Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - The Galleria Mall: Toronto Mike'd #788

Episode Date: January 20, 2021

Mike is joined by local artist and Galleria Mall expert Shari Kasman for this deep dive into the mall at Dufferin and Dupont that time forgot.

Welcome to episode 788 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department contact Barb for a free copy of her book it's Barb at CDN Technologies dot com Palma Pasta

enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville stickeru.com create custom stickers, labels, tattoos and decals for your home and your business. Ridley Funeral Home Pillars of the community

since 1921 and patrons like you. Visit Patreon.com slash Toronto Mike to become one today. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week to discuss the Galleria Mall in tremendous detail is Sherry Kasman. Welcome, Sherry.

Hi, how's it going? Good. How are you doing today? I'm all right. All right. It's Inaug Good. How are you doing today? I'm all right. It's Inauguration Day. Have you heard? I have heard. I have heard. Is there something streaming right now over the computer about it? Probably. Probably. I think what we're all hoping for today, so we're recording, it's about 11.06 in the morning here, and We're just hoping it's like uneventful. We just want it to be a smooth as they drew it on the board kind of day. We don't want any surprises, so to speak.

Yeah, agreed. Agreed. They'll pull it off without a hitch. Do you miss the days when the US presidency was more or less like a boring thing you could ignore on a day-to-day basis? Yes, absolutely. presidency was more or less like a boring thing you could ignore on a day-to-day basis yes absolutely yeah the boredom was was uh it was great this is too dramatic yeah it reminds me

of it reminds me of the the the rob ford era where like we were just like i was so grateful when like a boring old fuddy-duddy like john tory was the mayor and it was like we didn't have the day-to-day craziness that we've had during the Trump presidency. Yeah there's been a lot to talk about but it's nicer to have nothing to talk about really. Right well we have something to talk about because this is the episode Toronto didn't know it needed okay this is a very deep dive into the history of the Galleria shopping centre which by the way I didn't know it needed. Okay, this is a very deep dive into the history of the Galleria Shopping Centre, which by the way, I didn't know it was called that. I'm going to start with this. It's officially called the Galleria Shopping Centre, but I've always known it as the

Galleria Mall. Everyone has always known it as the Galleria Mall. I don't know, maybe for a couple years, they called it Shopping Centre, and then mall was just easier to say or something. But technically, a shopping center isn't a bunch of stores enclosed under one roof. Right. That's always a mall, right? Yeah, it's a mall. It's a definite mall. It was an error on part of whoever named the place. The public corrected it by calling it a mall. It's a definite mall. It was an error on part of whoever named the place. The public corrected it by calling it a mall. Well, there's the first

fun fact. So it's the Galleria Shopping Center, but henceforth we shall refer to it as the Galleria Mall. I do want to thank, and this is a quick aside is, I don't know how to search DMs in Twitter. Sherry, I don't know if you could help me

with this, but I don't have an iPhone. So I think that's an important detail. I have an Android device. And so going back, I think earlier this month, I had a great DM exchange on Twitter with a listener of Toronto Mic'd who tipped me off that you exist and that you wrote a book or you published a book about the Galleria Mall. And of course, as I prepared for this episode, I wanted to shout out this person who said, hey, there's somebody you could talk to about the Galleria Mall

because I speak of the Galleria Mall often on Toronto Mic'd because I worked there for five years in the early to mid nineties. So I want to thank this tweeter whose name I don't know because I have a million other DMs since then and I can't find. And unlike email where I could easily go into my Gmail and search for Galleria and I'd come up with this person in 10 seconds, I don't know how to search my Twitter DM. So I'm sorry to this person who tweeted at me and suggested this episode, but it was such a good suggestion that here it is happening now. I'd really like to know who that person is you better find it i will work on that tonight

i'm gonna just start okay maybe during the leaf game i'll do that uh one more personal note before we dive into the gallery of mall it's my son's 19th birthday today happy birthday to the son james so uh happy birthday j James uh just wanted to put that on the record I'm very proud of James he's uh he's at Laurier now in university and he's uh just become a wonderful man and I'm just so like proud of him and this is his 19th birthday and that's exciting to me so yes happy birthday to James now Sherry tell us right off the top yeah what makes you a Galleria Mall expert well I started taking a lot of pictures there um what 2010 or so and I just kept taking pictures there and I was really fascinated by it. So I did some research.

And because I did a lot of research, I'm an expert now. At one point, I thought maybe I would compile all these photos into a book. And then I just kept getting more fascinated by the neighborhood and by the Galleria. more fascinated by the neighborhood and by the Galleria. And it just kind of escalated and I made a book. Well, you know, we're always looking for experts on things. And I'm like I said, I, I don't know if I'm an expert on the Galleria Mall. I just love talking about it. And for a bunch of reasons we'll discuss shortly. But if you wrote a book on it, I think that's it. Like, I think there's two ways to be an expert in 2021 you either write a book or you start a podcast like you could have started the gallery of all podcast and then you'd be the go-to gallery of all expert yeah I don't

know if that would be it easier would that have been easier for me to do just run around with a microphone and say be on my podcast let's talk about the gallery at what do you know right because it's not like you could set up shop at the el amigo in the middle of the gallery a mall like okay so and talk to the the regular patrons uh who i i knew and loved okay so let's let's give a little 101 off the top uh and again i'll come and fill in with some some you know analysis here as like a guy who's like i said very i spent almost every day there for five years. I know this gallery mall well. But what makes, I guess, first of all, where's it located?

Go ahead. Step in there. I don't know what you did there for five years. I like to be mysterious. No. I was a grocery clerk at the Food City. Okay. And then at some point, I helped convert this food city into a price chopper. Right.

And then after the price chopper came this Freshco. Right. So this is the boring detail, but it was owned, that store that was a food city that became a price chopper. That's when Oshawa Foods, because my checks were signed when Oshawa foods because my my checks were signed by Oshawa foods and at some point Oshawa food was sold to Sobeys and Sobeys yes at some

point decided to convert the price chopper into a fresh coat and that's still there today right so where is the Galleria mall for those who are like what are you talking about Mike so Galleria mall is at the corner of Dufferin and DuPont in Toronto. And so that's on the West End, in the West End. And it's beside some train tracks just to the north. Or is it a set of train tracks? Like to the, I think maybe you're right. You're right.

But there's also. I'm definitely right. You're the expert. Yeah, I think maybe you're right. You're right. But there's also. I'm definitely right. You're the expert. Yeah, I'm an expert. Yeah, the train tracks are just to the north. And just to the south is a park that seems kind of invisible right now because it's, you know, it's hidden. You can't see it from the street. So there's a little park.

And. What's the name of this neighborhood? You know, we're all kind of all about neighborhoods in this city uh what is the official name of that neighborhood at dufferin and dupont wallace emerson you remember the community center wallace emerson community center of course yes of course yeah yeah i think you would call that neighborhood wallace emerson now if we're painting the picture, and this is a mall in transition, which we'll talk about, but there's a McDonald's in the parking lot. So I guess as you get closer to Dufferin, there's a McDonald's. And again, it's been a while, actually.

I hope the McDonald's is still there. You'll let me know. It's still there, yeah. And there's a gas station just to the north. Not anymore. No, no north no no no okay that's why you're here yeah yeah so they took that gas station out i don't know how many years ago maybe six or so years ago it used to be called how would you pronounce that gas station sunnies or sunnies oh sunnies yes uh but it's only one N. Yeah, one N.

Right. It's probably Sunnies. It's probably Sunnies. But I remember it was cheap gas. And I just assumed they were maybe watering down that gas or something. Yeah, could have been. But yeah, I was just not sure whether it was Sunnies or Sunnies. But yeah, that hasn't been there in some in some years now we know you took these photos

you said 2010 i guess and i i just want to write off the top just tell people that your book your photo book anyways is called galleria the mall that time forgot yeah but so that was the first book i made i made an abridged version later because it was a very popular book. The pictures in the book are from 2013 and 2014, kind of a year inside of that mall. And I'm sure it was the same for you in these photos. I've seen these photos. They look exactly like how I remembered it in the early to mid 90s. But I was, of course, that's pretty much how it looked since the mall opened right like you called it the time the mall that time forgot because this was

infamous or famous I suppose for being the mall that uh just simply never redesigned or read like never modernized it looks like it did when it opened in 1972. Yeah exactly exactly that brown color inside it's really striking. And then there was this green glow. There are no windows in the place. It's, uh, you can't see outside. So you don't know if time has progressed even since the seventies. It's yeah. Do you, do you remember, and tell me, was it there in 20? I'm sure it was when you took the photos, but the El Amigos in the middle? Oh, yeah. El Amigo was there until the end. It's the food counter in the center with a Mexican name,

didn't sell any Mexican food, and was run by Koreans. Was it the same in the 90s? Yeah, and that was our go-to coffee spot. So we would take turns, us grocery clerks in our food city smocks, we would take turns. Whose turn is it to buy coffees? And then we'd go to El Amigo and buy coffee. But absolutely right.

It was a Mexican name run by Koreans with nothing on the menu. I'm not sure where the name came from, but that was the place. And what we remember is that it seemed like there was a regular cast of characters that would kind of treat the Galleria Mall as their lounge. Yeah, it was a definite living room to a whole bunch of people. Seemed like it was primarily older men, Portuguese guys. They would just go there, sit in the middle on these wooden benches all day long. And was that the same in the 90s?

Oh, yeah. It's probably the same guys. Yeah, probably. They went from 80 years old to 110, 120. Absolutely the same. Now, I'm going to, like when you wrote the book, and of course you're the authority here, but do you remember, like when we talk about like the stores, especially the anchor stores of the Galleria Mall, do you have any idea what were the anchor stores when it opened in 1972?

Do you know? Yeah. So I, I saw the architectural drawings for the place because I was, you know, I was thinking, did someone actually intend for it to be just like this, this one level windowless space? And so I asked an architect friend and he said, you know, coincidentally, I just dug up the drawings because my firm is going was going to do the redo on the Pharma Plus to Rexall. So he sent me the drawings and those anchor stores are written on the architectural drawings. So it was Food City, Drug City. And then, I mean, it had been Zeller's later, but at the outset, it was Tower. It was Towers, right.

Yeah, Towers, that's right. Right. Now, you called it Drug City. Why do I remember it as Boots? Maybe Drug City was Boots, do you know? Because Boots was the, and this is, now, we're just going off my memory here, but i remember it and maybe this is after it was drug city i remember it as a boots that then then got converted into a pharma plus and it was a pharma plus when i was working at the food city and then of course rexall at some point yeah yeah i'm just looking to see if i put a picture of that in this book but i didn't but

yeah at the at the beginning and i remember it because i mean food city drug city that's kind of memorable right you know right yeah and now i'm just i guess i could do a bit of googling but boots uh i just distinctly remember this brand uh boots which is long gone now so they've never heard of bootsots. What's Boots? Boots, I believe it was a British company, like drugstore chain that Boots, like Drug City versus Boots. I'm wondering if it was like Drug City, then a Boots, then a Pharma Plus, then a Rexall. Like I'm wondering if that was sort of the chain of the success. You know, here on inauguration day day we'll talk about the succession here but uh boots was just this this franchise that was around in the uh it was definitely around when i was a young man in the uh you know 80s way back in the 80s i don't think boots may i don't think

it made its way into the 90s but at some point at the end of the 80s they were all just converted to pharma plus i believe as i recall yeah i don't know. I don't know about anything between Drug City and Pharma Plus. Okay, okay. So the boots is in my memory bank, and I could be wrong. That's funny. Maybe we can do a revision of the book if I find out I'm correct, and we can get back to it. Yes, absolutely.

What do you know about towers? Nothing. Okay, so go ahead. I have a memory i mean not a memory i have a guess and my guess is towers is like zellers but in before times i think you're exactly right like i definitely know again i think i've got a several years on you i think but uh i remember in the 80s a lot of towers and it was just your typical Zellers-like department store. So I don't know. I think maybe the Bay

bought towers and then the Bay converted the towers into Zellers. That might have been what went down there. I don't know. I don't know. I remember Byway. Oh. Could you be an expert on Byway? Because I'd have you back for that episode. I remember Byway. Could you be an expert on Byway?

Because I'd have you back for that episode. I remember the socks at Byway. At the corner of Eglinton and Dufferin, there was a Byway. Right now, it's a Shoppers. Do you remember? Did you grow up in Toronto? Yeah, I grew up in the bit west of you. But I definitely remember Byway very, very well.

In fact, I think I might be the expert on Byway now that I think about it. Okay, you can be the expert on Byway. Well, you can interview me for the Byway episode. Yes, perfect. Perfect. So what year does this Towers in the Galleria Mall become Zellers? I don't know. 1991. Are you looking on Wikipedia?

Yeah, that was on Wikipedia, that one. Okay. 1991. I knew that. I knew it. 1991. Are you looking on Wikipedia? Yeah, that was on Wikipedia. Okay. 1991. I knew that. I knew it. 1991. It was definitely a Zellers when I, so my years, I'm just to get, just to give us a frame of reference here. So my years for the Gallery and Mall were something like maybe 93 to 98, like around that era.

93 to 98, like around that era. Uh, and again, I'm a grocery clerk at the food city, which then I was a grocery clerk at the price chopper. And, uh, and then I just meant you spent a lot of time at the gallery mall. I'll share a couple of stories shortly here, but so you, you open, this thing opens in 1972 and it's a towers and it's a food city. Yeah. And you say it's a food city. Yeah. And you say it's a drug city. And of course you're the expert. We'll go with that. Uh,

what was the, okay. So I remember a PM Toronto's. Yes. What was that? Do you know? The gambling? Yeah.

With a horse where you'd go in there and all day drinking and horse race gambling. Right. And there was an inside that had it kind of was a fenced off area that was like a cafe but transported to the indoors it's this indoors brown cave right yeah like some people sorry i don't mean to interrupt you uh but i'll throw this tidbit down and then you can come back to that. But some people on Twitter and elsewhere have memories of this being a Don Cherry's, but I only knew it as a PM Toronto.

I also only knew it as PM Toronto. Do you think, does your architectural drawing suggest that that was a PM Toronto in 1972? All that was in there were the anchor stores. But my guess is no. It was very Italian and it was a multicultural mall. They had food from many different ethnicities and I don't think the all day drinking and horse race gambling was in the picture, but that's just a guess. It's not for certain. Do you have any inkling of why would the owners of this mall, the Galleria Mall, why is it that they never considered modernizing it? Because every other mall I know of, and I'm a West End guy, so I think of the Dufferin Mall, which we'll talk about in a moment.

But they did a huge upgrade, if you will. And the Cloverdale Mall in, if you go further west in Etobicoke, the Cloverdale Mall is a good example. They kind of reimagined it and kind of, they modernized it best they could. That's another mall, by the way, where old people just go there and treat it like their living room. So it's similar. But why did the gallery of malls just decide we're going to stay in 1972? Well, there had been some discussion about making upgrades, and I found drawings of these potential upgrades. You know, someone had drawn different colors in, I think this was in the 80s, different colors, and there was a carousel. Was there a carousel? I don't know. It's a little bit fuzzy now in my mind, but.

Not a carousel, I don't think, but there were definitely like, you'd ride those like, those, I don't know what they're called. Yeah yeah those for sure but but they're do you see this there's a there's a picture in this book yes of this kind of you know this was a potential they're drawings of potential ideas for a future and these potential ideas never happened because ultimately they decided that you know the mall's doing fine why put more money into it so they just kept it they just kept it like that and it's at some point and i don't know when this became the case i feel like this was the case when i was there in the mid to late 8 90s but at some point it became sort of like ironic, like an ironic,

I don't know what the word I'm looking for is, but it became sort of like so stuck in time. It became kind of cool. Like hipster cool. Maybe. I don't know. I maybe I was really fascinated by it and maybe other people were in the same way.

It just seemed very nostalgic. Fascinated by it. And maybe other people were in the same way. It just seemed very nostalgic. I grew up going to Yorkdale when Yorkdale was not today's Yorkdale. Right. It was a different Yorkdale. Well, you used to be allowed to go to Yorkdale if you made less than $250,000 a year. And now they check your T4 at the door, I think. Exactly. But Sherway Gardens is the same way, by the way. Exactly.

I haven't been. And I've never been to Cloverdale either. Oh, they got a great home hardware in Cloverdale. I feel like my next mall episode, I got to find the Cloverdale mall expert. So if any listeners know of a Cloverdale mall expert, that might be my next one. But this is the Galleria Mall episode. This might be a good time for me to play to play a little clip uh that kind of updates us on uh where we're at with the gallery

of mall so you're actually and i love this because we won't hear your name because it's visual but this clip i'm about to play opens with your yourself it's uh sherry casman that opens this clip which i think is amazing. So here, this is going to take a couple of minutes, but it's going to set the table nicely for us. When I showed up, I thought, wow, I really traveled back in time. This place is, you know,

from another era. That's how residents around the Annex and the Junction neighborhoods of Toronto have been describing the Galleria Mall for years. Yeah, and so every time someone came up with this brilliant idea to make a change, nothing happened. Some have described the Galleria Mall as being stuck in a time warp, with many of the first fixtures, paint and architecture remaining since it was built in 1972. For many, over the years, it was a community hub.

Good morning. But declining numbers to the mall and the opportunity for redevelopment means this landmark will be closing. The community wanted the retail to stay. Retail is not going away. It's changing. The intersection of Dufferin and DuPont will now become a mixed-use community with both residential, retail, and parks and recreation. Retail is evolving and moving, and with that, these malls and communities are as well.

That evolution is impacting malls across the GTA. Some cities are completely revamping malls with designs that focus on natural light. We'll bring this down now because they're moving on to other malls. But that clip, that voice we heard early in that clip, that sounds a lot like you, Sherry. That's definitely me. Yeah. Was that on City TV? Yes.

Yes. I remember that. I remember doing an interview outside of gallery and wall that you really are uh the expert because because i wasn't looking for clips of you i actually wanted to see a little news piece because i wanted to segue over into like what it's like today at the gallery and mall and i of course i'm well aware that some of the Galleria Mall has been demolished. And well, actually, let's get the update from the expert. If I were to go to Dufferin and DuPont today,

what's still there and what is gone? So they've demolished half of it. So half of it is leveled and dirt and bulldozers and that kind of thing. And then they made a wall. So they demolished half and they didn't leave it open. So it's like an open air shopping center. They made a new wall.

So they divided it and then they enclosed it and they put or they kept the shopping, the fresh coat and the rex all there's pet value what about td bank is that still there it's there yeah i tried to go there the other day and um i left because they told me to leave there were too many people there and so i left but yeah it's there it's there okay and in the td uh was it always i think i believe it was but it's been a td since 72 as far as you know right i don't know okay as far as i don't know but okay so to to basically that they kept uh that half that face is dufferin they kind of kept that so you can still go to fresh code today uh if you wish uh but the everything that's kind of like the zeller's part of course

zeller's been gone a while i guess that was a planet fitness yeah i uh what did they do with the planet fitness it's there it's in there somewhere okay but they moved it they moved it because they uh they demolished that whole section of the mall so yeah there's there are some things to do at the Galleria still and sometimes you'll see people sitting on those wooden benches at the Dufferin Street entrance because those are the only benches that are left wow and uh I've seen the uh I've seen the kind of the design drawings etc but it sounds like that that's going to be uh it won't resemble its current self if we were to you know come back in five years and take a peek at that mall yeah in that it's interesting because

in the early 80s city of toronto realized that that surface parking lot was a waste of space and so they did a study to see you know they counted cars going in and out of the lot. And they did this study and determined that, yes, that surface parking lot, it's, you know, it's not full. It's never full. They decided, oh, yeah, it is a waste of space. We could put housing on it. But then it's something that never happened. So finally there's housing, but it it's what eight towers or something i forgot

the specifics yeah it's something like that it's intense and it's it sounds like basically they got to shut all this down to demolish it and then build up and then retail will kind of go back in to that ground level of this complex yeah i imagine it'll be like everywhere else, a giant shopper's drug mart. And, you know, what else is there? Giant shopper's drug mart, a giant... Well, we'll see who gets dibs. It might have to be a giant Rexall. It might have to be that. But also, I'm thinking, here's my thought is, you know, because the reason Food City became a price chopper is because the Oshawa Foods people determined that the demographics of that neighborhood were such that they needed a no frills type store. So of course there was a big

difference. Prices were lower, but now you bag your own stuff. Now, you know, it's not as pretty and clean as the food city. Like there's just, there's, there's obvious differences between, I guess the equivalent would be like a no frills versus a Loblaws, right? There's a big difference there. So, I'm going to predict that Fresh Co. is gone. I'm going to predict what is it? IGA? Like, what is the whatever the, maybe Sobeys. Actually, that is Sobeys. What am I talking about?

Sobeys has Sobeys. I bet you it's going to be a Sobeys in there when they finish this redevelopment. That's just a prediction. Oh, isn't there a Sobeys down the street on DuPont? Oh, and you're near like Christie or near, uh, probably you're probably right. Maybe they have no idea. I forget. So maybe it will be a fresh coat.

It'll be a giant grocery store. What are your feelings Sherry? Uh, cause you took those photos and you, and maybe this is actually a good time because i should have done this earlier but if somebody's like i want to buy your book on the gallery mall where you got all these amazing pictures tell us right now where they should go to buy this book from you well all the stores are closed, but my book is available online. SherryKasman.com. And spell it because that, spell your name.

S-H-A-R-I-K-A-S-M-A-N at gmail.com. And it's available at some stores that are all closed right now. And it says on my website where they're available. And that first book, the bigger version, it's sold out, but there are copies that you can borrow from the library. Okay, cool. Again, that first 2018 one is Galleria, The Mall That Time Forgot. And then it sounds like you put together, what did you say? You put together Goodbye Galleria in 2019.

Exactly. So that's the pared down version. It doesn't have historical neighborhood information. It's just a little introduction and some great photos, fabulous Galleria photos. How do you feel knowing that this mall that time forgot uh is no more you say i mean part of it's still technically erect right now uh but i mean it won't be there for long how do you feel i think that it needs to be something else i think that it's had its time and it's, you know, something else should go there.

That parking lot is a waste of space. It's kind of sad, especially because it serves a lot of people in the neighborhood in a really great way, or it did. And I just hope that the future of it isn't too crazy. Even that parking lot is a throwback to a time when I was growing up in Toronto, especially downtown Toronto, it seemed to be the land of parking lots. Yeah. Now we've built, it's condo city, it really, there really were a lot of parking lots. Do you remember the parking lot by the Eaton Center that was multiple levels and you would drive around to go up? Yes, of course. Yes.

Yeah. Was that where, this is very, I don't know, I have vague memories. Is this where the Canadian Tire was? Yeah. And because the, I'm trying to think of, because I remember that's where the Canadian Tire was? Yeah. I'm trying to think of it because I remember that's where the movie theater was, right? I used to go to the Eden Center movie theater, and I feel like that's where the Canadian Tire was. Okay. I don't know.

I think you're right. I never drove, so I just remember I'd take the TTC down and I'd see it. But I think that's where it was. I think so. I don't know why this stayed in my memory, but it was kind of weird to have this, this multi-level parking lot going around and around in the middle of, right where the mall is in the middle of downtown.

Okay. Well, speaking of other malls, Dufferin Mall. Dufferin Mall. Now you're uh because of where you live i'm sure you're very familiar with the dufferin mall yeah so i've lived where i am at blora and lansdowne since 2008 but in 2005 i was living at um college and dover court so i was going to dufferin mall then and it was different than today's Dufferin Mall for sure well that's where going with this yeah tell us because that seems to me like an example of a mall or I think I definitely like we were always kind of compete they had a grocery store there was like a competition there but I feel like although it was never as bad as the Galleria Mall okay it was close the gap was smaller and then at, okay? It was close. The gap was smaller.

And then at some point, Duffer Mall said, forget this. We're going to throw some money at this and fix this up. And I feel like it really did become reimagined. No one would ever call it, and this term is terrible and we shouldn't use it, but no one would consider the Duffer Mall a ghetto mall, as they call it online. It's simply a vibrant mall with a lot of stuff in there like they they cleaned up their act uh that's sort of like the model i felt like gallery mall kind of could have followed but chose not to yeah it became a lot brighter a lot of you know more light inside

i think things really picked up when an h&m moved in there. And I forget what year, 2006 or 2007. And after that, it kind of just snowballed. And so, yeah, it used to be dingier, darker, just a little more depressing in there. Now, the big advantage it has, of course, is it's right on the subway line where you have to take the, was it the Dufferin 29 or you have to take, I don't know what they call it now but it used we used to

call it okay it used to be called the annette 4 and i know it's a lot now the dupont something i don't know 50 the dupont bus is very slow bus right it's not a bus no i forget what number it is but it's not great it might be i don't don't know. It's been a while since I, but it might be 50. Why do I think it's 50? That's, I don't know. But it is definitely the big advantage Dufferin Mall is it's right there on the subway line. That's true. I mean, the Galleria is on that same, you know, you could go shopping at the Dufferin Mall and then keep going on the 29 bus up to Galleria mall and then keep going to Yorkdale.

Oh, do the circuit, do the circuit. Quick story. That's a terrible story, but it's one of my memories is, um, and I, I was working again, I was working as a grocery clerk at a food city and I guess I was going out to get the buggies, but we know we had like a seniority thing. Like the junior guys would be, the older guys would say, Hey, go get the buggies you know we had a like a seniority thing like the junior guys would be the older guys would say hey go get the buggies that was like the job you didn't want and then you had to get some seniority so you didn't have to do it anymore and you could get some young kid to do it but i had to go collect the buggies from the parking lot and i witnessed like there was a i guess a guy a guy a man was walking in the parking lot and then another gentleman was driving and i guess almost hit the guy who was walking so a man was walking in the parking lot and then another gentleman was driving and I guess almost hit the guy who was walking.

So the guy who was walking cursed out the guy who was driving. And I watched, I was watching this kind of transpiring real time. And the guy who was driving puts his car in park, gets out of his car, opens his trunk, and takes out like a crowbar and starts smashing this other guy in the head. Okay. So it's a terrible story, but I'm witness to this. It's the first time I ever called 911. I went to the pay phones that were on the outside. I picked up the pay phone and I said, I'm outside the food city at the gallery mall, Dufferin and DuPont. And I'm right now witnessing a guy get his head beat,

bashed in by a guy of a crowbar. And they asked my name and stuff. Anyway, so this memory, this traumatic memory of the gallery mall parking lot in the mid nineties. There you go. Wanted to share that. That's a fantastic, terrible memory.

I'm sorry you had to witness that. Is that going to make a future book of yours? No, hopefully not. No, I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think I'm going to include that. You can include it in your Galleria Mall book. Well, let's talk a little more about, because you're, I mean, you're a self, you're an artist. Would you describe yourself? How would you describe yourself? Because I know you teach piano, etc. But would you consider yourself an artist? Yeah, I'm an artist and writer. And in addition to the Gallery of Mall project, which got you here on Toronto Mic'd, so it was a worthwhile endeavor.

Like, maybe share with us, because I do have something else I'm going to play and discuss with you that's like a Sherry Kasman fun fact. But what other projects would you like to tell the listenership about? What other projects? Um, I don't know. Last year I was involved with this beach in the West end called Bloordale

beach. Right. Tours of Bloordale beach 2020. Yeah. So yeah, I did tours there. That was fun was fun um so that's uh okay but what is that like what the heck is that tours did you visit no i just i was uh looking at your website and i learned something so it's um i don't know if you remember there was a school at the corner of brock and croatia street and that was demolished because there's going to be this huge development at Dufferin and Bloor as well. And they're getting rid of all of the schools and building, you know, towers and that kind of stuff. So this, this one school was already

demolished and so nothing was there and there was a fence around it. So you couldn't take a shortcut like before. And then a friend started taking these fences down and we made a beach there. I mean, we we made beach signs. And so then it became a beach. And then I I put I i don't know there was a sea turtle nesting area there are all kinds of things at this beach it was great wow and okay cool and then you mentioned you know signs so this is a natural segue i'm going to play a little

song and then ask you a question about it so here's a little bit of kiwi Junior. Cooler returns. Super Bowl Sunday 2020 I did not feel well Leaving the hotel Said a long goodbye I did not feel well leaving the hotel. Said a long goodbye to a big dollar bill. See you working at the reading of the will. Sherwood Forest, Ranger with tires.

Falconer's complex and And diners on fire It's not fair to me Strung out on the back of your HEV Throwing dead birds into the air Singing howdy neighbors How do you like my new ride? Now I can see that after spending some time apart You know what? This is actually a very cool song by a great band.

This is Cooler Returns by Kiwi Jr. I think it sounds great. But please tell us how you're involved with this band and particularly this song and the album that this song appeared on. Well, the guys asked me to paint some signs that they put on the cover of their album and their album comes out this friday um and then they ended up using my signs and their music video that music video and then their more recent music video as well. And, uh,

yeah, we're going to make a display at soundscapes. Wow. That's cool. That's very cool. And the timing is great. Cause I didn't, so the album comes out Friday.

Uh, and this song, which if people go to YouTube right now and they go find the music video for the track that we're listening to now, which is called cooler returns. Your, your signage is all over this video. Yeah, or I think the other tune is called Waiting in Line.

There are a lot of signs in that. They're running around Toronto with signs that say Kiwi Junior that I painted. Okay, so how did they know to approach you? Are you friends with the band, or how did they know to approach you? Like, are you friends with the band or did they, how did they know to approach you? They're this, the lead guy, Jeremy, he was familiar with some of the things I was doing,

Galleria Mall and the beach and other stuff. And he just thought I might be a good person to work on, on the cover of the record with them oh very cool and it could have been a you know a shitty band and a crappy song and you got yourself a great band and a great song like yeah and their albums on sub pop and yeah yeah kiwi junior good for you i think that's super cool super cool now sherry um this is COVID times. We're doing this on Zoom. At some point, I hope I can actually, you know, meet you. Yeah, because normally, like, I'll be honest, if it wasn't COVID times, I would record this in person.

And this is where I tease you of all the things you could have got, but I will try to, you know, get this to you at some point. But had you, this is terrible. I almost feel like when I do this, I'm'm like don't tell them what they're not getting but if you were here i would be happily giving you a uh a fresh case of uh a sick actually it's an eight pack now an eight pack of great lakes beer that's local fresh craft beer they're in a south etobicoke institution so i gotta get you some glb when things are great. Thank you.

Thank you for not giving me beer. I know, but I will try to make this. I will try to get this to you. I know it sounds terrible. Palma pasta. We'd love to give you a lasagna, a frozen lasagna.

There's a option, vegetarian option or meat option. If that's your preference. Thank you, Palma pasta for your support. I have like, I know you're the signage person, option or meat option if that's your preference uh thank you palma pasta for your support i have like i know you're the signage person but i have uh great stickers from sticker you.com they're a great sponsor and i would love to get you a toronto mic sticker from sticker you i have hand sanitizer

that comes in handy right now uh from ridley funeral home they're uh pillars of the community since 1921 they're great people here in New Toronto, which is a little bit west of Mimico. And last but not least, this is important to anyone out there who is responsible for a network of computers. Typically, it's your work network. You would definitely benefit from outsourcing your IT to CDN Technologies. I urge you to have a conversation with Barb Paluskiewicz at CDN Technologies. You can write her now and tell her Mike sent you and ask her for a free copy of her book. It's called IT Scams, and you can write Barb, barb at cdntechnologies.com.

Tell her, again, Mike sent you. And Sherry, I'm going to close with some, I'm going to read this quote. I think this is amazing because the founder and the creative director of Spacing, Matthew Blackett, this is what he said about your Galleria Mall book.

So I'm just going to read this, okay? The rise and fall of Galleria Mall mirrors the rapid development of Toronto. With grace, humor, and nostalgia, Sherry Kasman's homage to Galleria Mall reminds us the spaces in which malls occupy can be more than just a place to consume goods. Community, friendships, and culture can blossom. Too often, Toronto plows through its past. Thanks to Kazman, this book will not let the Galleria be forgotten. So I just want to thank you. Now, that's the end of that quote.

Now, this is Mike's quote. Thank you for keeping the memories of the Galleria Mall alive. I shared one very bad memory, but I have so many fantastic memories of the gallery mall alive. I have, I shared one very bad memory, but I have so many like fantastic memories of that place. And part of the charm, I like to think part of the charm was that we knew we were in this mall that thought it was in 1972. And there was something about that that seemed kind of quirky and fun. Well, you're very welcome for this book of memories. Yeah, it was, it's nice because, I mean, every town seems to have one of these stuck in the past malls or, you know, they're scattered around North America and, you know, they're gonna, I don't know, are they gonna all

disappear? Yeah, I think so. It's kind of nice to have you know they're talking about getting rid of the sky dome they are plowing everything down it is kind of sad you know it's no joke that whenever something comes down so i don't live far from this mr christy factory that was kind of famous for the the smell like you would basically it's like park lawn in lakeshore and you could smell like it's almost like that smellwn in Lakeshore and you could smell like, it's almost like that smell you get at Sterling when you smell

the Nestle Chocolate Factory, but you get the smell from the Mr. Christie Bakery or factory or whatever. And they have this kind of famous water tower there for Mr. Christie. And I mean, this is going back now several years,

but I remember they're like, yeah, we're gonna, this is coming down. And we were like, oh no, it's coming down. And we all knew what was going up. Like, it's not like we had to guess what will replace the uh mr christie like we all knew condos were coming and now that area is barely recognizable with all the condos there but i mean toronto uh let's there's just condos everywhere right like i think

it's anything that's not you know and sometimes as I learned this week, even if it's a heritage site, it might come down. Yeah, I don't know. People try to get around rules and there are way too many condos and so much development going on. It's ridiculous. It's going to be all constructed. We're going to be surrounded by construction. Well, Honest Ed's is a good example, right? Like, right like i mean that whole look what's happened on yeah yeah it's nice to have those places sam you know sam the record man yeah i think yeah ryerson i think gobbled that up but uh

yeah they're so they're so toronto you know they make toronto Toronto Toronto so what happens when all these uh things that made Toronto Toronto are gone and it's all just like uh you know franchises big box stores and like you said the big shoppers that go in like I mean the run of me theater I'm just gonna use this as a good example in the west end of Toronto there's the run of me theater it's like run of me and bluer and I used to go see movies there as a kid it's a very old it's very it's a heritage site I believe it's protected but it when the shoppers and it's not the shoppers let me get this right chapters okay so yeah the bookstore yeah chapters went in there but they did the most amazing job of like restoring its beauty and stuff and it was like okay this might be the future like if you could

put the modern stuff in the old stuff but keep preserve the beauty of the old maybe that's the balance we need to kind of strike i'm not saying they should have done at the gallery of mall because it's from 1972 not you know 1872 but uh i think if we can find a balance to preserve and still keep things um you know progressing yeah i think that would be wise. I mean, that particular theater had a lot of very gorgeous details. And it was nice how the bookstore when you would go in there, it seemed like, you know, you could envision how it could have how it would have been a theater. Right, right. And now now, of course, that's a shoppers, but they still did a good job. In fact, it looks more like the old theater it was

than i remember it looking when it was actually a movie theater like i think they restored it you know to a point where it's yeah it still looks gorgeous in there you just buy your like toilet paper in there yeah um i mean with the galleria and other places the future you know the future plans could include some element from the Galleria that is kind of a callback maybe those low art maybe there's a low arched ceiling with lights that that give off a strange green glow in just one one small corner or something like that you know I love that idea I almost it got stuck in that spot where it's like, oh, it's old, but it's not old enough. It's almost like there's that period of time where, oh, 1972, we're not protecting this thing from 72. But I like that idea. Like, just keep like one room off the lobby or something with the original brown and green tones or whatever. Yeah, those tiles or even the benches, you know? Right. And maybe allow the old Portuguese guys to just come and go as they please.

And maybe they won't know the difference. Yeah. I mean, they should get priority, whatever happens there. They should be allowed to do their thing and hang out with their buddies. Yeah. I think that really what we're learning is we need to preserve the elderly Portuguese gentleman from Dufferin and DuPont. But Sherry Kasman, honestly,

I had this idea. Let's do a Gallery of Mall episode. I said, I need an expert. Somebody on Twitter suggested you. I will find out who that was to thank them properly. But you were great. I really enjoyed this.

Thanks so much. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Nice chatting with you. And that, that brings us to the end of our 788th show you can follow me on twitter i'm at toronto mike sherry remind us how can people reach out to Website is SherryKasman. It's www.SherryKasman.com. And that's S-H-A-R-I-K-A-S-M-A-N. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer on Twitter

and Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies and Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service

to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.