Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - The History of Metal in Canada: Toronto Mike'd #1009

Episode Date: March 4, 2022

In this edition of the Progressive Past of Modern Melodies, Mike, Brother Bill and Cam Gordon are joined by Martin Popoff as they dive deep into the history of metal in Canada. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and RYOBI Tools.

Welcome to episode 1009 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home

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is Brother Bill and Cam Gordon. Howdy, howdy. Hello. Hello, everyone. Hello, Brother Bill. Hello, Cam Gordon. It's been too long since we've gathered. Last time we got together like this, we dove deep into the history of New Wave in Canada. This week, we're diving deep into the history of heavy metal music in Canada. And when it came time to choose our subject matter expert

who would be joining us, I could only think of one person for the job. And right now it is my esteemed honor to welcome Martin Popoff to Toronto Mic for the very first time and hopefully not the last time. Welcome, Martin. Yes, thank you, Mike. Thanks for having me.

This will be fun. Well, thanks for being here. Like, for some of us, you don't need an introduction, but for those who have been living under a rock, could you maybe give us a little idea of, like, how did you become the go-to metal historian in this country? Well, I'm probably getting a little old to be called that. I mean, I think I'm the dad rock historian of the country now. But no, I would say, you know,

I was a huge metal head since sort of nine years old, I suppose. 1972 started getting into this stuff, you know, huge ramp up for the new wave of british heavy metal and i was just always into this music uh then uh 93 i did my first book which was a record review book of all heavy metal record reviews and then 1994 i ran into tim henderson and who was running the heavy metal department and at hmv and we started uh together the brave words and bloody knuckles it's it's more his thing but and and now he runs the the good high-traffic website of it. But we ran a print magazine from 94 through to 2008, 2009. And by this point, I've done about 120 books on hard rock and heavy metal.

And a lot of liner notes for a lot of other magazines, websites along the way, record bios, but a lot of stuff with Tim, a lot of stuff with Goldmine. And now, you know, with the change in the media atmosphere, it's more or less, I would say 80% of all my preoccupation is the books. So they're, they're coming pretty fast. So how many books did you say? 120? I don't think brother Bill has read 120 books in his life. Oh, Oh, I'm sure he has. Wow.

Not 120 heavy metal books. I'll tell you that. I'll be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah. But this is a mix of Prague and punk and, and a bunch of things, the record collecting books,

classic rock. More than just heavy metal, because I once booked Martin Popoff on Humble and Fred's show to talk about his Rush books. So Martin, if you remember your appearance on Humble and Fred there, I put you in the calendar, buddy. Cool, thank you.

God, here's a question. Why don't we jump right in? Is Rush metal? You know, I feel like similar to the punk Punk episode there's going to be a lot of was this and similar to New Wave episode too was Rush Metal I don't know this will be good and Martin

yeah this is awesome and you're just so prolific in these areas I feel like you probably written like two books just since Mike went live on Facebook this is going could be fun. I'm giving you my unqualified attention. So before we get in there and we will address that rush question for sure,

Cam, cause that's a good one. And we are focused on Canada here. The couple of like comments that came in from FOTMs, and I know Martin doesn't know what an FOTM, and I kind of like that, but he's like, what the hell are we talking about here?

But elephants and stars, when he heard that we were doing this episode, he just tweeted at me, Anvil versus Voivod. Like this was his with three exclamation marks. I consider him like the target audience for this episode of PPMM. And I'm just going to read this really lovely email he sent me earlier this morning. He said, I'm glad we're taking a deep dive into Canadian metal. Thanks for having Martin on. We are contemporaries and are on the same wavelength. I spent many a night in the 1980s,

mainly at Rock and Roll Heaven, watching my favorite bands, Lee Aaron, Santers, and Coney Hatch. And I've never missed these bands. I'm so proud of Local Boys Anvil as well. I have fond memories of the Q107 Homegrown albums,

which Santers were the winners one year. Bands from the Prairies like Kick Axe. The 1980s were prime time for Canadian metal. One of the most recent local bands I've loved is Diamonds. Keep up the great work and keep rocking. Wow. Thank you. Some deep, deep cuts there in that list.

I like that. Well, he had a follow-up question. So this is where I want to begin the conversation uh get right into it uh he wants to know and i want to know who do you guys think and particularly my subject matter expert uh martin popoff but who do you think was the first hard band or metal band from Canada? Well, you know, there's kind of like a hipster answer to that, and that would probably be War Pig. You know, where were they from? London, Ontario, I guess. And they put out a slightly doomy album, but it's not really that heavy. It's a little bit like a cross between the original Deep Purple and the in rock Mark II Deep Purple. So it's not

that impressive. But if you want to look at someone who kind of did it over and over again, three, four heavy songs per album, BTO. BTO would be 73, sorry, yeah, 73, May 73, December 73, Sorry. Yeah, 73. May 73, December 73, 74 for Bachman Turnover Drive 2 and Not Fragile and Four Wheel Drive in 75. So you've got four pretty heavy records there from 73 to 75. And the stamina cold Travel down the long and hardy road Smoke on the map, hot things have been there before

Smoke on the door, let the cold run its course Smoke on the corner, folks are starting to rise I don't need no ticket, so I drink out of size Smoke goes by, that's all I can see Look in the sign, we're in the wrong place Move out of course, let's get ready to race 454's coming over the hill The man on the troll's gonna give us a fill

I'm still short, you know the distance is long I'd like to have a chance, but it's all in the sun Drive back in the cab, cause I'm in the box We gotta keep moving, if we're gonna make it back Let it go Down the highway Let it go Down the highway Go! Let it go Let it go Let it go Let it go

Let it go I'm not a fool guitar solo Let it go Let it go Let it go Let it go Let it go Let it go Let it go Down the highway Let it go

Down the highway Go, go, let it go Down the highway Let it roll, got my heart beat Let it roll, got my heart beat Go, go, go Let it roll, got my heart beat People have pointed out, does Steppenwolf count? You know, you got three guys, they take off to LA. Not that heavy a band.

I think they're a little overrated, but Born to be Wild is a super, super important heavy metal song for saying heavy metal thunder and just being heavy. It has, it's, it's power chords. It's a riff. It's an extreme vocal. They had a few other heavy songs, but you know, when you uproot and then you have some Americans join and you're in LA and you're not really, you know, it's kind of the Neil Young situation. Do they really count? I don't know. So I, I would say, I would say put aside the hipster answer and go with, go with BTO. I'm shocked. So Cam and brother, as usual, you chime in whenever you like. Yeah. I just would, I think that's a really interesting choice and if for some reason i was thinking about this i think i was listening to that new radio station today in the car and

like rolling down the highway or something came on and it just sort of struck me if it wasn't for the get i almost feel like bto's under remembered for how big and how many awesome songs they have because just obviously the guess who is such a big cultural presence but like btos awesome martin did you ever see them live in their original incarnation they seem like they'd be very loud in concert those guys no i'll get to that in a sec but i i do want to uh make sure i you know i i semi forgot i was going to talk about them at some point but april wine as well um because you've got on record you got stand back is 73 that's already their third or fourth album electric jewels is in there right um there's april wine april wine yeah april wine april wine on record there's electric jewels there's stand back each of those has three-ish heavy songs on them as well Gonna catch a flight to Nevada, leave her friends at home in L.A.

Seven come eleven or blackjack, gambling night and day. Yeah, cause she's a roller now, a high roller baby. Yeah, she is, she's a roller now, a high roller baby. All right Whoo! Ooh, she likes to play for double or nothing She's bailing on the boys, she's hot Cause everybody knows she's ready, yeah To give it everything that she got

Ooh, she's a roller, yeah A high roller, baby, my, my Ooh, she's a roller, yeah A high roller, baby Look out Oh! Yeah! Oh! guitar solo Oh, oh, oh. guitar solo If a daughter tells us she's crazy

She doesn't hear what words they say, yeah We'll be right back. She's a roller, roller, roller, baby She's a roller, roller, roller, baby She's a roller, roller, roller, baby Bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye Bye bye But no, Cam, to answer your question, I mean, growing up in Trail, B.C., didn't see a lot of big bands. You know, Kaminko Arena, you saw the odd thing come through. Sugar Love, we had our own, we had our own local heavy metal band. That was one of the first bands I saw a lot, which was Carol

Brothers out of Kelowna. But otherwise, we would have to go to Spokane, Washington for, for concerts, which is two and a quarter hours due south, right? And my first concert was Ted Nugent, Rex, and Bebop Deluxe on the Free For All Tour. But literally in the 70s, you know, we did the family truckster vacations in the camper van across Canada. And I did See April Wine in 79 and Kiss in 77. But other than that, nothing else of importance in the 70s did I see. It was Bebop Deluxe. that was kind of like a pub rock band i feel like they were like matta hoopoe and like bands like that they were kind of not pub rock i would i would use the term glam and i would use the term progressive rock um to to describe

them bill nelson they were the middle the the debut band was rex you know rex smith of of you know later on you know sooner or later and pirates and Penzance and a soap opera fame, but Rex, their first two albums, you know, they were managed by Leber Krebs. David Krebs is a good friend of mine. We're, we talk once a week, but, but they were a heavy metal band. They had a first album called Rex, second album called, where do we go from here? 76 and 77, metal band. They had a first album called Rex, second album called Where Do We Go From Here, 76 and 77. Both basically sound like Aerosmith crossed with Ted Nugent. So Rex was pretty heavy

at that time. Wow. I got a question for you, Martin, jumping back a little bit, talking about your early days in Trail, British Columbia. Why did you get so into heavy metal? What was it about the music that took you to the next level, if you will? That's one thing to listen to the music, but to actually pick up a typewriter, if you will, or go to a typewriter and start writing books about it, what was it that drew you originally to this kind of music? That'd be a hard answer. I mean, basically as a kid, I just remember myself and my

buddies, as soon as we heard Nazareth, Razamanaz, the opening chords and double bass and Dan's voice on that and Zeppelin 4, I think was probably, Zeppelin 3 is probably the first one I heard, but Zeppelin 4, Volume 4, Master of Reality, BTO, those were all the earliest ones. And essentially, you know, I remember distinctly hearing Black Dog, you know, how extreme that vocal was and how extreme that riff was and how distorted the production was. heavy metal, just like, just like guys are drawn to it. It's a, it's a little bit like, you know, hanging around a hot car and opening the hood and listening to that engine roar kind of thing. Right. Where, where did you hear it? Where did you hear it? Did you hear it on the radio there? Or did you, did you hear it in friends' basements, like big brothers with the albums? Where did you hear the music? Yeah, it was, it was more, I would say, from albums. I mean, we had a good FM radio station out of Spokane called Creme FM that played all that

stuff. But it was more like just learning about it through Circus Magazine as well, Circus Cream hit creator, but buying records, just instantly, instantly buying records. But yeah, you're right, older, not, I didn't have an older brother, but I had an older cousin or two. And my, my partner in crime for us too, who, who was as fanatical as I was, he had an older brother who even played guitar and was in bands and stuff. So he would get the stuff and it would filter down. Now, gentlemen, I'm just going to go back to Steppenwolf for a minute to, to paraphrase Gino Vanilli. Can we get off Steppenwolf already? Because Mike was born to be wild.

Right. So, okay. So I know, Martin, you just alluded to the fact that the first time we hear the words heavy metal in a song's lyric, that's Born to be Wild, which is Steppenwolf's 1968 single. And I know you were kind of, it sounded like you might be disqualifying them for a couple of reasons. One is you were kind of taking away their Canadiana because they were based in the States. But so I'm just going to bring us back to like the mid 60s because

Steppenwolf was originally a Toronto based band called the Sparrows. And then they changed their name to Steppenwolf. And it is definitely, of course, Canadians. I'll just shout out John K. Goldie McJohn and Jerry Edmonton, Canadians in this band. So I would just argue that Steppenwolf, without a doubt, is a Canadian band. And whatever comes our way Yeah, I gotta go make it happen Take the world in a loving place Fire all of the guns and pots and Explode into space I like smoking lightning

Heavy metal thunder Racing with the wind And the feeling that I'm under. Yeah, darling, go make it happen. Take the world in a loving embrace. Fire all the livers at one time. Explode into space, like a true nature's child We were born, born to be wild We can climb so high

I never wanna die Born to be wild Born to be wild guitar solo We'll be right back. I never wanna die Born to be wild Born to be a metal band? Am I paraphrasing you wrong? Yes, I would agree with that. Hang on, I'll just show you something. Okay, awesome.

I wrote a book called... Wait, did I hear Martin Popoff wrote a book? Yes, I did. So I wrote a book called Who Invented Heavy Metal? Okay. It's 120,000 words and it ends in 1971. Okay. So that's everything but the kitchen sink. Right.

So, so I could give you such a long answer on this, but I mean, Steppenwolf is essentially, they were not that heavy. They're, they're, they're even slightly lighter than an iron butterfly.

They're like a hard psych band, but to me it goes more or less. Well, okay. I won't, I won't go too far back into crazy stuff about inventing Wawa and distortion pedals and all that, but cream,

Jimi Hendrix, blue chair, uh, MC five stooges. That, that basically lays it out. And then the true proper invention is February the 13th, uh, 1970,

the first Black Sabbath album. That's why we put that on the cover. My buddy Monty Connor went to the UK and shot that picture at the mill. I was going to say, is that, I forget, was that Alistair Crowley's house? Am I imagining that? No, that's a mill. That's just a mill. I thought it was my house in Brampton, Ontario in 1969.

So, okay, you also mentioned War Pig, because I'm still kind of reeling from the BTO reveal there, but War Pig makes sense then, because in 1970, War Pig is from Woodstock, Ontario, and that's more of like along with, you mentioned Blue Cheer and Black Sabbath. So I thought maybe I'd hear War Pig out of you, but BTO did catch me by

surprise to hear BTO as a sort of Canada's first metal. Yeah. Well, see, the problem is the War Pig album isn't really that heavy. Um, and it's a little kind of amateurish and stuff. I mean, I, I interviewed the guys and actually put the story of that album in one of my, one of my books on these, these early right but um and bto is not that heavy either but right the point is is is you know across four albums even even three albums probably you could make a heavy metal album out of the heaviest songs on those first three albums so that's that's getting there and april wine's kind of the same thing you could take four albums and make at least one heavy album out of it and again again, go ahead, Ken. I can't believe I'm going to reference another book because we have a guest here who's written

120 of them. A book that Martin didn't write in the book Rock and Roll Toronto. Are you guys familiar with this book written by FOTM Richard Krauss as well as John Goddard? Wow. I just remember I used to live on St. George Avenue for many years with my ex-wife right out of school. And in the book there's actually a section about John Kay writing the lyrics or something to Born to be Wild sitting in a car on St. George, which

was a real mind blow when I read it. So shout out to FOTM Richard Krauss for giving us a little inside knowledge. But Mike, I'm curious, do you consider Mamas and the Papas a Canadian band? No, that's a bridge too far. That's a bridge too far. But I think most reasonable people

would consider Steppenwolf a Canadian band. Absolutely. If we do get to it, I actually made a list of, did you know metal bands that do have Canadian members? Do you want to do that right now? Because then at some point, of course, and I'm glad we

mentioned April Wine because bonus points for any mentions of FOTMs and Miles Goodwin, of course, and FOTM. Cam, do that right now because sometimes we say we're going to get back to these great things and we run out of time. Let's just do these rapid fire.

And Martin, let me know, because I bet you've probably interviewed a lot of these people. So we've got James Labrie, Dream Theater. Yeah, before I answer that, when one of us gets serious about putting these plaques up around Toronto, I love that idea about putting a plaque up on St. George. Oh my God, I would love that. I love that idea about putting a plaque up on St. George. Oh my God. I would love that.

Like it was like an apartment. Wouldn't that be amazing? Yeah. I'm glad to hear it. I just want to, I'm very pro plaque. Like it's one of my things is to get a plaque. I want to do this too one day.

Yeah. Get a hundred plaques up about this. Make Toronto a music town that people visit from all over the world to find all these plaques and take pictures with. I was just talking to Scott Turner, F-O-T-M, Scott Turner, about the fact that I want a plaque where the MEC, the New Mountain Equipment Co-op at Spadina and Queen there, that's where the I'm an Adult Now video was filmed, Pursuit of Happiness, and I want a plaque commemorating

where that video took place. I want more plaques. The ones I want are the ones where the studios have been torn down and they're no longer there. Like the place where they recorded Black Sabbath Never Say Die and Max Webster, whatever,

that would have been a mutiny up my sleeve at that point. The Rush ones, Toronto Sound, there's got to be these, they should be all over the place. Agreed. So Cam, before your game, can we get the answer to the Rush question right now? Because I know Martin's the go-to Rush bass guy.

Brother will be back. Brother will be back. But Martin, maybe you should word it again, Cam, so we revisit it. But what's your question about? Sure. It's Rush Metal. Well, okay.

So here's the thing. So, so that, that first Rush album is actually the best example for probably first heavy metal album out of Canada. So, so it's, it's heavy enough by, by enough stretches beyond any BTO album or any April Wine album that Rush rush 1974 should be considered the first heavy metal album out of Canada. And yes, they're metal because really a 2112 was a pretty rock and album.

There's a, there's a lot of heavy stuff of course, on caressive steel and fly by night and not so much farewell to Kings. I remember at 14 years old being really ticked off at rush when that album came out, cause it wasn't heavy enough. It wasn't as heavy as 2112 put it that way uh hemispheres kind of got a little heavy again but rush is progressive metal right so so it's it's a really obvious it's like how i describe it is that whole reese's peanut butter cup thing it's like it's so

plainly obvious that all that what it does and, and they invent a music genre out of it, is they smash progressive rock into heavy metal, and it becomes progressive metal. Rush is basically progressive rock with the distortion pedal on it. Oh, say now, I'm coming to get you. Oh, say now, I'm coming to find you. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I'm finding my way. I've been down the road. I lost count of the years. Well, I sang some sad songs.

Oh, yes, and cried some bad tears. Look out, I'm coming in. Oh, yeah. Редактор субтитров А.Семкин I'm coming back for you. You're talking to the right, but you're talking to someone wrong. Nothing on each night, when I sing my summer song. Look how I'm coming, oh, oh. Look how I'm coming, oh yeah. I'm running my way back home I'm coming Ooh, baby, I said I'm running Oh, baby, I said I'm coming

To get your mama, I said I'm running Ooh, baby, I said I'm coming to get you, mama. I said I'm running. Oh, babe, I said I'm coming. I said I'm running. Oh, yes, babe, I said I'm coming to get you, babe. I said I'm coming. Oh, yeah. I'm finding, I'm finding my way back home I've had it for now

Living on the road Oh yeah Oh yeah Yeah guitar solo Música I'm fine here, I'm finding my way back home I've had it for now, I'm living on the road Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah Yeah, oh yeah Oh, say now I'm coming out to get you Okay. Okay, so you could argue, now that I'm connecting these dots, that possibly Rush is the first Canadian heavy metal band, not BTO.

Yeah, well, you know, we've talked about songs, we've talked about album, and we've talked about band. So now we're into a metaphysical thing. Like, did BTO invent heavy metal? Are they the first band because they're 33% heavy metal on all four of those first albums? Or did Rush do it because they're 71% on Rush Rush? So here's what I know, Mike. And I apologize.

I've been coming in and off with video. I'm having all kinds of technical glitches on my end, and I may cut out on you, but I'll talk anyway. I agree with Martin. I think the first Rush album, also the first Triumph album, were probably some of the early days, very, very early days of heavy metal in this country, and definitely that first Rush album.

It's a little early for my time, but when I think back to my introduction to heavy metal, which was, you know, of course, somebody put on the Back in Black album from ACDC, and then I kind of went down the rabbit hole. Rush's first album and Triumph's first albums were the two Canadian albums I remember that were quote-unquote heavy metal. I mean, we can talk about April Wine, and we can talk about BTO, and we can talk about Steppenwolf and things like that, but I can't associate those guys with heavy metal,

and perhaps that's because my area of heavy metal was the early 80s into the early 2000s, I guess, when I was quite into the scene. And, you know, music just got heavier and heavier and heavier to me. You look at Toronto, we can talk about Toronto in the 80s with the likes of Slaughter and Sacrifice and the label Diabolic Force. Martin, I know you know all about these guys. And that was kind of some pretty heavy stuff that was going on. A band called Annihilator out of Ottawa.

But, I mean, we're jumping too far ahead, I know. So we're going to dive deep into the 80s. We can get to that later. Yeah, we're definitely going to get into the 80s. But right now, back to Cam Gordon. He's got the, what do you call in this section? I call this a mini quiz. If I might,

if I might interject just before we leave 1976 and that triumph comment, Bill, at this point, I think Moxie's first album is 75, I believe. And then he's his first album, which is as heavy as the Moxie and both are heavier than the triumph. That's definitely 76.

So I don't know times yeah i don't know you've got the first triumph for sure it's pretty heavy uh but but the moxie and the t's are both heavier than the triumph okay and i feel like helix showed up around this time no helix is 79 and 80 and they're not very heavy at that point they're still on the indie label and they're i think it's or no 80 and 81 i believe uh but their first their first uh proper album on capital when they become a proto early hair metal band is 83 okay very interesting okay hit us with that mini quiz uh mr gordon that's a good number 83 is a good number we got to talk about that year because that year was pretty significant for heavy metal for sure there there's there's i'll just say there's a lot more meat on this bone than i i thought than when we mike suggested it because i i've also got all the 2000s bands

when you start thinking about bands like kitty and protest the hero and cheerleader but we'll get to them in a second okay five hours later okay so this is a quick did you know and i bet martin knows all this this is probably secondhand but just the listeners so these are like non-canadian metal bands with canadian members i'm just gonna go through all these in rapid order so we got james labrie uh from dream theater born born in Penetanguishene, hometown of Brian Orser. There's a little Esri. In prison.

There you go. We got Bernie Shaw from Uriah Heep. We've got Glenn Drover, who was in Megadeth and King Diamond. We have another member of Megadeth, Martin, correct me if I'm wrong. Sean Drover. Must be brothers. I'm guessing. We've got

Penty Glan from the Alice Coopers band. Deceased. We've got Stacy Blades from LA Guns. So we've got Logan Mader from Machine Head. A couple more here.

We got Carl Aguil from Corrosion of Conformity, who I feel like we're sort of in the thrash, more punk scene originally, like out of the Carolinas. Crossover. Crossover. And then a couple, here's three fun ones to end us off. This is not

a metal band, but I'm just going to say it anyway. Phil X. Phil X from Bon Jovi. Current guitarist. I think, yeah, replaced Richie Sambora, I believe. For the fans of the Squared Circle, we got Chris Jericho from Fozzy. I'm not sure that's a metal band. Right.

They're a good metal band, too. Yeah. Last but not least, I'm amazed I did not know this band. Right. Oh, definitely. They're a good metal band, too. Yeah. Last but not least, I'm amazed I did not know this guy was Canadian. This blew my mind. And shout out to Ridley Funeral Home because this guy left us a few years ago. Odorous Orangus Debrocki from Guar. Born in Ottawa.

I didn't know that. I never knew that. That he was born in Ottawa. A couple more. Doug, do you have any more? Yeah, someone I think you missed on that list, Cam, and maybe it's not, well, I guess it would be Heavy Metal, and I think he's Canadian.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he's an American and the band was Canadian. I'm getting mixed up. But was Sebastian Bach not Canadian? Yeah, definitely. Of course, of course, yes. There we go. Yeah, another one, and not a big one, but Daniel McMaster, who sadly has left us. Right.

Right. From Bonham. Ian Astbury. He lived in Hamilton. I don't think he was born in Hamilton. I'm not sure. He's from the UK. But he was.

It's funny. This just came up on a recent episode of Toronto Mike. But he was, I don't know know 12 or so when he moved to Hamilton something like that and yeah he sort of was influenced his musical influences all strike him during his Hamilton years I do like

Mike this is a favorite topic of you and me in 1236 people who lived in Canada briefly because David Byrne certainly not metal but David Byrne I was Cam I was going to say briefly because uh david that's certainly not metal but david burn no i was good cam i was gonna say when we do when we do an episode on uh heavy metal gods that worked at stelco we could get ian as a guest love it that's that's metal that's some heavy metal like literally there there's also brent fitz uh brent fitz who um uh and i think he's got a

brother but he's played with a lot of the hair metal bands i think he's from the prairies originally yeah he's playing in slashes band right now okay yeah so it was the uh recent uh jam kicking with jeff lumby where we talked about ian ashbury being uh you know from hamilton if you will but definitely born in the UK. Okay, gentlemen, so again, I'm learning a lot from you guys as we kind of dive deep into metal in Canada. So maybe this is a good question for Martin.

And I'm saying, I'm hammering the T in Martin because for years I was criticized for saying Martin as if it was a D. So I just want everybody to know I'm making a great effort. I get both, yeah. It's funny when you say it. It's like, it's awkward either way, right? I was, because I would, you know,

speak quite a bit about the late great Martin streak and people would be like, you know, it's Martin with a T, not a D. So I'm trying really hard here. But let's like, tell me like metal when it sort of evolves into what we refer to as glam metal, maybe a little bit about in the 1980s when we think about 80s metal, when it sort of evolves into what we refer to as glam metal, maybe a little bit about in the 1980s, when we think about 80s metal, it's primarily glam metal, right? Well, for Canada, as Bill, you've rightly pointed out, thrash actually has a little more of a higher profile for Canada than any of the forms of glam.

But Canada did not really participate in the hair metal thing in a big way. Uh, the glam metal thing. I always split up glam metal from the early days and the later periods. So the early days is sort of your 83 and 84. And then your later days is your, is your, you know, 90, 91 when people are jumping on the bandwagon, there's the kind of the two things. you know, 90, 91, when people are jumping on the bandwagon, there's the kind of the two things. And so one of the interesting things, I think with Canada and glam metal is we had two of the great, great,

great proto glam bands that should have been huge. And that's Santer's and Coney hatch. So that's 80 to 82 before the whole thing even kicks off in a big way. So that's really cool because they were both so high quality and they could have been amazing, right? We are running from place to place We're running around like we're in a rat race Monkey bars Swinging stars

Counting cars By the monkey bars We've got a job in the Amazon Everyone's a joke, no out to con We go up the mountain, see lots of trees We get home in time to pay our Medicare speed Monkey bars Swinging stars Count the cars

By the monkey bars guitar solo It was easy when your chimps like us Banana splits are a definite plus Things will be better once we come our way out Our hands may slip, but we're not cause of doubt Monkey bars Swinging stars count the cars, by the monkey bars. Monkey bars, swinging stars stars Send up those bars By the monkey bars and then we got helix who starts as a very kind of like all over the place indie band from ottawa

on two records, right? Breaking Loose and White Lace and Black Leather. And then they signed with Capitol and they rejigged their whole sound. And they basically sound like a, like a Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister, Rat, Great White Band. And, you know, and they do, it's walking on the razor's edge, right? And then Wild in the Streets and that other, I think there's another couple in there and they, but they don't do that great out there in the marketplace um we had kick axe who i love that album is a masterpiece they're from saskatchewan uh and they're on pasha and

they're produced by spencer proffer that's 1983 and they make a few waves with heavy metal shuffle um so the early days we don't really have that much. Lee Aaron, I guess you could put in there in the early days. Later on, you've got your Brighton Rocks and Harem Scarums, and you can lean to your Honeymoon Sweets, and you've got Slick Toxic and Svengali, and it all basically, none of it really works. Loverboy is another good proto one proto one lover boy is right in there with your santers slightly lighter like but but in the same way that night ranger kind of fits this whole proto thing like who's molding the idea of putting hair metal together past aerosmith and van halen and motley crew but in tandem sort of thing so lover boy kind of a heavy band, kind of could have, well, they were huge, but they could have.

Oh, they still are out here, Martin. Yeah, but they were very big for a long time, but they were very big, but they didn't particularly, well, I guess they did cross into the hair metal thing pretty well by records third and fourth. But no, Canada basically sat that thing out or basically didn't didn't really do that well and i think a lot of that has to do with you have to move to la to be part of the hair metal thing if you didn't move there you were you were left out of the parties and you were semi-ostracized from the whole that's why all the none of the new wave of british heavy metal bands made it um that's why there really wasn't any of the scene in any other city is basically everybody who was from there or you moved there and the canadian bands didn't move there did were there any notable when you think of like that 80s sunset strip era other than sebastian bach were there any

canadians in there i mean i guess you had you had like Bob Rock would have been kind of around like sometimes Brian Producer or maybe not even. Like I feel like he wasn't. So Bob Rock's sitting in his throne in Vancouver waiting for those bands to come up to him to turn those records into. Yeah, he's in the payolas at this time. He has his studio. Rock and Hyde.

And he cut his teeth at Little Mountain Sound out here in Vancouver and worked with some, you know, he started by working with some of the up-and-coming punk bands in Vancouver and then graduated to, you know, the Black Album from Metallica. I mean, I'm just jumping from one extreme to the other. But Bob Rock is, uh, the most influential producer of hard music in the West and probably one of the top five guys in the world, I would say for,

for heavy metal and for music period. Yeah. Bruce Fairburn as well. I did an episode of my podcast, history on five songs with Martin Popoff called Go to Vancouver and Try Harder. So every every metal band at some point made that pilgrimage up there and made their best album. Essentially, they they sobered up as much as they could. You know, they hung out at the number five orange and, you know, but they were away from they were away from all the dealers in L.A. kind of of thing and so you've got huge albums by aerospace bon jovi a little bit of white snake a little bit of scorpions uh black and blue

let's go on you and you mentioned mr mr uh uh fairburn bruce fairburn so bruce fairburn owned a little mountain sound and bob rock and another guy named mike fraser were a couple of guys that worked with bruce uh learned from Bruce, if you will. And so, yeah, I agree with you, Martin. I think Bruce is probably the guy as far as producing goes in this country and wasn't until his death in, I believe, the late 80s, early 90s. Another good Duke of War out there, Mike Plotnikoff as well. Don't know that name. He's an engineer, sound guy, kind of like a Mike Fraser.

Okay. All right. There's a lot of, I mean, this is the one thing Vancouver has that Toronto doesn't have, and that is world, and not that they don't, Toronto does too, like metal works, et cetera. But I mean, when you're talking about recording some of the biggest heavy metal acts of all time, like you said martin

they came to vancouver because i guess they wanted to get far away from the lifestyle that they were used to meanwhile we have a downtown east side which can offer that to you if they just say yeah no no needle drugs in vancouver no brian adams studio is uh it's called what is it called the warehouse i can't remember i'm gonna mind blank anyway it's called now yeah there was mushroom little mountain uh yeah anyway i think it's called the warehouse it's in gas town you walk out of that you walk out of that studio acdc's done their last 15 albums there i think you walk out you turn right and there's a guy selling drugs like three feet from the front door so i don't know how they were escaping anything, but that's why they came to Vancouver because of studios and producers. If I can quickly, Mike, I know you want to jump in.

No, go ahead, brother. I'd like to get into talking a little bit about, you mentioned the glam scene and I completely agree with you, Martin. I come from a punk rock background or early eighties, but friends of mine that I went to school with, and I'll drop a couple, one name anyway, a guy named Dave Bush. He's a friend of mine, and I know he'll be listening, so shout out to Dave. Dave was like the king of metal, man. This guy, a guy named Milan Gosch, I went to school with, shout out to Milan, and a whole crew of guys. We're all into,

not the glam metal, they were into the thrash metal. And I talked to Dave before I came on today because I wanted to just get his take on what was going on in Toronto in the early 80s. And quickly, I'll just run it down for you. three albums he thought that were the crossovers to, or the way that punk and metal crossed over in the early eighties in Toronto. And they were all metal albums. Now everybody associates Metallica's kill them all with the album. That was the big crossover album where punk rockers and metal guys could hang out in the same club and not want to beat the shit out of each other.

And, but, you know, Dave, my friend Dave, when talking to me, made some great points. And he talked about three specific albums that were released before Kill Em All, all from Canadian bands that probably had more influence on the metal scene in Toronto in the early 80s, and those albums were Anvil's Metal on Metal, Voivod's War and Pain, and Exciter's Heavy Metal Maniac. I don't know if these bands ring a bell with you guys at all. I would like to spend, maybe, Martin, if we could dive a little

deeper into Anvil and Voivod to go back to Elephants and Stars' original point, but those, to me me are two huge Canadian metal success stories. I'd love to hear more about them. Okay, so first of all, just to correct. So to me, heavy metal was invented in 1970. To me, metal was invented in 1983 with Kill Em All.

Kill Em All is a different animal. It is truly the invention of thrash now uh anvil on the other hand anvil is a super super important band because they're they're essentially the greatest band that was ever in this short-lived thing called speed metal and so metal on metal is 82 forged in fire 83, and they are technical, gorgeously produced, you know, fast, furious, exciting albums. But the Metallica album, what happens is you get this discipline of palm muting and production and tightness that is the true invention of actual crash. Or like I like to say, you know,

younger kids, when they talk about heavy metal and they say metal, I think Kill Em All invents metal. So, very, very important. They're like a step past the new wave of British heavy metal, and that's why they're famous, and that's why they were famous enough

and worthy to have a movie made on them. Metal, metal Middle, middle, shaking the place Blues like your hair, caves in your face Middle, middle, feeling the grind Up through the heavens, the victims of fight Middle on middle, it's not the fight Denims and leathers, thieves and clans Keep on rockin', keep on rockin'

To this middle of the night Keep on boundin', keep on boundin' Join the heavy metal of night Middle of middle gets you so high Excitement and action, both as you buy Middle of middle, the heart and the brain True to the end, a fire to burn guitar solo Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Each has a right Kicking it out with screams and cries Metal on metal, never will die

Party's in concert, keep it alive Metal on metal, the only way To end tomorrow and save for today Keep on rockin', keep on rockin' To the smell of the night Keep on spoutin', keep on spoutin' Join the heavy metal fight Heavy metal fight

Metal on metal Metal on metal Now the Voivod album is 84. Yeah. So, but it's also, it's not that important in a certain respect. I mean, Voivod's one of the greatest artists Canada has ever produced in heavy music. Absolutely, hands down. Voivod and Devin Townsend are probably the two geniuses of our of our entire metal scene. But when when Voivod first started, they were more like an up ratchet on the on the super extreme version of like Bathory and Venom and Celtic Frost. So they they were noisy and extreme. They were in there on the ground floor of helping invent death metal uh more than anything so they were

they were too way too wild and way too noisy for thrash right because thrash thrash was a very disciplined almost academic thing when when you know metallica by the second and third album they're like practically made by professors at that point right um but and then Exciter is another interesting one. So Exciter is also 83 and that is, uh, that is also sort of one of the ground floor speed metal bands. So, so speed metal is essentially thrash played badly and drunkenly, um, without the palm muting, you know, a lot, a lot of crash cymbals and ride cymbals and high-hats that are open and uh and all that stuff right and and just like noise and wailing big big difference from the metallica album which is sounds like a finely tuned hot car right right um so excited but the the interesting thing about

exciter in interviewing those guys they go way back and so does anvil anvil goes way back i mean their first album i think think, is 81, and it's really heavy for 81 even, but it's not into the realm of this true invention that Anvil was partaking of when they did Metal on Metal and Forged in Fire. That's why they're so beloved and revered. Unfortunately, they didn't grow constantly

over the next bunch of years, or they would have been bigger, but those two records are super, super important. I'll stop quick a quick story no that's great martin i agree with you 100 a quick story um the day kill them all was released on megaforce records out of new york city it was released independently before it was picked up by uh by warner i believe um i was in the record peddler in Toronto, and a guy named Brian Taylor, whose name has to be dropped at least five times today because he is Toronto's king of metal.

No offense, Martin, you are too, but if you're the king, he's like right up there with you. So this guy was in a punk band called Youth, Youth, Youth back in the early 80s. He was one of the first guys to kind of cross over into the metal world, the thrash and speed metal world. He had a show on CKLN and he worked at the Record Peddler. And so I walked into the Record Peddler one day as a punk rocker and I walked out a heavy metal thrash punk rocker because he had Kill Em All playing on the record store. He used to do that. Remember, you'd go to a record store and they'd have some music playing and he had Kill them all playing on the in the record store used to do that remember

you'd go to a record store and they'd have some music playing and he had kill them all like on 11 and i'm like what the fuck is this and he goes he gives me the album the import copy and he says buy this fucking album right now go buy that t-shirt this is going to be the greatest man of all fucking time in this genre and i think he was right to tell you the truth you know and one of the funny things about that record i i remember years later uh phil anselmo from pantera described pantera as uh you know how there's the money riff on an album or a song it's like well we play the money riff all the time metallica kill them all was a bit like that too it It's almost like taking the few minutes of highlights from every single New Wave of British heavy metal album,

the greatest bits of every album, and then amping it up and just making it nonstop riffs. And that's why that album is a little less sophisticated than the next two, which are masterpieces, right? But I remember hearing that album for the first time as a new release and feeling like this is this is kind of different it it's like it's like everything a true metal fan would want to stick into a metal album neil yeah it blew my mind because i sorry go ahead cam uh why don't you finish that thought because this is gonna be a slight non-sequitur a bit of a call okay okay sure so i was gonna say it blew my mind because i was a kid that originally grew up listening to heavy metal uh you know black sabbath iron maiden uh acdc was my favorite and then i got into this punk rock stuff and and i loved it

and there was no i didn't it was like you know one side was metal one side was punk and literally when i walked into the record peddler that day and brian taylor was playing that the album kill them all i realized that heavy metal and punk rock could coexist together the way i used to coexist with my metal buddies at parties and basements in brampton ontario wow you know what i mean? This is going to be the callback. Neil, your comments there reminded me when we did our punk episode, it seemed like DRI was almost like a fulcrum band because they were

trash. I mean, still a punk band ostensibly, but I almost think of and this is not, I don't even think it's the same genre, but like DRI versus Slayer. Well, DRI crossed over into metal. Yeah, yeah.

And then I remember we were talking about Gang Green too. They got kind of silly where they had the ostentatious videos and stuff. Neil, a question for you. This is a classic question I feel like mike asked you every episode multiple times any of these toronto bands you know anvil or sacrifice or slaughter any of this shit get played on cfny like back in the day from what you were no i don't think so you know what i no we wouldn't we wouldn't touch it i mean q107 wouldn't even touch it i think maybe q107 had a show maybe they would play it once in a while like you know in the middle of the night one We wouldn't touch it. I mean, Q107 wouldn't even touch it. I think maybe Q107 had a show. Maybe they would play it once in a while, like, you know, in the middle of the night,

one o'clock in the morning on a Sunday when no one was listening. Hey, here's a Voivod song. But Martin, you can answer that probably. Did any radio play other than CKLN and maybe CIUT and college stations across the country? Well, yeah. So I didn't move here till 89, across the country well yeah so i didn't move here till 89 but i i can pretty much vouch for for no but i remember um i remember you know uh much music was pretty good for this kind of thing i remember people always talked about the voyvod ripping headaches video all the time right right later on so so they were pretty good, the Summits. And you'll be going crazy The insensitivity is the only aftershock Look at Sheeva as if you're one of us all Cause when I get here, the shit is just beginning It's one little before we see both of us again

I'm gonna find some bag of things for him Running in spitting blood, throwing eyes with knives In this place where everybody becomes mummified I don't know why we but you open the body door Anyway, you shall go where your feet leads me In some place, they'll look at us, it won't matter Maybe because we have an auto-structure Shut up the phones and you don't have the choice

Fuck you, wash your hands There's no chance to save your fucking brain No chance to save your pocket grain First time job squeeze the air, this I always did I want to drop my pen I'm not a fucking psycho Is the only option shot? The king shivers if you are a designer There are many mechs here, this is just the beginning It's worth it all before we sleep on Earth again Michael Rush, don't care There's no chance to save your crack and brain There's some chance we'll be here

There's always this I want to drop my bet I'm a drift game for pitchers Do you like it? I've got a plane to meet It's the red spaghetti I'm still smashing and my body is doing bad We don't care if you know the world will die We don't care if you know the world will die We don't care if you know the world will die

But this is music that was really, really heavy and also just really raw and nasty. I mean, when you start getting into sacrifice and razor and slaughter, like you're at a whole nother level. And honestly, though, you know, I've never sort of thought Canada had very much distinction in the heavy metal world for any reason whatsoever, except, well, actually two reasons. One, if you talk about it, are magazines. But I think this

is the one area where Canada did have a fairly impressive little bubble. And it's this idea of speed metal into thrash into death metal with these bands that were somewhat big and have become somewhat legendary. Yeah. And this was the advantage that Canada had over the United States and Europe. Canada took, and punk rock was like this too, Canada took the best from both scenes, what was going on in Britain and Europe and what was going on in California and sort of created their own. And the glam metal, the hair metal that Martin, we mentioned about what was happening on the Sunset Strip with the likes of Motley Crue and Faster Pussycat and bands like that, you know, LA Guns, all that kind of stuff. That kind of didn't, you know, it tried to get going in Toronto,

but never really happened. But you had like the city of Montreal, for instance, in the early 80s that had a label called Banzai, put on a great huge concert called World War III at the end of 1985. And they brought like Celtic Frost over. They brought Destruction over from Germany and these bands that were like nobody knew who the fuck they were at the time here in Canada but they this guy who owned this label called Bonsai and worked at a record store called

Rock and Stock in Montreal brought all these bands in and nobody fucking knew who they were I mean he he took the chance he said hey I'm gonna buy all these strange in and nobody fucking knew who they were. I mean, he, he took the chance. He said, Hey, I'm going to buy all these strange metal guys, these airplane tickets and get them to play a roller rink in, in, in Montreal. And that was the birth to me of that metal scene, or maybe it was the epicenter or the peak. I don't know, but I had to mention Montreal too.

It's a good point. Michelle Meese with those bonsai and everybody kind of figures they weren't, they wasn't run very well and they weren't paid for this. And these, these, some of these records are on the verge of, you know, piracy.

Apparently if, if you interview these bands, but the fact of the matter that there was a bonsai and that attic was putting out all the roadrunner stuff meant that Canada actually got domestic release of a lot of pretty underground European records. So I think that helped educate a bunch of Canadians, too. Absolutely. But you look at the first, sorry, guys, I'm going on for a long, and I'll stop. But you look at like the early Slayer stuff.

I mean, Banzai was the label putting this shit out because nobody else wanted to touch it. All right, I'll jump in here just to spotlight a couple of things that got mentioned over the last half hour there. One is, okay, so we talked about Anvil, Toronto's own Anvil, and Martin mentioned the film. And I just want to let people know that the film is Anvil, the story of Anvil, and it's awesome. I love this film.

It came out in 2008, and i just want to recommend that to anyone listening to check out anvil the story of anvil and and lips had a birthday two days ago that i think our friend 1236 pointed out happy 66th birthday to steve lips uh absolutely good job absolutely and uh martin mentioned his, and I just want to let people know, if you like the rap on this guy, Martin Popoff, he not only writes these books, 120 of them, but this podcast, History in Five Songs, is great. So thank you, Martin, for that.

I subscribe, I listen, and I thoroughly enjoy it. Good job. Yeah, it's fun. It's mostly stuff like this. It's mostly hard rock and heavy metal and prog and a little bit of punk and stuff. Bill, I just wanted to mention on the punk end, we always were always ticked off about how there weren't there that many heavy punk albums from Canada. I mean, for us, it started with the first Diodes, but not the second

and not the third. And then years later, it you know, years later, it's, it's the first couple from DOA, actually all the DOA, but also that for subhumans is really heavy, right? Incorrect. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, there wasn't, I mean, coming out of the UK again, you had the likes of GBH and discharge in the eighties and they were sort of almost a crossover discharge, especially, but as far as Canada goes, Brian Taylor had his label and he was dealing with a whole bunch of people. I think he worked with the band Sacrifice,

I believe so, anywhere, Slaughter, one of the two. And I'm trying to remember his label. Diabolic Force was the label. Diabolical Force, yeah. Yeah, and he worked with Razor, I think, for a little bit, maybe. There was a couple of bands that maybe you don't, you probably, I don't even know if you know the Martin Death Militia. Does that ring a bell with you at all?

No. Or the band Beyond from my hometown of Brampton? Yeah. Yeah, so they were these kind of guys that were trying to go heavier, but it's funny. It's kind of like the punk scene in that era and when I say that I mean Brian Taylor sang about this when he was in youth youth youth when the local boys play you sit in your seats so they didn't really like they liked all the European heavy shit but they didn't like

Canadian heavy stuff and we've talked about exciter I think about the song Violence and Force, and that song was frigging heavy, but as you said, kind of sloppy and not really technical. But no, I can't think of anybody off the top of my head, maybe with the exception of Strapping Young Lad with Devin Townsend, that tried to go heavy and technical at the same time and managed to pull it off. I don't know. What do you think? Well well when you're way up to strapping young lad there's also a whole our second really good scene which is the quebec technical death metal scene so cataclysm and gorguts and marduk and despised icon all all those bands out of there so by the time you get to strapping you know we're

up into around 1995 97 98 so now we've jumped forward another 10 years. So there is a lot of technical stuff, but, but the big, the big thing that ever, you know, in terms of any sort of a global reach or, or, Hey, wow, what a great scene do you have? It's that, it's that technical death metal scene, like virtuoso players, very complicated stuff out of those bands out of quebec that is uh you know and just to mention something we always heard when we were running

the magazine is um is that 50 of all heavy metal sets are in the province of quebec right it's amazing yeah so i was gonna say like i feel like quebec has its own bubble that and correct me if i'm wrong like in my mind, because I'm not a big metal guy, I'll admit that. By the way, just in case she doesn't get a shout out, shout out to FOTM and Canada's metal queen, Lee Aaron. Just in case her name doesn't come up, but I digress.

Who I ran into a month ago. Oh yeah, because she's West Coast. Well, you're both Brampton people, right? Well, we are, but she lives out here now. They were well-received, and she did well in Kerrang! Magazine and all over the place, and it was all Attic Records, I think, at the beginning, right?

Yeah, like, she's covered in this. She comes like thunder, rising from the ground. She'll bring you under, she pulls a lot of sound. She holds a passion like no other could Now once you've chosen words understood Riding electric song So get a ticket, you've just got to get on Now free Just come to me now Metal Queen

Metal Queen Take one to see her move across the stage One single motion turns into a rage She holds her power like no other man Now what you want is catch her if you can Ride the moon in the electric song So get a ticket You can start to get on Metal Queen Metal Queen Metal Queen Battle Queen Face the soul Battle Queen Face the soul

Battle Queen She comes like thunder, rising from the ground She takes you under, she moves without a sound She reeks of power like no other man Well now she'll run and catch her if you can Riding electric song So get a ticket you've just got to get up Night of the free Night of the free

Night of the free Let's go! Nile Queen Let's go! Nile Queen Let's go! Yo! I think of like Quebec's almost like metal bubble, sort of similar to like a lot of stuff you saw in like Finland and like Sweden in terms of like the real, like intense stuff. Would that be accurate?

Again, I say this is kind of a metal light. Yes. And also they have a second scene, the progressive metal scene, the progressive metal scene or the progressive rock scene in general. A lot of progressive metal bands or prog bands would record their live albums in Quebec

because they got such an enthusiastic response there. Yeah. So they like the progressive... Yeah. Go ahead, brother. I was going to say, when I think of Montreal, I think of a man called Groovy Aardvark, who if you go to Quebec now, they still talk about this band groovy ardvark it's a kind of a weird

name it doesn't really sound metal um but they and they don't really sound metal anymore i don't think but that's one of those bands that if you know the quebec scene from the 80s and into the 90s you probably know groovy ardvark and Grimmskunk was a crossover metal grunge band. Yeah. Actually, if you guys remember, there was a big festival. I think it was Heavy Montreal or Heavy Quebec. And you would see Grimmskunk would be on the third or fourth line up there with Sum 41 or Megadeth or whoever was playing.

Kind of the crossover metal. They're like Grimmskunk right up there. Yeah, absolutely. They'd bring in, for that festival, they'd bring in a big name, and then they'd have smaller names with a lot of Quebec represented. I know we talk about Quebec a lot,

but we have to when you're talking about heavy metal in this country, because to me, Quebec was the home of heavy metal. Did you guys spend a lot of time at, I think, the original club at Yonge and Bloor, Rock and Roll Heaven, that was in the basement, I feel like is a Dollarama now? Was that like

an epicenter of that stuff? I know that, and Gasworks, and perhaps Larry's Hideaway, to some degree, was where a lot of these sacrifice and killer dwarves, I don't think we've mentioned. Well, that's actually, thank you for going to the venues here. I was going to steer us back to the glam metal of the 80s here,

just because as a guy who was listening to Q107 and watching much music, a lot of these bands really hit me at the right time. So could we spend a moment maybe and talk about Killer Dwarfs? Martin, what can you tell us about Killer Dwarfs? maybe and talk about Killer Dwarfs. Martin, what can you tell us about Killer Dwarfs? Yeah, so they were a band that started off, their records were kind of like hair metal crossed with traditional metal.

They kind of got more technical and moved up the ladder. Unfortunately, they didn't move too far along. They were probably seen a little bit as a novelty act. Dirty Weapons, I think is one of their albums, right? Yes. Is that their third album? That was a big Q107 little bit as a novelty act. Dirty Weapons, I think, is one of their albums, right? Yes. Is that their third album? That was a big Q107. That was a big one, Dirty Weapons.

Yeah, so they did all right, you know, with the tricycles and all that kind of thing. But another band that didn't cross over, another band probably a good example of had everybody just uprooted and moved to LA, they could have done something, right? It's really hard To keep believing you Don't want to lose you Got your weapons Fire this one's about to fail Got your weapons, oh yeah To take me is crucial

Lockdown For a trigger Shutdown Interceptor High price Competition No winner Save on the future It's getting really hard

To keep believing you Don't want to lose Dying weapons But you never thought to fail Dying weapons, oh yeah It's what death leaves you with Mae'n ddangos i mi fod yn dda iawn. Mae'n ddangos i mi fod yn dda iawn. Mae'n dd y byddwn ni'n gwneud. To make you change your ways We don't have time to waste Yeah

We're just standing face to face It's getting really hard To keep believing you Don't want to lose Gun and weapons Are you built for fun and fun? Gun and weapons, oh yeah To disgust me into death Gun and weapons, yeah Dyna wefn, oh yeah Dyna'r sgwrs i'ch ddod

Dyna wefn, yeah Mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol Dyna wefn, oh yeah Dyna'r sgwrs i'ch ddod Dyna'r sgwrs i'ch ddod Mae'n ddiddorol Dwi'n credu arnoch but you look at you look at slick toxic and sven galley like two hilarious examples of bands that the first record is hair metal. And the second record is grunge. I think in both cases.

So, so they both, both of those bands decided, okay, we're going to make that. We're going to make that shift. Everybody's telling us probably you're going to lose our record label. If we don't make the shift.

Right. When, when all of that happened in 91 or whatever, but who changed their name to rubber? One of those bands. No. Yeah. They became like a alt rock band we'll talk here i think it was harum scarum i think okay tomato tomato well cam since we said the words the magic words harum scarum i believe there's a degrassi schools out angle here somewhere, right? Fuck, thank you. Thank you, Michael.

Yes, the Degrassi School's Out soundtrack is like half harem scarem and then like one song by The Spoons and one by Malcolm Byrne. And of course, Gowan. None of this stuff is metal. And Gowan's not metal, right? Yeah.

They actually became a really kind of smart, cool, interesting band, harem scarem. And they got to be really big. Was it Japan? Japan. Massive in Japan, right? Yeah. Big in Japan.

That's not just an Alphaville song, but also the story of Harem Scare. Or rubber. We were talking about the dwarves. Yeah. And I didn't want to run away too fast from them because, first of all, quickly, were they from Scarborough? Is that where the dwarves are from? Killer dwarves?

Or were they from Toronto? Did anybody know? Okay, anyway. Definitely GTA. I'll dig it up while you talk about them. Okay, quick story for you. In the 1990s, I'm on a boat. You remember those boats?

Oshawa. Oshawa. Oshawa. That would make sense. Anyway, so you remember you'd go on those tours through the harbor in Toronto and you'd go through the islands and stuff and they'd have some events on it. So there was a band called Not By Choice who were from Ajax or something. They were like supposed to be the next Sum 41.

They were like mall punk, right? Yeah. Like Simple Plan. Yeah, nice bunch of guys. And we got invited to go to their CD release party on this boat. And my buddy Mike's on the boat. My buddy Mike Rice, this guy named Shag, who was my producer in the 90s at CFNY. And he introduces me to this dude.

And he says, hey, this is my buddy Daryl. And I said, hey, how you doing, Daryl? And he goes, all right. We start talking. And it turns out it's Daryl Dwarf. And the first thing I noticed was the fucking guy is six foot eight. How can you be in the fucking killer dwarves and be six foot eight? I didn't get that.

It's ironic. It's an ironic nickname here. And while we're in this era, it's ironic. Yeah. A couple of bands. I also want to ask you guys about, so you mentioned slick toxic.

I seem, I remember slick toxic as like skid row wannabe band. Is that, is that fair to say? Slick Toxic. I remember Slick Toxic as like Skid Row wannabe band. Is that fair to say Slick Toxic was like Toronto's answer to Skid Row? Yes, and this brings up that whole thing, Bill, that you were mentioning that, you know, Canadian fans kind of eat their own. They definitely are not super supportive and possibly it's because of having CanCon drilled into us all our lives or whatever, but also, you know,

we do have this inferiority complex that there are all these bands like a Slick Toxic. Are they on a major label? Well, not really. They're only signed out of Canada, really. I mean, that's why they're on the major label. They're on the branch major label. right? But, you know, Slick Toxic is one of those that kind of had that in-your-face thing of, we're going to have the stupid spelling of the name and the kind of dumb band name, and we are going to look like we're really following that trend. And so, any Canadian fan looking at someone from local, so the grass is always greener elsewhere. This is like, there's nothing dramatic about being local. Right. So, so they're

just going to look through that and say, oh, you're just trying to cash in or whatever. And Nick Walsh is an amazing talent. Right. And so is a band. And when they, and when they did go grunge, they got even better. Right. But that's's that's the thing i i think all canadian fans kind of looked at our hair metal scene and we just cried foul it just none of it ever really rang true and if i can that's true jump on that for a moment here uh before i forget so i recently martin this is news for you i know brother bill and cam know this but i recently had uh brian volmer on the show for the first time so we did did like a 90 minute deep dive. And of course he's got this, you know, harrowing tale of like, where he's working for minimum wage at a hasties market and he gets mugged. And then you step back

and realize, okay, so Helix is Brian Vollmer because he didn't want to go on welfare. He's too proud a man for that. He's working at a hasties market and I got nothing but maximum, He's too proud a man for that. He's working at a Hasties market and I got nothing but maximum, like through the roof, respect for Brian and his decision to work at the Hasties market. But that kind of is an interesting story of the kind of the Canadian star system here, where, you know, a band like Helix, which I considered, like, I'm not sure, Martin, if you agree with me, but I consider Helix like one of those 80s metal bands that we produced in this country. And your lead singer, songwriter is going to end up working at a grocery store. I feel like that's the opening scene of the Anvil documentary where one of the guys is doing like Meals on Wheels and driving around like Downsview area. and drive around Downsview area. To have the realities of... Hey, to his credit though, in his heyday, Brian, right? Brian dated a girl and went to high school

by the name of Brenda Van Halen. No relation. Brenda Van Halen was the hottest metal chick in my high school. So good for Brian for that. If he's listening, well done, sir. So Martin Popoff, what do you say about metal chick in my high school. So good for Brian for that. If he's listening, well done, sir. Yeah. So Martin Popoff, what do you say about, you know,

the place Helix has in all this and the realities of being a Canadian metal star in the 80s? Well, okay. So this is, to me, this is one of the big tragic situations because those Helix albums in a row were absolutely the ones from say 83 to whatever it was, 89, Long Way to Heaven, Wild in the Streets, even up to Back for Another Taste. Those records are absolute competitors with anything the States had.

They were really on point. They were certainly of the early era hair metal sound, but Brian's voice is incredible. The guys looked good. Live, they were certainly of a of the early era hair metal sound but brian's voice is incredible the guys looked good um live they were incredible they were like a scorpions they were really athletic live they had and they opened all together they opened for bands like think who they opened for i'm sorry to interrupt i want to get right back to your thought there but you know rush motley crew alice cooper white snake night ranger kiss aerosmith heart quiet riot wasp like motorhead these are the bands that helix would open for yeah well yeah and and so again it's another point of those guys had they moved to la they would have been huge but i don't even know if they moved to

toronto for that matter at any point so where where were? You're not even doing that. Kitchener. Kitchener. Wow. Heaven never loves Heaven relates You know what I found She's not Heaven never loves Heaven lets go She can't stand She's not Heaven never loves I'm like the

Cadeso steel As I hurt As I feel and shy I feel Every man loves She's my every man loves Oh yeah Every man loves She's my every man loves

She's not the kind of girl you bring home from home She's my She's dirty and made of punches Not so fun, she's my I like to confess or steal There's a hurt and a smile I feel Every day I walk She's my I feel guitar solo I'm the head of the world She's my head of the world Head of the world

She's my head of the world Head of the world She's my head of the world Head of the world She's my head of the world So can I throw this out there? Helix to me were the I Mother Earth of the 80s. Should have been, could have been, would have been, but just didn't. I've just been sitting on this.

That song, Levitate by I Mother Earth. That's a metal song. That's a heavy fucking song. Silence from the peanut gallery as we all kind of like played in our heads and think on that one. But this is a good question. Do you want to do that?

Are they metal or not right now? Because I know Three Days Grace is another one that would be on that list. Are they metal or not? Three Days Grace. I don't know. Like I Mother Earth, they're kind of like Rush in the 70s had some songs I think could in some circles perhaps be at at least have a debate, are they metal? I mean, we should let Martin, he's our subject matter expert,

but I would think, you know, being a heavy rock band does not make you a metal band necessarily. Like I Mother Earth, I don't consider them, even Levitate, which is a heavy fucking jam. I love that. But you also so gently we go on that album.

Anyway, that I don't consider them a so gently, we go on that album anyway, that, that I don't, I don't consider them a metal band, but what does Martin Popoff have to say about, uh, this, uh, suggestion?

First of all, before you get to that again, Canada did not buy into our grunge bands either in a big way. I mean, I mother sold a lot of records, but I think everybody kind of made kind of thought, ah, you're not as good as the American ones,

you know? And, and that happened with our lady peace and them and one of my favorites out of the scene that everybody forgets a band called jesus christ they were incredible uh really super heavy an album in 1998 so i don't remember them at all masterpiece no the guy not the band so we had he's a carpenter we had a few grunge bands as well. And it's literally like the hair metal thing. We didn't have a lot of bands and they weren't accepted because, because the grass is always greener. They weren't from Seattle. So,

so they can't be very good. And I think I'm mother earth kind of fit in that. And, and you know, everybody thought, I think a Canadian fan has that wary skepticism that, that they're really a lot of money's being thrown at them. They're being promoted. That's the only reason they're doing good.

CanCon. Same with Our Lady Peace, right? It was the same kind of deal. You know who seemed like was the big swing and I think they whiffed because this band, that band Kitty. You remember Kitty out of London, Ontario, the four girls. I think Ozzy Osbourne was a champion

on OzFest. A lot of marketing and kind of the four girls. I think Ozzy Osbourne was a champion on OzFest. A lot of marketing and kind of went nowhere from what I recall. I've got a fun fact for you. Love it. Let's hear it. Fun fact regarding Kitty. I believe it was the two of them were sisters, were they not? The bassist and the drummer, I think. Yeah.

So they actually lived three doors down from Fred Patterson in Heart Lake at one time wow boom you know Fred Patterson the man who you know speaking of Ian Ashbury earlier

the man who recorded Snow Removal Machine that's right I believe so the man who recorded Snow Removal Machine? That's right. Follow the money, Mike. I believe so. I believe that at least one member of Kitty was a neighbor of Fred Patterson. Love it, love it.

Cam, do you have a list of are they metal or not? Because I know... Yeah, I have a few more. We've actually covered a lot of them, but these are also just going to be like neighboring. This is the one band I used to see in the Toronto concert listings, and I think I got mixed up with the band Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, that swing band, Monster Voodoo Machine. They were a big deal back in the day.

That's a metal band, right? Yeah, they're part of our small um industrial metal uh situation right remember when there was a lot of industrial metal you know the excitement around early white zombie and and ministry right nine inch nails so we had a few of those who are some of the other ones um they were the big one definitely well they're definitely not a metal band, but when you think of, and I might be way off here, but like Frontline Assembly. Yeah, that's the other one I was thinking of. Yeah, coming from a totally different angle, and even, you know, get a couple of beers in me,

and I might lobby that Skinny Puppy had some metal moments. Steve the Rave, am I wrong? Sure, Ogilvy. Moving down a little, and those first two are definitely much heavier yeah yeah a few more names here these are like

two bands again would gig a lot in Toronto I'm not sure Kilt Cheerleader which had the guy who went on to I want to say like

Crystal Castles or something was in that band and Die Mannequin you remember that band yeah I saw them live I saw Die Mannequin live yeah that's like

a second stage edge fest. Like a Casby Awards or something. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. Sort of in the I'm Other category, I think these guys, Finger Eleven, like they certainly had some songs that were pretty fucking heavy when they wanted to be.

And then in that vein, what about like a band like Default? Default, yeah. Alexis on Fire. Nickelback had in that vein what about like a band like default default yeah well even like fire yeah nickelback had nickelback some big riffs sure yeah that that's all i got really i mean we've covered so many of these bands uh oh shit big name literally big name thor thor thor Thor. Thor? Thor. Yeah, not heavy on the legendary album from 1977, but everything after that was heavy. Yeah. Do you know Thor, Mike?

Do you know who this is? No, I can only think of the Marvel superhero here. Did I miss Thor? Thor was Vancouver, was he not? Yes. Yeah. There's some good Nardwar. Yeah, he was a big weightlifter guy, like a sculpted guy.

Okay. Long blonde hair. He had an album in 77 called keep the dogs away where he, where he's holding the two dogs on the chain, not a heavy album, but he, and he was quite famous in his day. He would go on talk shows and stuff and, and band bars in half and rip yeah kind of a crossover between like the ultimate warrior and like alice yeah and as the legend grew as the legend grew he started getting back into music and i think his first album since the 77 was like 85 or something

and then he's made a few albums and they're all pretty heavy and pretty good i mean because he's got a heavy band behind him and stuff super Super nice guy. Yeah. Thor. He almost, he almost, he almost killed himself on television in the UK once. Do you remember this story, Martin, about what happened to Thor on, on a UK TV show? No. He tried to, he tried to, to inhale a balloon or something. And it ended up expanding his lungs to the point where they should have exploded and he should have died they had to rush him to the hospital this is the story i can't confirm

it is the story i was told no but what he used to do weird stuff he would blow up hot water bottles that's what it had to do with that oh shit that's right that was like his cup and he was all yeah he was almost killed doing that. Mike, you have no clue anything about this. It's not ringing a bell. If I know my Thor stuff, I forgot I knew it. I have to brush up on my... He'd be on Much West sometimes.

With Terry David Mulligan. I would have a little chat with Thor. Buffy Bailed. Before we wrap up, and I know, Martin, you don't show up in Toronto until 89, but can we shout out some of the GTA venues,

particularly in the 80s, where, you know, we mentioned Rock and Roll Heaven, but where one might go to catch a good metal show. Okay, before you get to that, I just want to make a very quick point is that the other thing that Canada has been quite known for is our magazine. So we had Metallion, 84 to 85. We had Meat Magazine, Drew Masters, 89 to 94. We had Brave Words and Bloody Knuckles,

the one that Tim and I ran from 94 all the way to 2009. We had Unrestrained, Adrian Bromley, Extreme Metal Magazine, 95 to 2008. He died, unfortunately. And then in Quebec, they had Sangfray, Fresh Blood, 98 to 2005. So we were known for that as well. And besides that, Canada was also known for quite a few years there, was kind of a running joke, that we had writers who were writing for magazines from all over the world, from Canada. And everybody's saying, why are all these writers from Canada all the time?

So that's something we had all the time, but you, but you know, I, I kind of got a stress again in another way, because I've been asked so many times, like, why don't you write a book on Canadian metal? And, and it's like my standard answer to why don't I do an episode on this or that is like, it's too random. It's almost like we don't have, we don't really have a story per se, other than these few little bubbles like that, that, that speed metal bubble and that, and that technical death metal bubble and maybe the magazine bubble. But other than that, Canada is just another country with a slightly unimpressive bunch of metal bands compared to other places.

Per capita, we're not doing that great, actually. Yeah, but Martin, I once read, doing some research about you, you mentioned in one of your books, three stages of heavy metals early development. You said there was three different eras. Could you just briefly touch on those? I think one was the late 60s, early 70s, then the 80s with Metallica. And then what was after that? I might have talked about, I might have been talking about the invention of metal proper,

which to me is Black Sabbath one, one black sabbath paranoid deep purple in rock your eye heap very heavy very humble all in 1970 boom okay right uh metal is now based on classical and doom and it's not based on the blues anymore there's no blues on any of those albums right so that to me is the invention year uh then i talk about sad wings of destiny that the massive up ratchet of judas priest sad wings of destiny, that the massive upper ratchet of Judas priest, sad wings of destiny into sin after sin that, that sometimes I call like the second wave. Uh, then, then the invention of metal, which is thrash. So the invention of true extreme metal in 83. Um, and I, I, from there, from there, it's just new, new other scenes come up. There's black

metal, there's death metal. I thought Pantera was a big step up, but I don't think there's really much past then. I really think the most important one is 1970. And then after that, really the most defined one is the invention of thrash. This is a dumb question, Martin. Do you consider kind of new metal, like Korn and all that,

like even a cohesive thing? Because, I mean, there's certainly a lot of bands there that were pretty heavy, but it's... Also, like, they were all on the radio, too. Like, this was quite popular. Finger 11. A cohesive scene. I mean, basically, there's a dozen or so, you know,

fairly big heavy metal subgenres. That's just one of them. Yeah. And Canada's was Finger Eleven. They were kind of the kings of the new metal sound of the, well, geez, what it had been, the early 2000s, I guess. Yeah. I feel like, at least visually,

that band Three Days Grace certainly looked metal. They seemed like metal band from Central Casting. Hey, a little name drop in here. A little bragging rights, I guess. So I went to school with Barry Stock, who's the guitar player in Three Days Grace. He's the same age as me. Where is he from? Because one of the

agencies I used to work for, Justin Creeley was our president and his cousin's in the band. Oh, okay. Well, they're from just outside of Peterborough, but he's from Brampton. Brampton. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah.

Like a really tiny town outside Brampton, like a classic one stoplight town. No, no. That's where Three Days Grace are from outside of Peterborough. Yeah. I can't remember what it's called. Me neither. Yeah. I picked up a copy of Plumpers there once in this town.

I don't know where that came from, but that's a true story. It's by Stony Lake. My buddy Scotty had a cottage there. There you go. Grab that drop. Is Plumpers one of those Martin Popoff magazines that he doesn't talk about? Okay. You said pen name.

that he doesn't talk about. Okay. You said pen name. Before we wrap, again, could maybe rapid fire shout out some of those venues? There's going to be a bunch of metalheads, GTA metalheads are listening and they want to hear the venue. Shout it out.

Could you run down a quick list there? Okay. Well, from my era anyways, so from 90 through to now, I would say the rock pile for all the great legendary classic bands from the 80s and 70s, they come to the rock pile. The Opera House for sure. The Cathedral Room, which is no longer there, and the Big Bop, right?

Lee's Palace would have a lot of metal bands. Another one that's not there anymore, The Warehouse. And now whatever the docks, whatever the docks is called sound academy these days they they get a lot of metal in a lot of the bigger metal bands you know on those big nice big packages slayer and death angel clutch motorhead and uh dio even played there um but yeah opera house is probably the most prolific for me um being on the east end and it was always close to me uh and everybody went there that's where we first started seeing we were all amazed at the magazine in 94 95 96 we thought we would never see any of these swedish finnish

norwegian bands and now they're like live here they're just like constantly they came through all the time right and we thought we'd never see any of these bands in a million years but that all started in kind of the late 90s into the early 2000s um phoenix phoenix would have a lot of uh metal uh that's now no longer a venue is phoenix phoenix is still a venue right i think i think it's still well it's being replaced by a condo soon okay i don't think i knew that that's a devastating news to receive rock and roll heaven uh when i first got here i saw it was either sound garden pantera faith no more i definitely saw there definitely saw manitoba's wild kingdom there when i first got here as well the hair metal bands up at kingswood wonderland

saw van halen and cinderellanyrd Skynyrd and Poison and all those guys up there. Probably should mention the Concert Hall, Martin. Concert Hall. Concert Hall, I only saw a few bands there, and none of them were metal, actually. I feel like that's where Metallica first played in Toronto. They actually did, Cam.

They played there January 19th, 1985. It was their first show in Toronto. Wow. It was the Ride the Light tour, and they did three dates in Canada, Quebec, Montreal, and Toronto, and that was it. Huge. Massey Hall. Massey Hall has a lot of metal, actually, believe it or not.

And Danforth Music Hall has really stepped up with a lot of concerts of all sorts, right? Did you guys ever get up to Nags Head North? I feel like Killer Dwarves would play up there. That's like five minutes from where I grew up. And also for our friends Stu Stone and me, our most metal moment ever when we dropped a TV set behind the Swiss Chalet in the same parking lot

and it exploded. It was like an atom bomb going off. Oh, like the SCTV opening. I was going to say, heavy metal or SCTV? Okay, gentlemen. Bit of both, bit of both. Gentlemen, dare I ask, before we say goodbye, dare I ask the state of metal in Canada as we speak now in 2022,

is anybody on the Zoom able to speak to that? Nobody wants to talk. Like I say, I mean, I really don't think our scene has ever been considered an amazing, an amazing, amazing scene, but there are still a lot of bands. There's a lot of power metal and post-New Wave of British heavy metal bands

all over the place. So it's as healthy as pretty much anywhere else, but it's not particularly remarkable. So Martin, I don't know if you were there or not, but last year, the guys who wrote a book called Eve of Darkness, Toronto Metal in the 80s, they had a release at, I believe, a brew pub last year. And a lot of the old metal guys from back in the 80s,

because that's when that book was around, they all got together. My buddy Dave, who was in death militia came out from Nanaimo for that. My other buddy, Dave, who I mentioned earlier, my buddy, Dave Bush, he was one of the guys who showed up. Brian Taylor was holding court that day. I don't know if you went to that, but that was, I did go to that and I bought the book there from them. And with all the goodies in it. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. So that was one thing that happened recently in metal.

And, and so I don't forget, I, I, there's one name we have not mentioned that we need to mention who everyone knows who had a lot to do with heavy metal. Uh, first of all, kudos to Lee Aaron, who toured Canada as a female in the early 80s. And the bullshit she must have taken along the way from promoters, from fans, blah, blah, blah. A lot of kudos to her. But the lady whose name I've got to drop, we haven't dropped it today, Teresa Roncon.

Right. Also Rose Slanik, who worked for Attic. Rose Slanik, too. And also Noel E. Noel Noel who's promoted all of these metal shows at the Opera House and elsewhere for years and years and years do you want to hear a fun fact about Teresa Roncon yes please

god this is so non-metal I run a private LinkedIn networking group for other people working in tech PR like myself and Teresa Roncon is a member one of the 200 members. Hook me up, buddy. No, I'm not setting you up.

Just tell her I love her. Just tell her I love her. She was the coolest. I love it. Pepsi power. I'll get her on the program. I'll get her on. Martin, it's an ongoing.

One more name. Tim Henderson, definitely, who ran Brave Words and Bloody Knuckles and runs BW and BK, the website now, or bravewords.com sorry uh tim tim is all over the place all over the world florida germany always at wachen he's so connected in the metal world he's probably one of the biggest kind of metal media icons probably in the whole world so martin if somebody wants to get a hold of uh one of your books like what's in print right now how do you recommend somebody go about to get ahold of one of your books, like what's in print right now, how do you recommend somebody go about to score a copy of one of your

fantastic books? Basically martinpopoff.com. If there's PayPal buttons there, it's in print. So out of all of those, I would say if you go to my site and scroll down, probably 80 of those are in print. Okay.

So just 80. I was going to say, I thought he was going to say flocker. I thought he was going to say eight BCD. What is that brother bill? So I don't want to turn this into three hours, but I wanted to hit our guest

up with one last question. And, and for those who don't really know heavy metal, but are interested in maybe in our conversation, maybe, uh,

can you name three albums from any era? Uh, Martin, sorry to put you on the spot, but can you name three albums from any era, Martin? Sorry to put you on the spot, but can you name three albums that people should listen to if they're just getting into heavy metal? Canadian albums?

No. Three heavy metal albums. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Or a few, whatever you want to do. It would almost be easier to do the Canadian one because it limits it a little bit.

Okay, so the album that is rated, the greatest metal album of all time in a lot of polls is Metallica master puppets, 1986. If you want to keep it as extreme and, and probably the album that wins second would be Slayer rain and blood. That's enough for the heavy stuff. Let's see. Ah, boy. Okay. So, so I would say for an album that was the most impressive album that raised the standard of heavy metal in the seventies, Judas Priest,

Sad Wings of Destiny, 1976. So I'm good. Can I give you my three and then camera and Mike, if you want to jump in, go ahead. But I, my three are going to be because of my era, but my three are going to be, because of my era, 1980s Back in Black by ACDC, 1985's Power Slave by Iron Maiden, and 1980s Ace of Spades by Motorhead. Yeah, they were sort of like considered a crossover a little bit, like Motorhead, because they would play with... Absolutely.

They were the first to cross over cam, but that's another story altogether. I honestly don't know if I've ever bought a straight-up metal album. I think of stuff I own on CD. You never owned Back in Black? No. I thought that was a rite of passage for a teenager.

I have Jane's Addiction, nothing shocking. Not metal, I don't think. Never mind the band Nirvana. That's a big one. Not metal. I don't think I have mind the band Nirvana. That's a big one. I don't think I have any metal in my actual collection. No metal and no comedy, says the Cam Gordon rule. Actually, you know what

new metal band, not like NU, but what band I quite like? Do you guys know the band Wolves in the Throne Room? No. They're from the Pacific Northwest and kind of almost cross over into like post rock like what sound remind me a bit of one of my favorite bands mogwai right a lot of like 20 minute songs but about the destruction of the earth but very like gloomy um it's it's like the only like it's

a toe tapper it's a feel good feel good song of the the day. What are we looking at there, brother? What is that? Three Days Grace hometown is Norwood, Ontario. Norwood, yes. Shout out to Scotty Norwood. Wide right. Shank that kick. Thanks to the plumpers. So, brother Bill, thank you.

Cam Gordon, thank you. You two are the best co-hosts a man could ask for on progressive past of modern melodies. But a very special thank you to the subject matter expert who blew us away today with his knowledge of metal. Thank you, Martin Popoff,

for making your Toronto mic debut today. All right. Thank you, guys. This was fun. I feel like Martin's automatically your most metal FOTM now. Lee Aaron and Martin Popoff. Yeah, Lee Aaron.

Shout out to Midtown Gord. And that brings us to the end of our 1009th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Brother Bill is at Neil Talks. Cam Gordon is at Cam underscore Gordon.

Martin Popoff is at Popoff Martin. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home is at Ridley FH. Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana underscore. And Ryobi are at Ryobi Tools USA. See you all next week. And it won't go away Cause everything is Rose and green

Well you've been under my skin For more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter And eight years of tears And I don't know what the future Can hold or do For me and you But I'm a much better man for having known you

Oh, you know that's true because Everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Wants me today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't go away

Cause everything is rosy and gray Well I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who But I wonder who Yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of grey Cause I know that's true Yes, I do

I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you? They're picking up trash And they're putting down ropes And they're brokering stocks The class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar

Just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn Because everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold

but the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy and gray Well I've kissed you in France

And I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen you in places I better not name. And I've seen the sun go down on Shakhtar Khor. But I like it much better going down on you. Yeah, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and green. Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow

warms us today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy Yeah, everything is

rosy and everything is rosy and gray.