Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - The Michael Landsberg Exit Interview: Toronto Mike'd #895

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

Mike chats with Michael Landsberg about why he's leaving TSN after 37 years, his legacy, and what's next for him.

you have a, you know, a kind soul, which, which, or at least you appear to be, you could be at, you know, a total, total piece of crap, but you come across as a nice guy and people want to share with a nice guy. So I think that's why you're good at your job. Toronto VK on the beat I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm a Toronto Mike, you wanna get the city love My city love me back for my city love Welcome to episode 895 of Toronto Miked

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Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is a man who's leaving TSN after 37 years, Michael Landsberg. Good morning, Michael. Good morning. What's up? Good morning, Michael. Good morning. What's up? What's up with you? I read the news today. Oh boy. So this is a Tuesday. We just had the Civic Holiday Long Weekend.

And on the Friday, I read a press release from Bell Media. Maybe you caught wind of some of this, but I'm just going to read the first paragraph. It says, Maybe you caught wind of some of this, but I'm just going to read the first paragraph. It says, TSN announced today that Michael Landsberg is departing TSN 1050 Toronto after five years as a daily host with the station. Landsberg most recently appeared as co-host of the station's morning program, first up with Landsberg and Koliakovo. I guess I'm curious how this came to be. Why are you leaving TSN after 37 years?

Well, the 37 years, I think, is an answer unto itself. I mean, I can go serious on this, or I can go to the half serious, half fun, which ultimately may be a more accurate answer. I mean, I think that I started considering this a while ago. I remember saying to my wife very often after we click off at 10 a.m. after doing the show, I go, you know, I kind of feel like if anyone has ever done that, it's me, right? And I'm thinking to myself, or I said to her, Kare, you know, I just, sometimes I just feel really unsatisfied when I hang up because I feel like I've done this so many times, not just first up, but do you know, well, probably not, but I'm going to tell you, before we did Off the Record, I figured out one day I did 5,000 episodes of Sports Desk. We did off the record. We did 18 seasons at 210 shows a season, which is close to 4,000 shows.

And then I just did five years of this. And it's sports talk, right? I mean, no matter how you cut it, it's sports talk. And I just thought, oh, my God, like, like, is this all you're good for? And I think it was a challenge to myself that I started to feel like I really needed. And I became sort of obsessed with the idea, okay, let's find a different form, a different format, a different challenge for me. So if I'm hearing you correctly, it was your idea, like you were the catalyst here to say, like, I think I'm done?

Mm-hmm. It was. And I think that, I mean, I have a very, very warm and almost family-like relationship with the people that employ me. I mean, that's obviously changed greatly over the years. And I have nothing to benefit at this point, you know, to be kissing my boss's ass, right? It's like, oh, yeah, well, he's talking nicely about Stu Johnston, who's the president of TSN, but sure, you know,

he doesn't want to insult his boss, not my boss anymore, to the point where there's a sense of liberty today, Mike, that freedom that I Mike, that freedom that I feel, not freedom from something bad, just freedom, period. So I went to Stuart and we started talking about this. And it was really important to me that if I was going to be leaving that, that I would leave on the best possible terms. I mean, like, it's such a shame in this business. How often do you hear about people that leave the place that was their life, that was their work family, that they were so associated with, and then when they leave,

it's bad, right? You know, and that happens more often than not. You know, I'm thinking of well-known personalities in Toronto and nationally, and it doesn't usually happen where people, you know, remain good friends. Now, okay, so you have this idea that you've decided you're done. I guess you talked to your bosses. Is there some sort of like negotiation here?

Like, is there, I guess I'm curious, were you severed? Did you receive a package here on your way out? I don't think I can talk about that. But I felt like they were extremely fair to me. And I felt like when we were talking about this, that they had my interest as much at heart as they had their interest. Because let's face it, I mean, whatever arrangement you come up with, it's more impactful on me than it is on them. I mean, Bell's a massive company. Whatever we're talking about here was like spit in the river.

I actually have a river running right beside me, right in the heart of Toronto. It's unbelievable. And that's what you get from being a Canadian broadcaster to live beside a river. So I felt like they understood that this was more important to me than it was to them. I felt like there was, there was never a, okay, I'm going to try to squeeze everything I can out of that guy. And they made it easy for me to leave, at least partially, I think, because of to me, Hey, good job, man. You know, we had bell let's talk day and we basically only one person talked about it for the next 364. And that

was you. Right. Uh, on that note, will you be participating in bell? Let's talk day in 2022. If they asked me to absolutely for sure. I mean, I would do it for a couple of reasons. I would do it, number one, because it has value. But number two, also, it has value. When I say it has value, I mean to people in general, right? You know, like Bell Let's Talk Day. You could, I mean, they take tons of criticism about it. But the bottom line is, it certainly does no harm. And I think it does some good. And it gives me a bigger stage, you know, for my charity on that day to, you know, to to be seen and to be heard. OK, we'll be talking more about Sick Not Weak very shortly, but I still have my exit interview questions. Yeah, well, you know what? You're thinking to yourself, you know, we could talk about Sick Not Weak because Landsberg probably really wants to do that. But I'd rather talk about the good stuff, about why he left. And I'm good with the good stuff. Hey, man, let's talk about everything that you're thinking.

Okay, because we are going to get to Sick Not Weak because obviously I want to find out more about this next chapter. I'm very keen. But I'm also curious, for example, in Toronto, I have a lot of people over for their exit interview. And some people get like a farewell tour. Like, was there any talk about because after 37 years, I feel like you are you are TSN. And like to hear to see the press release Friday, and then Friday be the last show. It feels a little I'll pick on some other FOTMs here, but a little Kevin Frank-ish maybe, where it just seems very sudden.

And where's the Mike Cooper cake farewell tour? Where is this celebration? It just feels a bit sudden for us fans of you. Okay, I can address that for sure. By the way, it was funny when OTR ended, they had a, you know, I don't want to criticize them, but it was about as little as you could do for a human being. They had a bottle of champagne and a cake. And I said, I don't drink and I don't eat cake.

But thanks very much. But it seems like you've all really prepared well for this understanding. What would bring me joy? like you've all really prepared well for this understanding what would bring me joy uh so i i i think that i can answer that in a couple of different ways number one uh we had been talking about this for uh some time uh number two uh i had been on holidays um because uh i wanted to take holidays uh i needed to take holidays. And before we came to the decision that this was going to be something that we could do, both sides, I had to fill out holiday requests, right? Because everybody wants to take holidays during the summer. So I was going to be off and it was like, okay, you know, this, this is good. And then, uh, um,

it just came down to, um, you know, the, uh, I think in terms of their mechanics, the end of the month was the time that, uh, that they wanted to do it. And that was good with me because I, I did not want and understand this very clearly. Understand this, Mike? I'm listening. Yeah, it's serious business here. I didn't want a sentimental conversation. I get very uncomfortable for that. So I didn't want the last week of the show, hey, let's bring on people that Michael knows. that michael knows hey do you recognize this voice and then i go oh my gosh that's noted trivia expert liam mcguire who was a great guest on off the record hello liam it just it's just michael it's not it's not all about you right like uh how do i

say this delicately you've got a a loyal fan base that might have needed that like that's part of our like we need that don't we, isn't that for us as well? Well, let me put it this way. And thank you for, for mentioning a loyal fan base. It was funny because when the announcement came out, Mike, on Friday, people started to tweet, right? And I responded to their very kind tweets by saying, okay, where are all of you who every single day of Off the Record in particular would send me an email

that said, you suck. I hate your guts. You're the worst person on the air. TSN should be ashamed. You need to be pulled off the air and sent to jail. You know, like, like, like I heard that all the time and go get another plastic surgery, Landsberg. I mean, like every day I heard that. So I challenged people. I said, come on, where are you? I, you know, like, don't be kind to me because I'm leaving. Like, I want to hear this. This is all part of, like, I kind of look at it like it's part of my success. You know, the people that hated me were part of why I, I lasted as long as I did, especially on off the record. And we only got like three guys who said, yeah, thank God, good riddance to you. So I didn't know any of that, though. Like I was really shocked. I was really shocked that people were as kind and as giving

and as emotionally attached to me as I found out they were. Because I just thought it would fall flat. So I just, you know, you don't know me that well. You don't know me that well, Mike. I get very embarrassed. I give out a compliment way better than I take a compliment. And the idea of, and I'll take it in a bit of a different direction. You know, the idea of of celebrating my time at TSN kind of kind of it kind of makes me a little bit nauseous.

Now, you think of where is he going with this? I'm just going to pause and let you think about that. I'm just going to pause and let you think about that. Yeah, let's hear this. Go ahead. It's not uncommon for people to be uncomfortable with heaps of praise laid upon them. So let me hear more. You know, I think it was the whole idea that I was retiring and that, you know, this was it for me. And wow, you know, what a great career or whatever, however you would refer to it.

And I just, I don't like that. I'm not retiring, right? I mean, the idea of retiring is not appealing to me at all in any way. And because I've worked in Canadian television, I've accumulated very little wealth that would allow me to say, okay, you know what? I'm just going to sit back and do something else. So the idea of the farewell tour was really, I mean, if I had to do it, I guess I would have done it because as I said, my priority was to leave on good terms, But no one seemed to push for it that much. So I guess nobody else wanted it either. Fascinating here. I'm going to make you feel uncomfortable in a moment by just reading some praise that some have written about you. So

get ready for that. But here's a question that came in when I announced you were coming on Toronto Mike this morning. Someone named Corey wrote me and said, ask him if he's happy not to have to work with that wiener kid of his anymore. Well, you know, here's the problem. Wiener kid is a very specific thing. Wiener kid is like, you may think I just describes, you know, a kid who's whatever. And a wiener kid is a very specific, I won't say illness, but disability. If you have a wiener kid, then you have a kid who can drive you nuts because of their wienerness. And wienerism itself is a reason as a parent to,

for instance, go for a vasectomy. If you've had a couple of wiener kids, you can't go for the third wiener kid. That's a term that we use. Corey's my son, as you know, for instance, go for a vasectomy. If you've had a couple of wiener kids, you can't go for the third wiener kid. That's a term that we use. Corey's my son, as you know. And that's a term that we use to describe other kids. Never, not my kids. I don't think my kids in any way are wiener kids.

But when there's people that you know, and that doesn't mean you don't like them. That just means that they're kind of sucky, kind of whiny, I don't know. Wiener kids. So you know what? It was such a blessing for me to work with Corey. He started off when we were at Dome Production shooting off the record.

He was going to Centennial College. Now, he and school were never tight. He was going to Centennial College and he came in one day and Mary Ellen Carlisle, who ran and runs, and I worked with her, I think from the first day of TSN, has run brilliantly Dome Productions for years. And she said to Corey, oh, Corey, tell me what you're doing. He said I'm at Centennial College, but he wasn't enjoying it that much because I think, I think because of me, I think, I think he took a lot of heat because of his dad. And then there was the feeling by everyone, oh, you know, he's going to get special treatment, which maybe at

the end of the story he did, because she said, do you do Chiron? And Chiron being like the fonts on the screen and stuff like that. And he goes, no. She says, do you want to learn? He said, on the screen and stuff like that. And he goes, no. She says, do you want to learn? He said, sure. And do you want a job? And he said, sure. She goes, okay. So he started working on Chiron on Off the Record. And that evolved when we moved from the Dome to moving up to Asian Court, where it's unionized. He couldn't do that. So he started working on Off the Record. And the last two or three years of OTR, he was like the guy in my ear, which was, which was really, really pretty awesome to have your son in your ear. When I say in your ear, that's, you know, essentially, you know, if you're watching the Olympics, for instance,

right, you would have Scott Russell, you know, in the studio. And if he's ad-libbing, especially, which most of the coverage I think has been on script, which I don't love, but you would see him, he would have an earpiece, right? And there would be someone in his ear that he trusted to give him, you know, the right information at the right time. Like you can time it out.

And a producer that does it well, like Bob Makowitz, who produced Off the Record for the first 10 years, it was like he was in my thoughts, right? He would hit me at exactly the right time with exactly the right thing. And Corey was great at that. So I feel totally blessed to have worked with my son to watch him grow. Now, before I read some comments about you, I'm curious, what do you, Michael Landsberg, think your legacy is in this industry? How do you see yourself? I don't know as a dog owner.

Yeah, Riggs, I told you when I'm uncomfortable with a question, I will signal you. Okay. I would say that my legacy is, okay, I'm not going to start my sentence with my legacy is because it sounds a little bit obnoxious. The things that I'm most proud of are that I was 100% genuine and authentic all the time. That when TSN started, I realized that I was not the same as Jim Van Horn and John Wells, for instance. That those guys had a method of delivering sports that was not me. And I kind of feel like right from the first day, I was this guy that some people liked and some people didn't like that. You know, I was I was I tried to bring an

entertainment value to it. Every single time I did a highlight pack and I did a lot of highlight packs. When you think about it on sports desk, I never read the notes that anyone gave me. All I did was I said, give me the names. So that would just be a name, a pitcher, a hitter, the score, the inning. And I would watch the screen and I would do it. And sometimes, you know, that sometimes that was like really good. It was like, oh, man, that was awesome. And then sometimes it'd be like, oh, man, that was terrible. I was like stumbling all over that. So I think I was genuine and authentic and that I never played the middle.

You know, I lived my career at TSN basically as, I mean, off the record was prominent, but off the record was not like hosting hockey. I was never the guy that people saw in management or at least not very often as the mainstream guy, right, that everybody likes. Like when you have hockey as a property, you'd want everyone to watch. But you know that not everyone's going to watch a show like Off the Record. So you're willing to put someone who would attract more of a niche audience. And that's why I think I never got the chances, nor would I have given myself the chances necessarily to do this. I just never sold out.

And when I say sold out, I never changed who I was. So my legacy at TSN was he was a personality. He was the kind of guy that you could like,. He was the kind of guy that you could like, and he was the kind of guy that you could dislike. And he never really seemed to care which one it was. And then there's the whole mental health thing. But as a broadcaster, which was my job there, my job wasn't the mental health thing, was that I was genuine, authentic. was that I was genuine, authentic. There never will be another Michael Landsberg, because I'm the only one. And if I was acting like somebody else, if I was mimicking someone before me, then yeah, there may be a duplicate, but it's me. You know, I had Gino Vannelli in

this basement a couple of years back. And whenever I'd ask him a question that he was uncomfortable with, he would break into song, like this was was his move he had his guitar and he would just break into like a different version of like black cars or whatever and you could tell very early on in this episode that that was the move when he didn't want to answer authentically he would just start singing that could be like that could be your dog's role in this like you just sort of you know your dog can just start barking whenever there's something you're uncomfortable with. Yeah. I got to think of a cue. Pretty smart. We'll work on that. You know, I mean, praise makes me uncomfortable. I'm very, this is funny. Well, not funny. Ha ha. But I'm very comfortable with insults.

Honestly, Mike, I would, I would groom people to insult me. I would say things that I knew that they would come back. And when they insulted me online, especially in social media, because let's face it, that's where you get them. Very seldom do you get someone in person to actually say the things that they would say online. And I'm not a believer that,

that doesn't mean, oh, they're so brave online. They're saying things just to get you. I mean, people genuinely didn't like me. And I was always, always good with that. If you have time, ask me the question about in line at a Leaf game buying popcorn. All right. Tell me the story, Michael,

about being in line at a Leaf game buying popcorn. Okay. So we'll do that right now then. Yeah. And if I talk long enough, we'll get to the point where you'll never get to read the kind one. That's the other move. Yeah, that is, and that's my move.

I mean, I'm not going to sing, but I have an ability to shift the directions of the interview, sometimes without even the interviewer. Yeah, but you're on Toronto, Mike, this isn't some amateur hour here, I don't forget, and will get to uh these comments i've received about you but tell me that story about being in line because i'll get that one and then uh i have another question then i have something nice to read to you okay okay so i as i said i always always

believed and i think because i did take um criticism or insults or like right away from the first day that I was on TV, there were people that didn't like me. Whereas no one, I bet you on the first day of TSN, no one said, oh God, I hate that John Wells. No one said, God, I hate that Jim Van Horn or that Jerry Lovell. But they went, you're damn right. I hate that Lansbury. God, I'm so sick of them. Meanwhile, TSN's only been on for two hours. How sick of them could you be? So I, as I said, I kind of always looked for that because I thought it was always a really good time to prove something and to prove to people that I can be the guy that challenges the guest. I can be the guy who throws out a flippant remark to a guest because I can take it, right? Like I can dish it, but I can take it. And I would say in this business, there is a lot more people who can dish it, but can't take it than there are what I just described about myself. So I look to prove that. So here I am at line at a Leaf game, going for popcorn between periods. And I'm standing there

like this. And I mean, you would know me in this context, but I am literally the friendliest person you're ever going to meet. Say hi to everyone, be kind to everyone, which is ironic given the image that I've carried. But I look beside me and there's a guy staring at me and I go, hey, how you doing? He goes like this. So I say, what's up? He goes, I know who you are. I go, oh, okay. Michael Landsberg. What's your name? He goes, I don't like you. So I said to him, I said, dude, I got to ask you a question. Are you saying that just to be a dick or do you genuinely not like me? He said, I genuinely don't like you. So I said, well, I totally respect that. What do you mean?

I go like, who am I to say? Like, I have opinions about people. There's no such thing as a wrong opinion. It's your opinion. How could I say you're wrong? This is how you see me. Just like when I watch television, I got opinions. I watch someone and go, God, I hate that guy. No one's going to convince me that I'm wrong. So he goes, you're not mad. I go mad. No,

I respect the fact that you had the guts to say it. He goes like this. Oh God, I was being such a dick. Oh, I'm so sorry, man. And I thought that is the lesson. The lesson is that if you respect people, even if they're disrespecting you in the end, they will respect you or at the very least, you will have a great time doing it. And I kind of think that that one moment or that one conversation kind of sums up me in a lot of ways. or that one conversation kind of sums up me in a lot of ways. Do you realize, now that was an example of sort of that side of the spectrum there, but do you realize the positive impact that you've had on colleagues and listeners over the past 37 years?

Do I realize? I mean, I don't think... Do you acknowledge that most people who have crossed your path, like you mentioned there, have nothing but extremely positive things to say about you and their experience with you? Yes. Crossing my paths. Yes. You know, cause I, I used to say it like, you hear stories about yourself publicly, right? When, when you do this. And some guy would say,

oh yeah, I met Lance for a good couple of years ago. He's rude to me, basically just shooed me away. And I think they said that to, to Corey and Corey said, my dad has never been rude to anybody in his entire life. I think it's unlikely that that story is true. So would I anticipate that people that I work with or bumped into or who say interned on off the record over the years would say I was a good guy? Yeah, I would say 100%. So that was probably the best part about fraud. It was just hearing from people and hearing that they think that I brought something to their life, which as human beings, what else can we do more than that? Well, let's hear from a few of these people.

So I'm going to start with Tara Sloan because she rocks hard and she's a very good broadcaster as well. We all know Tara. Michael, this is her speaking. Michael is the reason I am in television today. Put me on off the Record 25 times and had me cover the NHL awards as rock singer slash hockey fan, then helped me make my demo reel when I made the transition from music to television. I will forever be grateful. nice that's great i mean the 25 times on off the record i i would deflect that and say i mean i said this to somebody yesterday who was saying oh you know thanks for putting me on the show those times i go well we didn't put you on the show to be nice maybe it was nice for you and

it looked like we were being nice but no one has has a talk show. Yeah, she was great. She was good. She was feisty. She was everything that we look for in a guest. And I really liked her too. I just thought that she was really smart and that she had a sort of a dark edge to her, which I thought was really a good thing in television and personally. So yeah, I mean, that's all true. And was I nice to her? Yeah. Was she nice to me? Absolutely.

And am I proud of her now? Are you proud of her? I really am. She's done great. She's, she's, she found her niche. I mean, she was a successful performer. She, she had a group called joy drop and that's how she came to us through her music label. And, uh, you know, since then, uh, we've been

buds. Yeah, no, she's awesome. In fact, originally when I was cherry picking a few of these to read to you, uh, not that you haven't read them already, but I want listeners to hear them. Actually, I stopped listening. I honestly, I stopped reading them. I said, okay, so this will be news to you. Yeah. I said to my, well, I read the first probably like two thirds. And then it's like, oh God, I kind of feel like I owe it to people to die so they can use this as my eulogy. That's it, my friend. It's like you got to attend your own funeral here. Yeah.

Which is kind of amazing. Kind of amazing. And unique too, because as far as I know, you're not going anywhere. You look fantastic. You're not here to tell me that you've got X days left here. You're still going strong. Okay, so originally I was going to cherry pick

FOTMs, Friends of Toronto Mike, like yourself. In fact, I'm going to sort of hijack my own statement here to say that if anyone wants to hear Michael Landsberg's first appearance on Toronto Mike, where we cover like the A to Z of your bio, I think now that we've heard you're stepping down after 37 years, it's interesting to listen back to episode 657. That was recorded just last June, June 2020. And we went through everything, your work as a mental health advocate, Sick Not Weak initiative. We talked about you

hosting Off The Record and moving to mornings at 10.50. So it's all there. It was an hour and 47 minutes. And then because I wanted more Landsberg in my life, I learned about that early history that you had with FOTM Steve Pakin, who has become quite a good friend. And I reunited you guys on Toronto Mike. That was episode 668. So that was only a couple of weeks later because you guys, of course, 43 years ago, you guys were working together at CIUT and Willow Downs Cable 10. So there's a good hour of Landsberg and Pake in there.

This is for listeners who want to hear more of you on Toronto Mike. But here, let me read a comment from someone who's not an FOTM yet. And if Jennifer Hedger is listening to me right now, I would love to have you on Toronto Mike to make sure that you- Hey, hey, hey, don't use my name to leverage your guests.

You are mowing my lawn, man. That is forbidden between hosts. Go ahead. What are you going to do? You're on Zoom. You can't reach out and grab me and punch me and rough me up. No, I can't. Here, this is Jennifer Hedger's words here.

This is the guy that had me on Off the Record 21 years ago and encouraged me to push for an audition at TSN. Also the guy who texts me every few weeks to check in on my mental health. One of the very best people I know. That's lovely. And I would, I mean, this is kind of a meaningless compliment for her because when someone says something nice about you, whatever nice you say about them, it kind of feels like an obligation, right?

Oh, Hedge is great. She's awesome. I love Hedge though. And that is true. But again, you know, like there was two dimensions to me pushing for her to get an audition. The one was that I just, I thought she was great. She deserved it.

You know, it wasn't like my first loyalty at that point was to her because I didn't know her that well. It was just this, oh my gosh, this person can broadcast, has a passion for sports and a knowledge for sports. And just a presence on camera that I thought TSN needed. And I went to, I guess it was Keith Petley and said, hey, you know, you should audition this woman, Jennifer Hedger.

And he did. And that was 21 years ago. She has gotten absolutely nothing in her life that was given to her that she didn't deserve. She like right away. I think she changed broadcasting in a lot of ways in this country. I think she opened doors for women. The perception that men had was always women can't talk sports like women, like men talk sports. You know, they can they can read the scores. But Hedger, I think, showed that there's tons of people, or at least one person, who is a woman who could speak about sports in a way that was exactly how a man would imagine

someone should speak about sports. And I guess she came on your radar from the lofters, as I recall. That is true. She was a guest. We started putting people on from the lofters. And I think she was like the fourth and the first three, you know, we're kind of like, well, okay. You know, like, like a lot of guests where you roll the dice. I mean, you need four guests a day back in those days on OTR. That's 20 guests a week. You know, you'll, you'll, you know, like you'll search far and wide. It's funny when we started, when we started radio with Carlo first up, he said to me, yeah, you know what? I never got on TSN really pisses me off. I said, Carlo, do you think we didn't want to put you on? Would you look at some of the names of the people

that we put on? You'll never hear of them. You never heard of them. We basically one time, one of our guest bookers booked the waitress that was serving him at the Golden Griddle because I because I don't know why he did it technically. So I said to Carlo, we would have put you on. But, you know, teams like the Maple Leafs, they protect their players from from shows like Off the Record. teams like the Maple Leafs, they protect their players from shows like Off the Record. Right, because you never know what somebody's going to say. Paul Hunter spent many decades at the Toronto Star, and him and Mary Ormsby actually were in my backyard for their exit interview just last summer. So I'll read what Paul Hunter wrote.

He said, Beyond the exemplary work Michael Landsberg did as an advocate for mental health, I really enjoyed him on the air. Thought he always asked incisive questions and had an excellent interviewing style. So that's high praise from Paul Hunter, who would know what he's talking about. Yeah, although I think from the standpoint that using the term he knows what he's talking about. He does from a professional sense, obviously. Right.

But I think everybody knows what they like and what they don't like. And that everybody actually knows what they're talking about. That was my point with dude beside me in line. When he gave me a look and said, I know you it's like, okay, well, as a viewer, he knows what he's talking about, but you know, I, I love that comment because when you're talking about professional skills now, there's a few things that I thought, well, you know, that would have been top of my list. my feet and therefore being able to react to questions or give questions that are important for the moment. That doesn't mean that I think I'm great at it. That just means that it's my best attribute, which might not be that good. But, you know, I always thought that my greatest gift was the fact that my brain most of the time seemed to be working faster than the guests.

And therefore I could ask questions that engaged them and be working faster than the guests. And therefore I could, I could ask questions that engage them and interested them and piss them off. And, you know, the whole pissed off thing is, is, is weird. This country still doesn't accept hard questions. It's still Mike, it's still it's still taboo. And people don't say that to you on the air, but they just don't come back. You know, even on first up, I did a couple of interviews and I was like, well, that guy's not coming back. And it's like, well, what did I do that, that we, I mean, we're not going to apologize for that. I

asked, I asked a question, you work for the listener, you work for the viewer. If there's a question that needs to be asked, ask it but it seems like you know to some extent um i have uh um i guess i have pissed people off enough that they are hesitant to come on a show that i'm hosting interesting uh i'm going to read a comment here from dan dunleavy who's uh carved out a very nice career for himself in Buffalo. You are, this is to you, Michael, not to me, Mike, who, of course, you told me that's the name of the guy who fixes your car. That's why you're Michael and you're not Mike.

But please, I digress here. Okay. Dan Dunleavy. Here I am trampling over this sweet moment. Dan Dunleavy says, you are a leader, a voice. Yes, it started as a sports media voice and face, the network TSN, the show. Who didn't want to be on your show? And now who doesn't want to be with you as you share your truth and message?

Sick not weak. Thanks, Michael. I'm with you. I didn't see that. I would ask, I mean, first of all, that beautiful comment. I mean, who's not going to feel feel good about that? I would say the last line was, I'm with you, which kind of implies to me that he has a mental health battle that he's talking about. And it is just, you know, the one thing that I have learned, which is undeniable, and that is that sharing of mental health battles, when you share them in a strong way, where you don't look like you're ashamed, you know, where you're going, oh, God, Mike, you know, I got this thing inside me. And I don't know, some days I wake up and I shouldn't be like this because I got a great life. I mean, that's weak. But if you come and, you know, on

whatever platform you're given and you say, hey, I got this illness called depression and it sucks. And you know what? There's times when I can't be me. There's times when everything I do is an act. There's times when I wake up in the morning and I think I'm only getting out of bed so I can get back in bed tonight. There's times that that happens. And you and I think I'm only getting out of bed so I can get back in bed tonight. There's times that that happens. And you know what? I'm not ashamed. I'm not embarrassed and I'm not weak.

That gets other people to come out and say me too. And the me too for them can be extremely important and powerful. Jay on right. Very short but sweet message. He basically writes he has always been the nicest and most supportive guy. I love that. You know, I, Jay Onright, this is, see, I got a story for everything. When you've done as many shows as I've done.

Which I love, by the way, because I love these tangent stories. That's where you get the real content. Okay, let's go to tangent number 2,'s where you get the real content. called it, but it was something like that. And he, he toured for the book and he was a guest on off the record. So after we finished, we're talking and he says, so, you know, I said, Hey, the book was great. I was lying. I never read the book, but you know, that wasn't really an insult to him. It was just a fact of life that, you know, a six minute interview, like it was not necessarily worth my time, which obviously is finite to read the book. So I go, oh, it was great. He goes, what'd you think? I go, of what? He goes, of what

I said about you. He goes, I go, okay, I got to admit, I didn't read the book. And he wrote in the book that I guess when he was at Ryerson, he reached out to me and said, you know, I need some advice. I need some help. I need some guidance. And I said, come on in. And one night doing sports desk, he came in and we talked. And I guess, I guess, you know,

seeing seeing it from the inside out, but also seeing it from the inside of my brain out gave him a look at the industry that I guess was important. Just to get the name of the book right, because FOTMJ on right would probably appreciate it. It's called Anchor Boy Stories from Sports and Life. So, OK, so one of the things that I boasted about before was the fact that I was authentic, not necessarily.

That doesn't mean that everyone was going to like me. It meant that I didn't care who didn't like me. I was not going to change who I am. And Jay Onright, I would say, has been totally genuine as well. You know, Jay is, and obviously a lot of people like him because he has survived, he's flourished. And I respect the fact that he he changed what was handed to him. OK, when when he and O'Toole started off on SportsCenter together, you know, this was this was the script for the show lineup intro or headlines intro opening on camera. Throw to the Blue Jays highlights. You know, this that was the show. Right. And he decided they decided,

no, we can do more than this. And I respect that because taking chances ultimately means that you could fail. And fear of failure, I think, is probably the thing that inhibits most people from being themselves. Now, I'm only going to read one more here because I could do this for hours. Literally, I have so many positive read one more here because I could do this for hours. Literally, I have so many positive comments about you on the day that you were announced your departure from TSN after 37 years. But I will say that, so this is 895, episode 895. So I've talked to quite a few people in your industry.

So I get the stories about who helped out. And you come up often as somebody who, if somebody reached out for help or advice, you were there. And I am actually going to shout out one more person who is at TSN, who is the other person that comes up all the time. Like when people, and maybe people, this, this gentleman's older than you. So it might pick up the generation, you know, your generation, but I just want to shout out because I'm watching a lot of Olympics and I'm watching these Olympics and I'm enjoying these Olympics and I'm missing Brian Williams. So I just want to send some love to Brian Williams, who was the voice of my Olympics growing up and the best in class,

as they say. And the stories I get from people like yourself who maybe they reached out to Brian and just asked for advice and Brian would give them a phone call and give them a lot of time with sincere advice and authenticity. So it sounds like you're cut from the same cloth. You're a couple of good citizens who help out those who are trying to make a move in your industry. Yeah, you know, it's pretty sad how low the bar is set sometimes where you go, where you praise someone for being a decent person. Right. It's like the expectation is you'll be a dick. And if you're not a dick, people say like, those are the only

two options. Dick, not a dick. I'm not a dick. Brian Williams is not a dick. And I think that, I agree with you, by the way, on the whole Olympics thing. You know, Brian was, and you can't You know, Brian was, and you can't necessarily appreciate Brian for what he could do unless you were in the industry and knew what was going on. The man could ad lib a two-hour show without a stumble, without a thought that he probably wanted to take back. The man was a genius at that. He probably wanted to take back. The man was a genius at that. And, you know, growing up, I mean, he's not that much older than me, but I looked at him. I listened to him when he was on CFRB. You know, I kind of I kind of I kind of wanted to be him from the standpoint that I wanted to be able to talk like he talked, not with the same voice. Folks, I was talking to Michael Landsberg. I looked at him. I said, Michael, I don't believe many people think Off the Record is going to succeed, but I'm telling you it will. That's a true story. First of all, he's a lovely man. I love the fact that he may have done, Mike, he may have done 5,000 hours of Olympic coverage

and never made a mistake. He's remarkable, but so are you. And this is the final comment I'll read from an FOTM. This is from James Duthie, himself a lovely gentleman, by the way. Good boy. James writes, when people ask, what's Landsberg like?

They always seem disappointed when I say he's a really nice guy. They like the adversarial character he chose to play when needed on Off the Record and radio. A TSN legend who has done a ton of good in the world. Wish you the best, Michael.

Nice. Yeah, James, James is, a ton of good in the world. Wish you the best, Michael. Nice. Yeah, James, James, James is, you called him a lovely guy. James is a very sort of, he has a way about him, which is disarming because he has, I don't, I don't know, you end up picking up on his speech pattern, which is, you know, different than mine, where, you know, he's kind of laid back. And especially when you hear him on radio, you notice it. Hello, Michael. And I mean, James is a genius at what he does. I like what he said. But I've heard that a million times. This was this honestly, Mike, this was classic off the record. I'm trying to think of someone who would have come back a second time who you would recognize their names because typically it was. Oh, my God. When people watch the show, they called me and they said, so what's Landsberg like? And I said, this is what they said. He's a really good guy. No, come on. No, no, he's not a good guy. That guy's so arrogant. He thinks he knows everything. No, he was really nice to me. You know, he took me aside and said

he's got my back and he knew that I was nervous or whatever. That happened every single time. Every time I'm writing something right now with a woman named Joanne O'Sullivan, and she's a comedian, and she was on Off the Record a handful of times, half dozen times. And I asked her last week, I said, I never asked you this question, but when people, when you were on the first time, what did people say? She goes, oh my God, they wanted me to hate you. They were so disappointed. And that makes me kind of smile that I was, I guess, able to, well, okay, here's the reason why. It's a little technical, Mike, so I don't know if you're going to understand this. It has to do with dimensions. I'm kidding with the technical part, but we are in person, we're three-dimensional, obviously. You see everything that a person presents to you, but television for some reason

only presents 90% of it. The little shades of gray that say, he's not taking himself seriously, or he's not being mean, he's got a tongue in cheek there. Or just those little cues that we send off when we're face to face or having a conversation on the street, you don't get on television. And I think that in a lot of ways is the reason why there's a difference in how people saw me off camera rather than on camera. Any regrets about that? Because if your persona on air is adversarial, as James Duthie says, that means many listeners right now are kind of learning that you're actually a sweetheart. Like any regret that you just weren't the sweetheart

you are in person on the mic? No, because I boasted before about being genuine, right? And I think that, I mean, I didn't consciously ever, ever, like not one time think to myself, you know, okay, Michael, you got to get, you got to get in character, you know, now it's off the record with Michael Landsberg brought to you by the cake steak house and bar for great steaks. Good friends. See you tonight. Time to really pump yourself up. No, it was, it was, it was exactly.

I reacted in exactly how I wanted to react throughout almost every show. And that's just how it came across. And I was good with it and still am good with it. And that's, you know, I think in a lot of ways explains why, you know, I was kind of in this much more narrow box that the only time, Mike, the only time in my career that I can think of, I can put my hands down now, right? Where somebody said, you know what, let's give Landsberg a slot that, you know, people will really see him was 2010 Vancouver Whistler Olympics. Keith Pelley, who, who actually was his off the record was his idea. We grew up in television together. I got a lot of stories,

but that he, he came to me before off the record, like when I was doing sports desk and he said, do you want to do something else? And I went, yeah, you know, and he said, what? And I said, do you want to do something else? And I went, yeah. And he said, what? And I said, I just want to be able to, instead of being myself over a show like Sports Desk 20% of the time, because the rest is just, it's kind of reporting news. You got business you got to do. I want to do something that's me where it's like, love him or hate him, this is him. And if you want to hate him and enough people hate him, we're going to cancel his show. He said, OK. And then he came back to me and said, I want to do a talk show. And that's what eventually evolved into Off the Record. And there's obviously how we got from there to the start of the first show, which, by the way,

they said they wanted a different show. Right. You know, something a little bit more on the edge. So I thought I'll give him something more on the edge. The first show, September 8th, 1997, Ted Nolan is a guest on the show. He's just been fired by the Buffalo Sabres after being named coach of the year. My first question, Ted, you were coach of the year. You got fired. You don't have a job. Are you pissed? What? I'm sorry. Sorry, guys, to the crew. I got to, they asked me to go to the control room. I go to the control room. I go to the control room. Keith Pelley and Rick Bracer there. They go, you can't say pissed. What are you doing? So I said, well, you wanted, you know, something a little edgier. Right.

I mean, that's only a little edgier. It's not like I you know, it's not like I said, well, I don't. Do you swear on your show here? Yeah, you can swear. Yeah. It's not like seriously where I said, oh, Ted Nolan, those motherfuckers, they fired you, man. Like pissed. They said, can't say it. So I decided, and this is kind of my non-confrontational way. I could have, I could have said, nope, not going back and changing it, but I went back and changed it. And it was, you know, Ted Nolan, are you mad? you know, Ted Nolan, are you mad? And then after the show was over, when we were huddling around without management, it was like, wait one month, and I'm going to say pissed every day for a week. So how did I get into that story? That was, oh, yeah. So Keith Pelley, before the Olympics, we're all waiting to see the Olympic assignments, what would people get to do? And I kind of didn't fit necessarily anywhere. Like where I wasn't a hockey host. I was this like talk show host,

which obviously wasn't going to exist during the Olympics. So I'm walking by, going for vacation. Christmas, this, I guess would have been, must have been 2000, was it 2009? That seems late to have learned that, but let's go with 2009. Keith and Rick Chisholm, who was also my boss, who also I adored, they go, hey, Michael, come in here. Yeah, we'd like to know if, do you want to host from Whistler on CTV? I go, see what? See what? like like like channel eight on my television yeah ctv like lloyd robertson ctv

yeah yeah i go you're fucking right i do all right oh my gosh and that was because that was like that was mainstream right that was uh and that was the by far the greatest professional experience of my life by far standing on a stage at the Olympics. I was going to ask you, your career highlight at TSN is you after 37 years. And this is it. Oh, for sure. Without a doubt. Because I got this stage and because I was really proud of myself that I didn't change.

I did things that were unpredictable. I, I got a pair of skis, skied down. It was really warm and it was affecting ski conditions on the course. So I skied down, camera was at the bottom and I said, you know, the temperature, if it gets past a certain thing, you, you know, they got to really worry about how it's going to change the course. And I said, I happen to have a thermometer here. And it was down my pants in the front. And I pulled it out and I held it up and I showed people what it was. And I mean, I didn't think it was that risque. But afterwards, Rick Chisholm called me, Michael, don't do that again. But, you know, I had fun with it. And that to me was always the marker for whether I had done a good job, because if I didn't have fun, I didn't think anybody else did.

All right, here's the million dollar question here. So you're departing TSN after 37 years. By the way, what a run. Congratulations. That's amazing. But what's next for Michael Landsberg? What's the next chapter going to look like? Well, given how I talked about how my reason to want to move on was not dissatisfaction with what I was doing.

It was that I wanted to do something different. I wanted to try and challenge myself. I think the fear of failure is one of the most important things that we can feel when we approach a job or an assignment. And regardless of how much you care and whether you're a true professional or not, it's impossible to bring that same fear of failure to show number 2,000 that you brought for show number one. Eventually, you start to let down your guard. So I'm looking for that next assignment, if you will, not really the right word, where I'll have this fear of failure, where I'll be going, oh, man, I got to be at my best. Can I

do this? You know, you know, I got to work my hardest. I've got to, you know, I've got to really try to find a way to pull this off because that's what I enjoy the most. That will be in broadcasting still, conventional somehow broadcasting. But in the short term, I'm writing something for SickNut Week, an animated series that is going to be the first season, optimistically, right, is going to be giving people advice and tips on going back to work, the anxiety that they're feeling. Like so many people go, oh my God, I'm so anxious about going back to work, which is something I never even thought of, right? But we have this thing, you know, post-pandemic return to work anxiety disorder. I made that up when I was writing

this thing. And it's a big thing. And this thing is all about, and where I'll take that is way more exciting than the first because that that topic is not, you know, it's important, but it's not the same kind of importance as depression and where depression can lead. And it's all about bringing people in by entertaining them and doing something that they go, wow, that was kind of fun. And they go, I think I just, like, I learned more about, you know, about depression and what it feels like. And therefore I learned more about myself. So that's what I'm doing now every day. You know, I woke up this morning for a guy who woke up at 4.30 for a long time. I woke up at 6.30, came downstairs, made coffee, best thing,

and sat down on a couch with my laptop and continued to work on it. And it's like, am I good enough to write something like that? That's kind of how I look at it. Am I good enough to do this? And the fear of not being good enough to do a good job is what drives me

to write, rewrite, rewrite, and write, and then rewrite. Honestly, I look forward to reading and watching your next chapter as it evolves. I'm sure there's a ton of work to do at Sick Not Weak. And now you used the word, the F word at the beginning of the show. You said freedom.

Now you have the freedom to focus on it. And and honestly michael i wish you nothing but the best i hope i hope to get you back on to talk more as things uh evolve okay let's uh let's let's talk about that i cannot do tomorrow but i am available every day after that so you'll just have to try to fit me into your plans or you'll have to try to fit into my schedule. So, you know, it's it is it is weird. I'm sure you have a lot of guests that say this, that when you are the interviewer in ninety nine point nine nine percent of the the things that you do, it's quite unusual to be the guest, You know, that point zero zero one percent, kind of like the percentage of people that get that get critically ill if they're vaccinated. Right. Well, I have a I have CBC's Tom Harrington in the backyard at 2 p.m. today, and that was his comment yesterday.

He's used he asks the questions. He's the interviewer. And you almost sense there's this mild anxiety about being on the other side of the uh yeah i had just so you know i mean i i hope you're not insulted by this but not only did i not have anxiety about this i i no no it's just you know it's like i love it bring it on you know i i have challenged people lots of times so one of the other things i'll be doing is i'll be going around speaking eventually when we can get out you can be in front of an audience. But in the last four months, I've done tons of virtual talks where whether it's corporate, whether it's charity, you know, where you go for an hour and people ask questions. And in a lot of ways, it's a better format for for mental health talk because

people are anonymous. You know, I'll just throw this out. I know you got to go. God knows. I'm just going back to the couch to continue, right? But if you, where was I going with that? You were going to tell me what a great job I'm doing on Toronto Mic'd and how there's problems. I wanted to say that, you know, you have a uniquely, disarmingly kind way to do your job. And that gets people to go, yeah, you know, he's a nice guy. And he, you know, contrary to the guy that you're interviewing, you don't interrupt, right?

You know, and I'm a big believer of if you're not getting the answer you like, especially in a narrower format, like off the record where the show was 23 minutes long with commercials. Right. So if someone's going on and going, no, I asked you a question. You're not answering the question, which is like the NHL general manager specialty. Right. You ask a question and it's a hard question for them to answer, like a Zach Hyman question. And before you know it, they're talking about how they think they've really strengthened the team down the middle. And you go, the hell? I didn't ask anything. Did I mention middle? Did I mention center? So I'm a believer that, you know, you've got to cut them off. And if they think you're rude, then too damn bad.

I'm thinking of our mutual friend, Steve Pakin. His favorite musician of all time is the chairman of the board, Frank Sinatra. And what I'm going to do is, as I play us off here, I'm going to play Frank Sinatra singing Paul Anka's My Way. I think it's an appropriate tune to celebrate your 37 years. And I'll just close with two more words for you, Michael. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. And I just, I'm going to try to say this without being overly emotional. Steve Paikin is lame. Oh my gosh, what guy, except Frank Sinatra is my favorite singer. Oh my God, That guy's been married twice. I can't believe he found two women to marry him with that kind of lame attitude.

Frank Sinatra, but go ahead. I face the final curtain, my friend. I'll say it clear. I'll state my case, of which I'm certain. I've lived a life that's full. I traveled each and every highway And more, much more than this I did it my way Regrets

I've had a few But then again Too few to mention I did what I had to do Saw it through Without exemption to do Saw it through without exemption

I planned each charted course each careful step along the byway And more much more than this I did it my way

Yes, there were times I'm sure you knew When I fit off More than I could chew But through it all, when there was doubt I ate it up and spit it out I faced it all and I stood tall, and did it my way. my share of losing and now as tears subside

I find it all so amusing to think I did all that and may I say not in a shy way, oh no, oh no, not me, I did it my way. For what is a man What has he got If not himself Then he has not To say the things

He truly feels And not the words of one who kneels The record shows I took the blows And did was my way. And that brings us to the end of our 895th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Michael is at Hey Landsberg.

Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. McKay's CEO Forums, they're at McKay's CEO Forums. They're at McKay's CEO Forums. I urge you to subscribe and listen to the CEO Edge podcast. Fireside chats with inspiring CEOs and thought leaders. Palma Pasta's at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at StickerU. Ridley Funeral Home, they're at RidleyFH. And Mimico Mike, he's not on Twitter, he's on Instagram, at MajeskiGroupHomes. See you all next week. Read Andrew Miller and wander around

And drink some Guin goodness from a tin Cause my UI check has just come in Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine Yeah, the wind is cold, but the snow, snow warms me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rose and green.

Well, you've been under my skin for more than eight years. It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears. And I don't know what the future can hold or will do for me and you. But I'm a much better man for having known you. Oh, you know that's true because

everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow won't stay today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and gray. Everything is rosy and green Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who Yeah, I wonder who

Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of green Cause I know that's true. Yes, I do. I know it's true. Yeah. I know it's true. How about you?

While they're picking up trash and they're putting down ropes. And they're brokering stocks to class them all. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started. Everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine. And it won't go away, because everything is rosy and gray.