh yeah? Yeah.

New Toronto or are you? Long Branch. Long Branch. Five years, first five years of the sun, I lived in Long Branch. Oh, cool.

Yeah. Very cool. So welcome, welcome back. So these guys are just near rural York and Queensway. Yeah. Great local craft brewery. They're going to host my event.

So Terry, I know you're coming from Georgetown, so this will be very inconvenient for you. So you're excused if you can't make it. But on June 27th, TMLX3, that is the Toronto Mic to Listener Experience, it takes place 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. Everyone right now listening is invited.

Great Lakes will buy you your first beer, so that's on the house. There's some great music. The Royal Pains are going to open. And this is invited. Great Lakes will buy you your first beer, so that's on the house. There's some great music. The Royal Pains are going to open, and this is awesome. The Lowest of the Low are going to close the show on June 27th. And again, no cover charge or anything.

Just come. We'll make room for you, and we'll have a great time. So June 27th, 6 to 9, TMLX 3. Again, Terry, I'll be looking for you in the crowd. Maybe we'll get Royal Pains to play some Guns N' Roses. That's their kind of stuff. Stickers for you as well.

Listen, that's actually a temporary tattoo. But you got a Toronto Mike sticker. It's all courtesy of StickerU.com. There's a Toronto sticker. And StickerU.com. Basically, a Toronto sticker. And stickeru.com, basically if you go to stickeru.com, you can order anything you can stick, like if you want to get labels, decals,

stickers, of course, temporary tattoos. I just added a new Toronto Mike decal to the back of the wall. If you're watching on Periscope, check that out. You can get one or as many as you want. And again, these are custom orders. It's pretty slick.

So stickeryou.com. They're great partners in Etobicoke here. And Terry, I think I alluded earlier that we're halfway there. And when I hear halfway there, I think of Bon Jovi. I don't know why. I don't know.

I'm not a big Bon Jovi guy myself, but I don't know what your thoughts are on Bon Jovi. Not anymore. Not anymore. Again, Slippery When Wet. Yeah, 87, right? Right, yeah. That was great. You're absolutely right.

So 30 years ago, which is post Slippery When Wet, but 30 years ago today, this was the number one song on the Billboard Hot 100. I guess this time you're really living I'll hold your suitcase and save you right Terry, put that lighter away, come on. Yeah, it's on my phone. I want to let him get to his chorus there. Come on, John. I'll be there for you These five words I swear to you

When you breathe I wanna be the air for you I'll be there for you I'll be there for you By Bon Jovi Now any, not even a guilty pleasure? Like caught yourself singing along When no one was looking?

I wasn't sure what song it was Until they did the chorus Because they all sound the same At that point in their career caught yourself singing along when no one was looking? I wasn't sure what song it was until it did get to the close. Because they all sound the same at that point in there. Yes, they do. We went slippery when we went. That's the good stuff. So why am I playing? Because Remember the Time is brought to you

by Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. They've been doing quality watch and jewelry repairs for over 30 years. Terry, if you ever went to a Sears Canada location to get your watch fixed or a new battery, that was really fast time. Now, Sears took a hike, left the country, and fast time started opening up new locations,

including a new one in Richmond Hill. So everybody should go to fasttimewatchrepair.com to find out a location near them. But also, if you want to get 15% off any regular price watch battery installation, mention you heard about Fast Time on Toronto Mic'd.

You get 15% off. Alright, John, we'll see you later. I'm sure you'll be back on the charts again. So, Terry, tell me, when did you realize that you wanted to write? Like me when did you realize that you uh wanted to write like when did you realize you could write well it's a little bizarre the way it happened i was that as i mentioned earlier i think

my undergrad at guelph was a history major and in the fall of 93 a good friend of mine gary collins collins with a k he lives not too far from here now, he's a high school teacher, became the sports editor at our school paper, the Ontarian. And I had no inkling to it at all. I had been volunteering at schools in Guelph for my undergrad, that sort of thing, with the idea of going into teaching. And Gary approached me in September or October of that year and said, hey, we need someone to cover the men's varsity hockey team

for the school paper, do you want to do it? And I said, sure, why not someone to cover the men's varsity hockey team for the school of paper. Do you want to do it? And I said, sure. Why not? And so I did every home game. I went to one away game at Western. I remember being handed a $5 bill for per team that day. So that was the start of it. And really Mike, the funny thing, the way that

season ended, University of Guelph loses at Maple Leaf Gardens in the CIU final to who? The Lethbridge Hockey Club coached by Mike Babcock. Wow. So we have, we go back to the March, I believe, of 94. Wow.

Although I don't, the funny thing is with that, I don't have, I've, I would imagine the story that I wrote off that game is somewhere, because I've never thrown anything out. I've kept everything I've ever written, every press pass I've ever been given. They're in boxes in the basement. But I don't, I often

think, was there a Babcock scrum after that that I was a part of? There wouldn't have been much media. There probably was because I've seen photos of him from that day and I do remember that. I'd be curious to know if he sounded the same. Is this the strange hybrid accent that he seems to have? Did that exist back then?

I would have think that that's evolved somehow, but I don't know. It's a good question. Is it like Gilbert Gottfried, you know, like if you catch him? You know what I'm talking about. Well, I remember Bogpack Goldthwait too. That's a good example.

You know, I'd be like, oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I heard the story recently, like Bobcat Goldthwait had a partner and they were called the Bobcat and the Tomcat. And that's where he got that character from. And then,

you know, well, you know, they filmed the police Academy movies were filmed around here. Yes. Number one, especially at the, uh,

which is now Humber college. Yeah. But there's like, I got to see, I got scenes from Lakeshore. I'll show my teenagers. I'll be like, look,

here's a high tower. Here's high tower. And his little car taking a driving lesson, here's Hightower, here's Hightower in his little car taking a driving lesson going down Lakeshore, down all these numbered streets or whatever. But yeah, that Babcock accent, I think he's, I think that's a shtick. Yeah, it's strange.

I'm not quite sure about it, but I would, and back then I wouldn't have had a recording of anything either. It would all have been pen and pad, so there wouldn't be the voice recording from 1994. It's only in your mind's eye, your memory bank here. So, okay, so you,

yeah, so you're writing for in university. Yeah. And how does that get you to the Toronto Sun? Well, the year ends, 94 ends. My girlfriend, now my wife and I thought we'd take 94, 95 off and move back home to Wyreton where my parents are and her parents are.

Okay. That's where the groundhog is, right? Yeah. That's all I know. I know. That's all many people know. That's okay. It's a beautiful country other than the rodent.

Anyway, so we'd plan to take the next year to, you know, work. I'd got a job as a bartender at the only bar in town. And at the end of the summer of 94, my mom threw me a copy of the On Sun Sun Times, said, Hey, there's an ad in here looking for a wiring correspondent with your background now. Why don't you do it? And I said, well, you know, I still think I'll do this teaching thing. And I lined up a volunteering gig at the public school in town and I applied for the job anyway got that and then really uh you know they had me doing other things up there I was covering court no one sound I wasn't doing any sports or anything like that and um at Christmas of that I can't remember how it led to applying to journalism school at Western the MA program

but that's what I wound up doing got in in at Christmas time, started in May of 95. And, uh, it's hard to believe it's been 24 years, but, um, while, so while part of that program was then, I know it's changed a lot in the ensuing decades, but you had to do a one month internship at a place that you could more or less get into. And the, uh, the previous classes had written would write reviews of where they interned so a guy in the class two years before me had interned in the toronto sun sports department so i thought what the hell i'm gonna send them a letter and hey i can't remember the guy's name but just the guy did raved blah blah they said fine come and do it i showed up there on a really cold day in January of 95,

and I think it was their 18 days in total. First few days, I was organizing shelves, but by the end of it, I had 13 bylines, and John Crick, who is now our NFL writer, and Pat Greer, the co-assistance under Scott Morrison. And John had said to me, stay in touch, and, you know, go finish school, stay in touch. And, uh, that's what I did. And one thing led to another, I was hired that following September. And you've been there ever since? Ever since. And that's like mid nineties. That's September of 96. And the thing was then

it was, there was no guarantee of anything full time. What they did was the sun and a lot of guys went through this thing. Mike Zeisberger did, uh, I'm not sure if Beezer or Steve Buffery did or not, but others did as well. Ryan Wohlstadt, I believe, did. They'll hire you to work agate and they'll say, look, we'll throw you a bone every so often to write. And there's no guarantee of this becoming full-time. So this is August of 96. My wife and I were engaged then to get married a few weeks later in October. And I was working at a weekly in hanover ontario but now we're north of kitchen which is a job i got coming out of school so i thought well i'm gonna it was really weird the way it happened

too i was i said to john uh i kept sending quick clips all summer and at the end of august i called him because you know there's no other way to talk to people and no text really text. And they said, I'm coming to Toronto to have drinks with cousins. Can you bring in a fresh batch of Clips? He said, yeah, sure. Come on in. So it turned out that day that an Aga guy had resigned that morning. And within two weeks, I had started and was off to the races. Now, today, like when people resign, they don't replace them, right?

Yeah, it's different now. It's a different thing now. It is. You just kind of, yeah. Someone else just has to do more work. Right. Pretty much. Pretty much.

And then, Mike, what I really lucked out, if you will, is a year or so later, the St. Mike's Majors start up. The year after that, we have the Brampton Battalion, Mississauga Ice Dogs. And I went to Scott Morris and said, look, Scott, what are we doing junior we doing junior hockey wise and he said there's not really a plan right now but if you want to do it do it and uh that's that's how I got that start in junior hockey amazing okay can you so when you when you join the sun there in mid 90s uh can you remember some you want to just name drop uh I know some people think it's rude to name drop, and I actually encourage it. Name drop some of the writers that were there.

Well, Simmons, I'd already hit his mark. My first... The first time I met Ken Fidlin was a little bit off-putting because Ken was an overly friendly sort, but we got to like each other over the years. It's a lot of... you know, Mike Rutzi, Jim Hunt, of course. I never, Jim was toward the tail end,

so I never really got to know Jim that well, but I'd see him in the office, I think every Friday he'd come in, shoot the breeze, and just take a seat in the chair and tell stories. I can imagine that, yeah, he would just tell great stories. It was.

That's exactly what it was. Because we got a taste of it on Primetime Sports. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he would almost always sit in the same chair in the office and just tell these great stories. It was. That's exactly what it was. Because we got a taste of it on Primetime Sports. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he would almost always sit in the same chair in the office and just tell these great stories and whoever was around would listen. George Gross, again, was still, I think,

our corporate sports auditor. So I got to know George quite a bit. Then I always got the A-key, though, you know, this sort of thing that so many guys at our place got. But yeah, Scott Morrison was running the place and I think he left just a year or so after to go to SportsCenter, if I'm not mistaken. But yeah, a lot of the same people.

You know, Mike Zeisberger was covering baseball then and Mike, of course, and I would go on to cover hockey together. Lance was on the Leaf Beat then like he is now. Rob Longley was all part of it. Yeah, it was just a really good time to get into that sort of thing. And what they did too at the Sun

was you worked the desk a lot as well. So learning the ropes, learning to write headlines, learning to edit copy, learning to put pages together, I think made all of us better writers back then. And I don't know that today's younger writers really get that sort of experience.

And really they all should, but I also understand that it's so different now than it was then what about like a legendary uh toronto sun sports guy like bob elliott i'm not listen i'm not yeah i shouldn't be remiss it's elliott same thing um and bob just just his drawl and the way that he worked like more or less over all the time was something that i don't think anyone else really did or has done. And, and,

uh, it was interesting cause you'd, you, you wouldn't see these, these guys that often because although with Scott though, it kind of changed. He, he liked us to be in the office a lot.

The problem back then was when you were writing, you'd get to the office after covering a practice or whatever. And then this was before the days of the internet. So you'd sit around and tell, everyone would laugh and tell stories and jokes all day long. You look at it at eight o'clock and go, I haven't filed yet. I got to get on this.

And that happened a lot in the late nineties, early two thousands. But Bob, again, one of these guys that would come through every so often. And he just, you know, he had the, the can of chewing tobacco in his back pocket, the black jeans, the cowboy boots. And just the way this style of writing was a lot different and still is.

And again, doing a bit of Jay's before he left us a few years ago, got to see him in action, if you will, and the way he would work was pretty impressive. And then a character like Frank Siccarelli, you know. Some of the stories that are out there are Frank or legendary. I don't know if I can tell them here or not, but you know, there, I think that one, one thing that I really enjoyed and never took for granted was that whole sports atmosphere. You get people from so many different walks of life.

And I think people to go male, tell you the same thing. The Toronto star would tell you the same thing. Now at the place of the athletic, they tell you the same thing. And just in that environment, you got to know a lot of different people. Mostly Toronto guys, don't get me wrong, but a lot of different personalities and just a real ton of fun.

What do you think of a model like the athletic? Good for them. I mean, it's in this, it's difficult now for anyone to get a real handle on anything new. They seem to have conquered that idea and, you know, just getting bigger and better. But the bottom line is we need journalists, period. And it's difficult to see the way that our industry has gone.

How could it not be? Like I said, you mentioned earlier about people leave and those places aren't, or those jobs aren't full. Our sports department now is probably about half the size of it was when I started. And a lot more copywriters and that sort of thing. But it's... But only half? That's actually kind of impressive.

Yeah, it's, we've done, the Toronto Sun and Post Media behind us have done a good job of keeping that, you know, going and this sort of thing. We have a good travel budget and that. And I think we use it properly but um it's uh it is difficult to see the changes and and and and that sort of thing and kind of wonder where it's going and it's who knows the athletic could be the start of something we don't know right we'll have to see and like you said the more journalists out there more jobs for journalists the better

right right the less there are in any street in any avenue of this industry the worse it is for the public whether half that public wants to acknowledge that or not no i had kevin mcgrann on this show and i can't i won't say the number because i can't remember the exact exact number but he told me how many toronto star were sent to Philadelphia for the 93 World Series. And he gave me a number and I think it was like the number was if the number was like 40, let's say, right?

I know, well, my reference point for that would be, we've talked about 2001, the Raptors going as far as they did, the Leafs going as far as they did, of course, in 02, the Leafs go to the conference final. I just remember being on the road. I think it was Leafs, Devils, and Raptors,

Knicks, if I'm not mistaken, one of those years. And if I'm not, I remember the schedules were fairly similar. So it was home and then road. I just remember all of us, the sports writers on the road from our place, the Globe, the Star.

And I guess the Post would have fled something at that point, but there were a lot. If they were even around. Oh yeah, they were around, yeah. You're right. In late 90s. You're right, you're right, you're right. Yeah, that's right. That Knicks series, that's the first time the Raps ever won a playoff series. Five gamer. Five, yeah, it was

the best of five, as I recall. But those days are gone. But yeah, kind of amazing, and we'll touch on this as we proceed, but kind of sad that, I mean, I grew up with a newspaper on the table, you know, every Saturday, you know, and I did my sports first

and I had my sections I'd go to. And it's just nowadays like this, people want it all for free through their web-enabled device. Yeah, I still like, I still buy the paper. I mean, I still buy it. I like the feel of it. I just like having that in my hand.

Do you know, like, would you be aware of what the current Toronto Sun paywall situation is? I'm not up on any of that stuff. You're not alone, okay? I asked Laura Armstrong. She covers the J's for the Star. What's the current rule? They just changed it.

She had no idea. And I was thinking, I was thinking, this is not to be rude to you, but I was thinking, I think I would want to know unless it keeps changing and you can't keep up.

No, I look at it this way. I get up and I do my job every day, try to do the best of my ability. I have a family and there are just other things for me that take up my time that way. You're producing good content. You don't have time to worry about the guys

who have to sell the. Well, everyone, everyone, people, other people are doing that sort of thing. Right. You know. Right. So that's what you do. Right.

Right. All right. You mentioned Steve Buffer. He's come up a couple of times. I just read that he was in, there's a, is it Ontario boxing? What is this? Yeah, one of the Boxing Hall of Fames.

Yeah. And he, again, it's funny I should mention the very first story I ever wrote of the son after I was hired there was a kickboxing boxing event, Serene Vaughn. And he set it up. And it was through his old friend. I think he's mentioned him on your show,

Eddie Sawadzki, who passed away a few years ago. Eddie, wasn't a promoter or what he was, but I show up at this hall in Vaughan, I can't remember which one it was, and I don't want to disparage anybody, but my memory is this. It was myself, Eddie, and 1,500 thugs there to watch. Okay?

And Eddie said to me, look, he goes, get a seat near the ring, but my advice would be don't sit within 10 rows you'll hit me up by flying blood this is probably the september october of 96 and so i took that advice i'll never forget the guy who won the main about that night was this guy from chicago um eddie something or something but he had his family there and he only won like 700 and it was just a real interesting experience for me to kind of get into that and Beezer had set all that up. I think that

was like, there was a brief kickboxing I think Jean-Claude Van Damme or something or something. It might have led to some sort of you know, not even a resurgence. No, but at least somebody like yourself was covering events in Vaughan, you know what I mean? Well, Mike,

that was the great thing about that experience was too, I talked about what you learned as a copy editor and everything, but back then,

the sun, you know, go cover this, go cover that. I got a call from John Crick one day and he says, Roberto Duran

is available this morning. Where? At the Whiskey A Go-Go. He's doing some professional thing there. Can you get up to the whiskey? I'm like,

sure I can. So, just things like that where you were doing so many different things and really getting to know the business that way. I think a lot of that's gone too. Yeah, in a moment, I'm going to find out all the sports you covered. So I don't know if that's in the back of the cranium somewhere,

but we're going to dig that. But I got to ask about some more Sun guys. So we talked about, okay, we did Buffery, we did Wallstead, and you touched on Longley, but is there any more you can give us? He's a, I got tostead, and you touched on Longley, but is there any more you can give us? He's a,

I got to get him on this show. Rob Longley has not been on the show yet, but I'll make sure I get him on, but anything more to add on Rob Longley? Well,

again, Rob, Rob, you know, we didn't really cross paths much until covering the Leafs together probably four or five

seasons ago, and again, I think he's done a fine job on the Jays beat for us, done a really good job with it since he switched a few seasons ago. Right., I think he's done a fine job on the Jays beat for us, done a really good job with it since he switched a few seasons ago. Right.

On that note, by the way, I'm told by my TFC fan friends that Buffery's doing a good job with TFC. Good. You guys are adaptable. Well, I think that's one thing. Versatility is key. And it was certainly that,

but that's all we know, right? I mean, like I said, those guys who went through the ringer of the sun earlier all had those similar experiences where you're being sent to this one day, work a few desk shifts, go to the cover of this, you know, and that. And for me, like I said, I kind of lucked out that junior hockey became a thing in Toronto then. And I kind of got my meat hooks into that and went from there. You got any more for me on Lance Hornby?

Well, Lance is like a, like your leaf historian, right? You know, he's written several books on the leafs and the things that they've done. And, and it's funny, you know, my friends say to me, well, what do you think it'd be like to cover a leafs run to a Stanley cup? And although you go by the adage, no cheering in

the press box, which I would hope that we all do. Right. We would all love to cover something like that because the experience of it, I know for a guy like Lance, who's been around it as long as he has, that hasn't happened.

And, you know, I know that he would love to do something like that, for sure. Yeah, he might have to live to be 100, but we'll see. Oh, I don't know. If Kyle Davis can solve some of these cap issues, perhaps not.

We're going to definitely, before I close out, I'm going to do some Leafs talk with you for sure, for sure, for sure. Now I need another hour here because I want to talk about a friend of the show, Steve Simmons, in a little more detail. Don't need an hour. I guess I'm curious. Okay, so I love reading, Steve.

Right, so do I. Right. Steve, and when I use his word, there's a gentleman, Al, who has a, he put together a bingo card for Toronto Mic. I bring up common themes, threads, whatever, that link all these episodes, and I will mention one, and then, of course, it's a blotter spot on the bingo card. And one of them is polarizing, okay?

Steve Simmons, a lot of my Twitter followers would like him to be fired. They would get great joy, I think, if he were fired. Which to me is ridiculous. They also wanted Damien Cox fired

and then they got their wish and I got, it was like near Christmas and I guess I broke the story in the public realm or whatever and I got these tweets about early Christmas gift

and all this and I'm like, the poor guy just lost his gig. We cover sports for a people living, or for a living people. It's not life and death for people. Listen, I get passionate sports fans and everything, fine.

But to hope for or wish for somebody gets fired because you don't like the way they write is absolutely insane. If you ask a Steve Simmons hater what they don't like, they often will point to, and this is a fairly recent story considering how long Steve has been writing, but they'll point to the Phil Kessel trade.

And the lead, the hot dog story. It's such a big topic of discussion on the show that I think I spent a half an hour talking to Steve's son about it, Jeff Simmons, about the hot dog story. What are your personal thoughts on the hot dog story

that Steve told about Phil Kessel? It was one column one day and it was completely blown out of proportion and everything that came afterward. We did. But I come at, don't forget, I come at Steve from a completely different angle. Hey, tell me. Not a colleague. I often think and I've never actually had this conversation with Steve, but Steve's,

what you see and read of Steve and what you see on Twitter is, I don't want to say it's a character he's created for the business, but that's not Steve Simmons in real life. One thing that my friends will say to me is, don't work in the business, what's Steve Simmons really like? Well, first of all, he's a hell of a guy. Second of all, you know, I believe we've become really good friends. And, you know, when my wife was pregnant with her first child in 2001, just some of the advice I got from Steve and some of the things he said to me will just

kind of stay with me for forever, really. And my dad died 11 years ago. So I don't look at Steve as a father figuring like that because we're closer in age, but, um, just a guy that I can talk to and call out of the blue when, when things are kind of, you know, whatever.

But, uh, I, I, Steve's a hell of a human being. That's all there is to it. Now, considering though,

these same people who are, you know, the Steve Simmons haters or whatever, they, they only see the public persona of Steve. They'll never see the real Steve Simmons, right? That's right. And I think to use a term from,

and by the way, if you go like that, you can kind of squish him up. But to use a term from WWE, what I affectionately remember is the WWF. This is my Army of the Giant mug right here. That's good, I like that. That's from 1985 I bought that. Is it really?

Yeah, it stayed with me, man. Good. Loved that guy. Of from 1985. I bought that. Is that really? Yeah. Stayed with me, man. Good. Love that guy. Of course, I was already riding Piper. It was my favorite, but I like Andre the Giant too. But a heel turn, okay?

So, you know, Andre did a heel turn. Like these good wrestlers, they start being bad guys or whatever. Hulk Hogan famously had a heel turn or whatever. Steve's public persona

on Twitter, et cetera, is it maybe he's done like a heel turn or whatever. Steve's public persona on Twitter, etc. Maybe he's done a heel turn to create, because it's better to have people kind of love to hate you than to ignore you. I think it's the enemy of love. It's not hate. It's indifference. Indifference is not what you want.

Now, I don't know if I'm putting it correctly with Steve by saying that way but. I'm just trying to stir some trouble up in the Toronto Suns. Yeah I don't know. I think it would take a lot to stir up trouble between him and I but he no I just I guess that's one unfortunate part is that you don't get to know

these people on a personal level. Just like we don't know the players on a personal level for 95% of them. And people say what's player x like or what's player b like well listen i can't tell you because i don't know we don't leave the rink together there are a few of these leafs that i would probably consider myself i would know a little bit more about but um it just the same thing would apply to to sports writers and uh he's, you know, again, he's just not what you see and read every day to me. So if anyone's listening who just doesn't like Steve Simmons, you would say he's a good guy.

He is a great, good man. Yeah, completely. Well, you said you had Jeff in here, right? Yep. Well, you're impressed with him as a young man. I mean... Well, again, I'm like you, though. I'm not like you in that.

I don't, he's not a colleague, Steve, but he's been here a few times and we kicked out the jams together. Let me ask you this then. Yeah. When you, when all you knew of Simmons before you had him on for the first time, how much did that change?

Or not, maybe you were a fan of him before. Maybe you were, I don't know. No, I didn't. I, yeah. So that's a great question, which is, so when I was meeting uh steve for the first time he said what what did i think i what was i what did i expect right uh yeah i didn't know i honestly didn't know like i didn't know if he'd be a warm nice guy or if he'd be kind of

not rude but no one's rude when they come over but well sometimes but uh i didn't i i wasn't sure what to expect with Steve and I was surprised by how likable a guy he was in person. That's why I had him back. Yeah, he's just, again, probably can't say it enough. Good person. Good man. He is coming back on Toronto Mike, just a little

teaser, with Cash Palmer. So Cash Palmer and Steve Simmons are coming on the show. That should be cool. Zeisberger, who is a fantastic, fairly recent guest on this show, Mike Zeisberger. Zeis is great. Again, he's a guy that I've become close with. I've been to his place in Honey Harbor a few times. And if you want to see somebody navigate the islands up there, I know you've been to that part of our province before, but you get in a boat and

the islands, thousands of dawn everywhere. Zyze can get his boat through these things with about a foot of a room on either side, uh, like nobody's business. It's like watching Mitch Varner go through, you know, fill in the defense core of any opposing team.

But Zyze, uh, just one of these guys that wears his heart in his sleeve and, um, and, uh, you know, I was really happy I got to work with him a lot on the hockey beat at the Sun. And, you know, the cool thing is, you know, it was funny, we had a going away thing for Zyze that, I think it was at Betty's a few, when he left a year and a half or so ago. And all these people who wouldn't necessarily interact with him again

in the Sun, why is he still getting to see Zyze like every other day, more or less? So it's great. Again, a really good guy and comes from a part of the city I don't know that well. I've probably been east of Yonge about four times in my life. You know, it's funny. But Zyze is money

for sure. What is that about east of Yonge and west of Yonge? I don't know. Because I rarely, I mean, now I have to go a bit for business and this and that, but I rarely there's not much east of Yonge and west of Yonge? I don't know. Because I rarely go, I mean, now I have to go a bit for business and this, but I rarely, there's not much east of Yonge for me and I spent almost my entire life west of Yonge.

I was born in Mississauga. I lived there until I was 10. I moved to Mitnitobuco when I first moved back to Toronto. My mom and dad were Jane and Blur. So that's, that's a big part of this, right? That's the Ukrainian festival.

Right, exactly. You know, they met at Humberside, all this sort of thing. So. My kids go there now. Well, there you go. It Ukrainian festival. Right, exactly. You know, they met at Humberside, all this sort of thing. My kids go there now. Well, there you go. So I literally had been to the beach once.

One of my cousins got married down there about 20 years ago. And that's literally the only time I've been to the end of Queen Street. Well, I'm better than you. Every once in a while I have to go to East York and I'm going,

oh, there's an East York? I should say, you know, anything east of the DVP, I would say. Right. Give yourself. Yeah. But you, you can cover Toronto sports and never go east of Yonge.

There's no Toronto sports. That's right. Playing east of Yonge. Of course. Yeah. So there is that. There is that. I mean, yeah, it's just one of those

geographical divides that doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, but I guess it exists for some of us. I will say if cyclists are listening and they're west of Yonge people, that that Don Valley Trail is fantastic. Like I feel like. I've read a lot about it. I will say if cyclists are listening and they're west of young people that that Don Valley Trail is fantastic. Like I feel like.

I've read a lot about it. I would love to, because when I, when I lived down here on 35th Street, we didn't have kids yet. So way more time in my hands. I was working mostly nights. My wife, my wife worked at a, worked at an office building in Mississauga.

I would bike all the time from here down to the harbor front. Sure. They call it the, the waterfront trail, but it turns into the Martin Goodman trail. Yeah, or I'd go the other way toward Port Credit and beyond. But I never did do the Don Valley and that sort of thing, but I imagine. But you probably

did do the Humber trail, right? Humber trail. I went into High Park a lot and I just love doing it. Great. Yeah, you need the time, of course, because I'm one of those guys. I don't want to ever drive somewhere to bike. Like I have to,

I want to bike from here. I've done it a couple of times Mike, where I've loaded the bike into the back of a van and got it parked down on the lake shore and done it like that. But you know what it's like as a father, that time disappears. Right. Right.

Right. Speaking. Okay. Speaking of fatherhood here, that's a great segue here. It's like you're ready to. When the Toronto suns launches their, all their podcasts. I don't know if that's a great segue here. It's like you're ready to... When the Toronto Suns launches all their podcasts, I don't know if that's in development or not,

but you're all set. Nanamaskiri time. Children ages 4 to 14 should go to Camp Tournesol. Camp Tournesol has been providing French camps in the GTA for tens of thousands of children since 2001, since Vince Carter missed that three against Philly. So it all comes full circle. They have 15 campuses across the GTA and several overnight programs.

Again, the largest French camps in Ontario. If you go to campt.ca, You can see the overnight programs and the day camps available. When you register your son or daughter or both for a camp at Camp Ternusel, use the promo code Mike2019 because you'll save a little money and it lets Camp Ternusel know

that you learned about him on Tron Mike. Terry, do you speak any French at all? No. None? Not even that? Not even that, no. Well, I was going to say it's not too late for you, but it's probably too late for you, Terry.

You know what does bother me, though? Tell me. My grandparents, my dad's parents were Ukrainian. My mom's were Polish. So my dad grew up speaking Ukrainian. My mom grew grew up speaking Polish and they would speak a hybrid of language to each other and I would love to go back 25 30 years with the longer than that I suppose 40 years with the realization I was gonna do for a living so I always thought what would we like to because Ukrainian and Russian are

fairly similar languages to have walked up to a Alexey Ponikrovsky or an Alexey Mogilny today in Nikita Zaitsev and just start speaking in their language. Right. You probably get so much... Yes, like when a Spanish reporter was able to talk to Edwin in Mexico. Right, exactly. I mean, it just... It's just something that you regret, but at the time

you don't know, but... Now I need to ask you some geopolitical questions about where you grew up with the Jane of Bloor period because you had the Ukrainian festival right going along Bloor Street there.

I think the hub was like Windermere and Bloor. Well that was my parents though. I was born and raised in Mississauga from the age of 10. right, right, right.

I was going to ask because you have on Bronsies at the same weekend they do the Polish festival. I know, yeah. And we like to go, one of the restaurants there, we go every so often

and there's a record shop there my son likes to visit. So we're in Roncesvalles quite a bit. My mom lived on Fern Avenue. That was the first home she lived in. So we know that area of the city a bit. But I was more a Mississauga guy and again going back to that

geographical divide. So there's no, like, there's no, I don't know, there's no other reason, like, nefarious reason that the Polish and the Ukrainians are having their festival on the same day? Like, is that a competition they're having? I don't know what that is. Because it's a big, long summer.

I feel like we could separate that. Well, you're right. But my experience, completely personal, is that Polish and Ukrainians get along quite well, so. I'm glad to hear that because, and I noticed that the, I think, I feel like the Polish festival's one day maybe

and the Ukrainian one's the whole weekend. It's a big deal though because my teenagers always go to that Ukrainian. We don't go as often as we should, but it's certainly something that we'd like to expose our kids to for sure. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, you got to talk to Jim Slotek,

formerly of the Toronto Sun because there's the, you can get in on that. There is definitely a Ukrainian drinking club having a good time run by Ted Wallachian and a bunch of guys. And there's also, I know of a place, one of the Ukrainian, there's a Ukrainian office, if you will,

right at Jane and Bloor. Credit union? Yeah, it could be. Back in the day, they used to make their pierogies and sell them. One of my cousins would pick them up and we had them that way a few times and they were as close to my grandmother's

authentic pierogies that I could get. Amazing. Yeah. Amazing, amazing. All right, before we move on and I find out every sport you've covered, I can't wait to do this, actually. I want to just thank our newest sponsor. So, Capadia LLP CPAs. Welcome, Capadia. They are, of course, they're public accountants. And what I like about them, and I've spent some time with Rupesh, is that they see beyond the numbers. You know, you want your accounting firm to get the numbers right. That's like your prerequisite, right? You get the numbers right. But at Capadia, they see beyond the numbers. And you, Terry, this is a very cool, very real offer for you as a guest of Toronto Mic'd. Rupesh Kapadia would like to offer you a

free 30-minute consultation. You could, you know, should you wish to take him up on the offer, you could talk about anything you're considering business-wise, and he'll give you great advice, what would save you money. The guy sees, like I said, beyond the numbers. So if there's anything you're thinking about, like moving this into that or whatever, whatever. It could be a million trillion things as a conversation you can have free of charge

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and disability insurance policies are tax-free. So it's this kind of insight and this kind of best practice advice that you get when you go to Kapadia. So contact Kapadia at kapadiallp.com. All right, Terry, so nowadays you're covering hockey, and we'll close with some hockey talk. But could you do this? Could you run down, with your long career at the Toronto Sun,

all the sports that you have covered, all the beats you've covered? Well, I can tell you what I haven't done because that list is a lot shorter. I think the only thing I haven't covered is the TFC game. I know I haven't covered a TFC game. That would be,

so it was a bit of an interesting time. I said to you, you know, I started covering junior hockey in the late 90s. Right. I was in full time then, so there was a little bit of an interesting time. I said to you, you know, I started covering junior hockey in the late 90s. Right. I was in full-time then. So there was a little bit of leeway

as to what you could do as a freelancer. And Scott Morrison, the Canadian press, needed a part-time baseball Jays beat writer. So I did that for three summers, 98, 99, 2000, before I came full-time in the Sun in 01. And since then, you know, a couple of NHL lockouts led to actually a few Raptors games.

And I should say to you, Mike, that one part of respect I didn't have, well, a huge part of respect I didn't have for the sport before I covered it in Sac Courtside was the physicality of it. That blew me away and it still does. You know, now I have a much greater understanding and respect for that than I ever had.

In the mid-2000s, I was lucky enough to cover three of the Molson Indies with Dean McNulty, who recently passed away. And again. Oh, really recently? Yeah, like a couple of weeks and difficult. But Dean had retired a few years ago, but moved the Ottawa area.

But he was great. He was like covering something with the King of Kensington. I know that's a bit of a dated reference but so i covered three of those races with dean and uh it was great everyone knew who he was and and the respect you know race car driver athlete i couldn't marry those two until i covered it and the concentration level for these guys right it's like something I couldn't imagine. And it was just a great experience for me to see another part of it, another sport. But, you know, CFL football, I started doing that in 08 a bit

and still have my finger on that a bit. But yeah, I mean, soccer, I think I did a Canada-Costa Rica game at Varsity Stadium once in the late 90s. And it was packed and there was not one Canada fan in the place. Yeah, I'm not surprised. Yeah, it was so bizarre.

But it was, to answer your question, the whole gamut of it, which again, I don't know that the younger people who come into it today get that experience, which is valuable in so many ways. Nowadays, it seems like you're a specialist, right? Right, you do.

It is, but back then, you just deal with different people. You get to see, I formed an opinion of athletes who played baseball professional baseball i didn't like it very much i could those three years i covered the jays i probably named four or five men who were who were friendly enough i remember darren fletcher seemed like a really good guy pat hinken oddly enough jose can't say go the year he played i was around that team a bit and he had no problem giving you time.

He'd sit around on the couch in the clubhouse. He was a really good guy to talk to. Well, maybe that was Aussie, and you thought it was Jose. Yeah. Well, I like to think I knew enough of a baseball to know I could tell the twins apart. But, you know, that was the Roger Clemens era.

He was an interesting dude. Roy Holiday, again, very... All business, right? All business. A little bit of a Kawhi, maybe? Yeah, for sure. Oh, that's a really good comparison. But then, you know, years later,

you're around the Canadian Football League and I think the first year I was on the B, well, it was 08, but the first road game I did was in Winnipeg and Kirk Penton, who covered the Bombers then for the Winnipeg Sun, pointed at a Home Depot beyond the field goal post and said, hey, do you see the Home Depot there? I said, yeah. He goes, three of the Bombers then for the Winnipeg Sun pointed at a Home Depot beyond the field goal post there and said, hey, do you see the Home Depot there?

I said, yeah. He goes, three of the Bombers worked there during the off season. Right. So with football players, you're dealing with a different athlete altogether and almost to a man, really good people. They go home and they work on the off season and

I don't know what it was, linemen, offensive linemen always seem to be the smartest of the group, but we decided to go like Ricky Ray a superstar in his own right and really down to earth so and what hockey players are hockey players it's I can't describe it the guys that come from small towns Sweden and Finland more or less might

as well be from Saskatchewan here I just find with a lot of the similarities Czechs are friendly people the Russians have certainly a different way of life growing up. But again, you know, I could probably name on one hand the real jerks have come through that room. I need the list right now.

There aren't many. Well, maybe it's just the way they were. But, you know, Tom Barrasso was a guy who was very difficult to deal with, but that wasn't unique to Toronto at all. Robert Reichel was a bit of a different guy, but again, I think that might have been more of a shyness and that sort of thing.

And really, there aren't many. There were some days with Phil Kessel that were interesting as well now. Yeah, and he was kind of a reserved guy, right? Like a little bit, maybe shy even? Yeah, I would think so, but just didn't enjoy doing the media part of it, which I understand not everybody does.

The room now, I don't know, but just didn't enjoy doing the media part of it, which I understand not everybody does. The room now, I don't know if it's the youthful enthusiasm or the fact that these guys are pretty sure they're onto something good here. It's a great dressing room to cover, it really is. No assholes in the current Maple Leaf dressing room? Not a one. And like I say, Mike, there haven't been over the, it's just not a thing that you get in hockey. And again, you talk about, you know,

characters and this sort of thing. You talk to a Brad Marston off the ice, usually things are pretty good. I mean, the first time the Leafs had this whole Bruins thing was in 2013, and we got to know Milan Lucic a bit. Completely different guy than what you saw playing the game.

And I think you find that a lot with them. But across the NHL, it's quite a good breed of athlete to be around. So of all the Toronto sports teams you've covered, the sport that had the most jerks was baseball. Is that what I'm hearing? They just standoffish. And again, I don't know what it was,

but maybe it was, I wasn't around them as much like i am the least now where it's a constant daily thing but uh there's just a different vibe and i think it still exists and also when you cover the jays they weren't that good right which maybe i don't know what that role that plays right and i was around a bit to do the odd game so the thing now is with fewer people in our department you're like you say we're doing different things so yeah the odd game or two I'd cover in the Bautista era and that,

but not enough to certainly form an opinion. Interesting. Again, my only touch point for most of this is Hep C, but he'll tell me about early 80s Jays teams he covered, and he'll tell you about, he'll be straight up about what an asshole Dave Steeb was, for example. I've heard those sorts of things,

but again, I think Steeb would have been there. I've heard those sorts of things, but again, I think Steeb would have been there, one of those weird comeback years. He came back as a reliever. Right. I think so. I think I was. 92?

Yeah. No, later maybe? Later. After. Because my first year was 98 and I kind of, I remember that. So David Wells was an interesting guy. Certainly March, talking about guys who marched

to meet him. He sat two, no, the row in front of me for a Red Hot Chili Peppers Stone Temple Pilot concert at the Molson Amphitheater. David Wells did? David Wells, yeah. Oh, interesting. He liked some good tunes.

I wasn't at that show, but I remember seeing the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I don't know if you went to that show. They played by the world's biggest bookstore on Young and Edward. No. Summer 98 or 7 or something, they decided to throw a free show on,

like 15,000 people showed up. That's amazing. But that's the band. Like if you were to say, what's the band you liked the most compared to how you like them now? I don't know what the terminology there is, but the biggest,

that's the band. So I, like Mother's Milk, I was just a huge Red Chili Peppers guy, like big, big fan. And I don't even put them on at all anymore. red chili peppers guy, like big, big fan. And I don't even put them on at all anymore.

Like I just, if you, for me, if you go back, go back to listen to blood, sugar, sex magic. Now it still sounds ahead of its time. To me,

that's the first James addiction record. It's nothing shocking. It's the same thing. Put it on now. And you won't tell me that was recorded sometime in the late eighties, early nineties. And for me, blood,

sugar, sex magic is that, and I, it's kind of, I'm like. And for me, Blood Sugar Sex Magic is that. And it's kind of, I'm like you though, Mike. I don't listen to them anywhere. Well, I listen to their old records, but nothing. Yeah, right. If you said to me, Mike, go listen to some,

I might, I'd probably put on Mother's Milk or Blood Sugar Sex Magic, but nothing after that. Like I wouldn't even, what I thought were decent at the time, like the Californication and all that stuff. I'll still listen to that, but probably the past two or three studio albums they've made, no. Interesting, interesting.

But, okay, here, so did you ever cover like horse racing? No, I did not. The closest I got to that was doing some of the draws of Woodbine when a leaf or so would do it in the middle of the summer and you're like, my God, thanks, a leaf story in the dead of August. You'd head up there and do it, but no, never horse racing.

And the sun, whatever gets you a leaf story, the sun's in, right? This is, this is what sells the newspaper Toronto Maple Leafs, right? Is it, yeah, maybe I do want to guess the current day and cause I don't want to keep you all day here, but maybe what about like a new, a new Toronto team, like the Wolfpack?

Have you yet taken a Wolfpack match? No, I haven't. And the, the, the TFC thing, I played high school soccer. So I've, you know, there's Wolfpack match? No, I haven't. And the TFC thing, I played high school soccer, so I've you know, there's, and I've covered the odd international event way back when. It just hasn't happened, and just haven't, not even to

cover it, but to actually be, I've never been to a game. And it's something that's on the bucket list. That's surprising. I mean, it's a great, it's like the, probably the best, I mean, excluding special events like last night, but it's the best live Toronto sports experience

as a TFC man. Well, I think it's amazing to watch. I mean, just the way that that, you know, that team captured that fan base as quickly as it did

and vice versa. And then to see them win was pretty awesome. They did something, yeah, I've been waiting since 93 for one of my teams to climb the mountain there. Fantastic. Now, before

we get to today's Leafs and Marlies, I want to ask about the Toronto Sun, just a general can you do a compare and contrast, maybe with a little more detail of what it's like working at the Sun today versus what it was like when you got there? Well, it's just different now because you're not in the office as much a lot of what we do now is remote because

you have to file more or less as quickly as possible to get something up on the website like i mentioned earlier back in the day i think scott morrison had a greater emphasis on being in the office but he would go back and trade ideas and and the deadline i think, I think our first deadline might've been midnight then. I can't remember. Cause I know the last was 2am. The last deadline now is midnight. So that's, that tells you how much that has changed. Two hours doesn't seem like a lot, but it is. So there, there, that's probably the biggest difference is that, you know, my wife would be like, where are you? And I'm like, well, she's still at the office and of course pre-kid. So, you know, maybe not as big

an energy at home or whatever but it was uh it was just more of that communal atmosphere i suppose it is now i think still at the rink when you're at when you're with these people that you work with but uh for me that's that's one of the biggest differences for sure and of course uh post your post media now like any change Any change there since that? Not really, because like we've mentioned, we still have a good, you know, we're still able to do travel and cover the teams properly

and give readers, I think, what they want that way. So that part of it really hasn't changed too much. Do you want to do any gloating? I don't think the other papers are going on the road. Are you guys still going on the road when the, are you, are you guys still going on the road when the Leafs play and whatever?

Yeah, we've been there. Yeah, we have. But, but the others aren't, right? I think the star picked it back up again for the most part. They weren't at every, they weren't at every, you're right, they weren't at every game, but I, I'm just happy for that, you know, that we still

have that opportunity to do those sorts of things. And you have to do it properly. That's one thing that's, that we still have that opportunity to do those sorts of things. And you have to do it properly. That's one thing that's different now too is, you know, Devin McGrann, you mentioned earlier, the amount of people with the Raptors in the road back then, the shrinking scrums that are on the road now, it's quite disheartening.

Well, Beezer, I think it was, am I allowed to call him Beezer? It's just a metaphor. I've never called him Steve. Okay, I have to call him Beezer too, but I think Beezer said he a metaphor. I've never called him Steve. Okay, I have to call him Beezer too, but I think Beezer said he was at a TFC match in Philadelphia

and he was the only, the only member of the press excluding like Philadelphia people. He was the only one at the match. He was saying something to that effect. Yeah, I think there, even last week,

I mean, I did the two Marlies games in Cleveland where they wrapped up against the Monsters and it turned out to be not quite scary at all. And it was myself and Leafs TV. I did the two Marlies games in Cleveland where they wrapped up against the Monsters. It turned out to be not quite scary at all. And it was myself and Leafs TV.

So it was a bit odd. Which is like a PR arm, essentially. So what interesting. So where are the Marlies at right now? They're in the conference final? Where are they? Yeah, Charlotte Checkers. Okay, and we're defending champions, right?

We are the Colder Cup champs. Yeah, and you talk about covering something that was, like those last, I covered the last two games of that series. Lance had done the most of it. But that was something else too. And you just kind of get an idea of what it would be like. Actually, you know what, Mike?

I can't say that. I have no idea what it'd be like if the Maple Leafs won the Stanley Cup here. We try to imagine it, the fan base tries to imagine it from our point of view to cover something like that. I don't think I could properly

put that in perspective. Sorry, I'll go one step further. But we did see a tiny bit of it when the Marlies won. Oh, really tiny. Tiny, tiny, like minuscule. I would go so far as to tell you we don't know what the city will do

if the Leafs win a round. Right. In this new social media digital age. It was, it was 04 was pre-Twitter. So we have no idea. We don't. And you know,

even when the, the Jays won those World Series in 92, 93, I lived in Wyreton then and going to school in Guelph. And I remember packs of cars and my friends driving down. There was no way to find,

there was no way to know, but just assuming there'd be a huge party in Yonge Street. And sure enough, there was. You're absolutely right. Now it's like, well, you know, but just assuming there'd be a huge party in Yonge Street, and sure enough, there was. You're absolutely right. Now it's like, well, you know, you know in an instant what's happening

and where, and there's this special place for fans. It's just so different. When TFC won the MLS Cup, I got on my bike and went to Yonge Street just to see. Like I didn't, like I wasn't, I didn't know.

Because I didn't have a frame of reference. I'm like, well, the last time, and you can't count, I don't mean any disrespect to the CFL faithful, but you can't count the Argos. You just can't. Well, I've covered, I've covered a couple. The one in 2012, the, this, the gray cup parade,

there were slots of Bay street that there were no people. So you cannot compare. So then I was like, well, what, what is it? What does an MLS cup mean to the city? Cause I know what, I do know what would happen if we won the World Series, the Stanley Cup, or the NBA Championship. I know people would

be on Yonge Street. I just know those three championships would have people spilling onto Yonge Street. Spilling onto Yonge Street and staying there for longer than a day or two, I would think. So I go to Yonge Street after the MLS Cup, and I'm biking. I'm coming from the West, and so I'm actually going kind of by Liberty village area to get there whatever and i see a small

group of people kind of in liberty village celebration like a small group in liberty village but a young nobody like not a human being carrying there's nothing happening on young street at all for for tfc winning the mls cup and i had to see it to know what it would be because i didn't have any frame of reference. And I didn't know. But I can tell you, I feel like, and people who like to laugh at us Raptors fans because we were really excited about this game-winning shot.

By the way, the first ever buzzer beater to win a game seven in NBA history, which I think that was amazing. So yeah, we're only halfway there, living on a prayer. So we got eight wins to go, and we were all excited, but none of us thought about going onto Yonge Street last night because we're only halfway there.

Right. But I wonder what would happen if the Leafs finally do win a series. I don't know. Again, you talk about reference points. So we're going back to, for me, 1-2-3, 0-2-3-4. 0-4, yeah. And I think the, when they lost in 0-2 to Carolina,

Matt Sundin scored late in game six to tie the game. Was it Marty Gelina that won overtime? Well, it's like one second left or something. Yeah, it was close. Yeah, yeah. That's the puck by, I believe, our tour survey.

And I remember saying someone, we say in the press box, someone who had been down in the concourse said there's like a feeling that they had never felt before or hadn't felt in years and years at a Leaf game. And there was just some sort of vibration that they couldn't properly describe. So I've often remembered that.

And I would think it would be then multiplied by layers. I can't even, we can't. How can we? If the Maple Leafs won a playoff series, two series, three, and the Stanley Cup is. I don't know yet. Forget it. There's no.

Shut it down, right? Yeah. Shut the city down. Shut the city down. Nevermind that. On this team now, let's say the Leafs do it in the next three or four years. Yeah. And they have most of these Toronto-born players

that they still have now. These guys get the cup for a day. I can't imagine what those days would be like. You can't just go home and throw up in the arena and say, okay, come and see the cup. It would be insane. Yeah, I mean, we got excited because Dave Bolin brought the cup to Mimico.

Yeah, the Blue Goose. Yeah, the Blue Goose, yeah. I mean, a Leaf doing that? Zach Hyman takes it, Mitch Marner. I mean, Tavares has it, Noakville. I mean, the list goes on. I just can't imagine. It's fun to have this chat and dream.

You got me excited because I'm also riding that high from last night. So anyway, it's all good, James. So the Leafs. Actually, let's let Brian set this up. I don't mean to stop. So this is Brian Gerstein. He's a real estate sales representative with PSR Brokerage. Here is Brian.

Hi, Terry. Brian Gerstein, a.k.a. Raptor's devotee here, still basking in the glory of the shot. Sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Night. Now's the time to contact me for a free home evaluation if you are considering selling your home and are looking to buy during the busy

spring market which has arrived. I just completed one as homes are moving again. You can also call or text me at 416-873-0292 if you're interested in the upcoming Galleria Mall condo redevelopment. Terry, your Twitter profile shot resembles a mug shot. Was this completely circumstantial or was it the look you went for?

You also tweeted how Morgan Riley said the Leafs blew a huge opportunity losing to the Bruins when up 3-2 in the series. With Boston firmly in control against Carolina and now almost odds-on favourites to win the Cup, do you think the Leafs would have also been in this position now? So the Leafs got by Boston, and it was pretty close. Doors are wide open. Wide open.

Wide open. And a few of them acknowledged that on the locker clean-out day. Morgan was one of them. Several others that they did not need to be told nor reminded of their opportunity missed. That wasn't to take anything away from the Columbus Blue Jackets or whatever else was happening across the league with the upsets, but they knew and they still know.

Yeah. Is Morgan the next captain of the Leafs? Who is the captain of the Leafs? I still think it's going to be Austin Matthews. Having been around John Tavares now for a full season and, you know, it's crazy. I remember going to Oshawa the day that it was clear that he was going to be the next big thing

in the Ontario Hockey League, probably the fall of, or sorry, the spring of 05 when he was announced as exceptional. And he was a kid then and the man he is now, it's like night and day. But Tavares would be a fine choice. Morgan Riley would be a fine choice. There's four good choices, really.

Austin Matthews would be one. Because you could put an argument up for Matthews. I think he's the obvious choice. So Matthews, you could put up a great argument for Morgan Riley. You could put up a great argument for John Tavares. And you could put up an argument, theoretically, for Mitch Marner. Well, Mitch Marner, his approach to the game is something I just haven't seen. And none of us have.

I mean, he and Austin are the same age. And Austin comes at it with... Listen, they're both cerebral players and they both get it done differently. But just the way that Mitch approaches, you'd see the way he plays. I haven't seen a guy like that with the puck since McGillney was here, period. He's my comparison. And I don't know that, you know, Alex Mandrick, McGillney was capable of doing the things that Mitch was. I think we see, we watch a guy like Mitch Marner play and you forget how old he isn't.

And I know that the NHL is all about the younger player and all this sort of thing now, and that's all changed. I think when I started covering the team, there were eight players 30 or older, 32 or older. Now there's more too, but Marner is just, we always say bring to the edge of your seat. Well, he does that. Every time he gets the puck on his sticks,

you don't know what's going to happen. And yes, from that angle, I'm curious to see what happens with the contract situation. I think it's going to be difficult because I don't think there's Darren Ferris going into that should be looking for anything less than quote-unquote Austin Matthews money. Again, the Leafs afford that.

We'll have to see. But I know what you're getting at when you talk about possible captain material with him. It just comes at it in a different way than some of those other people we mentioned do. So with this plethora of riches that we just named four guys who would make reasonably good choices

for being captain of the Maple Leafs, you have that going on. What is it exactly like? Why have we been unable to advance? I feel like, I'm not going to say we've stalled because I remember how awful this team was like a mere, what is it, four years ago or whatever. Well, Babcock's first year.

PA Parenteau scored his 20th goal in game 82 in New Jersey and that led the Leafs that year. That was three years ago in April. So. Think about that. That's, yeah, three years ago in April. Three years old, because we've had the three first round. Yes, okay.

So, but then you could flip that coin and say, okay, three years in a row we've gone out in the first round. Right. Well, the first year against Washington, I don't think you can include in this conversation. The Leafs getting to the playoffs that quickly after what happened was exceptional the last two years i think the thinking on it might be different if you lose to the bruins

one year and another team the next and they were both seven game series they were both seven game series so you're not getting taken out in four or five games you're not getting outplayed in four or five games you're not getting outclassed in four or five games. The Boston Bruins have a core. It's one thing that I find interesting all the time, Mike, is the Leafs adding the players who have won. So you get Ron Hainsey, you get Jake Muzzin. The Bruins core won a cup together, although it was a while ago in 2011.

But Bergeron's still great. Arshon, David Krejci, I mean, Zdeno Chara. So they've won together. I think Tukaras was the backup to Tim Thomas that year but he was part of it so they have that experience together and I think that that you know that's not necessarily is carried the day for them against the Leafs but it's an obstacle to get

past but again it's and I think it's coming I know that like if we've mentioned Kyle Duvis has some some hurdles to get past with this salary cap now and what the Marner contract is going to mean for the Leafs going forward. But the pieces are there. When your pieces, and again, why hasn't it happened? Well, just remember how, I think the team has probably

progressed a lot quicker than a lot of us are thinking too. We are just halfway through Mike Babcock's eight-year contract, knowing that the first year was a lot of us are thinking too. We are just halfway through Mike Babcock's eight year contract, knowing that the first year was a complete and total write off. Right. We scorched the earth. And he, I mean, he was Babcock trying to instill

some things of players he knew that weren't going to be there anyway. So really that first year doesn't even count. I guess they, you know, they were able to, to instill some of the culture and atmosphere that there were going to be changes that way. Because it's funny, at the end of that first year, when they finished last,

the players could not, those who had a fairly good idea of returning, couldn't wait to get back, because they knew that they had turned a corner organizationally behind the bench. And I think we've seen that. Things I don't understand include the fire Babcock hashtag. I don't, I don't get these sorts of things.

People really sit down and look at how far this team has come and where it has the potential to go. We'll see. Now, having said that they go out in the first year or a year from our first round a year from now, that changes a bit. I feel like I said that sentence last year.

Like I think I said after we went out in seven to the Bruins, because I feel like I said that, like, well, you know, we got to get passed around next year. I think a lot of us thought that too, but it just, it's an interesting relationship with the GM because Kyle Dubas, of course, is very new at this. He's finding his way and he's dealing, I don't want to say dealing with because that brings up a negative

connotation, but he has a veteran coach behind the bench who knows one way, and it's intense and very intense, and I think it's like that, well, it is like that behind closed doors. I don't know if we need to be told that, but it's an interesting relationship, and I'm very curious to see where it goes from here.

Absolutely. Now, do you have any insight into who's as good as gone? For example, you know, Jake Gardner or Kadri. Like, who do you think's not coming back? Well, the Gardner situation, they'd love to have him back, but I just don't know where the money is there for him. And he knows, he knew what was coming.

He, you know, he's going to have that opportunity to test the open market, we think, and will be paid more than the Leafs could afford it. And as far, like a guy like, you know, Ron Ains paid more than the Leafs could afford it. And as far as, like, a guy like, you know, Ron Ains, again, if they could get him at something a little more inexpensive, being a free agent, I think they would do that, given the holes that they're going to have on the blue line,

Jake especially. Kadri's interesting, because I think, internally, he let a lot of them down with what he did early in the series against the Bruins. And with Nazem, we heard the same things at Locker Cleanup Day. We've heard before from him. Whether he gets a chance to prove these things in a uniform that has the Maple Leafs emblem on it,

I don't think you can say is a guarantee right now. And he's our, well, him and Gardner, I guess, are the last two guys from that game seven collapse. Yeah. A lot of the two longest serving current Leafs,

that's right. Woo. I guess we need to, are you of the belief we need to add another part or two to the blue line before we continue?

especially with what's coming now. Listen, I just watched the Marlies play twice in Cleveland last week and got a look at Rasmus Sandin.

This guy's going to be a player. So how far away is he? I don't know. Well, he could play next year. Oh, wow. Now, that would kind of buck the trend of what this Leafs team now likes to do with their prospects, which is let them, you know, grow and grow and grow under a guy, Sheldon Keefe,

who is going to be an NHL head coach very soon. It's worked for the most part with a lot of these players they've called up. Do you do that again with Sandin, even though you know what's coming hole-wise in the blue line? It'll probably depend a lot on what kind of camp he has with them. But I think he's a guy that's coming that's going to be a valuable part of that club coming. So, I don't know.

Even if there was some way, Mike, that they were going to be able to part of that club coming. So I don't know. Even if there was some way, Mike, that they were going to be able to hold on to Jake Gardner, there were going to have to be things done in the blue line that Kyle Dubas, I don't know how he'd get them done, but he'd have to do with Gardner gone for sure, definitely. I like the addition of Jake Muzzin. I know we, on our side, you kind of wonder, the only addition he makes is the deadline with Nick Patan. I like the addition of Jake Muzzin. I know we, on our side, you kind of wonder, you know,

the only addition he makes is the deadline with Nick McTain. Well, he did bring in quite a good defense in a month earlier. That's right. He didn't wait for the deadline for that deal. For sure. For sure. And if your crystal ball was operating correctly and you could see in the future.

I would like that to happen once. Just once. Once in my life. Just let it work once. Yes. Because, you know, we're all like, I think we're a patient once. Just once. Once in my life. Just let it work once. Yes. Because, you know, we're all like, I think we're a patient group. I'll be honest.

I think the fan base is a patient group. We were okay with the Shannon plan. We said scorch the earth. Right. And, you know, we were A-okay with everything. I think we're at a point now where we'd like a series win and we'd like to know that in the next two or three years we could win a cup.

But then I look at, I look at the NHL we have today and I see like Boston's a favorite, you know, maybe Thornton's going to get his first cup, but what the heck are the, is that the blues I see? And is that the Carolina Hurricanes I see? Like we're, we're better than that. Like, it just seems like parody is the name of the game. Like why aren't, it could be us. It could be, it could be next year.

We don't know. We talked about this off the hop on this topic, is that they know that they miss an opportunity, but I think this is what's coming in the National Hockey League. I mean, we saw a team last year knock on the door forever, go through all the trials and tribulations of losing. The Washington Capitals won the Stanley Cup. Right.

Do we see that this year with the San Jose Sharks? Right. It's quite possible. The Boston Bruins haven't had that type of heartache that the Sharks have had in the past, say, decade, if you will.

But it's one of those, I think that's what makes it so engaging and exciting. I know people compare it to the NBA where you kind of have an idea of what's coming in the National Hockey League.

You don't anymore in the playoffs. I think this season has been the epitome of that and why it is so painful for the Leaf fan base to know that this could have been done. I mean, the Vegas Knights were in a final

last year. In our lifetime, we've never been in the finals. No, but you know, and that's an oddity that all the luck in the world to the Seattle franchise coming. I just don't think we'll see that again. Law went right for Vegas last year, but that was pretty incredible.

I agree, but that whole notion that the St. Louis Blues, how recently were they in last place? Is that January? January 4th or 3rd. Even that, it's not quite the same story as, you know, an expansion team making the finals. Right. But it's kind of remarkable.

Well, you have this goaltender who toiled away in the minors for several years in in bennington and you call them up and look what happens and uh you know you don't uh like i said earlier you don't necessarily cheer in this in this game and that's what you do we do for a living but i'm happy to see a guy like tyler bozak and yes you know getting that sort of opportunity and uh maybe a little less carl gunnars thinks he wasn't around the Leafs as much as Tyler was going through some of those

painful experiences. But good for him to get to that. And again, like I said, I think this is the NHL now. You talked about it, parity. It's what the league wants. So even though we can sit here and say, well, the Leafs need to do A, B, and C, get in. The Boston Bruins aren't always going to be there.

The Boston Bruins will be a team that you beat at some point eventually it's gonna i think it's i think it's gonna happen so close twice they've got their guy in net i think that's very important right it's crucial to have frederick anderson doing what he does you have your core up front you have morgan riley on the blue line the core is there that's what nhl teams who could never get to that spot have the hardest time doing is getting that core and getting those good players they can build around. If you can then get

the players around them, the Zach Lymans, these players that can do these sorts of things for you and be good doing it. Travis Dermott's coming on the blue line, another guy. I know these guys are going to be injured to start, but the Leafs have that core. They're going to have them. Matthews is long- I know these guys are going to be injured to start, but the Leafs have that core. They're going to have them.

Matthews is long-term. Marner is going to be. It's coming. You know, something, it's going to keep getting better before there's a drop. Maybe there won't be a drop off. So quit it with your fire Babcock nonsense on Twitter. Drop that. That's very short-sighted.

Listen, the thing too, that was kind of, uh, a little bizarre for me was, was when, when Dubas had his, you know, the end of season availability and appeared to leave that door open. But earlier in that 20 minutes or so that we talked to him, he said, you know, when you judge a team over an 89 game schedule, our coaching

staff did a good job with this group. I'm paraphrasing, but that was more or less the quote. We, of course, you know, went and glommed on to him not making any guarantees,

but I think he just answered the question honestly and said, we're all under evaluation here. I don't think there was ever an idea that Mike Babcock

wasn't going to be back. Now I could talk Leafs with you for another hour or so, but I'm going to close just a brief little reality check about your industry

because I was, my friend of the show, Dave Schultz, who writes for the Global Mail. Dave's talking about people, I know we didn't get into people, other friends in the industry, but Dave's another superhuman being.

Well, you can always drop, remember I like it when guests drop names. Well, Schultz, you know what, you had Gary Joyce on recently. Some of the great times we had covering the World Junior together, especiallyultz, you know what? You had Gary Joyce on recently. Some of the great times we had covering the World Junior together,

especially in Europe, Kenny Campbell's another one. Just lifetime memories that I'll have until the day I'm gone. But it sounds like Schultz is taking a package. So there's a...

Well, it's big news. It's no secret. The Globe and Mail is... They do, I guess, they have the voluntary buyouts or whatever packages and then when it's I guess they have the voluntary buyouts or whatever, packages, and then they have the involuntary packages if they don't get enough of those

guys. So it looks like Schultz has taken one. Many years, you know, speaking of Simmons, him and Simmons go back to Calgary, right? With Duhacic and Howard Berger apparently. I think a bunch of those guys lived together at one point. I think Simmons and Schultz, they might have. I might be getting that wrong,. I think a bunch of those guys lived together at one point.

I think Simmons and Schultz, they might have. I might be getting that wrong, but I know a bunch of them did. Go to that first Simmons visit on Toronto Mic'd and he tells the story of how he inadvertently gets Berger fired from that gig. It's pretty fascinating. That's a great one. But all this is to say that your

industry is definitely shrinking and you're watching competitors like the Star and the Globe especially reducing their staff. And who knows if the Globe will even have a sports section when we talk like in a year from now when you come back to kick out the jams. I guess I'm curious, and it can't all be gunners, man. You can do one from each group. Sure.

Yeah, so mix that up, but we'll do that for sure. But I guess I'm curious your thoughts on that and how the sun is able to kind of, the sun seems to stay strong as a sports department. Like you guys do seem to be holding your own, all things considered, around you. Well, I think it's just the realization of what sports means to people in the city and the coverage of the Maple Leafs and the Raptors

and the Blue Jays. And we do a hell of a job covering the Argos as well. And I know that they don't have, you know, the Argos don't have the fan support in the building, but a lot of people watch on TV. And I know that, you know, that sort of thing does good numbers. Do they get clicks? That's always how you're judging them, right?

The Argos, the Canadian Football League, I think just does in general from my understanding in our paper and our papers across the country. I mean, you go to a game in Saskatchewan, it's like being at a Leaf game. Right. A Rough Riders game. But yeah, of course.

But anyway, it's difficult on the bigger picture, but I'm glad that we still have that, obviously that concentration of doing what we do. And we do have these opportunities to cover these teams properly and that's being on the road with them. And because the other thing too, I mentioned earlier, Mike, about the smaller, the scrums

now and that, with the way things are in Toronto, when you're in the Leaf dressing room on any, more on game days than that, so many people in there after the morning skate, you don't necessarily get the people you want to talk to because they're not available or for whatever reason, but on the road, you really have that and you have that one-on-one time and that

sort of thing. So I think that's so crucial. Amazing. And since you mentioned the practice facility, how come they changed the name of that place and didn't announce it anywhere? Like, does it matter? I don't know.

It's a weird one, right? I think it was right. It wasn't long before the Leafs were done, right? It was around the same time. I live so close to that place and didn't announce it anywhere? Like, does it matter? I don't know. It's a weird one, right? I think it was right. It wasn't long before the Leafs were done, right? It was around the same time. Yeah. Remember, I live so close to that place. I saw the sign go up. Yeah.

And it's now the Ford Center of Excellence. Right. But it's no, in public, including the website. Like I go to see, oh, was there a press release? Did they do it? There was nothing. And I even went back, because listen, you get emails from the corporate side of MLSC every so often.

Yeah. And you kind of see what they're about. It's like, okay, I don't need to read this. So I actually went back to see if there was one of them. Right.

I didn't think there was. No, I Googled the message. Yeah. And there were, anyway. But it happened. I saw the sign change.

I saw it too. And we were kind of, a bunch of us in the press box there that I'm still going to call it the MasterCard sign. We're wondering what do we refer to it now? But the Leafs themselves are still calling out the MCC and the sort of things so we never did get around to it. Bizarre, eh? Yeah, maybe we will next

season. I don't know. It just seems like you'd want to announce that kind of thing. Maybe they're going to do some big noise about it when the Leafs start their season or something. Could be. Yeah, something like that. Terry Koshan. Fantastic, man. Did you have a good time? I had a great time. And you will come back to kick out the champs? I would love to.

You got to now. So I know it's a long drive from Georgetown, but maybe we can tie it in with a Leafs practice. It's kitty corner, man. I can come down one day after practice. No problem. That's right. That's right.

And that brings us to the end of our 463rd show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Terry is at Kosh Toronto Sun. So K-O-S-H Toronto Sun. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer.

Propertyinthesix.com is at Raptors Devotee. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair is at Fast Time WJR. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Camp Turnasol is at Camp Turnasol. And Capadia LLP is at Capadia LLP.

See you on Wednesday when my guest is Maureen Holloway. ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ And your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away. Cause everything is rosy and green. Well, you've been under my skin for more than eight years. It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears. And I don't know what the future can hold or do For me and you

But I'm a much better man for having known you Oh, you know that's true because Everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow. Won't you be today?