Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - The Horseshoe Tavern: Toronto Mike'd #310

Episode Date: March 1, 2018

Mike chats with Horseshoe Tavern historian David McPherson about the history of the legendary Toronto concert venue.

Welcome to episode 310 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery located right here in Etobicoke. Did you know that 99% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario? GLB, brewed for you, Ontario. And propertyinthesix.com, Toronto real estate done right. And Paytm, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot. Download the app today from paytm.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Horseshoe Tavern historian David McPherson. Welcome, David. Thanks for having me, Mike. Is that what's on your business cards? Horseshoe Tavern historian? Sure. Yeah, I'll have to add that. It has a good ring to it.

When I promoted this episode as everything you wanted to know about the Horseshoe Tavern, but were afraid to ask, my buddy Andrew Stokely, who helped put this studio together with me, he said, you're doing this with David McPherson, right? Because if I'm doing it, if anyone else, that's just an imitation. Like you have to go to you to do this properly. Is that fair to say? I guess. I'm very humbled by that. But yeah, since I published this book last September via Dundurn Press, it has been quite a ride. And I guess I can rightly say I have become a bit of an expert on the history of the tavern.

And it's been a real pleasure to share that history with people across the country. In that book, we'll mention it again, don't worry, but the book that you're referring to is called The Legendary Horseshoe Tavern, A Complete History. That's correct. And that came out last year for the 70th anniversary of the Horseshoe Tavern? Yep. Yep. Late last fall to tie in with the 70th.

So I guess we're a little late here. It's March. We should have done this because now it's going to be the 71st anniversary. It doesn't have quite the same ring to it. No, but that's what I love is that I've been talking about since I've been promoting this book. It's not just about a venue and a place. It's about the spirit of that place and the people who have run it for 70 years. They've all had passion for the live music scene. And, you know, it is appropriate that here we are, you know, six months later or so. And it is into its 71st year. And that's what I love, that it is still going on. And I hope that we'll still be talking about this, you know, a few more

years when they're celebrating their 75th. Now, hopefully we're not talking about the condo development that goes in there. No, this is, we got the horseshoe, those checkerboard floors, and that's what we're talking about today. It's going to hopefully live forever. But you just came from Alan Cross's house. Is that right? No, we just met for a coffee in downtown Oakville. Oh, I was going to ask you to compare studios.

Okay, so you just met Alan Cross for a coffee, which is still pretty cool. Don't get me wrong. But I was going to say, finally, I met Alan Cross for coffee, which is still pretty cool. Don't get me wrong. But I was going to say, finally, I have somebody, an insider, who can tell me about Alan Cross's own studio, but you can't do that. No, not today. Did he pay for your coffee or did you pay for his? It's hard-hitting questions here.

Yes, yeah. Well, we're both struggling writers, so, of course, we paid for our own. You went Dutch. Yeah. Okay, that's cool. And anything you can reveal about the Alan Cross convo? Was it all about the Horseshoe Tavern? Because he's a music historian himself.

Yeah, that's why. I mean, again, Alan is someone I've admired for many, many years. And with this book, it allowed me, even though I've been writing about music for about 20 years, I got to meet some people that I hadn't had the chance before. And Alan was one of the first people who interviewed me when I started promoting this book with Vintage TV, a 24-7 TV channel. He mentioned this because he was here like two weeks ago.

He mentioned Vintage TV. He's doing a lot of work with them. Yeah, they're out of the UK, and they just arrived in Canada about a year or so ago. And they're on a couple of the major cable providers in a lot of homes right now, but they're continuing to expand. And yeah, he did a sit-down interview with me that was like 40 minutes long. And it's been great exposure. And yeah, we just hadn't really caught up since.

So it's just a good time to get together and chat about music. Awesome. That's very cool. Now, before we go back in our time machine to 1947, we're going there soon. So tell me, though, how do you, David McPherson, how do you come to write the legendary Horseshoe Tavern, A Complete History? Like what's in your background that made you the guy to write this book? Like a lot of things in life, there was a bit of luck. But it's also, I mentioned off the top,

about the passion of the owners. And that's really what led me to write this book myself. I've always been a passionate music lover ever since I bought my first rock record, you know, Jay Giles Band, Freeze Frame back in the day. Of course. And went to my first concert, saw The Who and I was hooked. And, you know, for me, there's nothing like seeing a live music show. And I lived in Toronto for nearly 20 years until I moved back to my hometown of Waterloo a few years back. And during the time I lived there, I mean, I got to know the Horseshoe

and lots of other great venues in that city, like the Dakota Tavern and the Cameron House. And I've always wanted to write a book about music. And, you know, it was one of those, as it was approaching the 70th anniversary, I was surprised nothing had ever been done. I've always loved history too. So, you know, I pitched the idea to a publisher and they liked it.

And then I took the idea to the current ownership of, you know, Jeff Cohen and Craig Lasky, and they bought in. And next thing you know, I was writing Craig Lasky. And they bought in and next to you know, I was writing a book. Well, thank you for doing that because I'm like, the last time I was at the Horseshoe was in late December. I saw the Skydiggers there. Yeah, their annual Christmas show. Oh my God. It's like, you know, my wife's not a big, like she's, she's up, she's game. Like if I say, hey, can I buy us tickets to this? She'll be like, okay, let's go do that. And, you know, so she had no, she hadn't experienced skydigger stuff before but uh even she came out

of that thing and was like that was like special you know you know that venue is i mean i've been i that venue is great too so i'm looking forward to this deep dive into the history of the horseshoe tavern uh let's do you mind if we now go back to 1947 and tell me, this is the initial purchase by Jack Starr, right? Yeah, and that in itself, like I said, I've always loved history, and that's part of what fascinated me about this project. I got to go back, and unfortunately, Jack passed on a number of years ago, but family members are still around. And so, you know, they were some of the first people I reached out to. I talked to his daughter and talked to his grandson. And, you know, through them, I started to paint a picture of, you know, who was this guy that,

you know, kind of surprised his family back in, you know, the late 40s there. I mean, he was a, you know, a Jewish entrepreneur, businessman who was more in the kind of textile manufacturing type industry that was known in the kind of textile manufacturing type industry that was known in that kind of Queen and Spadina corridor. And his daughter came home from camp, so the story goes, one day, and he told her that he'd bought this tavern. You know, it's funny you mention the textile,

because my wife, as a hobby, she likes to make clothes. I don't know what you call it, sewist or whatever she calls herself. But she'll say the best stuff she finds is in that neighborhood. Like on Queen Street, there's still some old fabric shops that have been there forever. It's like that's the fabric district, if you will. Yeah, and that's what it was, I guess. And so it was surprising when, you know,

Jack decided he was going to open this tavern, didn't really have any experience. And initially, that's what it was. It was just a tavern. It was a watering hole. It was one of the first places in Toronto to get the newly created liquor license next to the Silver Rail that was over off Yonge Street. And, you know, music didn't come for a number of years later. It was just a place to go grab, you know, a prime rib dinner on Sunday kind of thing and go have drinks for all the blue-collar workers that lived in the neighborhood. So it was, you know, the Horseshoe Tavern was born in 1947.

And approximately when do concerts start happening at the tavern? Like when about does that happen? Not till the early 50s, really. So it was a few years later. And the same way that Jack opened up the bar, I mean, music came there in a roundabout way. The story goes that another interesting historical fact that a lot of the workers in the area were migrants that had come here from the East Coast in Canada, looking for work and, you know, post-war. And they, of course, love music. And one day Jack was walking through the bar and they said, hey, you should get some music in here. And he said, what kind? And they said country, of course. Of course.

Of course, you know, the east coasters love their country music. And yeah, next thing you know, it became Nashville North and all the grand old Opry stars. You know, Jack being a great entrepreneur, he suddenly saw that there was a niche. There wasn't a lot of places in Toronto where these big country acts could play or were playing and that there was an audience that really wanted to hear, you know, these performers. Now, let's tell listeners that after the sponsor mentions, we're going to discuss, we'll call it the 10 shows that mattered. No, you found this exercise rather impossible to come up with the 10 shows that mattered at the Horseshoe Tavern. But you did your best and you can give as many honorable mentions as you desire. And whenever you're struck with a fun fact or historical fact don't hesitate because i i love

that stuff okay for sure bury me in historical fun facts about the horseshoe tavern in the city so we're just maybe off the top we're going to talk about ownership so jack star and no chance not a prayer that's his real name this isn't he's not a jack star are his kids going by the name star yeah actually it was star but with two r's. Okay. Because that's an amazing name for a guy who's going to open a tavern that plays music. Yeah, it does. I hadn't thought about that. Well, I was certain that was one of those fake monikers. You're going to be Jack Star.

That's great. So Jack Star buys it in 1947. And at some point, the Garys, who's the next owner? Who's the next owner of the Horseshoe Tavern? And you tell me, you're the expert. But at some point in the 70s, the Garys, Gary Cormier and Gary Topp, do they buy the Horseshoe Tavern? Am I mixing up my facts here? Yeah, basically, that's always that confusing piece, right?

Who owned it? Who promoted it? Who was kind of the managers, if you will? And yeah, really it was, Star was there until about the mid-70s. And then there was a few different ownership changes where he decided to retire and pass it on. The Garys were actually only there as kind of promoters. They were hired by the manager, Peter Graham, at the time. And the Garys came in and, well, a lot of people who were part by the manager, Peter Graham, at the time. And the Garys came in. And while a lot of people who were part of that scene, it was a pretty incredible time, thought it lasted forever. It was really only eight months that the Garys kind of had the run of the place.

But what in eight months, right? But what in eight months? That's what you talk about. And we can get to that of the eclectic bands that were in there and the the types of uh performers that uh graced that stage well as we do these 10 shows that mattered i'm going to try to keep them in chronological order so we can fill in the gaps with interesting stuff that was happening at the horseshoe tavern i just love the fact that these guys you can call them the gary's like that's pretty cool hey it's the gary's gary cormier and gary top so that's pretty cool. Hey, it's the Garys, Gary Cormier and Gary Top. So that's pretty cool. And I have no memory.

Now, I have no memory of, I was very young. That's my excuse. But the horseshoe vanishes in 1982. Is that right? So in 82, the horseshoe vanishes for a brief time. And it was, the building was retail shops and a bar called Stagger Lee's. Is that right?

Yeah, it's one of those pieces of history best left forgotten, and that's probably why you don't remember it, because it was fortunately very short-lived. It was one of those cases where a lot of factors collided. I mean, you had the early 80s there with the high

interest rates and mortgage rates and everything, and the musical tastes were changing. The music scene down on Queen West, uh, had changed. And, uh, Jack Starr, as I mentioned, had retired and had gone through a number of owners that kind of were struggling to find, you know, what was the next identity for the horseshoe. And, uh, thankfully, thankfully, uh, you know, Jack came out of retirement and was able to recruit some, uh, new blood with the same passion that, uh, you know, revived the horseshoe.

And it has carried on until today. So we almost lost, we almost didn't get to this 70th. Is that right? Yeah. We almost never got to the 70th anniversary because it almost disappeared for good in 1982. And retail shops. So what? Like you go in there, buy your cowboy boots?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't even know. I mean, like I said, it was so short lived that, I mean, it was really, the place was, it was much bigger at one time. And that's what you notice. Like if you go there today, you see where the A&W is. I mean, that was part of the horseshoe. If you see old photos, I mean, it was basically double the size. So it was kind of subdivided over the years and, you know, did a number of different retail stores, you know, took up space in there. I bet you they had really tight jeans.

I suspect the Jordashes, the painted on Jordashes that Brooke Shields was wearing back then. Do you think, is this something else we can blame? I'm looking to blame the demise of things on disco music. At all, could I apply blame to disco music here? Or is it 82? No?

Can I? I'm just looking for an excuse. Possibly, yeah. Blame disco. Yeah. There's always someone you can blame, that's for sure. Oh, man. Disco.

Thankfully, that never arrived in the horseshoe. They have had pretty much every genre under the sun. But no disco. I don't think much disco in there. I bet you disco would have worked in there,hoe. They have had pretty much every genre under the sun, but no disco. I don't think much disco in there. I bet you disco would have worked in there, though. Yeah. Put in a nice big disco ball there. Now, who owns the Horseshoe Tavern today? Today, the majority owner is Jeff Cohen, who also owns Lee's Palace and involved with Collective Concerts, the promotion agency. He's the majority owner, and Craig Lasky is kind of one of his major partners.

All right, now let's do a little business here, and then let's get to some talk about some of these bands. I'm excited to talk about the music. Firstly, I'd like to tell everybody listening that they can help crowdfund Toronto Mic at patreon.com slash Toronto Mike. If you're driving or biking or walking right now and you can't remember that, just go to torontomike.com and click the big orange buttons. I have everywhere. Every 20 pixels, I stick a button, you know, become a patron. So go to patreon.com slash Toronto Mike. Even a dollar a month helps keep this going. There's a case of beer in front of you, David. You want to take that home with you?

Actually, I don't drink. Do you have any neighbors or family or friends that drink? I might. So, you know, I definitely, I know a few people that enjoy a beverage now and then. Can I tell you, I'm on a streak now. Four episodes in a row. This is never good for the beer sponsor, but four episodes in a row where i presented the guest with a case of beer and they tell me they don't drink beer alan cross does not drink beer yeah he does not he doesn't he loves uh alcohol don't get me wrong but no beer for him then i had a gentleman who's uh decided to stop drinking beer about a year ago he's a uh singer songwriter

named uh sean yeah and then i'm trying to think i had steve anthony here the other day he doesn't drink and david mcpherson doesn't drink so four in a row i wonder if i can keep this going i have to check my guest list for next week but that's okay it's amazing uh that it is one of those things. I've learned to live without it, and it's one of those cases where you realize, yeah, I used to love my beer. Don't get me wrong. Well, how long have you... Is it just beer you quit or alcohol?

Alcohol in general. How long ago did we quit? I'm coming on, I think, it's over two years. It's about 25 months or so now. Well, good for you. Did you notice like instantly weight loss just by cutting out the alcoholic calories or you just feel better? Yeah, a little bit, maybe. I mean, I've always been pretty fortunate. I exercise and whatnot. But yeah, definitely, I'm sure I lost a few calories and just overall health. I feel so much better. Well, I'll tell you what,

you're welcome to give that six pack to me if you like. Yeah, I can donate it back. But if you have friends or family or neighbors that will owe you one, if you pass on a six pack, you take that Great Lakes beer home. If you're going to drink beer again, and I'm not going to pressure you

to drink beer ever again, but if you do, Great Lakes Brewery is a great local craft brewery and they produce some great beers. Oh, definitely. I worked for the LCBO actually at their head office for six and a half years. So I got to know a lot of the craft brewers and I really admire all them. I used to support them and they're all small business people. And, you know, we talked again off the top about passion. And these are people with a lot of passion for their craft. You got to be because it doesn't, you know, it doesn't make you rich. Like you do it for love of the game, if you will. For sure. You hope you can, you know, make your payroll every month.

So when you worked for LCBO, is that at One Young Street? Or is that where? It was right on Lakeshore, actually. We did have offices at One Young. A bunch of our departments were in there. But I was at that old, bit of decrepit-looking building right in front of it that I think eventually they're going to try and repurpose. Cool.

Only good things happen on the Lakeshore. That's what I say. That's right. You can quote me on that. I was going to say, when you drink your beer, you're going to want to pour it in a pint glass,

but you can also pour milk. You could pour a Diet Coke in it, but there's a pint glass there for you, courtesy of Brian Gerstein. You can take that home with you. Brian is with propertyinthesix.com. He's a sales representative of PSR Brokerage.

He's got his own jingle, which should be playing underneath this chatter so let me start that now you know you're somebody when you have your own jingle do you have a jingle? I don't have a jingle so I know I'm not a somebody yet I guess I think I need to

get someone to write me a jingle I was like do I have my own jingle? Technically, I kind of do. Like I have a theme song that was written for me. So the Toronto Mike theme song. So if it plays when you enter a room, then you know you're really important. What can I say about Brian?

Brian, you know, Brian was a listener of this podcast before he became a friend. But now that we're friends and we've been, I went biking with him. I only go biking with people I really like. That's a sign I like the guy. You can trust this gentleman, Brian Gerstein, and he would love to talk to you. If you're looking to buy and or sell in the next six months, just give him a call 416-873-0292 and have a conversation with Brian. He'll be glad you did and if it's a really good conversation

I bet you he can score you one of these pint glasses. Alan Cross collects Brian Gerstein property in the six pint glasses. This is what he tells me. So even though he doesn't drink beer he loves the pint glasses. It's a nice looking glass. It is and he's added color to it so it's only getting better.

Next time you come back for the 75th birthday of the Horseshoe Tavern, I bet you he's got an even better glass. It's only getting better. So thank you, Brian, for sponsoring Toronto Mic'd. Pink Floyd never played the Horseshoe Tavern, did they? No, not that I'm aware of. I mean, it's one of those things, like I tell people too,

that like we said off the top about the top moments, you know, shows that mattered. I mean, the reality is there were probably so many other people that played there I never heard about or since I've published a book, people have told me stories that, oh, I wish, you know, I would have known that when I was writing it or could have included it. You can have a secret. Yeah, a lot of those secret shows, if you will. I mentioned a few of them in the book, but I'm sure there's so many more of people that just showed up unannounced some nights and made an appearance. Awesome, awesome. I'm playing this song because of Paytm, a free online bill payment service that

helps manage all of your bills in one place. I eat my own dog food here. That's what I like to say. I use Paytm. I pay all my bills with Paytm. Utility bills, mobile, phone, internet, gas, property taxes, education, credit cards, insurance. I pay them all with Paytm. Lapping the, using my own MasterCard, President's Choice MasterCard. So I get the points there. And then I get the PayTM cash.

And if you use my promo code, TorontoMike, you get $10 off on your first bill payment. That's free money, my friends, so visit PayTM.ca, download the app, and don't forget to use promo code TorontoMike, all one word, when you make your first bill payment. All right, let's get to it, David. It's funny, I usually kick out the jams. I was going to ask you if you want to kick out the jams.

We're kind of kicking out the jams, but we're going to be talking. Just going to have some background music. Let's start. The first gentleman you want to speak about it with this horseshoe tavern shows 27 consecutive 25 consecutive nights in the early 70s stomp and tom connors tell me about this yeah i mean you can't talk about the horseshoe tavern without talking about stomp and tom i mean he he was as legendary as the tavern itself in terms of once he established his presence in Toronto,

he became a fixture at the Horseshoe. It's another one of those great stories where he arrived in Toronto, and before his time, he was the best self-promoter. I hear stories that he'd create his own matches that he'd put on the tables at the Horseshoe. Before people were doing this, he was going up and putting posters and billboards and, you know, spreading the word about, you know, his music and what he was doing. But going back to the Horseshoe, I mean, he kept going in and bugging Jack Starr. That was the place he really wanted to play. And, you know, it's one of those where persistence paid off

that Star finally gave him a chance and, you know, had a band that backed him up. And, yeah, like you referenced, I mean, to this day, he still holds the record. 25 nights in a row he played the place, and I don't think that will ever be broken. I mean, I know the Rheostatics, you know, tried and probably the band that's come the closest,

you know, when they did their, you know, their residencies that they called the Fall Nationals, you know, years ago. But, yeah, Stompin' Tom was a legend there. And he and Jack became very good friends. And to the point, I mean, when Jack gave him a raise, you know, Tom cried. He was so touched by it, you know, know that uh you know what that place meant to him stop i mean that sounds like a you know a marriage made in heaven stomping tom in the horseshoe tavern just great now you know there was stomping tom's interesting because uh you know he's doing these shows in the early 70s at the horseshoe but he had this resurgence for my

generation like in the i i want to say the late 80s mid 80s late 80s there was like a stomping tom resurgence and you know you'd put on much music and you'd see the video for Margo's Got the Cargo, remember, and Reg's Got the Rig. And it's like, so guys my age, all of a sudden we're being introduced to the Stompin' Tom character. I went to see a live taping of the Conan O'Brien show

in like early 2000s. And Stompin' Tom Connors was the musical guest doing the hockey song. Yeah. Yeah, and it's amazing how sometimes, you know, people get that new lease and a new generation discovers them. And, you know, thankfully for Tom, that did happen.

And, but yeah, that's really the horseshoe was a crucial part of his early success in Toronto, for sure. These songs, like, I mean, I would, I got to introduce my kids to Stompin' Tom. I don't know what they'd think of Stompin' Tom if I did, but, like, Bud the Spud and Sudbury Saturday Night, like, just so Canadian and just so, like, fun,

and I just wish I could go back and watch them at the horseshoe. Oh, I know. It's one of those, again, in doing this book, you know, I met so many people and talked to so again, in doing this book, you know, I met so many people and talked to so many people who were at some of these shows. And like you, I mean, this was before my time. I mean, you know, I would have loved to have seen Sampantama the horseshoe. I mean, the nice thing, you can get a little bit of a taste of it.

I mean, he filmed a movie there called Across This Land. And if you go on YouTube, you can still discover that and watch it. So you can get a little bit of a feel for what the horseshoe looked like back then. You know, you get all the stubby beer bottles on the tables and people smoking. And they were tables, right? Unlike, you know, today there's not that many, but people sat right close to the stage. And, you know, the stories go that Tom was, you know, like I said, the real promoter, but he also was in touch with his fans and audience, and he'd basically go table to table and shake hands in between sets

and, you know, sit down and have a pint of beer with them. Is it true that those 25 consecutive nights that Dave Hodge attended each of those shows? I can't verify that, but I know he is a huge horseshoe lover and supporter, and I wouldn't doubt it that, you know, he has a long history with the place as well. And you were at the, because there was a, sorry, I get the wrong year. There was a 70th anniversary night where it was celebrated, and Dave Hodge, was he the emcee that night?

Am I remembering my stories correctly, at the horseshoe? Yeah, I believe so. Were you there that night? Unfortunately, I wasn't there on the actual 70th birthday night because the same evening I had a book launch in my hometown of Kitchener

at the Kitchener Public Library with Josh and Andy from the Skydiggers. That's too funny because Andy's been here and then Stephen Stanley, I'm looking at his album right here, but he apparently played that night

at the Horseshoe Tavern, Dave Hodge tells me. So it all comes full circle. Yeah. But that's great. Andy Mays, what a nice guy. Am I right? Yeah, super nice. He and Josh I've gotten to know over the years just writing about music and you mentioned Steve Stanley, same

thing. I interviewed all of them for my book and I can't say enough great things about all these musicians in Canada that we have and it is a real tight-knit community and everyone supports one another. And, you know, that's been such a gratifying thing for this book too. I mean, I had Jim Cuddy from Blue Rodeo write the foreword and he came out to my book launch in October. And yes, I had Stephen Stanley play at my book launch and Julian Taylor and, you know, Miranda Mulholland and all these people, like they were so supportive

and they were so appreciative that I'd written this book as well. Oh, no, that's great. And you mentioned, because you mentioned real statics, I just need to do a shameless plug that Dave Bedini promises he is going to come on Toronto Mic'd at some point in 2018. So there's a little promo there. Now, so Stompin' Tom, this is early 70s.

So do you want to do a quick honorable mention on some interesting performers before that, just to bring us up to speed? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I talked off the top that when it opened and not when it opened, but when it started to host music, it quickly became Nashville North. And, you know, that's the part I tell people that was the most fascinating for me that I love to learn. I had a little bit of a taste, but to, to realize and see that, I mean, you had all these country legends like Ferlin Husky and little Jimmy Dickens, Loretta Lynn, uh, you know, people like that, that, uh, you know, the list goes on whispering Bill Anderson, uh, you know, George Hamilton, the fourth. I mean,

I can't remember all of them, but, uh, it was a place where, you know, George Hamilton IV. I mean, I can't remember all of them, but it was a place where, you know, all these Nashville cats would come and play. So, and it was like six, seven nights a week. And the neat thing, some of the, they had a house band. And so the house band would learn all of the songs and, you know, then they'd back up the Nashville performers who usually, you know, couldn't afford to bring up their whole band.

And, you know, luckily one of the, some of these people are still alive and I was able to chat with them for my book and it was neat to talk to one of them. And he basically would listen to the radio and hear the songs on the radio and to be able to learn them and play them. So he could back them up when they arrived.

I love that name, Nashville North. Yeah. That's very cool. Let's go into the late 70s now. The Police. This is the Gary's era, is that right? Yeah, definitely. This is the Gary's that I referenced a bit earlier.

Gary Topp and Gary Cormier, they were a pair of Toronto promoters that they had worked at a few other venues earlier. The Roxy and New Yorker had already built up that they had a following and knew, they really knew the scene and kind of, they were brought into the horseshoe at a time in 1978, when it was again looking to find its identity. It kind of had gone through a few different promoters and managers and it was like, what's next? And for an eight month run, they left their mark. Like I said, it was a short time, but it felt like a long time. And they, while it was really known as a punk period,

because they really promoted the punk and new wave scene, they brought in everyone, you know, from the police that we're talking about here to Etta James to the I3s that was, you know, Bob Marley's backup singers to folk singers like Jesse Winchester. Wow, that really does run the gamut. Yeah. Did Pete Seeger ever run the gamut. Yeah.

Did Pete Seeger ever play the Horseshoe Tavern? I just re-watched his documentary, so I've got Pete Seeger on the brain. Yeah, I don't know. That's another one that, you know, not in my research. I didn't discover that, but... Man. But the police, I mean, this is 1978

that the police are playing the Horseshoe Tavern, but they're huge in 78, right? Or am I correct? Because, again, I mean, this is 1978 that the police are playing the Horseshoe Tavern. But they're huge in 78, right? Or am I correct? Because, again, I'm very young in 1978, so I get blurry here. But the police, at least they were on their way to superstardom. Yeah, definitely. But that is the thing that, you know, I learned about the Garys. I mean, they had their ear to the ground, and they were usually a few few steps ahead of uh you know the scene and as

it was happening and what was hot so the reality was and that's what makes this story pretty cool is that you know the police played there in 1978 and while it's one of those shows probably everyone claims they were at right uh according to people who i talked to that were there and according to reports uh there was maybe a dozen people that showed up at this show and you know Sting was so embarrassed he wanted to give the Garys their money back but then six months later you couldn't go anywhere without hearing Roxanne

on the radio. There you go Roxanne here Since you said the R word there So okay so stomp and tom early 70s and then of course now the police here late 70s were there any other uh you mentioned a bunch of the gary's but any other 70s uh significant 70s show you want to give a uh honorable mention to before we get to the third the third band that mattered uh no i mean mean, the only other thing that was, there was a chapter in my book on it, which I thought was pretty neat.

At the end of the Gary's Run in 1978, you had one of the first times a play was performed in the bar, and this was the show that Hank Williams never gave. And it was an Ottawa folk singer called Sneezy Waters that he basically got into the role of Hank and they put on this play that again it ended up becoming a movie but it by all accounts I would have loved to have been there I know Richard Flohill who is you know a huge promoter that's still around in Toronto he actually promoted this show and talking to him and talking to Sneezy.

And he basically was Hank Williams. People believe that he was. And the reality is Hank Williams himself never played the bar. That's one of those things. But with Sneezy's performance, he was in character. Even the band had the same instruments. And they set up the bar as if it was you know the the night after hank williams had died as if it was his last show and that so

that was a pretty cool pretty cool moment in horseshoe history too you had me at sneezy waters and that uh unlike your question earlier about jack star that is not his real name so oh thank goodness because now everything i thought was true it's like the world turned upside down uh sneezy waters uh from now on when i have to you know book myself in a hotel or something i'm gonna go under the name sneezy waters that's cool here's a band okay this band i love this band you already mentioned uh the lead singer from let's let's hear let me i got a different word here okay when i got married the second time this was the you know you dance with your mom to a song oh yeah the mom dance song this was my mom dance song uh because uh we both absolutely adore this jam from uh blue rodeo's outskkirts. So one of the horseshoe performances

that mattered, according to you, Blue Rodeo in 1986. Yeah, again, I wasn't there, but by all accounts, I mean, this matters in many ways because it really was like Stompin' Tom

back in the 70s and what the horseshoe meant to them. I mean, there are other bars and other places along that Queen Street strip that definitely played a role in Blue Rodeo's success. But, you know, at the time, there was a new scene being formed that was led by Handsome Ned. And it was this kind of alt-country roots rock type scene. And a lot of it was the ex-punks, the punk rockers that kind of came back as kind of alt-country roots rock type scene. And a lot of it was the ex-punks, the punk rockers that kind of came back

as kind of country artists, but they kind of put their own little spin on it. And Jim Cuddy and Greg Keeler, they were playing in a band and had moved down to New York City, trying to make a go of it down there. And it didn't work after a while. And they had moved back to Toronto,

were a little disheartened, but they started to play along the Queen Street Strip at places like the Cameron House and the Beverly Tavern that's no longer and the Horseshoe. And definitely the Horseshoe and Outskirts, it was one night where basically I wouldn't say they were discovered because it was them putting in the time and they started to build up that fan base. But definitely the Horseshoe was one of those places where eventually they got heard by Warner and a record deal was struck. And that was kind of the launch pad, if you will, that they needed to take their career to the next level and where they're still playing today,

which is wonderful to see. They're one of the elder statesmen in Canadian music. You mentioned Jim Cuddy earlier. I would love to know how many times Jim Cuddy was on that horseshoe stage. I would love to know. Even the Skydigger show I mentioned

in late December I was at. I know there was two nights of Skydiggers and the second night jim cuddy joins him on stage like for sure i i'm sure jim is uh along with skydiggers and you know people like you mentioned earlier dave badini rheostatics there's some that i i didn't add that up but that would be a great stat to try and get i don't even know if they would remember how many times because beyond headlining and playing their own shows that's the neat thing about the horseshoe too, that any night you arrive, you don't know who might show up

or who might be a guest, surprise guests that might just, you know, get up on stage and perform. You never know who's going to be on that stage, but you do know that Dave Hodge will be in the front row. That's right. By the way, did you, if you ever have,

and everyone listening and I urge them to do the same, but if you ever have a couple of hours, you just want to chill back, listen to Dave Hodge tell me his 100 favorite songs of all time. We do play the top 10, and he talks about detail. But I don't know if I've encountered a gentleman. I mean, you're close. Don't get me wrong. But the passion Dave Hodge

has for music, and it's not just you think, okay, well, Dave Hodge, I don't know, I don't want to age the guy, but he's late 60s maybe, early 70s, I don't know. We're not just talking about the music from the 60s he loved, okay? He's as current as any 19-year-old out there right now. It's amazing. It is

pretty amazing, and it's wonderful to see that someone who keeps up something they love and they keep pace with the changing tastes of today's listeners. I think it just makes us all look bad. That's what I think. Oh, that too. Jim Cuddy.

That's the Jim Cuddy, but here's my Greg Keeler jam. By the way, my favorite Blue Rodeo song of all time is this one right here. Let's talk. Okay, so Blue Rodeo, 1986. Are there any shout-outs or honorable mentions you want to give to performances at the Horseshoe in the 80s before this outskirts time for Blue Rodeo in 1986? Like the first half of the 80s. Yeah, off the top of my head, I'm sure there are lots.

I just can't think of them. I mean, there was definitely, like I said, Handsome Ned, who was, he was more known to be down at the Cameron House, but he did play the horseshoe as well. And he was, it's appropriate you're playing, you know, one of the songs that Greg leads on because in the book that's one of the things Greg tells me is that Handsome Ned was kind of like the ringmaster and he was the one that kind of built up the whole scene that they became a part of and it was a really special time

and like all scenes it came to an end but during that period and the thing that Jim Cuddy mentioned too that was important to note is that it was all driven by the artists, right? Unlike it was not a scene that the industry drove, it was all artist-driven, and they made their own scene,

and eventually the industry took notice. Special fun fact here for you because I had, a couple years ago, I had Ingrid Schumacher on the show. Long time Chum FM DJ and the fun fact is that her ex-husband was the original drummer for Blue Rodeo. Oh wow.

And he left the gig for a job with the post office. The Canadian Postal Service. I chatted with him for the book, Cleve Anderson. That's it. Yes. I wish I could remember his name. Thank you.

Yeah, and he came to my book launch in October. And yeah, he's a wonderful guy. But yeah, he still plays music today. And you kind of think, wow, I wonder what was. But yeah, he's now retired with a postman's pension and he's still able to enjoy and play drums in a number of bands. No regrets. You don't get a

crystal ball with these things. You do not. And how many bands don't make it like Berodeo did. And you had a family to support. It made sense at the time. So no judgments here, that's for sure. Here, let me play how about this one right here oh i could just listen to this jam you don't mind david if i uh

shut up for a minute no tell me about your fourth performance that mattered at the Horseshoe Tavern, the band reunion with Robbie Robertson. Yeah, I mean, unlike you, I feel a little blasphemous talking over this song because, yeah, the band is one of my favorites. You know, they just had such gorgeous harmonies. They all could write. And it was one of those performances, again, that it was a bit of a surprise, well, it was a surprise, and that's what made it so cool, and so such a

memorable moment, and one of the past owners, Kenny Sprackman, will get to the night the Stones played, and you know, for him, spoiler alert, yeah, alert but he he was uh the owner at that time as well but uh for him this show when the band uh kind of reunited with robbie robertson was even more special than the stones and it was basically uh colin linden who i i've gotten over the years great uh guitarist uh you know great human being and uh And he was playing that evening. And yeah, Robbie Robertson wasn't expected to show up. I mean, I think they'd put an invite out. And as Colin and the other couple band members that were still around were performing on stage,

Robbie came in the back door of the horseshoe with his guitar and told Kenny, I'm here, I'm ready to play. And this was late 80s, is that right? Yeah, late 80s. Okay, so that's when Robbie had his solo career. I remember at least a few big hits from Robbie Robertson getting plenty of airplay on Q107 and on Much Music, for sure. He was a big deal. Oh, definitely.

Yeah, and it was one of those, the reason for the show, it was the band was getting an reason for the show it was uh the band was getting an award at the junos and so everyone was in town for that and uh yeah so it again from what i understand and talking to colin i mean just and he sent me a few photos uh that i included in the book and just you see the smiles on the face and yeah just another one of those you know memorable memorable nights memorable nights that, uh, I remember like Kenny said, he ended up when this happened,

he went and I bought shooters for everyone in the whole bar. He was just so excited. And well, that's, that's pretty amazing to have a band reunion with Robbie Robertson, uh, on, on,

you know, a surprise and, you know, impromptu performance at the horseshoe. Like just imagine you're lucky enough to be in the, to be there. I mean, this is pre TwitterTwitter, right?

I don't even know. Somebody got on the phone and started phoning his buddies and like, you won't believe what's about to go down here. Oh, yeah. Well, not just pre-Twitter, pre-cell phones and everything, right? Yeah, late 80s. Man. Very, very, very cool.

And we're about to play some jams from my favorite band of all time. Let me... Here we go. How about this one? And I got to play a couple of hip because, of course, there is a reference in a Tragically Hip song to those checkerboard floors, which we'll get to in a minute there.

Yeah, for sure. That can only mean one thing. But the year was 1992. And I guess fully fully completely was uh like this is like a before fully completely is released is this like a fully completely preview show yeah definitely and that was uh you know the hip it's another one of those bands and you know gordon especially he had a real love for the horseshoe uhhoe. You know, my understanding, he even had his wedding reception there. Oh, wow. And so, yeah, it was something that their record label, well, even before that, I mean, just like Blue Rodeo before them,

it was kind of a showcase that happened at the Horseshoe that kind of led to their first record deal. to their first record deal. But then once that happened, it became a spot where the band loved to play and do a lot of these shows kind of before they went on tour. You know, as their star and stock was rising and they were playing bigger and bigger venues, they still loved to come back to the Horseshoe

and use that as a place where they could preview their songs. And this was uh supposedly one of those evenings uh fully completely still one of their uh their best albums most loved albums i i think it's the one that has probably sold almost the most i don't know if i had to guess i'd say you're right because it had that's to me like of course uh well the first one was really kind of quiet in canada but up to here was got a lot of radio playing much music playing had blowing high dough and uh it was a it was a big of radio play and much music play and had Blowin' High Dough,

and it was a big deal. Don't get me wrong. And New Orleans is Sinking and all that. Yeah. Road Apples, one of my personal favorite, probably a great album. Yeah.

Little Bones is on there, which was a big hit, and some cool stuff on there, but it's this album, fully, completely, which just, you know, it had courage. It just locked in the trunk of a car, as we're listening to now, courage.

Like, this is the album that blows them up, I'd say. It really was, yeah. And so that's why I chose this concert, this moment, back in 92, because I think it was right before they were set to go on a world tour, head over to Australia, you know, and play a bunch of places. And, you know, they ended up having a preview show at the Horseshoe. And it was one of those things their record company, their management loved to do. Do these shows where, you know, they would just announce it kind of secretly.

And, you know, those who knew got to know. And, you know, simple things like it might have been the Bourbon Tabernacle Choir that was billed as the band playing. And meanwhile, the hip would come on after them and use their instruments or be there. Again, I would have loved to have been at one of those shows.

Do you happen to know when the hip first played the Horseshoe? Because they must have played before 92, right? The Horseshoe Tavern. Definitely. I mean, you've stumped me there. I should have that date right on. I told you, David, I ask the tough questions on this show.

Keep it on your toes. That's good. I need the tough questions. But definitely, I know they played there probably in the late 80s, early 90s for the first time. They probably played Highway Girl and all that. Was it Small Town Bringdown? Yeah.

I love that song. That's back when Gord had long hair. Yeah. That's how far back we go there. It's fair to say I know that the Sadies, for example, would play the Horseshoe Tavern. And I know, for example, Gord did stuff with the Sadies, for example, would play the Horseshoe Tavern. And I know, for example, Gord did stuff with the Sadies. Could you go to a Sadies show at the Horseshoe Tavern and have Gord show up for a jam or two? Oh, definitely. And I mean, Gord, what I've noticed, too, with a lot of these musicians,

I mean, I've seen it with Basil Donovan from Blue Rodeo and Jim Cuddy even. And you name it, Luc Doucette, other artists. I mean, you know, they, they're as much music lovers as the rest of us. And sometimes they just show up and they'd be in the audience and they'd be, uh, you know, a fan for the evening. But, you know,

to answer your question. Yeah. I mean, Gord often, uh, he would get up on stage with the Sadies and play or other, other bands. If he was happened to be,

you know, in, in the house and, uh, you know, the spirit moved him. Now we can't leave the Tragically Hip without discussing the fact that

in Bob Cajun, he references those checkerboard floors. And without a doubt, like he's confirmed this, right? Because I've always assumed this to be the case, but I don't know if I've ever heard him say it, but that's definitely a reference to the Horseshoe Tavern. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, it's the famed checkerboard floors. It's the small dance floor in front of the stage, and yeah, that's, it's apropos that, you know, a place that meant so much to Gord, and he loved that, you know,

he would reference it in a song at some point. And not in a sense, no matter what happens with that, and hopefully, like you said, hopefully we have an 80th anniversary. There's not a lot of venues like that in Toronto left. We need to preserve these venues. And hopefully we do have a 100th anniversary of the Horseshoe Tavern, and hopefully you and I are there.

Yeah. But once you're referenced in a great song like this, you'll be remembered forever, right? Like, hopefully my great-grandkids will put on Bob Cajun one day, and somebody, hopefully my great-great-granddaughter, throws out a fun fact. Fun fact! A great-great-grandpa Mike would love this, but why does my great-great-granddaughter sound like that?

But she does, and she says, hey, those checkerboard floors, that was the old Horseshoe Tavern. Yeah. Amazing. Willie Nelson, he played the Horseshoe Tavern. He did, yeah. Willie played there, Waylon Jennings played there, and that was kind of around the Stompin' Tom era in those early 70s. It was kind of that outlaw country. Yeah, the cool country.

Very cool, yeah. And yeah, Willie's still going strong. I mean, I just saw him down at Farm Aid play for over an hour last September, and he's fantastic. Well, it's all that cannabis. It preserves him. Yeah, I'm sure it helps. Waylon Jennings. So you mentioned Waylon Jennings,

who might be, he's famous for a bunch of stuff, but hold on. Here it is. There you go. Right on cue. What was I saying? Waylon Jennings.

So find a guy my age, okay, early 40s and just say Waylon Jennings. And we'll tell you, first thing we'll tell you is the Duke's a hazard theme. That's right. Good old boys never meaning no harm. Like that's Waylon Jennings. But I believe he's the guy who gave up his spot on the infamous flight the night the music died.

I think he's the guy who had to ride the bus. He drew the short straw. Yeah. And I think the big bopper, well, obviously the big bopper, Richie Valens, and of course, Buddy Holly, unfortunately, are on that flight. But Waylon Jennings had to take the bus.

Yeah, just a neat little side story about Waylon Jennings, again, that shows going back to Jack Starr and how much he was loved. I interviewed Russell DeCarle for the book, who was in the band Prairie Oyster. He's still performing, had a solo record out recently, but he remembers when Prairie Oyster was down in Nashville recording many years ago, and it happened Whalen

was in the studio next to them, and they'd meet around the coffee, around the cooler, and he mentioned about Toronto, that'd meet around the coffee, around the cooler. And, you know, he mentioned about Toronto. That's where we're from. And, you know, mentioned the horseshoe. And he had nothing but glowing words to say about Jack Starr and the horseshoe that he still remembered his times playing there. Awesome. Awesome. The Tragically Hip at the Horseshoe Tavern, 1992.

And here, this will make Dave Hodge proud here. One of his favorite, one of his top ten jams actually. I had it loaded in the soundboard from his appearance, but let's go to 1995 and Wilco. Yeah, again,

you know, I wasn't living in Toronto at the time, but this would have been a show I would have, you know, died to see. I mean, before Wilco, you know, I was in university in the kind of early 90s, and I discovered at a buddy's house one night, he put it on late in the evening, Uncle Tupelo's Anodyne. Uncle Tupelo's Anodyne. And to me, that's still one of my desert island discs. I just, there's something about the songs on that record and, you know, Tweety and Farrar. And, you know, to me, you know, they both got on to great solo careers

and careers with other bands, with Sunvolt and with Wilco. But Uncle Tupelo for me, you talk about bands I would have loved to see reunite, that would be it. But the reason I mention that is when I looked at the set list online from this Woco show, I mean, they covered the whole gamut and they did do a few of my favorite Uncle Tupelo songs in there. And this show, for another reason, it was kind of right around the time when the current owners, Jeff Cohn and Craig Lasky, were brought on board.

And, you know, they actually came in to meet with Kenny Sprackman about coming into the business and helping out with the promotions. You know, right when Wilco was doing soundcheck and they were one of Craig Lasky's favorites. Right. one of Craig Lasky's favorites. And so for him to see them, he was almost more nervous about seeing Wilco doing soundcheck, he told me, than going and talking to Kenny about

taking over some of the day-to-day promotion of the venue. That's funny. That's funny. So, Wilco95. Now, if you feel free to drop any names of any artists because now you're in the 90s. Now I'm all tuned in here. So, if you feel free to drop any names of any artists, because now you're in the 90s. Now I'm all tuned in here.

So for bands like, I'll throw out a couple bands that I loved at the time, like the Pursuit of Happiness or the Lowest of the Low. These are the kind of bands that were regular at that venue. Yeah, I mean, there's so many. I mean, you talk about Canadian bands. I mean, yeah, the Lowest of the Low, the Spirit

of the West. Oh, yes, of course. The Pursuit of Happiness, Great Big Sea. I mean, yeah, the Lowest of the Lows, the Spirit of the West. Oh, yes, of course. Right. The Pursuit of Happiness, Great Big Sea. I mean, right. The list goes on and on of those type of bands. But then, like I said, this was at the time period when, you know, Jeff and Craig were coming in. And, you know, as we go into the late 90s and, you know, one of the things, you know, they both love kind of these newer alt-country type bands and the Wilco Vane. And, you know, they started bringing a lot of great acts, you know, of that ilk, you know, like the Alejandro Escobedos and, you know, Nico Case and, you know, Old 97s actually was my first show at the Horseshoe. Like I said, I came to it late, and they became one of my favorite bands. So, you know, there were just so many bands, like I said, that have played there.

And so many, you're surprised. You can't believe that, you know, they've got their bands that have been on so many bigger stages. But, you know, they did cram onto that Horseshoe stage and played there. They did cram onto that horseshoe stage and played there. Let's play a ditty from a small, lesser-known indie band. I hope the people listening have heard of this band. We were in the news the other day, because apparently, this is ridiculous to me, but Keith made some crack to the New York Times or something about Mick Jagger's having another baby right yeah he's like 78 years old or something and he's gonna father another kid so

none of my business good for me but keith had some thoughts that was kind of irresponsible you know keith you know get her uh get it get yourself fixed because you're not gonna be around to see this kid you know and then i saw keith Richards apologized, which might be the least rock and roll thing ever. Someone mentioned that. I thought that was quite funny what people pick up on. But yeah, I mean, it's incredible. They're still going and, you know, obviously not playing as much as they once won. But I mean, when you talk about the greatest rock and roll bands of all time i mean there's few people that will argue that it's not the rolling stones right

i mean they epitomize rock and roll and in every aspect of the word well let's put this way like uh let's people my mom's age okay for example you know you had your beetle your beetles and rolling stones were the big bands in the 60s. If you look at the Beatles, their creative time is like, I'm going to say like between like 1964 and 1969, let's say, okay? Do you know those five years? Like we talk about the Beatles, it's five big years. I know the band was together longer than that, well, earlier than that, but that's five key years of creativity from the Beatles, okay? The Stones are probably writing something right now. Yeah, well, they've been around for over 50, right, if you think from the time they formed

and they've still been putting out music. So, the reality is when you talk about the Horseshoe, I mean, it is known as the legendary Horseshoe Tavern and, you know, I think it rightly deserves that moniker. And so, it was only a matter of time, in my opinion that you'd

get the greatest rock and roll band that would eventually play that stage right let's yeah let's talk about that so that's specifically uh this performance is september 4th 1997 so this is is this one of those you know the rolling stones were notorious for uh kind of coming to toronto before their big tours or whatever and they would like like, I don't know, they would practice in a hangar or something. Like, I don't know, at the airport or something like that, right? Like they would just come here. So they would often do surprise shows as they were kind of working out the kinks before they would go on their big tours.

So in 1997, they did a surprise show at the Horseshoe Tavern. Yeah, this was another one of those. It was a surprise. I mean, it almost never happened. And yes, they were in town. surprise show at the Horseshoe Tavern. Yeah, this was another one of those. It was a surprise. I mean, it almost never happened. And yes, they were in town. It was before they were going on, I think, promoting the Bridges to Babylon album.

And there was the MTV Music Awards that were happening live from New York City. And so initially, they were just looking for a place that the band was going to present an award and it turned into from them hanging that they wanted a venue that was kind of intimate, a cool spot. And it ended up that, you know, the horseshoe was chosen. You know, they'd played the El Macombo before and played a few other venues with some of these secret shows, small club type shows in Toronto in the past, but had never played the shoe. And this almost never happened. I mean, because, you know, they were the ownership at the time and the managers were getting phone calls and from

the Stones management and they thought it was a joke, right? They didn't think this was true, but, you know, it all kind of came together. And the part actually that I love the best about this, and I was able to interview him for my book, is that there was a Texas songwriter called Jack Ingram, who, again, he's still performing, still playing. He was the headliner that evening. And he didn't find out the Stones were playing until he and his band arrived in town early that afternoon.

And basically, you know, the owners came out and kind of said, oh, don't worry, everything's still the same. You're still going to play. He's like, what are you talking about? But so the cool part, till this day, he can kind of claim that, you know, the Stones opened up for him. That's fantastic. That is fantastic.

This Stone song I'm playing now, one of my personal favorites, was the theme song for a show when I was younger called China Beach. I believe it was China Beach. And the theme song was Paint It Black. And then I discovered, because my old man had records, and I discovered Hot Rocks. Oh, yeah. Right?

And Hot Rocks had this song on it. And basically, this is my gateway to the Stones, which is I just, on vinyl, I listen to Hot Rocks had this song on it and basically this is my gateway to the Stones which is I just on vinyl I listen to Hot Rocks both albums like over and over again I still that Midnight Rambler live version like the whole thing Give Me Shelter all that like so to me I know the Stones put out a lot of stuff after well Hot Rocks I think is till 19 I don't know it's 71 I think I think it's 64 to 71 something like that so I know post 71 there's think. I think it's 64 to 71. Yeah, something like that. So I know post-71, there's lots of big Rolling Stones songs.

But to me, really, the Stones are 1964 to 71. If it's not on Hot Rocks, it doesn't count, okay? Oh, it's interesting you mention Hot Rocks, because, yeah, I mean, that was kind of my introduction, but I didn't have the vinyl.

I got the double CD, I remember. Well, eventually, when I had my own collection, I got that double CD, too. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, I pretty much wore it out. But then, like, that's what I love about music, right? Some things I had my own collection, I got that double CD too. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, I pretty much wore it out. But then that's what I love about music, right? Some things I did discover too through my dad's vinyl collection,

like Neil Young's Harvest and Jimmy Buffett records and things that I still love today. But other stuff like that, I discovered maybe it was one album, but then you dig back and you go into their treasure chest of their archives and songs and keep digging further and then you see who influenced them and that's how I kind of got into the blues or country artists or things and that's what the great thing about music, it's kind of like that rabbit

hole, right? Once you go down you don't know where you're going to end up. No, you're absolutely right and you'll hear the odd complaint about greatest hits compilations like, no, you need to hear the album. Like, you know, that's the wrong introduction to bands and Hot Rocks is a great example where you and I have the same experience

our Rolling Stones introduction is Hot Rocks which is was a greatest hit 64 to 71 but then that leads you

into the rabbit hole as you said yeah so go greatest hits go legend I would like to

interview who is the, I don't know, let's say anyone under the age of 25 who has never owned Bob Marley's legend. That's the person

I want to talk to on this podcast. Yeah. Well, I was fortunate years ago. I did interview Ziggy Marley and he was fascinating. But, you know,

you talk about, I mean, my son loves to do these things. You know, what concerts would you love to have seen or who would you? And yeah, that's almost number one on my list to have seen Bob Marley live. I know he did play Massey Hall and I believe Maple Leaf Gardens as well. But he just had such a presence.

And, you know, that's one of those. Yeah, if I could go back in time, he would have been the one. I play that game at the dinner table. I'll do that with the teenagers and my wife because the little ones have no comment. They just want to hear Splashin' Boots. But absolutely, I do stuff like that all the time. And I always say, if you could go to any concert

of anyone living or dead at any time, and we'd go around the table and do that. I love that stuff. Absolutely, Bob Marley. By the way, you mentioned Ziggy Marley. He did the theme song to Arthur, which is the cartoon artwork who I still see

on a regular basis. So great jam right there. Hey, how about this? This is a gentleman I'm not even that familiar with, so you're going to have to fill in the gap for me. In the late 90s, Link Wray played the Horseshoe Tavern, one of the performances that matter.

Tell me why. Why in this case? I guess this was again with the current ownership group. They did a great job too of acknowledging the past, even though they were setting their own, creating their own agenda and creating their own path. They still realize that there are some of these legendary artists out there who deserve, like we just finished talking about,

a new generation to discover. And Link Wray is one of those guys that those in the know know, but he was actually on the most recent Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction list. And unfortunately for another year he didn't make it. But there was a real campaign because there's a lot of musicians who, like his guitar style, I mean, he's kind of people talk about him. And he was also an indigenous artist. So you have that as well.

So he came and played the horseshoe. And so it was a big deal for a lot of people that another one I wasn't at. But, you know, in talking to people who were there, it was one of those seminal moments in horseshoe history. Yeah, the name, like it seemed oddly familiar to me, but I couldn't claim to like know any any Link Wraith songs when you sent me the list. So I had to catch up quick, if you will. So I did score a couple. This is The Swag. And yeah, so that's

late 90s. So The Stones are 97. Link Wray is late 90s. And we're going to... We have one more performance coming up from the late 90s. 1999, before we get into the 2000s here. But let's listen to the end of the swag here. oh you know what that's too funny you know what i screwed up this is you know that's too funny i threw on everlong one of my favorite crew fighter songs yeah and of course i loaded in

the song everlong but i didn't test it or whatever. But this is... I have some instrumental songs of my... Instrumental versions, violin versions of my favorite songs. That was for my wedding in the distillery district. So, hey, we won't listen to this version of Everlong. But here, I have some different Foo Fighters here. We'll play this guy.

For most people, this was like the first Foo Fighter song they ever heard. Tell me about the Foo Fighters playing the Horseshoe Tavern in 1999. Yeah, another one of those moments. I mean, this one speaks to, you know, I reference it in my book. And most people who kind of follow, you know, the Toronto music scene or who's listened to radio for years. I mean, he's still going today. You have Dave Bookman.

And, you know, he was instrumental in starting, God, I think, you know, it was well over 20 years ago, this New Music Night. I'm glad you're mentioning Bookie. Yeah. Yeah. We got to give him some credit here. For sure. He's synonymous with new music at the Horseshoe. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, for those who don't know, I mean, basically, you think of the Horseshoe, what has always amazed me about it, too, is, you know, you're not talking about a venue that just had music, live music on the weekends. Right. They were booking music six, seven nights a week. And, you know, talk about, you know, a challenge.

I mean, and Bucky came up with the idea. It was always, you know, kind of early in the week, one of those slow nights, Tuesday nights. And it had kind of been tested out at another place, but the Horseshoe is really where it came to life and found its home this new music night on Tuesdays. And the whole concept was bringing a whole bunch of up-and-coming bands, don't charge a cover, and let about four or five bands play and give them a you know, a stage

and an opportunity to play a venue like the Horseshoe and hopefully gain some new fans. And also, you know, you fill in that night, which was harder to book. But what also started happening, I mean, Bookie at the time was, you know, working at CFNY and the radio station. And, you know, he was interviewing a lot of these big bands when they came to town and so it afforded him the opportunity. Sometimes he'd ask, hey, do you mind coming out and playing at the Horseshoe, right?

And this is one of those examples. Foo Fighters is where it happened. I mean, this wasn't their record company that said, hey, let's do this. This was them, you know, Bookie asking them and so they would come in on one of these new music nights. So they'd still have maybe a few of those early kind of unknown opening bands. But then, you know, the headliner that evening would be someone like the Foo Fighters.

Incredible. I mean, I've been lucky enough to see the Foo Fighters live and just tremendous. Like that's a great rock band. Again, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, apropos, we talked about Rolling Stones before. Because, yeah, but I think Foo Fighters are one of those kind of in the modern era. I mean, they are kind of known, I mean, as, you know, the quintessential rock and roll band that, you know, everyone loves.

Here's a fun fact. You probably don't know this. Did you know the lead singer of Foo Fighters was the drummer for Nirvana? Yeah. I think my buddy Elvis, every time Foo Fighters come out by Tom, fun fact, Dave Grohl was the drummer for Nirvana. Yeah. I think my buddy Elvis, every time Foo Fighters come out, I tell him, fun fact, Dave Grohl was the drummer for Nirvana. But yeah, Foo Fighters. And I once saw an interview. I actually can't remember.

Maybe it was Erica M., maybe not. But somebody was interviewing Dave Grohl, and they asked him, like, dude, you're like a musical genius. Look at the stuff you write. And the first album was all him. Like, you know, the first album was all him. Like, you know, it was all him. And they were like,

how could you just drum for a band? Like, you know what I mean? And he said he didn't want to pollute the process was how he put it. And I thought

that's kind of neat. Like, I think he had a sense of what was happening at that time with that band and he didn't want to pollute the process. But he had... Great answer. Yeah, great answer.

Yeah, he needed, luckily, luckily he was going to put out his own stuff anyway, and then the Foo Fighters is still together, so tremendous. 1999, I wish I was at that show. Oh, yeah, that's, again, it goes back to, you know, what I learned from this is, yeah, no regrets, but you just you just think again if you go back

in time and so many incredible shows that uh you know i've been fortunate to see so many at the horseshoe but there's so many of these seminal ones i just think wow to have been in the audience that night how incredible that would be right to see a band of their stature in that small space i'd be curious to ask uh to know like of all those new music nights Bookie has hosted how many of those bands you can say oh that's where this band made you know what I mean like bands who ended up becoming kind of big deals or what not

it'd be interesting to that'd be good to ask him yeah I'm sure oh he doesn't want to do this podcast I asked him did he talk to you for the book he did actually he was very gracious and actually my book launched back last October he was to you for the book? He did, actually. He was very gracious. And actually, my book launched back last October. He was the emcee for the evening as well. Maybe I need to drop your name when I'm talking to him.

My best friend, Tim McPherson. All right, here we go. So that's 1999. And again, if we've skipped any honorable mentions, just spit them out because you can't drop too many names on this show. But here, let's play. This band is your final performance that mattered

at the Horseshoe from November 1st, 2003. Drive-By Truckers. Great southern rock band. Was it Damien? I want to get the right person, but somebody kicked out the jams recently. I think it was Damien Cox

who had a Drive-By Truckers song. Maybe it was Sarah Bosville from Chatelaine. I almost calledville from Chatelaine. I almost called it Miss Chatelaine. Did Katie Lang ever play the horseshoe? Because that would be a kind of up-and-coming Katie Lang. I believe she did. So what can you tell me about why the drive-by truckers on November 1st, 2003

were one of the horseshoe Tavern performances that mattered? This one, it matters because it was one of the shows I was at and it was a memorable show for me. And another, you know, one of those bands kind of in that alt country, you know, southern rock kind of cross between the two vein. But this is one of those nights it was kind of right before Halloween and you know the band didn't get on stage till after 11 30 at night and you know by that point the place was just jammed you know everyone with the walls were sweating or as they say and you know I'd had the opportunity. I hung out a bit in the dressing room before with the band and, you know, imbibed a little bit.

But it was just one of those memorable nights where, you know, they had so much energy. And, you know, you haven't seen them, incredible live band. And at the time, Jason Isbell, who, you know, a great songwriter, since left the band and gone on to have some incredible success of his own. I mean, he had just joined Drive-By Truckers at the time.

So, you know, they basically had three songwriters, three guitarists. And it was just a raucous evening that, you know, they went on and played encore after encore until almost two in the morning. Very cool. Now, I just mentioned Sarah Boesvelt, and she writes for Shadow Lane. And I still remember her telling me that John Hyatt's daughter is a singer, Lily Hyatt. Yeah.

And she's very good. In fact, one of Lily Hyatt's songs was in Sarah's 10 jams that she kicked out. And Lily Hyatt was coming to the horseshoe. And I guess she tweeted, hey, do I have any Toronto fans that can put us up for the night? And Sarah raised her hand and Lily Hyatt and her band spent the night crashed at Sarah's home. Oh, very cool. I know.

I'm thinking maybe, you know, I'm going down to South by Southwest in Austin for the first time to present my book in a week and a half. Maybe I should have done the same because, you know, hotels are not cheap. No, that's right. Lily knows that. She's like, yeah, I just need a place to rest my head for the night and brush my teeth in the morning. But I thought that was cool. And that's just some of the great new acts that still come through town and play at the Horseshoe Tavern. So bring us up to speed.

So that's 2003 for Drive-By Truckers. So since then, obviously, you've got lots of great performances happening at the Horseshoe Tavern. Is there anything, any honorable mentions you want to give for the last 15 years? Anything you want to throw out there? What am I putting on the spot there? Too many to mention, but really for me, personal shows I saw, a lot of it was just all the big North by Northeast, you know, showcase performances that, you know,

where you had multiple artists on one evening, you know, Luke Doucette and, you know, people like Alejandro Escobedo. And, you know, I'm trying to think about, well, I've seen Matt Mays there. I mean, one of the first times I saw him was at the Horseshoe Tavern during a North by Northeast performance. And, you know, bringing right up to speed. I mean, it's still going six, seven nights a week. And there's still been some recently amazing people coming through.

More announcements being made every day. You know, the guys that Craig and Jeff and the promoters there doing an incredible job keeping their ear to the ground of what's happening. And, you know, for the 70th anniversary, that was an exciting time. I mean, I wasn't able to make it down for every show, but, you know, basically, you know, you had the Jim Cuddy band that was played. You have Los Alois, you're playing right now. They played a few shows. Skydiggers did their annual Christmas show, Tea Party, Pursuit of Happiness. I mean, 5440 played there. So,

you know, they brought back a lot of these bands that had, you know, real history with the place. And so that was pretty neat to see. and pretty much all of them sold out. It's appropriate we close with Lois and Lo because I believe I was at the last show that Stephen Stanley played with the band, I think. We're going back five years or something like that. But I saw them at the Horseshoe Tavern. Yeah.

And Lois and Lo at the Horseshoe Tavern, there's nothing better, man. It's just a great night. It's just fantastic. I hope there's no plans to update the decor of the Horseshoe Tavern because it's, talk about a time machine. The music's a time machine. Two things when I go to the Horseshoe Tavern.

One is it still looks like, I'm assuming it looked like, you're right, you mentioned the A&W is kind of there and you can order that from like the side there, that window or whatever. But it looks like, I think it might have looked in the 70s or whatever. And it smells like it might have smelled in the 70s. Well, like I write in the intro to my book, it's, you know, it's a dive, but it's a beautiful dive, if that makes any sense. But that's so true. I mean, that's what makes it the horseshoe too. It's not trying to be anything else.

There's nothing pretentious about the horseshoe. It's not about the aesthetics and what it looks like, but it's always been known to have great sound. It's got great sight lines and great staff. And you know you're always going to get great music there. David, thank you so much for this. This was a delight. I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

I hope you enjoyed yourself as well. Oh, I did. Thanks for having me. It was so was so much fun and again if people want to buy the book because we just got a taste here but there's a great book you wrote all about this tell everybody where they should go right now to go buy the book it's basically available at your favorite bookseller amazon indigo right chapters your local indie bookseller. It's a legendary horseshoe tavern. A complete history. Except no substitutes. Make sure it's by David McPherson. And that brings us to

the end of our 310th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. David is at McPherson.com with two M's at the end. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Propertyinthe6.com is at Brian Gerstein. And PayTM is at PayTM Canada.

See you all next week. Yes, I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you? All that picking up trash And them down roads