Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - The Guess Who #DeepDive: Toronto Mike'd #1139

Episode Date: October 27, 2022

In this 1139th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with the author of Wheatfield Empire: The Listener's Guide to The Guess Who, Robert Lawson, about all things The Guess Who. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Yes, We Are Open, The Advantaged Investor, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 1139 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals. Palma Pasta. Fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees. The Yes, We Are Open podcast.

A Moneris podcast production. The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada. RecycleMyElectronics.ca. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. And Canna Cabana, the lowest prices on cannabis, guaranteed. Joining me today, making his Toronto Mike debut, to dive deep into the Guess Who's history, is Robert Lawson. Welcome, Robert.

Hey, Mike. Hey, how was that for an intro? I was going to do my Bob Elliott, Robert, but I don't have those pipes but good to meet you man yeah it's great to be here I watch it all the time I was looking for the tree out front

well you're going to be taking a photo in front of that tree and that will haunt you forever because until your dying days shout out to Ridley Funeral Home when people go to Google Images and they put in Robert Lawson guess who or whatever they're going to see that photo we take

so are you ready to look handsome? I needed more warning. I like your hat. Oh, yes, GLB. Yeah, Great Lakes Brewery. So did you buy it for this special occasion or are you already a fan of GLB? No, I'm a big fan of GLB.

During lockdown, breweries like GLB and Leftfield were keeping me hydrated. I'm a big fan of the stuff that they do and some great people over there. Tyler and Sharla and Nick. All those guys. They do a great job. Troy, I know

you're watching. You know your GLB history. Lackey and the Bullet family, and you're going to leave here with some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes. It might not make it home. Yeah, it wouldn't be the first time. Shout out to Mark

Weisblot and his lakefront brews. Okay, a little housekeeping. So, I've kept you waiting down here because I just got back from Twitter Canada, where I was invited to a breakfast so nice early ride to the Twitter Canada HQ

and I just want to say thank you to whoever gave me that invitation I'll keep that mysterious people can connect dots if they want but it was great to be there and it was honestly a wonderful ride on the waterfront this morning. But I got back in time for you, Robert.

Today's episode is a very, very deep dive into the history of the Guess Who. I've wanted to do this for a while, and you, my friend, are the expert, the subject matter expert. What makes you a Guess Who subject matter expert? I've just been a lifelong fan and grew up with their stuff um i'm kind of a pretty big music geek anyway so reading liner notes and studying about music and you know i i was running a website for a long time with album reviews and concert reviews what website was that this side of the tracks yeah ca i know okay dude so it's exciting to meet you forget the guess who thing.

That's awesome. Like in those, you know, heady days I've been, you know, blogging for a long time and it seemed like a much smaller world for, uh, back,

back then. And, and it's, uh, that was awesome. So the site was going, I mean, the site's still up.

I just don't, uh, updated that often now that I started writing books, but it sort of evolved from doing album reviews and concert reviews to actually writing books and writing books about groups that I already know quite a bit about and I already have enough kind of raw information that I can go forward with one so the guess who is like in my DNA right um it was just a natural fit and the name of your book because people are going to hear this episode and they're going to have a guess who fever. And we'll talk about the current iteration. Shout out to FOTM Sass Jordan. But this book is called Wheatfield Empire, The Listener's Guide to the Guess Who?

Robert Lawson, you are the subject matter expert. I'm just opening the book right now for those other listening. And OK, cool.'s some cool bookmarks I got here. Thanks, bud. Awesome. Okay. So a little more housekeeping and then a fun fact about you that I dug up. But I want to say shout out to FOTM Roddy Colmer, who gave me a pass to check out Ron Hawkins from Lowest of the Low.

He was at the El Macombo, the smaller room that you get on the street level. Great acoustics. It was a great night. Not only was Ron Hawkins awesome, but Cassie DeSilva was great. The band Altered by Mom. You ever heard about Altered by Mom?

I don't know. You're not alone. They're up and coming and they were fantastic so i'm going to get and they're friends of uh fotm sky wallace but i'm gonna get altered by mom on toronto mic they were they were truly fab but these bands you know lowest of the low altered by mom you know they're all fine and dandy but it all kind of begins with the guess who so before we start kicking out jams and talking guess who, and I have a few notes from FOTMs on the subject,

I have another jam for you. This is for you, Robert. Robert. life and what your lift take a chance and face the wind open road and a road that's hit brand new life around the band there were times you would sing to me buddy I lost a dream or two

found a train and at the end was you alright why am I singing give me a clue why the heck am I playing the Who's the Boss theme song? That's something. Vanessa's laughing out there somewhere. All my friends are.

Who's the Boss is like my favorite show of all time. So do you remember the context? Okay. So I tweeted about Who's the Boss. I think we were talking about, I'm trying to remember now, there's a name drop in an episode of The Simpsons, and the actor played Tony's father-in-law. Oh, Jimmy Coco.

Yeah. Right. He played Tony's father-in-law, Nick Milano. Right. Who's a... Right, right, right, right, right. So, yeah, Milano was funny because Who's a... Right. Right. Right, right, right.

So, yeah, Milano was funny because that's the actress's name who played Samantha Maselli. But okay. So, I tweeted about it and you said that Who's the Boss was your favorite show. And I mean, I watched,

I will say, I watched a lot. I watched a lot of Who's the Boss, a lot of Growing Pains. Like, they were in syndication and I'd catch them all the time because we're similar vintage. Was Tony safe at the plate in the opening credits to who's the boss that big headfirst dive into home plate is he safer out well actually i would i think what's most important about that clip is that they time it to the lyric i lost a dreamer too so you think it's that when he's injured

himself when he was playing for the cards, but actually that's from an episode. It was just like a charity game that they were playing, so they're kind of making just a... They're fudging with the facts there a little bit, but I can do an hour easily on Boss. That's not a problem. Okay, who would then tell me, definitively for the record, who was the boss?

Who's the boss? Angela Bauer or Tony Maselli? Tony, yeah, Tony... Maselli. Maselli, right, yeah. Tony Maselli or Angela Bauer, for the record,

before we get into the guess who. The boss is actually Mona. Whoa, sexy Mona, who taught us that, like Golden Girls style, you can be older in age and you can still have a pumped up sex drive.

Mona Robinson, I would say she's actually the boss. Shout out to the late, great Mona. Yeah, that's great. Okay. Love talking. When I do my Who's the Boss deep dive, you'll be first on my list and we'll get you back here. It could be a short list. Oh, I even have this closing music.

Oh, look, I can fully load it here. Okay, I'll bring it down. I have a lovely note here before I begin from Brad Jones. Brad Jones is the funeral director at Ridley Funeral Home. In fact, we're recording a new episode of his podcast at 5 p.m. today. So I'll be seeing Brad today. He writes, I will always remember my first Guess Who album I got for Christmas. The best of the guess who was a gift from my grandmother

and she bought it by mistake. I was a who fan and when she went to the store and asked for the who, I guess, but I guess she said, I guess who? I guess who? They said, what are you looking for? She said, I guess who? And then, of course, they gave her

the guess who greatest hits. So he, uh, got that as a gift instead of the who, but he said his disappointment, uh, with initially he was disappointed, but he listened and he loved that album pretty fast.

I wonder how many people discovered the guess who, cause they're looking for the who. I don't know. That's, uh, he's got a pretty righteous grandmother though, hooked them up like that, even if it was by accident. Yeah, no, it's a, that's a, that's a good grandma who's, who's got a pretty righteous grandmother, though, who hooked him up like that, even if it was by accident.

Yeah, no, that's a good grandma who's doing that. Okay, you've sent in a jam sort of like to guide us on this journey, but I actually picked the first jam because this is where I think it all begins, really. But let me play a bit of this, and then we'll talk about the origin of the Guest Hill. the gas hill. When you move in the right up close to me That's when I get the chills all over me Quivers down my backbone I got the shakes in my thigh bone I got the shivers in my knee bone

Shaking all over All right, kind of an infamous story, but who are we listening to? Who is this credited to, this jam? Well, it is Chad Allen and the Reflections, Chad Allen and the Expressions. They went through a bunch of different names, but by the time it was released,

they were known, or they were also called the Guess Who, even with a question mark, with trying to be mysterious of who could actually be in this group. Who are they? Are they British in origin? Are they a bunch of different guys from different British bands?

Instead of, no, they're a bunch of young guys in Winnipeg, Manitoba. At the time, I understand, you know, Canadian bands would typically cover an American hit. Like, this would be the move for a Canadian band at this time. And somebody was connected to England and would get the imports, and then that's why this is a cover of a British hit. Right. So the Guess Who, or the Chad Allen version of the Guess Who, they would play, there was a circuit in Winnipeg at the time

where bands would play like high school dances and community clubs. They don't really have bars and clubs like that for bands, but they had these community centers where teenagers would go to dance and listen to music. So the guys in the Guess Who had a bit of a step up in that they were getting these tapes from England of British albums before they were released in Canada, especially in Winnipeg. So they would learn all these cover songs by British bands

and play them in their sets when they're playing these community centers. So there's actually a lot of people in Winnipeg who grew up as kids who heard Beatles songs first by these guys because those Beatles records weren't as easily available. This jam, I'll tell you, I'm sure there's

many Canadians who think this is a Guess Who original shaking all over. Who don't realize it's a cover of a British hit. They really make it their own. I mean, there's a lot of different versions. Their version's better, by the way, to my ears. It's excellent. It's excellent.

Now, Bob Ashley on piano does a great job on it. The vocal is terrific. It's kind of like ground zero for Canadian pop and rock music, which is probably why it's the title of, you know, it's been used for different Canadian documentaries. And it's definitely the title of at least two books about Canadian music. Okay.

Did you consider it as a title for your book? You went with Wheatfield Empire, but did you consider Shaken All Over, The Listener's Guide to the Guess Who? I didn't. I like my book titles to be a little bit more original. So I would never just take an album or a song title. So this one combines. My wife actually

came out with this title. Okay, shout out to Vanessa. Absolutely. And by the way, I wasn't on the Pirate Stream for the first several minutes, so everybody who's watching the Pirate Stream live.torontomic.com is going to have to actually listen to the podcast I drop later because you have to hear the Who's the Boss

chat. We lost the Who's the Boss chatter, didn't make it to the live stream, boss chat we lost the who's the who's the boss chatter didn't make it to the live stream but now we are live on the live i just checked it out uh hello to dale cadeau who's watching in bc okay so i'm gonna treat this episode like we only have like the listenership has a casual understanding of the guess who so there'll be a lot of 101 questions but the first big question i have because i know know the Guess Who. Okay, Burton Cumming, you got, you know, we know Bachman, Randy Bachman, but who the hell is Chad Allen? Well, Chad Allen's the original vocalist, and he played rhythm guitar,

and he's one of the guys who started it. So that's the beginning of the Guess Who. Burton doesn't come in until a little bit later. Okay, so at this point, that voice we hear belongs to Chad Allen. That's right, yeah. So, okay. And one last thought on that. So I think the tale goes, and you'll tell me if I got it wrong here,

but they were trying to tease like radio people and stuff, or they were trying to tease the public by instead of calling it on the 45 single, instead of saying Chad Allen and the expressions or whatever, they would put uh by guess who of a question mark which was meant to be playful like you have to right you know you don't we're not going to tell you this is a you know a prairie band this might be a british band or whatever american band uh guess who this is from and that name just sticks people just assume the name of the band is the Guess Who. That's right.

It was never actually their name. It just kind of came because of this weird publicity stunt of not really saying who they are. So it's kind of a backwards way for a band to get a name. It worked. It worked. And I guess it didn't hurt that there was a very successful British band called The Who.

Right. And that's why the great the great brad jones ended up with the greatest hits because uh sure okay so the guess who comes up a lot on toronto mike because we talk about you know the heyday of like 90s canadian bands a lot of listeners agree with me that the 90s rock can Canadian explosion was pretty damn fine. Like, this is music I still listen to. But then you go back and you'll hear like, oh, prior to that explosion, like it was embarrassing to say you were Canadian.

The Canadian music scene was a bit embarrassing. And then you talk about like, when did Canadian rock and roll get the respect it now deserves? And it always sort of starts with the guess who like this is canada's original rock and roll superstars they're definitely the first canadian band to have that level of international uh success that that didn't really exist before them so you know probably somebody would have come along and and had that kind of success maybe but you but we don't know that.

They're definitely first. They're first out of the block. Okay, so we got Chad Allen. Now, can you name the original lineup, or at least name the lineup we hear on Shakin' All Over? Do you have that? Well, so, yes. So it's Chad on lead vocals, Randy Bachman's on guitar, Bob Ashley on piano, Jim Cale on bass, and Gary Peterson on drums.

So at a certain point, Bob Ashley leaves. He leaves the band, and he's replaced by this young teenage punk, Burton Cummings, who was already pretty notorious in Winnipeg for something he did at the Winnipeg for some, uh, something he did at the Winnipeg arena. Ooh. What did he do? What did he do?

His band, the Devrons, uh, who are a great, great band. I mean, their, their, their stuff really needs some sort of an official release. I keep trying to bug Burton. The Devrons? The Devrons. Okay.

That's his, his first group. Great, great band. Um, really some good stuff. So the Devrons were the opening act at Winnipeg arena, of course, home of the Winnipeg jets and this punk upstart Burton Cummings gets on the rented

piano, uh, with his like beetle boots and scuffs the hell out of the top of it. So it was kind of a, you know, controversial thing for a young guy to do. So he replaces Bob Ashley as the piano player.

And that gets a little confusing because certain people out there, like Randy Bachman, often say that Burton replaced Chad Allen as the lead vocalist. And that's actually not true. There's a point, well, that he replaced the piano player. Right, right, right. So he comes in the band as a piano player, and Chad Allen's still lead vocals.

That's right, and then they start swapping lead vocals a little bit, so Burton is doing some of the more rock kind of stuff, some animals covers, and if they do a stone song or anything like that, and eventually Chad kind of sees the writing on the wall, and he leaves. But Burton definitely never, I think even in one of Randy's books, he says that Chad left

and then we didn't know what to do and we didn't have a singer. So then we got this Burton and that's not actually true. They were in the same, they were in the band at the same time. All right. And again, on this journey,

as we dive deep into the Guess Who, we've got, you've selected, and again, you gave me some hits and some more obscure tracks and like an idiot, I've chosen to play the hits. Okay've got, you've selected, and again, you gave me some hits and some more obscure tracks, and like an idiot, I've chosen to play the hits, okay? So give them the hits. Nobody will complain.

Here's one. Let's talk more about the band after we listen to this. These eyes Cry every night For you These arms Long to hold you again The hurting's on me, yeah

And I will never be free, no, my baby, no, no You gave a promise to me, yeah You broke it, you broke it, oh, no What does it say? I keep waiting to hear Maestro Fresh West come in. These eyes We're going to wait for the chorus here. What does it say? I keep waiting to hear Maestro Fresh West come in. We're going to wait for the chorus here. Woo! and pretend But that's on me, yeah And I will never be free, no, no, no

You took the vow with me, yeah And you spoke it And you spoke it, yeah These eyes Are crying These eyes have seen a lot of love But they're never gonna see another one Like I had with you

These eyes Are crying These eyes have seen a lot of love But they're never gonna see another one like I had with you Okay, Robert, we're off and running here now. What album does These Eyes appear on? It's on, like, every Canadian greatest hits album of all time. But, no, it's from Wheatfield Soul,

so that's sort of what a lot of people consider the real beginning of the Guess Who, even though I think those early Chad Allen albums, I consider those Guess Who as well. But of what we would consider the classic era of the Guess Who starts with the Wheatfield Soul album. And These Eyes, obviously a huge hit. You know, the arrangements on that are really great,

that it starts with just this, you know, real simple guitar thing. Jim Cale's bass on this song is one of my favorites. And then as it builds and you get these strings building and building and then that French horn comes in and just keeps going and going. It's fantastic. Love it. No, I love it. And I joked during the song, I joked that I'm waiting for Maestro to come in because I sort of have been rewired, actually.

Like now I hear that and I'm like, Maestro's coming in next. But that just tells you, like to me it's iconic it's a sing-along uh awesome jam these eyes and now we're hearing burden on vocals and it's hard to imagine he wasn't the original lead singer yeah once he came into his own as the lead vocalist of the band things also really took off so as much as i love ch Chad Allen, I love that early era. Once Burton really takes over, that's when they really hit their stride. By the way, great note I do have from the Burton Cummings.

Oh, this is exciting. He actually, and this I'm quoting Burton right now. And this is regarding your book, Robert. Wheatfield Empire, The Listener's Guide to the Guess Who. And anyone who wants to learn more about the Guess Who, this is the book to buy. This book will verify a lot of the facts that have heretofore just been rumors.

True fans of the music will find this more than interesting. Praise from Caesar! Burton was a great contributor. I interviewed him at length, and his memory and his knowledge of his own history are pretty good for a guy, you know, turning 75 this year. There was a few things where if he didn't remember something, he would just say he doesn't remember,

which is fine, as opposed to, you know, making things up. and since i'm just going to do one more quote about your book and then i'm going to pester you with more annoying guess who questions but uh fotm fellow fotm because you robert you're now an fotm welcome to the family dave badini right it's, I'm going to read Dave's quote, okay? If you love The Guess Who, as I do, you will love this book. Mr. Lawson has carefully assembled a prosaic journey through the life, the prototypical life, I think, of one of the first Canadian bands, unafraid of the power of their vision at a time when that wasn't so much of a thing here.

Cooling in the colonial shadows of the UK and the USA, enjoy the ride. And Bedini, great singer, songwriter, real statics, of course, but also a fantastic author. Yeah, I've known Dave for quite a while just from being a real statics nut. And I used to see them tons. I've seen the real statics more than any other band, actually.

So I was fairly obsessed with them in the 90s. Do you subscribe to the West End Phoenix? I don't, and I really need to correct that. Well, whereabouts do you live? I live at Bathurst and Eglinton. Yeah, you know, you should be subscribing. Come on. I'm surprised Bedini hasn't given you a discount code

and said, get in there, buddy. No, I'll pay full amount. I owe him at least that much. So when this album drops, we're talking 1969, right, for Wheatfield Soul? Yeah. So commercially, how does Wheatfield Soul do? I'm curious because I'm too young to remember the late 60s.

How is These Eyes received in Canadian radio? These Eyes was number one in numerous territories. And like I said, this really kicks things off where they start getting... I mean, they had success with Shakin' All Over. That brought them to the States to record their second album in New York. But once the Burton Cummings era is in full swing,

that's when things start moving at a really fast clip. And they're doing, you know, they're really, we're talking about like an eight to 10 year period where putting out an album, you know, every eight months or something, packed with hits, a lot of touring tv appearances they're really busy uh before i forget shaken all over was originally by johnny kid and the pirates and that's a british band uh if you're unfamiliar you know it's funny we talk about like earlier days of rock and roll and uh for a period of time if if you were on Twitter yesterday, Jerry Lee Lewis was dead, okay?

This was reported. The not-so-secret FOTM DM group was mourning the loss of Jerry Lee Lewis. And then TMZ, as I call them, corrected themselves and said, oops, we screwed up again. So Jerry Lee Lewis is still alive, just for the record. Possibly not for long though because i know that doesn't sound very well no he's hopefully not he's late 80s and i think he's been pretty uh pretty pretty sick for a while so it wouldn't be a surprise to hear jerry lee lewis

passed away i mean the same thing happened with tom petty it was announced that he had passed away his daughter went on social media and said no you know don't you know stop saying this stuff and then it turned out actually ron james dio the exact same thing happened so i think it's when somebody's almost ready to go and they're sort of getting the troops together to figure out how to you know what happened to recently uh wally cleaver tony dow like like oh he's dead and it's like no not dead and then like And then a couple hours later, okay, now he's dead. Right. So I think it's more of a political thing behind the scenes of trying to get the estate in order or something.

Now, who's writing the songs? Who's writing These Eyes? Randy started These Eyes, and Burton kind of finished it. So at that point, they had both been writing separately, and eventually they start writing together and become really the first hit-making songwriting team in Canadian history. Amazing. Here, speaking of hits here, let me get to another jam

and keep our chat going here. I love this part of the song it's catchy you never heard this too often on the radio this part it was the 60s man Andy Frost on Psychedelic Sunday. No time left for you. On my way to bed today. No time left for you On my way to better days No time left for you I'll find myself some wings No time left for you

Distant roads are calling me No time left for you No time for a gentle rain No time for my watch and chain. No time for revolving doors. No time for the killing floor. No time for the killing floor. There's no time left for you.

No time left for you. No time left for you I might have to turn this up in a bit when you know that whole, no time, no time. Okay, what is a killing floor? Did we ever find out what the hell is a killing floor? A killing floor is just like at a slaughterhouse where they take care of a beef and things like that. I know some people thought he was referring to Vietnam or things like that. I know some people

thought he was referring to Vietnam or something like that. Okay, now I want to get timelines here. So we're still in this is another album released in 1969. And what album is this from? So the second album is Canned Wheat.

So we got Wheatfield Soul, and they're like, oh, this prairie wheat thing is going well. Let's put out some canned wheat. All about the wheat. Okay, but again, this album came out in 1969. And we're not even

done. How many albums, not to spoil things, but how many albums do the Guess Who put out in 1969? Not enough. But three, right? Like there's three proper albums, full albums from the Guess Who released in 1969. Yeah, they're unstoppable.

Unstoppable. Hardest working men in show business. All right, no time. What can you tell me about no time? Well, here's that crazy Bachman solo. Okay, let's turn it up. You know, listening to this, this fuzzy guitar sound, you can tell, you know, there's a, where Neil Young is heavily influenced by Randy Backman.

Like there's a lot of symbiotic relationship there, right? There's a lot of that Neil Young fuzzy kind of godfather of grunge sound coming out of that Randy Backman guitar. Well, that's definitely a really noisy guitar solo. Now that might sound different than the way you hear it on the radio because they re-record the song No Time for the next album and they clean it up a bit. It's a lot cleaner.

It's a lot kind of more polite. It's a lot more commercial and it was a big hit. But this is the earlier version. This is the first version that appears on canned wheat. And I think that solo is one of Randy's greatest things. And you're right. It is kind of like Neil Young. There's a lot of feedback.

It's a real noisy. Well, they're dear friends, right? I know when I saw Neil Young in concert, he brought out Randy Backman, and I know they did the Portage of Maine 15 Below. You got a lot of love between Randy and Neil through the years. And I'm guessing they were both hanging around Winnipeg at the same time. They're from that same circuit,

although Neil left quite early to move to California. Here, hold on. Let's stop burning here. No time, no time, no time. No, no, no time. No, no, no time. No time, the time. Right.

I kind of think this part, the Q version is a little faster, I think, at least to my ears. But fantastic, buddy. Yeah, the Neil Young, yeah, Buffalo Springfield and all that in California. Absolutely. Oh yeah. Different. Okay. A little more raw, a little less polished, a little more garagey. And then, uh, yeah, they polish this up for a re-release. Like guitar. Yeah. Okay. Here's my hot take. No Time, the original version from Canned Wheat, the first grunge song.

Okay. There you go. You can... Yeah. I mean, Burton thinks that the second version is a lot better

and obviously it was a huge hit so who might argue right but i think that version that's that's like proto metal for canadian music and you know that's randy really freaking out all right randy shout out to randy now uh this is your third book right what are your first two books about so i wrote my first book is about a group from scot Nazareth. Of course. Who, of course, I grew up with in the 70s as well. So that was an easy pick. Is that Hair of the Dog? Yeah, sure.

Amongst others. And then I wrote... Because I always liked Hair of the Dog, you know. It's, ah, you're all messing with... Sorry, go on. Yeah, a great band. And then my second book was about Cheap Trick. Oh.

Saw them open for Pearl Jam in 98. I think everybody saw them open for somebody. Don't get me started. Eddie, though, I was, you know, it was general admission at Molson Park in Barrie. Loved that venue, actually. But anyway, so I was watching Eddie because you could see behind the stage there.

You could see through it, whatever. And he was just loving Cheap Trick. You could tell this was like, Eddie Vedder has them opening because Eddie Vedder was a true fan of Cheap Trick. You could tell this was like, Eddie Vedder has them opening because Eddie Vedder was a true fan of Cheap Trick. Sure. And when you grow up and you're my age, you don't realize, oh, this is a real band.

They're not just a don't be cruel cover band. Because that's the first Cheap Trick song I was exposed to was their cover of Elvis' Don't Be Cruel. Oh. Anyway. So what are we talking for you? Are you in your 40s? Yeah.

Is that a personal question? I mean, I ask the tough questions on this program. Mike's flirting with me, Vanessa. It's all Vanessa. We can share, Robert Lawson. There's enough Robert for us to share. Okay. So again, Wheatfield Soul, 1969.

Canned Wheat, 1969. This is the version I like of this jam because I love this opening part. And a lot of times you hear this song on the radio or you get it in a compilation and it doesn't have this opening part. So let's get into this jam. American Woman Gonna mess your mind

American Woman She gonna mess your mind American woman she gonna mess your mind American woman gonna mess your mind American woman gonna mess your mind Say A, say M, say E, say R, say I, say C, say A, say N. American woman, gonna mess your mind. American woman, gonna mess your mind. American woman, gonna mess your mind American woman, gonna mess your mind American Woman Stay away from me

American Woman Mama let me be Don't come a-hanging around my door I don't want to see your face no more I got more important things to do Than spend my time growing old with you Now woman I said stay away

American woman Listen what I say Drop the mic. Game's over, Robert. It's over. It's over. It's over. This is a jam.

This is a jam. Wow. Okay. Bury me in any fun facts or mind blows about American woman, which it's safe to say is the definitive guess who jam.

Go ahead. Well, you know, it's telling that you refer to it as a jam because it came out of just a jam session of them live on stage, not really knowing what they're doing, fooling around. And Burton kind of comes up with that chorus, and then they, you know, work on it in the studio and during sound checks. And that's when he gets the verses together. There are a lot of stories of how the song came about.

And it's like every time you hear a story about this song, it's different. And they're all told by Randy. He's an unreliable narrator. Well, you know, it's like the game of telephone. When you tell a story to one person it changes it changes changes that's like with randy except he's just the first guy and it already changes so much you never let never let the facts get in the way of a good story that's your but it's your job to sort through everything and write what you believe to be the

truth right so i kind of yeah. So going through and comparing dates, you know, Randy gives a lot of dates about this song and they're almost always wrong. So I like going through and not so much to prove him wrong, but just to get the actual correct information out there. That's like really important to me. You know, I have a customer on my store who knows his rock history.

And when I told him I was writing a book about the Guess Who, right away he said, you know that Burton Cummings or Jim Morrison used to have these drinking contests where they would stay up all night

and drink until the first one passes out. And that's just not true at all. They met once. What a great story. They met once. So I like to just, you know, not to prove that I'm right or any kind of ego thing like that, but just to get the correct facts out there because there seems to,

especially these days, just be a lot of misinformation about groups, about music. Okay, we'll let Burden take us home now. I'm no good for you Gonna look you right in the eye Tell you what I'm gonna do You know I'm gonna lose You know I'm gonna go You know I'm gonna lose You know I'm gonna go Wow, okay. Tell me, chart-wise,

he's a big hit in the States. Yeah, American Woman's huge for them. And still is. I mean, you know, that song continued for a long time. And he's a big hit in the States. Yeah, American Woman's huge for them. And still is. I mean, you know, that song continued for a long time. It's been in movies. It's been on television shows. Obviously, when Lenny Kravitz covered it,

that just brought a whole new life to it. And a lot of people who maybe didn't even know that, the guests who did it, know it more from the Lenny Kravitz version because he had a big hit with it and there was a music video and it was in the awesome powers movie and and that became a whole second life almost for the song how do you what do you think of the lenny kravitz version what are your thoughts on that one well i think think I kind of like it. I'm not a big Lenny Kravitz guy at all. Mr. Cab Driver. Oh, Lord.

How about, you've got to let love rule. I'll leave the singing to Lenny. I like that. No, it's okay. I do like that he didn't just kind of do the same riff. You know, the Lenny version is pretty different. He kind of subverts it and does his own thing. And I think that's really, that's admirable for sure.

Now, let's not bury the lead here. We mentioned it's a big, big freaking hit, but it's actually a number one U.S. Billboard Hot 100 hit. This goes to the top of the charts. And Canadian bands weren't going to the top of the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 hit. This goes to the top of the charts, and Canadian bands weren't going to the top of the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 in 1969. No, it's a huge thing for them, and it allows them to just be on the road constantly,

that they're playing all the time in between these short little visits in the studio, which is important to notice too, that I think the Wheatfield Soul album, they recorded that thing in four days, which is like unheard of. You know, you'd spend four days just getting a drum sound now. Right.

So to spend only four days recording an album, and that album we're still listening to over 50 years later, and these songs are still getting played on the radio that just shows the level of creativity that they had as young guys from winnipeg now these young guys from winnipeg uh get a big u.s hit with a song called american woman was there any like was that intentional are they sort of we're going to play to the states by literally putting them in that not not only the title of the song, but the album's called American Woman. No.

I mean, that's, like I said, the song came out of a jam session on stage and Burton just sort of blurts out these words, American Woman. But to this date, I will say, occasionally on Facebook, I'll see somebody from the states and they'll

post something really angry, like, ah, the guess who can go the States and they'll post something really angry like, guess who can go to hell because they're anti-American and Burton Cummings should never tour in the States again because he hates our country so much. It's still all just from one song from 1970 that

Burton does not hate Americans. He lived in the States for decades. Isn't he the guy who gives me... Basically, I remember this refrain from my primary schoolyard. We'd go... Kids would go collect and go, Hey, hey, get out of my way.

I just came from the USA. This happened in my primary school. And years later, when finally, when Al Gore invented the the internet i was able to like where is this coming from apparently that's like a that's a uh birding cummings like song yeah there's a song on uh there's a song on the above the ground album called we just came from the usa yeah but this was i don't even know why we were doing this but it's like this is this was happening when I was in like grade one. Like anyway, there's,

there's a memory from Toronto Mike's memory bank. Okay. But I want to tell people that American woman is on the album. They called American woman, which much like wheat field, soul and canned wheat, they released this album in 1969. My mind can't get over the fact that these are three albums that they put out in 1969.

Like that's prolific. Yeah. And, and again, like I was saying, there's songs from all three of those records that are still played on the radio. And when Burton or Randy play live concerts,

they're still doing a lot of this material. So that's how strong that stuff was. And shout out again, because we're just, shout out the personnel. Like, who is in the Guess Who at this point, which is basically their apex. Right. So this is what we consider the classic lineup,

even though it's not officially the original lineup. So it's Burton, Randy, Jim Cale on bass, and Gary Peterson on drums. Okay. And now that we've hit the apex and there's still a lot of great jams and a lot of Guess Who history to come, I've already given you beer,

but can I give you, maybe Vanessa will be excited about this as well, but can I give you a Palma Pasta lasagna to take home with you? Absolutely. In my freezer right now. Palma Pasta. Go to palmapasta.com. They're in Mississauga and Oakville. They've sent over the

lasagna for you. I've given you some beer. This flashlight, courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home. I got a sticker here for you, a Toronto Mike sticker. That's courtesy of stickeru.com. Today's a doubleheader, Robert.

This is kind of exciting. So we're diving into the guess who right now. But tonight at 7 p.m., I'm going to take this studio and build it out in my backyard. And I have Mark Hebbshire, Hebsey man, is going to join me in the backyard.

Canada Kev, who was a part of the first such episode of this nature, but we have Andy Palalas from Canna Cabana dropping by. We call this episode Halloweed. So it's Halloweed 2022. And I've got some great jams that, in fact, one of the jams we're going to

play today would be appropriate. But like kind of Halloween appropriate jams. And no Monster Mash. Don't worry. But we're not only going to be kicking out these jams. We're going to be talking about weed. We're going to be talking about sports. There might be some smoking going on. And it's

all happening tonight. So that's Arcana Cabana Halloween 2022 episode of Toronto Mic'd. All right, man. All these songs so far, by the way, we've kicked out what we started with shaking all over, but

these eyes, No Time, American Woman, all big radio jams, as is this one. Let's get to it. Have you been around? Have you done your share of coming down On different things that people do? Have you been aware?

You got brothers and sisters who care About what's gonna happen to you any year from now Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand What happened to you in a year from now? Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand Maybe I'll be there to share the land That they'll be giving away When we all live together I'm talking about together now Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand

Maybe I'll be there to share the land That they'll be giving away When we all live together. I'm talking about together now. Bunch of commies. All right, man, talk to me about Share the Land. So this is a real important album because they've fired Randy Bachman. He's out.

What? Tell me why they fired Randy Bachman. He's out. Tell me why they fired Randy Bachman. Just got fed up with him. Why not? You know, there's a few different reasons for that. One, and they both work together, I guess. The two main reasons are that cultural difference. You know, Randy's a little bit older than Burton. Burton comes in, he's rocking and rolling.

And that involves some of the excess that goes along with the lifestyle. Shout out to Canna Cabana. And Randy is not down with that. Is he Mormon? Well, he was for a while. I don't think he is anymore, but, you know, I don't know. Even I don't know how much of a practicing Mormon he was,

but he was pretty straight-laced anyway. Okay. So that was an issue. But another perhaps larger issue was that he got sick, so he took some time off from the band flew back to winnipeg mid-tour so he could see his family physician and then they're supposed to meet up again in new york city for some concerts when he feels better and the guests who get to town and they find out that randy's already been there for a week recording and writing with other acts.

So they kind of felt like maybe he wasn't as sick as he said he was. Well, he was busy taking care of business. You're supposed to laugh at that, Robert. These are the jokes, folks. You need an audible laugh. Hold on one second. Shake your head. No more sadness, no more sorrow, no more bad times. Shake your head. Hold on one second. Everybody singing together. Everybody singing and laughing.

Good times, good times. Everybody walking by the river now. Walking, singing, talking. So now this is really, truly Bird and Cummings Band. This is, guess who is his band now? Right, and one thing I always think it's real important to point out And this is, guess who is his band now? Right. And one thing I always think it's real important to point out, because, you know, when I was talking about trying to get facts right,

something that people for years just don't understand is how short Randy's tenure in the band was. So there's lots of great albums that we're going to talk about and lots of great songs that are after Randy left. So Randy's time in the band is real important, but it's not as long as a lot of people think. And people really just don't seem to get that. And I don't know why,

because if you think that Randy was in the band when they're doing Share the Land and Glamour Boy and all that other stuff, then who was playing guitar for BTO? Right. No, no, no. You know, a lot of this is generational because, you know, those of us who like, I'm thinking Brad Jones, who, because I got introduced to The Guess Who because I got a Greatest Hits album. Okay. And I actually loved it. It was a playthrough. I actually truly loved every jam. But when you have it, when you get introduced to a band through a Greatest Hits,

this happened to be the Rolling Stones. The Hot Rocks was the first Rolling Stones album I had. It's sort of a strange way to attack a band because you're not quite sure about personnel changes and the chronology. That's why this Deep Dive, I'm going to learn a lot. I did not realize that by 1970, Randy was

already out of the Guess Who. Yeah, that's right. No wonder they did three albums in 69. It's like a comet, man. It's going to burn very, very bright, but it's only going to be invisible for a very short period of time. But they went off to make tons of great music with other guys after that.

Yeah, shout out the new guys. Who's new in the Guess Who? So you still got Bird and Cummings, and he's doing his lead vocals and keyboards, and you still have Jim Cahill on bass, and you have Gary Peterson on drums, and who else is now in the Guess Who? So they replaced Randy

with two guys. Kurt Winter who's in a pretty well known Canadian, Winnipeg band called Brother that Burton was a big fan of and then Greg Leskew and he was in a Canadian Winnipeg band called Wild Rice. So you get two guys

to replace Randy and what they bring is not only their guitar talent but they were both writers in their previous groups so now burton has two guys to bounce ideas off of okay here we go now we're there's five members and this album by the way because we're tracking the albums this album comes out in 1970 so three albums in 69 and then share the land tonight so no rest for the wicked as as they say so this album is again named after the big hit share the land and share the land another big hit for the guests who even without randy because it's a top 10 uh billboard hit in the usa and it was what about backlash though like when i you know it's

a bit of a socialist like it's a bit of a communist... Americans don't like that stuff. The great red thread, and if you mention the communism of any nature, or socialism, they sort of get their backups. Their backs up. Not backmen. Their backs up. What was that kind of

reaction to a jam like that? Well, I think it's just of the time of the you know it's kind of a hippie anthem almost and it it's right in line with that kind of stuff it's a bit of that you know woodstock generation kind of thing um i think it's just kind of of the time it still gets a great reaction when burton and his band you know he often they'll do it as like the encore at a show and people love it i dig it man, man. Whenever that song, I get, I feel like I heard a lot of Guess Who on Psychedelic Sunday with Andy Frost. Probably, yeah.

Share the Land was a good one. And I'll just shout out Dale, who's on our live stream, live.torontomike.com, who, and I'm going to quote him, definitely buying this book. That was the quote. So you made a sale right there. Do you have a bell or something? Ching, ching. Love it. Okay. And we're just, now we're going to get,

like, I feel like what we've done so far, I think maybe the average music fan has an idea of all that, but what's coming up next is going to be quite an education for us. And guess who here? Let's kick out another jam so Train

Coming too fast Train Is it really gonna last now? And you still refuse to see, you still refuse to see, and you still refuse to see now. refuse to see now We love the dollar more than the car that daddy used to wear

We love to holler more than the dollars that take us to bed Can you hear it like a train coming too fast And I feel this is the first jam we've kicked out that people haven't heard, you know, played to death on Canadian radio.

I don't hear Pain Train that often on the radio these days. No, probably never. And that's, you know, that's a sad commentary on the formatting of kind of classic rock radio because this is a great deep cut, would sound great on FM radio. They got their five and they're not deviating from their five Guess Who jams, I guess. But this is from the album So Long, Bannatyne. I don't know about that title, man.

But 1971. So tell me, where are we at at this point with the Guess Who? 1971. So this is a follow-up to Share the Land. Same lineup. Greg Leskew and Kurt Winter are still there. And

what you really get with these Guess Who albums and it starts with Wheatfield Soul, but it continues with all of them, and this is why I think the Guess Who's catalog is so strong. You know, it's compact, but I don't think there's a dud in their catalog at all, because every album you're going to get a couple of radio hits. You're going to get like a deep rock tune like this.

You might get a little bit of a country or a folk thing. There could be a bluesy tune. There's even a little comedy novelty number maybe. But every album is solid. If I had to pick which album for anyone interested in the Guess Who to pick up? It would be like any of them. There's no duds.

There's no self-portrait in the catalog. Wow. Yeah, I'm trying to think. When I saw this jam showed up, I was like, oh, I don't even know this song. Right. I don't think this was on my greatest hits compilation there, Robert. It wasn't. And look at it. That's how great it is. Right. This didn't, I don't think this was one of my greatest hits compilation there, Robert. It wasn't. And look at it.

That's how great it is. Yeah. This band is prolific because that was 1971. And here is a jam from their album they put out in 1972. so So there's the two guys sharing guitars. Thank you. Now we're gonna hunt to bring them up in Northside Guns, guns, guns Run, take the money, here's a bullet for your boyfriend Guns, guns, guns

Eagle all gone and no more caribou Guns, guns, guns You be the red king, I'll be the yellow pawn Godspeed Mother Nature Never really wanted to say goodbye Godspeed Mother Nature

You know that I'm calling you now Never really wanted to say goodbye Godspeed Mother Nature Never really wanted to say goodbye Godspeed Mother Nature Never really wanted to say goodbye Look, I don't know if it's the good company or the mood I'm in, but in these headphones right now, this Guns, Guns, Guns jam sounds amazing.

That's good stuff. Again, every album full of great, great tunes that radio wouldn't play, which is too bad. This is from the album Rockin'. And with the same personnel, right? So we got three albums in a row here, same personnel. Okay. I feel like maybe Badini put this song in the Summit 72 documentary series

he put out on the CBC. I think so. I don't want to say that definitively, but I feel like maybe I heard Guns, Guns, Guns in there. Maybe that was a Canna Cabana-inspired dream I was having.

I'm not too sure here. Actually, not the biggest hit on the album, though, because it depends how you measure your hits, right? But billboard-wise, anyways, Heartbroken Bopper peaked at number 47

and this jam peaked at 70, but this did spend six weeks on the Billboard Hot 100. Cool stuff, man. And yeah, the guitar work is great there. Again, this is the I guess Winter and Lescue. Trading and

digging it, man. 1972. The year I feel like I remember. There's been so much Summit Series talk and so many different documentaries and series I've been watching lately. I feel like I remember 1972, but I don't think it's possible. Is there a word for that phenomenon?

Backmanitis. Without the backman. Where's Randy? Okay, still no Randy. Guns, guns, guns. Alright, we got a few more jams to go. I'm digging this because I'm learning a great deal here, but I want to recommend a couple of podcasts to

listeners of this podcast. A couple of great podcasts. The Advantaged Investor Podcast is brought to you by Raymond James Canada. It features insights from leading professionals providing valuable perspective for Canadian investors who want to remain knowledgeable, informed, and focused on long-term success. Hear from industry specialists

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Say hi to somebody while I get this awesome gift for you. Just say hi to anybody. Robert, that's called vamping. Okay, I'm back. Don't worry. Okay. No need to vamp any further. I have a wireless speaker.

This is courtesy of Moneris. You're taking that home with you, Robert. Look at that. It, of course, uses Bluetooth technology. You can listen to all the guess who you can handle via that great speaker. It's really, you're going to enjoy it. It sounds great. Perfect.

And you're also going to be able to listen to the Yes, We Are Open podcast, which is a Moneris podcast production. Season three is underway. I just posted a new episode of yes we are open on torontomic.com i did that yesterday the host is fbotm al grego so fans of this show know the great voice of al grego and he does a great job he's been traveling the country interviewing small canadian businesses and telling the story of their origin their struggles and future outlook.

And if you're a small business owner or an entrepreneur like myself, you'll find this podcast both helpful and motivational. And even if you just like human interest stories, you're going to dig it. Al does a great job. So the Advantage Investor Podcast is from Raymond James and the Yes, We Are Open podcast is a Moneris podcast production. You're like Kanna Cabana. Right? No right no listen i had this on like a some compilation of like summer jams or something that this was on and i'm like oh

neat Hey man, follow your daughter home Hey man, follow your daughter home Hey man, follow your daughter home Keep her out of trouble Follow your daughter home. Stay not late in the mob at the Batman. Follow your daughter home. Keep her out of mischief.

Follow your daughter home. Want all the boys like she's staying and sleeping. Follow your daughter home. Watch her. Hey, man. Tell me about this jam. Dare I say this problematic jam. Talk to me.

Well, this is, I don't know why, but this is the last time Burton ever played flute on a Guess Who album. I never got around to asking him about that, so I don't know what the answer for that is. Burton, we're standing by. It's not too late. Why don't you get him on Toronto Mic and you can co-host that episode with me

and we'll just talk about his flute playing. So at this point now, there is a real big lineup change. Jim Cale on bass is out. Gone. He's replaced by Bill Wallace, who is also from the band Brother that Kurt Winter came from. And Greg Leskew is out as well,

and he's replaced by my buddy Donnie McDougal. So now you've got the thing with Donnie and Bill, not only are they writers, but they're also really strong vocalists themselves. So they bring a lot of great harmony, backing, and even lead vocals on this album on some songs. And this album is called Artificial Paradise.

Right. And this is 1973, because again, no rest for the wicked. They don't take a year off. They're pounding them out here. I actually have a great question that came in when Steve Cole learned that you were coming on. Now, Steve Cole, because of the way I did this

where I had you in the calendar and then I tweeted, I wanted to do a Guess Who deep dive. So because I was tricky that way, Steve suggested you as the guest. And I think to this moment right now, he believes you're on this show because of his Twitter suggestion.

But you were on my calendar for a good month before that. I hate to break Steve's heart. Yeah, I think my friend Frank also suggested me when he saw that. So you were too vague that I was already booked to come on. Oh, intentionally vague.

You know, come on. We want to tease the people. This is the Guess Who episode. We have the subject matter expert because you literally wrote the book Wheatfield Empire, The Listener's Guide to the Guess Who. Steve Cole says,

when Greg Leskew abruptly quit the band, he was replaced by Donnie McDougal. McDougal was a singer-songwriter in his own right and sang lead on and wrote a few tracks from Artificial Paradise, Live at the Paramount, etc. I have always thought it completely out of character

for Cummings, given his abundance of self-confidence, to share the spotlight with another singer. I was wondering if your guest could shed any light on the addition of McDougal and if he also felt, i did that it was doomed as there was not room for two singers in that band great question um well he does bring up you know when we're talking about how many albums they're putting out there there is a live album in there that uh in between artificial paradise so um so even though there wasn't a studio album it

looks like there's a gap but there's a live album then they're touring to promote that right and they're doing you know a lot of promo for that so it doesn't it might look like they took a year off they did not um you know donnie was an old friend of burton so i don't think there was any ego in terms of that burton at the time at least seemed to be okay with uh giving up some of the lead vocal um uh position on the artificial paradise album bill wallace sings a couple of tracks donnie i think has two donnie had i mean donnie's saying lead he had a solo acoustic song on the live album so i think that shows the amount of faith that the band and management had in Donnie that you bring in a new guy,

we're going to record a live album, and he gets a solo spot. That just wouldn't happen. I don't know if that's ever happened with a new guy in a band. So no real competition at that point. They're all friends. They're all old Winnipeg buddies.

And getting Donnie is actually a real smart move because he's going to fit in really well with them because they're already all drinking buddies and stuff like that. That is not the last we'll hear of Steve Cole. I've got another question, but I'm going to wait because we're going chronologically here.

So this album, Artificial Paradise, you mentioned the personnel change. And then we, not too long thereafter, later in 1973, the album number 10 is released. I'm going to play a jam from that. But I find it interesting that number 10 is the 11th studio album from the Guess Who, if you're counting.

So I don't know which, if they were trying to disown the first Guess Who album. I don't know. But let me play the song, and then we'll get into it. But here's Glamour Boy. Mr. McDougal, how did you get the nickname Leroux? Well, it was just after the time that Billy had just enjoyed the bed a short while, and we were touring in Tokyo. And my name being McDougal was changed to DeGallero

from drinking so much tequila, which is called Caballon, you know. And then they shortened that down to LaRoe, so that's what that's been designed. You got them lined up waiting for you. You got them standing in the aisles. Don't hang them up. $25,000. You can look like a woman tonight. $25,000.

I think it'll work out right. I think it'll work out right I think it'll work out Oh, oh I think it'll work out Oh, you never know how to ride it I think it'll work out Now this is a Burton Cummings jam. Sure. It's all BC here. Okay, what can you tell us about Glamour Boy?

Well, at the time, you know, Burton, not really comfortable with the glam rock scene and guys like mark boland and david bowie and all these guys in makeup and high heels and and and just that um he's rectified his his view on that in the decades since but and if you look at the cover of the number 10 album it kind of makes sense because here's just like five guys wearing like flannel and garnet amplifier t-shirts you know walks out of the house wearing one of those um so they're just regular you know winnipeg kind of hoser guys working class you know nothing wrong with that but the glam rock thing and the idea

of that image as being more important than the music, Burton took that kind of personally, I guess. So the song is kind of about that. But even without that kind of closed-minded look towards glam rock, a big song, still a song

when he plays live, people love it. And a great performance. You'll hear this in Don McKellar's The Last Night. They use this jam. By the way, I did a little homework here. I know this is probably in your book,

of course, but yeah, this is the 11th studio album, but the reason they named it number 10 was because this is the 10th release for RCA Records. That's where number 10 comes in. So the early recordings were not recorded for RCA. What's going on here?

Hold on. Glamour Boy. Okay, this is 1973. All right, my friend. This is the jam coming up. I could play tonight with my Halloween episode in the backyard with Hebsey and Canada Kev and Andy Palalas. Totally appropriate, I think, for a halloween episode so Clap for the Wolfman

He gon' rate your record high Clap for the Wolfman You gon' dig him till the day you die Clap for the wolfman He gon' rate your record high Yes, gracious Clap for the wolfman You gon' dig in till the day you die

The two-rod bird and the two-gull bird You die Oh, wow The do-run run and the do-go-ver They were friends of mine I was on my moonlight drive Snuggled in, said, baby, just one kiss She said, no, no, no Romance ain't keeping me alive I said, hey, babe

Do you want a cuckoo, cuckoo? She said, I, I, I So I was left out in the cold I said, you're what I've been dreaming of She said, I don't want to go Oh, you know She was digging the cat out of the cage. Clap for the wolfman.

He gonna reach your record high. Yes, baby, I your doctor love. Hey, Robert, did you ever catch American Graffiti on City TV's late night movies? Of course. I mean, I'm telling you, I love that movie. That's early George Lucas there. And I loved Wolfman Jack. Anyways, clap for the Wolfman, Wolfman Jack.

What can you tell me about, first of all, what's the name of this album? This is Road Food? What are we on here? Yes. Yes, we're up to Road Food. Doesn't sound appetizing, but what do I know? Hey, I want to shout out FOTM's Scott Carpenter, because Scott Carpenter was that 1050 chum, the greaser, if you will,

greaser power, and they would, you know, the honk your horn and all that good stuff. So it sort of kind of comes out of that American Graffiti Wolfman Jack vibe. But you take it away, Robert. Well, we have the same lineup again. So they're pretty solid, or at least it seems so. And this song, Notoriously, was originally written by the band kind of as a bit of a dig against Burton, and they called it Clap for Napoleon.

And then, of course, Burton changed it. And having Wolfman Jack on it, you know, makes it a bit of a novelty tune. Sure. But, you know, I remember when I was a kid and, yeah, seeing Wolfman Jack on television, you know, because he hosted the Midnight Special, and I think he was on, like like Hollywood Squares and stuff like that. Oh, yeah, baby. And of course, there was like a Wolfman DJ character on Hilarious House of Frightenstein.

Right. That's definitely taken off from Wolfman Jack. Shout out to Billy Van. So just a lot of, you know, if you're a kid like me growing up in the 70s, the idea of a Wolfman character is pretty cool. And this is pre-Teen Wolf, right? Very pre-Teen Wolf. And even more importantly, pre-Teen Wolf 2.

You know what? I never saw it, man. But that's with the Arrested Development guy, right? There's no Michael J. Fox in it. What's his name? Justin Bateman. Yeah. No, his sister's Justine Bateman.

He's Jason Bateman. Oh, Jason. Come on. Get your Batemans right here. not no that his sister's justine bateman he's jason bateman oh jason come on get your bateman's right here shout out to mallory on uh speak randy you see the connection though right right you see the connection mallory played the sister of alex p keaton michael j fox played my alex p keaton so michael j fox was teen wolf and then jason bateman is Teen Wolf 2. T-O-O. Because his sister knew Michael well from Teen Wolf. And I have no idea if that has anything to do with anything

except I just realized that right now. So there you go. A little mind blow for you right there. Back to who's the boss. Who is the boss? No, we did that. We did that. Okay.

Now, same lineup. The album, again, is Road Food. Okay. And that jam, going great here. We got two more j again, is Road Food. Okay, and that jam going great here. We got two more jams, by the way. And I can't wait to conclude by asking, who is this current Guess Who that seems to be playing here and there and everywhere?

And again, shout out to FOTM, Sass Jordan. But let's get to Dancing Fool. It was a Saturday night without a whole lot shaking Oh my, oh my, I was bored I had my best eye at home, it was a chance worth taking Somehow I was still ignored Been too long since I've been shy and lonely Ooh, but it's okay Need some gal to be my one and only

Ooh You know what? This is a hit, man. This is definitely a US Top 40 hit on the Billboard Hot 100. Again, all these songs we listen to are Canadian hits, really. But this was a big jam for 1974. Guess who? Yeah, I love it.

Burton's not a fan of it. At this point, we have a really big lineup change that kind of changes things forever. Okay, so let me set it up here. This is a big time here. Okay, so this is from the album Flavors. Give it to me straight. What is the lineup change this time? So

both Kurt Winter and Donny McDougal, the two present guitar players, they're both out. Gone. And they get replaced by Toronto guitar player Dominic Troiano. So this is the first time a non-Winnipeg, non-Manitoba guy is in the ranks. And it changes the sound of the band drastically. But this is the lineup for the final two albums.

And it's kind of a controversial lineup, but I love the stuff. It's different, but it's really great, and like I said, this is a great tune. I got a question from Steve Cole. Always a thoughtful question, asker. Okay, Steve writes, when McDougal and Kurt Winter were tossed, why were they tossed, by the way?

Well, the story, which I don't 100% believe, is that they were more interested in partying and they weren't kind of contributing to the Road Food album as much as they were required to. But I think in general, the constant touring and recording and TV appearances and radio, I think it was just burning people out. When you look through the lineup, through all these records, we have Gary Peterson and Burton, and then other guys,

you kind of show up for a couple albums and you're out, and then you're here for, you know. Right. Right. Now, okay, continuing Steve's question. When McDougal and Kurt Winter were tossed, they were replaced by Dominic Triano. Triano was a brilliant guitarist and a musical genius.

By the way, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. We lost him far too soon here. He was quite the legend. But he said, he's pretty well the last person you would expect to join a singles pop rock band. What on earth was the thinking? Was Cummings looking for legitimacy looking to steer the band in a completely different direction triano joining the guess who was a confounding

move and to no one's surprise was ultimately unsuccessful and likely what led to the breakup i'm so upset i'm throwing my cans of beer everywhere but likely what led to the breakup i'm so upset i'm throwing my cans of beer everywhere but likely what led to the breakup of the band what say you robert well the um yes it's a tragedy that you're throwing beer cans all over the studio spoiler alert the band's gonna break up okay keep so the um it might seem more of a surprise than it really was. I mean, Triano played guitar on Randy Bachman's first solo album that he recorded while he was still in the Guess Who.

And he also recorded some stuff with Burton for a, for a movie soundtrack. And that was before he was actually in the band. So he was sort of in the midst of them, maybe not publicly quite you know known for that so they'd kind of tested him out they had done recordings together and they knew of him when the randy bachman album that uh dominic plays on gary peterson is the drummer on that album so they're they all know each other it's not as foreign as it might seem that this guy from, you know,

this fusion player from Toronto all of a sudden gets airdropped in to Manitoba and he's a member of the guest who it's not quite that radical. But in terms of sound, yes, it moves them into more of a fusion era. They're playing, you know, like odd time signatures that are doing, you know, almost like jazz fusion stuff. It's changing a lot, for sure. And it's interesting to note that even though the personnel changes in The Guess Who, their prolific nature continues

because Road Food came out the month of my birth in 1974, and then later in the same calendar year, Flavors comes out. So that's quite like that's, bands, you know, that's quite something, I think. How many albums they drop between 1969 and 1974. Right.

Wow. Okay, we have one more to go. So we began things when we played Chad Allen and the Expressions and that single was released, Guess Who? Hence the new name of the band, but that was called Shakin' All Over, that cover.

So let's close with a jam from 1975 in the album Power In The Music. And I'll be scouting skinny Minnie And I'll turn to Jenny, Jenny With a dizzy Miss Lizzy Blues She smiled while we were scrolling And I knew that I was rolling Had to tell my big buddy the news It's not the magic

It's not the music It's not the moonlight I don't know when I felt like this before About ten years time ago I love the self-referential nature of these lyrics because we're in 1975 and Burden Cummings is singing about 10 years ago, 1965, when the band was singing Shakin' All Over. And we started our conversation with Shakin' All Over.

We conclude our chat with when the band was singing Shakin' All Over, and we started our conversation with Shakin' All Over. We conclude our chat with when the band was singing Shakin' All Over. This album is called Power in the Music. This is the final album with Burden Cummings, right? Right. So, okay.

Tell me what you can about like that. Why does Burden leave the Guess Who? So there's a few things. First of all, there's a great Bill Wallace bass line running through that entire song. It's just fantastic. My hot take on the song, though,

is that it's not self-referential. Okay, let me hear more. Let's get into it. Let's go. Well, I don't think i even have this in the book i i don't know if i if i had the guts to you know i like it you're sort of spitballing here off the top of your head let's go well because how can that not be self-referential yeah and it sounds like it would be because it's you know and and i and near the end uh during the fade

dominic even plays a little bit of Randy's guitar lick from Shakin' All Over. But Burton wasn't in the band when they did Shakin' All Over. So when he's singing, I remember when the band was Shakin' All Over, I think he's singing just from the position he was in the audience, maybe as a member of the Deverons, watching Chad Allen and the Expressions playing it. It's not that he's remembering him being

in the band because he wasn't. Because he wasn't there. In fact, and neither was Bill Wallace or Dominic Triano. So really, Gary Peterson is the only one who's from that original recording on this. Good point. Listen, you got me sold, right?

That's an important point, that he wasn't a member of the Guess Who in 1965 when they dropped Shakin' All Over. So it might be more just looking back to the past when he was a young guy in Winnipeg, going to see bands, going to see different groups at the community centers, not necessarily his band.

You made a good argument there. Okay, so now we're in the summer of 1975. They released this in July 1975. Why does Burden Cummings leave the band? And then I got the big questions about like, it's like if you took a boat, you have a boat, and you start replacing parts on a boat,

and then at some point you've replaced every single part of the boat. Is it still the original boat? or is that a new boat now now while you ponder that one okay is it seaworthy is more depends how you replace the parts but the guess who without burden cummings i mean we we long ago we said goodbye to Randy, but why does Burden leave the band? So at this point, he's just super burned out as well. And he'd been mentioning his solo career up to at least two years before this album in interviews.

So he's now, you know, like I said, guys are getting burned out and they're replacing guitar players. Now even he's had enough of it. And he's not thrilled with the dominic troiano um direction that they're going into even though he instigated it um yeah he's just burned out on it there is a song on this album which i i should have mentioned to you last week called dreams it's a beautiful vocal ballad that he does and it sort of foreshadows things like i'm scared and stand tall on his first solo album so you can kind of see the direction that he's he's going a little bit of uh doing these really big emotional ballads and that's

another song you'll probably never hear on the radio but it's just as good as stand tall or i'm scared yeah you know i was thinking that with one of the the earlier jams that they're sort of like oh this is what we're gonna get uh i think it was a glamour boy like there's a little like little taste of that in glamour boy but uh burton cummings yeah it goes on to solo success of course uh at some point he has to be on the tears are not enough uh recording that's important that's in the mids. But what happens to the Guess Who after this? Is there any... The Guess Who, you can see the Guess Who now.

They're probably playing some American festival this weekend. I don't know who's in the Guess Who now. I know they bill themselves as a Guess Who. Who owns that name? So it gets a little complicated. Yeah. But this is one of the things I really like trying to set the record straight.

Okay, I'm ready. Because, yeah, it's not as simple as some people think. So when Burton quits the band in 1975, the band breaks up. There's no guess who at that point. And all the guys that go off and they're doing different things for a couple of years. So there's no guess who. Randy is, you know, firm in BTO land. Burton starts his solo career with huge success. Sure.

His third solo album, Dream of the Child, the first Canadian album to go triple platinum. Wow. Self-produced, you know, huge hits. So there's no guess who for a while. And then original bassist Jim Cale, he kind of wants to get out playing again. So he forms a group or a new lineup of the Guess Who

with Kurt Winter on guitar. So legit. Yeah. So himself on bass. Donna McDougal on guitar and lead vocals. Legit. Yeah. And then the drummer from Kurt Winter and Bill Wallace's So himself on bass. Donna McDougal on guitar and lead vocals. Legit. And then the drummer from Kurt Winter and Bill Wallace's old band brother,

a guy named Vance Masters. So he finally gets to join the ranks. So I think that that's a completely legitimate era of the Guess Who. And they put out a couple albums and Kurt leaves and whatever. That's like if you go see the Beach Boys and the only guy there is Mike Love and some other guys like you're like okay well mike's there so i get it well the thing with this lineup though they're doing new songs okay they're touring they're you know to me that's a real guess who okay it's not a great guess who those albums aren't great at all but to me it's still a guess who but then you start changing the parts of the boat. Right.

And it becomes, you know, because there wasn't that nostalgic kind of circuit in 78, say. We didn't have classic rock radio yet. We weren't looking back that far. There's no nostalgia circuit. Maybe at that point, you'd have to be like a 50s artist or whatever to get on some like American graffiti bandwagon. Yeah, you got like Sha Na Na. Right. You know, whatever. to like Sha Na Na. Right. You know, whatever. Like Happy Days or whatever.

Right, you got this weird fake nostalgia for 50s greasers. Right, right. So I think that's a legitimate guess who. Again, not a great guess who, but I accept it. And Burton and Randy were okay with it because they both had these great solo careers. And again, not knowing that there would ever be a market for classic rock.

You know. Right. If Jim Cale wants to tour as a guest, who cares? You know, there's not that much cachet to that at that time. Right. As time goes forward and he keeps changing members and changing members, then it becomes more of a nostalgic thing and slash almost cover band. Right. So I think his intentions were okay.

They were acceptable at the beginning. Like I say, both Burton and Randy sort of gave him, you know, Hey, if you want a tour to guess who, you know, there wasn't an idea that that name even had any value to it. Right. You know, CDs hadn't come along along yet so where everyone's going to be replacing their entire collection again and you're going to be get you know now i got to buy all the

stones albums again and all the dylan and all the beatles and everything that that that still didn't exist once you get into the late 80s that's when it becomes almost like a tribute act and the lineup just rotates like crazy you got one guy right you got the drummer well jim kale was there for a long time okay okay gary peterson on drums was kind of in and out a little bit he's still there i think he's as of well as of as of pre pandemic okay jim kale finally retired from the band right just let Gary Peterson be the lone original member. Now, for the current US tour that they're doing, Gary's not with them.

Oh, interesting. So for people who say, well, there's still one guy. Right. There's still that one guy. Well, I went to a wonderful source, not as good as your book, but I went to Wikipedia. I'm like, okay, who are the current members of the guest team? Because I know about Derek Sharp being the lead vocalist

because he's married to Sass Jordan. Right. That little connection there. But I, and Court, you know, this is obviously not a, you have more current information than Wiki has here, but they list Gary Peterson

as a current member. And then you can see everyone else is sort of a, I mean, Leonard Shaw came around in the 90s, I guess, but everybody else is like a Johnny come lately, you know, the new kid in town.

Rudy Sarzo was on bass for a few years, which I found really weird. Like the Ozzy Osbourne, Quiet Riot, Whitesnake guy was playing, you know, county fairs in the States. I guess if you're at a fair, you're seeing several bands and one is the Guess Who?

And they're going to, you know, they're going to come on and they're going to do American Woman and they're going to do all this stuff. Maybe you aren't picky about the fact that only the drummer is left over from those 10 years of glory, 65 to 75. Well, a lot of people in the States

actually don't know who's in the band. Right. And I see that on Facebook and on social media all the time. People even post on Burton's own personal Facebook page. I saw you two weeks ago in North Carolina. You were great. And it's, you know, it's astounding.

But ownership wise, it's obviously they have the legal right. Maybe through Gary Peterson or something. There's obviously the legal right to the name. But what's interesting to me is when everybody was locked down for COVID and there was some big american festival that was going ahead when we were all like not leaving our homes or whatever and one of the acts one of the big prominent acts in this festival was the guess who and there was a lot of like blowback because you know you're collecting thousands of people and uh you know

unvaccinated people and covid is running rampant maybe you need to cancel this concert and and wait till we have this under control. Do you remember this? Yeah, wasn't that that big motorcycle rally? So there was a bit, and again, I'm not here to, no judgment from me here, except that there was some backlash towards the brand, the Guess Who, because

they were playing this motorcycle thing. And I would just assume that some of that stink would stick to a Randy Backman or a Burton Cummings. That's just how I could. I think the vast majority of people, when they hear the Guess Who is playing, those are the two guys they think about. Sure. And, you know, like I said, on social media, I see it all the time where people go to see the Guess Who now and like they think that they've seen Randy and Burton.

Like they don't know what these guys look like or something. So never mind that people don't know that Randy's not on the Share the Land album. People think he's still touring as the Guess Who, which is, you know, crazy. Would you go see the current lineup of the Guess Who in concert? Well, it seems unlikely.

Because you're a super fan. They never play really, you know, in Toronto or Winnipeg. I don't know if they would be. You know why we're too knowledgeable? We will see them for the frauds they are. I would like to if Gary's with them, I would go to see them just so I can get them to sign my copy of the book. Because I did

send them a copy and I did talk to them. I interviewed them for the book. So if you've written a book about the Guess Who, then you should definitely go buy a ticket to see this band. But I've got some of the live albums that they've put out, and it is very different from what I consider the Guess Who. It's a very showy kind of show. It's a very kind of showy rock kind of thing. Robert, we're going to play a little Lois is Alone in a moment

as we say goodbye here, but I will just remind everybody that this side of the tracks.ca still online. You're still updating it periodically, right? Like it's not a dead site. And this side of the tracks.ca has a lot of great stuff

and a lot of great reviews of music and movies and more on that website and the archives. And of course, we dove deep into the Guess Who today, and you, my friend, have written one hell of a great book on the topic, and you delivered one hell of a great episode of Toronto Mike.

I just dropped the beer again. Note to self, maybe don't keep it there. Wheatfield Empire, the listener's guide to the Guess Who. Don't leave without your lasagna. And I'm looking forward to that photo by the tree with you, buddy.

You have a good time. Yeah, this is great. And that, that brings us to the end of our 1139th. 1139th? I want to get that right. I thought it was four. No, it's 1139.

I don't know. It's the end of our 1139th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. How can people follow you on Twitter, Robert? I'm at Lawson NCA. I think that's what it is. Lawson NCA.

I'm on Facebook and Instagram as well. People want to reach out to me to get copies of my books. Okay, yeah. Tell them explicitly how they can reach out to get copies of your book. Are you listening, Dale? So the book's available on Amazon or you can order it at Indigo. If you want to get a signed copy directly from me, I do have still some stock. Um, so people can reach out to me directly.

I'll get them a shipping quote and I usually can ship a book in two days or less. Um, I've got hardcovers of all three of my books actually. So I can send those out to people if they like. And I always promote it on social media. I'm always kind of trying to hustle. There's still, even though this book's been out for a little while now, a year and a half, I think, there's still people out there who are learning about it.

Well, a lot of people are going to learn about it right now. Absolutely. So I'm always trying to reach more people. I hate the idea that there's some huge guess who, Burton Cummings fan out there who's obsessed with them and somehow just wasn't on Facebook that day or something and just doesn't know about the book. So always trying to get the word out.

Well, I'll do my best to raise awareness about Wheatfield Empire, a listener's guide to the Guess Who. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. They're going to love your hat in the picture. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker You is at Stick Lakes Beer. They're going to love your hat in the picture. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Moneris is at Moneris.

Raymond James Canada are at Raymond James CDN. Recycle My Electronics are at EPRA underscore Canada. Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH. And Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana underscore. Speaking of Canana Cabana, we'll be seeing you at 7 PM tonight at live.torontomike.com. Smoke them if you got them. I know it's true How about you? I'm picking up trash and then putting down roads And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes

And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn Because everything is coming up Rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms me today

And your smile is fine It's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is rosy and gray And your smile is fine, it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Cause everything is rosy and green. Well, I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain. And I've kissed you in places I better not name. And I've seen the sun go down on Shakhty Kul. We'll be right back. and gray Yeah the wind is cold but the smell of snow warms us today

And your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy Yeah everything is rosy and gray

Yeah Yeah Everything is rosy and gray